God sucks!

[Exterminator]

aren't dogs great...

They're the best!

[Locutus]

Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to.

But that doesn't make it any more true than the other two stories.  I can make that same claim about Santa and the Mormon's story.  Those other stories have also stood up for numerous years and will continue to do so.

There really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory.

But why not?  There isn't one shred more evidence that your story is right than there is that Santa Claus exists or that the claims made in the Book of Mormon are correct.  Why does your fairy tale get a pass while you so quickly dismiss the fairy tales of others?

My main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong???? Why worry if I am delusional? Its no skin off your back. Leave me in peace and I will leave you in peace. God loves you and me!

I'm not picking I fight with you at all.  I'm trying to make a cogent argument based on facts, evidence, and logic.  There isn't one shred of evidence supporting your fairy tale, but there's quite a bit of science upon which I base my beliefs. 

[mcgonser]

I'm not picking I fight with you at all.  I'm trying to make a cogent argument based on facts, evidence, and logic.  There isn't one shred of evidence supporting your fairy tale, but there's quite a bit of science upon which I base my beliefs. 

Ah!!!theres the rub, there comes a time when you have to let the heart in and accept things thru pure faith of belief.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are you saved thru faith, not of yourselves in case any man should boast. It is a gift from God

[Locutus]

Ah!  But if you let the heart in, close your mind, and just believe by faith, ole' Santa will slide his merry arse down your chimney next Christmas.

[mcgonser]

It is a combination of the mind and the heart silly,

[Locutus]

It is a combination of the mind and the heart silly,

Ok. Let your heart fool your mind into believing something it shouldn't and ole' Santa will still slide his merry arse down your chimney next Christmas.

But I digress.  What about the Mormon example?  Why is your tale to be believed any more than theirs is?

[mcgonser]

I can't comment on the Morman belief/ don't know enough about it.

[Locutus]

But you commented on Santa Claus, didn't you?  I laid out the basic tenants of the Book of Mormon previously.  You have no comment on that?

[DannyBoy]

I sense a lot of fear and anger in you Mr. Borg.....The Dark Side consumes you.

[Locutus]

Then simply state your case and present your evidence that your "sense" is correct. I'm all ears.

I would also be interested in hearing your thoughts as to the ongoing conversation regarding Santa, Mormons, and Christians insofar as facts, evidence, and logic are concerned.

[DannyBoy]

That was more of a wise ass comment than anything else but.....

In my experience.....my fears usually materialize themselves to the outside world as anger.  I will be afraid that I am getting screwed, that I am missing out on something, that I am not going to get what I want, that I am not getting what I deserve, that people don't like me, that I am somehow inferior, that somebody else is getting what should be mine, etc, etc.....I will get a resentment towards that person, place, or thing and I will act out, usually in anger.....Criticizing or doing anything I can to tear it down just to make me feel like I am right and it is wrong.  Self-centered, self-seeking, ego-maniac, with low self-esteem.....and it all can generally be boiled down to a fear of something.  That is just how I am wired.  It is a constant struggle...(you could say I am now attacking you...hahaha).


I do not consider myself a religious person.  I have my own faith in God as I understand him.  I practice the 'christian' model because it suits me and I believe it is the right way to live our lives.  I believe that practicing the Goldern Rule, doing service for others, and just simply trying to be a nice person is a good way to live life.  The vast majority of the people I come across in the christian church share those same beliefs so we have something in common, a fellowship....we become friends and people we can share our lives with.  I see nothing but good that can come from this.

I can't comment on other 'religions' because I have never been overly exposed to them, I have never studied them, nor do I have any interest to.  There are many stories that I believe to be ludicrous, but if someone has faith and belief in them that is their business.  I like to think of the many different belief systems (religions) are like the spokes of a wheel....they all lead to the core where there is 'good'.

I am a trekkie but I don't believe that eons ago our great-great-great-great......ancestors were single celled organisms swimming around in a pool of primordial ooze.  There was some divine intervention somewhere along the way.

What's wrong with Santa anyway.....he's not hurting anybody.

[Locutus]

That was more of a wise ass comment than anything else but.....

That's what I thought.  Just checkin' though. 

In my experience.....my fears usually materialize themselves to the outside world as anger.  I will be afraid that I am getting screwed, that I am missing out on something, that I am not going to get what I want, that I am not getting what I deserve, that people don't like me, that I am somehow inferior, that somebody else is getting what should be mine, etc, etc.....I will get a resentment towards that person, place, or thing and I will act out, usually in anger.....Criticizing or doing anything I can to tear it down just to make me feel like I am right and it is wrong.  Self-centered, self-seeking, ego-maniac, with low self-esteem.....and it all can generally be boiled down to a fear of something.  That is just how I am wired.  It is a constant struggle...(you could say I am now attacking you...hahaha).

No worries.  I didn't view that as an attack at all.  I just found the "anger" retort interesting.  It seems that those of the Christian persuasion who post on these forums often use the adjective angry when replying to atheists.  That mean ole' atheist person doesn't believe in god so he must be angry about something, or there must be something wrong with him.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

I do not consider myself a religious person.  I have my own faith in God as I understand him.  I practice the 'christian' model because it suits me and I believe it is the right way to live our lives.  I believe that practicing the Goldern Rule, doing service for others, and just simply trying to be a nice person is a good way to live life.  The vast majority of the people I come across in the christian church share those same beliefs so we have something in common, a fellowship....we become friends and people we can share our lives with.  I see nothing but good that can come from this.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the golden rule and you won't find any disagreement here.  My position is that the golden rule does not need any religion as a premise.   Morality and the common good don't need religion to be their precursors.  Never have, and never will. 

I can't comment on other 'religions' because I have never been overly exposed to them, I have never studied them, nor do I have any interest to.  There are many stories that I believe to be ludicrous, but if someone has faith and belief in them that is their business.  I like to think of the many different belief systems (religions) are like the spokes of a wheel....they all lead to the core where there is 'good'.

No problem here either, but my question is to those who tout their religion hither and yon on the Internet, but who have never taken the time to even study other religions let alone delve into the background and history of their own.  That's the problem.  There have been people on this very thread who have said that their belief in god and Jeebus is different than a belief in Santa Claus, yet not a shred of evidence exists to prove either.  Ergo, there is no difference. 

I am a trekkie but I don't believe that eons ago our great-great-great-great......ancestors were single celled organisms swimming around in a pool of primordial ooze.  There was some divine intervention somewhere along the way.

Welcome to the Zone fellow trekkie.     There is a difference in you and me my friend.  I don't believe in anything absolutely unless it can be absolutely proven. 

What's wrong with Santa anyway.....he's not hurting anybody.

Not at the surface, but why do parents feel the need to lie to their children?  Why would a parent expect their older children, or tweens, or teenagers, to believe them when the parents introduced the charade of Santa into their belief system as a toddler?

Let's take it another step further.  I posit that many devout Christians are devout only because that's the ONLY thing they were exposed to as children.  That's their comfort (and fear) zone and they can't find it in themselves to question something that's been ingrained in their psyche for as long as they can remember.

Santa in and of himself can't do much harm, but society propagating obvious lies to future generations, even if they are as innocuous as Santa and the church seem to be, can only continue to post problems for future generations. 

[Henry Hawk]

tell me..who ever said that God's love is unconditional?

[Exterminator]

In my experience.....my fears usually materialize themselves to the outside world as anger.  I will be afraid that I am getting screwed, that I am missing out on something, that I am not going to get what I want, that I am not getting what I deserve, that people don't like me, that I am somehow inferior, that somebody else is getting what should be mine, etc, etc.....I will get a resentment towards that person, place, or thing and I will act out, usually in anger.....Criticizing or doing anything I can to tear it down just to make me feel like I am right and it is wrong.  Self-centered, self-seeking, ego-maniac, with low self-esteem.....and it all can generally be boiled down to a fear of something.  That is just how I am wired.  It is a constant struggle...(you could say I am now attacking you...hahaha).

All religion is entirely fear based.  People are afraid of the probability that when they die, life simply ends and so they make up all of this ridiculousness to convince themselves that there's something else waiting.  How much do you remember about when you're asleep?  Remove dreams and that's what you have to look forward to in the 'hereafter'...nothing...no god, no heaven or hell; it just stops.

As far as christianity being a good way to live your life, that is certainly true but it doesn't require religion, only common sense.  I'm certain that my dogs have no concept of geebuz but they don't go around biting each other simply because it isn't that much fun and it hurts...same as us humans.  A church also isn't a requirement in building a social network unless you are so inept at meeting people that you feel compelled to pay to do so.

[Exterminator]

Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to.

The bible can't even maintain consistency within itself.  That millions of people are gullible enough to believe it doesn't make it true.  A lot of you still maintain that Bush was a good president despite his record of abject failure.

There really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory.

I'll bet Santa is mentioned in more books than god or Jesus; is that the litmus test of credulity?

My main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong????

Absolutely.  Could it be possible that you are?