God sucks!

[Henry Hawk]

Okay, guys...It seems like I have been down this road about a zillion times....and, I have NEVER claimed to know ALL the answers about the mysteries of God.  I have my very strong AND passionate belief....Dan, I see NO use in exchanging conversation about Christianity, because I can NEVER say ANYTHING that will change your mind, NOR, will anything by you can be said that will influence my thoughts.....you have said about everything that can be said....and it has only confirmed my faith even more....I can say, that I am much stronger now, than I was a couple of years ago....

Too me, my faith in God and Christ, is a very personal and SOLID part of everything I am....

Piya, do you honestly believe, that it is "lights out" when you die?  That is it?...this life is just what it is....and BAM.... OVER?

Bevis, I don't think there are words I can say, that will ever change your mind.....and, that is not up to me.....IF I sound a little "heretical" to you....then you are not understanding what my point is...and, I may never have the words to tell you..

I am probably not a good person to argue Bibical issues....I am a novice, at best, on the Bible...It is becoming more and more understandable to me...and I'm finding it is NOT as complicating as I used to think it was.....but, I'm NOT in a position to argue nor do I really have the desire to argue.....I can always share what faith has done for me personaly....but, that is about as far as I am even going to TRY to take this issue from this point on.

[Bo D]

Maybe that's wishful thinking because people are uncomfortable with the thought of "lights out", that's it, it's over, rather than living on in some eternal place - good or bad or indifferent.

There is another possibility. The atoms that make up your body don't die. They eventually become part of something else, possibly part of another living being.

Some even say that at some point in your life, you have breathed in atoms exhaled by Caesar when he spoke his dying words, "Et tu, Brute?"

Just a thought.

[Sandy Eggo]

That's a cool thought. I like that.

[followsthewolf]

Kind of like saying, "We return to the Earth from whence we came," eh?

The old "atoms to atoms, dust to dust," except in a bit more musing and poetic form.

Or, as we used to chant in grade school:

            The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out --
            The worms play pinochle on your snout

It's poetic, too, except it's a bit more crass.

[Bo D]

I think that it shows how we are interconnected to everything and everbody.

[Bo D]

            The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out --
            The worms play pinochle on your snout

The eagle picks my eye
The worm he licks my bone
I feel so suicidal
Just like dylan's mr. jones

[Palehorse]

Within a physical sense I guess I can agree with that; but on a spiritual plane I have to think there is a lot more than what most of us suspect.

Just why is it do you think, that humankind has so fervently followed such an obvious lever created to control it? Namely religion. . . It is because deep down inside our spirits long for what comes after the earthly plane upon which we physically exist. Our spiritual selves suffer from a form of amnesia in that we cannot recall lucidly that from whence our spirits came prior to this physical existence. At least not in the case of the spiritual majority anyway. Some of us can go there too; in fact most of us have that ability but societal pressures have driven us to repress it out of fear of being ostracized by the controlling majority amongst us.

We know it is wonderful, we know it is a very different type of freedom and existence than that which our physical selves can conceive of. And it is our spiritual selves that cry out for something more than what we can experience within the physical world, and it is just that longing that drives us to be prone toward latching onto religion as a form of panacea with which to placate that longing and give it direction.

For centuries the masses have been conditioned increasingly by the onslaught of the human God(s); Buddha, Mohamed, Jesus Christ, Jim Jones, David Koresch. (sic?). Each of these religious figures has, or has had, its following and as humanity increasingly becomes disillusioned with the human Gods it leaves them open for the likes of some of these sects as their spiritual voice cries out for direction and freedom.

I find it quite amusing to observe humanity as it creeps and crawls about, seeking spiritual guidance from some outward source, and failing time and time again. Christianity is one of the more successful of these endeavors in that it has been providing humankind's greediest with a means to control the masses and bend them to their personal will for increasing levels of wealth and power, for centuries now.

Utilizing everything from statements claiming devine guidance toward interpretation of God's word, (according to humankind:written, edited, and assembled by same), to threats of eternal damnation in the fires and brimstone of hell; these men and women lead the masses about the world by the short hairs. And they go without so much as a bleat.

Instead of looking for some kind of deliverance from an external source, humanity would be much better served, and a damned sight more successful, by seeking this spiritual guidance from within; from the spirit that is the eternal portion of your current physical makeup.  Listen to yourselves people, and stop listening to the wolves in the shepherds clothing claiming to be your deliverers! They are nothing more than your own doom personified, with no other purpose than to utilize you as a means with which to feed their own greed and further restrict your spiritual freedom via utilization of brow beating and fear mongering, just as they and their kind have done since humankind first became aware.

Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit. Then learn to listen to it. Instead of spending Sundays at, and feeding, humankind's money machine, spend it within your own home, or at a secluded and quiet space where you can truly look within and hear yourself; and see the truth that has been there since the moment when your physical and spiritual selves were united within the context of that first breath.

It is not "God the Creator" that is sucking here, but rather I would submit it is the shortfalls of the "God of Humankind's Creation". And it is sucking because this God is very much like us and "his" words, written by HIS creator, (humankind), even go so far as to tell us that by saying "we" were created in his own image. This human God is a vengeful, bitter, greedy, and self-serving God. Those that know "him" are the Jerry F's, ET AL of the world that know how to utilize this human created tool to amass the personal wealth and power it was created to generate in the first place.  

Back in the day, events like the LA Riots were a common thing, and they caused the rulers of humanity to experience the drizzles every time they transpired. They needed a way to control these things, and along came "God" and the "men" that could communicate with him. Some of these guys weren't dummies and they had already gone about teaching themselves about the sun, moon, stars; and a select few eventually learned to predict solar eclipses or other such celestial events.

Some of them had an idea and used these little secrets to demonstrate to the rulers that they indeed had the ear of the creator by making demands and threatening a divine event as a sign that unless they complied an even worse fate would await them. (Solar eclipse).
The rest is history, and if you don't believe it do a little research. While the kings and queens of those days may have been fat and sassy, when the robe wearers showed up they got real contrite until Ol Henry decided to test them. Successfully, among others.

Those robe wearing pigs eventually figured their power was rapidly leaving them and along came the sweet baby Jeebus hanging on the cross story and his followers; and with it an opportunity with which to build an even more and powerful tool with which to wield their power and control the masses; the bible.

Now, while I may have my timeline a little askew in the above I believe you get the gist of what I am saying here. God sucks because that "God" isn't the creator, it is the human God of human creation, and as such flawed.

Do I believe in a creator, higher being, or whatever terminology you'd like to use for it? Yes I do. But, not the one the world has created and uses to instill fear, forced compliance, and to amass personal wealth and power with. No friggin way! That God sucks!

[Bo D]

Thank you, PH!

In a way (far more crudely than you just outlined it) I think I am trying to say something similar.

Jack London wrote a book called "Before Adam" in which he detailed flashbacks to a time when he was "another being" what ever that was.

And Carl Jung hypothesized a sort of "racial memory" in which our very atoms have memories. I believe he called it the collective unconscious.

If we, as you say, "Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit." maybe we can get in touch with that collective unconscious.

[Palehorse]

Thank you, PH!

In a way (far more crudely than you just outlined it) I think I am trying to say something similar.

Jack London wrote a book called "Before Adam" in which he detailed flashbacks to a time when he was "another being" what ever that was.

And Carl Jung hypothesized a sort of "racial memory" in which our very atoms have memories. I believe he called it the collective unconscious.

If we, as you say, "Seclude yourselves and learn to hear that inner voice that is your true spirit." maybe we can get in touch with that collective unconscious.

. . . and only therein will we find ourselves, our truths, and our creator! 

[Palehorse]

. . .
Jack London wrote a book called "Before Adam" in which he detailed flashbacks to a time when he was "another being" what ever that was.

And Carl Jung hypothesized a sort of "racial memory" in which our very atoms have memories. I believe he called it the collective unconscious.

. . .

Thank you Bo! I'll read up on the two things you've mentioned. It's going to be a long winter and adding these two things to my list of winter reading will bring some flavor to the season for me. 

[Bo D]

Thank you Bo! I'll read up on the two things you've mentioned. It's going to be a long winter and adding these two things to my list of winter reading will bring some flavor to the season for me. 

I hope I didn't misrepresent them. It's been more than 35 years since I read them. But as you can probably tell, they made an quite an impression on me.

[Locutus]

Bump for mcgonser. 

[Locutus]

And after the almost 2 years that this thread has been going, I still think God sucks. 

I can't believe some of us have been hanging out around her for so long.

[mcgonser]

Well, I don't think God sucks. I believe in him, his son and his word., Amen

[dan foster]

And after the almost 2 years that this thread has been going, I still think God sucks. 

I can't believe some of us have been hanging out around her for so long.

It is obvious to many that the "god" of the bible really does suck (although imaginary).  So, how is it that people can be led to believe, or still believe after the age of 12?

I have come to understand how it is humans are predisposed to believe (genetically), but I still can't quite get my hand on how they can be convinced to not "give it up".  After all, they have to not want to believe to break the mind fuck (yep, this is still unmoderated) that IS religion.  An addict won't quit until they WANT to quit.  Same with a believer.  So, I guess through lack of education, lack of intellectual curiosity, or just out of plain laziness (it is easier to believe than to not believe), they plod happily along in their delusion.  So, yeah, god sucks, but like a beaten puppy, the easily amused just keep going back for more.  Maybe there is something of a victim complex at work, or as one of the genetic code's masters (Jared Diamond) put it; people are still trying to please their father (a heavenly one will do the trick)?

NOTE: Stewart Guthrie is the other genetic code master with his explanation in Faces in the Clouds.  Diamond wrote The Third Chimpanzee.