God sucks!

[Locutus]

It is obvious to many that the "god" of the bible really does suck (although imaginary).  So, how is it that people can be led to believe, or still believe after the age of 12?

Indeed!  And how can they be so protective of their own fairy tale, while being so dismissive of the fairy tales of others. 

I have come to understand how it is humans are predisposed to believe (genetically), but I still can't quite get my hand on how they can be convinced to not "give it up".  After all, they have to not want to believe to break the mind fuck (yep, this is still unmoderated) that IS religion.  An addict won't quit until they WANT to quit.  Same with a believer.  So, I guess through lack of education, lack of intellectual curiosity, or just out of plain laziness (it is easier to believe than to not believe), they plod happily along in their delusion.  So, yeah, god sucks, but like a beaten puppy, the easily amused just keep going back for more.  Maybe there is something of a victim complex at work, or as one of the genetic code's masters (Jared Diamond) put it; people are still trying to please their father (a heavenly one will do the trick)?

NOTE: Stewart Guthrie is the other genetic code master with his explanation in Faces in the Clouds.  Diamond wrote The Third Chimpanzee.

Perhaps this explains it.  From the dictionary:

de·lu·sion       (dĭ-lōō'zhən)  Pronunciation Key
n. 

1. The act or process of deluding.
2. The state of being deluded.
3. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
4. Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.

I think that fits quite nicely and is very apropos. 

[mcgonser]

GOD Loves you!

[Locutus]

In answer to that, I think the line from Dan's signature says it best:

"Eternal damnation and punishment awaits those who question God's unconditional love." -Bill Hicks

[Henry Hawk]

In answer to that, I think the line from Dan's signature says it best:

"Eternal damnation and punishment awaits those who question God's unconditional love." -Bill Hicks

the words unconditional love are not used in Scripture in either the Old or New Testaments.. ..the Bible is quite clear..it IS a conditional love...based upon His terms...

John 8:31-32 (NIV) ...Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

He loves the unlovable and gives His glory to them. God's love is completely undeserved. God's love is unfailing for those in whom He delights....For God so loved the world He gave His one and only Son....

Jesus said in Luke 13:3 "...If you do not repent, then you will all perish..."

definitely a CONDITIONAL love.......Hicks got it ALL wrong..

sorry, got a little carried away there....

[Locutus]

What if I tell you the following:

• There is a jolly old man on the north pole who is plump and wears a red suit.
• This man has a cadre of elves who toil all year long making presents for children.
• On Christmas, he jumps in a sleigh propelled by eight reindeer.
• Over the course of one night, he circumnavigates the globe and delivers presents to all the children, landing his sleigh on the roof, and sliding his plump arse, sack and all, down the chimney.
• When he's done, he returns to the North Pole to start working on next years presents.

I'm an adult and what if I told my friends that I believe this story to be true with all my heart?  Furthermore, I try and convince you that I'm right, and attempt to change your mind as to your beliefs and make you believe the story.  What would you think of me?  You would say that I was off my rocker and rightfully so.   

Furthermore, you may try and convince me that I'm wrong by citing certain evidence.

• Reindeer are make believe you tell me.
• "How does he get into the houses without a chimney?", you ask.
• What if there's a fire in the fireplace?  Wouldn't he catch on fire?
• How does he know whether or not the children have been bad or good?
• How is he fast enough to visit all the children in the world on one night?

I have one simple answer to all your questions.  That is, you just have to believe and have faith.  I wonder why you don't believe my story and you wonder how I can possibly be delusional (see above definition) in the face of the logical questions you just asked.

Yet you don't hold your religious beliefs under the same light of scrutiny that you do the story of Santa Claus.  Why?

[mcgonser]

Because it is true that there is a God. Not true that there is a Santa Claus even though it is a nice story. Seems to me that people believe what they want to anyway. I haven't tried to tell yoou what to think, just what I believe. Why is that such a problem for you? Me thinks maybe you do protest too much. JMO

[Locutus]

Because it is true that there is a God. Not true that there is a Santa Claus even though it is a nice story. Seems to me that people believe what they want to anyway. I haven't tried to tell yoou what to think, just what I believe. Why is that such a problem for you? Me thinks maybe you do protest too much. JMO

It's not a problem for me.  The problem is that you, and countless others like you, can't seem to discern the difference between the delusion of your big man in the sky and the delusion of Santa Claus.   Your god and Jeebus story don't stand up to the light of scrutiny any more than ole' Santa does. 

[Henry Hawk]

Yet you don't hold your religious beliefs under the same light of scrutiny that you do the story of Santa Claus.  Why?

I do not have a personal relationship with Santa Clause...I DO have with God....I have SEEN what God can do for humans...I have seen miraculous things done, on behalf of God....at least what I believe to be God....I can NEVER prove to you likewise, so I am not going down that path....

There have been MILLIONS, besides me to have encountered...Gods presence...The Bible, I BELIEVE, is not a fluke....It is TOO perfect with it's continuity and it's prophecies...

There is nothing I can say to change your mind Locutus....and I won't try.  I only wish that you could have experience God's Love....and His intervention....

my point IS, with Hicks's statement was..........Who SAID that God's love is unconditional...

Let me ask you this....what IS unconditional Love?

[Exterminator]

Let me ask you this....what IS unconditional Love?

It's what my dogs give me.

[Henry Hawk]

It's what my dogs give me.

aren't dogs great...

[Bo D]

aren't dogs great...

I love my dog!!!! 

[followsthewolf]

 

[Locutus]

I do not have a personal relationship with Santa Clause...I DO have with God....I have SEEN what God can do for humans...I have seen miraculous things done, on behalf of God....at least what I believe to be God....I can NEVER prove to you likewise, so I am not going down that path....

There have been MILLIONS, besides me to have encountered...Gods presence...The Bible, I BELIEVE, is not a fluke....It is TOO perfect with it's continuity and it's prophecies...

There is nothing I can say to change your mind Locutus....and I won't try.  I only wish that you could have experience God's Love....and His intervention....

my point IS, with Hicks's statement was..........Who SAID that God's love is unconditional...

Let me ask you this....what IS unconditional Love?

un⋅con⋅di⋅tion⋅al     [uhn-kuhn-dish-uh-nl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.   not limited by conditions; absolute: an unconditional promise.

love     [luhv]  Show IPA noun, verb, loved, lov⋅ing.
–noun
1.   a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2.   a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.

[Locutus]

I've seen arguments along these lines made other places and I wish I could find them because I'm sure I'm not doing them justice from memory. 

But I'll try my best to remember, and I'll throw in a bit of my own along the way, so let's take this a step further.

Suppose this is the story:

• One night, while sitting in my room, a blinding light appears.
• Coming forth from the light is an angel who tells me an incredible story.
• He tells me that there are golden plates buried on a hill in New York.
• The angel takes me there, and allows me to bring the plates home.
• The angel translates the contents of the plates for me which are written into a book.
• The angel disappears back from whence he came, taking the plates with him.
• The translation in my book tells the story of Jewish people who lived in the United States some 2,000 years ago.
• Jesus went an ministered to these people.

Now despite the fact that there's a book that makes that EXACT claim, Christians everywhere toss it out as the hogwash that it is.  They would ask some of the same questions that they ask in the Santa Claus example above.

• Where are the historical records of such a civilization?
• Where are the artifacts from the period?
• What did these people do?
• According to my book, they had large cities.  What happened to them?  Where's the evidence?

I tell you that the evidence is all there, we just haven't found it yet.  You continue to ask me logical questions, but I have an answer to all of them.  It wouldn't take you long to come to the conclusion again that I'm off my rocker. 

Christians obviously discount this story, however there are millions of Mormons who believe with all their hearts that the story is true despite the fact that there isn't one shred of evidence to support it.  Why?  Because they're delusional.

Why do Christians not hold their own religion to the same scrutiny with which they hold the Book of Mormon?

[mcgonser]

It's not a problem for me.  The problem is that you, and countless others like you, can't seem to discern the difference between the delusion of your big man in the sky and the delusion of Santa Claus.   Your god and Jeebus story don't stand up to the light of scrutiny any more than ole' Santa does. 

Yet this story, Bible, has stood up over thousands of years and will continue to. There really is no reference to Santa in the bible so i don't put them in the same cateragory. My main question is: Could it be possible that you are wrong???? Why worry if I am delusional? Its no skin off your back. Leave me in peace and I will leave you in peace. God loves you and me!