God sucks!

[followsthewolf]

WHERE????

[Locutus]

(CNN) -- The horrific events in Newtown are unfathomable. Asking "why?" is natural at times like this, but intuitively it is clear that there cannot be any good reason for what was truly a senseless massacre.

It is impossible not to grieve with the families in Newtown, Connecticut, who have experienced such tremendous loss, just as it is impossible to not hope for anything that can provide some comfort.

All of us who have had children in primary school at one time or another stopped in our tracks when we heard the news, just as President Barack Obama did, as we tried to imagine how we would have coped had something so horrendous happened in our own child's school.

But why must the nation grieve with God? After Newtown, a memorial service was held in which 10 clergy and Obama offered Hebrew, Christian and Muslim prayers, with the president stating: " 'Let the little children come to me,' Jesus said, 'and do not hinder them. For such belongs to the kingdom of Heaven.' God has called them all home. For those of us who remain, let us find the strength to carry on."

Why must it be a natural expectation that any such national tragedy will be accompanied by prayers, including from the president, to at least one version of the very God, who apparently in his infinite wisdom, decided to call 20 children between the age of 6 and 7 home by having them slaughtered by a deranged gunman in a school that one hopes should have been a place or nourishment, warmth and growth?

We are told the Lord works in mysterious ways but, for many people, to suggest there might be an intelligent deity who could rationally act in such a fashion and that that deity is worth praying to and thanking for "calling them home" seems beyond the pale.

Let me be clear that there may be many grieving families in Newtown and around the country who have turned to their faith for solace in this difficult time. No caring person would begrudge them this right to ease their pain. But the question that needs to be asked is why, as a nation, do we have to institutionalize the notion that religion must play a central role at such times, with the president as the clergyman-in-chief?

Since this tragedy, cable TV networks have been flooded with calls to faith and have turned to numerous clergy as if, as a matter of principle, they have something special or caring to offer. Often what they provide is quite the opposite.

On CNN the other day, Bishop Robert Wright of the Episcopal Diocese of Atlanta suggested that people who don't have faith in his deity can only go so far in our emotional capacities to love and forgive, that without faith "we lack the strength to take us the full way of ourselves, the best of ourselves."

Besides being offensive, this is nonsense. We don't need faith to empathize with the grieving in Newtown. We can feel real connections, whether we are parents, or neighbors of families, or simply caring men and women. And we can want to help simply because of our common humanity.

Why does television automatically turn to clergy for advice on how to meet our needs, spiritual or otherwise?

Later on television, I saw media Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who used to claim to be the personal spiritual guide of Michael Jackson, until that presumably became less sellable. I also once had the displeasure of debating him on the subject of evolution, which he essentially rejects, offering admonition to those who, with very good reason, may question a God who could willingly allow the slaughter of children. I would argue that times like these are very good times to question your faith in deities.

It gets worse. Television host and former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee suggested that because we are keeping God out of schools, the Deity chose not to stop the slaughter of these young innocents. (Or, to put it more bluntly, "If you don't invite me to the party, I will kill your kids!") If this were remotely believable, who would want to pray to such a fickle and pompous deity?

I feel particularly sad for the grieving parents who might not be Christian, Jewish or Muslim. Besides learning that they are somehow lacking in empathy or goodness or the ability to heal, little guidance is being provided to those who among them have decided that they cannot believe in a sometimes violent and irascible God or who in fact have found their faith in God in question as a result of this tragedy. For these people, as for me, the thought that God has "called their children home" is simply offensive.

Why can't we as a nation focus on consoling the families in their grief by focusing on the most important realities, the lives of the children they have lost, celebrating their memory and sharing our common love of family, of children, and of our common humanity and perhaps most importantly arguing that this tragedy may one day not be completely in vain: That a shocked nation might rationally decide that assault weapons are meant to kill many people in a short time, not to hunt for deer or defend one's home.

If instead of automatically assuming that prayers to a deity callous enough to allow this sickness, or worse, to encourage it out of divine retribution, are what families in grief need from their president and from the media, that we focused on rational grief counseling and community support, including better mental health care combined with sensible gun control, we as a society might ultimately act more effectively to stop this madness.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/26/opinion/krauss-grief-faith/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[Locutus]

Paraphrase of the above:

God sucks. 

[libby]

This is not about God; it's about religion:

It's from the On Faith page of the paper version of the Saturday Washington Post.

The rise of a new religious America

Charles C. Haynes is director of the Religious Freedom Education Project at the Newseum.

The first Hindu elected to the House of Representatives, Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, will take the oath of office in a few weeks, and she has chosen to place her hand on the Bhagavad-Gita, a sacred text of her tradition.

Meanwhile, the woman she replaces in congress, Mazie Hirono, will be sworn in as the first Buddhist elected to the U.S.Senate.

Welcome to the new religious America.

Religious diversity, of course, has long been part of the American landscape. But in 2012, religious minorities became newly visible and vocal in a society historically dominated by the symbols, values and leaders of the Protestant faith.

Now that Protestants are no longer in the majority -- as reported in a study released by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life in October -- even the term "religious minority" will need fresh definition in our newly minted minority-majority nation.

The elections of Gabbard and Hirono are just two of many recent signals that demographic shifts and changing attitudes are rapidly transforming America's increasingly crowded public square.

Consider, for example, that for the first time in our history, none of the presidential or vice-presidential candidates of either majority party was a white Protestant.

Even more remarkable, not only did the Mormon candidate receive nearly half of the popular vote, but Mitt Romney was also supported by many evangelical voters that polls previously told us would not vote for a Mormon.

Religious affiliation of (or lack of affiliation) is still a factor in public life, but the level of voter acceptance of candidates affiliated with historically unelectable faiths is growing.

When Congress convenes in January, significant numbers of politicians from groups with long histories of discrimination in America -- notably Jews, Catholics and Mormons -- will fill both chambers, many in leadership positions.

And let's not overlook the fact that the current U.S. Supreme Court is made of of six Catholic and three Jewish justices and -- another first -- no Protestants.

[The Troll]

  I sick and tired of the religious qualifications it takes to be in congress and the Supreme Court.  I wish everyone was an atheist.,  That sure would take god out of the laws they make. it sure would make more sense than it does not.   

[Palehorse]

Religion has no place in government. Absolutely NONE! 

[followsthewolf]

Despite the best efforts of our founding fathers, the zealots have persisted like an infection.

Whatever someone wants to believe privately is fine with me.

Keep your mouth shut about it publicly unless I ask about it, and I will grant the same favor.

Likewise, keep your legislation to yourself -- it is exactly what the fathers tried to prevent.

They knew full well that this kind of crap would persist if they allowed even the slightest intrusion.

There will NEVER be religious equality for ALL, only the fairly large sized groups that can exert some political pressure.

Two hundred years plus later we have the same obnoxious, evangelical, ear-torturing whrrrr--garrrrrrbbbble

Piffle-dink, I say. Piffle-dink.

[The Troll]

Despite the best efforts of our founding fathers, the zealots have persisted like an infection.

Whatever someone wants to believe privately is fine with me.

Keep your mouth shut about it publicly unless I ask about it, and I will grant the same favor.

Likewise, keep your legislation to yourself -- it is exactly what the fathers tried to prevent.

They knew full well that this kind of crap would persist if they allowed even the slightest intrusion.

There will NEVER be religious equality for ALL, only the fairly large sized groups that can exert some political pressure.

Two hundred years plus later we have the same obnoxious, evangelical, ear-torturing whrrrr--garrrrrrbbbble

Piffle-dink, I say. Piffle-dink.

  Right on brother Wolf, somebody say Amen and someone please past the plate.  Let us pray.   

[Locutus]

  Right on brother Wolf, somebody say Amen and someone please past the plate.  Let us pray.   

If you're passin' the plate, make sure it ends with me so I can take the money and run! 

[Palehorse]

If you're passin' the plate, make sure it ends with me so I can take the money and run! 

That plate comes round to me it had better have meat and cheese on it dammit. 

[Locutus]

[Locutus]

^^

Another fine Christian who doesn't seem to know much about the book with which they claim such a familiarity.

"Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;"  -- Jeremiah 22:13 (KJV)

[libby]

A young couple I know told this story about his father, Joe. Joe was a southern boy and a bit of a hell-raiser, but settled down once he married and had two children. Except for his likker. He used to go out to his workshop and loosen up with a drink or two or three, and one evening got so drunk he somehow started a fire that that quickly burned down the shed.  He came out of it singed and convinced that God had saved him for a purpose and that purpose was to spread the gospel to others.

So Joe convinced someone he knew to let him use a vacant store, rent free, for his church. He called and wrote everybody he knew, told them his story, and asked them to come to his church the next Sunday morning. His son and daughter-in-law went, and said he preached a fairly decent sermon. After a few more Sundays, Pastor Joe brought up the subject of tithing. After they left church that day, his son turned to his wife and asked her what tithing was. She told him, and he got very quiet. A day or two later, he looked at her and said, "So we'll be paying 10% of our income to my father?

They didn't go back, and apparently nobody else did, so that was the end of Joe's preachin' days.

[Locutus]

   

[Locutus]

You want a lesson in public relations in the social media age?  Look at Applebee's response to the above and do the exact opposite.