God sucks!

[Palehorse]

Then why not use our letters and numbers rather than what they were doing, or just normal language rather than a religious passage?

Holy hell. . .

[me]

Ya missed the quote of what the article said that they were writing.

[Palehorse]

This country has NO RELIGION!

It makes your position null and void. Useless.

What they were writing is the equivalent of "Jesus Saves" or "There is only one God".

(Why do I bother. . .)

[AbbyTC]

(Why do I bother. . .)

Some people will never get it, Palehorse.  Blinded by their own ignorance.   

[Palehorse]

Some people will never get it, Palehorse.  Blinded by their own ignorance.   

Indeed. . . 

[me]

This country has NO RELIGION!

It makes your position null and void. Useless.

What they were writing is the equivalent of "Jesus Saves" or "There is only one God".

(Why do I bother. . .)

Exactly. which if they had been writing "there is only one God" in cursive there would have been a left wing uproar over that and you know it. The lesson did not have to say what it did period. There and a lot of things not of a religious nature that could have been written.
Which country has no religion?

[The Troll]

  I just finished reading, "DIVINITY OF DOUBT" BY Vicient Bugliosi and it is one of the best books I have every read on religion and the case for atheisiam.  It is well written and well researched and quotes directly from the bible.  If you have any doubts about  God and religion here is the book to read. 

[libby]

  I just finished reading, "DIVINITY OF DOUBT" BY Vicient Bugliosi and it is one of the best books I have every read on religion and the case for atheisiam.  It is well written and well researched and quotes directly from the bible.  If you have any doubts about  God and religion here is the book to read. 

Troll, I think I'll take your word for it for now. Right now I'm slowly reading another book, and am trying to come to terms with my Southern Baptist religious upbringing and my interest in science.

As I have said here before, I grew up going to church. I started asking questions about religion when I was a girl, and my parents did not like that, so I just kept it to myself from then on. After my father died, I stopped going to church and moved further away from religion in general, but not my belief in God the Creator. Then, years later, a friend who knew I was an amateur astronomer gave me a book about Cosmology. The author: an agnostic. I found it fascinating.

Fast forward a few years: Someone referred me to another book, same subject, called The Cosmic Code, "... a quantum physics text written for the lay audience." It was, is, very slow reading, but I was encouraged when I read the following, which Albert Einstein wrote after his famous equation seemed to rule out God the Creator: "It seems hard to look in God's cards. But I cannot for a moment believe that he plays dice and makes use of "telepathic" means (as the current quantum theory alleges He does." --

Anyway, What does that make me? Maybe a Southern Baptist Agnostic? 

[Locutus]

Good words Libby.  Thanks for sharing that. 

I've divorced myself totally from any "god the creator," and am an atheist, but yours is an interesting position to take on things. 

[libby]

Good words Libby.  Thanks for sharing that.  :wink
I've divorced myself totally from any "god the creator," and am an atheist, but yours is an interesting position to take on things.

Thanks for the "good words" part, Locutus.  Here's somebody else's point of view (the agnostic I mentioned above):

"When giving public lectures on lectures on cosmology , I am often asked about my own religious convictions. On such occasions I sometimes tell a story about a theologian who is asked by an old friend, "Do you believe in God?"

The theologian replies, "I can answer you, but I promise that you won't understand my answer. Do you want me to go ahead?"

"Sure."

"OK, the answer is 'Yes.'"

The point of the story has to do, of course, with the preposterous ambiguity of such terms as "believe" and "God." And that is one reason why I try to avoid answering such questions. Nor do I see that a statement of my personal beliefs would do much to illuminate the issues under discussion in this book.

But, if only to avoid being coy about it, let me say that I'm an agnostic. The term is derived from the Greek agnostos, "unknowable." It was coined in 1869 by Thomas Henry Huxley, who sought to define his stance on religion in contributions to the Metaphysical Society, an organization of eminent English thinkers that met nine times a year to discuss philosophical and theological matters. Huxley meant it to oppose gnosticism, which asserts the primacy of mystical and esoteric faith over logic and reason. His position was comparable to that of Hume, who in the essay "Of Miracles" in his Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding writes that "a wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."

There are two varieties of agnosticism.

"Weak" agnosticism consists of suspending one's opinion as to the existence of God -- pending, I suppose, the introduction of further evidence. This  stance seems wishy-washy and probably deserves its dismissal by a contemptuous Friedrich Engels, as "shame-faced atheism."

My position is "strong" agnosticism. It denies that God's existence can ever be disproved. There are many definitions of God, some of which seem to say nothing at all about God except that he exists. I hold that is is impossible to disprove all these definitions. If, to take an extreme example, science were one day to establish beyond reasonable doubt that the universe was created by a mad scientist in a basement laboratory, it would still be possible to posit that the prior universe in which that scientist lived was created by God. Moreover, that scientist, regardless of his inhuman brilliance, would be unable, in principle, to prove that God does not exist -- or so I maintain. I might add that this view is not just a matter of logic-chopping, or a sly way of skirting theological issues. It is offered in good faith with an honest appreciation of the merits of religion, science, and reason. It's not just that I don't know, I assert that we cannot know.

Strong agnosticism is open to disproof. Were God to appear on Earth tomorrow and work convincing miracles --an act that would imply deplorable taste on his part, but which is possible -- then agnosticism, like atheism, would have been disproved.

As to the usefulness of these opinions of mine, I remain a skeptic.

-- Timothy Ferris, from his book The Whole Shebang, A State of the Universe(s) Report

Ferris is the bestselling author of Coming of Age in the Milky Way (winner of the American Institute of Physics Prize) and The Mind's Sky (named one of the best books of the year by The New York Times, among others).

An emeritus professor at the University of California, Berkley, he lives in San Francisco.   

[AbbyTC]

Thanks for the "good words" part, Locutus.  Here's somebody else's point of view (the agnostic I mentioned above):

There are two varieties of agnosticism.

"Weak" agnosticism consists of suspending one's opinion as to the existence of God -- pending, I suppose, the introduction of further evidence. This  stance seems wishy-washy and probably deserves its dismissal by a contemptuous Friedrich Engels, as "shame-faced atheism."

My position is "strong" agnosticism. It denies that God's existence can ever be disproved. There are many definitions of God, some of which seem to say nothing at all about God except that he exists. I hold that is is impossible to disprove all these definitions. If, to take an extreme example, science were one day to establish beyond reasonable doubt that the universe was created by a mad scientist in a basement laboratory, it would still be possible to posit that the prior universe in which that scientist lived was created by God. Moreover, that scientist, regardless of his inhuman brilliance, would be unable, in principle, to prove that God does not exist -- or so I maintain. I might add that this view is not just a matter of logic-chopping, or a sly way of skirting theological issues. It is offered in good faith with an honest appreciation of the merits of religion, science, and reason. It's not just that I don't know, I assert that we cannot know.

Strong agnosticism is open to disproof. Were God to appear on Earth tomorrow and work convincing miracles --an act that would imply deplorable taste on his part, but which is possible -- then agnosticism, like atheism, would have been disproved.

That was interesting.  Thanks for sharing that, Libby.  A few people think all agnosticism is wishy-washy and the person who states that they are agnostic simply don't want to choose sides on whether a god exists or not.  I personally am agnostic but with an atheistic leaning. 

I was brought up in an evangelical independent fundamentalist church.  If I ever questioned anything I was immediately told to "have faith" and "not to question god".  I was also brought up in an abusive home. Ironic, huh? Evangelical fundies are all about love and spreading Jesus' love.  I guess not in a family setting.   I believe abuse is common with fundamentalists.  I have no proof of it, but my belief. No amount of praying changed my home life and as an adult I ended up in an abusive marriage from a "godly" man.  No amount of praying changed that, either.  I was told that my abuse "happened for a reason" and I was told I might not now or ever know why god wanted me to suffer and go through that.  But I needed to believe he loved me and had great plans for me.  Wow.  God loved me so much he wanted me to go through hell on earth.  What kind of sicko is that?  Why does god need a child to suffer in order to fulfill his plans?  That will never make sense.  I finally started opening my eyes and left the church and then my marriage.  I had so many questions, but my circle of friends were all believers that thought (and still do) that I would come back to Jesus.  I knew I wasn't going back.  I was also fortunate to have a friend from college message me and after a while of messaging back and forth he told me he was an atheist.  I was so excited to finally have someone to talk to!  I think I drove him nuts with all the questions I asked, but he was quite patient and gave me a lot to think about.  (If he was going nuts with all my questions, he certainly hid it well!)  That's a little glimpse into my background and why I agree that "God sucks!"

[libby]

Thanks AbbyTC. You have a very interesting story -- I'm sorry about the abuse -- and I'm glad you joined us here.    

[The Troll]

That was interesting.  Thanks for sharing that, Libby.  A few people think all agnosticism is wishy-washy and the person who states that they are agnostic simply don't want to choose sides on whether a god exists or not.  I personally am agnostic but with an atheistic leaning. 

I was brought up in an evangelical independent fundamentalist church.  If I ever questioned anything I was immediately told to "have faith" and "not to question god".  I was also brought up in an abusive home. Ironic, huh? Evangelical fundies are all about love and spreading Jesus' love.  I guess not in a family setting.   I believe abuse is common with fundamentalists.  I have no proof of it, but my belief. No amount of praying changed my home life and as an adult I ended up in an abusive marriage from a "godly" man.  No amount of praying changed that, either.  I was told that my abuse "happened for a reason" and I was told I might not now or ever know why god wanted me to suffer and go through that.  But I needed to believe he loved me and had great plans for me.  Wow.  God loved me so much he wanted me to go through hell on earth.  What kind of sicko is that?  Why does god need a child to suffer in order to fulfill his plans?  That will never make sense.  I finally started opening my eyes and left the church and then my marriage.  I had so many questions, but my circle of friends were all believers that thought (and still do) that I would come back to Jesus.  I knew I wasn't going back.  I was also fortunate to have a friend from college message me and after a while of messaging back and forth he told me he was an atheist.  I was so excited to finally have someone to talk to!  I think I drove him nuts with all the questions I asked, but he was quite patient and gave me a lot to think about.  (If he was going nuts with all my questions, he certainly hid it well!)  That's a little glimpse into my background and why I agree that "God sucks!"

  I don't know your age, but I am 78years old and I think that children who were raised by people born during the worse part of the depression.  Were raised by parents who believe of beating the hell out of their kids.  My mother was two different people.   A god fearing church lady, the people of her church thought that butter couldm't melt in her mouth.  But at home when she came off the handle she would hit you with anything that was in her hand and I really mean anything.

  One of her favorite things to do was slap you across the side of the head and face until your head rang.  But then later tell you how she hated her dad when he slapped and beat her and her sisters.  But she would still do it to me and my two sisters.  She was a good mom until she got mad and that didn't take too much.  I and my younger sister more or less thought is was just a part of living with her.  My oldest sister took all of it too heart and she is still damage today by the treatment mom gave her.

  My dad was a kid that was from divorced mom and dad and was sent to live with his crazy grandmother and he had it really bad;  He talked how hungry and poor he and his brother had it.  He did spank me a couple of times, but I think it hurt him as much as it hurt me.  They are both gone, but I still would like to have them around, especially at Christmas. 

  As far as being a Agnostic, is just a cowardly Atheist.  If there is a god who watches you 24/7, 365 days a year, he knows damn well what you think of him.  Somebody say Amen.        and the holy ghost         

[Purplelady1040]

Abby, thanks for sharing your story.
I was raised in a Christian home but fortunately my parents weren't abusive or never said pray or any of that stuff.

[Henry Hawk]

All I am going to say is..........God doesn't suck.  PERIOD.  I couldn't imagine NOT having faith in Him.

This is NOT a bash against anybody else.....

Everybody has to come to terms with their own beliefs....I am 100% comfortable with my belief.