God sucks!

[lex]

I'm  busting chops because whenever a bad situation is made better, folks seem all to willing to credit a deity,  when they really ought to use their noodle and question why a kind and merciful deity would have allowed that shit to happen in the first place. 

"God/Jesus didn't stop the bad things from happening, Waaaaa!" Wow, for someone who doesn't believe in him, you people bitch and moan about him 10 times more than believers do when they don't get their way. Why don't you take 5 minutes and go bitch and moan about Buddah or Allah not dropping down out of a cloud and patching your flat tire next time instead of kicking Christians because they are meek dogs that don't bite your ass off when you kick them?

Well, the bad news for the Christians is this, it's not going to get any better for them. Asshats are going to be just what they are, asshats and they have found they can abuse Christians with impunity these days. The world really has went to shit and frankly I think it's about time.

The mystery of sin is coming about at full steam and guess what? Yeah, God's letting it, in fact I think he's loosed the throttle on it. I really hate to sound like these doom sayers that just annoy me to no end, but its all coming to a head. The tumblers have been falling in place for years and I have wonder what has held it all back for so long.

It's not your big fancy churches, or the big TV personalities, these I suspect are going down first. It's all pretty clear when you think about it. You people with your vulgarities, your thinly veiled hatred for Christians, this is just the beginning. Your hate will be made complete and you will not spend time with words, you will take action. And it will be a mob mentality for it already is, and it's becoming stylish.

Here's the kicker, it's God's will. You will be the fire to burn away the dross. God's people here have had it way too easy and have fallen slack, weak, carnal and faithless. You will purify his ranks. It is written, judgment comes first to the house of God.

So, ponder if you can, what really drives your deep hate. Of course you don't think you hate, ironic isn't it, your own self righteousness? Of course I wouldn't expect that to be seen either, it could be, and that in it's self is a mystery. Some vessels made for honor, some dishonor and some for destruction.

One thing you share with a LOT of Christians; you think God and this whole stuff is about La La Land, fuzzy bunnies and flowers and a big fat ticket to an easy train to a party in the sky. I guess you should count yourself lucky that you see something is amiss with this concept.

Yeah, I would say real lucky.

[Locutus]

"God/Jesus didn't stop the bad things from happening, Waaaaa!" Wow, for someone who doesn't believe in him, you people bitch and moan about him 10 times more than believers do when they don't get their way. Why don't you take 5 minutes and go bitch and moan about Buddah or Allah not dropping down out of a cloud and patching your flat tire next time instead of kicking Christians because they are meek dogs that don't bite your ass off when you kick them?

I see from your posts in this thread that you're quite adept at misinterpreting the intentions (see page 1 of the thread), as well as manufacturing my supposed "bitching and moaning" about him.  The question at hand is why he gets the credit for all the good (up to and including rescue from situations that he apparently should have been able to prevent), but gets a very undeserved "pass" on all of the nasty things that go on. 

Case in point is the one from a couple of years ago where a woman's son was lost in the woods for well over 5 hours.  The police eventually found him, and the quote was, "Gawd has blessed me by bringing my son back."  Surely you can see how ridiculous that appears.  If she'd been truly blessed by Gawd, then that shit wouldn't have happened to her in the first place. 

Well, the bad news for the Christians is this, it's not going to get any better for them. Asshats are going to be just what they are, asshats and they have found they can abuse Christians with impunity these days. The world really has went to shit and frankly I think it's about time.

A more interesting discussion is why some Christians take questions such as the one I've posed in this thread as a personal affront and are left with responding with terms such as "Asshats" in the stead of cogent rebuttal and discussion. 

The mystery of sin is coming about at full steam and guess what? Yeah, God's letting it, in fact I think he's loosed the throttle on it. I really hate to sound like these doom sayers that just annoy me to no end, but its all coming to a head. The tumblers have been falling in place for years and I have wonder what has held it all back for so long.

Puhleeze!  There is no mystery of sin, at least not any that can be ascribed to Jehovah.  The concept of good versus evil predates the scribblings in your holy book as well as those of the Koran. 

It's not your big fancy churches, or the big TV personalities, these I suspect are going down first. It's all pretty clear when you think about it. You people with your vulgarities, your thinly veiled hatred for Christians, this is just the beginning. Your hate will be made complete and you will not spend time with words, you will take action. And it will be a mob mentality for it already is, and it's becoming stylish.

Again, I think not.  I have hatred for nobody.  I just like asking questions.  Given the questions that I ask, it appears that the Christians are the ones who are left with no cogent rebuttal to any of the questions that I choose to ask.  No style, no mob mentality, just the facts Jack.

Here's the kicker, it's God's will. You will be the fire to burn away the dross. God's people here have had it way too easy and have fallen slack, weak, carnal and faithless. You will purify his ranks. It is written, judgment comes first to the house of God.

So, ponder if you can, what really drives your deep hate. Of course you don't think you hate, ironic isn't it, your own self righteousness? Of course I wouldn't expect that to be seen either, it could be, and that in it's self is a mystery. Some vessels made for honor, some dishonor and some for destruction.

One thing you share with a LOT of Christians; you think God and this whole stuff is about La La Land, fuzzy bunnies and flowers and a big fat ticket to an easy train to a party in the sky. I guess you should count yourself lucky that you see something is amiss with this concept.

Yeah, I would say real lucky.

There is something quite amiss with the concept.  Unfortunately, it'll be a long time before that concept (a personal God who really gives a rat's ass about you) is expunged from the collective thought of humanity.  And yes, I do count myself lucky that I'm able to deal with my lot in life without invoking the concept of a deity, and the idea that he simply may be fucking with me for his own "will." 

[Palehorse]

Let's see: No. Last I checked I should be properly classified as an equal opportunity "hater" of organized religion. Muslims, Hindu, Jew, Christian, Orthodox Jew, Catholicism, Et Al: Each exists only because it serves those who hold the reins of it's interpretation in their quest to amass personal wealth and power. Every single one of them.

No, I disagree that "God" is letting sin run rampant. "God" isn't letting anything happen. That's why "he" gave us "free-will" in part; to establish our own principals, morals, etc. Not to mention it is "his" escape clause to ensure he doesn't fiddle with the controls. "He" promised us "free-will" and we will have it.

No kind and loving entity would doom it's creation to burn for eternity just for a little procreation activity. But the personal wealth and power mongers would have us believing that spanking the monkey to old Joey Heathertons pictures puts you on greased rails to that fate. Horse-hockey!

And Muhammed? Come one now! God's messenger on earth? Really! 

As to the source of my distaste for organized religion, one only need to review history to see clearly documented the fact that religion has had it's greedy little fingers in each and every organized city, town, burg, farm, country, and other powerful regimes within every single period of recorded time. The Kings/Queens ruled the nobles, the nobles ruled the surfs and peasants, and behind the curtain we see the priests pulling the strings attached to the King/Queen, so they're controlling everybody. To amass personal wealth and power. And to save you some time and research, this same exact scenario continues to this very day and age, and has repeated throughout history.

Now, as for the Xtians in particular, My "tone-lock" on them can be simply exemplified within the discovery channels' "Lost Tomb Of Jesus" and the possibilities that whole thing presents. Ever since I was but a babe, I have had this whole story about His return to heaven being physical as well as spiritual pounded into my brain. Then along comes this little "discovery" and instead of intelligently awaiting the scientific testing the zealots blather on about it being a fake, blah, blah, blah. Just tossing aside scientific and statistical proof that Jesus was a man, with a wife and family, and had children. His wife was not a whore, but instead a high level priest within the early Xtian movement. (Now there are semantics to be argued here but I'm not going there right now).

This "theory" being backed by genetic testing would only serve to severely crack the personal power and wealth machine the "Good Ol' Boys" network has been living off of for centuries. But now mind you, they only have generations of humanity brainwashed into following their word like lemmings, so this crack won't be too bad at first. But they're already in damage control mode so I am sure by the time the testing is completed they'll be ready with some lame new story. . .

Now all of this is not to say that I am somehow against Jesus, because I do think a lot of what he had to say was good advice for humanity, and some advice many cultures would benefit greatly from. It may have even been of divine inspiration. But he was a man just as I am, it would seem. And the zealots are clamping the safe doors closed and living in denial. Before the proof's even in!

And then there's this "religious objection" malarkey being bandied about in order to stop things like cloning, and stem cell research. What are they doing exerting any kind of influence over science and government? If the creator didn't want us to discover something, and didn't want us to be like him even though he created us in his image, then don't you think that creator would make sure we couldn't go there? (Oh, there's that pesky little free-will thingy again).  I mean the church has quashed soundly any scientific discoveries from an early period calling them heresy etc. and jailed the discoverers or worse. Come on, how does the fact the earth rotates around the sun,(Galileo) as do the other planets, make someone a heretic? Of course with the benefit of hindsight we see just how stupid that path of action was, but how is it any different today? How is what they are saying these practices are any different than throwing a scientist in jail centuries ago? And is the motivation any different today? (No!)

Rene Descartes (1596 -1650) started a revolution within thinking with his four rules for thinkers to follow:

1. The first was never to accept anything as true if you do not have evident knowledge of its truth: that is, carefully to avoid precipitate conclusions and preconceptions, and to include nothing more in our judgments than what presented itself to our mind so clearly and distinctly that we have no occasion to doubt it.
2.The second, to divide each of the difficulties we examine into as many parts as possible and as may be required in order to resolve them better.
3.Third, to direct our thoughts in an orderly manner. . .
4. and lastly, throughout to make emunerations so complete and reviews so comprehensive, that we can be sure to leave nothing out.(DM 2.18-19, p. 120)

This just a short 8 years after Galileo's condemnation for his Theory. Descartes, desiring to skirt the fate of Galileo displayed some shrewdness in including solicited critiques of his work within the context of the publication of his texts, which clearly endorsed Galileo's perspectives. In a letter to these theologians (also included) Descartes refers to "believers like ourselves"; he professes to be absolutely convinced that it is sufficient in these matters to rely upon scripture-but there is a problem. On one hand Gods existence is to be believed  because it is taught in scripture. Scripture on the other hand, is to be believed because God is the source. . . ( and to this I'll add a third hand to this deformed being in saying that the scripture was written by humankind, and heavily edited by humankind, so how can one say with any reasonable certainty that what is in the scripture is the message God intended?)

Now it doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that this is a bit of circular logic, and a pretty tight circle it is! (Recall skeptics such as Sextus and Montaigne, who maintained that all our claims to "know" are either involved in such circular thinking or are strung out in an infinite regress). To break the circle Descartes thinks it necessary to prove rationally that God exists!

And with this ingenious little bit of baffling the church with BS, Descartes avoids Galileo's fate and still gets his point across.

Frederick Nietzsche postulated that life is the result of errors; human errors. "We have arranged for ourselves a world in which we can live - by posting bodies, lines, planes, causes and effects, motion and rest, form and content: without the articles of faith  nobody could endure life. But that does not prove them! Life is no argument. The conditions of life might include error." Human beings as they are now have been formed by errors; we depend upon them.

Now if there is an iota of truth within any of this postulation by these great individuals, wouldn't it be that we cannot trust humankind to faithfully shepherd the word of God beyond that individual who experiences a divine inspiration? That humankind inherently is a greedy and needy life-form, and with its cunningness subject to bastardization and exercising of unwarranted literary license within the relation of information that could be (and is) utilized to direct the masses toward a common goal? Especially if said "common goal" is one that would produce great personal wealth and power?

Nah, I for one am firmly convinced that the big guy doesn't like all this bologna any more than I do. And he/she is sitting up there somewhere going, "finally!" 

[lex]

I am waiting for some profound revelation and enlightenment from you guys that gives you this empowerment to piss all over people's faiths, their coping mechanisms, and that which gives them comfort. You must being going to go personally to help ease people's sufferings, to comfort them in time of need to be shitting all over their current system.

You guys really must be something else to top what is currently working for these people. Wow, how could I have dared question you? Holy shit, stop the press, these guys have something to say that is going to shake the world up.

Well? Lets have it...?

*crickets*

Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."

[Palehorse]

Tsk tsk. It worked for Descartes but it isn't going to work for you! 

[Palehorse]

I am waiting for some profound revelation and enlightenment from you guys that gives you this empowerment to piss all over people's faiths, their coping mechanisms, and that which gives them comfort. You must being going to go personally to help ease people's sufferings, to comfort them in time of need to be shitting all over their current system.

You guys really must be something else to top what is currently working for these people. Wow, how could I have dared question you? Holy shit, stop the press, these guys have something to say that is going to shake the world up.

Well? Lets have it...?

*crickets*

Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."

Now now. Bluster belies confusion and/or fear. Let us break down just what it is you fear here and ask ourselves is this a reasonable expectation?

I am waiting for some profound revelation and enlightenment from you guys that gives you this empowerment to piss all over people's faiths, their coping mechanisms, and that which gives them comfort.

Enlightenment takes "ages", and religion has had several ages with which to bolster it's mechanisms of self validating interpretation and circular logic; thus brainwashing or conditioning if you prefer, the population. A dozen nay-sayers does not an enlightenment achieve; but it is a start none-the-less; after all every new idea, theory, or reality has it's origins within a start. But does it make sense to expect immediate enlightenment, or is doing so realistic? Undoubtedly the answer to these questions is no, and is indicative of todays give it to me fast, give it to me now, expectation of on the spot gratification. (Something the modern day zealot counts upon, since this practice virtually guarantees "his/her" interpretation of the scripture/text will be automatically accepted).

You must being going to go personally to help ease people's sufferings, to comfort them in time of need to be shitting all over their current system.

I hardly believe the words of two men, or their personal perspectives / theories would sway the "rock solid" belief system of the "foundational" Christian or any other religious person; zealot or not. Thus, this statement is indicative of blustering and sensationalism; hardly the words of one who is an astute practitioner of his/her chosen faith! Where's the beef?

You guys really must be something else to top what is currently working for these people. Wow, how could I have dared question you? Holy shit, stop the press, these guys have something to say that is going to shake the world up.

Sarcasm is hardly an act of intelligent discussion of ideas or perspectives, and again can be perceived as stalling or "stone-walling". Questions on the other hand are the nectar of life for new ideas and perspectives. Instead of persecuting that which you do not fully understand, (as our religious leadership around the world is so adept at doing. Indicative of conditioning? You be the judge), why do you not ask questions or seek clarification?

Scriptures says; "Professing themselves wise they became fools." I would like to challenge that and say; "Professing themselves wise they became ASSHOLES."

Here too we have reconsidered: the development of consciousness, the "spirit", is for us nothing less than a symptom of the relative imperfection of the organism; it means trying, groping, blundering-an exertion which uses up an unnecessary amount of nervous energy, and results in nothing substantive with which to demonstrate progression in mind, body, and/or thinking! In a word, drivel!

No one is professing to be wise here, but instead some are attempting to further new ideas and thoughts surrounding the plausibility of a centuries old theory and basic religious tenants that clearly contradict themselves and are contradicted by the physical record and science.

History clearly shows that the pontiff ordering Galileo's condemnation was an ass, yet the sheep of the day endorsed this action blindly; and history / science clearly support Galileo's perspectives to this very day.

Is humanity doomed to repeat its history via modern day condemnation of cloning and stem cell research? History and science clearly indicate that the probability of the answer being yes is overwhelming; due to humanity's conditioning by the religious powerful!

Even when science clearly will show that Jeebus was a mortal being, who lived, loved, reproduced, and died, the zealots will maintain it to be heresy and condemn those who work toward the conclusion or endorse it.

No wonder it is so easy for guys like David Koresh and Jimmy Jones to serve up their poison kool-aid!

[lex]

Well, I have met God and seen his hand in miracles with my eyes. No razzle dazzle is going to bullshit me out of what I have seen and experienced first hand. Believe me, if I could bullshit myself out of believing, I would love to follow some self indulgence that knowing obstructs.

But wtf? You experience and see things and you are screwed for going back to old ways or to something else. Also you get sick and tired of people flipping you shit in their infinitely variable ways. It's like having assholes coming out of the wood work telling you cheese burgers don't exist when you work at McDonalds.

People don't believe me, I really don't lose much sleep over it. It all comes out in the wash. But when I see some poor broken hearted people crying in a pew, digging down for something to get them through their trials and miserable existence, I really don't have any time for smart asses who think because they read a few books in college and passed some pontificating idiot's class that they have the universe by the balls and can shit on people they deem are ignorant.

Here's some critical thinking for you; If people don't believe in God, why are they ripping on him? It's like not believing in Unicorns but saying "lawd...those unicorns SUCK...they never come out and let those idiot virgins ride them...I wish they would so they would get that out of their system and I could then screw at least one of them....those damn unicorns...I hate them...I can't wait for those things to die off".

If they don't believe in God, then it's stupid to be ripping on him. If they truly don't believe in God, then they are ripping on the people. They are indirectly in a chicken shit way dissing on the people who believe in him. No matter how you slice it, that is pretty screwed up, because only a few give it a bad name, and most its a system of comfort and coping and morals that keep them civilized.

Now if they aren't attacking the people with their hateful rhetoric, then who are they attacking? God? LOL... gee, isn't it kind of nuts to attack something you don't believe in?

You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.

[Palehorse]

Well, I have met God and seen his hand in miracles with my eyes. No razzle dazzle is going to bullshit me out of what I have seen and experienced first hand. Believe me, if I could bullshit myself out of believing, I would love to follow some self indulgence that knowing obstructs.

But wtf? You experience and see things and you are screwed for going back to old ways or to something else. Also you get sick and tired of people flipping you shit in their infinitely variable ways. It's like having assholes coming out of the wood work telling you cheese burgers don't exist when you work at McDonalds.

People don't believe me, I really don't lose much sleep over it. It all comes out in the wash. But when I see some poor broken hearted people crying in a pew, digging down for something to get them through their trials and miserable existence, I really don't have any time for smart asses who think because they read a few books in college and passed some pontificating idiot's class that they have the universe by the balls and can shit on people they deem are ignorant.

Here's some critical thinking for you; If people don't believe in God, why are they ripping on him? It's like not believing in Unicorns but saying "lawd...those unicorns SUCK...they never come out and let those idiot virgins ride them...I wish they would so they would get that out of their system and I could then screw at least one of them....those damn unicorns...I hate them...I can't wait for those things to die off".

If they don't believe in God, then it's stupid to be ripping on him. If they truly don't believe in God, then they are ripping on the people. They are indirectly in a chicken shit way dissing on the people who believe in him. No matter how you slice it, that is pretty screwed up, because only a few give it a bad name, and most its a system of comfort and coping and morals that keep them civilized.

Now if they aren't attacking the people with their hateful rhetoric, then who are they attacking? God? LOL... gee, isn't it kind of nuts to attack something you don't believe in?

You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.

First of all you are painting an entire thread of postings with a brush loaded with ignorance. You clearly are letting the forest hide the trees from you.

I never said I do not believe in "God" or a creator; in fact I said quite the opposite. If you ever take the time to digest the information posted in it's entirety you will see that this is so.

I did say I hate organized religion, and I'll say it every time I can. It fleeces those who can least afford it, it provides nothing that isn't undertaken with profitability for the individual(s) controlling the temple, church, etc as the main objective., and provides a false sense of "security".

I've been the recipient of numerous "miraculous" events within my lifetime, and I would venture to say a few more are likely in store. This still doesn't change the fact that humankind has bastardized the "word of God", (the canonization process is proof enough for me), and has utilized it throughout history to accumulate personal wealth and power at the cost of the membership of the religion.

God doesn't require a multi million dollar house within which the people can worship him. He is perfectly happy for 2, or 3, or more to openly discuss him, and bring praise to him from a meadow, city dump, or private home.  In fact I'd venture to say he/she pays a lot closer attention to those who worship in a similar manner. But if it goes against the concept of free will, all bets are off.

I view the lion's share of organized religious entities as nothing more than a legalized (according to the laws of humankind) version of a pyramid scheme. Get the membership roles up, preach the blessings to be obtained through tithing, house it all under the blanket of religious organization in order to shelter your burgeoning personal coffers. Rinse, lather, and repeat as necessary. (Oh, and be sure to scare the bejeebus out of them along the way with healthy doses of eternal fire and damnation). . .

Admittedly I am well off the beaten path in comparison to traditional accepted doctrines as interpreted by modern day theology majors, but here too I submit that said theologists are "above average" surrounding the conditioned state they are within when it concerns interpretation of scripture and religious tenets.

I've read no one taking any position that could be reasonably interpreted as dissing on God or xtians; but what I have read is some sound theories and perspectives that are backed up by the scientific evidence required to support their theories of perspectives. (Within this thread). Now I can tell you I myself have been witness to the heavy-handed, high pressure tactics utilized by the zealots in many organized religions.

The Latter Day Saints are notorious for such actions, and Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc., are right there too. How many times have you answered the door on a Saturday afternoon to be greeted by someone there to "save your eternal soul from damnation"?

How do they know I am eternally damned? They been spying on me, or are they making some very dangerous assumptions because they have never seen my face in their circular logic endorsing entity they like to call a place of worship?

Just as the xtian claims that the actions or words of a few are being unfairly attributed to the masses, so it is with some of the arguments presented herein, and your incorporation of assumption into interpretation of these perspectives. You hold all opposing perspectives accountable for the actions/opinions/statements of a few; false logic at best.

I have no objections to the undertaking of supportive actions for those who are down on their luck or need a hand up.( I believe these actions are in direct support of the teachings of Jesus, although I do not ascribe to them being a requirement of a creator).  And thanks to the overzealousness of our last few leaders in the highest offices, morals need not be addressed via religion these days. The law makers have the market cornered in that area.

What you are calling "ripping on God", I see as providing objective evidence to refute the centuries old claims and beliefs of an antiquated religious system. Evidence supporting the fact that religion is nothing more than a tool utilized by those in control to produce personal wealth and power.  Evidence supporting the fact that humankind has bastardized religion across the boards for this very same purpose.

I do not begrudge you your life experiences surrounding what you say are miracles. I cannot for I have already stated that I have received some of these very miracles myself. But I am strongly opposed to the idea of organized religion, and their "in your face" my way or the fire-way methodology that requires blind faith and unearned trust that what the leadership of these entities is telling you is the creators intention.

And I certainly am not attempting to shit upon others, nor do I hold their perspectives in any way lower to anyone else's. Rather I am questioning the status quo, and recognizing the fallacies most of these practices are based upon are either unsustainable via scientific methodology, or just outright lies constructed to yield more power and wealth for the zealots.

[lex]

First of all you are painting an entire thread of postings with a brush loaded with ignorance. You clearly are letting the forest hide the trees from you.

I never said I do not believe in "God" or a creator; in fact I said quite the opposite. If you ever take the time to digest the information posted in it's entirety you will see that this is so.

I did say I hate organized religion, and I'll say it every time I can. It fleeces those who can least afford it, it provides nothing that isn't undertaken with profitability for the individual(s) controlling the temple, church, etc as the main objective., and provides a false sense of "security".

I've been the recipient of numerous "miraculous" events within my lifetime, and I would venture to say a few more are likely in store. This still doesn't change the fact that humankind has bastardized the "word of God", (the canonization process is proof enough for me), and has utilized it throughout history to accumulate personal wealth and power at the cost of the membership of the religion.

God doesn't require a multi million dollar house within which the people can worship him. He is perfectly happy for 2, or 3, or more to openly discuss him, and bring praise to him from a meadow, city dump, or private home.  In fact I'd venture to say he/she pays a lot closer attention to those who worship in a similar manner. But if it goes against the concept of free will, all bets are off.

I view the lion's share of organized religious entities as nothing more than a legalized (according to the laws of humankind) version of a pyramid scheme. Get the membership roles up, preach the blessings to be obtained through tithing, house it all under the blanket of religious organization in order to shelter your burgeoning personal coffers. Rinse, lather, and repeat as necessary. (Oh, and be sure to scare the bejeebus out of them along the way with healthy doses of eternal fire and damnation). . .

Admittedly I am well off the beaten path in comparison to traditional accepted doctrines as interpreted by modern day theology majors, but here too I submit that said theologists are "above average" surrounding the conditioned state they are within when it concerns interpretation of scripture and religious tenets.

I've read no one taking any position that could be reasonably interpreted as dissing on God or xtians; but what I have read is some sound theories and perspectives that are backed up by the scientific evidence required to support their theories of perspectives. (Within this thread). Now I can tell you I myself have been witness to the heavy-handed, high pressure tactics utilized by the zealots in many organized religions.

The Latter Day Saints are notorious for such actions, and Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc., are right there too. How many times have you answered the door on a Saturday afternoon to be greeted by someone there to "save your eternal soul from damnation"?

How do they know I am eternally damned? They been spying on me, or are they making some very dangerous assumptions because they have never seen my face in their circular logic endorsing entity they like to call a place of worship?

Just as the xtian claims that the actions or words of a few are being unfairly attributed to the masses, so it is with some of the arguments presented herein, and your incorporation of assumption into interpretation of these perspectives. You hold all opposing perspectives accountable for the actions/opinions/statements of a few; false logic at best.

I have no objections to the undertaking of supportive actions for those who are down on their luck or need a hand up.( I believe these actions are in direct support of the teachings of Jesus, although I do not ascribe to them being a requirement of a creator).  And thanks to the overzealousness of our last few leaders in the highest offices, morals need not be addressed via religion these days. The law makers have the market cornered in that area.

What you are calling "ripping on God", I see as providing objective evidence to refute the centuries old claims and beliefs of an antiquated religious system. Evidence supporting the fact that religion is nothing more than a tool utilized by those in control to produce personal wealth and power.  Evidence supporting the fact that humankind has bastardized religion across the boards for this very same purpose.

I do not begrudge you your life experiences surrounding what you say are miracles. I cannot for I have already stated that I have received some of these very miracles myself. But I am strongly opposed to the idea of organized religion, and their "in your face" my way or the fire-way methodology that requires blind faith and unearned trust that what the leadership of these entities is telling you is the creators intention.

And I certainly am not attempting to shit upon others, nor do I hold their perspectives in any way lower to anyone else's. Rather I am questioning the status quo, and recognizing the fallacies most of these practices are based upon are either unsustainable via scientific methodology, or just outright lies constructed to yield more power and wealth for the zealots.

Hmm...this is where you differentiate yourself from the rest of this pack. the thread is titled "God Sucks" and is a religious troll thread.

I get your drift and I hate organized big business religion with a passion. I call it Fast Food Jesus. "Welcome to Church, may I take your order please?"

"We would like some worship, a sermon and a blessing."

"Would you like a hot apple pie with that?"

"NO!"

"That will be 10% of your income and an offering, pull around to the next window please."

The whole thing with Jesus was to cut out the bullshit middleman. Under the Law, man screwed it up with the priesthood until it was so corrupt it was sickening. Jesus went batshit on them in the temple and trashed the place. That didn't go over too well with the religious establishment of the day, so they plotted to off him and got it done.

If you ever noticed, but Jesus didn't tear into the average sinner, he cut them some major slack. The one's he tore a new asshole in was the religious leaders of the day. He was always busting their balls, and they hated him for it, and wanted to pown him for it, but he would just bust a move and be out of there.

They, the religious leaders of the time were doing jacked up stuff to the average person even back then and he let them know they were majorly screwed in the afterlife for it.

Behind it was a spirit of evil. And yet today, that spirit is still around. If you think the big evil is in some of the low orders of stuff like wiccans, devil worshipers, etc, think again. It comes as a minister of righteousness, disguising it's self and moving right into the church.

I have seen stuff chillingly evil in church. I had to stop going, I seen too much and it disturbed me to the point it was futile to go. When I stopped going ironically was when I had some of the greatest epiphanies of my spiritual life. I discovered I didn't need someone to feed me like a baby bird, I could get what I needed directly from the source.   

Nothing like setting on one's front porch, bummed out about how screwy church was and having God show up. "Ah...whatcha doin' here, God?" "They didn't want me there either..so lets hang out."

[Henry Hawk]

I'm  busting chops because whenever a bad situation is made better, folks seem all to willing to credit a deity,  when they really ought to use their noodle and question why a kind and merciful deity would have allowed that shit to happen in the first place. 

why does it bother you if someone wants to give credit to God or the wall?.............i thought you was ALL about freedoms?

you get "bothered" cause lex used "Asshats"...but you use terms like "jeesbus" and poke fun at Christians "intelligence" quite often.......just an observation...

[Locutus]

why does it bother you if someone wants to give credit to God or the wall?.............i thought you was ALL about freedoms?

you get "bothered" cause lex used "Asshats"...but you use terms like "jeesbus" and poke fun at Christians "intelligence" quite often.......just an observation...

Quite the contrary HH, I'm not bothered by anything.  I'm simply pointing out the silliness of it all.  Why credit a deity with the good stuff, but give him a pass on the bad stuff?  After all, a supposed loving deity should have the ability to have put a stop to all of the crap described previously on this thread and then some.

To invoke a deity, be it the god of the bible and koran, isn't any different, or less silly, than other antiquated beliefs like Prometheus stealing fire from the gods to give it to man. 

[Locutus]

Well, I have met God and seen his hand in miracles with my eyes. No razzle dazzle is going to bullshit me out of what I have seen and experienced first hand. Believe me, if I could bullshit myself out of believing, I would love to follow some self indulgence that knowing obstructs.

But wtf? You experience and see things and you are screwed for going back to old ways or to something else. Also you get sick and tired of people flipping you shit in their infinitely variable ways. It's like having assholes coming out of the wood work telling you cheese burgers don't exist when you work at McDonalds.

But this is the typical reaction is it not?  I start a thread called God Sucks by pointing out that it's quite clear that any deity, if he exists at all, is clearly no longer involved in the whole "human" thing.  The next thing we know is that we have Xtians taking it as a personal affront rather than pondering the question as it was put forth.

People don't believe me, I really don't lose much sleep over it. It all comes out in the wash. But when I see some poor broken hearted people crying in a pew, digging down for something to get them through their trials and miserable existence, I really don't have any time for smart asses who think because they read a few books in college and passed some pontificating idiot's class that they have the universe by the balls and can shit on people they deem are ignorant.

Then perhaps we don't have a common frame of reference here.  I've said before, and I'll say it again.  Book learning, and I'm not talkin' about the "good book," has consequences.  First and foremost among those consequences is expulsion from ignorance.

Here's some critical thinking for you; If people don't believe in God, why are they ripping on him? It's like not believing in Unicorns but saying "lawd...those unicorns SUCK...they never come out and let those idiot virgins ride them...I wish they would so they would get that out of their system and I could then screw at least one of them....those damn unicorns...I hate them...I can't wait for those things to die off".

If they don't believe in God, then it's stupid to be ripping on him. If they truly don't believe in God, then they are ripping on the people. They are indirectly in a chicken shit way dissing on the people who believe in him. No matter how you slice it, that is pretty screwed up, because only a few give it a bad name, and most its a system of comfort and coping and morals that keep them civilized.

Now if they aren't attacking the people with their hateful rhetoric, then who are they attacking? God? LOL... gee, isn't it kind of nuts to attack something you don't believe in?

You can't dance out of the fact it's an asshole move, I don't care what music you play.

I'm ripping on the god concept.  If you see the post to HH above, I find belief in that an unholy ghost guided the woman to shoot the attacker equally as ridiculous as the polytheistic beliefs of the ancient Greeks and Romans.  There isn't a shred of evidence that makes your belief in your god and his existence any more credible than the beliefs that the ancient Greeks and Romans had in theirs.  If you have some to offer up, please do so.

[Locutus]

It also appears that the holy ghosty sucks too in that he wasn't skillful enough to actually guide her in dispatching the sick bastard, and he was left to off himself. 

(CNN) -- Matthew Murray, the man who police say shot and killed four people at two separate locations in Colorado on Sunday, died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, the coroner's office said Tuesday.
art.murrayireport1.jpg

A former roommate took this photo of Matthew Murray performing in a 2002 Christmas program.

"The death of Matthew Murray has been ruled a suicide," the El Paso County Coroner's Office said in a statement.

"It should be noted that he was struck multiple times by the security officer, which put him down. He then fired a single round killing himself," the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/11/colorado.shootings/index.html

[lex]

But this is the typical reaction is it not?  I start a thread called God Sucks by pointing out that it's quite clear that any deity, if he exists at all, is clearly no longer involved in the whole "human" thing.  The next thing we know is that we have Xtians taking it as a personal affront rather than pondering the question as it was put forth.

No longer involved? I would venture there are millions of people that would disagree wholeheartedly with that statement. You start a thread titled "God Sucks" and you don't expect Christians to take offense at it? You go start a thread like that in the middle east if you have the balls and say Allah sucks, if you survive, come back and let us know how it all worked out.

What is there to ponder? You are being a trolling prick with someone's faith, not a lot to ponder there.

Then perhaps we don't have a common frame of reference here.  I've said before, and I'll say it again.  Book learning, and I'm not talkin' about the "good book," has consequences.  First and foremost among those consequences is expulsion from ignorance.

What I hate about college grads over the years I have had to deal with them is the complete lack of common sense a lot of them display. I put NO faith in degrees and I judge people by their skills and talents. I have been to college, I am NOT impressed. They pass retards through it, and they have retards teaching it.

If you want to use "book learning" as your basis to bash kooks, then you are in trouble. Quantum Physicists are at the higher end of the food chain and they are "the snake handling Pentecostals of the science community. Have you ever heard some of the insane bullshit that comes out of their lectures and of their work?

They are a prime example of what happens when you got eggheads in a university trying to come up with new reasons to bullshit ignorant facility into justifying their tenure and giving them any form of money.

"Bob is going to microwave a burrito while singing Christmas Carols in French and we will formulate just how he's effecting the subatomic particles of the cheese in the burrito with his cheery thought waves."

*points to white board with mathematical scrawling from a drunken lab chimp*

"BRAVO!! You cheeky fellows will put our University on the map with your cheesy burrito caroling. Here's a check boys...see you at the next budget hearing!"

Expulsion from ignorance? More like plumbing new depths of it via arrogance.

I'm ripping on the god concept.  If you see the post to HH above, I find belief in that an unholy ghost guided the woman to shoot the attacker equally as ridiculous as the polytheistic beliefs of the ancient Greeks and Romans.  There isn't a shred of evidence that makes your belief in your god and his existence any more credible than the beliefs that the ancient Greeks and Romans had in theirs.  If you have some to offer up, please do so.

No problem there pal, as soon as FedEx delivers my Acme Bizwhappomatic-Nutonian-Automatic-Self Cleaning-God Catcher & Egg Cooker I will be sure to take some vid of it in action and post it on YouTube.

The proof is in the pudding, you can see him in those that love him.

[pariann]

Now I remember why I don't much read this thread. It's way too long winded.  And lex, you aren't making any points by continuously calling names.  I think this could have been a useful debate on discovering why people believe the way they do. Instead it looks too much to me like nothing more than attack and defend.