God sucks!

[Henry Hawk]

I don't understand why there has to be so much pain, suffering, torment and hatred in order to understand love.  I get where you are going with that, but it doesn't explain why a child would have to experience broken bones and extreme belittling and hatred so they could understand what love is.  What about a child that is abused to the point of death and the only thing they experienced was abuse?  They would have no concept of love.

Again, this is my opinion, based upon my experiences, studying, and living my life....I am NOT saying I know more or that THIS is the only way it has to be.....but, the way I take it is, that it would be easy if God just snapped His fingers and MADE everyone LOVE Him.  But I don't think that is what He wanted.  He WANTS us to know Him and Love Him.  A real, human love.  To know what love is, mankind had to experience a world full of sin and the natural order of things.  We as humans have emotions, just as God has. He understands pain and suffering.  It is there so that we may KNOW we can have an eternity of love, with no more pain and suffering.  THAT is what it is all about, according to God.  We may not like it or understand it, but THAT is how I believe it to be.
The time we have here on this earth is minuscule compared to eternity. 

And if I don't end up loving god, then I don't get to go to the place he prepared.  So then I get screwed in life today and the afterlife.  That's pretty shitty.

I don't know the answer to that....we have a loving and forgiving God....But He also says, If you don't know me, I won't know you.  You may get screwed, I don't know.  All I know is, THIS is the way I WANT to live...it is the way I want to raise my kids. When they become of age, they get to make their own decisions on this.

I don't think you did my experiment.  Did you stop doing all the things I listed?  Praying, worshiping, reading the bible, going to church.  That's the experiment.  Not doing any of those things, living life under your own control and being completely responsible for your own actions.  There's no difference!  My life is better as I no longer wait on a mythical being to solve my problems for me.  I wasted a lot of years doing that and had to rebuild my life because of it.

Then I guess I didn't do your experiment, and I'm pretty sure I won't.  I did go through a lengthy period of time right after my pastor died where I pretty much quit all of it.  But, after a spell, I was drawn back into my relationship with Him.  THAT is where I find my comfort and level of contentment. I can't imagine not believing.  It is part of who I am.
I'm sorry you feel as if you wasted years of your life....but you never know, you may get that "urge" once again.  Sometimes that is deeply embedded within you for a reason.
Hey if you are happy and content with this life, then my power to you.  I can only tell you how I feel about it.

Just curious, does this include Muslims and Jews? What about the person who worships nature as a god? Or is it only with the Christian god?

I can't answer that.  I cling to John 3-16. For God so loved the world, he begat His one and only Son, that whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.  THAT is what I get from the Bible..............But I will NEVER judge or try to tell anybody else HOW to believe.  I think God knows what He is doing....and He knows how to deal with everyone....Jews, Muslims, Indians, EVERY body.

And civil is good!

Yep! As long as everyone is civil, I love to talk about anything to everything....    But as you know, the Zone isn't always a Civil place...

[The Troll]

  If you read your Bible, you will find that your God is not good and kind.     He is mean, cruel, vengeful, killing millions of people each and every day.  Read your Old Testament and read how bad your God really is.  For your God says, he is the giver of pain and death.   

[AbbyTC]

Yep! As long as everyone is civil, I love to talk about anything to everything....    But as you know, the Zone isn't always a Civil place...

It can get heated at times.   

[libby]

Again, this is my opinion, based upon my experiences, studying, and living my life....I am NOT saying I know more or that THIS is the only way it has to be.....but, the way I take it is, that it would be easy if God just snapped His fingers and MADE everyone LOVE Him.  But I don't think that is what He wanted.  He WANTS us to know Him and Love Him.  A real, human love.  To know what love is, mankind had to experience a world full of sin and the natural order of things.  We as humans have emotions, just as God has. He understands pain and suffering.  It is there so that we may KNOW we can have an eternity of love, with no more pain and suffering.  THAT is what it is all about, according to God.  We may not like it or understand it, but THAT is how I believe it to be.
The time we have here on this earth is minuscule compared to eternity. 

I don't know the answer to that....we have a loving and forgiving God....But He also says, If you don't know me, I won't know you.  You may get screwed, I don't know.  All I know is, THIS is the way I WANT to live...it is the way I want to raise my kids. When they become of age, they get to make their own decisions on this.

Then I guess I didn't do your experiment, and I'm pretty sure I won't.  I did go through a lengthy period of time right after my pastor died where I pretty much quit all of it.  But, after a spell, I was drawn back into my relationship with Him.  THAT is where I find my comfort and level of contentment. I can't imagine not believing.  It is part of who I am.
I'm sorry you feel as if you wasted years of your life....but you never know, you may get that "urge" once again.  Sometimes that is deeply embedded within you for a reason.
Hey if you are happy and content with this life, then my power to you.  I can only tell you how I feel about it.


I can't answer that.  I cling to John 3-16. For God so loved the world, he begat His one and only Son, that whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.  THAT is what I get from the Bible..............But I will NEVER judge or try to tell anybody else HOW to believe.  I think God knows what He is doing....and He knows how to deal with everyone....Jews, Muslims, Indians, EVERY body.
Yep! As long as everyone is civil, I love to talk about anything to everything....    But as you know, the Zone isn't always a Civil place...

HH, without going into my own beliefs, which more or less reflect my Southern Baptist upbringing and lifelong interest in science, I'd like to ask your opinion of something that popped into my head immediately after watching Bill and Gloria Gaither last Saturday night.

Unlike previous programs and repeats, the entire hour was given to a young couple, Joey and Rory. She (Joey) had a beautiful voice, and was singing an old familiar hymn when I tuned in. The entire crowd, and Bill, were unusually subdued as she sang. About halfway through, Bill did a short interview with the two of them -- they talked about her battle with cancer and about faith in God and why bad things happen to good people like her (the mother of a baby girl). Then she sang more old timey hymns. The program ended about 10 minutes short of the usual hour, and Bill came back on and explained that the program we'd just seen was recorded a year ago and sadly, Joey lost her battle with cancer. 

Upon hearing that, I wasn't thinking, I was feeling -- the terrible sadness of realizing that beautiful young woman, a wife and mother, had died not long after that program.

And then, my first conscious thought was:  "Religion is the opiate of the masses," a paraphrase of something I was pretty sure Karl Marx wrote. When or where, I didn't remember, so I googled it. Here's the actual quote:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."

I'm not saying I think religion, any religion, is bad or good. I guess I think we all choose to believe what we can live with while trying to have a halfway happy life. 

[Exterminator]

Upon hearing that, I wasn't thinking, I was feeling -- the terrible sadness of realizing that beautiful young woman, a wife and mother, had died not long after that program.

Uh...she's not well but she's still alive.

[Henry Hawk]

  HH, without going into my own beliefs, which more or less reflect my Southern Baptist upbringing and lifelong interest in science, I'd like to ask your opinion of something that popped into my head immediately after watching Bill and Gloria Gaither last Saturday night.

Unlike previous programs and repeats, the entire hour was given to a young couple, Joey and Rory. She (Joey) had a beautiful voice, and was singing an old familiar hymn when I tuned in. The entire crowd, and Bill, were unusually subdued as she sang. About halfway through, Bill did a short interview with the two of them -- they talked about her battle with cancer and about faith in God and why bad things happen to good people like her (the mother of a baby girl). Then she sang more old timey hymns. The program ended about 10 minutes short of the usual hour, and Bill came back on and explained that the program we'd just seen was recorded a year ago and sadly, Joey lost her battle with cancer. 

Upon hearing that, I wasn't thinking, I was feeling -- the terrible sadness of realizing that beautiful young woman, a wife and mother, had died not long after that program.

And then, my first conscious thought was:  "Religion is the opiate of the masses," a paraphrase of something I was pretty sure Karl Marx wrote. When or where, I didn't remember, so I googled it. Here's the actual quote:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."

I'm not saying I think religion, any religion, is bad or good. I guess I think we all choose to believe what we can live with while trying to have a halfway happy life. 

Hi Libby,
Joey is still alive.  Not in very good shape, but still here.

As far as the Marx quote:  I think it is hard to disagree with that as a general statement.  It doesn't mean that Religion isn't real, or there is NO GOD.

We all have to find our way through this world and time we have on it.  I have a strong faith that God is very, very real.  I have experienced too much to think likewise.

In the case of Joey and Rory, their faith is keeping them strong though these rough times.....much like a drug, I guess....but if this is something they truly believe, and they are rising above all by their faith........it think it is a wonderful thing.

I also believe, that these two have had so many personal experiences that MADE their faith.  It is not just saying "I want to be religious" and BOOM you feel good.....It isn't just reading a Bible or listening to a preacher that gives us faith........it is real life experiences that develop faith.

[libby]

  What can I say? Thanks, guys.

[Exterminator]

What can I say? Thanks, guys.

It's easier for us to keep tabs on her since she is here in Indiana and in the news constantly.

[The Troll]

 

  Oh, oh yes, God is so wonderful, forgiving and helpful.    Just go to a children's hospital and see all of the crippled, sick and dying kids.  All of the prayers of all of the thousand of parents and friends going unanswered.  Just like all of the prayers of all the fans and friends of Joey going unanswered.  The so called God doesn't answer prayers or questions.  He's so loving to his flock.   

  Just another statement from that wonder and powerful God.      If you find your new wife not a virgin on your wedding night.  Stone her to death and cast her on her father's step.     Isn't that just wonderful of the forgiving lord.    You got to be brain dead to believe all of this bullshit.   

[Henry Hawk]

This is my example of what is not civil

[The Troll]

This is my example of what is not civil

  Henry, what is not civil about this?     It's the truth, taken directly from your bible.   Henry, you don't know shit about your bible, I don't think you read very much of it.     Henry if you have had a religious experience please  tell us about it.  You surly are proud of your god's intervention into your private life.   Come on Henry tell us and don't bullshit your way out of it.     I don't and probably no one else would believe you.  Even if your tongue was notarized. 

[Henry Hawk]

See....

[Henry Hawk]

and btw....the pope sucks.....

[Exterminator]

and btw....the pope sucks.....

Your preference for Trump over the pope speaks volumes about your feigned religious beliefs.   

[Henry Hawk]

Your preference for Trump over the pope speaks volumes about your feigned religious beliefs.   

says the atheist.