This thread is a continuing thought that sprung from the Tammy Faye's farewell thread in the Church Lady's corner.
Here is the case of a woman, regardless of her past actions, who honestly believes she has served her god to the best of her abilities during her life. We all know of countless other people who have served god, loved god, professed god, and lived their life according to their understanding of god's wishes. Yet when it comes time when they need god, in this case for healing, all they get from their deity is the "middle finger" so to speak.
From my own personal observations, and ongoing examples such as the one I cited from the Church Lady's corner, I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
Any thoughts? :devil29:
There is a mystery about the concept of God that none of us will ever understand. I don't know the answers you are looking for. None of us do and if we say we know....well, faith is a strange concept, too.
i got lots of thoughts in that area, but you seem to subscribe to this one:
"You know when you wish for something you want really bad? God is the one that ignores you." - Steve Buscemi in "The Island"
however, all of that assumes that what you're going through is a "bad thing", or a "good thing" when seen through the eyes of god.
(keep 'em coming, oh king of borg!)
I watched my Dad die of lung cancer, and you are right about that. That last year was horrible. But through it all I saw in my Dad a tremendous strength and at the very end a sense of peace that inspires me to this day. And he never, never through all of that, faltered in his faith.
Quote from: Bo D on May 09, 2007, 09:39:02 PM
There is a mystery about the concept of God that none of us will ever understand. I don't know the answers you are looking for. None of us do and if we say we know....well, faith is a strange concept, too.
I agree about the mystery of the concept. My point is that there is extraordinary evidence that god, if he exists at all, has gone along his merry way and is no longer concerned with the whole "human" business. So why the ongoing dependence on the concept?
Not to mention that other thought, "God always answers your prayers, sometimes, he just says No."
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:45:31 PM
I agree about the mystery of the concept. My point is that there is extraordinary evidence that god, if he exists at all, has gone along his merry way and is no longer concerned with the whole "human" business. So why the ongoing dependence on the concept?
And that's part of the mystery after all, isn't it? I don't know if I subscribe to a "conventional" view of God as taught by organized religion. So I don't have a canned answer. But I'm still working on it.
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:45:31 PM
So why the ongoing dependence on the concept?
this is almost a thread in and of itself...
the short answer: it's not the dependance on the concept, so much as the sharing of the concept and exclusion of those not associated with it. you hardly ever hear of anyone belonging to a church of "one".
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 09:46:05 PM
Not to mention that other thought, "God always answers your prayers, sometimes, he just says No."
Ah, you forgot that one little catch all used by all of those who depend on some deity for guidance. From what I recall from growing up, I was told that "god" always answers prayers. His answer is either yes, no, or in case neither of those fit your particular circumstance, then his answer must have been wait. Given those 3 possibilities, the gullible ones who believe in such, are left with the idea that god, in his infinite goodness and knowledge of what's best for them, has acted in their best interest. This conclusion is drawn regardless of a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Quote from: awol on May 09, 2007, 09:44:16 PM
i got lots of thoughts in that area, but you seem to subscribe to this one:
"You know when you wish for something you want really bad? God is the one that ignores you." - Steve Buscemi in "The Island"
however, all of that assumes that what you're going through is a "bad thing", or a "good thing" when seen through the eyes of god.
And it also assumes that the person, who expects something of their god, is going to draw the only conclusion that they can possibly draw. That being that an omniscient god is going to do what's best for them regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Quote from: awol on May 09, 2007, 09:44:16 PM
(keep 'em coming, oh king of borg!)
:biggrin:
hmmm...I actually was never taught that he sometimes says wait. it was either, yes or no. And since I rarely ask for anything, in prayer, I just believe whatever happens is just plain meant to be.
Quote from: awol on May 09, 2007, 09:49:56 PM
this is almost a thread in and of itself...
the short answer: it's not the dependance on the concept, so much as the sharing of the concept and exclusion of those not associated with it. you hardly ever hear of anyone belonging to a church of "one".
Maybe not. But what's wrong with that? I sometimes feel that my beliefs are unique. And because I haven't formulated them yet, I find it too dificult to share them with others.
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 09:54:07 PM
hmmm...I actually was never taught that he sometimes says wait. it was either, yes or no. And since I rarely ask for anything, in prayer, I just believe whatever happens is just plain meant to be.
And I would suggest that there's a big difference in believing something is meant to be (as in a natural sequence of events), as opposed to believing that there's some mystical god tweaking the switches of your life to fit them to some obviously flawed divine plan.
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:53:42 PM
And it also assumes that the person, who expects something of their god, is going to draw the only conclusion that they can possibly draw. That being that an omniscient god is going to do what's best for them regardless of evidence to the contrary.
:biggrin:
But what if we are wrong to expect anything of God? What if He simply created everything and then just sat back and watched?
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:59:02 PM
And I would suggest that there's a big difference in believing something is meant to be (as in a natural sequence of events), as opposed to believing that there's some mystical god tweaking the switches of your life to fit them to some obviously flawed divine plan.
And I still believe that there is a Creator of some kind, that most of us refer to as God. I believe is a Celestial Being, and I'll stop there before I get accused of blasphemy. LOL
We are in a petrie dish, and God is a Scientist. Sometimes he introduces something into the dish, we call these miracles, or (what's that phrase...) oh Acts of God.
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 10:02:05 PM
And I still believe that there is a Creator of some kind, that most of us refer to as God. I believe is a Celestial Being, and I'll stop there before I get accused of blasphemy. LOL
Even if one was to go with the supposition that there is indeed a "creator" of the universe, it is a far stretch that the "creator" is the god of the bible. The evidence just doesn't stack up that way.
As to blasphemy, I'll take the lumps for you, for I'm a lot further down that road than you are. :biggrin:
Well it's just something that I've entertained in my thoughts on occasion, that the world here was populated with human beings, actually Aliens. That there really are Alien civilizations out there that are much more advanced than us, that have been for thousands of years. Who populated this planet as an experiment in a haphazardly controlled environment to see how we would evolve. I have lot's of Science Fiction thoughts on this. This would give us a creator of OUR universe, not necessarily THE universe. And the God that we 'came' from, is long dead, but constantly replaced by his colleagues, in the continued study of Man on Earth.
Quote from: Bo D on May 09, 2007, 09:59:38 PM
But what if we are wrong to expect anything of God?
I agree. I don't expect anything at all of any god. Unfortunately, many do, and due to their desire to believe in him, they'll construe any possible outcome of any given situation, as being attributable to a god, regardless of whether or not the situation turned out well for them.
Quote from: Bo D on May 09, 2007, 09:59:38 PM
What if He simply created everything and then just sat back and watched?
Perhaps we think along similar lines. From my post above:
Quote from: Locutus
My point is that there is extraordinary evidence that god, if he exists at all, has gone along his merry way and is no longer concerned with the whole "human" business.
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 10:11:44 PM
Well it's just something that I've entertained in my thoughts on occasion, that the world here was populated with human beings, actually Aliens. That there really are Alien civilizations out there that are much more advanced than us, that have been for thousands of years. Who populated this planet as an experiment in a haphazardly controlled environment to see how we would evolve. I have lot's of Science Fiction thoughts on this. This would give us a creator of OUR universe, not necessarily THE universe. And the God that we 'came' from, is long dead, but constantly replaced by his colleagues, in the continued study of Man on Earth.
BLASPHEMY!! :razz: :biggrin: :biggrin:
I can't wait until some of the X-tians sink their teeth into that one. Or the Muslims either for that matter.
Now where's Henry Hawk? :devil29: :devil29:
But it follows so much of what was in the Old Testament, doesn't it? A piece of Adam was taken and behold, there is a woman. That sounds like cloning, even though the resulting clone was of a different gender. How could that happen if all the genes are male? Can't explain that, remember, the Aliens are much more advanced than we are. And later on down the road, some of the things that are in the bible, the burning bush for one, a halogram (sp), what about the wheel in the sky that turns within another wheel? a spaceship. The tower of bable (sp)? A communications tower with a scrambled signal. Etc.
Who says I believe any of this? I'm just a fan of Science Fiction.
You've got to remember that drugs grew wild at that point in history and weren't illegal. :biggrin:
LOL drugs still grow wild, and it's a shame that anything natural can be illegal.
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:20:54 PM
god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
Any thoughts? :devil29:
but, you don't insult people do ya?... ;)....misspell your name, and dang fire, watch out, Christians are being pricks...... :no:
as far as waiting for me to "bite" into Pari's response....It makes as much sense as your eveloution crap does.... :biggrin:...at least her's makes more sence... :biggrin:....and she ADMITS it's "science fiction".....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 09, 2007, 10:53:29 PM
but, you don't insult people do ya?... ;)....misspell your name, and dang fire, watch out, Christians are being pricks...... :no:
Damn!! You do have a comprehension problem. Here's my original post again:
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:20:54 PM
....I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
Care to try again? Please point out where I said any Xtian, or them collectively, are being a prick(s). I'll also state again, it wasn't a simple misspelling. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 10:59:25 PM
Damn!! You do have a comprehension problem. Here's my original post again:
Care to try again? Please point out where I said any Xtian, or them collectively, are being a prick(s).
no, it is you that has a comprehension problem.........you don't get it....and I guess I can't explain it..........i'm through... :no:
You're through? I said "god" either sucks, or is being a prick, and yet you choose to twist my words to say that xtians are being pricks?
You're right, you are through. You can't explain it, and that's the problem. :wink:
well right now it's Science Fiction, what would we think if suddenly we had the data from the last 10,000 years showing how we have been scientifically manipulated all these years? :eek:
And for UFOlogists, wouldn't the abductions and animal mutilations finally have a logical place in history? Removed from the petrie dish, examined, altered and replaced. Sad to think that either way, by religion or some kind of Science, we are still just an experiment of one kind or another.
I'm thinking of a convesation I had with awol recently about old souls and I said that we are all old souls, that we have all been in existence since before man was placed on earth. Our energy (spirits) have always existed, and God just gave us a place to hold that energy in place. Okay, God, or Celestial Being, whatever. The human body is just a shell, with organic mechanisms. Who knows what or where the consciousness comes from. Even Science can't answer that yet. We are told that energy never dissipates, it merely changes form. And I'm getting to a point where I don't know where I'm heading here, so I will stop, right after I say: It's hard to believe in God, and that Jesus was his human offering, when there are so many possibilities/alternate theories. Having an open mind can be more sucky than someone else believing that God sucks.
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 11:04:29 PM
You're through? I said "god" either sucks, or is being a prick, and yet you choose to twist my words to say that xtians are being pricks?
You're right, you are through. You can't explain it, and that's the problem. :wink:
There is no problem, here pal... ;). :biggrin:...I didn't twist no words...you know exactly what you are saying and trying to do......
now I'm through....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 09, 2007, 11:13:25 PM
There is no problem, here pal... ;). :biggrin:...I didn't twist no words...
I beg to differ. Again, here are my original words on this thread:
Quote from: Locutus
...I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
Here, again, are your words:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 09, 2007, 10:53:29 PM
but, you don't insult people do ya?... ;)....misspell your name, and dang fire, watch out, Christians are being pricks...... :no:
It's in black and white Henry. Yes, you are through. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 11:18:43 PM
I beg to differ. Again, here are my original words on this thread:
Here, again, are your words:
It's in black and white Henry. Yes, you are through. :wink:
I'll be through when I say I'm through....locust... :biggrin:
you can say what you want....you are the one being a prick right now....you slam Christians all the time on here, in your nice little way...then you don't have the balls to stand up to what you said or what you mean....am I right?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 09, 2007, 11:28:39 PM
I'll be through when I say I'm through....locust... :biggrin:
you can say what you want....you are the one being a prick right now....you slam Christians all the time on here, in your nice little way...then you don't have the balls to stand up to what you said or what you mean....am I right?
No Henry, he's didn't slam Christians. He's talking about God letting down the people who believe in him.
Quote from: MsMojo on May 09, 2007, 11:30:41 PM
No Henry, he's didn't slam Christians. He's talking about God letting down the people who believe in him.
And that's what I understood too. So I just gave alternate Science Fiction theories on why that could be.
Quote from: MsMojo on May 09, 2007, 11:30:41 PM
No Henry, he's didn't slam Christians. He's talking about God letting down the people who believe in him.
whatever......he knows what he is doing....I expected more from him than others on here.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 09, 2007, 11:28:39 PM
I'll be through when I say I'm through....locust... :biggrin:
you can say what you want....you are the one being a prick right now....
Ah, and more name calling from the supposed Xtian when your belief system is challenged, and even further, when clear evidence of your comprehension problem is pointed out.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 09, 2007, 11:28:39 PM
you slam Christians all the time on here, in your nice little way...then you don't have the balls to stand up to what you said or what you mean....am I right?
< sigh > I'll stand up for what I said, and meant, yet again. Here is my post:
Quote from: Locutus
....I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
I'm waiting for you to address this original post, and not, as is typical of Xtians, take is as a personal affront.
Locutus, I'm going to take the high road here and apologies to you for my remarks...they were un-called for....I, let your responses (and others on here) about Christians, get the best of me.....starting with the x thing, and your remarks about God....they are your opinion, and I honestly, with all my heart do respect them....I totaly disagree, but, you are a classy person on this forum and have been ever since I met you.....I, have many excuses, but, I will keep them to myself......I DO take my Christianity very serious, and my love for God....I, take it personal sometimes, but, this IS a public forum, and I chose to be here......so, again, I apologize... :)
I don't mean to offend, but I do like to foster discussion of questions that are hard to deal with. If we can all discuss them, we'll all be better off.
Hopefully, I won't be kicked out of the Bar and Grille for Happy Hour this week. I'm having a bad week on the road, and I'll need one on Friday. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on May 10, 2007, 12:03:25 AM
I don't mean to offend, but I do like to foster discussion of questions that are hard to deal with. If we can all discuss them, we'll all be better off.
Hopefully, I won't be kicked out of the Bar and Grille for Happy Hour this week. I'm having a bad week on the road, and I'll need one on Friday. :yes:
You are always welcome at my bar....I think I will call it "Henry's First Baptist Bar & Grill".... :biggrin:....I'm having a rough week also....I'll be there at 4 o'clock sharp with the first round on me... ;)
did you watch nightline tonight?....the atheist vs Christian debate was highlighted...
Yes, I did. I didn't like the fact that 80 minutes worth of debate was condensed into less than 20 minutes of air time.
Although I do think that Cameron and his mentor put forth the intellectually bankrupt position of "intelligent design" as the crux of their argument. :razz:
Unfortunately, neither side was given enough time on the air to adequately express their views. They were reduced to a few snippets of both sides, commingled with commercials and the comments of the host. It was really a letdown given how much the show had been promoted as a great debate.
I was disappointed.
me too....I'm sure it will end up somewhere on video....I think Cameron will release it from his web-site.....
Is that Cameron's website or the other guy's?
Quote from: Locutus on May 10, 2007, 12:22:24 AM
Is that Cameron's website or the other guy's?
it is both of theirs....the way of the master
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/ (http://www.wayofthemaster.com/)
How did that damn link end up on my god sucks thread??? :razz: :razz: :biggrin:
LOL too funny.
Maybe God knows... ;)
If he knows that, then he'll also know that I still think he sucks. :wink: :yes:
I'm SURE He know's exactly what you think of Him..... ;) :biggrin:
I went to the website and found it amusing when Kirk says to reach the unsaved, you have to bypass the intellect and make the gospel simple. I also like it when he says people who believe in a loving God are guilty of idolatry because a loving God doesn't exist and therefore you have to create him/her.
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:45:31 PM
I agree about the mystery of the concept. My point is that there is extraordinary evidence that god, if he exists at all, has gone along his merry way and is no longer concerned with the whole "human" business. So why the ongoing dependence on the concept?
Quote from: Bo D on May 09, 2007, 09:48:42 PM
And that's part of the mystery after all, isn't it? I don't know if I subscribe to a "conventional" view of God as taught by organized religion. So I don't have a canned answer. But I'm still working on it.
Allow me to recommend an interesting read. While I may not ascribe to his conclusions, he identifies and addresses this subject.
"The Disappearance of God...a Divine Mystery" by Richard Elliot Friedman.
Quote from: awol on May 09, 2007, 09:49:56 PM
this is almost a thread in and of itself...
the short answer: it's not the dependance on the concept, so much as the sharing of the concept and exclusion of those not associated with it. you hardly ever hear of anyone belonging to a church of "one".
Give that man a see-gar! We see this in action, even beyond religion, every day. Exclusion/superiority appears to be innate in mankind. Some function of the primal brain or something bred into us over the millennia by the forces of civilization?
Quote from: Bo D on May 09, 2007, 09:59:38 PM
But what if we are wrong to expect anything of God? What if He simply created everything and then just sat back and watched?
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 10:02:05 PM
And I still believe that there is a Creator of some kind, that most of us refer to as God. I believe is a Celestial Being, and I'll stop there before I get accused of blasphemy. LOL
The concept of a 'creator' is a logical dead-end.
If one assumes
everything is 'created', then there
must be a 'creator', but then
what 'created' the 'creator.'
Quote
GREENSBURG, Kan. -- Church leaders on Sunday told more than 3,000 residents, volunteers and disaster workers gathered in this tornado-ravaged community they should not fear the future because God was with them.
....
Tim Henning, pastor of Peace Lutheran Church in Greensburg, likened the city's plight to that of Job in the Bible, whom God tested by taking away everything he loved but who kept his faith through it all: "We are like him, we lost everything," he said.
Henning reminded residents that God was still with them.
Link to story. (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ats-ap_top13may13,0,7292044.story?coll=sns-newsnation-headlines)
:rolleyes:
Apparently, some still haven't figured out that I'm right in my opening statement. As I stated previously, I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
Quote from: Locutus on May 13, 2007, 09:00:01 PM
Apparently, some still haven't figured out that I'm right in my opening statement. As I stated previously, I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
apparently you seek only affirmation in your assertions. so - yeah. god sucks.
Quote from: awol on May 13, 2007, 09:15:28 PM
apparently you seek only affirmation in your assertions. so - yeah. god sucks.
Your post would suggest that you have some evidence to show otherwise?
Quote from: Locutus on May 13, 2007, 09:16:41 PM
Your post would suggest that you have some evidence to show otherwise?
no, it doesn't. and no, i don't.
the "god" you subscribe to, quite frankly sucks.
Quote from: awol on May 13, 2007, 09:57:12 PM
no, it doesn't. and no, i don't.
the "god" you subscribe to, quite frankly sucks.
Really? What god would that be?
the god who is appathetic, incapable, or simply enjoys the suffering of "his chosen".
I think a compelling case can be made that all of those qualities can be ascribed to god, as he's defined by the masses. The daily headlines are replete with examples.
For the record, I subscribe to no god. I'm just pointing out obvious questions that should be asked of any god which is supposedly omnipotent.
If he/she's omnipotent, why would ANYONE expect him/her to answer the questions?
Quote from: Locutus on May 13, 2007, 10:14:56 PM
I think a compelling case can be made that all of those qualities can be ascribed to god, as he's defined by the masses...
yes. and i believe that is a mistake.
it is presumptuous to attribute human morality to god.
that said, perhaps cancer was the best possible outcome for mrs. baker. why? because she was famous for being the lady who cried alone. she cried, and cried, cried. and the viewing world laughed at her makeup. so, finally, the viewing world empathizes with mrs. baker. and perhaps that is worth the pain.
Quote from: Y on May 10, 2007, 10:42:59 PM
The concept of a 'creator' is a logical dead-end.
If one were to depend on logic then, yes, you are correct. However, all rules of logic may break down when trying to justify a creator. Just as our laws of physics and logic break down when approaching a "black hole."
I believe that many on here, simply supress the truth, of Gods existences, because it cramps their style, to know that they MAY have a higher standard to live to, other than accounting for their own personal agenda....THIS is the easy way out............my take is, that for those who chose to believe that, better hope they are correct...because 'eternity' can be a very, very long time...
Quote from: Bo D on May 14, 2007, 09:39:17 AM
If one were to depend on logic then, yes, you are correct. However, all rules of logic may break down when trying to justify a creator. Just as our laws of physics and logic break down when approaching a "black hole."
1. Break down? I refer you to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) on
Black Holes (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/htmltest/gifcity/bh_pub_faq.html):
"...In 1971 John Archibald Wheeler named such a thing a black hole, since light could not escape from it. Astronomers have many candidate objects they think are probably black holes, on the basis of several kinds of evidence (typically they are dark objects whose large mass can be deduced from their gravitational effects on other objects, and which sometimes emit X-rays, presumably from infalling matter). But the properties of black holes I'll talk about here are entirely theoretical. They're based on general relativity, which is a theory that seems supported by available evidence..."
"...I have to hit the singularity eventually, and before I get there there will be enormous tidal forces-- forces due to the curvature of spacetime-- which will squash me and my spaceship in some directions and stretch them in another until I look like a piece of spaghetti. At the singularity all of present physics is mute as to what will happen, but I won't care. I'll be dead..."
Twisted Physics: How Black Holes Spout Off (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/blackhole_jets_040817.html)
"...Black holes are complex beasts. Among their mysterious traits are intense jets of matter that sometimes shoot out from the rotational poles at nearly light-speed.
The jets are the result of some really twisted physics, according to a new computer model. And to unravel the mystery, a researcher invokes some imaginary string, a corkscrew and a certain child's plaything -- the Slinky..."
"...One idea is that the spinning of the black hole drags space and time, which twists magnetic field lines and generates a coiled force akin to what allows Tigger to bounce on his tail. Researchers led by Vladimir Semenov of the State University in St. Petersburg, Russia, have created a new computer model that supports this notion..."
2. Why are you trying to tie logic (especially as it concerns a 'creator') into the physics surrounding 'black holes'? Aren't you simply committing a bit of the old flawed 'Apples & Oranges' fallacious logic?
1. Yes. Our current understanding of the laws of physics may not be applicable when describing a black hole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes)
Hitting the singularity
As an infalling object approaches the singularity, tidal forces acting on it approach infinity. All components of the object, including atoms and subatomic particles, are torn away from each other before striking the singularity. At the singularity itself, effects are unknown; a theory of quantum gravity is needed to accurately describe events near it. Regardless, as soon as an object passes within the hole's event horizon, it is lost to the outside world. An observer far from the hole simply sees the hole's mass, charge, and angular momentum change to reflect the addition of the new object's matter.
Black hole unitarity
An open question in fundamental physics is the so-called information loss paradox, or black hole unitarity paradox. Classically, the laws of physics are the same run forward or in reverse. That is, if the position and velocity of every particle in the universe were measured, we could (disregarding chaos) work backwards to discover the history of the universe arbitrarily far in the past. In quantum mechanics, this corresponds to a vital property called unitarity which has to do with the conservation of probability.
Black holes, however, might violate this rule. The position under classical general relativity is subtle but straightforward: because of the classical no hair theorem, we can never determine what went into the black hole. However, as seen from the outside, information is never actually destroyed, as matter falling into the black hole appears from the outside to become more and more red-shifted as it approaches (but never ultimately appears to reach) the event horizon.
2. I really don't think so, although I admit it is just a bit of a stretch. All of the theories about black holes describe something which we cannot see but most certainly exists. And we think that our current state of the laws of physics, especially without a unified theory, will not apply as we approach the singularity.
I hypothesize that our rules of logic may not apply when we try to apply them to the concept of a creator, which we cannot see. Whether a creator exists, however, cannot be proven. But we also cannot prove that a creator does not exist.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 14, 2007, 11:43:55 AM
I believe that many on here, simply supress the truth, of Gods existences, because it cramps their style, to know that they MAY have a higher standard to live to, other than accounting for their own personal agenda....THIS is the easy way out............
Man, isn't that 'chock full o'nuts'!
1. Unless you're simply making all that up from whole cloth to support your religious beliefs and self-justify your adherence to them, where's your evidence on this suppression of a) "the truth" b) "god's existence"? How about the evidence showing your religious morality is a "higher standard", "it cramps their style", and "is the easy way out"?
Throwing out unsupported claims amounts to no more than the "Monkey in the Zoo" tactic...throw shit at the wall just to see what will stick.
So, Henry, have you stopped beating your wife yet? (Get tha' point?) :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 14, 2007, 11:43:55 AM...my take is, that for those who chose to believe that, better hope they are correct...because 'eternity' can be a very, very long time...
2: This is at least the second time recently you've thrown out the oft-refuted Pascal's Wager as a fear-based justification for your adherence to x-tianity.
The Rejection of Pascal's Wager (http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pascal.html):
********
In the seventeenth century the French mathematician and theologian, Blaise Pascal (1623- 1663) put forward a wager in his Pensees (Thoughts):
If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is.
Pascal's wager sounds deceptively simple. Many a religious person finds such a call attractive: one only needs to believe without considering the evidence and one would immediately be in a better position than that of the non-believer. After all, they say, if I believe and then it turns out to be true I get to enjoy heavenly bliss; but if my belief turns out to be false, and there is no God, then when I die, I lose nothing. An atheist, the religious person may continue, if he turns out to be wrong will suffer an eternity of torment. If the atheist turns out to be right then it is only equal to the believer's "worst case." Obviously then, the believer will say, you must wager on the side of belief.
But Pascal's argument is seriously flawed. The religious environment that Pascal lived in was simple. Belief and disbelief only boiled down to two choices: Roman Catholicism and atheism. With a finite choice, his argument would be sound. But on Pascal's own premise that God is infinitely incomprehensible, then in theory, there would be an infinite number of possible theologies about God, all of which are equally probable.
First, let us look at the more obvious possibilities we know of today - possibilities that were either unknown to, or ignored by, Pascal. In the Calvinistic theological doctrine of predestination, it makes no difference what one chooses to believe since, in the final analysis, who actually gets rewarded is an arbitrary choice of God. Furthermore we know of many more gods of many different religions, all of which have different schemes of rewards and punishments. Given that there are more than 2,500 gods known to man, and given Pascal's own assumptions that one cannot comprehend God (or gods), then it follows that, even the best case scenario (i.e. that God exists and that one of the known Gods and theologies happen to be the correct one) the chances of making a successful choice is less than one in 2,500.
Second, Pascal's negative theology does not exclude the possibility that the true God and true theology is not one that is currently known to the world. For instance it is possible to think of a God who rewards, say, only those who purposely step on sidewalk cracks. This sounds absurd, but given the premise that we cannot understand God, this possible theology cannot be dismissed. In such a case, the choice of what God to believe would be irrelevant as one would be rewarded on a premise totally distinct from what one actually believes. Furthermore as many atheist philosophers have pointed out, it is also possible to conceive of a deity who rewards intellectual honesty, a God who rewards atheists with eternal bliss simply because they dared to follow where the evidence leads - that given the available evidence, no God exists! Finally we should also note that given Pascal's premise, it is possible to conceive of a God who is evil and who punishes the good and rewards the evil.
Thus Pascal's call for us not to consider the evidence but to simply believe on prudential grounds fails. As the atheist philosopher, J.L. Mackie wrote:
Once the full range of such possibilities is taken into account, Pascal's argument from comparative expectations falls to the ground. The cultivation of non-rational belief is not even practically reasonable.
********
Quote from: Bo D on May 14, 2007, 02:28:11 PM
1. Yes. Our current understanding of the laws of physics may not be applicable when describing a black hole
2. I really don't think so, although I admit it is just a bit of a stretch. All of the theories about black holes describe something which we cannot see but most certainly exists. And we think that our current state of the laws of physics, especially without a unified theory, will not apply as we approach the singularity.
I hypothesize that our rules of logic may not apply when we try to apply them to the concept of a creator, which we cannot see. Whether a creator exists, however, cannot be proven. But we also cannot prove that a creator does not exist.
I have to ask you to clarify your use of the terms "break down" and "may not be applicable", because it certainly appears physics is able to define, describe, and identify properties of black holes. As my second source indicated, even going as far as to create computer models.
Obviously, physics, as all branches of science, evolves as more information is accrued, it seems disingenuous to insinuate that a) any discoveries/information about black holes are going to cause science to throw the entirely of physics out the window, b) physics cannot evolve to include any new discoveries/information about black holes, c) something seemingly invisible to the naked eye which with science we can identify and reasonably point to its existence based up scientific evidence is somehow a basis for, and related to, another thing (the proposition of a creator) for which we cannot identify nor reasonably point to its existence based upon one iota of scientific evidence.
You're simply trying to tie logic in based on 'invisibility', a flawed association from the get go.
As far as your hypothesis concerning the 'failure' of logic in describing/proving a 'creator', I suggest it doesn't hold water and refer you to one of my recent replies to Awol in the Church Lady's Corner regard possibilities and probabilities. Logic, while understanding possibilities, leads us to to discard the improbable for the probable based on the available evidence (Occam's Razor for one).
Okay, Y, I would definatly get my arse kicked if I was in a court of law, trying to win a case.....It is just an obseration from myself, that is all....not EVERYTHING is subject to scientific explanation....I'm not making anything up....It is my opinion, it is entirely and un-supported claim... :yes:......maybe it is 'chock full o'nuts'. :biggrin: ...I'm not forcing it upon anyone...just making a statement...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 14, 2007, 03:32:00 PM
Okay, Y, I would definatly get my arse kicked if I was in a court of law, trying to win a case.....It is just an obseration from myself, that is all....not EVERYTHING is subject to scientific explanation....I'm not making anything up....It is my opinion, it is entirely and un-supported claim... :yes:......maybe it is 'chock full o'nuts'. :biggrin: ...I'm not forcing it upon anyone...just making a statement...
Since when isn't "everything" subject to a scientific explanation? That's what science is for, to give us 'explanations'...truthful ones based upon the available evidence. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Y on May 14, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
I have to ask you to clarify your use of the terms "break down" and "may not be applicable", because it certainly appears physics is able to define, describe, and identify properties of black holes. As my second source indicated, even going as far as to create computer models.
I don't believe that I am the first to describe the breakdown of the laws of physics in the presence of a singularity.
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/19/9/4/1 (http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/19/9/4/1)
"the singularity at the centre of the hole, where the density of matter and energy become infinite and
all known laws of physics break down."
http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/preskill/blackhole_bet.html (http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/preskill/blackhole_bet.html)
"The equations of general relativity lead to the inescapable conclusion that collapsing stars, if massive enough, will keep right on collapsing, until they tear a hole in the fabric of space-time. At such a location, called a singularity, gravity is so intense that
the familiar laws of physics break down."
http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/bh_structure.htm (http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/bh_structure.htm)
"At the center of the black hole lies a singularity, that is, a region where
the current laws of physics break down because the circumstances are so extreme."
http://www.astronomytoday.com/cosmology/blackholes.html (http://www.astronomytoday.com/cosmology/blackholes.html)
"The boundary around the collapsed star having this radius is referred to as the 'event horizon'. Anything, whether it be light or matter passing this boundary will be forever lost within the black hole with no chance of escape. What happens beyond the event horizon nobody can tell, because
all the laws of physics break down and no longer apply.
Quote from: Y on May 14, 2007, 03:40:08 PM
Since when isn't "everything" subject to a scientific explanation? That's what science is for, to give us 'explanations'...truthful ones based upon the available evidence. :icon_twisted:
Opinions is NOT subject to scientific explanation.......
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 14, 2007, 04:26:47 PM
Opinions are NOT subject to scientific explanation.......
FTFY :biggrin:
You want me to fix that too?
Looks like Jerry Falwell got the same results that so many others have.
Quote
One week before his death, Falwell told CNN's Christiane Amanpour he needed at least 20 more years to accomplish his vision for Liberty University. (Watch Falwell explain why he wanted '20 more years' )
Falwell told the story of Hezekiah, who in the Bible asked to live for 15 more years.
"I'm praying the same prayer with an option to renew," Falwell said.
Given that this statement was made just last week, it appears that Falwell also got the middle finger from god. :wink:
In other words, god said: :finger01:
... and in case Jerry didn't hear him, god said, "let me turn it up a notch." :finger2:
Now I know I'm gettin' kicked out o' the Hawk's Bar and Grille. ;D
Like I said, sometimes he just says No, and means it. :wink:
My position is that god doesn't exist, and as such, these inane utterances from the dumbest among us go unanswered. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2007, 01:16:59 AM
My position is that god doesn't exist, and as such, these inane utterances from the dumbest among us go unanswered. :yes:
an interesting position. completely irrefutable. however, by the same logic, one could take the position that the moon doesn't exist, and be just as right.
(one could argue that the position "wheather god exists or not has no bearing on how i choose to live my life" would be better)
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2007, 01:00:00 AM
In other words, god said: :finger01:
... and in case Jerry didn't hear him, god said, "let me turn it up a notch." :finger2:
Hate to say it, Dude, but Falwell deserved it. And just in case, I'll say my farewell now in case lightning strikes me. :eek:
Quote from: Bo D on May 16, 2007, 10:10:55 AM
Hate to say it, Dude, but Falwell deserved it. And just in case, I'll say my farewell now in case lightning strikes me. :eek:
what did he deserve?
I think he's talking about God saying No to another 15 or 20 years of living.
Quote from: awol on May 16, 2007, 07:39:44 AM
an interesting position. completely irrefutable. however, by the same logic, one could take the position that the moon doesn't exist, and be just as right.
Really? I like to see you expound on that.
Quote from: Bo D on May 16, 2007, 10:10:55 AM
Hate to say it, Dude, but Falwell deserved it. And just in case, I'll say my farewell now in case lightning strikes me. :eek:
:spooked: :biggrin:
He did spew forth some vile bile in his time. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2007, 12:52:04 PM
Really? I like to see you expound on that.
simple. all i have to do is reject any evidence you provide for the existence of the moon.
nobody can prove a negative, so to ask me to prove the moon doesn't exist is futile.
Falwell no doubt died from self-inflicted methane poisoning. He was a gas bag, a hate monger and charlatan. If there was a god, he didn't act quickly enough to take the bastard out. Now we have hundreds of moron, christian robots with law degrees in the gov't and elsewhere.
Fuck him.
Now to the mystery of god; if you find some god a mystery that can't be fanthomed, then you are right up there in IQ with Fartwell's lawyers.
Quote from: dan foster on May 17, 2007, 10:09:11 PM
Now to the mystery of god; if you find some god a mystery that can't be fanthomed, then you are right up there in IQ with Fartwell's lawyers.
Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
Description of Appeal to Ridicule
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:
X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
Therefore claim C is false.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can make it reasonable to reject the claim. One form of this line of reasoning is known as a "reductio ad absurdum" ("reducing to absurdity"). In this sort of argument, the idea is to show that a contradiction (a statement that must be false) or an absurd result follows from a claim. For example: "Bill claims that a member of a minority group cannot be a racist. However, this is absurd. Think about this: white males are a minority in the world. Given Bill's claim, it would follow that no white males could be racists. Hence, the Klan, Nazis, and white supremists are not racist organizations."
Since the claim that the Klan, Nazis, and white supremists are not racist organizations is clearly absurd, it can be concluded that the claim that a member of a minority cannot be a racist is false.
Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
"Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but that is just laughable."
"Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks! Hah! Hah!"
"Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key to peace!"
that all ya got?
Quote from: dan foster on May 17, 2007, 10:09:11 PM
Now to the mystery of god; if you find some god a mystery that can't be fanthomed, then you are right up there in IQ with Fartwell's lawyers.
Gee, thanks, Dan. I like you, too. I'll just pop on an old Blood Sweat & Tears album, vinyl no less, and contemplate our friendship while I sing along with "And when I die"
I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.
Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell,
But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
Yes only my dying will tell.
Yeah, only my dying will tell.
But I'm so damned stupid I can't remember the words.
God is great! He just needs to hit the drawing board again.
What happened to Y? I was beginning to enjoy that little exchange with him! Cool dude!
Quote from: Bo D on May 14, 2007, 04:07:33 PM
I don't believe that I am the first to describe the breakdown of the laws of physics in the presence of a singularity.
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/19/9/4/1 (http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/19/9/4/1)
"the singularity at the centre of the hole, where the density of matter and energy become infinite and all known laws of physics break down."
http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/preskill/blackhole_bet.html (http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/preskill/blackhole_bet.html)
"The equations of general relativity lead to the inescapable conclusion that collapsing stars, if massive enough, will keep right on collapsing, until they tear a hole in the fabric of space-time. At such a location, called a singularity, gravity is so intense that the familiar laws of physics break down."
http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/bh_structure.htm (http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/bh_structure.htm)
"At the center of the black hole lies a singularity, that is, a region where the current laws of physics break down because the circumstances are so extreme."
http://www.astronomytoday.com/cosmology/blackholes.html (http://www.astronomytoday.com/cosmology/blackholes.html)
"The boundary around the collapsed star having this radius is referred to as the 'event horizon'. Anything, whether it be light or matter passing this boundary will be forever lost within the black hole with no chance of escape. What happens beyond the event horizon nobody can tell, because all the laws of physics break down and no longer apply.
<...in my best authoritarian voice thick with parental overtones...>
"Now would you jump off a cliff if all your friends were doing it?" :biggrin:
I'm sure you see my point... :yes:
Quote from: Bo D on May 18, 2007, 10:55:03 PM
What happened to Y? I was beginning to enjoy that little exchange with him! Cool dude!
Oh Ah'll be in and out, life must supersede cyberspace ya' know. Lata'! :biggrin:
Sorry, but if you are living your life on the off chance there MIGHT be a hell, then god's plan is a good one for you.
I hated blood, sweat and tears as they were one of those Dire-Straits-labeled "a trumpet playin' band".
The very idea of a demon or satan coming to "get cha", in their song lyrics speaks volumes to me. However, I really should have rephrased my implying that one is a moron if one believes the silliness of religion. It is a perfectly natural occurance among primates (even chimpanzee's have a form of religion), but a pretty sad holdover from genetic survival strategies that we are stuck with for a few more thousand years (takes about 20,000 years for genetic changes to express themselves in humans and we have only been reading for about 5,000 +/-).
Humans will continue to see "human action or ""intelligence"" around us in nature until we have replaced that genetic predisposition with something more reasonable, like logic.
If there is a god, do any of you think that yours is the only one, the best selection and the most perfect? And, ultimately, who created "him"?
One of my latest, favorite quotes from Faces in the Clouds (Guthrie) is by David Hume:
"If an intelligent being is required to explain the order in nature then the intelligent agent will in turn need to be explained....But if we stop at the agent explanation, and go no farther; why go so far?"
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 09:46:05 PM
Not to mention that other thought, "God always answers your prayers, sometimes, he just says No."
From George Carlin:
For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.
So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.
Quote from: dan foster on May 19, 2007, 04:24:47 PM
It is a perfectly natural occurance among primates (even chimpanzee's have a form of religion), but a pretty sad holdover from genetic survival strategies that we are stuck with for a few more thousand years (takes about 20,000 years for genetic changes to express themselves in humans and we have only been reading for about 5,000 +/-).
That is unless the idiots, acting in the name of religion, pummel themselves (and the rest of us) into oblivion with guns and missiles before then.
Quote from: Locutus on May 19, 2007, 07:57:04 PM
That is unless the idiots, acting in the name of religion, pummel themselves (and the rest of us) into oblivion with guns and missiles before then.
That is the crux of it, is it not? We have a "christian" leader, with plenty of backers in the US, willing to go fight them evil infidels, the muslims, in their territory. All while there are more muslims than that willing to kill all those infidel christians "over there".
We may never get the chance to evolve passed this crap. Enlightenment (devoid of religion) will take some time.
Quote from: Y on May 19, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
<...in my best authoritarian voice thick with parental overtones...>
"Now would you jump off a cliff if all your friends were doing it?" :biggrin:
I'm sure you see my point... :yes:
Depends on what's at the bottom of the cliff. :biggrin: (I pack my own parachute, btw!)
I do see your point. I trust you see mine as well. :yes:
Thanks.
Here ya' go Bo. Interesting article and supports my previous point(s):
What We Know About the Universe Is About To Change.
The Secrets of Dark Energy (http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2007/edition_05-27-2007/Dark_Energy)
By Meg Urry
Published: May 27, 2007
What if you wanted to count the number of people who live in the United States, but you could not move or communicate beyond your home?
You might start by counting the members of your family. By looking out a window, you could add your few dozen neighbors. Using binoculars, you might be able to tally all the buildings in your town and guess at the number of people in each. At that point, you'd have surveyed your known universe and everyone you could count in it. You could then construct a theory of why your world has this number of residents.
But how would you feel if you discovered that you had missed—by a huge factor—most of the people in the U.S.? That your picture of the larger world had been horribly incomplete?
In effect, this is what happened in 1998, when it became clear that the biggest part of our universe had been hidden for all of human history. Some fundamental aspect of our world had been missed and altogether unknown.
Scientists have long recognized that the universe has been growing larger since its origin 13.7 billion years ago in an extremely rapid expansion called the "Big Bang." But we assumed that this expansion should be slowing down due to the pull of gravity. In 1998, however, two teams of astrophysicists discovered that the expansion is actually speeding up. They observed a mysterious form of "energy" that opposes gravity and is causing the galaxies throughout the universe to move apart faster and faster.
It's as if you dropped this magazine and, instead of falling to the floor, it suddenly soared toward the ceiling. That would certainly signal the presence of an unexpected force of some kind. In the same way, the galaxies' accelerated expansion signaled the presence of a previously unknown entity in the universe.
The discovery of "Dark Energy" is arguably the most important scientific breakthrough of the last 50 years. A full understanding of it eventually could have an effect on our daily lives.
But first, we have to figure out what exactly Dark Energy is. So far, we know only that it causes the expansion of the universe to speed up. We call it "dark" because we don't directly see it. " Dark" is code for "we have absolutely no clue what it is!"
Dark Energy is exciting for several reasons. Scientists have determined that Dark Energy makes up two-thirds of the universe. So, until we understand Dark Energy, we clearly cannot understand our universe. Also, Dark Energy was not predicted by standard theories of physics. That means our basic theories—our descriptions of elementary particles like electrons, neutrinos and quarks, and of the forces between them—need a major upgrade. Physics theories drive key parts of modern life, like electronics, engineering and medicine. Who knows what a more complete theory of physics could lead to?
We've been in this position before. Around the turn of the 20th century, physicists thought they understood nearly everything. Starting with Sir Isaac Newton's brilliant theory of gravity in the 17th century, scientists had successfully explained one natural phenomenon after another—from motion to optics to heat, sound and finally, by the late 19th century, electromagnetism. But then radioactivity and subatomic particles like the electron were discovered, and these phenomena could be explained only with the invention of quantum mechanics—a new theory governing the physics of very tiny distances. At the time, quantum theory appeared to have little immediate practical value. Yet quantum mechanics dominates our daily lives today. It's at the heart of computers, medical devices, cell phones, cameras, iPods and every other modern electronic device.
Now history seems to be repeating itself. Until very recently, we thought we were on the brink of understanding all of cosmology—then came Dark Energy. It is far too soon to know whether Dark Energy will fuel the economic engine of the 21st century the way quantum mechanics drove that of the last 50 years. But if history is a guide, it's clear we're on the brink of dramatic changes.
What excites me personally is how the discovery of Dark Energy illustrates that science is not a set of beliefs that one constructs. Instead, scientists observe nature, then develop theories that describe their observations. Science is driven by nature itself, and nature gives us no choice. It is what it is.
As new facts emerge, scientific theories can be proved wrong or in need of modification, but scientists cannot ignore them. Eventually the facts will lead to the right theory.
What's next? NASA, the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation have joined forces to plan space satellites and ground-based telescopes that will probe the properties of Dark Energy. What we observe about the history of Dark Energy light-years away will have huge implications for the future of the universe. If Dark Energy gets weaker, gravity could take over again and pull the universe back together. Scientists refer to this fate as the "Big Crunch." If Dark Energy gets stronger with time, it eventually may pull apart the galaxies, stars and planets now held together by gravity. This is called the "Big Rip." Or the universe could have an intermediate fate, expanding gradually to a vast, cold, empty place—called the "Big Chill." When we understand Dark Energy, we will be able to predict which of these (or other) futures is most likely.
The answers are there, and I have no doubt that we will figure them out with the contributions of the smart young people now taking high school physics—though it may take a decade or two. We are now at the beginning of a great new adventure to push forward the frontiers of understanding.
Prof. Meg Urry will become chair of the Department of Physics at Yale this July and is a renowned researcher in the area of massive black holes.
The Thrill of Big Ideas
Every so often in the history of science, a theory is presented that transforms our thinking about the universe we inhabit.
The Earth revolves around the Sun. In the 16th century, Copernicus' heliocentric theory of the heavens ushered in the age of modern science.
What goes up must come down. In the 17th century, Sir Isaac Newton showed that the Law of Gravity applied to all objects in the universe.
E=mc2. Perhaps the most famous equation ever. Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity revolutionized ideas about energy.
Think small. Niels Bohr was a contributor to quantum mechanics, which explains the universe at the atomic level and is the basis for our electronic devices.
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 02:57:51 PM
What excites me personally is how the discovery of Dark Energy illustrates that science is not a set of beliefs that one constructs. Instead, scientists observe nature, then develop theories that describe their observations. Science is driven by nature itself, and nature gives us no choice. It is what it is.
As new facts emerge, scientific theories can be proved wrong or in need of modification, but scientists cannot ignore them. Eventually the facts will lead to the right theory.
We are now at the beginning of a great new adventure to push forward the frontiers of understanding.
Thank you, Y. Yes...I read that article recently. Very interesting. I particularly liked the sections excerpted above. But regarding the "frontiers of understanding" I believe there will always be a horizon over which we cannot see.
By the way, I also recently an article that may negate the "Dark Energy" concept of a forever expanding universe. It seems that scientists have been searching for evidence of a sufficient quantity of "Dark Matter" to keep the universe from flying apart. Not they may have found it. After all...."As new facts emerge, scientific theories can be proved wrong or in need of modification, but scientists cannot ignore them. Eventually the facts will lead to the right theory."
Ring of Dark Matter Found Around a GalaxyScientists believe they have found a ring of mysterious dark matter surrounding a distant galaxy -- a potential breakthrough in identifying the most widely distributed but least understood particles in the universe.
Using the Hubble Space Telescope, astronomers identified the ghostly ring that they said was created by the long-ago collision of two galaxy clusters. The dark matter itself was not visible -- it does not shine or reflect light -- but it left a distinct "footprint" in the shapes of background galaxies. Although the presence of dark matter has been detected before, it has always been far more interspersed among the hot gases and galaxies that make up galaxy clusters.
"This is the strongest evidence so far for the existence of dark matter," said astronomer M. James Jee of Johns Hopkins University. He likened dark matter to the wind -- which we cannot see except through its effects on other objects.
Scientists believe they have found a ring of mysterious dark matter surrounding a distant galaxy -- a potential breakthrough in identifying the most widely distributed but least understood particles in the universe.
Using the Hubble Space Telescope, astronomers identified the ghostly ring that they said was created by the long-ago collision of two galaxy clusters. The dark matter itself was not visible -- it does not shine or reflect light -- but it left a distinct "footprint" in the shapes of background galaxies. Although the presence of dark matter has been detected before, it has always been far more interspersed among the hot gases and galaxies that make up galaxy clusters.
"This is the strongest evidence so far for the existence of dark matter," said astronomer M. James Jee of Johns Hopkins University. He likened dark matter to the wind -- which we cannot see except through its effects on other objects.
Astronomers have long theorized the existence of the invisible substance because without its mass, galaxy clusters would not have sufficient gravity to keep from flying apart.The ring is huge, measuring 2.6 million light-years across. It was found in a galaxy cluster 5 billion light-years from Earth. Jee said he was first annoyed when he saw the ring because he assumed it was a distortion or artifact. It took months of checking and rechecking before his team became convinced that the ring was actually a manifestation of dark matter.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/20/AR2007052001270.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/20/AR2007052001270.html)
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 03:22:21 PM
Thank you, Y. Yes...I read that article recently. Very interesting. I particularly liked the sections excerpted above. But regarding the "frontiers of understanding" I believe there will always be a horizon over which we cannot see.
Thanks for the article, another interesting one.
Now whether "there will always be a horizon over which we cannot see" is a probability (it certainly exists as a possibility), only time will tell.
I have to ask though, what are you implying with that assertion?
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 03:43:33 PM
Thanks for the article, another interesting one.
Now whether "there will always be a horizon over which we cannot see" is a probability (it certainly exists as a possibility), only time will tell.
I have to ask though, what are you implying with that assertion?
No implication intended. You know that old saying? "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know."
I don't know. Do you ever think there will come a time when we know everything?
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 03:51:26 PM
No implication intended. You know that old saying? "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know."
I don't know. Do you ever think there will come a time when we know everything?
Who knows... :biggrin:
As long as the authoritarian political and religious lust for power and possessions doesn't render intellectualism something which should be (metaphorically speaking) burnt at the stake, humanity might continue to learn enough to cast off the ghosts of its less civilized past.
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 04:08:37 PM
As long as the authoritarian political and religious lust for power and possessions doesn't render intellectualism something which should be (metaphorically speaking) burnt at the stake, humanity might continue to learn enough to cast off the ghosts of its less civilized past.
That day can't come soon enough for me. Unfortunately, it's most likely going to take a few more thousand years. Hopefully, the stupid among us won't find a way to kill us all off in the meantime.
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 04:08:37 PM
Who knows... :biggrin:
As long as the authoritarian political and religious lust for power and possessions doesn't render intellectualism something which should be (metaphorically speaking) burnt at the stake, humanity might continue to learn enough to cast off the ghosts of its less civilized past.
Oh, but that wasn't an answer to my question, now was it? Let's assume for conjecture's sake that we overcome all resistance to intellectualism.
Do you ever think there will come a time when we know everything there is to know?
Personally, I don't think that mankind in it's present form/stage-of-evolution will last long enough to fathom every single mystery of the universe.
< Interjection >
Star Trek fans know that V-ger eventually will return with everything there is to know. :biggrin:
< /Interjection >
Quote from: Locutus on May 31, 2007, 04:11:39 PM
Unfortunately, it's most likely going to take a few more thousand years.
My guess is that it will take far longer.
Let's throw another monkey on to the fire. What if we did learn everything there was to know? What then? What would be our purpose to continue?
I believe it will take another "Hitler" like event to initiate the change necessary. Only problem with that is it would likely result in a nuclear event. . .
Quote from: Locutus on May 31, 2007, 04:17:43 PM
< Interjection >
Star Trek fans know that V-ger eventually will return with everything there is to know. :biggrin:
< /Interjection >
Awwww...but V-ger had a flaw. It had forgotten who its "creator" was. ;D
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 04:14:44 PM
Oh, but that wasn't an answer to my question, now was it?
Ah but yes it was... :biggrin:
You apparently mistook my placing it in a humorous vein (who knows) for no answer when it was simply one that needed some insight and thought.
You asked me a question regarding the future, my answer (though humorous) pointed to the fact that the future is based upon far too many variables to make a prediction anything more than a random guess. :biggrin:
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 04:14:44 PM
Let's assume for conjecture's sake that we overcome all resistance to intellectualism.
Do you ever think there will come a time when we know everything there is to know?
Personally, I don't think that mankind in it's present form/stage-of-evolution will last long enough to fathom every single mystery of the universe.
Now
that's a different proposition altogether, and a prediction would be dependent upon whether humanity's increase in knowlege will increase it's civilized state or whether that increase in knowlege will simply give us more self-destructive power for which we lack the humanity to control.
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 04:42:54 PM
You apparently mistook my placing it in a humorous vein (who knows) for no answer when it was simply one that needed some insight and thought.
You asked me a question regarding the future, my answer (though humorous) pointed to the fact that the future is based upon far too many variables to make a prediction anything more than a random guess. :biggrin:
So sorry, but when you start bringing "authoritarian political and religious lust for power and possessions".........
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 04:08:37 PM
As long as the authoritarian political and religious lust for power and possessions doesn't render intellectualism something which should be (metaphorically speaking) burnt at the stake, humanity might continue to learn enough to cast off the ghosts of its less civilized past.
.....into the discussion, I get the heebie jeebies and lose all sense of humor. ;D
It's funny. There have been several articles published recently and even a TV show on predictions of future life. We can't even predict 100 years out very well, much less the millennia we are talking about.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/30/AR2007053002305.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/30/AR2007053002305.html)
A Peek at Our Far-Flung Future"embarrassing predictions have been made by futurists over the years. There were certainly a few: "Aeroplanes for Everybody; English Balloonist Says They Will Cost Only $500 Each in Ten Years" (from 1908); "Science Will Save World From War, Physicist Avers" (1929).
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 05:04:22 PM
So sorry, but when you start bringing "authoritarian political and religious lust for power and possessions"..............into the discussion, I get the heebie jeebies and lose all sense of humor. ;D
LMAO!!!
Din't mean ta' skeer ya'... :biggrin:
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 05:04:22 PM
It's funny. There have been several articles published recently and even a TV show on predictions of future life. We can't even predict 100 years out very well, much less the millennia we are talking about.
I wanna' know where my damn flyin' car is! :biggrin:
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 05:21:47 PM
I wanna' know where my damn flyin' car is! :biggrin:
Screw the flyin' car, Dude. I want a teleporter. :biggrin:
And what about this one...."Science Will Save World From War, Physicist Avers" (1929)."
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 05:27:56 PM
Screw the flyin' car, Dude. I want a teleporter. :biggrin:
Ya' better want a second one, I don't think one is gonna' do anything but scramble yer atoms out into the universe... :biggrin:
Quote from: Bo D on May 31, 2007, 05:27:56 PM
And what about this one...."Science Will Save World From War, Physicist Avers" (1929)."
That's not gonna' happen until critical thinking and the ability to discern propaganda becomes the norm. Until then people are going to be manipulated into supporting those authoritarian political and religious (had ta' throw that in again :biggrin: ) < caution - hyperbole ahead! > devils hiding behind smiling faces and under halos.
Quote from: Y on May 31, 2007, 05:40:13 PM
That's not gonna' happen until critical thinking and the ability to discern propaganda becomes the norm.
I don't have much faith in that happening.
Stimulating conservation, Dude. Thanks, but I gotta go.
Lata' dude, I smell supper myself!
Dark Matter =/= Dark Energy
Of course, Dark Energ only describes an effect. There may not be anything "new" to attribute the effect to. Since we don't know where the center of the universe is, we don't know what is accelerating the galaxies in any direction. Dark Matter (a real possibility) is just that, unseen matter, that can be predicted to add enough matter to the universe to slow it back to an implosion vice ever expanding.
I don't there is going to be a Dark Energy car around very soon. At least not until gas is over $10 a gallon :>)
Quote from: dan foster on May 31, 2007, 07:55:03 PM
Since we don't know where the center of the universe is, we don't know what is accelerating the galaxies in any direction.
Indeed. In fact there are opinions that there is no center of the universe....and no edge.
Some think there is an edge, an "event horizon" looking back far enough in time that one can see the earliest formation of the universe as we know it. However, is there an end, or a beginning? An infinite universe is hard to comprehend and the reason there are so many religions trying to put some sort of box around that. Has to be something controlling, making, behind all this, right?
Could God be man's excuse for the unthinkable, and the unexplained?
Maybe thought of God, or any other deity is man's way of moving responsibility for their behavior from themselves. Certainly if a person "believes in" God, then God is completely responsible for any good, bad or benign event in life. God can be given responsibility for almost anything. Loss of loved one, job, possessions to name a few. On the other hand, God can be thanked for positive movement during life. If all things belong to God, good or bad, then the person is only responsible to exist and follow that belief. That removes responsibility from the person to God, who is unseen and unexplained.
I believe that the idea of God is man's way of reigning in behavior, thought and deed through expected punishment and reward. It is a basic law of civilization, but not necessarily a correct theory.
Then explain the concept of Free Will, where 'God' gives man the ability to make good/bad, moral/immoral choices. If one man has the free will to choose to shoot and kill his neighbor, how do you blame God for that passing? It's easier to say it was the will of God, than it is to say it's the will of man. (and I do believe in a God)
Free will falls into the catagory of conscience. to make a decsion to do wrong is a free decision. do or do not. Belief in God just means that the conscience of the individual is governed by the position established by founders of whatever organized religion they attach themselves to.
if you exercise free will and believe in God, you can still absolve yourself of responsibility by being "forgiven", although consequences may be meted out.
the will of God would be useful when things play out differently than you wish because of your actions or inactions.
I like to think of God as christianity's ultimate cop out. he must be out there somewhere, but we dont chat often.
Although I do tend to blame him often for my failures and disappointments, while I reward myself for my successes. I like that kind of relationship, no responsibility on me, all of it on an unseen being. Works for me.
There is nothing out there, but planets, stars, galaxies, dark matter......
Religion is a mistaken survival strategy whereby humans see other "human" activity all around them; faces in the clouds, force behind the storm hitting or not hitting. It is a natural, unconcious attempt to provide order and meaning to NOTHING and EVERYTHING.
There are plenty of bible huggers that think they are controlled by both good and bad invisible forces: devils and gods. They take responsibility for nothing; everything is god's will, even when the evil ones make them do something bad. Craziness.
The best explanation I have heard, so far, is in the book Faces in the Clouds by Guthrie. Not really an easy read as one should have some background in Kant, Freud, Nitsche (sp), et al, but it does a wonderful job of wrapping religion in the auspices of antropomorphism, which is exactly what religion is; all religions, cults, etc.
Well, Dan, you have to admit that belief in some deity reigns in bad behavior to a degree, and doesn't do any harm. As long as they don't knock on my door, they can spend their time and money in their pursuit of happiness. I will spend mine on mine.
Damfast: "Well, Dan, you have to admit that belief in some deity reigns in bad behavior to a degree, and doesn't do any harm."
Well, Dam, tell that to the Sunnis and the Shiites and the Kurds, and the palestinians and israelis, and the Irish catholics and protestants, and the abortion doctors and the folks in OK city, and the folks in Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia, Kosovo, Indonesia, Phillipines, Colorado City, UT, and the non-christians in the VA hospitals or at the AF Academy, or........
i was considering going there dan, but i caught myself when i realized she said "belief in". nobody goes to war because of their belief, they do it because their belief has been twisted by an individual with an agenda. in my opinion.
There were very strong thunderstorms in and around Fort Lauderdale today. In Oakland Park, a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, the roof of a church gymnasium collapsed in the wind and rain. The pastor of the church was just shown on the news and said that the gym will most likely have to be demolished, but he was trusting in the lord to get him and his congregants through this hardship.
Again, god simply sucks. He allowed the roof of the church of a group of his followers to collapse in a storm, when he could have just waved his hand and sent the storms around that church.
Those who believe that a personal god looks out for them need a serious reality check. It's obvious that their god more often gives the middle finger to his followers than he does to the non-believers.
As I said before, god sucks.
Well, maybe he was in deep conversation with Tammy Faye, and just wasnt paying attention.
And once again, we dont face our own issues, we say it is God's responsibility....
And dont yell at ME Dan, I have no strong opinions about anything except paying speeding tickets.
Quote from: Locutus on June 12, 2007, 11:11:08 PM
There were very strong thunderstorms in and around Fort Lauderdale today. In Oakland Park, a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, the roof of a church gymnasium collapsed in the wind and rain. The pastor of the church was just shown on the news and said that the gym will most likely have to be demolished, but he was trusting in the lord to get him and his congregants through this hardship.
Again, god simply sucks. He allowed the roof of the church of a group of his followers to collapse in a storm, when he could have just waved his hand and sent the storms around that church.
Those who believe that a personal god looks out for them need a serious reality check. It's obvious that their god more often gives the middle finger to his followers than he does to the non-believers.
As I said before, god sucks.
Well...maybe we suck for even asking God to take care of us like that. 8)
Quote from: Bo D on June 13, 2007, 02:13:24 PM
Well...maybe we suck for even asking God to take care of us like that. 8)
:thumbsup: :no1:
We have a winnah!
Quote from: Bo D on June 13, 2007, 02:13:24 PM
Well...maybe we suck for even asking God to take care of us like that. 8)
Agreed. :biggrin:
The roof fell in due to wind and rain. Maybe it needed repaired. Maybe no one was paying attention the fact it needed repairs. Maybe it fell in as a wake up call. FIX ME!!!
;)
Quote from: damfast on June 13, 2007, 06:23:17 AM
And dont yell at ME Dan, I have no strong opinions about anything except paying speeding tickets.
Sorry, but when you said: "Well, Dan, you have to admit that belief in some deity reigns in bad behavior to a degree, and doesn't do any harm.
I had to tak exception. Religion is a BAD thing in the world and will likely be the cause of the death of most of us, even those of us not "playing the game". The mear fact that the US chose sides in establishing and maintaining israel makes me an unwilling participant and I don't like it. The invasion of iraq is yet another example. Stupidity at its highest form. Any moron who could read would have known taking sadaam out was an invitation to the sunnis and shiites to go at it. Even dumbass bush senior knew better, but his idiot son?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3755850.stm
God still sucks! :yes: :razz:
You must know him intimately to know this Locutus.
Quote from: Locutus on June 23, 2007, 11:53:57 PM
God still sucks! :yes: :razz:
how can something suck if they don't exist???? :confused:
just wonderin... ;) ;D
Quote from: pariann on June 24, 2007, 05:52:35 PM
You must know him intimately to know this Locutus.
I judge him by his deeds, or at least those that some attribute to him. :wink:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 24, 2007, 06:02:26 PM
how can something suck if they don't exist???? :confused:
just wonderin... ;) ;D
He sucks in that some people seem all to willing to believe in a mystical being and all the more willing to act on his behalf based on what they perceive him to be telling them. Those are the worst of them who carry out mass murder and other atrocities.
The others are the ones who choose to believe in him and his goodness when there are countless examples that he (if he does exist) doesn't give a damn about them and their daily lives. All it takes is one look at facts, evidence and science, and any notion of a personal god who takes interest in the personal lives of the common folk should be tossed right out the window.
If (and it's a big if) the human species survives long enough to see the notion of a deity cast upon the trash pile of history like so many other silly things have been, I posit that we as a species, as well as our planet, will be far and away better off.
Quote from: Locutus on June 24, 2007, 10:46:32 PM
If (and it's a big if) the human species survives long enough to see the notion of a deity cast upon the trash pile of history like so many other silly things have been, I posit that we as a species, as well as our planet, will be far and away better off.
Amen.... ;D
I find it very frustrating that the illusion that IS religion will be the end of us all.
Thanks for the amen brotha' Dan. :biggrin:
What does NO F8H mean?
I'll leave it to Dan to answer you, but to me that looks like an airplane tail number.
November Oscar Foxtrot Eight Hotel.
But as we all know, I have a penchant for aviation. ;D
no faith...(f-eight-h)
Quote from: awol on June 27, 2007, 07:53:07 AM
no faith...(f-eight-h)
Hmmm.. I wouldn't have thought of that awol. ;D
Ahhh see that was kind of the angle I was thinking, but I couldn't figure out how to make it work.
Its my license plate number ;)
Just in case anyone has forgotten. God still sucks. :razz: :yes: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on July 06, 2007, 11:59:16 PM
Just in case anyone has forgotten. God still sucks. :razz: :yes: ;D
need to get yerself a new god, oh king of borg.
Quote from: Locutus on July 06, 2007, 11:59:16 PM
Just in case anyone has forgotten. God still sucks. :razz: :yes: ;D
At least Hank got it right this time. God can't suck as "he" or it doesn't exist. The concept sure does and leaves those of us godless types wondering how anyone in their right mind can believe such crap.
I even think the concept of human sacrifice in killing jesus is a subtle warning from the church that invented it that; "see, if he can kill his only son like this (see Mel Gibson's movie for the details), then you low-life rabble don't stand a chance when he brings on "his" fire and brimstone". Perfect creator my ass.
get yerself a better god. there's lots.
I think God has a plan that is so advanced, we cannot understand it.
It is like that Butterfly effect theory that something as small as a butterfly flapping its wings can a hurricane half way around the world.
Just as the butterfly cannot understand that its wing flap has such repercussions, neither do we understand how Tammy Faye having cancer serves Gods ultimate plan.
It is like in JOB. Job does not know about God's talk with the Devil. Nor does he understand that his story will inspire others for posterity.
He just has t have faith that it serves a higher purpose.
Quote from: bitterguy on July 08, 2007, 10:29:03 PM
I think God has a plan that is so advanced, we cannot understand it.
ED ZACKARY!
futile to apply our limited sence of morality to the supreme being.
Quote from: bitterguy on July 08, 2007, 10:29:03 PM
I think God has a plan that is so advanced, we cannot understand it.
It is like that Butterfly effect theory that something as small as a butterfly flapping its wings can a hurricane half way around the world.
Just as the butterfly cannot understand that its wing flap has such repercussions, neither do we understand how Tammy Faye having cancer serves Gods ultimate plan.
It is like in JOB. Job does not know about God's talk with the Devil. Nor does he understand that his story will inspire others for posterity.
He just has t have faith that it serves a higher purpose.
Do you think the god of abraham and the bible, koran and torah is the god that has given us "the plan" you speak of (allude to, but cannot fanthom)? The one we "can't understand"? By the way; the butterfly flapping is from the TAO and much more acceptable than bible babble.
Quote
PLANT CITY, Florida (AP) -- A 9-year-old boy died after being run over by a church float in a Christmas parade.
Jordan Hayes was walking alongside the float, handing out beads and candy, when his foot was caught by a wheel and he fell under the float Friday night, said Police Chief Bill McDaniel.
Parade watchers shouted at the driver to back up, but the pickup truck pulling the Greater Heights Family Worship Center float ran over Jordan a second time. The driver is Jordan's cousin, authorities said.
Jordan, of Inverness, Florida, had been in Plant City visiting a brother.
"This is a tragedy that defies words," McDaniel said. "This was supposed to be a time of celebration and joy, but it has turned into a terrible tragedy."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/08/parade.death.ap/index.html
:rolleyes:
And the evidence just keeps rolling in.
Quote
A gunman opened fire Sunday in a training center for young Christian missionaries outside Denver, Colorado, killing two people and wounding two others, police said.
A gunman entered the dormitory in Arvada, Colorado, early Sunday.
The lone gunman walked into Youth with a Mission, began shooting and then ran away, according to a Susan Medina of the Arvada Police Department.
Peter Warren, the center's co-founder, said a man and a woman were killed. He said the woman was from Minnesota and the man was from Alaska. He did not provide their ages.
"These kids were like our kids, you know?" he told CNN affiliate KUSA. "It's just such a tragedy."
He said a memorial service for the two would likely be held Tuesday or Wednesday.
One person remained in critical condition, according to Peter Iliyn, the regional director for Youth With a Mission. He did not give information regarding the fourth person wounded in the attack.
The names of the victims were being withheld pending notification of family members, police said.
The gunman was described as a white male, about 20 years old, said Medina. He may be wearing glasses and a dark skull cap or beanie. He also may be sporting a beard or mustache, she said.
Police were using dogs in their search efforts and were hoping the fresh snow outside the building may help them track the suspect, Medina said.
It was unclear how many of those shot were staff members and students, Medina said.
Those not wounded were transported to an off-site location where police are interviewing them, she said.
About 45 people were in the building at the time of the shooting, she said.
The center is home to dozens of young people from all over the world who are training to be Christian missionaries, according to the center's Web site.
A "reverse 911" call went out to residents of the neighborhood to let them know a shooting suspect might be in the area, she said.
Medina urged residents to call police if they spot anything suspicious.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/09/colorado.shooting/index.html
:rolleyes:
Ole' Gawd is really handing out the holiday cheer to the flock this year.
Quote
GREENVILLE, S.C. - Sixteen students at Bob Jones University have or are suspected of having whooping cough, leading officials to end the fall semester about a week early, officials said.
The college ended its semester Friday and canceled several public events.
"Based on information from health officials we do not believe the illness will spread as our students go home to their families," university spokeswoman Carol Keirstead said.
Story continues below ↓advertisement
The outbreak appears to have started when one infected student returned to campus this fall, Keirstead said. Twelve students are confirmed to have the bacterial infection, while another four cases are suspected, Keirstead said.
An additional 158 students were tested, isolated and given antibiotics, while 1,200 students who showed no symptoms were given antibiotics as a precaution, she said.
"Our response with antibiotic treatment, the vaccinations and the isolation represents very aggressive precautionary measures and we think that very much contributed to keeping the numbers as low as they are," Keirstead said.
The private Christian university will require all 4,200 of its students have a current whooping cough vaccination before they can return next semester. Already about 2,000 of them have received the immunization, officials said.
Whooping cough, also called pertussis, is a highly contagious bacterial infection that starts with a mild cough and low fever and later turns into a chronic cough, followed by a "whooping" sound when the person inhales, according to the state Department of Health and Environmental Control.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22169547/
:rolleyes:
A lil' whooping cough under the tree for the flock of Bob Jones University.
Quote from: Locutus on December 09, 2007, 01:05:26 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22169547/
:rolleyes:
A lil' whooping cough under the tree for the flock of Bob Jones University.
Why would they need medical treatment? Aren't they lead through prayer, each and everyday?
I get a kick out of everyone bitching about God not doing this, or not doing that. Especially when they hate him, and don't want to see him to begin with.
If you are still clueless, grasp some concepts before you whine more. First this entire existence, our known universe is a popcorn fart in a whirlwind. It's here today and gone tomorrow in the whole scheme of things of eternity. Christ told us a big clue about it all. He asked a rhetorical question of which was more real, the things of this world which are toast in time or the things of spirit which are eternal. Duh, the things that are eternal are more real.
Keep that in mind. Then considered this is a fallen race, this isn't the garden of eden either. Consider also in the Lord's prayer that he prayed that the Father's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. He was asking that it be so, wasn't saying that it is. That is a major clue as well, God's will isn't always done here. In fact, if you look at scriptures they speak of how this is Satan's playground where he roams about looking for whom he may devour.
Breaking news people, this is a war zone, we are a fallen race and we are in enemy territory, and its an enemy that would love to off all of us thus hindering prophesy of the enemies demise. We got help, but aren't we a bunch of retards that can't pour urine out of a boot with the instructions on the bottom?
Ok, where is the miracles? How about even Jesus had problems doing miracles due to the UNBELIEF of those from his home town? We got assloads of unbelief everywhere you turn. We don't have to count the naysayers, we have enough unbelief right in the ranks of Christians to short circuit the works. Listen to missionaries that get out in the wilds away from "civilization" and hear some of their accounts.
If you are still bitching about God's will being done, try doing it. I would advise starting real simple and see if you can manage to work your way up. Even the simple stuff can be difficult. You might discover along the way that he wants his will to be done through his people. Why? It's training in an environment that is realistic, a testing ground. What for? Well, as pointed out, there is an enemy that needs contended with and another God is looking to have a family. He's weeding out the faithful from this failed antfarm.
I have asked God jokingly sort of in a way if there is in the next life or his kingdom any form of commerce and if so, I would like a copyright on a slogan. I want to put it on T-Shirts, Ball Caps, Bumperstickers or whatever is hip.
It's "What were we thinking?".
We die, we are off to some next level stuff. I have recently looked at death, and through faith it wasn't as scary as one thinks it is. We all do it at some time. It's just how did we face it? What did we do here? Did we prepare for that which is eternal?
Lastly, concerning other faiths. Judge not, lest you be judged. I know I am not God, I am nobody's judge and I don't want to be. I know my path and I have enough problems with it. I know I need to use my energy to focus on my path, and what I am suppose to do. I can share my path, but I can't walk someone else's for them. I can speak what I believe is true. If I may, I will be at peace with all people.
No, to me God doesn't suck. Sometimes this battleground does, but hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Boy this just keeps gettin' better and better:
Quote
Jeanne Assam, the female congregant who shot a gunman who entered New Life church Sunday, said she felt weak as she approached him because she had been fasting. "I prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide me, for the Holy Spirit to be with me," she said. "My hands weren't even shaking. I knew what I had to do."
...
Assam said, "I give the credit to God. And I say that very humbly. God was with me and the whole time I was behind cover -- this has got to be God, because of the firepower that [the gunman] had vs. what I had -- was God. I did not run away and I didn't think for a minute to run away, I just knew that I was given the assignment to end this before it got too much worse. I just prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide me."
:rolleyes:
Let's see you encounter a gunman blazing away and not have some thoughts about God.
The difference being that I wouldn't need a spirit anything to tell me what needs done. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on December 10, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
The difference being that I wouldn't need a spirit anything to tell me what needs done. :wink:
Maybe so, but what's the beef busting this woman's chops because she's reverent?
I'm busting chops because whenever a bad situation is made better, folks seem all to willing to credit a deity, when they really ought to use their noodle and question why a kind and merciful deity would have allowed that shit to happen in the first place.
There's probably something humankind could do about the shit before it happens, but those God-zealots keep blocking us with their religious objections!
Ain't that the truth! Kudos for that comment PH!
Quote from: Locutus on December 10, 2007, 09:40:47 PM
I'm busting chops because whenever a bad situation is made better, folks seem all to willing to credit a deity, when they really ought to use their noodle and question why a kind and merciful deity would have allowed that shit to happen in the first place.
"God/Jesus didn't stop the bad things from happening, Waaaaa!" Wow, for someone who doesn't believe in him, you people bitch and moan about him 10 times more than believers do when they don't get their way. Why don't you take 5 minutes and go bitch and moan about Buddah or Allah not dropping down out of a cloud and patching your flat tire next time instead of kicking Christians because they are meek dogs that don't bite your ass off when you kick them?
Well, the bad news for the Christians is this, it's not going to get any better for them. Asshats are going to be just what they are, asshats and they have found they can abuse Christians with impunity these days. The world really has went to shit and frankly I think it's about time.
The mystery of sin is coming about at full steam and guess what? Yeah, God's letting it, in fact I think he's loosed the throttle on it. I really hate to sound like these doom sayers that just annoy me to no end, but its all coming to a head. The tumblers have been falling in place for years and I have wonder what has held it all back for so long.
It's not your big fancy churches, or the big TV personalities, these I suspect are going down first. It's all pretty clear when you think about it. You people with your vulgarities, your thinly veiled hatred for Christians, this is just the beginning. Your hate will be made complete and you will not spend time with words, you will take action. And it will be a mob mentality for it already is, and it's becoming stylish.
Here's the kicker, it's God's will. You will be the fire to burn away the dross. God's people here have had it way too easy and have fallen slack, weak, carnal and faithless. You will purify his ranks. It is written, judgment comes first to the house of God.
So, ponder if you can, what really drives your deep hate. Of course you don't think you hate, ironic isn't it, your own self righteousness? Of course I wouldn't expect that to be seen either, it could be, and that in it's self is a mystery. Some vessels made for honor, some dishonor and some for destruction.
One thing you share with a LOT of Christians; you think God and this whole stuff is about La La Land, fuzzy bunnies and flowers and a big fat ticket to an easy train to a party in the sky. I guess you should count yourself lucky that you see something is amiss with this concept.
Yeah, I would say real lucky.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 01:13:09 AM
"God/Jesus didn't stop the bad things from happening, Waaaaa!" Wow, for someone who doesn't believe in him, you people bitch and moan about him 10 times more than believers do when they don't get their way. Why don't you take 5 minutes and go bitch and moan about Buddah or Allah not dropping down out of a cloud and patching your flat tire next time instead of kicking Christians because they are meek dogs that don't bite your ass off when you kick them?
I see from your posts in this thread that you're quite adept at misinterpreting the intentions (see page 1 of the thread), as well as manufacturing my supposed "bitching and moaning" about him. The question at hand is why he gets the credit for all the good (up to and including rescue from situations that he apparently should have been able to prevent), but gets a very undeserved "pass" on all of the nasty things that go on.
Case in point is the one from a couple of years ago where a woman's son was lost in the woods for well over 5 hours. The police eventually found him, and the quote was, "Gawd has blessed me by bringing my son back." Surely you can see how ridiculous that appears. If she'd been truly blessed by Gawd, then that shit wouldn't have happened to her in the first place.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 01:13:09 AM
Well, the bad news for the Christians is this, it's not going to get any better for them. Asshats are going to be just what they are, asshats and they have found they can abuse Christians with impunity these days. The world really has went to shit and frankly I think it's about time.
A more interesting discussion is why some Christians take questions such as the one I've posed in this thread as a personal affront and are left with responding with terms such as "Asshats" in the stead of cogent rebuttal and discussion. :wink:
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 01:13:09 AM
The mystery of sin is coming about at full steam and guess what? Yeah, God's letting it, in fact I think he's loosed the throttle on it. I really hate to sound like these doom sayers that just annoy me to no end, but its all coming to a head. The tumblers have been falling in place for years and I have wonder what has held it all back for so long.
Puhleeze! There is no mystery of sin, at least not any that can be ascribed to Jehovah. The concept of good versus evil predates the scribblings in your holy book as well as those of the Koran.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 01:13:09 AM
It's not your big fancy churches, or the big TV personalities, these I suspect are going down first. It's all pretty clear when you think about it. You people with your vulgarities, your thinly veiled hatred for Christians, this is just the beginning. Your hate will be made complete and you will not spend time with words, you will take action. And it will be a mob mentality for it already is, and it's becoming stylish.
Again, I think not. I have hatred for nobody. I just like asking questions. Given the questions that I ask, it appears that the Christians are the ones who are left with no cogent rebuttal to any of the questions that I choose to ask. No style, no mob mentality, just the facts Jack. :wink:
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 01:13:09 AM
Here's the kicker, it's God's will. You will be the fire to burn away the dross. God's people here have had it way too easy and have fallen slack, weak, carnal and faithless. You will purify his ranks. It is written, judgment comes first to the house of God.
So, ponder if you can, what really drives your deep hate. Of course you don't think you hate, ironic isn't it, your own self righteousness? Of course I wouldn't expect that to be seen either, it could be, and that in it's self is a mystery. Some vessels made for honor, some dishonor and some for destruction.
One thing you share with a LOT of Christians; you think God and this whole stuff is about La La Land, fuzzy bunnies and flowers and a big fat ticket to an easy train to a party in the sky. I guess you should count yourself lucky that you see something is amiss with this concept.
Yeah, I would say real lucky.
There is something quite amiss with the concept. Unfortunately, it'll be a long time before that concept (a personal God who really gives a rat's ass about you) is expunged from the collective thought of humanity. And yes, I do count myself lucky that I'm able to deal with my lot in life without invoking the concept of a deity, and the idea that he simply may be fucking with me for his own "will." :wink:
Let's see: No. Last I checked I should be properly classified as an equal opportunity "hater" of organized religion. Muslims, Hindu, Jew, Christian, Orthodox Jew, Catholicism, Et Al: Each exists only because it serves those who hold the reins of it's interpretation in their quest to amass personal wealth and power. Every single one of them.
No, I disagree that "God" is letting sin run rampant. "God" isn't letting anything happen. That's why "he" gave us "free-will" in part; to establish our own principals, morals, etc. Not to mention it is "his" escape clause to ensure he doesn't fiddle with the controls. "He" promised us "free-will" and we will have it.
No kind and loving entity would doom it's creation to burn for eternity just for a little procreation activity. But the personal wealth and power mongers would have us believing that spanking the monkey to old Joey Heathertons pictures puts you on greased rails to that fate. Horse-hockey!
And Muhammed? Come one now! God's messenger on earth? Really! :no:
As to the source of my distaste for organized religion, one only need to review history to see clearly documented the fact that religion has had it's greedy little fingers in each and every organized city, town, burg, farm, country, and other powerful regimes within every single period of recorded time. The Kings/Queens ruled the nobles, the nobles ruled the surfs and peasants, and behind the curtain we see the priests pulling the strings attached to the King/Queen, so they're controlling everybody. To amass personal wealth and power. And to save you some time and research, this same exact scenario continues to this very day and age, and has repeated throughout history.
Now, as for the Xtians in particular, My "tone-lock" on them can be simply exemplified within the discovery channels' "Lost Tomb Of Jesus" and the possibilities that whole thing presents. Ever since I was but a babe, I have had this whole story about His return to heaven being physical as well as spiritual pounded into my brain. Then along comes this little "discovery" and instead of intelligently awaiting the scientific testing the zealots blather on about it being a fake, blah, blah, blah. Just tossing aside scientific and statistical proof that Jesus was a man, with a wife and family, and had children. His wife was not a whore, but instead a high level priest within the early Xtian movement. (Now there are semantics to be argued here but I'm not going there right now).
This "theory" being backed by genetic testing would only serve to severely crack the personal power and wealth machine the "Good Ol' Boys" network has been living off of for centuries. But now mind you, they only have generations of humanity brainwashed into following their word like lemmings, so this crack won't be too bad at first. But they're already in damage control mode so I am sure by the time the testing is completed they'll be ready with some lame new story. . .
Now all of this is not to say that I am somehow against Jesus, because I do think a lot of what he had to say was good advice for humanity, and some advice many cultures would benefit greatly from. It may have even been of divine inspiration. But he was a man just as I am, it would seem. And the zealots are clamping the safe doors closed and living in denial. Before the proof's even in!
And then there's this "religious objection" malarkey being bandied about in order to stop things like cloning, and stem cell research. What are they doing exerting any kind of influence over science and government? If the creator didn't want us to discover something, and didn't want us to be like him even though he created us in his image, then don't you think that creator would make sure we couldn't go there? (Oh, there's that pesky little free-will thingy again). I mean the church has quashed soundly any scientific discoveries from an early period calling them heresy etc. and jailed the discoverers or worse. Come on, how does the fact the earth rotates around the sun,(Galileo) as do the other planets, make someone a heretic? Of course with the benefit of hindsight we see just how stupid that path of action was, but how is it any different today? How is what they are saying these practices are any different than throwing a scientist in jail centuries ago? And is the motivation any different today? (No!)
Rene Descartes (1596 -1650) started a revolution within thinking with his four rules for thinkers to follow:
1. The first was never to accept anything as true if you do not have evident knowledge of its truth: that is, carefully to avoid precipitate conclusions and preconceptions, and to include nothing more in our judgments than what presented itself to our mind so clearly and distinctly that we have no occasion to doubt it.
2.The second, to divide each of the difficulties we examine into as many parts as possible and as may be required in order to resolve them better.
3.Third, to direct our thoughts in an orderly manner. . .
4. and lastly, throughout to make emunerations so complete and reviews so comprehensive, that we can be sure to leave nothing out.(DM 2.18-19, p. 120)
This just a short 8 years after Galileo's condemnation for his Theory. Descartes, desiring to skirt the fate of Galileo displayed some shrewdness in including solicited critiques of his work within the context of the publication of his texts, which clearly endorsed Galileo's perspectives. In a letter to these theologians (also included) Descartes refers to "believers like ourselves"; he professes to be absolutely convinced that it is sufficient in these matters to rely upon scripture-but there is a problem. On one hand Gods existence is to be believed because it is taught in scripture. Scripture on the other hand, is to be believed because God is the source. . . ( and to this I'll add a third hand to this deformed being in saying that the scripture was written by humankind, and heavily edited by humankind, so how can one say with any reasonable certainty that what is in the scripture is the message God intended?)
Now it doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that this is a bit of circular logic, and a pretty tight circle it is! (Recall skeptics such as Sextus and Montaigne, who maintained that all our claims to "know" are either involved in such circular thinking or are strung out in an infinite regress). To break the circle Descartes thinks it necessary to prove rationally that God exists!
And with this ingenious little bit of baffling the church with BS, Descartes avoids Galileo's fate and still gets his point across.
Frederick Nietzsche postulated that life is the result of errors; human errors. "We have arranged for ourselves a world in which we can live - by posting bodies, lines, planes, causes and effects, motion and rest, form and content: without the articles of faith nobody could endure life. But that does not prove them! Life is no argument. The conditions of life might include error." Human beings as they are now have been formed by errors; we depend upon them.
Now if there is an iota of truth within any of this postulation by these great individuals, wouldn't it be that we cannot trust humankind to faithfully shepherd the word of God beyond that individual who experiences a divine inspiration? That humankind inherently is a greedy and needy life-form, and with its cunningness subject to bastardization and exercising of unwarranted literary license within the relation of information that could be (and is) utilized to direct the masses toward a common goal? Especially if said "common goal" is one that would produce great personal wealth and power?
Nah, I for one am firmly convinced that the big guy doesn't like all this bologna any more than I do. And he/she is sitting up there somewhere going, "finally!" :wink:
I am waiting for some profound revelation and enlightenment from you guys that gives you this empowerment to piss all over people's faiths, their coping mechanisms, and that which gives them comfort. You must being going to go personally to help ease people's sufferings, to comfort them in time of need to be shitting all over their current system.
You guys really must be something else to top what is currently working for these people. Wow, how could I have dared question you? Holy shit, stop the press, these guys have something to say that is going to shake the world up.
Well? Lets have it...?
*crickets*
Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."
Tsk tsk. It worked for Descartes but it isn't going to work for you! :wink: :smile:
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 04:25:24 AM
I am waiting for some profound revelation and enlightenment from you guys that gives you this empowerment to piss all over people's faiths, their coping mechanisms, and that which gives them comfort. You must being going to go personally to help ease people's sufferings, to comfort them in time of need to be shitting all over their current system.
You guys really must be something else to top what is currently working for these people. Wow, how could I have dared question you? Holy shit, stop the press, these guys have something to say that is going to shake the world up.
Well? Lets have it...?
*crickets*
Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."
Now now. Bluster belies confusion and/or fear. Let us break down just what it is you fear here and ask ourselves is this a reasonable expectation?
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I am waiting for some profound revelation and enlightenment from you guys that gives you this empowerment to piss all over people's faiths, their coping mechanisms, and that which gives them comfort.
Enlightenment takes "ages", and religion has had several ages with which to bolster it's mechanisms of self validating interpretation and circular logic; thus brainwashing or conditioning if you prefer, the population. A dozen nay-sayers does not an enlightenment achieve; but it is a start none-the-less; after all every new idea, theory, or reality has it's origins within a start. But does it make sense to expect immediate enlightenment, or is doing so realistic? Undoubtedly the answer to these questions is no, and is indicative of todays give it to me fast, give it to me now, expectation of on the spot gratification. (Something the modern day zealot counts upon, since this practice virtually guarantees "his/her" interpretation of the scripture/text will be automatically accepted).
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You must being going to go personally to help ease people's sufferings, to comfort them in time of need to be shitting all over their current system.
I hardly believe the words of two men, or their personal perspectives / theories would sway the "rock solid" belief system of the "foundational" Christian or any other religious person; zealot or not. Thus, this statement is indicative of blustering and sensationalism; hardly the words of one who is an astute practitioner of his/her chosen faith! Where's the beef?
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You guys really must be something else to top what is currently working for these people. Wow, how could I have dared question you? Holy shit, stop the press, these guys have something to say that is going to shake the world up.
Sarcasm is hardly an act of intelligent discussion of ideas or perspectives, and again can be perceived as stalling or "stone-walling". Questions on the other hand are the nectar of life for new ideas and perspectives. Instead of persecuting that which you do not fully understand, (as our religious leadership around the world is so adept at doing. Indicative of conditioning? You be the judge), why do you not ask questions or seek clarification?
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Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."
Here too we have reconsidered: the development of consciousness, the "spirit", is for us nothing less than a symptom of the relative imperfection of the organism; it means trying, groping, blundering-an exertion which uses up an unnecessary amount of nervous energy, and results in nothing substantive with which to demonstrate progression in mind, body, and/or thinking! In a word, drivel!
No one is professing to be wise here, but instead some are attempting to further new ideas and thoughts surrounding the plausibility of a centuries old theory and basic religious tenants that clearly contradict themselves and are contradicted by the physical record and science.
History clearly shows that the pontiff ordering Galileo's condemnation was an ass, yet the sheep of the day endorsed this action blindly; and history / science clearly support Galileo's perspectives to this very day.
Is humanity doomed to repeat its history via modern day condemnation of cloning and stem cell research? History and science clearly indicate that the probability of the answer being yes is overwhelming; due to humanity's conditioning by the religious powerful!
Even when science clearly will show that Jeebus was a mortal being, who lived, loved, reproduced, and died, the zealots will maintain it to be heresy and condemn those who work toward the conclusion or endorse it.
No wonder it is so easy for guys like David Koresh and Jimmy Jones to serve up their poison kool-aid!
Well, I have met God and seen his hand in miracles with my eyes. No razzle dazzle is going to bullshit me out of what I have seen and experienced first hand. Believe me, if I could bullshit myself out of believing, I would love to follow some self indulgence that knowing obstructs.
But wtf? You experience and see things and you are screwed for going back to old ways or to something else. Also you get sick and tired of people flipping you shit in their infinitely variable ways. It's like having assholes coming out of the wood work telling you cheese burgers don't exist when you work at McDonalds.
People don't believe me, I really don't lose much sleep over it. It all comes out in the wash. But when I see some poor broken hearted people crying in a pew, digging down for something to get them through their trials and miserable existence, I really don't have any time for smart asses who think because they read a few books in college and passed some pontificating idiot's class that they have the universe by the balls and can shit on people they deem are ignorant.
Here's some critical thinking for you; If people don't believe in God, why are they ripping on him? It's like not believing in Unicorns but saying "lawd...those unicorns SUCK...they never come out and let those idiot virgins ride them...I wish they would so they would get that out of their system and I could then screw at least one of them....those damn unicorns...I hate them...I can't wait for those things to die off".
If they don't believe in God, then it's stupid to be ripping on him. If they truly don't believe in God, then they are ripping on the people. They are indirectly in a chicken shit way dissing on the people who believe in him. No matter how you slice it, that is pretty screwed up, because only a few give it a bad name, and most its a system of comfort and coping and morals that keep them civilized.
Now if they aren't attacking the people with their hateful rhetoric, then who are they attacking? God? LOL... gee, isn't it kind of nuts to attack something you don't believe in?
You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 06:08:25 AM
Well, I have met God and seen his hand in miracles with my eyes. No razzle dazzle is going to bullshit me out of what I have seen and experienced first hand. Believe me, if I could bullshit myself out of believing, I would love to follow some self indulgence that knowing obstructs.
But wtf? You experience and see things and you are screwed for going back to old ways or to something else. Also you get sick and tired of people flipping you shit in their infinitely variable ways. It's like having assholes coming out of the wood work telling you cheese burgers don't exist when you work at McDonalds.
People don't believe me, I really don't lose much sleep over it. It all comes out in the wash. But when I see some poor broken hearted people crying in a pew, digging down for something to get them through their trials and miserable existence, I really don't have any time for smart asses who think because they read a few books in college and passed some pontificating idiot's class that they have the universe by the balls and can shit on people they deem are ignorant.
Here's some critical thinking for you; If people don't believe in God, why are they ripping on him? It's like not believing in Unicorns but saying "lawd...those unicorns SUCK...they never come out and let those idiot virgins ride them...I wish they would so they would get that out of their system and I could then screw at least one of them....those damn unicorns...I hate them...I can't wait for those things to die off".
If they don't believe in God, then it's stupid to be ripping on him. If they truly don't believe in God, then they are ripping on the people. They are indirectly in a chicken shit way dissing on the people who believe in him. No matter how you slice it, that is pretty screwed up, because only a few give it a bad name, and most its a system of comfort and coping and morals that keep them civilized.
Now if they aren't attacking the people with their hateful rhetoric, then who are they attacking? God? LOL... gee, isn't it kind of nuts to attack something you don't believe in?
You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.
First of all you are painting an entire thread of postings with a brush loaded with ignorance. You clearly are letting the forest hide the trees from you.
I never said I do not believe in "God" or a creator; in fact I said quite the opposite. If you ever take the time to digest the information posted in it's entirety you will see that this is so.
I
did say I hate organized religion, and I'll say it every time I can. It fleeces those who can least afford it, it provides nothing that isn't undertaken with profitability for the individual(s) controlling the temple, church, etc as the main objective., and provides a false sense of "security".
I've been the recipient of numerous "miraculous" events within my lifetime, and I would venture to say a few more are likely in store. This still doesn't change the fact that humankind has bastardized the "word of God", (the canonization process is proof enough for me), and has utilized it throughout history to accumulate personal wealth and power at the cost of the membership of the religion.
God doesn't require a multi million dollar house within which the people can worship him. He is perfectly happy for 2, or 3, or more to openly discuss him, and bring praise to him from a meadow, city dump, or private home. In fact I'd venture to say he/she pays a lot closer attention to those who worship in a similar manner. But if it goes against the concept of free will, all bets are off.
I view the lion's share of organized religious entities as nothing more than a legalized (according to the laws of humankind) version of a pyramid scheme. Get the membership roles up, preach the blessings to be obtained through tithing, house it all under the blanket of religious organization in order to shelter your burgeoning personal coffers. Rinse, lather, and repeat as necessary. (Oh, and be sure to scare the bejeebus out of them along the way with healthy doses of eternal fire and damnation). . .
Admittedly I am well off the beaten path in comparison to traditional accepted doctrines as interpreted by modern day theology majors, but here too I submit that said theologists are "above average" surrounding the conditioned state they are within when it concerns interpretation of scripture and religious tenets.
I've read no one taking any position that could be reasonably interpreted as dissing on God or xtians; but what I have read is some sound theories and perspectives that are backed up by the scientific evidence required to support their theories of perspectives. (Within this thread). Now I can tell you I myself have been witness to the heavy-handed, high pressure tactics utilized by the zealots in many organized religions.
The Latter Day Saints are notorious for such actions, and Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc., are right there too. How many times have you answered the door on a Saturday afternoon to be greeted by someone there to "save your eternal soul from damnation"?
How do they know I am eternally damned? They been spying on me, or are they making some very dangerous assumptions because they have never seen my face in their circular logic endorsing entity they like to call a place of worship?
Just as the xtian claims that the actions or words of a few are being unfairly attributed to the masses, so it is with some of the arguments presented herein, and your incorporation of assumption into interpretation of these perspectives. You hold all opposing perspectives accountable for the actions/opinions/statements of a few; false logic at best.
I have no objections to the undertaking of supportive actions for those who are down on their luck or need a hand up.( I believe these actions are in direct support of the teachings of Jesus, although I do not ascribe to them being a requirement of a creator). And thanks to the overzealousness of our last few leaders in the highest offices, morals need not be addressed via religion these days. The law makers have the market cornered in that area.
What you are calling "ripping on God", I see as providing objective evidence to refute the centuries old claims and beliefs of an antiquated religious system. Evidence supporting the fact that religion is nothing more than a tool utilized by those in control to produce personal wealth and power. Evidence supporting the fact that humankind has bastardized religion across the boards for this very same purpose.
I do not begrudge you your life experiences surrounding what you say are miracles. I cannot for I have already stated that I have received some of these very miracles myself. But I am strongly opposed to the idea of organized religion, and their "in your face" my way or the fire-way methodology that requires blind faith and unearned trust that what the leadership of these entities is telling you is the creators intention.
And I certainly am not attempting to shit upon others, nor do I hold their perspectives in any way lower to anyone else's. Rather I am questioning the status quo, and recognizing the fallacies most of these practices are based upon are either unsustainable via scientific methodology, or just outright lies constructed to yield more power and wealth for the zealots.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 11, 2007, 07:36:19 AM
First of all you are painting an entire thread of postings with a brush loaded with ignorance. You clearly are letting the forest hide the trees from you.
I never said I do not believe in "God" or a creator; in fact I said quite the opposite. If you ever take the time to digest the information posted in it's entirety you will see that this is so.
I did say I hate organized religion, and I'll say it every time I can. It fleeces those who can least afford it, it provides nothing that isn't undertaken with profitability for the individual(s) controlling the temple, church, etc as the main objective., and provides a false sense of "security".
I've been the recipient of numerous "miraculous" events within my lifetime, and I would venture to say a few more are likely in store. This still doesn't change the fact that humankind has bastardized the "word of God", (the canonization process is proof enough for me), and has utilized it throughout history to accumulate personal wealth and power at the cost of the membership of the religion.
God doesn't require a multi million dollar house within which the people can worship him. He is perfectly happy for 2, or 3, or more to openly discuss him, and bring praise to him from a meadow, city dump, or private home. In fact I'd venture to say he/she pays a lot closer attention to those who worship in a similar manner. But if it goes against the concept of free will, all bets are off.
I view the lion's share of organized religious entities as nothing more than a legalized (according to the laws of humankind) version of a pyramid scheme. Get the membership roles up, preach the blessings to be obtained through tithing, house it all under the blanket of religious organization in order to shelter your burgeoning personal coffers. Rinse, lather, and repeat as necessary. (Oh, and be sure to scare the bejeebus out of them along the way with healthy doses of eternal fire and damnation). . .
Admittedly I am well off the beaten path in comparison to traditional accepted doctrines as interpreted by modern day theology majors, but here too I submit that said theologists are "above average" surrounding the conditioned state they are within when it concerns interpretation of scripture and religious tenets.
I've read no one taking any position that could be reasonably interpreted as dissing on God or xtians; but what I have read is some sound theories and perspectives that are backed up by the scientific evidence required to support their theories of perspectives. (Within this thread). Now I can tell you I myself have been witness to the heavy-handed, high pressure tactics utilized by the zealots in many organized religions.
The Latter Day Saints are notorious for such actions, and Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc., are right there too. How many times have you answered the door on a Saturday afternoon to be greeted by someone there to "save your eternal soul from damnation"?
How do they know I am eternally damned? They been spying on me, or are they making some very dangerous assumptions because they have never seen my face in their circular logic endorsing entity they like to call a place of worship?
Just as the xtian claims that the actions or words of a few are being unfairly attributed to the masses, so it is with some of the arguments presented herein, and your incorporation of assumption into interpretation of these perspectives. You hold all opposing perspectives accountable for the actions/opinions/statements of a few; false logic at best.
I have no objections to the undertaking of supportive actions for those who are down on their luck or need a hand up.( I believe these actions are in direct support of the teachings of Jesus, although I do not ascribe to them being a requirement of a creator). And thanks to the overzealousness of our last few leaders in the highest offices, morals need not be addressed via religion these days. The law makers have the market cornered in that area.
What you are calling "ripping on God", I see as providing objective evidence to refute the centuries old claims and beliefs of an antiquated religious system. Evidence supporting the fact that religion is nothing more than a tool utilized by those in control to produce personal wealth and power. Evidence supporting the fact that humankind has bastardized religion across the boards for this very same purpose.
I do not begrudge you your life experiences surrounding what you say are miracles. I cannot for I have already stated that I have received some of these very miracles myself. But I am strongly opposed to the idea of organized religion, and their "in your face" my way or the fire-way methodology that requires blind faith and unearned trust that what the leadership of these entities is telling you is the creators intention.
And I certainly am not attempting to shit upon others, nor do I hold their perspectives in any way lower to anyone else's. Rather I am questioning the status quo, and recognizing the fallacies most of these practices are based upon are either unsustainable via scientific methodology, or just outright lies constructed to yield more power and wealth for the zealots.
Hmm...this is where you differentiate yourself from the rest of this pack. the thread is titled "God Sucks" and is a religious troll thread.
I get your drift and I hate organized big business religion with a passion. I call it Fast Food Jesus. "Welcome to Church, may I take your order please?"
"We would like some worship, a sermon and a blessing."
"Would you like a hot apple pie with that?"
"NO!"
"That will be 10% of your income and an offering, pull around to the next window please."
The whole thing with Jesus was to cut out the bullshit middleman. Under the Law, man screwed it up with the priesthood until it was so corrupt it was sickening. Jesus went batshit on them in the temple and trashed the place. That didn't go over too well with the religious establishment of the day, so they plotted to off him and got it done.
If you ever noticed, but Jesus didn't tear into the average sinner, he cut them some major slack. The one's he tore a new asshole in was the religious leaders of the day. He was always busting their balls, and they hated him for it, and wanted to pown him for it, but he would just bust a move and be out of there.
They, the religious leaders of the time were doing jacked up stuff to the average person even back then and he let them know they were majorly screwed in the afterlife for it.
Behind it was a spirit of evil. And yet today, that spirit is still around. If you think the big evil is in some of the low orders of stuff like wiccans, devil worshipers, etc, think again. It comes as a minister of righteousness, disguising it's self and moving right into the church.
I have seen stuff chillingly evil in church. I had to stop going, I seen too much and it disturbed me to the point it was futile to go. When I stopped going ironically was when I had some of the greatest epiphanies of my spiritual life. I discovered I didn't need someone to feed me like a baby bird, I could get what I needed directly from the source.
Nothing like setting on one's front porch, bummed out about how screwy church was and having God show up. "Ah...whatcha doin' here, God?" "They didn't want me there either..so lets hang out."
Quote from: Locutus on December 10, 2007, 09:40:47 PM
I'm busting chops because whenever a bad situation is made better, folks seem all to willing to credit a deity, when they really ought to use their noodle and question why a kind and merciful deity would have allowed that shit to happen in the first place.
why does it bother you if someone wants to give credit to God or the wall?.............i thought you was ALL about freedoms?
you get "bothered" cause lex used "Asshats"...but you use terms like "jeesbus" and poke fun at Christians "intelligence" quite often.......just an observation... :wink: :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 11, 2007, 11:14:10 AM
why does it bother you if someone wants to give credit to God or the wall?.............i thought you was ALL about freedoms?
you get "bothered" cause lex used "Asshats"...but you use terms like "jeesbus" and poke fun at Christians "intelligence" quite often.......just an observation... :wink: :yes:
Quite the contrary HH, I'm not bothered by anything. I'm simply pointing out the silliness of it all. Why credit a deity with the good stuff, but give him a pass on the bad stuff? After all, a supposed loving deity should have the ability to have put a stop to all of the crap described previously on this thread and then some.
To invoke a deity, be it the god of the bible and koran, isn't any different, or less silly, than other antiquated beliefs like Prometheus stealing fire from the gods to give it to man.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 06:08:25 AM
Well, I have met God and seen his hand in miracles with my eyes. No razzle dazzle is going to bullshit me out of what I have seen and experienced first hand. Believe me, if I could bullshit myself out of believing, I would love to follow some self indulgence that knowing obstructs.
But wtf? You experience and see things and you are screwed for going back to old ways or to something else. Also you get sick and tired of people flipping you shit in their infinitely variable ways. It's like having assholes coming out of the wood work telling you cheese burgers don't exist when you work at McDonalds.
But this is the typical reaction is it not? I start a thread called God Sucks by pointing out that it's quite clear that any deity, if he exists at all, is clearly no longer involved in the whole "human" thing. The next thing we know is that we have Xtians taking it as a personal affront rather than pondering the question as it was put forth.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 06:08:25 AM
People don't believe me, I really don't lose much sleep over it. It all comes out in the wash. But when I see some poor broken hearted people crying in a pew, digging down for something to get them through their trials and miserable existence, I really don't have any time for smart asses who think because they read a few books in college and passed some pontificating idiot's class that they have the universe by the balls and can shit on people they deem are ignorant.
Then perhaps we don't have a common frame of reference here. I've said before, and I'll say it again. Book learning, and I'm not talkin' about the "good book," has consequences. First and foremost among those consequences is expulsion from ignorance.
Quote from: lex on December 11, 2007, 06:08:25 AM
Here's some critical thinking for you; If people don't believe in God, why are they ripping on him? It's like not believing in Unicorns but saying "lawd...those unicorns SUCK...they never come out and let those idiot virgins ride them...I wish they would so they would get that out of their system and I could then screw at least one of them....those damn unicorns...I hate them...I can't wait for those things to die off".
If they don't believe in God, then it's stupid to be ripping on him. If they truly don't believe in God, then they are ripping on the people. They are indirectly in a chicken shit way dissing on the people who believe in him. No matter how you slice it, that is pretty screwed up, because only a few give it a bad name, and most its a system of comfort and coping and morals that keep them civilized.
Now if they aren't attacking the people with their hateful rhetoric, then who are they attacking? God? LOL... gee, isn't it kind of nuts to attack something you don't believe in?
You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.
I'm ripping on the god concept. If you see the post to HH above, I find belief in that an unholy ghost guided the woman to shoot the attacker equally as ridiculous as the polytheistic beliefs of the ancient Greeks and Romans. There isn't a shred of evidence that makes your belief in your god and his existence any more credible than the beliefs that the ancient Greeks and Romans had in theirs. If you have some to offer up, please do so.
It also appears that the holy ghosty sucks too in that he wasn't skillful enough to actually guide her in dispatching the sick bastard, and he was left to off himself.
Quote
(CNN) -- Matthew Murray, the man who police say shot and killed four people at two separate locations in Colorado on Sunday, died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, the coroner's office said Tuesday.
art.murrayireport1.jpg
A former roommate took this photo of Matthew Murray performing in a 2002 Christmas program.
"The death of Matthew Murray has been ruled a suicide," the El Paso County Coroner's Office said in a statement.
"It should be noted that he was struck multiple times by the security officer, which put him down. He then fired a single round killing himself," the statement said.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/11/colorado.shootings/index.html
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 11, 2007, 04:45:33 PM
But this is the typical reaction is it not? I start a thread called God Sucks by pointing out that it's quite clear that any deity, if he exists at all, is clearly no longer involved in the whole "human" thing. The next thing we know is that we have Xtians taking it as a personal affront rather than pondering the question as it was put forth.
No longer involved? I would venture there are millions of people that would disagree wholeheartedly with that statement. You start a thread titled "God Sucks" and you don't expect Christians to take offense at it? You go start a thread like that in the middle east if you have the balls and say Allah sucks, if you survive, come back and let us know how it all worked out.
What is there to ponder? You are being a trolling prick with someone's faith, not a lot to ponder there.
Quote
Then perhaps we don't have a common frame of reference here. I've said before, and I'll say it again. Book learning, and I'm not talkin' about the "good book," has consequences. First and foremost among those consequences is expulsion from ignorance.
What I hate about college grads over the years I have had to deal with them is the complete lack of common sense a lot of them display. I put NO faith in degrees and I judge people by their skills and talents. I have been to college, I am NOT impressed. They pass retards through it, and they have retards teaching it.
If you want to use "book learning" as your basis to bash kooks, then you are in trouble. Quantum Physicists are at the higher end of the food chain and they are "the snake handling Pentecostals of the science community. Have you ever heard some of the insane bullshit that comes out of their lectures and of their work?
They are a prime example of what happens when you got eggheads in a university trying to come up with new reasons to bullshit ignorant facility into justifying their tenure and giving them any form of money.
"Bob is going to microwave a burrito while singing Christmas Carols in French and we will formulate just how he's effecting the subatomic particles of the cheese in the burrito with his cheery thought waves."
*points to white board with mathematical scrawling from a drunken lab chimp*
"BRAVO!! You cheeky fellows will put our University on the map with your cheesy burrito caroling. Here's a check boys...see you at the next budget hearing!"
Expulsion from ignorance? More like plumbing new depths of it via arrogance.
Quote
I'm ripping on the god concept. If you see the post to HH above, I find belief in that an unholy ghost guided the woman to shoot the attacker equally as ridiculous as the polytheistic beliefs of the ancient Greeks and Romans. There isn't a shred of evidence that makes your belief in your god and his existence any more credible than the beliefs that the ancient Greeks and Romans had in theirs. If you have some to offer up, please do so.
No problem there pal, as soon as FedEx delivers my Acme Bizwhappomatic-Nutonian-Automatic-Self Cleaning-God Catcher & Egg Cooker I will be sure to take some vid of it in action and post it on YouTube.
The proof is in the pudding, you can see him in those that love him.
Now I remember why I don't much read this thread. It's way too long winded. And lex, you aren't making any points by continuously calling names. I think this could have been a useful debate on discovering why people believe the way they do. Instead it looks too much to me like nothing more than attack and defend.
I find it interesting that someone would attempt to support belief as "common sense", when believing in without proof that it exists, doesn't pass the common sense test. If you wanna believe based on faith or whatever it is that you cite, then fine, but it's definitely not common sense. I've seen extremely despicable and vile acts from some very people who "love" God. I know, I know, they're not real Christians, but emotionally, they "love" God. I don't think the proof is there. :no:
I like the original question in this thread. Why is it that people attribute what's considered good to God, but ignore the fact that if there is a God then he's obviously allowing bad things to happen? Why is that? Where are the prayers of gratitude when a hurricane wipes out half a state? Or do they think that all bad is a product of evil? That would mean that evil is stronger than God since he should have the power to trump that. It seems like there's a lot to reconcile w/that question and not enough reasonable answers...
Quote from: PIYA on December 12, 2007, 10:36:02 AM
I find it interesting that someone would attempt to support belief as "common sense", when believing in without proof that it exists, doesn't pass the common sense test.
But then, on the other hand, I "believe" in String Theory.
Now if you have ever studied some of the principles of that, you will certainly question the "common sense" of it all. Indeed! Some of it is downright insane!
Sorry, off topic, but I think common sense is overrated.
would you kill one innocent child to rid the world of all forms of cancer?
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 04:47:45 AM
No longer involved? I would venture there are millions of people that would disagree wholeheartedly with that statement. You start a thread titled "God Sucks" and you don't expect Christians to take offense at it? You go start a thread like that in the middle east if you have the balls and say Allah sucks, if you survive, come back and let us know how it all worked out.
What is there to ponder? You are being a trolling prick with someone's faith, not a lot to ponder there.
LMAO!! More name calling offered up in the stead of cogent rebuttal. Since you don't put much stock in book learnin', you'll probably not put much stock in the fallacy of Appeal to Popularity (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html).
The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:
1. Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
2. Therefore X is true.
The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim.
More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim.
Sorry lex, but your name calling and emotions don't hold water here. And don't think I didn't notice the swipe at Islam there as well. You're all to willing to paint them and their beliefs as foolish while ignoring the fact that based on evidence, your beliefs are just as foolish as theirs.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 04:47:45 AM
What I hate about college grads over the years I have had to deal with them is the complete lack of common sense a lot of them display. I put NO faith in degrees and I judge people by their skills and talents. I have been to college, I am NOT impressed. They pass retards through it, and they have retards teaching it.
If you want to use "book learning" as your basis to bash kooks, then you are in trouble. Quantum Physicists are at the higher end of the food chain and they are "the snake handling Pentecostals of the science community. Have you ever heard some of the insane bullshit that comes out of their lectures and of their work?
They are a prime example of what happens when you got eggheads in a university trying to come up with new reasons to bullshit ignorant facility into justifying their tenure and giving them any form of money.
"Bob is going to microwave a burrito while singing Christmas Carols in French and we will formulate just how he's effecting the subatomic particles of the cheese in the burrito with his cheery thought waves."
*points to white board with mathematical scrawling from a drunken lab chimp*
"BRAVO!! You cheeky fellows will put our University on the map with your cheesy burrito caroling. Here's a check boys...see you at the next budget hearing!"
Expulsion from ignorance? More like plumbing new depths of it via arrogance.
Wow! No faith in, or respect for, college, it professors, and it's graduates, eh? Well I guess there's no hope of you ever seeing past an omnipotent being that simply farted out the universe and still is actively engaged in the lives of his people, regardless of the fact that if you used some real common sense, you'd see that the god you supposedly believe in is the real prick based on some of things cited earlier in this thread.
You'll also continue to go through life believing in the scribblings of ancient men, the determinations of men as to what eventually landed in the bible by The Council of Nicea, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea) things that go bump in the night, yada, yada.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 04:47:45 AM
No problem there pal, as soon as FedEx delivers my Acme Bizwhappomatic-Nutonian-Automatic-Self Cleaning-God Catcher & Egg Cooker I will be sure to take some vid of it in action and post it on YouTube.
The proof is in the pudding, you can see him in those that love him.
Proof such as this? :wink:
Quote from: lex
You are being a trolling prick with someone's faith, not a lot to ponder there.
Quote from: lex
Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."
Quote from: lex
You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.
How come I went to school. Graduated. And never learned all this fallacy stuff I've been hearing about for the last 2 1/2 years. What class taught this?
Quote from: pariann on December 12, 2007, 12:34:43 PM
How come I went to school. Graduated. And never learned all this fallacy stuff I've been hearing about for the last 2 1/2 years. What class taught this?
They're typically taught in logic classes. Where I went to school, they were under the auspices of the philosophy department.
Oh. I only took Psychology.
Quote from: Locutus on December 12, 2007, 12:00:01 PM
LMAO!! More name calling offered up in the stead of cogent rebuttal.
Obviously you have some reading comprehension problems, LMAO.
Quote
The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim. More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim.
Sorry kiddo, these people I would imagine have had experiences that have lead them to believe. I know you would like to believe that Christians are all just a bunch of ignorant idiots and you dig elevating yourself and your petty "book learning" up above them. This arrogant bigotry really shows a lot about your character and indeed calls into question the quality of this "book learning" you hold so dear.
Again, I am sorry God can't be measured or exposed with our primitive science tools so that it can be shown to people to include the truly dim, but the whole thing is about faith, or perhaps a more simplistic explanation, trust. Without it, you will never see him, or even know where to look.
As far as why "shit happens" you been given reasonable explanations by me repeatedly, but you ignore them, which goes back to my saying, this really just a bash Christians thread. It started off trying to bait HH and you didn't get much satisfaction from him.
Quote
Sorry lex, but your name calling and emotions don't hold water here. And don't think Ididn't notice the swipe at Islam there as well. You're all to willing to paint them and their beliefs as foolish while ignoring the fact that based on evidence, your beliefs are just as foolish as theirs.
Gee, whining about name calling after you start off with the thread name calling and insulting people? ROFLMAO!
Insulting Islam? More reading comprehension problems, and digging desperately for some ammo to boot, tsk tsk.
QuoteWow! No faith in, or respect for, college, it professors, and it's graduates, eh?
Not really, they will obviously hire and pass about anyone. It's what you do with the "education" that counts. It's a piece of paper that MIGHT get you in the door, but if you suck you will not last. Hence the college grads flipping burgers
Quote
Proof such as this? :wink:
Hmm..Good Christian, bad Christian left for the day...I am a different kind of Christian.
So..I can be a little rough when you try to punk down my faith.
Consider my love like this, if you said these sort of insulting things to my face, I wouldn't off you and dispose of your body, I would let you slide and walk away. Might even pray for your goofy ass later, and mine for being so pisT.
Quote from: awol on December 12, 2007, 10:43:46 AM
would you kill one innocent child to rid the world of all forms of cancer?
Welllllll................god supposedly allowed mankind to kill his only son (or a part of himself, if i get the trinity thing right) in order to cleanse the world of sin.
And we all know how that's working out, right?
Quote from: awol on December 12, 2007, 10:43:46 AM
would you kill one innocent child to rid the world of all forms of cancer?
I'm sorry, but it's a pretty illogical situation. How is one innocent child related to all the cancer in the world?
Without more info, lots of it I would have to say no because frankly if offing a kid would get rid of it all, then there has to be a hack around it.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Obviously you have some reading comprehension problems, LMAO.
I don't believe so. Pariann even mentioned your name calling in a previous post as well.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Sorry kiddo, these people I would imagine have had experiences that have lead them to believe. I know you would like to believe that Christians are all just a bunch of ignorant idiots and you dig elevating yourself and your petty "book learning" up above them. This arrogant bigotry really shows a lot about your character and indeed calls into question the quality of this "book learning" you hold so dear.
People have all sorts of experiences all the time. It doesn't go any farther to support the reality of a deity. The human mind is a powerful thing. You get a bunch of people together who all think they've experienced something similar, and one can convince themselves that just about anything is true regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Again, I am sorry God can't be measured or exposed with our primitive science tools so that it can be shown to people to include the truly dim, but the whole thing is about faith, or perhaps a more simplistic explanation, trust. Without it, you will never see him, or even know where to look.
That's why I'm fact based, and not faith based. I'm unwilling to disengage a large portion of my brain in order to conform to what the majority believes in. If everyone were to disengage their brains, we would still believe that the earth is flat.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
As far as why "shit happens" you been given reasonable explanations by me repeatedly, but you ignore them, which goes back to my saying, this really just a bash Christians thread. It started off trying to bait HH and you didn't get much satisfaction from him.
But your explanations aren't reasonable. This thread is replete with examples of people of faith getting the middle finger from their god. It happens over and over again. My question remains unanswered.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Gee, whining about name calling after you start off with the thread name calling and insulting people? ROFLMAO!
You'd better go back and read the thread again and cite one place where I called anyone a name. I don't think the name calling started until you showed up. I used general terms, but I didn't call any member a name. :wink:
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Not really, they will obviously hire and pass about anyone. It's what you do with the "education" that counts. It's a piece of paper that MIGHT get you in the door, but if you suck you will not last. Hence the college grads flipping burgers
Then you must have had a different educational experience than I did. I busted my rear end to get through college and the curriculum was very rigorous.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Hmm..Good Christian, bad Christian left for the day...I am a different kind of Christian.
So..I can be a little rough when you try to punk down my faith.
Consider my love like this, if you said these sort of insulting things to my face, I wouldn't off you and dispose of your body, I would let you slide and walk away. Might even pray for your goofy ass later, and mine for being so pisT.
I don't mind if you're rough. This is the Rough House after all. I wish you'd just offer up something with a little more meat to it in your responses.
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:51:19 PM
I'm sorry, but it's a pretty illogical situation. How is one innocent child related to all the cancer in the world?
Without more info, lots of it I would have to say no because frankly if offing a kid would get rid of it all, then there has to be a hack around it.
exactly.
perhaps the 'evil' we see in the world now prevents future catastrophy.
Quote from: awol on December 12, 2007, 03:17:55 PM
exactly.
perhaps the 'evil' we see in the world now prevents future catastrophy.
Hmmmmmm.....I'll have to think about that for a while.......could be.....I don't know yet.
Why do we get the middle finger from God? If you are wanting a spiritual explanation here it is, again. It's the truth as I know it, from what I have gleaned over the years, mostly from asking God "WTF?".
First and foremost, this is a spiritual battlefield and it's enemy territory. God's will isn't always done here by us, most obviously. The planet pretty much runs on it's on set of preset rules and if we are retarded and get in it's way, we get crushed by nature.
It's all a testing grounds for us, and a battlefield for both us and the spirit realm. But it's all just a fraction of a blink of an eye in the scheme of eternity, if you get greased in some screwy way though it, it's no big deal you will be judged accordingly.
Frankly in the scheme of things in the big picture our existence is small potatoes, so FFS get it right if you can at least try. Give it a hearty swing, fight till the very end and die satisfied.
We are a fallen race, we are rotten at our core from the fall. We trash each other and all of creation around us as we spread like vermin. There is a purity to God that restricts him from handling us, we have to be cleansed of our evil and he's put forth measures to do this. We don't cooperate with these measures with a damn.
Miracles? I have seen them, bonafided according to Hoyle miracles, and yet too, I have asked for one and got *crickets*, the answer was not no...but Fuck No!! Yeah, it pissed me off and I bitched to high heaven about it. But in the end, I trusted the driving to the Lord. I am not God, I can't see the big picture of things.
In the end, stuff happens and there are so many reasons or lack there of for it, and sometimes it doesn't make an ounce of sense and I just want to scream. But nobody promised me a perfect world, and though I wish it was, who am I to bitch that it isn't?
I know who I am though, and what side I am on. I'm not forgetting what I have seen, nor am I forgetting what I know. I don't have the time nor inclination to bullshit someone, I have enough on my plate to worry about.
On thing to ponder, in the old testament some prophet called upon the Lord for some help and sat down by a river for 30 days until he got the help he wanted. I believe it was an Arch Angel that showed up at last and the prophet was sort of bitch about how long it took for him to get there.
The angel replied that he was dispatched the moment he started praying, but he was battling with the Prince of Persia and it took him that long to get away from him. AND, he had to help this prophet and get back to fighting him. ...So don't dick around dude...lol..wtf do you want of me...(there I go paraphrasing horribly again).
30 days? For a main prophet? Hmm...How's that fit in with our Fast Food Jesus concepts?
^----- Now that has meat. I don't believe much of it obviously, since not a bit of it can be proven, but if it works for you, more power to you. ;D
I have been sent from above/below/beyond/inside/outside with the following F.A.Q., signed and authenticated by: God, Satan, Buddha, Muhammad, Allah, the Anti-Christ, Hitler, Your Mom, and some other folks:
Legend: for simplicity's sake, the term "God" will be associated with your deity [or lackthereof] of preference.
1. If God is real, why does he let children and innocent people die?
Answer: Well, God does that because he hates you. Deep down inside, he thinks your a little shit and does this to get his revenge on you. He knows that "Bob" would really get pissed off at the idea of starvation, so he drops Africa out of the sky and tells them to breed like rabbits until there are more babies screaming than there are fish in the sea. This "annoying" effect is unique and visible to each earthling in different ways. For you, it might be hunger, for your neighbor, it might be cloudy days, and to gay folks, it might be AIDS. God has an endless repertoire of divine ass beating in store for each of you, so suck it up: he's going to win.
Summary: God thinks you are a dick.
2. Why are Christians such assholes sometimes?
Answer: God is working through them to accomplish his goal, as stated in the previous answer. The "annoying" Christians that seem to drop in and out of your life are simply manifestations of the above act.
Summary: God still thinks you are a dick.
3. Which God is the "real" God?
Answer: The one that gets you out of it, when you say "if you get me out of this, I'll do anything". Subsequently, if no God has ever done this for you, it's more than likely because he considers you to be non-marketable as a follower. You have to have something to bring to the table in the first place. People most affected by this phenomenon are usually exceptionally: ugly, old, young, black, white, yellow, mexican, fat, skinny, unemployed, overworked, and jewish. If you feel you have been looked-over in error, and that you are actually a potential valuable worshiper to said deity, the following appeal process exists.
Step 1: kill yourself (for ideas on "how", try www.google.com)
Step 2:upon arrival at after-life destination, plead your case.
Step 3: if your case is valid, expect to be sent back.
Exception: If your case is invalid, your life was probably not worth living anyway; deal with it
Summary: There is no sure way to be sure without suicide.
4. My life is miserable, why would God even let me be born?
Answer: It was an accident. What actually happened was after your conception, God fully planned for you to be aborted. Your cheap-ass Mom circumvented God's wishes by buying a discount abortion. The result is you are now miserable. If you find yourself in this situation, you may be able to get the "justice" you feel you deserve, by executing your birth-mother. Afterwards, you might consider suicide, to avoid you wasting in more of our time with your half-cocked existence.
Summary: You are the product of a partially effective abortion.
5. Does God hate gay people?
Answer: Yes. However, he does so with an equal level of hate, non-dependent on that persons degree off radiated gayness. The same degree of hate is usually directed at their "straight" counterparts [causing this to be seen as a non-issue].
Answer: Yes.
I hope this has shed valuable light on your religious queries. If you feel there were questions not included in this F.A.Q. that should have been, please put them in a reply post.
:lol: :sarcasm:
:biggrin: :biggrin:
That's great!
:welcome: :jc: :biggrin:
That's hilarious! :yes:
Quote from: fitgeek24 on December 13, 2007, 04:06:59 PM
I have been sent from above/below/beyond/inside/outside with the following F.A.Q., signed and authenticated by: God, Satan, Buddha, Muhammad, Allah, the Anti-Christ, Hitler, Your Mom, and some other folks:
Legend: for simplicity's sake, the term "God" will be associated with your deity [or lackthereof] of preference.
1. If God is real, why does he let children and innocent people die?
Answer: Well, God does that because he hates you. Deep down inside, he thinks your a little shit and does this to get his revenge on you. He knows that "Bob" would really get pissed off at the idea of starvation, so he drops Africa out of the sky and tells them to breed like rabbits until there are more babies screaming than there are fish in the sea. This "annoying" effect is unique and visible to each earthling in different ways. For you, it might be hunger, for your neighbor, it might be cloudy days, and to gay folks, it might be AIDS. God has an endless repertoire of divine ass beating in store for each of you, so suck it up: he's going to win.
Summary: God thinks you are a dick.
2. Why are Christians such assholes sometimes?
Answer: God is working through them to accomplish his goal, as stated in the previous answer. The "annoying" Christians that seem to drop in and out of your life are simply manifestations of the above act.
Summary: God still thinks you are a dick.
3. Which God is the "real" God?
Answer: The one that gets you out of it, when you say "if you get me out of this, I'll do anything". Subsequently, if no God has ever done this for you, it's more than likely because he considers you to be non-marketable as a follower. You have to have something to bring to the table in the first place. People most affected by this phenomenon are usually exceptionally: ugly, old, young, black, white, yellow, mexican, fat, skinny, unemployed, overworked, and jewish. If you feel you have been looked-over in error, and that you are actually a potential valuable worshiper to said deity, the following appeal process exists.
Step 1: kill yourself (for ideas on "how", try www.google.com)
Step 2:upon arrival at after-life destination, plead your case.
Step 3: if your case is valid, expect to be sent back.
Exception: If your case is invalid, your life was probably not worth living anyway; deal with it
Summary: There is no sure way to be sure without suicide.
4. My life is miserable, why would God even let me be born?
Answer: It was an accident. What actually happened was after your conception, God fully planned for you to be aborted. Your cheap-ass Mom circumvented God's wishes by buying a discount abortion. The result is you are now miserable. If you find yourself in this situation, you may be able to get the "justice" you feel you deserve, by executing your birth-mother. Afterwards, you might consider suicide, to avoid you wasting in more of our time with your half-cocked existence.
Summary: You are the product of a partially effective abortion.
5. Does God hate gay people?
Answer: Yes. However, he does so with an equal level of hate, non-dependent on that persons degree off radiated gayness. The same degree of hate is usually directed at their "straight" counterparts [causing this to be seen as a non-issue].
Answer: Yes.
I hope this has shed valuable light on your religious queries. If you feel there were questions not included in this F.A.Q. that should have been, please put them in a reply post.
Does retardation mean God created you while he/she was stoned?
Also, if God is so pissed at us, why doesn't he just wipe us out with a comet or something? Is it the systematic human suffering that gets him/her off?
Quote from: IYT on December 14, 2007, 08:57:03 AM
Also, if God is so pissed at us, why doesn't he just wipe us out with a comet or something? Is it the systematic human suffering that gets him/her off?
I thought I answered all the "Why's" in the F.A.Q. Just to re-iterate.
Question: Why does blah blah..whine whine..blah blah...happen to me/dad/mommy and why can't I...etc?
Answer: God still thinks your a dick.
As a Gonzo journalist, you should know you can never answer all the why's. So God thinks we're dicks...my question: why is systematic torture of humans is preferred by God as opposed to instantaneous obliteration? Does God get off on this revenge? Why wouldn't he just kill us all if he's so pissed at us? Kind of sounds like God is a dick with some issues. He would rather have us piss him off than just be rid of us.
Quote from: IYT on December 14, 2007, 10:25:49 AM
As a Gonzo journalist, you should know you can never answer all the why's. So God thinks we're dicks...my question: why is systematic torture of humans is preferred by God as opposed to instantaneous obliteration? Does God get off on this revenge? Why wouldn't he just kill us all if he's so pissed at us? Kind of sounds like God is a dick with some issues. He would rather have us piss him off than just be rid of us.
Oh, I'm not here to answer the "Why's". I'm just relaying a F.A.Q. provided to me in a particular drug frenzy to the rest of you. Take your issues up with [insert-god-here], I'm just the messenger.
Leave it to the rest of the board to offer wildly speculative answers to your questions if [insert-god-here] fails to return your phone calls.
Quote from: IYT on December 14, 2007, 10:25:49 AM
Kind of sounds like God is a dick with some issues.
From my very first post in this thread.
Quote from: Locutus on May 09, 2007, 09:20:54 PM
... I'm left to draw the conclusion that in the best case, god simply sucks, or in the worst case he's just a prick who enjoys fucking with people.
:biggrin:
Quote from: lex on December 10, 2007, 12:30:56 PM
Breaking news people, this is a war zone, we are a fallen race and we are in enemy territory, and its an enemy that would love to off all of us thus hindering prophesy of the enemies demise. We got help, but aren't we a bunch of retards that can't pour urine out of a boot with the instructions on the bottom?
Retarded is thinking you are in the middle of some Star Wars episode with "the big guy" on your side. Goofy. Fallen race? WTF is that?
Quote from: lex on December 12, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Obviously you have some reading comprehension problems, LMAO.
Sorry kiddo, these people I would imagine have had experiences that have lead them to believe. I know you would like to believe that Christians are all just a bunch of ignorant idiots and you dig elevating yourself and your petty "book learning" up above them. This arrogant bigotry really shows a lot about your character and indeed calls into question the quality of this "book learning" you hold so dear.
Again, I am sorry God can't be measured or exposed with our primitive science tools so that it can be shown to people to include the truly dim, but the whole thing is about faith, or perhaps a more simplistic explanation, trust. Without it, you will never see him, or even know where to look.
As far as why "shit happens" you been given reasonable explanations by me repeatedly, but you ignore them, which goes back to my saying, this really just a bash Christians thread. It started off trying to bait HH and you didn't get much satisfaction from him.
Gee, whining about name calling after you start off with the thread name calling and insulting people? ROFLMAO!
Insulting Islam? More reading comprehension problems, and digging desperately for some ammo to boot, tsk tsk.
Not really, they will obviously hire and pass about anyone. It's what you do with the "education" that counts. It's a piece of paper that MIGHT get you in the door, but if you suck you will not last. Hence the college grads flipping burgers
Hmm..Good Christian, bad Christian left for the day...I am a different kind of Christian.
So..I can be a little rough when you try to punk down my faith.
Consider my love like this, if you said these sort of insulting things to my face, I wouldn't off you and dispose of your body, I would let you slide and walk away. Might even pray for your goofy ass later, and mine for being so pisT.
I get the impression that lex hates academics due to some traumatic failure to either get in school, permanently, or failed in his disertation at the end. You aren't going to start mailing bombs to anyone, are you? There are educated smart people and educated dumb people as with any class of people. I know people that know Social Science better than most professors, but never did anything but read and study on their own.
I think the broad brush you use to discredit education is no better than mine that paints all religions in the same category; goofy.
The god of abraham (jehovah, allah, yaweh, et al) is a dick, per the bible. If "he" wiped us out, the game is over. Pawns are much more fun to fuck with than rubble.
Quote from: dan foster on December 14, 2007, 07:16:56 PM
I think the broad brush you use to discredit education is no better than mine that paints all religions in the same category; goofy.
Lol...you just called yourself goofy. Indeed, you are.(We agree on something :eek:)...and with some reading comprehension problems as well, probably just comprehension problems all around. It's probably due to that large weed you have shoved up your ass tickling that one braincell so it can harp about religious people in singularity. Seriously do you do anything but bitch about religious people? You must have some major issues to be picking on a group of people that don't fight back due to their meek nature. And ...lol...God ...you pick on him due to the fact you got to figure he's a safe one for not coming down and kicking your ass.
Go grow some balls and take some of this angst out on some people in real life that can do something back about it. Your mutual mastrobation club here of God/Religion haters is frankly pathetic, and down right boring. Now stamp your little feet and say something really clever (in your own mind) back. Tell me how you really feel, lol, stop holding back.
Don is so cute! He's all devoted to pissing people off in a plays-in-his-own-shit sorta way. Awwww =)
Quote from: fitgeek24 on December 14, 2007, 08:58:05 PM
Don is so cute! He's all devoted to pissing people off in a plays-in-his-own-shit sorta way. Awwww =)
I guess I am a little confused as I don't understand this statement. Is it to me, about me, or should I just ignore it? Sorry.
Quote from: lex on December 14, 2007, 08:19:11 PM
Lol...you just called yourself goofy. Indeed, you are.(We agree on something :eek:)...and with some reading comprehension problems as well, probably just comprehension problems all around. It's probably due to that large weed you have shoved up your ass tickling that one braincell so it can harp about religious people in singularity. Seriously do you do anything but bitch about religious people? You must have some major issues to be picking on a group of people that don't fight back due to their meek nature. And ...lol...God ...you pick on him due to the fact you got to figure he's a safe one for not coming down and kicking your ass.
Go grow some balls and take some of this angst out on some people in real life that can do something back about it. Your mutual mastrobation club here of God/Religion haters is frankly pathetic, and down right boring. Now stamp your little feet and say something really clever (in your own mind) back. Tell me how you really feel, lol, stop holding back.
Since you are the self appointed "religious people" rep, I guess you are feeling some of the pressure. Your "do something about it" falls way short of anything real and the defense of your religion even further down the limp dick factor. Bored means you don't have to post idiocies the get called into question. Bored means you don't have to read my posts that call your claims of divine providence into question with logic, reason and physics to support my assault of your delusions or fantasies.
Now, obie wan, methinks your mum is calling so put down the laser sword, I mean game controller, and let her know you got picked on while out playing :biggrin2:
1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Quote from: dan foster on December 14, 2007, 10:41:58 PM
Since you are the self appointed "religious people" rep, I guess you are feeling some of the pressure. Your "do something about it" falls way short of anything real and the defense of your religion even further down the limp dick factor. Bored means you don't have to post idiocies the get called into question. Bored means you don't have to read my posts that call your claims of divine providence into question with logic, reason and physics to support my assault of your delusions or fantasies.
Now, obie wan, methinks your mum is calling so put down the laser sword, I mean game controller, and let her know you got picked on while out playing :biggrin2:
1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
You're like an owl, light shown on you makes you blind.
Personally, I think you should follow F.A.Q. and go get some first hand proof of your claims.
Quote from: lex on December 14, 2007, 10:46:22 PM
You're like an owl, light shown on you makes you blind.
Personally, I think you should follow F.A.Q. and go get some first hand proof of your claims.
My claims about what, ol' wise one of such deep, deep, cliches. I have made my case with facts on every occassion, but I really am lost on which "claims" you think I don't have first hand proof. Watch out, owls eat mice. OOOOOOOHHHHHH!
Quote from: dan foster on December 14, 2007, 10:36:56 PM
I guess I am a little confused as I don't understand this statement. Is it to me, about me, or should I just ignore it? Sorry.
It's a generalization stating that the sort of person who diligently argues religion [regardless of what side s/he is arguing] should off themselves.
Quote from: fitgeek24 on December 15, 2007, 11:43:25 AM
It's a generalization stating that the sort of person who diligently argues religion [regardless of what side s/he is arguing] should off themselves.
So, outrageous claims of a religious nature and direct threats to the Constitution of the US should just go ignored? I don't have a "if yer not wiv us, then yer agin us" attitude on any of this, but why not bring your own thoughts in on these discussions and make a contribution to the general discourse?
I am here to learn and discuss. That may seen like arguing, but how about helping us all get past the "arguing" and on to real answers. I guess I do get frustrated as the discussions have gotten past data and on to just bickering. I really want to know what makes people believe in outrageous stuff and I never get a "real" answer.
Quote from: fitgeek24 on December 15, 2007, 11:43:25 AM
It's a generalization stating that the sort of person who diligently argues religion [regardless of what side s/he is arguing] should off themselves.
Nice.
QuoteIt's a generalization stating that the sort of person who diligently argues religion [regardless of what side s/he is arguing] should off themselves.
oh, the irony.
the irony is freakin' killing me.
God loves all of you--even the blasphemers! :smile:
Quote from: tallulahdahling on December 22, 2007, 02:34:19 PM
God loves all of you--even the blasphemers! :smile:
Be sure and thank him for us. :smile:
I guess I must be chief amongst the blasphemers since I started the thread. :icon_twisted:
Yup, Loco -- yer goin' straight to Hell! LOL
I'm sure I'll have lotsa' company. :yes: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on December 27, 2007, 02:12:07 PM
I'm sure I'll have lotsa' company. :yes: ;D
:pimp: :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 27, 2007, 02:13:30 PM
:pimp: :biggrin:
I will take hell over heaven, or I just want to be "left behind". I hope that pleases our christian friends because deep down I think they enjoy the idea that if one doesn't believe what they believe, then "the punishment" is well deserved.
Of course, I know what's coming.
`Gospel of wealth' facing scrutiny
By ERIC GORSKI, AP Religion Writer Thu Dec 27, 2:56 PM ET
The message flickered into Cindy Fleenor's living room each night: Be faithful in how you live and how you give, the television preachers said, and God will shower you with material riches.
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And so the 53-year-old accountant from the Tampa, Fla., area pledged $500 a year to Joyce Meyer, the evangelist whose frank talk about recovering from childhood sexual abuse was so inspirational. She wrote checks to flamboyant faith healer Benny Hinn and a local preacher-made-good, Paula White.
Only the blessings didn't come. Fleenor ended up borrowing money from friends and payday loan companies just to buy groceries. At first she believed the explanation given on television: Her faith wasn't strong enough.
"I wanted to believe God wanted to do something great with me like he was doing with them," she said. "I'm angry and bitter about it. Right now, I don't watch anyone on TV hardly."
All three of the groups Fleenor supported are among six major Christian television ministries under scrutiny by a senator who is asking questions about the evangelists' lavish spending and possible abuses of their tax-exempt status.
The probe by Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, has brought new scrutiny to the underlying belief that brings in millions of dollars and fills churches from Atlanta to Los Angeles — the "Gospel of Prosperity," or the notion that God wants to bless the faithful with earthly riches.
All six ministries under investigation preach the prosperity gospel to varying degrees.
Proponents call it a biblically sound message of hope. Others say it is a distortion that makes evangelists rich and preys on the vulnerable. They say it has evolved from "it's all right to make money" to it's all right for the pastor to drive a Bentley, live in an oceanside home and travel by private jet.
"More and more people are desperate and grasping at straws and want something that will alleviate their pain or financial crisis," said Michael Palmer, dean of the divinity school at Regent University, founded by Pat Robertson. "It's a growing problem."
The modern-day prosperity movement can largely be traced back to evangelist Oral Roberts' teachings. Roberts' disciples have spread his theology and vocabulary (Roberts and other evangelists, such as Meyer, call their donors "partners.") And several popular prosperity preachers, including some now under investigation, have served on the Oral Roberts University board.
Grassley is asking the ministries for financial records on salaries, spending practices, private jets and other perks. The investigation, coupled with a financial scandal at ORU that forced out Roberts' son and heir, Richard, has some wondering whether the prosperity gospel is facing a day of reckoning.
While few expect the movement to disappear, the scrutiny could force greater financial transparency and oversight in a movement known for secrecy.
Most scholars trace the origins of prosperity theology to E.W. Kenyon, an evangelical pastor from the first half of the 20th century.
But it wasn't until the postwar era — and a pair of evangelists from Tulsa, Okla. — that "health and wealth" theology became a fixture in Pentecostal and charismatic churches.
Oral Roberts and Kenneth Hagin — and later, Kenneth Copeland — trained tens of thousands of evangelists with a message that resonated with an emerging middle class, said David Edwin Harrell Jr., a Roberts biographer. Copeland is among those now being investigated.
"What Oral did was develop a theology that made it OK to prosper," Harrell said. "He let Pentecostals be faithful to the old-time truths their grandparents embraced and be part of the modern world, where they could have good jobs and make money."
The teachings took on various names — "Name It and Claim It," "Word of Faith," the prosperity gospel.
Prosperity preachers say that it isn't all about money — that God's blessings extend to health, relationships and being well-off enough to help others.
They have Bible verses at the ready to make their case. One oft-cited verse, in Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians, reads: "Yet for your sakes he became poor, that you by his poverty might become rich."
Critics acknowledge the idea that God wants to bless his followers has a Biblical basis, but say prosperity preachers take verses out of context. The prosperity crowd also fails to acknowledge Biblical accounts that show God doesn't always reward faithful believers, Palmer said.
The Book of Job is a case study in piety unrewarded, and a chapter in the Book of Hebrews includes a litany of believers who were tortured and martyred, Palmer said.
Yet the prosperity gospel continues to draw crowds, particularly lower- and middle-income people who, critics say, have the greatest motivation and the most to lose. The prosperity message is spreading to black churches, attracting elderly people with disposable incomes, and reaching huge churches in Africa and other developing parts of the world.
One of the teaching's attractions is that it doesn't dwell on traditional Christian themes of heaven and hell but on answering pressing concerns of the here and now, said Brian McLaren, a liberal evangelical author and pastor.
But the prosperity gospel, McLaren said, not only preys on the hope of the vulnerable, it puts too much emphasis on individual success and happiness.
"We've pretty much ignored what the Bible says about systemic injustice," he said.
The checks and balances central to Christian denominations are largely lacking in prosperity churches. One of the pastors in the Grassley probe, Bishop Eddie Long of suburban Atlanta, has written that God told him to get rid of the "ungodly governmental structure" of a deacon board.
Some ministers hold up their own wealth as evidence that the teaching works. Atlanta-area pastor Creflo Dollar, who is fighting Grassley's inquiry, owns a Rolls Royce and multimillion-dollar homes and travels in a church-owned Learjet.
In a letter to Grassley, Dollar's attorney calls the prosperity gospel a "deeply held religious belief" grounded in Scripture and therefore a protected religious freedom. Grassley has said his probe is not about theology.
But even some prosperity gospel critics — like the Rev. Adam Hamilton of 15,000-member United Methodist Church of the Resurrection in suburban Kansas City, Mo. — say that the investigation is entering a minefield.
"How do you determine how much money a minister like this is able to make when the basic theology is that wealth is OK?" said Hamilton, an Oral Roberts graduate who later left the charismatic movement. "That gets into theological questions."
There is evidence of change. Joyce Meyer Ministries, for one, enacted financial reforms in recent years, including making audited financial statements public.
Meyer, who has promised to cooperate fully with Grassley, issued a statement emphasizing that a prosperity gospel "that solely equates blessing with financial gain is out of balance and could damage a person's walk with God."
Link to Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_on_re_us/prosperity_preachers;_ylt=AkDogSmiBvd45Z8oQK1OOKKs0NUE)
:rolleyes:
God's children doin' the best they know how.
Quote from: dan foster on December 27, 2007, 05:03:50 PM
Of course, I know what's coming.
Curious question.................not being sarcastic.........what do you think IS coming? after death?.... :confused:
I'm not Dan, but I'll tell you what's coming. Nothing. Squat. You're as dead as a tree, dog, cat, bird, or any other biological life form.
The only reason certain among us fabricate god, other deities, reincarnation, etc., is because our brains are capable of contemplating mortality, and the majority of us aren't comfortable that the end is simply that. The end. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on December 28, 2007, 01:05:30 PM
I'm not Dan, but I'll tell you what's coming. Nothing. Squat. You're as dead as a tree, dog, cat, bird, or any other biological life form.
The only reason certain among us fabricate god, other deities, reincarnation, etc., is because our brains are capable of contemplating mortality, and the majority of us aren't comfortable that the end is simply that. The end. :wink:
Here is where we part ways in our philosophies Locutus. I tend to believe that the creator does indeed exist on some level, and life goes on minus the physical / biological amenities; which are what makes life attractive and desirable.
I look at life as a platue of spiritual development; a phase within our spiritual growth if you will. In order to experience some of the aspects of spiritual growth you must first experience some of the physical / emotional aspects of biological life. These experiences provide growth opportunity for the soul that cannot be obtained any other way.
Organized religion is just humankind's creation in order to justify a means with which to control the masses and obtain wealth and power over the masses. It is not what the creator would have us waste our precious time here pursuing.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 28, 2007, 01:42:53 PM
Here is where we part ways in our philosophies Locutus. I tend to believe that the creator does indeed exist on some level, and life goes on minus the physical / biological amenities; which are what makes life attractive and desirable.
I look at life as a platue of spiritual development; a phase within our spiritual growth if you will. In order to experience some of the aspects of spiritual growth you must first experience some of the physical / emotional aspects of biological life. These experiences provide growth opportunity for the soul that cannot be obtained any other way.
You would enjoy the movie ONE LAST THING..., as it hints at "the next level". I like the movie because the central character is a realist and goes out with a smile on his face :smile:
Quote from: dan foster on December 28, 2007, 01:45:14 PM
You would enjoy the movie ONE LAST THING..., as it hints at "the next level". I like the movie because the central character is a realist and goes out with a smile on his face :smile:
I love movies. I'll check this one out Dan. :yes: 8)
Is it out on DVD or HD/Dvd?
Quote from: Locutus on December 28, 2007, 01:05:30 PM
I'm not Dan, but I'll tell you what's coming. Nothing. Squat. You're as dead as a tree, dog, cat, bird, or any other biological life form.
Let's think about this for a minute! What happens to the atoms and molecules that make up your body? Do they not go on and become part of other living beings? In fact, isn't this process going on right now even before we die, as we slough off skin cells and the like?
We are all connected to each other and to the Earth in this way. We are stardust!
:wink:
Quote from: Bo D on December 28, 2007, 01:52:48 PM
Let's think about this for a minute! What happens to the atoms and molecules that make up your body? Do they not go on and become part of other living beings? In fact, isn't this process going on right now even before we die, as we slough off skin cells and the like?
We are all connected to each other and to the Earth in this way. We are stardust!
:wink:
Indeed Bo! Indeed! :yes: 8)
Quote from: Bo D on December 28, 2007, 01:52:48 PM
Let's think about this for a minute! What happens to the atoms and molecules that make up your body? Do they not go on and become part of other living beings? In fact, isn't this process going on right now even before we die, as we slough off skin cells and the like?
We are all connected to each other and to the Earth in this way. We are stardust!
:wink:
That part I'll go with. ;D
Quote from: Palehorse on December 28, 2007, 01:47:48 PM
I love movies. I'll check this one out Dan. :yes: 8)
Is it out on DVD or HD/Dvd?
I stumbled across it on cable (not sure which channel). It is a 2005 movie. Very funny, tragic, and probably dissed by all the reviewers at the time.... :rant:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0452660/ (http://imdb.com/title/tt0452660/)
It is on DVD, as well:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F4RHAM/imdb-adbox/ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F4RHAM/imdb-adbox/)
Quote from: dan foster on December 28, 2007, 01:57:34 PM
I stumbled across it on cable (not sure which channel). It is a 2005 movie. Very funny, tragic, and probably dissed by all the reviewers at the time.... :rant:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0452660/ (http://imdb.com/title/tt0452660/)
It is on DVD, as well:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F4RHAM/imdb-adbox/ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F4RHAM/imdb-adbox/)
TYVM sir! :smile:
And the evidence just keeps rolling and rolling in. God's returned to his barbarous O.T. ways. ;D
Hot off the press:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cop: Suspect says God made him kill, cook girlfriend
TYLER, Texas (AP) -- Friends and family of a 21-year-old who police say was killed and mutilated by her boyfriend struggle to put aside the grisly details of her death.
"You can't sleep. You can't think straight anymore," said Amy Gage, a friend and neighbor of the victim, Jana Shearer. "Then you just keep finding out more and more. It's the most difficult thing anyone can go through."
Shearer's boyfriend, Christopher Lee McCuin, 25, was charged with capital murder after police said they found her body, an ear boiling in a pot on a stovetop, and a hunk of flesh with a fork in it on a plate at the crime scene.
McCuin, wearing a jail-issue red jumpsuit, was not asked to enter a plea as he appeared before state District Judge Jack Skeen Jr. on Monday. Skeen continued McCuin's bond at $2 million and appointed an attorney to represent him.
Authorities said McGuin's comments in a 911 call that alerted them to the hideous discovery led them to believe he may have intended to eat his girlfriend's remains, but said it is unclear whether McCuin consumed any part of her body.
Smith County Sheriff Lt. Larry Wiginton told the Tyler Morning Telegraph that McCuin told investigators that God made him kill Shearer.
"When he said God told him to do it, one of the investigators looked at him and just said, 'What did you say?"' according to Wiginton.
The judge sealed the arrest and search warrant affidavits and issued a gag order in the case, which has shocked this East Texas town about 110 miles east of Dallas.
Gage said McCuin and Shearer had only been dating a few months. She remembered Shearer as an unflappably happy friend who had a knack for making her neighbors laugh.
"We really want to focus on her being a person who loved life, and not what happened to her," Gage said. "It was such a tragedy. We have to try to focus on the fact that Jana was a good person."
Officials believe Shearer was taken by McCuin from her home late Friday night and killed. Authorities said McCuin then drove to his estranged wife's home, where he stabbed William Veasley, 42. His condition was unavailable on Monday night.
McCuin was still at his estranged wife's home when deputies arrived, but he jumped into his car and escaped after a short chase, said Smith County Sheriff J.B. Smith.
advertisement
McCuin wasn't seen again until Saturday morning, when he arrived at the home he shared with his mother and called her into the garage so she could "come see what he had done," Smith said.
His mother and her boyfriend saw the remains of Shearer, authorities said. McCuin's mother and her boyfriend fled the home and flagged down a police officer. McCuin dialed 911 after they left and told an emergency dispatcher he had killed Shearer and was boiling her body parts, Smith said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/08/texas.slaying.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/08/texas.slaying.ap/index.html)
well it seems like god may have been up to no good here. but this guy might not be telling the truth about who made him kill and eat his girlfriend.
Prolly da debbil.
Sorry, I just can't help myself. :devil29:
I found this in my wanderings hither and thither on the Internet. Moniker redacted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote from: Anonymous
In my lifetime, I have:
a) lost my mother to cancer at the age of 56 when I was only 8
Well that certainly sucks. I can't even imagine what she's gone through.
Quote from: Anonymous
b) had my brother to die (murdered) at the age of 21 and I was only 16
Again, too much loss at such a young age. I feel terribly for her.
Quote from: Anonymous
c) had another brother to be electrocuted at the age of 30, I was only 18
Wow! Two years later and already 3 losses for our now 18 year old.
Quote from: Anonymous
d) I was in a car accident with my husband and daughter when I was 19, my husband..at the time.. had his face completely crushed (he lived and basically looks normal, except for some swelling)
:spooked: Damn! She can't catch a break. 3 losses to date and almost had loss number 4. Is this bad luck??
Quote from: Anonymous
e) At the age of 25 my house caught on fire, while me, my husband and daughter were all asleep, (1 week before Christmas) but thank God our fire alarms went off.
:eek: :spooked: :eek:
Now god gets the credit for finally steppin' up to the plate in the poor young woman's life?!?!?!??
Quote from: Anonymous
f) One week after the fire I was hit by a drunk driver and thrown from the car. I was left in a ditch...the driver ran because he thought I was dead, but I lived...had many bad injuries that have been lifelong problems, but I lived and have basically had a normal life.
:eek: :spooked: :eek: :spooked: :eek: :spooked: :eek: :spooked:
6 strikes already!
Quote from: Anonymous
g) 1.5 years later had to have a lump removed from my breast that, thank God, was benign
Wow! God's gettin' some good credit after letting some really bad shit go down.
Quote from: Anonymous
h) lost another brother in 2001, to cancer, at the age of 63, I was 41 at the time
:spooked: 8, count 'em, 8 strikes and she's barely into her forties.
Quote from: Anonymous
i) was in another car accident 6 months after I lost my brother. My left arm was shattered, but I am able to use it completely and unless I have to straighten it completely out you would never know I almost lost all use of it.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
This clearly shows that god, if he exists, doesn't give a rat's ass about this poor woman.
Quote from: Anonymous
j) 6 months after that I lost my father at the age of 88.5, I was 42 at the time
And the blows just keep on coming for this poor woman. Now I have no idea whether any of the above is true, however they were all contained in one post and after typing all of the above, she types these words:
Quote from: Anonymous
There are more things that have happened, but these were the major things. My point is, I have gone through alot in my life, bad things, but they have made me mentally strong. The mental and physical pain has been hard....but I know that I was protected by the grace of God. Most ppl who would have endured what I have would question if there is a God and ask why. I have never done that. I have always felt that he has protected me and there is a reason for each incident. Somethings I think I realize why, other's I do not know yet and maybe never will. All I know is I have faith that there is the father, the son and the holy spirit and I believe that they have been there during each trying time....I truly believe in "footprints in the sand".
:rolleyes:
Now if that isn't evidence that god sucks, I don't know what is. Here is a poor woman who has been persecuted all her life by catastrophic events that god could have stopped or prevented, but she's all too willing to give him credit for gettin' her through and she gives him trust to know that all of that bad shit was simply for her long term good.
The evidence keeps rolling in.
God sucks. :yes:
LMFAO!!!
Thats hysterical! God gets the credit for her good times? Hell no! If he was there with the good stuff, then he was there in the bad stuff too! Sounds like she has been kept alive just for the sport of watching her get jacked time after time!
God: Hey Gabriel, come over here!
Gab: Yeah, sup god, you gone smite someone?
God: Hell yeah, its that chick again! This time, its drunk driver time!
Gab: Oh hell yeah, slap dat beech!
After its over....
Woman: Dear god, thank you for protecting me...
God: Freakin sweet! She still digs me! This rocks!
Gab: Rock on! Sucker!!!!
God: Next week, round 11?
Gab: You know it G!
ROFLMAO! :biggrin:
Quote from: konquererz on January 09, 2008, 05:33:55 PM
God: Hey Gabriel, come over here!
Gab: Yeah, sup god, you gone smite someone?
God: Hell yeah, its that chick again! This time, its drunk driver time!
Gab: Oh hell yeah, slap dat beech!
After its over....
Woman: Dear god, thank you for protecting me...
God: Freakin sweet! She still digs me! This rocks!
Gab: Rock on! Sucker!!!!
God: Next week, round 11?
Gab: You know it G!
ROTFLMFAO!!! That's great!! :rotfl: ;D ;D
i guess god likes her ok, but he HATES her brothers.
If god stubs his toe and yells "Jesus ******* Christ!" is it considered taking the lords name in vain? Or is it just like yelling at yer kids? Or, is it like yelling at yourself for cutting yourself shaving? Or is it like a crazy person talking to themselves?
:biggrin:
My mom popped me once for asking what the "H" in Jesus H Christ stood for.
Quote from: Locutus on January 08, 2008, 11:52:21 PM
Now if that isn't evidence that god sucks, I don't know what is. Here is a poor woman who has been persecuted all her life by catastrophic events that god could have stopped or prevented, but she's all too willing to give him credit for gettin' her through and she gives him trust to know that all of that bad shit was simply for her long term good.
I think folks like Anonymous want to see who can have to worst sh!t happen to them while still remaining faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ. Just another Job wannabee.
Quote from: konquererz on January 15, 2008, 03:31:10 PM
If god stubs his toe and yells "Jesus ******* Christ!" is it considered taking the lords name in vain? Or is it just like yelling at yer kids? Or, is it like yelling at yourself for cutting yourself shaving? Or is it like a crazy person talking to themselves?
TFF :biggrin:
As some of you may know, I had to take an semi-unexpected trip to Tulsa, OK. Today, I found myself with some free time, so I headed out and about exploring. I ended up down by (to borrow Dan Foster's expression) the campus of Oral and Anal Roberts University. Towering above the campus, and just about everything else in Tulsa, is this lovely structure:
(http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/42802/2005811776800237235_rs.jpg)
For those who don't know the rich history of this place, let me share with you. This is the once hyped and long defunct City of Faith Medical and Research Center. Yes, that's right folks. This is the self-same building that ole' Oral had built after having a vision from a 900 foot tall Jeebus! :spooked: :biggrin: Yep, ole' Jeebus told Oral to go and build him a hospital and that it would be a success.
Unfortunately, ole' Jeebus was wrong, because the damn thing started BLEEDING money in short order. It bled money so bad that ole' Oral told the fleeced flock in 1987 that unless he raised $8 million, that Gawd would call him home. Not wanting to disappoint, the fleeced flock poured in the donations and Oral survived his close call with death. ;D The place is no longer a medical center and most of the property is leased out as private office space.
This just goes to show that not only God sucks, but his 900 foot tall Jeebus is a liar. :rolleyes: ;D
:rolleyes:
Why the eyeroll HH? Is it my comments or Oral's ridiculous claim of the 900 foot tall Jeebus, and his actions based on his vision?
They should all be in jail.
Quote from: Locutus on January 29, 2008, 07:07:18 PM
Why the eyeroll HH? Is it my comments or Oral's ridiculous claim of the 900 foot tall Jeebus, and his actions based on his vision?
I can care less about Oral, or any of those guys...................I do despise, the disrespectful talk about Jesus and God............I should ignore and I usually do..............but, sometimes........it rubs me the wrong way.... :no:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on January 30, 2008, 08:41:19 AM
I can care less about Oral, or any of those guys...................I do despise, the disrespectful talk about Jesus and God............I should ignore and I usually do..............but, sometimes........it rubs me the wrong way.... :no:
Your religion doesn't get a pass any more than 72 virgin brides and the rest of that crap do...
Quote from: dan foster on January 30, 2008, 06:16:31 PM
Your religion doesn't get a pass any more than 72 virgin brides and the rest of that crap do...
His religion is the ONLY one I see catching "Hell" from the great enlightened ones on this forum.
Quote from: Monroe on January 30, 2008, 06:19:13 PM
His religion is the ONLY one I see catching "Hell" from the great enlightened ones on this forum.
You must have missed this:
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=6813.0
Allah sucks 2. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on January 31, 2008, 01:38:26 PM
You must have missed this:
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=6813.0
Allah sucks 2. ;D
Come on. One swallow does not make a spring. You know what I mean.
Quote from: Monroe on January 30, 2008, 06:19:13 PM
His religion is the ONLY one I see catching "Hell" from the great enlightened ones on this forum.
ALL religions are goofy and none get a pass. I guess it is just that mooselambs either are too stupid to do anything online, or they are too busy wrapping their towels, or blowing themselves up, to post here :biggrin:
Well Dr. Monroe, I don't here people arguing to make Allah's laws constitutional amendments, or whining that this is a Islamic nation, or trying to ban gay marriage in the name of Allah, or blah blah blah Allah. In fact, I don't remember the last time someone tried to rebutt my argument with a scripture from the Koran. So until then. Invisible god can suck it (its invisible too! LMAO!)!
Every time I hear this song, I think of this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C0c-8EOphc
Another from my wanderings hither and thither on the Internet:
Quote
Yesterday my husband hit a tree while skiing at Monarc ski resort. He's lucky it didn't kill him. He took a pretty hard hit, tore up a side of his neck, but at least he's alive. He said he was going very fast through a wooded area at the resort.. and tried to get out of the way but didn't have time to, then he hit. I thank GOD for watching over him. Just a few days ago a reporter got killed at Keystone resort here in Colorado by hitting a tree.
:rolleyes:
Gawd is thanked for "watching over" this obvious dumbass. If god were really on the ball and truly omnipotent, he would have placed a smidgen of a thought into the obviously small brain of this individual telling him that "going very fast through a wooded area at the resort" ain't such a great idea and spared the dumbass from his ordeal.
Can't any of you see how laughable it is to invoke Gawd in so many instances??? I've yet to hear a sensible explanation for doing so.
I just noticed something else stupid about this and it's in bold:
Quote
Yesterday my husband hit a tree while skiing at Monarc ski resort. He's lucky it didn't kill him. He took a pretty hard hit, tore up a side of his neck, but at least he's alive. He said he was going very fast through a wooded area at the resort.. and tried to get out of the way but didn't have time to, then he hit. I thank GOD for watching over him. Just a few days ago a reporter got killed at Keystone resort here in Colorado by hitting a tree.
Why was he trying to get out of the way of anything? He was the one out of control. The poor tree is the victim here. Unfortunately the inert tree couldn't get out of the way, and was forced to withstand the collision with this jackass on skis.
I can't understand why anyone would want to put on a pair of skis and go hell bent for election down a slope with trees on it anyway. You'd think they would want to find a hill that at least didn't have obstacles in the way.
They just trust in Gawd to keep 'em safe. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on February 09, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
They just trust in Gawd to keep 'em safe. ;D
So much for good old common sense huh?
Ya' don't need it when ya' got Gawd lookin' out for ya'. ;D
He'll save ya' from your own devices.
Quote from: konquererz on February 08, 2008, 11:12:13 AM
Well Dr. Monroe, I don't here people arguing to make Allah's laws constitutional amendments, or whining that this is a Islamic nation, or trying to ban gay marriage in the name of Allah, or blah blah blah Allah. In fact, I don't remember the last time someone tried to rebutt my argument with a scripture from the Koran. So until then. Invisible god can suck it (its invisible too! LMAO!)!
The things poor konquererz does not "here" on the forum (and worse) are happening in many places in the "actual" world; maybe that's why he does not know of them, they're not on a forum.
Ignorance is not usually aware of itself. Konquererz is good example and a good lesson to us all.
Quote from: Monroe on February 09, 2008, 09:30:11 AM
The things poor konquererz does not "here" on the forum (and worse) are happening in many places in the "actual" world; maybe that's why he does not know of them, they're not on a forum.
Ignorance is not usually aware of itself. Konquererz is good example and a good lesson to us all.
No, YOU said that christianity was taking all the hits, and no one was challenging the idiocy of islam, et al. Well, YOU are wrong. ALL religions are goofy, and christianity doesn't get a pass on that.
Quote
Yesterday my husband hit a tree while skiing at Monarc ski resort. He's lucky it didn't kill him. He took a pretty hard hit, tore up a side of his neck, but at least he's alive. He said he was going very fast through a wooded area at the resort.. and tried to get out of the way but didn't have time to, then he hit. I thank GOD for watching over him. Just a few days ago a reporter got killed at Keystone resort here in Colorado by hitting a tree.
Ya know, you'd think that if gawud was really looking out for him, the big guy in the sky wouldn't have let him hit the damn tree.
But, with her fuzzy logic, she's thankful that her husband is still alive.
Now, that I find a bit strange, also. 'Cuz, ya know, if she believes so much in her version of the creator, why wouldn't she be happy if her hubby were called home to hebbin.
Then again, mebbe she just wants a few more years to tear his ass up down here, 'fore she sends him home herself. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: followsthewolf on February 09, 2008, 06:06:50 PM
Then again, mebbe she just wants a few more years to tear his ass up down here, 'fore she sends him home herself. :biggrin: :biggrin:
LMAO!! :biggrin:
Ya know I've been thinkin' about this thread. I am an agnostic and I don't really believe in a "God" as such but I also think it is wrong to diss others because they do. My mom is always trying to get me to go to church but I just don't see that I need organized religion at this point in my life. She does so more power to her. Why is it necessary to put anyones beliefs down just because you don't happen to agree with it? Questioning is one thing but to make fun of it and diss it is entirely another. If you would think about it most religions are similar in some way and some even have similar rituals. They may not agree on all the rules of religion but they aren't even realizing, except for radical Islam, its all basically the same and as long as you live right and treat others right what the hell's the difference what you believe. This might not make sense but I'm trying to condense and not make a mile long post. I do look somewhere for guidance sometimes but I usually look within myself and if I'm able to clear my mind enough an answer to whatever the problem is usually comes to me I just have to be smart enough to listen. It isn't always an easy answer and sometimes I don't like the answer but I usually know if its right or not by the way I feel when it comes to me. Laugh if you want because its hard to explain so it makes sense.
I don't understand why it bothers me to see threads like this and I don't think its so much that "God" is being made fun of I think its because something someone believes in is being made fun of in a non constructive way. Maybe its because I went through 35yrs of being made fun of and put down that cause's it to bother me I just don't know. I'm sure if I think about it enough I'll figure out why it bothers me for sure. If I do I'll certainly post it.
Now I'm off to watch the Pacer game..... :biggrin:
There are plenty of beliefs to be made fun of and no one gets a pass on that. You showed some distaste for other ideas like "radical islam", but why just that. Why not show some distaste for radical christianity, like the phelps clan of inbred mongrels?
To an atheist, all religions are just goofy. Not much of another way to put it. I, for one anyway, can't help but make fun of some of the beliefs, especially since I was lead to believe them myself at one time.
I think "we" have a right to think such beliefs are silly and every right to say that. I would never just openly ridicule people, but these forums are for sharing thoughts and for those who would be offended probably shouldn't jump in. However, I think this forum works both ways and there are certainly people who think non-belief is just as silly and say so. It is then up to each side to defend its position. However, atheists have the distinct advantage of having reality as a defense and religious folks nothing but vaporware.... :biggrin:
Quote from: dan foster on February 09, 2008, 10:58:26 PM
There are plenty of beliefs to be made fun of and no one gets a pass on that. You showed some distaste for other ideas like "radical islam", but why just that. Why not show some distaste for radical christianity, like the phelps clan of inbred mongrels?
To an atheist, all religions are just goofy. Not much of another way to put it. I, for one anyway, can't help but make fun of some of the beliefs, especially since I was lead to believe them myself at one time.
I think "we" have a right to think such beliefs are silly and every right to say that. I would never just openly ridicule people, but these forums are for sharing thoughts and for those who would be offended probably shouldn't jump in. However, I think this forum works both ways and there are certainly people who think non-belief is just as silly and say so. It is then up to each side to defend its position. However, atheists have the distinct advantage of having reality as a defense and religious folks nothing but vaporware.... :biggrin:
I will agree that radical christianity is almost, well, maybe as bad as radical Islam and almost for the same reasons.
In my post I was voicing some of my thoughts because I'm just a puzzled by them as someone reading the post. I have no clue as I said why I feel as though some of the posts dissing religion are wrong since I'm not a religious person. I tend at times to put myself in the place of others to understand how they feel and at times I do it to a fault so maybe I'm looking at some of the posts as a believer would and feeling what they might feel I just don't know.
I really don't understand athiest's. I understand believing in something and that different things bring different people the comfort they need but what brings an athiest comfort? When you are going through a particularly hard time what do you go to for comfort?
Family and friends.
And knowing that you are NOT a pawn in some huge universal chess match between the forces of "good" and "evil." No "satan" is out to get you, so you don't need a "god" to save you.
There are no evil forces at work in the world, only evil men.
There are certainly those who need a mental crutch, but if not religion, then drugs, drink, etc. I find that sad. The world is what it is and things happen and projecting some acting force onto it might well be a comfort to those who believe.
As an atheist, it isn't that I don't "believe" in anything, it is simply that I don't believe in anything supernatural. There is a difference. What comforts me when needed? I either work things out for myself, or count on other people (as locutus put it; family and friends) to help me work things out. In other words, I count on real physical principles, or the level of my own intellect or insight, but I KNOW that is the extent of the reality around me and that no invisible force is going to do or change anything. When I do something stupid, I don't blame anything else, either. No satan to have lead me astray, no god to have started the game, no jesus to punish me for my stupidity. Nothing.
Quote from: dan foster on February 10, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
There are certainly those who need a mental crutch, but if not religion, then drugs, drink, etc. I find that sad. The world is what it is and things happen and projecting some acting force onto it might well be a comfort to those who believe.
As an atheist, it isn't that I don't "believe" in anything, it is simply that I don't believe in anything supernatural. There is a difference. What comforts me when needed? I either work things out for myself, or count on other people (as locutus put it; family and friends) to help me work things out. In other words, I count on real physical principles, or the level of my own intellect or insight, but I KNOW that is the extent of the reality around me and that no invisible force is going to do or change anything. When I do something stupid, I don't blame anything else, either. No satan to have lead me astray, no god to have started the game, no jesus to punish me for my stupidity. Nothing.
What you and FTW both said makes sense. So actually athiests and agnostics aren't that far apart the way I see it.
Among atheists there is a subset with a need to attack and ridicule people who are not atheists, especially Christians. That is easy to understand.
It is more interesting to ask where the need to ridicule comes from.
I think those low riding baggy pants that must be held up with one hand are stupid, ridiculous, but I don't wast time on a forum making fun of the boys who wear them. Why would I? Why bother? It is enough just to think they are silly boys. They get a "pass".
And to equate the Phelps bunch with radical Islam is a demonstration of ignorance or a willful distortion.
Among xtians there is a subset (evangelicals) that feels the need to convert every last person to their ways of thinking, even to the extent of physical harm unless that goal is met (see: Spanish Inquisition, England's Star Court, ad infinitum, ad nauseum).
Then there is another subset that wishes to ascribe all moral conviction to the teachings of christ. Also dead wrong. And, of course, they think they have the "key to heaven" in their pockets, looking down their noses at all the "heathens" out there, rolling up their sleeves, and preparing to give the "great unwashed" their baths in the "blood of the lamb."
Been to those churches (probably more and different houses of worship than most on this forum), and done that. Would have gotten the t-shirt if they'd had them.
Did get damn near drowned when they baptized me (dropped me and then proceeded to step all over me on the bottom of the creek, keeping me from getting up by myself), though.
Quote from: followsthewolf on February 10, 2008, 12:48:20 PM
Among xtians there is a subset (evangelicals) that feels the need to convert every last person to their ways of thinking, even to the extent of physical harm unless that goal is met (see: Spanish Inquisition, England's Star Court, ad infinitum, ad nauseum).
Then there is another subset that wishes to ascribe all moral conviction to the teachings of christ. Also dead wrong. And, of course, they think they have the "key to heaven" in their pockets, looking down their noses at all the "heathens" out there, rolling up their sleeves, and preparing to give the "great unwashed" their baths in the "blood of the lamb."
Been to those churches (probably more and different houses of worship than most on this forum), and done that. Would have gotten the t-shirt if they'd had them.
Did get damn near drowned when they baptized me (dropped me and then proceeded to step all over me on the bottom of the creek, keeping me from getting up by myself), though.
I have been to several different church's too and it seems in all of them no matter what the faith 98% of the fellowship is all about what kind of car you drive, what kind of clothes you wear, and how much money you have. Thats one reason, well several, why I don't go for the organized religion bit. I'm not sayin' they're all like that just the ones I've experienced and the ones the kids went to when they were young. They figured it out pretty quick for themselves too.
Quote from: Monroe on February 10, 2008, 11:29:19 AM
Among atheists there is a subset with a need to attack and ridicule people who are not atheists, especially Christians. That is easy to understand.
It is more interesting to ask where the need to ridicule comes from.
I think those low riding baggy pants that must be held up with one hand are stupid, ridiculous, but I don't wast time on a forum making fun of the boys who wear them. Why would I? Why bother? It is enough just to think they are silly boys. They get a "pass".
And to equate the Phelps bunch with radical Islam is a demonstration of ignorance or a willful distortion.
If the outcome of the "baggy pants" were just the fashion statement, or lack thereof, then no problem. Evangelicals and their fascist movement are a threat to the nation and that has far more consequences than baggy pants. Phelps = terrorist = radical islam = abortion clinic bombing = christian soldiers = suicide bombers = ...
Quote from: dan foster on February 10, 2008, 03:32:02 PM
If the outcome of the "baggy pants" were just the fashion statement, or lack thereof, then no problem. Evangelicals and their fascist movement are a threat to the nation and that has far more consequences than baggy pants. Phelps = terrorist = radical islam = abortion clinic bombing = christian soldiers = suicide bombers = ...
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call it simple ignorance. Could you send me one of your cute little tinfoil hats?
Quote from: Monroe on February 10, 2008, 07:11:49 PM
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call it simple ignorance. Could you send me one of your cute little tinfoil hats?
So, as usual, you have nothing to offer. Why not tell us why we are ignorant? Just saying it doesn't mean much. Surely we can benefit from you wisdom and maybe see the light.
Found this on another thread here at the Zone.
Quote from: Mom on February 11, 2008, 01:03:49 AM
Robert Montecelli, 28, of Wasilla, who told authorities God was working through him when he burned down his mother's home outside Wasilla, finally got a day in court Friday.
Montecelli missed his first scheduled arraignment Tuesday after he reportedly suffered an epileptic seizure. Wednesday a frozen sprinkler-system pipe burst in the Palmer courthouse, which curtailed business for the day. Friday, he finally arrived before Magistrate David Zwink, who informed Montecelli that he faces a count each of first-degree arson and driving without a license.
If convicted of the arson count, Montecelli faces a maximum 20 years and $250,000 fine.
Alaska State Troopers arrested Montecelli at 1 p.m. Monday after he admitted to trooper Scott Bartlett that he set fire Feb. 1 to his mother's home at 8005 W. Williams Road, southwest of Wasilla, according to Bartlett's affidavit in the court record.
Montecelli told the trooper that "God was working through him and was punishing his father for his sinning" when he set fire to Helena Montecelli's home.
Only the garage was saved; the house itself was a complete loss, according to acting Central Mat-Su Fire Chief Michael Keenan.
He reported finding five empty 5-gallon gas cans behind the house as firefighters worked to subdue the flames.
http://www.adn.com/matsu/story/309805.html
:rolleyes: Ole' Gawd must be returning to his old ways of hellfire and brimstone meted out to those sinners. This time, one of his followers torched his mother's house to punish his father for his sins all the while claiming that Gawd was acting through him.
Quote
Montecelli told the trooper that "God was working through him and was punishing his father for his sinning" when he set fire to Helena Montecelli's home.
God sucks over and over and over again. :yes:
Actually I'd have to disagree with you on this one. I think he's the one who sucks for trying to blame it on god.
I'm not isolating it to this one particular incident. It's all Gawd's childrens doin' the best they know how. He's just one of the extreme ones. The rest are fightin' against HPV vaccinations for teen girls, fightin' for the teaching of intelligunt dezine sayin' they didn't come from no monkey, fightin' against women's rights to their own body. Every single one of them is acting out of a ridiculous belief in a supernatural Gawd, and doing what they think he wants them to do.
Very sad, and very scary.
Are you talking about those vaccines that are supposed to prevent certain cancers in women who are sexually active or something like that? Don't remember the details at the moment.
Yes.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/STDFact-HPV-vaccine.htm
I think somehow I would have to object to those shots too. They keep coming up with this stuff and have no clue what it might do down the road. It has nothing to do with god but more to do with not being sure of the safety of the shot itself.
Then that's different, but the majority of the arguments against this vaccine come from the crowd mentioned above. As to the safety, it seems safe enough for me according to the CDC site:
The FDA has licensed the HPV vaccine as safe and effective. This vaccine has been tested in over 11,000 females (ages 9-26 years) around the world. These studies have shown no serious side effects. The most common side effect is soreness at the injection site. CDC, working with the FDA, will continue to monitor the safety of the vaccine after it is in general use.
That's not too bad considering that it will stave off a virus that can cause cervical cancer.
Look at the other drugs the FDA has approved though. IMHO their record isn't real good lately.
Believe me, I have plenty of problems with the FDA as well, especially since that falls under the executive office of the POTUS and as such, has been driven to politically motivated conclusions even when science suggests otherwise. :wink:
So I guess the FDA, and Gawd and his chillin's all suck. ;D
Quote from: dan foster on February 10, 2008, 07:22:07 PM
So, as usual, you have nothing to offer. Why not tell us why we are ignorant? Just saying it doesn't mean much. Surely we can benefit from you wisdom and maybe see the light.
I offer an observation. I observe that you think religiously (Phelps, so called Christian) motivated protests against homosexuals are equal to thousands of Islamic radicals murdering thousands of innocents or even killing those same homosexuals. Your opinions are as faith based as Phelps'. Just like Phelps, you are too in love with your own ideas to learn much.
I'm just making the observation, not trying to change your mind. In your faith based case, there is not enough evidence to do that.
First, there are not thousands of islamic radicals murdering thousands of innocents. 19 dumbasses who believed god chose them killed thousands at theWTC/Pentagon, but that is different than your inference and all the more reason to despise religion. So, what would your point be?
Phelp's brand of terrorism (protesting at dead soldier's funerals) is no different than the islamic "terrorist's" and he claims jesus is on his side. A religious nut. So, what evidence are you offering for our ignorance of really, really stupid religious nuts?
Quote from: dan foster on February 12, 2008, 07:36:53 PM
First, three are not thousands of islamic radicals murdering thousands of innocents. 19 dumbasses who believed god chose them killed thousands at theWTC/Pentagon, but that is different than your inference and all the more reason to despise religion. So, what would your point be?
Phelp's brand of terrorism (protesting at dead soldier's funerals) is no different than the islamic "terrorist's" and he claims jesus is on his side. A religious nut. So, what evidence are you offering for our ignorance of really, really stupid religious nuts?
Remember the bombings of the Spanish trains? The London underground? The nightclub in Indonesia? Al Qaeda in Iraq (now much weakened)? The persistent bombings in Malaysia, Thailand, Algeria? On and on? Remember the thousands killed? No?
To not know is ignorance. If you do know but think Phelps is the same, I don't know what that is but it looks like a persistent irrational belief to me. Something you'd call "faith". But you just keep on. I'm not trying to change your mind. We just disagree. I think murdering innocents is worse than bad manners but that's just me.
Well, based on your logic, the death toll of innocents in iraq has a far higher body count for the "christian" side with over 100,000 iraqi civilians killed by the "christian" american bombings. Again, what is your point?
Terrorism is terroism is terrorism. You don't need a body count to be a terrorist....
Quote from: dan foster on February 13, 2008, 09:31:40 PM
Well, based on your logic, the death toll of innocents in iraq has a far higher body count for the "christian" side with over 100,000 iraqi civilians killed by the "christian" american bombings. Again, what is your point?
Terrorism is terroism is terrorism. You don't need a body count to be a terrorist....
Where in the world did you come up with your figures anyway?
There are other estimates, but this one is from "close in":
Concerning war-related deaths (civilian and non-civilian), and deaths from criminal gangs, Iraq's Health Minister Ali al-Shemari said that since the March 2003 invasion between 100,000-150,000 Iraqis had been killed.[13] "Al-Shemari said on Thursday [Nov. 9, 2006] that he based his figure on an estimate of 100 bodies per day brought to morgues and hospitals – though such a calculation would come out closer to 130,000 in total."
Quote from: dan foster on February 13, 2008, 09:48:18 PM
There are other estimates, but this one is from "close in":
Concerning war-related deaths (civilian and non-civilian), and deaths from criminal gangs, Iraq's Health Minister Ali al-Shemari said that since the March 2003 invasion between 100,000-150,000 Iraqis had been killed.[13] "Al-Shemari said on Thursday [Nov. 9, 2006] that he based his figure on an estimate of 100 bodies per day brought to morgues and hospitals – though such a calculation would come out closer to 130,000 in total."
Which means your figures are misleading since they include figures which have nothing to do with the war and includes both civilian and non-civilian. And is sounds like it also includes non innocents. I do believe you should check elsewhere and compare.
Here's another example. This is from a news article describing an IRS investigation into Southern Baptist Minister Wiley Drake's personal endorsement of Huckabee on official church letterhead. This investigation was brought on after Americans United for the Separation of Church and State lodged a complaint with the IRS over Wiley's activities on Huckabee's behalf.
Here is Drake's response against two officers of the organization that filed the complaint:
Quote
Drake later lashed out at them in an Aug. 14 press release and urged his supporters to direct "imprecatory prayer" toward two of the group's officials, Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming.
He gave as examples of imprecatory prayer: "[Persecute them. ... Let them be put to shame and perish" and "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow."
He's basically praying for, and directing his followers to pray for the persecution, up to and including death, for the people that filed the complaint. God's chillin' doin' the best they know how.
No matter how you paint the picture, there are countless examples that god sucks and so do his chillins acting on his behalf whether they be Muslim extremists or nutjobs like Drake.
Full article here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23155264/
Quote from: dan foster on February 13, 2008, 09:31:40 PM
Well, based on your logic, the death toll of innocents in iraq has a far higher body count for the "christian" side with over 100,000 iraqi civilians killed by the "christian" american bombings. Again, what is your point?
Terrorism is terroism is terrorism. You don't need a body count to be a terrorist....
I can't tell if your post is a wonderful example of "willful ignorance" or a deliberate deception.
If it's actual ignorance, and you really can't tell the difference between a thousand pound bomb dropped on a target that accidentally kills people nearby with a car bomb, deliberately set to kill people just going about their business, you lack any moral understanding of the subject.
The leap from Phelps to collateral damage in war is a bit of bull. How about Phelps = gang bangers in Bagdad - that's yours - and you call it logic. I
I think your position is morally and logically bankrupt.
Other people should not be fooled by your sight of hand here. You, like I said, can't learn better, or just don't.
Isn't dead ... dead? If you or a loved one were the victim...either on purpose or by accident...would it matter if it were a "well thought out" military plan or some nut w/a bomb strapped to his.....
Quote from: PIYA on February 14, 2008, 08:21:39 AM
Isn't dead ... dead? If you or a loved one were the victim...either on purpose or by accident...would it matter if it were a "well thought out" military plan or some nut w/a bomb strapped to his.....
More willful ignorance PIYA? Of course.
Last time I saw "collateral damage" it was the same as dead.
Maybe if the 5.56 round that blew through the baby's head doesn't matter if it's not your child.
Sometimes, though, it doesn't hurt to think about just exactly what is meant by the term that is used so loosely by those who are not expected to inflict it.
Quote from: followsthewolf on February 14, 2008, 08:06:00 PM
Last time I saw "collateral damage" it was the same as dead.
Maybe if the 5.56 round that blew through the baby's head doesn't matter if it's not your child.
Sometimes, though, it doesn't hurt to think about just exactly what is meant by the term that is used so loosely by those who are not expected to inflict it.
I don't know how you go from Phelps' demonstrations = Muslim terrorists to some sophomoric remark like "dead" is "dead" or some obvious statement about personal loss in war. Yes, dead is dead and personal loss is personally tragic. We can all agree on that. Am I to infer that you agree with dan foster and some how your statements support his position? Or are you changing the subject?
pretty simple still:
dead = dead = dead
terrorism = terrorism = terrorism
You might go and look up the term. Phelps is a terrorist.
QuoteWESTON, Wis. (AP) ― An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.
Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said Madeline Neumann died Sunday.
"She got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he said.
Vergin said an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.
They believed the key to healing "was it was better to keep praying. Call more people to help pray," he said.
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.
I thought this story would fit here.
WCCO (http://wcco.com/crime/praying.parents.arrested.2.684930.html)
Quote from: PIYA on March 27, 2008, 02:16:00 PM
I thought this story would fit here.
WCCO (http://wcco.com/crime/praying.parents.arrested.2.684930.html)
Ya know...There are kooks in every religious and non-religious persuasion.
This is nuts.
DK is easily treatable.
I go to the doctor...and then I pray that he does a good job! :wink:
Quote from: PIYA on March 27, 2008, 02:16:00 PM
I thought this story would fit here.
WCCO (http://wcco.com/crime/praying.parents.arrested.2.684930.html)
Yup! God sucks and her parents suck even more. :mad:
wow! i don't think god bears any responsibilty for this one. seal those parents up in a box, and they can pray for food and water.
Hopefully god will suck again and not give them any. :mad:
every time i look at this thread, i think about that southpark song...
Sheila: Times have changed
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?
Sheila: No, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
And flapping heads so full of lies
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: We need to form a full assault
Everyone: It's Canada's fault!
Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the damn cartoon
And now he's off to join the Klan!
Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to fuck myself!
Sheila: Well, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: It seems that everything's gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Copy Guy: They're not even a real country anyway
Ms. McCormick: My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer rich and true,
Instead he burned up like a piggy on the barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Sheila: heck no!
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their hockey hullabaloo
Liane: And that bitch Anne Murray too
Everyone: Blame Canada
Shame on Canada
For...
The smut we must stop
The trash we must bash
The Laughter and fun
Must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before somebody thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!!!
OMG, they killed kenny! You bastards!
Don't you know, we never have to blame "uuuuusss", god is responsible for everything. Bad things happen, we weren't good enough. Good things happen, we weren't good enough, but we "prayed right hard".
That helps when one lives in a random universe and afraid of EVERYTHING.
Oh yeah, I left out: if someone else does something bad, there is the devil to blame ;>)
Here's another case of a couple of whack-nuts letting their child die due to their belief in faith healing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23882698/
bizzare how these two assholes are being defended in some of the media, just because their goofiness is christian based.
Quote from: Monroe on February 14, 2008, 07:39:54 AM
I can't tell if your post is a wonderful example of "willful ignorance" or a deliberate deception.
If it's actual ignorance, and you really can't tell the difference between a thousand pound bomb dropped on a target that accidentally kills people nearby with a car bomb, deliberately set to kill people just going about their business, you lack any moral understanding of the subject.
The leap from Phelps to collateral damage in war is a bit of bull. How about Phelps = gang bangers in Bagdad - that's yours - and you call it logic. I
I think your position is morally and logically bankrupt.
Other people should not be fooled by your sight of hand here. You, like I said, can't learn better, or just don't.
So our killing is ok because it's just collateral damage but theirs is not because they're evil; is that what you're saying? That you seriously think you hold the moral high ground with this type of thinking is laughable.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 02, 2008, 11:40:42 AM
So our killing is ok because it's just collateral damage but theirs is not because they're evil; is that what you're saying? That you seriously think you hold the moral high ground with this type of thinking is laughable.
No, dumbass, that's not what I am saying. Twisting the discussion will not work.
Monroe is notable for his brilliant repartee.
Quote from: followsthewolf on April 02, 2008, 05:45:37 PM
Monroe is notable for his brilliant repartee.
No only brilliant, but accurate as well.
Quote from: Monroe on April 02, 2008, 10:14:36 PM
No only brilliant, but accurate as well.
Sounds like typical white trash Church of God psycho-babble to me.
So tell us, Moron, about you illustrious service to your country.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 03, 2008, 09:07:13 AM
So tell us, Moron, about you illustrious service to your country.
Probably giving airstarts to B1rD's :razz:
The great part about Monroe is that he is EXACTLY what we complain about with christians. High minded people who think everyone who doesn't get it is a moron and allows themselves to call other morons and dumbasses while stating they are right and have the moral high ground.
Any person who believes that it is more likely that an invisible person created our entire universe in 6 days but thinks the big bang is impossible doesn't have the right call anyone a moron! Monroe, you are possibly the most uneducated person I have ever met. The gall of your saying I was the moron is astounding. You either didn't read my post earlier or you simply didn't understand it. So your comment made you sound even more like an idiot! Do christianity a favor and stop defending it! Christians of your ilk do more damage to your cause than good!
And I have decide god doesn't suck. God doesn't exist so he can't suck. However, the IDEA of god sucks. The IDEA of a god who commands people to rip open pregnant women and dash babies heads against the rocks sucks and is foul. :yes:
Quote from: konquererz on April 07, 2008, 04:30:57 PM
And I have decide god doesn't suck. God doesn't exist so he can't suck. However, the IDEA of god sucks. The IDEA of a god who commands people to rip open pregnant women and dash babies heads against the rocks sucks and is foul. :yes:
Actually, if you read the thread from the beginning, that's exactly the point. God (and the concept) suck. However, since many take the concept as an absolute truth, I went ahead and simply said that God sucks.
Seriously, if you get the time, you should read the entire thread. There is some funny stuff in between when it was started and now. :yes:
South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
Topless woman tells DeLand police God told her to direct traffic
Gary Taylor
Sentinel Staff Writer
12:52 PM EDT, April 17, 2008
DeLand
A 30-year-old woman caused quite a commotion Wednesday evening when she decided to direct traffic at a DeLand intersection.
Rather than keeping traffic flowing through the intersection of W. Euclid and S. Orange avenues, the woman was creating a bit of a hazard, police said, because she was topless. The DeLand Police Department received a number of calls about 7 p.m. and responded to find the woman "foaming at the mouth and talking to herself," according to a police report.
The DeLand woman told police that God told her to direct traffic.
She was taken to an area hospital for a mental evaluation.
Link (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/custom/fringe/orl-bk-topless-woman-041708,0,1525944.story)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Depending on what this woman looked like, this may be one instance where god doesn't suck.
:biggrin: :biggrin:
:rolleyes: :no:
Quote from: Locutus on April 18, 2008, 12:22:43 PM
She was taken to an area hospital for a mental evaluation.
No way!
Quote from: me on April 18, 2008, 01:19:46 PM
:rolleyes: :no:
C'mon now. You don't see my point? ;D
Typical male point of view..... :yes: :razz:
:razz:
(http://bestsmileys.com/peeping/4.gif)
Quote from: me on April 18, 2008, 07:51:55 PM
Typical male point of view..... :yes: :razz:
I know! There aren't ever any hot nutbar men that do crap like that and if they did, the fact they were nutty enough to attempt something like that and credit God for it would be such a turn off that it wouldn't matter if they were hot before they opened their mouths. ;D
Little League Inc. sues Pompano man over 'Christian Little League'
BY VANESSA BLUM
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
April 21, 2008
Little League Baseball Inc. is suing a Pompano Beach man in Fort Lauderdale federal court for trademark violation over the name of his youth baseball group, Christian Little League.
The weight of the law is on the side of Little League, experts agreed. But Jay Kaplan, a 46-year-old father who started the league in January, insists he answers to a higher authority.
"GOD is the ultimate judge and has the final say," he wrote in a March 15 letter to Little League's lawyers.
Before filing suit Thursday, the organization's lawyers contacted Kaplan in a March 7 letter demanding that he stop using the Little League tag. The similar names could mislead and confuse the public by suggesting an affiliation between the groups, the lawyers wrote.
Kaplan responded with a four-page letter declaring only God could judge the dispute. He said no one would confuse his Coral Springs group with a secular organization and argued the phrase "little league" had entered the common vernacular.
"Christian Little League was GOD's idea and it is a great and wonderful idea," wrote Kaplan, who grew up Jewish and converted to Christianity. "I have no plans on changing the name GOD gave me."
Reached Friday on his way to Marlins youth baseball night, Kaplan said he had not yet seen the lawsuit.
"My position is Little League should embrace the name of Jesus. Let's start with that," he said.
But Little League's attorneys said God should be left out of it.
"The dispute is not theological, it is legal," the lawyers stated in a second letter sent March 17. They added: "Our client has no objection to your preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. ... Our client simply requests that you do so under a different name."
The letter suggested three alternatives — Christian Youth League, Christian Youth Baseball and Christian Baseball League — and threatened a lawsuit would follow if the name were not changed by March 28.
According to Kaplan, about 25 players have signed on to his fledging league, enough to field two teams.
"We play & we pray & we bible study," states the group's Web site at www.christianll.com, which notes the group is not affiliated with Little League Baseball Inc.
Christopher Downs, a spokesman for Little League headquarters in South Williamsport, Pa., said the Little League brand is often misused because it's so widely known.
"We have to be very protective of our trademark name and educate people that Little League is a trademarked entity that should not be used generically," Downs said. "Just because you have children playing youth baseball or youth softball doesn't mean they are playing Little League baseball or softball."
Little League, which got its start in 1939, has more than 2 million players in its baseball division and 400,000 participating in softball, according to its Web site.
It has a presence in 70 countries and at least 20 affiliated teams in Broward and Palm Beach counties.
It might seem odd that a group so entrenched in the American psyche would take notice of 25 players in Coral Springs.
However, trademark owners know they must be vigilant about protecting trademarks or risk losing them, said Matthew Nelles, a Fort Lauderdale trademark attorney at the law firm Ruden, McClosky, Smith, Schuster & Russell.
Nelles said trademark law does not treat religious entities any differently than nonreligious ones.
The basic principle is to protect the public from confusing one product with another, he said.
"Little League is a very strong trademark," Nelles said. "No one can contest the validity of that trademark."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flblittleleague0421sbapr21,0,5731885.story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flblittleleague0421sbapr21,0,5731885.story)
I wonder what this asshole is going to tell ole' Gawd when he loses this suit in court. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on April 21, 2008, 12:23:56 PM
I wonder what this asshole is going to tell ole' Gawd when he loses this suit in court. :rolleyes:
Hope they can instill "damages" for his defamation of their name :eek:
Jeebus!!! :mad:
Here's more of this shit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Parents charged in death of diabetic daughter
* Story Highlights
* Girl, 11, died of complications from untreated diabetes
* Parents prayed but did not take ailing child to a doctor
* Dale and Leilani Neumann face reckless homicide charges
* They are scheduled to appear in court on Wednesday
WESTON, Wisconsin (AP) -- Two parents who prayed as their 11-year-old daughter died of untreated diabetes were charged Monday with second-degree reckless homicide.
Family and friends had urged Dale and Leilani Neumann to get help for their daughter, but the father considered the illness "a test of faith" and the mother never considered taking the girl to the doctor because she thought her daughter was under a "spiritual attack," the criminal complaint said.
"It is very surprising, shocking that she wasn't allowed medical intervention," Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad said. "Her death could have been prevented."
Madeline Neumann died March 23 -- Easter Sunday -- at her family's rural Weston home. Her parents were told the body would be taken to Madison for an autopsy the next day.
"They responded, 'You won't need to do that. She will be alive by then,"' the medical examiner wrote in a report.
An autopsy determined that Madeline died from undiagnosed diabetic ketoacidosis, which left her with too little insulin in her body. Court records said she likely had some symptoms of the disease for months. VideoWatch prosecutors announce charges »
The Neumanns each face up to 25 years in prison if convicted. The couple and their attorney did not immediately return messages left Monday by The Associated Press.
Falstad said the Neumanns have cooperated with investigators and are not under arrest. They have agreed to make an initial court appearance Wednesday, she said.
Randall Wormgoor, a friend of the Neumanns, told police that Dale Neumann led Bible studies at his business, Monkey Mo Coffee Shop, and believed physical illness was due to sin, curable by prayer and by asking for forgiveness from God, the complaint said.
Wormgoor said he and his wife, Althea, were at the Neumann home when Madeline -- -- called Kara by her parents -- died. Wormgoor said he had urged the father to seek medical help and was told the illness "was a test of faith for the Neumann family and asked the Wormgoors to join them in praying for Kara to get well," the complaint said.
Althea Wormgoor said she "implored" the parents to seek medical help for the girl, the complaint said.
Leilani Neumann, 40, told the AP previously she never expected her daughter to die. The family believes in the Bible, which says healing comes from God, but they have nothing against doctors, she said.
Dale Neumann, 46, a former police officer, has said he has friends who are doctors and started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.
According to court documents, Leilani Neumann said in a written statement to police that she never considered taking the girl, who was being home-schooled, to a doctor.
"We just thought it was a spiritual attack and we prayed for her. My husband Dale was crying and mentioned taking Kara to the doctor and I said, 'The Lord's going to heal her,' and we continued to pray," she wrote.
The father told investigators he noticed his daughter was weak and slower for about two weeks but he attributed it to symptoms of the girl reaching puberty, the complaint said.
A day before Madeline died, according to the criminal complaint, the father wrote an e-mail with the headline, "Help our daughter needs emergency prayer!!!!." It said his daughter was "very weak and pale at the moment with hardly any strength."
The girl's grandmother, Evalani Gordon, told police that she learned her granddaughter could not walk or talk on March 22 and advised Leilani Neumann to take the girl to a doctor.
Gordon eventually contacted a daughter-in-law in California who called police on a non-emergency line to report the girl was in a coma and needed medical help. An ambulance was dispatched shortly before some friends in the home called 911 to report the girl had stopped breathing, authorities said.
One relative told police that the girl's mother believed she "died because the devil is trying to stop Leilani from starting her own ministry," the complaint said.
The Neumanns said they moved to Weston, a suburb of Wausau in central Wisconsin, from California about two years ago to open the coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. The couple has three other children, ages 13 to 16; they are living with relatives.
The family does not belong to an organized religion or faith, Leilani Neumann has said.
Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said the parents once belonged to the Lighthouse Pentecostal Church but later became what he called religious "isolationists" involved in a prayer group of five people.
"They have gone out on their own," he said. "... They have a very narrow view of Scripture and I would say not many people hold to that narrow of view."
In March, an Oregon couple who belong to a church that preaches against medical care and believes in treating illness with prayer were charged with manslaughter and criminal mistreatment in the death of their 15-month-old daughter. The toddler died March 2 of bronchial pneumonia and a blood infection that could have been treated with antibiotics, the state medical examiner's office said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/28/prayer.death.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/28/prayer.death.ap/index.html)
Quote
Randall Wormgoor, a friend of the Neumanns, told police that Dale Neumann led Bible studies at his business, Monkey Mo Coffee Shop, and believed physical illness was due to sin, curable by prayer and by asking for forgiveness from God, the complaint said.
Wonder what this asshole is going to expect from ole' Gawd now that he's hopefully looking at the maximum of 25 years of serving Gawd in prison. :mad: :mad:
QuoteFalstad said the Neumanns have cooperated with investigators and are not under arrest. They have agreed to make an initial court appearance Wednesday, she said.
For what reason would anyone make a court appearance when they are being criminally investigated if they are not under arrest? This must be a juvenile court hearing concerning the other children and CPS. Which has nothing to do with the possible criminal charges that may be brought against them. The statement is misleading.
Quote from: pariann on April 29, 2008, 08:01:54 AM
For what reason would anyone make a court appearance when they are being criminally investigated if they are not under arrest? This must be a juvenile court hearing concerning the other children and CPS. Which has nothing to do with the possible criminal charges that may be brought against them. The statement is misleading.
Better yet, why aren't they already in jail? No sign, or indication, they have posted bail.
I don't know the legalities for medical neglect and religious beliefs. What I do know is that no one agrees to go stand in front of a judge unless they have been charged with a crime, or at the very least accused of something. In this case, I can pretty much bet, the children have been taken from them, and there is a court hearing to determine if they will be wards of the state or returned home. Here in Madison County, I can tell you straight up, if there is a criminal investigation, they will not return the children they have in their custody until the criminal portion has been resolved. Been there, done that, no one died.....THANK GOD!!
Quote from: pariann on April 29, 2008, 11:08:45 AM
I don't know the legalities for medical neglect and religious beliefs. What I do know is that no one agrees to go stand in front of a judge unless they have been charged with a crime, or at the very least accused of something. In this case, I can pretty much bet, the children have been taken from them, and there is a court hearing to determine if they will be wards of the state or returned home. Here in Madison County, I can tell you straight up, if there is a criminal investigation, they will not return the children they have in their custody until the criminal portion has been resolved. Been there, done that, no one died.....THANK GOD!!
Children should be taken and never returned and they should both be sterilized.
Quote from: Locutus on April 29, 2008, 01:02:14 AM
Wonder what this asshole is going to expect from ole' Gawd now that he's hopefully looking at the maximum of 25 years of serving Gawd in prison. :mad: :mad:
He'll be bending over and serving Bubba.
That's when the prayin' really begins.
And justice will be served..... :biggrin: :icon_twisted:
Quote from: me on May 04, 2008, 10:29:22 AM
And justice will be served..... :biggrin: :icon_twisted:
Not until they are forced to watch the documentary bible camp, over and over, until they realize how stupid they were.
Quote from: dan foster on May 04, 2008, 12:11:25 PM
Not until they are forced to watch the documentary bible camp, over and over, until they realize how stupid they were.
Do ya really think that kind of stupidity can be treated and cured?
Quote from: followsthewolf on May 04, 2008, 12:21:09 PM
Do ya really think that kind of stupidity can be treated and cured?
No, but there is a chance they would at least realize they killed their daughter for NO REASON AT ALL.
to what end?
Quote from: awol on May 04, 2008, 09:47:44 PM
to what end?
I guess it would rank as rehab :biggrin:
Seems to me that anyone that kills on the basis of religion (as the couple did to their daughter), then there should be a Jesus Anonymous (JA) rehab they are forced to attend. :eek:
seems you got a pretty self-serving "highly developed sence of morality".
Quote from: awol on May 06, 2008, 07:00:02 AM
seems you got a pretty self-serving "highly developed sence of morality".
Sorry. I thought it pretty ironic, not within a sense of morality, but within a sense of humor. The faith-based state we now live in has allowed AA and other "religious" institutions to go into prisons and preach, by force, on the inmates for their "sins" against the state. Seems only fair that a christian that kills their own children should be forced into a Jesus Anonymous setting in order to be rehabilitated from praying and believing in invisible strawmen.
:confused:
QuoteMADISON, Wis. (Associated Press) -- Two children and their mother lived for about two months with the decaying body of a 90-year-old woman on the toilet of their home's only bathroom, on the advice of a religious "superior" who claimed the corpse would come back to life, authorities said Friday.
The children _ a 15-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy _ cried hysterically Wednesday after a deputy who came to their Necedah home looking for Magdeline Alvina Middlesworth ordered them out because of the stench from her body.
The children were in foster care Friday. Their mother, Tammy Lewis, and self-described "bishop" Alan Bushey remained in custody on felony counts of being a party to causing mental harm to a child.
AP (http://sandiego.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D90IIP8G0&_action=validatearticle)
That is just plain sick. What is wrong with people like that?
Quote from: me on May 10, 2008, 09:12:27 AM
That is just plain sick. What is wrong with people like that?
Religion.
Well I'm proud to proclaim that over a year since the starting of this thread, there have been countless citations to support, and no irrefutable evidence to the contrary, that God still sucks. ;D
You might think he does.....but every time I have a need, and don't know where I'm going to get it met, something happens and it's taken care of. I always say "thank you, God" when it happens, because I don't see anyone else around to thank. I don't think he sucks.
Quote from: pariann on May 16, 2008, 07:36:47 AM
You might think he does.....but every time I have a need, and don't know where I'm going to get it met, something happens and it's taken care of. I always say "thank you, God" when it happens, because I don't see anyone else around to thank. I don't think he sucks.
that is very cool, pari.....thanks for sharing.....you are NOT alone........millions of people, find themselves talking to God when things get tough.......
many forget Him when things are going good..............
I think God is awsome.........I thank Him often........probably not often enough............I have not been on this thread much..........I don't like the title...
I dont think He sucks either... ;)
Well I would prefer to think someone is watching out for me rather than thinking there are THIS many random coincidences. Let me make a small list of things I tell no one about.
Let's start by saying, I apply for new jobs every week with no luck, this one I'm not being helped with....BUT not working, I'm getting something accomplished that I would find very difficult to do if I was working. This MUST be done so that I can put the past 3 years behind me and move forward.
I'm living on a support check that I get once a week and never on the same day!! So I often run out of money before that check comes. When that happens, I know I'm going to be sitting at home until it does come. I won't be able to take the kids to their games or practices and I can't always rely on someone else to do it. Suddenly something comes up where someone else needs something and is willing to put gas in my tank. I don't go asking for anything, I'm sitting at home and out of the blue, I now have gas til my check comes.
I have to pay for the parenting classes. I can't afford them. I went to one and told them I didn't have the money that day to attend the class. The parenting coach said she would see me anyway that day. But I wouldn't be able to come back again until I paid that days fee. I made my appointment for the next week. But when the day came I didn't have the fee for that day or what I owed. The parenting coach snuck a session in anyway, at no charge at all. This week came around and I still didn't have the money to pay the fee. What I owed and what this weeks session would cost. Suddenly, someone I'd never met needed some computer advice. What she needed, I couldn't tell her over the computer, I needed to see the computer and what it was doing. The very next day I was at her house, fixing her computer. She paid me exactly what I needed to take my class for this week. I hadn't had a computer repair job in many weeks.
Who do I thank when out of the blue, answers to my unspoken requests are answered? I have many more out of the blue things I could mention that have happened over the last few months, without me ever saying out loud the need I had that I didn't know how to meet. Someone, somewhere is watching out for me....and I think it's because I'm honestly trying just that hard to do it all right. I think it's God.
Pari, I have had many similar incidents...and provisions or answers come "out of the blue"......many friends of mine ALSO have encountered incidents that, the only logical answer is ....GOD.
naw, He does NOT suck at all... :no:
keep on thanking Him.... :yes:
So is it a good thing that God takes the time to pay attention to and aid in the relatively minute needs of individuals or is it irresponsible when you consider that...
- roughly 25,000 people die each day from hunger (source: poverty.com)
- 2 million+ people are dying of aids each year
- 2 million children in poor countries are dying of Pneumonia each year
- Diarrheal diseases are killing about 1.6 million each year
- tuberculosis is still killing about 1.5 million people each year
- Malaria kills about a million people each year
- "The so-called childhood diseases of measles, pertussis (whooping cough), tetanus, and diphtheria are responsible for a little less than a million deaths per year"
- About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States (alone) -- one death every 13 minutes. (source: car-accidents.com)
- Every two minutes someone in the US is sexually assaulted (source: rainn.org)
- 847,000-3,470,000 are reportedly homeless in the US alone (source: Wikipedia)
- 7.6 million unemployed US citizens (source: bls.gov)
- cancer (no need to say more
- murder - violent crimes
- human slavery
- child abduction/exploitation
So, while he's making sure that Joe Schmoe has bus fare, the rest of his creation is going to hell in a handbasket. :rolleyes:
Once again.....I don't ask that anyone else believe what I believe. And I have my own belief's that don't necessarily coincide with Christian faith. Belief's that answer the stats you gave. But they are my belief's and I don't feel it's my place to push them on other people. There are much larger miracles that take place, it's up to those that know about them as to whether or not they see them as miracles.
Quote from: pariann on May 16, 2008, 07:36:47 AM
You might think he does.....but every time I have a need, and don't know where I'm going to get it met, something happens and it's taken care of. I always say "thank you, God" when it happens, because I don't see anyone else around to thank. I don't think he sucks.
Why don't you simply thank the people that happened to fill the need? I'm pretty sure things didn't pop out of thin air.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2008, 08:36:36 AM
.....I have not been on this thread much..........I don't like the title...
I dont think He sucks either... ;)
I think it's a perfect title given some of the examples cited herein. :razz: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2008, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: pariann on May 16, 2008, 07:36:47 AM
You might think he does.....but every time I have a need, and don't know where I'm going to get it met, something happens and it's taken care of. I always say "thank you, God" when it happens, because I don't see anyone else around to thank. I don't think he sucks.
Why don't you simply thank the people that happened to fill the need? I'm pretty sure things didn't pop out of thin air.
They get thank-you's also.......but they don't and can't know that they are providing something I really needed and only prayed for. So I thank my prayer request being answered. Oh, and I pray for other people too, I'm not selfish. :wink:
Well, there's millions of starving, diseased, injured and dying people and animals out there. Getta prayin'! :biggrin:
Believe me....I do. Sometimes I cry too.
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2008, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2008, 08:36:36 AM
.....I have not been on this thread much..........I don't like the title...
I dont think He sucks either... ;)
I think it's a perfect title given some of the examples cited herein. :razz: ;D
thats cuz ya don't believe in God in the first place.................so, i guess it would seem perfect..... ;) :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2008, 05:02:58 PM
thats cuz ya don't believe in God in the first place.................so, i guess it would seem perfect..... ;) :razz:
Quite true, I don't believe in him. Maybe that's why it seems perfect, although I do think there's some compelling evidence presented as well.
Have a good weekend my feathered friend. ;D
Quote from: PIYA on May 16, 2008, 04:52:46 PM
Well, there's millions of starving, diseased, injured and dying people and animals out there. Getta prayin'! :biggrin:
There are almost 300,000,000 people in the US and there is a good chance that a one-in-a-million "thing" (aka, miracle) will occur about 300 times on any given day. The universe is a random thing and I see no evidence that a "god" has any hand in it, including the solution to petty little problems of the religious.
One of the problems with religions is that those things that could be solved with human initiative are usually "someone else's problem" or "god's will". We really are a self-centered lot to think that "by the grace of god go I" and that some deity gives a good goddamn what job we have or what car we drive in answering our "prayers". The shit in your life that happens is just that; shit happens. If it gets cleared up and things are rosy; shit happens and un-happens to everyone. It would be nice if you had control over your own life, as most people do, and plan for the shit and the shinola.
A great quote from a great artist is due here: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." -- John Lennon
And, there isn't a biblical truth (an oxymoron) that comes anywhere close to that.
That's an awesome post dan. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on May 17, 2008, 12:55:36 AM
That's an awesome post dan. :yes:
Thanks. I mis-remembered the quote from Lennon, although I got the essence of it correct, but fixed it. My second favorite quote from the man: "I believe time wounds all heels"
Isn't it a great thing that you can believe whatever you want to believe. :wink:
Quote from: pariann on May 17, 2008, 11:16:59 AM
Isn't it a great thing that you can believe whatever you want to believe. :wink:
Only on these boards. I am not free to believe what I want because of the imposition of religious edicts in both government and society, at large. As an atheist, I cannot openly espouse my views for fear of retribution in employment, et al. So yea, free country, as long as you are a christian or you keep your mouth shut.
I'm sorry that it is that way for you. I don't care at all that you are an atheist and if you were talking to me out in the middle of the street, I would support your right to your belief. Whether that means anything or not. :)
Quote from: pariann on May 17, 2008, 01:41:53 PM
I'm sorry that it is that way for you. I don't care at all that you are an atheist and if you were talking to me out in the middle of the street, I would support your right to your belief. Whether that means anything or not. :)
Thanks and there are plenty of folks who still believe in our Founder's goal of religious freedom, which really is freedom of, and freedom from.
The folks that just assume every good american is a christian and that every good christian is an american will find that their efforts to have the gov't push their agenda will come back to haunt them 10 fold. When the gov't starts telling them what a good religion is, and that premium property is now taxable and exorbitant salaries paid in those megachurches is fully taxable and the word non-profit goes away all together in relationship to religions.
Its kind of like the folks that hate gays and want to impose their religious beliefs regarding gay marriage. I think the blow back will be the dissolution of state sanctioned religious marriages and the recognition of civil marriage, only, as a contract between two consenting adults with all the laws and property rights associated, just as it should be. Then the gov't will no longer be in the business of supporting religion, just as it shouldn't be in accordance with the only higher authority a gov't needs; the Constitution.
Do you think this belongs here?
Westboro at it again (http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20080513_china-earthquake.pdf)
Bet Topeka is extremely proud that Westboro claims it as their hometown.
Quote from: followsthewolf on May 18, 2008, 05:39:35 PM
Bet Topeka is extremely proud that Westboro claims it as their hometown.
They just might be. Kansas is full of strange people.
Including the nutbars that used to be on the school board that advocated teaching intelligent design in the schools.
Well I've never seen such a piece of pure out blasphemy in all my life. I venture out of the Church area and I can't believe what I've set my eyes on. This thread is pure filth and a stench in the nostrils of Almighty God!
Dude, you are way too tense. Might I suggest a game (http://christonthecrapper.com/toys/crucifun/) to help you relax?
:biggrin:
Quote from: Doc on June 26, 2008, 10:36:53 PM
Well I've never seen such a piece of pure out blasphemy in all my life. I venture out of the Church area and I can't believe what I've set my eyes on. This thread is pure filth and a stench in the nostrils of Almighty God!
I see I got your feathers all ruffled there Doc. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 27, 2008, 08:35:51 AM
Dude, you are way too tense. Might I suggest a game (http://christonthecrapper.com/toys/crucifun/) to help you relax?
LOL!! I've seen that somewhere before, but I don't recall where.
Quote from: Doc on June 26, 2008, 10:36:53 PM
Well I've never seen such a piece of pure out blasphemy in all my life. I venture out of the Church area and I can't believe what I've set my eyes on. This thread is pure filth and a stench in the nostrils of Almighty God!
Glad to see you not only know what god wants, says, does, or is, but you are hooked up to "his" olfactory glands. How does that work? I mean, prayer must have some "physical" properties (RF, or some other wavelengths). So, how is it you are in "god's mind"? I can sort of imagine that, but that really is the key to the whole thing, isn't it; imagination?
Not too good of a time to be in the gospel singing business. God seems to be after them. Here's another one:
LOGANTON, Pa. - Gospel singer the Rev. Timothy Wright was critically injured in a crash that killed his wife and a wrong-way driver, police in central Pennsylvania said Saturday.
A hospital spokesman said Wright was injured Friday night along with his 14-year-old grandson, D.J. Wright.
State police said 58-year-old Betty Wright of Roosevelt, N.Y., died in the three-vehicle crash on Interstate 80. The driver of the car that was going the wrong way also died.
Timothy Wright's latest album, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus," came out last year.
Geisinger Medical Center said a passenger in the third vehicle was in fair condition.
After just killing off Dottie Rambo back in May:
KNOXVILLE (WVLT) – KNOXVILLE (WVLT) – Gospel music legend Dottie Rambo, 74 was killed early Sunday morning when her tour bus ran off the road in southwest Missouri and struck an embankment.
Rambo played a show Saturday evening in Granite City, Illinois, and was headed to play a Sunday night show in North Richland Hills, Texas when the wreck occurred a couple miles east of Mount Vernon on I-44.
Representatives from her recording label confirmed to WVLT that the Kentucky native was asleep at the time of the accident, and her manager Larry Ferguson was on the bus along with his wife and two children.
The Missouri State Highway Patrol said a total of seven people were on the bus and injured in the accident. They were all hospitalized in Springfield with injuries ranging from moderate to severe.
Dottie Rambo was regarded as a legend throughout the musical community. She was born in the western Kentucky coal mining town of Madisonville and began singing when she was 12 years old.
She has published more than 2,500 songs, including "We Shall Behold Him," "Holy Spirit Though Art Welcome (In the Place)," and "I Go to the Rock."
She was awarded the 1968 Grammy for Best Soul Gospel Performance for "The Soul of Me."
In 2006, Former Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher approved Rambo's induction into the Kentucky Music Hall of Fame, and she was made a member of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2007.
Upon learning of her death, Dolly Parton issued a release calling Dottie, "a dear friend, fellow singer, songwriter and entertainer, and lately duet singing partner."
Doug Hutchison, who is the son of current Mulls Singing Convention host Charlotte Mull Hutchison and grandson of Rev. J. Bazzel Mull said Dottie devoted herself to music and the lord.
"She was in Illinois last night and headed to Texas for another concert today," he said. "It's hard to be sad for Dottie, because we know where she is."
It's hard to be sad for Dottie? They know where she is? :rolleyes:
The evidence just keeps rolling in that God sucks and really doesn't give much of a damn about the people out to serve him.
I'm glad you posted this. I saw the same stories and immediately thought of this thread. :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on July 05, 2008, 08:35:11 PM
The evidence just keeps rolling in that God sucks and really doesn't give much of a damn about the people out to serve him.
It is only because you refuse to understand what it is to be a Christian....all the more reason to accept the free will theory that God tells us about....since the begginning of Adam....when the fall began..........we are ALL subject to the percussions of our own sins..........
Why God chooses to take some people and protect others.........is like the saying goes..."Only God knows"........and that is truly sufficient enough for Christians....
I lost my own Pastor, friend and mentor about two years ago.....it was extremely painful, and I could not figure out WHY God would take a man who was able to mentor and touch so many people as he did..........but, my pastor, though was deathly ill.....continued to Preach and praise God up until the moment he died....and by this I beleive God was able to show me how great He actual IS.....that He does have a promise to all of us....and He IS in complete controll.....and despite our human emotional responses.....that He can still touch us personaly and give us peace even during horrible times.
Man sues Tenn. church for injuries after claiming spirit of God forced him to fall
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. - A man says he was so consumed by the spirit of God that he fell and hit his head while worshipping.
Now he wants Lakewind Church to pay $2.5 million for medical bills, lost income, and pain and suffering.
Matt Lincoln says he is suing after the church's insurance company denied his claim for medical bills.
The 57-year-old has had two surgeries since the June 2007 injury but still feels pain in his back and legs.
He says he was asking God to have "a real experience" while praying.
http://www.startribune.com/nation/24315059.html (http://www.startribune.com/nation/24315059.html)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/215102263_3743606da3.jpg?v=0)
LMAO! So I wonder what he considers to be his "real experience"? Crackin' his noggin' or getting told to get lost by the insurance company? :biggrin:
This story is nuts in SO many ways ;D
y'know, using these cases of death and suffering as evidence that god doesn't care about us is intellectually dishonest. there's also the possibility that death and suffering don't mean diddly to god.
the most that can be said is that god doesn't care about the same things you and i care about.
Death is the culmination of life. It's expected. I think that we ask for our experiences in life and God graciously allows it because they are OUR lessons to learn. Including pain and suffering.
Quote from: pariann on July 11, 2008, 12:05:19 PM
Death is the culmination of life. It's expected. I think that we ask for our experiences in life and God graciously allows it because they are OUR lessons to learn. Including pain and suffering.
Sorry, but shit happens; good, bad, etc. AND, there is nothing behind it. We do good and bad things. We make good and bad decisions. We are the master of our own fates, but quite often, shit happens and it's no one's fault, especially some deity's.
There are about 300,000,000 US citizens and a 1,000,000 to 1 thing happens about 300 times per day. Its random and no amount of superstition, mythology or theology (I realize that is a redundant sequence, unlike most) will change what happens, good or bad.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 11, 2008, 10:48:34 AM
LMAO! So I wonder what he considers to be his "real experience"? Crackin' his noggin' or getting told to get lost by the insurance company? :biggrin:
This story is nuts in SO many ways ;D
Really whacked. Wonder why god didn't either break his fall or get him a check from the insurance company? Most mortals could have at least done either of those things :biggrin:
You believe what you want to believe, I'll believe what I believe.
Quote from: awol on July 11, 2008, 11:40:47 AM
y'know, using these cases of death and suffering as evidence that god doesn't care about us is intellectually dishonest. there's also the possibility that death and suffering don't mean diddly to god.
the most that can be said is that god doesn't care about the same things you and i care about.
ya may be right awol........and i'm not claiming i even remotely know the mind of God.....BUT, Jesus wept on occasions...i.e Lazuras....He also, had blood of sweat disperse before His day of crusificition....I think God does very much know all about suffering...........He made us after his own image.......I don't think there is ANY "intellectually" dishonesty in using cases of death and suffering.......
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 11, 2008, 04:03:59 PM
ya may be right awol........and i'm not claiming i even remotely know the mind of God.....BUT, Jesus wept on occasions...i.e Lazuras....He also, had blood of sweat disperse before His day of crusificition....I think God does very much know all about suffering...........He made us after his own image.......I don't think there is ANY "intellectually" dishonesty in using cases of death and suffering.......
Jesus had a quick ending and suffered nothing like the families who were drown by god in the flood. Heck, I would bet McLame suffered more than jesus. So, why is "his" death of some importance?
While crucification is indeed a horrible way to die, there are documented cases of even worse crucifictions than Jesus. The Romans documented many times in which leaders of rebellions were crucified and kept alive, nailed to a cross on the side of the road, for days, then smear in meat so the wild animals would tear him apart. Very gruesome. Holocaust survivors tell tales of suffering that never ended. Jesus death on the cross wasn't even the worst that you could go through then. It seems rather over dramatic to make his death something more than it was to make it seem like it was greater than all just so he could die for everyones sins. If all sin was that easily cleansed, then why need a death at all? After all, god makes the rules right? If god makes the rules, then he could have just as easily forgiven everyones sins without anyone dying but chose not too. If god is all powerful, then god didn't NEED any sacrifice to forgive sins, he just required it. What kind of being requires death to obtain his forgiveness? No father would ever be accepted to do that.
It is gods will for him to have a "wonderful" experience then run up huge medical bills that ruin him financially. :yes:
Quote from: konquererz on July 14, 2008, 01:09:30 PM
It is gods will for him to have a "wonderful" experience then run up huge medical bills that ruin him financially. :yes:
Yep; "sucker born every minute".
Quote from: konquererz on July 14, 2008, 12:18:55 PM
While crucification is indeed a horrible way to die, there are documented cases of even worse crucifictions than Jesus. The Romans documented many times in which leaders of rebellions were crucified and kept alive, nailed to a cross on the side of the road, for days, then smear in meat so the wild animals would tear him apart. Very gruesome. Holocaust survivors tell tales of suffering that never ended. Jesus death on the cross wasn't even the worst that you could go through then. It seems rather over dramatic to make his death something more than it was to make it seem like it was greater than all just so he could die for everyones sins. If all sin was that easily cleansed, then why need a death at all? After all, god makes the rules right? If god makes the rules, then he could have just as easily forgiven everyones sins without anyone dying but chose not too. If god is all powerful, then god didn't NEED any sacrifice to forgive sins, he just required it. What kind of being requires death to obtain his forgiveness? No father would ever be accepted to do that.
I am still trying to find out why "he" moved up from burnt lamb to human sacrifice. Of course, one needs to find out why any blood is needed to provide forgiveness. I am waiting for a christian to explain exactly how that cosmic blood for sin bank worked (works). There must be some physics behind it easily reproducible in the Intelligunt Dezine labs. :biggrin:
He didn't move up. There are several well placed instances of human sacrifice. Abraham and Isaac, a man who asked god for victory and he would sacrifice the first person who came out the door, it was his daughter, and she was sacrificed, and a couple other instances I'm just too lazy to look up. Isaac was the only child that lived, all the others were sacrificed. This was borrowed too.
Quote from: konquererz on July 15, 2008, 02:00:40 PM
He didn't move up. There are several well placed instances of human sacrifice. Abraham and Isaac, a man who asked god for victory and he would sacrifice the first person who came out the door, it was his daughter, and she was sacrificed, and a couple other instances I'm just too lazy to look up. Isaac was the only child that lived, all the others were sacrificed. This was borrowed too.
Yes. You are correct. Its just that the jesus one gets all the attention for its "sacrifice" for sin which was an update to "sacrifice" for praise. There are scores of beings that were "given up" to god (killed) by the holy, devout, or just chosen ones.
People just have this self loathing that they think they are so horrible that someone must die to make everything okay. Its really quit the phenomena if you ask me. Why do people feel like they are so guilty that someone must have died for them? In the end, if you don't believe that someone ever needed to die for you, then you don't go this route.
Quote from: konquererz on July 16, 2008, 12:18:13 PM
People just have this self loathing that they think they are so horrible that someone must die to make everything okay. Its really quit the phenomena if you ask me. Why do people feel like they are so guilty that someone must have died for them? In the end, if you don't believe that someone ever needed to die for you, then you don't go this route.
I think the whole blood for sin thing is even more simplistic; blood was recognized as a universal constant for life ("blood all looks the same, when you open up the vein" --World Party), so a deity would surely cherish that above all other aspects of a human body (except for the jews and their foreskins). So, one had to "give up" blood to the god to either praise "him" or in order to get forgiveness. I'm still looking for that Dr Who Bank in the Sky. :biggrin:
So, christians had to have a blood sacrifice. Jews, not believing in jesus, just still have to give up their foreskins.... :eek:
Quote from: konquererz on July 14, 2008, 12:18:55 PM
If all sin was that easily cleansed, then why need a death at all? After all, god makes the rules right? If god makes the rules, then he could have just as easily forgiven everyones sins without anyone dying but chose not too. If god is all powerful, then god didn't NEED any sacrifice to forgive sins, he just required it. What kind of being requires death to obtain his forgiveness? No father would ever be accepted to do that.
Kind of an odd way for an omnipotent being to show his 'love'; huh?
Another question that comes to mind is whether or not anything was even sacrificed. If Jesus rose on the third day, that means he wasn't really dead at all. How can it be claimed that he sacrificed his life if he wasn't dead?
Hey now! This topic belongs on the God Sucks thread. ;D
Gods will does not suck. This man shouldn't b!tch or else god will really get him next time. If he gets dropped and hurt from a blessing, just imagine what a curse will bring! :eek: :icon_twisted:
You have free will right? You can chose utter servitude to god or die and burn forever. Sounds like a great thing for a loving god to offer no?
I think the guy should sue god (since he obviously believes there is one).
Imagine the possibilities for all those whack-jobs out there.
Shew.
Yeah, but how would he collect if judgment were rendered in his favor? ;D
He could demand access to heaven on a routine basis while he's still alive.
He couldn't possibly deny that he wasn't received by god, since the supreme being answers all prayer, etc.
Quote from: Locutus on July 17, 2008, 01:28:31 PM
Hey now! This topic belongs on the God Sucks thread. ;D
Agree, can we move it as part of that thread?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 17, 2008, 11:57:22 AM
Kind of an odd way for an omnipotent being to show his 'love'; huh?
Another question that comes to mind is whether or not anything was even sacrificed. If Jesus rose on the third day, that means he wasn't really dead at all. How can it be claimed that he sacrificed his life if he wasn't dead?
We was robbed, goddamn it! :eek:
I don't think it matters that much. LOL! The whole damn story is funny as hell. ;D
And it does show that god sucks too. Sent down a heapin' helpin' of the holy ghosty, knocked the dolt on his arse, and then didn't even bother to make sure there was someone behind him to catch him. :biggrin: :bible: :preach:
Quote from: Locutus on July 21, 2008, 04:48:36 PM
And it does show that god sucks too. Sent down a heapin' helpin' of the holy ghosty, knocked the dolt on his arse, and then didn't even bother to make sure there was someone behind him to catch him. :biggrin: :bible: :preach:
How is it the holy spirit can trip someone and make them fall, but can't catch anyone, as well? Is there a different physics for tripping and catching. Of course, the physics of religions is surely a mystery (pad catholic answer to questions they don't want to answer).
Good hitter; can't catch.
In baseball terms: Good bat, no glove.
Quote from: followsthewolf on July 23, 2008, 05:23:41 AM
Good hitter; can't catch.
In baseball terms: Good bat, no glove.
:smile:
QuoteKNOXVILLE, Tenn. (Associated Press) -- A gunman opened fire at a church youth performance Sunday and killed two people, including a man who witnesses called a hero for shielding others from a shotgun blast.
Seven adults were also injured but no children were harmed at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. Church members said they dove under pews or ran from the building when the shooting started.
SOSD (http://sandiego.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D926IFB00&_action=validatearticle)
Gawd allowed another one of those crazy fuggers' to come a callin' at another church. :yes: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on July 28, 2008, 01:18:13 PM
Gawd allowed another one of those crazy fuggers' to come a callin' at another church. :yes: ;D
Why is everything's God's fault? Maybe take a look at the gunman if you want to point fingers. Every person chooses for himself/herself what actions they take. Blaming God (or any other) removes all responsibility from the gunman. That hardly seems right.
Quote from: has_been on July 28, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
Why is everything's God's fault? Maybe take a look at the gunman if you want to point fingers. Every person chooses for himself/herself what actions they take. Blaming God (or any other) removes all responsibility from the gunman. That hardly seems right.
You're missing the point of the thread. :wink:
Quote from: has_been on July 28, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
Why is everything's God's fault? Maybe take a look at the gunman if you want to point fingers. Every person chooses for himself/herself what actions they take. Blaming God (or any other) removes all responsibility from the gunman. That hardly seems right.
People continually thank god for the good. If god is positively impacting the world, and he is in control of everything, then don't try and short god for credit for everything. God obviously had to ALLOW it to happen, (I wouldn't but hey, whats a few measly humans if you're god?) so this is inherently gods fault, for allowing it to happen.
Which brings us to the topic. That is why god sucks. :yes:
Quote from: konquererz on July 28, 2008, 03:44:47 PM
People continually thank god for the good. If god is positively impacting the world, and he is in control of everything, then don't try and short god for credit for everything. God obviously had to ALLOW it to happen, (I wouldn't but hey, whats a few measly humans if you're god?) so this is inherently gods fault, for allowing it to happen.
Which brings us to the topic. That is why god sucks. :yes:
THAT's the point of the thread. :yes:
Yep, while these whack jobs are praying to geebuz to give them a miracle that allows their son's little league team to win the championship, he can't be bothered to prevent the rape and murder of an innocent child.
can I interrupt the regularly scheduled program...
have you guys stopped and read some of the things you are saying?.... ;D
all, i can say, and I'm sure you won't give a rats ass...but, it is clear and simple, you have NO CLUE to what it is, to be a Christian, NOR, do you remotely understand the BIBLE the way it is 100%, with-out-a-doubt INTENDED....you have completely closed your minds...
and, now, this is just my opinion....but it seems to me like this whole thread is nothing but you guys trying to convince each other that you are right...it is an atheist smorgasbord....like AA, Atheist Anonymous......you do nothing but BASH Christians on here........it is just an observation....maybe, I just don't see it YOUR way...but...just my two cents..........
back to your regularly scheduled God bashing... :razz:
Ok, I'll go again:
ABBOTSFORD, British Columbia (AP) _ A Romanian immigrant has given birth to her 18th child in British Columbia, making her the province's most prolific mother in 20 years.
Proud dad Alexandru Ionce said Saturday that his 44-year-old wife, Livia, gave birth on July 22. Their daughter Abigail weighed in at 7 pounds, 12 ounces (3.5 kilograms).
"We never planned how many children to have. We just let God guide our lives, you know, because we strongly believe life comes from God and that's the reason we did not stop the life," Alexandru Ionce said.
The couple immigrated to Canada from Romania in 1990 and now live in Abbotsford. Their 17 other children range in age from 20 months to 23 years.
Ionce said he did not know if the couple would have more children. The family now has 10 girls and eight boys.
"We would have liked a boy to be even," he said. "We thank God all of them are healthy and happy."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/custom/fringe/sns-ap-odd-18th-child,0,6387255.story
:mad: :mad:
Why is it that the Gawd freaks are the ones doing irresponsible things like fuckin' like rabbits without birth control and adding more than their fair share of progeny to this already overcrowded planet??
Quote from: Locutus on July 29, 2008, 10:38:48 AM
Ok, I'll go again:
ABBOTSFORD, British Columbia (AP) _ A Romanian immigrant has given birth to her 18th child in British Columbia, making her the province's most prolific mother in 20 years.
Proud dad Alexandru Ionce said Saturday that his 44-year-old wife, Livia, gave birth on July 22. Their daughter Abigail weighed in at 7 pounds, 12 ounces (3.5 kilograms).
"We never planned how many children to have. We just let God guide our lives, you know, because we strongly believe life comes from God and that's the reason we did not stop the life," Alexandru Ionce said.
The couple immigrated to Canada from Romania in 1990 and now live in Abbotsford. Their 17 other children range in age from 20 months to 23 years.
Ionce said he did not know if the couple would have more children. The family now has 10 girls and eight boys.
"We would have liked a boy to be even," he said. "We thank God all of them are healthy and happy."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/custom/fringe/sns-ap-odd-18th-child,0,6387255.story
:mad: :mad:
Why is it that the Gawd freaks are the ones doing irresponsible things like fuckin' like rabbits without birth control and adding more than their fair share of progeny to this already overcrowded planet??
at least these kids are being raised in a loving family and taken care off..........un-like the millions of kids who have fathers who ditch them after they get through with momma.......maybe, if they had a little old fashion religion instilled in them...they would want to be responsilbe for their actions.........It's the people who take God serious are the one's who are raising them with a loving mother and father...and are NOT expecting the government to raise them......I'm all in favor of God Freaks....we need more of them.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 10:52:02 AM
at least these kids are being raised in a loving family and taken care off..........un-like the millions of kids who have fathers who ditch them after they get through with momma.......maybe, if they had a little old fashion religion instilled in them...they would want to be responsilbe for their actions.........It's the people who take God serious are the one's who are raising them with a loving mother and father...and are NOT expecting the government to raise them......I'm all in favor of God Freaks....we need more of them.... :yes:
You can't be serious Henry. We need more Gawd Freaks like these two who clearly
aren't responsible? If they're responsible, why not use some sort of birth control. 18 fuggin' kids. There's absolutely nothing responsible about that at all.
Quote from: Locutus on July 29, 2008, 11:06:10 AM
You can't be serious Henry. We need more Gawd Freaks like these two who clearly aren't responsible? If they're responsible, why not use some sort of birth control. 18 fuggin' kids. There's absolutely nothing responsible about that at all.
are you serious?......are they costing you any more tax dollars?............are they harming you in any way, shape or form?........how is any of your business if they want to have 50 kids? are you saying I'm wrong for having five kids?...........do you think we need gov to step in and decide how many kids we can have?...........are you freakin kiddin me?..........
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 11:09:21 AM
are you serious?......are they costing you any more tax dollars?............are they harming you in any way, shape or form?........how is any of your business if they want to have 50 kids? are you saying I'm wrong for having five kids?...........do you think we need gov to step in and decide how many kids we can have?...........are you freakin kiddin me?..........
No I'm not kidding you at all HH. There are entirely TOO many people on this planet as it is right now. Think of how much of our planet's resources these two irresponsible adults will be responsible for consuming via their offspring. Yes, I'm saying that 18 kids is far too many for a couple to have.
Almost every time you run across this kind of shit, it's a religious whack-job that won't put on a damn condom before he bops his wife. Having 18 kids is irresponsible, pure, flat out, and simple.
Quote from: Locutus on July 29, 2008, 11:24:24 AM
No I'm not kidding you at all HH. There are entirely TOO many people on this planet as it is right now. Think of how much of our planet's resources these two irresponsible adults will be responsible for consuming via their offspring. Yes, I'm saying that 18 kids is far too many for a couple to have. Almost every time you run across this kind of shit, it's a religious whack-job that won't put on a damn condom before he bops his wife. Having 18 kids is irresponsible, pure, flat out, and simple.
your crazy....people like these take care of themselves......why don't you get bent out of shape and slam the ones who don't wear condoms...intentionaly...that have babies without NO intention of raising them........leaving them for the taxpayers to take care of?..............you defend those rights, but for a nice, Christian family who wants to raise kids.........at their own expense.........you blow a gasket.....
this pisses me off....the freakin hypocritical attitudes of the self-freakin-rightious..."i'm worried about our planet" bullshit......
this is most ludicrious statement you have EVER made...and I HAVE lost respect for you......you have made it personal...you simply don't like this family because of thier faith in God...and that pisses yo off.... :mad:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 11:36:48 AM
your crazy....people like these take care of themselves......why don't you get bent out of shape and slam the ones who don't wear condoms...intentionaly...that have babies without NO intention of raising them........leaving them for the taxpayers to take care of?..............you defend those rights, but for a nice, Christian family who wants to raise kids.........at their own expense.........you blow a gasket.....
this pisses me off....the freakin hypocritical attitudes of the self-freakin-rightious..."i'm worried about our planet" bullshit......
this is most ludicrious statement you have EVER made...and I HAVE lost respect for you......you have made it personal...you simply don't like this family because of thier faith in God...and that pisses yo off.... :mad:
That's NOT what I said at all Henry. I dislike their actions based on their belief in Gawd. It's irresponsible. And you're reading far more into my argument than what's there. You'd be hard pressed to find anywhere where I've defended anyone who has a child without the intention of rearing it. You won't find it because there isn't a post anywhere where I've defended such. I hold those people in disdain as well.
But my claim is a valid one. Here's another instance just recently where ole' Gawd is guiding his followers to have all the damn kids they want.
Mom pregnant with 18th child
Michelle Duggar gives her kids a Mother's Day surprise: 'We're expecting!'
By Bob Considine
TODAYShow.com contributor
updated 9:35 a.m. ET, Fri., May. 9, 2008
The Duggar kids planned a big Mother's Day surprise for their mom this year. But the surprise was on them when Michelle Duggar announced on the TODAY Show that they were soon to welcome an 18th sibling.
"We're expecting!" the happy mother told TODAY co-host Meredith Vieira and the entire Arkansas clan. "Number 18!
"They didn't know. My girls watch the calendar like a hawk. We just found out on Monday night."
"On Monday night she brought one of the [pregnancy] testers in," Michelle's husband Jim Bob added. "I wanted to bring it with me, but she wouldn't let me."
And baby, due around New Year's Day, would make 20.
Joshua, the Duggars' eldest son, said the news, two days before Mother's Day was "a shock" — if only to a point.
"I wasn't expecting that," the 20-year-old said. "But it's been nine months [since the birth of the last baby], so yeah."
Family forest
To date, the Duggars' 17 natural children range in age from 20 years to 9 months. Included in the mix are 10 boys and seven girls — Joshua, twins Jana and John-David, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy-Anna, twins Jedidiah and Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah and baby Jennifer, who arrived last Aug. 2.
With two sets of twins, Michelle, 41, has gone through 15 pregnancies that ended in 13 natural deliveries and two Caesarean sections.
Both Michelle and Jim Bob — a former state legislator who served in the Arkansas House of Representatives — are real estate agents. They claim their family is debt-free, with the entire bunch helping to build their 7,000-square-foot home in Tontitown. And they are enriched by a devout faith in their religion.
The Duggars are followers of the evangelical Christian movement called Quiverful, which teaches that children are God's blessing and that husbands and wives should happily welcome every child they are given. In fact, the Duggars' Web site, duggarfamily.com, quotes "Children are a heritage of the Lord" from verse 3 of the 123rd Psalm.
"We just let the Lord decide," Jim Bob, 42, told Vieira."They are such a gift and we're enjoying them so much," Michelle added. "We would love more, and the power of the Lord took our faith to give us another one."
The Duggars married in 1984, when Michelle was 17 and Jim Bob was 19. They held off on having kids for four years before Michelle ceased taking birth control pills to have their first child. After Joshua was born in 1988, Michelle returned to birth control but wound up getting pregnant anyway. Unfortunately, she suffered a miscarriage, which the couple attributed to use of the pill.
Michelle and Jim Bob decided to pray for as many children as God would give them. Within a year, Michelle was pregnant with the first of their two sets of twins.
Their large number of offspring has meant other large numbers for the Duggars. Michelle has been pregnant for 135 months of her life, with an average of 18 months between births. The family estimates it has used 90,000 diapers and launders 200 loads of clothes each month in a row of industrial-size washers and dryers.
Even though they go through three loaves of bread per day, they claim to feed their family for less than $2,000 a month. Transportation is facilitated by nine vehicles, led by a 21-passenger bus. They estimate that all members of the family have combined to work approximately 39,000 hours on their home.
Each child learns to play both violin and piano. And for what it's worth, when child No. 18 arrives, they'll have enough kids to field two baseball teams.
Most importantly, there is a unique dedication to serve the greater good of the home and family. An older child will take on the responsibility of a younger sibling throughout the day. The children help prepare meals and keep to a steady home-schooling schedule. Group studies include materials from Advanced Training Institute International, a Bible-based education program for families.
The Duggars' daily adventures are currently being chronicled in a television series on the Discovery Health channel. They previously participated in another Discovery Health series, "On the Road with 16 Kids."
A happy Mother's Day
To celebrate the latest addition to the Duggar clan, the TODAY Show planned their own surprise for Michelle by sending her children out to either shop or make new gifts for their busy mother.
The main gifts, picked by all the kids, included a ring Michelle saw and liked in a used jewelry store two weeks ago, as well as a pearl necklace and matching earrings. The older girls, Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger, picked out an outfit for their mom designed for "in-between" stages of pregnancy.
And, for a fitting gift that keeps on giving, all of the kids went in on a coffeemaker. "She always has to make so much, so we got a big one for her," Jessa said.
The final present was a large, cardboard card with each of the children's handprints posted in paint, along with a loving message.
"They thought they'd give their a mom surprise," Jim Bob said. "But she gave them a surprise."
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24537885/
Religious whack jobs piss me off be they people fuckin' like rabbits and crankin' out kids in Gawd's name, or fundamentalist muslims flying planes into buildings.
It's all nuts. We need less religion in the world and more sensible people who are willing to take responsibility for their own actions.
It seems to me you want laws in place to keep people from practicing their religion...i'm I right?...who gives a flip about the Duggars?...They seem to be a fantastic family....they are doing on their own...they praise God for everything they have....the are not asking for government help....they are being extremely responsible...those kids are being very well educated and are being loved....in my opinon we need MORE religious whack jobs like the duggars...........this would be a much better world if people would take the attitude that they do......they are feeding, teaching, loving, clothing their own kids.....
don't even try to compare these guys to the fucking lunitics that killed Americans on Sept 11, 2001....
I don't think I am at all reading more into your arguement.........you are a raciest against Christians....plain and fucking simple......
excuse my language today....but this is the first time I have EVER felt the need to express myself as clear as I am right now....
you are a BIGOT!....no different than the boys wearing white hoods................you don't like a group of people because you don't agree with the way the think.....
i'm sick to death of the anti-Christian people ..... acting as if they have the fucking answers to the worlds problems.....you attack Christians for the very thing you are doing.........................TAKE A LONG FUCKING LOOK IN THE MIRROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Locutus on July 29, 2008, 11:45:09 AM
Religious whack jobs piss me off be they people fuckin' like rabbits and crankin' out kids in Gawd's name, or fundamentalist muslims flying planes into buildings.
It's all nuts. We need less religion in the world and more sensible people who are willing to take responsibility for their own actions.
Most Christians DO take responsibility for their own actions...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 11:36:48 AM
your crazy....people like these take care of themselves......why don't you get bent out of shape and slam the ones who don't wear condoms...intentionaly...that have babies without NO intention of raising them........leaving them for the taxpayers to take care of?..............you defend those rights, but for a nice, Christian family who wants to raise kids.........at their own expense.........you blow a gasket.....
this pisses me off....the freakin hypocritical attitudes of the self-freakin-rightious..."i'm worried about our planet" bullshit......
this is most ludicrious statement you have EVER made...and I HAVE lost respect for you......you have made it personal...you simply don't like this family because of thier faith in God...and that pisses yo off.... :mad:
Where's the need to serve God when it comes to children like this:
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=8835.0
It seems to me that if they were honestly trying to please God that they would let go of the ego trip of trying to single handedly populate the already overcrowded earth and take care of the need that already exists.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 29, 2008, 11:59:09 AM
Where's the need to serve God when it comes to children like this:
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=8835.0
It seems to me that if they were honestly trying to please God that they would let go of the ego trip of trying to single handedly populate the already overcrowded earth and take care of the need that already exists.
Okay, explain yourself a little better before I jump the gun.....how does a family who decided to have 18 kids, and they are taking care of them...independently.....how does it become thier problem to solve other peoples mistakes?.....
because they believe in God?.....they should not have ANY kids right?............and take care of the homeless kids?...........is THAT what you are trying to say?....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 12:12:05 PM
Okay, explain yourself a little better before I jump the gun.....how does a family who decided to have 18 kids, and they are taking care of them...independently.....how does it become thier problem to solve other peoples mistakes?.....
because they believe in God?.....they should not have ANY kids right?............and take care of the homeless kids?...........is THAT what you are trying to say?....
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there is a need which is being ignored. I personally think that anyone that has 18 children, regardless of their rational, is irresponsible. It just so happens in this case that they cite god.
There are plenty of children that are already born that could use a family. If it were less about ego and circulating their specific DNA and more about god then wouldn't it make sense that they would be adopting unwanted children? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do? They could have adopted 9 and still had 9 biological children. Which, IMO is still too many.
The Earth is already crowded. There's an existing need. It's as simple as that.
Christians want to be placed on a pedestal of being cast in the image of god...loving, compassionate, blah blah blah, but when the rubber meets the road like in this case they're full of excuses as to why it's not their responsiblity and it becomes glaringly obvious that they're serving themselves rather that the god they claim to serve.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 29, 2008, 12:29:30 PM
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there is a need which is being ignored. I personally think that anyone that has 18 children, regardless of their rational, is irresponsible. It just so happens in this case that they cite god.
There are plenty of children that are already born that could use a family. If it were less about ego and circulating their specific DNA and more about god then wouldn't it make sense that they would be adopting unwanted children? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do? They could have adopted 9 and still had 9 biological children. Which, IMO is still too many.
The Earth is already crowded. There's an existing need. It's as simple as that.
Christians want to be placed on a pedestal of being cast in the image of god...loving, compassionate, blah blah blah, but when the rubber meets the road like in this case they're full of excuses as to why it's not their responsiblity.
WHAT IS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBLITY???? WHAT EXCUSES???
Do you really think that because the duggars had 18 kids the World is now overcrowded?......
Why don't liberals bitch about the people out there who HAVE NO business having kids.........the one's that don't have a job...the ones that did not graduate high school....the ones that are having sex with several partners........................gimma break guys.
hypocrites is the only logical word that comes to my mind.....and oh....bigot is another.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 12:34:52 PM
WHAT IS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBLITY???? WHAT EXCUSES???
Do you really think that because the duggars had 18 kids the World is now overcrowded?......
Why don't liberals bitch about the people out there who HAVE NO business having kids.........the one's that don't have a job...the ones that did not graduate high school....the ones that are having sex with several partners........................gimma break guys.
hypocrites is the only logical word that comes to my mind.....and oh....bigot is another.... :yes:
You toss around words apparently w/out knowing their meaning. I'm not a bigot and I'm not a hypocrite. Where have you ever seen me say that people who can't afford to or don't have the fortitutde to take care of their offspring should have children. Where, Henry?
I'm pro sex education/birth control/choice, remember? I think that the number of unwanted pregnancies should be minimized prior to conception.
What does that have anything to do with the fact that there's already thousands of unwanted children..who have been born? Who's taking care of them?
Not the people who'd rather add to the population instead of doing the responsible thing and taking care of the present need.
Where have you been, Henry. The Earth is overpopulated and getting more so every day. That's a fact. While this family didn't do it singlehandedly, they didn't help the problem either, did they?
It's all about ego and nothing to do with god or god's work. Actions, Henry, actions.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 29, 2008, 12:48:07 PM
You toss around words apparently w/out knowing their meaning. I'm not a bigot and I'm not a hypocrite. Where have you ever seen me say that people who can't afford to or don't have the fortitutde to take care of their offspring should have children. Where, Henry?
I'm pro sex education/birth control/choice, remember? I think that the number of unwanted pregnancies should be minimized prior to conception.
What does that have anything to do with the fact that there's already thousands of unwanted children..who have been born? Who's taking care of them?
Not the people who'd rather add to the population instead of doing the responsible thing and taking care of the present need.
Where have you been, Henry. The Earth is overpopulated and getting more so every day. That's a fact. While this family didn't do it singlehandedly, they didn't help the problem either, did they?
It's all about ego and nothing to do with god or god's work. Actions, Henry, actions.
so, tell me how many kids is acceptable in your book?...it seems like you feel it is up to others to decide how many kids humans should have?
are you in favor of "laws" being put into place to correct this horrible problem?.....
Ya, know, this really get my ass...........EGO?? simply because a family wants to have several kids.........they have an ego, because they didnt run out and adopt a few kids?............
Sandy....I lump you into the group of bigots because....you don't like some people because they believ in God...
you just said so...these people put their faith that God will provide for their kids.........and because you think that is stupid..........you chastise them....
it is a form of bigotry .... 100%...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 11:09:21 AM
.....are they costing you any more tax dollars?............
Yes. They are. At the risk of ignoring the religious and moral aspects of the conversation, may I point out the Tax deduction that a family gets for each child?
I work with a guy (yeah, I know - heresay and all that rot but it's true) that brags about having 12 children just to get the tax deduction.
Meanwhile, I pay through the nose.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 12:54:29 PM
so, tell me how many kids is acceptable in your book?...it seems like you feel it is up to others to decide how many kids humans should have?
are you in favor of "laws" being put into place to correct this horrible problem?.....
Ya, know, this really get my ass...........EGO?? simply because a family wants to have several kids.........they have an ego, because they didnt run out and adopt a few kids?............
Sandy....I lump you into the group of bigots because....you don't like some people because they believ in God...
you just said so...these people put their faith that God will provide for their kids.........and because you think that is stupid..........you chastise them....
it is a form of bigotry .... 100%...
Where have I ever said that I don't like people who believe in God? You say that as if that would be my sole reason for not liking someone. You have an example to cite?
If you'll go back and read, I said that I think that anyone that has that many children is irresponsible, regardless of what they claim the reason is...didn't I? So, I guess that I'd chastise anyone w/so much of an ego that they'd rather bring 18 new lives into an overpopulated world, than take care of present need. If someone truly felt the need to have that many children, then what would be wrong w/adopting some children? They'd still be their children. Ahhhh, but the DNA would be different :rolleyes:. That's why I say it's all about ego.
In this case, they claim it's religion that inspired this irresponsible breeding. They said that, not me. I guess they leave their concern for humanity on the nightstand w/their birthcontrol and bible, huh?
the bottom line is...................it seems to me that there is some mercy upon the poor, single mother, who screws several partners and has several kids...........but, a married couple, who are Christians, decides to have a large family.....home-school them, raise them in a loving enviorment, clothes them, and teaches them to be responsible human-beings....are being trashed as scum, because they are over-populating the earth.....and not adopting other peoples kids.....
that is it in a nutshell.
piya, you still never answered me....how many kids should a family be allowed to have before they are being poor stewards of this earth?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 01:11:39 PM
the bottom line is...................it seems to me that there is some mercy upon the poor, single mother, who screws several partners and has several kids...........
Where?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 01:11:39 PM
but, a married couple, who are Christians, decides to have a large family.....home-school them, raise them in a loving enviorment, clothes them, and teaches them to be responsible human-beings....are being trashed as scum, because they are over-populating the earth.....and not adopting other peoples kids.....
So, it's all about the children being "other peoples" and to hell w/the fact that the children that have no place to turn right?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 01:11:39 PM
that is it in a nutshell.
Thought so.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 01:11:39 PM
piya, you still never answered me....how many kids should a family be allowed to have before they are being poor stewards of this earth?
So, if I toss out a number for you then you think you can twist this to justify having 18 children as not being irresponsible. It doesn't work like that. If I had to be honest, then I think bringing one child into this over populated and uncompassionate world is probably irresponsible.
I wouldn't change one thing about my decision to have my daughter. Am I irresponsible? Probably, because my desire to have a child was greater than any concern for the planet or even what her life on the planet will be 30 years down the line. I teach her to be a good steward and I believe that she do great things in her life, however, I wasn't thinking about that then. All I thought about was how much I wanted her. Would I like to have more children, sure. I'd love to fill my house w/children, but if I do, it more than likely won't be because I physically conceived them.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 29, 2008, 01:34:22 PM
Where?
well, our gov feels enough mercy to allow them "freebies".....
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 29, 2008, 01:34:22 PM
So, it's all about the children being "other peoples" and to hell w/the fact that the children that have no place to turn right?
not at all, but dont condeme people who ARE taking care of their very own....
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 29, 2008, 01:34:22 PM
So, if I toss out a number for you then you think you can twist this to justify having 18 children as not being irresponsible. It doesn't work like that. If I had to be honest, then I think bringing one child into this over populated and uncompassionate world is probably irresponsible.
I wouldn't change one thing about my decision to have my daughter. Am I irresponsible? Probably, because my desire to have a child was greater than any concern for the planet or even what her life on the planet will be 30 years down the line. I teach her to be a good steward and I believe that she do great things in her life, however, I wasn't thinking about that then. All I thought about was how much I wanted her. Would I like to have more children, sure. I'd love to fill my house w/children, but if I do, it more than likely won't be because I physically conceived them.
that was a very good answer.... ;D...are you running for office out there?... :yes: :razz:
Quote from: Bo D on July 29, 2008, 12:58:55 PM
Yes. They are. At the risk of ignoring the religious and moral aspects of the conversation, may I point out the Tax deduction that a family gets for each child?
I work with a guy (yeah, I know - heresay and all that rot but it's true) that brags about having 12 children just to get the tax deduction.
Meanwhile, I pay through the nose.
now, wait just a minute......look at it this way.....just think of the taxes that these 18 kids will generate over the coarse of thier lives.....they are being responsibly raised and educated........heck, there might be a few doctors that come from them......and WOW, the taxes they will contribute to this country..........ALL because of the loving, responsible Christian couple who decided to trust God and have a large family.... ;) :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 01:49:37 PM
........heck, there might be a few doctors that come from them......
On the other hand, there also may be some
lawyers among them.
:devilish:
:gha: :groan:
Quote from: Bo D on July 29, 2008, 02:04:47 PM
On the other hand, there also may be some lawyers among them.
:devilish:
:gha: :groan:
ya always gotta find the negative ..... don't ya.... :razz: ;D
wow, just the thought makes my skin crawl... ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 02:06:29 PM
ya always gotta find the negative ..... don't ya....
Please don't think of it that way. I'm an old programmer. I have to consider all possibilities of every action.
It's my job, man!
:icon_twisted:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 08:51:53 AM
can I interrupt the regularly scheduled program...
have you guys stopped and read some of the things you are saying?.... ;D
all, i can say, and I'm sure you won't give a rats ass...but, it is clear and simple, you have NO CLUE to what it is, to be a Christian, NOR, do you remotely understand the BIBLE the way it is 100%, with-out-a-doubt INTENDED....you have completely closed your minds...
and, now, this is just my opinion....but it seems to me like this whole thread is nothing but you guys trying to convince each other that you are right...it is an atheist smorgasbord....like AA, Atheist Anonymous......you do nothing but BASH Christians on here........it is just an observation....maybe, I just don't see it YOUR way...but...just my two cents..........
back to your regularly scheduled God bashing... :razz:
I think what it actually boils down to is no one knows for sure. Sometimes I think the theory I heard one time about us being evolved from alien droppings makes more sense than anything. That, to me explains angels from heaven and the whole nine yards. And now that I have given everyone their laugh for the evening on with the conversation. :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 08:51:53 AM
can I interrupt the regularly scheduled program...
have you guys stopped and read some of the things you are saying?.... ;D
all, i can say, and I'm sure you won't give a rats ass...but, it is clear and simple, you have NO CLUE to what it is, to be a Christian, NOR, do you remotely understand the BIBLE the way it is 100%, with-out-a-doubt INTENDED....you have completely closed your minds...
and, now, this is just my opinion....but it seems to me like this whole thread is nothing but you guys trying to convince each other that you are right...it is an atheist smorgasbord....like AA, Atheist Anonymous......you do nothing but BASH Christians on here........it is just an observation....maybe, I just don't see it YOUR way...but...just my two cents..........
back to your regularly scheduled God bashing... :razz:
I HEAR YA!!!
You and Henry are both wrong.
Why is it when someone poses a questions to a Christian (maybe other faiths too, but they're under represented here :smile:) that they can't answer, they consider it bashing. That's aside from missing the originial point of the thread. Or may that's why you're missing it..
At any rate here it is:
Quote from: konquererz on July 28, 2008, 03:44:47 PM
People continually thank god for the good. If god is positively impacting the world, and he is in control of everything, then don't try and short god for credit for everything. God obviously had to ALLOW it to happen, (I wouldn't but hey, whats a few measly humans if you're god?) so this is inherently gods fault, for allowing it to happen.
Which brings us to the topic. That is why god sucks. :yes:
So, why is it then you're more than willing to give credit to God for the "good", but not the "bad"?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 30, 2008, 08:29:26 AM
You and Henry are both wrong.
Why is it when someone poses a questions to a Christian (maybe other faiths too, but they're under represented here :smile:) that they can't answer, they consider it bashing. That's aside from missing the originial point of the thread. Or may that's why you're missing it..
At any rate here it is:
So, why is it then you're more than willing to give credit to God for the "good", but not the "bad"?
Do you REALLY want an answer?..... :confused:
Because, I'm sure it won't mean diddly squat to the fans of this thread... :no:
I'll patronize you and give you MY answer.... ;)
After the fall of man in the garden of eden....Sin ruled/ruels the earth....evil does and will take place.........Satan's job is to distract man and keep them from focusing on God.........i.e Job, was a good example from the Bible............Satan told God, that Job is only faithful becasue he was blessed....he was the richest man in all the land....he had everything going for him......Satan told God, that if bad things was to happen to job, that he would NOT be nearly as faithfu.....God allowed satan to do what he wanted to job, except kill him............not sure if you ever read it, but, BAD things happened to Job......Job stayed faithful........he always praised him during the good times.............and when the bad times hit........and they were bad..........he STILL praised God............
for me, it is very easy to praise God when good things happen............not so easy when bad things happen.........but it is during those bad times.....THAT is when I need God the most.......He, manages to allow me to have faith and hope, and gets me through those bad times........I find the more I try to praise Him during those times....the easier it is to get throught them....
God NEVER, EVER, anyplace in the Bible, promised us good times.........sin, rules this earth......we ALL make our choices.........it is up to us to choose God to help us through those times or reject Him....God did tell us to Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on our own understandings. In all our ways acknowledge Him...and He will make our paths straight.......
Yes, some very bad things happen to very good people...and it would have been very possible for God to simply NOT allow it to happen........but, it is His rules...and He tells us not to lean on our own understanding, but to trust in Him......He sets the rules, not man...He created EVERYTHING.....to THOSE of us, who has made the decision to TRUST in Him..........are able to find some comfort and peace during bad times........I struggle sometimes, but, when I put my focus on God....I find that I somehow, manage to muster through those bad times....and it is during those BAD times, it seems most people turn to God.....even those who are not sure if He exists or not...........
the bible also tells me, that .....God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.....
Those are promises from God..........and this is my answer...........Now, watch the bashing.... :yes: Sandy, I hope you read this, and took time to read it....you asked me and I gave you an answer.........I have be referred to as a moron and an idiot on this thread.....questions have been posed to me and I HAVE answered them and the folks on here claim it's not the answer they wanted or it does not make sense and then they "BASH" for a lack of a better word.......
to add insult to injury....Jesus is called Gezbuss or whatever........my religion is mocked and made fun of..........and, the bottom line is.....I don't have to come here and read it.......but, I do........i still don't have to like it.....but, that's the way it is ....everywhere anymore....
at any rate, that's my answer and I'm pleased with it.... :yes:
and one last thing....God does NOT suck... :no: ;) :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 12:34:52 PM
Why don't liberals bitch about the people out there who HAVE NO business having kids.........the one's that don't have a job...the ones that did not graduate high school....
The ones who lose their homes to foreclosure?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2008, 01:11:39 PM
the bottom line is...................it seems to me that there is some mercy upon the poor, single mother, who screws several partners and has several kids...........but, a married couple, who are Christians, decides to have a large family.....home-school them, raise them in a loving enviorment, clothes them, and teaches them to be responsible human-beings....are being trashed as scum, because they are over-populating the earth.....and not adopting other peoples kids.....
The reality is that most of the people like this who have litters of children can't afford to do so and do depend on public assistance to house, feed and clothe them.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2008, 09:44:01 AM
...my religion is mocked and made fun of...
So is mine (http://www.venganza.org/) but his noodly goodness is far too busy with important matters to be offended by it.
I read it Henry (thank you) and I'm still left w/questions.
Why would God allow the Devil to mess w/a someone so devoted? What did that prove exactly and to whom?
If God is stronger than Satan then he/she has nothing to prove. If God is secure that he/she is the supreme being then certainly he/she didn't need anything proved to him/herself. Besides, didn't he/she already know the outcome?
I don't understand the purpose of the "test" and the only person that suffered was the faithful devotee.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 30, 2008, 10:17:59 AM
I read it Henry (thank you) and I'm still left w/questions.
Why would God allow the Devil to mess w/a someone so devoted? What did that prove exactly and to whom?
If God is stronger than Satan then he/she has nothing to prove. If God is secure that he/she is the supreme being then certainly he/she didn't need anything proved to him/herself. Besides, didn't he/she already know the outcome?
I don't understand the purpose of the "test" and the only person that suffered was the faithful devotee.
I know that my answer is only going to be replied as a 'cop' out..but, God tells us NOT to lean on our own understandings....but to TRUST in Him....
I think, people WANT answers to everything...it is our nature...........but, God has his reasos..........
I know for me, there are times I tell my kids to do something and they ask...WHY?...and sometimes, they don't need to know anything more, than just because I told you so.......they simply don't need to know EVERYTHING, rather just trust me and do it.....
maybe that is the logic I use, .... and I know, it does not settle well for those who don't believe...but, that is where the faith comes in for me...
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2008, 10:02:05 AM
The reality is that most of the people like this who have litters of children can't afford to do so and do depend on public assistance to house, feed and clothe them.
then that is wrong then....imo
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2008, 09:48:43 AM
The ones who lose their homes to foreclosure?
real classy...
Just a couple of notes:
- The church where the shooting was going on was a Univeralist church, which from my understanding, is a social club and not a religious institution, at all. Point is: people kill others for their own reasons all the time and no god, devil, demon, or angel had anything to do with it. The ignorance of religion is usually just a symptom of the problem, but far too often, it is the cause, but again, not by the hand of some invisible, imaginary creature.
- One can't be a racist (proper spelling) against a religion. One can be a snob about ignorant people, including most religious types, but having a strong opinion about ignorant religious people doesn't make one a racist. And, if one is a bigot about a religion (say, christianity), by definition; if you know the subject and understand it, your opposition to it doesn't make you a bigot. Bigotry, by definition, is an uninformed opinion or hatred based in ignorance (the very problem with MOST religions).
- People are naturally curious and ask probing questions for which religions can't cope with. So, the ultimate cop out for MOST religions is to discourage such questioning by saying; "god has his reasons", "it's god's will", "we aren't supposed to know everything", etc. Again, statements that are only based in absolute ignorance. Anyone that claims the bible has a 100% reliability rating, without caveatting the mindless killing, rape and pillage, sexual misconduct, etc, as disgusting, is absolutely ignorant about the writings in the book; also, the very problem with MOST religions and especially the modern result of the bible, christianity).
:wink:
GOD I LOVE
christians CAN KISS MY BLACK ASS! >:(
Quote from: incognito on July 30, 2008, 08:51:17 PM
:wink:
GOD I LOVE
christians CAN KISS MY BLACK ASS! >:(
:biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2008, 10:59:27 AM
real classy...
Hey, you were the one who took it upon himself to decide who could and couldn't have kids. I'm just sayin'...
Quote from: incognito on July 30, 2008, 08:51:17 PM
:wink:
GOD I LOVE
christians CAN KISS MY BLACK ASS! >:(
Quit holding back; tell us how you really feel. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2008, 12:58:09 PM
Hey, you were the one who took it upon himself to decide who could and couldn't have kids. I'm just sayin'...
whatever.... :rolleyes:
if you read everything....I'm the one who IS NOT saying that.........I said who cares how many kids a family has....as long as THEY are taking care of them....and NOT sticking their hands out for charity....other's on here was saying they thought the family having 18 kids was irresponsible....
OH! HENRY (no pun intended):
don't know if you are aware of my personal ideology on earthly religions;
i have no problem with CHRISTIANS= FOLLOWERS OF THE WAYS AND WORDS OF CHRIST!
I DETEST christians= the believers in the words as taught by man!
i have no problem with MUSLIMS= FOLLOWERS OF THE WORD OF ALLAH AS GIVEN TO MOHAMMAD
i detest muslims= followers of the word as taught by man :wink: 8)
Quote from: incognito on July 31, 2008, 08:27:52 PM
OH! HENRY (no pun intended):
don't know if you are aware of my personal ideology on earthly religions;
i have no problem with CHRISTIANS= FOLLOWERS OF THE WAYS AND WORDS OF CHRIST!
I DETEST christians= the believers in the words as taught by man!
i have no problem with MUSLIMS= FOLLOWERS OF THE WORD OF ALLAH AS GIVEN TO MOHAMMAD
i detest muslims= followers of the word as taught by man :wink: 8)
sounds reasonable.... :yes:
Seems to me, the couple just like sex, a lot, and have found a divine justification for the "parting of the legs" on a routine basis. They are obviously retarded with no "human" reasoning left in their heads (or just lost the ability to think on all the energy of being so irresponsible). So, you can "praise god all day long", but they are just a puppy mill spitting out an obviously large group of future robots.
Like the catholic justification for large families (pope says we can't use birth control), the term "the wrong folks are having the most kids" certainly seems apropos.
Quote from: dan foster on July 31, 2008, 10:30:49 PM
They are obviously retarded with no "human" reasoning left in their heads
Quote from: dan foster on July 31, 2008, 10:30:49 PM
Seems to me, the couple just like sex, a lot, and have found a divine justification for the "parting of the legs" on a routine basis.
Which leads to one of the three classifications of orgasms, the religious, where the woman is screaming, "oh god, oh god!"
The second is the maternal orgasm where the woman is screaming, "oh baby, oh baby."
The third, of course, is the fake orgasm in which the woman is screaming, "oh Henry, oh Henry."
:biggrin:
Quote from: dan foster on July 31, 2008, 10:30:49 PM
...the term "the wrong folks are having the most kids" certainly seems apropos.
The fittest and most resourceful have fewer kids while the least fit and least resourceful have more. Aren't we a clever species; we've outsmarted evolution!
Quote from: Exterminator on August 01, 2008, 12:20:54 PM
Which leads to one of the three classifications of orgasms, the religious, where the woman is screaming, "oh god, oh god!"
The second is the maternal orgasm where the woman is screaming, "oh baby, oh baby."
The third, of course, is the fake orgasm in which the woman is screaming, "oh Henry, oh Henry."
:biggrin:
;D
ha ha wise ass... ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
ha ha wise ass... ;D
You know you're going to use it. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 01, 2008, 12:20:54 PM
Which leads to one of the three classifications of orgasms, the religious, where the woman is screaming, "oh god, oh god!"
The second is the maternal orgasm where the woman is screaming, "oh baby, oh baby."
The third, of course, is the fake orgasm in which the woman is screaming, "oh Henry, oh Henry."
:biggrin:
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 01, 2008, 12:22:25 PM
The fittest and most resourceful have fewer kids while the least fit and least resourceful have more. Aren't we a clever species; we've outsmarted evolution!
Yes, outsmarted in a grand scheme of de-evolution; D-E-V-O.
:mad: I'm perfectly fit, thank you very much. And my 7 kids will tell you the same. :mad:
Are you familiar with the difference between generalities and specifics?
One needs to look no farther than here to see why Gawd sucks. I found this in another venue.
Quote from: Church LadyGeorge Bush and his administration has done more for America in the past 8 years than any other President in history to help bring about the rapture. And for this I want to that him and the Republicans. George Bush was elected because my God needed him as his instrument here on Earth to bring about his second coming. We only have 4 months left in George's administration, I hope to God he can get all of God's work done in this time so the Lord can come back.
:eek:
I just wonder if she was serious or posting in jest.
To think she may have been serious is extremely disturbing.
Quote from: Church LadyYes i'm serious! The republican party is the party of GOD! They know that things have to get to the worst possible point and to let Satan run wild and do as he will with our country. Only in this way can the Lord step in and save us! Our President and his party has done the rightious thing by allowing things to unravel and go to pot! They understand what God wants, unlike the UnGodly Democrats!
:eek:
I'm afraid thats a little far out even for me. :confused:
(http://www.godhatesfags.com/images/1f3.jpg)(http://www.godhatesfags.com/images/ghf.png)
I kinda think it's humorous that she thinks that the Republican party is a party of god. :biggrin:
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on September 26, 2008, 09:14:44 PM
I kinda think it's humorous that she thinks that the Republican party is a party of god. :biggrin:
I think it has to be satire. The only folks who think like that are the folks holding the signs above and they are, without exception, the craziest MF's on the planet (right there with the taliban and suicide bombers). Of course, for the westboro crowd, it all comes from inbreeding and incest to produce the likes of the phelps family.
http://www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/463620938_119440b00c.jpg?v=0)
It looks like it's been a while since anything was posted to this thread. I hope that in the meantime all you God haters have changed your ways and that God has laid his love and compassion on your hearts so that you've stopped this Godlessness.
Seriously doubtful.
I believe.
I truly believe.
That I am.....
That I am................................GAWDLESS!
Does God really have a favorite country, people, religion, military force? Does God really take sides in a conflict, "God's on our side". Does God really have a favorite college, football, baseball, basketball, team or racing team? Does God really give a rats rear-end about any of that crap?
The answer is NO! He/she cares nothing about any of that stuff and a cornucopia of a lot of the other crapola humankind has crammed down our throats for centuries now. It's all made up including that fictional book they call the "Bible"; written, edited, and assembled by humankind for the singular purpose of controlling the masses, just as it is utilized to this very day.
God is that which humankind falls back upon when what it doesn't understand, like, want, or desire befalls it. It is the "go to" explanation for that which we do not understand, or are too lazy to figure out.
When humanity invokes the name of God, it is a sure sign that someone either doesn't know wtf they are talking about, or is so scared they're probably going to shit diamonds in the coming months.
What does swearing on the bible accomplish? Think God cares whether you swear over that lil piece of fictional story telling or not? Hell no! God knows whether or not you are telling the truth, going to tell the truth, or are going to lie through your pie hole until the cows come home. Swearing on the bible is just another utilization of theatrical influence upon the masses, utilized by the legal system as a means of scaring the hell out of you so you'll tell the truth. Think it means anything to the professional liars? (IE law enforcement or criminal personnel that make a career out of conjuring up testimony about as truthful as that piece of fiction they swear upon on a regular basis). Hell no it doesn't!
God knows that humanity is nothing more than a bunch of lying little weasels, driven by greed and the desire to control the largest number of their own kind as possible. Been that way since we were swinging in the tress, flying through the air, or swimming in the seas. Its in our DNA, but some have evolved to figure out the farce this so called "human God" is, and those are the ones they must recondition or eliminate because they are a threat to the power holders. That's why they created revivals, missions, and the crusades; to force the "heathens" to comply and work to support the power holders.
God sucks because the "God" we have been preconditioned to know and fear is nothing more than a creation of humanity. The fact is, "that" God doesn't exist and never has. It's the proverbial "man behind the curtain" that we made up to scare everyone into making a select few the possessors of the majority of the wealth and power in this world. And it has been working since before they nailed that man on the cross.
Why fuck with something that works? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Doc on October 31, 2008, 05:55:28 PM
It looks like it's been a while since anything was posted to this thread. I hope that in the meantime all you God haters have changed your ways and that God has laid his love and compassion on your hearts so that you've stopped this Godlessness.
Please provide a biblical quote that ensures the god of abraham is of "love and compassion". You see, I don't need an imaginary friend to possess "love and compassion". I am proud that I can come by that completely on my own. What is "godlessness" to me; not living a lie. The gators quarterback can't do a goddamn thing as he attributes "everything" to jesus and he is living a lie. "Everything" I do is of my own accord and I live a life of truth. I think that really makes christians a bunch of liars, really. So, what is "godlessness" to you? Or, are you still just lying to yourself as you were taught?
PH, I think the Bible is the most amazing book EVER written...and I don't think, that man, by himself, was or is capable of compiling a group of over 40 books, written over a 1500 year span, by several different authors, that delivers a constant message of Gods love....the amazing truths that are written in that book...........I really don't think that there a enough intelligent men on this earth who has ever lived that could have designed such a book, that is as powerful as this..........the millions of lives that has been changed and touched by this compellation of words......
I DO think, that man has corrupted it and bastardized many, many of the simple truths that God layed out there for ALL of to know...
I do not think that God is a Jeff Gordon fan or cares who wins the Super Bowl.....I DO believe that God wants to be praised...and wants us to put Him first in our lives.....He has given us a plan, to live eternal with Him...and man, has complicated it severely.....
I agree, that for the most part, man is nothing more than a bunch of lying little weasels, driven by greed.....and God knows that...
I think that fear, is a good thing.....and Love is a better thing....and they are the essence in the Holy Bible...
I personally, find evidence of God's existence overwhelmingly real........and the "man behind the curtain" theory, I think you are giving WAY too much credit to a bunch of lying little weasels to create such a book and "fairy tale"........as many of you put it.
and I am going to go on record of saying that God does NOT suck!..I believe in God's existence as He has eloquently describe in His book...but, I do respect your opinion. :)
why did the messages stop, henry? if god communicated his plans and designs to men for all that time (and even before when he used to talk to some), why did he stop at the writings that are included in "the" bible? and why didn't he provide the same information in a timely fashion to asians, or pacific islanders or native americans?
Quote from: bevis on November 04, 2008, 12:35:20 PM
why did the messages stop, henry? if god communicated his plans and designs to men for all that time (and even before when he used to talk to some), why did he stop at the writings that are included in "the" bible? and why didn't he provide the same information in a timely fashion to asians, or pacific islanders or native americans?
Hell, I don't know! :confused: .... ;) ;D
I believe He DID provide the same information to ALL........................or it is being provided, to the corners of earth...my guess, it is His, timely fashion.....it is HIS plan, not ours....just because we do not conceive His ideas of what He should have done, does not mean it is wrong....
so you clearly understand god's simple plan on the one hand, yet you can't know god's plan because only he knows it on the other hand? ok.
Quote from: bevis on November 04, 2008, 01:41:44 PM
so you clearly understand god's simple plan on the one hand, yet you can't know god's plan because only he knows it on the other hand? ok.
I DO think God's plan (the one that He want's us to know) is simple.....it is MAN who keeps it all dicked up......all I know, is...that God has a plan of salvation for everyone...............at least that is MY belief.
so god has the simple bible plan, which he has so clearly revealed to everyone. but he also has another, SECRET plan, that he is NOT revealing to us? that's worrisome, to say the least. does ANYONE know the secret plan other than god? wouldn't the secret plan have to be different from the revealed plan (it would be stupid to have two different plans that were exactly the same, right?)? and thus wouldn't that make the revealed plan a false, misleading plan? you sound a little heretical there henry, bravo!
Maybe there is a plan for the eternal afterlife that we aren't to know until we get there.
Maybe that's wishful thinking because people are uncomfortable with the thought of "lights out", that's it, it's over, rather than living on in some eternal place - good or bad or indifferent.
Hank: "I DO believe that God wants to be praised...and wants us to put Him first in our lives.....He has given us a plan, to live eternal with Him...and man, has complicated it severely....."
What was the "plan", again? Simple, but we complicated it? Too complicated for us to understand? Which is it?
As that god "wants to be praised"; why? The creator of the universe, the giver of all life, the one with the "all knowing (yet SECRET)" plan needs a hug? Just a little cuddle? What is that? Is it like prayer, this praise? Some sort of special physics that is transported to the "father" and he KNOWS he is being praised and that "recharges his batteries", or what? Do you even have to say how much you praise him in your mind, or out loud, for him to KNOW, or can you just think about it for a millisecond and the job is done?
Okay, guys...It seems like I have been down this road about a zillion times....and, I have NEVER claimed to know ALL the answers about the mysteries of God. I have my very strong AND passionate belief....Dan, I see NO use in exchanging conversation about Christianity, because I can NEVER say ANYTHING that will change your mind, NOR, will anything by you can be said that will influence my thoughts.....you have said about everything that can be said....and it has only confirmed my faith even more....I can say, that I am much stronger now, than I was a couple of years ago....
Too me, my faith in God and Christ, is a very personal and SOLID part of everything I am....
Piya, do you honestly believe, that it is "lights out" when you die? That is it?...this life is just what it is....and BAM.... OVER?
Bevis, I don't think there are words I can say, that will ever change your mind.....and, that is not up to me.....IF I sound a little "heretical" to you....then you are not understanding what my point is...and, I may never have the words to tell you..
I am probably not a good person to argue Bibical issues....I am a novice, at best, on the Bible...It is becoming more and more understandable to me...and I'm finding it is NOT as complicating as I used to think it was.....but, I'm NOT in a position to argue nor do I really have the desire to argue.....I can always share what faith has done for me personaly....but, that is about as far as I am even going to TRY to take this issue from this point on.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on November 05, 2008, 10:00:04 PM
Maybe that's wishful thinking because people are uncomfortable with the thought of "lights out", that's it, it's over, rather than living on in some eternal place - good or bad or indifferent.
There is another possibility. The atoms that make up your body don't die. They eventually become part of something else, possibly part of another living being.
Some even say that at some point in your life, you have breathed in atoms exhaled by Caesar when he spoke his dying words, "Et tu, Brute?"
Just a thought.
That's a cool thought. I like that. :yes:
Kind of like saying, "We return to the Earth from whence we came," eh?
The old "atoms to atoms, dust to dust," except in a bit more musing and poetic form.
Or, as we used to chant in grade school:
The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out --
The worms play pinochle on your snout
It's poetic, too, except it's a bit more crass.
I think that it shows how we are interconnected to everything and everbody.
Quote from: followsthewolf on November 06, 2008, 02:37:14 PM
The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out --
The worms play pinochle on your snout
The eagle picks my eye
The worm he licks my bone
I feel so suicidal
Just like dylan's mr. jones
Within a physical sense I guess I can agree with that; but on a spiritual plane I have to think there is a lot more than what most of us suspect.
Just why is it do you think, that humankind has so fervently followed such an obvious lever created to control it? Namely religion. . . It is because deep down inside our spirits long for what comes after the earthly plane upon which we physically exist. Our spiritual selves suffer from a form of amnesia in that we cannot recall lucidly that from whence our spirits came prior to this physical existence. At least not in the case of the spiritual majority anyway. Some of us can go there too; in fact most of us have that ability but societal pressures have driven us to repress it out of fear of being ostracized by the controlling majority amongst us.
We know it is wonderful, we know it is a very different type of freedom and existence than that which our physical selves can conceive of. And it is our spiritual selves that cry out for something more than what we can experience within the physical world, and it is just that longing that drives us to be prone toward latching onto religion as a form of panacea with which to placate that longing and give it direction.
For centuries the masses have been conditioned increasingly by the onslaught of the human God(s); Buddha, Mohamed, Jesus Christ, Jim Jones, David Koresch. (sic?). Each of these religious figures has, or has had, its following and as humanity increasingly becomes disillusioned with the human Gods it leaves them open for the likes of some of these sects as their spiritual voice cries out for direction and freedom.
I find it quite amusing to observe humanity as it creeps and crawls about, seeking spiritual guidance from some outward source, and failing time and time again. Christianity is one of the more successful of these endeavors in that it has been providing humankind's greediest with a means to control the masses and bend them to their personal will for increasing levels of wealth and power, for centuries now.
Utilizing everything from statements claiming devine guidance toward interpretation of God's word, (according to humankind:written, edited, and assembled by same), to threats of eternal damnation in the fires and brimstone of hell; these men and women lead the masses about the world by the short hairs. And they go without so much as a bleat.
Instead of looking for some kind of deliverance from an external source, humanity would be much better served, and a damned sight more successful, by seeking this spiritual guidance from within; from the spirit that is the eternal portion of your current physical makeup. Listen to yourselves people, and stop listening to the wolves in the shepherds clothing claiming to be your deliverers! They are nothing more than your own doom personified, with no other purpose than to utilize you as a means with which to feed their own greed and further restrict your spiritual freedom via utilization of brow beating and fear mongering, just as they and their kind have done since humankind first became aware.
Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit. Then learn to listen to it. Instead of spending Sundays at, and feeding, humankind's money machine, spend it within your own home, or at a secluded and quiet space where you can truly look within and hear yourself; and see the truth that has been there since the moment when your physical and spiritual selves were united within the context of that first breath.
It is not "God the Creator" that is sucking here, but rather I would submit it is the shortfalls of the "God of Humankind's Creation". And it is sucking because this God is very much like us and "his" words, written by HIS creator, (humankind), even go so far as to tell us that by saying "we" were created in his own image. This human God is a vengeful, bitter, greedy, and self-serving God. Those that know "him" are the Jerry F's, ET AL of the world that know how to utilize this human created tool to amass the personal wealth and power it was created to generate in the first place.
Back in the day, events like the LA Riots were a common thing, and they caused the rulers of humanity to experience the drizzles every time they transpired. They needed a way to control these things, and along came "God" and the "men" that could communicate with him. Some of these guys weren't dummies and they had already gone about teaching themselves about the sun, moon, stars; and a select few eventually learned to predict solar eclipses or other such celestial events.
Some of them had an idea and used these little secrets to demonstrate to the rulers that they indeed had the ear of the creator by making demands and threatening a divine event as a sign that unless they complied an even worse fate would await them. (Solar eclipse).
The rest is history, and if you don't believe it do a little research. While the kings and queens of those days may have been fat and sassy, when the robe wearers showed up they got real contrite until Ol Henry decided to test them. Successfully, among others.
Those robe wearing pigs eventually figured their power was rapidly leaving them and along came the sweet baby Jeebus hanging on the cross story and his followers; and with it an opportunity with which to build an even more and powerful tool with which to wield their power and control the masses; the bible.
Now, while I may have my timeline a little askew in the above I believe you get the gist of what I am saying here. God sucks because that "God" isn't the creator, it is the human God of human creation, and as such flawed.
Do I believe in a creator, higher being, or whatever terminology you'd like to use for it? Yes I do. But, not the one the world has created and uses to instill fear, forced compliance, and to amass personal wealth and power with. No friggin way! That God sucks! :yes:
Thank you, PH!
In a way (far more crudely than you just outlined it) I think I am trying to say something similar.
Jack London wrote a book called "Before Adam" in which he detailed flashbacks to a time when he was "another being" what ever that was.
And Carl Jung hypothesized a sort of "racial memory" in which our very atoms have memories. I believe he called it the collective unconscious.
If we, as you say, "Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit." maybe we can get in touch with that collective unconscious.
Quote from: Bo D on November 06, 2008, 04:53:37 PM
Thank you, PH!
In a way (far more crudely than you just outlined it) I think I am trying to say something similar.
Jack London wrote a book called "Before Adam" in which he detailed flashbacks to a time when he was "another being" what ever that was.
And Carl Jung hypothesized a sort of "racial memory" in which our very atoms have memories. I believe he called it the collective unconscious.
If we, as you say, "Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit." maybe we can get in touch with that collective unconscious.
. . . and only therein will we find ourselves, our truths, and our creator! :yes: :smile:
Quote from: Bo D on November 06, 2008, 04:53:37 PM
. . .
Jack London wrote a book called "Before Adam" in which he detailed flashbacks to a time when he was "another being" what ever that was.
And Carl Jung hypothesized a sort of "racial memory" in which our very atoms have memories. I believe he called it the collective unconscious.
. . .
Thank you Bo! I'll read up on the two things you've mentioned. It's going to be a long winter and adding these two things to my list of winter reading will bring some flavor to the season for me. :smile:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 06, 2008, 05:06:46 PM
Thank you Bo! I'll read up on the two things you've mentioned. It's going to be a long winter and adding these two things to my list of winter reading will bring some flavor to the season for me. :smile:
I hope I didn't misrepresent them. It's been more than 35 years since I read them. But as you can probably tell, they made an quite an impression on me.
Bump for mcgonser.
And after the almost 2 years that this thread has been going, I still think God sucks. :yes: ;D
I can't believe some of us have been hanging out around her for so long.
Well, I don't think God sucks. I believe in him, his son and his word., Amen
Quote from: Locutus on April 01, 2009, 06:58:43 PM
And after the almost 2 years that this thread has been going, I still think God sucks. :yes: ;D
I can't believe some of us have been hanging out around her for so long.
It is obvious to many that the "god" of the bible really does suck (although imaginary). So, how is it that people can be led to believe, or still believe after the age of 12?
I have come to understand how it is humans are predisposed to believe (genetically), but I still can't quite get my hand on how they can be convinced to not "give it up". After all, they have to not want to believe to break the mind fuck (yep, this is still unmoderated) that IS religion. An addict won't quit until they WANT to quit. Same with a believer. So, I guess through lack of education, lack of intellectual curiosity, or just out of plain laziness (it is easier to believe than to not believe), they plod happily along in their delusion. So, yeah, god sucks, but like a beaten puppy, the easily amused just keep going back for more. Maybe there is something of a victim complex at work, or as one of the genetic code's masters (Jared Diamond) put it; people are still trying to please their father (a heavenly one will do the trick)?
NOTE: Stewart Guthrie is the other genetic code master with his explanation in Faces in the Clouds. Diamond wrote The Third Chimpanzee.
Quote from: dan foster on April 01, 2009, 09:51:31 PM
It is obvious to many that the "god" of the bible really does suck (although imaginary). So, how is it that people can be led to believe, or still believe after the age of 12?
Indeed! And how can they be so protective of their own fairy tale, while being so dismissive of the fairy tales of others.
Quote from: dan foster on April 01, 2009, 09:51:31 PM
I have come to understand how it is humans are predisposed to believe (genetically), but I still can't quite get my hand on how they can be convinced to not "give it up". After all, they have to not want to believe to break the mind fuck (yep, this is still unmoderated) that IS religion. An addict won't quit until they WANT to quit. Same with a believer. So, I guess through lack of education, lack of intellectual curiosity, or just out of plain laziness (it is easier to believe than to not believe), they plod happily along in their delusion. So, yeah, god sucks, but like a beaten puppy, the easily amused just keep going back for more. Maybe there is something of a victim complex at work, or as one of the genetic code's masters (Jared Diamond) put it; people are still trying to please their father (a heavenly one will do the trick)?
NOTE: Stewart Guthrie is the other genetic code master with his explanation in Faces in the Clouds. Diamond wrote The Third Chimpanzee.
Perhaps this explains it. From the dictionary:
de·lu·sion (dĭ-lōō'zhən) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. The act or process of deluding.
2. The state of being deluded.
3. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
4. Psychiatry
A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.
I think that fits quite nicely and is very apropos.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/smiley_faces.jpg)
GOD Loves you!
In answer to that, I think the line from Dan's signature says it best:
"Eternal damnation and punishment awaits those who question God's unconditional love." -Bill Hicks
:wink:
Quote from: Locutus on April 02, 2009, 02:11:34 PM
In answer to that, I think the line from Dan's signature says it best:
"Eternal damnation and punishment awaits those who question God's unconditional love." -Bill Hicks
:wink:
the words unconditional love are not used in Scripture in either the Old or New Testaments.. :no:..the Bible is quite clear..it IS a
conditional love...based upon
His terms... :yes: ;)
John 8:31-32 (NIV) ...Jesus said, "
If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
He loves the unlovable and gives His glory to them. God's love is completely undeserved. God's love is unfailing for those in whom He delights....For God so loved the world He gave His one and only Son.... :preach:
Jesus said in Luke 13:3 "...
If you do not repent,
then you will all perish..."
definitely a CONDITIONAL love.......Hicks got it ALL wrong.. ;)
sorry, got a little carried away there.... :-[ :razz:
What if I tell you the following:
- There is a jolly old man on the north pole who is plump and wears a red suit.
- This man has a cadre of elves who toil all year long making presents for children.
- On Christmas, he jumps in a sleigh propelled by eight reindeer.
- Over the course of one night, he circumnavigates the globe and delivers presents to all the children, landing his sleigh on the roof, and sliding his plump arse, sack and all, down the chimney.
- When he's done, he returns to the North Pole to start working on next years presents.
I'm an adult and what if I told my friends that I believe this story to be true with all my heart? Furthermore, I try and convince you that I'm right, and attempt to change your mind as to your beliefs and make you believe the story. What would you think of me? You would say that I was off my rocker and rightfully so.
Furthermore, you may try and convince me that I'm wrong by citing certain evidence.
- Reindeer are make believe you tell me.
- "How does he get into the houses without a chimney?", you ask.
- What if there's a fire in the fireplace? Wouldn't he catch on fire?
- How does he know whether or not the children have been bad or good?
- How is he fast enough to visit all the children in the world on one night?
I have one simple answer to all your questions. That is, you just have to believe and have faith. I wonder why you don't believe my story and you wonder how I can possibly be delusional (see above definition) in the face of the logical questions you just asked.
Yet you don't hold your religious beliefs under the same light of scrutiny that you do the story of Santa Claus. Why?
Because it is true that there is a God. Not true that there is a Santa Claus even though it is a nice story. Seems to me that people believe what they want to anyway. I haven't tried to tell yoou what to think, just what I believe. Why is that such a problem for you? Me thinks maybe you do protest too much. JMO
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 04:12:26 PM
Because it is true that there is a God. Not true that there is a Santa Claus even though it is a nice story. Seems to me that people believe what they want to anyway. I haven't tried to tell yoou what to think, just what I believe. Why is that such a problem for you? Me thinks maybe you do protest too much. JMO
It's not a problem for me. The problem is that you, and countless others like you, can't seem to discern the difference between the delusion of your big man in the sky and the delusion of Santa Claus. Your god and Jeebus story don't stand up to the light of scrutiny any more than ole' Santa does. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on April 02, 2009, 03:58:03 PM
Yet you don't hold your religious beliefs under the same light of scrutiny that you do the story of Santa Claus. Why?
I do not have a personal relationship with Santa Clause...I DO have with God....I have SEEN what God can do for humans...I have seen miraculous things done, on behalf of God....at least what I believe to be God....I can NEVER prove to you likewise, so I am not going down that path....
There have been MILLIONS, besides me to have encountered...Gods presence...The Bible, I BELIEVE, is not a fluke....It is TOO perfect with it's continuity and it's prophecies...
There is nothing I can say to change your mind Locutus....and I won't try. I only wish that you could have experience God's Love....and His intervention....
my point IS, with Hicks's statement was..........Who SAID that God's love is unconditional...
Let me ask you this....what IS unconditional Love?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 02, 2009, 04:24:03 PM
Let me ask you this....what IS unconditional Love?
It's what my dogs give me.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 02, 2009, 04:42:30 PM
aren't dogs great... :yes:
:yes: :yes: :yes:
I love my dog!!!! :smitten:
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 02, 2009, 04:24:03 PM
I do not have a personal relationship with Santa Clause...I DO have with God....I have SEEN what God can do for humans...I have seen miraculous things done, on behalf of God....at least what I believe to be God....I can NEVER prove to you likewise, so I am not going down that path....
There have been MILLIONS, besides me to have encountered...Gods presence...The Bible, I BELIEVE, is not a fluke....It is TOO perfect with it's continuity and it's prophecies...
There is nothing I can say to change your mind Locutus....and I won't try. I only wish that you could have experience God's Love....and His intervention....
my point IS, with Hicks's statement was..........Who SAID that God's love is unconditional...
Let me ask you this....what IS unconditional Love?
un⋅con⋅di⋅tion⋅al [uhn-kuhn-dish-uh-nl] Show IPA
–adjective
1. not limited by conditions; absolute: an unconditional promise.
love [luhv] Show IPA noun, verb, loved, lov⋅ing.
–noun
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
I've seen arguments along these lines made other places and I wish I could find them because I'm sure I'm not doing them justice from memory. :mad:
But I'll try my best to remember, and I'll throw in a bit of my own along the way, so let's take this a step further.
Suppose this is the story:
- One night, while sitting in my room, a blinding light appears.
- Coming forth from the light is an angel who tells me an incredible story.
- He tells me that there are golden plates buried on a hill in New York.
- The angel takes me there, and allows me to bring the plates home.
- The angel translates the contents of the plates for me which are written into a book.
- The angel disappears back from whence he came, taking the plates with him.
- The translation in my book tells the story of Jewish people who lived in the United States some 2,000 years ago.
- Jesus went an ministered to these people.
Now despite the fact that there's a book that makes that EXACT claim, Christians everywhere toss it out as the hogwash that it is. They would ask some of the same questions that they ask in the Santa Claus example above.
- Where are the historical records of such a civilization?
- Where are the artifacts from the period?
- What did these people do?
- According to my book, they had large cities. What happened to them? Where's the evidence?
I tell you that the evidence is all there, we just haven't found it yet. You continue to ask me logical questions, but I have an answer to all of them. It wouldn't take you long to come to the conclusion again that I'm off my rocker.
Christians obviously discount this story, however there are millions of Mormons who believe with all their hearts that the story is true despite the fact that there isn't one shred of evidence to support it. Why? Because they're delusional.
Why do Christians not hold their own religion to the same scrutiny with which they hold the Book of Mormon?
Quote from: Locutus on April 02, 2009, 04:19:15 PM
It's not a problem for me. The problem is that you, and countless others like you, can't seem to discern the difference between the delusion of your big man in the sky and the delusion of Santa Claus. Your god and Jeebus story don't stand up to the light of scrutiny any more than ole' Santa does. :wink:
Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to. There really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory. My main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong???? Why worry if I am delusional? Its no skin off your back. Leave me in peace and I will leave you in peace. God loves you and me!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 06:10:02 PM
Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to.
But that doesn't make it any more true than the other two stories. I can make that same claim about Santa and the Mormon's story. Those other stories have also stood up for numerous years and will continue to do so.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 06:10:02 PM
There really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory.
But why not? There isn't one shred more evidence that your story is right than there is that Santa Claus exists or that the claims made in the Book of Mormon are correct. Why does your fairy tale get a pass while you so quickly dismiss the fairy tales of others?
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 06:10:02 PM
My main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong???? Why worry if I am delusional? Its no skin off your back. Leave me in peace and I will leave you in peace. God loves you and me!
I'm not picking I fight with you at all. I'm trying to make a cogent argument based on facts, evidence, and logic. There isn't one shred of evidence supporting your fairy tale, but there's quite a bit of science upon which I base my beliefs. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on April 02, 2009, 06:37:29 PM
I'm not picking I fight with you at all. I'm trying to make a cogent argument based on facts, evidence, and logic. There isn't one shred of evidence supporting your fairy tale, but there's quite a bit of science upon which I base my beliefs. :wink:
Ah!!!theres the rub, there comes a time when you have to let the heart in and accept things thru pure faith of belief.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are you saved thru faith, not of yourselves in case any man should boast. It is a gift from God
Ah! But if you let the heart in, close your mind, and just believe by faith, ole' Santa will slide his merry arse down your chimney next Christmas. :wink:
It is a combination of the mind and the heart silly,
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 09:08:34 PM
It is a combination of the mind and the heart silly,
Ok. Let your heart fool your mind into believing something it shouldn't and ole' Santa will still slide his merry arse down your chimney next Christmas. :wink:
But I digress. What about the Mormon example? Why is your tale to be believed any more than theirs is?
I can't comment on the Morman belief/ don't know enough about it.
But you commented on Santa Claus, didn't you? I laid out the basic tenants of the Book of Mormon previously. You have no comment on that?
I sense a lot of fear and anger in you Mr. Borg.....The Dark Side consumes you.
Then simply state your case and present your evidence that your "sense" is correct. I'm all ears.
I would also be interested in hearing your thoughts as to the ongoing conversation regarding Santa, Mormons, and Christians insofar as facts, evidence, and logic are concerned.
That was more of a wise ass comment than anything else but.....
In my experience.....my fears usually materialize themselves to the outside world as anger. I will be afraid that I am getting screwed, that I am missing out on something, that I am not going to get what I want, that I am not getting what I deserve, that people don't like me, that I am somehow inferior, that somebody else is getting what should be mine, etc, etc.....I will get a resentment towards that person, place, or thing and I will act out, usually in anger.....Criticizing or doing anything I can to tear it down just to make me feel like I am right and it is wrong. Self-centered, self-seeking, ego-maniac, with low self-esteem.....and it all can generally be boiled down to a fear of something. That is just how I am wired. It is a constant struggle...(you could say I am now attacking you...hahaha).
I do not consider myself a religious person. I have my own faith in God as I understand him. I practice the 'christian' model because it suits me and I believe it is the right way to live our lives. I believe that practicing the Goldern Rule, doing service for others, and just simply trying to be a nice person is a good way to live life. The vast majority of the people I come across in the christian church share those same beliefs so we have something in common, a fellowship....we become friends and people we can share our lives with. I see nothing but good that can come from this.
I can't comment on other 'religions' because I have never been overly exposed to them, I have never studied them, nor do I have any interest to. There are many stories that I believe to be ludicrous, but if someone has faith and belief in them that is their business. I like to think of the many different belief systems (religions) are like the spokes of a wheel....they all lead to the core where there is 'good'.
I am a trekkie but I don't believe that eons ago our great-great-great-great......ancestors were single celled organisms swimming around in a pool of primordial ooze. There was some divine intervention somewhere along the way.
What's wrong with Santa anyway.....he's not hurting anybody.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
That was more of a wise ass comment than anything else but.....
That's what I thought. Just checkin' though. ;D
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
In my experience.....my fears usually materialize themselves to the outside world as anger. I will be afraid that I am getting screwed, that I am missing out on something, that I am not going to get what I want, that I am not getting what I deserve, that people don't like me, that I am somehow inferior, that somebody else is getting what should be mine, etc, etc.....I will get a resentment towards that person, place, or thing and I will act out, usually in anger.....Criticizing or doing anything I can to tear it down just to make me feel like I am right and it is wrong. Self-centered, self-seeking, ego-maniac, with low self-esteem.....and it all can generally be boiled down to a fear of something. That is just how I am wired. It is a constant struggle...(you could say I am now attacking you...hahaha).
No worries. I didn't view that as an attack at all. I just found the "anger" retort interesting. It seems that those of the Christian persuasion who post on these forums often use the adjective angry when replying to atheists. That mean ole' atheist person doesn't believe in god so he must be angry about something, or there must be something wrong with him. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
I do not consider myself a religious person. I have my own faith in God as I understand him. I practice the 'christian' model because it suits me and I believe it is the right way to live our lives. I believe that practicing the Goldern Rule, doing service for others, and just simply trying to be a nice person is a good way to live life. The vast majority of the people I come across in the christian church share those same beliefs so we have something in common, a fellowship....we become friends and people we can share our lives with. I see nothing but good that can come from this.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the golden rule and you won't find any disagreement here. My position is that the golden rule does not need any religion as a premise. Morality and the common good don't need religion to be their precursors. Never have, and never will.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
I can't comment on other 'religions' because I have never been overly exposed to them, I have never studied them, nor do I have any interest to. There are many stories that I believe to be ludicrous, but if someone has faith and belief in them that is their business. I like to think of the many different belief systems (religions) are like the spokes of a wheel....they all lead to the core where there is 'good'.
No problem here either, but my question is to those who tout their religion hither and yon on the Internet, but who have
never taken the time to even study other religions let alone delve into the background and history of their own. That's the problem. There have been people on this very thread who have said that their belief in god and Jeebus is different than a belief in Santa Claus, yet not a shred of evidence exists to prove either. Ergo, there is no difference.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
I am a trekkie but I don't believe that eons ago our great-great-great-great......ancestors were single celled organisms swimming around in a pool of primordial ooze. There was some divine intervention somewhere along the way.
Welcome to the Zone fellow trekkie. :biggrin: There is a difference in you and me my friend. I don't believe in anything absolutely unless it can be absolutely proven. :wink:
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
What's wrong with Santa anyway.....he's not hurting anybody.
Not at the surface, but why do parents feel the need to lie to their children? Why would a parent expect their older children, or tweens, or teenagers, to believe them when the parents introduced the charade of Santa into their belief system as a toddler?
Let's take it another step further. I posit that many devout Christians are devout only because that's the ONLY thing they were exposed to as children. That's their comfort (and fear) zone and they can't find it in themselves to question something that's been ingrained in their psyche for as long as they can remember.
Santa in and of himself can't do much harm, but society propagating obvious lies to future generations, even if they are as innocuous as Santa and the church seem to be, can only continue to post problems for future generations. :yes:
tell me..who ever said that God's love is unconditional?
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 02, 2009, 11:10:32 PM
In my experience.....my fears usually materialize themselves to the outside world as anger. I will be afraid that I am getting screwed, that I am missing out on something, that I am not going to get what I want, that I am not getting what I deserve, that people don't like me, that I am somehow inferior, that somebody else is getting what should be mine, etc, etc.....I will get a resentment towards that person, place, or thing and I will act out, usually in anger.....Criticizing or doing anything I can to tear it down just to make me feel like I am right and it is wrong. Self-centered, self-seeking, ego-maniac, with low self-esteem.....and it all can generally be boiled down to a fear of something. That is just how I am wired. It is a constant struggle...(you could say I am now attacking you...hahaha).
All religion is entirely fear based. People are afraid of the probability that when they die, life simply ends and so they make up all of this ridiculousness to convince themselves that there's something else waiting. How much do you remember about when you're asleep? Remove dreams and that's what you have to look forward to in the 'hereafter'...nothing...no god, no heaven or hell; it just stops.
As far as christianity being a good way to live your life, that is certainly true but it doesn't require religion, only common sense. I'm certain that my dogs have no concept of geebuz but they don't go around biting each other simply because it isn't that much fun and it hurts...same as us humans. A church also isn't a requirement in building a social network unless you are so inept at meeting people that you feel compelled to pay to do so.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 06:10:02 PM
Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to.
The bible can't even maintain consistency within itself. That millions of people are gullible enough to believe it doesn't make it true. A lot of you still maintain that Bush was a good president despite his record of abject failure.
QuoteThere really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory.
I'll bet Santa is mentioned in more books than god or Jesus; is that the litmus test of credulity?
QuoteMy main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong????
Absolutely. Could it be possible that you are?
I am not allowed to access this page. WTF NOT?
What are you talking about? :confused:
:confused:
for the record.... ;).......i personally do NOT think God sucks.... :no:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 03, 2009, 04:27:56 PM
for the record.... ;).......i personally do NOT think God sucks.... :no:
Especially since there isn't one.
It is written; he that does not exist, cannot therefor sucketh.
Quote from: dan foster on April 03, 2009, 04:42:43 PM
It is written; he that does not exist, cannot therefor sucketh.
From which scripture is that oh deacon dan? :biggrin:
Well, whomever runs this web site, has decided that this atheist can't post on this fucking thread!
Quote from: dan foster on April 03, 2009, 04:42:43 PM
Especially since there isn't one.
It is written; he that does not exist, cannot therefor sucketh.
Quote from: dan foster on April 03, 2009, 04:42:43 PM
Especially since there isn't one.
It is written; he that does not exist, cannot therefor sucketh.
but let it be said, Dan, my brother....I STILL love ya!.........because one of these days, you going to see the light .... AGAIN... ;) :)
Quote from: xman on April 03, 2009, 05:01:52 PM
Well, whomever runs this web site, has decided that this atheist can't post on this fucking thread!
But you're posting on it. :confused:
Quote from: Locutus on April 03, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
But you're posting on it. :confused:
that's what I was thinking.. :confused:
Me too.
Quote from: xman on April 03, 2009, 05:01:52 PM
Well, whomever runs this web site, has decided that this atheist can't post on this fucking thread!
What is, can be...
So what do you cats believe in anyway.....could you prove it also please?
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 03, 2009, 06:31:16 PM
So what do you cats believe in anyway.....could you prove it also please?
Science, all that IS proven, anyway, and some of what hasn't been proven, yet.
There isn't a single religious tenet that can be proven, scientifically, so why would you ask for proof of nothing; there are no ghosts, super human zombies, gods, devils, demons, angels (we can talk more about those, if you want), alien visitations, alien abductions, alien saucers, flying horses, magical beings of any kind...
prove that there aren't.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 03, 2009, 06:31:16 PM
So what do you cats believe in anyway.....could you prove it also please?
I'm a proud member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. :yes:
Just ask Kim. :biggrin:
http://www.comcast.net/data/fan/html/popup.html?v=1081735653&pl=1081624663.xml&plc=1081624663&launchpoint=Cover&cid=fancover&attr=default_headline&config=/config/common/fan/default.xml
Damn it...so much for freaking aliens....crap. Resistance is futile!
one does not have to prove what has not occurred, idiiot.
I see double standards are in effect here.
Quote from: dan foster on April 03, 2009, 11:46:41 PM
I don't have to.
Yer soundin' a little bit childish there Dan..... :rolleyes:
Quote from: xman on April 04, 2009, 02:06:12 AM
one does not have to prove what has not occurred, idiiot.
Reading this thread as an agnostic not sure which way to turn I'm wondering why, if their side has to prove these things have occurred, atheists feel they don't have to prove that it hasn't occurred. Not trying to be argumentative just curious.
This reply is also directed at Dan.
Quote from: me on April 04, 2009, 10:11:48 AM
Reading this thread as an agnostic not sure which way to turn I'm wondering why, if their side has to prove these things have occurred, atheists feel they don't have to prove that it hasn't occurred. Not trying to be argumentative just curious.
This reply is also directed at Dan.
I will say it again, I don't have to prove anything. I haven't made any outrageous claims. I have claimed that things that don't exist, in fact, don't exist. I don't have to prove they don't exist.
Now, for those who think the list to be real, you will have to prove it. I can no more prove that ghosts don't exist than you can prove they do. AND, I can no more prove god doesn't exist than you can prove "he" does. I don't have to prove he doesn't; its obvious to those who accept scientific standards for proof, or at least believe in physics to explain the world around us.
When you can explain a physics for invisible beings that can "change your life" or even hear your prayers (you will have to explain the physics of prayer transmission and reception, as well), then maybe you will have a leg to stand on. If you CAN prove anything from the earlier list as fact, then there is a $1M prize waiting for you from the Amazing Randi. Until then, don't ask me to prove something you already know isn't true, if you were being true to yourself, as described from the quote below.
"Outrageous claims require outrageous evidence. Mundane claims require only mundane evidence. If someone tells me that the Sun will appear to rise from the East in the morning, I am inclined to accept that possibility as all of recorded history provides evidence that it does in fact appear to rise from the East.
So where's the proof?
Why do True Believers most often fail to provide evidence for or even specifics about their claims? Why is it we all get to hear endlessly about claims of the paranormal and yet no scientific evidence or research supporting their claims is ever offered for proof?
Why are there millions of dollars available from educational organizations to any self-professed "psychic" who can demonstrate their abilities in front of magicians, conjurers, and scientists? James Randi's foundation has well over one million dollars alone for anyone to take... and yet no one wants it for some mysterious reason.
Why do believers in deities feel the need to lie about even the most simplest of mundane things when they're so easily caught and the truth so easily exposed for all to see? They know evolution is a directly observed phenomena; they know that there are many examples of speciation having taken place within the lifetimes of humans; they know that the fossil record is further evidence -- and yet they cast-side all reason to pretend otherwise.
It's because True Believers don't care about the truth. They know that they're full of what-else so they won't take tests, won't accept challenges, won't provide testable, verifiable, falsifiable specifics; won't do anything which will nudge them from that comfortable self-imposed ignorance. And they get angry and resentful when someone forces them to try to defend their already-lost position.
Where's the proof? There is none: And True Believers know it. "
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/proof.htm (http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/proof.htm)
So you can't prove it. You just need a little faith. Did you know that the world used to be flat?
I understand what you're saying Dan but the thing that puzzles me is atheists believe in no after life but is it your mind playing tricks on you when a loved one who has crossed over comes to you in a dream to offer a solution or help with something, or sometimes a warning? I have experienced this and I don't mind saying it scared the crap out of me even though it was non threatening in nature it was just too real for my liking. Those are the types of things that kind of cause me to want to believe but don't totally convenience me and yet keep me from being a total atheist.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 04, 2009, 11:31:18 AM
So you can't prove it. You just need a little faith. Did you know that the world used to be flat?
According to the bible, the world is flat. Do you think the world is flat because the bible says it? Why do you say "used to be"? Why isn't it still flat?
Quote from: dan foster on April 04, 2009, 03:43:13 PM
According to the bible, the world is flat. Do you think the world is flat because the bible says it? Why do you say "used to be"? Why isn't it still flat?
I actually got into a disagreement with someone in another venue as to whether the authors of the bible believed the earth was flat. Unless I'm unaware, I don't think it specifically states anywhere in the bible that the earth is flat. However, when reading the creation account in Genesis, I think it's clear by the term "heavens and earth" that they believed the earth was flat. Earth was everything down here, and the heavens were everything out there.
That being said however, there are some verses in the bible that clearly indicate that the authors held to a flat earth view.
Hard to find "four corners" or an "end" on a ball.
Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth
Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
If one looks to the ends and can see the whole of heaven, then there isn't anything in the way like; the curvature of the earth. It must be flat. Still is, I guess. Oops. I think we have pretty much proven that one wrong, but I bet there ARE still those who would take the "word" of god over their own eyes watching a ship go over the edge, I mean horizon :biggrin:
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 03, 2009, 08:43:23 PM
prove that there aren't.
It is impossible to prove a negative.
Check it out.
Quote from: dan foster on April 04, 2009, 04:03:49 PM
I think we have pretty much proven that one wrong, but I bet there ARE still those who would take the "word" of god over their own eyes watching a ship go over the edge, I mean horizon :biggrin:
:biggrin: :biggrin:
Here is another one:
"
take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)"
"The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and
it was visible to the end of the whole earth. (Daniel 4:10-11)"
Seems pretty clear to me that they thought that the earth was flat. :yes:
Ah, you forget, All Things Are Possible With God. ;D
Quote from: mcgonser on April 04, 2009, 08:57:55 PM
Ah, you forget, All Things Are Possible With God. ;D
Yes, only limited by YOUR imagination.
Faith = Belief in possibilities.
My mistake, I was not trying to reference the bible....can't say as I've ever read it all the way through.
Believing the world was round rather than flat was a leap of faith...at that time.
Just because something is not proven with "scienctific fact" does not mean it is not true or does not exist.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/3483x9x.jpg)
God sucks! :yes:
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/ththumper-bible.jpg)
God Is Love!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 05, 2009, 09:42:57 AM
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/ththumper-bible.jpg)
God Is Love!
And if you forget that, "he" will kill you:
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Petty jealousy and coerced adoration "is Love"?
Oh you silly silly man. ;D
(http://www.accesswave.ca/~thomson/god_sucks.jpg)
:devil29: :devil1:
:wings: :wings: :wings: God Loves You!
So you do believe.....you just don't like him.
(http://www.theunemployables.net/images/god_sucks_shirt.jpg)
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 05, 2009, 05:11:05 PM
So you do believe.....you just don't like him.
No, I don't believe. If you read the thread from the beginning, you'll see the point being made.
Quote from: xman on April 03, 2009, 05:01:52 PM
Well, whomever runs this web site, has decided that this atheist can't post on this fucking thread!
Before you get your panties in a bunch...
You get that message when you click of a poster's name indicating you aren't allowed to view his/her profile. It has nothing to do with your ability to post on this thread as is evidenced by your having done so.
Quote from: DannyBoy on April 04, 2009, 10:40:03 PM
Faith = Belief in possibilities.
Really? So religious faith implies only that one believes in the possibility of a god; not that there is one?
Good try Ex, but no cigar LOL
That is exactly what he said: "Faith = Belief in possibilities."
I also found it interesting that he admits what I suspect is true of most who profess to follow the bible, that he hadn't ever read it all the way through.
Eh, exactly how many times have you read the Bible thru Ex; just curious since you claim, and I do mean claim, to know sooooooooo much about the bible, every believer, every church and God. Come on admit it. You have been a busy, busy ?????????? to have acquired all this knowledge.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 03:16:13 PM
Eh, exactly how many times have you read the Bible thru Ex; just curious since you claim, and I do mean claim, to know sooooooooo much about the bible, every believer, every church and God. Come on admit it. You have been a busy, busy ?????????? to have acquired all this knowledge.
Just once and it was the Dewey Rheims version. You?
King James Version
Scofield-my favorite for bible study because of the references.
New American Version
I use Naves Topical Bible for reference and others too.
Each time I read the bible I use a different version. The Scofield is still my favorite:
I have been reading thru the bible, now on my fourth time for over 30 years.
I've actually read the KJV cover to cover.
Most people who come to the conclusions that Ex, Dan, and I have come to, do so by not only researching the bible itself, but also the history of Christianity, including outside influences of other belief systems on the formation of the religion. The whole thing is a logical dead end except for those who are so blind that they won't see.
Quote from: Locutus on April 06, 2009, 04:45:07 PM
I've actually read the KJV cover to cover.
Most people who come to the conclusions that Ex, Dan, and I have come to, do so by not only researching the bible itself, but also the history of Christianity, including outside influences of other belief systems on the formation of the religion. The whole thing is a logical dead end except for those who are so blind that they won't see.
I WAS once blind, but now I see... ;) ;D :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 06, 2009, 04:47:39 PM
I WAS once blind, but now I see... ;) ;D :razz:
That's questionable. :wink: :razz: ;D
Let me get this straight. You don't get your info from Gods word but from what other people are telling you he said. Why not read his total word and figure it out for yourself. God said it, I believe it, Amen. But at least I have spent years studying, reading and praying over his word. Do the work yourself and see what you learn.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Let me get this straight. You don't get your info from Gods word but from what other people are telling you he said. Why not read his total word and figure it out for yourself. God said it, I believe it, Amen. But at least I have spent years studying, reading and praying over his word. Do the work yourself and see what you learn.
Quote from: Locutus on April 06, 2009, 04:45:07 PM
I've actually read the KJV cover to cover.
Most people who come to the conclusions that Ex, Dan, and I have come to, do so by not only researching the bible itself, but also the history of Christianity, including outside influences of other belief systems on the formation of the religion. The whole thing is a logical dead end except for those who are so blind that they won't see.
Been there and done that. :wink:
BTW, perhaps the problem is that you've spent years with your nose stuck in "the book" and haven't spent enough time reading books about "the book" and about the period in general. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on April 06, 2009, 05:44:56 PM
BTW, perhaps the problem is that you've spent years with your nose stuck in "the book" and haven't spent enough time reading books about "the book" and about the period in general. :yes:
Well you got that one wrong too. I don't expect too much from your group except jumping to the wrong conclusion. JMO
Perhaps you missed the word
perhaps at the beginning of my remarks. :wink:
Well let's just look at the totality of your posts on this thread shall we? Anyway, just for review, here are your posts thus far on this thread:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 01, 2009, 08:58:53 PM
Well, I don't think God sucks. I believe in him, his son and his word., Amen
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 02:04:58 PM
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/smiley_faces.jpg)
GOD Loves you!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 04:12:26 PM
Because it is true that there is a God. Not true that there is a Santa Claus even though it is a nice story. Seems to me that people believe what they want to anyway. I haven't tried to tell yoou what to think, just what I believe. Why is that such a problem for you? Me thinks maybe you do protest too much. JMO
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 06:10:02 PM
Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to. There really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory. My main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong???? Why worry if I am delusional? Its no skin off your back. Leave me in peace and I will leave you in peace. God loves you and me!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 07:14:34 PM
Ah!!!theres the rub, there comes a time when you have to let the heart in and accept things thru pure faith of belief.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are you saved thru faith, not of yourselves in case any man should boast. It is a gift from God
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 09:08:34 PM
It is a combination of the mind and the heart silly,
Quote from: mcgonser on April 02, 2009, 10:07:46 PM
I can't comment on the Morman belief/ don't know enough about it.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 04, 2009, 08:57:55 PM
Ah, you forget, All Things Are Possible With God. ;D
Quote from: mcgonser on April 05, 2009, 09:42:57 AM
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/ththumper-bible.jpg)
God Is Love!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 05, 2009, 11:24:21 AM
Oh you silly silly man. ;D
Quote from: mcgonser on April 05, 2009, 04:36:53 PM
:wings: :wings: :wings: God Loves You!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 12:45:20 PM
Good try Ex, but no cigar LOL
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 03:16:13 PM
Eh, exactly how many times have you read the Bible thru Ex; just curious since you claim, and I do mean claim, to know sooooooooo much about the bible, every believer, every church and God. Come on admit it. You have been a busy, busy ?????????? to have acquired all this knowledge.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 04:20:27 PM
King James Version
Scofield-my favorite for bible study because of the references.
New American Version
I use Naves Topical Bible for reference and others too.
Each time I read the bible I use a different version. The Scofield is still my favorite:
I have been reading thru the bible, now on my fourth time for over 30 years.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Let me get this straight. You don't get your info from Gods word but from what other people are telling you he said. Why not read his total word and figure it out for yourself. God said it, I believe it, Amen. But at least I have spent years studying, reading and praying over his word. Do the work yourself and see what you learn.
Now given all of the above, which appears to be nothing more than cheerleading for god, there is absolutely no critical evidence offered up to support the inference of this claim here:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 09:41:46 PM
Well you got that one wrong too. I don't expect too much from your group except jumping to the wrong conclusion. JMO
The inference being that you've read other books about "the book", or about your religion (and I'm not talking about books supporting your belief system), or about the origins of christianity at all. If you had, you would most likely come to the same conclusion that many of us have. The whole thing is a logical dead end.
Did you even know that ole' Jeebus doesn't have the market cornered on "Passion" related stories? There were plenty of predecessors which the new testament authors were well aware of that could have influenced the authors of the new testament. But you're studious and all, so I bet you already knew that. :wink:
Locutus, you and I go ways back now, so I will ask you....what is your authority for truth?....Science?...Simply because science cannot prove the existence of God?...it seems to me, that you have taken great "pride" in that, and feel the need to tell EVERYONE who does NOT agree with YOUR, opinion, THEY ARE WRONG, they are being illogical?....they are wasting their time on a 'dead end'?...and, not so much you personally, but there are others on here, ( I won't mention names), LOVE to chastise those who believe.....
I can say that I have read the Bible through and through...and am only NOW beginning to grasp the message that it has....the many 'truths', the philosophical values, the RICH history, the fullfilled prophecies, the vast knowledge that is has to offer....It has become MY opinion, that it takes MORE than simply ... buzzing..through the many books and chapters...
I can go as far to say that I agree with your disdain for religion itself....I personally think religion is getting into the way of ALL of us humans, to finding and accepting the truth, that GOD wants us to find.
I'm not here to argue, because THAT is not going to win...anything...and I'm not out to 'prove' anything, but rather to support MY personal belief, and to encourage those others on here NOT to be discouraged in their desire to accept Christ.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 08:39:59 AM
Locutus, you and I go ways back now, so I will ask you....what is your authority for truth?....Science?...Simply because science cannot prove the existence of God?...
I have purposely steered clear of this type of discussion lately. More and more it seems like people are just spittin' into the wind. Nothing I write is going to change anybody's mind and nobody's going to change mine.
But to claim that science is anti-God just rankles me.
Science can't prove there is a god. Science can't prove there is no god.
I still trying to sort all this out but I believe that science and God can co-exist quite nicely, thank you.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 04:20:27 PM
King James Version
Scofield-my favorite for bible study because of the references.
New American Version
I use Naves Topical Bible for reference and others too.
Each time I read the bible I use a different version. The Scofield is still my favorite:
I have been reading thru the bible, now on my fourth time for over 30 years.
Yeah, I believe that as much as I believe your story about being a retired educated professional (which you've pretty much disproven). I'm betting you've never read a book in your life. :rolleyes:
Thou shalt not lie.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 06, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Let me get this straight. You don't get your info from Gods word but from what other people are telling you he said. Why not read his total word and figure it out for yourself. God said it, I believe it, Amen. But at least I have spent years studying, reading and praying over his word. Do the work yourself and see what you learn.
If you study the how the bible was compiled and how which books were chosen to be included and which would be excluded, you can come to no other logical conclusion other than it is impossible that it is "God's word". Why would an omnipotent god need men to relay his message anyway; why not just tell it himself? He could do that, you know; he's God and what not. I'll tell you why...he can't because he doesn't exist. The idea that such a powerful being requires "faith" in his existence rather than simply presenting himself is preposterous.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 09:01:23 AM
Yeah, I believe that as much as I believe your story about being a retired educated professional (which you've pretty much disproven). I'm betting you've never read a book in your life. :rolleyes:
Thou shalt not lie.
See, there you go again calling me a liar when you know not what you say(as usual) I don't care if you believe me or not, that is your problem.
Was just answering a question you asked hoping for a change you would realize your folley. No one on here believes that you know all or see all either. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm What does that make you???????
Quote from: mcgonser on April 07, 2009, 09:39:39 AM
See, there you go again calling me a liar when you know not what you say(as usual) I don't care if you believe me or not, that is your problem.
Was just answering a question you asked hoping for a change you would realize your folley. No one on here believes that you know all or see all either. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm What does that make you???????
If you were educated, you would know the diffference between 'seen' and 'saw' and you might even know how to spell 'folly'. You claim that you simply don't care enough to take the time but it wouldn't take any time for an educated person; it would be natural. You also claim to have been a professional yet somehow, by your own admission, were also able to watch Oprah every day since the show started. I don't personally know any professionals that are at home when Oprah is on. Sorry but I'm someone who calls them as I see them and I do not believe that you are honest. For someone who calims such faith in religion, you aren't very good at honoring one of its most basic tenets. Hopefully, your geebuz will forgive you.
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For Exterminator: Bugman, Roach Coach, Fly Boy Etc
Quote from: Bo D on April 07, 2009, 08:58:50 AM
I have purposely steered clear of this type of discussion lately. More and more it seems like people are just spittin' into the wind. Nothing I write is going to change anybody's mind and nobody's going to change mine.
But to claim that science is anti-God just rankles me.
Science can't prove there is a god. Science can't prove there is no god.
I still trying to sort all this out but I believe that science and God can co-exist quite nicely, thank you.
Bo, I do not disagree with you...I believe that science and God actually DO co-exist...I beleive that everything that God created does have a scientifice explanation....maybe not one that all scientist have been able to prove at this time...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 10:13:16 AM
Bo, I do not disagree with you...I believe that science and God actually DO co-exist...I beleive that everything that God created does have a scientifice explanation....maybe not one that all scientist have been able to prove at this time...
Sorry, Henry! I should have been more careful in my post. It was NOT aimed at you in particular. Just a general comment.
Thanks Bo, I knew you was being general, but I wanted to clarify my thoughts along with your comment...
an example of science AND the Bible is:
God gave information on many facts, of science. Vitamin K is necessary to prevent bleeding. . Vitamin K is produced in the gut but infants under eight days old cannot produce Vitamin K as the stomach hasn't become fully functional until eight days so His instructions were to circumcise at eight days of age. Merck Pharm Company discovered vitamin K, trade name Mephyton, and now infants are given Mephyton inj so they now can be circumcised at birth for convenience and the Old Law on circumcision was replaced by the New Testament so the eight day wait is no longer required.
So if you were to learn that babies don't have enough of their own vitamin K until they're several months old and the reason they're given it at birth is to prevent Haemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn (HDN), would you admit that your 'eight days' analogy is not true?
What is hemolytic disease of the newborn (HDN)?
Hemolytic Disease of the Newborn is also called erythroblastosis fetalis. This condition occurs when there is an incompatibility between the blood types of the mother and baby.
"hemolytic" means breaking down of red blood cells
"erythroblastosis" refers to making of immature red blood cells
"fetalis" refers to fetus
What causes hemolytic disease of the newborn (HDN)?
HDN most frequently occurs when an Rh negative mother has a baby with an Rh positive father. When the baby's Rh factor is positive, like the father's, problems can develop if the baby's red blood cells cross to the Rh negative mother. This usually happens at delivery when the placenta detaches. However, it may also happen anytime blood cells of the two circulations mix, such as during a miscarriage or abortion, with a fall, or during an invasive prenatal testing procedure (i.e., an amniocentesis or chorionic villus sampling).
The mother's immune system sees the baby's Rh positive red blood cells as "foreign." Just as when bacteria invade the body, the immune system responds by developing antibodies to fight and destroy these foreign cells. The mother's immune system then keeps the antibodies in case the foreign cells appear again, even in a future pregnancy. The mother is now "Rh sensitized."
Although it is not as common, a similar problem of incompatibility may happen between the blood types (A, B, O, AB) of the mother and baby in the following situations:
See Ex: There you go again twisting and spinning the facts. This is not a disease for all babies, only those listed above. All babies born do not usually have enough Vitamin K until 8 DAYS old. That is a fact.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 11:42:03 AM
So if you were to learn that babies don't have enough of their own vitamin K until they're several months old and the reason they're given it at birth is to prevent Haemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn (HDN), would you admit that your 'eight days' analogy is not true?
I think it was and is true, for the average baby.........there can and will always be exception to the rules....because we live in a sin filled world.....and the eight day analogy is VERY true.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 07, 2009, 11:49:45 AM
See Ex: There you go again twisting and spinning the facts. This is not a disease for all babies, only those listed above. All babies born do not usually have enough Vitamin K until 8 DAYS old. That is a fact.
God you're freakin' clueless... :rolleyes:
From http://www.hon.ch/Dossier/MotherChild/child_nutrition/vitaminK.html :
Vitamin K is produced by the body, and helps the blood to clot. Thus, it is essential to prevent serious bleeding. Vitamin K prevents a now rare, but often fatal, bleeding disorder called Haemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn (HDN). HDN can cause bleeding into the brain, which may result in brain damage. HDN can be early (0-24 hours), classic (2-5 days) or late (1-12weeks).
Babies don't have enough of their own vitamin K until they're a few months old. Babies do not get enough of the vitamin from their mothers during pregnancy and don't get much from breast milk either and thus need extra vitamin K until they build up their own supplies. Now, do you see eight days in there anywhere or does it specifically say a few months? You people are so desperate to validate your fairy tale that you'll grasp at any straw.
Vitamin K Injection in Newborns and Carcinogenicity
Newborn babies are also particularly at risk for vitamin K deficiency as the blood clotting factors of babies are roughly 30 to 60 percent that of adult values due to the reduced synthesis of precursor proteins and the sterility of their guts. Premature babies are at an even higher risk of this deficiency. Human milk contains between 1 and 4 micrograms/litre of vitamin K1, while formula derived milk can contain up to 100 micrograms/litre in supplemented formulas. Vitamin K2 concentrations in human milk appear to be much lower than those of vitamin K1. It is estimated that there is a 0.25 to 1.7 percent occurrence of vitamin K deficiency bleeding (VKDB) in the first week of the infant's life with a prevalence of 2-10 cases per 100,000 births [35]. As a result, in the Committee on Nutrition of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommended that 0.5 to 1.0 mg Vitamin K1 be administered to all newborns shortly after birth [36]. Controversy arose in the early 1990's regarding this practice when two studies were shown suggesting a relationship between parenteral administration of vitamin K and childhood cancer (14). However poor methods and small sample sizes led to the discredit of these studies and a review of the evidence published in 2000 by Ross and Davies found no link between the two [37].
Quoted from Wikipedia
i'm done
Quote from: mcgonser on April 07, 2009, 11:56:46 AM
Quoted from Wikipedia
Here's an idea that's certainly foreign to you: instead of searching for just those bits of articles that support some eight day nonsense, why don't you look at several articles without any preconceptions and see if most don't agree that the vitamin K deficiency lasts at least several weeks. In fact, everything I am reading indicates that the most likely time for bleeding on the brain to affect a baby is not until the 3 to 7 week period, clearly long after the eight days.
Conversly, you could simply only pay attention to the articles that you think support what it is you're trying to prove and further support the impression that most here are getting from you that you are closed-minded and unwilling to learn.
High-Risk Newborn
Hemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn (Vitamin K Deficiency)
What is hemorrhagic disease of the newborn?
Hemorrhagic disease of the newborn is a bleeding problem that occurs in a newborn during the first few days of life.
What causes hemorrhagic disease of the newborn?
Babies are normally born with low levels of vitamin K, an essential factor in blood clotting. A deficiency in vitamin K is the main cause of hemorrhagic disease of the newborn.
my whole point to this was.....God said in Genesis 17:12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised....and there is a 'scientific' explanation behind those eight days other than..."God said"...which my statement to Bo, where God and science CAN go hand in hand....I find it very interesting...that's it.......ex you just like to argue, even if you gotta stretch like hell for it... :razz:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 07, 2009, 12:09:49 PM
High-Risk Newborn
Hemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn (Vitamin K Deficiency)
What is hemorrhagic disease of the newborn?
Hemorrhagic disease of the newborn is a bleeding problem that occurs in a newborn during the first few days of life.
What causes hemorrhagic disease of the newborn?
Babies are normally born with low levels of vitamin K, an essential factor in blood clotting. A deficiency in vitamin K is the main cause of hemorrhagic disease of the newborn.
Like I said: Conversly, you could simply only pay attention to the articles that you think support what it is you're trying to prove and further support the impression that most here are getting from you that you are closed-minded and unwilling to learn.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 12:29:06 PM
my whole point to this was.....God said in Genesis 17:12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised....and there is a 'scientific' explanation behind those eight days other than..."God said"...which my statement to Bo, where God and science CAN go hand in hand....I find it very interesting...that's it.......ex you just like to argue, even if you gotta stretch like hell for it... :razz:
And all I was pointing out was that your "scietific explanation" doesn't hold water, ergo, is not proof of anything.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 12:34:28 PM
And all I was pointing out was that your "scietific explanation" doesn't hold water, ergo, is not proof of anything.
It holds a great deal of water.......you just don't WANT to see it.
that is my honest take....
Anything to support your fantasy...
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 12:45:33 PM
Anything to support your fantasy...
you are relativism at it's finest... ;) :razz:
You should stick to words you can pronounce. :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 01:01:55 PM
You should stick to words you can pronounce. :razz:
I have been pronouncing 'finest' ever since I was a lad... :confused:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 12:29:06 PM
.....God said in Genesis 17:12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised....
Does that mean those who still possess the "one-eyed
hooded viper" are doomed?
:confused:
Quote from: Bo D on April 07, 2009, 01:28:34 PM
Does that mean those who still possess the "one-eyed hooded viper" are doomed? :confused:
Yes. :biggrin:
Quote from: Bo D on April 07, 2009, 01:28:34 PM
Does that mean those who still possess the "one-eyed hooded viper" are doomed?
:confused:
:rotfl:...well put...fortunately, because of His Son..we don't HAVE to under go this..... :rotfl:...
His son got circumcized so we wouldn't have to?
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 01:50:55 PM
His son got circumcized so we wouldn't have to?
so to speak...
So God intentionally made foreskins just so that he could make us cut them off? WTF?
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
So God intentionally made foreskins just so that he could make us cut them off? WTF?
we needed to begin to know what 'sacrifice' meant....and THAT my brother IS a sacrifice...
It's actually mutilation :smile: I always thought that there is a medical reason which makes this beneficial to the male. Am I wrong and this is actually a just a religious practice?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 02:14:47 PM
we needed to begin to know what 'sacrifice' meant....and THAT my brother IS a sacrifice...
"Prove you love me...cut your dick off!"
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on April 07, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
It's actually mutilation :smile: I always thought that there is a medical reason which makes this beneficial to the male. Am I wrong and this is actually a just a religious practice?
well, there is a price to pay IF you did not do as commanded by the Lord....(honestly, that is just my quick answer...but, it seems like a good one...)
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 02:28:10 PM
"Prove you love me...cut your dick off!"
I think your being a little over dramatic...we are just talking about a little skin....that in the LONG run, turned out to be a pretty good thing...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 02:29:43 PM
I think your being a little over dramatic...we are just talking about a little skin....that in the LONG run, turned out to be a pretty good thing...
Any way you look at it, it's still ridiculous.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 02:40:17 PM
Any way you look at it, it's still ridiculous.
maybe, but it is true...and documented
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 02:28:28 PM
well, there is a price to pay IF you did not do as commanded by the Lord....(honestly, that is just my quick answer...but, it seems like a good one...)
Wait just a cotton pickin' minute! I thought you told me I was OK?
Damn!
:eek:
This is the trailer for a documentary called "The God Who Wasn't There." The first part of the trailer is an example of God's lil' children doin' the best they know how. The second part of the trailer is a sample of the case that's made against Christianity and its myths.
Here's a question for mcgonser and Henry Hawk. Would you entertain watching a documentary like this?
Hell, you two make be too scared to even watch the trailer. :razz:
You know it's documented in another bible, practiced by another faith that women must be circumcised as well. Seems barbaric to us, but according to their bible their one true god demands this and well it's documented and true. How could we mere mortals know which one is correct? It seems with numbers of gods, religious texts (bibles) and religions someone would be more likely to be struck by lightening than to choose the correct one.
Here's a link to the above documentary for those who feel inclined:
http://www.thegodmovie.com/
Heretic! :biggrin:
Quote from: Bo D on April 07, 2009, 03:44:08 PM
Wait just a cotton pickin' minute! I thought you told me I was OK?
Damn!
:eek:
well, not medically.....there COULD be ramifications by NOT doing what God asked...but, I think your safe, on the eternal end of things... :razz:
I think we should all take a break and play a little game. (http://christonthecrapper.com/toys/crucifun/)
Quote from: Locutus on April 07, 2009, 03:46:35 PM
This is the trailer for a documentary called "The God Who Wasn't There." The first part of the trailer is an example of God's lil' children doin' the best they know how. The second part of the trailer is a sample of the case that's made against Christianity and its myths.
Here's a question for mcgonser and Henry Hawk. Would you entertain watching a documentary like this?
Hell, you two make be too scared to even watch the trailer. :razz:
actually that cracks me up.....first of all, they use the wachnut TV evangelists that truly does not represent the average Christian.......let me rephrase, I feel as if I am a representative of most Christians in America, at least the ones I have known....and the cornball, cheesey evangelist that they use are not reflective of what I feel as good representation...my opinion of course..and secondly those cheesy movies of Jesus are not something that I am remotely proud of....
I probably not have any problem watching the flick, those usually encourage me more than they bother me....
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 04:03:29 PM
I think we should all take a break and play a little game. (http://christonthecrapper.com/toys/crucifun/)
naw, although I do have a good sense of humor....I got to draw the line every once in a while...that doesn't feel too ..... cool, with me.
but thanks for your invitation though....
Quote from: Exterminator on April 07, 2009, 04:03:29 PM
I think we should all take a break and play a little game. (http://christonthecrapper.com/toys/crucifun/)
LMAO!! I was looking for that game from the last time you showed it to us, but I couldn't find it. This time, I'm going to bookmark it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 04:10:50 PM
naw, although I do have a good sense of humor....I got to draw the line every once in a while...that doesn't feel too ..... cool, with me.
but thanks for your invitation though....
What's wrong HH? Think he might hit the "smite" button on your arse? :preach: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on April 07, 2009, 05:30:08 PM
LMAO!! I was looking for that game from the last time you showed it to us, but I couldn't find it. This time, I'm going to bookmark it.
It always makes me feel good to win a blonde for geebuz.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 08:39:59 AM
Locutus, you and I go ways back now, so I will ask you....what is your authority for truth?....Science?...Simply because science cannot prove the existence of God?...
Science has never attempted to prove or disprove god; at least no one who is serious about science.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 11:20:30 AM
Thanks Bo, I knew you was being general, but I wanted to clarify my thoughts along with your comment...
an example of science AND the Bible is:
God gave information on many facts, of science. Vitamin K is necessary to prevent bleeding. . Vitamin K is produced in the gut but infants under eight days old cannot produce Vitamin K as the stomach hasn't become fully functional until eight days so His instructions were to circumcise at eight days of age. Merck Pharm Company discovered vitamin K, trade name Mephyton, and now infants are given Mephyton inj so they now can be circumcised at birth for convenience and the Old Law on circumcision was replaced by the New Testament so the eight day wait is no longer required.
Yes, god needs foreskins and other forms of human sacrifice. Does that really make sense to you? Really.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 07, 2009, 02:47:41 PM
maybe, but it is true...and documented
Really? By whom? No pediatrician practicing modern medicine will back your claim. It is pure idiocy and it IS mutilation, for males and females. It is a silly jewish fable and based solely on a religious myth about a covenant with god. Silly, just fucking silly, and nothing more. And, your defense of it, with "but it is true and documented" is exactly the mentality capable of superhuman zombie belief systems. The numbers of people that believe in this silliness are droping and will be relegated to relative obscurity one day; much like those who thought a hair could turn into a worm or that someone could "cast a spell" on you. Absolute silliness. The female mutilation comes from witch doctors in Africa. Man, hank, you are in good company with all your "proof".
This Bible Thumper says: Have a blessed and safe Easter
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/ththumper-bible.jpg)
Quote from: dan foster on April 07, 2009, 08:57:30 PM
Really? By whom? No pediatrician practicing modern medicine will back your claim. It is pure idiocy and it IS mutilation, for males and females. It is a silly jewish fable and based solely on a religious myth about a covenant with god. Silly, just fucking silly, and nothing more. And, your defense of it, with "but it is true and documented" is exactly the mentality capable of superhuman zombie belief systems. The numbers of people that believe in this silliness are droping and will be relegated to relative obscurity one day; much like those who thought a hair could turn into a worm or that someone could "cast a spell" on you. Absolute silliness. The female mutilation comes from witch doctors in Africa. Man, hank, you are in good company with all your "proof".
I really don't know how to take you sometimes.....it IS well proven, that there ARE many benefits to circumcisions, from Hygiene, fewer Urinary tract infections..and I COULD go on if you want......and IT is well documented in the Bible about the 8-day wait, after the birth, which is what I was first talking about anyway.......so, you just KEEP on losing what little respect that I try to find in you...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 08, 2009, 11:33:01 AM
I really don't know how to take you sometimes.....it IS well proven, that there ARE many benefits to circumcisions, from Hygiene, fewer Urinary tract infections..and I COULD go on if you want......and IT is well documented in the Bible about the 8-day wait, after the birth, which is what I was first talking about anyway.......so, you just KEEP on losing what little respect that I try to find in you...
Well, smart ass, where's your data. Mine says:
Seven out of ten pediatricians (70.3%) do not perform circumcisions.
In fact:
Most pediatricians (55.5%) think the medical indications for circumcision are inconclusive; 33.6% say the potential medical benefits outweigh the disadvantages and risks, while 10.9% say the disadvantages and risks outweigh the benefits.
So how is it your 33.6 minority view upholds your contention? AH. I will take the science over your mythological bible reading, any day. Do you just make this shit up as you go along? Oh yeah, you live by made up stuff. How could I have even asked?
American Academy of Pediatrics
Division of Child Health Research
http://www.aap.org/research/periodicsurvey/ps37exs1.htm (http://www.aap.org/research/periodicsurvey/ps37exs1.htm)
Quote from: dan foster on April 08, 2009, 09:30:53 PM
Well, smart ass,
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks DAN!!...you just made my day!! ;D
pissing you off, (I know, it's inmature)....honestly makes my day...what is even better, I simply stated the truth, and that really, really, pisses you off.... ;D...I didn't have to even try...just told it like it is. :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 09, 2009, 08:12:03 AM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks DAN!!...you just made my day!! ;D
pissing you off, (I know, it's inmature)....honestly makes my day...what is even better, I simply stated the truth, and that really, really, pisses you off.... ;D...I didn't have to even try...just told it like it is. :yes:
Good job HH. Dan's so cute when he's pissed off....little veins popping out and all..... :biggrin:
Actually, you only stated your opinion and laughed at Dan when he tried to explain to you what the 'truth' really is.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 09, 2009, 08:21:36 AM
Actually, you only stated your opinion and laughed at Dan when he tried to explain to you what the 'truth' really is.
I only stated in my original post..
Quoteit IS well proven, that there ARE many benefits to circumcisions, from Hygiene, fewer Urinary tract infections
there ARE benefits!!...that is a very true statement...here is MY data (http://pediatrics.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=pediatrics&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicinenet.com%2Fcircumcision_the_medical_pros_and_cons%2Farticle.htm)...and I never had to ONCE call him a 'smart ass'... ;D .... THAT is what made my day.
I really don't care...it's no skin off .. :confused:...well, uh...okay it IS a little....
and ex, dan is constantly doing things, posting pictures...such as Elvis hanging on the cross....to TRY to piss off Christians..........so SCREW him.. :finger2:..he only does it to be disrespectful... I gave up trying to be respectfull to him...he don't deserve it, anymore... :salute: ..
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 09, 2009, 08:37:04 AM
and ex, dan is constantly doing things, posting pictures...such as Elvis hanging on the cross....to TRY to piss off Christians..........so SCREW him.. :finger2:..he only does it to be disrespectful... I gave up trying to be respectfull to him...he don't deserve it, anymore... :salute: ..
Why do you let it get to you, Henry? Aren't you secure enough in your belief just to let it go? What good does it do to get pissed off?
Maybe you should just turn the other cheek. ;)
Quote from: Bo D on April 09, 2009, 09:45:43 AM
Why do you let it get to you, Henry? Aren't you secure enough in your belief just to let it go? What good does it do to get pissed off?
Maybe you should just turn the other cheek. ;)
That is my point Bo...I'm NOT mad at all........I'm actually having fun with this........the guy does thing intentionally to provke...
and If you have noticed.....I HAVE turned the other cheek with Dan about a year ago...I rarely EVER respond to his posts...
and for the record...I am 100% secure with my belief...remember this IS just a forum....sometimes I forget that the MAIN reason I came here, was for fun....and THAT is all I am trying to do.... :) so I don't ALWAY want to turn the other cheek....unless it is getting TOO serious.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 09, 2009, 09:50:26 AM
That is my point Bo...I'm NOT mad at all........I'm actually having fun with this........the guy does thing intentionally to provke...
and If you have noticed.....I HAVE turned the other cheek with Dan about a year ago...I rarely EVER respond to his posts...
and for the record...I am 100% secure with my belief...remember this IS just a forum....sometimes I forget that the MAIN reason I came here, was for fun....and THAT is all I am trying to do.... :) so I don't ALWAY want to turn the other cheek....unless it is getting TOO serious.
I know what you mean about the fun! ;)
Party on, Dude!
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/aJesus-1Easter.jpg)
God sucks because he says:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/33mxyzd.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/xaubfd.jpg)
...and millions of the sheeple believe this garbage. :yes:
:thumbsup:
exept He don't suck...He gave His one and only Son...to die and be resurrected...so that we, who believe, can have eternal life with Him...
I'm so sure, THIS is going go over SO well, with my non-believen buddies... ;D
but, I'm good with it all.... ;)
have a great night my peeps!!
hh out
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/Godsgreatestgifts-1.jpg)
God still loves you!
God sucks because his chillins' say this is a lie:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2a7d4i0.jpg)
Quote from: Locutus on April 09, 2009, 06:04:10 PM
God sucks because his chillins' say this is a lie:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2a7d4i0.jpg)
Could it be possible that this is not true and gods children are correct. On No tell me it isn't so.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 09, 2009, 08:22:19 PM
Could it be possible that this is not true and gods children are correct. On No tell me it isn't so.
Ok, I'll say it. It isn't so and I have the science to back it up. Whenever you have some evidence to offer up to support your position, you know where to find me. :wink:
BTW, if you really believe that man came from a pile of dirt, and you came from a rib, there isn't much I can do for you. :no:
At least you have the answer to the age old question of, "Which came first; the chicken or the egg?" :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 09, 2009, 08:37:04 AM
I only stated in my original post..
there ARE benefits!!...that is a very true statement...here is MY data (http://pediatrics.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=pediatrics&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicinenet.com%2Fcircumcision_the_medical_pros_and_cons%2Farticle.htm)...and I never had to ONCE call him a 'smart ass'... ;D .... THAT is what made my day.
I really don't care...it's no skin off .. :confused:...well, uh...okay it IS a little....
and ex, dan is constantly doing things, posting pictures...such as Elvis hanging on the cross....to TRY to piss off Christians..........so SCREW him.. :finger2:..he only does it to be disrespectful... I gave up trying to be respectfull to him...he don't deserve it, anymore... :salute: ..
As usual, you twist the truth, yet again. You made your "there ARE many benefits" to back up your original claim of scientific support of a biblical myth. So, you can use your misdirection all you want. Doesn't change the truth that there is no scientific support for biblical fantasies.
As to making me mad; how is it you think you made me mad? You ARE a smart ass, and I don't really need to support that claim with any science or mythology.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 09, 2009, 05:10:18 PM
:thumbsup:
exept He don't suck...He gave His one and only Son...to die and be resurrected...so that we, who believe, can have eternal life with Him...
I'm so sure, THIS is going go over SO well, with my non-believen buddies... ;D
but, I'm good with it all.... ;)
have a great night my peeps!!
hh out
Again, I will ask; does that really make sense to you? The creator of the universe needed a human sacrifice (even if it was his son, incarnate) so that you could live forever? He didn't suffer even as much as a John McCain, so the sympathy/guilt thing just doesn't work (based on the 300 or so savior myths running before the jesus one). So, what is it? Is there a metaphysical exchange of blood for sin? The human sacrifice replaced the burnt offering one, and not much more.
So, one more time; does that really make sense to you? Is that the best plan a creator of galaxies and black holes could come up with? If you can answer that, then you will have to explain why he needs you to have eternal life; run errands for him throughout eternity? Good luck.
Dan, I will try and answer your questions: It makes as much sense to me about God, Jesus, his death on the cross and resurrection 3 days later, as it does to you that man evolved from an ape, or that all the thousands of organisms in this world evolved from one cell that climbed out of a sludge pit. So, why is it so important to you that I am wrong and you are right, what does it really matter??? I believe in the Bible, God and his word. You can't change that. Why can't you give me the Freedom to worship as I please, as I give you the right to not worship. It is not us believers that are getting hostile, hateful and trashing on here. It really is your group that is demanding that we say you are right. I will not try to prove that anything is right or wrong on this subject. You either have the faith to believe or you don't. But I will add this, we can't put all of our faith in Scientific facts, they have been proven wrong before. I find it interesting that you want us to Prove there is a God, are there doubts in your mind? I don't need for you to prove to me that there is no God, because that is a lie to me. Lets just agree to disagree on this subject and move on. Peace be with you.
But what about the fact that chimps and humans share 96% of the same DNA? Ole' Jeebus folk say it's all:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/23u92zr.jpg)
Quote from: Locutus on April 09, 2009, 11:36:35 PM
But what about the fact that chimps and humans share 96% of the same DNA? Ole' Jeebus folk say it's all:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/23u92zr.jpg)
Can you prove that??? I don't think so. I like the theory that if man evolved from ape then the ape would of died out of existence thru evolution.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 09, 2009, 11:49:14 PM
Can you prove that??? I don't think so.
But of course I can.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0831_050831_chimp_genes.html
http://www.genome.gov/15515096
But I don't guess the National Institutes of Health matters much to you since it's science and all that. But, if you are indeed studious as you claim, perhaps you'll find that reading interesting. Humans and chimps share about 96% of the same DNA. Maybe you came from the rib of an ape. :razz: :biggrin:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 09, 2009, 11:49:14 PM
I like the theory that is man evolved from ape than the ape would of died out of existence.
I thought you were studious, educated, and all. If you were, you would know that evolution clearly does not state that humans evolved from apes. It merely states that we have a common ancestor with the apes. :wink:
You're really studious?
Quote from: Locutus on April 10, 2009, 12:07:43 AM
I thought you were studious, educated, and all. If you were, you would know that evolution clearly does not state that humans evolved from apes. It merely states that we have a common ancestor with the apes. :wink:
You're really studious?
I'm guessing that's a rhetorical question? :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on April 10, 2009, 12:07:43 AM
Humans and chimps share about 96% of the same DNA.
Just for arguements sake, I did copy and paste this from another article I have read, it goes like this:
Does a high degree of similarity mean that two DNA sequences have the same meaning or function? No, not necessarily. Compare the following sentences:
There are many scientists today who question the evolutionary paradigm and its atheistic philosophical implications.orThere are not many scientists today who question the evolutionary paradigm and its atheistic philosophical implications. These sentences have 97% homology and yet have almost opposite meanings! There is a strong analogy here to the way in which large DNA sequences can be turned on or off by relatively small control sequences.
The DNA similarity data does NOT quite mean what the evolutionary popularizers claim!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 10, 2009, 08:29:31 AM
Just for arguements sake, I did copy and paste this from another article I have read, it goes like this:
Does a high degree of similarity mean that two DNA sequences have the same meaning or function? No, not necessarily. Compare the following sentences:
There are many scientists today who question the evolutionary paradigm and its atheistic philosophical implications.
or
There are not many scientists today who question the evolutionary paradigm and its atheistic philosophical implications.
These sentences have 97% homology and yet have almost opposite meanings! There is a strong analogy here to the way in which large DNA sequences can be turned on or off by relatively small control sequences.
The DNA similarity data does NOT quite mean what the evolutionary popularizers claim!
That is the most ridiculous arguement (sic) you've offered to date.
Quote from: Locutus on April 09, 2009, 06:04:10 PM
God sucks because his chillins' say this is a lie:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2a7d4i0.jpg)
Not
all of us say that, Dude!
;)
Quote from: mcgonser on April 09, 2009, 10:24:32 PM
man evolved from an ape
Scientists have NEVER said any such thing. The only ones who have ever proposed that idea are the under/un-educated idiots who have no understanding of science.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 10, 2009, 09:10:57 AM
That is the most ridiculous arguement (sic) you've offered to date.
I really think there is a good analogy there.......the article goes on to say:
What if human and chimp DNA was even 96% homologous? What would that mean? Would it mean that humans could have 'evolved' from a common ancestor with chimps? Not at all! The amount of information in the 3 billion base pairs in the DNA in every human cell has been estimated to be equivalent to that in 1,000 books of encyclopedia. If humans were 'only' 4% different this still amounts to 120 million base pairs, equivalent to approximately 12 million words, or 40 large books of information. This is surely an impossible barrier for mutations (random changes) to cross...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 10, 2009, 09:24:25 AM
I really think there is a good analogy there.......the article goes on to say:
What if human and chimp DNA was even 96% homologous? What would that mean? Would it mean that humans could have 'evolved' from a common ancestor with chimps? Not at all! The amount of information in the 3 billion base pairs in the DNA in every human cell has been estimated to be equivalent to that in 1,000 books of encyclopedia. If humans were 'only' 4% different this still amounts to 120 million base pairs, equivalent to approximately 12 million words, or 40 large books of information. This is surely an impossible barrier for mutations (random changes) to cross...
I would sure like to see that entire article and the credentials of the person that researched it.
Quote from: Bo D on April 10, 2009, 09:29:53 AM
I would sure like to see that entire article and the credentials of the person that researched it.
Not a problem Bo..Here (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c018.html) ya go.. :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 10, 2009, 09:32:15 AM
Not a problem Bo..Here (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c018.html) ya go.. :)
Christian answers...who saw that coming?
A quote from the article ....
"There has simply been insufficient time for ape-like creatures to turn into humans."
How do you explain the evolution of wolf to chihuahua in, say 20,000 years or so?
Quote from: Bo D on April 10, 2009, 09:56:29 AM
A quote from the article ....
"There has simply been insufficient time for ape-like creatures to turn into humans."
How do you explain the evolution of wolf to chihuahua in, say 20,000 years or so?
That couldn't be possible because according to the bible, the earth is only 6,000 years old. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on April 10, 2009, 10:03:32 AM
That couldn't be possible because according to the bible, the earth is only 6,000 years old. :rolleyes:
I really don't think the Bible says that. It's just an invention by a few idiots which has been repeated by quite a few more.
Quote from: Bo D on April 10, 2009, 10:09:21 AM
I really don't think the Bible says that. It's just an invention by a few idiots which has been repeated by quite a few more.
Are you sure?
The Bible has very clear Genaelogies in Genesis and I Chronicles that give the ages of the descendants of Adam. This allows very precise calculations of the time that lapsed from Adam to Abraham. Historians have also identified not only the time when Abraham lived, but also King David and even Jesus Himself.
The following timeline is centered around three generally accepted dates:
1) The call to rebuild Jerusalem -444 B.C.
2) The birth of Christ -6 B.C.--accurate historical timing has shown us that Jesus' birth came 6 years earlier than it was once thought
3) The death of Herod the Great -4 B.C.
By creating this timeline, we can place the birth of Adam at 4174 B.C. [give or take a year or two!] At this point, for us to show Biblically that the earth itself is approximately 6,177 years old.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 10, 2009, 10:20:24 AM
Are you sure?
The Bible has very clear Genaelogies in Genesis and I Chronicles that give the ages of the descendants of Adam. This allows very precise calculations of the time that lapsed from Adam to Abraham. Historians have also identified not only the time when Abraham lived, but also King David and even Jesus Himself.
The following timeline is centered around three generally accepted dates:
1) The call to rebuild Jerusalem -444 B.C.
2) The birth of Christ -6 B.C.--accurate historical timing has shown us that Jesus' birth came 6 years earlier than it was once thought
3) The death of Herod the Great -4 B.C.
By creating this timeline, we can place the birth of Adam at 4174 B.C. [give or take a year or two!] At this point, for us to show Biblically that the earth itself is approximately 6,177 years old.
LOL!!!! No....I'm not sure about very much. Like everyone else, I am a product of my education.
I went to college at a small, but very highly regarded (academically) Baptist college. My Bible professor stressed that the Old Testament was not to be taken literally. He used to say that it was a collection of simple stories for simple people to try and help them understand a complex idea. His favorite phrase was "You have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk."
I take the book of Genesis with a big dose of salt. I do, however, enjoy the KJV for what it is. A beautifully written work.
I was taught that the old testament was writtten for those times and to give us a complete history of mankind. The new testament was written for gentiles or non-jews, even though jews can convert if they wish. I think of myself as a N.T. christian and am OT historian. We can learn a lot from our history.
That's all very convenient. I just took it a step further and decided that neither the old nor the new testament is relevant.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 10, 2009, 11:46:43 AM
That's all very convenient. I just took it a step further and decided that neither the old nor the new testament is relevant.
And I fully support your right to do so. :biggrin:
But I reserve the right to disagree with certain portions of your statement.
Quote from: Bo D on April 10, 2009, 10:54:39 AM
My Bible professor stressed that the Old Testament was not to be taken literally. He used to say that it was a collection of simple stories for simple people to try and help them understand a complex idea.
...
I take the book of Genesis with a big dose of salt.
Blasphemy!! You'll be a heathen like me if you keep talkin' like that. :razz: :yes: :biggrin:
That's what I like about an independent belief, you can choose to believe however much or little of the various writings and rantings as you feel comfortable with. I feel the way that was posted about previously...golden rule, morals, all that jazz, and I choose to believe in Jesus, and that there is a supreme being I'll call God. But a lot of Christians wouldn't much care for some of the things that I also believe, which contradict a lot of their teachings. Oh well. As long as I'm being good to myself and others, I don't care much of what they think of my belief's.
Bo D posted:
"I take the book of Genesis with a big dose of salt"
So did I.
Trouble is, the dose of salts was so big I had me a big accident -- nearly on myself. :smile: :sm69:
For what it is worth, one of my religion professors said, with some variations, just about the same thing as yours, Bo D.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 10, 2009, 11:46:43 AM
That's all very convenient. I just took it a step further and decided that neither the old nor the new testament is relevant.
And I don't put you or your non beliefs down, do I? I also don't have to prove why I believe why I do, just as you don't have to prove anything either. But, when you put my God and Jesus down I will come to their defense just like I would for any of my family and friends. Can you see that?
God still sucks! :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on April 10, 2009, 09:26:51 PM
God still sucks! :biggrin:
To you maybe, but not to me. God rules
Ole' Gawd doesn't rule squat. :wink:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 09, 2009, 10:24:32 PM
Dan, I will try and answer your questions: It makes as much sense to me about God, Jesus, his death on the cross and resurrection 3 days later, as it does to you that man evolved from an ape, or that all the thousands of organisms in this world evolved from one cell that climbed out of a sludge pit. So, why is it so important to you that I am wrong and you are right, what does it really matter??? I believe in the Bible, God and his word. You can't change that. Why can't you give me the Freedom to worship as I please, as I give you the right to not worship. It is not us believers that are getting hostile, hateful and trashing on here. It really is your group that is demanding that we say you are right. I will not try to prove that anything is right or wrong on this subject. You either have the faith to believe or you don't. But I will add this, we can't put all of our faith in Scientific facts, they have been proven wrong before. I find it interesting that you want us to Prove there is a God, are there doubts in your mind? I don't need for you to prove to me that there is no God, because that is a lie to me. Lets just agree to disagree on this subject and move on. Peace be with you.
First, we didn't descend from apes; that is an anti-evolution lie put out there. True, apes are our cousins, but we didn't evolve from THEM.
Second, no one is taking your right away to worship.
Third, no one is asking you for proof of a god, especially sincc we already know "he" doesn't exist and you can't possibly prove he does.
So, what, again, is your problem? These forums are for debate. Nothing more. So, what are you asking me to do, again? I am not out to change your mind, only challenge your bullshit claims.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 09, 2009, 11:49:14 PM
Can you prove that??? I don't think so. I like the theory that if man evolved from ape then the ape would of died out of existence thru evolution.
It's obvious you simply don't understand the topic, so why try?
Quote from: mcgonser on April 10, 2009, 11:14:45 AM
I was taught that the old testament was writtten for those times and to give us a complete history of mankind. The new testament was written for gentiles or non-jews, even though jews can convert if they wish. I think of myself as a N.T. christian and am OT historian. We can learn a lot from our history.
Yes, killing babies and raping virgin girls is a valuable lesson to learn.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 10, 2009, 05:21:47 PM
And I don't put you or your non beliefs down, do I? I also don't have to prove why I believe why I do, just as you don't have to prove anything either. But, when you put my God and Jesus down I will come to their defense just like I would for any of my family and friends. Can you see that?
It is kind of cute how you defend your imaginary friends.
Dan, you aren't challenging, you are baiting. Admit it. :wink:
Quote from: pariann on April 10, 2009, 10:44:53 PM
Dan, you aren't challenging, you are baiting. Admit it. :wink:
Sorry. You lost me. Baiting? Be glad to "go round" with anything that anyone wants to debate. However, I just saw your wink and guess you are joking, right?
i was joking about the admitting it.
The post directly above mine...that really is baiting. You know he's going to come back and refute your claim of his imaginary friends.
Don't get me wrong....I've said it before, I am a believe too, but I just don't feel the need to 'testify' to people who have their own firm belief, or no belief as the case may be. I do think though that other people go overboard defending their religion, when it's not necessary, unless they are trying to preach to you. I don't like being preached to. Ya know?
Quote from: pariann on April 10, 2009, 11:02:28 PM
i was joking about the admitting it.
The post directly above mine...that really is baiting. You know he's going to come back and refute your claim of his imaginary friends.
Don't get me wrong....I've said it before, I am a believe too, but I just don't feel the need to 'testify' to people who have their own firm belief, or no belief as the case may be. I do think though that other people go overboard defending their religion, when it's not necessary, unless they are trying to preach to you. I don't like being preached to. Ya know?
Those that feel the need to make sure you know their "friend" are especially annoying. I don't begrudge anyone's right to worship as they will (although I resent the tax breaks and land/public use deals that are given to religions all over America; a waste of tax dollars). AND, I will always fight the injection of religion into gov't. However, I will argue against religion at every turn for its basic dishonesty and it's obstruction of real growth among our society.
[quote I will argue against religion at every turn for its basic dishonesty and it's obstruction of real growth among our society.
[/quote]
What do you consider the real growth that religion is obstructing?
Quote from: Anne on April 11, 2009, 11:50:56 AM
[quote I will argue against religion at every turn for its basic dishonesty and it's obstruction of real growth among our society.
What do you consider the real growth that religion is obstructing?
Tolerance, science, education, peace, to name a few. AND, the social waste of money and time (self aggrandizing, masturbatory, cathedrals as shines unto themselves) instead of real, honest efforts at social justice and equality is by far the most egregious of it all.
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_Nobel.html
I beg to differ with you. We have had great scientists, teachers etc who were devout christians. Here is a list of some. I know of no more peaceful religion that believes and lives in peace than the Quakers. I have not given you my come to Jesus speach on here at all. I think you need to get a thicker skin and learn more tolenance of those who don't agree with you view. JMO
I'd wager that those who are "true" scientists are those that don't take the bible literally either. :wink:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 11, 2009, 05:33:24 PM
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_Nobel.html
I beg to differ with you. We have had great scientists, teachers etc who were devout christians. Here is a list of some. I know of no more peaceful religion that believes and lives in peace than the Quakers. I have not given you my come to Jesus speach on here at all. I think you need to get a thicker skin and learn more tolenance of those who don't agree with you view. JMO
I don't care if anyone agrees with me, at all. Not my mission. I don't need the warm fuzzy that I am right and you are wrong. It just is that way. You only belabor my point; how is it seemingly intelligent people (or dumb assess that at least made it through the education system) can believe such nonsense? I consider that question to be a graduate level thesis in psych.
Sorry, I stopped at the first name on your linked list; Einstein. Your insinuation that he was a christian is an absolute lie. Or would you know the difference?
Quote from: dan foster on April 11, 2009, 11:40:25 PM
I don't care if anyone agrees with me, at all. Not my mission. I don't need the warm fuzzy that I am right and you are wrong. It just is that way. You only belabor my point; how is it seemingly intelligent people (or dumb assess that at least made it through the education system) can believe such nonsense? I consider that question to be a graduate level thesis in psych.
Sorry, I stopped at the first name on your linked list; Einstein. Your insinuation that he was a christian is an absolute lie. Or would you know the difference?
Dan, why are so angry all the time?
Quote from: me on April 12, 2009, 12:05:24 AM
Dan, why are so angry all the time?
What, for calling someone on a lie? However, I am not angry, at all. It really is hard to read emotion in these lines, but if that is what you see, not much I can do about it. I guess I would ask; why do you assume I am angry?
Quote from: dan foster on April 11, 2009, 11:40:25 PM
I don't care if anyone agrees with me, at all. Not my mission. I don't need the warm fuzzy that I am right and you are wrong. It just is that way. You only belabor my point; how is it seemingly intelligent people (or dumb assess that at least made it through the education system) can believe such nonsense? I consider that question to be a graduate level thesis in psych.
Sorry, I stopped at the first name on your linked list; Einstein. Your insinuation that he was a christian is an absolute lie. Or would you know the difference?
Oh dan. there you go. The title said these men believed in God. Jews and Christians believe in God. You state that you do not.
Just making a point that God fearing people have made great accomplishments in Science and other intelligent fields. Don't stop at the first one on the list, read on it is very interesting.
Quote from: dan foster on April 12, 2009, 12:23:28 AM
What, for calling someone on a lie? However, I am not angry, at all. It really is hard to read emotion in these lines, but if that is what you see, not much I can do about it. I guess I would ask; why do you assume I am angry?
The way you phrase things I guess.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 12, 2009, 12:46:17 AM
Oh dan. there you go. The title said these men believed in God. Jews and Christians believe in God. You state that you do not.
Just making a point that God fearing people have made great accomplishments in Science and other intelligent fields. Don't stop at the first one on the list, read on it is very interesting.
OK, Einstein didn't even believe in YOUR god, and he certainly wasn't a christian. So, your insinuation, even if it is about a god vice christian, is still a lie. Why would you perpetuate a lie?
Quote from: mcgonser on April 12, 2009, 12:46:17 AM
Oh dan. there you go. The title said these men believed in God. Jews and Christians believe in God. You state that you do not.
Just making a point that God fearing people have made great accomplishments in Science and other intelligent fields. Don't stop at the first one on the list, read on it is very interesting.
No point in challenging anyone else on your list. I don't care how many great discoveries can be attributed to "people of faith". Like I said, that one still puzzles me. Can you explain how people that seem intelligent can still believe ridiculous stuff? Of course you can't. You are in the middle of the same delusion they had (if any of them were truly "of faith"). You do realize there are a great number of folks who just go through the motions without knowing a single thing about which they believe. They do it in name, only. So, kind of hard to actually give a list of those who truly believe as; if they do truly believe, they aren't being hones with themselves, by definition. Or, they really don't believe, but can't be honest about it with anyone else. Thus, the dishonesty, of it all. Sorry, that doesn't leave you much room to "win" the argument and the reason NONE of the "if you just knew him like I do" works on me, and probably a few others on this post. "Reality Bites", but I will take the truth any day over that of self delusion and outright lies.
What makes you seem angry is that you call everyone names that do not agree with you, or maybe it just makes you seem arrogant. You paint all religion with a brush of intolerence, aggression, and against education, I think you would be surprised at how much good organized religions accomplish.
Quote from: Anne on April 12, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
What makes you seem angry is that you call everyone names that do not agree with you...
I'm new, and maybe I'm missing some subtle insult, but I can't find a post where Dan Foster called anyone here a name.
I don't think he's overtly tried to insult anyone. What I think we're seeing here is an all too common reaction from believers when they find they can't logically back up their beliefs. That being, they take it as a personal affront, and become miffed, rather than taking a deep look at exactly what it is that they believe, and examining it under the full hammer of logic.
BTW, welcome to the Zone LOsborne.
Quote from: Locutus on April 12, 2009, 04:34:20 PM
I don't think he's overtly tried to insult anyone. What I think we're seeing here is an all too common reaction from believers when they find they can't logically back up their beliefs. That being, they take it as a personal affront, and become miffed, rather than taking a deep look at exactly what it is that they believe, and examining it under the full hammer of logic.
Let me see if I have this right. All us "christians" have done is defend our beliefs. The other side say we are ignorant, misinformed, and taking the wrong path. hmmmmmmmm. Yet you can't prove your beliefs that there is no God or he sucks. You make the accusations but have no actual proof. When we post info on our side you put it and us down for thinking such a thing. As to calling names, when someone calls you ignorant, misinformed, wrong for believing(stupid) etc, they are calling you names. I just can't help but wonder why the so called non believers are so adamant about there being no God and won't even consider the other side, yet they take it upon themselves to say the the believers are guilty of this. They have no idea and are definitely misinformed themselves. It is the height of arrogance to assume you know what others are thinking or doing about their lives. But I do consider the source. I myself personally have spent over 30 years examining my beliefs. How long have you studied to be an atheist??? JMO
Quote from: dan foster on April 12, 2009, 01:23:17 PM
OK, Einstein didn't even believe in YOUR god, and he certainly wasn't a christian. So, your insinuation, even if it is about a god vice christian, is still a lie. Why would you perpetuate a lie?
You are the one perpetuating a lie Dan. Jews and Christians do believe in the same God. Of course you can't know this since you don't worship God. So why are you trying to tell those who do believe in God how or why they do. Who is ignorant now of their subject??????????????
Quote from: mcgonser on April 12, 2009, 05:36:21 PM
As to calling names, when someone calls you ignorant, misinformed, wrong for believing(stupid) etc, they are calling you names.
I don't see where he called you ignorant, misinformed, wrong for believing (stupid) either. In fact, all the emotional responses seem to be in answer to DF's posts. Hmmmm.....
Thank you for the welcome, Locutus. But it's only fair to tell you, I don't think resistance is necessarily futile.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 12, 2009, 05:46:12 PM
You are the one perpetuating a lie Dan. Jews and Christians do believe in the same God. Of course you can't know this since you don't worship God. So why are you trying to tell those who do believe in God how or why they do. Who is ignorant now of their subject??????????????
Funny, I know it all too well; jews, christians and muslims all worship the god of abraham. Now, Einstein wasn't jewish or christian, AND didn't believe in the god of abraham. So, now where do you stand with the lie? I haven't said a single thing that isn't true, yet you insist on painting Einstein, now, as a worshiping jew; another lie. He was an atheist and nothing more. I don't know why you stay on the Einstein track. Even if he was a falling down holy roller, what would that prove? If everyone of the so called "greats" in your list was a practicing christian zealot, I still don't understand how that would prove anything, let alone be the "data" you think supports "your side".
Quote from: Anne on April 12, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
What makes you seem angry is that you call everyone names that do not agree with you, or maybe it just makes you seem arrogant. You paint all religion with a brush of intolerence, aggression, and against education, I think you would be surprised at how much good organized religions accomplish.
I only call it the way I see it; misinformed, ignorance, or outright liars. Please tell me where I misused a single one of these terms. Although, I may have mixed them up a bit; mcnoser may not know he was perpetuating a lie about Einstein. Therefore, the term ignorance would apply.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 12, 2009, 05:46:12 PM
You are the one perpetuating a lie Dan. Jews and Christians do believe in the same God. Of course you can't know this since you don't worship God. So why are you trying to tell those who do believe in God how or why they do. Who is ignorant now of their subject??????????????
This one is worth going over, again; You say I am perpetuating a lie, but you were the one doing that. You say I "can't know" since I don't worship, but I know more about the subject than you do. I don't know where I tried to tell those who do believe why they do; I am trying to sort that out and I do have a fair amount of data to work from now, like humans being predisposed to belief from authors like Guthrie and Diamond. And, finally, your ignorance of Einstein is what I called you on, or do you know you are lying, on purpose? What lie am I perpetuating again? Please try to explain that.
Quote from: LOsborne on April 12, 2009, 04:23:23 PM
I'm new, and maybe I'm missing some subtle insult, but I can't find a post where Dan Foster called anyone here a name.
I have to admit, I think I can be insulting without trying. Or, sometimes I do try. However, as Locutus put it, most of the time, it is just having a firm basis in non-belief that irks 'em. I add my welcome to the forums to Locutus'. And, to that, I welcome any and all debate. If I am wrong, I will admit it, but I am very rarely drawn to anger, as some have suggested. It IS hard to read tone in text, but if I am mad, there will be no doubt ;>)
Hello dan foster !
I'd like to add to the discussion the question of how belief in God infers "god fearing"? Deists believe in God but don't think he cares or involves himself in the affairs of this world; they certainly do not fear him.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 13, 2009, 07:44:57 AM
I'd like to add to the discussion the question of how believe in God infers "god fearing"? Deists believe in God but don't think he cares or involves himself in the affairs of this world; they certainly do not fear him.
I believe, that MOST of the references of "fearing" the Lord is meant more of "praise, honor, revere"....I DO believe that there could be fear in the Wrath of God....
I think MOST of the diests DID revere the Lord.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2009, 08:20:53 AM
I think MOST of the diests DID revere the Lord.
Then it's time for you to go learn more about deism.
Quote from: Locutus on April 10, 2009, 04:24:45 PM
Blasphemy!! You'll be a heathen like me if you keep talkin' like that. :razz: :yes: :biggrin:
Heathen is such an ugly word! :wink:
Quote from: Exterminator on April 13, 2009, 08:28:35 AM
Then it's time for you to go learn more about deism.
let me reprhase....I believe, that those diests that wrote the constitution and our forefatheres..DID revere the Lord....I have NO idea how, most diests think...never really thought about it....but I have read many quotes from Washington and Jefferson, who DID have respect for God.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2009, 09:14:05 AM
let me reprhase....I believe, that those diests that wrote the constitution and our forefatheres..DID revere the Lord....I have NO idea how, most diests think...never really thought about it....but I have read many quotes from Washington and Jefferson, who DID have respect for God.
We've been through this a million times and you only believe that because it's what you
want to believe. It has absolutely no basis in fact.
de⋅ism /ˈdiɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun 1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).
2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 13, 2009, 09:32:56 AM
We've been through this a million times and you only believe that because it's what you want to believe. It has absolutely no basis in fact.
am I to ignore directs quotes from these guys? it is hard to take it any other way.
No don't ignore the lies and deceits against God, continue to state his truth. They win when we are silent. Remember school prayer? It was taken because we were quiet. They also choose to believe what they want to. They spin facts and information to suit their opinion. Just remember to disagree agreeably. Something I struggle with all the time, as I get passionate sometimes. LOL
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2009, 10:29:22 AM
am I to ignore directs quotes from these guys? it is hard to take it any other way.
Especially when you choose to read only those quotes that reinforce your preconceived notions. :rolleyes:
No one "took" school prayer. :rolleyes:
Yes, they did. I grew up with prayer in school and let me tell you it is not there now.
Some schools have been told that they can't have prayer groups before or after school
Some atheists have petitioned to not have prayer before school sport events
All it takes is a few, not majority, to complain that their civil rights are being violated and it is taken away. We are no longer ruled by God Fearing-Loving People, but by whiners and complainers. JMO
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on April 13, 2009, 10:57:19 AM
No one "took" school prayer. :rolleyes:
She's not quite bright enough to understand that forcing all children to recite Christian prayers in public school is forcing her religion on them.
He is not smart enough to realize that at that time the majority of people were Christians and didn't mind prayer. I again state it was a few whiners and dissenters who through the ACLu(a group of communist-socialist lawyers) took it away. We were asleep at the wheel and didn't think it could happen. But it did
So you think it's ok to shove your bullshit down kids' throats as long as it's only one or two of them?
No, the 2 poor souls could of just bowed their heads and been silent. Kind of like how us christians have to do today!
But you have given a perfect analogy of what is going on today. The majority does not rule, just the ones willing to complain or whine that they are being picked upon. Whine, Whine!
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 11:52:40 AM
No, the 2 poor souls could of just bowed their heads and been silent. Kind of like how us christians have to do today!. . .
If you went to school with a group of muslims during their holy days, how willing to sit by and bow your head would you be when they held their required prayer sessions?
Well PH, since I can't pray I guess no one else should be able to either. My civil rights would be assaulted and my self esteem would be wounded. Boo Hoo Boo Hoo
Quote from: Palehorse on April 13, 2009, 12:03:57 PM
If you went to school with a group of muslims during their holy days, how willing to sit by and bow your head would you be when they held their required prayer sessions?
If I went to a school, knowingly that it was predominatly Muslim...then I would have NO problem what-so-ever....
I think instead of excluding ALL prayer time.......there should be a time, everyday, where prayer for those who wish to particpate can be done witout ANY worry of being politically correct or upsetting anyone for doing so....be it a few moments of silence before classes officially begin....for those who are of NO religious affilitation....can still learn to be respectfull of those who are..and sit quietly.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2009, 12:34:13 PM
If I went to a school, knowingly that it was predominatly Muslim...then I would have NO problem what-so-ever....
What if your first or second grade children did? Would you want them exposed to something so diametrically opposed to your beliefs?
Quote from: Bo D on April 13, 2009, 12:41:16 PM
What if your first or second grade children did? Would you want them exposed to something so diametrically opposed to your beliefs?
That is a great question.....IF, i had no other choice that to keep them in a school like that...I THINK, that I could use that opportunity to grow off of "our" Christian beliefs...and teach them, that we are commanded to LOVE our neighbors...and as long as there was no anomosity toward my child, sitting quietly during their prayer time....I think it would be NO problem what-so-ever.
Bullshit alert!
Quote from: Exterminator on April 13, 2009, 01:00:09 PM
Bullshit alert!
why would you say that...IF, THAT was my only alternative.......that is exactly the way I would feel AND handle it....no BS at all... :no:
I didn't know that prayer was completely removed from school. The schools cannot lead prayer, but they don't stop anyone from praying. AHS had in recent years a group of christian students who met at the flagpole before school and had prayer. I know because I had to drop 20 off a couple of times and I sat and watched them do it. Since when does anyone who wishes to pray have to wait for a time to be set aside for it? You can pray anytime, anywhere. Does it have to out loud and distracting to other people? No.
I pray all the time, and you wouldn't know it while I was doing it......since it's none of your (anyone's) business what my relationship with God is, I don't feel the need to pray so everyone can hear me.
Quote from: pariann on April 13, 2009, 02:01:26 PM
I didn't know that prayer was completely removed from school. The schools cannot lead prayer, but they don't stop anyone from praying. AHS had in recent years a group of christian students who met at the flagpole before school and had prayer. I know because I had to drop 20 off a couple of times and I sat and watched them do it. Since when does anyone who wishes to pray have to wait for a time to be set aside for it? You can pray anytime, anywhere. Does it have to out loud and distracting to other people? No.
I pray all the time, and you wouldn't know it while I was doing it......since it's none of your (anyone's) business what my relationship with God is, I don't feel the need to pray so everyone can hear me.
Well put!
Quote from: pariann on April 13, 2009, 02:01:26 PM
I didn't know that prayer was completely removed from school. The schools cannot lead prayer, but they don't stop anyone from praying. AHS had in recent years a group of christian students who met at the flagpole before school and had prayer. I know because I had to drop 20 off a couple of times and I sat and watched them do it. Since when does anyone who wishes to pray have to wait for a time to be set aside for it? You can pray anytime, anywhere. Does it have to out loud and distracting to other people? No.
I pray all the time, and you wouldn't know it while I was doing it......since it's none of your (anyone's) business what my relationship with God is, I don't feel the need to pray so everyone can hear me.
I agree.....and I am simply stating this for schools that does NOT allow it what-so-ever....and to be honest, I could not tell you if THIS trule IS a problem...I am only claiming in CASES that this may be true....I know, In my kids school, there is NO problems...a moment of silence has been allowed...and kids actually DO pray together with NO ramifications.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2009, 02:26:15 PM
.and I am simply stating this for schools that does NOT allow it what-so-ever....
How could any school possibly outlaw silent prayer? How could the classroom police know whether a kid was praying, or catching a quick mental vacation?
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 10:37:14 AM
No don't ignore the lies and deceits against God, continue to state his truth. They win when we are silent. Remember school prayer? It was taken because we were quiet. They also choose to believe what they want to. They spin facts and information to suit their opinion. Just remember to disagree agreeably. Something I struggle with all the time, as I get passionate sometimes. LOL
School prayer is fine for religious schools. Send your kids there. It has no place in a taxpayer funded school.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 11:02:36 AM
Yes, they did. I grew up with prayer in school and let me tell you it is not there now.
Some schools have been told that they can't have prayer groups before or after school
Some atheists have petitioned to not have prayer before school sport events
All it takes is a few, not majority, to complain that their civil rights are being violated and it is taken away. We are no longer ruled by God Fearing-Loving People, but by whiners and complainers. JMO
Yes, it is just awful how in this country, under this Constitution, the tyranny of the majority is checked. We are a nation of laws, not mobs. If you want mob rule, then you will need to live somewhere else.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 11:02:36 AM
Yes, they did. I grew up with prayer in school and let me tell you it is not there now.
Some schools have been told that they can't have prayer groups before or after school
Some atheists have petitioned to not have prayer before school sport events
All it takes is a few, not majority, to complain that their civil rights are being violated and it is taken away. We are no longer ruled by God Fearing-Loving People, but by whiners and complainers. JMO
I grew up saying the pledge without "under god" in it. Now it is a prayer. Sad. See, you gave up a christian prayer in school for a deist one. Just can't win, can you.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 11:16:44 AM
He is not smart enough to realize that at that time the majority of people were Christians and didn't mind prayer. I again state it was a few whiners and dissenters who through the ACLu(a group of communist-socialist lawyers) took it away. We were asleep at the wheel and didn't think it could happen. But it did
You know, I bet you really resent having to drink from the same water fountain, use the same public facilities and ride in front of the bus with those colored people, too. Most christians, and the majority of Americans thought that was OK, too, once upon a time. But, again, we aren't the country of your mob, but the country of OUR laws.
I am a proud sponsor of the ACLU. Everyone should be; at least those who cherish the freedoms we were founded on.
Quote from: dan foster on April 13, 2009, 09:39:22 PM
I am a proud sponsor of the ACLU. Everyone should be; at least those who cherish the freedoms we were founded on.
I wouldn't be so proud of that if I were you. The ACLU protects NAMBLA which is a sick organization.
ACLU protects the constitution. Whether you like it or not, NAMBLA enjoys the same constitutional rights your own employer has.
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 09:45:32 PM
I wouldn't be so proud of that if I were you. The ACLU protects NAMBLA which is a sick organization.
Well, I can't say everything they fight for is the best cause. They defended NAMBLA over the lawsuit just being about NAMBLA's ideas and their freedom to have them, vice supporting the ideas themselves. I also had a problem with the FL ACLU taking the case of a muslim insisting she had the religious right to keep her burka on for her driver's license photo. Bullshit, just like NAMBLA. The ACLU even defends the KLAN, the most detestable group on earth. But, those few instances are of little consequence compared to all the good fights they take on. I will still support them and, as in any good Constitutional Republic like ours, the rights of even your most wretched enemy should be protected. That's what they do.
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 09:45:32 PM
I wouldn't be so proud of that if I were you. The ACLU protects NAMBLA which is a sick organization.
Keep on lettin' ole' Billy O' spoon feed ya' yer' daily dose 'o' propaganda sans the crux of what is really going on. :wink:
Does anyone know what an anti-diest is? Me.
Quote from: dan foster on April 13, 2009, 09:33:48 PM
You know, I bet you really resent having to drink from the same water fountain, use the same public facilities and ride in front of the bus with those colored people, too. Most christians, and the majority of Americans thought that was OK, too, once upon a time. But, again, we aren't the country of your mob, but the country of OUR laws.
Is this your smart ass way of calling me a bigot???? I thought you didn't call names! Well your wrong as usual but I really don't expect any more than that. Way out of line there Dan
Quote from: xman on April 13, 2009, 10:47:02 PM
Does anyone know what an anti-diest is? Me.
Would that be synonymous with atheist? ;D
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 10:50:03 PM
Is this your smart ass way of calling me a bigot???? I thought you didn't call names! Well your wrong as usual but I really don't expect any more than that. Way out of line there Dan
I don't know what you're reading, but he didn't call you a name. Clearly the intent of his post escaped you.
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 10:55:18 PM
I don't know what you're reading, but he didn't call you a name. Clearly the intent of his post escaped you.
Since you know so much, explain it to me. What are you seeing in his retort. I think you need to take off the blinders and see the daylight. Or are you reall that dense??????????
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 10:57:16 PM
Since you know so much, explain it to me. What are you seeing in his retort.
He's trying to explain that believers in ole' Jeebus, such as yourself, thought that the things he posted about were ok in the past. That's what the phrase "once upon a time" means. He wasn't calling you a bigot in any way, shape, or form.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 10:57:16 PM
I think you need to take off the blinders and see the daylight. Or are you reall that dense??????????
Clearly I'm not the dense one, and my blinders were removed a long time ago. Now I'm trying to help you with yours. :wink:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 10:57:16 PM
Since you know so much, explain it to me. What are you seeing in his retort. I think you need to take off the blinders and see the daylight. Or are you reall that dense??????????
Only a fool steps in front of a loaded scatter-gun, and then claims to be the target of the blast.
Quote from: LOsborne on April 13, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Only a fool steps in front of a loaded scatter-gun, and then claims to be the target of the blast.
:yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 11:07:27 PM
He's trying to explain that believers in ole' Jeebus, such as yourself, thought that the things he posted about were ok in the past. That's what the phrase "once upon a time" means. He wasn't calling you a bigot in any way, shape, or form.
Clearly I'm not the dense one, and my blinders were removed a long time ago. Now I'm trying to help you with yours. :wink:
No he was calling me a bigot. If I ever thought things like that were ok then I was a bigot and I never was. You atheists should not lump all of us together, we are different people with different ways. I use to think that about your group but am now questioning it. You just keep proving to me how ignorant and arrogant you are to assume anything about me, without knowing me at all. The nerve of it
Quote from: dan foster on April 13, 2009, 09:53:59 PM
Well, I can't say everything they fight for is the best cause. They defended NAMBLA over the lawsuit just being about NAMBLA's ideas and their freedom to have them, vice supporting the ideas themselves. I also had a problem with the FL ACLU taking the case of a muslim insisting she had the religious right to keep her burka on for her driver's license photo. Bullshit, just like NAMBLA. The ACLU even defends the KLAN, the most detestable group on earth. But, those few instances are of little consequence compared to all the good fights they take on. I will still support them and, as in any good Constitutional Republic like ours, the rights of even your most wretched enemy should be protected. That's what they do.
Do you have a clue what NAMBLA is even? http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/nambla_exposed.htm
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 11:11:20 PM
You just keep proving to me how ignorant and arrogant you are to assume anything about me, without knowing me at all. The nerve of it
What was all that brouhaha about name calling? Turn the other cheek, sugar. And take deep cleansing breaths.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 13, 2009, 11:11:20 PM
No he was calling me a bigot. If I ever thought things like that were ok then I was a bigot and I never was. You atheists should not lump all of us together, we are different people with different ways. I use to think that about your group but am now questioning it. You just keep proving to me how ignorant and arrogant you are to assume anything about me, without knowing me at all. The nerve of it
< Sigh >
He wasn't calling you a bigot, and you're still missing the point. If he had wanted to call you a bigot, he would have said, "mcgonser is a bigot." I've been posting with Dan long enough now to know that if he wanted to call you a bigot, he would have done it straightaway.
Remember, the context is Christianity. Not you.
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:12:35 PM
... http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/nambla_exposed.htm
Holy dogma, Batman! A url called "jesus-is-savior (sic)" with a daughter page labeled "sodomy?" I'm gonna need my hip-waders.
Read the content. Learn about NAMBLA. The ACLU should not be defending these people.
Quote from: LOsborne on April 13, 2009, 11:16:44 PM
Holy dogma, Batman! A url called "jesus-is-savior (sic)" with a daughter page labeled "sodomy?" I'm gonna need my hip-waders.
So what? Do you approve of this organization? Is it bad that the link has Jesus name in it?
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Read the content. Learn about NAMBLA. The ACLU should not be defending these people.
It's a free speech issue. Now you're missing Dan's point as well. The ACLU isn't defending the ideas that NAMBLA espouses, just their right to espouse them.
You read the content. The lawsuit is based on the fact that same sex child molestation carries different penalties than opposite sex child molestation. Do you actually consider one offense to be worse than the other? Remove the knee-jerk reaction to the word "homosexual" and then tell me it's less offensive for a man to have sex with a five-year-old girl than a five-year-old boy.
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Read the content. Learn about NAMBLA. The ACLU should not be defending these people.
This one lil' snippet from that link you provided renders the entire thing invalid for anyone with half a brain.
Quote
Thorstad, of course, is a life-long pederast and homosexual activist who clearly describes the important linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia.
Homosexual men aren't ipso facto pedophiles any more than heterosexual men are.
What I would like to know is why it is they will defend someone who wants to stop prayer but not the rights of someone to hold prayer? Like the senior get togethers in Texas a couple of years ago where they sued to stop them from having a prayer at their get togethers because someone who wasn't even a part of the group or from the area was offended. Things like that happen all over the place and it just isn't right. I'm in the middle on this but the Christians definitely have a point on this.
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:27:22 PM
Is it bad that the link has Jesus name in it?
The fact that the link has Jesus's name in it leads me to believe that civil liberties are not the primary focus of the article. Civil liberties are the primary focus of the ACLU.
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 11:31:15 PM
This one lil' snippet from that link you provided renders the entire thing invalid for anyone with half a brain.
Homosexual men aren't ipso facto pedophiles any more than heterosexual men are.
No, they're not but this group is all about men making love to underaged boys. Any way you look at it they should be disbanded not defended.
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:37:19 PM
What I would like to know is why it is they will defend someone who wants to stop prayer but not the rights of someone to hold prayer? Like the senior get togethers in Texas a couple of years ago where they sued to stop them from having a prayer at their get togethers because someone who wasn't even a part of the group or from the area was offended. Things like that happen all over the place and it just isn't right. I'm in the middle on this but the Christians definitely have a point on this.
Clearly they don't. As I've suggested to you before, you should reduce your daily consumption of Billy O'. :wink:
http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/16230prs20040603.html
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:37:19 PM
Things like that happen all over the place and it just isn't right. I'm in the middle on this but the Christians definitely have a point on this.
Okay, suppose I'm a pagan who believes in animal sacrifice. Do I have the right to slaughter a couple of field mice at the pancake breakfast as my way of saying grace?
But I have to agree that those who don't participate have an unrealistic sense of their own importance when they try to stop a Christian invocation at the Knights of Columbus hog roast.
http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/16230prs20040603.html
^--- In that case, they defended a pastor and his church of their right to conduct baptisms in a river that flowed through a public park. Billy O' always paints the ACLU as an enemy of the state and an enemy of his brainwashed followers.
Stop watching him. It'll cause irreparable drain bammage. :biggrin:
Quote from: LOsborne on April 13, 2009, 11:37:38 PM
The fact that the link has Jesus's name in it leads me to believe that civil liberties are not the primary focus of the article. Civil liberties are the primary focus of the ACLU.
Of course civil liberties aren't the primary focus of the article. The purpose of the article was to tie NAMBLA to homosexuals in general, paint homosexuals in a bad light, and advance the position of this "Christian" website that homosexuals are ipso facto pedophiles.
I'd have to see that somewhere other than on the ACLU page before I'd believe it though. Sorry.
< Sigh again >
It was in the news at the time it occurred. I followed the story.
It appears you suffer from Billy O' induced drain bammage.
BTW, that's further evidence that God sucks and his followers suck even more. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 11:49:25 PM
.... and advance the position of this "Christian" website that homosexuals are ipso facto pedophiles.
Pssst... Locutus, did you know that Christians practice symbolic cannibalism? Really. They do. Look up the sacrament of "holy communion."
See. It all depends on how the subject is presented.
Ok here's another article on NAMBLA
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/nambla.html
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:49:57 PM
I'd have to see that somewhere other than on the ACLU page before I'd believe it though. Sorry.
Will you believe the Washington Post?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16839-2004Jun4?language=printer
Quote from: LOsborne on April 13, 2009, 11:53:48 PM
Pssst... Locutus, did you know that Christians practice symbolic cannibalism? Really. They do. Look up the sacrament of "holy communion."
See. It all depends on how the subject is presented.
Exactly. They think that by chompin' on that lil' wafer every week that they're eating god. :rolleyes:
Quote from: LOsborne on April 13, 2009, 11:57:35 PM
Will you believe the Washington Post?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16839-2004Jun4?language=printer
I told her she needs to stop listening to ole' Billy O'. :yes:
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:54:12 PM
Ok here's another article on NAMBLA
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/nambla.html
The issue is not NAMBLA. The issue is constitutional rights. NAMBLA has them. So does the American Nazi Bund. That's just the way it is. Everybody has them, or
nobody has them!
Even the gay's want nothing to do with NAMBLA it would seem.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1794584/posts
Praying is legal sex with under aged kids isn't.
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 11:58:32 PM
They think that by chompin' on that lil' wafer every week that they're eating god.
Personally, I've always found that a little hard to
swallow! :lol:
Quote from: me on April 13, 2009, 11:54:12 PM
Ok here's another article on NAMBLA
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/nambla.html
From your own article:
Quote
Initially, NAMBLA won considerable support for its efforts from the gay left. Differential age of consent laws for homosexuals and heterosexuals were then (and continue to be) used to target gay sex in jurisdictions around the world, including ones in the United States. Equalization of age of consent laws has been a major part of the struggle for gay rights in the United Kingdom and elsewhere. Some libertarians rallied to this cause, as did such leading feminist writers as Pat Califia, Kate Millett, and Gayle Rubin.
That's what the ACLU was defending. Gay sex shouldn't be the target. Sex with children should be. Please tell me you understand what's going on with the ACLU's involvement in this case.
Quote from: me on April 14, 2009, 12:01:39 AM
Even the gay's want nothing to do with NAMBLA it would seem.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1794584/posts
Exactly, but from the above post, you can see that they've been targeted as a result of them.
Quote from: me on April 14, 2009, 12:03:04 AM
Praying is legal sex with under aged kids isn't.
<pounding head against the wall>
ACLU is not defending pedophilia. ACLU is disputing the penalty difference based on whether the child is a girl or a boy. Why are you not getting this?
Hum, I thought they were protecting them from being part of the suit in the death of that boy because the killers may have been influenced by materials from that organization.
Did Billy O' tell you that? If so, stop watching so much damn Billy O'!! :rant:
You came straight out of the gate attacking the ACLU without a clue of what you were talking about. He does that all the time.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 11:59:36 PM
I told her she needs to stop listening to ole' Billy O'. :yes:
But who will tell her what to think?
Quote from: Locutus on April 14, 2009, 12:25:31 AM
Did Billy O' tell you that? If so, stop watching so much damn Billy O'!! :rant:
You came straight out of the gate attacking the ACLU without a clue of what you were talking about. He does that all the time.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000831/aponline171914_000.htm
Wow. First me posts a 2004 article about the ACLU defending a suit based on unequal penalties. Now we get a 2000 article about blaming the group for a murder based on the fact that one of the people convicted of this murder had viewed the NAMBLA website. Me, have you viewed the website? Has Bill-O? You must have to know so much about what is on it. Shall that fact be presented into evidence the next time you have a parking ticket? Viewing the website undoubtedly has as much to do with your letting the meter expire as it does with a couple of bottom-feeders murdering a kid.
I have read as much as I care to read about the group. You have to give your email addy to even get into the site to find out what it is all about and I will in no way give that garbage group my email addy. You, however, are perfectly welcome to give yours to see what is on the site and what kind of materials they distribute. Maybe I am being a bit close minded about this but I read enough about what this group is and does looking for these articles that I feel they should not even be allowed to exist let alone be defended. Pedophiles are arrested every day just because they have child porn on their computer or have materials in their home even if they aren't suspected of a crime so what makes this group so special?
LMAO! There are two completely different conversations going on here.
Mostly due to the fact that I sided with the Christians on something rather than the atheists.
No, mostly due to the fact that they're talking about the ACLU and you're going on about NAMBLA.
Quote from: Locutus on April 13, 2009, 11:51:53 PM
BTW, that's further evidence that God sucks and his followers suck even more. :yes:
Easy, Dude! I thought I knew you better than that. You can't lump everybody into a category just because a great deal of them suck.
Yeah, Locutus, lighten up, I'm sure you have a friend or two that are followers, and I bet you don't think they suck.
i no suck... :no:
Let me get this right. The ACLU(low life, yellow belly, sap sucking, lawyers) Is defending someones rights to molest children. Period. That is a crime and should be punishable no matter what. They are splitting hairs and saying that because there is a difference between same sex rape of little children they have a case. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! They have no rights like all other criminals when convicted of a crime. This is why I detest the ACLU, they are always looking for loop holes to let criminals off to show how smart they are. Blah! These child molesters are vile, evil and should be punished, period. Thats Thats All Folks!
Another one who doesn't have a clue. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on April 14, 2009, 11:04:26 AM
It is precisely that line of thinking that can set a legal precedent that would remove your own right to express your views within a public venue; such as this very forum.
Which would be wrong despite how attractive it sounds.
Exactly, but you lost her after "It".
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/ACLU.gif)
Again PH, you coulda stopped at "It" :biggrin:
Oh, and these lawyers are members of the ACLU??? I am not against honest hard working lawyers. I wasn't aware that you had to belong to the ACLU to be a lawyer.
A rough & tumble forum for all topics & discussions. If you play here be prepared to take your lumps (and don't whine to mgmt).
Quote from: mcgonser on April 14, 2009, 10:42:48 AM
Let me get this right. The ACLU(low life, yellow belly, sap sucking, lawyers) Is defending someones rights to molest children. Period. That is a crime and should be punishable no matter what. They are splitting hairs and saying that because there is a difference between same sex rape of little children they have a case. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! They have no rights like all other criminals when convicted of a crime. This is why I detest the ACLU, they are always looking for loop holes to let criminals off to show how smart they are. Blah! These child molesters are vile, evil and should be punished, period. Thats Thats All Folks!
I read it as meaning the ACLU lawyers. And from my point of view ya'll are the ones who are clueless so I guess we're even on that count. :razz:
Quote from: me on April 14, 2009, 12:47:34 PM
And from my point of view ya'll are the ones who are clueless so I guess we're even on that count. :razz:
Your point of view in Andertucky? Can you see Russia from there? :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on April 14, 2009, 12:53:54 PM
Your point of view in Andertucky? Can you see Russia from there? :razz:
:toothless: :finger01: :finger2:
ROFL!!!
:biggrin:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 14, 2009, 12:07:16 PM
Oh, and these lawyers are members of the ACLU??? I am not against honest hard working lawyers. I wasn't aware that you had to belong to the ACLU to be a lawyer.
A rough & tumble forum for all topics & discussions. If you play here be prepared to take your lumps (and don't whine to mgmt).
I guess you showed 'em real good. If you had some basis from which to argue that didn't come from My Pet Goat, you might be a bit more persuasive. You haven't made a single valid point. Your strongest argument is, however, "I wasn't aware". It shows.
Quote from: dan foster on April 13, 2009, 09:33:48 PM
You know, I bet you really resent having to drink from the same water fountain, use the same public facilities and ride in front of the bus with those colored people, too. Most christians, and the majority of Americans thought that was OK, too, once upon a time. But, again, we aren't the country of your mob, but the country of OUR laws.
This is a racist, calling someone a bigot quote: I will tell you that there was not only blacks in the protests and marchs during the civil right fight. There was a lot of good old christian whites, jews, and other affiliations in that crowd. And proud of it! Of course you wouldn't know, you weren't there were you. But of course you know all there is to know about it because you are so smart and have such good resources. Being there does not mean anthint, living thru it is bumpus, just as Dan he know it all. By the way how is that ouji board working for you?
Quote from: mcgonser on April 15, 2009, 09:03:38 AM
Being there does not mean anthint, living thru it is bumpus, just as Dan he know it all. By the way how is that ouji board working for you?
Quite a bit better than that keyboard's working for you, apparently.
And, seriously, while we all know what a hotbed of civil rights activity Podunk, Oklahoma was, are you implying that you were involved and do you expect anyone to believe you?
I haven't always lived in Oklahoma, just most of the time. Love it and will stay here as long as I can. We were in Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Colorado, Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona just to name a few. My husband worked for a pipeline company and we traveled for awhile. Loved it and met alot of good people. Also had time to Not mind my own business. As an Okie I will tell you that the people talked about civil rights and prayed real hard for it to come to a just conclusion. They have never believed in slaves and have not supported slavery in any form. If you are from Oklahoma you would know that. okies are an independent, hard working, god loving group of people. That is a fact Jack:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hODiNmWr5Gw
:biggrin:
LMAO! Classic!
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/4a/d/AAAAAt2aGAkAAAAAAErc1g.jpg?v=1179728931000)
Ya know Ex that is not even close to funny. I'm not a Christian and even I think thats just plain rude and crude.
And now guess how much I care what you think?
Probably about as much as I care what you think.
Correct, so don't waste your time or mine in the future.
It's my time and I'll waste it however I chose to do so.
Quote from: me on April 15, 2009, 02:28:33 PM
It's my time and I'll waste it however I chose to do so.
Your choice but with so precious little of it left, you'd think you'd find more constructive ways to use it. :razz:
:biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on April 15, 2009, 03:11:12 PM
Your choice but with so precious little of it left, you'd think you'd find more constructive ways to use it. :razz:
But it's so much fun aggravating you. :biggrin:
Quote from: me on April 15, 2009, 05:17:45 PM
But it's so much fun aggravating you. :biggrin:
Waste it as you wish.
:yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on April 15, 2009, 01:33:40 PM
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/4a/d/AAAAAt2aGAkAAAAAAErc1g.jpg?v=1179728931000)
What a day; people tea bagging in public all over the place and now a blow up jesus doll. Too much :biggrin:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 15, 2009, 09:03:38 AM
This is a racist, calling someone a bigot quote: I will tell you that there was not only blacks in the protests and marchs during the civil right fight. There was a lot of good old christian whites, jews, and other affiliations in that crowd. And proud of it! Of course you wouldn't know, you weren't there were you. But of course you know all there is to know about it because you are so smart and have such good resources. Being there does not mean anthint, living thru it is bumpus, just as Dan he know it all. By the way how is that ouji board working for you?
I guess you sorta missed the point, but I really don't want to have to repeat myself, again, to splain it 2 u.
Or, I miss your point as I don't really understand what it is you are trying to convey. I am a racist for calling you a bigot? Not sure. I only used you as an example of a racist, satirically, to make the point that at one time MOST citizens in the US thought slavery, and subsequent civil rights abuses of blacks were just fine and dandy. MOST doesn't make anything right.
Just don't look back! ;D
If he's a pillar of salt, he already did. :wink: :yes: ;D
QuoteMy point is that there is extraordinary evidence that god, if he exists at all, has gone along his merry way and is no longer concerned with the whole "human" business
part of the problem with organized religion is the tremendous lack of humility. why should we think that god should be conconcerned with us (the human business) in the first place? why do we think that we are so special to be deserving of his concern?
Probably because we, the humans, are his creation. His children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, et al. Would you not be concerned about all that has life because of you? I know I am.....my children, my grandchildren, and perhaps even one day, should I live long enough, my great grandchildren.
The premise would be that God did not just create something and then forgot about it.
And he may be just as concerned with the animal, fowl, and sea creature business. Just as concerned with the flora and fauna as well. Every living organism on Earth.
I don't know about a lack of humility, I don't belong to an organized religion.
Quote from: pariann on April 17, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
Probably because we, the humans, are his creation. His children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, et al. Would you not be concerned about all that has life because of you? I know I am.....my children, my grandchildren, and perhaps even one day, should I live long enough, my great grandchildren.
The premise would be that God did not just create something and then forgot about it.
And he may be just as concerned with the animal, fowl, and sea creature business. Just as concerned with the flora and fauna as well. Every living organism on Earth.
I don't know about a lack of humility, I don't belong to an organized religion.
Are you a christian?
We just can't face the fact that the universe doesn't give a damn whether we are here or not. The Earth could vaporize, and the universe wouldn't even know.
Most people need to think that we matter.
I'm a human being. I believe in a creator. But a lot of people who call themselves Christian, wouldn't like some of the ideas I have regarding my spirituality.
Quote from: pariann on April 18, 2009, 08:59:02 AM
I'm a human being. I believe in a creator. But a lot of people who call themselves Christian, wouldn't like some of the ideas I have regarding my spirituality.
You sound like a deist, then. However, most deists, including our founders, don't believe in the idea that the deity intrudes in anyone's personal lives. Why do you?
Quote from: dan foster on April 18, 2009, 11:04:53 AM
You sound like a deist, then. However, most deists, including our founders, don't believe in the idea that the deity intrudes in anyone's personal lives. Why do you?
Especially since there's an astounding amount of evidence supporting the fact that it doesn't.
Why do you assume it's 'intruding'? I keep concern over my children and grandchildren, and I don't have to intrude into their lives to be concerned.
Quote from: pariann on April 18, 2009, 02:54:22 PM
Why do you assume it's 'intruding'? I keep concern over my children and grandchildren, and I don't have to intrude into their lives to be concerned.
Yes, but all the worrying in the world won't change the outcome of anything, without injecting your presence into their lives. You can't just wish them well and never have any contact with them, their parents, or some other REAL thing in their life. Do you think there is a deity that just sits around all day doing nothing but brooding over our state as a planet and people? And, if there isn't any contact, then HOW DO YOU KNOW?
Well since I'm using myself as an example of a 'creator' of a few select human beings, I shall make the comparison in this way. I have a presence in their lives. Granted, I'm a physical being that you can see and touch, but only if you are where I am. Otherwise, I'm out of sight, yet they still know I exist. When they need me in their lives, they put in a call, I may not be available to answer their call, so they leave a message. When I can fulfill whatever need it is, I do. Sometimes though, the answer is No. I may feel they need to try harder to accomplish what they need done on their own. That's like prayer, in a way. I pray often. I ask for help and guidance. I feel that more often than not, I receive a yes to my needs. And if I were keeping a daily diary here of my 24/7 life you would understand why I feel that way. You can use the word 'coincidence' if you like, but it just happens too often for me to be able to use that word.
So in my belief system, I feel that God does look out for his people and only 'intrudes' as a parent might, when it's absolutely necessary, otherwise, like a good parent, will only intervene if what you need is truly a need that should be met. I believe a lot of things that Christians wouldn't like, that aren't necessarily written down in the book. I am not going to give a tutorial on my belief's, and you can tear apart what I have just written if you like. But it won't change the way I feel, and what I experience more often than not in my life. There is something there, and it's just not that easy to define for those who choose to deal with what we consider logic and factual evidence.
Pariann: How very well put. I really got something out of that post. Thank you.
Yes, that was very well put. That's the way it is with my kids and me. We don't talk every day or see each other every day but we all know if one of us needs the other we will be there whether it's to talk, a shoulder to lean on, or help in any other way. As far as interfering in each others lives it just don't happen.
Quote from: pariann on April 19, 2009, 09:36:04 AM
Well since I'm using myself as an example of a 'creator' of a few select human beings, I shall make the comparison in this way. I have a presence in their lives. Granted, I'm a physical being that you can see and touch, but only if you are where I am. Otherwise, I'm out of sight, yet they still know I exist. When they need me in their lives, they put in a call, I may not be available to answer their call, so they leave a message. When I can fulfill whatever need it is, I do. Sometimes though, the answer is No. I may feel they need to try harder to accomplish what they need done on their own. That's like prayer, in a way. I pray often. I ask for help and guidance. I feel that more often than not, I receive a yes to my needs. And if I were keeping a daily diary here of my 24/7 life you would understand why I feel that way. You can use the word 'coincidence' if you like, but it just happens too often for me to be able to use that word.
So in my belief system, I feel that God does look out for his people and only 'intrudes' as a parent might, when it's absolutely necessary, otherwise, like a good parent, will only intervene if what you need is truly a need that should be met. I believe a lot of things that Christians wouldn't like, that aren't necessarily written down in the book. I am not going to give a tutorial on my belief's, and you can tear apart what I have just written if you like. But it won't change the way I feel, and what I experience more often than not in my life. There is something there, and it's just not that easy to define for those who choose to deal with what we consider logic and factual evidence.
Unlike the telephone calls, the answering machine, your actual feedback to your grandchildren, etc, the only thing that exists between you and your deity is your imagination. Nothing more. Sorry. Your grandchildren have physical evidence you exits. You have none for your deity. Just our imagination.
Quote from: me on April 19, 2009, 12:28:40 PM
Yes, that was very well put. That's the way it is with my kids and me. We don't talk every day or see each other every day but we all know if one of us needs the other we will be there whether it's to talk, a shoulder to lean on, or help in any other way. As far as interfering in each others lives it just don't happen.
But, again, you have a real, physical presence that you and your children share. I guess I just don't happen to need to think there is a "great father in the sky" looking out for me or something I can "lean on". If your deity doesn't interfere, then it is just sitting around "worrying" about you. Does that really help you, day to day; knowing the creator of the universe "worries" about you without interfering? Seems humans, if that is a real need (genetically or otherwise), would probably have made up such a deity no matter what. Oh, yeah. That's right. We did.
pariann says: "I believe a lot of things that Christians wouldn't like, that aren't necessarily written down in the book. I am not going to give a tutorial on my belief's"
Just out of curiosity, how did you come to this relationship with a deity? If not written somewhere, or exposed to you through childhood church-going, etc, how is it you "stumbled" over this "friend" of yours? If not through a religious experience, are you a movie buff on films like Harvey?
Quote from: pariann on April 19, 2009, 09:36:04 AM
Well since I'm using myself as an example of a 'creator' of a few select human beings, I shall make the comparison in this way. I have a presence in their lives. Granted, I'm a physical being that you can see and touch, but only if you are where I am. Otherwise, I'm out of sight, yet they still know I exist. When they need me in their lives, they put in a call, I may not be available to answer their call, so they leave a message. When I can fulfill whatever need it is, I do. Sometimes though, the answer is No. I may feel they need to try harder to accomplish what they need done on their own. That's like prayer, in a way. I pray often. I ask for help and guidance. I feel that more often than not, I receive a yes to my needs. And if I were keeping a daily diary here of my 24/7 life you would understand why I feel that way. You can use the word 'coincidence' if you like, but it just happens too often for me to be able to use that word.
So in my belief system, I feel that God does look out for his people and only 'intrudes' as a parent might, when it's absolutely necessary, otherwise, like a good parent, will only intervene if what you need is truly a need that should be met. I believe a lot of things that Christians wouldn't like, that aren't necessarily written down in the book. I am not going to give a tutorial on my belief's, and you can tear apart what I have just written if you like. But it won't change the way I feel, and what I experience more often than not in my life. There is something there, and it's just not that easy to define for those who choose to deal with what we consider logic and factual evidence.
Very well said: ;D
Hmmm.....maybe I'm not such a moron after all, eh?
Quote from: dan foster on April 19, 2009, 01:16:41 PM
pariann says: "I believe a lot of things that Christians wouldn't like, that aren't necessarily written down in the book. I am not going to give a tutorial on my belief's"
Just out of curiosity, how did you come to this relationship with a deity? If not written somewhere, or exposed to you through childhood church-going, etc, how is it you "stumbled" over this "friend" of yours? If not through a religious experience, are you a movie buff on films like Harvey?
Dan, I didn't say I didn't have any religious background. The topic of this thread is "God Sucks" it's not, "tell me how you came to your belief system". This is my personal relationship, this is my spirtual belief system. I'm not here to sway other people. It doesn't matter where I got my belief system from when it comes to talking to people like you, and I'm sure that aside from a few strong feelings on politics and religion you are probably a very nice guy. But you aren't very tolerant of people who have a differing opinion or outlook on life. You may not see it, but you are preaching just as much as the believers are, trying to convince us to believe as you do. It's a shame that you just can't accept that there are people who post right here on the forum who have a faith in religion and no other agenda towards mankind. That's sad, in my opinion, that you have such a strong drive to tear everyone apart, instead of just letting them believe in what makes them happy.
It also takes a a lot of fun out of life, being as skeptical as you are.
Quote from: pariann on April 19, 2009, 09:31:08 PM
Dan, I didn't say I didn't have any religious background. The topic of this thread is "God Sucks" it's not, "tell me how you came to your belief system". This is my personal relationship, this is my spirtual belief system. I'm not here to sway other people. It doesn't matter where I got my belief system from when it comes to talking to people like you, and I'm sure that aside from a few strong feelings on politics and religion you are probably a very nice guy. But you aren't very tolerant of people who have a differing opinion or outlook on life. You may not see it, but you are preaching just as much as the believers are, trying to convince us to believe as you do. It's a shame that you just can't accept that there are people who post right here on the forum who have a faith in religion and no other agenda towards mankind. That's sad, in my opinion, that you have such a strong drive to tear everyone apart, instead of just letting them believe in what makes them happy.
It also takes a a lot of fun out of life, being as skeptical as you are.
Well, point me to where I am "tearing people apart". In defending my non-belief, do you think I am attacking others? The only time I attack is when people lie, or repeat lies, without the slightest research on their own to back up the lies; hank's insistence that the founders were all card-carrying christians, etc. That is an absolute lie and I WILL attack that kind of stuff. I AM still puzzled how people can believe the ridiculous, but I only make inquiries into that. I don't think I have attacked anyone for believing as they do. I may have done so in the past out of frustration, but you make it sound like I do it routinely. Please point me to where that is, or is it just the same old response to non-belief; one has to be angry, confused, ignorant, etc, not to believe? Is that it, or can you point to something? If you didn't get it, I once believed, so I was in the group that you think I am "tearing apart".
Most of the posts that you make are tearing apart what is said by others....you really can't see it? You disassemble their words and tell them why they are wrong, in your opinion. I didn't say you were overly aggressive...and I don't believe I said you were 'attacking'. I said you don't seem to have any tolerance for those who have faith in a religion.
You choose to be blunt and straightforward with what you say and it DOES come across as extremely condescending and even angry with those who choose to be believers in something that is not what you want to believe. You don't choose to temper what you say, so that it is a real discussion, where someone wants to be forthcoming with you. People would much rather guard their responses while defending their position. it's a type of fear you instill in posters. No one wants to be ridiculed because they hold an opinion or belief. People respond to you with the same tone that you respond to them, and in the end, what it all comes down to, there is no resolution, there is no agreement to disagree, you are right and they are wrong. I'm surprsed that many of them even choose to keep responding.
I read a lot of what you have to say, even though I don't often respond to any of it. And it's almost always the same thing. You don't sound curious and want to know....you seem to want to tell others why they must be wrong. Apparently it's who you are, and you don't mind being that way. Personally, I prefer real discussion where someone actually wants to understand, then just lets me be who I am, without telling me I'm completely wrong. Sometimes...things that don't hurt others, should just be left alone.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/bish.jpg)
My God Does Not Suck!
Sure she does. :biggrin:
HE, does not suck.
So you know it's a him? You've hung out and whatnot?
Youwill have to figure that out for yourself. I am secure in my beliefs and really don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. If you have the right to say that God Sucks, I have the right to say he does not. :smile:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 20, 2009, 12:14:44 PM
Youwill have to figure that out for yourself. I am secure in my beliefs and really don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. If you have the right to say that God Sucks, I have the right to say he does not. :smile:
Ok but when you die and it's just like being asleep forever except that you don't have any dreams, don't say I didn't warn you. Scary, huh; the thought that it just stops?
Quote from: Exterminator on April 20, 2009, 03:53:45 PM
Ok but when you die and it's just like being asleep forever except that you don't have any dreams, don't say I didn't warn you. Scary, huh; the thought that it just stops?
If there was no God, we will not know the difference will we. But there is a God and I will see him someday. I am sorry that you might not.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 20, 2009, 03:53:45 PM
Scary, huh; the thought that it just stops?
But does it really?
Let's step away from the religious concept for just a second and look at it this way.
The atoms that make up what you are now have been in existence since they were cooked inside some ancient, long-gone star. And they won't cease to exist. They will go on to eventually become part of another being.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 20, 2009, 03:57:25 PM
If there was no God, we will not know the difference will we. But there is a God and I will see him someday. I am sorry that you might not.
LMAO...go with that...when you die, it's over but feel free to cling to whatever fantasy you need to make yourself feel better about it.
Quote from: Bo D on April 20, 2009, 04:38:49 PM
But does it really?
Let's step away from the religious concept for just a second and look at it this way.
The atoms that make up what you are now have been in existence since they were cooked inside some ancient, long-gone star. And they won't cease to exist. They will go on to eventually become part of another being.
Ah, the butterfly effect...perhaps that is true but I doubt we will be aware of how our scattered waste continues.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 20, 2009, 05:06:46 PM
Ah, the butterfly effect...perhaps that is true but I doubt we will be aware of how our scattered waste continues.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Carl Jung wrote of "racial memory" in which he espouses the idea that our very atoms possess some sort of "memory"
And Jack London expanded on the idea in "Before Adam"
Quote from: Bo D on April 20, 2009, 05:11:36 PM
Maybe. Maybe not.
Carl Jung wrote of "racial memory" in which he espouses the idea that our very atoms possess some sort of "memory"
And Jack London expanded on the idea in "Before Adam"
Feel free to come back and tell us about the afterlife. I'm betting there'll be nothing.
Quote from: Bo D on April 20, 2009, 05:11:36 PM
Maybe. Maybe not.
Carl Jung wrote of "racial memory" in which he espouses the idea that our very atoms possess some sort of "memory"
And Jack London expanded on the idea in "Before Adam"
Well, let's see; the human body is about 61.8 percent water, by weight. The water molecules in your body dry up and enter the ground around you, if ever so slowly. Maybe you provide enough moisture to wet the skin of a deeply buried toad or some form of larvae. Since they replace your blood (which is about 95 percent water), you don't really have much water left, anyway. The carbon molecules don't really get out of the vault you are in (fat, protein, etc). So, what do you contribute to, in the end?
Of course, the best way to go is cremation; all the water and most of the carbon in your body is released to the air or in the form of ash that can be scattered somewhere where it can be used again. Otherwise, you can only hope for a leaky (buy a cheap one) casket that allows the worms in.
That takes care of your body, and that is all that is left when you die. I wouldn't set up shop finding new uses for them, just yet (we have enough churches already).
God Made Me Do It:QuoteFaith killing. A young mother maintained that voices in her head told her to test her faith in God, causing her to repeatedly slam her infant son to the ground and down a flight of stairs. Jennifer Cisowski, 21, of Connecticut, killed her 8-month-old son Gideon Fusscas in his grandmother's upscale Florida home on Aug. 21, later saying she believed he would rise from the dead if her faith were strong enough. Source: Tampa Tribune, Aug. 22, 2001
"Mama, I love you." A Talladega County jury in August found Teresa Ann Archie, 40, guilty of the 1996 murder of her daughter Shavon Jackson. Archie, a paranoid schizophrenic, chased her daughter through their home, shooting her twice in the back after becoming convinced her 16-year-old was possessed by Satan, and that God wanted her to cleanse her home of all Satanic influence. She told police Shavon's last words were: "Mama, don't shoot me, I love you." She replied, "I know, Baby, but I have to do the Lord's will." Source: The Daily Home, Aug. 15, 2001
"Killer, we support you." "I killed the women for the sake of God, and for the protection of my religion because they were prostitutes and [were] corrupting other people," Iranian construction worker Saeed Hanaei admitted to reporters in July, after police fingered him as their suspect in the killing of 19 prostitutes in Mashhad. Each was killed on a Sunday--strangled with a headscarf. Neighbors gathered outside his home chanting "Hanaei, the killer of corrupt people, we support you." Source: Associated Press, July 26/30, 2001
"Possessed woman." Andrea Yates, the religious Dallas mother charged with drowning her 5 children in the bathtub, told family members from jail she thinks the "devil" is in her. Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, July 1, 2001
Naked avenger. A naked man who pelted rocks at a woman walking her dog and struck her with his car in January told police "demons wanted him to destroy her," and he was naked "so he could enter the kingdom of God." Jessica Fulcher, 28, survived the assault. Source: Loveland Reporter-Herald, Jan. 15, 2001
God's crime spree. God made him commit a crime spree was the defense of bible-toting Henry Glen West, sentenced by an Okahoma County judge in April to two life terms. During West's 5-hour crime spree in January 1998, he severely beat his brother, raped his brother's girlfriend, broke into a house, robbed a convenience store clerk and then tried to run her over twice. At a second convenience store, he repeatedly shot the husband-and-wife owners. Source: Daily Oklahoman, April 21, 2001
Religiously-motivated stabbing. A man who fatally stabbed his son and tried to kill his mother-in-law and daughter was motivated by religion, according to relatives. Joseph Herman Dartez, Jr., 31, Houston, was pondering whether to leave a Christian church to join the Muslim faith when he assaulted his family in the middle of the night. Source: San Antonio Express, May 30, 2001
Sainted mob. A mob summoned by a church bell in Mexico City beat to death a man accused of trying to steal a statue of the neighborhood's patron saint. The 3-hour beating occurred next to a local police station. Source: AP/Tulsa World, July 27, 2001
Stealing in the Name of God
"I've been a securities regulator for 20 years, and I've seen more money stolen in the name of God than in any other way," Deborah R. Bortner, president of the North American Securities Administrators Association, said at a news conference on Aug. 7.
She warned that "affinity fraud"--the building of trust through religious and other loyalty, is increasing. In the last three years, religious con artists in 27 states have scammed at least 90,000 investors, costing more than $1.8 billion.
By comparison, about 13,000 investors lost $450 million in religion-based fraud over the previous 5-year period.
"Con artists are clearly preying on the faithful more than ever before," said Bortner. "The con artist makes faith in God synonymous with faith in the investment scam."
The caveat by the Association came a day after the sentencing of Gerald Payne, founder of the Tampa-based Greater Ministries International Church, to 27 years in prison for one of the nation's largest Ponzi schemes. Payne and his partners took in almost $580 million by promising 20,000 investors that the ministry would double their money through "divinely-inspired investments."
Another recent high profile case involves the Baptist Foundation of Arizona, created in 1948 under the auspices of the Southern Baptist State Convention of Arizona, which raised $590 million through 120 shell corporations.
http://ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/sep01/other.html
Quote from: dan foster on April 20, 2009, 06:30:56 PM
Well, let's see; the human body is about 61.8 percent water, by weight. The water molecules in your body dry up and enter the ground around you, if ever so slowly. Maybe you provide enough moisture to wet the skin of a deeply buried toad or some form of larvae. Since they replace your blood (which is about 95 percent water), you don't really have much water left, anyway. The carbon molecules don't really get out of the vault you are in (fat, protein, etc). So, what do you contribute to, in the end?
Of course, the best way to go is cremation; all the water and most of the carbon in your body is released to the air or in the form of ash that can be scattered somewhere where it can be used again. Otherwise, you can only hope for a leaky (buy a cheap one) casket that allows the worms in.
That takes care of your body, and that is all that is left when you die. I wouldn't set up shop finding new uses for them, just yet (we have enough churches already).
First of all, (for Ex) you may recall I asked "Let's step away from the religious concept for just a second." I now realize that maybe I should have started a new thread given the title of this one. My bad.
Second, (for Dan) I didn't mention molecules. But yes, you are correct about the casket. The Indians had a better idea. Put the bodies up on a platform and let the little animal eat them.
Your question "So, what do you contribute to, in the end?" ... You don't have to wait until the end. Your body is constantly sloughing off dead cells that is food for the tiny animals. Your excrement is being composted and spread on roadsides to fertilize the grass to feed the deer, etc., etc.
Quote from: Bo D on April 21, 2009, 08:58:39 AM
First of all, (for Ex) you may recall I asked "Let's step away from the religious concept for just a second." I now realize that maybe I should have started a new thread given the title of this one. My bad.
Second, (for Dan) I didn't mention molecules. But yes, you are correct about the casket. The Indians had a better idea. Put the bodies up on a platform and let the little animal eat them.
Your question "So, what do you contribute to, in the end?" ... You don't have to wait until the end. Your body is constantly sloughing off dead cells that is food for the tiny animals. Your excrement is being composted and spread on roadsides to fertilize the grass to feed the deer, etc., etc.
Yuk. I would bet some of us contribute more than others :biggrin:
Quote from: dan foster on April 21, 2009, 06:29:25 PM
Yuk. I would bet some of us contribute more than others :biggrin:
I'd go so far as to say some contribute a LOT more than others. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: dan foster on April 19, 2009, 09:55:46 PM
hank's insistence that the founders were all card-carrying christians, etc. That is an absolute lie and I WILL attack that kind of stuff. I AM still puzzled how people can believe the ridiculous, but I only make inquiries into that. I don't think I have attacked anyone for believing as they do. I may have done so in the past out of frustration, but you make it sound like I do it routinely.
First of all.....I have NEVER said they were "card-carrying christians"...I have been through this a thousand times on here....I HAVE stated that the VAST Majority of those guys were Bible-believing and had faith in the Creator...It is YOU who continue to claim that they were ALL diests or athiests.......and THAT is NOT true what-so-ever...and I have proved it with sound resources....and you ALWAYS,...ALWAYS comeback with a fury and half pissed..or lie pari sadi..lack of tolerance for others beliefs...and THAT was routinely....THAT is why I discontinued conversing with you (for the most part anyway)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 28, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: dan foster on April 19, 2009, 09:55:46 PM
hank's insistence that the founders were all card-carrying christians, etc. That is an absolute lie and I WILL attack that kind of stuff. I AM still puzzled how people can believe the ridiculous, but I only make inquiries into that. I don't think I have attacked anyone for believing as they do. I may have done so in the past out of frustration, but you make it sound like I do it routinely.
First of all.....I have NEVER said they were "card-carrying christians"...I have been through this a thousand times on here....I HAVE stated that the VAST Majority of those guys were Bible-believing and had faith in the Creator...It is YOU who continue to claim that they were ALL diests or athiests.......and THAT is NOT true what-so-ever...and I have proved it with sound resources....and you ALWAYS,...ALWAYS comeback with a fury and half pissed..or lie pari sadi..lack of tolerance for others beliefs...and THAT was routinely....THAT is why I discontinued conversing with you (for the most part anyway)
Nope. Sorry. The principal founders were not only NOT christians, they were NOT bible toting worshipers of your god, no matter how many times and different ways you claim them to be. MOST were deists. They rejected christianity AND the god of the bible. AND, they sure didn't want any of that interfering with the gov't they were embarking on. Anything else is simply a lie.
Quote from: dan foster on April 28, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 28, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: dan foster on April 19, 2009, 09:55:46 PM
hank's insistence that the founders were all card-carrying christians, etc. That is an absolute lie and I WILL attack that kind of stuff. I AM still puzzled how people can believe the ridiculous, but I only make inquiries into that. I don't think I have attacked anyone for believing as they do. I may have done so in the past out of frustration, but you make it sound like I do it routinely.
First of all.....I have NEVER said they were "card-carrying christians"...I have been through this a thousand times on here....I HAVE stated that the VAST Majority of those guys were Bible-believing and had faith in the Creator...It is YOU who continue to claim that they were ALL diests or athiests.......and THAT is NOT true what-so-ever...and I have proved it with sound resources....and you ALWAYS,...ALWAYS comeback with a fury and half pissed..or lie pari sadi..lack of tolerance for others beliefs...and THAT was routinely....THAT is why I discontinued conversing with you (for the most part anyway)
Nope. Sorry. The principal founders were not only NOT christians, they were NOT bible toting worshipers of your god, no matter how many times and different ways you claim them to be. MOST were deists. They rejected christianity AND the god of the bible. AND, they sure didn't want any of that interfering with the gov't they were embarking on. Anything else is simply a lie.
Whats the deal? got an inside line to our forefathers or something. do you talk to them at seance's? Weird! You have come to your conclusion from what you have read or heard, but you are dead wrong. Funny, dead! It is the height of arrogance to think that your opinion is the only one that is right. Thats alright, I really don't expect any different. I personally don't know who was a christian or not, who was a deist or not, but I think that not all of them was any one thing. Shame on you for you egotisical and biased rant.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 29, 2009, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: dan foster on April 28, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 28, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: dan foster on April 19, 2009, 09:55:46 PM
hank's insistence that the founders were all card-carrying christians, etc. That is an absolute lie and I WILL attack that kind of stuff. I AM still puzzled how people can believe the ridiculous, but I only make inquiries into that. I don't think I have attacked anyone for believing as they do. I may have done so in the past out of frustration, but you make it sound like I do it routinely.
First of all.....I have NEVER said they were "card-carrying christians"...I have been through this a thousand times on here....I HAVE stated that the VAST Majority of those guys were Bible-believing and had faith in the Creator...It is YOU who continue to claim that they were ALL diests or athiests.......and THAT is NOT true what-so-ever...and I have proved it with sound resources....and you ALWAYS,...ALWAYS comeback with a fury and half pissed..or lie pari sadi..lack of tolerance for others beliefs...and THAT was routinely....THAT is why I discontinued conversing with you (for the most part anyway)
Nope. Sorry. The principal founders were not only NOT christians, they were NOT bible toting worshipers of your god, no matter how many times and different ways you claim them to be. MOST were deists. They rejected christianity AND the god of the bible. AND, they sure didn't want any of that interfering with the gov't they were embarking on. Anything else is simply a lie.
Whats the deal? got an inside line to our forefathers or something. do you talk to them at seance's? Weird! You have come to your conclusion from what you have read or heard, but you are dead wrong. Funny, dead! It is the height of arrogance to think that your opinion is the only one that is right. Thats alright, I really don't expect any different. I personally don't know who was a christian or not, who was a deist or not, but I think that not all of them was any one thing. Shame on you for you egotisical and biased rant.
My opinion is really of no consequence, at all. The only thing that really matters is the elimination of any reference to a "god" in our Constitution, and the strict edict to keep church and state separate, within it as well. No opinion can change that and I am proud the lies of a "christian nation" will never prevail.
Nope. Sorry. The principal founders were not only NOT christians, they were NOT bible toting worshipers of your god, no matter how many times and different ways you claim them to be. MOST were deists. They rejected christianity AND the god of the bible. AND, they sure didn't want any of that interfering with the gov't they were embarking on. Anything else is simply a lie.
[/quote]
My opinion is really of no consequence, at all. The only thing that really matters is the elimination of any reference to a "god" in our Constitution, and the strict edict to keep church and state separate, within it as well. No opinion can change that and I am proud the lies of a "christian nation" will never prevail.
[/quote]
Yet these deists and non believers put God in our constitution: Could it be that they reconized how important God was, or even that there is a God? Tell me since you seem to know everything they were thinking and doing. Oh powerful one. :wink: :wink:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 30, 2009, 12:05:12 PM
Yet these deists and non believers put God in our constitution: Could it be that they reconized how important God was, or even that there is a God? Tell me since you seem to know everything they were thinking and doing. Oh powerful one. :wink: :wink:
They did? Can you show me where in the Constitution god is mentioned?
Quote from: dan foster on April 28, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
Nope. Sorry. The principal founders were not only NOT christians, they were NOT bible toting worshipers of your god, no matter how many times and different ways you claim them to be. MOST were deists. They rejected christianity AND the god of the bible. AND, they sure didn't want any of that interfering with the gov't they were embarking on. Anything else is simply a lie.
Why do you think the Continental Congress began its sessions with prayer, a practice that is followed by both houses of congress even today......are they praying to the boogie man?...the Bible was endorsed by our Founders....they even purchase 20,000 bibles for this nation....there is NO lie....the vast majority of those guys went to a Christian Church...regularly....
you show me where they 'rejected' Christianity...they didn't.
I KNOW that our Constitution does not have God mentioned in it....(directly)....and I believe that our forefathers never intended to have God pushed upon anyone...nor, did they ever think that God should be cast aside or not be revered. But to say that God and the Bible did NOT influence the frame of thought of these guys that wrote our Constitution is wrong....there are several direct quotes that support this...and the people of that era held God as a revered institution...look at the preambles to every State Constitution...look at the founding Universities.....God was/is a enormous part of this Nations heritage....anything else is a lie. ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 01:31:51 PM
I KNOW that our Constitution does not have God mentioned in it....(directly)....
Or indirectly.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2009, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 01:31:51 PM
I KNOW that our Constitution does not have God mentioned in it....(directly)....
Or indirectly.
God is not anywhere mentioned in the Book of Esther in the Old Testament...but it is clear His hand was throughout it....as many Americans believe that God's hand is clearly written in the Constitution...though He is not mentioned.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
God is not anywhere mentioned in the Book of Esther in the Old Testament...but it is clear His hand was throughout it....as many Americans believe that God's hand is clearly written in the Constitution...though He is not mentioned.
Your "proof" is an analogy between a fairy tale and our Constitution? That logic is as circular as 'the bible is true because it says in it that it's true'.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2009, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
God is not anywhere mentioned in the Book of Esther in the Old Testament...but it is clear His hand was throughout it....as many Americans believe that God's hand is clearly written in the Constitution...though He is not mentioned.
Your "proof" is an analogy between a fairy tale and our Constitution? That logic is as circular as 'the bible is true because it says in it that it's true'.
Just pointing out an observation....that's all.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 02:41:47 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2009, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
God is not anywhere mentioned in the Book of Esther in the Old Testament...but it is clear His hand was throughout it....as many Americans believe that God's hand is clearly written in the Constitution...though He is not mentioned.
Your "proof" is an analogy between a fairy tale and our Constitution? That logic is as circular as 'the bible is true because it says in it that it's true'.
Just pointing out an observation....that's all.
It's ridiculous.
The Separation Of Church and State
The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state (James Madison said it "drew a line," but it is Jefferson's term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion. The Religion Topic Page addresses this issue in much greater detail.
Thanks to Pat Roche for the idea.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2009, 02:56:26 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 02:41:47 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2009, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 30, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
God is not anywhere mentioned in the Book of Esther in the Old Testament...but it is clear His hand was throughout it....as many Americans believe that God's hand is clearly written in the Constitution...though He is not mentioned.
Your "proof" is an analogy between a fairy tale and our Constitution? That logic is as circular as 'the bible is true because it says in it that it's true'.
Just pointing out an observation....that's all.
It's ridiculous.
in your opinion...
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
It has often been seen on the Internet that to find God in the Constitution, all one has to do is read it, and see how often the Framers used the words "God," or "Creator," "Jesus," or "Lord." Except for one notable instance, however, none of these words ever appears in the Constitution, neither the original nor in any of the Amendments. The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion. In fact, the original Constitution bars any religious test to hold any federal office in the United States.
Thanks to James MacDonald for the idea.
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2009, 02:24:22 PM
That logic is as circular as 'the bible is true because it says in it that it's true'.
That's true! :biggrin:
Loud applause for mcgonser for providing that valuable link (I bookmarked it) as well as for quoting excerpts from it.
Mcgonser, I've only been here a couple of weeks, but from what I've seen, you are one heck of a good sport.
Thank You Lo: I will take all the compliments I can get. LOL ;D :biggrin: :yes:
Quote from: mcgonser on April 30, 2009, 03:39:01 PM
The Separation Of Church and State
The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state (James Madison said it "drew a line," but it is Jefferson's term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion. The Religion Topic Page addresses this issue in much greater detail.
Thanks to Pat Roche for the idea.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Does the Constitution identify the God, Thor as the almighty?
Quote from: mcgonser on April 30, 2009, 03:39:01 PM
The Separation Of Church and State
The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state (James Madison said it "drew a line," but it is Jefferson's term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion. The Religion Topic Page addresses this issue in much greater detail.
Thanks to Pat Roche for the idea.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
So what is your point? That church and state should join together? I think you will find Jefferson's, et al, intent clearly from his own mouth:
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21
I wasn't addressing Jeffersons intentions or thoughts, just what is actually written. To me it is clear that they (all) who agreed to sign, that the government should keep its nose out of all church and religious dealings. To repeat myself, because in Europe where they came from the gov or monarchy ran the Church's and ruled over them. They wanted true freedom to worship or not to worship without persecution.
Quote from: mcgonser on April 30, 2009, 09:49:09 PM
I wasn't addressing Jeffersons intentions or thoughts, just what is actually written. To me it is clear that they (all) who agreed to sign, that the government should keep its nose out of all church and religious dealings. To repeat myself, because in Europe where they came from the gov or monarchy ran the Church's and ruled over them. They wanted true freedom to worship or not to worship without persecution.
Wow. You did get it.
Quote from: dan foster on April 30, 2009, 09:32:25 PM
Does the Constitution identify the God, Thor as the almighty?
Bite your tongue, Dan! His Noisiness already has delusions of adequacy. Calling him the Almighty is like naming a five-year-old with a Bob-the-Builder set as Supreme Being.
:)
As written:
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
As read by the "Leftist zealots":
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or, with the exception of political speech 60 days before an election, abridging the freedom of speech, unless it's conservative commentators, or of the press, except for conservative publications; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, unless it's citizens holding a tea party, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
GoJ drops in to offer some douche-baggery!
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
GoJ drops in to offer some douche-baggery!
and I LOVE IT!!!... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 10:38:21 AM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
GoJ drops in to offer some douche-baggery!
and I LOVE IT!!!... :yes:
Who wants to see my best surprised look?
Yeah....c'mere, let me see it.
Quote from: pariann on May 01, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
Yeah....c'mere, let me see it.
Surprise me! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
GoJ drops in to offer some douche-baggery re-ality!
Fixed! ;)
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 01, 2009, 11:44:04 AM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
GoJ drops in to offer some douche-baggery re-ality!
Fixed! ;)
Perhaps that's your version of
reality, but my copy of the Constitution doesn't say that.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 12:21:07 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 01, 2009, 11:44:04 AM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
GoJ drops in to offer some douche-baggery re-ality!
Fixed! ;)
Perhaps that's your version of reality, but my copy of the Consitution doesn't say that.
neither so my copy....but that SEEMS to be the interpretation by the liberals...but then again I CAN SPELL ... CONSTITUTION.. :yes: :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 12:28:45 PM
neither so my copy....but that SEEMS to be the interpretation by the liberals...but then again I CAN SPELL ... CONSTITUTION.. :yes: :razz:
And yet, you still can't quite conjugate the verb 'be'; puzzling.
(and if you want to criticize others on spelling and grammar when they make typos, you might want to avoid sentences like, 'neither so my copy')
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 12:33:23 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 12:28:45 PM
neither so my copy....but that SEEMS to be the interpretation by the liberals...but then again I CAN SPELL ... CONSTITUTION.. :yes: :razz:
And yet, you still can't quite conjugate the verb 'be'; puzzling.
(and if you want to criticize others on spelling and grammar when they make typos, you might want to avoid sentences like, 'neither so my copy')
:rant:.....I KNEW this would bite me in the ass..... ;D ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 12:35:42 PM
:rant:.....I KNEW this would bite me in the ass..... ;D ;D
LMAO!
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 01, 2009, 10:23:59 AM
As written:
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
As read by the "Leftist zealots":
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or, with the exception of political speech 60 days before an election, abridging the freedom of speech, unless it's conservative commentators, or of the press, except for conservative publications; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, unless it's citizens holding a tea party, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
:biggrin: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 01, 2009, 10:23:59 AM
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or, with the exception of political speech 60 days before an election, abridging the freedom of speech, unless it's conservative commentators, or of the press, except for conservative publications; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, unless it's citizens holding a tea party, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I gotta ask ... which one of you poor hard-done-by conservative activists weren't allowed to campaign for your candidate 60 days before the election? Which conservative commentators are suffering under a gag order? Which conservative publication was shut down (outside of the scores going belly-up from declining circulation and rising costs --but that doesn't apply to conservative rags only?) And which of you weren't allowed to attend a tea party? I must have missed all that while I was busy working for a living.
Quote from: LOsborne on May 01, 2009, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 01, 2009, 10:23:59 AM
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or, with the exception of political speech 60 days before an election, abridging the freedom of speech, unless it's conservative commentators, or of the press, except for conservative publications; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, unless it's citizens holding a tea party, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I gotta ask ... which one of you poor hard-done-by conservative activists weren't allowed to campaign for your candidate 60 days before the election? Which conservative commentators are suffering under a gag order? Which conservative publication was shut down (outside of the scores going belly-up from declining circulation and rising costs --but that doesn't apply to conservative rags only?) And which of you weren't allowed to attend a tea party? I must have missed all that while I was busy working for a living.
Yes, the gov't has been busy shutting down churches and forbidding prayer in the remaining ones. You missed all that, too? :biggrin:
(http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2009/04/30/boll/story.gif)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/godslove.jpg)
Rather queer to be hearing Liberals whine about what is and isn't in the U.S. Constitution, isn't it Henry?
As if they gave a damn, lol!
If they did, they would understand the reason for the tea parties and join them rather than belittle them.
Here's couple of questions for these self-actualized Constitutional scholars ("...but my copy of the Constitution doesn't say that."):
1) Please cite for the assembled masses the passage in the Constitution that confers upon the Federal Government the right to terminate the employment of the president of a publicly held company?
2) Please also cite the passage that confers upon the Federal Government the right to hold shares of stock (let alone a controlling interest) in a publicly held company?
And one from the "General Knowledge of Governance" category:
3) What is the name for the system of government where the means of production may be privately owned but controlled by the government, as we see with the Obama administration?
Give up? This might help: http://freedomkeys.com/isms.htm (http://freedomkeys.com/isms.htm) It's a comparison chart of various political-economic systems.
Too lazy to read the chart? Ok, here's the answer:
"Free enterprise capitalism exists only when people in the private sector are free to pursue their own interests without direction from government. When politicians start passing laws to tell them what to do, or bureaucrats start issuing edicts to tell them what to do, it is no longer capitalism; it's fascism." -- Rick Gaber (emphasis mine - GoJ)
Henry, I'm guessing that Ex, Dan, and WVA Gal look very snazzy in their Brown shirts, don't you? :biggrin:
and those little mustache's too... :biggrin:
GOJ, you are so right about the tea parties.....the left is doing everything they can to ridicule them....but let me tell you...there WERE some honestly intellect democrats there, who SEE what is going on and disagree with it......these tea parties are true grass roots and are REAL concerned Americans....and it is very reassuring to me to see this happening..
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 05, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
Rather queer to be hearing Liberals whine about what is and isn't in the U.S. Constitution, isn't it Henry?
As if they gave a damn, lol!
That's pretty rich coming from someone who was busy turning his brain to soup with drugs and alcohol while I was serving my country in defense of that Constitution.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 05, 2009, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 05, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
Rather queer to be hearing Liberals whine about what is and isn't in the U.S. Constitution, isn't it Henry?
As if they gave a damn, lol!
That's pretty rich coming from someone who was busy turning his brain to soup with drugs and alcohol while I was serving my country in defense of that Constitution.
are you admitting that you are a liberal?...
That's true, Henry. I'm sure those Dem's who participated will be marched off to the gulag as soon as their traitorous names are made public.
Did you check out that comparison chart in my post above? It does a pretty succinct job of stating what everyone who pays attention already knows: Conservatives are about freedom, Liberals are about death, taxes, and regulation.
Say, how do you like my new tag line? It was inspired by "Ol' Dan Foster's" tag line. It just goes to show that inspiration can come from anywhere. Heck, even Jerry Lewis was inspired to great things by the crippled and retarded!
:thumbsup:
'Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.' - William Penn
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 05, 2009, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 05, 2009, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 05, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
Rather queer to be hearing Liberals whine about what is and isn't in the U.S. Constitution, isn't it Henry?
As if they gave a damn, lol!
That's pretty rich coming from someone who was busy turning his brain to soup with drugs and alcohol while I was serving my country in defense of that Constitution.
are you admitting that you are a liberal?...
More of a radical.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 05, 2009, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 05, 2009, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 05, 2009, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 05, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
Rather queer to be hearing Liberals whine about what is and isn't in the U.S. Constitution, isn't it Henry?
As if they gave a damn, lol!
That's pretty rich coming from someone who was busy turning his brain to soup with drugs and alcohol while I was serving my country in defense of that Constitution.
are you admitting that you are a liberal?...
More of a radical.
I knew that...but a radical WHAT?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 05, 2009, 02:23:05 PM
I knew that...but a radical WHAT?
radical
Favoring or effecting fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practices, conditions, or institutions.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 05, 2009, 12:46:42 PM
and those little mustache's too... :biggrin:
GOJ, you are so right about the tea parties.....the left is doing everything they can to ridicule them....but let me tell you...there WERE some honestly intellect democrats there, who SEE what is going on and disagree with it......these tea parties are true grass roots and are REAL concerned Americans....and it is very reassuring to me to see this happening..
Well, Henry, apparently the Brownshirts are still perusing their copy of the Constitution, looking for the passages I requested.
They haven't even made their usual lame-ass attempts at whining about George Bush.
They jut KNOW that Obama had the right to fire the president of GM, they just KNOW it!
Methinks they are confusing their pristine copy of the U. S. Constitution with their well dog-eared copy of The Communist Manifesto.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 05, 2009, 02:20:18 PM
More of a radical.
Ex, I've always preferred the term "iconoclast."
Y'all are still gathering under your chosen banners: Liberal, Conservative, Christian, Atheist, Soccer Mom, Business Leader, Homer, Jethro. Don't any of you see the danger in allowing anyone to make decisions for you? When did you get so lazy you take anyone's word for anything? Learn to fact-check. Question. Read the people you think you agree with, AND the people you think have their heads up their asses. If you mother tells you she loves you, get it from a second source. And always remember, there are no constants in this world.
By the way, I'm still recruiting for the revolution, if anyone is interested.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 05, 2009, 12:46:42 PM
and those little mustache's too... :biggrin:
GOJ, you are so right about the tea parties.....the left is doing everything they can to ridicule them....but let me tell you...there WERE some honestly intellect democrats there, who SEE what is going on and disagree with it......these tea parties are true grass roots and are REAL concerned Americans....and it is very reassuring to me to see this happening..
Let's call it like it is; the teabaggers were a bunch of racist assholes that had only one thing in common; hatred of a black president. No coherent, real message, just hate for a black man.
As for the Constitution, it really is funny to hear a couple of fascists lecturing anyone about the Constitution. Ghast of Jack Off, you will need to go back in history and kill Hamilton for setting up the Federal Reserve and allowing the gov't to control THAT PRIVATE INSTITUTION, jackass (I said jack off, but jackass is more appropriate).
And for you, hank, the other Constitutional scholar; where in the Constitution does it proclaim one nation under god, christian nation, or any other bits of horse shit you keep espousing from your lofty perch?
You are totally mistaken about the people who were protesting, or tea baggers as you call them. They were Democrats as well as Republicans and they were business people as well as retirees and blue collar workers. They were not protesting the President they were protesting policies and taxes. Fox News did not organize it nor did they have anything to do with it other than covering it.
Quote from: dan foster on May 05, 2009, 10:45:24 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 05, 2009, 12:46:42 PM
and those little mustache's too... :biggrin:
GOJ, you are so right about the tea parties.....the left is doing everything they can to ridicule them....but let me tell you...there WERE some honestly intellect democrats there, who SEE what is going on and disagree with it......these tea parties are true grass roots and are REAL concerned Americans....and it is very reassuring to me to see this happening..
Let's call it like it is; the teabaggers were a bunch of racist assholes that had only one thing in common; hatred of a black president. No coherent, real message, just hate for a black man.
As for the Constitution, it really is funny to hear a couple of fascists lecturing anyone about the Constitution. Ghast of Jack Off, you will need to go back in history and kill Hamilton for setting up the Federal Reserve and allowing the gov't to control THAT PRIVATE INSTITUTION, jackass (I said jack off, but jackass is more appropriate).
And for you, hank, the other Constitutional scholar; where in the Constitution does it proclaim one nation under god, christian nation, or any other bits of horse shit you keep espousing from your lofty perch?
While discussing the April 15 protests on his April 6 program, Glenn Beck suggested that viewers could "[c]elebrate with Fox News" by either attending a protest or watching it on Fox News. Beck stated that in addition to himself, hosts Neil Cavuto, Greta Van Susteren, and Sean Hannity would be "live" at different protests. While Beck spoke, on-screen text labeled those protests as "FNC Tax Day Tea Parties."
TaxDayTeaParty.com lists Fox News contributors Michelle Malkin and Tammy Bruce as "Tea Party Sponsors." The sponsors section also lists American Solutions for Winning the Future, whose general chairman is Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich. Gingrich filmed a video "invitation" to attend the April 15 protests. According to TaxDayTeaParty.com, "Gingrich will be a featured speaker" at the April 15 protest in New York City.
Okay, so the excerpt I've quoted is from MEDIA MATTERS, not itself the most "fair and balanced" news outlet in the country ... it still provides verifiable names, dates and events which can be fact-checked. Rest assured, I did so before posting it.
I'm not saying that Fox News endorsing (sponsoring is a little over-the-top don't you think?) the Tea Parties is bad. Not saying it's good either. I'm just saying it happened. What is the point of denying it?
Quote from: dan foster on May 05, 2009, 10:45:24 PM
And for you, hank, the other Constitutional scholar; where in the Constitution does it proclaim one nation under god, christian nation, or any other bits of horse shit you keep espousing from your lofty perch?
What is the mater with you?...I have NEVER said our Constitution says we are one nation under God....I AM saying 100%, that the vast majority of people of that time, revered GOD... Prayer WAS important...the BIBLE was placed as an important tool...so much that our first congress BOUGHT 20,000 of them...EVERY states Constitution DOES refer to GOD.....WHY do you not want to accept THAT?....I'm not saying that THOSE who do not believe or BAD people....the fact that our Nation was ONCE made up, primarily of Godly people...
as far as the TeaParties...you are the one that is full of horse shit.....THOSE are your everyday, hardworking people of all ages...and they have NO hatred towards RACE....only hatred to ANYBODY who is trying to CHANGE our nation into a socialistic, government controlled nation...that is it.....period.
I find YOU to be the biggest RACIEST on this forum....it is you who does NOT understand what he is talking about when you on almost ALL issues we discuss....In MY HUMBLE OPINION.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 08:13:27 AM...it is you who does NOT understand what he is talking about when you on almost ALL issues we discuss...
I gotta admit, I don't understand this phrase.
Quote from: LOsborne on May 06, 2009, 07:56:10 AM
While discussing the April 15 protests on his April 6 program, Glenn Beck suggested that viewers could "[c]elebrate with Fox News" by either attending a protest or watching it on Fox News. Beck stated that in addition to himself, hosts Neil Cavuto, Greta Van Susteren, and Sean Hannity would be "live" at different protests. While Beck spoke, on-screen text labeled those protests as "FNC Tax Day Tea Parties."
TaxDayTeaParty.com lists Fox News contributors Michelle Malkin and Tammy Bruce as "Tea Party Sponsors." The sponsors section also lists American Solutions for Winning the Future, whose general chairman is Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich. Gingrich filmed a video "invitation" to attend the April 15 protests. According to TaxDayTeaParty.com, "Gingrich will be a featured speaker" at the April 15 protest in New York City.
Okay, so the excerpt I've quoted is from MEDIA MATTERS, not itself the most "fair and balanced" news outlet in the country ... it still provides verifiable names, dates and events which can be fact-checked. Rest assured, I did so before posting it.
I'm not saying that Fox News endorsing (sponsoring is a little over-the-top don't you think?) the Tea Parties is bad. Not saying it's good either. I'm just saying it happened. What is the point of denying it?
When Fox News found out about the protests they decided to attend some of them and talked to some of the people in different cities to decide which ones to go to they did not initiate any of them. The other media could have done the same but they chose instead to make these people out as a bunch of malcontents protesting the President rather than showing it for what it really was, a protest against taxes and policy and it would have been the same if the President had been white. It was not against a black president being in the white house in any shape or form.
Quote from: LOsborne on May 06, 2009, 08:19:07 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 08:13:27 AM...it is you who does NOT understand what he is talking about when you on almost ALL issues we discuss...
I gotta admit, I don't understand this phrase.
that WAS pretty bad.. :yes:..I was typing and talking on the phone during that phase of my post... :-[
the jest of my point was to illustrate to Dan, that it is MY belief, that he does not fully comprehend the issue he is 'badmouthing'...on certain issues that are being discussed....
my apologies... :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 08:13:27 AM
What is the mater with you?...I have NEVER said our Constitution says we are one nation under God....I AM saying 100%, that the vast majority of people of that time, revered GOD... Prayer WAS important...the BIBLE was placed as an important tool...so much that our first congress BOUGHT 20,000 of them...EVERY states Constitution DOES refer to GOD.....WHY do you not want to accept THAT?....I'm not saying that THOSE who do not believe or BAD people....the fact that our Nation was ONCE made up, primarily of Godly people...
as far as the TeaParties...you are the one that is full of horse shit.....THOSE are your everyday, hardworking people of all ages...and they have NO hatred towards RACE....only hatred to ANYBODY who is trying to CHANGE our nation into a socialistic, government controlled nation...that is it.....period.
I find YOU to be the biggest RACIEST on this forum....it is you who does NOT understand what he is talking about when you on almost ALL issues we discuss....In MY HUMBLE OPINION.
I think it's interesting to contemplate, Henry, the fact that as people in this country have moved away traditional (read: biblical) values such as honesty, integrity, and chastity, we have watched society's ills increase. For example, would STD's and AIDS in particular even BE a problem if people didn't engage in the unchaste behaviors that cause them to spread? How many fewer Bernie Madoffs would there be if people in general were more honest and operated aboveboard, with integrity? The Liberals trying to legislate "tolerance" makes no more sense than did Prohibition. Both are attempts to legislate morality, which cannot be done. Morality comes from something innate, not from external pressures. And morality requires
a priori knowledge of good and evil. It certainly is not something that could have "evolved" in humans.
Something else, Henry: if the tea-baggers are racists merely because they protest against Obama's demonstrably fascist policies, how much more racist are the slightly-less-than-one-half of Democrat voters who voted
against Obama and
for Hillary in the Democrat primaries, before anyone knew how each would govern? And of course, the Obama Democrat voters are misogynists for NOT voting for Hillary.
Speaking of fascism, someone on this thread doesn't understand the definition of "fascist", and therefore is making himself look like a "jackass".
By the way, contrary to the accusation, I haven't lectured ANYBODY. I think I have been accused of that because the accuser (and his ilk) is apparently unable to answer the simple questions I put forth. Maybe it's a lack of reading ability, or maybe they are still frantically looking for answers by thumbing through their copy of The Communist Manifesto, once again mistaking it for the U.S. Constitution. It must be very frustrating.
And speaking of the U. S. Constitution, if I had spent time as a soldier defending that magnificent document and it's principles, I can't imagine that I would now be ridiculing people who are holding tea parties in an effort to bring attention to the fact that those very same principles are being undermined by the highest political office-holder in this land.
"Hamilton"? What jackass brought up Alexander Hamilton? Is he president today? Didn't think so.
Remember Henry: when the jackasses cannot answer simple, reasonable questions, they begin to bray epithets in an attempt to throw you off.
"Eternal damnation and punishment...well, at least whining, crying, and petulant foot-stomping, await those question the Democrat Party's unconditional tolerance" - GoJ
Quote from: LOsborne on May 05, 2009, 07:21:13 PM
By the way, I'm still recruiting for the revolution, if anyone is interested.
You have MY attention.. ;)
Well said GoJ!!!.... :yes:
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 12:59:01 PM
I think it's interesting to contemplate, Henry, the fact that as people in this country have moved away traditional (read: biblical) values such as honesty, integrity, and chastity, we have watched society's ills increase. For example, would STD's and AIDS in particular even BE a problem if people didn't engage in the unchaste behaviors that cause them to spread? How many fewer Bernie Madoffs would there be if people in general were more honest and operated aboveboard, with integrity? The Liberals trying to legislate "tolerance" makes no more sense than did Prohibition. Both are attempts to legislate morality, which cannot be done. Morality comes from something innate, not from external pressures. And morality requires a priori knowledge of good and evil. It certainly is not something that could have "evolved" in humans.
Is smoking crack part of that wondrous morality and lofty principles?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:18:20 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 12:59:01 PM
I think it's interesting to contemplate, Henry, the fact that as people in this country have moved away traditional (read: biblical) values such as honesty, integrity, and chastity, we have watched society's ills increase. For example, would STD's and AIDS in particular even BE a problem if people didn't engage in the unchaste behaviors that cause them to spread? How many fewer Bernie Madoffs would there be if people in general were more honest and operated aboveboard, with integrity? The Liberals trying to legislate "tolerance" makes no more sense than did Prohibition. Both are attempts to legislate morality, which cannot be done. Morality comes from something innate, not from external pressures. And morality requires a priori knowledge of good and evil. It certainly is not something that could have "evolved" in humans.
Is smoking crack part of that wondrous morality and lofty principles?
why don't you ask Obama?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:20:58 PM
why don't you ask Obama?
More of your lies, Henry?
Have you been living under a rock? (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/1/3/23218/91557)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:27:52 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:20:58 PM
why don't you ask Obama?
More of your lies, Henry?
Have you been living under a rock? (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/1/3/23218/91557)
Where does it say anything about smoking crack or are you just twisting facts because you are an inherently dishonest person?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:27:52 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:20:58 PM
why don't you ask Obama?
More of your lies, Henry?
Have you been living under a rock? (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/1/3/23218/91557)
Where does it say anything about smoking crack or are you just twisting facts because you are an inherently dishonest person?
whatever ex.....you want to have a pissing match on what constitute CRACK?...the bottom line is you are being obnoxious...and you get that way when you don't come out looking so good.
to the point I'm tired of arguing about it.
You know what gets me? George Bush drank some when he was younger and all the Dems had a fit over that and he was vilified for it but Obama admits to having used drugs including cocaine and none of the Dems find anything wrong with that. :confused:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
whatever ex.....you want to have a pissing match on what constitute CRACK?...the bottom line is you are being obnoxious...and you get that way when you don't come out looking so good.
to the point I'm tired of arguing about it.
There's a huge difference between coke and crack and the segments of society with which either is typically associated. Your comment about Obama reeks of racism.
Quote from: me on May 06, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
You know what gets me? George Bush drank some when he was younger and all the Dems had a fit over that and he was vilified for it but Obama admits to having used drugs including cocaine and none of the Dems find anything wrong with that. :confused:
Because Bush is an assclown and a moron.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: me on May 06, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
You know what gets me? George Bush drank some when he was younger and all the Dems had a fit over that and he was vilified for it but Obama admits to having used drugs including cocaine and none of the Dems find anything wrong with that. :confused:
Because Bush is an assclown and a moron.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: me on May 06, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
You know what gets me? George Bush drank some when he was younger and all the Dems had a fit over that and he was vilified for it but Obama admits to having used drugs including cocaine and none of the Dems find anything wrong with that. :confused:
Because Bush is an assclown and a moron.
TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE!!!.... ;D
Seriously this is starting suck around here..... :no:
It has gotten rather off topic.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:55:25 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
whatever ex.....you want to have a pissing match on what constitute CRACK?...the bottom line is you are being obnoxious...and you get that way when you don't come out looking so good.
to the point I'm tired of arguing about it.
There's a huge difference between coke and crack and the segments of society with which either is typically associated. Your comment about Obama reeks of racism.
kiss my ass EX........that is ALWAYS the answer to getting your ass kicked....turn the tables...........f'off with your racism busllshit....this pisses my ass of dickhead.....
THAT is the LIBERAL way.....cry freaking racism.....BULLSHIT!!!
There is serious problem going on around here....
Quote from: me on May 06, 2009, 01:59:36 PM
It has gotten rather off topic.
I have figured out Ex's ways.....get things off topic and he won't have to answer any questions thrown at him
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: me on May 06, 2009, 01:59:36 PM
It has gotten rather off topic.
I have figured out Ex's ways.....get things off topic and he won't have to answer any questions thrown at him
Yep, when he gets in a corner he does it everytime.... :biggrin:
Going off topic here isn't a problem; the "God Sucks" thread was worn out, wrung out, and left laying out in the rain, anyway. And don't most threads in this area wind up as a poop-on-a-stick fencing match between Ex and Henry, anyhoo? :yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:18:20 PM
Is smoking crack part of that wondrous morality and lofty principles?
Henry, notice that the questions (still) haven't been answered and the epithets continue?
It's as if they are destined to prove me correct every time the type a response.
In any event, I never associated smoking crack with "wondrous morality and lofty principles".
However, the inability to type an eleven-word question using the correct grammatical structure might be associated with smoking crack. ;)
Quote from: me on May 06, 2009, 01:50:51 PM
You know what gets me? George Bush drank some when he was younger and all the Dems had a fit over that and he was vilified for it but Obama admits to having used drugs including cocaine and none of the Dems find anything wrong with that. :confused:
It's just professional courtesy.
Quote from: Ma and Pa on May 06, 2009, 02:06:37 PM
Going off topic here isn't a problem; the "God Sucks" thread was worn out, wrung out, and left laying out in the rain, anyway. And don't most threads in this area wind up as a poop-on-a-stick fencing match between Ex and Henry, anyhoo? :yes:
This one seems to come and go for some reason...ya never know what it will turn into next...it's like a soapie...lol
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:18:20 PM
Is smoking crack part of that wondrous morality and lofty principles?
Henry, notice that the questions (still) haven't been answered and the epithets continue?
It's as if they are destined to prove me correct every time the type a response.
In any event, I never associated smoking crack with "wondrous morality and lofty principles".
However, the inability to type an eleven-word question using the correct grammatical structure might be associated with smoking crack. ;)
THAT IS a FACT GoJ!!..He will NOT answer a question directly, if he knows he can't look good at...his ego is too damn big to discuss a simple issue...or answer a simple question... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:59:49 PM
kiss my ass EX........that is ALWAYS the answer to getting your ass kicked....turn the tables...........f'off with your racism busllshit....this pisses my ass of dickhead.....
THAT is the LIBERAL way.....cry freaking racism.....BULLSHIT!!!
There is serious problem going on around here....
Whoa, just turn the cheek, brother. :biggrin:
Quote from: pariann on May 06, 2009, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:59:49 PM
kiss my ass EX........that is ALWAYS the answer to getting your ass kicked....turn the tables...........f'off with your racism busllshit....this pisses my ass of dickhead.....
THAT is the LIBERAL way.....cry freaking racism.....BULLSHIT!!!
There is serious problem going on around here....
Whoa, just turn the cheek, brother. :biggrin:
sorry Pari....I'm kind of losing myself here a tad..
Quote
I have figured out Ex's ways.....get things off topic and he won't have to answer any questions thrown at him
He
can't answer them Henry. He doesn't know anything, he only pretends.
He is a poseur.
Remember? I set a nifty little trap for him, he fell into it, and I exposed him for what he really is.
It was quite the denouement, as I recall, and the remembrance of it brings a smile to my face still.
Maybe you should go find it and re-post it here! It would surely make you feel better!
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 02:19:26 PM
Quote
I have figured out Ex's ways.....get things off topic and he won't have to answer any questions thrown at him
He can't answer them Henry. He doesn't know anything, he only pretends.
He is a poseur.
Remember? I set a nifty little trap for him, he fell into it, and I exposed him for what he really is.
It was quite the denouement, as I recall, and it brought me loads of satisfaction.
Keep telling yourself that, delusional fool.
QuoteMaybe you should go find it and re-post it here! It would surely make you feel better!
It's you who keeps avoiding the question...is your drug abuse indicative of the wonderous morals and lofty principles you claim for yourself?
Quote from: pariann on May 06, 2009, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:59:49 PM
kiss my ass EX........that is ALWAYS the answer to getting your ass kicked....turn the tables...........f'off with your racism busllshit....this pisses my ass of dickhead.....
THAT is the LIBERAL way.....cry freaking racism.....BULLSHIT!!!
There is serious problem going on around here....
Whoa, just turn the cheek, brother. :biggrin:
Heheh! If telling someone to "kiss your ass" isn't turning the other "cheek", Pari, I don't know what is, lol!
You absolutely know that is not the cheek I was referring to. LOL
I get to call Henry on bad language every so often. Everyone else likes to feed into his anger, I just try to temper it. :wink:
Rodney King just called: wants to know if we can't just all get along? I blew Ma's police whistle in his ear.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 06, 2009, 01:55:25 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
whatever ex.....you want to have a pissing match on what constitute CRACK?...the bottom line is you are being obnoxious...and you get that way when you don't come out looking so good.
to the point I'm tired of arguing about it.
There's a huge difference between coke and crack and the segments of society with which either is typically associated. Your comment about Obama reeks of racism.
kiss my ass EX........that is ALWAYS the answer to getting your ass kicked....turn the tables...........f'off with your racism busllshit....this pisses my ass of dickhead.....
THAT is the LIBERAL way.....cry freaking racism.....BULLSHIT!!!
There is serious problem going on around here....
LMAO! You're so classy.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: pariann on May 06, 2009, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 01:59:49 PM
kiss my ass EX........that is ALWAYS the answer to getting your ass kicked....turn the tables...........f'off with your racism busllshit....this pisses my ass of dickhead.....
THAT is the LIBERAL way.....cry freaking racism.....BULLSHIT!!!
There is serious problem going on around here....
Whoa, just turn the cheek, brother. :biggrin:
sorry Pari....I'm kind of losing myself here a tad..
No, you're exposing yourself.
Henry, am I "delusional" or did the denouement linked below actually occur exactly as I said?
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13312.msg300648#msg300648 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13312.msg300648#msg300648)
I set a trap, I executed the trap, and exposed someone for what they truly are: a poseur.
Seems to me that the delusional one would be the person who didn't believe that it actually happened (and to THEM).
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 02:38:20 PM
Henry, am I "delusional" or did the denouement linked below actually occur exactly as I said?
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13312.msg300648#msg300648 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13312.msg300648#msg300648)
I set a trap, I executed the trap, and exposed someone for what they truly are: a poseur.
Seems to me that the delusional one would be the person who didn't believe that it actually happened (and to THEM).
You're hallucinating...again.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/joy.jpg)
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 02:38:20 PM
Henry, am I "delusional" or did the denouement linked below actually occur exactly as I said?
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13312.msg300648#msg300648 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13312.msg300648#msg300648)
I set a trap, I executed the trap, and exposed someone for what they truly are: a poseur.
Seems to me that the delusional one would be the person who didn't believe that it actually happened (and to THEM).
Nicely done!!... ;D ;)
I have no clue what "trap" you are celebrating yourself for having sprung. I wasn't here when the thread was active.
However.... I'll play.
GofJ said:
QuoteI mean it, Ex. I will leave this board forever. All you have to do is prove that your statement above, "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)", is the truth rather than a lie.
Don't talk smack and don't change the subject. Just. Prove. It.
So here ya go:
http://www.faireconomy.org/press_room/1997/born_on_third_base_sources_of_wealth_of_1997_forbes_400
This is an examination of the Forbes 400 in 1997. That's twelve years ago, but those years haven't been lucrative for entrepreneurs, so I imagine the figures are actually conservative. For those who don't want to wade through the link, in 1997, 79% of the people on the Forbes 400 list chose their grandparents wisely, rather than bootstrapping their way to wealth. Is the bet still good?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 08:45:25 AM
that WAS pretty bad.. :yes:..I was typing and talking on the phone during that phase of my post... :-[
the jest of my point was to illustrate to Dan, that it is MY belief, that he does not fully comprehend the issue he is 'badmouthing'...on certain issues that are being discussed....
my apologies... :)
No worries. You are talking to the Grand Poobah of the finger-fumble. I do use spell-check, but usually I correctly spell the wrong word entirely. :oops:
As for your point that Dan does not fully comprehend the issue, I think it is more likely that you are each focusing on different facets of the issue. That seems to happen a lot here. Remember the ACLU/NAMBLA thread? Passionate posts from each side which did not actually address what the other side was saying.
I've found it helps to keep your sense of perspective if you imagine the other posters typing with a little grin on their faces.
That's enough schmaltz. What was my prize for winning that bet?
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 06, 2009, 12:59:01 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 06, 2009, 08:13:27 AM
What is the mater with you?...I have NEVER said our Constitution says we are one nation under God....I AM saying 100%, that the vast majority of people of that time, revered GOD... Prayer WAS important...the BIBLE was placed as an important tool...so much that our first congress BOUGHT 20,000 of them...EVERY states Constitution DOES refer to GOD.....WHY do you not want to accept THAT?....I'm not saying that THOSE who do not believe or BAD people....the fact that our Nation was ONCE made up, primarily of Godly people...
as far as the TeaParties...you are the one that is full of horse shit.....THOSE are your everyday, hardworking people of all ages...and they have NO hatred towards RACE....only hatred to ANYBODY who is trying to CHANGE our nation into a socialistic, government controlled nation...that is it.....period.
I find YOU to be the biggest RACIEST on this forum....it is you who does NOT understand what he is talking about when you on almost ALL issues we discuss....In MY HUMBLE OPINION.
I think it's interesting to contemplate, Henry, the fact that as people in this country have moved away traditional (read: biblical) values such as honesty, integrity, and chastity, we have watched society's ills increase. For example, would STD's and AIDS in particular even BE a problem if people didn't engage in the unchaste behaviors that cause them to spread? How many fewer Bernie Madoffs would there be if people in general were more honest and operated aboveboard, with integrity? The Liberals trying to legislate "tolerance" makes no more sense than did Prohibition. Both are attempts to legislate morality, which cannot be done. Morality comes from something innate, not from external pressures. And morality requires a priori knowledge of good and evil. It certainly is not something that could have "evolved" in humans.
Something else, Henry: if the tea-baggers are racists merely because they protest against Obama's demonstrably fascist policies, how much more racist are the slightly-less-than-one-half of Democrat voters who voted against Obama and for Hillary in the Democrat primaries, before anyone knew how each would govern? And of course, the Obama Democrat voters are misogynists for NOT voting for Hillary.
Speaking of fascism, someone on this thread doesn't understand the definition of "fascist", and therefore is making himself look like a "jackass".
By the way, contrary to the accusation, I haven't lectured ANYBODY. I think I have been accused of that because the accuser (and his ilk) is apparently unable to answer the simple questions I put forth. Maybe it's a lack of reading ability, or maybe they are still frantically looking for answers by thumbing through their copy of The Communist Manifesto, once again mistaking it for the U.S. Constitution. It must be very frustrating.
And speaking of the U. S. Constitution, if I had spent time as a soldier defending that magnificent document and it's principles, I can't imagine that I would now be ridiculing people who are holding tea parties in an effort to bring attention to the fact that those very same principles are being undermined by the highest political office-holder in this land.
"Hamilton"? What jackass brought up Alexander Hamilton? Is he president today? Didn't think so.
Remember Henry: when the jackasses cannot answer simple, reasonable questions, they begin to bray epithets in an attempt to throw you off.
"Eternal damnation and punishment...well, at least whining, crying, and petulant foot-stomping, await those question the Democrat Party's unconditional tolerance" - GoJ
I find it interesting, as we have moved away from the ignorance that morality comes from some middle-eastern tribe of bronze-age cowards, that our society has gotten past; slavery (including natives, africans and women), child abuse in the form of sweat shops, poverty driven by good christian businessmen, lynch mobs, most racisim, non-equal justice systems, poor education, fear of science, etc, etc,
Now, if we could just get that 20 percent of dumbasses left, that include NASCAR, Raslin, Limpball and megachurch fans (includes me, jaskoff and hank), to finally wake up and stop voting GOP/Fascist tickets, we might just have a chance to really grow as a society.
GOP Facist???? :rolleyes:
Quote from: LOsborne on May 06, 2009, 07:04:25 PM
I have no clue what "trap" you are celebrating yourself for having sprung. I wasn't here when the thread was active.
However.... I'll play.
GofJ said:
QuoteI mean it, Ex. I will leave this board forever. All you have to do is prove that your statement above, "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)", is the truth rather than a lie.
Don't talk smack and don't change the subject. Just. Prove. It.
So here ya go:
http://www.faireconomy.org/press_room/1997/born_on_third_base_sources_of_wealth_of_1997_forbes_400
This is an examination of the Forbes 400 in 1997. That's twelve years ago, but those years haven't been lucrative for entrepreneurs, so I imagine the figures are actually conservative. For those who don't want to wade through the link, in 1997, 79% of the people on the Forbes 400 list chose their grandparents wisely, rather than bootstrapping their way to wealth. Is the bet still good?
LMAO! (http://www.chipmunk-scripts.com/smiley/pwnedfinal.gif) Here's the part where he'll go back on his bet and expose himself as a liar (of the highest moral caliber, of course).
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 07:08:31 AMHere's the part where he'll go back on his bet and expose himself as a liar (of the highest moral caliber, of course).
Well, assuming he doesn't, what did I win?
Quote from: LOsborne on May 07, 2009, 07:43:51 AM
Well, assuming he doesn't, what did I win?
A brand new car! :biggrin:
YYYYAYYYYYY!!!
You'll win it, but you will never see it. :wink:
btw.....getting back on point.......God is Great!!!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
btw.....getting back on point.......God is Great!!!
That's not what this thread is about. :no:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
btw.....getting back on point.......God is Great!!!
You're no fun. Why won't you celebrate my winning the car?
Quote from: LOsborne on May 07, 2009, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
btw.....getting back on point.......God is Great!!!
You're no fun. Why won't you celebrate my winning the car?
Well God is Great...He gave you a new car... ;) :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 08:28:41 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
btw.....getting back on point.......God is Great!!!
That's not what this thread is about. :no:
There is alot on here not about this thread. On this page alone there is stuff about the GOP being facists and someone being right (nothing to do with God) and getting a car. Soooo, I take it that you are the boss on what is ok and not ok to post, HUH?
By the way congratulations Lo on the new car ;D :biggrin: :yes:
Quote from: mcgonser on May 07, 2009, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 08:28:41 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
btw.....getting back on point.......God is Great!!!
That's not what this thread is about. :no:
There is alot on here not about this thread. On this page alone there is stuff about the GOP being facists and someone being right (nothing to do with God) and getting a car. Soooo, I take it that you are the boss on what is ok and not ok to post, HUH?
By the way congratulations Lo on the new car ;D :biggrin: :yes:
You really aren't the brightest bulb in the chandelier; are you? When someone says, "getting back on point," it is reasonable to assume that he/she is returning to the subject of the thread.
well, I believe the thread is about God, soooo he was back on topic. Just not something you agreed with I think. ;D
Quote from: mcgonser on May 07, 2009, 09:21:05 AM
well, I believe the thread is about God, soooo he was back on topic. Just not something you agreed with I think. ;D
The thread is about God sucking.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: mcgonser on May 07, 2009, 09:21:05 AM
well, I believe the thread is about God, soooo he was back on topic. Just not something you agreed with I think. ;D
The thread is about God sucking.
and I contest that He does NOT....He is Great!!!......
You haven't grasped the concept of debating have you?........................uh...never mind.....YOU HAVE... :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 10:23:55 AM
...You haven't grasped the concept of debating have you?........................uh...never mind.....YOU HAVE... :razz:
Of course I have and on a grand scale. I'm one of the most prolific mass-debaters out there! :biggrin:
LO: Next time Ma & I get down to Evansville, you can take us for a ride in your new car! Maybe we can cruise across the river to Ralph's Hickory Pit for some BBQ! ;D
Quote from: me on May 07, 2009, 12:07:27 AM
GOP Fascist???? :rolleyes:
A common delusion of the Left: accuse others of the very characteristics that they, themselves, possess. In psychology it's called "transference".
Racism is a perfect example of political transference. The Left accuses the Right of being "racist" (racist meaning the belief that some races are superior to others). Yet, if the Left truly believed that "all men are created equal", wouldn't they decry programs and policies that grant special rights and status to minority groups? Wouldn't they instead join the Right in demanding that
everyone be held to the SAME standard?
As for the anti-religious zealot* "Ol' df", his failure to comprehend the definition of Fascism (despite adequate resources for discovering the definition being placed, metaphorically, directly under his mouse pointer) causes him to not only fail to use it correctly, but to also fail to see that what the Obama administration has been engaged in vis-a-vis government takeover of public corporations, and especially Obama's firing of the president of GM, is a textbook example of Fascism. Leading me to muse upon other descriptive terms for "Ol dan foster" that the initials "df" might conjure.
*(You'd think "anti-religious zealot" to be an oxymoron; but upon reading "Ol' df's" vehemence-dripping posts, and noting his predisposition to insert anti-religion diatribes into even the most mundane secular discussions, you realize that not only is "anti-religious zealot" an apt description of "Ol df", but in his case his own mindset leaves scarcely any room for the "oxy-" part.
"Eternal damnation and punishment...well, at least whining, crying, and petulant foot-stomping, await those question the Democrat Party's unconditional tolerance" - GoJ
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 07:08:31 AM
Quote from: LOsborne on May 06, 2009, 07:04:25 PM
I have no clue what "trap" you are celebrating yourself for having sprung. I wasn't here when the thread was active.
However.... I'll play.
GofJ said:
QuoteI mean it, Ex. I will leave this board forever. All you have to do is prove that your statement above, "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)", is the truth rather than a lie.
Don't talk smack and don't change the subject. Just. Prove. It.
So here ya go:
http://www.faireconomy.org/press_room/1997/born_on_third_base_sources_of_wealth_of_1997_forbes_400
This is an examination of the Forbes 400 in 1997. That's twelve years ago, but those years haven't been lucrative for entrepreneurs, so I imagine the figures are actually conservative. For those who don't want to wade through the link, in 1997, 79% of the people on the Forbes 400 list chose their grandparents wisely, rather than bootstrapping their way to wealth. Is the bet still good?
LMAO! (http://www.chipmunk-scripts.com/smiley/pwnedfinal.gif) Here's the part where he'll go back on his bet and expose himself as a liar (of the highest moral caliber, of course).
Is this where I say, "I told you so"?
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 07, 2009, 10:57:02 AM
A common delusion of the Left: accuse others of the very characteristics that they, themselves, possess. In psychology it's called "transference".
Of course it is; too bad you're unwilling or unable to consider the possibility that it is
you who is guilty of this delusion.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/satan.jpg)
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 10:23:55 AM
...You haven't grasped the concept of debating have you?........................uh...never mind.....YOU HAVE... :razz:
Of course I have and on a grand scale. I'm one of the most prolific mass-debaters out there! :biggrin:
and THAT folks is the best quote of the day!!... :biggrin:
:biggrin:
Prolific mass? You makin' fun of me now, Ex?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 07, 2009, 08:55:22 AM
Well God is Great...He gave you a new car...
No He didn't. Ghost of Jaco did. He did, didn't he? I haven't looked in the garage yet.
Ex, Pari, Mac, and even you, Hank, 'cause you did acknowledge my good fortune, I will throw you all in the backseat (I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a rag-top) while Ma and Pa join me up front. We'll make sure the numbers on the speedometer are honest while we try to break Mach One on the way to Ralph's for ribs and pulled pork. YYYAYYYY!!!!
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 07, 2009, 10:57:02 AM
blah, blah, blah... no mention of Lolly winning the bet. No mention of the bet at all!
WTF????
Quote from: LOsborne on May 07, 2009, 06:53:12 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 07, 2009, 10:57:02 AM
blah, blah, blah... no mention of Lolly winning the bet. No mention of the bet at all!
WTF????
Absolutely no mention of the bet?
GoJ is absolutely flippin' clASSic.
Runnin' the moral high ground, all academic 'n' sech.
Then welchin' like a lil' child when called on the big bet.
:busted:
Kinda makes ya wanna ........... :puke:
:chair:
:biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 07, 2009, 07:47:30 AM
Quote from: LOsborne on May 07, 2009, 07:43:51 AM
Well, assuming he doesn't, what did I win?
A brand new car! :biggrin:
I do believe in this post Ex is the one that said you won a new car so he should be the one to pay off.
You're no fun, either, me.
I won the bet! If a car is not the prize, G of J should have told me what the real prize is.
G of J is a no-good-dirty-rotten-stick-up-his-butt-poorly-endowed-non-amusing welcher!
But I still think Ex should come up with a car since he's the one that offered it. :yes: :biggrin:
Hmmmmm....... good point. And that way I would still get the car.
Okay me. I take it back. You're lots of fun, and you can come eat barbecue with us!
Oh goody I love BBQ.... :smile:
YYAAYYYY!!!!!
Quote from: mcgonser on May 07, 2009, 11:32:26 AM
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/satan.jpg)
Do you really believe there is a boogie man called satan? Do you understand the error of "his" creation by the "creator"? These children's stories were just used to scare children, but are you at least over the age of 12?
Quote from: dan foster on May 07, 2009, 09:06:08 PM
Do you really believe there is a boogie man called satan?
Do you believe in barbecue? C'mon, Dan. We're trying to shame G of J into paying up, so I can take everybody to Ralph's Hickory Pit.
What if I preferred to go to Sonny's, or Bono's? Both in Jax Fla, btw, I think a REAL road trip is in order here.
Hey if you guys road trip to Jax, I may drive up from Fort Lauderdale. ;D
I have a brother-in-law (the good kind) that lives in Jax.
Jax is a pretty cool town. Not as cool as Lauderdale though. :no: ;D
I lived about 11 years of my life in Jax. My mother has lived there since 76. I'm thinking of possibly buying a summer home in her neighborhood. I hear that the bank foreclosures are making them VERY inexpensive.
Yes, I'm still broke, and without a job, but I understand I have an inheritance coming sometime in the next few weeks. If Anderson City Utilities doesn't steal it all, I have plans. :wink:
LO: Please don't kill GOJ; he's not such a bad guy. And you don't need the legal probs: Ralph might be outa bizzness by the time you get it all squared away. How about we just bring a camera along and take lotsa pictures of us sitting around the table with our ears all greased back, and BBQ sauce up to our eyebrows. When he sees the pictures, he'll be filled with everlasting remorse. And we COULD just slide on over to Owensboro for a little visit to the Moonlight. If me's never been there, it'll be a religious experience for her!
Quote from: Ma and Pa on May 07, 2009, 11:51:45 PM... And we COULD just slide on over to Owensboro for a little visit to the Moonlight. If me's never been there, it'll be a religious experience for her!
We could do that. But Pari's notion of a quick jaunt to Jacksonville sounds appealing too. Or wait! If that's too far, we could go to Kentucky Lake, and eat giant pork chops at Pattie's in Grand Rivers.
http://www.edge.net/~dphillip/Calvin.html
:eat:
Quote from: me on May 07, 2009, 08:36:42 PM
But I still think Ex should come up with a car since he's the one that offered it. :yes: :biggrin:
I didn't offer anything; I simply told him what the prize was. He'll have to deal with our sponsors.
If you're driving, we'll go wherever you decide, LO; Ma & I will kick in for gas. Better let me read the map, tho; that's not Ma's strong suit. :wink:
I am good at reading a map thank goodness. Just as long as I don't have to do it while the car is moving....motion sickness...bad thing..... :-\
Quote from: Exterminator on May 08, 2009, 10:59:47 AM
I didn't offer anything; I simply told him what the prize was. He'll have to deal with our sponsors.
I didn't offer anything; I simply told
her what the prize was.
She'll have to deal with our sponsors.
FIFY
Quote from: LOsborne on May 08, 2009, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 08, 2009, 10:59:47 AM
I didn't offer anything; I simply told him what the prize was. He'll have to deal with our sponsors.
I didn't offer anything; I simply told her what the prize was. She'll have to deal with our sponsors.
FIFY
Oops! Hey, you're pretty smart for a girl! :biggrin:
Quote from: Ma and Pa on May 08, 2009, 11:17:35 AM
If you're driving, we'll go wherever you decide, LO; Ma & I will kick in for gas. Better let me read the map, tho; that's not Ma's strong suit. :wink:
hey, if we are going to Jax, I don't need a map, I know the way by heart. I also know where every Sonny's and Bono's in the city are located. :wink:
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/thjump.gif)
Mac, if you plan to bounce like that in the car, you have to ride in the trunk.
Aw!!!!!!!!! Can I ride on the top or hood??
If the new car has a hitch, we might have to put her in a horse trailer! Wearin' hobbles!
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/478468.jpg)
Sorry guy's but I ran across this and since it has kind of turned into a topic of whatever thought what the heck. You do have to admit it is funny..... :biggrin:
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/cid_E308336610F84E62B807C7E44EC61C8.gif)
You crack me up!
Quote from: LOsborne on May 07, 2009, 08:35:28 PM
You're no fun, either, me.
I won the bet! If a car is not the prize, G of J should have told me what the real prize is.
G of J is a no-good-dirty-rotten-stick-up-his-butt-poorly-endowed-non-amusing welcher!
Are ya having fun?
Before ya go and hang that well-used red-feather roach-clip on the mirror of your new car, allow me to make a few observations:
Thanks for at least trying to do some research. Your source is an anti-capitalism group who feel that ALL income should belong to the Gov't. That notwithstanding, they might produce a well-reasoned support of Ex's contention.
Unfortunately, (like Ex) they do not.
From your Commie-bastard source:
Half of those on the Forbes 400 list started their economic careers by inheriting businesses or substantial wealth.So, they seem to have documentation to support a contention that 200 of the wealthiest 400 people on earth in 1997 can be said to have not "worked there way up" from poverty to wealth.
I couldn't find a source for the number of millionaires in 1997, but it doesn't matter.
In 2001, however:
"The almost 3% increase [in the number of millionaire since 2000] takes the number of HNWIs to 7.1 million people around the globe, according to the definitive report.
(HNWIs are people with financial assets of at least US$1million, excluding real estate.)"
source: http://www.us.capgemini.com/news/current_news.asp?ID=240&PRyear=2002 (http://www.us.capgemini.com/news/current_news.asp?ID=240&PRyear=2002)
So, 200 compared to 7,100,000. Do the math. Well, you can't do the math. Their own thesis is not supported by this data, and it comes nowhere close to proving Ex's contention ("Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)").
You really should read posts before commenting on them, LO.
Here are my sources and citations proving Ex to be either ignorant or a liar.
If you want to rebut, please address them with sources of your own:
Recently, PNC Wealth Management conducted a survey of people with more than $500,000 free to invest as they like, a fair definition of "wealthy," and possibly "millionaire" once you begin including home equity and other assets. Only 6% of those surveyed earned their money from inheritance alone. 69% earned their wealth mostly by trading time and effort for money, or by "working." http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2008/04/18/most-wealthy-individuals-earned-not-inherited-their-wealth/#comments (http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2008/04/18/most-wealthy-individuals-earned-not-inherited-their-wealth/#comments)
An overwhelming number of
affluent Americans earned their wealth and are more likely to feel secure
during challenging economic times compared to peers who inherited their money,
according to findings by PNC Wealth Management, a member of The PNC Financial
Services Group, Inc. (NYSE: PNC). http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS119380+10-Apr-2008+PRN20080410 (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS119380+10-Apr-2008+PRN20080410)
1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation's richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)
2. According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today's multi-millionaires cited "inheritance" as their source of wealth.
3. A study by Spectrem Group found that among today's millionaires, inherited wealth accounted for just 2% of their total sources of wealth. http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/01/14/the-decline-of-inherited-money/?mod=WSJBlog (http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/01/14/the-decline-of-inherited-money/?mod=WSJBlog)
Report findings show that in North America the largest share (32 percent) of
HNWI wealth is from income versus business ownership (26 percent) and inheritance (16
percent). http://www.capgemini.com/resources/news/world_wealth_report_finds_high_net_worth_individuals_increasingly_earn_rather_than_inherit_wealth/ (http://www.capgemini.com/resources/news/world_wealth_report_finds_high_net_worth_individuals_increasingly_earn_rather_than_inherit_wealth/)
Now, Ex's evidence offered in rebuttal to support his contention:
*
crickets*
And this question remains unanswered:
"So tell us Ex, when you made this statement, "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)", were you knowingly lying, or were you just ignorantly assuming what you wanted to believe was true?"
Ex is a poseur. I hoisted him by his own petard and proved it to the forum.
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 11, 2009, 12:20:14 PM
Are ya having fun?
Before ya go and hang that well-used red-feather roach-clip on the mirror of your new car, allow me to make a few observations:
This sounds pretty funny coming from an admitted drug abuser like yourself.
QuoteEx is a poseur. I hoisted him by his own petard and proved it to the forum.
Your picking and choosing which parts of data to use to substantiate your point is full of lots of huge holes but I see no point trying to educate some hillbilly crack-head who thinks he already has all of the answers.
Your using the upper middle class as examples of "rich" only underscores how far out of your depth you are.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 11, 2009, 12:48:08 PM
This sounds pretty funny coming from an admitted drug abuser like yourself.
Does he share? Or is everyone afraid of catching no sense of humor, from him?
QuoteYour picking and choosing which parts of data to use to substantiate your point is full of lots of huge holes but I see no point trying to educate some hillbilly crack-head who thinks he already has all of the answers.
Your using the upper middle class as examples of "rich" only underscores how far out of your depth you are.
He said "prove it." I proved it. Now he says, "but your source doesn't meet my approval." Well,
his source doesn't meet with
my approval. Now he wants to talk about sources of income. Of course the income doesn't come from the inheritance. The income comes from investing the inheritance. Y'all can't redefine the bet after you lose. Now where's my frickin' car?
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 11, 2009, 12:20:14 PMFrom your Commie-bastard source...
My source didn't receive any TARP money. Yours got nearly $8 billion.
http://kevincolby.com/2008/11/18/bailout-bio-for-pnc-financial-services-group/
So who ya gonna believe? Do your informants stay bought?
Lighten up.
How does this tie in with God?
That is right!!
God does NOT suck
LOL, Henry, bring it back on topic.
Actually, the originial topic was God Sucks!
And yes, he does.
:biggrin:
Thats your opinion, not mine. God Does Not Suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, but there's a passel of evidence to support my opinion. :wink:
An there is a passle of faith to support mine. God said it and I believe it! You cannot convince me that there is not God and I guess I can't convince you there is. So can we just agree to disagree and respect each others opinions?
Faith <> evidence. :wink:
Which God? Kali definitely sucks most of the time. Hecate ... not so much. Thor blows hot and cold. Coyote (my current favorite) can suck, but usually you're laughing too hard to mind.
Isn't this kind of like a which came first the chicken or the egg conversation? You can't have a chicken without an egg but you can't have an egg without a chicken so not only is it which one was first but how did the first one get here in the first place. I have my own ideas on that but it wouldn't go in this thread at all so I'm thinking about starting another but not sure about it at this point.
You lost me. Coyote is neither a chicken, nor an egg. He is kinda like Bugs Bunny, with super powers.
Quote from: LOsborne on May 11, 2009, 07:10:00 PM
You lost me. Coyote is neither a chicken, nor an egg. He is kinda like Bugs Bunny, with super powers.
Now if you're meanin' Wyle Coyote I can go for that. :yes:
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/Coyote-1.jpg)
Yep..... :biggrin: :yes:
Quote from: me on May 11, 2009, 07:51:57 PM
Now if you're meanin' Wyle Coyote I can go for that.
Not Wylie Coyote. The anvil always lands on his head. That
never happens to the Lord God Coyote. It's likely to happen to you though, if you don't pay him the proper reverence.
Bingo!
Locutus, one of my favorite literary quotes comes from "the Atheist" in Masters's Spoon River Anthology. He says:
"Ya know why I believe God sent his only son to suffer and die on the cross? Because it sounds just like him!
Quote from: LOsborne on May 11, 2009, 09:16:41 PM
Not Wylie Coyote. The anvil always lands on his head. That never happens to the Lord God Coyote. It's likely to happen to you though, if you don't pay him the proper reverence.
Damn...ya might know I'd pick the wrong one... :groan: :sos:
Quote from: LOsborne on May 11, 2009, 09:16:41 PM
Not Wylie Coyote. The anvil always lands on his head. That never happens to the Lord God Coyote. It's likely to happen to you though, if you don't pay him the proper reverence.
I will take my chances. :biggrin:
Quote from: LOsborne on May 11, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
Does he share? Or is everyone afraid of catching no sense of humor, from him?He said "prove it." I proved it. Now he says, "but your source doesn't meet my approval." Well, his source doesn't meet with my approval. Now he wants to talk about sources of income. Of course the income doesn't come from the inheritance. The income comes from investing the inheritance. Y'all can't redefine the bet after you lose. Now where's my frickin' car?
You have proved nothing except your ability to stumble across a strawman.
Ex's quote: "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)".
Show me anything, from ANY source that verifies this as fact.
Oh, you might want to grab your dictionary and look up the words, "overwhelming" and "majority" before you go searching.
Ex's sources that claim this is a fact: -0-
YOUR sources that claim this as a fact: -0-
I disregard your source because their own data and analysis do not support Ex's contention. The fact that they are also Commies-bastards is telling as to what conclusion they DO reach.
PNC performed the study in September and October of 2007. Are you going to tell me that they knew THEN that their would be TARP money? Can you explain HOW they would know about TARP money 18 MONTHS ago so they could fudge their study? And if, as you seem to be insinuating, the TARP money was some kind of political payoff then why do their facts support
my position and not yours and Ex's?
Care to dig up dirt on the rest of my sources?
Look, why don't you and Ex just admit it: you hate people who have worked harder and smarter than you have and now enjoy the fruits of their labor. So you make up accusations with absolutely no data to back them up, imagining things about them that you wish were facts so you can continue to let the hate and jealousy fester within you.
Oh, let me correct another lie by Ex: I have never admitted to being a drug
addict. I admit that I have taken drugs in the past, but I was never
addicted. Prove otherwise or go pour yourself a big ol' glass of STFU about it! No sense of humor, eh? Lol!
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 12, 2009, 05:09:33 PM
Look, why don't you and Ex just admit it: you hate people who have worked harder and smarter than you have and now enjoy the fruits of their labor. So you make up accusations with absolutely no data to back them up, imagining things about them that you wish were facts so you can continue to let the hate and jealousy fester within you.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa160/ozzie6014/Understand-Bill_and_Ted.jpg?t=1242171611)
One more time, cupcake.
Lighten Up!!
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 12, 2009, 05:09:33 PM
Ex's quote: "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)".
I neglected to qualify "wealth" as meaning something more than someone who can afford an extra 12-pack so that a simpleton like you could grasp the point.
QuoteShow me anything, from ANY source that verifies this as fact.
Oh, you might want to grab your dictionary and look up the words, "overwhelming" and "majority" before you go searching.
Admittedly difficult to do since the truly wealthy are pretty much off-the-radar.
QuoteI disregard your source because Rush Limbaugh doesn't acknowledge them.
Fixed this for you.
QuoteLook, why don't you and Ex just admit it: you hate people who have worked harder and smarter than you have and now enjoy the fruits of their labor. So you make up accusations with absolutely no data to back them up, imagining things about them that you wish were facts so you can continue to let the hate and jealousy fester within you.
LMAO! People like you, a drug addled sperm donor? While
I was working hard serving my country and getting an education,
you were drinking, snorting, popping and smoking yourself into oblivion. That is why
I am not only able to enjoy the fruits of my labor but don't have a chip on my shoulder about sharing those fruits with those who were unable to do so and also why people like
you will always work for people like
me.
QuoteOh, let me correct another lie by Ex: I have never admitted to being a drug addict. Prove otherwise or go pour yourself a big ol' glass of STFU about it! No sense of humor, eh? Lol!
Sure you didn't, Jacoff. (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=9329.msg304175#msg304175) Didn't they teach you about denial in rehab?
You know Ex I come from a military family, Air Force and Navy, and a couple were in Special Forces and none of them either agree with you or throw it up to people like you do. I'm talking 20 to 40yrs of service not just 4.
Quote from: me on May 13, 2009, 01:51:44 PM
You know Ex I come from a military family, Air Force and Navy, and a couple were in Special Forces and none of them either agree with you or throw it up to people like you do. I'm talking 20 to 40yrs of service not just 4.
Bullshit!
Quote from: Exterminator on May 13, 2009, 03:06:46 PM
Bullshit!
I'm glad you think so. Uncle retired 40yrs Air Force, Dad retired 15yr Air Force,(deceased), Uncle retired 20yr Air Force, Son-in-law retired 20yr Navy, daughter retired 10yr Air Force, (retired to raise family), daughter 4yrs Navy, quit to raise 2 kids, grandson currently Air Force linguists, Cousin 10yrs retired Navy medic in Nam, cousin 12yrs Air Force MIA in Korea. Shall I go on?
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on May 12, 2009, 05:09:33 PM
PNC performed the study in September and October of 2007. Are you going to tell me that they knew THEN that their would be TARP money? Can you explain HOW they would know about TARP money 18 MONTHS ago so they could fudge their study? And if, as you seem to be insinuating, the TARP money was some kind of political payoff then why do their facts support my position and not yours and Ex's?
How long did it take you to come up with that convoluted conspiracy, spooky? I'm saying they needed TARP money because they can't
count! Otherwise, their books would have been in balance. If they grossly inflated their own profitability until they had to be pulled out of the swamp, why on earth would anyone trust their numbers on anybody else's money? Sorry, sweetcheeks. I don't believe in long-range plans for political payoffs. I
do believe in arrogant stupidity. Occam's razor.
Quote from: me on May 13, 2009, 04:23:38 PM
I'm glad you think so. Uncle retired 40yrs Air Force, Dad retired 15yr Air Force,(deceased), Uncle retired 20yr Air Force, Son-in-law retired 20yr Navy, daughter retired 10yr Air Force, (retired to raise family), daughter 4yrs Navy, quit to raise 2 kids, grandson currently Air Force linguists, Cousin 10yrs retired Navy medic in Nam, cousin 12yrs Air Force MIA in Korea. Shall I go on?
And none of them ever touts his/her service? Again, bullshit!
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 07:28:17 AM
And none of them ever touts his/her service? Again, bullshit!
That is not bull shit that is fact. Whether you chose to believe it or not is irrelevant. Why would I lie about something like that? They served, they are proud they served, they feel no need to put down others for not serving because it was their choice to serve and they realize not everyone wants to or is able to for one reason or another.
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 08:48:33 AM
That is not bull shit that is fact. Whether you chose to believe it or not is irrelevant. Why would I lie about something like that? They served, they are proud they served, they feel no need to put down others for not serving because it was their choice to serve and they realize not everyone wants to or is able to for one reason or another.
You need to quit talking for other people.
You think I haven't talked to them or heard them voice their opinions about people who put others down for not having served? These are relatives who I see and talk to except for the ones who are now deceased who also expressed the same things.
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 09:28:41 AM
You think I haven't talked to them or heard them voice their opinions about people who put others down for not having served? These are relatives who I see and talk to except for the ones who are now deceased who also expressed the same things.
And I'm sure not one of them has a veteran's license plate; right? My ass.
My son is a vetern and he does not have a veterens tag. He is not one who needs to brag about his service to his country. He also never puts anyone down for not serving, he realaizes that not everyone can serve.
My family has served in the US military since the The Civil war. All who could served, all gave some and some gave all. We lost someone in all but one war since. Navy, Air Force, Army, Marines and Coast Guard it was you choice. I am deeply offended by your attitude Ex, Who are you to decide who serves and who doesn't, how can you, if you are ex military, even say what you have? I have my doubts as to if you ever served in the military. You do not reflect what I have seen over the years with military personell. You can put others down and make fun of their service if you wish. But I think you don't know what you are talking about.
You can't even spell veteran.
Perhaps none of your relatives is proud of his/her military service but most people are and you see license plates and insignia on their cars often. My own brother has a bronze star license plate.
I'm gussing there were a lot of Chapter 13's amongst your bunch (if you're even telling the truth). :razz:
No Ex:, my family just does not have anything to prove to pompass, tight ass people like you.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 09:52:36 AM
And I'm sure not one of them has a veteran's license plate; right? My ass.
As a matter of fact they don't but a Veteran's plate isn't the same as putting someone down for not serving it is simply saying that they did.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 11:36:34 AM
You can't even spell veteran.
Perhaps none of your relatives is proud of his/her military service but most people are and you see license plates and insignia on their cars often. My own brother has a bronze star license plate.
I'm gussing there were a lot of Chapter 13's amongst your bunch (if you're even telling the truth). :razz:
There are no chapter 13's and as a matter of fact they are all doing financially well. One is a jet mechanic for a large company, one helps design incubators for babies, one is completely retired because he is in his 80's but was giving flying lessons and only because he wanted to he had a pretty substantial retirement check and a substantial amount of savings built up plus a paid for house. But that is neither here or there the fact is they don't put others down for not having served and that makes them neither dumb nor poor it makes them considerate.
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:11:25 PM
There are no chapter 13's and as a matter of fact they are all doing financially well. One is a jet mechanic for a large company, one helps design incubators for babies, one is completely retired because he is in his 80's but was giving flying lessons and only because he wanted to he had a pretty substantial retirement check and a substantial amount of savings built up plus a paid for house. But that is neither here or there the fact is they don't put others down for not having served and that makes them neither dumb nor poor it makes them considerate.
A military chapter 13 is not a bankruptcy, you dunce, it is a separation for unsatisfactory performance.
Quote from: mcgonser on May 14, 2009, 11:44:50 AM
No Ex:, my family just does not have anything to prove to pompass, tight ass people like you.
* pompous (that's some education!)
So, you're bragging about your loose asses? Are they loose as in flabby or is there an incontinence problem (I'm guessing both)?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 12:18:26 PM
A military chapter 13 is not a bankruptcy, you dunce, it is a separation for unsatisfactory performance.
Now how would you
retire w/benefits after that many years with an unsatisfactory? That was just plain stupid on your part. No one had anything less than an honorable discharge.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 11:36:34 AM
You can't even spell veteran.
Perhaps none of your relatives is proud of his/her military service but most people are and you see license plates and insignia on their cars often. My own brother has a bronze star license plate.
I'm gussing there were a lot of Chapter 13's amongst your bunch (if you're even telling the truth). :razz:
You did not specify Military if you'll notice. :razz:
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:27:41 PM
Now how would you retire w/benefits after that many years with an unsatisfactory? That was just plain stupid on your part. No one had anything less than an honorable discharge.
I wasn't talking to you and how many times do I have to tell you to stay out of grown people's conversations?
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:29:30 PM
You did not specify Military if you'll notice. :razz:
Those of us with military experience knew what I meant. :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 12:31:29 PM
Those of us with military experience knew what I meant. :razz:
Thats the problem ex: I don't believe that you ever served in the military or probably any of your family either, You are a wanna be soldier. No my son or any or my family got a chpt 13???? if thats what you want to call it. My son has a good job with the post office. I don't think they let you in with a severence order. As I have read your posts I have realized that you know nothing about military life. You are a fraud!
Me: you can jump in and give your opinion any time you want. Don't let the play gi doll tell you what to do.
Quote from: mcgonser on May 14, 2009, 12:42:18 PM
Thats the problem ex: I don't believe that you ever served in the military or probably any of your family either, You are a wanna be soldier. No my son or any or my family got a chpt 13???? if thats what you want to call it. My son has a good job with the post office. I don't think they let you in with a severence order. As I have read your posts I have realized that you know nothing about military life. You are a fraud!
Me: you can jump in and give your opinion any time you want. Don't let the play gi doll tell you what to do.
And you'd be as wrong about that as you are about virtually everything else. And let's not forget that you're the one who's been exposed as a liar.
Why do I feel the urge to defend here? Want me to post a pic? For some reason...I seem to have the military pic.....but damnit, I don't have the jesus christ superstar pic.....and I used to. hmmm
Quote from: pariann on May 14, 2009, 01:37:33 PM
Why do I feel the urge to defend here? Want me to post a pic? For some reason...I seem to have the military pic.....but damnit, I don't have the jesus christ superstar pic.....and I used to. hmmm
Admit it...you just like the look of me covered in welts. :biggrin:
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
Admit it...you just like the look of me covered in welts. :biggrin:
well who wouldn't?
What I'll admit is that I liked the way you looked around 30 years ago, with or without welts. :wink:
Ouch!
What? You want me to say I like the way you look now? I'm not that forward. LOL
Quote from: pariann on May 14, 2009, 02:01:25 PM
What I'll admit is that I liked the way you looked around 30 years ago, with or without welts. :wink:
THAT one has GOT to sting!!!!
LMMFAO!!
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2mflr1e.jpg)
Looks like ole' Jeebus has his hand in the works at Kia. :rotfl:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/worklife/07/08/fortunate.town/index.html
Quote from: Locutus on July 11, 2009, 06:44:20 PM
LMMFAO!!
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2mflr1e.jpg)
Looks like ole' Jeebus has his hand in the works at Kia. :rotfl:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/worklife/07/08/fortunate.town/index.html
I guess the moonies get their payoff, after all...
Quote from: dan foster on July 11, 2009, 09:46:37 PM
I guess the moonies get their payoff, after all...
:biggrin:
Gov. Sanford invokes Gawd while trying to stay in office.
In the opinion, Sanford vows to work with lawmakers he's long fought and cites Scripture and his faith in God — just as he's done in his few public appearances since admitting the affair.
"It's in the spirit of making good from bad that I am committing to you and the larger family of South Carolinians to use this experience to both trust God in his larger work of changing me, and from my end, to work to becoming a better and more effective leader," he wrote.
Too bad ole' Gawd couldn't have prevented the whole mess to begin with. :rolleyes:
This is the kind of utter nonsense that often comes from Xtians that I'll never, ever, understand. This supposed Xtian couldn't keep his weenie in his pants while married, but when he's exposed, he invokes Gawd in a piteous attempt to save face. Any bets that had he not been exposed, ole' Gawd would have been nowhere on the brain, and he'd still be doin' the Argentinian mistress? Disgusting!
Quote from: Locutus on July 19, 2009, 02:36:07 PM
Gov. Sanford invokes Gawd while trying to stay in office.
In the opinion, Sanford vows to work with lawmakers he's long fought and cites Scripture and his faith in God — just as he's done in his few public appearances since admitting the affair.
"It's in the spirit of making good from bad that I am committing to you and the larger family of South Carolinians to use this experience to both trust God in his larger work of changing me, and from my end, to work to becoming a better and more effective leader," he wrote.
Too bad ole' Gawd couldn't have prevented the whole mess to begin with. :rolleyes:
This is the kind of utter nonsense that often comes from Xtians that I'll never, ever, understand. This supposed Xtian couldn't keep his weenie in his pants while married, but when he's exposed, he invokes Gawd in a piteous attempt to save face. Any bets that had he not been exposed, ole' Gawd would have been nowhere on the brain, and he'd still be doin' the Argentinian mistress? Disgusting!
His cult buddies (The Family) are no doubt instructing him every step of the way. These assclowns all believed they are ordained by god to rule the US and, by god, they will do whatever they want because god is on their side.
wow , you guys really get out there . I was raised on Army bases with my 4 brothers. They all served in the military. My husband served , none of us have vet plates does that make us bad ppl? we do all fly flags every day and pray to protect our country does that make us bad ppl?
Quote from: jimdy on July 20, 2009, 02:52:55 PM
wow , you guys really get out there . I was raised on Army bases with my 4 brothers. They all served in the military. My husband served , none of us have vet plates does that make us bad ppl? we do all fly flags every day and pray to protect our country does that make us bad ppl?
Hello jimdy!!...
I will go out there and say, it makes YOU one of the good guys......and a dying breed...unfortunatly...
Quote from: jimdy on July 20, 2009, 02:52:55 PM
wow , you guys really get out there . I was raised on Army bases with my 4 brothers. They all served in the military. My husband served , none of us have vet plates does that make us bad ppl? we do all fly flags every day and pray to protect our country does that make us bad ppl?
Bad people? No. A bit misguided? Yes. Nothing fails like prayer.
If prayer makes a person feel better, why do you care? Chances are pretty good that the people who rely on prayer to make everything better would most likely be the same ones who do nothing and wait on someone else to fix the problems if they weren't praying. So it's not hurting you...and it's not hurting them. Let them pray.
Yeah. It's like wearing lucky socks. Or baptizing infants.
Might not help, but it certainly can't hurt.
Prayer without faith is like a boat without oars.....
I don't need no stinkin' oars. I have a sail.
Quote from: LOsborne on July 22, 2009, 11:35:47 PM
I don't need no stinkin' oars. I have a sail.
:biggrin:
Quote from: LOsborne on July 22, 2009, 11:35:47 PM
I don't need no stinkin' oars. I have a sail.
What happens when there is no breeze?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 22, 2009, 10:04:30 PM
Prayer without faith is like a boat without oars.....
Prayer sucks and so does Gawd. :wink:
Actually, prayer doesn't work because Gawd sucks. :yes:
I pray that doesnt come back to bite you in the back side ,when your time comes.Maybe I won't ,maybe it should .lol
Quote from: pariann on July 23, 2009, 01:05:46 AM
What happens when there is no breeze?
Oh c'mon, there's always some pompous windbag around. And if it should happen that they are all silent for a change, I'll just wear my lucky socks.
Quote from: Locutus on July 23, 2009, 01:14:25 AM
Actually, prayer doesn't work because Gawd sucks. :yes:
you are just doing it wrong.... ;) :razz:
God always answers prayer ,he just doesnt always say yes
:angel:
Quote from: jimdy on July 23, 2009, 09:34:41 AM
God always answers prayer ,he just doesnt always say yes
:angel:
Well if he's going to do what he wants anyway, what's the point in praying in the first place?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 23, 2009, 10:03:19 AM
Well if he's going to do what he wants anyway, what's the point in praying in the first place?
Bingo Ex! They just don't get it. :no:
Maybe it's kind of like the reason some people nag. They do it so other people will do what the naggers are asking -- just to get them to shut up!
A good friend of mine was in a terrible car accident on Wednesday evening. She broke her neck, but fortunately isn't paralyzed. She's now in a halo which she will have to wear for 3-4 months.
If the halo works, she should come out of this relatively unscathed. If it doesn't, she'll have to have it fused via surgery after which she will not be able to turn her head for the rest of her life.
She posted this on her Facebook page:
Quote
broke my neck...thankful I'm not paralyzed
One of her other friends then replied in this manner:
Quote
y heart sank when i first heard...I had no info just a broken neck...God is good...
Really, God is good? Where the hell was he in preventing this accident in the first place???
Another friend replied:
Quote
Broken Neck+Not Paralyzed=A touch from GOD!!! Like Kate said...even when He is silent, He is still there and He is still God...
Unfuggin' believable! Although these people are well intentioned, why is ole' Gawd getting all of the credit for no paralysis, however no one is asking of him why he let her get into the accident in the first place??? Why can't the Xtians see how idiotic this appears to rational thinking people?
Yeah, I'll say it again. God sucks!!
Quote from: Locutus on July 24, 2009, 05:47:24 PM
...why is ole' Gawd getting all of the credit for no paralysis, however no one is asking of him why he let her get into the accident in the first place???
That's exactly what I tell the various gods who show up for my bi-weekly prayer breakfast: Don't expect credit for the good stuff if you won't accept blame for the bad stuff. They mostly don't listen. They just come for the food.
:biggrin:
It would make more sense if you believed what I do. But for some reason....so many don't want to believe it. I can't go into it here. LO has her 'group' watching me. They are becoming suspicious of my intentions on planet earth here lately. :spooked:
Quote from: pariann on July 24, 2009, 06:36:25 PM
LO has her 'group' watching me. They are becoming suspicious of my intentions on planet earth here lately. :spooked:
It's not
my group, pari. I'm just leader of the RMMT. We're mostly support personnel.
Quote from: pariann on July 24, 2009, 06:36:25 PM
It would make more sense if you believed what I do. But for some reason....so many don't want to believe it. I can't go into it here. LO has her 'group' watching me. They are becoming suspicious of my intentions on planet earth here lately. :spooked:
That sounds like a cop out to me. If indeed LO has a "group" it's because her remarks are well thought out, show logic, and intelligence. You have your believe, I have mine, and LO has hers. Why must we continuously try to convince folks that "I'm right and you are wrong?"
Huh? It's banter, try to keep up with LO's posts. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on July 24, 2009, 05:47:24 PM
Really, God is good? Where the hell was he in preventing this accident in the first place???
Broken Neck+Not Paralyzed=A touch from GOD!!! Like Kate said...even when He is silent, He is still there and He is still God...
Unfuggin' believable! Although these people are well intentioned, why is ole' Gawd getting all of the credit for no paralysis, however no one is asking of him why he let her get into the accident in the first place??? Why can't the Xtians see how idiotic this appears to rational thinking people?
It's pretty simple, really; the devil broke her neck, but god kept her from being paralyzed. Obviously, the devil was trying to make a statement in her life (teach god a lesson), but god protected her, just enough, that she didn't become paralyzed. Why do we have to blame god for the bad stuff?
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/fukenheh.JPG)
Quote from: dan foster on July 25, 2009, 04:08:26 PM
It's pretty simple, really; the devil broke her neck, but god kept her from being paralyzed. Obviously, the devil was trying to make a statement in her life (teach god a lesson), but god protected her, just enough, that she didn't become paralyzed. Why do we have to blame god for the bad stuff?
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/fukenheh.JPG)
I do believe you may have hit the nail on the head. The ole' debbil did the dastardly deed. :mad: And ole' Gawd decided just to stop the paralysis and not prevent the ole' debbil from causing the accident to begin with.
BTW, I love that picture of Jeebus doing the Fukeneh! :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on July 25, 2009, 05:08:33 PM
I do believe you may have hit the nail on the head. The ole' debbil did the dastardly deed. :mad: And ole' Gawd decided just to stop the paralysis and not prevent the ole' debbil from causing the accident to begin with.
BTW, I love that picture of Jeebus doing the Fukeneh! :biggrin:
My pleasure on the pic. Yeah, the creator of the universe had to have been pretty goddamned bored to have dreamed up the debbil to fuk with people so "HE" could step in and save them with his holier than thou, super-hero fetish. HeyZeus (no latino was harmed in the writing of this word) never flew, but he sure showed those romans.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 23, 2009, 10:03:19 AM
Well if he's going to do what he wants anyway, what's the point in praying in the first place?
EX, I suspect it is for the same reason you as a child asked you parents for something, but you know the answer will be 'no'. I'm also curious how do you know God is a He?
Quote from: pariann on July 25, 2009, 02:10:43 PM
Huh? It's banter, try to keep up with LO's posts. :wink:
Huh?
Quote from: Santiago on July 25, 2009, 10:58:34 PM
EX, I suspect it is for the same reason you as a child asked you parents for something, but you know the answer will be 'no'. I'm also curious how do you know God is a He?
I agree. I use "he" in referring to "him" as it is the word of god that tells us that "he" is the "heavenly father", (most Americans assume the position in a good old judaeo-christian tradition) and they KNOW their god, the father, is the one that is saying no to their childish wishes and fears (except catholics; they have a "heavenly mommy", too). What delusion do you adhere to that would have you question "his" gender?
Quote from: Santiago on July 25, 2009, 11:04:09 PM
Huh?
Yep, that's my point. You accused me of copping out. On what? LO replied to my post exactly in the manner I expected her too, because SHE understood what I was saying. You didn't. If you keep up with everything that LO posts, you would have understood what I meant by 'banter'.
Oh lighten up. Santi has been keeping up with everything I say for years, and he understands me better than most. Keep in mind that tone of voice doesn't translate into print, and be a little less quick to take offense. All of you.
P.S. Just FYI, on occasion, my group has been known as "Santi's gang."
I guess I just don't appreciate being told I'm copping out when I'm kidding around.
I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings. True I have not read all 78 pages of this thread. It is also true that my words were ...' that sounds like a cop out to me.' So I gave my impression without making a direct accusation. I'm kinda new here and don't want to make enemies YET!
Quote from: dan foster on July 26, 2009, 12:00:11 AM
I agree. I use "he" in referring to "him" as it is the word of god that tells us that "he" is the "heavenly father", (most Americans assume the position in a good old judaeo-christian tradition) and they KNOW their god, the father, is the one that is saying no to their childish wishes and fears (except catholics; they have a "heavenly mommy", too). What delusion do you adhere to that would have you question "his" gender?
Wow! First I'm not paying attention and now I'm delusional. I better quit while I've still got my head. But I guess my answer to your question is curiousity. I don't think of God in terms of gender just as I don't think angels are by necessity female. I don't recall ever seeing angels depicted in Christmas programs as being of the male gender.
hey Santi. I don't play well with others either (Im told) so I don't post here very much.But man its good to see the names i know from time to time. :smitten:
Quote from: Santiago on July 26, 2009, 02:54:31 PM
I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings. True I have not read all 78 pages of this thread. It is also true that my words were ...' that sounds like a cop out to me.' So I gave my impression without making a direct accusation. I'm kinda new here and don't want to make enemies YET!
Oh you haven't made an enemy. I just couldn't believe that you took me seriously.
Quote from: Santiago on July 26, 2009, 03:02:38 PM
Wow! First I'm not paying attention and now I'm delusional. I better quit while I've still got my head. But I guess my answer to your question is curiousity. I don't think of God in terms of gender just as I don't think angels are by necessity female. I don't recall ever seeing angels depicted in Christmas programs as being of the male gender.
Dan is like that with everyone. Don't mind him. I have seen male angels in the church Christmas program where my girls go to church. I've even seen shepherd's that were girls!! :eek:
Quote from: jimdy on July 26, 2009, 03:23:21 PM
hey Santi. I don't play well with others either (Im told) so I don't post here very much.But man its good to see the names i know from time to time. :smitten:
Hey jimdy, long time; no see. I don't remember you as having problems gittin' along. Well, maybe a couple that most people tried to ignore. It seems to me it's never a good idea to get into a religious discussion. Nobody ever changes anyone's mind.
Pariann, I know there are male angels. I have one that has saved me from many mistakes, even tragedy. He appears in my house frequently as just a fleeting moving, shadow.
How do you know it's your friend?
Oh sometimes, you just know. The stories I could tell. :wink:
Quote from: Santiago on July 26, 2009, 03:02:38 PM
Wow! First I'm not paying attention and now I'm delusional. I better quit while I've still got my head. But I guess my answer to your question is curiousity. I don't think of God in terms of gender just as I don't think angels are by necessity female. I don't recall ever seeing angels depicted in Christmas programs as being of the male gender.
If you believe in angels, then you ARE delusional. Sorry.
Quote from: pariann on July 26, 2009, 06:24:14 PM
Dan is like that with everyone.
Thanks. I'm beginning to see the light.
Quote from: Locutus on July 26, 2009, 08:34:56 PM
How do you know it's your friend?
Process of elimination. Who but a friend would appear ghostlike at my house?
Quote from: Santiago on July 26, 2009, 09:40:20 PM
Process of elimination. Who but a friend would appear ghostlike at my house?
A peeping tom?
And I've worried about that. It's bad enough when you think they might be peeping in your windows....but to have them in the same room with you....and you can't even see them? Now if they MAKE a peep, I'll know they are there.
peep!.... ;) :yes:
I already know about you. LOL!!!
From another venue:
Quote
Basically God looks like us because we were created in his own image. What they don't teach you in school is that the big bang is a theory, evolution is a theory, a theory that even Darwin himself admitted was flawed. If you do the research, you will see that the fossil evidence strongly supports a world wide flood and a sudden appearance of different species rather than a slow evolution. The reason that we go to space and explore the planet is bacause God did not give us complete knowledge of his creation. He wanted us to explore and learn and grow, can you imagine how unbearable life would be if there was nothing more to learn? Take some time, do some research, open your heart and your mind and find out why we're really here, you'll be glad you did.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
What an idiot!
Quote
Today God saved the lives of my 11 year old Nephew and me. We were kayaking with two of my Brothers and a Family friend when a we hit a partially submerged tree. Me and my Nephew were in a two-man kayak. We flipped and were carried under the water by the current. All I could do was to pray we wouldn't get caught underwater on a limb or something else. I got spat out about 20 feet downstream and yelled is everybody o.k.? My Nephew who was wearing a life jacket was nowhere to be seen. He was trapped underwater and we couldn't find him. Thank God he was under the kayak and could breathe. We got to him in what seemed like an eternity. Jesus was watching over us today and I am reanalyzing my life. It was a horrible experience that turned out o.k. I will be in church the next time the doors open. Thank you God for sparing my life.
Once more ole' Gawd gets the credit, but shares none of the blame for this accident happening in the first place. Also, the church comment begs the question as to whether this person was previously a church goer, or is going to start up again because she thinks Jeezus saved her arse on the river.
Quote from: Locutus on July 27, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
Once more ole' Gawd gets the credit, but shares none of the blame for this accident happening in the first place. Also, the church comment begs the question as to whether this person was previously a church goer, or is going to start up again because she thinks Jeezus saved her arse on the river.
Yeah, I read s tory this morning about how Hurricane Ike had knocked down this family's fence so they took their dogs to a boarding kennel and somehow they got away from there and were lost. One of the dogs was found shortly thereafter but the other was missing for 10 months until it was found. The woman said she was crying and thanking the lord. So, the lord isn't responsible for the hurricane or for destroying their fence or for letting the dogs escape from the kennel or for leaving one of them to fend for herself for 10 months but was responsible for the pooch finally being found? WTF?
Why do you guys who don't believe in God care? I just don't get it. If you don't believe in something, why expend all this energy to knock it around?
Quote from: pariann on July 27, 2009, 04:42:45 PM
Why do you guys who don't believe in God care? I just don't get it. If you don't believe in something, why expend all this energy to knock it around?
GREAT question Pari..... :yes:
Here is my take on why God does NOT suck.... :no:...God is the creator of the universe and all that is in it, He is in control of EVERYTHING....period... :preach:.... Any thing He chooses to do to any part of His creation is His sovereign right...:preach:...God is accountable no one...:preach:....He reports to nobody. He does not owe any explanation for anything He says or does....He is the Almighty....the Alpha and the Omega......:preach:....
I do not expect or even try to understand His purpose or why we have our trials and tribulations..... But for me, I believe that that He loves us too much to harm our eternal being.... And he has provided a way to to prevent that harm....and pretty simple way... :yes:....and that He is far more concerned with our welfare than we are.
God's choices are always right.... :yes:...He is able to do ANYTHING beyond that which our minds can comprehend...and I also believe that Nothing in His universe happens by chance or accident......for every effect there is a cause......God "worketh all things after the counsel of His own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:11-12). Yep, that's MY thoughts on this in a nutshell... :yes:......drop a few cents into the collection plate on your way out... ;)
Quote from: pariann on July 27, 2009, 04:42:45 PM
Why do you guys who don't believe in God care? I just don't get it. If you don't believe in something, why expend all this energy to knock it around?
Because people like those who we've cited vote, and vote largely on misguided beliefs in supernatural things that simply don't exist. Religion, and its followers, have been and continue to be detriments to the progress of the human race. We need a lot less Gawd and a lot more rational thought and critical thinking by the masses.
Case in point is HH's post above.
and yet you are the not so silent minority.what does that tell me? that you are the idiot you keep calling others
You're actually putting forth the position that critical thinking and scientific based thoughts and beliefs makes me an idiot, and people (like I'm assuming you are) who believe in a supernatural being without one shred of evidence to support it are intelligent??
LMAO!!
:rotfl:
Pari, you starting to see where I'm coming from? ;D
:laugh:
Quote from: Locutus on July 27, 2009, 05:45:48 PM
Pari, you starting to see where I'm coming from? ;D
I understand your belief that God does not exist. But does that mean that just because someone believes, they do not possess the ability to use critical thinking or be logical. I'm almost positive that there are scientists out there proving all you believe in, in contradiction to their own personal belief. My question is....do YOU really think that all this bashing is really going to change the mind of a believer? I don't think it is, so it's really just a lot of wasted 'breath'. Just like if I started posting all the things I believe to be a fact for me, there would be half a continent trying to convince me I'm wrong, but my own experiences contradict what people try to tell me. And so I'll not ever be able to believe as they do. I will just tell them they are entitled to their belief and their thoughts on the subject, and I'd prefer to just not discuss it any longer. But it has no bearing on MOST of the logic that I use. My belief's don't always steer my reality.
So you see why I ask the question?
Quote from: pariann on July 27, 2009, 09:12:44 AM
And I've worried about that. It's bad enough when you think they might be peeping in your windows....but to have them in the same room with you....and you can't even see them? Now if they MAKE a peep, I'll know they are there.
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/watching_jesus.jpg)
Quote from: pariann on July 27, 2009, 06:17:09 PM
I understand your belief that God does not exist. But does that mean that just because someone believes, they do not possess the ability to use critical thinking or be logical. I'm almost positive that there are scientists out there proving all you believe in, in contradiction to their own personal belief. My question is....do YOU really think that all this bashing is really going to change the mind of a believer? I don't think it is, so it's really just a lot of wasted 'breath'. Just like if I started posting all the things I believe to be a fact for me, there would be half a continent trying to convince me I'm wrong, but my own experiences contradict what people try to tell me. And so I'll not ever be able to believe as they do. I will just tell them they are entitled to their belief and their thoughts on the subject, and I'd prefer to just not discuss it any longer. But it has no bearing on MOST of the logic that I use. My belief's don't always steer my reality.
So you see why I ask the question?
All delusional thought deserves to be challenged; If for nothing more than the total dishonesty of it. Why should the craziness of religion get a pass? It certainly doesn't deserve all the social support (tax breaks, etc) or leniency where one just has to say "I gave my heart to jesus" and get a free get-out-of-jail card, or overlook the charlatans that are sucking in money from those who can least afford it (and don't have the education to know why they shouldn't give), etc, etc. Religion is a leech on society and the easily duped.
There is a genetic predisposition, and a hold over from our ancestry, that compels humans to believe in the supernatural. The weak of mind really believe as they have nothing in their own intellect to believe in. However, some of us have moved on and are just trying to help the rest of you evolve :smile:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 27, 2009, 05:00:40 PM
GREAT question Pari..... :yes:
Here is my take on why God does NOT suck.... :no:...God is the creator of the universe and all that is in it, He is in control of EVERYTHING....period... :preach:.... Any thing He chooses to do to any part of His creation is His sovereign right...:preach:...God is accountable no one...:preach:....He reports to nobody. He does not owe any explanation for anything He says or does....He is the Almighty....the Alpha and the Omega......:preach:....
I do not expect or even try to understand His purpose or why we have our trials and tribulations..... But for me, I believe that that He loves us too much to harm our eternal being.... And he has provided a way to to prevent that harm....and pretty simple way... :yes:....and that He is far more concerned with our welfare than we are.
God's choices are always right.... :yes:...He is able to do ANYTHING beyond that which our minds can comprehend...and I also believe that Nothing in His universe happens by chance or accident......for every effect there is a cause......God "worketh all things after the counsel of His own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:11-12). Yep, that's MY thoughts on this in a nutshell... :yes:......drop a few cents into the collection plate on your way out... ;)
You see, this is the problem with the delusion; humans can't do anything, god does it all, and if I stay stupid enough, he will just take care of me....
The second thing is the whole reason behind "his" plan; we stay stupid, ask god for everything, and as long as he is praised by humans, he is happy. We make nice pets. The creator of the universe needs an everlasting supply of "hugs"? You have to be shitting me. This delusion has been honed for centuries into a real mind fuk, and why "his" followers almost never ask the most basic, simplest questions, like; why? They never really stop and ask; why did the creator of the universe need so many human sacrifices and adoration for it?
Quote from: pariann on July 27, 2009, 06:17:09 PM
I understand your belief that God does not exist. But does that mean that just because someone believes, they do not possess the ability to use critical thinking or be logical.
Yes, that's exactly what it means.
QuoteMy question is....do YOU really think that all this bashing is really going to change the mind of a believer? I don't think it is, so it's really just a lot of wasted 'breath'.
We don't stop counseling schizophrenics just because we know they'll still be schizophrenics.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 28, 2009, 07:08:37 AM
Yes, that's exactly what it means.
We don't stop counseling schizophrenics just because we know they'll still be schizophrenics.
I think you are wrong.
How do you know that schizophrenics continue to be 'counseled'? I don't think writing a prescription once every month, or two, constitutes being counseled.
Talking til you are blue in the face only leaves you with a blue face, accomplishes nothing.
Quote from: dan foster on July 27, 2009, 07:26:48 PM
You see, this is the problem with the delusion; humans can't do anything, god does it all, and if I stay stupid enough, he will just take care of me....
the way I look at it, if you stay stupid enough, you will never learn what God has in store for all of us....God gave us a brain to use, and the ability to make our own decisions......on everything......He also gave us a Book on how to do things and how NOT to do things....a set of instructions on how we SHOULD live.....but we can and do live by whatever means we choose....I personally, am THANKFUL to God, that He gave me a path to take....He gave you the same path IF you choose to take it.....
and I often ask..WHY?....I have spent a great deal of time reading and discussing the ... WHY's....sometimes, I come up with reasonable answers...and sometimes I don't....but, the bottom line for me is.....it really don't make a hill of beans IF I know why or why not to several issues......I don't ALWAYS tell my kids WHY they have to do something, other than just because I said so....they don't always know WHY or need to know WHY I want them to do a particular thing, because I have MY reasons for them to something.
my opinion on why there was so many sacrifices in the old test, was for us to understand what it means to give something important for unselfish reasons....to truly understand what a 'sacrifice' IS....to GIVE a material object and receive something that you may not even be able to see...something spiritual.
Believing and having faith & hope, in things that have NOT been proven by scientist..does not mean you do not have the ability to use critical thinking or be logical. The Bible is filled full of extremely valuable lessons and rules on how to live. Have you ever read through proverbs?....it is loaded with wisdom on how to live life.
It is easy to pick passages from the Bible and turn them into ridicules meanings......you have got to take the WHOLE book and analyze it.....not just take words out of content.....the more I read it, the more it makes sense....AMAZING sense.
THIS is just my take on it......Dan, EX, and a few others on here, just LOVE to BASH it....to me it only shows your ignorance on something you refuse to open your mind to....but that is YOUR choice, just the way God intended it to be.
Quote from: Bo D on July 28, 2009, 09:15:27 AM
I don't agree.
I can see why you wouldn't agree, because I perhaps know a bit more about your beliefs that others may know. However, the problem is that you and those like you who are both spiritual and possess an interest in the sciences are the exception rather than the norm. I think that Ex's assessment is true most of the time.
Quote from: pariann on July 28, 2009, 09:09:28 AM
Talking til you are blue in the face only leaves you with a blue face, accomplishes nothing.
But is sure helps the post counts. :razz: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on July 28, 2009, 02:00:03 PM
I can see why you wouldn't agree, because I perhaps know a bit more about your beliefs that others may know. However, the problem is that you and those like you who are both spiritual and possess an interest in the sciences are the exception rather than the norm. I think that Ex's assessment is true most of the time.
Maybe so. I just will always question blanket statements like that.
Me too.
Anybody ever heard: God helps those who help themselves?
Quote from: Anne on July 28, 2009, 05:07:57 PM
Anybody ever heard: God helps those who help themselves?
I have. I've also found that when I needed help, the only one around to help me was me. Gawd was nowhere to be found, even long ago when I was actually looking for him. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on July 28, 2009, 05:30:31 PM
I have. I've also found that when I needed help, the only one around to help me was me. Gawd was nowhere to be found, even long ago when I was actually looking for him. :wink:
No doubt. Had a flat tire, pulled over, got the tools and the spare out...I was helping myself but God never showed up.
"He" kept you from getting hit by oncoming traffic. :wink:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 28, 2009, 10:17:43 AM
the way I look at it, if you stay stupid enough, you will never learn what God has in store for all of us....God gave us a brain to use, and the ability to make our own decisions......on everything......He also gave us a Book on how to do things and how NOT to do things....a set of instructions on how we SHOULD live.....but we can and do live by whatever means we choose....I personally, am THANKFUL to God, that He gave me a path to take....He gave you the same path IF you choose to take it.....
and I often ask..WHY?....I have spent a great deal of time reading and discussing the ... WHY's....sometimes, I come up with reasonable answers...and sometimes I don't....but, the bottom line for me is.....it really don't make a hill of beans IF I know why or why not to several issues......I don't ALWAYS tell my kids WHY they have to do something, other than just because I said so....they don't always know WHY or need to know WHY I want them to do a particular thing, because I have MY reasons for them to something.
my opinion on why there was so many sacrifices in the old test, was for us to understand what it means to give something important for unselfish reasons....to truly understand what a 'sacrifice' IS....to GIVE a material object and receive something that you may not even be able to see...something spiritual.
Believing and having faith & hope, in things that have NOT been proven by scientist..does not mean you do not have the ability to use critical thinking or be logical. The Bible is filled full of extremely valuable lessons and rules on how to live. Have you ever read through proverbs?....it is loaded with wisdom on how to live life.
It is easy to pick passages from the Bible and turn them into ridicules meanings......you have got to take the WHOLE book and analyze it.....not just take words out of content.....the more I read it, the more it makes sense....AMAZING sense.
THIS is just my take on it......Dan, EX, and a few others on here, just LOVE to BASH it....to me it only shows your ignorance on something you refuse to open your mind to....but that is YOUR choice, just the way God intended it to be.
I realize you will never accept that those of us who studied (and I mean really studied vice your spoonfed version) "the faith" to its LOGICAL conclusion based on the brains WE DO possess find it to be vile, tragic and MINDLESS. It is sad that you need to believe and that you are the perfect example of the delusion. And it is OK, hank. You can live the lie all you want, but you will just have to accept that those of us who know better won't give you the pass you are looking for and no matter what you think, ANY questioning of your faith is met by the delusion fighting it as bashing or your little (and I really do mean little no matter how extensive you think the mind game is) universe will crumble before your eyes.
By the way, my favorite life lesson from the good book;
Song of Solomon 2:3
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.
Those catholic girls know how to treat a man. A real lesson in life! Every young man should be so lucky. So now, you scurry off and see what interpretation you need to keep the delusion alive. Your life lessons are really about who interprets them for you, isn't it?
Dan, I know better that wasting MY time on anything you post, so I won't. Other than to say, I am thankfull that I live in a country that has given me the freedom from people like you.....and that I have great pride and joy with that freedom. I expect NO free pass nor will I give one either....YOU will HAVE to accept those of US, who freely, accept the Word of God....and I will ALWAYS stand behind MY choice and NEVER, EVER compromise myself or allow your fruitless efforts to even remotely TRY to persuade your delusional conclusions on me or my family.
btw, if THAT is your favorite lesson from the "good book".....then I have proved my point.
and with THAT said, If your life is fulfilled with scientist (which are the one's YOU depend on to interpret YOUR beliefs), then God-Bless ya, and more power to you!... ;) :)
I am pretty sure that was a love letter written to a young village girl by the king, where he expressed his love for her.
Some believe it is God's song of love for Israel, and some think it is simply a beautiful poem a man wrote to his beloved.
Would be interested in seeing if you have the gumption to actually look up some of the commentaries.
Quote from: Elaine on July 29, 2009, 12:12:47 PM
I am pretty sure that was a love letter written to a young village girl by the king, where he expressed his love for her.
Some believe it is God's song of love for Israel, and some think it is simply a beautiful poem a man wrote to his beloved.
Would be interested in seeing if you have the gumption to actually look up some of the commentaries.
You think the author is a man, talking about another man? Ewww, not that there is anything wrong with that :biggrin:
OR, worse, you think it is a man talking about an underage girl, as in:
Numbers 31 (King James Version)
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
So, it is OK to murder little boys and to rape little girls, by the word of the bible, but oral sex is just beyond the pale? Isn't that just how you guys follow this crap; pick and choose what you want, but ignore the "other" stuff? Although, you turned the Song of Solomon into a gay sexual act. Not sure how you came to that interpretation and I don't need to look up or read anyone else's commentary. Yours is goofier than most. Why don't you provide the commentary from others that interprets it differently? I don't think your interpretation is quite on the mark.
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Medium.gif)(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Medium.gif)(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Medium.gif)
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/fukenheh.JPG)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2009, 08:15:55 AM
Dan, I know better that wasting MY time on anything you post, so I won't. Other than to say, I am thankfull that I live in a country that has given me the freedom from people like you.....and that I have great pride and joy with that freedom. I expect NO free pass nor will I give one either....YOU will HAVE to accept those of US, who freely, accept the Word of God....and I will ALWAYS stand behind MY choice and NEVER, EVER compromise myself or allow your fruitless efforts to even remotely TRY to persuade your delusional conclusions on me or my family.
btw, if THAT is your favorite lesson from the "good book".....then I have proved my point.
and with THAT said, If your life is fulfilled with scientist (which are the one's YOU depend on to interpret YOUR beliefs), then God-Bless ya, and more power to you!... ;) :)
Nope, I study the evidence of scientific facts (real, not imaginary; physical, not metaphysical) and draw my own conclusions based on my study of science. YOU, study the words of others as that is the ONLY evidence you have for anything in your belief system; the words of others. I don't take the word of anyone else for ANYTHING as people can be wrong about any, and everything! That's all you have.
Quote from: dan foster on July 29, 2009, 09:47:18 PM
I don't take the word of anyone else for ANYTHING as people can be wrong about any, and everything!
Including yourself.... ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 29, 2009, 10:13:20 PM
Including yourself.... ;)
I can be wrong, too. Never excluded myself from that. However, I don't lie to myself, either.
Only humankind would waste so much time and energy, and allow every act of war in recorded history, to be initiated by something it cannot prove exists anywhere except within the depths of the minds of those who would be deluded by it; religion. Killing humankind since it was created.
Quote from: dan foster on July 29, 2009, 11:10:50 PM
I can be wrong, too. Never excluded myself from that. However, I don't lie to myself, either.
My personal experiences with God may not be able to proved scientifically.......but it does NOT mean they are lies by any way, shape or form.....The Bible may have been 'written' by men, (and I say 'written') but it's content and messages has been ROCK solid in answering many, many life situations that have been thrown at me....there have been things that have happened to me, that have NOT been....'coincidence' or 'just happened' by chance....all this happened, once I began to put God first in my life...His word has never come back void...The Holy Spirit, that you have 'heard' about, has provided me with a sense of comfort that cannot be imagined or manufactured....I have been on both sides of the fences on this more than once....there was a period of time, where I began to have doubts IF what I was experiencing was real or not.........I drifted away from God, and my life was a disaster and out of control.......THEN, I recommitted my Life to putting God first, and trusting in the Holy Spirit, allowed my heart to follow, what God's plan IS for me...again, MORE life experiencing incidents happened to me, that confirmed, (to me) that He was truly working in my life...there is NO magic formula or scientific equation to confirm it.....but it was/is, as real as the clouds in the sky....
So, Dan, with THAT said, I have MY reasons for believing in the quotes from many of our forefathers, who revered God and deemed Him as significant in building this country.....and I know, that I, or no one can force this TRUST and way of life on anyone....and do not even want to try to....but I will not simply back down from what I KNOW is the truth either....despite what science teaches YOU.......the bottom line is, we will ALL know the TRUTH someday.....and what I have to support MY beliefs, is MORE than enough for me to satisfy my soul.
Quote from: Palehorse on July 30, 2009, 08:15:42 AM
Only humankind would waste so much time and energy, and allow every act of war in recorded history, to be initiated by something it cannot prove exists anywhere except within the depths of the minds of those who would be deluded by it; religion. Killing humankind since it was created.
and I say (my opinion) that is Satan, a fallen angel of God, has created the delusions that have used God as the means of excuses of war........has allowed humankind all sorts of reasons to kill.....and that has included Christian followers....We ALL are sinners and capable of anything.....in my view, Satan's job was to distract humans from following God's word....and to fall short of the glory of God....just my opinion.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2009, 08:35:58 AM
My personal experiences with God may not be able to proved scientifically.......but it does NOT mean they are lies by any way, shape or form...
No, they're delusions.
QuoteThe Bible may have been 'written' by men, (and I say 'written') but it's content and messages has been ROCK solid in answering many, many life situations that have been thrown at me...
Too bad it didn't have a section on basic verb conjugation.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2009, 08:43:09 AM
and I say (my opinion) that is Satan, a fallen angel of God, has created the delusions that have used God as the means of excuses of war...
LMAO...satan...are you for real?
Quote...has allowed humankind all sorts of reasons to kill...
Like the global war on "terrorism"?
Quote..and that has included Christian followers....We ALL are sinners and capable of anything.....in my view, Satan's job was to distract humans from following God's word....and to fall short of the glory of God....just my opinion.
If God is all powerful, why does he allow Satan to exist? It is patently ridiculous.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2009, 10:13:23 AM
If God is all powerful, why does he allow Satan to exist?
Refer to the title of the thread for your answer. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on July 30, 2009, 10:35:38 AM
Refer to the title of the thread for your answer. :yes: :biggrin:
Ah, yes...the suckage factor.
my answer was to Dan.......and I will not waste anymore time on this, because it is pointless in the firt place.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2009, 10:37:30 AM
Ah, yes...the suckage factor.
Yes, he doth sucketh; working "his" magic in the minds of people that see demons and devils all over the earth.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2009, 11:28:20 AM
my answer was to Dan.......and I will not waste anymore time on this, because it is pointless in the firt place.
Correct; talking about something that doesn't exist is pointless.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2009, 11:28:20 AM
my answer was to Dan.......and I will not waste anymore time on this, because it is pointless in the firt place.
No problem, but I am curious; have you been faced with a decision to rape little girls, or kill young boys? I wonder if your life lessons have included such instructions from the bible, that ROCK solid piece of work;
Hank said: "...The Bible may have been 'written' by men, (and I say 'written') but it's content and messages has been ROCK solid in answering many, many life situations that have been thrown at me..."
Bible said: (Numbers 31 (King James Version))
"17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. "
Oh, I know, that's just that OT stuff that doesn't count (unless you want to push the 10/400 commandments to prove the US is a nation under a god). So, if you will, what lesson do you get from:
Mark 11
1And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,
2And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.
3And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither.
4And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him.
Are you a horse thief? We usta hang them thare galldamn varmits.
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/dinosaur.JPG)
Quote from: Elaine on July 29, 2009, 12:12:47 PM
I am pretty sure that was a love letter written to a young village girl by the king, where he expressed his love for her.
Some believe it is God's song of love for Israel, and some think it is simply a beautiful poem a man wrote to his beloved.
Would be interested in seeing if you have the gumption to actually look up some of the commentaries.
You might want to go back to the "Song". I highlighted the object of the affection (his, in red). Is your avatar Mt Evans, CO?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2009, 11:28:20 AM
my answer was to Dan.......and I will not waste anymore time on this, because it is pointless in the firt place.
I understand Hank. It just needed to be said by you and this video captures all your sentiments. Good job.
http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Hanks_World.wmv (http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Hanks_World.wmv)
WARNING: Large pile, I mean file. May take a few minutes to dump, I mean download. You might want to right click and "save link as"...
LMFAO! Wow...
Quote from: dan foster on July 30, 2009, 12:11:48 PM
I understand Hank. It just needed to be said by you and this video captures all your sentiments. Good job.
http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Hanks_World.wmv (http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Hanks_World.wmv)
WARNING: Large pile, I mean file. May take a few minutes to dump, I mean download. You might want to right click and "save link as"...
:rotfl: That's hilarious!
:finger2:
I tell ya', that guy in that video just exudes ignorance.
Here's ole' Jeebus again! He keeps showing up in the strangest places. This time, he's in a frying pan after a greasy cheeseburger was cooked.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2u9ljjn.png)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2560710/The-Holy-Roast.html
The title of the article is "The Holy Roast." :rotfl:
LOL!! From that article, there are more!
The Holy Toast Jeebus:
(http://i30.tinypic.com/vp920y.png)
The Holy Fish Stick Jeebus:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/bjaeme.png)
Jeebus in the Holy Suds:
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2q1x6b7.png)
:spooked: :biggrin:
The Holy Chapati Jeebus:
(http://i30.tinypic.com/1z177zq.png)
And finally, ole' Jeebus in the Holy Potato Chip:
(http://i31.tinypic.com/tzbdx.png)
Hey Palehorse, next time you're enjoying a Guiness, make sure you look for ole' Jeebus. I may have to have a beer now just to see if he shows up. :biggrin: :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on July 30, 2009, 05:40:22 PM
Hey Palehorse, next time you're enjoying a Guiness, make sure you look for ole' Jeebus. I may have to have a beer now just to see if he shows up. :biggrin: :rotfl:
Sorry, I only see a jackass, throwing up...must have been too much stout...
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/jackass.gif)
:rotfl: When you isolate that section of it image, that's certainly what it looks like.
Quote from: Locutus on July 30, 2009, 05:40:22 PM
Hey Palehorse, next time you're enjoying a Guiness, make sure you look for ole' Jeebus. I may have to have a beer now just to see if he shows up. :biggrin: :rotfl:
Hey! I saw Jeebus on a pack of rolling papers at the tobacco store. Only, they call him the Zig-Zag Man. . . :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 30, 2009, 07:35:12 PM
Hey! I saw Jeebus on a pack of rolling papers at the tobacco store. Only, they call him the Zig-Zag Man. . . :biggrin:
That's not Jeebus. That's Zappa.
Quote from: Locutus on July 30, 2009, 05:29:03 PM
LOL!! From that article, there are more!
The Holy Toast Jeebus:
(http://i30.tinypic.com/vp920y.png)
No. . . this is Frank on toast! :biggrin:
Needs a little Suzie Creamcheese.
Quote from: LOsborne on July 30, 2009, 07:49:13 PM
Needs a little Suzie Creamcheese.
Couple of catholic girlz will fix it right up! (With their tiny little mustache!)
LMFAO! God has a Facebook fan page...he must really be bored now that I don't have any more dogs for him to kill.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2009, 10:59:33 PM
LMFAO! God has a Facebook fan page...he must really be bored now that I don't have any more dogs for him to kill.
;)........new computer at home....facebook or no facebook..........i hate that your dogs died....but since you don't believe in God....it can't be His fault.
Yeah, Why ARE you two on this late?
Quote from: Palehorse on July 30, 2009, 07:50:30 PM
Couple of catholic girlz will fix it right up! (With their tiny little mustache!)
Just covered in chocolate syrup... :eek:
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/holyrollersgroup.jpg)
do you not sleep?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2009, 10:59:33 PM
LMFAO! God has a Facebook fan page...he must really be bored now that I don't have any more dogs for him to kill.
Isn't that amazing?? What's more amazing is how many of my damn friends are fans of that page. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2009, 11:03:48 PM
;)........new computer at home....facebook or no facebook..........i hate that your dogs died....but since you don't believe in God....it can't be His fault.
Using your logic that all good things are his work, all bad things must be as well.
Quote from: Locutus on July 31, 2009, 01:00:36 AM
Isn't that amazing?? What's more amazing is how many of my damn friends are fans of that page. :rolleyes:
Delusional losers. :rolleyes:
I may be moving to the other side after this week.In March because of horrible medical care I lost the love of my life . yeah ok I still believe Im just mad. then this week the most wonderful ,kind, loved young man I have ever know was taken in an accident. Rain and wet roads are to blame for this Indiana Mr Basketball death.How much pain and loss does this Family deserve? we are good ppl. We do all the things we are suppose to do . Rest in Peace Sweet Seth.
I heard about Seth yesterday, Jimdy. I just don't understand it. The police report says excessive speed, alcohol or drugs were NOT a factor. The poor kid just hydroplaned on I-64.
Ya know, I have quite a list of people the world would be better off without, and nothing bad ever happens to them. Not so much as a hangnail! Then we lose someone like Seth, who had already done so much good with his mentoring of young kids, and generous nature. There ain't no justice.
And that's why I continue to tell all the gods, "Don't expect credit for the good stuff, if you aren't going to accept blame for the bad stuff."
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
Delusional losers. :rolleyes:
then by YOUR standards........Dan is a winner?......maybe you need to re-thin
k the word "
delusional"
(thx lo)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 08:10:28 AM
......maybe you need to re-thing the word "delsuional"
How does one "re-thing?" And I don't believe "delsuional" is a word. Pray for spell-check.
Quote from: LOsborne on July 31, 2009, 08:13:38 AM
How does one "re-thing?" And I don't believe "delsuional" is a word. Pray for spell-check.
WOW!!!...I need a cup of coffee!!!...dang....I wasn't even CLOSE!!.. :eek:
Ah. Caffeine deficiency is always an acceptable excuse.
Quote from: LOsborne on July 31, 2009, 08:17:23 AM
Ah. Caffeine deficiency is always an acceptable excuse.
that is the best I can come up with this morning...........I rarely actually drink coffee....but, i am heading for the coffee maker right now....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 08:10:28 AM
then by YOUR standards........Dan is a winner?......maybe you need to re-think the word "delusional"
(thx lo)
There are no winners, or losers in this; but you just keep on fighting there hank.
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/boxer.jpg)
Quote from: jimdy on July 31, 2009, 07:43:43 AM
I may be moving to the other side after this week.In March because of horrible medical care I lost the love of my life . yeah ok I still believe Im just mad. then this week the most wonderful ,kind, loved young man I have ever know was taken in an accident. Rain and wet roads are to blame for this Indiana Mr Basketball death.How much pain and loss does this Family deserve? we are good ppl. We do all the things we are suppose to do . Rest in Peace Sweet Seth.
Sorry, but shit happens and the family doesn't deserve the good or the bad that comes with it, no matter how much they do all the things they are "supposed" to, or not. There is only one real mistake in life and that is deciding to end one (someone else's or your own). Everything else is just a good or bad decisions and no one really knows which ones are which, in that moment. So, for the most part, it is random and not much you can do about it, and there sure isn't anyone, or anything, sitting around planning it for you (good or bad). So, the family and the young man didn't do anything to deserve the tragedy. They couldn't have done anything to prevent it, either. Nothing fails like prayer. So, in the words of the poets;
"all that lives is born to die"...LZ
Quote from: dan foster on July 31, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
There are no winners, or losers in this; but you just keep on fighting there hank.
according to Ex, there are.....
Dan, I have NO fight in this at all....I have found peace, comfort and JOY in my life.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 12:39:35 PM
according to Ex, there are.....
Dan, I have NO fight in this at all....I have found peace, comfort and JOY in my life.
...as have I.
Quote from: dan foster on July 29, 2009, 09:29:25 PM
You think the author is a man, talking about another man? Ewww, not that there is anything wrong with that :biggrin:
OR, worse, you think it is a man talking about an underage girl, as in:
Numbers 31 (King James Version)
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
So, it is OK to murder little boys and to rape little girls, by the word of the bible, but oral sex is just beyond the pale? Isn't that just how you guys follow this crap; pick and choose what you want, but ignore the "other" stuff? Although, you turned the Song of Solomon into a gay sexual act. Not sure how you came to that interpretation and I don't need to look up or read anyone else's commentary. Yours is goofier than most. Why don't you provide the commentary from others that interprets it differently? I don't think your interpretation is quite on the mark.
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Medium.gif)(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Medium.gif)(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/Medium.gif)
(http://www.woodstockpropane.com/images/fukenheh.JPG)
Please read again, i did not say the author is a man talking about another man. I said it could be regarding God's love for Israel (the nation). That particular song of Solomon is open to interpretation, and I guess if you want it to be about chasing a honeybee around an apple tree, it can be.
by the way, it is not my interpretation, it is the interpretation of Matthew Henry. I just didnt look it up and copy him word for word. I am pretty sure he was not a goofy individual. However, if he was such, then I do appreciate being placed into his level of academia
And Moses had commanded the army of Israel, the nation (so you dont get all confligurated here and think it was Israel, the individual) to kill the Midianite women, since they were seducing the men into worship of Peor. Earlier, God had put to death the adulterers of Israel, the nation, so it was mandated that these women should also die. But the men did not follow the plan to kill the entire nation, they returned with the women. The women who were virginal were not killed, because they had not seduced the Israelites, and were therefore spared since they could not perpetuate the Midianite people. They could be taken by the men as servants, or indeed as concubines. The reasoning behind killing children during that time in history was that by allowing young boys to remain alive during war it was possible that the war would be repeated in the future.
Quote from: Elaine on July 31, 2009, 11:19:14 PM
Please read again, i did not say the author is a man talking about another man.
No, you didn't, actually what you said was this:
Quote from: Elaine on July 29, 2009, 12:12:47 PM
I am pretty sure that was a love letter written to a young village girl by the king, where he expressed his love for her.
So you think a man (the king) was writing these words to a young girl?
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste. Try as I might, I can't see that quote as anything but a metaphoric description of fellatio. And if your king "sat down under
his shadow" and tasted
his fruit, it is unlikely his majesty was addressing a chick.
All the squeamish counter-claims I've ever heard that the Song of Songs is about god's love for the church can't disguise the fact that most of it is flaming-hot pornography.
go take a cold shower, will ya.... :rolleyes: :razz:
Quote from: LOsborne on August 01, 2009, 07:41:01 AM
No, you didn't, actually what you said was this:
So you think a man (the king) was writing these words to a young girl?
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.
Try as I might, I can't see that quote as anything but a metaphoric description of fellatio. And if your king "sat down under his shadow" and tasted his fruit, it is unlikely his majesty was addressing a chick.
All the squeamish counter-claims I've ever heard that the Song of Songs is about god's love for the church can't disguise the fact that most of it is flaming-hot pornography.
Yes, what metaphor would support?;
Song of Solomon 5
4My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
5I rose up to open to my beloved; and my hands dropped with myrrh, and my fingers with sweet smelling myrrh, upon the handles of the lock.
This is almost clinical in it's verbiage. Maybe it's describing some hygienic practice as part of god's plan :biggrin:
Quote from: Elaine on July 31, 2009, 11:19:14 PM
Please read again, i did not say the author is a man talking about another man. I said it could be regarding God's love for Israel (the nation). That particular song of Solomon is open to interpretation, and I guess if you want it to be about chasing a honeybee around an apple tree, it can be.
by the way, it is not my interpretation, it is the interpretation of Matthew Henry. I just didnt look it up and copy him word for word. I am pretty sure he was not a goofy individual. However, if he was such, then I do appreciate being placed into his level of academia
And Moses had commanded the army of Israel, the nation (so you dont get all confligurated here and think it was Israel, the individual) to kill the Midianite women, since they were seducing the men into worship of Peor. Earlier, God had put to death the adulterers of Israel, the nation, so it was mandated that these women should also die. But the men did not follow the plan to kill the entire nation, they returned with the women. The women who were virginal were not killed, because they had not seduced the Israelites, and were therefore spared since they could not perpetuate the Midianite people. They could be taken by the men as servants, or indeed as concubines. The reasoning behind killing children during that time in history was that by allowing young boys to remain alive during war it was possible that the war would be repeated in the future.
To be even more precise, you said:
"...and some think it is simply a beautiful poem a man wrote to his beloved"
and I said:
"You think the author is a man, talking about another man?"
and you said:
"Please read again, i did not say the author is a man talking about another man."
and I say:
"YES YOU DID".
or, perhaps a bit more precise, you said "man wrote to his beloved", but it is clear from the "song" that the beloved is a "him" (his), so in essence you DID say it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 01, 2009, 09:54:11 AM
go take a cold shower, will ya.... :rolleyes: :razz:
Most men are happy to see me on my knees. Hmmmmm.....
More of Gawd's lil' children doin' the best they know how:
ISLAMABAD - Days of rioting between Christians and Muslims in eastern Pakistan following allegations that a Quran was defiled escalated Saturday, leaving six Christians dead, including a child, authorities said.
Members of a banned Muslim organization began torching Christian homes in the Punjabi city of Gora on Thursday after accusing them of desecrating pages from Islam's holy book, Federal Minister for Minorities Shahbaz Bhatti said.
"There is no truth in the allegation," he told The Associated Press, adding that he had himself visited Gojra on Friday and asked police to provide protection to Christians who were facing threats.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32248593/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
^---- Crap like that proves over, and over, and over, that religion is the vilest of memes. It obscures reality and clouds thought.
And it just keeps rollin' in.
WAUSAU, Wis. - A central Wisconsin man accused of killing his 11-year-old daughter by praying instead of seeking medical care was found guilty Saturday of second-degree reckless homicide.
Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted in the March 23, 2008, death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes. Prosecutors contended he should have rushed the girl to a hospital because she couldn't walk, talk, eat or drink. Instead, Madeline died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.
Sitting straight in his chair, Neumann stared at the jury as the verdict in a nearly empty courtroom was read. He declined comment as he left the courthouse.
Defense attorney Jay Kronenwetter said the verdict would be appealed. He declined further comment.
Prosecutors also declined comment, citing a gag order.
Mother convicted in spring
Leilani Neumann, 41, was convicted on the same charge in the spring. Marathon County Circuit Judge Vincent Howard set Oct. 6 for sentencing for both parents, who face up to 25 years in prison.
Their case is believed to be the first in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.
Last month, an Oregon jury convicted a man of misdemeanor criminal mistreatment for relying on prayer instead of seeking medical care for his 15-month-old daughter who died of pneumonia and a blood infection in March 2008. Both of the girl's parents were acquitted of a more serious manslaughter charge.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32252045/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Now the question that's begged by the above is, if Gawd indeed does exist, and he answers prayer of the dumbest among us, why didn't he save these two children cited above? Even better, he could have saved the children and offed the idiot parents instead. :mad: That would have been a far better outcome.
God sucks.
Quote from: Locutus on August 01, 2009, 06:03:20 PM
Now the question that's begged by the above is, if Gawd indeed does exist, and he answers prayer of the dumbest among us, why didn't he save these two children cited above? Even better, he could have saved the children and offed the idiot parents instead. :mad: That would have been a far better outcome.
God sucks.
Just doesn't get any dumber than that.
No it doesn't, but unfortunately, many continue to believe despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Quote from: Locutus on August 01, 2009, 10:04:12 PM
No it doesn't, but unfortunately, many continue to believe despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
One would have thought that by the 21st century, the feeble superstitions would be all gone. I guess it's "welcome to Idiocracy" as the masses can still be led to believe crop circle forecasts, alien abductions or illegal aliens becoming the POTUS.
People think the Prez is an alien?? Nnnnaaahhhhh. He can't possibly be a gray -- too tall. Or a Nordic (unlike Pariann) -- too dark. That leaves the reptilians, and subtle plots developed over time are not their style. They mostly slash, grab and eat. A few of them tried to infiltrate Daviess County politics (where slash, grab and eat is SOP,) but they were easily spotted. Their toothpaste smiles for the camera had too many yellow teeth.
Quote from: LOsborne on August 02, 2009, 10:49:06 AM
People think the Prez is an alien?? Nnnnaaahhhhh. He can't possibly be a gray -- too tall. Or a Nordic (unlike Pariann) -- too dark. That leaves the reptilians, and subtle plots developed over time are not their style. They mostly slash, grab and eat. A few of them tried to infiltrate Daviess County politics (where slash, grab and eat is SOP,) but they were easily spotted. Their toothpaste smiles for the camera had too many yellow teeth.
Their followers usually have no teeth :smile:
FARMINGTON, Mo. - Five people were killed in a head-on collision on a two-lane highway in rural eastern Missouri.
St. Francois County Coroner Jim Coplin said authorities found no skid marks at the crash site on Missouri Route 00 in an area surrounded by wooded farmland about 70 miles south of St. Louis.
Coplin also said there were no witnesses to the accident.
The coroner said 59-year-old Bessie Barker, her husband Walter Barker, 57, and 60-year-old Norma Holloway were returning home from a high school reunion when their car crossed the center line late on Saturday.
The Missouri State Highway Patrol said their car struck a vehicle belonging to 46-year-old Yvonne Fulton and 48-year-old Gregory Fulton. The Fultons were returning from a prayer service.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32265360/ns/us_news-life/
Don't go to a prayer service or ole' Gawd will off you on way back. ;D
Geebuz was calling them home...good.
There was an article last week about an infant who was in critical condition after being struck by a hit-and-run driver (she's now...DEAD!). Of course, she was struck because her mom and her mom's boyfriend (not the baby-daddy) decided it would be a good idea to push her along side of a street with no sidewalks at 2:30 in the morning so they could get cigarettes... Anyway, people were saying they'd pray for the baby...WTF? What good will praying to the same god that allowed her to get hit in the first place do?
If you pray to the porcelain gawd at least you can get a nifty swirly for the effort! :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on August 03, 2009, 02:23:35 PM
If you pray to the porcelain gawd at least you can get a nifty swirly for the effort! :biggrin:
:biggrin:
Four Great Religious Truths
During these serious times, people of all faiths should remember these four basic religious truths:
1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God's chosen people.
2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.
4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.
Sorry couldn't help myself..... :biggrin:
;D
Quote from: me on August 04, 2009, 10:33:41 PM
Four Great Religious Truths
During these serious times, people of all faiths should remember these four basic religious truths:
1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God's chosen people.
2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.
4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.
Sorry couldn't help myself..... :biggrin:
I forget who put this on the forum, but it is worth repeating;
A rabbi and a priest are sitting on a park bench talking.
A young boy sits down on a nearby swing and starts to swing.
The priest says to the rabbi; "how would you like to fuck him?", pointing to the young boy.
The rabbi, looking a bit puzzled, responds; "out of what?"
THANKS DAN:
I WAS LOOKING FOR THE IDEAL OPENING AND YOU ARE RIGHT ON TIME!
IN MY READINGS A QUESTION OF POSSIBLE COLLUSION BETWEEN HEBREWS AND CHRISTIANS HIT MY MIND PERTAINING TO THE CRUCIFIXION OF THE ENTITY KNOWN AS JESUS!
TO STOP A LONG STORY; REFERENCE DEUT.21:1-9 +DEUT21:22-23;
THIS IS GODS LAWS AS PASSED TO MOSES!
THE CRUCIFIXION APPEARS TO BE BASED ON THESE PASSAGES!
QUESTION;
WAS JESUS FOUND DEAD AND ONE BLAMED THE OTHER AND TOGETHER CAME UP WITH A GOOD STORY!
EXACTLY WHY i* BELIEVE THE NEW TESTAMENT IS A SEQUEL AND NOT A CONTINUATION!
ALL IT TAKES IS A GOOD STORYLINE!
DONALD D. CARTER
ANDERSON INDIANA
GNOSTIC
Quote from: me on August 04, 2009, 10:33:41 PM
Four Great Religious Truths
During these serious times, people of all faiths should remember these four basic religious truths:
1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God's chosen people.
2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.
4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.
Can't we all just get along? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY) :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 05, 2009, 12:01:55 PM
Can't we all just get along? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY) :biggrin:
That's a good one.... :smile:
Quote from: incognito on August 05, 2009, 01:26:30 AM
THANKS DAN:
I WAS LOOKING FOR THE IDEAL OPENING AND YOU ARE RIGHT ON TIME!
IN MY READINGS A QUESTION OF POSSIBLE COLLUSION BETWEEN HEBREWS AND CHRISTIANS HIT MY MIND PERTAINING TO THE CRUCIFIXION OF THE ENTITY KNOWN AS JESUS!
TO STOP A LONG STORY; REFERENCE DEUT.21:1-9 +DEUT21:22-23;
THIS IS GODS LAWS AS PASSED TO MOSES!
THE CRUCIFIXION APPEARS TO BE BASED ON THESE PASSAGES!
QUESTION;
WAS JESUS FOUND DEAD AND ONE BLAMED THE OTHER AND TOGETHER CAME UP WITH A GOOD STORY!
EXACTLY WHY i* BELIEVE THE NEW TESTAMENT IS A SEQUEL AND NOT A CONTINUATION!
ALL IT TAKES IS A GOOD STORYLINE!
DONALD D. CARTER
ANDERSON INDIANA
GNOSTIC
Sorry, but I don't believe a human (or son of a god) named jesus ever even existed. Not much to wonder about it, for me. Why people still believe that the creator of the universe would even need such a figure (found dead from suicide, or marched to the cross as a suicide) beats me. I doubt any of it ever happened and the "story" is based on hundreds of savior figures from earlier mythologies.
sorry guy i was just thanking you for your post which stopped me from a long entry.
i just used it for an opening. MY BAD! no offense intended!
i am not a believer in the messiah complex. i just used this thread to express a thought. i suffer no earthly religious mythology!
i am satisfied with my GOD! no matter what others believe. their god complex is their own. i just put a point and thought forward>BELIEVE ME IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!
EXACTLY WHY I STAY IN MY WORLD AND AWAY FROM HUMAN CONVERSATION!
8) :wink:
i guess i should explain my point of posting on this matter;
by the verses i mentioned. if a body is found and no one knows the cause of or who is the cause of death. distances to the nearest towns are to be measured. in the nearest town a cow is to be slaughtered and the HOLY FIGURES of the town are to WASH THEIR HANDS OVER IT AND AVOW/DISAVOW ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE DEATH(PILATE(?))
ANY BODY HUNG ON A TREE MUST BE TAKEN DOWN AND CEREMONIALLY BURIED BEFORE THE SUN GOES DOWN!
BOTH OLD TESTAMENT LAWS OF GOD!
HOW NEATLY THE NEW TESTAMENT WORKED THIS INTO THE JESUS ACCOUNT!
MY QUESTION IS NOT IF ANYONE BELIEVES JESUS IS GOD!
DOES ANYONE TRULY KNOW HOW THE ENTITY KNOWN AS JESUS DIED?
JESUS IS THE GOD OF CHRISTIANS. THE CHRISTIANS BLAME THE JEWISH NATION FOR THE DEATH OF CHRIST!
THE JEWISH NATION BY HISTORY BLAME THE ROMANS>THE MODERN DAY CHRISTIANS BEGINNING THROUGH>SAUL/PAUL--EMPEROR CONSTANTINE AND THE COUNCIL OF NICEA!
PLUS IT ONLY MAKES SINCE TO ME* WITH ALL THE CRUCIFIXIONS OF THE TIME A TREE IS THE MOST OBVIOUS. DUE TO THE OLD TESTAMENT IT WAS IN EFFECT FROM AT LEAST THAT TIME FORWARD TO THE TIME OF JESUS.
NO CROSS---JUST A TREE
IN MY* MIND*>IT SMELLS OF COLLUSION!
MY ONLY POINT!
Quote from: incognito on August 05, 2009, 11:08:12 PM
sorry guy i was just thanking you for your post which stopped me from a long entry.
i just used it for an opening. MY BAD! no offense intended!
i am not a believer in the messiah complex. i just used this thread to express a thought. i suffer no earthly religious mythology!
i am satisfied with my GOD! no matter what others believe. their god complex is their own. i just put a point and thought forward>BELIEVE ME IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!
EXACTLY WHY I STAY IN MY WORLD AND AWAY FROM HUMAN CONVERSATION!
Sorry, I wasn't jumping on anything you said, and you certainly can and should say what you want. I was just pointing out that I don't believe in a god, or someone people thought was his son. Neither entity.
Quote from: incognito on August 06, 2009, 12:22:42 AM
8) :wink:
i guess i should explain my point of posting on this matter;
by the verses i mentioned. if a body is found and no one knows the cause of or who is the cause of death. distances to the nearest towns are to be measured. in the nearest town a cow is to be slaughtered and the HOLY FIGURES of the town are to WASH THEIR HANDS OVER IT AND AVOW/DISAVOW ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE DEATH(PILATE(?))
ANY BODY HUNG ON A TREE MUST BE TAKEN DOWN AND CEREMONIALLY BURIED BEFORE THE SUN GOES DOWN!
BOTH OLD TESTAMENT LAWS OF GOD!
HOW NEATLY THE NEW TESTAMENT WORKED THIS INTO THE JESUS ACCOUNT!
MY QUESTION IS NOT IF ANYONE BELIEVES JESUS IS GOD!
DOES ANYONE TRULY KNOW HOW THE ENTITY KNOWN AS JESUS DIED?
JESUS IS THE GOD OF CHRISTIANS. THE CHRISTIANS BLAME THE JEWISH NATION FOR THE DEATH OF CHRIST!
THE JEWISH NATION BY HISTORY BLAME THE ROMANS>THE MODERN DAY CHRISTIANS BEGINNING THROUGH>SAUL/PAUL--EMPEROR CONSTANTINE AND THE COUNCIL OF NICEA!
PLUS IT ONLY MAKES SINCE TO ME* WITH ALL THE CRUCIFIXIONS OF THE TIME A TREE IS THE MOST OBVIOUS. DUE TO THE OLD TESTAMENT IT WAS IN EFFECT FROM AT LEAST THAT TIME FORWARD TO THE TIME OF JESUS.
NO CROSS---JUST A TREE
IN MY* MIND*>IT SMELLS OF COLLUSION!
MY ONLY POINT!
And, again, I would point out that trying to figure out what is behind the "story" is useless as it, nor any real thing that would have prompted the story, ever happened. I have pointed out in the past that Rev 13 is a very good description of a cometary or asteroidal impact in the middle east (there was one about 6000yrs ago). However, trying to make sense of the bible as if thing in it really happened is pretty useless as anything that helps give the bible credibility has the undesired affect of supporting the rest of the tripe. It is ALL tripe, and nothing more.
I personally do not BLAME, anyone.....It was part of the plan....it needed to happen. A final sacrifice was to be made......
(Matthew 27:31-32) - "And after they had mocked Him, they took His robe off and put His garments on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him. 32And as they were coming out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon, whom they pressed into service to bear His cross."
(Mark 15:20-21) - "And after they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, and put His garments on Him. And they *led Him out to crucify Him. 21And they pressed into service a passer-by coming from the country, Simon of Cyrene (the father of Alexander and Rufus), to bear His cross."
(Luke 23:26) - "And when they led Him away, they laid hold of one Simon of Cyrene, coming in from the country, and placed on him the cross to carry behind Jesus."
(Genesis 19:32) Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
:eek: :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 06, 2009, 09:55:06 PM
I personally do not BLAME, anyone.....It was part of the plan....it needed to happen. A final sacrifice was to be made......
(Matthew 27:31-32) - "And after they had mocked Him, they took His robe off and put His garments on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him. 32And as they were coming out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon, whom they pressed into service to bear His cross."
(Mark 15:20-21) - "And after they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, and put His garments on Him. And they *led Him out to crucify Him. 21And they pressed into service a passer-by coming from the country, Simon of Cyrene (the father of Alexander and Rufus), to bear His cross."
(Luke 23:26) - "And when they led Him away, they laid hold of one Simon of Cyrene, coming in from the country, and placed on him the cross to carry behind Jesus."
"A final sacrifice was to be made...... "
Why? You say that with such conviction that you truly KNOW the plan, so you must know why a final sacrifice was needed.
ROTFFL!!! My how the mighty have fallen.
New Coral Ridge pastor moves against members who want him fired
11:51 PM EDT, August 10, 2009
FORT LAUDERDALE
Internal divisions at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church burst into the open this past weekend as six members were ordered to stay off the premises.
The six have called for the ouster of the Rev. W. Tullian Tchividjian, saying he is deserting the heritage of his revered predecessor, the Rev D. James Kennedy. In reply, the Fort Lauderdale church has accused them of spreading rumors and disrupting church unity. Among the six is Kennedy's daughter, Jennifer Kennedy Cassidy.
Stresses are common whenever a longtime pastor is replaced, observers say. But with a huge, successful church with long-entrenched traditions - and a new pastor nearly two generations younger - the effects are heightened.
"I'd be surprised if it didn't happen," said Lesley Northup, a specialist in religion and culture at Florida International University. "Change is inevitable with a new pastor. And change produces discomfort. And it's magnified in a highly publicized place, where both the predecessor and the current guy are well-known."
Tchividjian, 37, a grandson of evangelist Billy Graham, was elected March 15 as pastor at Coral Ridge, which had lacked a leader since Kennedy died in September 2007. But if he thought he had a mandate for change, the small but vocal coterie of critics has hotly disagreed.
They have mass-mailed accusations to congregants, accusing Tchividjian of heavy-handed tactics such as downplaying the church's traditional service in favor of contemporary worship. They've criticized Tchividjian for replacing some Coral Ridge staff with his own people, and planning to sell land at the church's west campus "to make up for budget shortfalls."
Their recommended solution: a petition to put an end to Tchividjian's 4-month-old pastorate. More than 1,600 copies of the petition were mailed to church members on July 24.
The church sent the six a letter on Aug. 4, saying that if they step onto church property, they will be considered trespassers. A second letter on Thursday, signed by Tchividjian, gave the rationale: "No church government can tolerate such an insurrection from those who will not listen to admonition, refuse all counsel, and will stop at nothing until they have overthrown legitimate authority and replaced it with their own."
Church officials also visited the choir rehearsal on Wednesday night, telling the singers that if any of them signed the petition, they should consider resigning from the group.
"I told them that it's not proper to be a worship leader standing behind this pastor while disparaging him," said Bill Ashcraft, a member of the church's governing board who also spoke at the meeting. "You can have differences of opinion. But it has to be done more politely than has happened here."
Ashcraft said mail to church officials has been running 10-1 in favor of the church's position.
Jim Filosa, one of the six, said he'd expected the ban. "Tullian won't leave without a fight, and neither will we. If he had come in humbly, and done changes gradually, I think he would have been more accepted. Instead, it's been more like, 'Here I am - if you don't like me, there's the door.'"
The stakes are high because the church has long been watched by other Christians nationwide. Coral Ridge has spawned a K-12 school, a seminary and a radio-TV ministry. For several years, Kennedy also ran conferences called Reclaiming America for Christ, teaching people grass-roots conservative activism.
It all seemed a good platform for Tchividjian, one of seven grandsons of Graham. He is former pastor of New City Church in Margate, which has merged with Coral Ridge.
But rather than stressing "battleground" issues championed by Kennedy, such as abortion and homosexuality, Tchividjian urges listeners to set an example of the way believers should live.
His style puts him among a new breed of evangelicals, such as Joel Hunter, of Orlando, and Rob Bell, of Grand Rapids, Mich.: concerned less with politics and more with personal effectiveness as Christians. While they don't totally shun social issues - Rick Warren, of California, has launched programs on HIV and poverty - they set their gospel in a wider envelope of what it means to be a Christian.
At a Town Hall meeting on July 3, Tchividjian and his staff answered the charges by the dissidents. They said there was no budget shortfall and that only 15 of more than 70 church staff are from the former New City Church. Tchividjian also promised traditional ingredients at Sunday services such as choir and a pipe organ.
The governing board will meet sometime today to consider forming a judicial commission to deal with the six main dissidents. They'll be allowed to "give an account for the controversy their actions have created," Tchividjian's letter says.
To George B. Thompson Jr., of Atlanta, a specialist in church merger problems, the Coral Ridge ills are cultural. "We in society don't understand the complexity of organizations, religious or secular. People like Tchividjian could be doing what they think is right - even what they thought they were asked to do - and it still blows up."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fort-lauderdale/sfl-coral-ridge-081009,0,1648934,print.story
Ole' D. James Kennedy thought he was workin' for ole' Gawd but as soon as ole' Gawd offed him, he allowed his lil' chillins' to kick his daughter right out of the church.
:rotfl:
Gawd sucks, and appears to be an asshole too!
And his daughter was kicked out by Billy Graham's grandson!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It just doesn't get any better than this! :biggrin:
I may just have ta' attend a service there and see what happens. ;D
you need to find a hobby..... :yes:
:biggrin:
maybe collectin carved candles
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2009, 07:55:49 AM
you need to find a hobby..... :yes:
He has one ... making fun of the religious right. I must admit I enjoy it too.
Quote from: LOsborne on August 11, 2009, 08:13:35 AM
He has one ... making fun of the religious right. I must admit I enjoy it too.
but wouldn't it be more fun to do it to somebody who gave a crap?....unless you guys simply have fun among yourselves....
Quote from: LOsborne on August 11, 2009, 08:13:35 AM
He has one ... making fun of the religious right. I must admit I enjoy it too.
Exactly. More to come! :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2009, 07:55:49 AM
you need to find a hobby..... :yes:
Henry, you know you love this thread. Maybe one of these days, your eyes will be opened to how ridiculous it all is.
Quote from: Locutus on August 11, 2009, 01:08:58 PM
Henry, you know you love this thread. Maybe one of these days, your eyes will be opened to how ridiculous it all is.
and maybe, JUST maybe, one of these days, YOUR eyes will be opened, and realize how FOOLISH you have been....I can honestly and proudly say, that my eyes are FIXED upon God, and have NO intentions of EVER falling away from that.....but, the bottom line for me is....I love you guys...right or wrong, you are my bro's and sista's....and I only want YOU to be at peace.
Okay, Henry, you have me curious. Just how did you decide on the Christian god as your Supreme Being, out of all the deities this planet has produced? Give me some critical comparisons.
lemme help you henry!!!
1. God exists
2. Others don't
am giggling, cause i already know you will take that and run some huge commentary. but will be fun to read, and very passionate.
Quote from: Elaine on August 11, 2009, 07:21:43 PM
1. God exists
2. Others don't
How do you know? I have some fairly compelling anecdotal evidence regarding the existing of Coyote. And Kali. And Thor.
Not to mention all those Buddhists in the Eastern Hemisphere who think you are silly.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2009, 04:23:25 PM
and maybe, JUST maybe, one of these days, YOUR eyes will be opened, and realize how FOOLISH you have been....I can honestly and proudly say, that my eyes are FIXED upon God, and have NO intentions of EVER falling away from that.....but, the bottom line for me is....I love you guys...right or wrong, you are my bro's and sista's....and I only want YOU to be at peace.
The church is of men, built upon the imagination of the superstitious, and ran like any other business where money is the bottom line. Faith? An invention to suck the money and life out of the masses. It's all a hoax, hank, and very much deserving to be made fun of...
The atheist believes there is no god. The superstitious man believes there is, but wishes there weren't. --Plutarch
The origin of Buddhism can be traced back to around 563 BCE. Buddhism is a religion that is based on the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama, who was the son of a King. Siddhartha was in search of spiritual peace, it was on this search of this that he renounced his worldly advantages and became known as Buddha or The Enlightened One.
Didnt they replace Thors palace with a church somewhere around 1080?
Quote from: dan foster on August 11, 2009, 07:31:44 PM
The church is of men, built upon the imagination of the superstitious, and ran like any other business where money is the bottom line. Faith? An invention to suck the money and life out of the masses. It's all a hoax, hank, and very much deserving to be made fun of...
The atheist believes there is no god. The superstitious man believes there is, but wishes there weren't. --Plutarch
Just curiosity Dan,
what will happen when you die?
will you see people you love who have left this life?
do you have a soul?
what is that small voice inside you that speaks to you?
have you ever met someone that moves you, and you say to yourself, i know this person?
Quote from: Elaine on August 11, 2009, 07:32:27 PM
Didnt they replace Thors palace with a church somewhere around 1080?
Surely you aren't talking about this place!
http://www.whitesandsthailand.com/people/characters.html
hahaha
noooooo, it was in uppswala, sweden i think.
That one still belongs to Thor et al.
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/uppsala.html
psst.. if you are thinking of following him, I gotta warn you -- he has NO sense of humor.
Quote from: Elaine on August 11, 2009, 07:36:30 PM
Just curiosity Dan,
what will happen when you die?
will you see people you love who have left this life?
do you have a soul?
what is that small voice inside you that speaks to you?
have you ever met someone that moves you, and you say to yourself, i know this person?
hat will happen when you die? Nothing, and I mean that in every sense of the word. There will be nothing. I cease to exist.
will you see people you love who have left this life? There are no ghosts.
do you have a soul? There are no ghosts.
what is that small voice inside you that speaks to you? The left side of my brain.
have you ever met someone that moves you, and you say to yourself, i know this person? Moves me? How? I know a lot of people, I have seen people I thought I knew, I have experienced de ja vu, but I don't know what your question means. If you mean in a sensual way; yes, but you can rack that up to hormones, pheromones and genetics.
Quote from: Elaine on August 11, 2009, 07:32:27 PM
The origin of Buddhism can be traced back to around 563 BCE. Buddhism is a religion that is based on the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama, who was the son of a King. Siddhartha was in search of spiritual peace, it was on this search of this that he renounced his worldly advantages and became known as Buddha or The Enlightened One.
Didnt they replace Thors palace with a church somewhere around 1080?
That is the origin of buddhism that most attribute to the philosophy category. There many many sects, now, that are religions, however; complete with angels, ghosts, devils and demons, just like yours.
God sucks because he engenders thoughts like this amongst his flock:
"I'd rather be considered a religious nut, than to actually be an atheist fruitcake."
:rolleyes:
(http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/09/10/tomo/story.jpg)
Quote from: Exterminator on September 10, 2009, 11:31:45 AM
cartoon
Great cartoon. I found another good book I thought I would mention, here. I have found a very good synopsis of the insanity in a book I have been reading; A Reason Driven Life (a fantastic refutation of whackjob Warren's tenets).
There is a supposition in the book that all that jesus was about and the message he delivered (as a mythology) was based on the premise that doomsday WAS just around the corner for "him". As he told (again, as part of the mythology) his servants; you will see the end in your time. His message of give up all your possessions, feed the poor, forsake the NOW, really was all about "the end". If it was really NOW, then why would you worry about work, feeding your family, raising your kids, etc? It would be all about "catching the spaceship following the comet". You would drink the kool-aid at Jonestown.
All is lost, "without him". He will save you from the imminent "doom". Shame so many have hooked their afterlife (to the detriment of this one) on the mythology of a middle-eastern, hot-headed, doomsday cult.
That idea really does explain the jesus gig and just another savior mythology from the time, but also how it has been manipulated over the centuries to hook new generation after new generation. It really is the biggest hoax ever pulled off on humanity, topping only lowering cholesterol. :biggrin:
So what are you saying. There was no belief in the God we know now, before Jesus? He was another Jim Jones? Without the mass suicide?
Quote from: pariann on September 13, 2009, 12:31:27 AM
So what are you saying. There was no belief in the God we know now, before Jesus? He was another Jim Jones? Without the mass suicide?
If by god you mean god and jesus are one in the same, then yes to all. Otherwise, the angry god of the jews existed before jesus, but he hijacked that one and yes, he was just another jim jones, but only he committed suicide. His message of peace, love and understanding was all about doing the right thing as the wrath of heaven descended. No need to worry about anything else but taking care of your fellow victims, but mostly only those who believed. But, as usual, none of the folks that call themselves christian, today, bought into any of that; ala megachurch mania (I call it NASCAR religion with big stadium seating, just no beer.)
Of course, it is all a myth as jesus, nor the god of abraham, ever existed.
God Sucks!
And he appears to cater to the dumbest among us. This is acually a quote:
Quote
Pastor Jim i was wondering if i could talk to u sometime maybe situp a meetin n talk w u about my Ministry n where im goin w it if u can TAKE CARE GOD BLESS
I wan to situp a sitiation w all yall whrby I kin till ya how my Minsry of telln yall tha Gad feds on dum folk.
Gad suks.
:rolleyes:
^ HH, that's why it's dangerous. We need TONS of more education. The god myth preys on the ignorant.
EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. – The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island said Sunday that he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy in a 2007 letter to stop receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, because of the congressman's public stance on moral issues.
Bishop Thomas Tobin divulged details of his confidential exchange with Kennedy after the Democratic lawmaker told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin had instructed him not to receive Communion. The two men have clashed repeatedly in the past few weeks over abortion.
Kennedy did not say where or how he received those instructions. He declined to say whether he has obeyed the bishop's request.
"The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday.
Kennedy said the bishop had explained the penalty by telling him "that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I've taken as a public official," particularly on abortion.
Tobin said in a statement Sunday that he "has never addressed matters relative to public officials receiving Holy Communion with pastors of the diocese."
The outspoken prelate and Kennedy, a son of the nation's most famous Roman Catholic family, have feuded since Kennedy in an interview last month criticized Roman Catholic church leaders for threatening to oppose an overhaul of the nation's health care system unless it included tighter restrictions on abortion.
Kennedy voted against an amendment tightening abortion restrictions that was sought by the bishops. But he voted in favor of a health care plan that included the amendment he opposed.
Tobin urged Kennedy not to receive communion in a February 2007 letter, a portion of which was released publicly by Tobin's office Sunday.
"In light of the Church's clear teaching, and your consistent actions, therefore, I believe it is inappropriate for you to be receiving Holy Communion and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so," Tobin wrote.
It was not immediately clear whether Tobin and Kennedy spoke further about the request. Kennedy spokeswoman Kerrie Bennett did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment on the letter.
Tobin, the spiritual leader of Roman Catholics in Rhode Island, the nation's most heavily Catholic state, demanded an apology from Kennedy after the congressman criticized church leaders who opposed universal health care unless the plans included more restrictions on abortions. He also requested a meeting with Kennedy.
"While I greatly respect the Catholic Church and its leaders, like many Rhode Islanders, the fact that I disagree with the hierarchy of the church on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic," Kennedy wrote in a letter to Tobin, agreeing to a sitdown. "I embrace my faith which acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity."
Their meeting fell apart. While Tobin called it a mutual decision, Kennedy accused Tobin of
failing to abide by an agreement to stop discussing the congressman's faith publicly.
Tobin followed up with a biting public letter published in a diocesan newspaper.
"Sorry, you can't chalk it up to an 'imperfect humanity.' Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your Communion with the Church," Tobin wrote.
Susan Gibbs, a spokeswoman for Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl said officials with the archdiocese didn't know whether Kennedy attends Mass in the nation's capital. Anyone who does not believe in core Catholic teachings would be asked not to come forward for Communion, she said. Church leaders continue teaching and counseling those individuals, Gibbs said.
As for Kennedy, Gibbs said "we have not barred anyone from receiving Communion.
"We don't know of his worship habits," she said. "Most legislators return home on the weekends."
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_on_re_us/us_ri_bishop_kennedy;_ylt=AsQVGyHvnnxFOigtgXceqaus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNrMnM0ZGdvBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMTIyL3VzX3JpX2Jpc2hvcF9rZW5uZWR5BGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMgRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDcmliaXNob3Bhc2tl)
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Ah yes, the Kennedy's...A fine example of the Democratic religious hypocrites.
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2009, 01:17:18 PM
EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. – The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island said Sunday that he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy in a 2007 letter to stop receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, because of the congressman's public stance on moral issues.
Bishop Thomas Tobin divulged details of his confidential exchange with Kennedy after the Democratic lawmaker told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin had instructed him not to receive Communion. The two men have clashed repeatedly in the past few weeks over abortion.
Kennedy did not say where or how he received those instructions. He declined to say whether he has obeyed the bishop's request.
"The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday.
Kennedy said the bishop had explained the penalty by telling him "that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I've taken as a public official," particularly on abortion.
Tobin said in a statement Sunday that he "has never addressed matters relative to public officials receiving Holy Communion with pastors of the diocese."
The outspoken prelate and Kennedy, a son of the nation's most famous Roman Catholic family, have feuded since Kennedy in an interview last month criticized Roman Catholic church leaders for threatening to oppose an overhaul of the nation's health care system unless it included tighter restrictions on abortion.
Kennedy voted against an amendment tightening abortion restrictions that was sought by the bishops. But he voted in favor of a health care plan that included the amendment he opposed.
Tobin urged Kennedy not to receive communion in a February 2007 letter, a portion of which was released publicly by Tobin's office Sunday.
"In light of the Church's clear teaching, and your consistent actions, therefore, I believe it is inappropriate for you to be receiving Holy Communion and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so," Tobin wrote.
It was not immediately clear whether Tobin and Kennedy spoke further about the request. Kennedy spokeswoman Kerrie Bennett did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment on the letter.
Tobin, the spiritual leader of Roman Catholics in Rhode Island, the nation's most heavily Catholic state, demanded an apology from Kennedy after the congressman criticized church leaders who opposed universal health care unless the plans included more restrictions on abortions. He also requested a meeting with Kennedy.
"While I greatly respect the Catholic Church and its leaders, like many Rhode Islanders, the fact that I disagree with the hierarchy of the church on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic," Kennedy wrote in a letter to Tobin, agreeing to a sitdown. "I embrace my faith which acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity."
Their meeting fell apart. While Tobin called it a mutual decision, Kennedy accused Tobin of
failing to abide by an agreement to stop discussing the congressman's faith publicly.
Tobin followed up with a biting public letter published in a diocesan newspaper.
"Sorry, you can't chalk it up to an 'imperfect humanity.' Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your Communion with the Church," Tobin wrote.
Susan Gibbs, a spokeswoman for Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl said officials with the archdiocese didn't know whether Kennedy attends Mass in the nation's capital. Anyone who does not believe in core Catholic teachings would be asked not to come forward for Communion, she said. Church leaders continue teaching and counseling those individuals, Gibbs said.
As for Kennedy, Gibbs said "we have not barred anyone from receiving Communion.
"We don't know of his worship habits," she said. "Most legislators return home on the weekends."
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_on_re_us/us_ri_bishop_kennedy;_ylt=AsQVGyHvnnxFOigtgXceqaus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNrMnM0ZGdvBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMTIyL3VzX3JpX2Jpc2hvcF9rZW5uZWR5BGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMgRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDcmliaXNob3Bhc2tl)
:rotfl: :rotfl:
You're missing the point. Religion is about power and controlling people. It is today, and always has been. :wink:
In the words of Jesse Ventura:
"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."
He pretty much hits the nail on the head right there. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2009, 02:02:02 PM
You're missing the point. Religion is about power and controlling people. It is today, and always has been. :wink:
In the words of Jesse Ventura:
"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."
He pretty much hits the nail on the head right there. :yes:
I know what you were saying I just couldn't miss a chance for a dig there ya know. The Dems have their share of religious hypocrites too but still get a free pass. The Kennedy's are all a bunch of slime balls and that will never change.
Religious hypocrites run across the boards; all races, all creeds, all sexes, all political parties, and all religions.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html)
Quote
Rhode Island's top Roman Catholic leader has asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to stop taking Communion over his support for abortion rights, the diocese said Sunday.
In a statement issued Sunday, Providence Bishop Thomas Tobin said he told Kennedy in February 2007 that it would be "inappropriate" for him to continue receiving the fundamental Catholic sacrament, "and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so.". . .
Now tell me exactly how this isn't religion influencing politics???? How is this not religion trying to force everyone else to do as they say? :rolleyes:
Same crap, different century. . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 22, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html)
Now tell me exactly how this isn't religion influencing politics???? How is this not religion trying to force everyone else to do as they say? :rolleyes:
Same crap, different century. . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
But they would be doing the same if he weren't in politics and therefore it isn't being done just for that reason. I've known the Catholic church to excommunicate people for less.
Quote from: me on November 22, 2009, 05:18:24 PM
But they would be doing the same if he weren't in politics and therefore it isn't being done just for that reason. I've known the Catholic church to excommunicate people for less.
It is still forcing people to do as they say or "risk eternal damnation". Adversarial spiritual leadership!
Quote from: Palehorse on November 22, 2009, 09:33:50 PM
It is still forcing people to do as they say or "risk eternal damnation". Adversarial spiritual leadership!
True, but politics is not the only motive in this case.
Quote from: me on November 22, 2009, 10:32:55 PM
True, but politics is not the only motive in this case.
Never said it was. . . but it is still a "select few" trying to control the masses.
Quote from: Palehorse on November 22, 2009, 11:58:31 PM
Never said it was. . . but it is still a "select few" trying to control the masses.
And they're continuing to do a fine job at it. :yes:
Their refusing to allow Kennedy to participate in a religious right based upon his politics; ergo they are attempting to influence his political power and decision making toward a path of the religion's choosing, and away from that of the majority or the individual.
Religion :wall: Politics. They are to be kept separate!
Quote from: me on November 22, 2009, 05:18:24 PM
. . . I've known the Catholic church to excommunicate people for less.
Its the power thing pure and simple. In the dark ages folks believed it signaled eternal damnation to have such imposed upon them. Ol Henry VIII just started his own church when they tried that move on him. . . Wonder how such an action would be received in this day and age? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 12:07:30 AM
Their refusing to allow Kennedy to participate in a religious right based upon his politics; ergo they are attempting to influence his political power and decision making toward a path of the religion's choosing, and away from that of the majority or the individual.
Religion :wall: Politics. They are to be kept separate!
That is almost an impossibility since most politicians go to church whether they believe or are just using it for political gain. Oops, did I say that? :lipsrsealed2:
Quote from: me on November 22, 2009, 01:50:15 PM
Ah yes, the Kennedy's...A fine example of the Democratic religious hypocrites.
Do you simply not know what the word hypocrite means? :rolleyes:
The biggest problem I have with Christian doctrine is that get-out-of-jail-free card. "By faith alone." You can be the vilest, cruelist, most corrupt sonuvabitch on earth, have a death-bed conversion, and spend eternity in bliss. That's just wrong. Christianity teaches it followers there is no accountability.
By the same token you can be the most compassionate person in the world, giving all you have to better others, choosing poverty rather than turning a blind eye to suffering, working tirelessly to improve the lot of the unfortunate, yet go straight to hell if you have trouble swallowing that believing in Jesus is the only way to salvation.
I couldn't stand to spend eternity in a place with such screwed up values.
Quote from: LOsborne on November 23, 2009, 07:39:34 AM
I couldn't stand to spend eternity in a place with such screwed up values.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...I would no more want to live in heaven with a god who would subject those he "loves" to an eternity of suffering than I would want to stay, all expenses paid, at a resort owned by Hitler.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 23, 2009, 07:30:50 AM
Do you simply not know what the word hypocrite means? :rolleyes:
No, you simply need to think about what I said and who I was talking about.
Quote from: me on November 23, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
No, you simply need to think about what I said and who I was talking about.
I know exactly what you said and who you were talking about. You were responding to an article about Kennedy being refused communion because of his stance on abortion. Someone who, in the face of adversity, stands firm for that which he believes is not a hypocrite...quite the opposite. Perhaps you should learn to read. :rolleyes:
Just made a comment is all. Nothing to do with the article actually.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 23, 2009, 09:24:39 AM
I know exactly what you said and who you were talking about. You were responding to an article about Kennedy being refused communion because of his stance on abortion. Someone who, in the face of adversity, stands firm for that which he believes is not a hypocrite...quite the opposite. Perhaps you should learn to read. :rolleyes:
Actually, along these lines, I think the Catholic church's stand on abortion would hold a lot more water if they had been as outspoken when the priests were molesting little boys as they are about Senator Kennedy.
Quote from: Locutus on November 23, 2009, 01:06:27 PM
Actually, along these lines, I think the Catholic church's stand on abortion would hold a lot more water if they had been as outspoken when the priests were molesting little boys as they are about Senator Kennedy.
Their stand on a lot of things would hold more water if that were the case. Good point. Gonna have to give ya an A+ on that one. :yes:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 12:13:34 AM
Its the power thing pure and simple. In the dark ages folks believed it signaled eternal damnation to have such imposed upon them. Ol Henry VIII just started his own church when they tried that move on him. . . Wonder how such an action would be received in this day and age? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
I told yah Henry started his own church!
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16344.msg338448#new (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16344.msg338448#new)
Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 01:31:20 PM
I told yah Henry started his own church!
coincidence?..............I don't think so... :eek:
;D
Quote from: LOsborne on November 23, 2009, 07:39:34 AM
I couldn't stand to spend eternity in a place with such screwed up values.
I don't think you have anything to worry about. :wink:
:biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 12:13:34 AM
Its the power thing pure and simple. In the dark ages folks believed it signaled eternal damnation to have such imposed upon them. Ol Henry VIII just started his own church when they tried that move on him. . . Wonder how such an action would be received in this day and age? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Yup! Ole' Henry got tired of Catherine of Aragon and the Poop at the time wouldn't annul the marriage. :pope: So ole' Henry goes :finger2: to the Poop, sets up his own church, makes himself the head of it, gets rid of Catherine of Aragon, and marries Anne Boleyn. Course he later said :behead: to her.
:spooked: :biggrin:
Rumor has it that the ghost of ole' Anne still wanders around the Tower of London looking for her head. :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on November 23, 2009, 02:25:36 PM
Yup! Ole' Henry got tired of Catherine of Aragon and the Poop at the time wouldn't annul the marriage. :pope: So ole' Henry goes :finger2: to the Poop, sets up his own church, makes himself the head of it, gets rid of Catherine of Aragon, and marries Anne Boleyn. Course he later said :behead: to her.
:spooked: :biggrin:
And so the Church of England commands such reverence and power! :rolleyes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on November 23, 2009, 02:29:08 PM
Rumor has it that the ghost of ole' Anne still wanders around the Tower of London looking for her head. :rotfl:
Indeed. . . No wonder those folks all get blue hair so early! :biggrin:
Why is it that all religions have such a corrupt history?
Quote from: followsthewolf on November 23, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Why is it that all religions have such a corrupt history?
Because each one finds its roots in the struggle for control of the masses for the singular purpose of amassing personal wealth and power. . . And the centuries of pre-conditioning only makes it easier for those in control to initiate their plans. . .
the good thing about being a Christian is.....there does not have to be any "religion" involved....simply having a relationship with Jesus is all there really has to be...accepting Him as your personal savior...the rest is icing on the cake....
WAIT!!! I probably should move this thread to my new one and wait until Wednesday Nite to expand upon it......and YES, I will have popcorn, coffee, brew on tap....and PH, I will be sure to spread out newspapers for sanitary reasons....
They really are the dumbest among us. Found this lil' gem elsewhere.
the fool say there is no God.science can not prove evolution,they can't prove there is no God.People who get educated to much think that they don't need God anymore.I know for sure there is a God.If we all came from one living cell.Who created the one cell.Science now says the big bang theory,is a impossiblity.It took millions of years for God to create the universe.God is not one day older than he was 20 millions years ago.Time didn't even start as we know it until he create our sun,and our moon and all the stars.God took nothing and made all things.The big bang would have to happen over and over again to make all the stars,planets,suns and moons.Tell me how the big bang could place the sun in the exact place to have the right climate to have life.Did the big bang cause the earth to go around the sun.So friend you say there is no God,but I say to you elvolution,is a bunch of bolonga.and the big bang is for real,but the big Bang is God.The missing Link is none other than God.God is love and he love all of us.God bless you and your faqmily.
:rolleyes:
There was the smallest glimmer of hope in that statement you quoted, but then their brain short circuited! :biggrin:
all I have to say is, the God does NOT suck... :no:
He has done amazing things for me....and I can NEVER, for the rest of my life, say anything to dishonor Him...and I can say this, without an ounce of shame.
I know Henry and have met him face-to-face on more than one occasion, and that last post from him is true enough. He has never been one to shove his beliefs and religion down another person's throat. I respect that, and the fact he knows my position on the whole subject and affords me respect in kind.
I am happy for you in that Henry; I may not necessarily agree with the whole idea surrounding religion, but it does seem to be working for you what ever it is. :smile:
I, too, am glad that Henry's delusions make him happy. :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 23, 2009, 07:10:54 PM
the good thing about being a Christian is.....there does not have to be any "religion" involved....simply having a relationship with Jesus is all there really has to be...accepting Him as your personal savior...the rest is icing on the cake....
WAIT!!! I probably should move this thread to my new one and wait until Wednesday Nite to expand upon it......and YES, I will have popcorn, coffee, brew on tap....and PH, I will be sure to spread out newspapers for sanitary reasons....
So, you met and gave your heart to jesus (does sound gay, don't you think?) without any kind of religion being involved? How did that work? Did he come to you in a dream, you guys talked, and now you have a personal relationship with "him" without the slightest influence of "any religion involved"? Please explain. Thanks.
Quote from: dan foster on November 29, 2009, 12:42:56 AM
Did he come to you in a dream, ...?
Maybe he came to Henry in the laundry!
(http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/11/28/21/JesusIron_112909_11-29-2009_N91CQ9JO.embedded.prod_affiliate.81.jpg)
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/1599070.html
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: LOsborne on November 29, 2009, 11:01:37 AM
Maybe he came to Henry in the laundry!
(http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/11/28/21/JesusIron_112909_11-29-2009_N91CQ9JO.embedded.prod_affiliate.81.jpg)
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/1599070.html
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
:biggrin:
Or maybe while playing with his dog...
(http://www.irregulartimes.com/getbehindjesus.jpg)
Quote from: dan foster on November 29, 2009, 12:42:56 AM
So, you met and gave your heart to jesus (does sound gay, don't you think?) without any kind of religion being involved? How did that work? Did he come to you in a dream, you guys talked, and now you have a personal relationship with "him" without the slightest influence of "any religion involved"? Please explain. Thanks.
You have a problem with gay?
Quote from: Anne on November 29, 2009, 11:15:49 AM
You have a problem with gay?
Nope, but you know hank does.
Is that right Henry?
Quote from: Anne on November 30, 2009, 01:33:22 AM
Is that right Henry?
I have NO problems with gays what-so-ever....I do not approve of that lifestyle, but I also don't approve of hetro's that cheat on one another....but the bottom line is, it is THIER life, not mine....I have NEVER slammed any gay person on here...Anne, you need to learn that Dan is full of crap...and try's often to put words into other peoples mouth to win HIS arguement...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 30, 2009, 08:23:35 AM
I have NO problems with gays what-so-ever....I do not approve of that lifestyle...
Do you know what an oxymoron is?
Quote from: Exterminator on November 30, 2009, 09:43:43 AM
Do you know what an oxymoron is?
Lets not get philosophical ... my point is clear.
Wow!
Quote from: Exterminator on November 30, 2009, 09:43:43 AM
Do you know what an oxymoron is?
Yeah. Rush Limbaugh.
The moron who abused oxycontin.
Quote from: followsthewolf on November 30, 2009, 11:08:03 AM
Yeah. Rush Limbaugh.
The moron who abused oxycontin.
NOW THAT IS FUNNY...and I like Limbaugh. ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 30, 2009, 11:13:58 AM
NOW THAT IS FUNNY...and I like Limbaugh. ;D
Knew ya had a sense of humor, Henry.
:biggrin:
He just doesn't use it enough, and it gets all rusty and seized up sometimes. . . :biggrin: :razz:
Quote from: Anne on November 30, 2009, 01:33:22 AM
Is that right Henry?
Sorry Henry. Should have put a disclaimer in that. I know Dan tends to lump people into groups.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 30, 2009, 08:23:35 AM
I have NO problems with gays what-so-ever....I do not approve of that lifestyle, but I also don't approve of hetro's that cheat on one another....but the bottom line is, it is THIER life, not mine....I have NEVER slammed any gay person on here...Anne, you need to learn that Dan is full of crap...and try's often to put words into other peoples mouth to win HIS arguement...
So, you don't oppose gay marriage?
Quote from: dan foster on November 30, 2009, 10:32:46 PM
So, you don't oppose gay marriage?
I don't agree with it....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 01, 2009, 08:28:10 AM
I don't agree with it....
So, you misstated your case and do have a problem with gays? Which is it?
Quote from: dan foster on December 01, 2009, 09:50:03 PM
So, you misstated your case and do have a problem with gays? Which is it?
are you retarded?.........
I don't agree with you on most things, but I have NO problem with you posting on here. I don't agree with you, I think you are wrong, but I don't hate you. The same with my view on gays....I don't agree their choice of lifestyle, I think it's wrong, but I do not hate them....I have done nothing to try to stop them....but if you want my opinion of them I will tell you....you have a BAD case of not know what you are talking about, most of the time....you ASSUME, because that someone believes in Jesus Christ or the Bible, they simply HATE others who don't.....you honestly don't have a clue...you, in my opinion, an Archie Buncker...it is YOU who hate people who don't believe as YOU do...
where did I misstate my case?
A former colleague of mine accepted a transfer to another division in Florence South Carolina, and could not be more unhappy over it. (After less than a week).
Now, why is this in the God Sucks topic? Well, let me tell you why she is so unhappy. . .
She and her boyfriend went to Walmart this past Sunday.(He flew down from Indy where he is still working). They needed to pick up a tote to put the dog's toys in and so stopped in to pick one up. They were surprised to find everything concerning food items availble for purchase, but the side with the merchandise on it was chained off. Seeing the tote they needed, and the chains down adjacent to them, they went over a grabbed one, then picked up a few other items they needed.
When they went to the check out they were called "heathens" and the cashier refused to ring up their tote, since it was a non-food item. They demanded to see the manager, and while the manager was sympathetic he also refused to sell them the tote, stating, "If you want to buy it you need to come back after 1:30PM. It is a city ordinance that we cannot sell general merchandise, and can only sell food items until after 1:30pm on Sundays."
Then when my colleague went to her HR orientation session on Monday, she was asked what church she attended. When she replied they had just got there and had not had time to even decide that, she was told to pick a church and say she goes to it even if she doesn't. The HR person told her that "Florence is the Buckle of the Bible Belt, and people are going to ask you what church you go to. If you say you don't have a church they are going to invite you to their church and get very mad at you if you do not come. So pick a church and hope for the best." (Can you imagine how they'll react when they find out she's "living in sin?") :spooked:
My colleague is now looking for an apartment closer to Myrtle Beach. It'll be a 70 mile drive each way to work, but hopefully it will take her out of the "buckle" of the belt these zealots are already trying to stripe her with! :spooked:
That aint God's fault...........it's the people who suck!!... ;D
You know from what I have read here it sounds more like the name of this should not have been God sucks. It should have been the people who push organized religion in your face sucks. I do not have a problem with God or anyone else who believes or does not. It is when someone comes to my door and starts telling me what I am doing wrong that pisses me off.
Quote from: andersonbrent on December 02, 2009, 04:51:21 PM
You know from what I have read here it sounds more like the name of this should not have been God sucks. It should have been the people who push organized religion in your face sucks. I do not have a problem with God or anyone else who believes or does not. It is when someone comes to my door and starts telling me what I am doing wrong that pisses me off.
Exactly!!...
. . .or when the church starts encroaching upon government as it does here in Anderson and certainly to a much larger extent in Florence SC!
Maybe the title of the thread should be, "People Who Believe In An Invisible Man Living In The Sky Suck," because there ain't no god, ergo, no suckage.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 02, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
Now, why is this in the God Sucks topic?
As soon as you mentioned South Carolina, I knew.
Bingo Ex!
That state is chock full of nutjobs and zealots.
Here's an example of exactly what I'm talking about:
(http://www.christianexodus.com/images/ce_logo.png)
From their website:
ChristianExodus.org was founded in November of 2003 in response to the moral degeneration of American culture, and the rampant corruption among the powers that be. The initial goal was to move thousands of Christian constitutionalists to South Carolina to accelerate the return to self-government based upon Christian principles at the local and State level. This project continues to this day, with the ultimate goal of forming an independent Christian nation that will survive after the decline and fall of the financially and morally bankrupt American empire. We have learned, however; that the chains of our slavery and dependence upon godless government have more of a hold on us than can be broken by simply moving to another State.
As many like-minded Christian activists pursue independent Christian living without relocating, the scope has expanded to promote "personal secession" though many and various tracks, wherever they can be implemented. The long process of disentanglement from idolatrous dependencies includes such practices of moving towards a home-centered economy, with intentional community, home-schooling, home-gardening, house churches, health-cost sharing, private exchange, unlicenced ministry, and any other way in which we might live free and godly lives in Christ Jesus, without prostrating ourselves to eat from the hand of the imperial magistrate.
:eek:
The lot of those people are clearly nuts.
Kinda sounds like a hippy commune without the free love doesn't it?
My kids lived in SC and one of the things they were asked at the end of their job interviews and/or their first day on the job is what was their affiliation. The one who is Catholic got an Oh is response and the one who is Methodist got a I guess we can deal with that reaction to their answers. They both had very good jobs. They have since moved on to FL and VA to even better jobs, with no questions about their "affiliation".
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2009, 06:41:21 PM
Bingo Ex!
That state is chock full of nutjobs and zealots.
No doubt! Mississippi and Alabama got nothin on them! :spooked:
Quote from: Anne on December 03, 2009, 05:03:22 PM
Kinda sounds like a hippy commune without the free love doesn't it?
My kids lived in SC and one of the things they were asked at the end of their job interviews and/or their first day on the job is what was their affiliation. The one who is Catholic got an Oh is response and the one who is Methodist got a I guess we can deal with that reaction to their answers. They both had very good jobs. They have since moved on to FL and VA to even better jobs, with no questions about their "affiliation".
But that kind of shit is illegal! Regardless of how "core of the bible belt" they believe themselves to be, religious affiliation (or non-affiliation) has no place in the workplace. It shouldn't be asked about, and shouldn't be discussed in the context in which you and Palehorse have described it.
Quote from: Locutus on December 03, 2009, 07:03:21 PM
But that kind of shit is illegal! Regardless of how "core of the bible belt" they believe themselves to be, religious affiliation (or non-affiliation) has no place in the workplace. It shouldn't be asked about, and shouldn't be discussed in the context in which you and Palehorse have described it.
That was exactly my point in relating the experience my colleague has been through, and what I told her. But they do it and get away with it in these areas and it is just plain wrong and they should be punished for it!
Quote from: Locutus on December 03, 2009, 07:03:21 PM
But that kind of shit is illegal! Regardless of how "core of the bible belt" they believe themselves to be, religious affiliation (or non-affiliation) has no place in the workplace. It shouldn't be asked about, and shouldn't be discussed in the context in which you and Palehorse have described it.
It is a violation of federal civil rights law. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on December 03, 2009, 07:34:38 PM
It is a violation of federal civil rights law. . .
Why don't all those folks just do the rest of us a favor and kill themselves to be with jesus, directly, vice having to put up with "the magistrate" holding sway over them? If they were real christians, they would drink the poison kool aid as in Jones Town, and be with their maker without any interference from "this here godless state".
Quote from: dan foster on December 03, 2009, 10:29:03 PM
Why don't all those folks just do the rest of us a favor and kill themselves to be with jesus, directly, vice having to put up with "the magistrate" holding sway over them? If they were real christians, they would drink the poison kool aid as in Jones Town, and be with their maker without any interference from "this here godless state".
Bingo! But they won't because they're either:
1. Too scared to do it.
2. Too uncertain of their own beliefs to do it.
3. Both.
It's all a bunch of bullshit regardless of how any of them try to segregate themselves from organized religion. When it comes right down to it, most of 'em aren't that certain in their beliefs to to ahead an pull that trigger and trust in ole' Jeebus. :wink:
are you guys smoking dope?....
Every chance we get. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 03, 2009, 10:33:08 PM
It's all a bunch of bullshit regardless of how any of them try to segregate themselves from organized religion. When it comes right down to it, most of 'em aren't that certain in their beliefs to to ahead an pull that trigger and trust in ole' Jeebus. :wink:
Why should someone who believes in God and/or Jesus be in a hurry to die? Part of their belief (at least the different denominations I know) is that they are put on earth for a purpose and need to fulfill that purpose. Wouldn't killing oneself before their purpose in life is completed go against their beliefs? I don't think in most cases it is fear or doubt.
Quote from: Anne on December 04, 2009, 10:20:32 AM
Why should someone who believes in God and/or Jesus be in a hurry to die? Part of their belief (at least the different denominations I know) is that they are put on earth for a purpose and need to fulfill that purpose. Wouldn't killing oneself before their purpose in life is completed go against their beliefs? I don't think in most cases it is fear or doubt.
Anne, For what it is worth......it is pointless to discuss THIS issue with THESE guys....THERE is absolutly NOTHING you can say to defend anything Christian, that they would agree with...ALL Christians, are stupid and wrong...I have been down this road several times, and they do not have ANY interest in understanding what being a Christian means...they have drawn their OWN conclusions, and that is it.
by the way, you make a very good point....and I agree with you.
Quote from: Anne on December 04, 2009, 10:20:32 AM
Wouldn't killing oneself before their purpose in life is completed go against their beliefs?
Wasn't geebuz's purpose in life to die and aren't they trying to follow in his footsteps? :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 09:11:58 AM
and it shows.... :yes:
Yeah, well, reality is for people who can't handle drugs. :razz:
Quote from: Locutus on December 03, 2009, 10:33:08 PM
It's all a bunch of bullshit regardless of how any of them try to segregate themselves from organized religion. When it comes right down to it, most of 'em aren't that certain in their beliefs to to ahead an pull that trigger and trust in ole' Jeebus. :wink:
But you see they thought about that possibility; they being the leadership of the movements. It's why suicide is a mortal sin! If they do it they won't be with Jeebus but with the debbil!
Quote from: Palehorse on December 04, 2009, 11:12:35 AM
But you see they thought about that possibility; they being the leadership of the movements. It's why suicide is a mortal sin! If they do it they won't be with Jeebus but with the debbil!
Who EXACTLY is "THEY" PH?
is YOUR name PH?... :rolleyes: i don't think so.. :no:
I guess I gotta break it down then..
WHO is the leadership movement?...got any names or proof of these people's existence? or is this just a theory?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 11:27:11 AM
is YOUR name PH?... :rolleyes: i don't think so.. :no:
I guess I gotta break it down then..
WHO is the leadership movement?...got any names or proof of these people's existence? or is this just a theory?
The answer is contained within the book of absolute truths the Christians call "the Bible". Those responsible are the very same ones responsible for editing it.
"The Leadership" are those presently engaged in the role within the movement. Every last one of them.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 04, 2009, 11:32:48 AM
The answer is contained within the book of absolute truths the Christians call "the Bible". Those responsible are the very same ones responsible for editing it.
"The Leadership" are those presently engaged in the role within the movement. Every last one of them.
Do have any proof to support this or is this just YOUR theory?
Is there a card they carry or a secret handshake?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 11:27:11 AM
is YOUR name PH?... :rolleyes: i don't think so.. :no:
Here's a clue for you: they have this new thing for people who want to have private conversations; it's called email; check into it. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on December 04, 2009, 11:40:53 AM
Here's a clue for you: they have this new thing for people who want to have private conversations; it's called email; check into it. :rolleyes:
how about you simply read first before you answer.....not really that hard of an accomplishment....MOST people have something called commons sense and courtesy.....it was NOT an open statement, it was specifically called out to a particular poster...
nobody CARES what you think....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 11:34:13 AM
Do have any proof to support this or is this just YOUR theory?
Is there a card they carry or a secret handshake?
Is suicide a sin or not?
Quote from: Palehorse on December 04, 2009, 11:55:04 AM
Is suicide a sin or not?
are you dodging my question? :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 11:57:30 AM
are you dodging my question? :razz:
No, prove my assertion that suicide is a sin according to Christianity wrong. . .
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 11:52:39 AM
how about you simply read first before you answer.....not really that hard of an accomplishment....MOST people have something called commons sense and courtesy.....it was NOT an open statement, it was specifically called out to a particular poster...
nobody CARES what you think....
Public forum...and you can't even spell 'common sense'.
Now hold on....I simply asked you IF you had any proof to your claim that it was a big conspiracy to control man.....serious question....you have made several statements over the years...and I was just wondering HOW you came to this conclusion and if you had any REAL evidence of it or is it just a theory.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 12:13:18 PM
Now hold on....I simply asked you IF you had any proof to your claim that it was a big conspiracy to control man.....serious question....you have made several statements over the years...and I was just wondering HOW you came to this conclusion and if you had any REAL evidence of it or is it just a theory.
The "proof" is well documented within history, as I outline within some of the following posts I have made. History itself serves as empirical proof that religion, (all of them), are nothing more than a tool with which to control the masses and that it has been utilized as such, and continues to be utilized as such.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 08:46:53 PM
Part 1
The Eternal Struggle
Religion has been (and always will be by all appearances) the best known method for building and wielding personal power and wealth known to humankind. This fact was at the very foundation of the canonization process utilized during the "editing" of the Bible, and has always been the basis for the scare tactics utilized by supposed religious leaders throughout history. From the power hungry High-Priests of the dark/middle-ages, to the Falwells, Bakers, and zealots of today; money and power have always been the objectives. (Book-ended by the voice of God and the Holy Spirit).
Keep in mind that I consider myself somewhat of a Christian; just not a main-stream version that is so common today. (I became such via attrition. Read on). I've always maintained a level of doubt surrounding the resources and methods utilized in assembling the Holy Bible, and my Christian university education added to this doubt. (Imagine that!) I was brought up a southern Baptist by a fire and brimstone mother. Each Sunday she'd literally have to drag me and my siblings down several city blocks on the south side of Chicago, to the local church for our weekly scare tactic/brain washing session. I spent many a night sleepless and worrying myself sick as a lad, utterly convinced I was doomed to the eternal fire pits of hell just because I was looking at the bra section of the Sears catalog.
I was "saved", as they call it, at a very young age; mostly because I felt it was my only chance for avoiding the fire and brimstone lake of fire that the minister assured us every week awaited us if we did not come forward. I made my way to the pulpit when the call was made, crying, babbling, and pleading to avoid the fires of hell and eternal damnation. (As the oldest my siblings followed with me with their own versions of hysteria. We had talked about it many times and they were just as scared as I was). And a few weeks later I was baptized as additional insurance against this terrible fate. But as soon as I was old enough to have a paper route, (I got 3 of them), I made sure it was for the paper that printed a Sunday edition and lollygagged around in bed just long enough each Sunday morning to ensure I'd have to miss church in order to make my deliveries.
I also consider myself a man of science, and when scientific evidence is presented that contradicts the accepted version(s) of information contained within the scripture, I get real interested, real fast, and for my own selfish and personal reasons. I always did very well within the science courses throughout my schooling and into my higher education as well. It's just a subject I happen to love and have rarely, if ever, found boring or tedious. To tell the truth a lot of it just seemed to come naturally to me, and a lot of the time I took pride in the fact that I grasped a particular theory or methodology so much quicker than my classmates. I've always felt comfortable in science.
During high school the new minister of my mother's church was a pilot and a musician, and since mom knew I had a higher than average interest in both of these things she took it upon herself to create situations wherein I would have to spend time with this minister. It worked for awhile and actually ended up with my receiving a lot of unofficial flying lessons, and engaging in one on one talks with this minister about things concerning music. It also provided me with a discreet window into this minister and his "true" life outside of the church, and to put it politely he talked the talk, but he was way off in the weeds when it came to walking!
If so called believers were to be required to live as Jesus is to have said they should, most of them would be victimized by the zealots amongst them. Fraternization with thieves, whores, drunks, and addicts; how dare they! Yet these are the very things Jesus is supposed to have done. These are the "lost" souls among humankind, the wayward sheep the Shepard's are to bring back into the fold . . . but there is no money in that, no power to be gained. Most of the ministers I have been around make it a point to engage in activities that do these things; increase the flock, scare the kool aid out of them, and guilt them into tithing until it hurts, and then tithe some more.
They typically live in homes far and above those the average church member are able to provide for themselves; driving a new Cadillac or Town Car and dressing in some of the best suits available to them at deep discount from those members amongst the flock that were purveyors of such things. And the church was and is always in need of major repairs that are going to cost tens of thousands, or a new one is strongly desired by the "Lord". It usually ends up being a mansion of astounding proportions that requires even more tithing to heat and cool once it is built.
And while my topic here primarily surrounds Christianity and its myopic view of itself and its self serving purpose, I don't want anyone to think it is just Christianity I am having these problems with. Look at the Middle East; killing each other since before the time of Jesus, since before the book was ever conceived of, and still killing each other today; and all over religious differences when you get right down to it. Some sects feeling religious entitlement to certain portions of land, other sects feeling the same way, and in still other sects you will find that killing itself has become a religious right of sorts, with bastardized versions claiming it as the only means of achieving eternal rewards of various types. The whole situation can be summarized with this short phrase: Humankind- killing each other in the name of religion for centuries. Organized religion was created and exists for one purpose and one purpose only; to allow a select few to accumulate personal wealth and power. In the eternal struggle for control of the masses, there has never been another tool created to achieve such a high measure of success and longevity in this endeavor. It is one of the reasons why it has been so successful.
Can anybody tell me what God would ever endorse such behavior, such action, such destruction from its own creation as a means with which to obtain favor? And if there were such a God, who in their right mind would ever want to worship such an entity? What would be the purpose of life in such an obscured reality? Kill or be killed? To what end?
Perhaps my comments are far too dramatic for such a controversial subject I admit; however from my perspective organized religion is an entity manufactured by humanity that has been utilized throughout the ages as a means with which to exercise control of the masses, and provide a platform from which to build personal wealth and power. Jesus himself, (if the words within the bible are to be believed on some level, and I do hold this much to be true for if humankind cared enough to put the words down there had to have been some kind of purpose to it!), cautioned against this and is alleged to have taken several to task for these very actions; yet look around today and it is worse now than it has ever been. And the perpetrators are the leadership amongst them!
Jesus (and I am repeating myself here I am sorry) consorted with the throw away sector of society, provided them hope, lifted them up, showed them the way of life. How is this being done today? How many homeless persons do you see welcomed within your congregations? How many of the addicted, the down-trodden, the helpless are welcomed within the congregations of organized religion and lifted up by its leadership? Few if any you have to admit. Those rare exceptions of individuals that come to the congregation seeking the way, are patronized and most often serve as fodder for the cannons of gossip and judgment exercised by the leadership and congregations nation-wide. This is the reality of organized religion today; a cliquish group of supposed followers of Jesus that regularly lord it over the have not's, and those who question their methods and ways.
The very nature of humankind is greed, and so often throughout history we have seen the conquered adopt the ways of the conquering. (Native Americans and Christianity for example). Now the religions and leaders of the times back then certainly saw how quickly this man was able to amass a strong following. So why not use this to construct a better means of controlling the peoples and bending them to the will of those who hold the power? Use his teachings and mold them in a way that leads them down the desired path? (Don't think the religious leaders of the times were capable of such acts or thoughts. Think of the high priests of the middles ages and the way in which they controlled the Kings by claiming to receive messages from God telling them the King should blah, blah blah).
I have more admiration for the addicted Johnny come lately to religion that stands in rags on the street corners reciting the scriptures, than I do for the seminary graduating pastors who are in the business of fleecing the congregation of their money for the sole purpose of building their material possessions and power. (I met one of these seminary types at a wedding once at a local church. There were several instances wherein I would have liked to pimp slapped his holier than thou insolent face, and taken him down a few notches. But this would have broken the laws of humankind, and served as an insult toward the house of God; thus I held my opinions and intentions to myself). And I would further speculate that the creator does as well. I can feel it in my soul. And you can hear it in Johnny come lately's voice if you will but listen.
Just look at the "power" the COG wields in the Anderson area; you have to ask yourself, is this what the creator intended for his followers to do? I don't think so, not by a long shot. Where is the love? Where is the lifting up? Where is the supposed imitation of the path of Jesus in all of that? I don't see it, and they cannot see the path for being blinded by the desire for power and wealth! You don't buy that Christian leaders can stop anything? Take a look around in Anderson. Read the news. Do you not see what the COG is doing within this very community, the influence it exerts in city politics and planning decisions? The fact is Christian leadership exerts influence and wields its power every day.
The zealots have been conditioned by society and organized religion to accept these things unquestioningly. (And I do not mean that in a bad way either). I too was amongst you, and believed without question. Education, formal and informal, combined with life experiences have served to open my eyes and create the questions that I and many more have to ask. When presented with a situation such as the "Lost Tomb of Jesus", (more on this later), answers must be demanded and arrived at, and the status quo of unconditional acceptance is unacceptable to me personally.
Humankind has proven throughout history that we cannot be trusted, and I am not about to start changing my line of thinking on this right now. The Bible was authored, edited, and produced by humankind. How are we to accept it as unquestionable truth when it is incomplete and assembled at the hand and will of humankind? A humankind that has proven, and continues to prove each and every day, that it is solely motivated by greed; greed for power and wealth.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 08:49:16 PM
Part 2
The Tool
Since the beginning of time religion has struggled for control of the people with those who would lead them; from the healers of prehistoric times to tribal leaders, kings, queens, and presidents, the leaders of every religion have wrestled with them for control. During the times before the emergence of Christ and Christianity, the oracles and fortune tellers / astronomers would utilize naturally occurring and predictable astronomical events as signs to the leaders that something they personally wanted done needed to happen. This same methodology was utilized as a means with which to turn the kings and queens of the world into mere puppets of those with the "secret knowledge" they disguised as the ability to hold counsel with the creator. And they took advantage of it to amass personal wealth and power as a means to increase their station in life.
However, it didn't take too long before some of the leadership back then began to figure things out for themselves, by holding counsel with those who possessed new ideas and theories and educating themselves surrounding these things. The old tricks were not what they used to be and these individuals began to lose their grip on the reins of power; and a new way needed to be identified as a means to save themselves.
Along came Jesus Christ and this new idea of Christianity. Now just suppose for a moment, (and I hope you can free up your mind/thought process for long enough to give this some thought) Jesus was nothing more than a man. A man divinely inspired by the creator even works for me. His thoughts and actions, his words, were so revolutionary for the times in which he lived, (Remember, humanity burned "witches" many centuries later and this was after "civilization" had supposedly took hold of the worlds populations), that he was perceived as a threat, an aberration even, by the people of his time. (Some of them anyway. Remember, he did end up on the cross and died at the hands of the "justice" of the times). Yet, amongst the population he struck a chord with many. Some were inspired to follow him, and humanity being humanity, and writers being writers and taking literary license as they usually do, began writing down some of his actions and recording them in the methods of the times.
No doubt some believed so strongly in the things that this man was doing, that they felt compelled to try to bring the point across within the words they placed to "paper", much like the great novelists of the American Wild West days, exaggerating some points to retain the attention of their readers, and hopefully drive home their intended message; that Jesus was onto something here and his teachings were worth passing onto the generations to come.
Eventually the powers that were in control deemed this man enough of a threat to trump up some charges against him that would enable them to sentence him to his death, and so it was that it came to pass. Only problem was that by the time they had got around to executing him he had developed quite the following, and to make matters worse those within his inner circle had written letters outlining some of his deeds, and lot of his messages. They found themselves unable to quell the movement, much less control those with the information. (Certainly no one back then could even fathom that later generations would take their tales so literally, certainly to the extreme that some do today. And they certainly never could have imagined that science would one day have the ability to identify remains 2,000 years old and even millions of years old.)
As the years passed on the humanity within them came to the forefront, as those within the movement jousted for control of it; greed. That hunger for wealth and power rose to the top and with it began the scheming against each other. Of course after some time those with allegiances to the leaders of the people had infiltrated the movement and someone decided that all this documentation had to be assembled in one place, in order for everyone to better understand the message this man had for humanity.
Thus came about the effort to assemble the books of the "bible" through the editing of the writings of humanity from the times. What a power play this would have been for them. Determine what goes in, what stays out, and make the messages so subjective as to be able to make them say whatever you wish, thus control the people, the power, the wealth for themselves. The "gospels" are only "gospels" because they were deemed as such by the very individuals who edited and assembled them way back in the day. Do I believe there is some truth / value to be had within them, sure I do. But I do not agree with the subjective interpretations and incomplete record that this whole process of editing has left them to be. It gives me reason to doubt, to question, and that is enough.
From my days spent in a Christian University, it is clear that the bible was assembled from a collection of "letters" written by followers of the Christian faith. Parables, they were written by human beings, assembled by other human beings much later on, and magically these same human beings doing the assembly felt they had the authority to exclude anything they felt wasn't in keeping with their personal ideas of what the Christian faith is supposed to mean.
Each of these "letters were written by key figures within the circle of trust that was maintained by Jesus; including a key woman that history has shown was unfairly ostracized within later society and made out to be a whore. The reason for this is clearly obvious if one reads her letters, for they document a relationship with this man Jesus, painting a portrait of him that opposed the path the religion needed to take in order to render to those who assembled these works the personal wealth and power they desired. Moreover, even portions of those letters authored by those included within the completed text contained large portions of such information, and if they were included it would undermine the whole purpose behind this activity! So in their infinite "wisdom" these men that lived centuries after these authors had died, took it upon themselves to edit out everything that went against what they personally felt was the path this religion and its followers were to follow.
What provided them this right to undertake such a ludicrous action? How could they know or understand the true meaning and intention of the writers so many years later, much less know something more than they did surrounding the subject of said writings? They took it upon themselves to decide for humanity the path of the religion moving forward, because the true purpose of this whole activity was to create the new tool required to seize back the control lost when the leadership of the time became enlightened.
The book was assembled to purposely be vague and subjective in interpretation, to allow those who obtain positions of power within the church to wield power over the flock, to bend them to their will, and to allow them to accumulate personal wealth and power over the masses. As it has been utilized throughout history and continues to be. So certainly when empirical evidence is discovered there will be no limit to what can and will be done to obscure it; for it threatens their livelihood!
Throughout the subsequent centuries the leadership of Christianity has waffled upon interpretation of passages, providing explanations that best served their purpose at each time the questions arose; in each instance taking the stance that they are only passing along that which God has provided only to them, by speaking only to them. Placing themselves above all others amongst them and in the position to control and decide what is right and what is wrong. After all, does not the book clearly document the divine power provided to a man by God, and since it is God he can provide this same power to those chosen by him for eternity!
It is no wonder then that all these centuries later humankind struggles to understand why it is so contradictory, and just how it is that a man can sit down and write a set of letters on the very same subject matter, but have the continuity broken up by the fact that others much later adjudicate certain portions of that writing as incorrect. How can a man be divinely inspired one moment but not so in the next? Human greed is the answer. To exclude "letters" that document the fact that this same man married, that he had children, and when he was crucified his body was secreted away by those who loved him most, to be later laid to rest within a family tomb, only serve to further cast doubt upon the whole business.
Is it any more of a wonder that centuries after the completion of this book, when physical evidence providing empirical proof that a key foundational element of this book is wrong, is categorically denied and dismissed after a decade of it being hidden away from the world?
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 08:50:45 PM
Part 3
Creationism Verses Evolution
Science is an effort to understand the world around us, not explain it. Religion likely started out as a means to feed the spiritual needs of humanity, and this morphed into it being (abused) utilized as a tool to control humanity.
A human being is comprised of two parts, physical and spiritual. Our physical bodies are the window of what each of us basically considers "life" here on earth. Our bodies and their various systems work in conjunction to allow us to accomplish things, set goals, achieve them; to basically "experience this thing we call life. However our spirit, or soul if you will, is that part of our makeup that exists eternally; beyond the physical limitations of "life" as we know it here on earth.
Our spirits have always existed and always will, and it is this component of the experience here on earth that I believe to be the other half of the driver behind why religion has become so powerful, so all encompassing, and so vital to such a major portion of humanity around the world. It is my belief that human life does not truly begin until the physical merging of the two entities, our spirit and our physical bodies, that takes place upon the drawing of the first breath. It is at this precise moment that our spirits enter into the physical body that has been awaiting our arrival, and it is at this precise moment that our "life" here on earth begins.
Now while the above statement may hold serious ramifications for a portion of society and in fact elicit a strong opposition to the notions set forth herein, I submit that the lion's share of said opposition can be attributed solely to the collateral damage inflicted upon humanity by the centuries of religious rancor, oppression, and brainwashing; so before you go off on a religious crusade I would appreciate the opportunity to speak my piece here as best I can, so please, take a breath and read on for awhile.
Our spirits do not maintain overall control of our physical being, indeed, it is the experiences and the mentality these experiences create within our minds as we develop physically, that eventually assumes this role within our being while we are here. We are each born with gifts that are equal and far above and beyond that which you may imagine, but due to societal pressure to conform to that which society deems "normal and acceptable", we learn to suppress these gifts; and as we all have learned, that which you do not use you eventually lose.
As we develop physically and mentally, we learn to "forget" or repress our spiritual side; to purposely lose touch with it because unless we do we quickly learn we will be ostracized by society. For the religious among you reading this, think back to the prophets of the bible. The fortune tellers, the folks able to see the future, speak to the dead, and perform other great wonders. Have you ever asked yourself just why it is that these people existed back then and furthermore why it is that if they did indeed exist back then why they are not here now? The answer is that there are many among us who can indeed do these things today, and in fact each of us can still do these things if we would but drop the weight we provide to society in forcing us to repress these skills.
The people today have learned to hide these skills from society in general, and the fact that fakes and charlatans abound only serves to further assist them in obscuring their abilities from anyone they choose. Moreover, you will not find the people with these abilities amongst the fleeced flocks milling about within the organized religions of the world today, because religion serves as the panacea to the spirit, required to quell our spirits crying and need for acknowledgment in a world of physical being.
As with anything "living" nourishment is required in order to sustain life and obtain well being, happiness, and contentment. Despite the daily barrage placed upon our lives by the environment we call earth and our day-to-day "life", our spirits can be felt even today. That unsatisfied feeling of unrest, as if we are missing something, that which drives us to question the purpose of "life", that which drives us to understand life and our surroundings, that which completes us. It is our spirit and it demands attention of us. But since we have repressed this aspect of our lives here, we seek out ways to placate this need as we have done since the beginning of time. Religion plays to this need and for many it has now progressed to the point where it is the only acceptable means of acknowledging our spirits; we have become spiritual sheep to a panacea constructed of lies.
It is this very spiritual need that drives humanity to submit to that for which there can be no explanation within the physical world, to abdicate its own ability to that which is preposterous and clearly unreasonable to those who would but take some time to clearly review. Society has served to further the cause of religion by deeming anyone displaying any kind of "ability" at first a witch, and eventually ostracizing them when various religions began to frown upon actions like burning at the stake.
The crusades and inquisitions undertaken by early society endorsed torture, maiming, and killing as acceptable means with which to obtain confessions from those who would not accept the basic religious tenants of the time, exasperating the need for humanity to repress the spiritual side of our being, to hide it away never to see the light of day again. And all in the name of Christianity and religion, untold numbers of human beings are put to the fire, steel, and grave; and the purveyors of such deeds proudly display the sign of the cross upon their armor, flags, and crests while doing so, claiming the support of God for their actions.
Put yourselves in the place of the people who endured such acts of insanity; imagine if you will that all of sciences contributions to the world as we know it today are no longer in existence. Imagine your neighbors, your relatives, and your people being slaughtered in the name of some religion and man who you had never heard of before. Imagine being forced to accept this religion or die. There is no government but your King or leader, and there is no other way of life but that which has been provided since the day of your birth. Then these people arrive. If you cannot imagine back that far, then try imagining yourself a Native American; can what they endured be anything different, any less horrifying, any less wrong?
(To be continued. . .)
Quote from: Palehorse on March 13, 2009, 09:58:39 PM
Creationism Verses Evolution (Continued)
Throughout history the struggle for control of the masses has been undertaken on many fronts, not the least of which is science. Science and the church have waged a century's long conflict which clearly demonstrates the lengths to which religious leadership will go in the cause of preserving their golden goose. Not only have some of the great men and women of science had humankind to struggle with, but the threat to their very livelihoods that materialized each time a milestone achievement was arrived at. I shall forego most of these insidious incidents in an effort to spare each of us the history lesson, except for one; evolution.
Along came a man named Charles Darwin and in 1859 he authored a book on his perspectives/theories "On the Origin of Species" , ( when book-ended with the work of Gregor Mendel, an Augustinian priest and scientist, during the mid 1800's serve as provisional cornerstones for modern evolutional theory), and from its publication provided science with the impetus to investigate and validate his biological theories. Through the years science has done just that and with it identified, in theory supported in large part by empirical proof, how living things have evolved into the various species that modern humankind has come to identify.
Everything was going along fairly well, with only marginal objection being put forth from the religious leadership until it came to man himself and the theory that we evolved from apes; there the church drew a line in the sand. Once science was able to validate the theory that some 8 million years ago approximately a dozen hominid species emerged from the apes, and at least one of these species represented modern man, the church once again broke out the hardware and began imposing its influence upon our government, education, and science itself.
From the onset as the theory of evolution was supported within an ever increasing sector of the scientific community, the religious leadership undertook a massive propaganda campaign that utilized its centuries of preconditioning of the masses as a lever with which to censor scientists, educators, as well as the educational system itself; at various points subjecting its supporters to public trials that placed their very freedom in jeopardy. All of this indicative of the threat religion considered it due to the fact that, from their perspective, it provided empirical proof that could potentially disprove the historical / traditional teachings and beliefs of the church.
Once again the battle flags of science and religion were fluttering in the discourse of the ongoing conflict between these two, and so it continues to this very day with the lines being drawn and the eternal struggle continuing. The church steadfastly refusing to consider what science can prove to be truth, and science frustrated by centuries of offhand dismissal and public propaganda campaigns that in reality are nothing more than bluster; a paper tiger whose bite is only present due to the preconditioning of the very species that is controlled by them. All of this has served to blind both science and the church to any possibility of a blend of both perspectives, and so that path has yet to be seriously explored by more than perhaps a handful of individuals that may very well share my own perspective on the possibility to varying degrees.
Religion and I don't care which one you want to use as an example, for the most part is premised on the fact that there is a God, and that God created this place in which we exist, the universe in which it exists, and everything else. There are many among us that believe this is not true, or believe it to be true to varying degrees and not necessarily with the religious fervor of the zealot either. Personally I believe in a creator and I find it very hard to conceptualize this place, this universe, and all that exists not having a creator. Perhaps this is due to the fact I am human and everything in my experience has been or has to be created; or perhaps it is my eternal spirit that assures me it is so, I don't really know. And I can provide no empirical proof to the scientist in me to prove that my belief or faith if you will, in the fact that there is a creator is fact. None the less, I believe it to be true and so must accept it. For the moment let us just stipulate that there is a creator and leave it at that.
Traditional Christian belief is that all of these things came to be as they are outlined within the book of Genesis in its bible. Science does not endorse "say it and it is so" methodology and rejects that for which there is no proof, and through the centuries of scientific achievement has come to discover that which they believe to be the source for the start of all life and the universe/space; the big bang. The Christian religion rejects anything that does not support a text / letter written thousands of years ago, and despite scientific proof supporting the big bang theory they refuse to acknowledge it to be factual because it represents a natural event and can be explained.
If a fire occurs on your lawn one day the first thing you are going to do is put it out, then you are going to try to figure out how it got started aren't you? I mean, the grass didn't spontaneously combust! Someone threw a cigarette on it, lightening struck it, a vehicle backfired; there has to be a source of origin for the fire right? Your entire life and the sum of all of your experiences tells you that this is the case for each and every event that transpires each day, something, someone initiates what happens or what you experience, right? Even in nature this is true, as well as the laws of physics. Now extend this line of fact toward the formation of the universe. Even if you believe that it was all created by God, do you really believe that, (in the words of that ancient author), that the creator desired it and it was "so"? What does "so" mean?
Keeping in mind that when that author put those words down he had no conception of the laws of physics, he had no idea there was such a thing as space, the universe, time, and a virtual cornucopia of physical facts and laws that we today accept as matter of fact. To him disease was a punishment, as were floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, insect/rodent/vermin infestation and anything else that negatively impacted his life. My personal opinion is that when these words were written they merely documented the philosophy of a man musing on how all that was came to be, but here I will stipulate to the idea that the creator performed the act of creation. He/she desired to create that which we know, and the act ensued, but I do not accept that it was miraculously then "so".
Now let's incorporate a little scientific evidence into the story, because it is after all thousands of years later, we have evolved as a species, (or progressed if you prefer), and we know a lot more about everything. Tornadoes, hurricanes, rat infestations, all have explainable and documented reasons for their occurrences and we no longer have to sacrifice our first born or a neighbor in order to prevent ourselves from worrying about them.
So the creator creates, then what happens? Within the infinity that we now identify as space a huge bang transpires. The creator thinks/says that they want a universe and BAM!, chemical reactions happen, matter forms, dust emits from infinity and through time, (and I'll get to this subject later), the galaxies, planets, stars, and everything else form. In the creator's infinite and stipulated to wisdom, they await just the right moment within this process to identify a place within all they have created, including light, to create life.
"Let there be life". And from this act/statement/will begins the evolutionary process that eventually results in the emergence of modern man and his lust, greed, and eternal drive for power over all that is; and his need to understand everything.
Now we're pretty resourceful and some of us have some very vivid imaginations, (case in point, I know), and as we grown and struggled throughout this process we've created some wonderful things, done some terrible things, written about them, and along the way lost touch with our true selves, abdicating that which we are for that which civilization and society say we must be. There are rogues amongst us as history has shown, but we have survived and progressed as a species in most respects as is evident by the fact we are still here.
So what is the problem then? Control, greed, and lust for personal wealth and power. Why can it not be possible for what I have presented herein to be true? Why cannot science and religion accept that at the end of the day both of them may be right to varying degrees? Are the big bang and evolution the result of a creator's will or desire to create, and all that science has proven a direct result of this action?
I strongly suspect that as each of us reach our expiration dates for the physical bodies we occupy, and once again return to the eternal, spiritual beings that we truly are, we will look back upon all of this in disappointment concerning our understanding of it all. We let our desires for superiority over one another obscure our very purpose and origin to the point of erasing them altogether from our collective consciousness, and neglect that which is of the utmost importance to it all; our spirits and their growth. Our purpose is likely to be the addition of physical experience with which to better arm our spiritual being for a higher level of understanding, but of what?
(Next Up – The time conflict)
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13389.30 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13389.30)
From the bible itself, passages implying that suicide is a sin:
(1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NIV) [19] Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; [20] you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) [16] Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God&'s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
(Psalm 39:4 NIV) Show me, O LORD, my life's end and the number of my days; let me know how fleeting is my life.
(Psalm 139:15-16 NIV) [15] My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, [16] your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
The Bible records seven suicides:
Abimelech
Judges 9:52-54 Abimelech lacked personal identity.
Samson
Judges 16:25-30 Samson died for a cause he believed in and for revenge.
Saul
1 Samuel 31:4 Saul was stressed out, unable to live up to certain expectations; felt rejected and a failure
Saul's armor-bearer
1 Samuel 31:5 Impulse, he wanted to die with his boss. 40% of teenage suicide is impulse.
Ahithophel
2 Samuel 17:23 Ahithophel was bitter because his advice was not followed.
Zimri
1 Kings 16:15-20 Rebellion; Zimri had a problem with authority.
Judas
Matthew 27:3-5 Depressed, Judas felt trapped by materialism and guilt.
Wow! PH.........you GOT to find a job, utilizing your "God" given talent ( ;) ) . I have printed this off, and I am going to digest this further....I do NOT have time to read this in full today. Btw, I have read this before, but I have always gotten interupted during my reading of it. You do an unbelievable job of expressing your thoughts. Off the cuff, I do NOT agree with them, but I have a desirve to give you MY true response to these writings... (which should be in a book on the shelves at the book stores across America)...
Give me a few days to put my thoughts to words and I will respond.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 04, 2009, 01:57:40 PM
From the bible itself, passages implying that suicide is a sin:
(1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NIV) [19] Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; [20] you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) [16] Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God&'s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
(Psalm 39:4 NIV) Show me, O LORD, my life's end and the number of my days; let me know how fleeting is my life.
(Psalm 139:15-16 NIV) [15] My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, [16] your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
The Bible records seven suicides:
Abimelech
Judges 9:52-54 Abimelech lacked personal identity.
Samson
Judges 16:25-30 Samson died for a cause he believed in and for revenge.
Saul
1 Samuel 31:4 Saul was stressed out, unable to live up to certain expectations; felt rejected and a failure
Saul's armor-bearer
1 Samuel 31:5 Impulse, he wanted to die with his boss. 40% of teenage suicide is impulse.
Ahithophel
2 Samuel 17:23 Ahithophel was bitter because his advice was not followed.
Zimri
1 Kings 16:15-20 Rebellion; Zimri had a problem with authority.
Judas
Matthew 27:3-5 Depressed, Judas felt trapped by materialism and guilt.
And here from the book itself, is acknowledgment that the very thing I am saying was known to them:
(Rom. 7:15, 18 - 20) International Version
I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. . .I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. Romans 7:15-18-20 (King James Version) 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
So in a nutshell they explain away the human nature to seek out personal wealth and power by saying it is
sin that drives it. . . Doesn't this then make every single one of the present church leadership guilty of sin?
YES, if it is personal wealth and power that they are seeking.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 03:15:03 PM
YES, if it is personal wealth and power that they are seeking.... :yes:
Is not the desire to obtain control over a woman or man's body, possessions, income, labor, and life seeking to build for one's self wealth and power? If not to what end does man/woman undertake such action?
I have NO dispute that MAN is one greedy SOB.....always was and always will be.....and of course you aleady know that we are ALL sinners, despite ANYTHING....so, excuse me if I am missing your point.
It is my opinion, that man could NOT have compiled such a collection of books, that was written from ALL aspects of life and time, merely for wealth and power....there is too much continutiy for man to form such a perfect Book.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 02:30:40 PM
Wow! PH.........you GOT to find a job, utilizing your "God" given talent ( ;) ) . . .
Let me reiterate that I do in fact believe there is a "God", just not the one of human creation; with the hellfire eternal damnation and "do as I say, not as I do" philosophy at its core.
Augustine's
great puzzle sums it up best for me:
1. If God is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and perfectly good, then there can be no evil because:a) being all-powerful, he could do something about any existing evil,
b) being all knowing he would know about any existing evil, and
c) being perfectly good, he would want to eliminate any existing evil.
2. But there is evil.3. Therefore God is either:a) not all powerful (he can't do anything about the evil), or
b) not all knowing (he could do something if he only knew about it), or
c) not perfectly good ( he does know and could do something, but he doesn't care), or
d) some combination of a,b, and c.
And on "Free Will"
"For by the evil use of free choice man has destroyed both himself and it. For as one kills himself, certainly by being alive kills himself, but by killing himself ceases to live and can have no power to restore himself to life after the killing; so when sin was committed by free choice, sin became the victor and free choice was lost." In other words it left the building when Adam and Eve munched on that apple. . .
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 03:34:45 PM
. . .
It is my opinion, that man could NOT have compiled such a collection of books, that was written from ALL aspects of life and time, merely for wealth and power....there is too much continutiy for man to form such a perfect Book.
But only perfect to those whose perceptions of it are driven by the leadership and
their iinterpretations of it. To those who take a scholarly approach toward the book, it is far from perfect, vague, and very contradictory.
For example, lets go back to my original question; "Is suicide a sin according to Christians?"
The answer to that question depends entirely upon the perspective of the individual interpreting the words of the book, it's perceived implications and intention. In fact do a little digging and you'll find the Catholic Church does indeed consider it a mortal sin, bad enough to damned you to hell for eternity. In fact they will not even perform the ceremony of funeral for a catholic who commits the act, will not allow burial of the remains within consecrated ground, and their very name will be stricken from the membership rolls.
Ask other sects of Christianity that question and you will get answers that waffle between no, yes, and everything in between; along with a sermon to attempt to sway you toward attending their church. Think I'm lying? Google the question and see what you get!
And for those who hold the opinion that I am wrong surrounding the view of the Catholic Church on the subject of suicide, I present my source:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM)
The Vatican itself! Funny hat wearing guy and all! :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 10:45:57 AM
Anne, For what it is worth......it is pointless to discuss THIS issue with THESE guys....THERE is absolutly NOTHING you can say to defend anything Christian, that they would agree with...ALL Christians, are stupid and wrong...I have been down this road several times, and they do not have ANY interest in understanding what being a Christian means...they have drawn their OWN conclusions, and that is it.
by the way, you make a very good point....and I agree with you.
Wow, what a conclusion you hold; I was a christian. Was I stupid and wrong? Perhaps, but more likely brainwashed as I am sure you were. Do I understatnd what it is to be a christian? Yes, been there done that. Sorry we can't agree with you and me as, unlike you, WE HAVE DRAWN OUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. If you had done the same, you wouldn't be a christian. You have drawn someone else's conclusions and are sticking to them, that's all. You don't really have your own beliefs as you were TOLD EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE. You won't agree with that, but like myself and many, many others, if you studied christianity/bible to its logical conclusion, you wouldn't be still under its influence.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2009, 12:13:18 PM
Now hold on....I simply asked you IF you had any proof to your claim that it was a big conspiracy to control man.....serious question....you have made several statements over the years...and I was just wondering HOW you came to this conclusion and if you had any REAL evidence of it or is it just a theory.
I realize those papists aren't christians, to you, but there are volumes on their work in controlling humans and gov'ts. You must know that. If that doesn't work, how about the church of england; you know, the ones we held up as how religion should never own the gov't as forbidden in our Constitution.
Quote from: dan foster on December 07, 2009, 08:44:11 PM
Wow, what a conclusion you hold; I was a christian. Was I stupid and wrong? Perhaps, but more likely brainwashed as I am sure you were. Do I understatnd what it is to be a christian? Yes, been there done that. Sorry we can't agree with you and me as, unlike you, WE HAVE DRAWN OUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. If you had done the same, you wouldn't be a christian. You have drawn someone else's conclusions and are sticking to them, that's all. You don't really have your own beliefs as you were TOLD EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE. You won't agree with that, but like myself and many, many others, if you studied christianity/bible to its logical conclusion, you wouldn't be still under its influence.
If, as you say, you were a Christian, do you reject all Christian principles, or do you pick and choose?
Quote from: Anne on December 07, 2009, 11:29:40 PM
If, as you say, you were a Christian, do you reject all Christian principles, or do you pick and choose?
What about you? Are you a xtian or are you something else?
Quote from: Palehorse on December 08, 2009, 02:04:15 PM
What about you? Are you a xtian or are you something else?
I consider myself a Christian and try to practice my beliefs, be kind, try to help other people, etc. I asked Dan that because he said he "used" to be a Christian and turned away from it. I wondered if he kept any of the tenets of the Christian or he turned away from all christian teachings. What about you Pale? Do you have any of the same beliefs as christians?
I have no use for any organized religion. They all are corrupt.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 08, 2009, 05:17:50 PM
I have no use for any organized religion. They all are corrupt.
That wasn't my question, I know you hate all orgainzed religion, but do you also reject their beliefs and tenets?
Quote from: Anne on December 08, 2009, 05:22:58 PM
That wasn't my question, I know you hate all orgainzed religion, but do you also reject their beliefs and tenets?
Yes.
You do dirt, you get multiples of that same dirt dumped right back on you.
So, you don't believe in helping others, it is wrong to murder, cheat, lie, that sort of thing?
Do not put words into my mouth; I never said such a thing. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on December 08, 2009, 09:02:58 PM
Do not put words into my mouth; I never said such a thing. . .
Then what did you mean. I asked if you rejected all christian tenets and beliefs and you said yes. You can reject the organization of religion but still beieve in some of it's tenets, such as helping those in need, etc. Is that what you mean?
Boopie, is that you?
LOL!!!!
Quote from: Anne on December 08, 2009, 09:22:41 PM
Then what did you mean. I asked if you rejected all christian tenets and beliefs and you said yes. You can reject the organization of religion but still beieve in some of it's tenets, such as helping those in need, etc. Is that what you mean?
I would never seethe a kid in it's mother's milk. Does that really imply that I believe in some of the tenets of christianity? Just because common human decency is incorporated into the mythology, and I accept the same, doesn't make me a believer in any of the tenets of christianity. Christianity hasn't cornered the market on the no-brainers, so you can't give it credibility by asking such a goofy question. Being a christian isn't that you just agree that you won't murder someone; its that you are saved by believing in jesus, and nothing more.
Simple answer, yes. Being Christian is a lot more than just believeing in Jesus.
Subject: MISTAKEN IDENTITY
A man was being tailgated by a stressed-out woman on a busy boulevard.
Suddenly, the light turned yellow, just in front of him. He did the right
thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red
light by accelerating through the intersection.
The tailgating woman was furious and honked her horn, screaming in
frustration, as she missed her chance to get through the intersection,
dropping her cell phone and makeup.
As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up
into the face of a very serious police officer. The officer ordered her to
exit her car with her hands up. He took her to the police station where she
was searched, fingerprinted, photographed, and placed in a holding cell.
After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the
door. She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer
was waiting with her personal effects.
He said, ''I'm very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind
your car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of
you, and cussing a blue streak at him..... I noticed the
'What Would Jesus Do' bumper sticker, the 'Choose Life' license plate
holder, the 'Follow Me to Sunday-School' bumper sticker, and the
chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk; naturally...I assumed you
had stolen the car ..''
Quote from: Anne on December 08, 2009, 07:01:31 PM
So, you don't believe in helping others, it is wrong to murder, cheat, lie, that sort of thing?
Those principles are not unique to Christianity.
Dan, being a Christian is MUCH more than being "saved" by believing Jesus....and IF you don't know this, then I have my doubts that you was ever, REALLY a Christian...other than just going to Church.
Being a Christian requires one to strive for obtaining the fruit of the Spirit...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness and self-control....nobody is saying that "Christians" have cornered any market on these traits, but this is, or should be the goal of ALL Christians....
It has NOTHING to do with belonging to ANY "corrupt organization" .... you do not HAVE to answer to any authority..(other than God, and that is between you and God)...you do NOT HAVE to give YOUR money to ANY "organized" group....there are NO secret handshakes....
and the ALL this BS about Christians HATE Gays or HATE anyone...is coming from people like Dan, who has NO idea what being a Christian REALLY is....but it is this garbage and talking points that are being "spewed" by atheists, trying to bring and end to a system, that is set up to do nothing but good for EVERYONE...
it is Christians that spend MILLIONS of $$$$ every years....feeding the poor and homeless ALL over the world...they give their own time, working for these causes....it is WAY more than "just believing in Jesus"
just because of a few "TV" evangelist who "claimed" they were Christians, does NOT represent the millions and millions of Christians ALL over this world....who live their lives humbly and thriving for the "fruits of the Spirit"....and it is based upon the Word of God, via the Holy Bible and accepting it AS the inspired writings of regularly men, who had Divine intervention, and compiled for ALL human beings as a way to live our lives that would please the Creator of all things....
Okay, maybe I should move this to the The Unknown Zone Church thread.....
Quote from Henry Hawk:
"and the ALL this BS about Christians HATE Gays or HATE anyone...is coming from people like Dan, who has NO idea what being a Christian REALLY is....but it is this garbage and talking points that are being "spewed" by atheists, trying to bring and end to a system, that is set up to do nothing but good for EVERYONE."
Could you, or some other xtian, please explain what is the reason for the situation in Uganda?
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 09, 2009, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from Henry Hawk:
"and the ALL this BS about Christians HATE Gays or HATE anyone...is coming from people like Dan, who has NO idea what being a Christian REALLY is....but it is this garbage and talking points that are being "spewed" by atheists, trying to bring and end to a system, that is set up to do nothing but good for EVERYONE."
Could you, or some other xtian, please explain what is the reason for the situation in Uganda?
Again, I think, MOST Christians share the feelings as the below....
U.S. Christian Leaders' Statement on the "Anti-Homosexuality Act of 2009" Under Consideration by the Parliament of Uganda
Our Christian faith recognizes violence, harassment and unjust treatment of any human being as a betrayal of Jesus' commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves. As followers of the teachings of Christ, we must express profound dismay at a bill currently before the Parliament in Uganda. The "Anti-Homosexuality Act of 2009" would enforce lifetime prison sentences and in some cases the death penalty for homosexual behavior, as well as punish citizens for not reporting their gay and lesbian neighbors to the authorities. As Americans, some may wonder why we are raising our voices to oppose a measure proposed in a nation so far away from home. We do so to bear witness to our Christian values, and to express our condemnation of an injustice in which groups and leaders within the American Christian community are being implicated. We appeal to all Christian leaders in our own country to speak out against this unjust legislation.
In our efforts to imitate the Good Samaritan, we stand in solidarity with those Ugandans beaten and left abandoned by the side of the road because of hatred, bigotry and fear. Especially during this holy season of Advent, when the global Christian community prepares in hope for the light of Christ to break through the darkness, we pray that they are comforted by God's love.
Regardless of the diverse theological views of our religious traditions regarding the morality of homosexuality, in our churches, communities and families, we seek to embrace our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters as God's children worthy of respect and love. Yet we are painfully aware that in our country gays and lesbians still face hostility and violence. We recognize that such treatment degrades the human family, threatens the common good and defies the teachings of our Lord -- wherever it occurs. I don't have answers to WHY some Religious groups act the way they do, but the bible is pretty clear on HOW we should take a stance on such views....and I think it is THIS that represents the vast majority of Christians....it just don't make GOOD press like the radicals do...
Just why is it do you think, that humankind has so fervently followed such an obvious lever created to control it? Namely religion. . . It is because deep down inside our spirits long for what comes after the earthly plane upon which we physically exist. Our spiritual selves suffer from a form of amnesia in that we cannot recall lucidly that from whence our spirits came prior to this physical existence. At least not in the case of the spiritual majority anyway. Some of us can go there too; in fact most of us have that ability but societal pressures have driven us to repress it out of fear of being ostracized by the controlling majority amongst us.
We know it is wonderful, we know it is a very different type of freedom and existence than that which our physical selves can conceive of. And it is our spiritual selves that cry out for something more than what we can experience within the physical world, and it is just that longing that drives us to be prone toward latching onto religion as a form of panacea with which to placate that longing and give it direction.
For centuries the masses have been conditioned increasingly by the onslaught of the human God(s); Buddha, Mohamed, Jesus Christ, Jim Jones, David Koresch. (sic?). Each of these religious figures has, or has had, its following and as humanity increasingly becomes disillusioned with the human Gods it leaves them open for the likes of some of these sects as their spiritual voice cries out for direction and freedom.
I find it quite amusing to observe humanity as it creeps and crawls about, seeking spiritual guidance from some outward source, and failing time and time again. Christianity is one of the more successful of these endeavors in that it has been providing humankind's greediest with a means to control the masses and bend them to their personal will for increasing levels of wealth and power, for centuries now.
Utilizing everything from statements claiming devine guidance toward interpretation of God's word, (according to humankind:written, edited, and assembled by same), to threats of eternal damnation in the fires and brimstone of hell; these men and women lead the masses about the world by the short hairs. And they go without so much as a bleat.
Instead of looking for some kind of deliverance from an external source, humanity would be much better served, and a damned sight more successful, by seeking this spiritual guidance from within; from the spirit that is the eternal portion of your current physical makeup. Listen to yourselves people, and stop listening to the wolves in the shepherds clothing claiming to be your deliverers! They are nothing more than your own doom personified, with no other purpose than to utilize you as a means with which to feed their own greed and further restrict your spiritual freedom via utilization of brow beating and fear mongering, just as they and their kind have done since humankind first became aware.
Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit. Then learn to listen to it. Instead of spending Sundays at, and feeding, humankind's money machine, spend it within your own home, or at a secluded and quiet space where you can truly look within and hear yourself; and see the truth that has been there since the moment when your physical and spiritual selves were united within the context of that first breath.
It is not "God the Creator" that is sucking here, but rather I would submit it is the shortfalls of the "God of Humankind's Creation". And it is sucking because this God is very much like us and "his" words, written by HIS creator, (humankind), even go so far as to tell us that by saying "we" were created in his own image. This human God is a vengeful, bitter, greedy, and self-serving God. Those that know "him" are the Jerry F's, ET AL of the world that know how to utilize this human created tool to amass the personal wealth and power it was created to generate in the first place.
Back in the day, events like the LA Riots were a common thing, and they caused the rulers of humanity to experience the drizzles every time they transpired. They needed a way to control these things, and along came "God" and the "men" that could communicate with him. Some of these guys weren't dummies and they had already gone about teaching themselves about the sun, moon, stars; and a select few eventually learned to predict solar eclipses or other such celestial events.
Some of them had an idea and used these little secrets to demonstrate to the rulers that they indeed had the ear of the creator by making demands and threatening a divine event as a sign that unless they complied an even worse fate would await them. (Solar eclipse).
The rest is history, and if you don't believe it do a little research. While the kings and queens of those days may have been fat and sassy, when the robe wearers showed up they got real contrite until Ol Henry decided to test them. Successfully, among others.
Those robe wearing pigs eventually figured their power was rapidly leaving them and along came the sweet baby Jeebus hanging on the cross story and his followers; and with it an opportunity with which to build an even more and powerful tool with which to wield their power and control the masses; the bible.
Now, while I may have my timeline a little askew in the above I believe you get the gist of what I am saying here. God sucks because that "God" isn't the creator, it is the human God of human creation, and as such flawed.
Do I believe in a creator, higher being, or whatever terminology you'd like to use for it? Yes I do. But, not the one the world has created and uses to instill fear, forced compliance, and to amass personal wealth and power with. No friggin way! That God sucks!
Glad to hear the reassurance that MOST xtians feel that persecution of gays is wrong.
Still don't understand why conservative evangelicals created the situation in the first place.
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 09, 2009, 01:01:15 PM
Glad to hear the reassurance that MOST xtians feel that persecution of gays is wrong.
Still don't understand why conservative evangelicals created the situation in the first place.
It is the radical conservative evangelicals that causes folks like PH to HATE religion.....and, I got to admit, I understand why....
I just think it is ludicrious, to think that the Bible is some sort of elaborate scheme by some power seeking monks to control the masses....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 09, 2009, 01:10:39 PM
I just think it is ludicrious, to think that the Bible is some sort of elaborate scheme by some power seeking monks to control the masses....
Why?
Quote from: Locutus on December 09, 2009, 01:45:14 PM
Why?
First of all, I don't think man is smart enough to take 66 books, written by 40 authors, over a 1500 year span...with 3,000 prophecies...and put them all together, on their own wisdom and turn it into the ALL-TIME best seller and powerful enough to change lives of millions of people....without the help of Divine Intervention....to me, it is ludicrious....
Quote from: Exterminator on December 09, 2009, 09:53:40 AM
Those principles are not unique to Christianity.
No, but they are part of being a Christian. When you say you reject everything that is Christian you are also rejecting these beliefs. You can hate the organized religion part, not believe in Jesus or God, but still believe some of the same things that Christians and many or most other religions believe. When you say everything Christian is bad you are in effect rejecting those principles, too. Anyway, that is my opinion. I don't think you or Dan are bad people and I will not try to convince you to join an organized religion or tell you are going to he** in a handbasket. I take exception when you paint all Christians and everything they do or believe in as bad.
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 09, 2009, 01:01:15 PM
Glad to hear the reassurance that MOST xtians feel that persecution of gays is wrong.
I'm not so sure that the above statement is true.
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 09, 2009, 01:01:15 PM
Still don't understand why conservative evangelicals created the situation in the first place.
^^ That's one reason why I'm not so sure it's true.
The first part of my statement was meant in an ironic tone.
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 09, 2009, 02:53:46 PM
The first part of my statement was meant in an ironic tone.
:biggrin:
Thanks for clearing that up.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 09, 2009, 01:58:19 PM
First of all, I don't think man is smart enough to take 66 books, written by 40 authors, over a 1500 year span...with 3,000 prophecies...and put them all together, on their own wisdom and turn it into the ALL-TIME best seller and powerful enough to change lives of millions of people....without the help of Divine Intervention....to me, it is ludicrious....
Appeal to Popularity Logical Fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html)
You're also forgetting that particular set of books was written by folks who believed the Earth is flat.
:wink:
Quote from: Locutus on December 09, 2009, 03:01:03 PM
Appeal to Popularity Logical Fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html)
You're also forgetting that particular set of books was written by folks who believed the Earth is flat.
:wink:
Well it is scriptures that tell us that the Earth is suspended in space and it is round...... Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place,and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth"
The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word 'chuwg'.....which is also translated "circuit" or "compass".......which indicates something spherical or rounded.......not something that is flat or square.
The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 B.C.....It was scientist, several years later that concluded that the earth was flat ....it was scriptures from the Holy Bible, that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail
around the world.
what folks in particular are you claiming that the earth was flat?....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 09, 2009, 10:15:36 PM
The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 B.C.....It was scientist, several years later that concluded that the earth was flat ....it was scriptures from the Holy Bible, that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world.
what folks in particular are you claiming that the earth was flat?....
Circles don't have corners, NN.
Isaiah 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
and maybe if you can see to the "ends of the earth" from a "high" place, then it is flat, right, NN.
"The devil took him [Jesus] up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them."
- Matthew 4:8
"I saw a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
The tree grew, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth."
- Daniel 4:10-11
AND, the quote from you above is the most ignorant thing you have ever said, or you are a terrible liar. Columbus was inspired to sail West, not out of such mythology, but for gold and nothing more. The whole "flat earth" bullshit was made up by Washington Irving, the same asshole that tried to paint G. Washington as a christian. You need to either read more, or take some classes on history. Suggest Loewen's "Lies My Teacher Told Me", first. fuk.
From one of my deluded Facebook friends.
Quote
Wind stopped blowing thank the dear Lord. Have wind damamge, time to call our insurance agent to see what will be covered. Now, that I am running so far behind, have to get things into full gear.
The God myth is thanked for stopping the wind but is given no credit for allowing the wind that caused the damage. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 11, 2009, 10:46:50 AM
From one of my deluded Facebook friends.
The God myth is thanked for stopping the wind but is given no credit for allowing the wind that caused the damage. :rolleyes:
You should suggest they didn't pray hard enough with the hurricanes that hit in 2005. God will save us from the next one, if they go to the beaches in large numbers and pray together, until the storm has been redirected to some other area to kill "those people" instead.
Hey I live in Fort Lauderdale. I'll tell all those sheep up there at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church to do just that. :rotfl:
Speaking of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, seems ole' Billy Graham's grandson doesn't like payin' for the electricity for his own Christmas lights. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Neighbors to pastor's family: Thou shalt not steal our electricity for your Christmas lights
By Lisa J. Huriash, Sun Sentinel
December 24, 2009
Angry neighbors have accused The Rev. Tullian Tchividjian's family of coveting their electricity.
Jose and Ester Duprey told police the pastor's family plugged their white Christmas lights into the outlet outside of the Dupreys' Coconut Creek house.
Tchividjian, a grandson of evangelist Billy Graham and senior pastor at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, could not be reached for comment despite three messages left at his home and church Wednesday and Thursday.
According to the Dupreys' daughter, Elizabeth, her father found the lights plugged into his outlet on Sunday and immediately unplugged it. About 25 minutes later, he found it plugged back in, so the family called police.
The Tchividjians agreed not to use the outlet anymore, according to police records.
"The very next day, Kim, the pastor's wife, apologized profusely," Elizabeth Duprey said. "She said she was embarrassed, it won't happen again." The Dupreys declined to file charges.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/coconut-creek/fl-reverend-christmas-lights-20091224,0,689714.story
Now let's just have a look at the sheeple defending this asshole.
Quote
My, my the atheism by those before my post and since I'm feeling poetic...Did they ask for permission is the question that should be asked, rather that pose than Christian bash. Have yourselves a Merry Christmas, dirtbags...
Does this sheep really think law enforcement would have been called had the pastor had permission to use the outlet? Notice how this Xtian tosses out a Christmas eve insult to the atheists who are taking the reverend to task for his thievery? Dirtbags. Nice! :no:
Quote
nstead of jumping to conclusions and leaping to attack when the details are still quite sketchy, let's all just wait and watch the story develop. When the pastor responds, we will all get an answer. The Sentinel isn't going to just let this one go. What we do know is that it was plugged in, and the wife apologized. Seems like an innocent mistake to me. They don't own the house they are in currently, perhaps there is an outdoor outlet between their house and their neighbors. An innocent mistake. Seeing as they don't own the house, they are most likely unfamiliar with the electrical layout. This is also their first Christmas in this house, so it's their first time doing lights for this particular house. Let us all wait and see what happens.
Innocent mistake? :rotfl:
This asshole plugs the lights BACK in after having them disconnected by his neighbor and it's an innocent mistake? How dumb and blind can these sheep possibly be??
Quote
Right - just blame the pastor when it most likely was SOMEONE ELSE at his house that plugged the things in to the outlet.
Bunch of low-life devil-worshippers in S Florida. I'll bet you a kick in your nuts you're WAY more guilty of bigger schit than this non-story.
The devil-worshippers in South Florida dare to blame the pastor when "it most likely was SOMEONE ELSE at his house" that did the dirty deed. See why I can't stand these kind of people and the shit they pull??
Quote from: Locutus on December 25, 2009, 01:18:25 PM
The devil-worshippers in South Florida dare to blame the pastor when "it most likely was SOMEONE ELSE at his house" that did the dirty deed. See why I can't stand these kind of people and the shit they pull??
Part of their training to believe. They throw out reality and make up their own, based on what they are told from the "good book". And the HAVE to defend one of the herd as anything that might tarnish their image can't be true, either. Christians are not allowed to be human; they have to be christ-like and jesus would never steal anything (other than being a horse thief); :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:
Matthew 21
1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
2Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
Hey Dan! Love that FSM avatar you've got for the New Year! :biggrin:
(CNN) -- Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab wouldn't have to go to an al Qaeda training camp in Yemen to learn how to hate.
He had plenty of examples in his own country.
AbdulMutallab is the 23-year-old Nigerian being held for allegedly trying to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day. While much attention has focused on his privileged background, less has been said about the religious conflict in his homeland.
Christians and Muslims have been killing each other in Nigeria for much of AbdulMutallab's lifetime. At least 10,000 Nigerians have died during Christian-Muslim riots and ethnic violence during the past decade.
The most populous country in Africa, Nigeria is almost evenly divided between Muslims and Christians. It has become the focal point of Christian and Muslim groups -- in Nigeria and abroad, says Eliza Griswold, who has spent the last five years traveling to Nigeria to examine the causes of religious violence.
"Nigeria has become a battleground state for Christians and Muslims around the world who see themselves involved in a numbers game," says Griswold, author of "The Tenth Parallel," an upcoming book that explores the tension between Christians and Muslims just north of the equator in Africa and Asia.
"Any Christian or Muslim who has the point of view that numbers matter has a stake in Nigeria," she says.
The divisions between Christianity and Islam are more than symbolic in Nigeria. There's a geographic boundary: Nigerian Muslims tend to live in north, while Christians live in the south, Griswold says.
Many Nigerian Muslims see themselves as standing at the southern tip of the Islamic world, Griswold says. To the immediate south lie many African nations that tend to embrace Christianity.
"There is this attitude that Islam is under siege by the Christian West and, by proxy, Nigerian Christians," Griswold says. "There is this sense among some devoted Muslims in the north that we need to be part of the larger Islamic community, and we need to prove that we belong."
Nigeria's bloody religious history
That tension can cut both ways. Talk to some Nigerian Christians and one can hear the same concern as Nigerian Muslims: We are under attack; we have to preserve our autonomy.
Gbenga Akinbola, rector of the Mount Zion Anglican Church in Chicago, Illinois, has experienced religious tension in Nigeria. He led a congregation there only four years ago as a priest in the Nigerian Anglican Church.
He says Nigerian Muslims once tried to officially declare Nigeria a Muslim state and force some Christians in the north to adopt Islamic customs.
Both Christians and Muslims feel that they represent the one true God and are obligated to convert others, Akinbola says.
"They are doing what the leaders of both of these groups tell them to," he says. "Christians preach to Muslims, and Muslims try to do the same. For Christians, Jesus Christ has told us to go out and preach."
Sometimes, people don't want to be converted. And at a time when many young Nigerians are unemployed and looking for scapegoats, violence can easily follow, some Nigerians say.
In November 2008, at least 700 Nigerians died in Christian-Muslim riots that followed a disputed local election, Human Rights Watch reported. Two years earlier, the Nigerian army was mobilized to halt similar rioting after a Danish newspaper published a cartoon that depicted Mohammed, the founder of Islam, in a caricature, according to CNN reports.
The event that arguably attracted the most attention in the West took place in 2002 when the Miss World Pageant was relocated from Nigeria after Christian-Muslim riots killed 200 people.
Violence begets more violence, Akinbola says.
"When they kill Christians in the north, Christians in the south will retaliate against Muslims," he says.
He adds that the tensions between Christians and Muslims in Nigeria date back to British colonial rule. He says the British traditionally awarded political leadership positions to members of the Muslim majority in the north.
British colonial rule ended with Nigeria's independence in 1960. But some Nigerian Muslims still feel as if they are entitled to rule Nigeria, he says.
"If you see a license plate in one of the northern states, you'll often see an inscription that reads 'Born to rule,' '' Akinbola says.
Another side of Nigeria's religious story
The ferocity of religious disagreement is also fanned by unscrupulous political leaders, says Mohammed Ladan, a Nigerian Muslim who now works as a pharmacist in Atlanta, Georgia.
"Some of the politicians engineer this violence for their own political end," Ladan says. "If they can play Christians against Muslims, it can take attention away from the real problems of society."
Ladan says he never felt persecuted by Christians while growing up in northern Nigeria. Like several other Nigerians interviewed, he says it would be simplistic to say most Nigerian Christians and Muslims are engaged in a permanent civil war.
Several Nigerians told stories of having friends and even siblings of another faith.
"My wife is a Christian. Some of my best friendsare Christians," he says. "I can sing Christian hymns because I've been to church with my wife and friends, and theycome to my Muslim celebrations."
Other Muslims say the religious violence is a symptom of a deeper problem in Nigeria: widespread poverty and corruption.
Saratu Abiola is a Nigerian who shares some of the same background with AbdulMutallab, the suspected terrorist. She is also 23 and a Muslim who left Nigeria to attend an international boarding school.
Abiola, a recent graduate of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, says many Nigerians turn to religion because they don't think they can rely on the state. Though the country is rich with oil wealth, the cities are full of beggars and prostitutes -- it's common to see police officers brazenly demanding money at checkpoints, she says.
"People here get shocked by scandal," Abiola says of America. In Nigeria, "we just shrug our shoulders and drink our coffee. We expect the worst conduct from our high officials."
The corruption and poverty are so embedded that it even disturbs those few Nigerians who can avoid the problems, Abiola says.
"There's a real sense of despair, even among the ones who are better off," Abiola says. "They see what is going on, and they wonder: What on earth can you do to fix this?"
Faith becomes the fix for many Nigerians, she says.
"They feel wronged," says Abiola, who now lives in Washington. "They feel like the country has passed them by. When people don't have much, religion becomes more important."
Despite the country's history of religious violence, Abiola says she's still surprised that a young Nigerian Muslim would be accused of trying to commit mass murder against American citizens.
Many Nigerian youths love pop culture in America and adopt Western ways and watch Western movies, she says.
"We have MTV in Africa," she says. "Every year, we get at least five to 15 U.S. pop stars who come to Nigeria."
She says many young Nigerians learn to blend their Nigerian identity and their religious values with their love of pop culture in the West.
"For a lot of us, it doesn't present a burden -- we don't feel as if we have to choose between the West and the East," she says.
Griswold, the author who just spent five years in Nigeria, says events in Nigeria prove how small the world has become.
"When we, a thousand miles away, debate over whether we should be in Afghanistan or draw a cartoon, the people in Nigeria take up arms and fight it out," she says.
"They end up bearing the brunt of our religious debates in a very visceral way."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/12/30/Nigeria.violence/index.html
Here are two key points from the article above:
Point 1:
"Nigeria has become a battleground state for Christians and Muslims around the world who see themselves involved in a numbers game," says Griswold, author of "The Tenth Parallel," an upcoming book that explores the tension between Christians and Muslims just north of the equator in Africa and Asia.
"Any Christian or Muslim who has the point of view that numbers matter has a stake in Nigeria," she says.
Point 2:
Both Christians and Muslims feel that they represent the one true God and are obligated to convert others, Akinbola says.
"They are doing what the leaders of both of these groups tell them to," he says. "Christians preach to Muslims, and Muslims try to do the same. For Christians, Jesus Christ has told us to go out and preach."
These people are involved in a numbers game. It's us versus them. They all believe, "Our god is better than your god," but not one of them is smart enough to trace the history of their own religion enough to figure out that the Jehovah worshiped by the Christians is the same deity as the Allah worshiped by the Muslims. Dumb, and stupid people fighting about things they know nothing about.
The second point is they're trying to convert each other and if that doesn't work, they just kill 'em. The Christians try to do their duty under the Great Commission and the Muslims think that all should be converted to their religion.
I have to hold out hope that at some point in the future, Darwin will take care of the dumbest among us and humanity can move forward without people who need to believe in the fairy tales that religion is, let alone fight and kill because of it.
Irish atheists use Bjork, Mark Twain to challenge blasphemy law
(CNN) -- An Irish atheist group has published a series of quotations on religion in an attempt to challenge a blasphemy law that went into effect on New Year's Day.
The 25 "blasphemous" quotations include the words of Jesus, Mohammed, Mark Twain, Salman Rushdie and Bjork.
Atheist Ireland published the list on its Web site Friday. It says it aims to challenge the law, which makes blasphemy a crime punishable by a &euro25,000-($35,800) fine.
"Despite these quotes being abusive and insulting in relation to matters held sacred by various religions, we unreservedly support the right of these people to have published or uttered them," the group said on the site.
"We unreservedly support the right of any Irish citizen to make comparable statements about matters held sacred by any religion without fear of being criminalized, and without having to prove to a court that a reasonable person would find any particular value in the statement."
Lawmakers in staunchly Catholic Ireland passed the law in July, but it came into force January 1.
A person breaks the law by saying or publishing anything "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion."
Those found guilty of breaking the blasphemy law may try to defend themselves by proving that a reasonable person would find literary, artistic, political, scientific or academic value in what they said or published, the law says.
Atheist Ireland called the law "silly and dangerous," because it provides an incentive for religious outrage.
"We believe in the golden rule: that we have a right to be treated justly, and that we have a responsibility to treat other people justly," the group said.
"Blasphemy laws are unjust: They silence people in order to protect ideas. In a civilized society, people have a right to to express and to hear ideas about religion even if other people find those ideas to be outrageous."
The group urged the Irish government to repeal the law. It also asked lawmakers for a referendum on removing all references to God from the Irish constitution.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/02/ireland.blasphemy.law/index.html
:rolleyes:
Seriously! A blasphemy law??
Quote from: Locutus on January 02, 2010, 12:43:29 PM
Seriously! A blasphemy law??
Just a matter of time before the zealots try to push one through over here!
Quote from: Locutus on January 01, 2010, 01:05:09 PM
Here are two key points from the article above:
Point 1:
"Nigeria has become a battleground state for Christians and Muslims around the world who see themselves involved in a numbers game," says Griswold, author of "The Tenth Parallel," an upcoming book that explores the tension between Christians and Muslims just north of the equator in Africa and Asia.
"Any Christian or Muslim who has the point of view that numbers matter has a stake in Nigeria," she says.
Point 2:
Both Christians and Muslims feel that they represent the one true God and are obligated to convert others, Akinbola says.
"They are doing what the leaders of both of these groups tell them to," he says. "Christians preach to Muslims, and Muslims try to do the same. For Christians, Jesus Christ has told us to go out and preach."
These people are involved in a numbers game. It's us versus them. They all believe, "Our god is better than your god," but not one of them is smart enough to trace the history of their own religion enough to figure out that the Jehovah worshiped by the Christians is the same deity as the Allah worshiped by the Muslims. Dumb, and stupid people fighting about things they know nothing about.
The second point is they're trying to convert each other and if that doesn't work, they just kill 'em. The Christians try to do their duty under the Great Commission and the Muslims think that all should be converted to their religion.
I have to hold out hope that at some point in the future, Darwin will take care of the dumbest among us and humanity can move forward without people who need to believe in the fairy tales that religion is, let alone fight and kill because of it.
Yes. All good muslims and christians should heed the call to go to Nigeria and kill each other, THERE. If enough of the evangelical/radicalized (morons) go there and "die for their cause", then the rest of the world can live in peace.
NYT: U.S. link to Uganda 'death for gays' bill?
Three Christian evangelicals try to distance themselves from proposed law
By Jeffrey Gettleman
The New York Times
updated 6:21 a.m. ET, Mon., Jan. 4, 2010
KAMPALA, Uganda - Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about "curing" homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda's capital to give a series of talks.
The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was "the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda" — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.
For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how "the gay movement is an evil institution" whose goal is "to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity."
Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.
One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.
Donor countries, including the United States, are demanding that Uganda's government drop the proposed law, saying it violates human rights, though Uganda's minister of ethics and integrity (who previously tried to ban miniskirts) recently said, "Homosexuals can forget about human rights."
Foreign aid
The Ugandan government, facing the prospect of losing millions in foreign aid, is now indicating that it will back down, slightly, and change the death penalty provision to life in prison for some homosexuals. But the battle is far from over.
Instead, Uganda seems to have become a far-flung front line in the American culture wars, with American groups on both sides, the Christian right and gay activists, pouring in support and money as they get involved in the broader debate over homosexuality in Africa.
"It's a fight for their lives," said Mai Kiang, a director at the Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, a New York-based group that has channeled nearly $75,000 to Ugandan gay rights activists and expects that amount to grow.
The three Americans who spoke at the conference — Scott Lively, a missionary who has written several books against homosexuality, including "7 Steps to Recruit-Proof Your Child"; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-described former gay man who leads "healing seminars"; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, whose mission is "mobilizing the body of Christ to minister grace and truth to a world impacted by homosexuality" — are now trying to distance themselves from the bill.
'Horrible'
"I feel duped," Mr. Schmierer said, arguing that he had been invited to speak on "parenting skills" for families with gay children. He acknowledged telling audiences how homosexuals could be converted into heterosexuals, but he said he had no idea some Ugandans were contemplating the death penalty for homosexuality.
"That's horrible, absolutely horrible," he said. "Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people."
Mr. Lively and Mr. Brundidge have made similar remarks in interviews or statements issued by their organizations. But the Ugandan organizers of the conference admit helping draft the bill, and Mr. Lively has acknowledged meeting with Ugandan lawmakers to discuss it. He even wrote on his blog in March that someone had likened their campaign to "a nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda." Later, when confronted with criticism, Mr. Lively said he was very disappointed that the legislation was so harsh.
Human rights advocates in Uganda say the visit by the three Americans helped set in motion what could be a very dangerous cycle. Gay Ugandans already describe a world of beatings, blackmail, death threats like "Die Sodomite!" scrawled on their homes, constant harassment and even so-called correctional rape.
"Now we really have to go undercover," said Stosh Mugisha, a gay rights activist who said she was pinned down in a guava orchard and raped by a farmhand who wanted to cure her of her attraction to girls. She said that she was impregnated and infected with H.I.V., but that her grandmother's reaction was simply, " 'You are too stubborn.' "
Mob violence
Despite such attacks, many gay men and lesbians here said things had been getting better for them before the bill, at least enough to hold news conferences and publicly advocate for their rights. Now they worry that the bill could encourage lynchings. Already, mobs beat people to death for infractions as minor as stealing shoes.
"What these people have done is set the fire they can't quench," said the Rev. Kapya Kaoma, a Zambian who went undercover for six months to chronicle the relationship between the African anti-homosexual movement and American evangelicals.
Mr. Kaoma was at the conference and said that the three Americans "underestimated the homophobia in Uganda" and "what it means to Africans when you speak about a certain group trying to destroy their children and their families."
"When you speak like that," he said, "Africans will fight to the death."
Uganda is an exceptionally lush, mostly rural country where conservative Christian groups wield enormous influence. This is, after all, the land of proposed virginity scholarships, songs about Jesus playing in the airport, "Uganda is Blessed" bumper stickers on Parliament office doors and a suggestion by the president's wife that a virginity census could be a way to fight AIDS.
During the Bush administration, American officials praised Uganda's family-values policies and steered millions of dollars into abstinence programs.
Uganda has also become a magnet for American evangelical groups. Some of the best known Christian personalities have recently passed through here, often bringing with them anti-homosexuality messages, including the Rev. Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called "lies and errors and false reports" that he played a role in it.)
Many Africans view homosexuality as an immoral Western import, and the continent is full of harsh homophobic laws. In northern Nigeria, gay men can face death by stoning. Beyond Africa, a handful of Muslim countries, like Iran and Yemen, also have the death penalty for homosexuals. But many Ugandans said they thought that was going too far. A few even spoke out in support of gay people.
"I can defend them," said Haj Medih, a Muslim taxi driver with many homosexual customers. "But I fear the what? The police, the government. They can arrest you and put you in the safe house, and for me, I don't have any lawyer who can help me."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/
:rolleyes:
Good ole' American Xtians exporting their culture of hate and denial of rights.
Don't 'cha just love those compassionate evangelicals?
Quote from: followsthewolf on January 04, 2010, 02:31:40 PM
Don't 'cha just love those compassionate evangelicals?
They're scum. :mad:
More inanity from one of my Facebook friends.
WITHOUT GOD... our week would be: Sinday, Mournday, Tearsday, Wasteday, Thirstday, Fightday, Shatterday, Seven days without God - Makes one Weak! (If you are not ashamed of God, post this to your status.)
:rolleyes:
If it makes one happy to look at life this way, why does it bother you SO much?...
It doesn't bother me. I just enjoy pointing out stupidity when I run across it. :razz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulqhEgeffR4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulqhEgeffR4)
this is why our congress SUCKS!! :rant:
Quote from: followsthewolf on January 04, 2010, 02:31:40 PM
Don't 'cha just love those compassionate evangelicals?
oooh! oooh! oooh! Oxymoron alert!
Holy friendly fire.
What idiot could have possibly thought this was a good idea? :mad: :mad: :mad:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. General David Petraeus said on Thursday it was "disturbing" that a manufacturer had embossed biblical citations on rifle scopes sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, and the firm announced it would voluntarily halt the practice.
"This is a big concern to the Army and the Marine Corps, who have contracted for these particular sites," said Petraeus, the head of U.S. Central Command, noting the religious sensitivities American forces face in the two Muslim countries.
"This is of serious concern to me and to the other commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan because, indeed, it conveys a perception that is absolutely contrary to what it is that we have sought to do," Petraeus told a forum at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
"It is disturbing to us, frankly, that this was done," he added.
President Barack Obama has sought to convince the Muslim world that the U.S. fight against al Qaeda militants should not be viewed as a war against Islam.
Former President George W. Bush heightened those concerns shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington when he referred to his war on terrorism as a "crusade," a remark critics warned raised images of Christian knights attacking Muslim cities during the Middle Ages.
The biblical citations on the scope data plates had largely gone unnoticed until they were publicized last week by Mikey Weinstein, the founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. A photo on the group's Web site shows a data plate with the citation 2COR4:6.
That citation refers to 2 Corinthians 4:6, which in the King James Bible reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."
'RECRUITING TOOL'
The company that makes the scopes, Trijicon Inc of Wixom, Michigan, said on Thursday it had voluntarily offered to stop putting scripture references on products made for the U.S. military.
The firm agreed to provide 100 modification kits to enable the Pentagon to remove the plates on weapons already deployed. It also said it would offer the same remedies for foreign militaries that had purchased its scopes.
"Our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate," Stephen Bindon, the president of Trijicon, said in a statement.
He said the company "will move as quickly as possible to provide the modification kits for deployment overseas."
The Council on American-Islamic Relations welcomed the company's decision. The group, the largest U.S. Muslim advocacy organization, warned on Wednesday that the gun sights were a "potential recruiting tool for anti-American forces."
Petraeus, who said he had only learned about the inscriptions on the sights a day earlier, said, "I can assure you that there is much greater sensitivity among our troopers about this kind of thing than, apparently, there is in whatever contractor produced those sights."
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100122/ts_nm/us_usa_security_gunscopes;_ylt=Aimzc1IDWBXZDRwcowWmL8oEq594;_ylu=X3oDMTNlNmM5NG1zBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTAwMTIyL3VzX3VzYV9zZWN1cml0eV9ndW5zY29wZXMEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDZ2VucGV0cmFldXNj)
I've got one word for those ass hats: Aimpoint.
Bingo! Idiots!
Found this lil' nugget of intellectualism from one of the Xtians in another venue.
Quote<quoted text>
I would like to say one more thing about judging. Speaking out about a sinful behavior, whatever it may be, and saying it is wrong is not judging. Judging is when you say whomever is doing something you deem immoral or whatever is going to hell because of it.
:rolleyes:
They really can't see how stupid they are. Perhaps he needs to spend some time with a basic dictionary instead of his bible.
Quote from: Locutus on January 22, 2010, 12:22:43 PM
What idiot could have possibly thought this was a good idea? :mad: :mad: :mad:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. General David Petraeus said on Thursday it was "disturbing" that a manufacturer had embossed biblical citations on rifle scopes sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, and the firm announced it would voluntarily halt the practice.
"This is a big concern to the Army and the Marine Corps, who have contracted for these particular sites," said Petraeus, the head of U.S. Central Command, noting the religious sensitivities American forces face in the two Muslim countries.
"This is of serious concern to me and to the other commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan because, indeed, it conveys a perception that is absolutely contrary to what it is that we have sought to do," Petraeus told a forum at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
"It is disturbing to us, frankly, that this was done," he added.
President Barack Obama has sought to convince the Muslim world that the U.S. fight against al Qaeda militants should not be viewed as a war against Islam.
Former President George W. Bush heightened those concerns shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington when he referred to his war on terrorism as a "crusade," a remark critics warned raised images of Christian knights attacking Muslim cities during the Middle Ages.
The biblical citations on the scope data plates had largely gone unnoticed until they were publicized last week by Mikey Weinstein, the founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. A photo on the group's Web site shows a data plate with the citation 2COR4:6.
That citation refers to 2 Corinthians 4:6, which in the King James Bible reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."
'RECRUITING TOOL'
The company that makes the scopes, Trijicon Inc of Wixom, Michigan, said on Thursday it had voluntarily offered to stop putting scripture references on products made for the U.S. military.
The firm agreed to provide 100 modification kits to enable the Pentagon to remove the plates on weapons already deployed. It also said it would offer the same remedies for foreign militaries that had purchased its scopes.
"Our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate," Stephen Bindon, the president of Trijicon, said in a statement.
He said the company "will move as quickly as possible to provide the modification kits for deployment overseas."
The Council on American-Islamic Relations welcomed the company's decision. The group, the largest U.S. Muslim advocacy organization, warned on Wednesday that the gun sights were a "potential recruiting tool for anti-American forces."
Petraeus, who said he had only learned about the inscriptions on the sights a day earlier, said, "I can assure you that there is much greater sensitivity among our troopers about this kind of thing than, apparently, there is in whatever contractor produced those sights."
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100122/ts_nm/us_usa_security_gunscopes;_ylt=Aimzc1IDWBXZDRwcowWmL8oEq594;_ylu=X3oDMTNlNmM5NG1zBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTAwMTIyL3VzX3VzYV9zZWN1cml0eV9ndW5zY29wZXMEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDZ2VucGV0cmFldXNj)
Thanks Mikey. I am a proud supporter of Military Religious Freedom Foundation and it is good to see my dollars at work. The contractor should be fined, and/or imprisoned, and banned from DoD sales. Their actions are textbook "sabotage" and traitorous in nature.
sabo·tage (sab′ə täz̸h′, sab′ə täz̸h′)
...the deliberate obstruction of or damage to any cause, movement, activity, effort, etc.
And yet another silent battle has been won against America. And if you have no clue what I meant by that there is no hope. Oh, and for the record I don't agree with what was done, the message on the scopes, but that is neither here nor there in regards to what I meant by my statement.
Uh, the rest of us can't hear the voices in your head. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 25, 2010, 09:13:42 AM
Uh, the rest of us can't hear the voices in your head. :icon_twisted:
You don't have to hear voices in your head to figure out what I meant all you have to do is be observant which you obviously are not.
Sorry, but the rest of us aren't privy to your psychotic delusions.
Sorry but not having a psychotic delusions here just don't happen to be as dense as you seem to be.
Me your statement is based upon the assumption that our nation, indeed our government, consists of religion as the keystone to its success. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Quote from: Palehorse on January 25, 2010, 02:30:00 PM
Me your statement is based upon the assumption that our nation, indeed our government, consists of religion as the keystone to its success. Nothing could be further from the truth!
though I personally digress.......I believe that there should NOT be scripture on our military equipment....it seems like this is just stupid...and asking to get the nonreligious crowd fired up....and justifiably so....
for me, I think there is bigger fish to fry, as far as Christian Rights as it correlates to American pride and heritage....
Petraeus is correct........but, I can understand the mentality of the Marines, who are fighting day in and day out...against those who hate Christians...and a large number of Marines have Christian upbringing and feel as though they are killing enemies of the God of Abraham...(I'm not condoning it, just saying I understand the "thought process" of those boys fighting right now in those countries....that's all.
Perhaps a bit more "sensitization" is in order for those being sent to combat zones.
We are NOT "crusaders."
Quote from: Henry Hawk on January 25, 2010, 04:53:48 PM
though I personally digress.......I believe that there should NOT be scripture on our military equipment....it seems like this is just stupid...and asking to get the nonreligious crowd fired up....and justifiably so....
for me, I think there is bigger fish to fry, as far as Christian Rights as it correlates to American pride and heritage....
Petraeus is correct........but, I can understand the mentality of the Marines, who are fighting day in and day out...against those who hate Christians...and a large number of Marines have Christian upbringing and feel as though they are killing enemies of the God of Abraham...(I'm not condoning it, just saying I understand the "thought process" of those boys fighting right now in those countries....that's all.
Yes, those christian ethics (oxymoron) at work.
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Prayers for our dear friends, Patty and Tommy, who lost their home this morning to a fire. Yes CACC folks it was them. They have lost all. GOD was good though, they are safe.
:rolleyes:
Every time I see one of these posts, I really want to ask, "If God was so good, why did their fucking house burn down?"
Why can't people see how clearly delusional this sort of talk really is?
Quote from: Locutus on January 26, 2010, 11:29:02 AM
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:rolleyes:
Every time I see one of these posts, I really want to ask, "If God was so good, why did their fucking house burn down?"
Why can't people see how clearly delusional this sort of talk really is?
Devil...fire...helloooooooooo! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 26, 2010, 11:39:37 AM
Devil...fire...helloooooooooo! :icon_twisted:
Well they got a lil' taste of the fire already! :icon_twisted: ;D
Is it really fear? This thread has been going on for a long time now, and I've never seen the first sensible explanation for the type of thinking that leads one to make statements like the above. No matter how bad the situation is, somehow the deity gets "praised" for even the tiniest smidgen of good while getting a complete pass on the blame. I simply don't understand it.
Quote from: Locutus on January 26, 2010, 11:49:18 AM
Well they got a lil' taste of the fire already! :icon_twisted: ;D
Is it really fear? This thread has been going on for a long time now, and I've never seen the first sensible explanation for the type of thinking that leads one to make statements like the above. No matter how bad the situation is, somehow the deity gets "praised" for even the tiniest smidgen of good while getting a complete pass on the blame. I simply don't understand it.
Because it belies rational thought?
fear
I will amuse you guys and give you my take on it....it has been a while since I chimed in....
It is "MY" belief, that God, created EVERYTHING (ie universe and all living things) as we know it.
HE created man....for HIMSELF
HE created man....to have a genuine relationship with HIM.
HE created man....to love Him, worship Him, serve Him, and fellowship with Him.
He also HAD to give us free will....for us to ever begin to understand His Love for us, we have to know what our lives could be without HIM....so we live in a world, full of sin, (my definition of sin is the absence of God)...and we will ALWAYS be sinners until the day of Judgement....
BUT, He offered a solution, to those who simply believe that Jesus is the one and only Son of God...who Died on a cross as a final sacrifice for our sins...(lack of God)...that He arose and ascended unto Heaven...and THEN, He would have those, who understand the LOVE of God and WHY He has done what He has done..
getting to your real question.....
Why does He let some houses burn down?....becasue fire burns, water drowns, bullets penetrate bodies, diseases kill....
and I Do believe that God does, intervene in our human lives and affairs...He has shown His power at many times throughout history...many are documented in the Bible....such as Job.
He tells us;
"My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
He also says that:
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.
Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and depart from evil." Proverbs 3:5-7
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
"Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. "
Okay, that's it..............I'm done preaching, but you asked and I felt compelled to answer.....
so, bash away ;D
So he's basically a dick.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 26, 2010, 12:34:16 PM
So he's basically a dick.
to a non-believer.....yeah, I can see why you would think that....
Well if he does exist, he did burn these people's house down and cause an earthquake a couple of weeks ago. How is that not dick-like?
Quote from: Exterminator on January 26, 2010, 01:45:43 PM
Well if he does exist, he did burn these people's house down and cause an earthquake a couple of weeks ago. How is that not dick-like?
Especially if he is, as they believe, both omnipotent and omnipresent.
Well, again, it is 'My' take, that God created a world of 'cause and effect'... or that every effect has a cause....and we have consequences to our actions....starting back to when we first sinned with His first creation of man... that allowed suffering for following generations...but, God IS a God of wisdom and love who does give us a control of our suffering for those who seek Him in order to bring them to a deeper knowledge of Him...and only through this process that allows us to even begin to accept or trust that He has bigger and better plans for ALL of us who simply agree to HIS terms..to me, He is NOT a dick....WE are the dicks....
I'm not sure if this makes a lick of sense, but it is my best shot at putting this to my words and thoughts....
So it isn't your god's earth that is flawed and prone to tectonic plate shifts but earthquakes are something caused by the people that 'free will' could have prevented? Really?
Quote from: Exterminator on January 26, 2010, 03:23:46 PM
So it isn't your god's earth that is flawed and prone to tectonic plate shifts but earthquakes are something caused by the people that 'free will' could have prevented? Really?
No, that is not what I meant anyway.....I see it, as God, at one time created a "perfect" earth, that was free from flaws and prone to plate shifts....just as man, himself had "perfect" bodies...and because of "sin"...(the absence of God)...natural laws and physics NOW controls the creations....
so, maybe it is a YES then....I suppose, IF, Man had not disobeyed God's "Original" laws...none of this would have happened, but, I think this ALL HAD to happen, for MAN to realize what life is like without GOD...
I think that sums up my "beliefs" on this quite well... :spooked:
So the earth sinned and became imperfect or people sinned which made the earth imperfect? WTF?
Quote from: Exterminator on January 26, 2010, 03:39:31 PM
So the earth sinned and became imperfect or people sinned which made the earth imperfect? WTF?
okay, you are making me work for this one aren't you?
I think, Gods took his hands, (for the most part) off...of what would/could have been for man in "paradise"....but, because of man's decision.....all of God's perfection was at the mercy of man, and the natural course of the universe set forth.....
I'm getting a headache...
Splain the dinosaurs then.
Quote from: Palehorse on January 26, 2010, 04:29:41 PM
Splain the dinosaurs then.
Screw the dinosaurs. I'd just like an explanation of how "God is good" in light of the house fire. :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on January 26, 2010, 04:29:41 PM
Splain the dinosaurs then.
are you referring to the Behemoth and the Leviathan, that are described in the old testaments?
Quote from: Locutus on January 26, 2010, 04:46:28 PM
Screw the dinosaurs. I'd just like an explanation of how "God is good" in light of the house fire. :biggrin:
God IS good.....to those who have faith in Him...that is as about as far as I can explain it.......I don't have a link or a mathematical formula to support it....it is just MY answer.
It just seems to me, if your god wants praise and adoration for the good stuff, she would be well advised to provide it a bit more often. And any god who claims omnipotence and expects "Hallelujah!" for the good stuff had better be prepared to take "You prick!" for the bad stuff.
Quote from: LOsborne on January 26, 2010, 07:35:48 PM
It just seems to me, if your god wants praise and adoration for the good stuff, she would be well advised to provide it a bit more often. And any god who claims omnipotence and expects "Hallelujah!" for the good stuff had better be prepared to take "You prick!" for the bad stuff.
Created a perfect world? When? Satan, disobedient robots (adam and eve), angels that cavorted with earth women, and those all too imperfect humans that came along. It wasn't perfect and he destroyed it, knowing he had "failed" and made a mistake (oops, not infallible).
Of course, none of it is real, none of it ever happened and we can thank black holes and super novae for our imperfect existence and not some "creator", perfect or otherwise. Now, what perfect creator would destroy his own creation for "his" mistakes, not theirs? Goofy.
Genesis 6
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
By T. Keung Hui - Staff writer
A Wake County middle school teacher has been suspended following complaints about disparaging comments she made about her class, Christianity and Southern culture on her Facebook page.
Melissa Hussain, an eighth-grade teacher at West Lake Middle School in Apex, wrote on her Facebook page that it was a "hate crime" that students left a Bible on her desk and how she "was able to shame her kids" over the incident. Her Facebook page included comments from friends saying that the parents of Hussain's students were "bigoted, stupid and uncaring."
Some parents were angry that she was allowed to stay in the classroom, leading them to complain to school board members on Friday. Hussain was later told to leave her classroom on Friday and is not back at the school.
Greg Thomas, a Wake schools' spokesman, said Hussain has been suspended with pay. But he said he couldn't discuss the reason for the suspension because of employee confidentiality rules. School administrators say they are still investigating the situation.
Hussain could not be immediately reached for comment today.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/counties/wake_county/story/340805.html
:rolleyes:
Nothing like those bible thumpin' idiots in Cackalacky.
Hate to say this but the teacher should not have shamed the class or made the comments on FB. She could have handled it differently.
Quote from: Locutus on February 16, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
By T. Keung Hui - Staff writer
A Wake County middle school teacher has been suspended following complaints about disparaging comments she made about her class, Christianity and Southern culture on her Facebook page.
Melissa Hussain, an eighth-grade teacher at West Lake Middle School in Apex, wrote on her Facebook page that it was a "hate crime" that students left a Bible on her desk and how she "was able to shame her kids" over the incident. Her Facebook page included comments from friends saying that the parents of Hussain's students were "bigoted, stupid and uncaring."
Some parents were angry that she was allowed to stay in the classroom, leading them to complain to school board members on Friday. Hussain was later told to leave her classroom on Friday and is not back at the school.
Greg Thomas, a Wake schools' spokesman, said Hussain has been suspended with pay. But he said he couldn't discuss the reason for the suspension because of employee confidentiality rules. School administrators say they are still investigating the situation.
Hussain could not be immediately reached for comment today.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/counties/wake_county/story/340805.html
:rolleyes:
Nothing like those bible thumpin' idiots in Cackalacky.
Quote from: me on February 16, 2010, 12:06:40 PM
Hate to say this but the teacher should not have shamed the class or made the comments on FB. She could have handled it differently.
Why should she not have shamed the class? From reading further on this, it appears that the only comment she made on facebook was that it was a hate crime and she shamed the class. Most of the anti-xtian, offensive comments were made by her friends.
Moreover, what I think is in play here is an outright setup of this teacher by the students which was encouraged by their fundie, ignorant ass parents. These children were being disruptive to the class by asking questions about "God" during evolution lessons (again probably encouraged by their parents), reading the Bible instead of doing their schoolwork, etc. When do we stop catering to dumbasses in this country who have God on the brain?
Here's more on the story from another article:
Quote
Parents said the situation escalated after a student put a postcard of Jesus on Hussain's desk that the teacher threw in the trash. Parents also said Hussain sent to the office students who, during a lesson about evolution, asked about the role of God in creation.
On her Facebook page, Hussain wrote about students spreading rumors that she was a Jesus hater. She complained about her students wearing Jesus T-shirts and singing "Jesus Loves Me." She objected to students reading the Bible instead of doing class work.
But Annette Balint, whose daughter is in Hussain's class, said the students have the right to wear those shirts and sing "Jesus Loves Me," a long-time Sunday School staple. She said the students were reading the Bible during free time in class.
"She doesn't have to be a professing Christian to be in the classroom," Balint said. "But she can't go the other way and not allow God to be mentioned."
Still think she wasn't targeted by a bunch of ignorant rednecks?
Imagine what would have happened if she had brought several copies of the Koran to the classroom and left them on her students' desks.
Wouldn't you think the parents should have taught their children religious tolerance, being x-tian and compassionate and all?
Quote from: followsthewolf on February 16, 2010, 12:20:25 PM
Imagine what would have happened if she had brought several copies of the Koran to the classroom and left them on her students' desks.
Wouldn't you think the parents should have taught their children religious tolerance, being x-tian and compassionate and all?
Exactly. These same retrograde retards would have been just as up in arms, if not more so. I'm constantly hearing that these aren't the "real Christians" when things like this are pointed out, and that "real Christians wouldn't do that", etc. Bullshit! Real Christians do this kind of shit every day in this country. :mad:
Who exactly said, that Christians are supposed to be tolerant?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2010, 12:36:44 PM
Who exactly said, that Christians are supposed to be tolerant?
That's the point. They're not tolerant. This is why religion has been, is, and continues to be one of the most vile memes ever. Ignorance begets ignorance begets ignorance.
IMHO both sides were in the wrong and it still should have been dealt with differently. Knowing how news reporting like is it's hard telling what has been left out of the story or embellished so without actually having first hand knowledge of what went on who can really say where the fault lies?
being "politically correct" and "tolerant" is just a couple of reasons WHY we are in the shape we are in today...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2010, 12:36:44 PM
Who exactly said, that Christians are supposed to be tolerant?
Wasn't there something about compassion, etc. that was the big difference between the old testament and the new testament?
Or am I just dreaming about the idea that jesus said to "Turn the other cheek" and all that there kind of stuff?
That's an idea I got from sunday school, originally.
don't get me wrong compassion and tolerance is very important, and I was saying that a little tounge and cheek, but being tolerant to God's word can be very conflicting to being tolerant in today's world.
I think sometimes we need to be a little more Intolerant to what is being demanded by today's politically correct crowd.....as a goal, we ALL should try to be intolerant to sin....or not accept what we KNOW to be wrong, just to satisfy others as to not offend anyone....
for me there is right and there is wrong....and toting a fine line of being tolerant and intolerant is always a task...
sorry, I'm rambling and taking this off track, but the bottom line is GOD does NOT suck!!!...we just don't have to tolerate certain things.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2010, 12:36:44 PM
Who exactly said, that Christians are supposed to be tolerant?
I believe that was Jesus. Something about "he who is without sin casting the first stone,"
capisce?
Doesn't that depend on which version of the bible you read?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2010, 12:48:55 PM
being "politically correct" and "tolerant" is just a couple of reasons WHY we are in the shape we are in today...
Yea, those nasty negroes have really gotten out of control and gays wanting the same rights are driving millions of christian couples to become homosexuals...
Of course, all tongue in cheek, but I think that we have been way too tolerant of the religious nutjobs who "preach tolerance", but have no idea what it is.
Okay I will post my two cents now. My elementary school students can choose to go to this particular middle school and most do. This school used to be an "application" school so they basically could tell you no if they didn't like your address. The parent mentality has not changed.
My coworker has a child in one of her classes and received the emails in question. Number 1, she is the THIRD teacher in that class this year. Coincidence? My coworker's son also said she is the only one who has taught them anything. She stays after school for tutoring, comes in early for tutoring, etc... She is a model teacher. She was doing her job! She wasn't teaching evolution because she thought in her opinion she should. She was teaching curriculum.
The mob mentality of these parents and children began before the Facebook remark was made. The Got Jesus? t-shirts and the yelling out in class had already begun. All of this being fueled by the parents as you can tell by the quote made from one of the ignorant bunch. The reason it escalated was 1. She sent out an email to all 120 of her student's parents letting them know that she had recently posted new grades on her online grade book so they could check it out. She didn't hide the email addresses like she should have of all those parents and one jack ass thought it would be great to email all of these parents and start a religious war with the teacher. 2. The facebook remark said something to the tune of "Can't wait to meet with Christ boy and his parents tomorrow." Her acquaintances responses were seemingly worse than her original posting. Why she doesn't have full privacy on her facebook is beyond me.
Also one of the arguments later starting from this parent was the next unit was based on Global Warming. So basically they are pissed because she's muslim, pissed because she is doing her job, and pissed that they are repubs and hate science. It is all bullshit!
If I were that teacher and I was permanently let go, I would press slander suits on those families and discrimination suits on the school system and the administration of the school because they let this go on. I would not stop until I was heard!
Thanks for posting that Kimmi. Makes me wonder if this would have happened if she had been of American heritage as bad as that sounds.
Quote from: kimmi on February 16, 2010, 09:13:09 PM
Okay I will post my two cents now. My elementary school students can choose to go to this particular middle school and most do. This school used to be an "application" school so they basically could tell you no if they didn't like your address. The parent mentality has not changed.
My coworker has a child in one of her classes and received the emails in question. Number 1, she is the THIRD teacher in that class this year. Coincidence? My coworker's son also said she is the only one who has taught them anything. She stays after school for tutoring, comes in early for tutoring, etc... She is a model teacher. She was doing her job! She wasn't teaching evolution because she thought in her opinion she should. She was teaching curriculum.
The mob mentality of these parents and children began before the Facebook remark was made. The Got Jesus? t-shirts and the yelling out in class had already begun. All of this being fueled by the parents as you can tell by the quote made from one of the ignorant bunch. The reason it escalated was 1. She sent out an email to all 120 of her student's parents letting them know that she had recently posted new grades on her online grade book so they could check it out. She didn't hide the email addresses like she should have of all those parents and one jack ass thought it would be great to email all of these parents and start a religious war with the teacher. 2. The facebook remark said something to the tune of "Can't wait to meet with Christ boy and his parents tomorrow." Her acquaintances responses were seemingly worse than her original posting. Why she doesn't have full privacy on her facebook is beyond me.
Also one of the arguments later starting from this parent was the next unit was based on Global Warming. So basically they are pissed because she's muslim, pissed because she is doing her job, and pissed that they are repubs and hate science. It is all bullshit!
If I were that teacher and I was permanently let go, I would press slander suits on those families and discrimination suits on the school system and the administration of the school because they let this go on. I would not stop until I was heard!
Kimmi -- thumbs up.
Do what you gotta do, girl.
If "God" in the public classroom drives this much conflict, what do you suppose it will drive in government?
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 11:04:57 AM
If "God" in the public classroom drives this much conflict, what do you suppose it will drive in government?
give me an example of what you mean, God in government.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 11:27:40 AM
give me an example of what you mean, God in government.
Just look at the divisions it drives surrounding the posting of the 10 commandments and the utilization of the phrase "In God We Trust" on our currency!
Given this ruling, the WCPSS should be thinking twice about pursuing action against this teacher.
(Feb. 16) -- Katherine Evans wanted everyone to know: Ms. Phelps was the worst English teacher she'd ever had.
So Evans, a Florida high school senior and honors student, posted a Facebook page to publicly criticize the teacher. Two months later, though, Evans was suspended for cyberbullying the teacher with her very precisely named group, "Ms. Sarah Phelps is the worst teacher I've ever had," on the social-networking site.
On Monday, a federal judge ruled that Evans, now a 19-year-old sophomore at the University of Florida, can sue her former principal, Peter Bayer, for suspending her, saying that her Facebook page is protected by free speech. Evans is asking that the three-day suspension in 2007 be cleared from her academic record.
Though Evans' case is far from over, it's clear that the First Amendment seems to have won precedence over the fight against cyberbullying. And many say the case is likely to shape the legal debates over free speech on the Web.
Maria Kayanan of the Florida branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, one of Evans' lawyers, called the ruling a victory for free speech on the Internet. "It upholds the principle that the right to freedom of speech and expression in America does not depend on the technology used to convey opinions and ideas," she told The New York Times.
In his opinion, Judge Barry Garber said the Facebook page is protected under the First Amendment because it wasn't violent. "It was an opinion of a student about a teacher that was published off-campus, did not cause any disruption on-campus, and was not lewd, vulgar, threatening or advocating illegal or dangerous behavior," he wrote.
On Twitter, the reaction to the judge's ruling was unsurprisingly supportive of Evans. "These academic thugs really believe [they] own the world," one man wrote Monday, in a clear reference to school officials.
The debate over cyberbullying is an intense one. Across the country, threatening speech made by students online has sometimes ended in violence. In Massachusetts, for example, school officials are blaming cyberbullying for the death of 17-year-old Phoebe Prince. The high school student, who had recently moved from Ireland, committed suicide last month after being branded an "Irish slut" on Facebook.
More recently, in Newburyport, Mass., last week, three 14-year-olds were charged with identity theft for allegedly creating a fake Facebook page to bully a classmate they thought was an outcast and too smart, police said.
The most notorious case of cyberbullying happened in 2006, when Lori Drew, a Missouri woman, posed as a teenage boy named "Josh" and befriended 13-year-old Megan Meier on MySpace. After about a month, Drew ended the friendship and sent Meier malicious messages. "You are a bad person and everybody hates you," she wrote. "The world would be a better place without you."
Meier, who was already suffering from depression, hanged herself. When prosecutors charged Drew with violating MySpace's terms of service, bloggers became concerned that free speech on the Internet would be limited. But Drew's conviction on misdemeanor counts of accessing a computer without authorization was overturned last year.
Across the Web, bloggers agreed with Garber when he said Evans' Facebook page was offensive, not dangerous.
At the Business Insider, Erin Geiger Smith said it was "difficult to see how, aside from technology, it's any different than a student who writes a note at home (which is where Evans created the site) whining about a disagreement with their teacher." Smith says it's a clear case of the First Amendment at work. "If she had done it at school and it was disruptive, that would be different," Smith wrote. "But if it's an outside-of-school activity that remains opinion-based (i.e., isn't slanderous), then this is just a byproduct of technology and the First Amendment."
The New York Times reports that the case could go to trial this spring.
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/judge-students-facebook-page-is-protected-by-free-speech/19359849
Also, I ran across some printouts online of the teacher's Facebook pages. Obviously, someone took the time to print them out and hand them over to the press. I read through the comments and I didn't see anything that rose to a level that would require disciplinary action against the teacher. I've attached a PDF file of the Facebook printouts to this post. For those unfamiliar with Facebook, you must read from the bottom up to see the posts in chronological order.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 11:52:11 AM
Just look at the divisions it drives surrounding the posting of the 10 commandments and the utilization of the phrase "In God We Trust" on our currency!
I don't think it has caused any REAL emotional trauma by it being there.....the majority of folks are okay with it. It IS part of the American Heritage......and blah, blah, blah...........
I don't even care to argue it anymore......I will ALWAYS believe it is important to NEVER forget, the role that God played in building this nation...according to our forefathers.
God does NOT suck...
Kimmi, merely posted "her two cents"....and I concur with her.
I would encourage everyone, including you HH, to download the read the comments straight from the page. This is a witch hunt by the fundies against this teacher. Pure, flat out, and simple. There was nothing there that even remotely rose to the level of requiring disciplinary action. The PDF is attached to my previous post.
Don't worry.
The parents will tie her into a chair that is suspended over a pool of water.
Then they'll drop her into it.
If she is pure, GAWD will keep her from drowning.
If she drowns, then she was impure and deserved to die.
I mean, what she did is certainly deserving of the ultimate test, right?
Brought to you courtesy of the residents of the Massachusetts Colony.
:biggrin:
;D Thanks FTW for the afternoon funny!
Well at this point I wouldn't put her suspension possibilities on hold. Our new board is tearing through this school system and trampling everything in its path. They make hasty decisions which in turn led to our Superintendent to resign last night stating that "based upon personal and obligatory considerations, it is clear to me that I cannot, in all good conscience, continue to serve as Superintendent." This ship is going to sink faster than the Titanic!
Paraphrasing Mark Twain:
Ninety-seven percent of the people in this country have some intelligence. The remaining three percent are members of a school board.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 12:18:07 PM
I don't think it has caused any REAL emotional trauma by it being there.....the majority of folks are okay with it. It IS part of the American Heritage......and blah, blah, blah...........
I don't even care to argue it anymore......I will ALWAYS believe it is important to NEVER forget, the role that God played in building this nation...according to our forefathers.
God does NOT suck...
Because you are full of shit. AND, because you are totally ignorant of our Constitutional Republic and probably a traitor to it in your mob-rule mentality. God didn't do a godamned thing in building this nation; freethinkers did, our forefathers.
The majority assholes were all about slavery and jim crow, but fortunately, law prevailed over those fucking mobs. You really are one of those son's a bitches.
If god exist, he sure is doing a bad job. Any farmer in the world takes better care of his live stock than god is taking care of his flock.
I have never seen a prayer answered, But I have seen a lot of people plead, bow, cry and ask him for something and their prayers do not work. I have seen people I thought really deserved it.
I do not believe in miracles. Never seen any parts of the body that were lost renewed. Should be an easy job for God to replace an eye, lost arm, leg for a fact no one has seen it done, since he was to have walked on the earth since 1,975 year ago I have not seen any person survive a terminal disease except with good medical care and medicine. I work out in a rehab center and I see these poor children who are brain damaged, crippled and with twisted limbs and I would ask the question, if I believed is, WHY!
Why would God put the snake in the garden of Eden with a couple who knew nothing. Then cast them out of the garden of Eden with a sin upon them and all of their children and all of their children and and all of their children through all time. Then he had himself killed to pay for for all of those sinners, who would not have been sinners if he had not made them sin. Don't make sense
What I would like for the believers to do is, go to YouTube and type in George Carlin and his feeling of religion and god. He has the best answers to what is god is better than any way I can explain it. The Troll.
Quote from: The Troll on March 14, 2010, 07:09:00 PM
If god exist, he sure is doing a bad job. Any farmer in the world takes better care of his live stock than god is taking care of his flock.
I have never seen a prayer answered, But I have seen a lot of people plead, bow, cry and ask him for something and their prayers do not work. I have seen people I thought really deserved it.
I do not believe in miracles. Never seen any parts of the body that were lost renewed. Should be an easy job for God to replace an eye, lost arm, leg for a fact no one has seen it done, since he was to have walked on the earth since 1,975 year ago I have not seen any person survive a terminal disease except with good medical care and medicine. I work out in a rehab center and I see these poor children who are brain damaged, crippled and with twisted limbs and I would ask the question, if I believed is, WHY!
Why would God put the snake in the garden of Eden with a couple who knew nothing. Then cast them out of the garden of Eden with a sin upon them and all of their children and all of their children and and all of their children through all time. Then he had himself killed to pay for for all of those sinners, who would not have been sinners if he had not made them sin. Don't make sense
What I would like for the believers to do is, go to YouTube and type in George Carlin and his feeling of religion and god. He has the best answers to what is god is better than any way I can explain it. The Troll.
George pretty much summed it all up as; a coin toss. That is all prayer is. Random luck. Penn Jillette summed the miracles up; there are almost 300 million Americans and that creates the probability of a million-to-one oddities turning up about 300 times a day. Miracles? Nope. Random shit? Yes.
Dan Foster, I like your brain, it isn't dead like the old fowl, the hawk. and little old grandma "ME" I came from a mother, who with her churchliness drove me and my sisters out. :yes:
The Anderson Library have a sound recording, Cd's, of The God Delusion by Dawkins, I just finished while working out. It is really good. I think I have someone who thinks a little like me, not like "ME". If you get my drift. :rolleyes:
The Troll :)
Quote from: The Troll on March 15, 2010, 11:35:53 PM
Dan Foster, I like your brain, it isn't dead like the old fowl, the hawk. and little old grandma "ME" I came from a mother, who with her churchliness drove me and my sisters out. :yes:
The Anderson Library have a sound recording, Cd's, of The God Delusion by Dawkins, I just finished while working out. It is really good. I think I have someone who thinks a little like me, not like "ME". If you get my drift. :rolleyes:
The Troll :)
Dawkins is a great choice. He is especially well suited to debunk the creationists, and their pseudosciences, with scientific facts.
Quote from: The Troll on March 15, 2010, 11:35:53 PM
Dan Foster, I like your brain....
THAT, to me, SAY's it all.... :yes: :razz:
Henry, thanks for the baby Robin remark. After reading your shit in all of these topics. If I really needed help, to stand behind my back and ward off evil doers. To share a foxhole with, I would choose Dan Foster, because his mind isn't clouded with religious hatred.
You know, back in the old days, the Knights would face his enemies with the shield and sword in front of him and do battle. But dealing with you and and your ilk. You must hold the shield over your ass and keeping your sword in from of yourself. Because you guys are sure ass biters. Enough said. That's my ruling and and that's that.
The Troll :wink: :smile: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :yes:
What I would like all you non-believers to do is to not worry about the believers. You aren't going to change anything by being hateful towards their choice of faith.
Pariann and Ms Eggo.
My pretty high maintenance women, just kidding, and I want you to stay that way. Why do I hate the far right Christan taliban religious leaders. Well, there was two time in my live that I thought I was going to die. After these two times I found, I am not afraid to die. I really can't believe it myself. I have thought about it many time. I am not afraid of dying and there very few things that scare me.
But I will tell you one thing, I am scared to death of these far right wing, teabagging, taliban Christan leader. I want you to goggle in, "far right religious leaders plans for America" Look what Terry Randall, James Dodson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins and many, many more of the religious nuts have planed for us men and oh my god (small g, just a term.) the plans for you women. I feel they are as powerful as god's most powerful angel the devil. I don't believe all of this religious history, but some do.
First, they want to bring us back the Dark Ages, the Inquisitions, the Puritan way of life where the uses the stakes for burning witches and the dunking stool for witches, which were all women. Not many men were killed. They want to go back the to the Christian marriage were you belong to the man and he controlls everything you do. More or less like a cow, you cook the food and bear the children and if he want more women he can have them. Does that sound like any man you know.
They will want to take your makeup from you. Your jewelry, your slacks and blue jeans and put you back into long dresses. They will want to take you vote away from you. Most of all they want to take your right to do with your body what you want. Get raped, you will be required to have that baby and if you get an abortion, Terry Randell, Quote: I will see to that, that woman and that abortion doctor put to death. So help me God.
These crazy religious zealots got Prohibition and you see what that got us. But what really gets me, these same people, do not want to pay taxes. But, they will give the church 10% of their gross income. Some new churches want 20% of your gross, for nothing, but maybe your peace of mind. Only in America! They are like a camel trying to get into you tent. First the nose, then the whole head, then the body, tearing up you tent, getting scared and running off your tent into the night, leaving you with nothing. I hope, I made you perfectly clear how it feel about these nuts.
The Troll ;) :) :smile: :yes:
So Pariann and
Quote from: pariann on March 20, 2010, 09:16:45 AM
What I would like all you non-believers to do is to not worry about the believers. You aren't going to change anything by being hateful towards their choice of faith.
Hey, if they would keep their personal relationship with their deity to themselves, and not try to legislate their beliefs and customs into law, thereby forcing them upon each one of us, I would have no problem leaving them alone. But there isn't a chance of that ever happening. It's all about the power and greed for them. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on March 20, 2010, 08:42:46 PM
Hey, if they would keep their personal relationship with their deity to themselves, and not try to legislate their beliefs and customs into law, thereby forcing them upon each one of us, I would have no problem leaving them alone. But there isn't a chance of that ever happening. It's all about the power and greed for them. . .
Yup! I think that point has been made more than a few times around here too. :yes:
Try attacking those individuals then. The KNOWN zealots that hide behind Christianity while they attempt to wrest or wield the power.
Your every day Christian, such as is posting on this forum aren't to blame for those individuals. What I keep seeing on the forum are the Christian Joe's being attacked for their belief. Let them believe what they want. You ALL know that the public isn't voting these people into office. It's been shown more than once that who the politicians want in office is who makes it...not the voting atheists and Christians.
So again I would like to see all the non-believers leaving the believers alone, and go after the real problem. Fraudulent Christians.
Someone should read Under the Dome by Stephen King. He has a local town politician (character) that fits the bill perfectly. Christian by day, money hungry power wielding criminal by every other hour. King has the situation nailed down perfectly, the only thing missing is that the politician doesn't appear to be a closet gay as well.
Pariann, I really think you got me all wrong. Believe it when I say this. I don't have a problem with a person who has a good faith and practice it a good way and keep to theirselves about it. I have several good Chistians friends, THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE. But we don't talk about the Teabag Party or the Fox News and very little about the Republican Party and all of them are for a single payer health plan and with I do agree.
My problem is when these same people start to believing in Terry Randells and people like him. Right now, in the polls, 33% of the voters are Republican voters and have all of these far right wing Christain in it. It takes only takes 51% of the vote to win. In a three party race, the Democrats, the Republicans and the Teabag party race it takes only 34% to win. With Rupert Murdoch and his Fox News Network, O'Reilly, Hannity, and now Glen Beck, with the help of Dick Armey started the Teabag Party. Just think all Rupert and Dick needs is 34% of the vote to shove their agenda down our throats and I don't think you want to loose your woman's rights. Ms. Pariann it all about numbers and power. Like I have said in the past, I won't kneel and kiss their rings. It use to be when you meet the Pope, you kneeled and kissed his ring, I don't know about now.
Ms. Pariann you don't have to worry about the unbelievers and atheist, we really don't care what gods the religious worship. Just leave us and keep the believer's laws out of our business.
The Troll :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
Quote from: pariann on March 20, 2010, 10:23:11 PM
. . .
Someone should read Under the Dome by Stephen King. He has a local town politician (character) that fits the bill perfectly. Christian by day, money hungry power wielding criminal by every other hour. King has the situation nailed down perfectly, the only thing missing is that the politician doesn't appear to be a closet gay as well.
Have it, read it, and I see them everywhere. . .
Quote from: pariann on March 20, 2010, 09:16:45 AM
What I would like all you non-believers to do is to not worry about the believers. You aren't going to change anything by being hateful towards their choice of faith.
My only worry with the believers is their influence on the gov't, or infiltration, thereof. They can believe all they want, stand around and sway with their eyes closed, hands extended to heaven and pray like a son-of-a-bitch all day long, for all I care; as that is absolutely nothing but a waste of their time. It's when they want the gov't to do the same is where I draw the line. Oh yeah, as an equal opportunity atheist, they can pray five times a day with their face in someone else's ass on the carpet roll in front of them; again, a waste of their time, not mine.
We don't "bother" with religious people, but we are also not going to give them a pass on their bullshit. Any challenge to that is seen as "hateful" and a real tragedy of their delusional world view, but again, their problem not mine.
HALLELUJAH, HALLELUJAH, HALLELUJAH, :) ;D :smile: :biggrin: :biggrin: HALLELUJAH, HALLELUJAH HALLILUJAH 8) 8) 8) :) ;D :biggrin: :biggrin: :yes: :yes:
THE HEALTHCARE BILL PASSED, THE HEALTHCARE BILL PASSED. :wink: ;) :biggrin: :smile: :yes:
THE TROLL :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
Oh, and we wonder why people like Bill Maher call this a stupid country, and why the Europeans laugh at us. Take a few minutes and watch this one. I'm dedicating this one to Dan Foster! :rotfl: :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on April 09, 2010, 05:02:58 PM
Oh, and we wonder why people like Bill Maher call this a stupid country, and why the Europeans laugh at us. Take a few minutes and watch this one. I'm dedicating this one to Dan Foster! :rotfl: :biggrin:
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Quote from: Locutus on April 09, 2010, 05:02:58 PM
Oh, and we wonder why people like Bill Maher call this a stupid country, and why the Europeans laugh at us. Take a few minutes and watch this one. I'm dedicating this one to Dan Foster! :rotfl: :biggrin:
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Locutus, that piece of propaganda would make the Nazi propagandist Joseph Geobbels smile in his grave. Wouldn't he would have loved to have the technology to produce this pile of shit.
We have some people very near who would fall for the bullship hook, line and sinker. Sara Palin and Michell Bachman with Glen Beck would pray over this.
Thank for letting us know what evil Christains we have here in America. The first thing they would do is take all of the women's rights away from them and make the rest of us. Get on our knees and kiss their ring.
The troll, I'm not smiling now.
Indeed Troll! :yes:
I'm constantly amazed at the absolute poppycock that can be found on the Internet. That dumbass doesn't even know his own holy book if he's saying Obama may be the Antichrist. If I recall correctly, the bible says that the Antichrist is supposed to spring forth from a revived Roman empire. :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on April 09, 2010, 07:17:06 PM
Indeed Troll! :yes:
I'm constantly amazed at the absolute poppycock that can be found on the Internet. That dumbass doesn't even know his own holy book if he's saying Obama may be the Antichrist. If I recall correctly, the bible says that the Antichrist is supposed to spring forth from a revived Roman empire. :rotfl:
Gone "Dumb" because of English and Spelling Nazi's. :finger2:
:2cents: :azz: :preach: :jester: :sneaky: :pigfly: :bsflag: :salute:
BTW, the Judeo-Christian god still sucks, as do all other mythical deities. Just thought I would point that out. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on April 28, 2010, 01:15:27 AM
BTW, the Judeo-Christian god still sucks, as do all other mythical deities. Just thought I would point that out. :wink:
Locutus, I would like to know how you came to believe that religion is just smoke and mirrors and just plain bullshit.
I know that my mother's religiosity and her religious friends, burnt out her kids . I watch my dad go through his second marriage with another religious kook. Religion could be a form a insanity.
About 20 years I started studying the atheist side of the religion. Looking at all of the scientist and other very smart people that are atheist and for a sane person to believe all of the crap about God, can't be to bright.
Your story? The Troll, let's :pray:
If I recall correctly, the bible says that the Antichrist is supposed to spring forth from a revived Roman empire.
i don't know if the Italians are up to it. :-\
http://www.youtube.com/v/cQcE2dq3YD0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/v/MeSSwKffj9o
RIP George. You are missed.
LMAO!! This thread got bumped just in time for this:
(http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs264.snc3/27873_118154081557524_113267462046186_93175_3884190_n.jpg)
Seems the Muslims are lil' pizzed off at Facebook for allowing a group called "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" which is scheduled for May 20th. The Pakistani government has blocked all access to Facebook because of it.
:rotfl:
I say "Fuck 'em!" Don't like it? Don't read it.
Quote from: Locutus on May 19, 2010, 05:30:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/MeSSwKffj9o
RIP George. You are missed.
I far as I'm concerned, George say it all. How do intelligent adults believe all of the religious, sorry, I can't say it anyother way, BULLSHIT!
If there is a God, he or she is doing one of a hell of a poor job. Over in the River View Hospital Rehab center, I see all of the poor retarded and crippled children and I say. WHY? :'(
Quote from: The Troll on May 19, 2010, 06:05:04 PM
I far as I'm concerned, George say it all. How do intelligent adults believe all of the religious, sorry, I can't say it anyother way, BULLSHIT!
If there is a God, he or she is doing one of a hell of a poor job. Over in the River View Hospital Rehab center, I see all of the poor retarded and crippled children and I say. WHY? :'(
The religious don't ask the "WHY?" questions, so they remain ignorant in their delusion. For instance, why would the "creator of the universe" need a human sacrifice so that really weak minded people could live forever? Answer: there is a universal blood for sin banking system. Need so much blood to forgive particular sins, right? Sounds pretty damned stupid, doesn't it? However, they never ask themselves the simplest of questions and will remain forever trapped in their self delusion (as adults), or brainwashed as children. Sad, isn't it?
Quote from: Locutus on May 19, 2010, 05:47:22 PM
LMAO!! This thread got bumped just in time for this:
(http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs264.snc3/27873_118154081557524_113267462046186_93175_3884190_n.jpg)
Seems the Muslims are lil' pizzed off at Facebook for allowing a group called "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" which is scheduled for May 20th. The Pakistani government has blocked all access to Facebook because of it.
:rotfl:
I say "Fuck 'em!" Don't like it? Don't read it.
Fuck allah, fuck moosehamegg, fuck jehovah, fuck jesus, fuck yaweh, fuck moses, fuck them all. I wish I could get online to draw some really good pics of all. Now, having said all that, it's all fucking vapor, so pakistan, go fuck yourself. Fuck you, you fucking fucks. Sorry, just had to get that out of my system ;>)
LMFAO!!
CANDIA, N.H. — A Catholic priest in New Hampshire plans to visit a Candia water park to see if he can see the face of Jesus in the park's lifeguard flag. The owner of the Liquid Planet Water Park said that when the flag was unfurled earlier this season staff saw what looked to them like a shadowy image of Jesus Christ. Kevin Dumont said he had been praying for a miracle to improve business.
Since the flag was opened, there have been a string of perfect days and business is up 200 percent.
The New Hampshire Union Leader said Father Volney "Von" DeRosia from St. Joseph's Church in Epping will visit the park Thursday to try to determine if the image could have been intentionally fabricated.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38153106/ns/travel
:rotfl:
Quote from: pariann on May 09, 2007, 09:46:05 PM
Not to mention that other thought, "God always answers your prayers, sometimes, he just says No."
I can't believe you would say that. I have read your posts from way, way back. And form what I read, you sure had more than your share of bad luck. It looks to me, all he could say to you was No, No, No and more No.
I know that if some person treated you the way God, if he existed, has, you would want to vist their town and look them up and give them hell.
I just don't know how much crap people will put up with.
Quote from: The Troll on July 08, 2010, 07:47:09 PM
I can't believe you would say that. I have read your posts from way, way back. And form what I read, you sure had more than your share of bad luck. It looks to me, all he could say to you was No, No, No and more No.
I know that if some person treated you the way God, if he existed, has, you would want to vist their town and look them up and give them hell.
I just don't know how much crap people will put up with.
" I just don't know how much crap people will put up with." Obviously, quite a bit; the draw of cult life and the subsequent self delusion that accompanies all of them, are a strong force against logic, reason, morality, and humaneness. That all goes out the window and they keep coming back for more as they strive to please the invisible master of their universe, continually told they aren't worthy of the salvation they seek. Stockholm syndrome is a fitting description of these tortured "souls". Willing victims, all (if over the age of 12).
(CNN) -- In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.
The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.
"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN's Rick Sanchez earlier this week.
Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.
Muslims and many other Christians -- including some evangelicals -- are fighting the initiative.
The church launched a YouTube channel to disseminate its messages.
"I mean ask yourself, have you ever really seen a really happy Muslim? As they're on the way to Mecca? As they gather together in the mosque on the floor? Does it look like a real religion of joy?" Jones asks in one of his YouTube posts.
"No, to me it looks like a religion of the devil."
The Islamic advocacy group Council on American-Islamic Relations called on Muslims and others to host "Share the Quran" dinners to educate the public during the monthlong fast of Ramadan beginning in August. In a news release, the group announced a campaign to give out 100,000 copies of the Quran to local, state and national leaders.
"American Muslims and other people of conscience should support positive educational efforts to prevent the spread of Islamophobia," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper in the release.
The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions.
"The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths. God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect," it said in the statement.
Dove's Facebook page, set up for the September event, has more than 1,600 fans.
"Eternal fire is the only destination the Quran can lead people to, so we want to put the Quran in it's [sic] place -- the fire!" the page says.
But another Facebook group with more than 3,100 fans says it stands "against the disrespect and intolerance that these people have for the Muslim people" and encourages people to report Dove's page to Facebook.
Targeting another group it calls "godless," the Dove center is also hosting a protest against Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe, who is openly gay, on Monday at Gainesville's City Hall. The group previously fought -- unsuccessfully -- to derail Lowe's election campaign.
"We protest sexual perversion because the Bible protests it. ... What is acceptable to today's leadership becomes acceptable to tomorrow's society," the church says in its blog entry about the event.
Lowe and other government figures and media outlets received e-mails from the church about the event, The Gainesville Sun reported. Lowe isn't concerned with Monday's event.
"I've got other things to do," he said, The Sun reports.
On the outreach center's front lawn, alongside a sign reading "Aug. 2 Protest, No Homo Mayor, City Hall," stands not just one, but three signs bearing the slogan "Islam is of the Devil."
One of the signs -- one reading "Islam" on one side, "Devil" on the other -- was vandalized. On its blog last week, the church said the sign will be replaced.
"This is private property and vandalism is a crime here in America," the blog says. "In Islam, many actions that we consider to be crimes are encouraged, condoned or sheltered under Islamic teaching and practice, though. Another reason to burn a Quran."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html?hpt=Sbin
^^
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Those idiots can't seem to figure out that the Allah of their Quran and the Jehovah of the Christian Bible are one and the same.
Religion is rooted in stupidity.
Quote from: Locutus on July 31, 2010, 01:49:31 PM
(CNN) -- ... it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.
Call me a cynic, but I think this was initiated by a publishing company. Ya see, to burn a Quran, ya have to have one in your hands. How many of you do?
Quote from: LOsborne on July 31, 2010, 04:10:53 PM
Call me a cynic, but I think this was initiated by a publishing company. Ya see, to burn a Quran, ya have to have one in your hands. How many of you do?
Good point. :yes:
I was looking on their website and it appears those people are just about as nuts as the Fred Phelps people are.
http://www.doveworld.org/
These ass wipes are just as dangerous as the Muslims and the Taliban. These types of Christians want a dictatorship were they want to control everyone. You WILL BOW and kiss their ring and their cross.
I want no part of either religions. If is come to fighting the bastards, I'm sure willing to send them to their maker and their 72 virgins.
With all of the sucides bombers, you would think they would be running out of virgins.
Quote from: The Troll on July 31, 2010, 06:47:58 PM
These ass wipes are just as dangerous as the Muslims and the Taliban. These types of Christians want a dictatorship were they want to control everyone. You WILL BOW and kiss their ring and their cross.
I want no part of either religions. If is come to fighting the bastards, I'm sure willing to send them to their maker and their 72 virgins.
With all of the sucides bombers, you would think they would be running out of virgins.
There isn't any way to find 72 virgins, anywhere, unless you are a pedophile and it seems the catholics have cornered that market ;>)
Quote from: Locutus on July 31, 2010, 01:49:31 PM
(CNN) -- In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.
The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.
"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN's Rick Sanchez earlier this week.
Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.
Muslims and many other Christians -- including some evangelicals -- are fighting the initiative.
The church launched a YouTube channel to disseminate its messages.
"I mean ask yourself, have you ever really seen a really happy Muslim? As they're on the way to Mecca? As they gather together in the mosque on the floor? Does it look like a real religion of joy?" Jones asks in one of his YouTube posts.
"No, to me it looks like a religion of the devil."
The Islamic advocacy group Council on American-Islamic Relations called on Muslims and others to host "Share the Quran" dinners to educate the public during the monthlong fast of Ramadan beginning in August. In a news release, the group announced a campaign to give out 100,000 copies of the Quran to local, state and national leaders.
"American Muslims and other people of conscience should support positive educational efforts to prevent the spread of Islamophobia," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper in the release.
The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions.
"The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths. God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect," it said in the statement.
Dove's Facebook page, set up for the September event, has more than 1,600 fans.
"Eternal fire is the only destination the Quran can lead people to, so we want to put the Quran in it's [sic] place -- the fire!" the page says.
But another Facebook group with more than 3,100 fans says it stands "against the disrespect and intolerance that these people have for the Muslim people" and encourages people to report Dove's page to Facebook.
Targeting another group it calls "godless," the Dove center is also hosting a protest against Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe, who is openly gay, on Monday at Gainesville's City Hall. The group previously fought -- unsuccessfully -- to derail Lowe's election campaign.
"We protest sexual perversion because the Bible protests it. ... What is acceptable to today's leadership becomes acceptable to tomorrow's society," the church says in its blog entry about the event.
Lowe and other government figures and media outlets received e-mails from the church about the event, The Gainesville Sun reported. Lowe isn't concerned with Monday's event.
"I've got other things to do," he said, The Sun reports.
On the outreach center's front lawn, alongside a sign reading "Aug. 2 Protest, No Homo Mayor, City Hall," stands not just one, but three signs bearing the slogan "Islam is of the Devil."
One of the signs -- one reading "Islam" on one side, "Devil" on the other -- was vandalized. On its blog last week, the church said the sign will be replaced.
"This is private property and vandalism is a crime here in America," the blog says. "In Islam, many actions that we consider to be crimes are encouraged, condoned or sheltered under Islamic teaching and practice, though. Another reason to burn a Quran."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html?hpt=Sbin
Sorry, I left these guys off my Strategic Bomber list of targets...
(http://www.worldcorrespondents.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/dove_world_outreach_center_summer_2009_credit_gainesville_sun-300x208.jpg)
And ole' loony Donny Swaggart says a few choice words against Islam here too. He doesn't understand how ignorant all of that crap comes across. Oh, and he doesn't like Obama either.
http://www.youtube.com/v/N7Y4Gwyfz08
:rotfl:
He's fuckin' nuts. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on August 10, 2010, 06:55:45 PM
And ole' loony Donny Swaggart says a few choice words against Islam here too. He doesn't understand how ignorant all of that crap comes across. Oh, and he doesn't like Obama either.
http://www.youtube.com/v/N7Y4Gwyfz08
:rotfl:
He's fuckin' nuts. :yes:
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: HALLELUJAH :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
And more.....
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2qwfvnr.jpg)
:rotfl:
Anybody besides me planning on being here on May 22, 2011?? According to that loon, we have less than a year to go.
Weren't we all supposed to be history by now anyway? Several times in fact.
Yep!
Quote from: me on August 10, 2010, 07:01:12 PM
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: HALLELUJAH :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
Calling Henry Hawk. Oh Henry, you want to give a few paragraphs to defend the preacher. What he says, sound a lot like what you say. About Obama. Let's see you defend him. He claims to be a man of God.
Quote from: The Troll on August 10, 2010, 08:10:16 PM
Calling Henry Hawk. Oh Henry, you want to give a few paragraphs to defend the preacher. What he says, sound a lot like what you say. About Obama. Let's see you defend him. He claims to be a man of God.
Uh, why did you quote me and then address HH Troll?
Quote from: me on August 10, 2010, 08:32:19 PM
Uh, why did you quote me and then address HH Troll?
I like the way you used the smiley faces and besides you guys are twins hooked at the hip.
Why, you need something more to bitch about? I like it, so I used it. Soooooooooooo?
Quote from: The Troll on August 10, 2010, 08:10:16 PM
Calling Henry Hawk. Oh Henry, you want to give a few paragraphs to defend the preacher. What he says, sound a lot like what you say. About Obama. Let's see you defend him. He claims to be a man of God.
Did you listen to the whole thing Troll? ;D
Quote from: The Troll on August 10, 2010, 08:10:16 PM
Calling Henry Hawk. Oh Henry, you want to give a few paragraphs to defend the preacher. What he says, sound a lot like what you say. About Obama. Let's see you defend him. He claims to be a man of God.
first of all, dipshit, when have you EVER heard me talk like that?...........has anyone EVER heard my post ANYTHING like that?......I don't listen to TV evangelists....I never cared for swaggart, and until now, I didn't know he had a son who preached.....
Troll, just because I openly confess that I am a Christian, and I am proud to say so I don't mind adding.
I challenge anyone on here to link me to such idiotic bullcrap.......the problem is, you guys don't know diddly shit about what a Christian is....it is not a loudmouth who gets on TV and shouts his opinion of what THEY think God's will is....I have my very sound and strong beliefs.....what I don't like about Obama has NOTHING to do with religion.....I have NO idea how he believes or what he believes....I don't like him because of his socialistic agenda and his pompous attitude.....that is it. nothing more, nothing less.
again troll, what have I ever said on here, that sounds like this dipwad preacher?...
I will be waiting for your answer.......I think you are just blowing off like you usually do, speaking without getting your facts straight
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 10, 2010, 09:19:29 PM
?......I don't listen to TV evangelists....I never cared for swaggart, and until now, I didn't know he had a son who preached.....
Really? I used to watch his dad quite often (even watched the tearful confession about the prostitute) and I remember Donny Swaggart always being around in some way or another. I didn't know, until recently, that he had followed in his father's footsteps to that extent.
What I find interesting is that it's absolutely AMAZING how he's picked up on almost all of his father's mannerisms while preaching. Facial expressions, hand gestures, and everything. Although I wasn't around when Jimmy Swaggart was young, I'll bet that's an almost exact image of him when he was a younger preacher.
I'm not sure if you ever watched much, but the resemblance in mannerisms to his dad is striking. That's the first thing I picked up on while watching that clip.
he does look and sound alot like his dad.....both are kind of "over" evangelical in my opinion....I never cared for the stomping and yelling and fist shaking and when the crowd all starts getting too emotional over one man acting up.....not my cup of tea.
Well that's been their M.O. for years now. It appears that Jimmy has passed the torch now to Donnie as he's listed as a co-pastor on the Family Worship Center's website.
I have plenty of that crap in my background as a child. Most all of my dad's side of the family were Bible thumpin', pew jumpin', tongue speakin', Pentecostal Holiness people. That's how they all are and if I recall correctly, Jimmy Swaggart was a Pentecostal before they kicked him out due to the whole prostitute situation. The pastor gets up in the pulpit, gets all crazy, and the whole church goes berserk. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on August 10, 2010, 10:17:08 PM
Well that's been their M.O. for years now. It appears that Jimmy has passed the torch now to Donnie as he's listed as a co-pastor on the Family Worship Center's website.
I have plenty of that crap in my background as a child. Most all of my dad's side of the family were Bible thumpin', pew jumpin', tongue speakin', Pentecostal Holiness people. That's how they all are and if I recall correctly, Jimmy Swaggart was a Pentecostal before they kicked him out due to the whole prostitute situation. The pastor gets up in the pulpit, gets all crazy, and the whole church goes berserk. :yes:
....and they are all bat shit crazy, period.
Quote from: dan foster on August 11, 2010, 12:19:45 AM
....and they are all bat shit crazy, period.
Indeed they are Dan. That's why I distanced myself from that shit a LONG time ago. Education, and the casting off of superstition, is a wonderful thing.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 10, 2010, 09:19:29 PM
first of all, dipshit, when have you EVER heard me talk like that?...........has anyone EVER heard my post ANYTHING like that?......I don't listen to TV evangelists....I never cared for swaggart, and until now, I didn't know he had a son who preached.....
Troll, just because I openly confess that I am a Christian, and I am proud to say so I don't mind adding.
I challenge anyone on here to link me to such idiotic bullcrap.......the problem is, you guys don't know diddly shit about what a Christian is....it is not a loudmouth who gets on TV and shouts his opinion of what THEY think God's will is....I have my very sound and strong beliefs.....what I don't like about Obama has NOTHING to do with religion.....I have NO idea how he believes or what he believes....I don't like him because of his socialistic agenda and his pompous attitude.....that is it. nothing more, nothing less.
again troll, what have I ever said on here, that sounds like this dipwad preacher?...
I will be waiting for your answer.......I think you are just blowing off like you usually do, speaking without getting your facts straight
Oh, to the one who was in diapers when Bob Rock was mayor. Diaper Wipe, it is called tweeking, wihich is what you and your twin is so good at.
I got to say your not that bad. If you will remember, all I asked you to do was defend him. Need a kleenex, cry baby.
But there is one question, please explain now you think Obama is Pompous. I wish he was in some ways. I would like him to get a little more back bone and stand up the these lazy, lieing Republcans and treat them just like they treated the Democrats when they had control of the government. Shove them to the side of the road and get this country back on the road to recovery. That George W. and his band of thieves drove the country into the ditch.
Quote from: The Troll on August 11, 2010, 09:02:01 AM
Oh, to the one who was in diapers when Bob Rock was mayor. Diaper Wipe, it is called tweeking, wihich is what you and your twin is so good at.
I got to say your not that bad. If you will remember, all I asked you to do was defend him. Need a kleenex, cry baby.
But there is one question, please explain now you think Obama is Pompous. I wish he was in some ways. I would like him to get a little more back bone and stand up the these lazy, lieing Republcans and treat them just like they treated the Democrats when they had control of the government. Shove them to the side of the road and get this country back on the road to recovery. That George W. and his band of thieves drove the country into the ditch.
Amen, brother Troll. The real nazi's tried to destroy the Constitution, broke International Treaties as traitors to this country, and gave the gov't away by the hands full to corporate America. Not only does Obama need to be more pompous, he needs to prosecute the traitors. Until then, I won't support him, again.
Quote from: dan foster on August 12, 2010, 09:35:50 PM
Amen, brother Troll. The real nazi's tried to destroy the Constitution, broke International Treaties as traitors to this country, and gave the gov't away by the hands full to corporate America. Not only does Obama need to be more pompous, he needs to prosecute the traitors. Until then, I won't support him, again.
You surly wouldn''t vote for any of the present "Republican canidates" How about Newt or Palin or Huckleberry the preacher or maybe if they hurry, they maybe get Danny Boy Quail's son to run. :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on August 13, 2010, 09:20:01 AM
You surly wouldn''t vote for any of the present "Republican canidates" How about Newt or Palin or Huckleberry the preacher or maybe if they hurry, they maybe get Danny Boy Quail's son to run. :biggrin:
Just this week we had a logical Christian say that logical Christians didn't believe that Satan was a powerfull as God here on earth.
Hell, when I was a kid, I was taught that the devil could make you go anything at any time. That's why you had to pray and pray and pray and kiss God ass many times a day to keep Satan off of you.
I surly wasn't the only one that was told that, was I.
Quote from: The Troll on August 11, 2010, 09:02:01 AMOh, to the one who was in diapers when Bob Rock was mayor. Diaper Wipe, it is called tweeking, which is what you and your twin is so good at. I got to say your not that bad. If you will remember, all I asked you to do was defend him. Need a Kleenex, cry baby. But there is one question, please explain now you think Obama is Pompous. I wish he was in some ways. I would like him to get a little more back bone and stand up the these lazy, lieing Republicans and treat them just like they treated the Democrats when they had control of the government. Shove them to the side of the road and get this country back on the road to recovery. That George W. and his band of thieves drove the country into the ditch.
PC Hawk, I waiting for your answer, What make you think Obama is Pompous? I just can't see it. I talked to some of the people I know and they think, if he anything, he's a candy-ass. Because he hasn't treated the Republican Party for the Cancer it really is. They think he need to get tougher. So do I. Damn would I like to run the show for a little while.
Well, if I can't run the whole show, let me have some power of the Federal Government and let me have NAFTA and the other trade agreements to renegotiate. NAFTA would be number 1 and at the same time the South Korean trade agreement.
After the world sees we are not going to be taken advantage of, China is next. Katy bar the door.
Quote from: The Troll on August 14, 2010, 05:32:14 PM
Just this week we had a logical Christian say that logical Christians didn't believe that Satan was a powerfull as God here on earth.
Hell, when I was a kid, I was taught that the devil could make you go anything at any time. That's why you had to pray and pray and pray and kiss God ass many times a day to keep Satan off of you.
I surly wasn't the only one that was told that, was I.
all I am saying is....Satan, was created BY GOD...and has limited powers.
I don't think you have to be on your knees praying all the time to escape anything....
hey, you asked...........
and THAT is my Sermon of the day......
back to your regular scheduled programming....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 15, 2010, 09:51:42 AMall I am saying is....Satan, was created BY GOD...and has limited powers. I don't think you have to be on your knees praying all the time to escape anything.... hey, you asked........... and THAT is my Sermon of the day...... back to your regular scheduled programming....
Just what things did God limit Satan on. If God is so powerful why doesn't he say to Satan, :stop: STOP! Say, Damn it will you just stop fu*king with my people.
Also why fight the End Times War. Surly Satan knows he can't win. Also how can you be so sure God's going to win this war. Religion when you really look at it, is really silly. Just plain silly. Makes no logical sense.
Henry posted:
"Satan, was created BY GOD"
Why?
Quote from: followsthewolf on August 15, 2010, 04:04:15 PM
Henry posted:
"Satan, was created BY GOD"
Why?
this is MY, and mine only, two cents....Evil is the result of a free-will choice by Lucifer, who is a "fallen" angel....Free will is the name of the game....and THAT is the one and only way for God, to receive TRUE Love, In my opinion....."making someone" love you is one thing, but to have people, on their OWN free will to choose and accept you and to "love" you is a gift even us mere humans can truly appreciate....
now, again, I am NOT preaching to anyone, just my opinion......and choosing to believe any of this is just a personal decision....one that has brought a great deal of comfort, peace and enjoyment in my personal life...it has help made my life fulfilling....
So, satan was created for the purpose of creating a trap for us mortals, and those who do not go down the "wrong path" are to be so grateful to this god because we made the right choice?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 15, 2010, 04:14:16 PM
this is MY, and mine only, two cents....Evil is the result of a free-will choice by Lucifer, who is a "fallen" angel....Free will is the name of the game....and THAT is the one and only way for God, to receive TRUE Love, In my opinion....."making someone" love you is one thing, but to have people, on their OWN free will to choose and accept you and to "love" you is a gift even us mere humans can truly appreciate....
now, again, I am NOT preaching to anyone, just my opinion......and choosing to believe any of this is just a personal decision....one that has brought a great deal of comfort, peace and enjoyment in my personal life...it has help made my life fulfilling....
There ain't no fucking devil, there ain't no fucking god. Get over it. You mindless fucks want to believe in your fairy tales, so be it, but it truly is mindless. Just as; there ain't no al qaeda, there ain't no yanks, just corporate criminals with guns and tanks....
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I love that part about 40 seconds or so into this where this dolt says, "When Glen Beck talks about God, he's not talking about the God of the Bible, but the
imaginary God dreamed up ..... "
Why is it that Christians think that everybody else's god is imaginary, but can't see why their own is too? I've YET to EVER hear a sensible explanation about that. They cast Santa Claus off as nonsense, because it's impossible for one man on a sleigh to deliver toys world wide in one night, yet hold tight to the belief that men came from dirt and that women came from a rib. :no:
I just don't get it.
Why don't these "My God Can Whip Your God" True Believers ever try to take on the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Cause they'd lose, that's why!
Quote from: LOsborne on September 14, 2010, 07:00:44 PM
Why don't these "My God Can Whip Your God" True Believers ever try to take on the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Cause they'd lose, that's why!
:biggrin: :yes:
Nothing like a good marinara stain to soil a frock!
FSM would fuck their gods up. :yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on September 16, 2010, 01:13:43 PM
FSM would fuck their gods up. :yes:
Yup! Too many noodly appendages. ROTFL!
(http://www.oodegr.com/english/atheismos/eikones/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.jpg)
Lunch!
Quote from: Palehorse on September 16, 2010, 02:00:03 PM
Lunch!
Hmmmm.... are you suggesting the sacrament of ritual cannibalism (
borrowed from the Christian religion, and others) is simply the way we Pastafarians carb-load for the ordeal of interacting with the religious right?
Quote from: LOsborne on September 16, 2010, 07:13:45 PM
Hmmmm.... are you suggesting the sacrament of ritual cannibalism (borrowed from the Christian religion, and others) is simply the way we Pastafarians carb-load for the ordeal of interacting with the religious right?
Slap some marinara on it and I am game!
Well, okay. But a few months back I learned the mysteries are more readily understood under the influence of garlic and clam sauce. Ya oughta try it. And then use a lot of mouthwash.
Quote from: LOsborne on September 16, 2010, 07:37:11 PM
Well, okay. But a few months back I learned the mysteries are more readily understood under the influence of garlic and clam sauce. Ya oughta try it. And then use a lot of mouthwash.
My marinara has LOTS of garlic. I am a long time garlic eater!
Quote from: LOsborne on September 16, 2010, 07:37:11 PM
Well, okay. But a few months back I learned the mysteries are more readily understood under the influence of garlic and clam sauce. Ya oughta try it. And then use a lot of mouthwash.
Doesn't help the sweat and gas problems. :smile: :smile:
True enlightenment always comes at a physical cost.
With benefits though! The garlic in the sweat keeps the skeeters at bay!
Quote from: Palehorse on September 16, 2010, 08:00:37 PM
With benefits though! The garlic in the sweat keeps the skeeters at bay!
Yeh, like a little garlic salt on a freshly grilled pork steak. :yes:
You know, God really sucks, because of the shit he let's happen. You seen him many times, in fact too many time.
He's Traveling Preacher Larry Jones, the crying and begging founder of the Save the Children. The $1 billion Organization that supossly take care of poor children in other country.
Well, he has been fired for bugging the other officials offices in the organization and giving his wife secret pay raises. Her income was not disclosed.
Mr. Jones, if that's what you want to call him makes $235,000 a year. Yes, $235,000 a year for a charity. How many kids could that feed and I wonder what he was paying his wife.
It's amazing how someone in his position can't keep from being a theif. And God let's him get by with it. Let us :pray: :preach: :pope: and the holy ghost :ghost:
I think Y put it best when he said right here....
Quote from: Y on February 06, 2010, 07:46:02 PM
..... In my business experience, the people who would attempt screw me the fastest, hardest, and most repeatedly were those who made certain they presented their religious front to me first thing.
:wink:
I have followed this thread from time to time and I have a question. Why is it that because some, or should I say, a lot of people use God as their excuse to get buy with less than appropriate behavior you give God the bad rap for it? Wouldn't it be more, for lack of a better term, politically correct to say that people who use God as an excuse to do things which are wrong suck? That would encompass quite a few people I realize but there are those who believe in God who are not bad people and are in fact everything they're supposed to be if they are true believers. Organized religion sucks, TV evangelists suck, do gooder Christian organizations suck, but God does not suck. God is simply something some people need for comfort during troubled times. If they chose to see him as having been a person in their minds eye so what why put them down for it? I feel one should be able to recognize someone who has a good heart and believes from those who are jerks and just use God as their excuse to bully people and don't even come close to practicing what they preach.
I don't want a big name calling thing started over this I would just like the question answered.
Well, when you can prove that there is a God, that prayer works and preacher who claim that God told them to do something. Like burn korans, that the end tmes are coming in 2012 yet the teabaggers are running like there is on tomorrow. Maybe I would change my mind. But we can wait until hell freezes over and the cows to come home, it ain't going to happen.
If I ever seen a Anti-christ group, it the Tea Party. Professing to be Christians and Jesus loving, which their are not. Selfish, selfserving, bigots, racist and of all thing greedy. Let us Pray. :pray: :preach: Oh yeah, some one else put something in the pot. :flap: :flap: :flap:
Quote from: The Troll on September 19, 2010, 12:55:05 PM
Well, when you can prove that there is a God, that prayer works and preacher who claim that God told them to do something. Like burn korans, that the end tmes are coming in 2012 yet the teabaggers are running like there is on tomorrow. Maybe I would change my mind. But we can wait until hell freezes over and the cows to come home, it ain't going to happen.
If I ever seen a Anti-christ group, it the Tea Party. Professing to be Christians and Jesus loving, which their are not. Selfish, selfserving, bigots, racist and of all thing greedy. Let us Pray. :pray: :preach: Oh yeah, some one else put something in the pot. :flap: :flap: :flap:
That has nothing to do with what I asked now does it? The tea party has nothing to do with what I asked and neither does your opinion of it.
Quote from: me on September 19, 2010, 04:37:43 PM
That has nothing to do with what I asked now does it? The tea party has nothing to do with what I asked and neither does your opinion of it.
It really doesn't matter what you think what I think. But the Republican Tea Party is using God, Jesus and fear to control the "Sheeple".
I do agree with you on "GOD doesn't suck, he doesn't save, he doesn't heal, he doesn't look over you because he doesn't exist. For those people to want to believe all of that crap. Do your thing, just leave me and my ilk alone. Shall we :pray: over this. :yes:
Quote from: me on September 19, 2010, 03:48:01 AM
I have followed this thread from time to time and I have a question. Why is it that because some, or should I say, a lot of people use God as their excuse to get buy with less than appropriate behavior you give God the bad rap for it? Wouldn't it be more, for lack of a better term, politically correct to say that people who use God as an excuse to do things which are wrong suck? That would encompass quite a few people I realize but there are those who believe in God who are not bad people and are in fact everything they're supposed to be if they are true believers. Organized religion sucks, TV evangelists suck, do gooder Christian organizations suck, but God does not suck. God is simply something some people need for comfort during troubled times. If they chose to see him as having been a person in their minds eye so what why put them down for it? I feel one should be able to recognize someone who has a good heart and believes from those who are jerks and just use God as their excuse to bully people and don't even come close to practicing what they preach.
I don't want a big name calling thing started over this I would just like the question answered.
The "god" that sucks is the one of human creation; which is why society endures those who invoke their religion as a means to obtain endless "do overs". That "god" is not real, it is a created perception of a "god" and therefore imperfect and invalid! And sucks!
Quote from: The Troll on September 19, 2010, 08:04:39 PM
It really doesn't matter what you think what I think. But the Republican Tea Party is using God, Jesus and fear to control the "Sheeple".
I do agree with you on "GOD doesn't suck, he doesn't save, he doesn't heal, he doesn't look over you because he doesn't exist. For those people to want to believe all of that crap. Do your thing, just leave me and my ilk alone. Shall we :pray: over this. :yes:
Serious question here Troll and try to answer without putting someone or something down for a change. What do you do when you're going through a rough time? What or who do you turn to for comfort?
Quote from: me on September 19, 2010, 08:18:39 PM
Serious question here Troll and try to answer without putting someone or something down for a change. What do you do when you're going through a rough time? What or who do you turn to for comfort?
We do what we have always did. Suck it up and move on. They keep preaching prayer. To me prayer is just talking to your interself. If every time we had a problem and we need a decision, if we would sit down and have a long talk with our interself and weight all of the pro and cons of the problem. A lot of our problems would solve themselves or we would have a very good idea what we need to do. Talking to God doesn't do a damn bit of good. Do you know of any body part that has been reproduced through prayer. An eye, nose, hand, finger, liver, lung, leg, brain, no you haven't. Because none of our doctors can do it. It's just like the crippled and brain damaged kids I see three days a week and the Health Center. If the doctors can't fix them, God won't.
Quote from: The Troll on September 19, 2010, 08:51:28 PM
We do what we have always did. Suck it up and move on. They keep preaching prayer. To me prayer is just talking to your interself. If every time we had a problem and we need a decision, if we would sit down and have a long talk with our interself and weight all of the pro and cons of the problem. A lot of our problems would solve themselves or we would have a very good idea what we need to do. Talking to God doesn't do a damn bit of good. Do you know of any body part that has been reproduced through prayer. An eye, nose, hand, finger, liver, lung, leg, brain, no you haven't. Because none of our doctors can do it. It's just like the crippled and brain damaged kids I see three days a week and the Health Center. If the doctors can't fix them, God won't.
But to really be able to come up with the answers you need to draw comfort from something to clear your mind and to some, and I'm not talking about the nut jobs here, use god as a means of comfort to clear their minds. I don't believe there is an invisible man in the sky watching our every move but I do believe there is something in each of us that guides us and some just don't have the sense to separate the good from the bad influences and go berserk or they're so caught up in selfishness that they are only able to think of number one, themselves, and are thoroughly convinced that their way is the only way and what they believe is all their is and they use god as a con. That's why I don't believe "god" sucks but rather the people who use him/it as an excuse to bully people into their way of thinking or to bilk them out of money or whatever.
Quote from: me on September 20, 2010, 02:27:49 AM
But to really be able to come up with the answers you need to draw comfort from something to clear your mind and to some, and I'm not talking about the nut jobs here, use god as a means of comfort to clear their minds. I don't believe there is an invisible man in the sky watching our every move but I do believe there is something in each of us that guides us and some just don't have the sense to separate the good from the bad influences and go berserk or they're so caught up in selfishness that they are only able to think of number one, themselves, and are thoroughly convinced that their way is the only way and what they believe is all their is and they use god as a con. That's why I don't believe "god" sucks but rather the people who use him/it as an excuse to bully people into their way of thinking or to bilk them out of money or whatever.
I think one of the reason the "GOD" thing continues is, it because there are so many people who are alone. People who don't have anyone to talk to about their problems. People they can trust that won't blab and tell they secrets to someone else. This is where the preacher steps in. The more people the preacher can draw in the more money he makes.
With a like minded group of people called a church, which is like family and the preacher using God to verify his words. The clergy has taken advantage of the downtrodden and depressed people since man was created.
As long as we have people like the Pope for example, who uses people's weakness and depression for their own benefit, we will always have a God or Gods. It's the money, follow the money and the power.
LMFAO!!! :rotfl:
CNN) -- Two Georgia men have filed suit claiming that prominent Atlanta pastor Eddie Long coerced them into sex.
The suits, filed Tuesday in DeKalb County, Georgia, allege that Long used his position as a spiritual authority and bishop to coerce young male members and employees of his New Birth Missionary Baptist Church into sex.
"Defendant Long has a pattern and practice of singling out a select group of young male church members and using his authority as Bishop over them to ultimately bring them to a point of engaging in a sexual relationship," the suits allege.
Long is considered one of the nation's top black preachers.
The pastor took one plaintiff, Anthony Flagg, 21, on overnight trips to a half-dozen American cities in recent years, Flagg's suit alleges.
"Long shared a bedroom and engaged in intimate sexual contact with plaintiff Flagg including kissing, massaging, masturbating of plaintiff Flagg by defendant Long and oral sexual contact," the suit says.
Long took the other plaintiff, Maurice Murray Robinson, 20, to Auckland, New Zealand, in October 2008 for his 19th birthday and engaged in oral sex with him, Robinson's suit alleges.
"Following the New Zealand Trip, Defendant Long regularly engaged in sexual touching, and other sexual acts with Plaintiff Robinson," Robinson's suit alleges.
Long spokesman Art Franklin said Tuesday that "we categorically deny the allegations."
"It is very unfortunate that someone has taken this course of action," he said. "Our law firm will be able to respond once attorneys have had an opportunity to review the lawsuit."
Both plaintiffs said the pastor, his church and church employees gave them cash and lavish gifts that ranged from cars to college tuition.
The suits also said that Long framed the sexual relationships as religious in nature.
"Defendant Long would use Holy Scripture to discuss and justify the intimate relationship between himself and Plaintiff Robinson," Robinson's suit alleges.
The suits are seeking unspecified amounts of punitive damages from Long on various counts, ranging from negligence to breach of fiduciary duty.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/21/georgia.pastor.abuse/index.html?hpt=T1
Somebody say Amen. God works in unsual ways. Priest with little boys and Jim Jones with the :koolaid: drink to heaven. Shall we pray. :preach: :pope: and the Holy :ghost: In Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus name, Amen!
Look at this shit. :mad: This is Swaggart's operation in Baton Rouge. This is at the Family Worship Center's Crossfire meeting which targets teenagers with the fucked up speaking in tongues garbage. If this isn't child abuse and brainwashing, I don't know what is. :mad: To these nut jobs, everyone else is a cult, but don't dare call them one.
Quote from: Locutus on October 18, 2010, 12:28:22 AM
This is at the Family Worship Center's Crossfire meeting which targets teenagers with the fucked up speaking in tongues garbage. If this isn't child abuse and brainwashing, I don't know what is.
Looks to me like an intervention is called for. Ya think any of those folks were competent to drive? Personally, I've always preferred my intoxicants in tangible form.
I feel that if you don't know what you are saying, best keep your mouth shut. Speaking in tongues is dangerous, you might be blaspheming God. The people in the video looked like they are in a state of chaos, that isn't my God they are worshiping. My God is a god of order. It is easy to say you are a Christian, it is harder to walk the walk.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 18, 2010, 12:14:40 PM
I feel that if you don't know what you are saying, best keep your mouth shut. Speaking in tongues is dangerous, you might be blaspheming God. The people in the video looked like they are in a state of chaos, that isn't my God they are worshiping. My God is a god of order. It is easy to say you are a Christian, it is harder to walk the walk.
Right on... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 18, 2010, 12:59:50 PM
Right on... :yes:
Maybe I been wrong. I wonder if I give all of my money to Joel Osteen, Terry Randell, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins and take a vow to poverty and celibacy and then God might love me. And give me more happiness.. Oh give me a break :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: May bullshit run deep.
Somebody give us a Amen. Now let us pray, :pray: :preach: :Pope: and the Holy :ghost:
Quote from: The Troll on October 18, 2010, 05:06:25 PM
Maybe I been wrong. I wonder if I give all of my money to Joel Osteen, Terry Randell, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins and take a vow to poverty and celibacy and then God might love me. And give me more happiness.. Oh give me a break :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: May bullshit run deep.
Somebody give us a Amen. Now let us pray, :pray: :preach: :Pope: and the Holy :ghost:
Troll, the preachers you list all preach what is called the "prosperity Gospel" which I do not personally believe in. They purport that if you send them money, God will reward you financially. There are many ways to tithe. One is by volunteering to help someone in need. But Troll, one of the problems with humans is that they are lazy by nature. People find it much easier to put some money in the plate, or send it to some mega preacher, rather than taking the time and responsibility to help out the needy themselves. More money would go to those in need if the person donating it took the time and effort to cut out the middleman and go out and disperse their tithes directly to a family in need. Say that you hear of a family having a difficult time, it doesn't take a lot of work to go buy a few groceries and drop them off at the door. But what is not right is when you brag or make a big deal of how benevolent you are. My God doesn't like that and you lose your blessing. So you see Troll, there are many wolves out there disguised as sheep. The men you listed I feel are wolves.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 18, 2010, 05:51:29 PM
Troll, the preachers you list all preach what is called the "prosperity Gospel" which I do not personally believe in. They purport that if you send them money, God will reward you financially. There are many ways to tithe. One is by volunteering to help someone in need. But Troll, one of the problems with humans is that they are lazy by nature. People find it much easier to put some money in the plate, or send it to some mega preacher, rather than taking the time and responsibility to help out the needy themselves. More money would go to those in need if the person donating it took the time and effort to cut out the middleman and go out and disperse their tithes directly to a family in need. Say that you hear of a family having a difficult time, it doesn't take a lot of work to go buy a few groceries and drop them off at the door. But what is not right is when you brag or make a big deal of how benevolent you are. My God doesn't like that and you lose your blessing. So you see Troll, there are many wolves out there disguised as sheep. The men you listed I feel are wolves.
Amen! Brother Lester.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 18, 2010, 05:51:29 PM
Troll, the preachers you list all preach what is called the "prosperity Gospel" which I do not personally believe in. They purport that if you send them money, God will reward you financially. There are many ways to tithe. One is by volunteering to help someone in need. But Troll, one of the problems with humans is that they are lazy by nature. People find it much easier to put some money in the plate, or send it to some mega preacher, rather than taking the time and responsibility to help out the needy themselves. More money would go to those in need if the person donating it took the time and effort to cut out the middleman and go out and disperse their tithes directly to a family in need. Say that you hear of a family having a difficult time, it doesn't take a lot of work to go buy a few groceries and drop them off at the door. But what is not right is when you brag or make a big deal of how benevolent you are. My God doesn't like that and you lose your blessing. So you see Troll, there are many wolves out there disguised as sheep. The men you listed I feel are wolves.
Hey, hey, HEY!
Let's just lighten up on the wolves, OK?!!
Quote from: followsthewolf on October 19, 2010, 03:42:37 AM
Hey, hey, HEY!
Let's just lighten up on the wolves, OK?!!
Sorry, sometimes I get carried away and don't think of what I write. But I do have a problem with wolves that stems from my childhood.
The problem is that the idiots in that video aren't even following the dictates of the book with which they all claim such a familiarity. There is hard evidence to support recent findings that atheists and agnostics know more about that crap than the people who practice it.
From the Bible:
1 Corinthians 14:6-9, 19, 27-28, 40 "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise you, except you utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for you shall speak into the air. 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order"
^^ Of course since it's all bullshit anyway, nobody can interpret what these idiots are babbling, but I just find it interesting that they don't even try to follow what the Bible says. They just spew that BS willingly and en masse.
Here's more. The freshly brainwashed girls returned to their overnight accommodations and continued the lunacy that they'd just been taught, all while being encouraged by the adults who were there.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 19, 2010, 01:22:34 PM
Sorry, sometimes I get carried away and don't think of what I write. But I do have a problem with wolves that stems from my childhood.
You must be referring to the 1%er wolves.
Right, PH?
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 04:22:39 PM
Here's more. The freshly brainwashed girls returned to their overnight accommodations and continued the lunacy that they'd just been taught, all while being encouraged by the adults who were there.
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Manipulation of those who are young and willing. Sad.
Quote from: followsthewolf on October 19, 2010, 04:42:02 PM
Manipulation of those who are young and willing. Sad.
Indeed!
However, it's indicative of a larger problem with people of that persuasion. By that persuasion, I mean those who believe in the man in the sky. I've yet to find a single one of them, in real life and in these online venues, who is willing to question and scrutinize their beliefs. The people in the video obviously haven't as is evidenced by the Bible verses I posted above. What they're doing is in
direct violation of what Paul said in his letter to the Corinthians.
Now if they are all as familiar with that book as they think they are, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. I would love to hear one of the leaders of that fleeced flock explain those activities in light of the verses I cited. You'd better bet the farm that if I believed in that crap, and thought what they were teaching me violated the scriptures, I'd damn well be asking some fucking questions as to why.
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Indeed!
However, it's indicative of a larger problem with people of that persuasion. By that persuasion, I mean those who believe in the man in the sky. I've yet to find a single one of them, in real life and in these online venues, who is willing to question and scrutinize their beliefs. The people in the video obviously haven't as is evidenced by the Bible verses I posted above. What they're doing is in direct violation of what Paul said in his letter to the Corinthians.
Now if they are all as familiar with that book as they think they are, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. I would love to hear one of the leaders of that fleeced flock explain those activities in light of the verses I cited. You'd better bet the farm that if I believed in that crap, and thought what they were teaching me violated the scriptures, I'd damn well be asking some fucking questions as to why.
One rule I never break is not to drink the koolaid when offered by members of a strange church.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 19, 2010, 06:32:07 PM
One rule I never break is not to drink the koolaid when offered by members of a strange church.
That's very sound thinking. What I find particularly troubling about those videos is, as FTW duly noted, they're brainwashing impressionable children and teenagers with that garbage. :mad: I'll bet you any amount of money that those people would all call the Moonies a cult, and call the Hare Krishnas a cult, yet they would never consider themselves as one. If they really do believe in eternal damnation if you 'eff up, they better turn to some serious introspection.
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 06:38:03 PM
That's very sound thinking. What I find particularly troubling about those videos is, as FTW duly noted, they're brainwashing impressionable children and teenagers with that garbage. :mad: I'll bet you any amount of money that those people would all call the Moonies a cult, and call the Hare Krishnas a cult, yet they would never consider themselves as one. If they really do believe in eternal damnation if you 'eff up, they better turn to some serious introspection.
They indeed do act like a cult, and if the shoe fits... Hitler did about the same thing with the young children in Germany, indoctrination into the third Reich. But I do not feel this video is indicative of most practicing Christians in America. I went to a Full Gospel church once and felt very uncomfortable with the way they worshiped. When I feel uncomfortable I don't go back. Also many people are to lazy to read the scripture themselves. They put some money in the plate as it passes and listen to the preacher thinking that's all they need to do. Very few sit down regularly and read the Word themselves, they just assume the man in the pulpit is preaching according to the Bible. Some churches go as far as to discourage the members from private bible study, these are like cults to me.
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 03:33:29 PM
They just spew that BS willingly and en masse.
You're reading too much into it, Locutus. They are flat out stoned-high-intoxicated-f*cked up by the hypnotic and controlling techniques practiced by their charismatic leader.
http://homeworktips.about.com/od/studymethods/ss/leadership_4.htm
What the video doesn't show is the embarrassment of these kids after the contact high wears off.
Quote from: LOsborne on October 19, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
You're reading too much into it, Locutus. They are flat out stoned-high-intoxicated-f*cked up by the hypnotic and controlling techniques practiced by their charismatic leader.
http://homeworktips.about.com/od/studymethods/ss/leadership_4.htm
What the video doesn't show is the embarrassment of these kids after the contact high wears off.
Oh you're quite right. No disagreement about the "flat out stoned-high-intoxicated-f*cked up" part of what you said. My grandmother was into that crap and I've been to a few services with people who were in a state exactly as you described. The fact that parents would allow themselves to become caught up in that crap is bad enough, but to indoctrinate their children is worse.
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
However, it's indicative of a larger problem with people of that persuasion. ...the man in the sky.
Relax. It's their drug of choice. Their choice. And ultimately their responsibility.
Ya know, you can get SSDI now for depression. I wonder how long it will be before you can get disability compensation for being devout. At the root, it's a medical impairment, brought about by low self-esteem.
Quote from: LOsborne on October 19, 2010, 07:25:48 PM
Relax. It's their drug of choice. Their choice. And ultimately their responsibility.
Ya know, you can get SSDI now for depression. I wonder how long it will be before you can get disability compensation for being devout. At the root, it's a medical impairment, brought about by low self-esteem.
Reminds me very much of the words of Jesse Ventura.
"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 06:38:03 PM
What I find particularly troubling about those videos is, as FTW duly noted, they're brainwashing impressionable children and teenagers with that garbage.
Isn't it a rite of passage? I still treasure the memory of Mark Rudd (then president of SDS) and Rennie Davis (Chicago Seven) handing me a doobie when I was seventeen. Magical thinking is by right the territory of the young.
Quote from: LOsborne on October 19, 2010, 07:32:35 PM
Isn't it a rite of passage? I still treasure the memory of Mark Rudd (then president of SDS) and Rennie Davis (Chicago Seven) handing me a doobie when I was seventeen. Magical thinking is by right the territory of the young.
I'm don't think that's a very valid comparison. By accepting your doobie, I would take it that you had a choice in the matter. Even though you were younger, I'm quite certain you were able to assess the risks of what you were doing. I doubt any of these children were presented with a choice when their parents dragged them into the FWC. They were most likely forced into that environment at an earlier age, and they were put in a place by their parents where they were subjected to a constant stream of that garbage along with a threat of eternal damnation thrown in for good measure.
Quote from: Locutus on October 19, 2010, 07:39:38 PM
By accepting your doobie, I would take it that you had a choice in the matter. Even though you were younger, I'm quite certain you were able to assess the risks of what you were doing.
Bullshit. I was star-struck.
I would definitely have been shunned because after I got over the horror of it all I would have been in fits of uncontrollable laughter.
Quote from: me on October 20, 2010, 04:17:59 PM
... after I got over the horror of it all I would have been in fits of uncontrollable laughter.
See? You don't need any "herbal enhancement" to improve your fine sense of the ridiculous,
me.
Ya got that right. :biggrin: I was told once I was a bad candidate for hypnosis because my mind was too active and I was too inquisitive and there were a few other things thrown in and maybe that's why I was never taken in by that type of thing.
Quote from: LOsborne on October 20, 2010, 05:44:39 PM
See? You don't need any "herbal enhancement" to improve your fine sense of the ridiculous, me.
A little change in topic.
Where is God.
Crystal Cathedral files bankruptcy, Robert Schuller 84, founder's work is at it's end. Building the Crystal Cathedral in 1980 out of 10,664 panels of glass and $20 million in dollar bills is about to come to an end.
The organization blames the collapse on changing times and the disastrous attempt to hand the church over to Schuller's son.
What a shame all of that money spent for nothing. $20 million for the building and who knows how much more for the hookahs, pookahs, smoke and mirrors and smoke, for nothing. Where are you God. Let us :pray: :peach: :pope: and the Holy :ghost:
^^ Now that's interesting right there. That's a tidbit of news that slipped by me over the last few days. Here's an interesting list of some of their unsecured creditors and what they're owed:
Infocision Management Corp.: $359,788
Media Services Agency: $352,370
Lloyd Daniel Corp.: $318,500
FGS-CA Inc.: $252,992
KWGN: $206,954
World Marketing Inc.: $200,386
Thomas Nelson Publisher: $200,219
Dayster Television: $172,997
Wheelchair Foundation: $163,551
Hearst Television Inc.: $105,400
Lin Television Corporation: $90,567
Kristina Oliver, livestock supplier: $56,000
Gray Television Inc.: $55,522
Sharon Crabtree, managed props for pageants: $20,000
Carin Galletta, public relations: $16,000
Bruce Johnson, drycleaner: $11,500
Juliet Noriega, wardrobe supervisor: $10,000
http://www.ocregister.com/news/television-271375-inc-carin.html
Livestock supplier???
Quote from: Locutus on October 21, 2010, 11:50:25 PM
Livestock supplier???
Didn't you ever hear of the Golden calve. "Where's the beef."
I may be wrong but I believe that "livestock supplier" is how personal escort services and sex toys are typically billed.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 22, 2010, 01:12:31 PM
I may be wrong but I believe that "livestock supplier" is how personal escort services and sex toys are typically billed.
:food24: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 22, 2010, 01:12:31 PM
I may be wrong but I believe that "livestock supplier" is how personal escort services and sex toys are typically billed.
Ya' just might be onto something there. :biggrin:
http://www.youtube.com/v/oamNkxz68Rw
Proof of conditioning!
Quote from: Palehorse on October 27, 2010, 02:57:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/oamNkxz68Rw
Proof of conditioning!
That why the Christians want prayer in schools. Get them early and brain wash them. With all of what we have found out about the Universe and what we have found through science. How could any one believe in God.
If there is a God, why does he hide, hide in a bush, in a cloud and in a light. Hell, nobody has seen him as long as there has been man.
Quote from: The Troll on October 27, 2010, 06:17:47 PM
That why the Christians want prayer in schools. Get them early and brain wash them. With all of what we have found out about the Universe and what we have found through science. How could any one believe in God.
If there is a God, why does he hide, hide in a bush, in a cloud and in a light. Hell, nobody has seen him as long as there has been man.
Troll, as you know, I believe in the living God, the God of Moses and Abraham. I was skeptical once myself, then I had a stirring experience that was very personal and I do not wish to provide details of but will say that I am no longer in doubt. I am pretty sure that the Bible says Exodus that God told Moses that no one can see him and live. There is nothing wrong with prayer, or having a personal relationship with the creator. I don't even see anything wrong with prayer in school but can see where it would lead to unrest so it is best not to. In fact, since I met you Troll I have consistently included you in my prayers too. If you only knew how offensive I find some of your blasphemous posts but I know you don't understand. I just don't know why, if you do not believe in God, you ridicule him so much? Do you find it humorous or is it that you intentionally want to offend me?
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 27, 2010, 07:20:28 PM
Troll, as you know, I believe in the living God, the God of Moses and Abraham. I was skeptical once myself, then I had a stirring experience that was very personal and I do not wish to provide details of but will say that I am no longer in doubt. I am pretty sure that the Bible says Exodus that God told Moses that no one can see him and live. There is nothing wrong with prayer, or having a personal relationship with the creator. I don't even see anything wrong with prayer in school but can see where it would lead to unrest so it is best not to. In fact, since I met you Troll I have consistently included you in my prayers too. If you only knew how offensive I find some of your blasphemous posts but I know you don't understand. I just don't know why, if you do not believe in God, you ridicule him so much? Do you find it humorous or is it that you intentionally want to offend me?
Lester if you want to be offended my Atheistism, sorry. But what you see is what you get with me. You can take me or leave me. But there is one thing you don't have to worry about an Atheist.
We don't want to take your religion, your freedom, a woman right to have an abortion, and treating gays unfair because the way they were born.
My mother was a BIG TIME CHRISTIAN LADY. She burned my two sisters and me out on religion. One of my happiest days was when I got my first car a 1935 Hudson Terriplane 2 door coupe. That's when I had to go to work to keep it and I DIDN'T HAVE GO TO CHURCH. I have read a lot of the bible, because I HAD TOO.. I think it's a fairy tale. But it does have some history.
But if you have read any of the Old Testament against the New Testament. Brother we have to Gods. But I am a believer in science and the truth not fairy tales.
But what tickles me is when the Christians say they want prayer in school. But let them think the prayer would be led by a Catholic or a Mormon. Katy bar the door, the devil :devil29: and hell is here. End Times can't be far away. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: The Troll on October 27, 2010, 09:41:59 PM
Lester if you want to be offended my Atheistism, sorry. But what you see is what you get with me. You can take me or leave me. But there is one thing you don't have to worry about an Atheist.
We don't want to take your religion, your freedom, a woman right to have an abortion, and treating gays unfair because the way they were born.
My mother was a BIG TIME CHRISTIAN LADY. She burned my two sisters and me out on religion. One of my happiest days was when I got my first car a 1935 Hudson Terriplane 2 door coupe. That's when I had to go to work to keep it and I DIDN'T HAVE GO TO CHURCH. I have read a lot of the bible, because I HAD TOO.. I think it's a fairy tale. But it does have some history.
But if you have read any of the Old Testament against the New Testament. Brother we have to Gods. But I am a believer in science and the truth not fairy tales.
But what tickles me is when the Christians say they want prayer in school. But let them think the prayer would be led by a Catholic or a Mormon. Katy bar the door, the devil :devil29: and hell is here. End Times can't be far away. :rotfl: :rotfl:
To be candid, leaving has crossed my mind as much as I hate to. I will mull it over and let you know. Thanks for being honest with me Bob.
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 27, 2010, 11:03:35 PM
To be candid, leaving has crossed my mind as much as I hate to. I will mull it over and let you know. Thanks for being honest with me Bob.
Lester, I try to work out three days a week at the Riverview Rehabitation Center. It is great, all kinds of machines and a big hot water pool for exercises and rehabilitation.
Many days sitting on the exercise machines I watch them bring in the retarded children. In braces, wheel chairs with twisted bodies and mental retardation where they can't close their mouths or hold up their head. I have said, if there is a God, WHY?
I have never seen a prayer work, I have never seen a miracle. I have never seen a eye, finger, arm, leg, face or any other body miraculously replaced.
My mother's Christian church had a prayer chain line. Anybody that hit the hospital really sick and bout to die. All of the church ladies would get on the telephone and call each telling them to pray.
You know I never seen and I watched. Nobody lived no matter how hard they prayed. Lester can you imagine how we would be over run by Christians if they lived because of prayer.
You know a farmer and animal lover take better care of their animals than God takes care of his flock. He lets them starve, drown, die of disease, over breeding and die of thirst. It as been a con game from the beginning.
Back in the Greek times an inventor dreamed up a device if you put a gold coin in the slot you could buy a little amount of holy water. :sneaky: He also invented a device that when they built a fire in the fire ring in front of the temple it would heat water make steam and magically open the doors to the temple. :sneaky: It has been smoke and mirrors for centuries. Let bleed the Sheep (sheeple) It has always been that way. With the religious leaders.
I like so many others and we are growing in large numbers each year, have woke up and we can see the real light and it isn't religion. It's science and the God they are always talking about. Hey, that us, in our brain. Prayer, it just like sitting down and talking to yourself and think about all of the way you, yourself can solve the problem. Not God. Let us :bow: :pray: :preach: :pope: and don't forget to kiss his ring.
I cannot explain why some people suffer so much Troll. All I can say that at least one of my prayers was answered when I witnessed a miracle in June of 1986. There was no faking Troll, that I know with absolute certainty. But I no longer give the details of my experience as it only leads to skeptics saying either I am lying or try to explain it away by science. Be careful about what scientists tell you Troll, many of them are arrogant know-it-alls that have an answer for everything regardless of whether they can prove it or not. What it boils down to is believing in God is an individual choice and a person can choose his own path. I never try to push my beliefs on others but on the other hand I feel I have the right to defend my belief.
What bothers me is not your belief or lack of, it is that you post things I find offensive that serve no useful purpose in the conversation. I guess some might find them funny but I don't. I think you know what I am talking about, taking God's name in vain for one. I can respect a nonbeliever stating why they don't believe, it is the blasphemous phrases that offend me. Troll, I would much rather you say offensive things about me rather than the God I worship.
We all seem to paint with a broad brush and, if we can find a video or a news clipping where a people representing a group we don't like does or says something stupid, we try to say they are all that way. That would be like saying that since there are Americans in jail for murder, all Americans are murderers. Or that since a man is in jail for drugs, all men use drugs. Yes, there are many preachers who must be in it for the money and power. Yes there are men in the pulpit who should not be there. But there are many Christians who are good people too. Christians who do not go into a full gospel frenzy of disorder, speaking in weird tongues. Just like there are Christians who do not believe in handling venomous snakes.
Lester, I'm glad you had a miracle. You are truly blessed, because you the first one that I would believe you thought you had one. I hope it was a really big one, you probably won't get anymore.
Once a person find out and declares he's an Atheist and that there is no God and no Devil and no record keeping on the number of sins someone else think you might have. Well, I agree we do look at people who do believe with jaded eyes. Most of the sins there are were written by the Pope :pope: and holy men trying to keep us in our place. They were not written by God. Because there is no God.
Just to keep peace between you and me, we won't talk about it. But the other religious right wing nuts, I can't keep my mouth shut. Because practically every thing they say is bullshit.
If other people can talk about their religion, well I should be able to talk about mine, Atheistism.
Quote from: The Troll on October 28, 2010, 01:12:46 PM
If other people can talk about their religion, well I should be able to talk about mine, Atheistism.
Of course you can. And I, for one, welcome any thoughtful comments. But you don't represent your beliefs (or lack of them) very well by ridiculing all others.
Quote from: The Troll on October 28, 2010, 01:12:46 PM
Lester, I'm glad you had a miracle. You are truly blessed, because you the first one that I would believe you thought you had one. I hope it was a really big one, you probably won't get anymore.
Once a person find out and declares he's an Atheist and that there is no God and no Devil and no record keeping on the number of sins someone else think you might have. Well, I agree we do look at people who do believe with jaded eyes. Most of the sins there are were written by the Pope :pope: and holy men trying to keep us in our place. They were not written by God. Because there is no God.
Just to keep peace between you and me, we won't talk about it. But the other religious right wing nuts, I can't keep my mouth shut. Because practically every thing they say is bullshit.
If other people can talk about their religion, well I should be able to talk about mine, Atheistism.
Yes Bob, God has truly blessed me in many ways throughout my life. Thank you for understanding and I will not talk about the subject with you any more. But just for the record, I have no problem with discussing your choice not to believe in God and can tolerate you ridiculing me or others of my faith, it was just the remarks you make ridiculing God that I have problems with.
Quote from: Olias on October 28, 2010, 01:20:46 PM
Of course you can. And I, for one, welcome any thoughtful comments. But you don't represent your beliefs (or lack of them) very well by ridiculing all others.
Very well put Olias, I wholeheartedly agree.
Wow! The Poop knows more about astrophysics than Stephen Hawking! But then again, they've always known more than scientists. Case in point, Galileo. :science: :bible: :pope:
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/09/17/t1large.pope-friday.afp.gi.jpg)
Pope praises science, but insists God created world
Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday - God did create the universe.
The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme being to have brought the world into existence.
In fact, Benedict specifically praised - and blessed - science and scientists in an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
But he also made clear that part of the role of science is to reveal God in the universe.
"Scientists do not create the world; they learn about it and attempt to imitate it," he said.
"The scientist's experience as a human being is therefore that of perceiving a constant, a law ... that he has not created but that he has instead observed," the pope said.
That perception, in turn, "leads us to admit the existence of an all-powerful Reason, which is other than that of man, and which sustains the world," he said.
Hawking says in his book, "The Grand Design," that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing."
"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the introduction.
"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going," he writes.
Benedict was enthusiastic about science in his speech Thursday, even as he set the Catholic Church's marker firmly in place on the existence of God.
"The developments of science have been both uplifting, as when the complexity of nature and its phenomena were discovered, exceeding our expectations, and humbling, as when some of the theories we thought might have explained those phenomena once and for all proved only partial," he said.
And he said the conference he was attending was "proof of the church's esteem for ongoing scientific research and of her gratitude for scientific endeavor, which she both encourages and benefits from."
Yeah. But then the folks chasing that "god particle" keep hitting one snag after another, too. First CERN had to shut down the Large Hadron Collider, and now this.
The Tevatron at Fermilab in Batavia, Illinois, is potentially powerful enough to confirm or deny the existence of the Higgs boson, which would help explain the origin of mass in the universe. But the machine needs more time, and its scheduled September 2011 shutdown would almost certainly allow Europe's new, more powerful Large Hadron Collider to get there first.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/10/tevatron-higgs-extension/
Quote from: Locutus on October 28, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Wow! The Poop knows more about astrophysics than Stephen Hawking! But then again, they've always known more than scientists. Case in point, Galileo. :science: :bible: :pope:
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/09/17/t1large.pope-friday.afp.gi.jpg)
Where in hell does this "MAN" get all of his knowledge from. From his teen years he has lived in an institution of men. Married the church, vow his celibacy to the church giving up his sexual love of a woman. Which always seemed a little queer to me.
Where does he get his experience to telling a family how to live and the way they should handle sex, "which he never had. Telling a woman how to handle her life in when and how to have babies.
Telling the couple that then they had all of the babies they want. Don't use any birth control, but live like brother and sister. To me me is total bullshit
How this human (man) who is not the representative of God on this planet. Because there is no God. But was elected by a group of celibate men. Just how in hell does he know how the Universe was created. Nobody of this earth knows.
Just think people believe the this man :pope: pope can make holy water that with a few sprinkles or gargles will forgive you of all your past sins. Again I say bullshit, it's all smoke and mirrors.
If you look at the history of the Catholic church and the decisions of the Pope. With the handling of Galileo, Inquisition, and many more imprisonment and murders of many innocent people through history. And some people call him a god on earth. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 28, 2010, 11:55:30 AM
I cannot explain why some people suffer so much Troll. All I can say that at least one of my prayers was answered when I witnessed a miracle in June of 1986. There was no faking Troll, that I know with absolute certainty. But I no longer give the details of my experience as it only leads to skeptics saying either I am lying or try to explain it away by science. Be careful about what scientists tell you Troll, many of them are arrogant know-it-alls that have an answer for everything regardless of whether they can prove it or not. What it boils down to is believing in God is an individual choice and a person can choose his own path. I never try to push my beliefs on others but on the other hand I feel I have the right to defend my belief.
What bothers me is not your belief or lack of, it is that you post things I find offensive that serve no useful purpose in the conversation. I guess some might find them funny but I don't. I think you know what I am talking about, taking God's name in vain for one. I can respect a nonbeliever stating why they don't believe, it is the blasphemous phrases that offend me. Troll, I would much rather you say offensive things about me rather than the God I worship.
We all seem to paint with a broad brush and, if we can find a video or a news clipping where a people representing a group we don't like does or says something stupid, we try to say they are all that way. That would be like saying that since there are Americans in jail for murder, all Americans are murderers. Or that since a man is in jail for drugs, all men use drugs. Yes, there are many preachers who must be in it for the money and power. Yes there are men in the pulpit who should not be there. But there are many Christians who are good people too. Christians who do not go into a full gospel frenzy of disorder, speaking in weird tongues. Just like there are Christians who do not believe in handling venomous snakes.
Lester, I could not agree with you more, and you stated it perfectly. I have been trying to relay this message to the zoners for years. I doubt that it will make much difference with most of them. To me, I find that those who enjoy being "offensive" are ones who don't have much to offer in the first place. They have a real act of classlessness to them. They want others to "NOT" believe WITH them for some reason. So they become crass and crude. I too, have not much problem with being "trashed" for my beliefs, but find it MORE offensive when they attack the God I have "chose" to worship. I don't see the point in it, and don't understand WHY, especially on here, they feel they have to continue to do so.
Anyway, just wanted to give you a thumbs up for this post.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 01, 2010, 08:38:24 AM
Lester, I could not agree with you more, and you stated it perfectly. I have been trying to relay this message to the zoners for years. I doubt that it will make much difference with most of them. To me, I find that those who enjoy being "offensive" are ones who don't have much to offer in the first place. They have a real act of classlessness to them. They want others to "NOT" believe WITH them for some reason. So they become crass and crude. I too, have not much problem with being "trashed" for my beliefs, but find it MORE offensive when they attack the God I have "chose" to worship. I don't see the point in it, and don't understand WHY, especially on here, they feel they have to continue to do so.
Anyway, just wanted to give you a thumbs up for this post.... :yes:
So everybody that doesn't believe like you are classless. Bullshit. Henry I have read your stupid posts for a long long time. If people told you the truth they would say you have your head up your ass. I don't know how or when you put it there, you can't see anything or hear anything because of where head is.
Tell one reason I should respect your God. He sure as hell isn't mine. How can you show respect for something that doesn't exist. It is not going to be to many years, when all religions are going to be treated the way the Egyptians with their Sun God and the Greeks and many other people's God's, Thor, Zeus, Neptune and so on. All make believe, smoke, mirrors and religious bullshit.
But for you to call me classless is just as stupid as your truly uneducated opinion that Atheist are so evil, "BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD." Have your ever sat down and with your engineers mind and really read and thought what is really written and said in the Bible and you think it true. Give all of us a break. :wall: Let us Pray: :pray: I probably have read more of your Bible than you have. I know I have read more about how much of it is a big fairy tale. I know you haven't.
Quote from: The Troll on November 01, 2010, 09:11:37 AM
So everybody that doesn't believe like you are classless.
No, just you...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 01, 2010, 09:37:48 AM
No, just you...
Just like the song, "You don't know me" But what I read from you, you have your head up your ass, that's for sure. :kiss: :kiss: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on November 01, 2010, 01:09:49 PM
Just like the song, "You don't know me" But what I read from you, you have your head up your ass, that's for sure. :kiss: :kiss: :biggrin:
right back at you brother!!.. :kiss: :kiss: :biggrin:
Welcome back, Hank. :smile:
Hi Henry, welcome back.
Glad to see you back, Henry. Did you get home in time to wear your new mouse ears trick-r-treating?
Thanks guys, yeah got back just in time to wear my Mickey ears, and retire them for a while. That place is a lot of fun, but it was HOT and CROWDED. But we had a great time, despite.
Welcome back HH. Glad ya had a good time.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 02, 2010, 08:45:52 AM
Thanks guys, yeah got back just in time to wear my Mickey ears, and retire them for a while. That place is a lot of fun, but it was HOT and CROWDED. But we had a great time, despite.
Best time for Disney is in the winter months. Any other time than that and it's almost too hot to stand. But people still do it.
Quote from: Locutus on November 02, 2010, 01:18:03 PM
Best time for Disney is in the winter months. Any other time than that and it's almost too hot to stand. But people still do it.
I agree, I went with the wife in January once, and it was PERFECT.
I won't go any other time, ever again.
I will very likely never go there again. . . and not by choice. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on November 02, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
I will very likely never go there again. . . and not by choice. . .
:confused:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 02, 2010, 04:30:28 PM
Poverty has me at a standstill. . .
I know it is easy for me to say, but I got to believe that there are better days ahead....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 02, 2010, 04:44:38 PM
I know it is easy for me to say, but I got to believe that there are better days ahead....
One way or another I guess. . . either the shit will change or I'll take the long dirt nap. . . I guess its just a matter of which on arrives first! :rant:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 02, 2010, 04:48:15 PM
One way or another I guess. . . either the shit will change or I'll take the long dirt nap. . . I guess its just a matter of which on arrives first! :rant:
I sure wish I knew what to tell you. I know that my son went through some real bad shit by loosing his job. Thanks to some good luck in my life and working time to put some money back I was able to save his house and car and feed him. Because his back was to the wall.
He went for being a salesman to a maintenance man for a large hotel in Indianapolis. He lost some money per hour. But his insurance is better. They furnish his cloths and feed him a meal every day and for 12 hours two meals. He lost all of the pressure of sales and is much happier. He would like more, but right now he just happy to have found a job. Good luck.
Quote from: The Troll on November 03, 2010, 05:10:01 AM
I sure wish I knew what to tell you. I know that my son went through some real bad shit by loosing his job. Thanks to some good luck in my life and working time to put some money back I was able to save his house and car and feed him. Because his back was to the wall.
He went for being a salesman to a maintenance man for a large hotel in Indianapolis. He lost some money per hour. But his insurance is better. They furnish his cloths and feed him a meal every day and for 12 hours two meals. He lost all of the pressure of sales and is much happier. He would like more, but right now he just happy to have found a job. Good luck.
When I see so many people, late 40s and 50s who worked every day of their lives, going that they have been taught is right. Maybe playing a little more grass hopper than a ant with buying too many over priced things and unneeded things. Loose every thing because the damn predatory capitalist sent their jobs out of the country, so "they" could make "more profit".
So many of these people drank the KoolAid :koolaid: of we don't need to manufacture any thing, we need high tech jobs. It sure didn't work. I wonder how many of these people you see riding around in the new or newer foreign car is under water on it and their house.
Christian woman sentenced to death in Pakistan 'for blasphemy'
A Christian woman has been sentenced to hang in Pakistan after being convicted of defaming the Prophet Mohammed.
Asia Bibi, a 45-year-old mother-of-five, denies blasphemy and told investigators that she was being persecuted for her faith in a country where Christians face routine harassment and discrimination.
Christian groups and human rights campaigners condemned the verdict and called for the blasphemy laws to be repealed.
Her supporters say she will now appeal against the sentence handed down in a local court in the town of Sheikhupura, near Lahore, Pakistan.
Ashiq Masih, her husband, said he had not had the heart to break the news to two of their children.
"I haven't told two of my younger daughters about the court's decision," he said. "They asked me many times about their mother but I can't get the courage to tell them that the judge has sentenced their mother to capital punishment for a crime she never committed." Mrs Bibi has been held in prison since June last year.
The court heard she had been working as a farmhand in fields with other women, when she was asked to fetch drinking water.
Some of the other women – all Muslims – refused to drink the water as it had been brought by a Christian and was therefore "unclean", according to Mrs Bibi's evidence, sparking a row.
The incident was forgotten until a few days later when Mrs Bibi said she was set upon by a mob.
The police were called and took her to a police station for her own safety.
Shahzad Kamran, of the Sharing Life Ministry Pakistan, said: "The police were under pressure from this Muslim mob, including clerics, asking for Asia to be killed because she had spoken ill of the Prophet Mohammed.
"So after the police saved her life they then registered a blasphemy case against her." He added that she had been held in isolation for more than a year before being sentenced to death on Monday.
"The trial was clear," he said. "She was innocent and did not say those words." Earlier this year, Pakistan's internet service providers were ordered to block Facebook to prevent access to supposedly blasphemous images.
Human rights groups believe the law is often used to discriminate against religious minorities, such as the country's estimated three million Christians.
Although no one has ever been executed under Pakistan's blasphemy laws – most are freed on appeal – as many as 10 people are thought to have been murdered while on trial.
Ali Hasan Dayan, of Human Rights Watch, said the blasphemy laws were out of step with rights guaranteed under Pakistan's constitution and should be repealed.
"It's an obscene law," he said. "Essentially the blasphemy law is used as a tool of persecution and to settle other scores that are nothing to do with religion.
"It makes religious minorities particularly vulnerable because it's often used against them."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8120142/Christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy.html
^^
And on and on we go with the my Sky Daddy is better than your Sky Daddy crap. :mad:
If this doesn't show you that God sucks and the whole thing really is a bunch of crap, nothing will. How stupid is this group to be vexed over something as simple as this? :rotfl:
A Scottish church has voted to allow the singing of hymns and playing of musical instruments for the first time in 160 years, according to a report.
The Free Church of Scotland, which split from the Presbyterian Church of Scotland in 1843, currently only allows unaccompanied psalm singing during public worship.
The BBC reported that commissioners of the church voted by a majority of 14 — 98 to 84 —a plenary assembly in Edinburgh to allow hymns and instruments.
The vote had been called by conservatives who argued they should consult the church's membership before making a decision, the BBC said. It was the first plenary session since the church was founded.
"There are few of us who believe it is sinful to sing hymns ... If worship in other (churches) is acceptable to God how can it be unacceptable in our church?" one supporter of the move told the assembly, according to the church's website. "Many of us love to quote from hymns. I can speak a hymn, but if I ask you to sing it it is unacceptable?"
Supporters hope the move will attract more people to the church.
And the Reverend David Robertson, minister of St Peter's Free Church in Dundee, argued that traditional psalms would still be sung despite the decision, the BBC reported.
However, a report by the Church Board of Trustees said the rules should stay the same.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40287450/ns/world_news-europe/
Only about 22% of the people in the world profess that they are Christian. If the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus Christ heaven sure is going to be empty. I sure can't see in the 21ST Century that anyone would believe all of that religious bullshit.
If Pakistan executes that woman all aid should be stopped to them. The stupid bastards should be dead. They are the scum of the earth. Everybody in power tries to tell you that the Muslim religion is peaceful, my ass, it evil. Hell their Koran tells you that if you won't convert, we will kill you. Isn't that enough to tell you the bastards want you dead. Because I am sure not converting, I want to "Reload" as Palin says.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2010/12/17/dnt.virgin.candy.wupw?hpt=T2 (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2010/12/17/dnt.virgin.candy.wupw?hpt=T2)
It seems to happen every few months: someone sees an image of Christ -- in everything from French toast to a grilled-cheese sandwich.
Now just a few days before Christmas, a West Toledo semi-retired man thinks he's found the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus in a piece of hard holiday candy.
The piece of hard tack nearly gave James Burrows a heart attack. The 63-year old immediately saw the image of Christ in the Christmas candy, along with the Virgin Mary.. . .
http://www.foxtoledo.com/dpp/news/local/Toledo-man-sees-Christ--Virgin-Mary-in-Christmas-candy (http://www.foxtoledo.com/dpp/news/local/Toledo-man-sees-Christ--Virgin-Mary-in-Christmas-candy)
Sweet (literally) baby jeebus and the virgin herself! :spooked: :biggrin:
I think it looks like Jacko and a little kid!
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/155864_484042354699_47103549699_5657724_946885_n_20101216174258_320_240.jpg)
I saw that earlier but didn't have time to post it. :rotfl:
You beat me to it.
Quote from: Locutus on December 17, 2010, 03:46:15 PM
I saw that earlier but didn't have time to post it. :rotfl:
You beat me to it.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
I guess you have to be "Blessed" to see it, which I don't. Let us :pray: :pope:
I see Michael Jackson and a little kid! :spooked:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 17, 2010, 03:54:11 PM
I see Michael Jackson and a little kid! :spooked:
you know I kind of see that too, now that you mentioned it.... :spooked:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 17, 2010, 04:02:48 PM
you know I kind of see that too, now that you mentioned it.... :spooked:
I know! :spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
I see a piece of dark hard candy with light spots on it. I just ain't no fun tonight. :biggrin:
Quote from: me on December 18, 2010, 12:55:27 AM
I see a piece of dark hard candy with light spots on it. I just ain't no fun tonight. :biggrin:
And this is different how????? :icon_twisted:
(http://media.fukung.net/images/6925/2158.jpg)
^^
That's awesome!
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/mai91A355.jpg)
TAX BREAKS FOR NOAH'S ARK OK'D.
The Kentucky Tourism Development finance Authority granted preliminary approval for state tax incentives for the project. Just what the poor tax payers of Kentucky needs another Mickey Mouse God park. :preach: Put something in the pot for God boys and girls. Just what we a need a bible sized Noah's Ark.
Just another example of how Americans don't select for intelligence, genetically, in their propagation. Between the Holy Land park, Noah's Ark and American Idol (read Adle), we really don't stand a chance of progressing toward anything a civilized society should become. We just can't get past the Bronze Age, and it shows.
Quote from: dan foster on January 16, 2011, 10:03:23 PM
Just another example of how Americans don't select for intelligence, genetically, in their propagation. Between the Holy Land park, Noah's Ark and American Idol (read Adle), we really don't stand a chance of progressing toward anything a civilized society should become. We just can't get past the Bronze Age, and it shows.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus saves, Dan Foster. Put something in the pot boy. :stirthepot: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on January 16, 2011, 11:13:33 PM
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus saves, Dan Foster. Put something in the pot boy. :stirthepot: :biggrin:
Pot, laced with morphine, is pretty good ;>)
http://www.youtube.com/v/RMR-yPA4lsY&feature=related
:biggrin:
There's that bump the thread needed. :yes:
This pretty much puts all of the bullshit to rest. (http://godisimaginary.com/)
Quote from: Locutus on November 11, 2011, 09:24:10 PM
:biggrin:
There's that bump the thread needed. :yes:
:icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on November 11, 2011, 09:37:46 PM
This pretty much puts all of the bullshit to rest. (http://godisimaginary.com/)
This is really good EX. I haven't seen this one but it is one of the many I researched in my path to Atheism. Came from a overly religious mother. It took me a long time to say out loud that I was a Atheist.
By being brought up as a Christian I was afraid to utter this word, because if I said it and if there was a God. He would smite me. Well, I said it and I'm still here.
I will say I am an Atheist, I don't believe there is a God. I don't believe there is a Devil. I do believe we are Star Dust and we will return to the Universe from whince we came and we will become a part of the endless and timeless place we call SPACE.
Is there anyone else that will say that they are an Atheist. Or are you still afraid. Let there be Peace in the Universe. :smile:
Where is the Christian's God.
The Crystal Cathedral is bankrupt. Rev. Robert H. Schuller who started a drive inn church started this glass green house church, after bilking million of dollars out of his sheeple flock.
If the Christian God is all powerful, why don't he save this large over priced piece of GLASS. :confused:
I am a Christian, and extremely confident and content with my decision to be one. We all have to make these decisions and live with them.
Troll, I have never, ever tried to shove my beliefs down no one, and I never will.
I have "faith"....based upon my understanding of the Bible and what I was taught. I have "faith" based upon personal experiences that I have gone through. I have "faith" not just blindly, but because of what I accept as truths.
Not sure why I am even posting this, because I'm quite certain it will only lead to some ridicule, but, I just want to say that I do not think God Sucks.......
:yes:
Troll, I just read you last response....can't answer your question as to why God didn't save a piece of glass. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.....I have no love or loss of any love with Schuller...he may be a Christian or he may be a big crook.........I really don't follow guys like him, nor do I care what he has to say or offer. If people want to give him money, it is between him and the people. If he is screwing them....I think he will have a lot of explaining to do one of these days.....but, he in not any worse than what our government does to us.
I am only concerned with my family and my close friends.......and what is best for them.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 17, 2011, 11:44:52 AM
I am only concerned with my family and my close friends.......and what is best for them.
Because Jesus taught selfishness?
Quote from: Exterminator on November 17, 2011, 11:50:13 AM
Because Jesus taught selfishness?
(I know better than to even try)
That statement CLEARLY tells me YOU have NO understanding about Jesus or Christianity.
Yeah, that Schuller story is pretty unbelievable.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 17, 2011, 11:53:12 AM
That statement CLEARLY tells me YOU have NO understanding about Jesus or Christianity.
I used to consider myself a Christian but people like you made me take a long, hard look at what that really meant and I decided it was all hypocritical bullshit.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 17, 2011, 12:19:34 PM
I used to consider myself a Christian but people like you made me take a long, hard look at what that really meant and I decided it was all hypocritical bullshit.
And it's people like you who give atheists a bad rap. You are going to end up one of those bitter old men that no one wants anything to do with if you're the same offline as you are online. You really need an attitude adjustment.....bad.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 17, 2011, 12:19:34 PM
I used to consider myself a Christian but people like you made me take a long, hard look at what that really meant and I decided it was all hypocritical bullshit.
I used to be in that group as well. However, it wasn't so much the people that did it for me, it was the logical thought that came from a robust education, and not being too fearful to question what I had been led to believe from birth. That's what most people don't get about atheists. Most of us have been down that road, so we understand completely what they're talking about. '
This kind of sums up an educated view of the bible and religion:
"If the Bible is mistaken in telling us where we came from, how can we trust it to tell us where we're going ?" — Justin Brown.
Quote from: me on November 17, 2011, 12:34:12 PM
And it's people like you who give atheists a bad rap. You are going to end up one of those bitter old men that no one wants anything to do with if you're the same offline as you are online. You really need an attitude adjustment.....bad.
Coming from someone with as much experience as you obviously have with being old and bitter, I'll take that under advisement!
(http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/laugh_clown_laugh2.jpg)
:biggrin:
No he don't!... :no:
* doesn't
...and you're right, he doesn't...because he doesn't exist.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 21, 2011, 09:40:20 AM
* doesn't
...and you're right, he doesn't...because he doesn't exist.
can you prove it?
God exists. I am sure he does. I will tell him you are a really great fellow. a little opininated, sure, but arent we all? I know he listens to me.
Dont yell at me and I will tell you about my conversation with God.
I was really sick, everyone here knows that. I had gone to doctors in Cleveland, and on to Tulsa. Nothing was working. One evening I was sitting on a bench at the cancer institute, I was watching birds play around in the trees. I said why me God? I have so much to do, so much family to love. I am not ready to be this. Can I have more time?
And I heard a voice as plain as i would hear a man standing beside me. A soft voice, and gentle, he said, "I am here". It was overwhelming, I promise.
I know, not much of a conversation was it?
But it was enough. And it is why I know.
Quote from: damfast on November 21, 2011, 09:59:47 AM
God exists. I am sure he does. I will tell him you are a really great fellow. a little opininated, sure, but arent we all? I know he listens to me.
Dont yell at me and I will tell you about my conversation with God.
I was really sick, everyone here knows that. I had gone to doctors in Cleveland, and on to Tulsa. Nothing was working. One evening I was sitting on a bench at the cancer institute, I was watching birds play around in the trees. I said why me God? I have so much to do, so much family to love. I am not ready to be this. Can I have more time?
And I heard a voice as plain as i would hear a man standing beside me. A soft voice, and gentle, he said, "I am here". It was overwhelming, I promise.
I know, not much of a conversation was it?
But it was enough. And it is why I know.
Awesome! I too have had similar experiences, enough to know within my soul that HE is there.
I am very happy for you!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 21, 2011, 10:20:48 AM
Awesome! I too have had similar experiences, enough to know within my soul that HE is there.
I am very happy for you!
Me, too...but I was on acid.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 21, 2011, 10:29:50 AM
Me, too...but I was on acid.
that does not surprise me ONE bit.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 21, 2011, 11:06:31 AM
that does not surprise me ONE bit.
And it shouldn't! (http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/high-iq-linked-to-drug-use/)
Quote from: Exterminator on November 21, 2011, 11:19:36 AM
And it shouldn't! (http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/high-iq-linked-to-drug-use/)
Yeah, you go with that!!... :rolleyes:
Talk about believing EVERYTHING you read... :rolleyes:
again, just some plain simple common sense seems to be lost by so many people these days. lmao! ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 21, 2011, 11:22:34 AM
Yeah, you go with that!!... :rolleyes:
Talk about believing EVERYTHING you read... :rolleyes:
again, just some plain simpleton common sense seems to be lost by so many people these days. lmao! ;D
I fixed this for you. Your response doesn't surprise me as I would never mistake you for one of those foolish people who believes in all of that science mumbo-jumbo.
And by the way, common sense would dictate that if you can't see it, hear it, smell it, touch it or taste it, it doesn't exist.
AND THAT IS THE COMMON SENSE OF THE NO WISDOM OF MAN!
THOSE WHO CAN'T HEAR AND SEE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO FAITH!
AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT AND HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH THAT FACT!
YOUR LIFE YOUR RIGHT TO YOUR BELIEF!
Quote from: incognito on November 21, 2011, 11:41:05 AM
AND THAT IS THE COMMON SENSE OF THE NO WISDOM OF MAN!
THOSE WHO CAN'T HEAR AND SEE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO FAITH!
AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT AND HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH THAT FACT!
YOUR LIFE YOUR RIGHT TO YOUR BELIEF!
And I agree with YOU on this Don, 100%
THE DAY MANKIND CAN CREATE LIFE WITHOUT USING ANYTHING CREATED BY GOD!
I JUST MIGHT AGREE WITH YOUR BELIEF!
SEEING AS HOW EVERYTHING OF CREATION IS OF GOD!
THAT CANNOT BE DONE!
Hmmmm.....last time I checked, unprotected sex leads to the creation of life with no deity needed. :wink:
WITHOUT THE WISDOM OF GOD THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE AN OPTION!
IS THAT THE SAME FOR AN AMOEBA?
OR WERE YOU EXPECTED THE STANDARD ANSWER?
THAT GOD CREATED MAN AND WOMAN!
AS I SAID WITHOUT USING ANYTHING CREATED BY GOD!
Quote from: incognito on November 21, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
WITHOUT THE WISDOM OF GOD THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE AN OPTION!
IS THAT THE SAME FOR AN AMOEBA?
An amoeba reproduces asexually, humans reproduce sexually. Both are examples of life creating life sans a deity.
Humans make humans. It happens every day.
Quote from: incognito on November 21, 2011, 12:05:10 PM
OR WERE YOU EXPECTED THE STANDARD ANSWER?
THAT GOD CREATED MAN AND WOMAN!
AS I SAID WITHOUT USING ANYTHING CREATED BY GOD!
And there voluminous amounts of scientific evidence that show that humans weren't created by any deity.
FROM WHENCE DOES IT COME!
AND WHAT CAME FIRST THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG?
SCIENCE!
THE IDEOLOGY OF MAN!
MANS SO CALLED PROOF THERE IS NO GOD!
YET MAN CANNOT CREATE LIFE FROM DIRT AND PUT THE BREATH OF LIFE INTO IT!
AND TO ARGUE THAT POINT ONE MUST ARGUE THE POINT THAT MAN AND THE EARTH ARE NOT OF THE SAME COMPOSITE MAKEUP!
THE POINT THAT IS LOST UPON MAN IS THAT WHAT YOU SEE AS YOUR FELLOW MAN IS A MENTAL IMAGE!
WHAT YOUR SEE AS REAL IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED BY MAN TO ACCEPT!
ALL OF EXISTENCE IS OF THE MIND!
LIFE ITSELF IS A CONSCIOUSNESS OF REALITY!
NOT THE PHYSICALITY OF IT!
THE SAME OF THE PERCEPTION OF COLOR!
HOW DO YOU KNOW RED IS RED?
SOMEONE INSTILLED AND IMBEDDED IT IN YOUR MENTAL PROCESS OF HUMAN ACCEPTANCE!
THE MENTAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE HUMAN FORMS COMES FROM THE NEED OF A FOCAL POINT OF UNDERSTANDING FOR THE HUMAN MIND!
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." -- Dr. Gregory House, M.D. :wink:
If anyone would like to educate themselves further about human origins, this is a link to a documentary that does a wonderful job. Wonderful source of enlightenment.
http://becominghuman.org/node/interactive-documentary
NATURALLY!
USE THE MIND OF MAN TO PROVE A POINT OF THE MIND OF MAN!
HOW INTELLECTUAL!
THOUGH I HAVE A RUDIMENTARY UNDERSTANDING OF HUMANNESS!
I RELY ON GOD FOR MY UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY AND NOT THE MIND OF MAN!
THE ONLY BOOK I GO TO FRO DIALOGUE IS THE WORD OF GOD!
EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST ENTERTAINMENT!
A BASIS FOR CONVERSATION AND DIALOGUE WITH THE HUMAN SPECIES!
MAYBE ONE OF THESE DAYS HUMANS WILL UNDERSTAND!
THOUGH I LIVE AND SHALL DIE YOUR LIFE!
I AM NOT ONE OF YOU!
Quote from: incognito on November 21, 2011, 12:47:03 PM
THOUGH I HAVE A RUDIMENTARY UNDERSTANDING OF HUMANNESS!
I RELY ON GOD FOR MY UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY AND NOT THE MIND OF MAN!
Just when does he talk to you, in your sleep, in the garden, in the clothes closet. How about your car.
Just where do you sign up for the educational courses that your God has.
It sound like you have been talking to yourself to much. It's time to come out of the dark and look at the sun that the Universe made for us. :eye: :sun:
Quote from: Locutus on November 21, 2011, 12:41:40 PM
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." -- Dr. Gregory House, M.D. :wink:
I think the term "religious" is extremely misused. I also think having a faith in a creator of all things is not only reasonable but extremely logical.
To worship God and to give Him THANKS is a minimal task and something I will always do without an ounce of remorse, regardless how much those who disagree with me.
To my dying day, I will worship Him......period.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 21, 2011, 12:59:26 PM
I think the term "religious" is extremely misused. I also think having a faith in a creator of all things is not only reasonable but extremely logical.
If one were to go with the supposition of a creator, and even that's a stretch because it begs obvious questions, how exactly do you conclude that said creator is the deity described in your bible?
I HAVE BUT ONE PURPOSE LEFT IN LIFE!
TO AWAKEN THE SONS OF GOD UPON THE EARTH!
THE ONE MOMENT I DEARLY AWAIT SO I CAN PUT THIS WORLD BEHIND ME!
AND NO MAN CAN CREATE THAT MOMENT!
AND THE WORLD SHALL RUE WHEN IT IS DONE!
IT IS ALL A MENTAL THING!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 21, 2011, 12:59:26 PM
I think the term "religious" is extremely misused. I also think having a faith in a creator of all things is not only reasonable but extremely logical.
To worship God and to give Him THANKS is a minimal task and something I will always do without an ounce of remorse, regardless how much those who disagree with me.
To my dying day, I will worship Him......period.
As who one who don't believe in all of the magic, hoke pokes and smoke and mirrors that is find with me.
I don't care if you want to worship Volkswagens or mushrooms, that's fine. But when you try to get federal laws passed to stick your nose in my business or other people's business that's when your funny stuff come to an end.
Religion is like anything else. If it sound to good to be true, most likely it isn't true. Think about in Hawk and read and watch something about the Universe. :yes: :yes: :yes:
Quote from: The Troll on November 21, 2011, 01:10:30 PM
As who one who don't believe in all of the magic, hoke pokes and smoke and mirrors that is find with me.
I don't care if you want to worship Volkswagens or mushrooms, that's fine. But when you try to get federal laws passed to stick your nose in my business or other people's business that's when your funny stuff come to an end.
Religion is like anything else. If it sound to good to be true, most likely it isn't true. Think about in Hawk and read and watch something about the Universe. :yes: :yes: :yes:
Troll, for what it is worth, I LOVE to read about science and our universe. It is amazing to me. How could it not be.
Also, I have never wanted anything forced by law, according to my religion. I am against MOST abortions, but only want NO FEDERAL tax dollars used for any. Let the States decide.
I have my strong opinions, based upon my beliefs...and that may dictated on how I vote on a particular issue, but that is no different than you voting on an issue based upon YOUR opinions.
I'm not a Jerry Falwel fan or an Oral Roberts fan.........I am a fan of my Mom & Dad and Jesus Christ....and OH, of course Walter Payton.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 21, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Troll, for what it is worth, I LOVE to read about science and our universe. It is amazing to me. How could it not be.
Also, I have never wanted anything forced by law, according to my religion. I am against MOST abortions, but only want NO FEDERAL tax dollars used for any. Let the States decide.
I have my strong opinions, based upon my beliefs...and that may dictated on how I vote on a particular issue, but that is no different than you voting on an issue based upon YOUR opinions.
I'm not a Jerry Falwel fan or an Oral Roberts fan.........I am a fan of my Mom & Dad and Jesus Christ....and OH, of course Walter Payton.
OK Henery, what ever you say. :wink: :smile: Walter Payton? :laugh:
Quote from: The Troll on November 21, 2011, 01:27:17 PM
OK Henery, what ever you say. :wink: :smile: Walter Payton? :laugh:
How can you NOT be a fan of Walter Payton? He was the best! on and off the field!
okay, a little off topic, but I was on a roll... ;)
Walter Payton certainly did not suck.
Quote from: Locutus on November 21, 2011, 01:30:56 PM
Walter Payton certainly did not suck.
But Jerry Sandusky did! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on November 21, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
But Jerry Sandusky did! :icon_twisted:
badum-CHING (rimshot)
Quote from: Exterminator on November 21, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
But Jerry Sandusky did! :icon_twisted:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Touché!
Quote from: Exterminator on November 21, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
But Jerry Sandusky did! :icon_twisted:
giggling here. bet he will again soon....
btw.
somewhere back there someone said that you cant make a person using dirt.
splain this to me:
an egg has no heart, lungs, blood. just an egg. but it turns into a chicken. how???
Quote from: damfast on November 22, 2011, 08:43:49 AM
giggling here. bet he will again soon....
btw.
somewhere back there someone said that you cant make a person using dirt.
splain this to me:
an egg has no heart, lungs, blood. just an egg. but it turns into a chicken. how???
EVOLUTION
:biggrin:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/14j2hj6.png)
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
:biggrin:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/14j2hj6.png)
I SEE A GOD AND A FUTURE YOU DON'T WANT!
AND MORE POWER TO YOU!
I PRAY YOU ARE RIGHT FOR YOUR SAKE AND TIME IN ETERNITY!
A FATE ALL OF MAN MUST FACE!
I'm quite comfortable with science and reason rather than myths. :wink:
BTW, here's the article that goes with the picture. Interesting thing is, the content has been flagged as inappropriate by some of the readers on CNN's website. The lengths to which some will go when their beliefs are questioned is astounding at times..
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-706810?hpt=hp_bn2
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST ATHEIST!
FOR THE LONGEST I BELIEVED I WAS ONE!
THAT IS THE BASE FROM WHICH I FOUND GNOSTICISM!
ALL I KNEW WAS I DIDN'T BELIEVE IN WHAT I WAS BEING TAUGHT!
THE WORD I SEE IS NOT THE WORD EVERYONE ELSE SEES I GUESS!
I DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY!
EVERY MIRACLE I SEE HAS AN ANSWER I SEE!
IN MY MIND THE ARE BASICALLY METAPHORIC!
THE BIBLE IS WRITTEN IN PARABLES!
THE BASIS BEHIND MY:
THOSE WITH EYES TO SEE SHALL SEE!
AND
THOSE WITH EARS TO HEAR SHALL HEAR!
THE BIBLE IS MADE TO BE UNDERSTOOD BEFORE BELIEVED!
MANKIND GETS STUCK ON THEIR NEED FOR THE SUPERNATURAL!
I SEE AND FEEL A DIFFERENT STORY AND LESSON!
THE REASON I AM NO CHRISTIAN!
I AM MORE MENTAL THAN RELIGION BASED!
I BELIEVE THE BOOK !
BY CONTEXT AND NOT CONTENT!
I understand completely. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
BTW, here's the article that goes with the picture. Interesting thing is, the content has been flagged as inappropriate by some of the readers on CNN's website. The lengths to which some will go when their beliefs are questioned is astounding at times..
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-706810?hpt=hp_bn2
Now CNN caved and yanked the story. :mad: :mad:
AS THE BIBLE SPEAKS!
I SEE THE BEGINNING AS MORE AKIN TO A PENAL COLONY OR A LAB PROJECT!
WITH THE BANNING OF THE ANGELS!
AND THE GARDEN PROJECT!
BECAUSE EVEN HE BIBLE ADMITS!
THE EARTH WAS ALREADY POPULATED!
THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF ONE PEOPLE!
BEING PLACED UPON THE EARTH!
QUARANTINED FROM THE INHABITANTS OF EARTH!
A RULE WAS BROKEN WHICH JEOPARDIZED THE PROJECT!
SO THE INHABITANTS HAD TO BE REMOVED!
THE TERM GOD?
A WORD WE KNOW BECAUSE OF THE INTERPRETATION OF LANGUAGE!
THE NAME OF GOD WAS UNPRONOUNCEABLE IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE EARTH AT THE TIME!
SO AS LANGUAGES GO SO GOES THE GOD WORD!
ERGO:
GOD/ALLAH!
SAME WORD DIFFERENT LANGUAGE!
PLUS THE RELIGION OF GOD IS NOT EUROPEAN!
JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THEY ACQUIRED THEY STOLE IT FROM THE CONTINENT FROM WHICH IT BELONGED AND MADE IT THEIR OWN!
AND EVEN ADMITTEDLY BY THE WORDS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AND THE WORDS OF SAUL/PAUL!
CHANGED IT TO FIT THEIR IDEOLOGY!
IT IS NOT THE ORIGINAL BELIEF OF THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE WHO BEGAN THE BELIEF!
IT WAS ALTERED TO FIT THE GREEK AND ROMAN WAY OF LIFE!
AS THE ROMANS DID THEIR BEST TO KILL OFF THE TRUE BELIEVERS OF THAT FAITH!
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2011, 02:42:02 PM
Now CNN caved and yanked the story. :mad: :mad:
It's back now. Here's the content of the article in case they change their minds again:
iReport — For a second year in a row, American Atheists is posting seasonal billboards. One of the billboards is located on the New Jersey side, upper left, just before entering the Lincoln Tunnel into Manhattan. The Lincoln Tunnel carries almost 120,000 vehicles per day, making it one of the busiest vehicular tunnels in the world and a prime location for a billboard.
The controversial billboard is the next stage of the "You KNOW it's a MYTH" campaign, which began last year.
This year, they are placing myths on the billboard and asking people what they see? The reason is to encourage people to ask themselves why one god is different from gods they call myths. It's up to them to answer.
According to the American Atheists' website, at www.atheists.org, "there is no effort here to convert theists into atheists, but there IS an attempt to get the church pew atheists to consider what they are doing. If they look at our billboard and see four myths, including Jesus, then why are they going to church and donating money? Why are they going through this ridiculous motion of pretending to believe in a myth, just to please other people?"
"Some atheists don't even know they are atheists, while others are fully aware but remain closeted. This is why we ask all church-goers to consider honestly their theological beliefs this season and ask if and why they are pretending to believe the unbelievable. It is our hope that these atheists will come out of the closet, come clean to their friends and families and start living an honest life of reason and rationality."
"Many atheists celebrate some version of Christmas! There is nothing wrong with gifts, trees, singing and (most of all) family togetherness. None of this requires the pretense of a belief in a god. We believe the season should include honesty -- with oneself and loved ones."
So, take a look at the billboard and ask yourself what you see. Asking that question to the group of people in my car as we came upon the billboard, resulted in some interesting conversation!
Happy Holidays!
I READ IT BEFORE THEY PULLED IT!
AND BEFORE I STARTED POSTING ON THE SUBJECT!
JUST MORE IGNORANCE AND ARROGANCE ON THEIR PART!
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
:biggrin:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/14j2hj6.png)
Damn they forgot the Easter Bunnie and the Tooth Fairy. :tink:
I BELIEVE IN THE ESSENCE OF THE BEING!
MORE THAN I DO THE PHYSICAL BEING!
THE PHYSICAL BEING IS TEMPORARY!
THE ESSENCE OF THE BEING IS ETERNAL!
THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK OR BELIEVE BOUT ME!
IT'S ALL TEMPORARY!
THIS JUST MY TIME IN LIMBO!
BETWEEN THE TEMPORARY AND THE ETERNAL!
REACHING FOR THE NEXT LEVEL INSTEAD OF BEING SATISFIED WITH THE TEMPORARY!
MY TEMPORARY EXISTENCE IS QUICKLY COMING TO AND END!
THE ESSENCE OF MY BEING WILL BE RELEASED FROM THIS PRISON KNOWN AS THE BODY OF MAN!
AND THEN MY TRUE GROWTH BEGINS OR COMES TO AN END!
ALL DEPENDS ON IF I HAVE LEARNED THE PROPER LESSONS IN THIS TEMPORARY POSITION!
I LEARNED AS A PRE TEEN!
THE WHITE CHRISTIAN god WAS NOT MEANT FOR ME!
THAT IS A god OF NO LOVE AND PLENTY OF HATE!
No argument from me...........to either one of you guys.
We all have to live (and die) with our own decisions....
Quote from: The Troll on November 22, 2011, 03:35:39 PM
Damn they forgot the Easter Bunnie and the Tooth Fairy. :tink:
Yup! Those could have been easily included as well.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 22, 2011, 04:21:31 PM
No argument from me...........to either one of you guys.
We all have to live (and die) with our own decisions....
Henery, Incognito is off his med's again. Comparing you to him and his sky high preaching. You're a flat liner. :smitten:
Troll, Incog is NOT crazy...he is pretty darn wise....I don't agree with everything he says, but, HE IS pretty darn interesting....and is the most honest person on here...and tells it like it is.
I thought I was the most honest person on here. :razz: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on November 22, 2011, 09:56:14 PM
I thought I was the most honest person on here. :razz: ;D
Okay, YOU might be number two.... :razz: ;D
Placed here by request! :biggrin:
. . .And we pray to our lord, who we know is American
He reigns from on high
He speaks to us through middlemen
And he shepherds his flock
We sing out and praise his name
He supports us in war
He presides over football games
And the right will prevail
All our troubles will be resolved
We hold faith above all
Unless there's money or sex involved. . . (Eagles - Frail Grasp On the Big Picture)
:biggrin:
I have no idea who would have made such a request. :no:
It sure is a helluva long road out of Eden.
Quote from: Locutus on December 13, 2011, 05:09:41 PM
:biggrin:
I have no idea who would have made such a request. :no:
:wings: :lipsrsealed2:
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 13, 2011, 06:04:38 PM
It sure is a helluva long road out of Eden.
It is indeed! (If we were ever there in the first place!)
For me and a whole lot of people, God doesn't suck. For he doesn't exist. It's the people who believe in him that sucks. :jc:
Quote from: The Troll on December 13, 2011, 11:42:21 PM
For me and a whole lot of people, God doesn't suck. For he doesn't exist. It's the people who believe in him that sucks. :jc:
No, actually it's the intolerance of people who don't that sucks.
did i just hear someone say locustus is number two??? ewwwwwwww.
happy thursday.
Quote from: me on December 15, 2011, 03:48:32 AM
No, actually it's the intolerance of people who don't that sucks.
:finger2: :kiss:
Daniel Webster once said: "If we and our posterity...live always in the fear of God and shall respect His Commandments...we may have the highest hopes of the future fortunes of our country.... But if we...neglect religious instruction and authority; violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."
I may have to reassess my position that God sucks. Michelle Duggar miscarried after all. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Locutus on December 15, 2011, 12:05:42 PM
I may have to reassess my position that God sucks. Michelle Duggar miscarried after all. :icon_twisted:
that was mean.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 15, 2011, 12:11:33 PM
that was mean.
:biggrin:
Well she said it was his will! :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 15, 2011, 12:14:07 PM
:biggrin:
Well she said it was his will! :yes:
I will pray for you!!!
:razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 15, 2011, 12:15:07 PM
I will pray for you!!!
:razz:
I think you're wasting your time.
For example we will take the Sanctuary of Our Ladies of Lourdes. Where million and million of sick people come to pray and drink and bath in the spring water to be healed of their diseases and problems.
In 1858 a young girl, Bernadette Soubirous claimed that she has a apparitions of the Lady of Lourdes. In that and all of the preceding years Millions and Million of people came there for a miracle.
In all of that time the Catholic Church as recognized only 16 miracles. That's worse than just plain chance. Praying and religion won't get you anything. :pray: :preach: :pope: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 15, 2011, 12:05:42 PM
I may have to reassess my position that God sucks. Michelle Duggar miscarried after all. :icon_twisted:
Wonder if they'll charge her with murder? After all, if it was really a human life then she is responsible for it, and she must have done/ate/drank/smoked something to murder her child!
Quote from: Palehorse on December 15, 2011, 07:36:40 PM
Wonder if they'll charge her with murder? After all, if it was really a human life then she is responsible for it, and she must have done/ate/drank/smoked something to murder her child!
She had all of the warning of a chance of death by what she went through with the 18th and 19th babies. But to go for 20 she knew what the chance of the baby dieing. :doh: I hope they have spaded her. :yes: :yes:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 15, 2011, 07:36:40 PM
Wonder if they'll charge her with murder? After all, if it was really a human life then she is responsible for it, and she must have done/ate/drank/smoked something to murder her child!
At a minimum, she and ole' Jim Bob should be charged with blatant and gross stupidity. I can't believe some of the absolute shit that has come from their flapping traps, let alone the spectacle they made of Jubilee's memorial service. Those two are fucking attention whores basking in the additional attention a dead baby has brought them.
Quote from: Locutus on December 15, 2011, 08:14:29 PM
At a minimum, she and ole' Jim Bob should be charged with blatant and gross stupidity. I can't believe some of the absolute shit that has come from their flapping traps, let alone the spectacle they made of Jubilee's memorial service. Those two are fucking attention whores basking in the additional attention a dead baby has brought them.
Apparently, "stupidity has its privileges"! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 15, 2011, 08:43:11 PM
Apparently, "stupidity has its privileges"! :rolleyes:
Did you see the spectacle they made of Jubilee's fetus at the memorial service?
Quote from: Locutus on December 15, 2011, 08:46:51 PM
Did you see the spectacle they made of Jubilee's fetus at the memorial service?
Nope. . . not yet.
Oh hell. . . I have now and it makes me sick!
THEY HAVE A DIVISION OF KIDS AND FEEL IT NECESSARY TO PARADE THE STILLBORN FETUS????
WTF Is wrong with these jackasses?! :eek: :mad:
Just out of curiosity, why do you care so much? I think they were very foolish to risk another pregnancy and I would never encourage anyone one to have so many kids, but it really isn't something I will spend time and energy worrying about.
They're in tune with the Sky Daddy. That's what's wrong with them.
For those who want to look, here is a link to the images they put on public display at the memorial. It's not that bad, but I am going to add a "click at your own risk" disclaimer.
http://m.tmz.com/photos.ftl?gurl=http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/duggar_memorial_photos
Quote from: Palehorse on December 15, 2011, 08:54:24 PM
Oh hell. . . I have now and it makes me sick!
THEY HAVE A DIVISION OF KIDS AND FEEL IT NECESSARY TO PARADE THE STILLBORN FETUS????
WTF Is wrong with these jackasses?! :eek: :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on December 15, 2011, 09:02:39 PM
They're in tune with the Sky Daddy. That's what's wrong with them.
For those who want to look, here is a link to the images they put on public display at the memorial. It's not that bad, but I am going to add a "click at your own risk" disclaimer.
http://m.tmz.com/photos.ftl?gurl=http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/duggar_memorial_photos
FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!
i didnt look. sounds nasty.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh42/RexMundiinarcadia/athiesteve.jpg)
:rotfl: :biggrin:
:smile:
WHO are you bitching at anyway? It is not from me.
It seems to me that the only people bitching is the atheists, crying about Christians.
since I am the only Christian on this forum....who are you directing this at anyway? :confused: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 16, 2011, 03:42:13 PM
WHO are you bitching at anyway? It is not from me.
It seems to me that the only people bitching is the atheists, crying about Christians.
since I am the only Christian on this forum....who are you directing this at anyway? :confused: :rolleyes:
Oh that wasn't directed at anyone specifically. Just injecting a bit of humor around here. Although there is a lot of truth in the above, is there not?
Quote from: Locutus on December 16, 2011, 03:44:10 PM
Oh that wasn't directed at anyone specifically. Just injecting a bit of humor around here. Although there is a lot of truth in the above, is there not?
not as much as you think there may be..........MOST of the Christians I know are much like myself. They don't even try to force Christian beliefs down anybody. They just work, raise their families and go to church on Sundays.
I know there are always going to be idiots, and christians are not prone to this..........but, this whole atheist movement is about as annoying..imo
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 16, 2011, 03:47:10 PM
not as much as you think there may be..........MOST of the Christians I know are much like myself.
I'm calling bullshit; the first four panels of that comic are examples of Chrisitans trying to force their religion onto others and you support legislating those things.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 16, 2011, 04:51:02 PM
I'm calling bullshit; the first four panels of that comic are examples of Chrisitans trying to force their religion onto others and you support legislating those things.
wrong again dickhead.....I'm against federal tax dollars used for abortions, I don't have hatred towards gays, I have never said atheist are evil, nor have I said to ban porn........YOU JUST assumed it.
The only thing close to this is I think marriage is between a man and a woman, but it is not a game changer in an election....THAT is the least of my worries regarding this Nation.
so BULLSHIT all you want.
Quote from: damfast on December 16, 2011, 08:49:37 AM
i didnt look. sounds nasty.
Wasn't nasty it was actually quite sad.
Quote from: me on December 16, 2011, 05:19:58 PM
Wasn't nasty it was actually quite sad.
Sad that it didn't stop them from using the fetus as a publicity stunt.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 16, 2011, 04:56:26 PM
I'm against federal tax dollars used for abortions.
Here is the first example of your being full of shit...federal tax dollars are not, by law, used for abortions but that didn't stop your ilk from trying to restrict all funding from Planned Parenthood; did it? For the record, I don't want federal tax dollars being used to subsidize your ill-advised breeding practices either but they are...and no one that I know of is supporting legislation to stop giving you breeders exemptions for your hell spawn.
QuoteI don't have hatred towards gays, I have never said atheist are evil, nor have I said to ban porn........YOU JUST assumed it.
The only thing close to this is I think marriage is between a man and a woman, but it is not a game changer in an election.
So you would or would not support an amendment banning same-sex marriage?
And quit fantasizing about my dickhead...you couldn't handle it and you're not my type.
Quote from: me on December 16, 2011, 05:19:58 PM
Wasn't nasty it was actually quite sad.
Sad is using your vagina as a clown car.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 16, 2011, 05:35:28 PM
Sad is using your vagina as a clown car.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Those two are a prime case in support of forced sterilization.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 16, 2011, 05:35:28 PM
Sad is using your vagina as a clown car.
Too bad you can't find someone who will let you use theirs. But then with an attitude like yours I can see why no one wants that little thing.
Quote from: me on December 16, 2011, 06:19:20 PM
Too bad you can't find someone who will let you use theirs. But then with an attitude like yours I can see why no one wants that little thing.
I know that your feeble old mind won't grasp this but the Queen Elizabeth looks small in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Don't blame me if your husband feels like intimacy with you is like throwing a hotdog down a hallway.
If an anti-abortion law was ever passed I want everyone who supports that law. To take, raise, feed, house, educate every one of the unwanted children they have forced to be born.
The Pro Life people don't want abortion for any reason. And the mother is forced to carry that unwanted baby to birth. When the baby hits the ground they don't want to have any thing to do with it. They don't want to pay to raise it.
All of their crying :cry: and caring about the baby is BULLSHIT. :trustme:
Quote from: Exterminator on December 16, 2011, 06:31:04 PM
I know that your feeble old mind won't grasp this but the Queen Elizabeth looks small in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Don't blame me if your husband feels like intimacy with you is like throwing a hotdog down a hallway.
Seems as though you're the one with the dinky dick complex here. I'm not the one putting someone else down to make myself look better 'cause I don't have a problem and neither does my better half. :wink:
Quote from: The Troll on December 16, 2011, 07:26:25 PM
. . .
All of their crying :cry: and caring about the baby is BULLSHIT. :trustme:
And that so many here see this provides me with a glimmer of hope. . .
Quote from: Exterminator on December 16, 2011, 05:35:28 PM
Sad is using your vagina as a clown car.
:eek: :food24: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :biggrin2:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 16, 2011, 10:08:55 PM
:eek: :food24: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :biggrin2:
Big, big, big, it's really must be Big. :wink: :yes: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: The Troll on December 16, 2011, 11:18:12 PM
Big, big, big, it's really must be Big. :wink: :yes: :laugh: :laugh:
Hopefully, Gawd will off her vagina next along with the rest of her reproductive organs. :yes:
Ya know, I don't understand the thought processes behind having that many children but the ultimate choice was theirs to make. They could obviously support them, you aren't having to, so why do you feel you have to judge, condemn them and make fun of them for their choice? Some people love big families and some don't want any kids. It's their business and their life.
Quote from: me on December 17, 2011, 12:57:27 AM
Ya know, I don't understand the thought processes behind having that many children but the ultimate choice was theirs to make. They could obviously support them, you aren't having to, so why do you feel you have to judge, condemn them and make fun of them for their choice? Some people love big families and some don't want any kids. It's their business and their life.
What happens if she dies. You surely know she has increased her early demise because of all of the babies she has delivered.
If she dies and her husband can't handle it. Who takes over? We do the government. :yes: :yes:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/bestoftv/2011/12/16/exp-mxp-suspended-for-tebowing.hln (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/bestoftv/2011/12/16/exp-mxp-suspended-for-tebowing.hln)
Quote from: me on December 16, 2011, 09:51:56 PM
Seems as though you're the one with the dinky dick complex here. I'm not the one putting someone else down to make myself look better 'cause I don't have a problem and neither does my better half. :wink:
LOL...go with that...you and your "half".
Quote from: The Troll on December 17, 2011, 09:04:25 AM
What happens if she dies. You surely know she has increased her early demise because of all of the babies she has delivered.
If she dies and her husband can't handle it. Who takes over? We do the government. :yes: :yes:
I rather doubt that since there are so many of them they would take care of each other. Why would the government have to take over?
Quote from: me on December 17, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
I rather doubt that since there are so many of them they would take care of each other. Why would the government have to take over?
I doubt that, but it depends upon the age and ability of the oldest amongst them, to care for the rest. In most cases when the ability of one survivor is questionable, the children become wards of the state.
Now that doesn't necessarily happen right away though, especially when one of the survivors is a parent. But should neighbors or friends become concerned enough over the children's welfare, and notify the authorities, that is when the process begins. . .Or when one of them gets into a domestic violence incident.
And that happens real quick in those cases.
Given the fact that the parents in this family have a propensity for thrusting their brood into the public spotlight, the demise of one of the parents could automatically put them onto the state radar.
It isn't beyond the realm of possibility but with a family that large it is highly unlikely. You all have are putting yourselves in the position of judge and jury based on the reasoning that they have had more children than you think they should have. She chose to use her body to have more children rather than aborting them and has just as much right to do so as a woman who chooses to abort a child.
She's a human cockroach.
Quote from: me on December 17, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
I rather doubt that since there are so many of them they would take care of each other. Why would the government have to take over?
Numb Nuts, I'm talking about money. Who going to provide all of the money it will be required to raise them properly. :wacko:
I don't think young kids working for minimum wage can provide it. :rolleyes: :wall:
Quote from: The Troll on December 18, 2011, 01:18:24 PM
Numb Nuts, I'm talking about money. Who going to provide all of the money it will be required to raise them properly. :wacko:
I don't think young kids working for minimum wage can provide it. :rolleyes: :wall:
Well numb nuts, I imagine they have life insurance and social security,
which he has paid in to, to help with the underage kids. We are not talking a family who is having kids to leach off of the system so they don't have to work here.
Quote from: me on December 18, 2011, 01:30:11 PM
Well numb nuts, I imagine they have life insurance and social security, which he has paid in to, to help with the underage kids. We are not talking a family who is having kids to leach off of the system so they don't have to work here.
If your party gets its way there won't
be any social security. . . then what?
Quote from: Palehorse on December 18, 2011, 02:48:25 PM
If your party gets its way there won't be any social security. . . then what?
Won't be any for the younger generation if things keep going as they are so I guess they're screwed either way.
Quote from: me on December 18, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
Won't be any for the younger generation if things keep going as they are so I guess they're screwed either way.
You're right about that, that there won't be a younger generation. Because if your party get in we be at war with Iran and the rest of the middle East and you'll kill them. :rifle: :yes:
Quote from: me on December 18, 2011, 01:30:11 PM
Well numb nuts, I imagine they have life insurance and social security, which he has paid in to, to help with the underage kids. We are not talking a family who is having kids to leach off of the system so they don't have to work here.
Social Security and Medicade! The father hasn't and will not have paid in enough to pay for all of them. Guess what, the taxpayers will pay for them. :doh:
It's amazing how you stickup for the stupid who have too many kids. But you don't want to pay for lunches at schools, head start, planed parenthood and pro life. Your logic is total off the scale of stupidity. :kiss: :jc:
:det:
typical liberal rhetoric....
Typical breeder response.
Quote from: The Troll on December 18, 2011, 03:49:34 PM
Social Security and Medicade! The father hasn't and will not have paid in enough to pay for all of them. Guess what, the taxpayers will pay for them. :doh:
It's amazing how you stickup for the stupid who have too many kids. But you don't want to pay for lunches at schools, head start, planed parenthood and pro life. Your logic is total off the scale of stupidity. :kiss: :jc:
:det:
Think Troll, think, if he makes enough to support that size family he is paying the max each year and with the oldest being at least 20 or 21 he has paid in a goodly sum of money. Besides not all of them would be getting it because they are of age, 18 or over, leaving only 6 to 9 which would even need it for any length of time depending on where the 2 sets of twins are in the mix.
If this were some couple having kids to live off the system from the get go you might have a bitch here but in this instance you are only putting someone down and judging them because they chose to have a large family. Their choice, their business not up to anyone to judge them period.
Quote from: me on December 18, 2011, 06:28:24 PM
Think Troll, think, if he makes enough to support that size family he is paying the max each year and with the oldest being at least 20 or 21 he has paid in a goodly sum of money. Besides not all of them would be getting it because they are of age, 18 or over, leaving only 6 to 9 which would even need it for any length of time depending on where the 2 sets of twins are in the mix.
If this were some couple having kids to live off the system from the get go you might have a bitch here but in this instance you are only putting someone down and judging them because they chose to have a large family. Their choice, their business not up to anyone to judge them period.
Just how much does he make and how much charity does the family get. Taking care of 21 people isn't cheap. And the kids, why put the load on them to take care of their siblings. I think you ask to much of them. But, I suppose you did it and made your kids do it. I suppose they have the right to have as many children as they want.
Just like Octuplet Mom who had 8 babies at one time on top of 6 other of her kids and she is a single mother. :doh:
Some where there is a time to use common sense. Common sense you don't seem to have. :jc:
Quote from: Exterminator on December 18, 2011, 05:03:32 PM
Typical breeder response.
You can say that again. He just like a baby Robin. Always got his mouth open and full of shit. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on December 18, 2011, 07:07:01 PM
Just how much does he make and how much charity does the family get. Taking care of 21 people isn't cheap. And the kids, why put the load on them to take care of their siblings. I think you ask to much of them. But, I suppose you did it and made your kids do it. I suppose they have the right to have as many children as they want.
Just like Octuplet Mom who had 8 babies at one time on top of 6 other of her kids and she is a single mother. :doh:
Some where there is a time to use common sense. Common sense you don't seem to have. :jc:
Now that is a classic example of someone who is using the system and is single. Apples to oranges.
You're all about a woman doing as she pleases with her body until it goes against your beliefs then you think you have a right to dictate. If she had chosen to abort that many pregnancies you would be just fine with it. Go figure.... :rolleyes:
Information on several websites state that Mr. and Mrs. Dugger are both licensed real estate agents and manage/own commercial properties. They built their 7000 sq ft. house debt free. I read an article about them several years ago and in it they said they were married several years (5 I think) before they had children and were debt free at the time and remain that way. That would have been 15 or more years before the tv show.
Quote from: Anne on December 18, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
Information on several websites state that Mr. and Mrs. Dugger are both licensed real estate agents and manage/own commercial properties. They built their 7000 sq ft. house debt free. I read an article about them several years ago and in it they said they were married several years (5 I think) before they had children and were debt free at the time and remain that way. That would have been 15 or more years before the tv show.
Given the current state of the economy and business environment in this country, I can't imagine that their business is doing very well at all. Property values are tanking nationwide, and all one really has to do is drive through the business district of whatever city you live in, and see the high number of commercial properties standing vacant, to understand that anyone in the commercial end of real estate, or real estate in general, is facing or enduring some pretty hard times right now.
And depending upon what state they live in, even if they own the property they occupy outright, unless their income stream can support the high property tax rates they risk being thrown out of their own homes over past due taxes. (Hence, we never really "own" the property / homes we possess.)
Now granted, with 19 tax deductions whatever their income stream is they likely pay little to no taxes on that income. . .
I personally know some real estate brokers who are working at Walmart because they cannot make it. They've had to let the majority of their staff go because business is so bad. . .
Mr. and Mrs. Dugger are the only ones who truly know their financial situation. I would guess that they have made a fair amount of money from the tv show in addition to their business. They seem to be conservative in their spending so they may be much better off than you think. The oldest son is married and lives with his wife and children, he manages or owns a used car lot. At any rate, I doubt if any of them will become dependent on welfare anytime soon.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 18, 2011, 08:32:25 PM
Given the current state of the economy and business environment in this country, I can't imagine that their business is doing very well at all. Property values are tanking nationwide, and all one really has to do is drive through the business district of whatever city you live in, and see the high number of commercial properties standing vacant, to understand that anyone in the commercial end of real estate, or real estate in general, is facing or enduring some pretty hard times right now.
And depending upon what state they live in, even if they own the property they occupy outright, unless their income stream can support the high property tax rates they risk being thrown out of their own homes over past due taxes. (Hence, we never really "own" the property / homes we possess.)
Now granted, with 19 tax deductions whatever their income stream is they likely pay little to no taxes on that income. . .
I personally know some real estate brokers who are working at Walmart because they cannot make it. They've had to let the majority of their staff go because business is so bad. . .
Was anyone prepared for things to be like they are now? The point is they had enough forethought to be debt free when things turned bad so aren't as likely to go under as someone who has a huge mortgage, credit card debt out the a$$, and was living beyond their means.
for what it is worth, I have not seen anywhere, one ounce of proof of any wrongdoings or any laws being broke by the Duggars. Those kids all appear to be very happy and loved.
move on.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 18, 2011, 08:32:25 PM
Now granted, with 19 tax deductions whatever their income stream is they likely pay little to no taxes on that income. . .
And there you have it...but they do use resources paid for with the taxes of others, ergo, are a burden on society.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2011, 08:52:22 AM
for what it is worth, I have not seen anywhere, one ounce of proof of any wrongdoings or any laws being broke by the Duggars.
I could make the same argument for maggots but I still don't like them.
Quote from: me on December 18, 2011, 07:48:31 PM
Now that is a classic example of someone who is using the system and is single. Apples to oranges.
You're all about a woman doing as she pleases with her body until it goes against your beliefs then you think you have a right to dictate. If she had chosen to abort that many pregnancies you would be just fine with it. Go figure.... :rolleyes:
Like I said, you don't have any common sense of the ability to convey any common sense to anyone else or condition of anything. Like I have said in the past, you are a very stupid person. What is so bad is, you get to vote. :groan:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2011, 08:52:22 AM
for what it is worth, I have not seen anywhere, one ounce of proof of any wrongdoings or any laws being broke by the Duggars. Those kids all appear to be very happy and loved.
move on.
Anything that against something they agree with is a wrong doing to be ridiculed and mocked. Must be a course in college or something. Mock and ridicule 101. Ex aced the course and Troll read the book. Too bad neither one made it through the common sense or cognitive reasoning course.
Quote from: me on December 19, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
Anything that against something they agree with is a wrong doing to be ridiculed and mocked. Must be a course in college or something. Mock and ridicule 101. Ex aced the course and Troll read the book. Too bad neither one made it through the common sense or cognitive reasoning course.
LOL? And you delude yourself that you're proficient at either? So wise and yet such a dismal failure in life; what's up with that?
Quote from: Exterminator on December 19, 2011, 12:55:47 PM
LOL? And you delude yourself that you're proficient at either? So wise and yet such a dismal failure in life; what's up with that?
Hum, you're the one with all the put downs and you call me the failure? Seems like you're the one with the inferiority complex here. Putting others down like you do only shows your need to feel good about yourself and you do that by belittling others.
Quote from: me on December 19, 2011, 03:11:14 PM
Hum, you're the one with all the put downs and you call me the failure? Seems like you're the one with the inferiority complex here. Putting others down like you do only shows your need to feel good about yourself and you do that by belittling others.
You might want to read back through some of your own posts. Just sayin'...
Who is "they"?
Quote from: me on December 19, 2011, 10:02:03 PM
??
Quote from: me on December 19, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
Anything that against something they agree with is a wrong doing to be ridiculed and mocked. Must be a course in college or something. Mock and ridicule 101. Ex aced the course and Troll read the book. Too bad neither one made it through the common sense or cognitive reasoning course.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 19, 2011, 10:03:03 PM
Oh, I was referring to Ex and Troll there.
Quote from: me on December 19, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
Anything that against something they agree with is a wrong doing to be ridiculed and mocked. Must be a course in college or something. Mock and ridicule 101. Ex aced the course and Troll read the book. Too bad neither one made it through the common sense or cognitive reasoning course.
I can understand your confusion, PH; I'm suer that sentence sounded good in her head.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 20, 2011, 09:28:49 AM
I can understand your confusion, PH; I'm suer sure that sentence sounded good in her head.
Fixed it for ya.
Oooo...a typo...good catch! That's probably the most productive you've been in years!
Quote from: Exterminator on December 20, 2011, 10:14:07 AM
Oooo...a typo...good catch! That's probably the most productive you've been in years!
:smile:
Bill Maher is back in the news again:
Maher is back in the news again for a comment he made about football player Tim Tebow, and this time some people on Twitter are calling for a boycott of HBO in protest. After the Denver Broncos lost to the Buffalo Bills on Christmas Eve, Maher tweeted, "Wow, Jesus just f***ked #TimTebow bad! And on Xmas Eve! Somewhere in hell Satan is tebowing, saying to Hitler 'Hey, Buffalo's killing them'"
:biggrin:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/zap-bill-mahers-tim-tebow-tweet-sparks-hbo-boycott-20111227,0,1891944.story
Quote from: Locutus on December 28, 2011, 12:10:51 PM
Bill Maher is back in the news again:
Maher is back in the news again for a comment he made about football player Tim Tebow, and this time some people on Twitter are calling for a boycott of HBO in protest. After the Denver Broncos lost to the Buffalo Bills on Christmas Eve, Maher tweeted, "Wow, Jesus just f***ked #TimTebow bad! And on Xmas Eve! Somewhere in hell Satan is tebowing, saying to Hitler 'Hey, Buffalo's killing them'"
:biggrin:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/zap-bill-mahers-tim-tebow-tweet-sparks-hbo-boycott-20111227,0,1891944.story
Let the dumbasses boycott HBO. The more they :cry: :cry: :cry: The more viewers Bill will get. :yeah: :jc:
I think maher is an ass. and disrespectful. I am not boycotting him, I don't have HBO, but would rather sew my head to the carpet than watch him, if I could.
why is it liberals hate tebow?
he has done nothing wrong, but stand up for his faith.
he is a great guy, and an up and coming star.
And I'm sure you would have supported him if he had been a muslim and bowed to Mecca before every game.
Quote from: followsthewolf on December 29, 2011, 01:16:22 PM
And I'm sure you would have supported him if he had been a muslim and bowed to Mecca before every game.
And I am sure Maher would have made a joke about that too......NOT....Had a conservative said something equally as disrespectful and inappropriate about a liberal liberal's would be asking for his head on a platter and you know it.
I would not bash him....as long as he was a good guy, doing charity for kids, being a good role model.
why would you assume I would "bash" him? you just like to sterotype, dontchya.....
the hell, all liberals would "celebrate" a muslim, before they would a "christian"....too worried bout bein PC and all...
Quote from: me on December 29, 2011, 01:34:14 PM
And I am sure Maher would have made a joke about that too......NOT....Had a conservative said something equally as disrespectful and inappropriate about a liberal liberal's would be asking for his head on a platter and you know it.
If you don't think Bill Maher would have made fun of a Muslim, you haven't watched much Bill Maher. :wink:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 29, 2011, 12:55:26 PM
I think maher is an ass. and disrespectful. I am not boycotting him, I don't have HBO, but would rather sew my head to the carpet than watch him, if I could.
why is it liberals hate tebow?
he has done nothing wrong, but stand up for his faith.
he is a great guy, and an up and coming star.
You have to admit that there's an inherent humor when someone thanks the sky daddy for winning football games, and then the team takes a shellacking like what the Bills put on them on Saturday. :yes:
I even pointed it out right here:
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16128.msg421879#new
I know locutus, to many of you that is really funny. I'm speaking in general terms of the tebow bashing, JUST because he has a faith, and is proud to have it....there is a group out there that just loves to knock anyone who wears his faith on his sleeves. Even though he is NOT pushing it on others or preaching it....just likes to give thanks when he can to God...
Quote from: Locutus on December 29, 2011, 02:56:46 PM
If you don't think Bill Maher would have made fun of a Muslim, you haven't watched much Bill Maher. :wink:
He does have his moments but I quit watching him years ago 'cause I don't particularly care for his show. I'd rather watch the history channel or someone like Red Green.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 29, 2011, 03:38:44 PM
I know locutus, to many of you that is really funny. I'm speaking in general terms of the tebow bashing, JUST because he has a faith, and is proud to have it....there is a group out there that just loves to knock anyone who wears his faith on his sleeves. Even though he is NOT pushing it on others or preaching it....just likes to give thanks when he can to God...
Anyone who is that ***** has something evil in his closet. I sure would like to know. I sure would rat him out. What a sissy. :biggrin:
have you watched this guy play? he is NO *****, that is for sure........
Oh you probably think guys like Michael Vick are the "good" guys, don't you....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 30, 2011, 09:06:00 AM
have you watched this guy play? he is NO *****, that is for sure........
Oh you probably think guys like Michael Vick are the "good" guys, don't you....
Troll would think Hannible Lecter was a good guy if he were a liberal.
that is no lie... ;D
I happen to think Michael Vick is a good player; one who has shown he can rise above his mistakes and adversity to do the job he is being paid to do.
that may be, he IS a decent player and has overcome some tough measures...
but HE killed dogs! Intentionally! for fun and profit!
Hard for me to think that he is NOW a "good guy".... you have to have a certain amount of EVIL in you to do the things he did... in my opinion, he put on some PR, to get BACK into the league to make MORE money....it does not mean he is NOW, a "good guy"... just my opinion though,
For me, I wouldn't walk across the street to meet him, if I had the opportunity.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 30, 2011, 01:52:31 PM
that may be, he IS a decent player and has overcome some tough measures...
but HE killed dogs! Intentionally! for fun and profit!
Hard for me to think that he is NOW a "good guy".... you have to have a certain amount of EVIL in you to do the things he did... in my opinion, he put on some PR, to get BACK into the league to make MORE money....it does not mean he is NOW, a "good guy"... just my opinion though,
For me, I wouldn't walk across the street to meet him, if I had the opportunity.
Therein lies the fallacy within your personal constitution. There is no limitation to the penance an individual must put forth, and zero possibility for rehabilitation.
That being the case, why bother?
That may very well be true........for those people who LOVE to murder dogs for money, I probably have drawn a line in the sand.
guilty
every time i hear Michael Vick, i get mad all over. arent these guys supposed to be an example to kids with aspirations to be in professional sports?? and then, the dope dealers/users/football players. Not to mention the players who abuse women....
cmon, they kicked Pete Rose out for gambling....
What happened to the heros?
alas, they are gone
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 30, 2011, 03:50:36 PM
That may very well be true........for those people who LOVE to murder dogs for money, I probably have drawn a line in the sand.
guilty
It is blessed to forgive. :pray:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 30, 2011, 12:43:10 PM
I happen to think Michael Vick is a good player; one who has shown he can rise above his mistakes and adversity to do the job he is being paid to do.
I would have no compunction whatsoever with putting a bullet in his head.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 31, 2011, 09:45:25 AM
I would have no compunction whatsoever with putting a bullet in his head.
And there you have it; something you and Henry can agree upon!
Quote from: Palehorse on December 31, 2011, 11:06:45 AM
And there you have it; something you and Henry can agree upon!
I would load the gun for Ex to do it simply because my aim sucks and I probably would miss him.
Quote from: me on December 31, 2011, 02:32:17 PM
I would load the gun for Ex to do it simply because my aim sucks and I probably would miss him.
And then there were four. . . damfast, Henry, Ex, and "me".
What does all of this have to do with God suckage?? :razz: :razz:
:rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on December 31, 2011, 08:18:02 PM
What does all of this have to do with God suckage?? :razz: :razz:
:rotfl:
For one, the premise of forgiveness that the skydaddy instructs them to practice. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on December 31, 2011, 09:06:13 PM
For one, the premise of forgiveness that the skydaddy instructs them to practice. . .
I'm goin' with the "eye for an eye" part here. Of course what I know about the Bible could be put on the head of a pin with room to spare so I'm not really sure that's even in there or if it's just a saying.
Quote from: me on December 31, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
I'm goin' with the "eye for an eye" part here. Of course what I know about the Bible could be put on the head of a pin with room to spare so I'm not really sure that's even in there or if it's just a saying.
http://www.youtube.com/v/EewQzi4RhGQ&feature=related
Quote from: Palehorse on December 31, 2011, 10:47:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/EewQzi4RhGQ&feature=related
ROFLMAO..... Didn't he do a dance with that on the show? Didn't get to watch it too often but loved Church Lady.
QuoteI would have no compunction whatsoever with putting a bullet in his head.
high five Ex!! :yes:
:biggrin:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/24ltumf.png)
and oldie but a goldie........ ;D
Yeah, I know I've seen that somewhere before, just wasn't sure if it had ever been posted on here. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on January 24, 2012, 01:29:06 PM
Yeah, I know I've seen that somewhere before, just wasn't sure if it had ever been posted on here. ;D
hey, I think it is good stuff.....no complaints out of me. It IS funny!
LMAO!! :rotfl:
Maybe I should change the name of this thread to Ik Onkar sucks too! ;D I wonder exactly what they think the State Department is going to be able to do about this grievous offense.
NEW DELHI (AP) — India's Sikh community isn't finding Jay Leno so funny.
Members of the religious group said they were outraged when the "Tonight Show" host showed a photo of a glittering gold building and claimed it was Republican Mitt Romney's summer home.
It was meant to be a joke about the Republican presidential candidate's wealth. But the building in the photograph is the Golden Temple, the holiest site in the Sikh religion.
Dalbeg Singh, a top Sikh leader, said Tuesday that community leaders would seek an apology from Leno.
India's foreign ministry said the government had taken the issue up with U.S. authorities.
A top official from the external affairs ministry said a formal complaint had been lodged with the State Department in Washington.
India had also sent a complaint to NBC, the broadcaster of the show, the official said. He was speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.
Meanwhile, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Monday that Leno's comments "appeared to be satirical in nature."
http://news.yahoo.com/jay-lenos-mitt-romney-joke-incenses-indias-sikhs-110400262.html
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I love the guy talking at the beginning. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/v/-K2TGneLuoQ
Quote from: Locutus on January 24, 2012, 02:44:47 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I love the guy talking at the beginning. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/v/-K2TGneLuoQ
All I have to say to the poor cry babies is, join the 21ST century and grow up and fuck off. :rant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=player_embedded
Science flies you to the moon; religion flies you into buildings.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 27, 2012, 12:53:07 PM
Science flies you to the moon; religion flies you into buildings.
If that is original, you should copyright it.
Wish I would have said that. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 27, 2012, 12:53:07 PM
Science flies you to the moon; religion flies you into buildings.
:food24: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Post of the year right there! :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Quote from: followsthewolf on January 27, 2012, 03:46:03 PM
If that is original, you should copyright it.
Wish I would have said that. :yes: :biggrin:
I have seen it before. I believe in an add somewhere???
I saw it on a t-shirt today.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 27, 2012, 08:50:53 PM
I saw it on a t-shirt today.
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/130192450854.jpg)
This is where I saw it. . . :biggrin:
Been doing some light reading relative to Easter and just tripped across this interesting little tidbit. These are several other "gods" who died and came back from the dead throughout human history (seems the story was around for thousands of years before Jesus):
Australian Aboriginal mythology: Julunggul, Wawalag
Akkadian mythology: Tammuz, Ishtar
Arabian mythology: Phoenix
Aztec mythology: Quetzalcoatl, Xipe Totec
Canaanite mythology: Adonis, Baal, Eshmun, Melqart
Christian mythology: Jesus
Dacian mythology: Zalmoxis
Egyptian mythology: Osiris, Amun, Horus, Amun-Min (Amen-Min)
Etruscan mythology: Atunis -Also known as "Adonis" (Greek)
Greek mythology: Adonis, Cronus, Dionysus, Orpheus, Persephone
Hinduism: Kali, Shiva, Chinnamasta
Japanese mythology: Izanagi
Khoikhoi mythology: Heitsi-eibib
Native American mythology: Kaknu
Norse mythology: Gullveig, Odin, Baldr
Phrygian mythology: Attis
Religion in ancient Rome: Aeneas, Bacchus, Proserpina
Slavic mythology: Jarilo, Kostroma, Marzanna
Sumerian mythology: Dumuzi, Inanna
Yoruba mythology: Obatala, Moremi
Also there were ancient civilizations that talked about a great flood before there were Christians and the bible. The stories of David slaying Goliath was stories long before the Christians and the bible. The people who wrote the bible 440 years after the supposed Jesus died stole stories to make their bible more interesting. :yes:
Even ole' Jeebus and a layin' on of hands wasn't enough to save looney Santorum's campaign. ;D
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/02/08/t1larg.rick-santorum-prayer.t1larg.jpg)
Oh where are oh worshipful master, God.
Michell Bachman said god told her to run for president, so did Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum. It don't look like it worked. :pray: :preach: :pope: Holy Ghost :ghost: It must be the God Complex. :rotfl: :rotfl: :biggrin:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120416/LIVING09/204160317/Indy-woman-1st-Indiana-answer-call-Catholic-priesthood?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120416/LIVING09/204160317/Indy-woman-1st-Indiana-answer-call-Catholic-priesthood?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com)
Bet the pope is going to be doing a little fit throwing and hurling of fire and brimstone over this!
:pope:
:kneel:
Wonder when they're gonna get the first male nun. :groan:
Quote from: me on April 16, 2012, 02:08:25 PM
Wonder when they're gonna get the first male nun. :groan:
:haha: :haha: How will they find him. Well, the Pope has red shoes, our new nun, he'll will have pink shoes. :wink: :biggrin:
Wow! This thread is coming up on 5 years old and almost 2,000 posts. And after all of that, yes, God still sucks. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on April 17, 2012, 08:02:04 PM
Wow! This thread is coming up on 5 years old and almost 2,000 posts. And after all of that, yes, God still sucks. ;D
We hear from the Christians how God can't do anything wrong and everything he makes is perfect. :rolleyes:
I have been eating some peanuts in the shell and I am finding shells that are perfect on the outside, but when you open it, it has only one peanut. Whoooa, guess what happened? Last night my wife was eating some peanuts in the shell got one that looked perfect on the outside and guess what, there was no peanuts in it, empty as God's promises :confused:
Maybe this is what has happened when you see a deformed and crippled child. God screwed up. Let's pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: Oh, don't forget, put something in the pot, because Jesus and God needs it. :stirthepot: :rolleyes:
I think you should drop something into my pot for starting this thread. :rotfl:
I don't think God Sucks, even after FIVE years of you guys saying he does!!.. ;D :no: :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 18, 2012, 08:22:01 AM
I don't think God Sucks, even after FIVE years of you guys saying he does!!.. ;D :no: :razz:
Hawk, just :music1: keep hoping and a praying. :music1: We well see what happens when you really, really need him. :rolleyes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 18, 2012, 08:22:01 AM
I don't think God Sucks, even after FIVE years of you guys saying he does!!.. ;D :no: :razz:
Can you believe it's been 5 years? :spooked:
:music1: "Still sucking after all these years; Ohhhhh still sucking after a-lllll these years!" :music1:
Looks like an American nun's group is gettin' just a lil' too ornery for the Holy Suck. They were lambasted for promoting radical feminist ideas. :eek:
A prominent U.S. Catholic nuns group said it was "stunned" that the Vatican reprimanded it for spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns and not enough on abortion and gay marriage.
In a stinging report on Wednesday, the Vatican said the Leadership Conference of Women Religious had been "silent on the right to life" and had failed to make the "Biblical view of family life and human sexuality" a central plank in its agenda. It accused the group of promoting "certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith."
Imagine that. Gay marriage and abortion are far more important to the Holy Suck than poverty and social justice concerns.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/20/11306372-catholic-nuns-group-stunned-by-vatican-scolding-for-radical-feminist-ideas?lite
If the Father as they call him and the old sucks don't smarten up and let the priest get married and have a family and let the nun have freedom from the old sucks. The Catholic church will die, which wouldn't bother me. If it gets worse the women and the nuns will be the only ones left to run it. :pope: :pray: The men are bailing the Holy Ship. :ghost: <-- Holy Ghost.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 18, 2012, 08:22:01 AM
I don't think God Sucks, even after FIVE years of you guys saying he does!!.. ;D :no: :razz:
You are right; he (she, it, et al) blows. Religion is just about the silliest thing man has come up with. Are you a doomsday cult guy, or just looking for Nirvana. I think I recall you are a christian (doomsday cult, human sacrifice for salvation type), but its been a while since we last spoke. Romney is a magic (or is that majic) underwear wearing space alien type (scientology, mormon), but I am thinking you are a flesh eater. Right?
Quote from: dan foster on April 20, 2012, 09:04:44 PM
You are right; he (she, it, et al) blows. Religion is just about the silliest thing man has come up with. Are you a doomsday cult guy, or just looking for Nirvana. I think I recall you are a christian (doomsday cult, human sacrifice for salvation type), but its been a while since we last spoke. Romney is a magic (or is that majic) underwear wearing space alien type (scientology, mormon), but I am thinking you are a flesh eater. Right?
If Romney would slay a sheep at the location where Joseph Smith found the golden plates. Maybe it will cinch the presidency for him. :rotfl: :rotfl: :haha:
Some ass just put this on Facebook saying, "Like for heaven, or ignore for hell!" Guess I'm going to hell.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/529166_139557249508222_100003618443725_169981_52610641_n.jpg)
Quote from: Locutus on April 22, 2012, 10:29:49 PM
Some ass just put this on Facebook saying, "Like for heaven, or ignore for hell!" Guess I'm going to hell.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/529166_139557249508222_100003618443725_169981_52610641_n.jpg)
:icon_twisted:
Even though I have somewhat swore of interacting on a regular basis here, I found this article, and I think it is interesting enough to pass on.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/)
at least there are a couple on here who may be able to give a respectable response to it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 23, 2012, 10:54:01 AM
Even though I have somewhat swore of interacting on a regular basis here, I found this article, and I think it is interesting enough to pass on.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/)
at least there are a couple on here who may be able to give a respectable response to it.
I'll read that article later, but I'll say this. It's hard to stay off this thread. It's been around for 5 years now, and that means we're all five years older now than we were when it started. :spooked: :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on April 23, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
I'll read that article later, but I'll say this. It's hard to stay off this thread. It's been around for 5 years now, and that means we're all five years older now than we were when it started. :spooked: :biggrin:
time flies when you are having fun, huh?.... :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 23, 2012, 10:54:01 AM
Even though I have somewhat swore of interacting on a regular basis here, I found this article, and I think it is interesting enough to pass on.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/)
at least there are a couple on here who may be able to give a respectable response to it.
First of all the article is two years old. Nothing more since? What's that say?
Then there is this: "
The group of evangelical archaeologists" . . . which provides one with the bias these men and women have toward identification of a find as something it may or may not be.
A little carbon dating would be in order, and one would think that it has already been done. . . But nothing. . .
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 23, 2012, 10:54:01 AM
Even though I have somewhat swore of interacting on a regular basis here, I found this article, and I think it is interesting enough to pass on.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/)
at least there are a couple on here who may be able to give a respectable response to it.
FOX NEWS? More wishfull thinking. Scientist have search the world over and have found no trace of a world wide flood. If it had happened there would be a record in the rocks. They have found none. :yes:
Even tho the scientist have found the Metorite that killed off the dinosaurs, isn't it amazing there in no record of a flood.
Mathematicians have figured that the number of animals that Noah needed to put on the ark, the ark was no way big enough and how could he had the manpower and the time to search the world to round them up. As they say on television. MYTH BUSTED! :yes: :yes:
Being 'Born-Again' Linked to More Brain Atrophy: Study
04/21/2012 2:01 PM
WEDNESDAY, May 25 (HealthDay News) -- Older adults who say they've had a life-changing religious experience are more likely to have a greater decrease in size of the hippocampus, the part of the brain critical to learning and memory, new research finds.
According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again.
The study is published online in PLoS ONE.
As people age, a certain amount of brain atrophy is expected. Shrinkage of the hippocampus is also associated with depression, dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
http://mobile.philly.com/health/?wss=/philly/health&id=132456883
^^ Now if that isn't proof positive that God sucks, I don't know what is.
:rotfl: :rotfl: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on April 30, 2012, 04:03:48 PM
^^ Now if that isn't proof positive that God sucks, I don't know what is.
:rotfl: :rotfl: ;D
I hope for Christ sake that Henry and the American Nigga reads this. :biggrin: Let us :pray: :preach: :pope: and the :ghost: Holy that is. :biggrin:
Bullshit is exactly the right word. (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/04/29/dan-savage-points-out-the-hypocrisy-in-the-bible-so-young-journalists-walk-out-on-him/)
Quote from: Exterminator on April 30, 2012, 06:45:30 PM
Bullshit is exactly the right word. (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/04/29/dan-savage-points-out-the-hypocrisy-in-the-bible-so-young-journalists-walk-out-on-him/)
Yes Sir, there is sure a lot of Christian chicken shits. They can't take anything, they get up and walk out. Like Bullshit is a really bad word, but flogging a queer is alright.
To think at one time I believed all of this bullshit. But after years and years of thinking about all this bullshit I finally just came out and said, there is no god, the bible is a classical piece of bullshit, lies, fairytales. Prayers don't work and neither does god bless everyone and the United States of America. Believe it of not we're here on earth on our own, for if there is a god, he sure doesn't give a damn and should be fired. :yes: :rant:
"The second you see your son dropping that limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist," Harris said in the Sunday sermon. "Man up. Give him a good punch."
"You're not going to act like that," the pastor advised parents to tell their children. "You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male."
--- Pastor Sean Harris
:no:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/02/north-carolina-pastor-retracts-sermon-remarks-about-punching-gay-kids/?hpt=hp_t3
Quote from: Locutus on May 02, 2012, 10:15:38 PM
"The second you see your son dropping that limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist," Harris said in the Sunday sermon. "Man up. Give him a good punch."
"You're not going to act like that," the pastor advised parents to tell their children. "You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male."
--- Pastor Sean Harris
:no:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/02/north-carolina-pastor-retracts-sermon-remarks-about-punching-gay-kids/?hpt=hp_t3
The fine example of a big chicken shit bully. He's the kind of guy I would like to catch in a dark alley with a ball bat and make he think that Jesus had came back pissed off. :jc:
Quote from: The Troll on May 02, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
The fine example of a big chicken shit bully. He's the kind of guy I would like to catch in a dark alley with a ball bat and make he think that Jesus had came back pissed off. :jc:
Indeed! If he's like so many of the other pastors who are outspoken against homosexuality, there's a good chance he's most likely guilty of some unspeakable depravity himself. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on May 02, 2012, 10:22:58 PM
Indeed! If he's like so many of the other pastors who are outspoken against homosexuality, there's a good chance he's most likely guilty of some unspeakable depravity himself. :yes:
There sure have been many caught munching on a flesh cockcycle. :rolleyes: But a weekend of prayer :pray: and a little preaching :preach: Their sins have been washed away. :rolleyes: :pope: Shall we pray for all of those lost sinners who do not know what they do. :jc: For you sinners, put something in the pot. :stirthepot:
Quote from: Locutus on May 02, 2012, 10:22:58 PM
Indeed! If he's like so many of the other pastors who are outspoken against homosexuality, there's a good chance he's most likely guilty of some unspeakable depravity himself. :yes:
If he's making public statements against homosexuality, you can bet he is probably paying a male prostitute for multiple services. Never fails. If he is speaking out on porn, he has a female prostitute, or fucking one of his deacon's wives. If he is shouting about child porn, he is fucking little children, somewhere. It just never fails.
Quote from: dan foster on May 06, 2012, 12:23:26 PM
If he's making public statements against homosexuality, you can bet he is probably paying a male prostitute for multiple services. Never fails. If he is speaking out on porn, he has a female prostitute, or fucking one of his deacon's wives. If he is shouting about child porn, he is fucking little children, somewhere. It just never fails.
You know he's lying about all of this god crap. What else would he lie about. :preach: :puke:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/540041_373466129359026_229551967083777_992674_1193642076_n.jpg)
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/528163_362187290486910_229551967083777_966471_134259614_n.jpg)
Quote from: Palehorse on May 11, 2012, 11:59:51 AM
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/540041_373466129359026_229551967083777_992674_1193642076_n.jpg)
Things sure hasn't change any, have they? :pray: :preach: :pope: :doh:
Looks like God killed off a few young graduates from Oral and Anal Robert's University who were on their way to a youth conference serve him by indoctrinating a few more youth into the collective.
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — A small airplane that crashed in southeast Kansas on Friday was carrying five people with connections to Oral Roberts University to a Christian youth rally in Iowa, a friend of three of the victims said Saturday.
The Kansas Highway Patrol reported four of the passengers died and one was badly injured. The fatalities were identified Saturday as Luke Sheets, 23, of Ephraim, Wis., who was flying the plane; Austin Anderson, 27, of Ringwood, Okla.; Garrett Coble, 29, of Tulsa, Okla.; and Stephen Luth, 22, of Muscatine, Iowa.
Hanna Luce, 22, of Garden Valley, Texas, was critically injured and admitted to the University of Kansas Medical Center in Kansas City, Kan. Her condition was unavailable Saturday afternoon. The recent graduate is the daughter of Oral Roberts trustee Ron Luce, founder of Teen Mania Ministries, which was sponsoring this weekend's Acquire the Fire rally in Council Bluffs, Iowa.
The National Transportation Safety Board said the twin-engine Cessna 401 went down around 4:30 p.m. Friday northwest of Chanute, Kan. NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson said the eight-seat plane caught fire after the crash.
"The plane lost contact with air traffic control after getting permission to descend to a lower altitude," Knudson said. "After that, there was no further communication."
Brooke Ninowski, who recently graduated from Oral Roberts, said she had been friends with Anderson for about two years — he was her brother's roommate for a semester. She said they also had a few classes together.
Ninowski said she also knew Luth and Sheets through school, noting that Luth had dated one of her best friends.
"They were guys who stuck to their morals and it showed through their character, and how they treated people," she said. "They thought of others first. I don't know if the reports are true about Austin, that he might have pulled Hannah out of the wreckage, but that wouldn't surprise me in any way."
Sheets, Coble and Luth were killed at the scene, while Anderson died at a hospital in Wichita just before 5 a.m. Saturday, the Kansas Highway Patrol said.
"They were going to an Acquire the Fire event run by Teen Mania Ministries," she said. "They're put on in various cities, Christian youth rallies where young people come together and learn about God."
On Saturday, Oral Roberts President Mark Rutland issued a statement asking the university community to pray for Luce and remember those who were killed. He said Luth, Sheets and Anderson were recent graduates, and Coble was a former business instructor at the school.
"The entire ORU community grieves for the families of the ORU graduates who lost their lives in this tragic plane accident," Rutland said. "May God grant them peace and they reflect on the precious lives that were so dear to their hearts. We continue to pray for those who are recovering."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-12/kansas-plane-crash-oral-roberts/54923322/1
Something came across my mind. If the Mormons religion is a cult, is Mitt's god different than the Southern Baptist's god. They say that the Muslim's god is different. :wink: :confused:
Quote from: The Troll on May 13, 2012, 10:13:16 AM
Something came across my mind. If the Mormons religion is a cult, is Mitt's god different than the Southern Baptist's god. They say that the Muslim's god is different. :wink: :confused:
Subjective answer, dependent upon which way the political winds are blowing and the nature of the wealth and power desired to be obtained.
LOL..."God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself because a rib-woman was talked into doing wrong by a snake before she knew what wrong was so an invisible disease of sin would inhabit the invisible soul organ of each person so that god just had no other option but to torture them all for eternity unless they say a magic spell that magically makes the invisible disease go away..."
:biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 21, 2012, 01:16:43 PM
LOL..."God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself because a rib-woman was talked into doing wrong by a snake before she knew what wrong was so an invisible disease of sin would inhabit the invisible soul organ of each person so that god just had no other option but to torture them all for eternity unless they say a magic spell that magically makes the invisible disease go away..."
Yes Sir, the story of god and the universe he created. Unknown size to us and when god wanted to play he blew up a star creating a Super Novas and he still is blowing them up. Created galaxies, neutron stars, graviton stars. More stars than all of the grain of sand on earth beaches. This guy was really busy. :wink:
But he was lonely. He created the earth starting with a little ball of molten iron and each layer by layer he built the earth. But he was still lonely. Out of the clay of his earth he created Adam, still lonely he took clay and created the first Eve. But the bitch would listen to Adam he cast her out of the garden he had created for his son Adam, Clay Boy. So not only was Adam lonely so was god. He then took a rib from Adam and created the second Eve. So she would be a part of Adam and take orders from him. :rolleyes: He sure got that one wrong. :rotfl:
Everything was perfect. The garden, Adam and Eve. Still god wasn't happy because he didn't know if he could trust them. So he creates an apple tree (most likely a fig tree) and he tells them not to touch the fruit. They don't touch it, so he puts a talking snake in the garden and the snake talks Eve into getting Adam and herself to eat the apple (fig). :treehug:
Now god is really pissed off. They ate the damn apples and he throws them out of the garden into the cold wilderness :cold: with a curse on them, their children and their children's children's for ever and ever. :smash:
Several generations past and god thinks, damn I'm a mean son of bitch how can I correct the stupid mistake I made with this stupid sin against eating figs in the garden I made. So he comes back to earth as Jesus gets himself hung on a cross so he can forgive everybody he screwed and cursed. :yes: :jc:
And that's the story of the Garden of Eden. :haha: :haha: :pray: :preach: and if your will believe this I have a summer place to sell you at the North Pole., :wink: :smile:
Please tell me that this isn't what the bible says. :jc: Of course in layman terms. :biggrin:
The serpent, "natash" is translated,"the shining one". So maybe it wasnt a snake. Maybe it was so beautiful that Eve was fooled into believing it.
Just a thought, here, but:
We think of the devil as a red, horned evil one with a tail and a pitchfork.
What if:
He is really a beautiful being, who makes us believe that he is wonderful, and what he offers is so tempting to us, that we dont understand evil and temptation is not always ugly and foul?
Quote from: damfast on May 21, 2012, 06:45:44 PM
The serpent, "natash" is translated,"the shining one". So maybe it wasnt a snake. Maybe it was so beautiful that Eve was fooled into believing it.
Just a thought, here, but:
We think of the devil as a red, horned evil one with a tail and a pitchfork.
What if:
He is really a beautiful being, who makes us believe that he is wonderful, and what he offers is so tempting to us, that we dont understand evil and temptation is not always ugly and foul?
At this time, had god cast his head angel Lucifer out of heaven and to earth yet. I wouldn't think that god would let Lucifer, bible said a snake into his garden of Eden. Either god had to create that snake out of clay or it was himself playing the snake. :smile: It could have been a big diamond ring that could talk. You know how much women like diamonds and gold. :wink: :smile: :angel: You can talk a woman in to anything is the ring and gold is large enough. :yes: :biggrin:
The devil being horned and red is a human fantasy. Lucifer at one time was god favorite angel :angel: but Lucifer didn't like the rules and rebelled. God threw him down and out of heaven. So says the bible. Did you read that in there too. :wink: :smile:
Quote from: The Troll on May 21, 2012, 08:30:54 PM
You know how much women like diamonds and gold. :wink: :smile: :angel: You can talk a woman in to anything is the ring and gold is large enough. :yes: :biggrin:
(http://www.bigfollow.com/pictures/10186-DIAMOND_ARE_FOREVER-With_this_she_might_let_you_stick_it_in_her_pooper.jpg)
well ex,i wouldnt go quite that far, but i might let you talk about it. :biggrin: :biggrin:
And nooo you know i dont read serious stuff except on here. But it could have been something very pretty that didnt look awful. Maybe it smelled good and looked good too. OMG could it have been a talking cake???? Maybe she didnt know you could eat cake, so she took the fruit.
Quote from: damfast on May 22, 2012, 02:25:23 PM
well ex,i wouldnt go quite that far, but i might let you talk about it. :biggrin: :biggrin:
And nooo you know i dont read serious stuff except on here. But it could have been something very pretty that didnt look awful. Maybe it smelled good and looked good too. OMG could it have been a talking cake???? Maybe she didnt know you could eat cake, so she took the fruit.
Most likely it wasn't a hot sticky brownie, chocolate coated with walnuts on top of that, fresh of of god oven. :wink: :smile:
Only the Devil makes something so bad for you. :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on May 22, 2012, 06:12:57 PM
Most likely it wasn't a hot sticky brownie, chocolate coated with walnuts on top of that, fresh of of god oven. :wink: :smile:
Only the Devil makes something so bad for you. :biggrin:
You mean this guy? ----> :devil29:
West Virginia preacher Mark Randall "Mack" Wolford, who believed Christians should handle snakes to test their faith, died after a rattlesnake bit him over the weekend.
Wolford was bitten on the thigh about 2 p.m. Sunday afternoon, but he didn't come to the hospital until 10:30 p.m., a nursing supervisor at Bluefield Regional Medical Center told the Charleston Daily Mail. The incident occurred during an outdoor service at Panther State Forest, about 80 miles west of Bluefield in southern West Virginia, the paper said.
Wolford had turned 44 on Saturday. He had seen his father die of a snakebite when he was teenager, the Daily Mail reported.
The Washington Post Magazine had profiled Wolford in a story in November about the snake-handling faith. The Post said adherents cite Mark 16:17-18: "And these signs will follow those who believe: in My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Snake-handling is legal in West Virginia, and Wolford was trying to keep it alive there and in neighboring states where it is not, the Post reported.
The Daily Mail reported that Wolford was bitten Sunday by a yellow timber rattlesnake -- named Sheba -- that he had often handled.
Wolford's sister told the Post that during the service he passed the snake to another church member and his mother, then laid it on the ground. "He sat down next to the snake, and it bit him on the thigh," the sister said, according to the Post.
The Post said Wolford was taken to a relative's house in Bluefield to recover, as he had from previous bites, but his condition worsened.
Link (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/30/11956841-snake-handling-preacher-dies-from-rattlesnake-bite-in-west-virginia?lite)
^^^ Now that right there shows you that his faith in God to protect him from that mean ole' rattlesnake just must not have been strong enough. Or, it could just mean that what I've been saying all along it true. God just sucks! :biggrin:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-110905-pentecostal2-tease.photoblog600.jpg)
:spooked:
There is a big difference between having faith and being a f'ing idiot. This guy was an idiot.
God doesn't suck.... :no: everybody has their own choices to make....this guy made a stupid one.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 30, 2012, 12:32:51 PM
There is a big difference between having faith and being a f'ing idiot. This guy was an idiot.
God doesn't suck.... :no: everybody has their own choices to make....this guy made a stupid one.
At least he removed himself from the gene pool. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 12:33:40 PM
At least he removed himself from the gene pool. ;D
If this guy has a son, I hope he has learned that rattlesnakes KILL.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 30, 2012, 12:36:13 PM
If this guy has a son, I hope he has learned that rattlesnakes KILL.
Well this guy didn't learn his lesson from his father. Did you notice in the article that it said he saw his own dad die from a rattlesnake bite years ago?
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 12:37:28 PM
Well this guy didn't learn his lesson from his father. Did you notice in the article that it said he saw his own dad die from a rattlesnake bite years ago?
It's a self fulfilling prophecy that perpetuates. Sooner or later enough of them will be bitten to eradicate the shallow end of the gene pool from whence they came. . .
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 30, 2012, 12:32:51 PM
There is a big difference between having faith and being a f'ing idiot.
No, not really.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 30, 2012, 12:41:00 PM
No, not really.
And true dat too! :biggrin:
Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. -- Bill Maher
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 12:37:28 PM
Well this guy didn't learn his lesson from his father. Did you notice in the article that it said he saw his own dad die from a rattlesnake bite years ago?
yeah, hard to build any arguement on this one, other than he was an idiot, just as his father was. The son, has had plenty of warning, to pull out of this stupidity.
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 12:27:13 PM
^^^ Now that right there shows you that his faith in God to protect him from that mean ole' rattlesnake just must not have been strong enough. Or, it could just mean that what I've been saying all along it true. God just sucks! :biggrin:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-110905-pentecostal2-tease.photoblog600.jpg)
:spooked:
Was that snake in the Garden of Eden a Rattlesnake. Either you eat the apple or get bit. :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on May 30, 2012, 01:21:56 PM
Was that snake in the Garden of Eden a Rattlesnake. Either you eat the apple or get bit. :haha:
The snake in the garden was this guy here --> :devil29:
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 01:25:53 PM
The snake in the garden was this guy here --> :devil29:
What is better, God created him ----> :devil29:
Listen to this little child sing, "Ain't no homos gonna' make it to heaven!"
This is a picture perfect example of the absolute child abuse that religion represents. :mad:
http://www.youtube.com/v/iRNbC-aSFLc#!
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 02:49:10 PM
Listen to this little child sing, "Ain't no homos gonna' make it to heaven!"
This is a picture perfect example of the absolute child abuse that religion represents. :mad:
http://www.youtube.com/v/iRNbC-aSFLc#!
Was this taken at Hawk's church. It is sure child abuse and look at the grown Christian men laughing and clapping their hands the same hand that they Jack with. :yes: :music1: Give me that old time religion :music1: Oh, the shame of it. :angry:
Troll, I just found out that the church in which that took place is located in Greensburg, Indiana. It's the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church.
Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/indiana-church-aint-no-homos-heaven-death-threats_n_1558898.html)
Here's their website with a statement addressing the video.
http://apostolictruthtabernacle.net/home
Quote from: Locutus on May 31, 2012, 11:07:46 PM
Troll, I just found out that the church in which that took place is located in Greensburg, Indiana. It's the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church.
Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/indiana-church-aint-no-homos-heaven-death-threats_n_1558898.html)
Holy hell. That is not very far from here. Just a little west of Indpls. . . :spooked:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2012, 12:39:53 AM
Holy hell. That is not very far from here. Just a little west of Indpls. . . :spooked:
Actually, it is about 40 miles directly south of Anderson or 10 miles south of Shelbyville.
And just for the record, I find that whole "act" a shame and disgusting. I can honestly say, I would have walked out, immediatly!
I think most of the Christian friends I know would have done the same....Got no room for any hatred or mocking.
Unless, they changed the song to "Ain't no 'liberals' gonna' make it to heaven!" :spooked: just jokin, just jokin... :razz:
Seriously, there are a whole lot of "churches" out there that does NOT represent, a whole lot of real good churches, with some very good folks.
and for what it is worth, I do not attend ANY church right now, nor have I for the last couple of years.....but, it has NOTHING to do with a lack of faith or my personal beliefs. I stand strong and proudly say that God does NOT suck!!
:)
Quote from: Locutus on May 31, 2012, 11:07:46 PM
Troll, I just found out that the church in which that took place is located in Greensburg, Indiana. It's the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church.
Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/indiana-church-aint-no-homos-heaven-death-threats_n_1558898.html)
Locutus, Indiana is known for raising corn and hogs. But be also raise a lot of home grown nuts. Just look at some of our laws passed by our Republican controlled legislators.
That is why this state is at the same level as Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama in so many things. These religious nut make so hard for us to have the freedom the Constitution affords. Let us pray :pray: :rolleyes: :haha: for deliverance from these religious assholes. :rant:
The Southern Baptist Convention on Friday reprimanded Richard Land, the chief of its policy branch, for making racially provocative remarks about the Trayvon Martin killing and announced the cancellation of his weekly radio program on public affairs.
It was a sharp but expected setback for Mr. Land, a prominent spokesman for conservative Christian causes. He has been president of the group's policy branch, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, since 1988 and was known for pushing the Southern Baptists to apologize for the group's history of racism and seek minority members.
But on March 31 on his call-in program, "Richard Land Live!," Mr. Land set off a furor when he said that President Obama and other black leaders were exploiting the Trayvon Martin shooting "to gin up the black vote." He accused the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton of fomenting a "mob mentality."
His remarks were condemned by black church leaders, and Mr. Land came under further attack when a blogger revealed that much of his statement was lifted from an editorial in The Washington Times. Mr. Land later apologized for the harm his comments had caused and for failing to credit the editorial.. . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/02/us/baptists-rebuke-policy-chief-for-insensitive-comments.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/02/us/baptists-rebuke-policy-chief-for-insensitive-comments.html)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Whatta dumbass!
^^ Yep. And that just goes to show that you can just about insert anything into that "homos" video I just posted insofar as some of these groups are concerned.
"Ain't no homos gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no negros gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no Jews gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no Catholics gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no <insert the name of the group you hate most> gonna' make it to heaven!"
:no:
Quote from: Locutus on June 01, 2012, 11:43:54 PM
^^ Yep. And that just goes to show that you can just about insert anything into that "homos" video I just posted insofar as some of these groups are concerned.
"Ain't no homos gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no negros gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no Jews gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no Catholics gonna' make it to heaven!"
"Ain't no <insert the name of the group you hate most> gonna' make it to heaven!"
:no:
Hypocrites the lot of them! :yes:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2012, 11:49:10 PM
Hypocrites the lot of them! :yes:
Indeed. I may have to go out and get "saved" on Sunday just to fit in. :rotfl:
NOT!
Quote from: Locutus on June 01, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
Indeed. I may have to go out and get "saved" on Sunday just to fit in. :rotfl:
NOT!
:food24: :rotfl:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2012, 11:52:05 PM
:food24: :rotfl:
Let's both go!! :biggrin:
We'll go to The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church. :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on June 01, 2012, 11:58:08 PM
Let's both go!! :biggrin:
We'll go to The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church. :rotfl:
Can I wear my horns? :icon_twisted: :devil:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 02, 2012, 12:05:25 AM
Can I wear my horns? :icon_twisted: :devil:
As long as I can wear my flames --> :devil29:
Quote from: Locutus on May 30, 2012, 12:26:01 PM
West Virginia preacher Mark Randall "Mack" Wolford, who believed Christians should handle snakes to test their faith, died after a rattlesnake bit him over the weekend.
Wolford was bitten on the thigh about 2 p.m. Sunday afternoon, but he didn't come to the hospital until 10:30 p.m., a nursing supervisor at Bluefield Regional Medical Center told the Charleston Daily Mail. The incident occurred during an outdoor service at Panther State Forest, about 80 miles west of Bluefield in southern West Virginia, the paper said.
Wolford had turned 44 on Saturday. He had seen his father die of a snakebite when he was teenager, the Daily Mail reported.
The Washington Post Magazine had profiled Wolford in a story in November about the snake-handling faith. The Post said adherents cite Mark 16:17-18: "And these signs will follow those who believe: in My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Snake-handling is legal in West Virginia, and Wolford was trying to keep it alive there and in neighboring states where it is not, the Post reported.
The Daily Mail reported that Wolford was bitten Sunday by a yellow timber rattlesnake -- named Sheba -- that he had often handled.
Wolford's sister told the Post that during the service he passed the snake to another church member and his mother, then laid it on the ground. "He sat down next to the snake, and it bit him on the thigh," the sister said, according to the Post.
The Post said Wolford was taken to a relative's house in Bluefield to recover, as he had from previous bites, but his condition worsened.
Link (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/30/11956841-snake-handling-preacher-dies-from-rattlesnake-bite-in-west-virginia?lite)
It hit CNN
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/01/death-of-snake-handling-preacher-shines-light-on-lethal-appalachian-tradition/?hpt=hp_c1 (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/01/death-of-snake-handling-preacher-shines-light-on-lethal-appalachian-tradition/?hpt=hp_c1)
so i was talking to God the other day, and i said "God, some of my pals on the Zone say you suck."
He said, "do they now?"
and i said, "they do! Do you suck?"
and God said, " No I dont suck, those guys are just mean."
and there you have it!!!
Quote from: damfast on June 03, 2012, 08:22:40 AM
so i was talking to God the other day, and i said "God, some of my pals on the Zone say you suck."
He said, "do they now?"
and i said, "they do! Do you suck?"
and God said, " No I dont suck, those guys are just mean."
and there you have it!!!
You make me laugh. :haha: :haha: :haha: :thumbsup:
Dammie, do you hear other voices in your head. Little voices in your head that say Dammie, Dammieeeeee, the boogie man is under your bed and is going to eat you all up one of these night. Well, BOO! :ghost:
Maybe we could get Father Hawk to preform a exorcism on you and chases all of those demons :sneaky: :thubb: away. :bike:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
GREENSBURG -
Dozens of protesters greeted the congregation leaving Greensburg Apostolic Truth Temple Sunday morning after a You Tube video was posted last week.
Lyrics sung by pre-schoolers included: "the Bible is right, somebody's wrong. Romans 1 and 27, ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven."
Protester John Waudby said "when the congregation stood and hooted and hollered I was really sick."
Michelle Ray told us "they are using a child as a pawn in their message and it's just not appropriate."
But days since the controversy broke came a signal not all the congregation is behind the video.
"They love everybody, but they don't love the sin" said Robert Kirby, whose daughter teaches Sunday School at Apostolic Truth Temple.
Kirby said "it shocked everybody." He was asked if it shocked his daughter. "Think it did," he said, "Think it caught them all off guard. Nobody here told the kid to do that. I don't know where that came from." Asked if he thinks church members are sorry he said "oh yeah." Kirby attends a different church in town.
A church member said the Church will have a statement this week. The pastor is away.
But this is a country founded on religious freedom. So doesn't a congregation have the right to preach and believe as it sees fit?
"You shouldn't teach hate to a child," says Lucas Hartwell, one of the protest leaders. "You should teach them love. Love his fellow man whether he be homosexual or not."
Protester Lauren Larson said "even if one person sees our message - a teenager or something - and stops bullying somebody that's one kid that is stopped from hanging himself, possibly."
"It's bad for business," says area resident Herman Strumpf. Especially if Greensburg wants to attract another plant like Honda.
"This is not a community of bigots," Strumpf said. "This is a welcoming and diverse community. We are open for business and we want to project that image and let the whole world know."
http://www.wthr.com/story/18687519/church-members-met-by-protesters (http://www.wthr.com/story/18687519/church-members-met-by-protesters)
Quote from: Palehorse on June 03, 2012, 05:10:51 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
GREENSBURG -
Dozens of protesters greeted the congregation leaving Greensburg Apostolic Truth Temple Sunday morning after a You Tube video was posted last week.
Lyrics sung by pre-schoolers included: "the Bible is right, somebody's wrong. Romans 1 and 27, ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven."
Protester John Waudby said "when the congregation stood and hooted and hollered I was really sick."
Michelle Ray told us "they are using a child as a pawn in their message and it's just not appropriate."
But days since the controversy broke came a signal not all the congregation is behind the video.
"They love everybody, but they don't love the sin" said Robert Kirby, whose daughter teaches Sunday School at Apostolic Truth Temple.
Kirby said "it shocked everybody." He was asked if it shocked his daughter. "Think it did," he said, "Think it caught them all off guard. Nobody here told the kid to do that. I don't know where that came from." Asked if he thinks church members are sorry he said "oh yeah." Kirby attends a different church in town.
A church member said the Church will have a statement this week. The pastor is away.
But this is a country founded on religious freedom. So doesn't a congregation have the right to preach and believe as it sees fit?
"You shouldn't teach hate to a child," says Lucas Hartwell, one of the protest leaders. "You should teach them love. Love his fellow man whether he be homosexual or not."
Protester Lauren Larson said "even if one person sees our message - a teenager or something - and stops bullying somebody that's one kid that is stopped from hanging himself, possibly."
"It's bad for business," says area resident Herman Strumpf. Especially if Greensburg wants to attract another plant like Honda.
"This is not a community of bigots," Strumpf said. "This is a welcoming and diverse community. We are open for business and we want to project that image and let the whole world know."
http://www.wthr.com/story/18687519/church-members-met-by-protesters (http://www.wthr.com/story/18687519/church-members-met-by-protesters)
It is really amazing when you get these religious nuts nailed to the wall. You really find out how they are bigoted, racist and homophobic.
They say that God created everything, homosexuals, deformed children, floods, fires, starvation, but God is great. You hear it here in America and every Muslim says it when they bomb and kill people. Isn't religion great. :wink: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on June 03, 2012, 03:17:42 PM
You make me laugh. :haha: :haha: :haha: :thumbsup:
Dammie, do you hear other voices in your head. Little voices in your head that say Dammie, Dammieeeeee, the boogie man is under your bed and is going to eat you all up one of these night. Well, BOO! :ghost:
Maybe we could get Father Hawk to preform a exorcism on you and chases all of those demons :sneaky: :thubb: away. :bike:
haha sometimes they tell me to eat candy. and i do
Quote from: damfast on June 05, 2012, 04:35:49 PM
haha sometimes they tell me to eat candy. and i do
Hey little girl, I got this big Snicker bar and a Coke here in the car. :sneaky: You want to take a ride with me. :wink: I got more at my house. Hee, hee, hee. :biggrin: Now that's what I call :fish: :wink: :grin2:
I've been having an ongoing conversation on this topic with someone at work. Holy hell, I had almost forgotten how brainwashed religion makes people!
Quote from: The Troll on June 05, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
Hey little girl, I got this big Snicker bar and a Coke here in the car. :sneaky: You want to take a ride with me. :wink: I got more at my house. Hee, hee, hee. :biggrin: Now that's what I call :fish: :wink: :grin2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hyfMwsZwg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hyfMwsZwg)
:biggrin:
Quote from: Olias on June 06, 2012, 11:17:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hyfMwsZwg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hyfMwsZwg)
:biggrin:
It goes to show you, you can't beat a Ford. I wonder if you could get Damfast into it with a candy bar and a coke. :thumbsup:
can i drive?? i am pretty good at it. i dont mostly hit much! sometimes.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 03, 2012, 05:10:51 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
GREENSBURG -
Dozens of protesters greeted the congregation leaving Greensburg Apostolic Truth Temple Sunday morning after a You Tube video was posted last week.
Lyrics sung by pre-schoolers included: "the Bible is right, somebody's wrong. Romans 1 and 27, ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven."
Protester John Waudby said "when the congregation stood and hooted and hollered I was really sick."
Michelle Ray told us "they are using a child as a pawn in their message and it's just not appropriate."
But days since the controversy broke came a signal not all the congregation is behind the video.
"They love everybody, but they don't love the sin" said Robert Kirby, whose daughter teaches Sunday School at Apostolic Truth Temple.
Kirby said "it shocked everybody." He was asked if it shocked his daughter. "Think it did," he said, "Think it caught them all off guard. Nobody here told the kid to do that. I don't know where that came from." Asked if he thinks church members are sorry he said "oh yeah." Kirby attends a different church in town.
A church member said the Church will have a statement this week. The pastor is away.
But this is a country founded on religious freedom. So doesn't a congregation have the right to preach and believe as it sees fit?
"You shouldn't teach hate to a child," says Lucas Hartwell, one of the protest leaders. "You should teach them love. Love his fellow man whether he be homosexual or not."
Protester Lauren Larson said "even if one person sees our message - a teenager or something - and stops bullying somebody that's one kid that is stopped from hanging himself, possibly."
"It's bad for business," says area resident Herman Strumpf. Especially if Greensburg wants to attract another plant like Honda.
"This is not a community of bigots," Strumpf said. "This is a welcoming and diverse community. We are open for business and we want to project that image and let the whole world know."
http://www.wthr.com/story/18687519/church-members-met-by-protesters (http://www.wthr.com/story/18687519/church-members-met-by-protesters)
And the protestors are there again today.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 10, 2012, 12:33:16 PM
And the protesters are there again today.
I so glad that the crazy Christians can't hid their racism, Homophobia and bigotry. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on June 10, 2012, 02:50:11 PM
I so glad that the crazy Christians can't hid their racism, Homophobia and bigotry. :yes: :biggrin:
:yes:
Quote from: The Troll on June 10, 2012, 02:50:11 PM
I so glad that the crazy Christians can't hid their racism, Homophobia and bigotry. :yes: :biggrin:
I guess God isn't great to Rev. Schuller. They had to sell the their Crystal Cathedral.
It was bought by the Catholics for $57.7 Million. They are really going to shear the Sheeple to pay for that hunk of glass. :haha:
It's a wonder how the Catholic church paid for it after paying for all of those child rape felonies. :haha: I guess God is great to some people. :haha: Any way it all tax free. :doh:
. . .Officials in Escambia County, Florida, where Pensacola is located, expect damage to total more than $20 million.
Floodwaters up to 8 feet deep inundated the Forest Creek Apartments in the city.
"I walked out chin-deep in water," Lillian Murphy told CNN affiliate WEAR TV. The floodwater submerged her car and almost reached the roof of her apartment. "I don't know who to call or who to contact.". . .
I thought he was never going to destroy the earth by flood again? Oh, just pieces of it?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/us/florida-flooding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/us/florida-flooding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
http://www.youtube.com/v/hWiBt-pqp0E
R.I.P George Carlin. In the context of comedy, he spoke a lot of truth. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on June 12, 2012, 12:19:47 PM
R.I.P George Carlin. In the context of comedy, he spoke a lot of truth. :yes:
He DID have a way with words, and a reasoning that was funny and seemed logical... He IS a legend of Comedy.
If you want a good course in Atheism. Go to YouTubes and watch all of George Carlin's tubes. I really think the guy was on something real. :yes: :yes:
You know, at the time of his death, he did not ask for forgiveness. RIP, in the Great Universe, where we all are going. :yes: :yes: :biggrin:
Palehorse has posted a number of Carlin's videos around here today.
Quote from: Locutus on June 12, 2012, 08:30:35 PM
Palehorse has posted a number of Carlin's videos around here today.
And for good reason. People laughed at his jokes because a lot of them were ready to scream if they didn't laugh. The problem is, most of what he says is spot on correct*.
*To anyone possessing critical thought skills.
Talk about imposing your religious beliefs upon others. . .
There is a worker at my place of employment that writes down various passages from the bible onto post it notes, and pastes them all over his work bench. (Violation of 5S policy, waste of company resources, etc.)
This same individual would probably have a stroke if someone else brought a prayer rug to work, or posted quotes from a muslim religious book in the same manner he does the xtian one.
The point is, now someone is going to have to instruct him to stop doing this and to take down all of the stuff he has posted in his work center. Then, he's going to have a fit, get pissy, and probably go to the senior leadership crying persecution.
What a jackwagon! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 13, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Talk about imposing your religious beliefs upon others. . .
There is a worker at my place of employment that writes down various passages from the bible onto post it notes, and pastes them all over his work bench. (Violation of 5S policy, waste of company resources, etc.)
This same individual would probably have a stroke if someone else brought a prayer rug to work, or posted quotes from a muslim religious book in the same manner he does the xtian one.
The point is, now someone is going to have to instruct him to stop doing this and to take down all of the stuff he has posted in his work center. Then, he's going to have a fit, get pissy, and probably go to the senior leadership crying persecution.
What a jackwagon! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I may shock you, but I agree!
He is at work, not at home. My question is, does he REALLY have to have those post it notes with scripture to "get by"?
Quote from: Palehorse on June 13, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Talk about imposing your religious beliefs upon others. . .
There is a worker at my place of employment that writes down various passages from the bible onto post it notes, and pastes them all over his work bench. (Violation of 5S policy, waste of company resources, etc.)
This same individual would probably have a stroke if someone else brought a prayer rug to work, or posted quotes from a Muslim religious book in the same manner he does the xtian one.
The point is, now someone is going to have to instruct him to stop doing this and to take down all of the stuff he has posted in his work center. Then, he's going to have a fit, get pissy, and probably go to the senior leadership crying persecution.
What a jackwagon! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
If I were you, I would do just what you said. I'd get a pad of posted notes, don't you or your wife touch them. Have my wife write Muslim prayers and with gloves I would post them every where he could see them, quietly and in secret. Trash the rest of the pad and gloves where the management would not find them. Then I would set back, play dumb and see the fun. :yes: :yes: :yes: :biggrin:
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;
Quote from: Freedom_knight on June 18, 2012, 07:44:22 AM
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;
Ooooboy, you got a direct connection the the Sky Guy? You believe in the big false fairy tale that there is a god. What else are you going to come up with fairy boy. :tink: That you're the best friend of the rabbit who lives down the hole to Wonder Land with Alice. :cheshire:
You pray for the super rich, Banksters, Stockmarketeers and the Predatory Capitalist. Then you want step on the throat of the down trodden, sick, and poor. :rolleyes: What would Jesus say? :jc: What you else you got to say for yourself Dumbass. :haha:
If there is a god why can't he relieve the world of fools like you. :pray: :preach: :pope: and the Holy :ghost: Give us a break. :biggrin:
Troll, you have ZERO class.... :no:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 18, 2012, 08:46:19 AM
Troll, you have ZERO class.... :no:
Thank you Henry, coming from a man to believes in the "holy bible" and what Jesus preached of taking care of the least among us. :haha: :haha:
From you this a true complament, Thank you Henry. :grin2: :yes: :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Freedom_knight on June 18, 2012, 07:44:22 AM
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;
Hypocrite. You want to quote "the word of God" (according to humankind), surrounding spirituality, and yet you would be first among those who would cast the first stone toward those who hold the capability to discern spirits.
Mankind's Bible is rift with examples of those who can speak with spirits and understand them, and yet somehow anyone today who has the ability to do so is "evil" and a charlatan. :roll eyes:
Religion has been (and always will be by all appearances) the best known method for building and wielding personal power and wealth known to humankind. This fact was at the very foundation of the canonization process utilized during the "editing" of the Bible, and has always been the basis for the scare tactics utilized by supposed religious leaders throughout history. From the power hungry High-Priests of the dark/middle-ages, to the Falwells, Bakers, and zealots of today; money and power have always been the objectives. (Book-ended by the voice of God and the Holy Spirit).
If so called believers were to be required to live as Jesus is to have said they should, most of them would be victimized by the zealots amongst them. Fraternization with thieves, whores, drunks, and addicts; how dare they! Yet these are the very things Jesus is supposed to have done. These are the "lost" souls among humankind, the wayward sheep the Shepard's are to bring back into the fold . . . but there is no money in that, no power to be gained. Most of the ministers I have been around make it a point to engage in activities that do these things; increase the flock, scare the kool aid out of them, and guilt them into tithing until it hurts, and then tithe some more.
They typically live in homes far and above those the average church member are able to provide for themselves; driving a new Cadillac or Town Car and dressing in some of the best suits available to them at deep discount from those members amongst the flock that were purveyors of such things. And the church was and is always in need of major repairs that are going to cost tens of thousands, or a new one is strongly desired by the "Lord". It usually ends up being a mansion of astounding proportions that requires even more tithing to heat and cool once it is built.
Jesus (and I am repeating myself here I am sorry) consorted with the throw away sector of society, provided them hope, lifted them up, showed them the way of life. How is this being done today? How many homeless persons do you see welcomed within your congregations? How many of the addicted, the down-trodden, the helpless are welcomed within the congregations of organized religion and lifted up by its leadership? Few if any you have to admit. Those rare exceptions of individuals that come to the congregation seeking the way, are patronized and most often serve as fodder for the cannons of gossip and judgment exercised by the leadership and congregations nation-wide. This is the reality of organized religion today; a cliquish group of supposed followers of Jesus that regularly lord it over the have not's, and those who question their methods and ways.
The very nature of humankind is greed, and so often throughout history we have seen the conquered adopt the ways of the conquering. (Native Americans and Christianity for example). Now the religions and leaders of the times back then certainly saw how quickly this man was able to amass a strong following. So why not use this to construct a better means of controlling the peoples and bending them to the will of those who hold the power? Use his teachings and mold them in a way that leads them down the desired path? (Don't think the religious leaders of the times were capable of such acts or thoughts. Think of the high priests of the middles ages and the way in which they controlled the Kings by claiming to receive messages from God telling them the King should blah, blah blah).
You have spoke the true words my brother Horse. All a con-game, all smoke and mirrors all false wittiness of something phony.
If god is so great, why does he treat his flock so bad. I'll tell you why, he don't exist. If he does he needs to be fired for the horrible job he's doing. But we have people who are so ignorant they put their trust and belief in something that does not exist and can't be proved that he exist. :trustme:
If he, god is so good, why did he let Schuller's glass house be sold to the pedophile Catholic church. :pope: :haha: :pray: :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Troll on June 18, 2012, 12:17:13 PM
I'll tell you why, he don't exist. If he does....
:confused:
thats the way to take a stand.... :yes:
Quote from: Freedom_knight on June 18, 2012, 07:44:22 AM
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." -- Dr. Gregory House, M.D.
:wink:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120619/LOCAL/206190317/Cybersleuth-exposed-Greensburg-church-where-boy-sang-anti-gay-song?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120619/LOCAL/206190317/Cybersleuth-exposed-Greensburg-church-where-boy-sang-anti-gay-song?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com)
The story on how that "Gays Going To Hell" video on You Tube got exposed.
That's pretty funny. It couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of folks.
Quote from: Locutus on June 19, 2012, 03:54:12 PM
That's pretty funny. It couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of folks.
I'll bet they have a cross with Jesus on it, setting in back of the alter. Why, because that's were they nailed him to it. :rolleyes: :razz:
Has anyone seen the commercials for 'Christian' Mingle? The x-tian version of 'e-harmony'. Isn't it one of the most unbelievably stupid things you've ever seen? Get with us and find 'gods' match for your life. Oh really?!?!? God wants these idiots to pay your money as an intercessor to get you 'god's' girl or guy for you? Oh yeah!!! Friggin' idiots!
Another one is the 'Blue Book'. It's a x-tian 'Yellow Pages'. You call the peeps in that book and don't have to worry 'bout a thing. These are all x-tians BTW...or so they say. Of course there's no way to prove it, but don't let that stop you. Gawd is here to help through dem' dere' x-tian Yaller Pages he is. More friggin' idiots!
And last but not least, the 'Christian' Music Industry. Yessirree Bob! These folks are in it for the glory of gawd and not for personal gain, ego, or attention like dem' ebil ole' secular SOB's. Nope! Never happen! Give 'em yer money! Buy their product! It's all for da' glo-ry ub' gawd!!! Ridiculous friggin' idiots!
</end rant>
Quote from: Y on June 24, 2012, 09:53:56 PM
Has anyone seen the commercials for 'Christian' Mingle? The x-tian version of 'e-harmony'. Isn't it one of the most unbelievably stupid things you've ever seen? Get with us and find 'gods' match for your life. Oh really?!?!? God wants these idiots to pay your money as an intercessor to get you 'god's' girl or guy for you? Oh yeah!!! Friggin' idiots!
Another one is the 'Blue Book'. It's a x-tian 'Yellow Pages'. You call the peeps in that book and don't have to worry 'bout a thing. These are all x-tians BTW...or so they say. Of course there's no way to prove it, but don't let that stop you. Gawd is here to help through dem' dere' x-tian Yaller Pages he is. More friggin' idiots!
And last but not least, the 'Christian' Music Industry. Yessirree Bob! These folks are in it for the glory of gawd and not for personal gain, ego, or attention like dem' ebil ole' secular SOB's. Nope! Never happen! Give 'em yer money! Buy their product! It's all for da' glo-ry ub' gawd!!! Ridiculous friggin' idiots!
</end rant>
Bet they do their damnedest to avoid taxation as a "religious, not-for-profit" too! :mad:
MUNCIE -
Two Muncie parents are in jail on charges that they nearly starved their two young children.
Amy Doty and Jason Doty were arrested Friday. They are being held in the Delaware County Jail without bond.
According to police, hospital officials reported the family after the children, a 19-month-old and a four-year-old, were treated for malnutrition.
Investigators say both parents told them they moved to Missouri in March to follow a church ministry but had run out of money.
Child Protective Services took custody of both children.
http://www.wthr.com/story/18872622/muncie-parents-arrested-after-children-starved?Clienttype=generic&mobilecgbypass (http://www.wthr.com/story/18872622/muncie-parents-arrested-after-children-starved?Clienttype=generic&mobilecgbypass)
Quote from: Palehorse on June 25, 2012, 12:24:36 PM
MUNCIE -
Two Muncie parents are in jail on charges that they nearly starved their two young children.
Amy Doty and Jason Doty were arrested Friday. They are being held in the Delaware County Jail without bond.
According to police, hospital officials reported the family after the children, a 19-month-old and a four-year-old, were treated for malnutrition.
Investigators say both parents told them they moved to Missouri in March to follow a church ministry but had run out of money.
Child Protective Services took custody of both children.
http://www.wthr.com/story/18872622/muncie-parents-arrested-after-children-starved?Clienttype=generic&mobilecgbypass (http://www.wthr.com/story/18872622/muncie-parents-arrested-after-children-starved?Clienttype=generic&mobilecgbypass)
Jesus sure let the young, come to me children down. Come to think of it. Both god and Jesus is really letting all of these starving children in the world down. Here in America we have the Republican letting children starve by cutting food stamps. Who's worse. God, Jesus or the Republicans. :no: :no: :no: It's a damn shame. Now, let us pray. Dear God fuck them dumbasses who needs food stamps, Let the dummies starve. Amen. :pray: :preach: :pope: :haha: :haha:
Welcome to hell. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on July 03, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
Welcome to hell. . .
When you have had George W. and the republican party in control for eight years, my friend you know what hell is. :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: Now let us pray :pray: and pass the plate again, God need the money to keep his kingdom going. :bsflag: Yes, we all know it's all :bs: :biggrin:
Never know where ole' Jeebus is going to show up!
(http://i49.tinypic.com/necjeu.png)
Quote from: Locutus on July 04, 2012, 11:58:39 PM
Never know where ole' Jeebus is going to show up!
(http://i49.tinypic.com/necjeu.png)
Dang I thought it was Willy Nelson. :doh:
Quote from: me on July 05, 2012, 12:19:57 AM
Dang I thought it was Willy Nelson. :doh:
:haha: :thumbsup:
Looks like Sam Waterston with a beard to me. :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 09, 2012, 12:27:34 PM
Looks like Sam Waterston with a beard to me. :biggrin:
Or maybe Bruce Dern.
I think if it had the round glasses, it would be a spot on, John Lennon!
Out of all of the nominations put forth so far, I'm on board with HH and Lennon! ;D
:spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on July 09, 2012, 01:13:35 PM
Out of all of the nominations put forth so far, I'm on board with HH and Lennon! ;D
Are you loosing it Locutus. :spooked: :eek: :o
I wish the first rule of Christianity was the same as the first rule of Fight Club.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 12, 2012, 01:27:04 PM
I wish the first rule of Christianity was the same as the first rule of Fight Club.
:biggrin:
Can I get an AMEN on that?? :yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 12, 2012, 01:27:04 PM
I wish the first rule of Christianity was the same as the first rule of Fight Club.
and the second rule too! Right?
Had a bite to eat in a park over by the beach today after having a meeting. Nice day, sun off and on, and plenty of tourists around. I didn't stay long, because I had places to go and things to do. But as I was getting back into my car, who did I see hanging out on an old base of what appeared to have once been a lamppost?
Ole' Jeebus of course!! :biggrin:
(http://united-technology.com/misc/Jeebus.png)
I'd have guessed Che Guevara without a beard...or Neil Diamond...not sure which. :biggrin:
A young Chris Christopherson with long hair.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 12, 2012, 10:43:00 PM
I'd have guessed Che Guevara without a beard...or Neil Diamond...not sure which. :biggrin:
That's actually probably exactly who it was, but since people see Jeebus everywhere, I figured it must be him. ;D
Quote from: Exterminator on July 12, 2012, 10:43:00 PM
I'd have guessed Che Guevara without a beard...or Neil Diamond...not sure which. :biggrin:
I agree with you.....I see Neil Diamond, plain and simple... :yes:
Michael Landon definitely resemblance.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/michaellandon.jpg)
My vote goes to Heath Ledger resemblance...
(http://www.channelingerik.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Heath-Ledger.jpg)
Jim Morrison
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt1wgnr4Os1qfijw9o1_500.jpg)
ALEXANDRIA, La.—A federal judge has struck down a central Louisiana ordinance banning fortunetelling, palm reading, astrology and similar activities in the city of Alexandria.
U.S. District Judge Dee Drell's ruling Wednesday concurs with a magistrate's conclusion that the ordinance is unconstitutional.
Rachel Adams is a fortune-teller who says she accepts donations but doesn't charge for her services. She sued the city after a police officer issued her a court summons in 2011 for violating the ordinance. A violation can result in daily penalties of up to $500.
The city argued the business of fortunetelling is a fraud and inherently deceptive, but U.S. Magistrate James Kirk concluded that fortunetelling is free speech protected by the First Amendment.
Adams told The Town Talk newspaper last year that she is a fifth-generation psychic.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/07/13/judge_overturns_la_towns_fortunetelling_ban/
Quote from: Locutus on July 13, 2012, 12:56:31 PM
The city argued the business of fortunetelling is a fraud and inherently deceptive...
But religion isn't?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 13, 2012, 12:58:41 PM
But religion isn't?
Bingo!
I was just getting ready to say that one can assume with almost certainty that the law originated at the hands of some religious zealots who viewed such activity as evil. What people around those parts don't realize is that religion is equally guilty of perpetrating fraud on people. Stories about the Sky Daddy are just as fraudulent as astrology and fortune-telling, and arguably more damaging to society as a whole, but they wouldn't dare try and legislate against that. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on July 13, 2012, 01:01:33 PM
Bingo!
I was just getting ready to say that one can assume with almost certainty that the law originated at the hands of some religious zealots who viewed such activity as evil. What people around those parts don't realize is that religion is equally guilty of perpetrating fraud on people. Stories about the Sky Daddy are just as fraudulent as astrology and fortune-telling, and arguably more damaging to society as a whole, but they wouldn't dare try and legislate against that. :rolleyes:
Moreover their religious "tome", the bible, is rift with tales of psychics and one could say this is further validation of the hypocrisy that is rampant amongst the zealots.
Quote from: Palehorse on July 13, 2012, 01:03:57 PM
Moreover their religious "tome", the bible, is rift with tales of psychics and one could say this is further validation of the hypocrisy that is rampant amongst the zealots.
Yep! Revelation is a book that's entirely dedicated to that kind of crap. No offense to the pale horse referenced therein. :biggrin:
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
— Revelation 6:7-8 NIV
:spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on July 13, 2012, 01:15:23 PM
Yep! Revelation is a book that's entirely dedicated to that kind of crap. No offense to the pale horse referenced therein. :biggrin:
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
— Revelation 6:7-8 NIV
:spooked:
And from which I got my name! :biggrin:
:biggrin:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/599684_410401842330281_1066032272_n.jpg)
Who is that peeking out of the clouds on the left there?
(I snapped this on my iPhone from my backyard just about 10 minutes ago or so).
Quote from: Palehorse on July 14, 2012, 08:33:50 PM
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/599684_410401842330281_1066032272_n.jpg)
Who is that peeking out of the clouds on the left there?
(I snapped this on my iPhone from my backyard just about 10 minutes ago or so).
Here I cropped the photo so you can see who I am talking about:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/599684_410401842330281_1066032272_n-1.jpg)
Wow! That does look like a face, but reminds me of Zeus or Aristotle. :biggrin:
Or Michael Douglas with a beard. . . :big grin:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxv99fY76i1qz8tj3.jpg)
What would Michael Douglas be doing hanging out in the clouds? ;D
Quote from: Locutus on July 14, 2012, 09:38:30 PM
What would Michael Douglas be doing hanging out in the clouds? ;D
Maybe he was getting high? :icon_twisted:
Hum, I'm seeing an animal head.
If you really look at the whole picture, you're just looking at clouds. :music1: Flows and flows of angel's hair and cotton candy everywhere. :music1: I looked at clouds that way. :music1: And everyone knows that it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summer time. :music1: :wink: :smile:
Looks like an old man with no teeth.
Quote from: Anne on July 17, 2012, 12:03:39 AM
Looks like an old man with no teeth.
:toothless:
CNN) -- Hurt. Devastated. Crushed.
Those are words an African-American couple used to describe how they felt when they were forced to change the venue of their wedding because of their race.
"Because of the fact that we were black, some of the members of the congregation had got upset and decided that no black couple would ever be married at that church," Charles Wilson told CNN on Sunday night.
"All we wanted to do in the eyes of God was to be man and wife in a church that we thought we felt loved. What was wrong with that?"
Black couple denied wedding in church
Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson had planned to marry this month at the First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs in Mississippi, but were asked at the last minute to move.. . .
Their pastor, Stan Weatherford, made the request on behalf of some congregants who didn't want to see the couple married there, according to CNN affiliate WLBT. He performed the ceremony at a nearby church.
"This was, had not, had never been done here before so it was setting a new (precedent) and there were those who reacted to that," Weatherford told WLBT.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/us/mississippi-black-couple-wedding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/us/mississippi-black-couple-wedding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
Racist. . . pure and simple.
Quote from: Palehorse on July 30, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
CNN) -- Hurt. Devastated. Crushed.
Those are words an African-American couple used to describe how they felt when they were forced to change the venue of their wedding because of their race.
"Because of the fact that we were black, some of the members of the congregation had got upset and decided that no black couple would ever be married at that church," Charles Wilson told CNN on Sunday night.
"All we wanted to do in the eyes of God was to be man and wife in a church that we thought we felt loved. What was wrong with that?"
Black couple denied wedding in church
Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson had planned to marry this month at the First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs in Mississippi, but were asked at the last minute to move.. . .
Their pastor, Stan Weatherford, made the request on behalf of some congregants who didn't want to see the couple married there, according to CNN affiliate WLBT. He performed the ceremony at a nearby church.
"This was, had not, had never been done here before so it was setting a new (precedent) and there were those who reacted to that," Weatherford told WLBT.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/us/mississippi-black-couple-wedding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/us/mississippi-black-couple-wedding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
Racist. . . pure and simple.
Right here show you what 33% of the Republican voters think. Why would anyone think they are better than anyone else, just because of the color of a person's skin. What would Jesus say, the :@#%&: :sinner:
These racists bastard Republican hate Obama because of the half of his body is black. O0 I can't see how someone who claims to be such god fearing Sheeple would feel that way. :devil29:
But, I know for certain that I despise them as much as they despise Obama. :trustme:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 30, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
Racist. . . pure and simple.
Now guess which presidential canidate they'll support?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2012, 01:23:11 PM
Now guess which presidential canidate they'll support?
It's just like i stated on the other thread. Mitt Romney could be the proud owner of an abortion clinic, a gay marriage chapel, and a whorehouse, and they would still vote for him just to get the 'black' guy out of the 'White' House.
Quote from: Locutus on July 30, 2012, 01:29:38 PM
It's just like i stated on the other thread. Mitt Romney could be the proud owner of an abortion clinic, a gay marriage chapel, and a whorehouse, and they would still vote for him just to get the 'black' guy out of the 'White' House.
you guys are full of crap...that is what I think....not saying that there are not some seriously racial morons out there, but the VAST majority of conservatives, can care less what color the POTUS is. I would bet there are far more racially motivated voters who will not vote Romney because he is white.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2012, 01:37:42 PM
...the VAST majority of conservatives, can care less what color the POTUS is.
Bullshit.
Quote from: Locutus on July 30, 2012, 01:29:38 PM
It's just like i stated on the other thread. Mitt Romney could be the proud owner of an abortion clinic, a gay marriage chapel, and a whorehouse, and they would still vote for him just to get the 'black' guy out of the 'White' House.
You forgot one, a Mormon cult member bishop. Who gives million and takes millions of his taxes to the Mormon Cultist Church. Yep. :yes: :wink: :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2012, 01:37:42 PM
you guys are full of crap...that is what I think....not saying that there are not some seriously racial morons out there, but the VAST majority of conservatives, can care less what color the POTUS is. I would bet there are far more racially motivated voters who will not vote Romney because he is white.
Let us go back a few years Henry. Would you have voted for a Mormon in the past? No, I think not. You claim to be a born again Christian :pope: and born again Christians didn't vote for Mormons. :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :sneaky: :wink:
Quote from: The Troll on July 30, 2012, 01:49:33 PM
Let us go back a few years Henry. Would you have voted for a Mormon in the past? No, I think not. You claim to be a born again Christian :pope: and born again Christians didn't vote for Mormons. :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :sneaky: :wink:
We are not a few years ago, we are NOW. He is the only conservative (closest to it) running against a liberal, who is not a good leader.
He religous views does not bother me. I do not feel threatened by him what-so-ever. He has never indicated on utlizing any strange religious beliefs as his barometer. I DO, feel threatened by Obama and the democrats stayng in power for another four years. Our economy is struggling....the housing market is still dropping....consumer confidence is still down.
the bottom line is this, Christians will vote for the best man for the job. That appears to be Romney at this time.
So Mitten's dad was born on a Mormon compound in Mexico where his grandparents had fled to avoid the U.S. cracking down on polygamy...nice!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2012, 02:04:31 PM
We are not a few years ago, we are NOW. He is the only conservative (closest to it) running against a liberal, who is not a good leader.
He religous views does not bother me. I do not feel threatened by him what-so-ever. He has never indicated on utlizing any strange religious beliefs as his barometer. I DO, feel threatened by Obama and the democrats stayng in power for another four years. Our economy is struggling....the housing market is still dropping....consumer confidence is still down.
the bottom line is this, Christians will vote for the best man for the job. That appears to be Romney at this time.
Henry, you would vote for a 6 foot turd if it was branded "Conservative" :rolleyes: :razz: Come to think about it, Romney is a 6 foot turd. :haha:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 30, 2012, 03:20:04 PM
So Mitten's dad was born on a Mormon compound in Mexico where his grandparents had fled to avoid the U.S. cracking down on polygamy...nice!
And that has what to do with Mitt? He has been married to the same woman for a lot of years and has no other wives.
Quote from: me on July 30, 2012, 10:41:14 PM
And that has what to do with Mitt? He has been married to the same woman for a lot of years and has no other wives.
So you're say that the only good thing he's got going for him. :wink: That's one reason he's not a Republican, most have more than one wife. :sneaky: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on July 31, 2012, 08:34:13 AM
So you're say that the only good thing he's got going for him. :wink: That's one reason he's not a Republican, most have more than one wife. :sneaky: :biggrin:
really? :roll eyes: seriously, are you mixing your meds with some moonshine? :confused:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2012, 08:36:50 AM
really? :roll eyes: seriously, are you mixing your meds with some moonshine? :confused:
Yep, I'm still on my meds and I take smart pills everyday. But you're still drinking the poison Republican KoolAid. :koolaid: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Henry and :zoners:
Quote from: me on July 30, 2012, 10:41:14 PM
And that has what to do with Mitt? He has been married to the same woman for a lot of years and has no other wives.
Hey it's just the GOP methodology of raining the sins of the father, brother, minister, associate, upon the "son". Now that we know his grandfather was a polygamist and Mexican resident, I just have one question: "Where's the birth certificate?"
Quote from: Palehorse on July 31, 2012, 11:28:32 AM
Hey it's just the GOP methodology of raining the sins of the father, brother, minister, associate, upon the "son". Now that we know his grandfather was a polygamist and Mexican resident, I just have one question: "Where's the birth certificate?"
we got three years to show it....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2012, 11:49:53 AM
we got three years to show it....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 31, 2012, 11:28:32 AM
Hey it's just the GOP methodology of raining the sins of the father, brother, minister, associate, upon the "son". Now that we know his grandfather was a polygamist and Mexican resident, I just have one question: "Where's the birth certificate?"
Just think how fair and reasonable the Republicans are. The first president asked for his birth certificate and his religious affiliations and they wanted his college grades. That person was Obama.
Now the Golden Mitten has not been asked by the Republicans for his birth certificate, his school grades, his affiliations with the Mormon Church, which he won't talk about and he won't show his tax reports or anything about his offshore bank accounts where he has stashed millions and millions of dollars. This money is no help to the American economy. This job killer is just the person we need to put this country back to were it was before George W. and the Republican Party got a hold of it. :mad: :mad: :mad:
How could anyone in his right mind and morals veto for such a lying son of a bitch. :rant:
Something sure is fishy. You can smell the dead fish all over his campaign. What a crook. :haha: :haha;
Henry says he's a good man. :rolleyes:
I'm just not blind to see things as to what the really are. The propaganda around Mitt is phenomenal.
I can look back at his history and see what he has accomplished and what he stands for.
CEO, Gov, Head of Olympics. He has a nice family, raising five good sons, and has been married for 42 years. He has spent most of his life under the public eye. No dirt to speak of. NOW, that obama is getting desperate, the polls are not favorable to him, the economy is nearly in the tank again...and now Romney is a bad guy.... :roll eyes:
Not buying it.... :no:
Obama was not that way. He was a one-term senator and a community organizer. Has a questionable past, that has hardly been scrutinized by NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, NY Times and on and on and on.
Mitt is going to get the votes by people who really want change and hope for the future. People who are going to vote for him are hard working, middle classed Americans, who are tired of the grid lock in Washington. People who are tired of Washington who has spent $6.5 TRILLION since 2008! and NOTHING to show for it, but an economy that is still with over 8% unemployement! Housing market that is still falling! Consumer Confidence that has been extremely low, and barely moving up.
Yeah Ex, he is a good man! Keep on with your witch hunt though, and maybe you guys will convince enough ignorant Americans to believe you.....though, I am becoming more and more certain, every day that we will have a Romney victory in November.
So, I am just going to hang out here, and watch you guys squirm and attack, until November gets here.
Read: Romney's white; Obama isn't.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2012, 03:07:12 PM
Read: Romney's white; Obama isn't.
That's all you got!! and even THAT is wrong!!! (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
It's a duck.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2012, 03:19:07 PM
It's a duck.
you are killing me!! you got nothing! (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
I have the truth.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2012, 03:36:29 PM
I have the truth.
It has become quite obvious, that you would not know the truth if it bit you in the ass...with your "racial" motivated retort, it only signifies that you have nothing and are grasping at straws to make a lick of sense out of WHY people are no longer following Obama, blindly, the way they did in 2008. Those very "racists" that you are claiming, who voted for him then, no longer find his ability to talk a good game worthy of what is best for America....but now know that he is NOT the leader they was hoping for. He has failed! It is that simple.
And yet, he will be re-elected despite your ilk's misguided and irrational hatred.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2012, 04:16:32 PM
And yet, he will be re-elected despite your ilk's misguided and irrational hatred.
The only hatred I see, is by the liberal left....you and troll or great examples of the hate that is generated by the left. It is extremely misguided and very, very irrational....but, yet ... there is it! Right there, every day.
I can say honestly, I do not hate Obama....but, I sincerely believe he is not capable of leading us in the direction we must go.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2012, 02:56:33 PM
I'm just not blind to see things as to what the really are. The propaganda around Mitt is phenomenal.
I can look back at his history and see what he has accomplished and what he stands for.
CEO, Gov, Head of Olympics. He has a nice family, raising five good sons, and has been married for 42 years. He has spent most of his life under the public eye. No dirt to speak of. NOW, that obama is getting desperate, the polls are not favorable to him, the economy is nearly in the tank again...and now Romney is a bad guy.... :roll eyes:
Not buying it.... :no:
Obama was not that way. He was a one-term senator and a community organizer. Has a questionable past, that has hardly been scrutinized by NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, NY Times and on and on and on.
Mitt is going to get the votes by people who really want change and hope for the future. People who are going to vote for him are hard working, middle classed Americans, who are tired of the grid lock in Washington. People who are tired of Washington who has spent $6.5 TRILLION since 2008! and NOTHING to show for it, but an economy that is still with over 8% unemployement! Housing market that is still falling! Consumer Confidence that has been extremely low, and barely moving up.
Yeah Ex, he is a good man! Keep on with your witch hunt though, and maybe you guys will convince enough ignorant Americans to believe you.....though, I am becoming more and more certain, every day that we will have a Romney victory in November.
So, I am just going to hang out here, and watch you guys squirm and attack, until November gets here.
You're SICK Henry. With you it's all about the money. You only care for the Rich People and the Corporations who wouldn't give you shit or a breath of good fresh air.
Romney is nothing but a starched white empty shirt. A self made man? :azz: Everybody could be a self made man if your daddy gave you a Million dollars to go to college. Ronmey doesn't know shit, just like you Henry. It shows his incompetency every day when he doesn't have his teleprompter. :haha:
It is to bad you aren't black and live in Florida, you probably wouldn't get to vote. :wink: :biggrin: Another Republican dirty trick. I got to say they are the best at lying and telling saying things that aren't true and keeping people from voting. especially since the GOP has bought the Supreme Court. :mad: :rant:
Quote from: The Troll on July 31, 2012, 06:24:45 PM
You're SICK Henry. With you it's all about the money. You only care for the Rich People and the Corporations who wouldn't give you shit or a breath of good fresh air.
Romney is nothing but a starched white empty shirt. A self made man? :azz: Everybody could be a self made man if your daddy gave you a Million dollars to go to college. Ronmey doesn't know shit, just like you Henry. It shows his incompetency every day when he doesn't have his teleprompter. :haha:
It is to bad you aren't black and live in Florida, you probably wouldn't get to vote. :wink: :biggrin: Another Republican dirty trick. I got to say they are the best at lying and telling saying things that aren't true and keeping people from voting. especially since the GOP has bought the Supreme Court. :mad: :rant:
stfu already....you spew the same crap all the time. You have been so misled, that you don't know what the truth is anymore. Quit watching MSNBC and try the "fair & balanced" approach and get the truth for a change!! :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2012, 06:41:57 PM
stfu already....you spew the same crap all the time. You have been so misled, that you don't know what the truth is anymore. Quit watching MSNBC and try the "fair & balanced" approach and get the truth for a change!! :)
:nocomment: But the stupidity runs deep in your mind. :haha:
I didn't know exactly where to post this .....
I read this this morning .....
"I view Jesus much the way I view Elvis," he said. "I love the guy, but some of the fan clubs terrify me."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/tv-column/post/comedian-john-fugelsang-developing-a-primetime-show-with-current-tv/2012/08/01/gJQAnlJSPX_blog.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/tv-column/post/comedian-john-fugelsang-developing-a-primetime-show-with-current-tv/2012/08/01/gJQAnlJSPX_blog.html)
Quote from: Olias on August 02, 2012, 01:33:55 PM
I didn't know exactly where to post this .....
I read this this morning .....
"I view Jesus much the way I view Elvis," he said. "I love the guy, but some of the fan clubs terrify me."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/tv-column/post/comedian-john-fugelsang-developing-a-primetime-show-with-current-tv/2012/08/01/gJQAnlJSPX_blog.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/tv-column/post/comedian-john-fugelsang-developing-a-primetime-show-with-current-tv/2012/08/01/gJQAnlJSPX_blog.html)
I'm glad to hear it. I watch Current TV, 358 Direct TV, every morning. The Bill Press show. The difference between Bill's show and Fox and Friend is amazing.. It is unbelievable how the Three Stooges on Fox can lie and distort the truth and the news. Bill will give you the truth. But, then and again, you don't have to lie when you have the right and the truth on your side. :yeah: for Current TV 358. :yes: :biggrin:
"Current TV is developing a primetime show with comic John Fugelsang, which he described Wednesday as "an attack ad on apathy, taking the flag back from phony patriots, taking the Bible back from the hypocrites and taking Bath Salts back from Glenn Beck."
:biggrin:
Quote from: Olias on August 02, 2012, 01:49:43 PM
"Current TV is developing a primetime show with comic John Fugelsang, which he described Wednesday as "an attack ad on apathy, taking the flag back from phony patriots, taking the Bible back from the hypocrites and taking Bath Salts back from Glenn Beck."
:biggrin:
:yes:
That guy's a loon for sure. He's flat-out bat shit crazy. Scarier still is that he has a following.
Quote from: Locutus on August 02, 2012, 01:54:30 PM
:yes:
That guy's a loon for sure. He's flat-out bat shit crazy. Scarier still is that he has a following.
I'm going to give it a try. He can't be any loonyer than Bill O'Reily and Hannity and the The other Loony Tooners on Fox. :rotfl: Just a bunch of squirrels looking for some nuts. :yes: :yes: :biggrin:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/292467_10150959480971517_672404409_n.jpg)
OUCH!
but so true!
And THAT display at the Chew-a-Chicken is why I cannot stand the hypocrisy of damn near every x-tian I've ever met.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 03, 2012, 12:17:07 PM
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/292467_10150959480971517_672404409_n.jpg)
I can tell you this much.....I have worked in food banks and homeless shelters with my church, many times.
but I have NEVER, EVER treated another hard working person in the crappy way this fucktard did in this video....
This is a typical liberal buttcrust who is "preaching" against HATE.........he is a hypocrit and a real asshole.
btw, I went to chic-fil-a's to support free speach.....the owner did not do ONE damn thing wrong.
Watch this video and see what I am talking about....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-jzlWcc0E
^^ Did you see he lost his job because of that?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/
Quote from: Locutus on August 03, 2012, 02:40:53 PM
^^ Did you see he lost his job because of that?
Yes! I, personally find it very humorous.....He thought he was doing something great, by posting his crap on youtube, without this girls permission to boot...
Did you see that a Chick-fil-A restaurant in Torrance, Calif. was hit by vandals overnight who spray painted the words "Tastes like hate" on a back wall.
Again, the owner did NOTHING wrong, but state in an interview, that he supported traditional marriage.....and the real "Haters" of free speech have come out of the wood work.
PH's post about shelters and food banks is still right on target, nonetheless.
My wife and I volunteer with a food bank/shelter. We have a really hard time getting enough volunteers just to hand out food.
Quote from: Olias on August 03, 2012, 03:31:25 PM
PH's post about shelters and food banks is still right on target, nonetheless.
My wife and I volunteer with a food bank/shelter. We have a really hard time getting enough volunteers just to hand out food.
So did we.......the same few was ALWAYS the ones to work it.
PH's post is a just another sterotypical response....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 03:34:19 PM
So did we.......the same few was ALWAYS the ones to work it.
PH's post is a just another sterotypical response....
You just put down his post and confirmed its truth. :confused:
Quote from: Olias on August 03, 2012, 03:35:51 PM
You just put down his post and confirmed its truth. :confused:
I am saying that his statement claiming you "never see that many Christians line up to help at a food bank" is sterotyping a group of people....he has no facts or basis other than an opinion.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 03:48:17 PM
I am saying that his statement claiming you "never see that many Christians line up to help at a food bank" is sterotyping a group of people....he has no facts or basis other than an opinion.
But you yourself confirmed its truth. "the same few was ALWAYS the ones to work it."
Quote from: Olias on August 03, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
But you yourself confirmed its truth. "the same few was ALWAYS the ones to work it."
it is still implying that "Christians" are the one's being hypocritical....what point is there to saying it at all? Isn't it too...just HATEFUL?
The poster or signs, only purpose is to take a stab at one group of people to whom they think is 'hateful'...
My reason for going to chik-fil-a was more because of the free speech.....the owner made a statement during an interview, claiming he is in favor of traditional marriage........and the liberals (i.e. Rahm Emanual) took that as being intolerant...and said that Chicago doesn't share the same values....and chic-fil-a would be a bad investment in chicago....
then the creeps like the one in the video who attacked the girl for just working there.....I think HATE is not a Christian thing as much as it is a liberal thing.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 04:17:51 PM
My reason for going to chik-fil-a was more because of the free speech....
My ass.
QuoteI think HATE is not a Christian thing...
No more or less so than Muslim fundamentalists... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 03, 2012, 04:35:26 PM
My ass.
No more or less so than Muslim fundamentalists... :rolleyes:
You always confirm my thoughts about you.....that being you DON'T know what you are talking about.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 04:39:52 PM
You always confirm my thoughts about you.....that being you DON'T know what you are talking about.
Henry there could be no bigger difference between you and the Troll. Before the advent of Jerry Farwell, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swargert and the television evangelist the Christians mind there own business. Now they got there nose in everybodies business.
It was amazing to see how many Homophobic people that there is in America having a stamped at Chick O Crap . Sticking their nose in someone Else's business like the Homophobic CEO of Chick O Crap. Who in hell cares if gays get married. It is none of the damn Christian business. :mad: :mad: :rant:
Every time you buy something, your giving the Homophobic CEO money to fight somebodies free rights. Can the Homophobic asshole. :rant:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 04:39:52 PM
You always confirm my thoughts about you.....that being you DON'T know what you are talking about.
And you always confirm my thoughts about you...that you are now and will always be nothing more than an illiterate redneck.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 30, 2012, 01:37:42 PM
you guys are full of crap...that is what I think....not saying that there are not some seriously racial morons out there, but the VAST majority of conservatives, can care less what color the POTUS is. I would bet there are far more racially motivated voters who will not vote Romney because he is white.
I'm sorry HH, and don't want to get into this fight, and no, I haven't been reading this thread -- just happened in -- but I do have to disagree with you on this: "the VAST majority of conservatives, can (sic ) care less what color the POTUS is..."
Where do you live? Indiana? You should come east, and head south, beginning in Virginia and southern WV.
(Because nobody writing here, except for maybe one person, knows who I am, I can speak frankly):
them good ole boys and gals and lots uv others who kin speak and write proper don't mince no words where that thar black man in the white house is concerned. I have stopped opening e-mails from people I have known since grade school, some relatives, and others, because of the stunningly malicious, often blatent lies and distortions they send out -- some in the name of christianity, God and Jesus.
I asked one old friend to stop sending me political e-mails after one particularly mean one that ended with "Obama will roast in hell!"
You should hear the compassionate x-tians in the local choke-n-puke where I go to get coffee.
Every Friday morning there is a meeting of the self-appointed leaders of the multiple churches in this little town.
The conversation about that "n****r" in the White House is worse than in the local bar.
Compassionate followers of x-tianity for sure.
Quote from: followsthewolf on August 03, 2012, 09:53:38 PM
The conversation about that "n****r" in the White House is worse than in the local bar.
At least they have the balls to say what their problem with him really is rather than masquerading behind "policy" that they clearly don't understand and most often have wrong.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 03, 2012, 10:03:47 PM
At least they have the balls to say what their problem with him really is rather than masquerading behind "policy" that they clearly don't understand and most often have wrong.
I think we have one of those old gray hairs here on the zone, she from Anderson. I think she is one of those religious N----- O0 closet haters. :wink: :smile:
Quote from: followsthewolf on August 03, 2012, 09:53:38 PM
You should hear the compassionate x-tians in the local choke-n-puke where I go to get coffee.
Every Friday morning there is a meeting of the self-appointed leaders of the multiple churches in this little town.
The conversation about that "n****r" in the White House is worse than in the local bar.
Compassionate followers of x-tianity for sure.
I had an experience this evening that was very similar. A lady that works for me within a contingency roll wore her Obama for POTUS shirt to work this evening. She is a HARD working woman and does excellent work. She is one I have "earmarked" for strong consideration for potential future openings as a full time employee. A real joy to be around, and I mean that seriously.
Another long term employee came into my office and told me he was going to ask her for her shirt to use as a target at the range. . .
I told him how wrong that was, and he didn't do it, but it just goes to show you the breadth and depth at which racism runs in this area as well. . . :mad:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 03:48:17 PM
I am saying that his statement claiming you "never see that many Christians line up to help at a food bank" is sterotyping a group of people....he has no facts or basis other than an opinion.
As Olias so aptly replied:
Quote from: Olias on August 03, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
But you yourself confirmed its truth. "the same few was ALWAYS the ones to work it."
Is your church, and every church in your area full on Sundays?
Where are those same people when it comes time to exhibit caring and doing charitable work?
Are those things that Jeebus said should be done or not? (Don't make me provide the quotations from scripture). . .
"Another long term employee came into my office and told me he was going to ask her for her shirt to use as a target at the range. . ."
I think I would have had a VERY difficult time controlling myself while I explained why I would never want to hear a remark like that again.
Quote from: followsthewolf on August 03, 2012, 09:53:38 PM
You should hear the compassionate x-tians in the local choke-n-puke where I go to get coffee.
Every Friday morning there is a meeting of the self-appointed leaders of the multiple churches in this little town.
The conversation about that "n****r" in the White House is worse than in the local bar.
Compassionate followers of x-tianity for sure.
Hey, I liked the Choke-N-Puke :puke: Got to remember that for future use. I can use it, can't I? :wink: :smile: :thumbsup: Why not is just dead chicken. :chick:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2012, 04:39:52 PM
You always confirm my thoughts about you.....that being you DON'T know what you are talking about.
I'm sorry Henry, If you and Ex was on "Jeopardy" I would have to put money Exterminator. I wouldn't to put my money on you, cause you're a little slow. :laugh: :wink:
Quote from: The Troll on August 04, 2012, 09:54:08 AM
I'm sorry Henry, If you and Ex was on "Jeopardy" I would have to put money Exterminator. I wouldn't to put my money on you, cause you're a little slow. :laugh: :wink:
LMAO! And your money would be safer than in a bank.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 04, 2012, 11:57:10 AM
LMAO! And your money would be safer than in a bank.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It is terrible to make fun and criticize the stupid, the mentally ill and brain dead people. But it sure is fun to jump :smash: :poke: and :bsplit: split the two banana twins. ;D
Face it...some people are like slinkies...not good for much but it sure is fun to push them down the stairs!
Quote from: Exterminator on August 04, 2012, 01:45:04 PM
Face it...some people are like slinkies...not good for much but it sure is fun to push them down the stairs!
After many, many years being raised in a very Christian family and have seen another light. Why are there so smart, intelligent, kind people believe there is a invisible man in the sky watching everything they do and get down on there knees to pray to him. :jc:
If they would look around, open their eyes. :eye: and read other information that the bible is phony and the work of men. They would come to believe like me there is no Sky Guy. He is all smoke, mirrors and is backup by a bunch of lying preachers. Who said that the devil (preachers) wasn't still working :devil29: :yes: :yes:
And I say again....Obama should just remain president forever since no one is good enough to run against him and he's the first black, oops not black, mixed race president to serve and he's so perfect no one could ever replace him.
Quote from: me on August 07, 2012, 09:43:25 AM
And I say again....Obama should just remain president forever since no one is good enough to run against him and he's the first black, oops not black, mixed race president to serve and he's so perfect no one could ever replace him.
Well Kido, your Republican sure hasn't showed us any good candidates. All you have givens us the the rich trash, the garbage and the misfits of your party. I'll bet some of the great GOP member are turning over in their graves when looking at the people your party has dug :dig: up. Hee, hee, hee. :kiss:
Quote from: The Troll on August 07, 2012, 01:27:23 PM
Well Kido, your Republican sure hasn't showed us any good candidates. All you have givens us the the rich trash, the garbage and the misfits of your party. I'll bet some of the great GOP member are turning over in their graves when looking at the people your party has dug :dig: up. Hee, hee, hee. :kiss:
Wouldn't matter who ran the liberals would figure out a way to trash them and you know it.
Quote from: me on August 07, 2012, 03:13:44 PM
Wouldn't matter who ran the liberals would figure out a way to trash them and you know it.
Yeah, like the tea baggers tried to trash Obama over his birth certificate?
My point (in another thread) exactly.
All of a sudden "me" is full of integrity and righteousness.
My, my.
SUCH hypocrisy.
Quote from: Olias on August 07, 2012, 03:42:42 PM
Yeah, like the tea baggers tried to trash Obama over his birth certificate?
Well whoopty do. I do not belong to the Tea Party and I do believe I stated over a year ago that even Fox said there was nothing to it and that people should move on and forget about it. You don't discuss issues you bad mouth and trash and if you don't like something I say you are all up my ass about the Tea Party and I have nothing to do with that other than knowing they aren't violent like ya'll have been lead to believe so stuff it.
Quote from: me on August 07, 2012, 06:07:26 PM
Well whoopty do. I do not belong to the Tea Party and I do believe I stated over a year ago that even Fox said there was nothing to it and that people should move on and forget about it. You don't discuss issues you bad mouth and trash and if you don't like something I say you are all up my ass about the Tea Party and I have nothing to do with that other than knowing they aren't violent like ya'll have been lead to believe so stuff it.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. . .
Quote from: me on August 07, 2012, 06:07:26 PM
Well whoopty do. I do not belong to the Tea Party and I do believe I stated over a year ago that even Fox said there was nothing to it and that people should move on and forget about it. You don't discuss issues you bad mouth and trash and if you don't like something I say you are all up my ass about the Tea Party and I have nothing to do with that other than knowing they aren't violent like ya'll have been lead to believe so stuff it.
Quote from: me on August 07, 2012, 09:33:00 AM
Got a guilty conscience do ya? I didn't say you now did I?
What goes around....
Quote from: Palehorse on August 08, 2012, 11:30:02 AM
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. . .
Horse, have you ever seen a Red Headed Duck quack. I never seen one quack, but I sure have heard a Red Headed Duck quack here on the Zone.
Quack, quack, quack, quack, quack, QUACK!!!!!!! :flap: quack! :flap: quack! :flap: QUACK!!! :haha: :haha:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/248174_434174199950620_884204488_n.jpg)
Quote from: Palehorse on August 20, 2012, 09:04:14 AM
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/248174_434174199950620_884204488_n.jpg)
What? No comment?! :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on August 20, 2012, 07:59:22 PM
What? No comment?! :biggrin:
Bad Horse, :baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :nowink: :jc: The devil is going to get you. :devil74: :haha:
Someone like Big Bang Theory! :)
Quote from: Anne on August 21, 2012, 01:22:19 AM
Someone like Big Bang Theory! :)
As usual your statement went over my head. What do you mean, "someone like the Big Bang Theory". Are you talking about the TV show. :confused:
Yeah.
Sheldon on the tv show frequently wears Green Lantern t-shirts.
Quote from: followsthewolf on August 21, 2012, 09:06:39 AM
Yeah.
Sheldon on the tv show frequently wears Green Lantern t-shirts.
Oh yes, I seem him at his finest. He also wears the red suit of the Flash. :biggrin:
And they play the "Sheldon" version of rock/paper/scissors.
Do think that God is after the Republicans for them using his name to win the presidency. :sneaky: Do you think he is controlling this hurricane to wake them up. By tearing up Florida for their sins. :haha:
Why can't he wait and get them all together at the convention and leave the rest of Florida alone. :haha: Go get them God. :haha:
Some of you wonder why I say some of the things I say around here, but this is part of it. We allow these kind of people to vote. It's far more than scary.
From a newspaper comment:
Quote
warren says:
August 23, 2012 at 7:24 pm
It puzzles me to see some christians here that are repub so willing to sell out their faith to a Mormon cult. Mormons are not christians.I am a repub and will sit this election out,this is a lession the gop has to learn so next time they do not have a cultist as our candidate..........so I will wait till 2016 to get a honest christian candidate not a fake man,fake christian like Romney.
Quote from: Locutus on August 23, 2012, 08:20:34 PM
Some of you wonder why I say some of the things I say around here, but this is part of it. We allow these kind of people to vote. It's far more than scary.
From a newspaper comment:
But, that is why we are the country we are, because we all have that liberty to believe what we want.......but for the record, I think Warren is being foolish, but that is his right.
There are some folks who vote for Obama simply because he is black. Some folks will vote for Romney because he is white. I think the people have more capabilities to learn more and more about candidates and make better informed decisions than we did 20 years ago.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 23, 2012, 09:27:03 PM
But, that is why we are the country we are, because we all have that liberty to believe what we want.......but for the record, I think Warren is being foolish, but that is his right.
There are some folks who vote for Obama simply because he is black. Some folks will vote for Romney because he is white. I think the people have more capabilities to learn more and more about candidates and make better informed decisions than we did 20 years ago.
A right to be foolish is dangerous. Especially when you're allowed to vote, and ergo, have a say in our collective destiny. That kind of shit right there scares the hell out of me.
As an aside, Y, and I said on some other thread that
real Christians loathe Mormonism and believe that it's a cult. This post from that newspaper site is proof positive of exactly what we were talking about. :yes:
Olias also offered up some evidence that there are real and meaningful differences between Christians and Mormons on whatever thread that was.
I'm sure there IS some REAL difference between beleifs of Christians and Mormons...some MAJOR belief differences. What is your point? How does that make a real difference in how one votes any differently than an atheist?
How is it any more dangerous than illeterates casting a vote, or gang-bangers voting? It's just the way it is. We have been doing pretty good for the most part for nearly 236 years now.
Speaking of Mormons......
Seems we already have a "cultist" Mormon in the senate. :rotfl: :rotfl:
You might want to check this out: http://www.famousmormons.net/
Harry Reid
US Senate Majority Leader
Democrat
Nevada Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (C)(D-NV) Reid, a moderate Nevada Democrat, was elected by colleagues on Tuesday November 14th 2006 as U.S. Senate majority leader for the 110th Congress
First elected to the Senate in 1986. He served as the Senate minority leader, replacing Senator Tom Daschle (D, SD) who lost his seat in a very close race to Congressman John Thune (R, SD). "The biggest strength he has is that he always keeps his word," says Senator Patrick Leahy (D,VT). "He's a straight shooter, smart and easy to work with," says Senate Republican whip Mitch McConnell.
Source: CNN
Mormon and Democrat? At the same time? Yes it is possible and it will surprise LDS members to find out many popular Mormons were or are democrats.
Church President Heber J. Grant started out as an ardent Democrat. Also among Democratic First Presidency counselors who have been Democrat Anthony R. Ivins, a passionate Democrat Charles W. Penrose, equally passionate; John Rex Winder; John Willard Young; Stephen L. Richards; Henry D. Moyle; Hugh B. Brown, another ardent Democrat; and his nephew, N. Eldon. Apostles who have been Democrats are poet and historian Orson F. Whitney; Franklin D. Richards; Moses Thatcher; Abraham H. Cannon; Stephen L. Richards; Melvin J. Ballard; and Joseph F. Merrill. Source an e-article by Todd Compton
That nutjob Glenn Beck is also a Mormon. Don't forget about him. I was listening to him a bit on the radio today and that guy is flat out nuts. Either that or he deserves credit for figuring out how to successfully profit from lying his ass off, and exploiting the most stupid and vulnerable among us.
Quote from: me on August 24, 2012, 07:30:58 PM
Speaking of Mormons......
Seems we already have a "cultist" Mormon in the senate. :rotfl: :rotfl:
You might want to check this out: http://www.famousmormons.net/
Harry Reid
US Senate Majority Leader
Democrat
Nevada Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (C)(D-NV) Reid, a moderate Nevada Democrat, was elected by colleagues on Tuesday November 14th 2006 as U.S. Senate majority leader for the 110th Congress
First elected to the Senate in 1986. He served as the Senate minority leader, replacing Senator Tom Daschle (D, SD) who lost his seat in a very close race to Congressman John Thune (R, SD). "The biggest strength he has is that he always keeps his word," says Senator Patrick Leahy (D,VT). "He's a straight shooter, smart and easy to work with," says Senate Republican whip Mitch McConnell.
Source: CNN
Mormon and Democrat? At the same time? Yes it is possible and it will surprise LDS members to find out many popular Mormons were or are democrats.
Church President Heber J. Grant started out as an ardent Democrat. Also among Democratic First Presidency counselors who have been Democrat Anthony R. Ivins, a passionate Democrat Charles W. Penrose, equally passionate; John Rex Winder; John Willard Young; Stephen L. Richards; Henry D. Moyle; Hugh B. Brown, another ardent Democrat; and his nephew, N. Eldon. Apostles who have been Democrats are poet and historian Orson F. Whitney; Franklin D. Richards; Moses Thatcher; Abraham H. Cannon; Stephen L. Richards; Melvin J. Ballard; and Joseph F. Merrill. Source an e-article by Todd Compton
You're not too swift are you? I pointed that out when Harry, (a high ranking member of the Mormon Church), was asking the Golden Mitten to release his tax returns like his daddy did; setting the precedent. :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on August 24, 2012, 09:34:52 PM
You're not too swift are you? I pointed that out when Harry, (a high ranking member of the Mormon Church), was asking the Golden Mitten to release his tax returns like his daddy did; setting the precedent. :biggrin:
I must have missed that particular post.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 24, 2012, 08:24:12 AM
I'm sure there IS some REAL difference between beleifs of Christians and Mormons...some MAJOR belief differences.
There are real differences. I would expect you of all people to know exactly what I'm talking about. I've heard almost from the day I was born, from every Christian that I've ever known in my life, that Mormonism is a cult. Never
ever heard them referred to as Christians.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 24, 2012, 08:24:12 AM
What is your point? How does that make a real difference in how one votes any differently than an atheist?
Because an atheist wouldn't say something like this.
Quote
warren says:
August 23, 2012 at 7:24 pm
It puzzles me to see some christians here that are repub so willing to sell out their faith to a Mormon cult. Mormons are not christians.I am a repub and will sit this election out,this is a lession the gop has to learn so next time they do not have a cultist as our candidate..........so I will wait till 2016 to get a honest christian candidate not a fake man,fake christian like Romney.
This kind of attitude is dangerous. It's dangerous for the future of our country when we have people like this either in or out of the ballot box depending on their version of the Sky Daddy. You, and I'm sure 'warren' too, would excoriate Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for his wacko beliefs based on religion, but you both hold to some equally wacky shit and it's just as dangerous. People who think and vote like that are dangerous.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 24, 2012, 08:24:12 AM
How is it any more dangerous than illeterates casting a vote, or gang-bangers voting? It's just the way it is. We have been doing pretty good for the most part for nearly 236 years now.
This republic is still an experiment. 236 years is hardly enough time to claim success on what we have going on in this country. We have an enormous number of people who can recite all kinds of Bible stories and verses, tell you all about how everyone who doesn't agree with them is a cult, yet can't tell you anything factual about current events, politics, or world news.
Ignorance, en masse, is a far greater danger to the survival of this country than any bomb, foreign army, or terrorist could
ever pose. I know you won't agree with me on that, but I'm sure there are several members here who know
exactly what I'm talking about. :yes:
And as far as 'warren' is concerned, he can sit this election out, and hopefully sit every one out that occurs between now and the time he takes a dirt nap. We'll all be better off with the 'warrens' of the world out of the voting booth.
and that is just a fine opinion you have. No better than mine.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 25, 2012, 09:06:25 AM
and that is just a fine opinion you have. No better than mine.
Well since you didn't offer one up, so far it certainly is better than yours. :wink:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 24, 2012, 08:24:12 AM
How is it any more dangerous than illeterates casting a vote...
Irony alert!
Quote from: Locutus on August 24, 2012, 11:27:39 PM
Ignorance, en masse, is a far greater danger to the survival of this country than any bomb, foreign army, or terrorist could ever pose. I know you won't agree with me on that, but I'm sure there are several members here who know exactly what I'm talking about. :yes:
Oh, hell yes!
Bill Nye the Science Guy thinks God sucks too. ;D
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Scientist and children's television personality Bill Nye, in a newly released online video, panned biblical creationism and implored American parents who reject the scientific theory of evolution not to teach their beliefs to their youngsters.
"I say to the grownups, 'If you want to deny evolution and live in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we've observed in the universe that's fine. But don't make your kids do it,'" said Nye, best known as host of the educational TV series "Bill Nye the Science Guy."
Link (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-28/news/sns-rt-us-usa-creationism-sciencebre87r04j-20120827_1_science-guy-bill-nye-evolution)
Say, do you think that all of those gay Republicans in those Gay Bars in Florida. Prayed really hard. :pray: and change the course of the hurricane so it would hit New Orleans where George W. and Brownie did such a good job. :rolleyes: :no:
Quote from: The Troll on August 28, 2012, 02:42:44 PM
Say, do you think that all of those gay Republicans in those Gay Bars in Florida. Prayed really hard. :pray: and change the course of the hurricane so it would hit New Orleans where George W. and Brownie did such a good job. :rolleyes: :no:
They just prayed harder than the dem gays in the gay bars who wanted it to head that way is all.
Quote from: me on August 28, 2012, 03:00:26 PM
They just prayed harder than the dem gays in the gay bars who wanted it to head that way is all.
:haha: :haha: A typical "ME" come back. :haha: Kumquat Sweetie. :kiss:
Quote from: Locutus on August 28, 2012, 01:03:05 PM
Bill Nye the Science Guy thinks God sucks too. ;D
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Scientist and children's television personality Bill Nye, in a newly released online video, panned biblical creationism and implored American parents who reject the scientific theory of evolution not to teach their beliefs to their youngsters.
"I say to the grownups, 'If you want to deny evolution and live in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we've observed in the universe that's fine. But don't make your kids do it,'" said Nye, best known as host of the educational TV series "Bill Nye the Science Guy."
Link (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-28/news/sns-rt-us-usa-creationism-sciencebre87r04j-20120827_1_science-guy-bill-nye-evolution)
That's why the authoritarians and religious fundamentalists want to control the educational opportunities of the young. They know if you can indoctrinate children, those children will find it difficult to break that indoctrination as adults. It's why I see religion being forced on children as mental child abuse.
Quote from: Y on August 28, 2012, 04:48:15 PM
That's why the authoritarians and religious fundamentalists want to control the educational opportunities of the young. They know if you can indoctrinate children, those children will find it difficult to break that indoctrination as adults. It's why I see religion being forced on children as mental child abuse.
Exactly. It's especially effective long term, and harder to break, when those early inculcations are served up with a heapin' helpin' of threats of fiery eternal damnation.
But the government should not keep it from being taught to kids either. Separation of church and state. Remember? Most kids, if not comfortable with it will back away from it, mine did at an early age. I let them make their own choice just like my parents did with me. I realize some parents don't give their kids a choice and that's whats sad. Sometimes it's just as easy to believe we got here from some residue which came off of a shoe of an explorer from another planet. I'm sure you've watched those shows on the Discovery channel.
Quote from: me on August 29, 2012, 01:25:02 AM
But the government should not keep it from being taught to kids either. Separation of church and state. Remember? Most kids, if not comfortable with it will back away from it, mine did at an early age. I let them make their own choice just like my parents did with me. I realize some parents don't give their kids a choice and that's whats sad. Sometimes it's just as easy to believe we got here from some residue which came off of a shoe of an explorer from another planet. I'm sure you've watched those shows on the Discovery channel.
^----- Hypocrisy pure and simple.
You only endorse the separation of church and state when it serves your purpose.
"Don't like abortion? Don't have one."
Y, thinks it is mental child abuse, for parents to raise their kids in a Christian manner. That is about as "wrong' of a comment as I have ever heard.
That is hypocritical....
if you don't like religion, don't have one.
again, liberal arrogance and egotistical thinking....the most self-righteous group of people I have ever come across.
but that is just MY OPINION.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 29, 2012, 08:34:26 AM
^----- Hypocrisy pure and simple.
You only endorse the separation of church and state when it serves your purpose.
"Don't like abortion? Don't have one."
They cannot dictate what religion you can be or stop you from practicing religion and religion cannot tell you who to vote for or which party you have to belong to. So where am I being hypocritical? A non denominational printing on money, Christmas decorations, and saying Merry Christmas is not commingling church and state. Telling a school they have to honor a Muslim's prayer time but not allowing a teacher to wear a cross necklace is. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the only place religion is taught is in private religious schools and to try to shut them down would be wrong. Now as far as saying the pledge at the start of the day that is a good thing and has nothing to do with religion it is simply pride in country. And saying the word God is not a thing to be ashamed of it is our word for Allah or what ever another country calls him. That is also non denominational. Saying a prayer before congressional meetings, saying prayers at sporting events, graduations, or anything else is also non denominational and if people don't like it they should not stop others from doing so but instead stand there silently until it's over, that's what I do because I respect other rights to pray if they wish.
I am now going to get off the soap box and let the mud slinging begin once again 'cause I know it's coming.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 29, 2012, 09:28:34 AM
Y, thinks it is mental child abuse, for parents to raise their kids in a Christian manner. That is about as "wrong' of a comment as I have ever heard.
That is hypocritical....
if you don't like religion, don't have one.
again, liberal arrogance and egotistical thinking....the most self-righteous group of people I have ever come across.
but that is just MY OPINION.
And I'll second that.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 29, 2012, 09:28:34 AM
Y, thinks it is mental child abuse, for parents to raise their kids in a Christian manner. That is about as "wrong' of a comment as I have ever heard.
That is hypocritical....
if you don't like religion, don't have one.
again, liberal arrogance and egotistical thinking....the most self-righteous group of people I have ever come across.
but that is just MY OPINION.
And if the parents think incest is ok and want to teach that to their children?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 29, 2012, 09:28:34 AM
Y, thinks it is mental child abuse, for parents to raise their kids in a Christian manner. That is about as "wrong' of a comment as I have ever heard.
That is hypocritical....
if you don't like religion, don't have one.
but that is just MY OPINION.
"If you don't like religion, don't have one." I agree!
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.
If you don't want to use birth control, don't buy it.
If you're a woman and you don't want equal pay, don't take it.
If you're a woman and don't want birth control pills on your health insurance. Don't ask for it.
If you want Mitt Romney tax records, ask for them.
If you want the Christians to get there nose out of a woman Virgina, tell them to go to hell.
That's my opinion and this also my opinion --------> :zoners:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 29, 2012, 10:09:41 AM
And if the parents think incest is ok and want to teach that to their children?
who said that was okay?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 29, 2012, 11:19:52 AM
who said that was okay?
What do you expect from us. You support Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell and John Bohner 100% and the Republican Platform a 100%. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on August 29, 2012, 11:33:55 AM
What do you expect from us. You support Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell and John Bohner 100% and the Republican Platform a 100%. :yes: :biggrin:
YES!! YES I do!!! and that makes me happy and excited!!!!! It REALLY IS a wonderfull DAY!!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 29, 2012, 09:28:34 AM
Y, thinks it is mental child abuse, for parents to raise their kids in a Christian manner. That is about as "wrong' of a comment as I have ever heard.
That's not quite what he said at all. Religious indoctrination of children (a.k.a. dumbing them down) is really no different than continuing to insist that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy all exist, even after the child starts questioning those stories and knows better.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 29, 2012, 11:19:52 AM
who said that was okay?
No one but the bible contains several stories of incestuous relationships.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 29, 2012, 12:13:59 PM
No one but the bible contains several stories of incestuous relationships.
But did it say it was acceptable or wrong?
Quote from: me on August 29, 2012, 03:03:26 PM
But did it say it was acceptable or wrong?
Don't know, there was no police investigation. :rolleyes:
Here's an interesting problem I love to see everyone weigh in on:
http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/index.php?topic=18403.msg449450#new
I guess it depends on where in the body you think the soul or spirit reside.
CNN) - Democrats voted to update their party's platform Wednesday evening at their convention to include a reference to Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, as well as the insertion of the word "God," neither of which was included in their platform this year but was in previous platforms.
The change, proposed by Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland immediately after the convention was gaveled into order on Wednesday, required a two-thirds voice vote, but was declared as adopted after three voice votes which brought delegates to their feet, shouting their yeas and nays. Democratic sources told CNN prior to the vote that it was to take place by acclamation.
"I am here to attest and affirm that our faith and belief in God is central to the American story and informs the values we've expressed in our party's platform,"Strickland, who chaired the party's platform committee, read. "In addition, President Obama recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and our party's platform should as well."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/05/just-in-democrats-to-update-platform-with-jerusalem-reference/?hpt=hp_t1
:no:
Once again, we have to invoke the Sky Daddy to pander to the ignorant. :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on September 05, 2012, 06:11:27 PM
CNN) - Democrats voted to update their party's platform Wednesday evening at their convention to include a reference to Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, as well as the insertion of the word "God," neither of which was included in their platform this year but was in previous platforms.
The change, proposed by Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland immediately after the convention was gaveled into order on Wednesday, required a two-thirds voice vote, but was declared as adopted after three voice votes which brought delegates to their feet, shouting their yeas and nays. Democratic sources told CNN prior to the vote that it was to take place by acclamation.
"I am here to attest and affirm that our faith and belief in God is central to the American story and informs the values we've expressed in our party's platform,"Strickland, who chaired the party's platform committee, read. "In addition, President Obama recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and our party's platform should as well."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/05/just-in-democrats-to-update-platform-with-jerusalem-reference/?hpt=hp_t1
:no:
Once again, we have to invoke the Sky Daddy to pander to the ignorant. :mad:
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
It was clearly more like 50/50...but, that seems like the norm for the dems, just do what you want and screw what the people want. ie, HC Bill.
Why is it you think they wanted to pass this motion so badly? they clearly did not have 2/3rds vote.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 05, 2012, 09:13:41 PM
Why is it you think they wanted to pass this motion so badly?
Because we want you parasites who can afford to to pay for your health care.
Quote from: Exterminator on September 05, 2012, 09:16:24 PM
Because we want you parasites who can afford to to pay for your health care.
I was talking about the motion passed on the DNC floor dufass
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 05, 2012, 09:13:41 PM
Why is it you think they wanted to pass this motion so badly? they clearly did not have 2/3rds vote.
Pandering to religiosity. Pure, flat out, and simple.
Quote from: Locutus on September 05, 2012, 09:37:12 PM
Pandering to religiosity. Pure, flat out, and simple.
Yeah that damn 90% of the Americans.....why pander to them?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 06, 2012, 08:52:32 AM
Yeah that damn 90% of the Americans.....why pander to them?
Where do you get that 90% of the American people are religious. :poop: If that many people were that religious they would have to increase the number of churches over 1000%. 90%? :azz:
Quote from: The Troll on September 06, 2012, 09:04:23 AM
Where do you get that 90% of the American people are religious. :poop: If that many people were that religious they would have to increase the number of churches over 1000%. 90%? :azz:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/americans-continue-believe-god.aspx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html
are you seriously that far removed from reality?
Quote from: The Troll on September 06, 2012, 09:04:23 AM
Where do you get that 90% of the American people are religious. :poop: If that many people were that religious they would have to increase the number of churches over 1000%. 90%? :azz:
Religious people don't always go to church.
Quote from: me on September 06, 2012, 09:14:15 AM
Religious people don't always go to church.
Is that why you don't got to church. :rolleyes: :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 06, 2012, 09:06:57 AM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/americans-continue-believe-god.aspx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html
are you seriously that far removed from reality?
well are you?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 06, 2012, 12:42:31 PM
well are you?
I thought you guys didn't believe in polls or fact checkers. You can tell any poll taker anything. If there is 90% of the people religious why don't all of them act like it and believe in what Jesus says. :confused:
Quote from: The Troll on September 06, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
I thought you guys didn't believe in polls or fact checkers. You can tell any poll taker anything. If there is 90% of the people religious why don't all of them act like it and believe in what Jesus says. :confused:
It doesn't say that 90% are Christians, but 90% believe there IS a God or a Creator.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 06, 2012, 12:54:07 PM
It doesn't say that 90% are Christians, but 90% believe there IS a God or a Creator.
If someone would sit down and talk to them and asked some serious questions, I think I for one could shake some of their beliefs in the Sky Guy and all of the phony smoke and mirror he is. :jc:
But as long as you keep your hand over your mouth and eyes and your fingers in your ears. I guess you think you're happy. :haha: But when you hear the preachers talk, it always how bad you have had it, how sick you are and how poor you are. If you give the preacher a little money, god will bless you and multiply the amount of the money you gave by many times over. :doh: Let us pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: Be sure to put something in the pot $$$$$$$ :stirthepot: :rant: With the Republicans and preachers it always about the money. :007: :blues:
I noticed Mr. Clinton actually said the G word. I wonder why he is soooo respected and can use the G word and it isn't a problem. Maybe they think he is just lying about believing? Sorry, I am just feeling snarky today. :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 06, 2012, 12:54:07 PM
It doesn't say that 90% are Christians, but 90% believe there IS a God or a Creator.
Of course, you see that statistic as something laudable when it's really anything but. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Anne on September 06, 2012, 03:48:21 PM
I noticed Mr. Clinton actually said the G word. I wonder why he is soooo respected and can use the G word and it isn't a problem. Maybe they think he is just lying about believing? Sorry, I am just feeling snarky today. :)
Yes, Clinton sinned, and lied about the sin in your mind. Clinton has always been a religious man. Raise in that Southern good old time religion. But doesn't god say that you can be forgiven for any sin. Just look at all of the good the man has done all over the world and you're still saying and thinking bad things about him. You Christians can pray to be forgiven buy you sure can not forgive. let us pray Anne. :Pray: :preach: :pope:
You, Anne have hated Clinton because he got a blow job in the White House and then he lied about when asked. If you were a man I could say that you have had a hard on for him years. Right? :wink: :smile:
I think you should get out you bible and read where it says that it is blessed to forgive, for forgiveness will set you free. Right? I think you should ask for forgiveness for saying that you are not a Republican. :yes: :biggrin: I'll bet that your bible is in some drawer with dust on it and it is just like brand new. Like it hasn't ever been opened. Right Anne? :haha: :haha:
Quote from: Anne on September 06, 2012, 03:48:21 PM
I noticed Mr. Clinton actually said the G word. I wonder why he is soooo respected and can use the G word and it isn't a problem. Maybe they think he is just lying about believing? Sorry, I am just feeling snarky today. :)
The bottom line is that none of them bother to insert god into any political conversation unless it suits their political purposes, including the Republicans. Even the religious right, with its baffling support of Republicans en masse, can't seem to figure out that they're being led around by the nose. These people vote against their own self interest solely out of a belief in the Sky Daddy and all he represents. But then again, I shouldn't be surprised. Anyone who ascribes to anything that defies logic, such as a belief in any god, can't be expected to think rationally when it comes to the ballot box.
Interesting that you used the term 'G word' twice, instead of just saying god. Are you scared you might offend him by calling his name in vain? Just curious.
Nope, I said 'G word ' to avoid hurting anyone's sensibilities on here. Seriously though, why is it such a deal when anyone other than a democrat says 'God Bless America'? If everyone who believes in God, a Supreme Being, or whatever you want to call it so stupid, why isn't Mr. Clinton or President Obama, or Nancy Pelosi included in that?
Quote from: Anne on September 06, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
Nope, I said 'G word ' to avoid hurting anyone's sensibilities on here.
Oh you're still way down on the "offending the sensibilities list" around here. I'm quite sure I'm way ahead of you, as are a couple of others. :biggrin:
Quote from: Anne on September 06, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
Seriously though, why is it such a deal when anyone other than a democrat says 'God Bless America'? If everyone who believes in God, a Supreme Being, or whatever you want to call it so stupid, why isn't Mr. Clinton or President Obama, or Nancy Pelosi included in that?
I don't recall ever making any issue of anyone ever saying "God Bless America" or anything else along those lines. I'm just saying that the fact that politicians seems to feel the need to pander to the lowest common denominator in order to get elected is a shame. Sadly, there are a lot of them, and sadly, they also vote.
Well, they want all the votes they can get, no matter where they come from. :)
Quote from: Anne on September 06, 2012, 11:41:55 PM
Well, they want all the votes they can get, no matter where they come from. :)
Yes Anne, they say God Bless America just to keep you phony Christians off their ass. Remember how you Republicans cried foul :cry: :cry about the Democrats were wearing the flags of the lapels of their suits. It is all phony baloney. We don't want you to have something to bitch about. :cry: :cry:
You don't have to have a flag on you lapel to be an American. :jc:
Some asshat thought it would be a good idea to pepper the restroom on the main floor of our office building with his prosthelytizing handouts so I graciously sent him an email thanking him and explaining that my stall was out of toilet paper and it was good to have his face to wipe my ass on. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on September 13, 2012, 01:02:49 PM
Some asshat thought it would be a good idea to pepper the restroom on the main floor of our office building with his proselytizing handouts so I graciously sent him an email thanking him and explaining that my stall was out of toilet paper and it was good to have his face to wipe my ass on. :icon_twisted:
You could have told him, the next time you print this prosthelyizing bull shit, please print it on toilet paper. :yes: :biggrin: Be GREEN! :treehug:
Quote from: Exterminator on September 13, 2012, 01:02:49 PM
Some asshat thought it would be a good idea to pepper the restroom on the main floor of our office building with his prosthelytizing handouts so I graciously sent him an email thanking him and explaining that my stall was out of toilet paper and it was good to have his face to wipe my ass on. :icon_twisted:
LMAO!!
CNN) – The Vatican on Friday appeared to push back on a recently publicized piece of papyrus that appears to show an early Christian referring to Jesus' wife, with its newspaper calling the fragment "a fake."
"Substantial reasons would lead us to conclude that the papyrus is actually a clumsy counterfeit," the Vatican's newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, said in a Friday editorial by the newspaper's editor.. . .
Now there's a friggin surprise! :rolleyes:
:big grin:
The Catholic church has a history of getting things dead wrong. Just as Galileo. He knows. ;D
Quote from: Palehorse on September 29, 2012, 06:27:24 PM
CNN) – The Vatican on Friday appeared to push back on a recently publicized piece of papyrus that appears to show an early Christian referring to Jesus' wife, with its newspaper calling the fragment "a fake."
"Substantial reasons would lead us to conclude that the papyrus is actually a clumsy counterfeit," the Vatican's newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, said in a Friday editorial by the newspaper's editor.. . .
Now there's a friggin surprise! :rolleyes:
Well, you wouldn't want them to admit that the Pope :pope: is wrong on anything. :doh: They were wrong when they said the earth was the center of our universe. They were wrong on the Crusades. They were wrong on the Inquisition. They were wrong when that made their priest celibate. The church was wrong when the burnt a 19 year of girl Joan of Arch. The whole history of the Catholic Church has been murder, deceit and the mistreatment of young children and their members. :doh:
Why on earth would they want Jesus Christ a normal man, a family man. But it's all fiction a of part of the smoke and mirrors of the Catholic Church and all about power over the Sheeple. The more things change the more things stay the same. Dumbass people. :yes: Let us pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: What a joke. :yes: :rant:
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. (Seneca the Younger)
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." (Galileo Galilei)
Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly. ... To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. (Isaac Asimov)
Quote from: Palehorse on September 30, 2012, 08:00:41 PM
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." (Galileo Galilei)
That was in my signature line once upon a time. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on September 30, 2012, 08:07:23 PM
That was in my signature line once upon a time. ;D
When you see the Muslims riot over a movie, a burned Koran, a cartoon. You can under stand how stupid these people are. But when you think about it the people of the bible were less educated and knew less then the Muslims of today. And the crazy religious Christians believe that the bible was the written word of god. How stupid can you be. :yes:
But when you hear that a Christian has a miracles they won't tell you what happen, it was just between them and god. :rolleyes: Was it a religious experience or just a bad meal. :lol:
Everybody has heard of 'Our Lady of Lourdes' where a young girl saw the Virgin Mary in 1858. Millions people have traveled in the last 158 years, drinking and bathing in the holy waters of the Lady of the Lourdes springs wishing and praying for a cure. :rolleyes:
In that 154 years the Catholic Church has recognized only 67 cures. With all of the people who has been there hoping for a cure was wasting their time and money. They could have more luck at Las Vegas and had more fun. :trustme: :biggrin:
What would Jesus think of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan and the way they want to take care of the poor, old and sick. :confused:
U.S. Rep. Paul Broun's view that the theories of evolution and the big bang are "lies straight from the pit of Hell" is getting more exposure than he might have expected, thanks to a video that was made at a church-sponsored banquet in Georgia and distributed by a progressive political watchdog group.
The Georgia Republican is already well-known as an outspoken conservative Christian, due in part to his unsuccessful campaign to have 2010 declared "the Year of the Bible." But the latest comments have taken on an extra dab of controversy because Broun, a medical doctor, calls himself a scientist in the video and chairs the House Science Committee's panel on investigations and oversight.
The video clip, distributed by the Bridge Project, was taken from a longer version recorded on Sept. 27 during the 2012 Sportsman's Banquet at Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Ga. Here's a transcript of the Bridge Project's snippet:
"God's word is true. I've come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the big bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell. And it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior. You see, there are a lot of scientific data that I've found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth. I don't believe that the earth's but about 9,000 years old. I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That's what the Bible says.
"And what I've come to learn is that it's the manufacturer's handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually, how to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that's the reason as your congressman I hold the Holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I'll continue to do that."
Broun's comments were greeted with applause, and they probably reflect how a lot of his constituents feel about the same issues. He's assured of re-election in any case, due to the fact that he has no Democratic Party challenger in next month's election.
http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/05/14203607-video-shows-scientist-in-congress-saying-evolution-is-from-pit-of-hell?lite
^^ How dangerous is it that we have this mental midget helping to set public policy by being in the Congress on the United States. It's even more egregious that he chairs the House Science Committee's panel on investigations and oversight. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on October 06, 2012, 12:18:13 PM
^^ How dangerous is it that we have this mental midget helping to set public policy by being in the Congress on the United States. It's even more egregious that he chairs the House Science Committee's panel on investigations and oversight. :mad: :mad: :mad:
After watching this moron, they need to hang him on the wall with the rest of the dead deer. These are the 33% of the voters who want to get in control of this great country. This is one reason that the Constitution was created that there was to be a separation between religion and the government. :wacko:
When you look and listen to him, he and the others of the 33% are the Taliban of the United States of America. Let us pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: by the people who believe in this phony smoke and mirrors religion that they never get in control. :smash:
He was right in front of us! :icon_twisted:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/george-harrisoin-resized.jpg)
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 30, 2012, 01:30:29 PM
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
So saith the lord. Huh? So saith the lord, It is better to place your seeds in a belly of a whore than cast them on the ground. In other words, don't jack off dumb ass. Henry hair will grow in the palm of your hand. :haha: :haha: :preach: :pope: Mom, get the NAIR out Henry got hair on his palm again. :rotfl:
There is no god but Allah! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on October 30, 2012, 03:00:01 PM
There is no god but Allah! :icon_twisted:
as printed on Obama's wedding ring..... :icon_twisted:
hey, just jokin before you get all riled up!! ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 30, 2012, 03:20:33 PM
hey, just jokin before you get all riled up!! ;D
Good thing you added that before I tossed you into the TUZ lie tracker! :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on October 30, 2012, 03:48:00 PM
Good thing you added that before I tossed you into the TUZ lie tracker! :razz:
Hell, I would tossed me up to the TUZ lie tracker on that one! :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 30, 2012, 03:20:33 PM
as printed on Obama's wedding ring..... :icon_twisted:
hey, just jokin before you get all riled up!! ;D
With all of your lies and insults about Obama, Just why would you say that about our president. Trump and Andrew Brightbart might say something like this garbage statement. :rant:
Henry are you trying to take over the job that Brightbart left open. :confused: I think you are quite capeable of being just like Andrew Brightbart. :salute: :toothless:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 30, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
Hell, I would tossed me up to the TUZ lie tracker on that one! :razz:
That statement is an outright lie that needs to be put there!
Quote from: Palehorse on November 01, 2012, 12:28:44 AM
That statement is an outright lie that needs to be put there!
If yer gonna start tossin' jokes up to the lie tracker HH and I had better get busy tossin' some things too. :razz:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 01, 2012, 12:28:44 AM
That statement is an outright lie that needs to be put there!
Not sure WHAT is going on with you, but try to lighten up a tad........I WAS JOKING. If you feel the need to put it in the TUZ lie tracker, please do it.
I liked to think we can have a little fun on here once in a while........and NOT make things personal.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 01, 2012, 07:57:29 AM
Not sure WHAT is going on with you, but try to lighten up a tad........
When you do I will. . .
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes::yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Not replying to anyone in particular -- just thought of this thread while looking up something in a cosmology text (The Whole Shebang, by Timothy Ferris):
Regarding the existence (or not) of God:
"There remains one further argument, in which the participatory anthropic principle is employed to establish God's existence by way of the riddle of quantum observership. As we've seen, the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics treats as real only observed phenomena, raising the riddle of how the early universe could have evolved in the absence of observers. The riddle may be "solved" by invoking God as the supreme observer, who by scrutinizing all particles converts their quantum potentials into actual states. The same thesis has long been used by believers to resolve one of the oldest (and most tiresome) ontological questions -- the one about whether trees exist when nobody observes them, or make a sound when they fall and there's nobody around to hear it. This position is summarized in a hoary bit of doggerel:
There once was a man who said "God
Must think it exceedingly odd
If he finds that this tree
Continues to be
When there is no one about in the quad."
"Dear sir, your astonishment's odd
I am always about in the quad
And that's why the tree
will contine to be
Since observed by,
Yours faithfully, God."
:confused: :ne1: :science:
:read:
Washington (CNN) – Televangelist Pat Robertson challenged the idea that Earth is 6,000 years old this week, saying the man who many credit with conceiving the idea, former Archbishop of Ireland James Ussher, "wasn't inspired by the Lord when he said that it all took 6,000 years."
The statement was in response to a question Robertson fielded Tuesday from a viewer on his Christian Broadcasting Network show "The 700 Club." In a submitted question, the viewer wrote that one of her biggest fears was that her children and husband would not go to heaven "because they question why the Bible could not explain the existence of dinosaurs."
"You go back in time, you've got radiocarbon dating. You got all these things, and you've got the carcasses of dinosaurs frozen in time out in the Dakotas," Robertson said. "They're out there. So, there was a time when these giant reptiles were on the Earth, and it was before the time of the Bible. So, don't try and cover it up and make like everything was 6,000 years. That's not the Bible."
Before answering the question, Robertson acknowledged the statement was controversial by saying, "I know that people will probably try to lynch me when I say this."
"If you fight science, you are going to lose your children, and I believe in telling them the way it was," Robertson concluded.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/29/pat-robertson-challenges-creationism/
:rotfl: :rotfl:
That last statement is particularly rich coming from him. :biggrin:
Good thing ole' Pat Robertson is on board for the whole dinosaur thing. :biggrin: Scientists have discovered the oldest dinosaur yet just recently. The remains of this dinosaur are 10 to 15 million years older than any dinosaur fossils discovered thus far.
Scientists Discover the Oldest Dinosaur Yet (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/07/scientists-discover-the-oldest-dinosaur-yet/)
Here's a guy for you people up there in Indiana to target for the defeat the next time he comes up for re-election.
An Indiana Senate Education Committee chairman has said that he will not be pushing to introduce creationism in public schools, but is changing his strategy by writing up a proposal to allow students to ask more questions of their teachers on various subjects – including evolution.
"I would refer to it as truth in education, so students could question what teachers are teaching them and try to make sure it's true what they're teaching," Republican Sen. Dennis Kruse said on Tuesday, as reported by The Republic.
During the 2012 campaign season, he proposed that teachers be allowed to teach creationism, a Bible-based theory that God literally created the earth. The bill was not successful, as House Speaker Brian Bosma rejected it, but Kruse is now writing a draft from the state's legislative services agency that would at least allow evolution to be questioned.
Fox News Radio shared that The Discovery Institute, a public policy thinktank that advocates for teaching creationism, is helping Kruse write the new bill.
The Indiana Senate in February initially passed Kruse's creationist bill, which allows "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life, including creation science" before Bosma warned that it could result in a costly lawsuit if it was approved.
The U.S. is one of the only western countries where a large section of the population still believes in creationism – 2012 Gallup Poll found that 46 percent of Americans believes that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Evolution, however, puts the earth's age closer to 4.5 billion years, and says that humans and other species evolved over millions of years.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/ind-senator-pushes-bill-to-challenge-evolution-in-schools-86141/
(http://hiddenlighthouse.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/quetzalcoatl.jpg)
:mad:
;D
Found this bit of lunacy relating to the Sandy Hook situation in an online newspaper comment.
Quote
Welcome to the new normal. The Bible says elections have consequences and boy are we seeing those NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES FOR VOTING AGAINST GOD. The people voted their will and not God's will and now we are no longer under God's protection. AS everyone has noticed, these things are happening not just everyday, but multiple times a day. Y'all should have voted for God's son Mitt Romney.
:rolleyes:
The mass stupidity in this country is simply unbelievable.
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2012, 09:46:36 PM
The mass stupidity in this country is simply unbelievable.
Yes Sir, about 47% of the American citizens are Bat Shit Crazy. :choo: :choo: :chick: :choo: :choo: All and I do mean all -----> :zoners:
;D
Can you believe that shit? "God's son Mitt Romney"
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2012, 11:31:32 PM
;D
Can you believe that shit? "God's son Mitt Romney"
:rolleyes:
What liberal site or 'talking heads' did you get that crap from? Huffinington Post?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2012, 08:48:54 AM
What liberal site or 'talking heads' did you get that crap from? Huffinington Post?
Try reading before typing. I stated where it came from right here:
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2012, 09:46:10 PM
Found this bit of lunacy relating to the Sandy Hook situation in an online newspaper comment.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 19, 2012, 11:08:43 AM
Try reading before typing. I stated where it came from right here:
I apologize, I saw that AFTER I posted and it was too late to modify.....I haven't had any coffee yet this morning, got a little over anxious.....
I was pretty happy with my response, then...............BAM! whoops!
;D
btw, that dipsh!t that posted that ignorant statement does not nearly represent the average Christian folk that is amongst us.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2012, 11:23:27 AM
btw, that dipsh!t that posted that ignorant statement does not nearly represent the average Christian folk that is amongst us.
That's your customary response, but clearly there are more of those kind of people out there than you think there are. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 19, 2012, 11:34:46 AM
That's your customary response, but clearly there are more of those kind of people out there than you think there are. :yes:
I would say an extremely small percentage, but like anything else, they are the one's that get the media's attention and make the news.
Seriously, are you aware of how many Christians there are? Most of them are just your average Joe, that works, raises a family, a goes to church.....Keeps to themselves, mouth shut.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
I would say an extremely small percentage, but like anything else, they are the one's that get the media's attention and make the news.
Seriously, are you aware of how many Christians there are? Most of them are just your average Joe, that works, raises a family, a goes to church.....Keeps to themselves, mouth shut.
And the loudmouths have an opinion and Internet access. ;D
Quote from: Locutus on December 19, 2012, 11:52:22 AM
And the loudmouths have an opinion and Internet access. ;D
and THAT is America! Land of the free! (and idiots) :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
I would say an extremely small percentage, but like anything else, they are the one's that get the media's attention and make the news.
Seriously, are you aware of how many Christians there are? Most of them are just your average Joe, that works, raises a family, a goes to church.....Keeps to themselves, mouth shut.
Out of the entire population of the earth only 33% of them claim to be Christian. :rolleyes: But how many of them are lying about them really practicing the teachings of Jesus. :haha: Not many I would say. Let's pray for those phony Christians. :pray: :preach: :pope: and lease of all the Holy Ghost. :ghost: Oh brother, give me a break. :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on December 19, 2012, 01:06:22 PM
Out of the entire population of the earth only 33% of them claim to be Christian. :rolleyes: But how many of them are lying about them really practicing the teachings of Jesus. :haha: Not many I would say. Let's pray for those phony Christians. :pray: :preach: :pope: and lease of all the Holy Ghost. :ghost: Oh brother, give me a break. :haha:
What is your point?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2012, 01:13:34 PM
What is your point?
What my point? For one thing Christians are not that big. The number of Christians are going down and in not too many years they will be thought of as the Greeks with their gods and the Egyptians with their sun god. :yes: :yes:
People are getting smarter and are catching on the the smoke, mirrors and prayers just don't get it anymore. :yes: That's my point. :yes: Anyone who swallow all of the god and religious stuff can't be too smart and sure can't see the real truth. :yes: :biggrin:
You want to tell us now, about your miracle and your talk with god. :ghost: :confused:
Looks to me like that's just a long way of saying, "God Sucks!" :wink: :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on December 19, 2012, 11:34:46 AM
That's your customary response...
I know; right? He's always speaking for the vast majority of
< insert random demographic here > and is typically wrong.
On the bright side, geebuz apparently likes bacon!
(http://keithgrossman.com/pic51.jpg)
Quote from: The Troll on December 19, 2012, 01:45:35 PM
What my point? For one thing Christians are not that big. The number of Christians are going down and in not too many years they will be thought of as the Greeks with their gods and the Egyptians with their sun god. :yes: :yes:
People are getting smarter and are catching on the the smoke, mirrors and prayers just don't get it anymore. :yes: That's my point. :yes: Anyone who swallow all of the god and religious stuff can't be too smart and sure can't see the real truth. :yes: :biggrin:
You want to tell us now, about your miracle and your talk with god. :ghost: :confused:
Well according to Pew, only 1.6% are atheist, 16% are unafilliated with any religion, but 78% are Christian and 84% believe in religion.
I probably won't waste any time sharing exactly how God has fulfilled my life....by thanks for asking. :yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on December 19, 2012, 01:51:48 PM
I know; right? He's always speaking for the vast majority of < insert random demographic here > and is typically wrong.
Well, I think MOST people would agree with me..... :yes: :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 19, 2012, 01:58:55 PM
Well, I think wish MOST people would agree with me..... :yes: :razz:
FTFY!
I don't think it needed fixin.... :no: as a mater of fact, I think the majority of people side with me, becau..... never mind. :no:
Quote from: Exterminator on December 19, 2012, 01:51:48 PM
< insert random demographic here >
< Christians >
< Conservatives >
< Republicans >
< Americans >
< White Men >
;D
Yeah, those people! :biggrin:
It's
(http://hiddenlighthouse.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/quetzalcoatl.jpg)
Eve!
I'm thinking large amounts of alcohol would be an appropriate festive or celebratory activity for such an occasion.... :yes:
I heard a local church is offering sequential vodka enemas at midnight tonight! :icon_twisted:
WHERE????
(CNN) -- The horrific events in Newtown are unfathomable. Asking "why?" is natural at times like this, but intuitively it is clear that there cannot be any good reason for what was truly a senseless massacre.
It is impossible not to grieve with the families in Newtown, Connecticut, who have experienced such tremendous loss, just as it is impossible to not hope for anything that can provide some comfort.
All of us who have had children in primary school at one time or another stopped in our tracks when we heard the news, just as President Barack Obama did, as we tried to imagine how we would have coped had something so horrendous happened in our own child's school.
But why must the nation grieve with God? After Newtown, a memorial service was held in which 10 clergy and Obama offered Hebrew, Christian and Muslim prayers, with the president stating: " 'Let the little children come to me,' Jesus said, 'and do not hinder them. For such belongs to the kingdom of Heaven.' God has called them all home. For those of us who remain, let us find the strength to carry on."
Why must it be a natural expectation that any such national tragedy will be accompanied by prayers, including from the president, to at least one version of the very God, who apparently in his infinite wisdom, decided to call 20 children between the age of 6 and 7 home by having them slaughtered by a deranged gunman in a school that one hopes should have been a place or nourishment, warmth and growth?
We are told the Lord works in mysterious ways but, for many people, to suggest there might be an intelligent deity who could rationally act in such a fashion and that that deity is worth praying to and thanking for "calling them home" seems beyond the pale.
Let me be clear that there may be many grieving families in Newtown and around the country who have turned to their faith for solace in this difficult time. No caring person would begrudge them this right to ease their pain. But the question that needs to be asked is why, as a nation, do we have to institutionalize the notion that religion must play a central role at such times, with the president as the clergyman-in-chief?
Since this tragedy, cable TV networks have been flooded with calls to faith and have turned to numerous clergy as if, as a matter of principle, they have something special or caring to offer. Often what they provide is quite the opposite.
On CNN the other day, Bishop Robert Wright of the Episcopal Diocese of Atlanta suggested that people who don't have faith in his deity can only go so far in our emotional capacities to love and forgive, that without faith "we lack the strength to take us the full way of ourselves, the best of ourselves."
Besides being offensive, this is nonsense. We don't need faith to empathize with the grieving in Newtown. We can feel real connections, whether we are parents, or neighbors of families, or simply caring men and women. And we can want to help simply because of our common humanity.
Why does television automatically turn to clergy for advice on how to meet our needs, spiritual or otherwise?
Later on television, I saw media Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who used to claim to be the personal spiritual guide of Michael Jackson, until that presumably became less sellable. I also once had the displeasure of debating him on the subject of evolution, which he essentially rejects, offering admonition to those who, with very good reason, may question a God who could willingly allow the slaughter of children. I would argue that times like these are very good times to question your faith in deities.
It gets worse. Television host and former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee suggested that because we are keeping God out of schools, the Deity chose not to stop the slaughter of these young innocents. (Or, to put it more bluntly, "If you don't invite me to the party, I will kill your kids!") If this were remotely believable, who would want to pray to such a fickle and pompous deity?
I feel particularly sad for the grieving parents who might not be Christian, Jewish or Muslim. Besides learning that they are somehow lacking in empathy or goodness or the ability to heal, little guidance is being provided to those who among them have decided that they cannot believe in a sometimes violent and irascible God or who in fact have found their faith in God in question as a result of this tragedy. For these people, as for me, the thought that God has "called their children home" is simply offensive.
Why can't we as a nation focus on consoling the families in their grief by focusing on the most important realities, the lives of the children they have lost, celebrating their memory and sharing our common love of family, of children, and of our common humanity and perhaps most importantly arguing that this tragedy may one day not be completely in vain: That a shocked nation might rationally decide that assault weapons are meant to kill many people in a short time, not to hunt for deer or defend one's home.
If instead of automatically assuming that prayers to a deity callous enough to allow this sickness, or worse, to encourage it out of divine retribution, are what families in grief need from their president and from the media, that we focused on rational grief counseling and community support, including better mental health care combined with sensible gun control, we as a society might ultimately act more effectively to stop this madness.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/26/opinion/krauss-grief-faith/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Paraphrase of the above:
God sucks. :wink:
This is not about God; it's about religion:
It's from the On Faith page of the paper version of the Saturday Washington Post.
The rise of a new religious America
Charles C. Haynes is director of the Religious Freedom Education Project at the Newseum.
The first Hindu elected to the House of Representatives, Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, will take the oath of office in a few weeks, and she has chosen to place her hand on the Bhagavad-Gita, a sacred text of her tradition.
Meanwhile, the woman she replaces in congress, Mazie Hirono, will be sworn in as the first Buddhist elected to the U.S.Senate.
Welcome to the new religious America.
Religious diversity, of course, has long been part of the American landscape. But in 2012, religious minorities became newly visible and vocal in a society historically dominated by the symbols, values and leaders of the Protestant faith.
Now that Protestants are no longer in the majority -- as reported in a study released by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life in October -- even the term "religious minority" will need fresh definition in our newly minted minority-majority nation.
The elections of Gabbard and Hirono are just two of many recent signals that demographic shifts and changing attitudes are rapidly transforming America's increasingly crowded public square.
Consider, for example, that for the first time in our history, none of the presidential or vice-presidential candidates of either majority party was a white Protestant.
Even more remarkable, not only did the Mormon candidate receive nearly half of the popular vote, but Mitt Romney was also supported by many evangelical voters that polls previously told us would not vote for a Mormon.
Religious affiliation of (or lack of affiliation) is still a factor in public life, but the level of voter acceptance of candidates affiliated with historically unelectable faiths is growing.
When Congress convenes in January, significant numbers of politicians from groups with long histories of discrimination in America -- notably Jews, Catholics and Mormons -- will fill both chambers, many in leadership positions.
And let's not overlook the fact that the current U.S. Supreme Court is made of of six Catholic and three Jewish justices and -- another first -- no Protestants.
I sick and tired of the religious qualifications it takes to be in congress and the Supreme Court. I wish everyone was an atheist., That sure would take god out of the laws they make. it sure would make more sense than it does not. :yes:
Religion has no place in government. Absolutely NONE! :mad:
Despite the best efforts of our founding fathers, the zealots have persisted like an infection.
Whatever someone wants to believe privately is fine with me.
Keep your mouth shut about it publicly unless I ask about it, and I will grant the same favor.
Likewise, keep your legislation to yourself -- it is exactly what the fathers tried to prevent.
They knew full well that this kind of crap would persist if they allowed even the slightest intrusion.
There will NEVER be religious equality for ALL, only the fairly large sized groups that can exert some political pressure.
Two hundred years plus later we have the same obnoxious, evangelical, ear-torturing whrrrr--garrrrrrbbbble
Piffle-dink, I say. Piffle-dink.
Quote from: followsthewolf on January 06, 2013, 03:57:12 PM
Despite the best efforts of our founding fathers, the zealots have persisted like an infection.
Whatever someone wants to believe privately is fine with me.
Keep your mouth shut about it publicly unless I ask about it, and I will grant the same favor.
Likewise, keep your legislation to yourself -- it is exactly what the fathers tried to prevent.
They knew full well that this kind of crap would persist if they allowed even the slightest intrusion.
There will NEVER be religious equality for ALL, only the fairly large sized groups that can exert some political pressure.
Two hundred years plus later we have the same obnoxious, evangelical, ear-torturing whrrrr--garrrrrrbbbble
Piffle-dink, I say. Piffle-dink.
Right on brother Wolf, somebody say Amen and someone please past the plate. Let us pray. :pray: :pope:
Quote from: The Troll on January 06, 2013, 09:12:09 PM
Right on brother Wolf, somebody say Amen and someone please past the plate. Let us pray. :pray: :pope:
If you're passin' the plate, make sure it ends with me so I can take the money and run! :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on January 06, 2013, 09:16:03 PM
If you're passin' the plate, make sure it ends with me so I can take the money and run! :rotfl:
That plate comes round to me it had better have meat and cheese on it dammit. :icon_evil:
(http://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/receiptgrab.png)
^^
Another fine Christian who doesn't seem to know much about the book with which they claim such a familiarity.
"Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;" -- Jeremiah 22:13 (KJV)
A young couple I know told this story about his father, Joe. Joe was a southern boy and a bit of a hell-raiser, but settled down once he married and had two children. Except for his likker. He used to go out to his workshop and loosen up with a drink or two or three, and one evening got so drunk he somehow started a fire that that quickly burned down the shed. He came out of it singed and convinced that God had saved him for a purpose and that purpose was to spread the gospel to others.
So Joe convinced someone he knew to let him use a vacant store, rent free, for his church. He called and wrote everybody he knew, told them his story, and asked them to come to his church the next Sunday morning. His son and daughter-in-law went, and said he preached a fairly decent sermon. After a few more Sundays, Pastor Joe brought up the subject of tithing. After they left church that day, his son turned to his wife and asked her what tithing was. She told him, and he got very quiet. A day or two later, he looked at her and said, "So we'll be paying 10% of our income to my father?
They didn't go back, and apparently nobody else did, so that was the end of Joe's preachin' days.
;D
Quote from: Locutus on January 31, 2013, 04:20:44 PM
(http://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/receiptgrab.png)
You want a lesson in public relations in the social media age? Look at Applebee's response to the above and do the exact opposite. ;D
I think it sucks they have the nerve to ask for an additional tip after they MANDATORY took out 18%. I thought the whole point of a tip was to show your gratitude on the service your waiter/waitress gave you.
I also read where the waitress was fired for posting it publicly. As well she should have been.
Why does god get 10%? I thought all you have to do is believe? The pastor was branded as a cheap asshole. As well as he should have been.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on February 01, 2013, 01:10:56 PM
Why does god get 10%? I thought all you have to do is believe? The pastor was branded as a cheap asshole. As well as he should have been.
I'm not discussing tithing, I'm talking about a company that TAKES 18% tip, without my consent, then asks if I want to leave more. The waitress should NOT have posted it on the web. Also, the pastor said he left $6 on the table.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 01, 2013, 01:20:53 PM
I'm not discussing tithing, I'm talking about a company that TAKES 18% tip, without my consent, then asks if I want to leave more. The waitress should NOT have posted it on the web. Also, the pastor said he left $6 on the table.
You don't have to discuss tithing because its BS where people feel obligated to pay a certain percentage to god. If the pastor didn't believe the service deserved 18% he could have spoken to the manager and had it reduced or removed. Its the company policy, not the server's, but yet she suffered because that pastor has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old. On-the-other-hand tithing is non-negotiable. That said, how exactly does this money get to god? Who suffers if those aren't paid?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on February 01, 2013, 01:49:17 PM
You don't have to discuss tithing because its BS where people feel obligated to pay a certain percentage to god. If the pastor didn't believe the service deserved 18% he could have spoken to the manager and had it reduced or removed. Its the company policy, not the server's, but yet she suffered because that pastor has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old. On-the-other-hand tithing is non-negotiable. That said, how exactly does this money get to god? Who suffers if those aren't paid?
Not sure how to answer you....I think we are miffed on two different notes.
I think, the waitress had NO business posting it on the web. I think that was wrong, even if the customer WAS an asshole. Not a professional thing to do. She represents Applebee's . Now, I don't know if the Pastor was lying or not, but he said he left a $6 tip at the table. He just didn't like the fact Applebees insists on an 18% tip. He made a smart ass remark about God and 10%. Right or wrong, he IS the customer.
Tithing IS negotiatable. That is ALWAYS something that is from the heart NOT from a calculator. The Bible makes suggestions as to how much, and the rewards by doing so....but it doesn't state anybody going to Hell if they don't pay 10%.
With all of that said, I'm no preacher and I'm not preachin...
I live my life, according to HH, with the help of God's word. Nothing more, nothing less.
The pastor was a she...big fat black woman...Alois Bell.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 01, 2013, 03:10:06 PM
The pastor was a she...big fat black woman...Alois Bell.
Yes. You can find her crazy ass on YouTube.
Quote from: Locutus on February 01, 2013, 03:35:51 PM
Yes. You can find her crazy ass on YouTube.
Despite what color she is, or what her weigth is or how crazy she is or even how much of a tight ass she may be. The waitress screwed up and posted it on the internet, and she violated company policy.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 01, 2013, 03:42:37 PM
Despite what color she is, or what her weigth is or how crazy she is or even how much of a tight ass she may be. The waitress screwed up and posted it on the internet, and she violated company policy.
And what if the owner of the FaceBook page of that restaurant in St. Louis did the exact same thing?
Quote from: Locutus on February 01, 2013, 03:47:47 PM
And what if the owner of the FaceBook page of that restaurant in St. Louis did the exact same thing?
I have no clue to what you are getting at. It seems to me, that the waitress got miffed because of the smartass remark that the Pastor left, and did not leave an "extra" tip, so she posted it on the internet to be funny. Well, it is against Applebees policy to do such a thing. It deals with customer privacy. She got fired. I think it sucks that she did, because she probably needs the job.
I also read where the Pastor ASKED for seperate bills for the party of 20, so she could escape the 18% rule that is printed in the menu. So, if this is true, then the Pastor sucks and is being a tight ass.
Had this waitress NOT plastered it on the internet, I would have been on her side 100%.
How often do people leave 28% tips? We usually leave 20%, unless we just get coffee or a soft drink, then we leave about $2 each.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 01, 2013, 04:10:54 PM
I have no clue to what you are getting at. It seems to me, that the waitress got miffed because of the smartass remark that the Pastor left, and did not leave an "extra" tip, so she posted it on the internet to be funny. Well, it is against Applebees policy to do such a thing. It deals with customer privacy. She got fired. I think it sucks that she did, because she probably needs the job.
What I'm getting at (in that particular remark) is that she was fired for doing something that others (most likely managers) have done on the Facebook page of that very store from which she was fired. It's hypocrisy on the part of the franchisee who fired this girl for doing what she did, while allowing others to violate that policy (if it is indeed one) most likely because what was posted was positive. The picture below is proof that it was there, even though it was yanked shorty after this whole imbroglio started.
(http://bit.ly/TjwG6z)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 01, 2013, 04:10:54 PM
I also read where the Pastor ASKED for seperate bills for the party of 20, so she could escape the 18% rule that is printed in the menu. So, if this is true, then the Pastor sucks and is being a tight ass.
Had this waitress NOT plastered it on the internet, I would have been on her side 100%.
This really wasn't started about the waitress, although that's what Applebee's current PR nightmare is about, but rather about the 'pastor' and the very non-Christian manner in which she was behaving. One, by by being a tightwad and asking for separate checks to skirt the automatic gratuity, and two, for leaving a nasty note to the server that her authority as a 'pastor' somehow entitles her to set whatever amount she chooses to tip, and that her authority as a 'pastor' somehow entitles her to act like an absolute jackass to people who are serving her.
Quote from: Anne on February 01, 2013, 07:49:10 PM
How often do people leave 28% tips? We usually leave 20%, unless we just get coffee or a soft drink, then we leave about $2 each.
It wasn't a 28% automatic gratuity; it was 18%.
(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/alois-bell.jpg)
In addition, once she found out her nasty ass behavior had been posted on the Internet, instead of expressing contrition for her behavior, she calls up the restaurant and demands that everyone on that shift, manager included, be fired. In following up with an interview, after she saw her reputation collapsing in shambles, she said that "her momentary lapse in judgement" had brought shame and embarrassment to her ministry.
I say that's complete and total bullshit. She wasn't sorry when she tried to skirt the automatic gratuity; she wasn't sorry when she left the nasty note; she wasn't sorry when she called up and demanded everyone's head on a platter. About the only thing she's sorry about is that she's now been exposed on the Internet for being the absolute bitch that she is, and the pastor and Christian that she clearly is not.
If you want to see some of Applebee's ongoing public relations disaster, here is their Facebook page. They have two official comments on the matter at the top, but check out the pictures of their menu items. People are even trashing them in the comments on the pictures too. They have a big fat mess on their hands. :yes:
https://www.facebook.com/applebees?ref=ts&fref=ts
Quote from: Locutus on February 01, 2013, 09:47:47 PM
If you want to see some of Applebee's ongoing public relations disaster, here is their Facebook page. They have two official comments on the matter at the top, but check out the pictures of their menu items. People are even trashing them in the comments on the pictures too. They have a big fat mess on their hands. :yes:
https://www.facebook.com/applebees?ref=ts&fref=ts
Have you ever notice how the little Tin God Henry always go after the hourly workers. It's always their fault. :rant:
Why don't Applebee's add 18% to the cost to the food and add the extra money to the wages of the work staff. Then the tips the customers can to for the the service they get. :yes:
Now here's a real question, we know how Henry feels about hourly workers, union workers and poor people. What chance in a million would Henry Hawk (cheap ass) give any hourly worker a 28% tip? :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Here's to you cheap ass. :salute: :tiphat:
Quote from: Locutus on February 01, 2013, 08:49:36 PM
It wasn't a 28% automatic gratuity; it was 18%.
I know the 18% was the automatic gratuity, what I was asking is would just paying the 18% be considered being cheap or tight?
Correct; 18% would have been appropriate.
Quote from: Anne on February 02, 2013, 07:20:26 PM
I know the 18% was the automatic gratuity, what I was asking is would just paying the 18% be considered being cheap or tight?
Yes, 18% would have been fine.
The Cardinals have erected the chimney from which will flow the Holy Poopal Smoke. :pope: :pope: :pope: :poop: :poop: :poop:
Am I allowed to say erect and Cardinal in the same sentence or do I have to throw in an alter boy? :icon_twisted: :devil29:
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130309131129-vatican-chimney-story-top.jpg)
Let the humping begin! :rolleyes: :pope: :pope: :pope: :pope: :pope: :pope:
I believe the erection will require three altar boys.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 09, 2013, 07:12:25 PM
Let the humping begin! :rolleyes: :pope: :pope: :pope: :pope: :pope: :pope:
I believe the erection will require three altar boys.
Only three alter boys for 115 cardinals? :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on March 09, 2013, 07:15:44 PM
Only three alter boys for 115 cardinals? :biggrin:
Some of them are into their colleagues. . . what can I say?
:rotfl:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 09, 2013, 07:17:01 PM
Some of them are into their colleagues. . . what can I say?
Oh, no. You didn't say that.
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 09, 2013, 09:05:41 PM
Oh, no. You didn't say that.
This is an extremely blasphemous thread in case you haven't noticed. :biggrin:
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 09, 2013, 09:05:41 PM
Oh, no. You didn't say that.
Oh yes. . . I did. . . :devil29: :devil29: :devil29: :devil29: :sneaky:
Conclave. . . just another word for orgy!
So how about we review just how many human lives have been sacrificed in the name of Xtianity and its great sky daddy through the years.
• 1,000,000 perished during the early Arian schism.
• 1,000,000 during the Carthaginian struggle.
• 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters in Spain.
• 5,000,000 perished during the eight Crusades.
• 2,000,000 of Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives in opposing the introduction of the blessings of Christianity.
• 1,000,000 were destroyed in the Holy Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, and Huguenots.
• 30,000,000 Mexicans and Peruvians were slaughtered before they could be convinced of the beauty of the Christian creed.
• 9,000,000 were burned for witchcraft.
• Total, 56,000,000.
- Oh, and let us not forget the 6 million that xtian Hitler sent to the ovens and starvation, etc.
Grand total =62 million. (And counting)
Habemus poopum! :pope: :pope:
Poop Francis I.
:pope: :pope: :pope:
No more gringo poops. Now it's a chili pepper!
Quote from: Palehorse on March 13, 2013, 11:51:04 PM
No more gringo poops. Now it's a chili pepper!
Nothing is going to change! The Catholic Church will stay the same. Why? Because it is run and controlled by a group of old senile "celibate" men who want to molest young boys and control all of the gold, silver, sheep, oxes, donkeys men and women as they have all controlled through out the world's history.
As god told Joshua when he destroyed Jericho. Spare no living thing. Kill all men, women, children, donkeys, oxen, sheep. Any wealth found, gold, silver, copper given to the sacred treasury ( the church ). Nothing has changed and nothing will change with the Catholic or any other church. Let us pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: :rant:
A California creationist believes the biblical book of Genesis is a literal account of the universe's origins -- and he's putting his money where his mouth is.
Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo is offering $10,000 to anyone who can successfully disprove a literal interpretation, using science, in front of a judge. He's calling the challenge the Literal Genesis Trial, the Guardian reports. Anyone who wants to take him up on the offer must also pony up his or her own $10,000; winner takes all.
A dispute resolution model known as a mini-trial would be used to hear the arguments from Mastropaolo and his opponent. A bailiff and court reporter will attend, in addition to a judge approved by both sides. Per the rules, all "evidence must be scientific, that is, objective, valid, reliable, and calibrated."
Mastropaolo, who has a PhD in kinesiology and has taught both biomechanics and physiology, says his goal is to heighten the quality of creation science vs. evolution debate. But first he has to find a willing opponent:
"[Evolutionists] are not stupid people, they are bright, but they are bright enough to know there is no scientific evidence they can give in a mini-trial," he says.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/26/newser-creationist-prove-me-wrong/2020847/
^^
Another idiot who thinks the Sky Daddy farted out the Universe a few thousand years ago even though his own appendix, male nipples, wisdom teeth, and tonsils all disagree with him. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on March 26, 2013, 11:36:38 AM
^^
Another idiot who thinks the Sky Daddy farted out the Universe a few thousand years ago even though his own appendix, male nipples, wisdom teeth, and tonsils all disagree with him. :rolleyes:
Lay out your $G's and double your profits... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 26, 2013, 11:38:42 AM
Lay out your $G's and double your profits... :yes:
It certainly wouldn't be difficult to do. There's a mountain of scientific evidence that he's wrong without even getting into Big Bang cosmology. You don't even have to leave the confines of the planet to find it.
Although the article doesn't specifically state such, I would bet this is some sort of publicity stunt to help promote some other interest(s) he's involved in.
Quote from: Locutus on March 26, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
A California creationist believes the biblical book of Genesis is a literal account of the universe's origins -- and he's putting his money where his mouth is.
Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo is offering $10,000 to anyone who can successfully disprove a literal interpretation, using science, in front of a judge. He's calling the challenge the Literal Genesis Trial, the Guardian reports. Anyone who wants to take him up on the offer must also pony up his or her own $10,000; winner takes all.
A dispute resolution model known as a mini-trial would be used to hear the arguments from Mastropaolo and his opponent. A bailiff and court reporter will attend, in addition to a judge approved by both sides. Per the rules, all "evidence must be scientific, that is, objective, valid, reliable, and calibrated."
Mastropaolo, who has a PhD in kinesiology and has taught both biomechanics and physiology, says his goal is to heighten the quality of creation science vs. evolution debate. But first he has to find a willing opponent:
"[Evolutionists] are not stupid people, they are bright, but they are bright enough to know there is no scientific evidence they can give in a mini-trial," he says.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/26/newser-creationist-prove-me-wrong/2020847/
He may find a willing opponent when they quit laughing.
Yep! Should look something like a repeat of this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Scopes_trial.jpg)
If any of you care to know what the opposition is up to, and read a bunch of religious bullshit wrapped in pseudoscience, you can read more about Dr. (and I use that term loosely) Mastropaolo here:
http://www.josephmastropaolo.com/
Quote from: Locutus on March 26, 2013, 11:14:22 PM
If any of you care to know what the opposition is up to, and read a bunch of religious bullshit wrapped in pseudoscience, you can read more about Dr. (and I use that term loosely) Mastropaolo here:
http://www.josephmastropaolo.com/
Wish I'd have seen that on Monday, when I had time to waste. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on March 28, 2013, 12:06:44 PM
Wish I'd have seen that on Monday, when I had time to waste. . .
It really isn't worth it. It's all tripe. :yes:
This has to be one of the most stupid things I have ever seen on Facebook.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564457_365286170256946_1373548232_n.jpg)
:biggrin:
Can you really imagine what it would be like to live in this modern time the 21TH Century if the laws were the same as god had them in the Old Testament. Let us pray :haha:
He would sure have a lot of people and children to SMITE (KILL). :haha: Give us a break, only Sheeple can believe this bull shit :doh:
Quote from: The Troll on May 01, 2013, 04:41:47 PM
Give us a break, only Sheeple can believe this bull shit :doh:
Not only do they believe it, but they vote and attempt to influence public policy based on it. :yes:
Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah hallelujah
Can you believe it. :choo: :choo: :choo: :choo: The Pope :pope: has made a statement that no matter what you believe or NOT BELIEVE (Athiest) we are all going to go to heaven based on how good we are to our fellow man. :yes: :biggrin:
:haha: Can you imagine what these Sheeple think now that they have done without, give up things, gave money to the church. have throwed all of this knee time :pray: time away and money for nothing, worshipping the sky guy. :haha:
What are these Republican going to do without religion to run on. :haha: :haha: :haha:
Just wait until the fundamentalist Xtians hear about that. :yes:
http://christiannymphos.org/2008/05/28/10-ways-to-embrace-the-sexy-wife-god-made-you-to-be/
I mostly find this repulsive. Most of you will understand why and the rest will miss the reason by a landslide. ;D That said, the web address kills me! :rotfl:
If you drop the references to religion, it reminds me of a book popular back in the 50's or 60's about how to have a happy marriage. I thought it was pure trash, but then that is only my opinion.
"ChristianNymphos " - Weren't they the reason the chastity belt was created? :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on May 26, 2013, 09:14:09 PM
"ChristianNymphos " - Weren't they the reason the chastity belt was created? :biggrin:
:biggrin:
It sounds like the name of a punk band ;D
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on May 26, 2013, 09:17:44 PM
:biggrin:
It sounds like the name of a punk band ;D
Yeah, they'd be an offshoot of Iron Maiden . . . :rolleyes: :eek:
(http://www.antoniohernandez.es/Historia/extras/2a%20parte/Fernando%20VII/Medieval%20Torture_files/ironmaiden_05.jpg)
From Facebook:
Perisa ****** ********
How do I choose a tree service? I've had three estimates and they were all different. They were all nice. None of them could say my name! So I have been praying and it was all answered by a song I learned as a child:
Zaccheus was a wee, little man,
And a wee, little man was he.
He climbed up in a sycamore tree,
For the Lord he wanted to see.
And as the Savior came that way,
He looked up in the tree,
Spoken: And he said,"Zaccheus, you come down from there,"
For I'm going to your house today.
For I'm going to your house today.
^^
Really? You need to pray to find a fucking tree service? Let's see. All different prices so here's a clue. Start with the lowest quote, make sure they're insured in case they screw up, and if so, there's your tree service.
Problem fucking solved.
Call me Jeebus. :pope: :pray:
Why do religious people not see how absolutely stupid they sound, and obviously are, by posting bullshit like that?
Maybe she is a follower of the popular TV preacher Joel Osteen. I think of him as a bit smarmy (apologies to anyone I offend), so I was surprised when an old friend, a marine colonel who'd travelled the world over and spent some time at the Pentagon, said casually that he watched him. I told him that really surprised me, and he replied: "He's not a preacher, he's a motivational speaker!"
Quote from: libby on June 16, 2013, 01:30:20 PM
Maybe she is a follower of the popular TV preacher Joel Osteen. I think of him as a bit smarmy (apologies to anyone I offend), so I was surprised when an old friend, a marine colonel who'd travelled the world over and spent some time at the Pentagon, said casually that he watched him. I told him that really surprised me, and he replied: "He's not a preacher, he's a motivational speaker!"
Boy, do I ever agree with you about that.....He is a speaker. I am not a fan of TV evangelists. They all kind of give me the creeps.
I really don't care HOW somebody ELSE decides to pick a contractor, that is up to them. Praying for wisdom, then seeking wisdom, then utilizing widom seems to be the order I use.....but if a song gives her the warm and fuzzies, that is her business.
Speaking of Joel Osteen, this morning his "sermon" was based on epigenetics.
About the subject: "Environmental factors can alter the way our genes are expressed, making even identical twins different." (From a PBS program on the subject with scientist NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON
as narrator.)
Osteen started off sensibly enough by stating that epigenetics means "on top of genes." After that I got lost in his reasoning, which involved religion and principles of mind control to the point that he was using phrases like "you can turn off (traits you don't like), deactivate that bad gene" .... and, (paraphrase) "you get new genes; you have the genes of God in you." :spooked: :spooked:
Quote from: libby on June 23, 2013, 01:38:58 PM
Speaking of Joel Osteen, this morning his "sermon" was based on epigenetics.
About the subject: "Environmental factors can alter the way our genes are expressed, making even identical twins different." (From a PBS program on the subject with scientist NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON
as narrator.)
Osteen started off sensibly enough by stating that epigenetics means "on top of genes." After that I got lost in his reasoning, which involved religion and principles of mind control to the point that he was using phrases like "you can turn off (traits you don't like), deactivate that bad gene" .... and, (paraphrase) "you get new genes; you have the genes of God in you." :spooked: :spooked:
Ok........... :confused: :spooked:
Quote from: libby on June 23, 2013, 01:38:58 PM
Speaking of Joel Osteen, this morning his "sermon" was based on epigenetics.
About the subject: "Environmental factors can alter the way our genes are expressed, making even identical twins different." (From a PBS program on the subject with scientist NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON
as narrator.)
Osteen started off sensibly enough by stating that epigenetics means "on top of genes." After that I got lost in his reasoning, which involved religion and principles of mind control to the point that he was using phrases like "you can turn off (traits you don't like), deactivate that bad gene" .... and, (paraphrase) "you get new genes; you have the genes of God in you." :spooked: :spooked:
Here's the SCIENTIFIC explanation of what Osteen was talking about -- little bit :rolleyes: more complicated:
Epigenetics
Environmental factors can alter the way our genes are expressed, making even identical twins different. Aired July 24, 2007 on PBS
Program Description
Once nurture seemed clearly distinct from nature. Now it appears that our diets and lifestyles can change the expression of our genes. How? By influencing a network of chemical switches within our cells collectively known as the epigenome. This new understanding may lead us to potent new medical therapies. Epigenetic cancer therapy, for one, already seems to be yielding promising results.
PBS air date: July 24, 2007
CHEERFUL NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Did you ever notice that if you get to know two identical twins, they might look alike, but they're always subtly different?
CANTANKEROUS NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yep, whatever.
CHEERFUL NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: As they get older, those differences can get more pronounced. Two people start out the same but their appearance and their health can diverge. For instance, you have more gray hair.
CANTANKEROUS NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: No. No, I don't. Identical twins have the same DNA, exact same genes.
CHEERFUL NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah.
CANTANKEROUS NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: And don't our genes make us who we are?
CHEERFUL NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Well they do, yes, but they're not the whole story. Some researchers have discovered a new bit of biology that can work with our genes or against them.
CANTANKEROUS NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah, you're heavier, and I'm better looking.
CHEERFUL NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah, whatever.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Imagine coming into the world with a person so like yourself, that for a time you don't understand mirrors.
CONCEPCIÓN: As a child, when I looked in the mirror I'd say, "That's my sister." And my mother would say, "No, that's your reflection!"
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: And even if you resist this cookie-cutter existence, cultivate individual styles and abilities—like cutting your hair differently, or running faster—uncanny similarities bond you together: facial expressions, body language, the way you laugh—or dress for an interview, perhaps, when you hadn't a clue what your sister was going to wear. The synchrony in your lives constantly confronts you.
CLOTILDE: When I see my sister, I see myself. If she looks good, I think, "I look pretty today." But if she's not wearing makeup, I say, "My god, I look horrible!"
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: It's hardly surprising because you both come from the same egg. You have precisely the same genes. And you are literally clones, better known, as identical twins.
But now, imagine this: one day, your twin, your clone, is diagnosed with cancer. If you're the other twin, what can you do except wait for the symptoms?
CLOTILDE: I have been told that I am a high risk for cancer. Damocles' sword hangs over me.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: And yet, it's not uncommon for a twin, like Ana Mari, to get a dread disease, while the other, like Clotilde, doesn't. But how can two people so alike, be so unalike?
Well, these mice may hold a clue. Their DNA is as identical as Ana Mari and Clotilde's despite the differences in their color and size. The human who studies them is Duke University's Randy Jirtle.
So, Randy, I see here you have skinny mice and fat mice. What have you done in this lab?
RANDY JIRTLE: Well, these animals are actually genetically identical.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: The fat ones and the skinny ones?
RANDY JIRTLE: That's correct.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Because these are huge.
RANDY JIRTLE: They're huge.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Can we weigh them and find out?
RANDY JIRTLE: Sure. So if you take this...
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: It looks like they can barely walk.
RANDY JIRTLE: They can't walk too much. They're not going to be running very far. So that's about 63 grams.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: 63 grams.
RANDY JIRTLE: Let's look at the other one.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: So it's half the weight.
RANDY JIRTLE: Right.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: This gets even more mysterious when you realize that these identical mice both have a particular gene, called agouti, but in the yellow mouse it stays on all the time, causing obesity.
Just look at this.
So what accounts for the thin mouse? Exercise? Atkins? No, a tiny chemical tag of carbon and hydrogen, called a methyl group, has affixed to the agouti gene, shutting it down. Living creatures possess millions of tags like these. Some, like methyl groups, attach to genes directly, inhibiting their function. Other types grab the proteins, called histones, around which genes coil, and tighten or loosen them to control gene expression. Distinct methylation and histone patterns exist in every cell, constituting a sort of second genome, the epigenome.
RANDY JIRTLE: Epigenetics literally translates into just meaning "above the genome." So if you would think, for example, of the genome as being like a computer, the hardware of a computer, the epigenome would be like the software that tells the computer when to work, how to work, and how much.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: In fact, it's the epigenome that tells our cells what sort of cells they should be. Skin? Hair? Heart? You see, all these cells have the same genes. But their epigenomes silence the unneeded ones to make cells different from one another. Epigenetic instructions pass on as cells divide, but they're not necessarily permanent. Researchers think they can change, especially during critical periods like puberty or pregnancy.
Jirtle's mice reveal how the epigenome can be altered. To produce thin, brown mice instead of fat, yellow ones, he feeds pregnant mothers a diet rich in methyl groups to form the tags that can turn genes off.
RANDY JIRTLE: And I think you can see that we dramatically shifted the coat color and we get many, many more brown animals.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: And that matters because your coat color is a tracer, is an indicator...
RANDY JIRTLE: That's correct.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: ...of the fact that you have turned off that gene?
RANDY JIRTLE: That's right.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: This epigenetic fix was also inherited by the next generation of mice, regardless of what their mothers ate. And when an environmental toxin was added to the diet instead of nutrients, more yellow babies were born, doomed to grow fat and sick like their mothers.
It seems to me, this has profound implications for our health.
RANDY JIRTLE: It does, for human health. If there are genes like this in humans, basically, what you eat can affect your future generations. So you're not only what you eat, but potentially what your mother ate, and possibly even what your grandparents ate.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: So how do you go to humans to do this experiment, when you have these mice, and they're genetically identical on purpose?
RANDY JIRTLE: That's right.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: So, who is your perfect lab human?
RANDY JIRTLE: Well, then we look for identical humans, which are identical twins.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Twins, twins.
And that brings us to the reason why we're showing you Spanish twins. In 2005, they participated in a groundbreaking study in Madrid. Its aim? To show just how identical, epigenetically, they are or aren't.
MANEL ESTELLER (Spanish National Cancer Center): One of the questions of twins is, "If my twin has this disease, I will have the same disease?" And genetics tell us that there is a high risk of developing the same disease. But it's not really sure they are going to have it, because our genes are just part of the story. Something has to regulate these genes, and part of the explanation is epigenetics.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Esteller wanted to see if the twins' epigenomes might account for their differences. To find out, he and his team collected cells from 40 pairs of identical twins, age three to 74, then began the laborious process of dissolving the cells until all that was left were wispy strands of DNA, the master molecule that contains our genes.
Next, researchers amplified fragments of the DNA, until the genes themselves became detectable. Those that had been turned off epigenetically appear as dark pink bands on the gel. Now, notice what happens when the genes from a pair of twins are cut out and overlapped.
The results are far from subtle, especially when you compare the epigenomes of two sets of twins that differ in age. Here, on the left, is the overlapped DNA of six-year-old Javier and Carlos. The yellow indicates where their gene expression is identical.
On the right, is the DNA of 66-year-old Ana Mari and Clotilde. In contrast to the younger twins, hardly any yellow shines through. Their epigenomes have changed dramatically.
The study suggests that, as twins age, epigenetic differences accumulate, especially when their lifestyles differ.
MANEL ESTELLER: One of the main findings of our research is that epigenomes can change in function of what we eat, of what we smoke, of what we drink. And this is one of the key differences between epigenetics and genetics.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: As the chemical tags that control our genes change, cells can become abnormal, triggering diseases like cancer. Take a disorder like MDS, cancer of the blood and bone marrow. It's not a diagnosis you'd ever want to hear.
SANDRA SHELBY: When I went in, he started patting my hand, and he was going, "Your blood work does not look very good at all," and that I had MDS leukemia, and that there was not a cure for it. And, basically, I had six months to live.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Was epigenetics the reason? Could the silencing of critical genes turn normal cells into cancerous ones? It's scary to think that a few misplaced tags can kill you. But it's also good news, because we've traditionally viewed cancer as a disease stemming solely from broken genes. And it's a lot harder to fix damaged genes than to rearrange epigenetic tags. In fact, we already have a few drugs that will work. Recently, Sandra Shelby and Roy Cantwell participated in one of the first clinical trials using epigenetic therapy.
JEAN PIERRE ISSA (M.D. Anderson Cancer Center): The idea of epigenetic therapy is to stay away from killing the cell. Rather, what we are trying to do is diplomacy, trying to change the instructions of the cancer cells, reminding the cell, "Hey, you're a human cell. You shouldn't be behaving this way." And we try to do that by reactivating genes.
SANDRA SHELBY: The results have been incredible, and I didn't have really any horrible side effects.
ROY CANTWELL: I am in remission. And going in the plus direction is a whole lot better than the minus direction.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: In fact, half the patients in the trial are now in remission. But, while it maybe easier to fix our epigenome than our genome, messing it up is easier, too.
RANDY JIRTLE: We've got to get people thinking more about what they do. They have a responsibility for their epigenome. Their genome they inherit. But their epigenome, they potentially can alter, and particularly that of their children. And that brings in responsibility, but it also brings in hope. You're not necessarily stuck with this. You can alter this.
National corporate funding for NOVA is provided by The Boeing Company. Major funding for NOVA is provided by David H. Koch, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and PBS viewers.
Leave it to Joel Osteen, or any other preacher for that matter, to take something scientific and twist it to fit their Gawd delusion.
Most so-called Christians would be doing well to learn this lesson...
Pastor Jeremiah Steepek transformed himself into a homeless person and went to the 10,000 member church that he was to be introduced as the head pastor at that morning. He walked around his soon to be church for 30 minutes while it was filling with people for service....only 3 people out of the 7-10,000 people said hello to him. He asked people for change to buy food....NO ONE in the church gave him change. He went into the sanctuary to sit down in the front of the church and was asked by the ushers if he would please sit n the back. He greeted people to be greeted back with stares and dirty looks, with people looking down on him and judging him.
As he sat in the back of the church, he listened to the church announcements and such. When all that was done, the elders went up and were excited to introduce the new pastor of the church to the congregation........"We would like to introduce to you Pastor Jeremiah Steepek"....The congregation looked around clapping with joy and anticipation.....The homeless man sitting in the back stood up.....and started walking down the aisle.....the clapping stopped with ALL eyes on him....he walked up the altar and took the microphone from the elders (who were in on this) and paused for a moment....then he recited
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'
After he recited this, he looked towards the congregation and told them all what he had experienced that morning...many began to cry and many heads were bowed in shame.... he then said....Today I see a gathering of people......not a church of Jesus Christ. The world has enough people, but not enough disciples...when will YOU decide to become disciples? He then dismissed service until next week.......Being a Christian is more than something you claim. I'ts something you live by and share with others.
WOW! Now that is AWESOME! That is a lesson that smacked 10,000 people right in their ass.
I hope this is a true story.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 24, 2013, 10:30:50 PM
WOW! Now that is AWESOME! That is a lesson that smacked 10,000 people right in their ass.
I hope this is a true story.... :yes:
I'm thinkin' it's one of those email things he's always jabbin' us about to be honest.
Quote from: me on July 24, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
I'm thinkin' it's one of those email things he's always jabbin' us about to be honest.
I did not get this in an email but whether it's true or not doesn't change the message. And here's a clue for you...instead of running your fucking mouth, how about you look something up once in a while? You know, like whether or not they can actually grow grapes in England or some such nonsense?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 25, 2013, 12:10:53 AM
I did not get this in an email but whether it's true or not doesn't change the message. And here's a clue for you...instead of running your fucking mouth, how about you look something up once in a while? You know, like whether or not they can actually grow grapes in England or some such nonsense?
Email....Facebook...same difference.
Quote from: me on July 25, 2013, 12:29:29 AM
Email....Facebook...same difference.
Again, does it change the underlying message that most Christians are hypocrites? No.
Though I think me has a valid point to make.. ( you can do it, but when we do it, it is just wrong)...I think sometimes WHERE the source comes from is irrevelant, but the message behind the point.
I think this one may not be a true story, but it carries a powerful punch.
I honestly believe many churches today are exactly how this church is. My opinion is that many of these people attending these mega-church's are going to an Exclusive Country Club, rather than worshiping God.
The tithings go to Million dollar sound systems, lighting and video equipment. They have work-out spa's, tea-parlors, and gymnasiums better than many public schools. It is more of a social event rather than a worship session.
It is very easy to be a "Christian" one hour a week, than actually LIVING our daily lives as Christ wants us to live.
I know that I fail miserably at this.
I could go on and on........but, I don't think it makes a lick of difference. So.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 25, 2013, 08:31:59 AM
Though I think me has a valid point to make.. ( you can do it, but when we do it, it is just wrong)...
Seems both of you have a hard time differentiating between an anecdotal story and outright lies presented as fact.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 25, 2013, 08:51:40 AM
Seems both of you have a hard time differentiating between an anecdotal story and outright lies presented as fact.
You are still missing the point. No, I know the difference.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 25, 2013, 08:51:40 AM
Seems both of you have a hard time differentiating between an anecdotal story and outright lies presented as fact.
Ya, if HH or I had posted it it would be an outright lie but you posted it so it's an anecdotal story.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 25, 2013, 08:53:19 AM
You are still missing the point.
No, clearly the two of you are.
Nope. I get it. :yes:
One would think that if they believe so whole-heartedly in a book of parables, they'd understand; but then again they don't understand anything about the book either. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on July 25, 2013, 08:51:07 PM
One would think that if they believe so whole-heartedly in a book of parables, they'd understand; but then again they don't understand anything about the book either. . .
Maybe because they can't read? Just sayin'...
Quote from: Exterminator on July 25, 2013, 09:42:27 PM
Maybe because they can't read? Just sayin'...
Well, we all know about that comprehension challenge they possess. :smile:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 27, 2013, 06:25:38 PM
INDIANAPOLIS -
The Indianapolis Fire Department says three people were killed when a bus carrying teens from a church camp crashed on a busy thoroughfare near Interstate 465. It happened along Keystone Ave. near 96th Street at around 4:00 pm.
The three people were a married couple, along with a teenager. It isn't known if the teen was related to the husband and wife.
The bus was carrying 37 passengers who are members of Colonial Hills Baptist Church and were returning from camp in Michigan when the crash happened Saturday afternoon. Most of them were teenagers.
Witnesses told police that the bus was exiting I-465 and trying to make a left onto southbound Keystone Ave. at a very high rate of speed. The bus driver later told a witness that his brakes failed.
The bus entered the median and struck the concrete retaining wall, flipped into the air and landed on its side, traveling some distance, the metal leaving skid marks as it ground against the concrete. . .
http://www.wthr.com/story/22948159/2013/07/27/bus-crash-with-injuries-on-north-side (http://www.wthr.com/story/22948159/2013/07/27/bus-crash-with-injuries-on-north-side)
Nothin' like tha' Sky Daddy offin' a few of his followers. :wink:
I just heard someone say, "God gives unconditional love!"
WTF???
God sucks and his followers are stupid. :yes:
What is your point of posting it on here?
Are YOU just trolling? :razz:
Do you think God gives unconditional love?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 15, 2013, 02:58:16 PM
What is your point of posting it on here?
Because this is the God Sucks thread?
Not going to answer you. It would serve NO purpose. Especially in THIS thread.
I was just commenting on the silliness of the guy's initial statement given all of the rules laid out in the Bible. Clearly that statement is not too accurate. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on August 15, 2013, 04:13:30 PM
I was just commenting on the silliness of the guy's initial statement given all of the rules laid out in the Bible. Clearly that statement is not too accurate. :wink:
The Bible is pretty clear about the love of God. BUT...I'm NOT going to discuss it. :no: :no: not going to do it...and YOU can't make me... :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 15, 2013, 04:21:39 PM
The Bible is pretty clear about the love of God. BUT...I'm NOT going to discuss it. :no: :no: not going to do it...and YOU can't make me... :razz:
However you try and justify your beliefs, the love of your God is clearly
NOT unconditional. :wink:
:razz:
You know it too regardless of whether you comment or not. ;D That was the only point of my original post.
Besides, the God Sucks thread needs bumped from time to time just so none forget. :yes: ;D
Quote from: Locutus on August 15, 2013, 05:12:23 PM
However you try and justify your beliefs, the love of your God is clearly NOT unconditional. :wink:
:razz:
You know it too regardless of whether you comment or not. ;D That was the only point of my original post.
Yep, :rolleyes: God's love is unconditional! ;D Just try to gather wood on a Sunday during the Old Testament time. :haha: Get some more rocks Himie. :haha:
Church Trip for Gawd and. . .
A highway crash in northeast Tennessee involving a church bus, a tractor-trailer truck and a SUV has left eight people dead. Officials say the church bus blew a tire, crossed a median and was then struck by the other two vehicles. Fourteen others were injured. The bus was carrying a senior adult group that had been on a church trip to Gatlinburg.
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/1383640_10151756783731144_306413636_n_zps20c88335.jpg) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/1383640_10151756783731144_306413636_n_zps20c88335.jpg.html)
:spooked:
You know, there sure seem to be a hell of a lot of church buses and vans involved in crashes.
Quote from: Locutus on October 02, 2013, 08:11:45 PM
:spooked:
You know, there sure seem to be a hell of a lot of church buses and vans involved in crashes.
Yup. Ol Gawd must be sayin', "Hell, you're in the truck, you might as well come on home!" :eek:
God doesn't suck. :no:
That is all I will say. ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 03, 2013, 08:29:42 AM
God doesn't suck. :no:
That is all I will say. ;)
Then why does he keep offing his followers in church vans and buses? :razz:
Quote from: Locutus on October 03, 2013, 06:29:29 PM
Then why does he keep offing his followers in church vans and buses? :razz:
Cause he loves them. :haha: :haha: :haha: Can you think of a better way to die, mashed up in a bus and big truck wreck. :biggrin: :spooked:
Quote from: The Troll on October 03, 2013, 10:48:00 PM
Cause he loves them. :haha: :haha: :haha: Can you think of a better way to die, mashed up in a bus and big truck wreck. :biggrin: :spooked:
...and flying right into the arms of ole' Jeebus. :yes: ;D
God sucks and communion sucks too! :spooked:
(Reuters) - Catholics in North Dakota were warned to watch for symptoms of hepatitis A after a bishop with the disease served Communion at four churches, putting worshipers at risk, state officials said.
Bishop John Folda of the Catholic Diocese of Fargo got hepatitis from contaminated food while in Italy last month for a conference of newly ordained bishops, Aliceyn Magelky, spokeswoman for the diocese, said on Friday.
Folda served Communion during Mass at three churches in Fargo and one church in Jamestown between September 27 and October 7, according to the North Dakota Department of Health. The Mass in Jamestown was at a convention of priests.
"He feels terrible about it," Magelky said. "He did not know when coming back that he had contracted the virus or he would have refrained from participating in Mass much sooner."
Magelky said Folda is feeling better and has not been infectious since October 16, but is still not on a full work schedule. Priests who attended Folda's Mass in Jamestown were notified directly of the bishop's illness, she said.
Hepatitis A can cause infection of the liver and is found in the feces of infected people, according to the health department. It is most often spread when people with the disease fail to wash their hands thoroughly and then touch other people.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/sns-rt-us-usa-bishop-communion-20131025,0,6135211.story
Here we have Costco apologizing for simply telling the truth. ;D
Wholesale retailer Costco has apologized for accidentally labeling copies of the Bible as "fiction" at a California store.
A local pastor tweeted a picture of one of the bibles and it quickly drew a stir on social media, KTLA reports.
Costco issued an apology Wednesday, saying the error was a mistake by one of its distributors.
"Costco's distributor mislabeled a small percentage of the Bibles, however we take responsibility and should have caught the mistake. We are correcting this with them for future distribution," the statement said. "In addition, we are immediately relabeling all mislabeled Bibles. We greatly apologized for this error."
The Duck Dynasty saga has people thinking about what Christians claim to believe...
The Bible is the infallible word of the Lord. If you are a true Christian, you follow these commands:
Who You Should Kill
Unruly or rebellious child.
"And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die; so shall you put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:20-21
Those who curse or hit their parents.
"For every one that curse his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." Leviticus 20:9
"And he that smites his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." Exodus 21:15
Worshipers of other gods.
"If you brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, you, nor your fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth; You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him; But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people; And you shall stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage; And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you." Deuteronomy 13:6-11
Psychics, witches.
"A man also a woman that has a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:27
Deuteronomy 13:6-11 (see above)
"You shall not suffer a witch to live" Exodus 22:18
Those who do not believe in Jesus (parable).
"But those my enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19:27
Those who work on the Sabbath.
"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever does work therein shall be put to death." Exodus 35:2
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said to Moses, The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died, as the Lord commanded Moses." Numbers 15:32-36.
Those who are accused by at least two people of wickedness.
"At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." Deuteronomy 17:6
The children and babies of enemies.
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known man by lying with him." Numbers 31:17
"And when the Lord your God has delivered it into your hands, you shall smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword." Deuteronomy 20:13
"Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes thy little ones against the stones." Psalms 137:9
"And you shall eat the flesh of your sons , and the flesh of your daughters you shall eat." Leviticus 26:29
Adulterers.
"And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbors wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." Lev 20:10
Homosexuals.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; and their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13
A woman who is not a virgin when married.
"Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she has wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shall you put evil away from among you." Deuteronomy 22:21
Those who are careless with murderous livestock.
"But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it has been testified to his owner, and he has not kept him in, but that he has killed a man or a woman: the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death." Exodus 21:29
Who You Should Hate
Those who eat crab or shrimp.
"And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you." Lev 11:10
Those who sacrifice an animal to God that has a blemish.
"You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evil favor: for that is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 17:1
Those who remarry the same person after divorce.
"Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord" Deuteronomy 24:4
Homosexuals.
"You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22
Those who are proud.
"Everyone that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord" Proverbs 16:5
A woman who wears pants.
"The woman shall not wear which pertains to a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5
A man with long hair (Jesus?).
"Does not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair it is a shame to him?" 1 Corinthians 11:14
Those who call others fools
"...But whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Mat 5:22
Should we still do this stuff?
All Old Testament laws still apply in the New Testament. Matt 5:17-19
You don't pick and choose from the word of God, right? You don't pull out of passages you don't like, but then wholeheartedly accept those you do like?
So either you are a true Christian, and you'll follow those loving commands from God. Or you are doomed to be tortured in hell forever! Oh Glory!
:yes:
Yes, God is a wonderful, kind, fair minded asshole. :rolleyes: I wonder why he won't replace an eye, arm, leg, cure crippled children. No matter how many prayers and ass kissisng you people give him, Skippy. :confused: :trustme:
Just more proof that many people don't really know what being a follower of Christ REALLY means....but LOVE to criticize.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 23, 2013, 01:33:55 PM
Just more proof that many people don't really know what being a follower of Christ REALLY means....but LOVE to criticize.
That comes straight from the book you claim to follow.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 27, 2013, 12:42:17 PM
That comes straight from the book you claim to follow.
so.
You got to read it as it was meant to be read....not just picking verses out here and there and running with it. You know that as well too.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 27, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
so.
You got to read it as it was meant to be read....not just picking verses out here and there and running with it. You know that as well too.
Your book is a fairy tale and pure bull shit for peoples who still believes in magic. Virgin birth. :haha: :haha: :haha: Why don't you pray :pray: for a child who has lost a leg of a arm in an accident. Maybe god will replace it. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 27, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
You got to read it as it was meant to be read....not just picking verses out here and there and running with it. You know that as well too.
So picking out random passages is only allowed when you're using the book to pass judgment on others?
Quote from: Exterminator on December 28, 2013, 01:53:35 PM
So picking out random passages is only allowed when you're using the book to pass judgment on others?
Did I ever say that? Nope.
Quote
(CNN) -- A Kentucky pastor who starred in a reality show about snake-handling in church has died -- of a snakebite.
Jamie Coots died Saturday evening after refusing to be treated, Middleborough police said.
On "Snake Salvation," the ardent Pentecostal believer said that he believed that a passage in the Bible suggests poisonous snakebites will not harm believers as long as they are anointed by God. The practice is illegal in most states, but still goes on, primarily in the rural South.
Coots was a third-generation "serpent handler" and aspired to one day pass the practice and his church, Full Gospel Tabernacle in Jesus Name, on to his adult son, Little Cod.
Guess that guy figured out that he either wasn't anointed, or that simply....God sucks! ;D
Either way, he's dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/us/snake-salvation-pastor-bite/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
:reap: :reap: :reap:
Quote from: Locutus on February 16, 2014, 08:11:31 PM
Guess that guy figured out that he either wasn't anointed, or that simply....God sucks! ;D
Either way, he's dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/us/snake-salvation-pastor-bite/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
:reap: :reap: :reap:
I read that earlier today and had to stifle a laugh. You play with snakes you are going to get bit; simple as that. As many have said to me in the past, "God helps those who help themselves"; and playing with venomous snakes is not considered helping yourself.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 16, 2014, 08:21:11 PM
I read that earlier today and had to stifle a laugh. You play with snakes you are going to get bit; simple as that. As many have said to me in the past, "God helps those who help themselves"; and playing with venomous snakes is not considered helping yourself.
In the name of the "Full Gospel Tabernacle in Jesus Name," I say, "Amen!"
....and God still sucks. :wink:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 16, 2014, 08:21:11 PM
I read that earlier today and had to stifle a laugh. You play with snakes you are going to get bit; simple as that. As many have said to me in the past, "God helps those who help themselves"; and playing with venomous snakes is not considered helping yourself.
Very well said! The way I see it, God gave of us all a brian.........it is up to us if we use it or not.
That old sneaky snake had teeth, huh? :haha: :haha: One more Teapub gone. :choo: :choo: :choo: :thumbsup:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/14/600000-stolen-from-joel-osteens-megachurch/?hpt=hp_t3 (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/14/600000-stolen-from-joel-osteens-megachurch/?hpt=hp_t3)
Someone stole 600K from ol Joel's collection box. And that was just the take for 2 days! :spooked:
That equates to $31,200,000.00 a year in income, if those two days are representative of the weekly intake of his church. All untaxed. :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 14, 2014, 09:28:10 PM
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/14/600000-stolen-from-joel-osteens-megachurch/?hpt=hp_t3 (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/14/600000-stolen-from-joel-osteens-megachurch/?hpt=hp_t3)
Someone stole 600K from ol Joel's collection box. And that was just the take for 2 days! :spooked:
That equates to $31,200,000.00 a year in income, if those two days are representative of the weekly intake of his church. All untaxed. :mad:
Why would anyone keep $60,000 cash in a safe and not in the bank, if they were not a con man, a false flimflam man, god damn liar. Let us pray. :pray: :pope: and put something in the plate. :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Troll on March 15, 2014, 04:31:56 PM
Why would anyone keep $60,000 cash in a safe and not in the bank, if they were not a con man, a false flimflam man, god damn liar. Let us pray. :pray: :pope: and put something in the plate. :rolleyes:
That was $600,000.00 Troll. Six hundred thousand dollars! :spooked:
I guess yah never know when GAWD will tell you to get 600 thousand dollars and go stimulate the economy. . . :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 15, 2014, 06:57:30 PM
That was $600,000.00 Troll. Six hundred thousand dollars! :spooked:
I guess yah never know when GAWD will tell you to get 600 thousand dollars and go stimulate the economy. . . :rolleyes:
Sorry I missed the extra zero. :biggrin: But every con man, banker, IRS man, cheat and crooked preacher :jc: knows is you can't track cash. :yes: :mad: :rant:
Quote from: The Troll on March 16, 2014, 01:25:16 PM
Sorry I missed the extra zero. :biggrin: But every con man, banker, IRS man, cheat and crooked preacher :jc: knows is you can't track cash. :yes: :mad: :rant:
Yeah, and with all those tax-free millions to play with, who really knows what they are doing with it?
Quote from: Palehorse on March 16, 2014, 01:29:10 PM
Yeah, and with all those tax-free millions to play with, who really knows what they are doing with it?
Joel Osteen is a very interesting person. Since his program comes on Sundays after Fox News Sunday (yes,I'm a democrat) I sometimes catch some of his brand of motivational speaking ... uh, preaching, which lately has included a bit of his version of epigenetics. His ingenuity is to say the least, very interesting.
Well, you all are probably going to bash me good but I do believe in God but I also think that God helps those who help themselves. I believe in other religions and I was raised in a Protestant home, went to church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday, went to church camps and even attended a Christian college and then converted to Catholicism when my husband and I married. I left the Catholic church several years ago because quite honestly I don't believe all the Catholic church is cracked up about. I still have beliefs ingrained in me but I am open enough to believe other things. The Kentucky snake handling preacher was a dumbass and got what he deserved.
Hello and :welcome2: Purplelady. I'm a relative newcomer here myself.
It's alright if you believe in God. I do too. Just not the one humankind has been trying to ram down our throats for centuries now. . .
Thanks Palehorse, it would surprise everyone if they knew how open-minded I really am!!! ;)
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
Thanks Palehorse, it would surprise everyone if they knew how open-minded I really am!!! ;)
You're free to let everyone know here how you believe. Even me. :wink:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
Thanks Palehorse, it would surprise everyone if they knew how open-minded I really am!!! ;)
Well then, you've come to the right place! :smile:
Well. all anyone has to do is ask!!! :wink: :wink:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 07:21:24 PM
Well. all anyone has to do is ask!!! :wink: :wink:
Well then. . . About that tan line thing. . . :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on March 16, 2014, 05:20:13 PM
You're free to let everyone know here how you believe. Even me. :wink:
Now did you mean "you" me or "me" me?
What you want to know, Palehorse? Do I tan au natural or do I have tan lines?
Quote from: me on March 16, 2014, 08:08:49 PM
Now did you mean "you" me or "me" me?
<------------------ That me. :yes:
:me: I thought you meant me!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
Well, you all are probably going to bash me good but I do believe in God but I also think that God helps those who help themselves. I believe in other religions and I was raised in a Protestant home, went to church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday, went to church camps and even attended a Christian college and then converted to Catholicism when my husband and I married. I left the Catholic church several years ago because quite honestly I don't believe all the Catholic church is cracked up about. I still have beliefs ingrained in me but I am open enough to believe other things. The Kentucky snake handling preacher was a dumbass and got what he deserved.
I came from a religious family, religion was shoved down my throat. :puke: After much research I believe there is no god. If there was a god he is one of the most piss poor invisiable assholes in the universe. It tickles me how the believers believe in prayer :haha: :haha: When prayer can get their god to replace a lost arm, a lost eye, any body part lost in any way, I might change my mind. :yes:
I go to a large hospital rehab center three times a week and when I see the poor children, brain damaged crippled in their wheel chairs damaged for life. :mad: What kind of a god are you worshiping for him to let this happen to all of the children. :mad: Children all over the world. :rant:
Well, I can see where you would think that but I have seen a God who has placed a child in a mother's arms and allowed her and her husband the opportunity to adopt when they couldn't get have children. Yes, I have seen special needs children and God only gives those to people who can handle them and I have worked with those children, they have taught me more about love and life than one can find possible. My mother passed away from cancer in 1993, she fought a good hard battle with it and yes, I blamed God for letting him take a woman who never smoked, drank or did any kind of drugs to allow this to happen but I also know that disease doesn't discriminate towards anyone. I am not saying God is fair and just because at times I don't think he is but I also don't see the need to blame him for everything in the world. Look at this way- a drunk gets in a car, mows down an 18 year old and kills that person, who is blame God for letting the 18 year old get killed or the dumbass drunk?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 08:40:50 PM
:me: I thought you meant me!
Oh, I like to give Locutus a hard time too. I seldom get the chance but when I do I go for the gusto. :biggrin:
Quote from: me on March 16, 2014, 09:44:17 PM
Oh, I like to give Locutus a hard time too. I seldom get the chance but when I do I go for the gusto. :biggrin:
:spooked: ;D
Lol, well Locutus is a good person!! :icon_twisted:
Okay all you nice looking guys, I am off to the land of Winken, Blinken and Nod because I have to go to school tomorrow and educate young children. I promise I will not be corrupting them!!!!
G'night, and welcome again to our corner of the Internet. ;D
Morning fellas!!! Got any coffee around this joint?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 17, 2014, 07:42:33 AM
Morning fellas!!! Got any coffee around this joint?
Good Morning Purplelady, I'm ready for a hot cup myself!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 17, 2014, 07:42:33 AM
Morning fellas!!! Got any coffee around this joint?
You might try the Hawks Bar and Grill in the members blog area. He's been known to serve java that will make your scalp crawl and your hair curl!
Well, it has been a helluva a day, subbed with special need kiddos today and they are so sweet but wear you out. :biggrin:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 09:25:50 PM
Well, I can see where you would think that but I have seen a God who has placed a child in a mother's arms and allowed her and her husband the opportunity to adopt when they couldn't get have children. Yes, I have seen special needs children and God only gives those to people who can handle them and I have worked with those children, they have taught me more about love and life than one can find possible. My mother passed away from cancer in 1993, she fought a good hard battle with it and yes, I blamed God for letting him take a woman who never smoked, drank or did any kind of drugs to allow this to happen but I also know that disease doesn't discriminate towards anyone. I am not saying God is fair and just because at times I don't think he is but I also don't see the need to blame him for everything in the world. Look at this way- a drunk gets in a car, mows down an 18 year old and kills that person, who is blame God for letting the 18 year old get killed or the dumbass drunk?
Why thank god, why blame god, he doesn't exist. Your god isn't perfect, for there isn't anything perfect . All mental illusions placed in your mind by false preachers and your family from the day you were born. All religions are pure bullshit, smoke and mirrors for the Sheeple. :yes: :jc: :pray: :pope:
That is your right to think that and my right to believe what I want to believe. No one has put smoked mirrors or other things in my mind or lead me to be a sheeple. Everyone has a free mind and right to believe what they want. You believe what you want and I believe what I want.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
Thanks Palehorse, it would surprise everyone if they knew how open-minded I really am!!! ;)
I can appreciate that. I was raised in a religious houshold, but it was also an open minded household. I was made to attend church until I came of age. It was then that I was given a choice wheter to attend or not; I never went back.
I had begun to question the things I had been taught and the more I looked, the less any of it made sense. I started arguing furiously with religious people. I discovered that no amount of arguing was going to change anyone's mind. It was up to that individual as to what they chose to believe and no amount of logic could change that if they weren't willing to be open minded.
In retrospect, I saw that I wasn't arguing with the intent of changing their mind - I wanted them to change mine. But, it never happened. You'd be hard pressed to ever hear an atheist admit this but, I WANT to believe. It's a nice story and all, but I'm simply not capable of suspending the logical part of my brain that calls BS.
I have my opinions, but I no longer make it a practice to argue about it or let it color my perceptions of others.
A life lived with an open mind lets the breeze blow through.
Quote from: Rorschach on March 17, 2014, 07:42:37 PM
I can appreciate that. I was raised in a religious houshold, but it was also an open minded household. I was made to attend church until I came of age. It was then that I was given a choice wheter to attend or not; I never went back.
I had begun to question the things I had been taught and the more I looked, the less any of it made sense. I started arguing furiously with religious people. I discovered that no amount of arguing was going to change anyone's mind. It was up to that individual as to what they chose to believe and no amount of logic could change that if they weren't willing to be open minded.
In retrospect, I saw that I wasn't arguing with the intent of changing their mind - I wanted them to change mine. But, it never happened. You'd be hard pressed to ever hear an atheist admit this but, I WANT to believe. It's a nice story and all, but I'm simply not capable of suspending the logical part of my brain that calls BS.
I have my opinions, but I no longer make it a practice to argue about it or let it color my perceptions of others.
A life lived with an open mind lets the breeze blow through.
Ah, well stated Rorschach. I find nothing to disagree with and whole lot
to agree with! :yes:
I agree with you Rorschach Mask. People have a right to free will and to believe what they want. No one tells me what to do or who to believe, that is what I decide. :angel:
I'm normally not in this topic because I really don't agree with the name of the topic, I think it's the people not God that sucks, but this it beyond ridiculous so I had to post it.
http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/weird/2014/03/26/girl-not-feminine-virginia-school/6903345/
I agree that it is people who suck, I always have liked the bumper sticker- mean people suck!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 26, 2014, 02:39:17 PM
I agree that it is people who suck, I always have liked the bumper sticker- mean people suck!
:biggrin:
The current Pope of the Catholic faith, is running around the globe and chastising church leadership for their multi-million dollar mansions and trappings of the wealthy.
He has eschewed the palatial papal offices and digs for a meager apartment, and a small compact car instead of the limo. He has stated numerous times that he expects church leadership to do the same. And apparently he meant it. After canning the Bling dude, he has now brought about the sale of the Archbishop of Atlanta' 2.2 million dollar mansion.
http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/index.php?action=post;topic=3331.2475;last_msg=488147 (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/index.php?action=post;topic=3331.2475;last_msg=488147)
He's got a tough job ahead of him, but I am starting to like this guy a little. :biggrin:
Now, if he would only allow priest to marry and punish those who molested children, I would like him more!
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/b702ed57-dd92-4537-80eb-c00738d20fa9_zpsa031cae0.jpg) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/b702ed57-dd92-4537-80eb-c00738d20fa9_zpsa031cae0.jpg.html)
;D
Quote from: Palehorse on April 11, 2014, 05:15:20 PM
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/b702ed57-dd92-4537-80eb-c00738d20fa9_zpsa031cae0.jpg) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/b702ed57-dd92-4537-80eb-c00738d20fa9_zpsa031cae0.jpg.html)
Yes, there is no god and the bible was written by men and a Roman Cesar to keep the people stupid and under their control. Let us :pray: :preach: :pope:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/1458706_10152077018760847_8537239874951546708_n_zps7cf89ff4.jpg) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/1458706_10152077018760847_8537239874951546708_n_zps7cf89ff4.jpg.html)
They think their dog's ass looks like Jesus....
Looks more like the lion from Wizard Of Oz with a Yeti or polar bears body to me.
Quote from: moondance27 on April 18, 2014, 11:06:51 PM
They think their dog's ass looks like Jesus....
LMAO!! My sister's beagle's ass looks just like that! :biggrin:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 17, 2014, 07:38:43 PM
That is your right to think that and my right to believe what I want to believe. No one has put smoked mirrors or other things in my mind or lead me to be a sheeple. Everyone has a free mind and right to believe what they want. You believe what you want and I believe what I want.
Oh let some one say Amen! I agree with you !00%, let the Jesus Freaks believe anything they want, just don't try to shove it down the rest of our throats. Amen, :pray: :preach: :pope:
Let the religious, think the moon is made out of cheese, the world is flat, we didn't land on the moon, virgin birth, god is a nice man and never makes any mistakes and Obama wasn't born in America and he didn't have a proper birth certificate. :sarcasm: :poop:
Quote from: moondance27 on April 18, 2014, 11:06:51 PM
They think their dog's ass looks like Jesus....
Could it "ME" or Henry and not a dog's ass. :barman
Quote from: The Troll on April 19, 2014, 11:52:16 AM
Oh let some one say Amen! I agree with you !00%, let the Jesus Freaks believe anything they want, just don't try to shove it down the rest of our throats. Amen, :pray: :preach: :pope:
Let the religious, think the moon is made out of cheese, the world is flat, we didn't land on the moon, virgin birth, god is a nice man and never makes any mistakes and Obama wasn't born in America and he didn't have a proper birth certificate. :sarcasm: :poop:
Do you see me shoving my religious beliefs down yours or anyone else's throat? Nope, you don't because I don't do that but keep believing that.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on April 19, 2014, 05:49:55 PM
Do you see me shoving my religious beliefs down yours or anyone else's throat? Nope, you don't because I don't do that but keep believing that.
see what I mean purplelady,.....He just can't help himself from butting in and making it personal....
By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Editor
Raleigh, North Carolina (CNN) – Back home, they erase their Internet histories, look over their shoulders before cracking jokes and nod politely when co-workers talk about church.
But in a hotel ballroom here on a recent weekend, more than 220 atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers let it all hang out.
The convention was called "Freedom From Religion in the Bible Belt," and it was part celebration of skepticism and part strategy session about surviving in the country's most religious region.
They sang songs about the futility of faith, shared stories about "coming out" as nonbelievers and bought books about the Bible – critical ones, of course.
"Isn't it great to be in a room where you can say whatever you want to whomever you want without fear of anyone criticizing you for being unorthodox?" asked Dan Barker, co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, as he opened the two-day convention.
The Wisconsin-based foundation co-sponsored the event with the Triangle Freethought Society, which draws its members from this state's tech-heavy Research Triangle.
The nonbelievers came from as far afield as Ireland and France, but most described themselves as refugees from the heart of the South - atheist anomalies amid fiercely devout friends, family and neighbors.
We wanted to know what it's like to be a nonbeliever in the Bible Belt, so over the course of the weekend we asked some of the folks here to share their survival secrets.
They had a lot to say, and some of their advice overlapped, but we came away with eight top tips. Some said they wished they'd had something like this list when they began their foray into religious infidelity.
So, without further ado, here's our "survival guide" to being an atheist in the Bible Belt:
You may be lonely, but you aren't alone
Not so long ago, every other letter sent to the Freedom From Religion Foundation would begin something like, "I'm the only atheist in Nebraska ... "
It's still lonely being an atheist in rural America, says Annie Laurie Gaylor, the foundation's co-president, but there are plenty of skeptics and nonbelievers in God's Country – if you know how to find them.
Even the most religious states like Mississippi and Alabama have secular meetup groups, although many keep quiet and require long drives to attend.
Gaylor's favorite story about the secretive lives of Bible Belt atheists involves two neighbors in Georgia whose jaws dropped when they saw each other at an atheist gathering. Each had assumed that the other was a good, God-fearing Baptist.
"They were afraid to speak out," she said, "because they didn't want to be stigmatized."
Gaylor recommends looking online for atheist support groups in your area and to search for related terms as well: agnostic, freethought, skeptic and nonbeliever.
It's no fun debating fundamentalists
Bart Ehrman doesn't seem like the kind of guy who backs down from a fight.
The University of North Carolina scholar often seeks them out, regularly debating the Bible and early Christianity with evangelicals and other experts.
But Ehrman told the atheists gathered in Raleigh not to bother arguing with fundamentalists.
"You can't convince a fundamentalist that he or she is wrong," he said. Their theology is a closed system, according to Ehrman, and their social bonds with fellow fundamentalists are too tightly knit to admit any wiggle room.
"You can point to any contradiction in the Bible and it just doesn't matter. They will either find some way to reconcile it or say that even if they don't understand it, God does."
Technically, the term fundamentalist refers to a movement of 20th-century Protestants who rejected modernity and clung to a literal interpretation of the Bible.
But Ehrman has a different definition: "Someone who is no fun, too much damn, and not enough mental."
People will think you worship Satan
Many Americans don't actually know any professed atheists, according to surveys - which means they often seem to assume the worst about them.
Fewer than half of Americans say they'd vote for an atheist politician; a similar number say they wouldn't want their children to marry a nonbeliever. A recent study also showed that businesses in the South are more likely to discriminate against atheist job candidates.
"I don't know what they think we are, Satanists or baby eaters or who knows what," activist Todd Stiefel told the atheists gathered in Raleigh, "but it's kind of scary."
A recent survey conducted for Stiefel's new "Openly Secular" campaign found that 20% of Americans can't even define atheism. Far more don't know what "humanist," "freethinker" or "agnostic" means.
Behold, the six types of atheists
Based on "It Gets Better" and other gay rights campaigns, "Openly Secular" hopes to counter that ignorance by asking atheists to share stories online about their lives and beliefs.
"What we're really trying to do is humanize us," Stiefel said. "Frankly, most of the hate and distrust comes from misunderstanding about who we are."
You don't have to convince your friends, family and neighbors to accept all of your views, the atheist activist said. You just have to get them to accept you.
Sometimes it's better to stay in the closet
After secular conferences like the one here Raleigh, many nonbelievers get so jazzed that they rush home and blurt out ... "Guess, what? I'm an ATHEIST!!!"
That can be a really bad idea, says Sarah Morehead, executive director of Recovering From Religion.
It may help the atheist movement as a whole to share your lack of faith with friends and family. But it's not always the best - or the safest - move for you, she says.
Recovering From Religion's online support groups are filled with stories about people who lost their jobs, their kids or their spouses after coming out as atheist, Morehead says.
"It's heartbreaking. People don't realize how big a difference expressing their nonbelief can make."
Recovering From Religion recommends having a plan in place before coming out as atheist.
"If you decide you're a nonbeliever," Morehead says, "you're still going to be a nonbeliever in a year."
The group's own 10.5-step plan includes creating a support network, declining to get into debates and preparing yourself for a "religious breakup" with friends and family. (The half-step assures budding nonbelievers they don't have to be experts on atheism and points them toward educational resources.)
Don't be the 'office atheist'
Candace Gorham says her close family is accepting of her atheism - but she's not completely "out" at work yet, and doesn't know if she wants to be.
Gorham, who was raised in the black church, said religion is deeply embedded in the lives of many Southern African-Americans, and the borders between private and public spirituality – or lack thereof – often blur.
"I work for a black-owned company, and most of my supervisors are black females, and it's just sort of OK for everybody to talk about God, or offer to pray for you," says Gorham.
The 33-year-old is author of a new book called "The Ebony Exodus Project," about black women leaving the church, which has pushed Gorham herself to become more public about being an atheist.
Recently, a co-worker told Gorham she had seen her talking about being an atheist on Roland Martin's television show.
"I was like, Oh my God, shhh don't tell anybody!"
A mental-health counselor who works with children, Gorham worries that people will stop referring clients to her once they find out she's a nonbeliever.
According to a survey Stiefel presented in Raleigh, more than 50% of Americans believe atheist teachers and day-care employees - people who, like Gorham, work with children - are likely to face discrimination at work.
She knows it's only a matter of time until more of her office mates find out.
"It's getting to a place where I don't have a choice. I'm just going to have to be comfortable with it - but it does concern me."
The Internet is your frenemy
A co-worker isn't the only person who saw Gorham talking about atheism on television.
Her aunt read about the Roland Martin interview online, which led Gorham's mother to call and ask if she is really an atheist.
The conversation went well, Gorham says, and her mother understands and respects her beliefs. But the unexpected disclosure shows why many atheists cover their Internet tracks, even as they increasingly look for like-minded communities online.
Gorham says she used to delete her browsing history on her laptop after watching atheist debates and lectures online lest her husband or other family members find out her faith was wavering.
"I was still early in my deconversion and I wasn't sure how he would perceive it," said the Greensboro, North Carolina, native.
Others here for the conference said they keep two separate Facebook pages, one for friends and family and one for their secular communities.
"Facebook is my happy place," says one middle-aged woman who made a nearly seven-hour drive to Raleigh from Crossville, Tennessee.
The woman, who didn't want to be identified, teaches English as a second language at public schools. She said most of her neighbors and co-workers are Christians.
"Crossville is a small Bible Belt community with churches on every corner," she said, "and everything shuts down on Sunday except for Wal-Mart and the hospital."
Most co-workers assume she's Christian. But she said she joins as many atheist groups online as she can and keeps an anonymous Facebook page called "Within Reason."
One recent post asks people to click "like" if they've ever been unfriended because of an atheism-themed status update.
Some people take Bible-thumping literally
Adults may face more real-life repercussions for coming out as atheist in the Bible Belt, but that doesn't mean kids have an easy ride.
Kalei Wilson, 15, said she lost friends after trying to start a secular student club at Pisgah High School in Canton, North Carolina, and someone used a Bible to destroy her science project, leaving the holy book on her smashed model of the universe.
The blue-haired, nose-pierced freshman says she's not the only atheist at her high school, but most of them are closeted.
"I didn't want to come out at first," Wilson says, "but in order to start the club I had to."
In exchange for her openness, Wilson says, some students mutter "Jesus loves you" as she walks down the hall, and she regularly receives text messages with the greeting, "Hey, Satan."
"I've lost friends because of it," the teenager says of her atheism, "but they're not real friends if that's what they do."
Have a sense of humor
For all the heartbreaking stories, if was there was a soundtrack to the conference in Raleigh, it would include a lot of laughter.
I got the sense that the atheists and freethinkers here had been storing their sharpest religion jokes for weeks, preparing for the day when they would find an appreciative audience at last.
"I've been living in the South for 13 years," says Pat Meller, who came to Raleigh from nearby Greensboro, "and I've had to watch my tongue for just as long."
So for two days, Meller and her kindred spirits cut loose.
They quipped about the folly of prayer, bought bumper-stickers calling the Bible a "Grim Fairy Tale," and wore T-shirts proclaiming their belief in life before death.
Harry Shaughnessy, president of the Triangle Freethought Society, played the cut-up emcee for much of the weekend.
"For every activist-oriented event we have, we want to have three to five things that are just fun," says Shaughnessy, whose group holds regular "Heathen Happy Hours" and meets for barbecues in each other's homes.
At one point, the youthful 44-year-old donned a crown and a form-fitting, skin-colored costume to bestow Freedom From Religion's "Emperor Has No Clothes" award on Steifel for his activism.
Perhaps appropriately for an atheist event, Shaughnessy's get-up left little to the imagination.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/24/atheists-in-the-bible-belt-a-survival-guide/?hpt=hp_c2/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc#t=176 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc#t=176)
Quote from: Exterminator on June 26, 2014, 01:31:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc#t=176 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc#t=176)
Now lay your hand upon the bible and repeat after me. On my honor I will tell the truth, the whole truth, so help me god. :haha: :haha: How does that work in all court cases. :haha:
Do you think the five Catholic Supreme Court judges who ruled for Hobby Lobby voted their religious conviction. :rant: I would like to see five Atheist on the court, it would be better than having five Christians or five Catholics. :mad: Now let us :pray: :preach: :pope:
And to think the Christians didn't want John Kennedy for president because he was a Catholic. But it's all right to have 5 Catholics on the court. :angry:
bigot
Quote from: The Troll on July 09, 2014, 10:42:06 PM
And to think the Christians didn't want John Kennedy for president because he was a Catholic.
Did you move to Colorado so you can smoke dope legally? Man Troll..........I really wonder about you...
Quote from: The Troll on July 09, 2014, 10:42:06 PM
Do you think the five Catholic Supreme Court judges who ruled for Hobby Lobby voted their religious conviction. :rant: I would like to see five Atheist on the court, it would be better than having five Christians or five Catholics. :mad: Now let us :pray: :preach: :pope:
And to think the Christians didn't want John Kennedy for president because he was a Catholic. But it's all right to have 5 Catholics on the court. :angry:
Actually there are 6 Supreme Court Justices who happen be Catholic.
Other than that, this is all I have to say:
Burt Bacharach –
What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone.
Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last till the end of time.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.
Lord, we don't need another meadow
There are cornfields and wheat fields enough to grow
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine
Oh listen, lord, if you want to know.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.
No, not just for some, oh, but just for everyone.
:music1: :happy:
Quote from: libby on July 10, 2014, 03:49:05 PM
Actually there are 6 Supreme Court Justices who happen be Catholic.
Hard to argue with more love, huh libby... :)
Hey Troll....the other three are Jewish...fyi.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 10, 2014, 11:55:04 AM
bigot
Henry I resent you calling me an bigot. You are the finest example of a BIGOT. You are selfish, self centered, you don't have a Jesus bone in your body, yet you claim to be a "Christian", I know Christians, you"re no Christian. :finger2:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 10, 2014, 04:30:24 PM
Hard to argue with more love, huh libby... :)
Hey Troll....the other three are Jewish...fyi.
So what, they haven't made the mistakes your Republican Catholic judges have made in the last few years. Wake up boy. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 10, 2014, 03:36:20 PM
Did you move to Colorado so you can smoke dope legally? Man Troll..........I really wonder about you...
Go check your history books boy. :doh: Your mother was changing your dirty dippers. when Kennedy was running for president. :yes: :rolleyes: If you check your great Christian leaders was afraid the John Kennedy would let the Pope :pope: run America. :yes: And again you have proved you don't know shit, Bird Boy. What a shame you are. :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: How much dope do you smoke every day.
:cube: <---- Henry
Quote from: The Troll on July 13, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
Henry I resent you calling me an bigot. You are the finest example of a BIGOT. You are selfish, self centered, you don't have a Jesus bone in your body, yet you claim to be a "Christian", I know Christians, you"re no Christian. :finger2:
Resent all you want.....look up the definition of a bigot and your picture will be there right next to it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 14, 2014, 08:05:51 AM
Resent all you want.....look up the definition of a bigot and your picture will be there right next to it.
Dear Mr. No Bigotry in my heart Hawk. What about having five Muslims on American Supreme Court, Bird Boy. I know a good Christian like you would be all for it. :haha: :rotfl:
Quote from: The Troll on July 14, 2014, 01:38:57 PM
Dear Mr. No Bigotry in my heart Hawk. What about having five Muslims on American Supreme Court, Bird Boy. I know a good Christian like you would be all for it. :haha: :rotfl:
If they honor our Constitution, it doesn't mater WHO is on the courts.........
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 14, 2014, 01:59:50 PM
If they honor our Constitution, it doesn't mater WHO is on the courts.........
You know damn well that you are lying though your teeth. :liar2: :repub: Talk about a bullshitter. :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/v/8r-e2NDSTuE
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 10, 2014, 03:36:20 PM
Did you move to Colorado so you can smoke dope legally? Man Troll..........I really wonder about you...
I have never smoked any dope, :yes: But you at the age you are, I'd bet you have smoked dope and maybe snorted some coke. :yes: :wink: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on August 17, 2014, 07:49:47 PM
I have never smoked any dope, :yes: But you at the age you are, I'd bet you have smoked dope and maybe snorted some coke. :yes: :wink: :biggrin:
Nope, not me. Never even smoked a cigarette in my life.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 18, 2014, 08:13:32 AM
Nope, not me. Never even smoked a cigarette in my life.
Then you must walk on water. Let us pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: :ogod:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/10612549_762165883841436_5353336582863102129_n_zpscdaf4c1d.jpg) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/10612549_762165883841436_5353336582863102129_n_zpscdaf4c1d.jpg.html)
;D
I thought about starting a thread called RELIGION because the following is not about GOD. It is about RELIGION. But, in spite of the header, so is this topic (one of these days I may try to read it all). As for this story, it's a doozy!
Rabbi Took His Students to Bath
The Washington Post
October 22, 2014
Crime
Alarm grows over news that rabbi accused of voyeurism
Towson University Office Searched
Assistant says she helped at least 6 try the ritual
by Peter Hermann
Police searched a D.C. rabbi's office at Towson University on Tuesday as students and campus officials expressed growing alarm over news that the rabbi, who was a professor there, took students on field trips to his Georgetown synagogue and invited them to use a ritual bath where he is now accused of secretly recording women.
Students in two of Barry Freundel's religious classes said on Tuesday that the professor who replaced the suspended rabbi let students vent and that in back-to-back sessions, several said they either had been invited to shed their clothes and use the bath, called a mikvah, and had declined, or knew classmates who had participated.
"It was very emotional, confusing, frustrating," said Jenna Taylor, a 22-year-old majoring in health-care management, describing her class on faith perspectives in medical history now being taught by Avram Reisner, a rabbi and theologian from the Baltimore area. Freundel began teaching at the school in 1989.
A woman who had helped Freundel with the ritual bath from late 2013 through May said she assisted at least a half-dozen Towson University students as they showered and immersed themselves in the mikvah as part of the field trips. The woman said she is in contact with D.C. police.
The slowly emerging information, much of it from women who say they are frightened or embarrassed to come forward, could expand the victim base as police continue to collect statements, meet with possible victims, and examine cameras, recordings and files — many of them deleted — that were seized at the rabbi's home, synagogue and adjacent bathhouse. The university's spokesman, Ray Feldmann, confirmed that police searched Freundel's office in the College of Liberal Arts building.
Rabbi Barry Freundel is seen at Kesher Israel Congregation in Georgetown in this file photo. (Michael Lutzky/The Washington Post)
Thus far, the 62-year-old Freundel, arrested last week, has been charged with six counts of voyeurism, all concerning incidents within the past several months, although police say in court documents that they suspect the recording to be more widespread. One woman has told The Washington Post that she saw a clock, in which Freundel had allegedly installed a camera, in the bath area as far back as 2012. Police have given no indication, at least in public, that Towson students were recorded. Two meetings with concerned congregants, sex-crime prosecutors and D.C. Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier have been closed to media.
D.C. police have declined to comment, as they did again Tuesday, on whether any women beyond the six referred to in the criminal complaint have been identified, but they are encouraging anyone who used the bath to come forward. The U.S. attorney's office also declined to comment.
Freundel is free from jail pending a preliminary hearing Nov. 12. Reisner, who has a doctorate in the Talmud and Rabbinics from the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York and a master's in bioethics from the University of Pennsylvania, said he spent most of his time in class Tuesday getting to know the students and understanding the curriculum. He said he allowed students to talk about what happened and that most were outraged.
"You already know that some students were invited to go into the mikvah," Reisner said, adding that his students did not indicate that they had accepted the invitation. He would not elaborate further on the class discussion.
One student in Reisner's class, Jonathan Munshaw, the editor of the campus newspaper, described his honors seminar on Judeo-Christian medical ethics as an exercise in anger and disbelief. He said three female students told classmates that they had been invited to the ritual bath in a previous year but declined. But he said they said they knew as many as 15 students who had been invited and accepted.
Munshaw said that several students broke down in tears, one fled the room and another indicated that her parents were seeking legal counsel. He declined to name the students who spoke.
The student paper, the Towerlight, reported Monday night that Nicole Coniglio, a Towson senior, was among the students invited to the bath. She declined but said two classmates accepted. "He proposed it as a special opportunity, something that you wouldn't be able to participate in every day," she told the newspaper.
The woman who said she helped with the mikvah said she at first thought the field trips were helpful and agreed to talk to the students about her own conversion. The woman spoke on the condition that she not be identified because of sensitivities around the case and the pending criminal investigation.
The woman said she helped Towson students undress for the shower, taken before the ritual bath. She said she trusted Freundel that this was accepted. "He was the authority," she said. "Nobody questioned it. These students drove all the way from Towson to see this and learn more about it."
The woman said she noticed the clock and a fan at times in the shower. Police said in a search warrant that in addition to the clock, that they found a manual for a fan with a hidden camera in Freundel's bedroom at his home. The woman said she did not know whether any of the students under her watch were recorded, although she fears now that they were.
Feldmann, the university spokesman, said officials are encouraging students to talk with people with whom they feel comfortable and have passed along contact numbers for campus police, D.C. police and prosecutors. "There are a lot of moving pieces," he said.
The university has acknowledged that Freundel took his students to Kesher Israel Congregation in Georgetown, but Feldmann said that officials were not told of the trips and that they were unauthorized. "That would have been over the line and inappropriate for a professor teaching a class here," he said.
Freundel, a modern Orthodox, is one of the country's best-known advocates for converts and has fought Israel to recognize more conversions in the United States. The ritual bath is used primarily by Jewish women and people converting to the religion.
On Tuesday, The Washington Post reported that a national rabbinical board investigated Freundel in 2012 after female converts' complaints of inappropriate behavior.
The Rabbinical Council of America questioned Freundel's policy of asking those preparing for conversion to take "practice dunks" in the bath, which they said has no basis in Jewish law and is not required.
Coniglio, the Towson student, told the Towerlight that she believed Freundel "wanted students to use the mikvah for the experience," although she stressed that she never felt pressured after she declined.
"He basically said that not all Orthodox synagogues have [a mikvah], so it was kind of a rarity," Coniglio told the student paper. "He told us he was instrumental in getting it to his synagogue. He was proud of it. He proposed it as a special opportunity, something that you wouldn't be able to participate in every day."
Students on the tour also observed Freundel talk with women whom he was helping convert to Judaism, she said.
After Freundel's arrest, Coniglio told the paper she was "completely, completely shocked."
Michelle Boorstein and Julie Tate contributed to this report.
www.washingtonpost.com
Nothing like a church to bring out the sexual sickos.
Quote from: Locutus on October 22, 2014, 12:21:25 PM
Nothing like a church to bring out the sexual sickos.
It proves that there is no god to smite the perverts in the Christian Church or any other religion. :wink: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on October 23, 2014, 07:19:43 PM
It proves that there is no god to smite the perverts in the Christian Church or any other religion. :wink: :biggrin:
Nah. Nothing to do with God. It proves nothing other than what we already know -- some people have stronger sex drives than others, and denying that natural instinct for whatever reason only intensifies it.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10361498_10205007816386166_5310147174700650895_n.jpg?oh=ff246fc2fe4741b8ad4b1295debdd93a&oe=54E2B7F1&__gda__=1424311444_efc5d9e4670d0e4e7bd1d11abf68a35a)
The above was captioned:
"Dear people that believe in miracles more than medicine and science:
Please stop going to the doctor, wearing seat belts, using electricity, etc. etc. Instead, please rely on prayer to keep you safe and healthy.
That way, you can remove yourselves from the gene pool and increase the average IQ of America by at least 20 points.
Thanks,
Rational, non-crazy people."
:biggrin:
Sad thing is, it's very true.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 17, 2014, 02:29:57 PM
:yes:
Until they remove themselves from the gene pool, I'm all for canceling their right to vote. ;D
:biggrin: :yes:
(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/395630_506628766068771_1193209119_n.jpg?oh=26e6a55b046e2a5e314988f3fbc9d2a8&oe=551FFC68)
Quote from: Locutus on December 01, 2014, 04:53:08 PM
:biggrin: :yes:
(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/395630_506628766068771_1193209119_n.jpg?oh=26e6a55b046e2a5e314988f3fbc9d2a8&oe=551FFC68)
Hahahahahhaha!!!!
The Saturday Washington Post features a RELIGION page, which features many points of view. Here's one of today's topics -- which I found very interesting.
The Washington Pos
BY DAVID GIBSON
— Religion News Service
Bewildered by the star of Bethlehem?
A planetary expert at the Vatican embarks on a voyage to show how faith melds with science
New York -- With Christmas just around the corner, Brother Guy Consolmagno gets a lot of questions this time of year about the star of Bethlehem that led the Magi to Jesus in the manger.
Consolmagno is an astronomer — a planetary scientist for the Vatican observatory, in fact — who specializes in asteroids and meteorites, the very sort that may well have been the famous "star" described in the Gospel of Matthew.
"It's fun speculation," Consolmagno said, smiling through a graying beard while sitting on a bench in Central Park on an unseasonably warm afternoon. "It's fascinating to realize that there actually are a couple of quite plausible things it could be.
"But what's even more interesting to me is that this story was included, of all the stories that Matthew might have included," he said, growing animated as he does when diving into his twin vocations of science and theology. "Whether it's something he heard from Mary, or whether it's something he made up, why was it included?"
If those are the sort of musings you enjoy, and a level of ambiguity you can handle, you'll like the book Consolmagno has written with a fellow Jesuit, the Rev. Paul Mueller, who heads the Jesuit community at Castel Gandolfo, a hilltop town near Rome where the Vatican's main telescope is located.
Their book is titled "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?" — another question Consolmagno is asked a lot at his speeches and media appearances and one that Pope Francis — a fellow Jesuit and a chemist — has posed as part of his focus on Catholic inclusivity.
Consolmagno's short answer is, "Yes" — but "only if she asks!"
The longer answer is spelled out in the book, but Consolmagno and Mueller are really aiming their lens at a bigger goal: to show how people of faith can also believe in science.
"God is reason. If you reject reason, you are rejecting God," Consolmagno said.
Unlike many apologists, Consolmagno isn't fixated on those "New Atheists" like Richard Dawkins who wield science like a cudgel to bash religion and believers.
"I don't mind someone disagreeing with my views on religion," he said. "But I'd like to have a sense of mutual respect. If you think that what a lot of people believe is nonsense, then maybe you don't understand what it is they believe."
But such debates are mostly a sideline for Consolmagno.
"The thing that really bothers me," he said, "is the creeping fundamentalism among Catholics who don't know their own faith and who are desperately trying to do the right thing and to be faithful believers, thinking that they have to sacrifice their reason to follow God. And that is exactly the opposite of what God wants."
Preaching that old-time Catholicism of faith and reason is what Consolmagno will now be doing almost full time.
For two decades, he was curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Castel Gandolfo, one of the largest in the world, and he wrote scientific books and delivered research papers. Last month, he was given the Carl Sagan Medal, one of the most prestigious awards within planetary science.
Yet Consolmagno has always seen himself as a teacher as muchas a researcher, and now he will be able to educate people even as he raises money in his new post as head of the Vatican Observatory Foundation. He'll be based in Arizona and will travel much of the year.
The goal is to make the church and the public more aware of the scientific work the Vatican does. ( Who even knows that the pope has an observatory, and why?) It's also to teach Catholics about their own intellectual tradition.
Although Consolmagno happily describes himself as an introvert — "pretty much a nerd," is how he also puts it — he says it's easier for him to talk to 2,000 people than to deal with individuals. Indeed, that's why he became a Jesuit brother rather than a priest who might have to tend to a parish.
Consolmagno was born in 1952 in a well-to-do suburb of Detroit. His immigrant family placed a high value on education and faith. He loved science as a kid, and, as was true of many young people in those days, his imagination was fired by the space race in the 1960s and the moon landing — the kind of efforts he believes we need to invest in today.
Space travel "is the one thing that draws us all together," he said, noting that both the Vatican and the U.S. government spend about 1 percent of their budgets on astronomy-related science.
"This kind of curiosity transcends momentary human conflicts and gives us a sense of perspective," he said.
Consolmagno continues to be a sci-fi buff, although he prefers oldschool books to movies. He did, however, love the recent space epic "Interstellar," watching it in an Imax theater with a high school buddy and a chum from MIT. The science was pretty good, he thought, and not even central to the film: "The word religion is never mentioned, because it's everywhere. It is entirely about dealing with the transcendent."
He started out at Jesuit-run Boston College but soon decided he didn't want to be a Jesuit. "I realized I'm much better at dealing with numbers and factoids," he says. So he transferred to MIT and was pondering academic stardom in planetary science when his Catholic conscience called again. He joined the Peace Corps and worked in Kenya for two years, teaching physics and astronomy.
"People in Africa are curious about the stars, too," he said. "If you deny them the chance to go 'Wow!' looking at stars, you are saying they're not fully human. They are hungry for that, because human beings are hungry for that."
When he returned to the United States, he found a satisfying teaching job at Lafayette College in Pennsylvania, but it wasn't enough. He wanted — needed — to "stand for something bigger than myself."
Consolmagno had just ended a long and rocky relationship and realized that he was better on his own. So his old Jesuit calling beckoned, only this time as a brother, and by 1993 he found himself a fully vowed Jesuit, in Italy, and working for the Vatican. He wasn't teaching, but it wasn't a bad gig, to say the least.
Now, in his new incarnation, he hopes to be able to use what spare time he has for research, especially into the asteroid Vesta, which he wrote about years ago. He'll put the popular books on hold for a while, although he still hopes to test that hypothesis about baptizing an extraterrestrial.
But his main job is to ease the fears of fellow believers who worry that science undermines faith.
"I don't know how it could," he said before heading off to another interview. "Because my faith is already full of doubts. And the doubts have nothing to do with what I've learned is science. They have to do with what I've learned in myself. And in some ways, the doubts are the strongest proof I have of my faith.
"If there wasn't a God," he said, "why would I be so worried about there not being one?"
www.washingtonpost.com
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Ho ho hell!!! :grinch:
_______________________
A woman was charged with criminal mischief Tuesday after the Satanic Temple's holiday diorama in the Florida Capitol was damaged.
"Susan Hemeryck, 54, of Tallahassee, entered the Capitol at 11:23 a.m. and told an on-duty police officer that "she was sorry and had to take the Satanic display," according to a Florida Department of Law Enforcement probable-cause affidavit.
When the woman was advised not to remove the temple's fallen-angel display from its table, the affidavit said Hemeryck "reached forward and began to rip apart the display."
The first-floor display is set up in the middle of the hallway leading toward the offices of Attorney General Pam Bondi and Gov. Rick Scott, feet from a post where Capitol police work at metal detectors.
Lucien Greaves, spokesman for the Satanic Temple, said the group may leave the display as is.
"Even if it wasn't fixable I would be for leaving the smashed remains there for the rest of the time as a testament to the intolerance of some people," Greaves said. The state Department of Management Services has imposed a new seven-day timeline for items put up in the rotunda. The temple's diorama went up Monday.
The display includes the phrase "Happy holidays from the Satanic Temple" atop a diorama of an angel falling into hell. The temple, which doesn't really worship the devil, argues that government should either bar all displays from religious groups at public facilities or allow all groups to display their beliefs, Greaves said.
The criminal mischief charge is a second-degree misdemeanor.
The FDLE valued the diorama at less than $200.
A year ago, the display was barred from the Capitol because it was deemed "grossly offensive" by the Department of Management Services. However, the display won approval this year after threats of a lawsuit.
The display is the latest in a series of irreverent holiday displays from groups motivated by the state's acceptance of Christian nativity scenes the past two years.
Among the offerings has been a Festivus pole made from beer cans and a dressed-up pile of rope to signify the deity from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/sfl-satanic-display-vandalized-arrest-story.html#navtype=outfit
American Taliban! :biggrin:
Yep! But none of that shit should really be in the capitol building in the first place. :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on December 24, 2014, 11:53:02 AM
Ho ho hell!!! :grinch:
_______________________
A woman was charged with criminal mischief Tuesday after the Satanic Temple's holiday diorama in the Florida Capitol was damaged.
"Susan Hemeryck, 54, of Tallahassee, entered the Capitol at 11:23 a.m. and told an on-duty police officer that "she was sorry and had to take the Satanic display," according to a Florida Department of Law Enforcement probable-cause affidavit.
When the woman was advised not to remove the temple's fallen-angel display from its table, the affidavit said Hemeryck "reached forward and began to rip apart the display."
The first-floor display is set up in the middle of the hallway leading toward the offices of Attorney General Pam Bondi and Gov. Rick Scott, feet from a post where Capitol police work at metal detectors.
Lucien Greaves, spokesman for the Satanic Temple, said the group may leave the display as is.
"Even if it wasn't fixable I would be for leaving the smashed remains there for the rest of the time as a testament to the intolerance of some people," Greaves said. The state Department of Management Services has imposed a new seven-day timeline for items put up in the rotunda. The temple's diorama went up Monday.
The display includes the phrase "Happy holidays from the Satanic Temple" atop a diorama of an angel falling into hell. The temple, which doesn't really worship the devil, argues that government should either bar all displays from religious groups at public facilities or allow all groups to display their beliefs, Greaves said.
The criminal mischief charge is a second-degree misdemeanor.
The FDLE valued the diorama at less than $200.
A year ago, the display was barred from the Capitol because it was deemed "grossly offensive" by the Department of Management Services. However, the display won approval this year after threats of a lawsuit.
The display is the latest in a series of irreverent holiday displays from groups motivated by the state's acceptance of Christian nativity scenes the past two years.
Among the offerings has been a Festivus pole made from beer cans and a dressed-up pile of rope to signify the deity from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/sfl-satanic-display-vandalized-arrest-story.html#navtype=outfit
:haha: :haha: I'll bet the devil made her do it. :haha: :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on December 24, 2014, 07:59:48 PM
:haha: :haha: I'll bet the devil made her do it. :haha: :haha:
:rotfl: Either that or she gave ole' Jeebus and early birthday present by casting out the devil from the Florida Capitol building. :yes:
Quote from: Y on December 24, 2014, 03:12:59 PM
American Taliban! :biggrin:
Please change that Mr. Y, to Christian Taliban. Now let us :pray: :preach: :pope:
Imagine that! A Christian telling a lie; and a big lie it was.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven" never actually went.
Alex Malarkey, a young boy who coauthored a book with his father first published in 2010 about going to heaven and returning to earth, wrote an open letter to Christian publishers retracting his story.
In 2004, Malarkey and his father, who is a Christian therapist, were in a bad car accident that left the 6-year-old boy paralyzed and in a coma.
According to the book's Amazon page: "When Alex awoke from a coma two months later, he had an incredible story to share. Of events at the accident scene and in the hospital while he was unconscious. Of the angels who took him through the gates of Heaven itself. And, most amazing of all ... of meeting and talking with Jesus."
The letter that Alex, who is now 16, wrote to publishers said he made the whole thing up: "I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to. They should read the Bible, which is enough."
Two major Christian bookstores, Lifeway and Tyndale House, have announced plans to pull the books from stores.
In April, Alex's mother, Beth Malarkey, wrote on her blog that the book was untrue. She also implied that Alex had not received the proceeds from the book sales:
It is both puzzling and painful to watch the book The Boy who Came Back from Heaven to not only continue to sell, but to continue, for the most part, to not be questioned ... The ones making money from the book are NOT the ones staying up through the night, struggling for their breath, or were they the ones at six years old, waking up unable to move or breathe and in a strange place after last remember seeing a car coming right at the car he was riding in.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-recants-everything-2015-1#ixzz3P6nmXDBy
Okay, I should know better than even voicing my opinion on this subject, but here I go.
If this thread was called "Christians Suck", I probably could go along with it. I hate the label "Christian". Too many people adopt that name, then they really don't care if they try to live up to any sort of "standard" that comes along with it.
I stand firm behind "God". I think Christians is also a very, very good thing, but too many people attach themselves to it, and think that is all that is required.
How can you put someone down, who strives to live as Christ did?
I 100% understand the stigma it has, and the millions of assholes who shove this belief down others throats, when they aren't even CLOSE to living the "life" themselves.
This "lie" this kid told, is no different than anyone else who has lied, to gain profit. Atheists do the same thing.
A liar is a a liar. PERIOD.
I quit going to my Church because of idiots. I don't think all church's are bad, I don't think Christians are bad. Just people who YELL they are, but don't come close to representing the lifestyle that is laid out by Christ.
anyway, just felt like rambling a tad on this issue.
An Atheist Super Bowl commercial! :rotfl:
https://www.youtube.com/v/axFyDGPSuDU
That's funny as hell. It certainly doesn't hurt that she's also smokin' hot! :drool1: :drool1:
:biggrin:
This increases critical thinking, free thought, logic, reason, and creates the ability to filter out bullshit.
--- Dr. Logic (a.k.a. some smokin' hot babe on the Internet.)
:rotfl:
Yep; she's a cutie! :wink:
Man could ya'll ever use some of that.
Quote from: Locutus on February 12, 2015, 08:57:06 PM
An Atheist Super Bowl commercial! :rotfl:
https://www.youtube.com/v/axFyDGPSuDU
(http://www.jcfacility.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/you-cant-handle-the-truth.jpg)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10997001_647382422074459_5547269163185371858_n.jpg?oh=cfd88ee5f2be358d352d3d205f7f1b28&oe=5594C81A)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11042990_10205526280503707_3054933579384496067_n.jpg?oh=929e783021f63b3b4a1ed1956fd36d61&oe=5580C7F9&__gda__=1435704084_b6fee4ae8449e2c781a499eab8e0dc40)
Sorry this was just too good to pass up. :biggrin:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/Bike_zps21m3ov8n.jpg)
:biggrin:
That's exactly why I've always posited 'Sola Fide' as a bankrupt doctrine.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10431669_10152691898348803_2092194170286431648_n.jpg?oh=a53a08a59245d761b9ef4bf63e4bd489&oe=55B094FC)
Spot on! :yes:
You just single handedly proved you do not understand what it is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. None of those things do myself or most of my Christian friends agree with. Another example of liberal hyperbole!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 29, 2015, 06:09:04 PM
You just single handedly proved you do not understand what it is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
I also do not have a personal relationship with Humpty Dumpty, Little Red Riding Hood or any of the three little pigs.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 29, 2015, 06:35:21 PM
I also do not have a personal relationship with Humpty Dumpty, Little Red Riding Hood or any of the three little pigs.
And I couldn't be more proud of you, but you have no clue as to what good, decent folks think, especially when you post something like you did. Flat out hateful, liberal be. 😃
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 29, 2015, 06:09:04 PM
You just single handedly proved you do not understand what it is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. None of those things do myself or most of my Christian friends agree with. Another example of liberal hyperbole!
You don't have a personal relationship with him either. You just think you do. :wink:
Ya know, just being a good person and not being hateful and judgemental toward other people can, in some instances, be considered being christian. I am not religious in the true sense but I do believe in doing good for people and am non judgemental of others lifestyles or beliefs. I may not agree with them but they have reasons to believe like they do just as I have reasons to believe like I do and you all do also. There are bad people and extremes on both sides of the coin, religious and non religious or atheiests, and agnostics. Why do you all insist on lumping people into a category and putting them all down. I just lost a good friend who was a great person and a true believer in God but she never pushed it on anyone and put no one down for their lifestyle or beliefs. She was in constant severe pain but drew strength toward the end from her belief so she could enjoy taking her grand kids places and doing things with them and not let her pain show.
Quote from: Locutus on March 29, 2015, 06:52:37 PM
You don't have a personal relationship with him either. You just think you do. :wink:
Wow, that is the epitome of liberal logic! And a big reason we have a society that is toilet. :yes:
BTW, not that it is anybodys business, but I haven't been to church on a regular basis for about five years. I am not a role model for Christian living, but I have a faith, that is strong as ever. I, have a very tight relationship with God. It sustains me through every day of my life. So, even though I respect your right to not believe, don't even try to think you know more about this world than I do. I have zero counts about the power of the Lord and what He has done in my life.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10985290_10153210346656178_1673773422689139881_n.jpg?oh=191c4d85914cabe58f3c76c969d29cf9&oe=55A8A946&__gda__=1437805739_deb37d96e456bd6e72db23556372c051)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 29, 2015, 07:26:03 PM
Wow, that is the epitome of liberal logic! And a big reason we have a society that is toilet. :yes:
I would suggest that we have a planet in the toilet because the majority of its inhabitants believe in stupid shit like their versions of the Sky Daddy.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 29, 2015, 07:26:03 PM
Wow, that is the epitome of liberal logic! And a big reason we have a society that is toilet. :yes:
...and BTW, that's the epitome of LOGIC. Logic is neither liberal nor conservative.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 29, 2015, 07:37:25 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10985290_10153210346656178_1673773422689139881_n.jpg?oh=191c4d85914cabe58f3c76c969d29cf9&oe=55A8A946&__gda__=1437805739_deb37d96e456bd6e72db23556372c051)
I bet that is highly scientific bullshit!
Quote from: Locutus on March 29, 2015, 07:40:33 PM
...and BTW, that's the epitome of LOGIC. Logic is neither liberal nor conservative.
And you have that right to think that because of the millions of Christians that gave their lives who started this nation, who have fought in wars to keep it that way, so if that is the way you want to honor those magnicant people, okay!
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11021212_892683704108355_481868450728627694_n.jpg?oh=d9dbfd87c60aac90d4385cc6ce89342d&oe=55A47117)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11041826_10200312734297529_5087422622318031036_n.jpg?oh=1d01caec4750db9f89bbd3191daaa3f0&oe=55BEAEA6)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11018842_10153216949436178_2528023138843056340_n.jpg?oh=b556270231082b3669ab2cc4da2ecfdf&oe=55AAD586)
:yes: :big grin:
That's exactly how I knew you would respond :yes:
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10994445_10203986086349620_6995452891982458650_n.jpg?oh=dfb8aafe225c2efd98e634fbeee64696&oe=55AEBC31)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 29, 2015, 07:44:11 PM
And you have that right to think that because of the millions of Christians that gave their lives who started this nation, who have fought in wars to keep it that way, so if that is the way you want to honor those magnicant people, okay!
WTF does any of this have to do with service members? That's not germane to any discussion along these lines.
Quote from: me on March 29, 2015, 07:08:38 PM
Ya know, just being a good person and not being hateful and judgemental toward other people can, in some instances, be considered being christian. I am not religious in the true sense but I do believe in doing good for people and am non judgemental of others lifestyles or beliefs. I may not agree with them but they have reasons to believe like they do just as I have reasons to believe like I do and you all do also. There are bad people and extremes on both sides of the coin, religious and non religious or atheiests, and agnostics. Why do you all insist on lumping people into a category and putting them all down. I just lost a good friend who was a great person and a true believer in God but she never pushed it on anyone and put no one down for their lifestyle or beliefs. She was in constant severe pain but drew strength toward the end from her belief so she could enjoy taking her grand kids places and doing things with them and not let her pain show.
Quote from: Locutus on March 29, 2015, 07:38:33 PM
I would suggest that we have a planet in the toilet because the majority of its inhabitants believe in stupid shit like their versions of the Sky Daddy.
Quote from: Locutus on March 29, 2015, 08:48:49 PM
WTF does any of this have to do with service members? That's not germane to any discussion along these lines.
That the vast majority of our service members ARE INDEED Christian.
Your comment
"I would suggest that we have a planet in the toilet because the majority of its inhabitants believe in stupid shit like their versions of the Sky Daddy." I suggest that the majority of this planets inhabitants you are talking about, are the very ones that have died saving your ass the right to say whatever stupid thing you want to say....and it was that "Sky Daddy" that allowed them to accomplish such a feat with faith.
It is germane to this discussion, but the bottom line is, it really doesn't mean squat, because you have your strong opinion, and I have mine. :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 08:51:48 AM
That the vast majority of our service members ARE INDEED Christian.
Fake Christians, virtually all of you. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on March 30, 2015, 10:08:05 AM
Fake Christians, virtually all of you. :rolleyes:
That is nothing more than your opinion.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 10:14:39 AM
That is nothing more than your opinion.
Well, you spew your intolerance here daily along with your lying and judgmental comments, all of which are in stark contrast to what your imaginary Jesus was supposed to have preached.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 30, 2015, 10:22:12 AM
Well, you spew your intolerance here daily along with your lying and judgmental comments, all of which are in stark contrast to what your imaginary Jesus was supposed to have preached.
There is another lie, do you have any examples, where I daily spew ANY intolerance on anyone? :confused:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 11:01:35 AM
There is another lie, do you have any examples, where I daily spew ANY intolerance on anyone? :confused:
Your judgmental attitude toward anyone different from you is pervasive.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 30, 2015, 11:11:33 AM
Your judgmental attitude toward anyone different from you is pervasive.
(https://www-techinasia.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/pot-and-kettle-350x166.jpg?1cb6c9)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 08:51:48 AM
That the vast majority of our service members ARE INDEED Christian.
Your comment "I would suggest that we have a planet in the toilet because the majority of its inhabitants believe in stupid shit like their versions of the Sky Daddy."
I suggest that the majority of this planets inhabitants you are talking about, are the very ones that have died saving your ass the right to say whatever stupid thing you want to say....and it was that "Sky Daddy" that allowed them to accomplish such a feat with faith.
It is germane to this discussion, but the bottom line is, it really doesn't mean squat, because you have your strong opinion, and I have mine. :yes:
Doesn't make any difference what their beliefs are HH. I don't give a fuck whether they're Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever. The fact that you're talking about service members is irrelevant to this discussion.
My position is backed up with
facts. The ideas of jealous gods and their chosen people have justified all KINDS atrocities from the ancient Aztecs right up until now with the similarly antiquated mindset of the American religious right.
1. Slavery
2. The Crusades
3. The Spanish Inquisition
4. The Holocaust
All the classics, are they not? Religion, and beliefs in a Sky Daddy, have been there every bloody step of the way.
We, as humans, would be far better off casting this kind of shit onto the ash heap of history where it rightly belongs.
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
Doesn't make any difference what their beliefs are HH. I don't give a fuck whether they're Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever. The fact that you're talking about service members is irrelevant to this discussion.
My position is backed up with facts. The ideas of jealous gods and their chosen people have justified all KINDS atrocities from the ancient Aztecs right up until now with the similarly antiquated mindset of the American religious right.
1. Slavery
2. The Crusades
3. The Spanish Inquisition
4. The Holocaust
All the classics, are they not? Religion, and beliefs in a Sky Daddy, have been there every bloody step of the way.
We, as humans, would be far better off casting this kind of shit onto the ash heap of history where it rightly belongs.
That is just YOUR opinion. I have a FACT for you though, MILLIONS and MILLIONS of wonderful, intelligent, kind, generous people will disagree with YOUR OPINION. That is all you have Locutus, an opinion. NOT a FACT.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 12:03:01 PM
That is just YOUR opinion. I have a FACT for you though, MILLIONS and MILLIONS of wonderful, intelligent, kind, generous people will disagree with YOUR OPINION. That is all you have Locutus, an opinion. NOT a FACT.
Not facts????? These aren't facts?? This is history Hank. It's not an opinion:
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
The ideas of jealous gods and their chosen people have justified all KINDS atrocities from the ancient Aztecs right up until now with the similarly antiquated mindset of the American religious right.
1. Slavery
2. The Crusades
3. The Spanish Inquisition
4. The Holocaust
Hell, if you don't like history, just look at the Middle East today. Religion and the "my god is better than your god" crap is still the root cause of what's going on there today. It's also the root cause of the legislation that we're talking about on the other thread. Whether you see it or not, religion breeds intolerance all the way around.
What we really need is a hell of a lot more anti-preachers, anti-faith based initiatives, anti-Mohammeds and anti-christs. We can no longer just stand around and let retarded children pummel themselves, and others, with stones and missiles.
Like it or not, the belief in a Sky Daddy is the vilest meme adults continue to pass on to their children.
BTW, every time you go pointing to "MILLIONS AND MILLIONS" of people to somehow validate your claims and lend credibility to your belief system, I'll remind you, as Y did just last week, that you're simply repeating an Appeal to Popularity (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) fallacy. Just because millions of people believe something doesn't make it true. I would have thought you would have at least learned that by now. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 12:34:59 PM
BTW, every time you go pointing to "MILLIONS AND MILLIONS" of people to somehow validate your claims and lend credibility to your belief system, I'll remind you, as Y did just last week, that you're simply repeating an Appeal to Popularity (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) fallacy. Just because millions of people believe something doesn't make it true. I would have thought you would have at least learned that by now. :wink:
Since he can't seem to grasp that simple concept and insists on clinging to the idea that something is true simply by the number of people who believe it, I wonder if he's prepared to accept that Christianity can't be true because more than twice as many people in the world don't believe in it as those who do?
I'm not saying that those events didn't happen. I'm saying that the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of excellent people of faith have fought and died in battles to assure our freedoms.
I can't help there are some bad Christians out there, but the vast majority of them have done good....for all of mankind, in the name of God.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 01:24:46 PM
I can't help there are some bad Christians out there, but the vast majority of them have done good....for all of mankind, in the name of God.
Kinda' like the ones applauding that discriminatory bill that was just passed in Indiana? Those kind of good ole' Christians? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on March 30, 2015, 01:19:50 PM
Since he can't seem to grasp that simple concept and insists on clinging to the idea that something is true simply by the number of people who believe it, I wonder if he's prepared to accept that Christianity can't be true because more than twice as many people in the world don't believe in it as those who do?
Of course not! But that is an excellent point.
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
Kinda' like the ones applauding that discriminatory bill that was just passed in Indiana? Those kind of good ole' Christians? :rolleyes:
You are proving the hyperbole that I was talking about. What you are saying is simply not true.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 01:34:03 PM
You are proving the hyperbole that I was talking about. What you are saying is simply not true.
I don't want to spread that conversation in with this one, but I addressed that on the other thread. Just look at the resumes of some of those people there at the signing ceremony. It's quite clear, by their very presence there, what that legislation is all about.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 01:24:46 PM
I'm saying that the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of excellent people of faith have fought and died in battles to assure our freedoms.
How many millions and please explain how you know what percentage of them were people of faith?
QuoteI can't help there are some bad Christians out there, but the vast majority of them have done good....for all of mankind, in the name of God.
This is absolute bullshit!
Ya'll are totally laughable. Lumping an entire group together, judging all by the acts of a few, and being hateful while doing it then turning around and accusing them of being the hateful ones. Typical liberal.
Quote from: me on March 30, 2015, 01:55:59 PM
Ya'll are totally laughable. Lumping an entire group together, judging all by the acts of a few, and being hateful while doing it then turning around and accusing them of being the hateful ones. Typical liberal.
The only ones I'm lumping together are the ones that believe in the Sky Daddy. Like I said above, I don't give a crap which book club to which they belong. Christians, Muslims, Hindus; all of them.
Religion is vile and it needs to go if we are to survive.
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 01:38:24 PM
I don't want to spread that conversation in with this one, but I addressed that on the other thread. Just look at the resumes of some of those people there at the signing ceremony. It's quite clear, by their very presence there, what that legislation is all about.
It is about religious liberties.....that is no secret.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 30, 2015, 01:45:48 PM
How many millions and please explain how you know what percentage of them were people of faith?
This is absolute bullshit!
WOW!! No need to continue this, because there is no reason too. You are never going to understand this. It isn't rocket science, just common sense.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 02:08:55 PM
It is about religious liberties.....that is no secret.
Liberty to discriminate against others. Checked those resumes yet?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 02:10:12 PM
WOW!! No need to continue this, because there is no reason too. You are never going to understand this. It isn't rocket science, just common sense.
So what you mean is that you're pulling "statistics" out of your ass. That was obvious when you said, "millions and millions," since only about 1.3 million have died in all of the wars we've been involved in since the Revolutionary War, more than half of those in the civil war when we were fighting against ourselves!
Quote from: Exterminator on March 30, 2015, 02:26:51 PM
So what you mean is that you're pulling "statistics" out of your ass. That was obvious when you said, "millions and millions," since only about 1.3 million have died in all of the wars we've been involved in since the Revolutionary War, more than half of those in the civil war when we were fighting against ourselves!
Sidetracking from the issue....your normal tactic. 1.3 million would be MILLIONS! wouldn't it? Throw in the other millions of Christians who have perished doing missionary work and giving millions of dollars to feed the poor and hungry.
FACT is, I am right on this. You can demonize Christians all you want, but there are MILLIONS who have selfless done good, that made this Country the great Country is once was....ALL BECAUSE of FAITH in God.
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 02:01:23 PM
The only ones I'm lumping together are the ones that believe in the Sky Daddy. Like I said above, I don't give a crap which book club to which they belong. Christians, Muslims, Hindus; all of them.
Religion is vile and it needs to go if we are to survive.
No, the bad ones in each group, inclucing athiests and agnostics, are the ones that need gone.
Quote from: me on March 30, 2015, 03:09:39 PM
No, the bad ones in each group, inclucing athiests and agnostics, are the ones that need gone.
I don't see too many atheists and agnostics going around bombing and shooting people. Nor do I see them trying to legislate their morality onto others. It's the Christians, the Muslims, and the Sky Daddy followers doing that.
Do you see something I don't?
Quote from: Locutus on March 30, 2015, 03:11:55 PM
I don't see too many atheists and agnostics going around bombing and shooting people. Nor do I see them trying to legislate their morality onto others. It's the Christians, the Muslims, and the Sky Daddy followers doing that.
Do you see something I don't?
How do you know? They just happen to mention it if the person is of a particular religion. I was raised a Protestant but am actually an agnostic so Protestant is what I would be tagged with and that would be wrong.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 30, 2015, 02:51:43 PM
Sidetracking from the issue....your normal tactic. 1.3 million would be MILLIONS! wouldn't it?
No, it would be million. You said millions and millions...I would understand that to be at least 4 million since one is a million and two or more are million
s.
QuoteThrow in the other millions of Christians who have perished doing missionary work and giving millions of dollars to feed the poor and hungry.
Again, you have nothing with which to substantiate this and they weren't protecting my freedom.
QuoteFACT is, I am right on this. You can demonize Christians all you want, but there are MILLIONS who have selfless done good, that made this Country the great Country is once was....ALL BECAUSE of FAITH in God.
Fact is, I've never seen a single one of you do a fucking thing that didn't benefit you directly so you can stuff your claims of goodness and altruism where the sun doesn't shine.
Quote from: me on March 30, 2015, 03:15:45 PM
How do you know? They just happen to mention it if the person is of a particular religion. I was raised a Protestant but am actually an agnostic so Protestant is what I would be tagged with and that would be wrong.
Doubtful. I was raised as a Catholic and no one would tag me with that label now (even if I do still have mad genuflecting skills! :biggrin: ).
Quote from: me on March 30, 2015, 03:15:45 PM
How do you know? They just happen to mention it if the person is of a particular religion. I was raised a Protestant but am actually an agnostic so Protestant is what I would be tagged with and that would be wrong.
An Agnostic is just another word for Atheist. :yes: An Agnostic is just afraid to say the word Atheist. :yes: Henry's god knows you're lying. :wink: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on March 31, 2015, 02:15:56 PM
An Agnostic is just another word for Atheist. :yes: An Agnostic is just afraid to say the word Atheist. :yes: Henry's god knows you're lying. :wink: :biggrin:
Nope. It is a basic mistake commonly made to ascribe interchangeability to the two terms, however call a true Atheist an Agnostic, and you might as well call them a bible thumper. . . :icon_twisted:
Agnostic : Means the individual holds a belief in a creator or higher authority within the universe, but not of the type of humankind's construction.
Atheist : Means one who holds zero belief in any creator, God, higher authority, or entity; human kind or of any other origin.
From a Christian perspective all Native Americans were truly "Agnostic" in that they did not believe in a single God, and at minimum did not believe in a way that comfortably nested with mainstream Christian beliefs. Most, if not all, believed in a higher-authority or authorities, of some type, however since it did not conform to common Christian dogma they were adjudicated "savages" and slaughtered into conformance.
My personal belief system, for the record, places me into the Agnostic category. I shun humankind's manufactured religiosity with extreme prejudice.
Quote from: me on March 30, 2015, 03:15:45 PM
How do you know? They just happen to mention it if the person is of a particular religion. I was raised a Protestant but am actually an agnostic so Protestant is what I would be tagged with and that would be wrong.
I doubt it as well.
I was raised a strict, fire and brimstone Southern Baptist, and baptized as such.
I converted to Catholicism as an adult, and was trained in the religion by the Chicago Archdiocese, and re-baptized as such.
I studied the Greek Orthodox Jewish religion and after a three year period considered converting to that religion.
I studied and obtained one of my degrees from a Christian University that required extensive Theological coursework as part of their degree program. (And graduated Cum Laude from that institution).
And yet, I remain agnostic despite it all. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 31, 2015, 05:33:05 PM
I doubt it as well.
I was raised a strict, fire and brimstone Southern Baptist, and baptized as such.
I converted to Catholicism as an adult, and was trained in the religion by the Chicago Archdiocese, and re-baptized as such.
I studied the Greek Orthodox Jewish religion and after a three year period considered converting to that religion.
I studied and obtained one of my degrees from a Christian University that required extensive Theological coursework as part of their degree program. (And graduated Cum Laude from that institution).
And yet, I remain agnostic despite it all. :icon_twisted:
But you would not be tagged as agnostic if you were to commit a serious and news worthy crime because of your extensive background with religion.
Quote from: me on March 31, 2015, 07:23:47 PM
But you would not be tagged as agnostic if you were to commit a serious and news worthy crime because of your extensive background with religion.
No. . . I'd be tagged as a murderer, thief, serial killer, etc. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on March 31, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
No. . . I'd be tagged as a murderer, thief, serial killer, etc. . .
If it made the story more sensational by saying you were raised as a Southern Babtist that is what you would be tagged before they would say you were an agnostic. There is no controversy in saying a person is an agnostic. Besides, as you pointed out to Troll, most people don't know what being agnostic really means. Fpr that matter how many people think an athiest is the same as a satanist?
Quote from: me on March 31, 2015, 07:31:54 PM
. . .Fpr that matter how many people think an athiest is the same as a satanist?
Every Christian in the modern world. :razz:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 31, 2015, 07:37:33 PM
Every Christian in the modern world. :razz:
:razz: Yer hopeless. LOL
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/t31.0-8/p180x540/10954867_863622740378879_5206984539716851509_o.png)
She probably used to be a scummy Presbyterian. :rotfl:
(https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t34.0-12/11124536_10200457289591608_964888257_n.jpg?oh=c12659f08b37fdcd3ecaafeebd572f3a&oe=55365D2F)
^^ That there just goes to show that not only does God suck, but his people are stupid. :wink:
All of the states are headed for the shit list. Especially since Tennessee is going to have the "holy" bible for it's state book. :pray: :preach: :pope: :haha:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
(https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/t1.0-9/1013055_594391917279618_533972347_n.jpg?oh=71ee73c4a4855c6878c71dae92fd42b9&oe=55E46DE9)
;D
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11150530_10153868112908327_8596747395934525548_n.jpg?oh=36f8e0eb97adf174e79de370b4b11301&oe=55D16030&__gda__=1439959375_0f1b2c6b2411f58429d9416407aac5df)
Ft. Wayne Woman Marries God. (http://wishtv.com/2015/08/17/fort-wayne-woman-marries-god/) I wonder if he made her sign a prenup?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 18, 2015, 12:56:20 PM
Ft. Wayne Woman Marries God. (http://wishtv.com/2015/08/17/fort-wayne-woman-marries-god/) I wonder if he made her sign a prenup?
She doesn't look like a virgin but I'll bet geebuz is high-fiving himself when he wakes up in the morning! (https://www.facebook.com/jessica.hayes.796)
Wow!
Quote from: Exterminator on August 18, 2015, 12:58:02 PM
She doesn't look like a virgin but I'll bet geebuz is high-fiving himself when he wakes up in the morning! (https://www.facebook.com/jessica.hayes.796)
So. . . ummmmm. . . . errr. . . I guess the vow of celibacy is out of the question then eh? :icon_twisted:
The following article, about Halloween, is written by Dr. Marc Rivera, a senior pastor at Primitive Christian Church in New York. Can anyone else, besides me, spot the absolute delicious irony in this article, especially the part about "they see and speak to unknown invisible personalities?" ;D
~~~~~~~~~~~
Beloved:
Halloween concerns me! Religions throughout the world observe this day as a time to pray and remember believers, saints, martyrs and other people that have died. Although my faith tradition does not practice praying for the departed, I fully understand the academic history from which these ideas emerge. I can even grasp the link made in this country with the harvest, whereby apple bobbing, carving pumpkins and setting bonfires are practiced as a way to celebrate the successful and bountiful crop yield.
Honestly, where I get lost is with the focus on evil, ghosts, divination, witches, haunted attractions, etc. History clearly shows that these practices come from Pagan roots and Celtic ritual. Did you know that dressing in a character comes from the 18th century practice of imitating malignant spirits?
I am further, disturbed that our children are exposed to these negative elements under the guise of a wholesome family celebration. Then we wonder why our kids can't sleep at night when they are overcome by fear, or they see and speak to unknown invisible personalities. (Children are much more spiritually discerning than adults!)
Beloved, the powers of darkness are real and should not be taken lightly. Messing with fire always results in terrible burns. The meaning of the word Halloween is 'holy evening,' yet I doubt that part of the festive plan of many is to actually go to church.
I will not celebrate something that I don't understand. Even if it seems to some that I am ill-informed, fanatical, old-fashioned or someone that spoils the party: I know that I am none of those things.
My advice is to think through what you will do this Saturday, October 31, 2015. Carefully consider not following the crowd down a dark road, but instead staying on the path of light that Jesus has illuminated. It might be unpopular but definitely healthier for you and your loved ones. Remember that ultimately we will give account to God (Romans 14:12).
Dr. Marc Rivera
Senior Pastor
Quote from: Locutus on October 27, 2015, 12:09:02 PM
The following article, about Halloween, is written by Dr. Marc Rivera, a senior pastor at Primitive Christian Church in New York. Can anyone else, besides me, spot the absolute delicious irony in this article, especially the part about "they see and speak to unknown invisible personalities?" ;D
~~~~~~~~~~~
To think that once I would have agreed with this man! So glad I shed all that nonsense.
" History clearly shows that these practices come from Pagan roots...." Does he celebrate Christmas? After all, that has its basis in Paganism. I find it amusing the Christians that won't celebrate Halloween because of its Pagan roots, but will celebrate Christmas. Where do they think most of the traditions for Christmas came from?
I also liked this one:
"(Children are much more spiritually discerning than adults!)" More spiritually discerning than adults? How about a better imagination than adults!
:yes:
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12278721_533897136786057_5807085850956179325_n.jpg?oh=90f54d67aad5a65e6f71f3078ee708c0&oe=56F55F09)
Anyone read about this religious bullshit going on in Virginia?
Schools Close over Islam Homework (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/us/virginia-school-shut-islam-homework/index.html)
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
Anyone read about this religious bullshit going on in Virginia?
Schools Close over Islam Homework (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/us/virginia-school-shut-islam-homework/index.html)
:rolleyes:
Yep, bunch of morons making something out of nothing. >:( Would it have kicked up a fuss if they were to write in calligraphy "Jesus is the son of God"? Of course not! Their faith and the faith of their children must be very weak if they think they will be converted and indoctrinated by writing such a simple statement.
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 18, 2015, 01:35:29 PM
Yep, bunch of morons making something out of nothing. >:( Would it have kicked up a fuss if they were to write in calligraphy "Jesus is the son of God"? Of course not! Their faith and the faith of their children must be very weak if they think they will be converted and indoctrinated by writing such a simple statement.
They're also guilty of something Ex and I discussed on another thread. They're all scared to death of just about EVERYTHING.
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
Anyone read about this religious bullshit going on in Virginia?
Schools Close over Islam Homework (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/us/virginia-school-shut-islam-homework/index.html)
:rolleyes:
My home state... I embarrassed for them. :'(
Just food for thought here. Why is it everyone, or most everyone, comes unhinged at the anyone mentioning this countries religion or wanting anyone to learn about the Bible when they see nothing wrong with teaching about another countries religion or their bible? Seems as though there is a little bit of a two face thing going on here. You be ashamed of being a Christian but if you can accept Islam or learn about it you're great. How can you sit back and bash one religion and not another which also has a God. Do both God's not suck equally and, if not, why not?
Quote from: me on December 18, 2015, 06:46:01 PM
Just food for thought here. Why is it everyone, or most everyone, comes unhinged at the anyone mentioning this countries religion or wanting anyone to learn about the Bible when they see nothing wrong with teaching about another countries religion or their bible?
The only people coming 'unhinged' are the Christians in this example. It seems that's it's just fine as long as it's Christianity, or the Bible, being taught in the schools, but lo and behold, look what happens when it's Islam. There is also a huge difference in education about different religions, and proselytizing. I certainly saw nothing in this assignment that was any attempt to indoctrinate or convert the students. :rolleyes:
I'm trying to find verification of this, but some sites are reporting that this teacher had already had studies on Judaism and Christianity prior to this lesson on Islam. If that's indeed the case, then I don't understand what the problem is/was with this particular assignment.
Quote from: me on December 18, 2015, 06:46:01 PM
Seems as though there is a little bit of a two face thing going on here. You be ashamed of being a Christian but if you can accept Islam or learn about it you're great. How can you sit back and bash one religion and not another which also has a God. Do both God's not suck equally and, if not, why not?
1. I bash all religions equally. Religion is one of the vilest memes ever put forth against humanity and the problems that the scourge of religion causes are readily available for all to see.
2. The Christian and Muslim 'gods' are the same god, although some willfully ignorant Christians will argue that point with you until they're blue in the face. The God of Judaism = The God of Christianity = The God of Islam.
So yes, the thread title covers all three. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
The only people coming 'unhinged' are the Christians in this example. It seems that's it's just fine as long as it's Christianity, or the Bible, being taught in the schools, but lo and behold, look what happens when it's Islam. There is also a huge difference in education about different religions, and proselytizing. I certainly saw nothing in this assignment that was any attempt to indoctrinate or convert the students. :rolleyes:
I'm trying to find verification of this, but some sites are reporting that this teacher had already had studies on Judaism and Christianity prior to this lesson on Islam. If that's indeed the case, then I don't understand what the problem is/was with this particular assignment.
1. I bash all religions equally. Religion is one of the vilest memes ever put forth against humanity and the problems that the scourge of religion causes are readily available for all to see.
2. The Christian and Muslim 'gods' are the same god, although some willfully ignorant Christians will argue that point with you until they're blue in the face. The God of Judaism = The God of Christianity = The God of Islam.
So yes, the thread title covers all three. :wink:
^----EXACTLY what he said, only to the "Holy Trinity" mentioned in #2, I personally add Buddhism , Satanism, etc., etc., etc.. In other words, every single organized religion created by humankind!
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
The only people coming 'unhinged' are the Christians in this example. It seems that's it's just fine as long as it's Christianity, or the Bible, being taught in the schools, but lo and behold, look what happens when it's Islam. There is also a huge difference in education about different religions, and proselytizing. I certainly saw nothing in this assignment that was any attempt to indoctrinate or convert the students. :rolleyes:
I'm trying to find verification of this, but some sites are reporting that this teacher had already had studies on Judaism and Christianity prior to this lesson on Islam. If that's indeed the case, then I don't understand what the problem is/was with this particular assignment.
1. I bash all religions equally. Religion is one of the vilest memes ever put forth against humanity and the problems that the scourge of religion causes are readily available for all to see.
2. The Christian and Muslim 'gods' are the same god, although some willfully ignorant Christians will argue that point with you until they're blue in the face. The God of Judaism = The God of Christianity = The God of Islam.
So yes, the thread title covers all three. :wink:
Ok, so you answered me on a personal level which is fine but not what I really wanted.
Quote from: me on December 18, 2015, 06:46:01 PM
Just food for thought here. Why is it everyone, or most everyone, comes unhinged at the anyone mentioning this countries religion or wanting anyone to learn about the Bible when they see nothing wrong with teaching about another countries religion or their bible? . . .
The fact is you have it wrong in your question and nobody really wanted to point that out to you.
It all comes down to "separation of church and state". Period.
The "lesson" in this case was calligraphy, which has many styles, among them Arabic and other middle-eastern.
"People" ascribe religious inference to things. . . They are idiots.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 19, 2015, 10:21:12 AM
The fact is you have it wrong in your question and nobody really wanted to point that out to you.
Yeah, I went back and read her question again. She's really missing the point right here:
Quote from: me on December 18, 2015, 06:46:01 PM
Just food for thought here. Why is it everyone, or most everyone, comes unhinged at the anyone mentioning this countries religion or wanting anyone to learn about the Bible when they see nothing wrong with teaching about another countries religion or their bible?
This country doesn't have a single religion, let alone an official one. :no:
Quote from: Locutus on December 18, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
I'm trying to find verification of this, but some sites are reporting that this teacher had already had studies on Judaism and Christianity prior to this lesson on Islam. If that's indeed the case, then I don't understand what the problem is/was with this particular assignment.
Here's the verification:
"LaPorte's lesson was part of a survey of different religions. When students study a different part of the world, they also learn about that region's culture, religion and political systems. Students had studied Christianity and Judaism then had moved on to Islam. They will also learn about Hinduism and Buddhism. Comparative religions is part of every world geography students' required standards for Standards of Learning tests."http://www.newsleader.com/story/news/local/2015/12/17/riverheads-high-school-follow-up/77483594/
^^
That right there shows you that this group of militant Christians let their ignorance, and primarily their fear, shut down an entire school system over nothing. This is from an article on CNN with pretty much describes exactly what happened there:
The threat in Augusta County, Virginia, is very real. But the threat there is not a homework assignment about Islam. It's ignorance. Ignorance shut down the schools. Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence. And violence is presumably what was feared as schools were closed on the recommendation of law enforcement following the flood of "hateful" and "profane" calls, emails.
How sad.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/opinions/robbins-augusta-county-islam/index.html
How very sad indeed.
Quote from: Locutus on December 19, 2015, 02:45:49 PM
^^
That right there shows you that this group of militant Christians let their ignorance, and primarily their fear, shut down an entire school system over nothing. This is from an article on CNN with pretty much describes exactly what happened there:
The threat in Augusta County, Virginia, is very real. But the threat there is not a homework assignment about Islam. It's ignorance. Ignorance shut down the schools. Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence. And violence is presumably what was feared as schools were closed on the recommendation of law enforcement following the flood of "hateful" and "profane" calls, emails.
How sad.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/opinions/robbins-augusta-county-islam/index.html
How very sad indeed.
Agreed. :( Ignorance is not bliss.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 19, 2015, 10:21:12 AM
The fact is you have it wrong in your question and nobody really wanted to point that out to you.
It all comes down to "separation of church and state". Period.
The "lesson" in this case was calligraphy, which has many styles, among them Arabic and other middle-eastern.
"People" ascribe religious inference to things. . . They are idiots.
Then why not use our letters and numbers rather than what they were doing, or just normal language rather than a religious passage?
QuoteThe illustrative classical Arabic phrase was the basic statement in Islam. It translated to: "There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is the messenger of Allah."
Quote from: me on December 19, 2015, 11:48:39 PM
Then why not use our letters and numbers rather than what they were doing, or just normal language rather than a religious passage?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Holy hell. . .
Ya missed the quote of what the article said that they were writing.
This country has NO RELIGION!
It makes your position null and void. Useless.
What they were writing is the equivalent of "Jesus Saves" or "There is only one God".
(Why do I bother. . .)
Quote from: Palehorse on December 20, 2015, 06:42:47 PM
(Why do I bother. . .)
Some people will never get it, Palehorse. Blinded by their own ignorance. :(
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 20, 2015, 07:47:12 PM
Some people will never get it, Palehorse. Blinded by their own ignorance. :(
Indeed. . . :yes:
Quote from: Palehorse on December 20, 2015, 06:42:47 PM
This country has NO RELIGION!
It makes your position null and void. Useless.
What they were writing is the equivalent of "Jesus Saves" or "There is only one God".
(Why do I bother. . .)
Exactly. which if they had been writing "there is only one God" in cursive there would have been a left wing uproar over that and you know it. The lesson did not have to say what it did period. There and a lot of things not of a religious nature that could have been written.
Which country has no religion?
I just finished reading, "DIVINITY OF DOUBT" BY Vicient Bugliosi and it is one of the best books I have every read on religion and the case for atheisiam. It is well written and well researched and quotes directly from the bible. If you have any doubts about God and religion here is the book to read. :trustme:
Quote from: The Troll on December 21, 2015, 10:05:15 AM
I just finished reading, "DIVINITY OF DOUBT" BY Vicient Bugliosi and it is one of the best books I have every read on religion and the case for atheisiam. It is well written and well researched and quotes directly from the bible. If you have any doubts about God and religion here is the book to read. :trustme:
Troll, I think I'll take your word for it for now. Right now I'm slowly reading another book, and am trying to come to terms with my Southern Baptist religious upbringing and my interest in science.
As I have said here before, I grew up going to church. I started asking questions about religion when I was a girl, and my parents did not like that, so I just kept it to myself from then on. After my father died, I stopped going to church and moved further away from religion in general, but not my belief in God the Creator. Then, years later, a friend who knew I was an amateur astronomer gave me a book about Cosmology. The author: an agnostic. I found it fascinating.
Fast forward a few years: Someone referred me to another book, same subject, called The Cosmic Code, "... a quantum physics text written for the lay audience." It was, is, very slow reading, but I was encouraged when I read the following, which Albert Einstein wrote after his famous equation seemed to rule out God the Creator: "It seems hard to look in God's cards. But I cannot for a moment believe that he plays dice and makes use of "telepathic" means (as the current quantum theory alleges He does." --
Anyway, What does that make me? Maybe a Southern Baptist Agnostic? :sneaky:
Good words Libby. Thanks for sharing that. :wink:
I've divorced myself totally from any "god the creator," and am an atheist, but yours is an interesting position to take on things.
Quote from: Locutus on December 25, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
Good words Libby. Thanks for sharing that. :wink
I've divorced myself totally from any "god the creator," and am an atheist, but yours is an interesting position to take on things.
Thanks for the "good words" part, Locutus. :wink: Here's somebody else's point of view (the agnostic I mentioned above):
"When giving public lectures on lectures on cosmology , I am often asked about my own religious convictions. On such occasions I sometimes tell a story about a theologian who is asked by an old friend, "Do you believe in God?"
The theologian replies, "I can answer you, but I promise that you won't understand my answer. Do you want me to go ahead?"
"Sure."
"OK, the answer is 'Yes.'"
The point of the story has to do, of course, with the preposterous ambiguity of such terms as "believe" and "God." And that is one reason why I try to avoid answering such questions. Nor do I see that a statement of my personal beliefs would do much to illuminate the issues under discussion in this book.
But, if only to avoid being coy about it, let me say that I'm an agnostic. The term is derived from the Greek agnostos, "unknowable." It was coined in 1869 by Thomas Henry Huxley, who sought to define his stance on religion in contributions to the Metaphysical Society, an organization of eminent English thinkers that met nine times a year to discuss philosophical and theological matters. Huxley meant it to oppose gnosticism, which asserts the primacy of mystical and esoteric faith over logic and reason. His position was comparable to that of Hume, who in the essay "Of Miracles" in his
Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding writes that "a wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
There are two varieties of agnosticism.
"Weak" agnosticism consists of suspending one's opinion as to the existence of God -- pending, I suppose, the introduction of further evidence. This stance seems wishy-washy and probably deserves its dismissal by a contemptuous Friedrich Engels, as "shame-faced atheism."
My position is "strong" agnosticism. It denies that God's existence can ever be disproved. There are many definitions of God, some of which seem to say nothing at all about God except that he exists. I hold that is is impossible to disprove all these definitions. If, to take an extreme example, science were one day to establish beyond reasonable doubt that the universe was created by a mad scientist in a basement laboratory, it would still be possible to posit that the prior universe in which that scientist lived was created by God. Moreover, that scientist, regardless of his inhuman brilliance, would be unable, in principle, to prove that God does not exist -- or so I maintain. I might add that this view is not just a matter of logic-chopping, or a sly way of skirting theological issues. It is offered in good faith with an honest appreciation of the merits of religion, science, and reason. It's not just that I don't know, I assert that we cannot know.
Strong agnosticism is open to disproof. Were God to appear on Earth tomorrow and work convincing miracles --an act that would imply deplorable taste on his part, but which is possible -- then agnosticism, like atheism, would have been disproved.
As to the usefulness of these opinions of mine, I remain a skeptic.
-- Timothy Ferris, from his book
The Whole Shebang, A State of the Universe(s) ReportFerris is the bestselling author of
Coming of Age in the Milky Way (winner of the American Institute of Physics Prize) and
The Mind's Sky (named one of the best books of the year by The New York Times, among others).
An emeritus professor at the University of California, Berkley, he lives in San Francisco.
Quote from: libby on December 28, 2015, 10:01:54 PM
Thanks for the "good words" part, Locutus. :wink: Here's somebody else's point of view (the agnostic I mentioned above):
There are two varieties of agnosticism.
"Weak" agnosticism consists of suspending one's opinion as to the existence of God -- pending, I suppose, the introduction of further evidence. This stance seems wishy-washy and probably deserves its dismissal by a contemptuous Friedrich Engels, as "shame-faced atheism."
My position is "strong" agnosticism. It denies that God's existence can ever be disproved. There are many definitions of God, some of which seem to say nothing at all about God except that he exists. I hold that is is impossible to disprove all these definitions. If, to take an extreme example, science were one day to establish beyond reasonable doubt that the universe was created by a mad scientist in a basement laboratory, it would still be possible to posit that the prior universe in which that scientist lived was created by God. Moreover, that scientist, regardless of his inhuman brilliance, would be unable, in principle, to prove that God does not exist -- or so I maintain. I might add that this view is not just a matter of logic-chopping, or a sly way of skirting theological issues. It is offered in good faith with an honest appreciation of the merits of religion, science, and reason. It's not just that I don't know, I assert that we cannot know.
Strong agnosticism is open to disproof. Were God to appear on Earth tomorrow and work convincing miracles --an act that would imply deplorable taste on his part, but which is possible -- then agnosticism, like atheism, would have been disproved.
That was interesting. Thanks for sharing that, Libby. A few people think all agnosticism is wishy-washy and the person who states that they are agnostic simply don't want to choose sides on whether a god exists or not. I personally am agnostic but with an atheistic leaning.
I was brought up in an evangelical independent fundamentalist church. If I ever questioned anything I was immediately told to "have faith" and "not to question god". I was also brought up in an abusive home. Ironic, huh? Evangelical fundies are all about love and spreading Jesus' love. I guess not in a family setting. I believe abuse is common with fundamentalists. I have no proof of it, but my belief. No amount of praying changed my home life and as an adult I ended up in an abusive marriage from a "godly" man. No amount of praying changed that, either. I was told that my abuse "happened for a reason" and I was told I might not now or ever know why god wanted me to suffer and go through that. But I needed to believe he loved me and had great plans for me. Wow. God loved me so much he wanted me to go through hell on earth. What kind of sicko is that? Why does god need a child to suffer in order to fulfill his plans? That will never make sense. I finally started opening my eyes and left the church and then my marriage. I had so many questions, but my circle of friends were all believers that thought (and still do) that I would come back to Jesus. I knew I wasn't going back. I was also fortunate to have a friend from college message me and after a while of messaging back and forth he told me he was an atheist. I was so excited to finally have someone to talk to! I think I drove him nuts with all the questions I asked, but he was quite patient and gave me a lot to think about. (If he was going nuts with all my questions, he certainly hid it well!) That's a little glimpse into my background and why I agree that "God sucks!" :yes:
Thanks AbbyTC. You have a very interesting story -- I'm sorry about the abuse -- and I'm glad you joined us here. :yes:
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 29, 2015, 08:00:39 PM
That was interesting. Thanks for sharing that, Libby. A few people think all agnosticism is wishy-washy and the person who states that they are agnostic simply don't want to choose sides on whether a god exists or not. I personally am agnostic but with an atheistic leaning.
I was brought up in an evangelical independent fundamentalist church. If I ever questioned anything I was immediately told to "have faith" and "not to question god". I was also brought up in an abusive home. Ironic, huh? Evangelical fundies are all about love and spreading Jesus' love. I guess not in a family setting. I believe abuse is common with fundamentalists. I have no proof of it, but my belief. No amount of praying changed my home life and as an adult I ended up in an abusive marriage from a "godly" man. No amount of praying changed that, either. I was told that my abuse "happened for a reason" and I was told I might not now or ever know why god wanted me to suffer and go through that. But I needed to believe he loved me and had great plans for me. Wow. God loved me so much he wanted me to go through hell on earth. What kind of sicko is that? Why does god need a child to suffer in order to fulfill his plans? That will never make sense. I finally started opening my eyes and left the church and then my marriage. I had so many questions, but my circle of friends were all believers that thought (and still do) that I would come back to Jesus. I knew I wasn't going back. I was also fortunate to have a friend from college message me and after a while of messaging back and forth he told me he was an atheist. I was so excited to finally have someone to talk to! I think I drove him nuts with all the questions I asked, but he was quite patient and gave me a lot to think about. (If he was going nuts with all my questions, he certainly hid it well!) That's a little glimpse into my background and why I agree that "God sucks!" :yes:
I don't know your age, but I am 78years old and I think that children who were raised by people born during the worse part of the depression. Were raised by parents who believe of beating the hell out of their kids. My mother was two different people. A god fearing church lady, the people of her church thought that butter couldm't melt in her mouth. But at home when she came off the handle she would hit you with anything that was in her hand and I really mean anything.
One of her favorite things to do was slap you across the side of the head and face until your head rang. But then later tell you how she hated her dad when he slapped and beat her and her sisters. But she would still do it to me and my two sisters. She was a good mom until she got mad and that didn't take too much. I and my younger sister more or less thought is was just a part of living with her. My oldest sister took all of it too heart and she is still damage today by the treatment mom gave her.
My dad was a kid that was from divorced mom and dad and was sent to live with his crazy grandmother and he had it really bad; He talked how hungry and poor he and his brother had it. He did spank me a couple of times, but I think it hurt him as much as it hurt me. They are both gone, but I still would like to have them around, especially at Christmas.
As far as being a Agnostic, is just a cowardly Atheist. If there is a god who watches you 24/7, 365 days a year, he knows damn well what you think of him. Somebody say Amen. :pray: :preach: :pope: and the holy ghost :ghost: :rolleyes: :smile:
Abby, thanks for sharing your story.
I was raised in a Christian home but fortunately my parents weren't abusive or never said pray or any of that stuff.
All I am going to say is..........God doesn't suck. PERIOD. I couldn't imagine NOT having faith in Him.
This is NOT a bash against anybody else.....
Everybody has to come to terms with their own beliefs....I am 100% comfortable with my belief.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 30, 2015, 10:42:57 AM
All I am going to say is..........God doesn't suck. PERIOD. I couldn't imagine NOT having faith in Him.
Then how do you reconcile your beliefs in and about god, whatever those may be, with the points that AbbyTC made in her post?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 30, 2015, 10:42:57 AM
All I am going to say is..........God doesn't suck. PERIOD. I couldn't imagine NOT having faith in Him.
This is NOT a bash against anybody else.....
Everybody has to come to terms with their own beliefs....I am 100% comfortable with my belief.
Henry when you say what you just said, I just have to think you are not too bright. :lol: :yes: Believing in spirts, ghost, virgin birth and all of the other fairy tales in the bible. :tink:
Quote from: The Troll on December 29, 2015, 11:43:54 PM
I don't know your age, but I am 78years old .....
Nowhere close to yours! :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 30, 2015, 10:42:57 AM
All I am going to say is..........God doesn't suck. PERIOD. I couldn't imagine NOT having faith in Him.
This is NOT a bash against anybody else.....
Everybody has to come to terms with their own beliefs....I am 100% comfortable with my belief.
Henry, how do you reconcile a loving god to one who lets abuse happen to the children he supposedly loves? Christians spout "god is love", how the hell does letting children be abused show love? Let alone all the other suffering people have to deal with. You have a cruel god, not a loving one. Why do you want to have faith in someone who doesn't give a shit about you?
Do you pray and read your bible? Go to church on Sundays and worship? Try this experiment. Go for a few months (preferably more) without doing any of that. You'll realize it doesn't make a difference if you pray, read, and/or worship or not. At the least, you're life won't be any different. At best, you're life will get better because you realize you need to rely on yourself instead of an imaginary being to take care of you. And then you'll come to the conclusion that it was you doing it all for your entire life. It's a great feeling to realize it's you in control of your destiny, not some imaginary god who supposedly knows everything about you. Try it, Henry, you'll like the results! :yes:
Quote from: libby on December 29, 2015, 09:25:16 PM
Thanks AbbyTC. You have a very interesting story -- I'm sorry about the abuse -- and I'm glad you joined us here. :yes:
Libby, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad I'm here, too! I like reading all the different thoughts on so many different topics. :)
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 30, 2015, 09:47:32 PM
Libby, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad I'm here, too! I like reading all the different thoughts on so many different topics.
You're welcome, and yes, different topics and personalities make this a very interesting forum.
Where do you suppose this ZIKA virus came from? I had never heard of this virus before this week. Now it is in the United States and it can be carried by god's mosquitoes. Yep, it must be one on god's newest smites against us sinners for abortions and letting his creations, the homosexuals get married. :haha: It has to be that, it couldn't be any other way. On your knees sinners. :sinner: :ogod: :devil29:
^^ You know what's funny about that? It probably wouldn't take too much digging on FaceBook to find a few people espousing that exact same position. ;D
The reality is this virus has been present all along, and the changing environmental conditions have now conspired to increase the populations of the breed of mosquito that carries it! :yes:
Now don't go using logic on the fundies! ;D
Quote from: Locutus on January 28, 2016, 06:14:49 PM
Now don't go using logic on the fundies! ;D
:icon_twisted:
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 30, 2015, 09:33:43 PM
Henry, how do you reconcile a loving god to one who lets abuse happen to the children he supposedly loves? Christians spout "god is love", how the hell does letting children be abused show love? Let alone all the other suffering people have to deal with. You have a cruel god, not a loving one. Why do you want to have faith in someone who doesn't give a shit about you?
Do you pray and read your bible? Go to church on Sundays and worship? Try this experiment. Go for a few months (preferably more) without doing any of that. You'll realize it doesn't make a difference if you pray, read, and/or worship or not. At the least, you're life won't be any different. At best, you're life will get better because you realize you need to rely on yourself instead of an imaginary being to take care of you. And then you'll come to the conclusion that it was you doing it all for your entire life. It's a great feeling to realize it's you in control of your destiny, not some imaginary god who supposedly knows everything about you. Try it, Henry, you'll like the results! :yes:
Henry Hawk, can you give me an answer to my questions above? I really do want to know how you can reconcile your loving god with one that lets abuse happen to me and countless others.
Also, are you willing to try the experiment? I'd like to know your answer and if it's no, the reason behind it.
Tomorrow Abby, I will answer this for you. 😎
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 30, 2015, 09:33:43 PM
Henry, how do you reconcile a loving god to one who lets abuse happen to the children he supposedly loves? Christians spout "god is love", how the hell does letting children be abused show love? Let alone all the other suffering people have to deal with. You have a cruel god, not a loving one. Why do you want to have faith in someone who doesn't give a shit about you?
Abby, this is MY opinion. This is what sustains me and my faith. It works for me, so here it is...
I believe there is an ultimate goal to this life that has been given to us.....and that all of the pain and suffering will pale in comparison to what God has in store for those who choose to follow Him. To understand love, there has to be pain, suffering, torment and even hatred. God gave us free will. We live in a world full of good and evil. We all have choices to make. I have chosen to accept this and that, as the Bibles tells us....
No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him...This is just my 30 second story, but that is it in a nutshell.
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 30, 2015, 09:33:43 PM
Do you pray and read your bible?
Yes, I pray. I have read my bible, and still do, when I feel the desire too.
Quote from: AbbyTC on December 30, 2015, 09:33:43 PM
Go to church on Sundays and worship?
I haven't been to Church on a regular basis since my Pastor passed away back in 2006. So YES, I have taken your experiment. I must disagree with you on many levels. I still pray and I still worship God in my own way.
Church for now, is not something I personally desire to attend. But honoring God, with all my heart, mind and soul is still something I desire to do. I am probably not real good at it most of the time....but I am content, in my way of worship.
It is MY belief, that everyone must find their own way of building a relationship with Him.
I cannot turn my back on Him as you suggest I do. I am not made up that way. I have experienced too much in my life, that I can only give Him credit for. I will never turn my back on Him..no more than I would my wife, my kids or friends of mine. My relationship with Him, is just as real as they are.
Now Abby, I am not knocking you one bit. If you are content with your chosen lifestyle, then kudos to you. :yes:
Perhaps, I may wake up some day....DEAD...and I won't know any different.....but, I am banking that when that day comes, that God has prepared a place that we cannot conceive. Something referred to as Paradise...Jesus promised the thief who was hanging on a cross next to Him, that "
Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise"
I am more than happy to have any civil discussion on this topic anytime.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2016, 09:32:13 AM
Abby, this is MY opinion. This is what sustains me and my faith. It works for me, so here it is...
I believe there is an ultimate goal to this life that has been given to us.....and that all of the pain and suffering will pale in comparison to what God has in store for those who choose to follow Him. To understand love, there has to be pain, suffering, torment and even hatred. God gave us free will. We live in a world full of good and evil. We all have choices to make. I have chosen to accept this and that, as the Bibles tells us....No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him...This is just my 30 second story, but that is it in a nutshell.
I don't understand why there has to be so much pain, suffering, torment and hatred in order to understand love. I get where you are going with that, but it doesn't explain why a child would have to experience broken bones and extreme belittling and hatred so they could understand what love is. What about a child that is abused to the point of death and the only thing they experienced was abuse? They would have no concept of love. And if I don't end up loving god, then I don't get to go to the place he prepared. So then I get screwed in life today and the afterlife. That's pretty shitty.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2016, 09:32:13 AM
Yes, I pray. I have read my bible, and still do, when I feel the desire too.
I haven't been to Church on a regular basis since my Pastor passed away back in 2006. So YES, I have taken your experiment.
I don't think you did my experiment. Did you stop doing all the things I listed? Praying, worshiping, reading the bible, going to church. That's the experiment. Not doing any of those things, living life under your own control and being completely responsible for your own actions. There's no difference! My life is better as I no longer wait on a mythical being to solve my problems for me. I wasted a lot of years doing that and had to rebuild my life because of it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2016, 09:32:13 AM
It is MY belief, that everyone must find their own way of building a relationship with Him.
[/i]I am more than happy to have any civil discussion on this topic anytime.... :yes:
Just curious, does this include Muslims and Jews? What about the person who worships nature as a god? Or is it only with the Christian god?
And civil is good! :yes:
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 16, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
I don't understand why there has to be so much pain, suffering, torment and hatred in order to understand love. I get where you are going with that, but it doesn't explain why a child would have to experience broken bones and extreme belittling and hatred so they could understand what love is. What about a child that is abused to the point of death and the only thing they experienced was abuse? They would have no concept of love.
Again, this is my opinion, based upon my experiences, studying, and living my life....I am NOT saying I know more or that THIS is the only way it has to be.....but, the way I take it is, that it would be easy if God just snapped His fingers and MADE everyone LOVE Him. But I don't think that is what He wanted. He WANTS us to know Him and Love Him. A real, human love. To know what love is, mankind had to experience a world full of sin and the natural order of things. We as humans have emotions, just as God has. He understands pain and suffering. It is there so that we may KNOW we can have an eternity of love, with no more pain and suffering. THAT is what it is all about, according to God. We may not like it or understand it, but THAT is how I believe it to be.
The time we have here on this earth is minuscule compared to eternity.
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 16, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
And if I don't end up loving god, then I don't get to go to the place he prepared. So then I get screwed in life today and the afterlife. That's pretty shitty.
I don't know the answer to that....we have a loving and forgiving God....But He also says, If you don't know me, I won't know you. You may get screwed, I don't know. All I know is, THIS is the way I WANT to live...it is the way I want to raise my kids. When they become of age, they get to make their own decisions on this.
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 16, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
I don't think you did my experiment. Did you stop doing all the things I listed? Praying, worshiping, reading the bible, going to church. That's the experiment. Not doing any of those things, living life under your own control and being completely responsible for your own actions. There's no difference! My life is better as I no longer wait on a mythical being to solve my problems for me. I wasted a lot of years doing that and had to rebuild my life because of it.
Then I guess I didn't do your experiment, and I'm pretty sure I won't. I did go through a lengthy period of time right after my pastor died where I pretty much quit all of it. But, after a spell, I was drawn back into my relationship with Him. THAT is where I find my comfort and level of contentment. I can't imagine not believing. It is part of who I am.
I'm sorry you feel as if you wasted years of your life....but you never know, you may get that "urge" once again. Sometimes that is deeply embedded within you for a reason.
Hey if you are happy and content with this life, then my power to you. I can only tell you how I feel about it.
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 16, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
Just curious, does this include Muslims and Jews? What about the person who worships nature as a god? Or is it only with the Christian god?
I can't answer that. I cling to John 3-16. For God so loved the world, he begat His one and only Son, that whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. THAT is what I get from the Bible..............But I will NEVER judge or try to tell anybody else HOW to believe. I think God knows what He is doing....and He knows how to deal with everyone....Jews, Muslims, Indians, EVERY body.
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 16, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
And civil is good! :yes:
Yep! As long as everyone is civil, I love to talk about anything to everything.... :yes: But as you know, the Zone isn't always a Civil place... :spooked: :razz:
If you read your Bible, you will find that your God is not good and kind. :no: He is mean, cruel, vengeful, killing millions of people each and every day. Read your Old Testament and read how bad your God really is. For your God says, he is the giver of pain and death. :ogod: :jc:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2016, 03:10:58 PM
Yep! As long as everyone is civil, I love to talk about anything to everything.... :yes: But as you know, the Zone isn't always a Civil place... :spooked: :razz:
It can get heated at times. :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 16, 2016, 03:10:58 PM
Again, this is my opinion, based upon my experiences, studying, and living my life....I am NOT saying I know more or that THIS is the only way it has to be.....but, the way I take it is, that it would be easy if God just snapped His fingers and MADE everyone LOVE Him. But I don't think that is what He wanted. He WANTS us to know Him and Love Him. A real, human love. To know what love is, mankind had to experience a world full of sin and the natural order of things. We as humans have emotions, just as God has. He understands pain and suffering. It is there so that we may KNOW we can have an eternity of love, with no more pain and suffering. THAT is what it is all about, according to God. We may not like it or understand it, but THAT is how I believe it to be.
The time we have here on this earth is minuscule compared to eternity.
I don't know the answer to that....we have a loving and forgiving God....But He also says, If you don't know me, I won't know you. You may get screwed, I don't know. All I know is, THIS is the way I WANT to live...it is the way I want to raise my kids. When they become of age, they get to make their own decisions on this.
Then I guess I didn't do your experiment, and I'm pretty sure I won't. I did go through a lengthy period of time right after my pastor died where I pretty much quit all of it. But, after a spell, I was drawn back into my relationship with Him. THAT is where I find my comfort and level of contentment. I can't imagine not believing. It is part of who I am.
I'm sorry you feel as if you wasted years of your life....but you never know, you may get that "urge" once again. Sometimes that is deeply embedded within you for a reason.
Hey if you are happy and content with this life, then my power to you. I can only tell you how I feel about it.
I can't answer that. I cling to John 3-16. For God so loved the world, he begat His one and only Son, that whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. THAT is what I get from the Bible..............But I will NEVER judge or try to tell anybody else HOW to believe. I think God knows what He is doing....and He knows how to deal with everyone....Jews, Muslims, Indians, EVERY body.
Yep! As long as everyone is civil, I love to talk about anything to everything.... :yes: But as you know, the Zone isn't always a Civil place... :spooked: :razz:
HH, without going into my own beliefs, which more or less reflect my Southern Baptist upbringing and lifelong interest in science, I'd like to ask your opinion of something that popped into my head immediately after watching Bill and Gloria Gaither last Saturday night.
Unlike previous programs and repeats, the entire hour was given to a young couple, Joey and Rory. She (Joey) had a beautiful voice, and was singing an old familiar hymn when I tuned in. The entire crowd, and Bill, were unusually subdued as she sang. About halfway through, Bill did a short interview with the two of them -- they talked about her battle with cancer and about faith in God and why bad things happen to good people like her (the mother of a baby girl). Then she sang more old timey hymns. The program ended about 10 minutes short of the usual hour, and Bill came back on and explained that the program we'd just seen was recorded a year ago and sadly, Joey lost her battle with cancer.
Upon hearing that, I wasn't thinking, I was feeling -- the terrible sadness of realizing that beautiful young woman, a wife and mother, had died not long after that program.
And then, my first conscious thought was: "Religion is the opiate of the masses," a paraphrase of something I was pretty sure Karl Marx wrote. When or where, I didn't remember, so I googled it. Here's the actual quote:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."
I'm not saying I think religion, any religion, is bad or good. I guess I think we all choose to believe what we can live with while trying to have a halfway happy life.
Quote from: libby on February 18, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
Upon hearing that, I wasn't thinking, I was feeling -- the terrible sadness of realizing that beautiful young woman, a wife and mother, had died not long after that program.
Uh...she's not well but she's still alive.
Quote from: libby on February 18, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
HH, without going into my own beliefs, which more or less reflect my Southern Baptist upbringing and lifelong interest in science, I'd like to ask your opinion of something that popped into my head immediately after watching Bill and Gloria Gaither last Saturday night.
Unlike previous programs and repeats, the entire hour was given to a young couple, Joey and Rory. She (Joey) had a beautiful voice, and was singing an old familiar hymn when I tuned in. The entire crowd, and Bill, were unusually subdued as she sang. About halfway through, Bill did a short interview with the two of them -- they talked about her battle with cancer and about faith in God and why bad things happen to good people like her (the mother of a baby girl). Then she sang more old timey hymns. The program ended about 10 minutes short of the usual hour, and Bill came back on and explained that the program we'd just seen was recorded a year ago and sadly, Joey lost her battle with cancer.
Upon hearing that, I wasn't thinking, I was feeling -- the terrible sadness of realizing that beautiful young woman, a wife and mother, had died not long after that program.
And then, my first conscious thought was: "Religion is the opiate of the masses," a paraphrase of something I was pretty sure Karl Marx wrote. When or where, I didn't remember, so I googled it. Here's the actual quote:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."
I'm not saying I think religion, any religion, is bad or good. I guess I think we all choose to believe what we can live with while trying to have a halfway happy life.
Hi Libby,
Joey is still alive. Not in very good shape, but still here.
As far as the Marx quote: I think it is hard to disagree with that as a general statement. It doesn't mean that Religion isn't real, or there is NO GOD.
We all have to find our way through this world and time we have on it. I have a strong faith that God is very, very real. I have experienced too much to think likewise.
In the case of Joey and Rory, their faith is keeping them strong though these rough times.....much like a drug, I guess....but if this is something they truly believe, and they are rising above all by their faith........it think it is a wonderful thing.
I also believe, that these two have had so many personal experiences that MADE their faith. It is not just saying "I want to be religious" and BOOM you feel good.....It isn't just reading a Bible or listening to a preacher that gives us faith........it is real life experiences that develop faith.
:confused: What can I say? Thanks, guys.
Quote from: libby on February 18, 2016, 01:30:17 PM
:confused: What can I say? Thanks, guys.
It's easier for us to keep tabs on her since she is here in Indiana and in the news constantly.
Oh, oh yes, God is so wonderful, forgiving and helpful. :haha: Just go to a children's hospital and see all of the crippled, sick and dying kids. All of the prayers of all of the thousand of parents and friends going unanswered. Just like all of the prayers of all the fans and friends of Joey going unanswered. The so called God doesn't answer prayers or questions. He's so loving to his flock. :baaa:
Just another statement from that wonder and powerful God. :wink: If you find your new wife not a virgin on your wedding night. Stone her to death and cast her on her father's step. :rolleyes: Isn't that just wonderful of the forgiving lord. :haha: You got to be brain dead to believe all of this bullshit. :end: :baaa:
This is my example of what is not civil
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2016, 06:55:22 PM
This is my example of what is not civil
Henry, what is not civil about this? :confused: It's the truth, taken directly from your bible.:preach: Henry, you don't know shit about your bible, I don't think you read very much of it. :yes: Henry if you have had a religious experience please tell us about it. You surly are proud of your god's intervention into your private life. Come on Henry tell us and don't bullshit your way out of it. :yes: I don't and probably no one else would believe you. Even if your tongue was notarized. :haha:
See.... ;)
and btw....the pope sucks..... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 08:32:55 AM
and btw....the pope sucks..... :yes:
Your preference for Trump over the pope speaks volumes about your feigned religious beliefs. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2016, 08:39:11 AM
Your preference for Trump over the pope speaks volumes about your feigned religious beliefs. :rolleyes:
says the atheist.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 08:50:39 AM
says the atheist.
Yes, the athiest who was raised Catholic and went to parochial schools for several years. Between Trump and the pope, who do you think sound more like Jesus?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 08:32:55 AM
and btw....the pope sucks..... :yes:
Why? Because he told the truth?
Quote from: Bo D on February 19, 2016, 09:15:12 AM
Why? Because he told the truth?
How did he tell the truth? He was being extremely hypocritical. One moment he is saying "who am I to judge" regarding gays.......then he calls someone who wants a fence on our boarder "Not a Christian"...........and to boot, the Vatican City has a fence all around it. Very hypocritical coming from a supposed man of God.
Just sayin...
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2016, 08:53:36 AM
Yes, the athiest who was raised Catholic and went to parochial schools for several years. Between Trump and the pope, who do you think sound more like Jesus?
Trump
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 10:28:07 AM
Trump
You are no Christian...not even close...and quit lying about reading the bible. :rolleyes:
But yet Trump can go on and on about Obama's faith, even to the point of claiming he is a Muslim, and no one complains about that?
Man! Talk about hypocrisy!
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2016, 11:01:52 AM
You are no Christian...not even close...and quit lying about reading the bible. :rolleyes:
Typical liberal response.....talking outta your ass.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 11:13:38 AM
Typical liberal response.....talking outta your ass.
Typical hypocrite's response...fake ass liar.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2016, 02:44:46 PM
It's easier for us to keep tabs on her since she is here in Indiana and in the news constantly.
Belatedly, thank you. :flwr:
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 16, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
And if I don't end up loving god, then I don't get to go to the place he prepared. So then I get screwed in life today and the afterlife. That's pretty shitty.
That's exactly what proves the lie to the xtian excuse of 'Free Will'.
I've pointed out a long time ago to Hank and other so-called xtian's/religious apologists (a version of it may still be in my personal are here) that 'Free Will' cannot be an 'either/or' proposition as they present it.
For 'Free Will' to actually exist, it must include the option to not play god's little game at all - and suffer no consequences for it.
'Free Will' is just xtian's simple minded blather aimed to distract from their doctrine's - and religion in general - lack of answers to real world situations/problems.
Another bit of their foolish religious blather is the doctrine of 'Sola Fide' (by faith alone). It's a morally bankrupt doctrine which allows for any actions/behavior.
Just pay attention to Hank's description of 'god' and 'eternal life' in 'paradise' it's obvious how easy it is to prove such nonsense doesn't exist except in the fevered minds of the religious - of all persuasions. Also, notice how similar it is to the Muslim religious persuasion that his ilk despises so much.
Even though I know the average IQ of this country is sub 100, I can't believe anyone actually swallows all that religious hogwash.
Quote from: libby on February 18, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
I'd like to ask your opinion of something that popped into my head immediately after watching Bill and Gloria Gaither last Saturday night.
Unlike previous programs and repeats, the entire hour was given to a young couple, Joey and Rory. She (Joey) had a beautiful voice, and was singing an old familiar hymn when I tuned in. The entire crowd, and Bill, were unusually subdued as she sang. About halfway through, Bill did a short interview with the two of them -- they talked about her battle with cancer and about faith in God and why bad things happen to good people like her (the mother of a baby girl). Then she sang more old timey hymns. The program ended about 10 minutes short of the usual hour, and Bill came back on and explained that the program we'd just seen was recorded a year ago and sadly, Joey lost her battle with cancer.
I hate to disappoint, and it's a shame she's dying (but as most folks I've lost several friends to cancer, so it happens and it's nothing special) but it's all schtick. Just like the Gaithers, it's all about the money and fame, there's nothing 'religious' about it. 'Gospel' music and 'faith' was turned to after other music career opportunities failed and unexpected life situations.
You'd have to live around here and be familiar with the Church of God, Anderson University, and the people like the Gaithers etc. associated with them to understand the corruption and hypocrisy.
'Xtian'/religious music and the industry behind it is a farce, and the people involved corrupt fakes.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2016, 06:55:22 PM
This is my example of what is not civil
Pfffft! You're a crybaby! You can dish it out but have never been able to take it. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 08:32:55 AM
and btw....the pope sucks..... :yes:
Yeah, we know you've been given that material by the RW Noize Machine to mindlessly regurgitate.
If you think the Big Harrumph is anything near exemplifying any xtian religious ideals, you're a bigger fool than I know you to be.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2016, 10:27:47 AM
How did he tell the truth? He was being extremely hypocritical. One moment he is saying "who am I to judge" regarding gays.......then he calls someone who wants a fence on our boarder "Not a Christian"...........and to boot, the Vatican City has a fence all around it. Very hypocritical coming from a supposed man of God.
Just sayin...
Here's the quote:
"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel," the Pope told journalists who asked his opinion on Trump's proposals to halt illegal immigration. We know you're just regurgitating RW Noize Machine propaganda, but that 'judging' bit is just 'apples/oranges' crap.
Also, you let your handler's BS make you look a dope. The Vatican does not have a 'fence all around it'.
"What a maroon!" - Bugs Bunny
Quote from: Y on February 19, 2016, 05:50:09 PM
You'd have to live around here and be familiar with the Church of God, Anderson University, and the people like the Gaithers etc. associated with them to understand the corruption and hypocrisy.
Don't forget Sandi Patty. :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on February 19, 2016, 07:54:32 PM
Don't forget Sandi Patty. :biggrin:
Yeah, she's included in the etc., but we certainly can't forget her and her fiascoes.
She finally moved from here to OK because she could no longer take the pressure.
Quote from: Y on February 19, 2016, 05:50:09 PM
I hate to disappoint, and it's a shame she's dying (but as most folks I've lost several friends to cancer, so it happens and it's nothing special) but it's all schtick. Just like the Gaithers, it's all about the money and fame, there's nothing 'religious' about it. 'Gospel' music and 'faith' was turned to after other music career opportunities failed and unexpected life situations.
You'd have to live around here and be familiar with the Church of God, Anderson University, and the people like the Gaithers etc. associated with them to understand the corruption and hypocrisy.
'Xtian'/religious music and the industry behind it is a farce, and the people involved corrupt fakes.
Hello Y. :smile: It's good to see you. I've missed you.
Re: the Gaithers: I enjoyed their programs when they sang old time hymns in unison -- they were the same hymns I heard in the little country church we went to when I was a girl. I discovered them while driving east in the Shenandoah Valley after spending a week in Bluefield helping my sister with some things after our mother died. I had no idea who/what I was listening to on my car radio -- but I drove and cried for the first time. Then not too long after that I heard that sound again as I was scrolling through TV programs. They've changed so much since then that I seldom tune in -- and when I do it's mostly to try to get a glimpse of Guy Penrod -- I thought he was one sexy dude :yes: back when he was new to the Gaithers. I liked his voice, too. :wink:
I saw him -- and the rest of the group -- in person one time when my son and his girlfriend agreed to go with me to George Mason University, which is not far from where I live, for one of their yearly concerts. The place was packed. Not an empty seat. Son looked around and said, "Good Lord! I've never seen so many rednecks in one place in my entire life!" He was referring to the audience. Lots of pickup trucks.
Quote from: libby on February 19, 2016, 08:33:28 PM
Son looked around and said, "Good Lord! I've never seen so many rednecks in one place in my entire life!" He was referring to the audience. Lots of pickup trucks.
:rotfl:
Pickup trucks: Yes, but, not all men who drive pick-up trucks are rednecks. I can think of two right off the top of my head: my first love, who was a college football player, lawyer and prosecuting attorney. He said, "Every boy needs a truck." And, another manly man and dear friend, high intellect, educated, sophisticated, who also drives a big pickup truck. :wink: :biggrin:
Here's a little story about God sucking, especially to those who love and serve him.
My dad's side of the family is very religious, but his aunt (the matriarch of her side) and her progeny are especially so. She was very religious (church every Sunday and all that), and she passed that religiosity down to her children. They aren't of the Presbyterian or Episcopalian flavor either. They are of the Bible thumpin', pew jumpin' Pentecostal Holiness type of Christians. :big grin:
1. The matriarch of the family produced three daughters and one son. The daughters all married preachers themselves, and the son went to seminary and became a Bible thumpin', pew jumpin' Pentecostal preacher as well. After loving and serving 'the Lord' as best she could her whole life, and producing children who loved 'the Lord' as much as she did, she was rewarded with ovarian cancer and died a horrendous painful death at an early age.
2. One of her daughters, who married a preacher, had two sons. One day, her husband was assisting with some roof repairs on the church where they were serving. For some reason, known only to 'the Lord,' he fell off of the roof and struck his head on the ground. He was dead within 24 hours leaving two very young sons behind. So much for his reward too.
3. The other daughter also married a preacher who spent his entire life serving 'the Lord.' They went around to remote churches and sang with their daughter and friends in a group called The Calvary Messengers. Her husband became ill and ended up having gastric surgery that led to a colostomy bag. Everything was fine with that, but somehow, for reasons known only to 'the Lord,' something went wrong with the colostomy reversal. It wasn't discovered until a couple of days later when he became violently ill. He died a horrific, painful, death which included vomiting his own feces through his mouth. How abominably gross is that? But that was all in God's plan according to the family.
4. What of her son? Well, he ended up with stage-IV pancreatic cancer. He too died a miserable death after preaching and serving 'the Lord' his entire life.
I said all of that to say this. Why can't 'believers' see that the whole God thing is just a bunch of bullshit? An all knowing and loving God doesn't/shouldn't allow shit like that to happen to people who serve him. You would think that he would reserve such gruesomeness to his enemies. But yet he doesn't.
If one were to truly think logically about the whole thing, it just falls flat on its face.
Yes, God sucks! ;D
Henry get out your bible and read Joshua 6:16-20. Read how you wonderful, kind and loving god commits genocide. Yes, your god spoke to Joshua directly and told him to take and defeat Jericho. :yes: After he over ran it, he was to save one person. The whore who hid Joshua's spies. He was to kill all living things in Jericho. The men, women, children, old people, cattle, sheep, donkeys, yes, put to the sword every living thing and burn it to the ground. But he was to take all gold, sliver, bronze and iron and bring it back to god's Treasury. What in hell does god need all of the gold, silver, bronze and iron when he can create everything. :confused:
Yet you claim to be a intelligent man, a smart man. Yet you want to worship a cruel despot like this. I can't believe anything you say or do. :dizzy2: :busted:
Quote from: Locutus on February 19, 2016, 09:04:17 PM
I said all of that to say this. Why can't 'believers' see that the whole God thing is just a bunch of bullshit? An all knowing and loving God doesn't/shouldn't allow shit like that to happen to people who serve him. You would think that he would reserve such gruesomeness to his enemies. But yet he doesn't.
If one were to truly think logically about the whole thing, it just falls flat on its face.
Yes, God sucks! ;D
Why can't believers see it's all bullshit? Because it's easier to believe a lie than the truth. It's easier to not be responsible for what you are doing and believe a god is going to take care of things for you. A lot of Christians were brought up in it-so they've been brainwashed into believing it all. And scared into believing. Hell! Eternal damnation! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 19, 2016, 10:42:39 PM
Why can't believers see it's all bullshit? Because it's easier to believe a lie than the truth. It's easier to not be responsible for what you are doing and believe a god is going to take care of things for you. A lot of Christians were brought up in it-so they've been brainwashed into believing it all. And scared into believing. Hell! Eternal damnation! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! :icon_twisted:
Indeed the fear factor is a big part of it.
It's also about control. :wink:
Speaking of hell and how that threat is used to get people "saved", I wasn't really afraid of hell. What actually freaked me out was the idea of living forever and having to praise and sing to god for all eternity. I would actually lie in bed at night with my stomach churning thinking about this. I didn't want to have to do that. Where was the fun? Just singing and praising? No thanks.
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 19, 2016, 10:49:01 PM
Speaking of hell and how that threat is used to get people "saved", I wasn't really afraid of hell. What actually freaked me out was the idea of living forever and having to praise and sing to god for all eternity. I would actually lie in bed at night with my stomach churning thinking about this. I didn't want to have to do that. Where was the fun? Just singing and praising? No thanks.
And will god get suddenly bored with all of that? When/if he does, will he poof everyone away and make a new set of people to screw with? The bible says he's a jealous god, so if you talk to your friend instead of singing/praising, will he get mad at you and poof you away?
It just doesn't make sense. If all you're going to do is praise and sing, what good is eternity for? Now if you tell me I can go explore the universe, at least that offers a bit more of something interesting to do. :yes: Otherwise, I think it will get boring quite quickly.
Yes, just think about sitting around god's feet all day long, all day long, for ever and ever and ever. :jc: :ghost: Praising him and praying too him all day long for ever and ever and ever and ever. :kneel: :ogod: Taking time out to sit beside him at the dinner table. :eat: :pizza: :fam: :rotfl: Before returning to your own mansion in the sky to :spot: :bath::sleeping: :coffee: : Then getting up and walking on god's golden streets. :run: Who is going to prepare your food, clean your mansion and sweep God's golden streets. Also how many sides does God have, surly there is going to be more than two people in heaven to sit and stand by him. :haha:
Billy Graham said in his early days of his preaching. :preaching: That when he went to God's heaven, he was going to drive his golden Cadillac :bike:on God's golden streets. I wonder what the punishment is for running one of God's golden stop lights. :devil4: :wink: :smile:
If you believe all of this and it says all of this in your :bs: bible. I think you should take a close look at the meter below. :sailor:
:det:
Quote from: The Troll on February 20, 2016, 12:19:59 PM
Yes, just think about sitting around god's feet all day long, all day long, for ever and ever and ever. :jc: :ghost: Praising him and praying too him all day long for ever and ever and ever and ever. :kneel: :ogod: Taking time out to sit beside him at the dinner table. :eat: :pizza: :fam: :rotfl: Before returning to your own mansion in the sky to :spot: :bath::sleeping: :coffee: : Then getting up and walking on god's golden streets. :run: Who is going to prepare your food, clean your mansion and sweep God's golden streets. Also how many sides does God have, surly there is going to be more than two people in heaven to sit and stand by him. :haha:
Billy Graham said in his early days of his preaching. :preach: That when he went to God's heaven, he was going to drive his golden Cadillac :bike: on God's golden streets. I wonder what the punishment is for running one of God's golden stop lights. :cop: :traffic: :devil4: :wink: :smile:
If you believe all of this and it says all of this in your :bs: bible. I think you should take a close look at the meter below. :sailor:
:det:
Revised addition above. :wink: :biggrin:
:confused: I personally think reincarnation sounds better. :smile: By that I mean the idea that we can come back if we want to -- or not. (If at first you fail, try, try again.)
Reincarnation and time travel are my favorite science fiction subjects. I remember when I first read about the concept of time travel. I was working in a Bluefield Hospital while taking college classes part time, and was thumbing through a magazine and read a short story about a young man walking into the attic of a home and stepping back in time. I was fascinated. Still am. Especially since science (quantum theory) seems to indicate that human intention seems to influence the outcome of experiments ... hmmm ... I wonder... am I nutty? I dunno.
Quote from: libby on February 20, 2016, 03:03:20 PM
:confused: I personally think reincarnation sounds better. :smile: By that I mean the idea that we can come back if we want to -- or not. (If at first you fail, try, try again.)
Reincarnation and time travel are my favorite science fiction subjects. I remember when I first read about the concept of time travel. I was working in a Bluefield Hospital while taking college classes part time, and was thumbing through a magazine and read a short story about a young man walking into the attic of a home and stepping back in time. I was fascinated. Still am. Especially since science (quantum theory) seems to indicate that human intention seems to influence the outcome of experiments ... hmmm ... I wonder... am I nutty? I dunno.
Libby, what kind of an animal would you come back as. :confused: I think I would like to be like my cat. :kitty: He's loved, he gets the best medical care. He eats only the best and expensive food, because he won't eat anything else. :yes: He sleep all he wants to and anywhere he wants too. :sleeping: Let's face it, we kiss :kiss: his little butt and he gets anything he wants. :yes: Oh, did I say that he is loved. :milk: :love3:
Quote from: libby on February 20, 2016, 03:03:20 PM
:confused: I personally think reincarnation sounds better. :smile: By that I mean the idea that we can come back if we want to -- or not. (If at first you fail, try, try again.)
Reincarnation and time travel are my favorite science fiction subjects. I remember when I first read about the concept of time travel. I was working in a Bluefield Hospital while taking college classes part time, and was thumbing through a magazine and read a short story about a young man walking into the attic of a home and stepping back in time. I was fascinated. Still am. Especially since science (quantum theory) seems to indicate that human intention seems to influence the outcome of experiments ... hmmm ... I wonder... am I nutty? I dunno.
What time period would you like to come back to Libby?
Quote from: The Troll on February 20, 2016, 04:33:09 PM
Libby, what kind of an animal would you come back as. :confused: I think I would like to be like my cat. :kitty: He's loved, he gets the best medical care. He eats only the best and expensive food, because he won't eat anything else. :yes: He sleep all he wants to and anywhere he wants too. :sleeping: Let's face it, we kiss :kiss: his little butt and he gets anything he wants. :yes: Oh, did I say that he is loved. :milk: :love3:
If I had to choose an animal, I think I would choose a cat also. My cat, a female who is about 2 years old, is doing a very good job of training me. But my first choice would be to come back as me -- but a smarter me, especially in dealing with other people.
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 20, 2016, 09:12:00 PM
What time period would you like to come back to Libby?
Have to think about that ....
In the meantime, what about you? :smile:
Quote from: libby on February 20, 2016, 10:34:55 PM
. . .
In the meantime, what about you? :smile:
Personally, I'm not sure I'd be willing to come back to this place; within any time-period.
Knowing the struggles and strife that we have endured, and those that we are so hell-bent to repeat as a species, it all appears to be nothing short of a "been there, done that" moment. Repeated liberally.
Minus the ability to influence the outcomes with great and immediate impact, I'm skipping the whole "return of Palehorse" sequel - series. Once I'm done I expect to move on to bigger and infinitely better things in my existence. . . :reap: (Except for the occasional haunting and visitations that is. :carrot: )
GOD FACT
Exodus 4:18-31. God wanted to kill Moses. Why? Because Moses wasn't circumcised and this made God mad. :huh1: Yep, God was pissed :ogod: and wanted Moses dead. :huh1: But his family and friends got Moses drunk and down on the ground and circumcised poor old Moses. I guess God was into circumcising. :haha: I hope all of the guys here on earth are circumcised because God might be pissed. :ogod: But a record was made, it was the first circumcision party :party: here on earth. :groan: :bible: :bible: :bible: :bible: :bible: :bible: :bible: :bible:
Quote from: libby on February 20, 2016, 10:34:55 PM
Have to think about that ....
In the meantime, what about you? :smile:
I'd like to visit the Roaring 20's. Jazz, Louis Armstrong, Cab Calloway, speakeasies, Art Deco, and Coco Chanel. I find it an interesting period. I don't want to come back after I die, I'd just like to walk through a magic doorway and visit.
GOD FACTOID
Deuteronomy 12:11-12.
If two men and his countryman, are struggling together and the wife of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show mercy. :huh1: Give me a break. :rant:
If it happen to me, I would take her :love3: :vday: out for dinner and buy her something expensive. :yes: If I cut off her hand, I couldn't turn my back to her or go to sleep. :knife: :haha:
If I could visit a time period, I think I would choose about 1938-1950. So much happened in that time period. I was born in 1946 so I don't remember the world outside my little corner before 1950.
Why would none of you like to come back in the future?
Quote from: Locutus on February 26, 2016, 08:21:28 PM
Why would none of you like to come back in the future?
I would. Maybe 100-200 years in the future. Although I'm afraid I might be the only human there because of the way we have treated the earth. But hopefully people would have realized how bad global warming was getting and changed things. Hoping religion would be a thing of the past, too.
Quote from: Locutus on February 26, 2016, 08:21:28 PM
Why would none of you like to come back in the future?
As AbbyTC says - Religion and the impact of humanity upon the planet and its environment. . . :yes:
Quote from: Anne on February 26, 2016, 08:13:13 PM
If I could visit a time period, I think I would choose about 1938-1950. So much happened in that time period. I was born in 1946 so I don't remember the world outside my little corner before 1950.
I was born in 1937 and graduated in 1956. :smile: :yes: The 50's were my time. Sure had a good time with my fast muscle cars, fast boats, good music :music1: Rock and Roll, good beer and fast women. It sure was a :party2: No problem to find a good job and gas was cheap and fast food, McDonald's and Big Boy was cheap. I must say those were the best time in my life and I don't think the future for the young people will never be as good, never. And we can thank free trade for that. :'( :rant:
Quote from: AbbyTC on February 21, 2016, 09:03:31 PM
I'd like to visit the Roaring 20's. Jazz, Louis Armstrong, Cab Calloway, speakeasies, Art Deco, and Coco Chanel. I find it an interesting period. I don't want to come back after I die, I'd just like to walk through a magic doorway and visit.
I always wanted to visit the 1860's and see and after the Civil War. I also wanted to visit the 1940's.
Quote from: The Troll on February 20, 2016, 04:33:09 PM
Libby, what kind of an animal would you come back as. :confused: I think I would like to be like my cat. :kitty: He's loved, he gets the best medical care. He eats only the best and expensive food, because he won't eat anything else. :yes: He sleep all he wants to and anywhere he wants too. :sleeping: Let's face it, we kiss :kiss: his little butt and he gets anything he wants. :yes: Oh, did I say that he is loved. :milk: :love3:
I would want to come back as a horse. I guess because I have ridden horses all.my life and enjoy the beauty of a Thoroughbred and an Arabian horse. My horse growing up lived to 36 years old that is equivalent to 108 of a human.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on February 28, 2016, 01:36:01 PM
I would want to come back as a horse. I guess because I have ridden horses all.my life and enjoy the beauty of a Thoroughbred and an Arabian horse. My horse growing up lived to 36 years old that is equivalent to 108 of a human.
Yep, good care and love. :ride: Horsie :iloveyou:
Quote from: The Troll on February 28, 2016, 05:12:55 PM
Yep, good care and love. :ride: Horsie :iloveyou:
Hey now!
From the movie "The Island":
Lincoln Echo-Six: What's "God"?
McCord: Well, you know, when you want something really bad and you close your eyes and wish for it? God's the guy that ignores you.
:biggrin: :yes:
Problem is, the people who believe that shiz don't realize they're being ignored.
What a great god! He says that if your child talks back to you, stone her or him to death. If you see a person working on Sunday, stone them to death. If there is a guy who isn't circisized God would kill him and if your wife is not a virgin on your wedding night stone her to death and dump her on her father's door step. If you see a tribe you don't like, kill all the men, women, old people, children. The sheep, cattle, donkeys and burn everything down. But bring back all of the gold, silver, bronze and iron back to god's temple. :yes: What a wonderful, kind, loving and forgiving Lord. :haha: :haha: Give all of us a break. :preach: :pope: :pray:
Oh yes, the holy ghost :ghost: :bs:
Quote from: Locutus on March 06, 2016, 01:52:45 PM
:biggrin: :yes:
Problem is, the people who believe that shiz don't realize they're being ignored.
I remember being told that god would answer prayer in three ways: yes, no, wait. Problem is, that's not in the bible! Still haven't figured out where they came up with that one.
Quote from: AbbyTC on March 06, 2016, 04:07:22 PM
Still haven't figured out where they came up with that one.
That's the only one that covers all the bases and still allows them to believe they're not being ignored. :wink:
Quote from: Locutus on March 06, 2016, 04:20:12 PM
That's the only one that covers all the bases and still allows them to believe they're not being ignored. :wink:
;D
Quote from: AbbyTC on March 06, 2016, 04:07:22 PM
I remember being told that god would answer prayer in three ways: yes, no, wait. Problem is, that's not in the bible! Still haven't figured out where they came up with that one.
One day on television there was a preacher :preach: who said that if you prayed :pray: to god he could give you anything. :rolleyes: And if you prayed :pray: and you didn't get it, means that god didn't think you needed it or deserved it. :haha: :haha: :nowink: :jc:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 16, 2016, 01:33:46 PM
Just for the record, where do I talk about Christian values on here? Care to share? You guys like to act like I think I am Billy Graham on here....I think I display more non-Christian values than Christian values on here....and I am good with that.
I moved this over from the Republican topic since I didn't want us going off topic on that one.
I don't really know how many Christian values you have displayed here since I'm relatively new, but doesn't your religion desire you to display Christian values no matter where you are? Aren't you supposed to be showing god's love to the world? Despising people isn't a Christian value and definitely doesn't show god's supposed love.
This is why I don't understand Christians. They act one way with one group and another way with a different group. They tend to pick and choose out of the Bible what they want to believe and follow. All of this yelling about gay marriage being a sin, yet they divorce and remarry when the Bible clearly says that is a sin (unless it was caused by adultery). Why aren't any of them yelling about that? Sex before marriage is considered a sin, yet I know many Christians who have had sex before marriage.
One more thing, what makes a value "Christian"? Because an ancient book said so?
Quote from: AbbyTC on March 16, 2016, 09:21:20 PM
I moved this over from the Republican topic since I didn't want us going off topic on that one.
I don't really know how many Christian values you have displayed here since I'm relatively new, but doesn't your religion desire you to display Christian values no matter where you are? Aren't you supposed to be showing god's love to the world? Despising people isn't a Christian value and definitely doesn't show god's supposed love.
This is why I don't understand Christians. They act one way with one group and another way with a different group. They tend to pick and choose out of the Bible what they want to believe and follow. All of this yelling about gay marriage being a sin, yet they divorce and remarry when the Bible clearly says that is a sin (unless it was caused by adultery). Why aren't any of them yelling about that? Sex before marriage is considered a sin, yet I know many Christians who have had sex before marriage.
One more thing, what makes a value "Christian"? Because an ancient book said so?
Great statement. I guess that is why I don't like having religion shoved down my throat and why I don't shove my religious beliefs down anyone's throat.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on March 16, 2016, 09:57:44 PM
Great statement. I guess that is why I don't like having religion shoved down my throat and why I don't shove my religious beliefs down anyone's throat.
Also did you know that Atheist have a lower rate of divorce than Christians. :wink: Also that Atheist know more about what is said in the Bible than Christians. :yes:
It goes to show you that Christians are not too intelligent or smart. :haha: Somebody say Amen! :pray:
Won't give you an "Amen!" but I'll give you a holy ghosty! :ghost: :biggrin:
Quote from: AbbyTC on March 16, 2016, 09:21:20 PM
I moved this over from the Republican topic since I didn't want us going off topic on that one.
I don't really know how many Christian values you have displayed here since I'm relatively new, but doesn't your religion desire you to display Christian values no matter where you are? Aren't you supposed to be showing god's love to the world? Despising people isn't a Christian value and definitely doesn't show god's supposed love.
This is why I don't understand Christians. They act one way with one group and another way with a different group. They tend to pick and choose out of the Bible what they want to believe and follow. All of this yelling about gay marriage being a sin, yet they divorce and remarry when the Bible clearly says that is a sin (unless it was caused by adultery). Why aren't any of them yelling about that? Sex before marriage is considered a sin, yet I know many Christians who have had sex before marriage.
One more thing, what makes a value "Christian"? Because an ancient book said so?
Henry? Are you out there? :) I was hoping for a response to this. Shouldn't you display the same Christian values no matter where you are? And what about the other questions?
Quote from: AbbyTC on March 17, 2016, 01:43:26 PM
Henry? Are you out there? :) I was hoping for a response to this. Shouldn't you display the same Christian values no matter where you are? And what about the other questions?
Abby, the Bird (brain)Boy is only a Christian when he can pick and chose what he wants out of the bible. :trustme:
Most Christians are the same way Troll.
I don't mean to besmirch HH with that comment BTW. It would be interesting to see his answer to Abby's question though.
Heeeennnnnnry! I'd really like to have an answer! :yes:
Okay, been very busy lately Abbey...and thinking about how I should answer this...
First of all, I will admit, I am NO AMBASSADOR of Christianity. So I am going to answer this through MY EYES.
I believe God used Jesus, to set the example of how we should want to live our lives. Being human and flawed as we are, we as a group, can NEVER be like Jesus.
What is wrong with practicing the laws that Jesus gave us, the examples he gave us, to strive towards that?
I know that I cannot even come remotely close to him....and I am as flawed as the next guy. I allow too much of my human emotion to say and do things I sometimes regret. Such as despising anyone, like Hillary.... I'm not sure what that really means, other than I completely disagree her ideology and what she stands for. Do I want her to die? NO. But, I do not want her to be my next POTUS. Maybe despise is the wrong word, but it is a word that makes me feel better when I say it... :yes:
I don't think it is being un-Christian, to NOT LIKE someone. I think we can love and still not like. Two completely different emotions.
Now, with all that being said.......I want to share some personal thoughts, and that most people on here have characterized me into what they believe me to be.
I am not a regular Church-goer. I have been a half dozen times in the last 6 years. I too, have problems associating with many, many so-called Christians. I know too many that are extremely judgemental and are flat out assholes. They couldn't love their neighbor if their life depended upon it.
That doesn't mean there cannot be some amazing folks who thrive to be as much like Jesus as they can be....I know a "few" people who are the epitome of what I think a good Christian should be.
I cuss (not a lot, but I do), I drink beer (on occasions), I get angry, and I say things I sometimes regret.
Getting to your question.....Values.
It is my belief that MOST of the values, we as Americans, are based upon Biblical teachings. The fact is, that the vast majority of our forefathers were God-fearing people. It isn't really much to argue about. That doesn't mean they didn't sin. Adultery has been around since the beginning of time. I agree too that Christians tend to be easy targets for hypocrisy (like sex before marriage as you pointed out)....many eyes are upon them, ready to attack....and justifiably so.
My stance on homosexuality is this. It is MY belief, that it is wrong....but, so is a number of other things that we ALL are guilty of. Is being gay MORE of a sin, than lying? I don't see where it is in the Bible that says this sin is worse than this sin.........So, I will NOT judge if two people of the same sex want to marry..that is between them and God, imo....
I get angry at the flamboyant gays, who choose to parade down the street, protesting, wearing flamboyant clothing telling me that I MUST accept them. I would get just as angry if at A-Hole Christians do the same, like those from Westboro Baptist Church...I imagine God rolling His eyes and being very disappointed in them.....and I think, they will have as much if not more to answer to than anyone....
None of this hampers my relationship with God. I believe with all of my soul, He exists, as described in the Bible. I believe, that Jesus IS indeed the Son of God, as described in the Bible.
I think, as a whole, Christianity is amazing and that an extreme amount of great things has been accomplished because of these people........millions upon millions of dollars has been given to help "the least of these". Many of these folks spend week, month and years of their lives to aid others, because of their faith in God.
Yes, I understand why it has a bad name to many, but it seems like many people use those bad people to tarnish those who are very good, people, in the name of Christ.
I'm not even in the same league as many Christian I know.....I fall way short, but I do try hard to be a better person.......it is an ongoing process for me.
Not sure if I answered you.........and I fully expect to get peppered back by a few on here........but, I'm good with that........I have been here since the beginning.....and even though I may appear not to like some, that is far from the truth.......I have befriended many on here, and even those I haven't personally met, I think I would get along with them just fine. :yes:
one more thing..........I STILL despise Hillary :yes:
:huh1: Let's see, homophobic :bible: sinner :sinner: Republican hater racist. O0 :yes: :ogod: I hope you don't die quick Bird Boy, so you can ask Jesus for forgiveness :jc: :nowink:
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS 8:OO pm
Mike Pence's plane runs off airstrip. :yes: Maybe his god is telling him not to fly as long as he is with Trump. :flap: :nowink: :jc: :grin2:
Quote from: The Troll on October 27, 2016, 08:15:21 PM
Mike Pence's plane runs off airstrip. :yes: Maybe his god is telling him not to fly as long as he is with Trump.
Totally Hillary's doing. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on October 28, 2016, 08:22:37 AM
Totally Hillary's doing. :icon_twisted:
You got that right, Hillary emailed the flight controls on that plane and it went of the runway. :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Thanks Obama! ;D