Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 15, 2014, 08:37:42 AM
Ferguson, Missouri looks a lot like the Gaza Strip right now.....UNBELIEVABLE! :spooked:
Quote from: The Troll on August 17, 2014, 04:50:06 PM
Will you people believe me now? I have said for years that the militarization of our police departments were becoming a real bad problem. :yes: Just look at Ferguson Mo. and it has to stop and stop now. :rant:
These cops are not peace officers, these cops are military SWAT killers. :rant:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 18, 2014, 08:11:33 AM
Perhaps if the people were not LOOTING and DESTROYING personal property the cops would not have to act in a military way. They have no choice now but to be extremely forceful.
1. Yes, Ferguson does give the impression of places like the Gaza Strip, just like Detroit, Watts, etc. back in the 60's but back then it was the military - the National Guard - not the police force playing at being the military.
2. The militarization of our local police forces is a dire national problem that has needed addressed for years. Unfortunately, even though it's now being talked about , law enforcement may have gone too far down that road for the citizenry to rectify. I hope not.
3. Yeah, all them damn negroes are just jungle animals, ain't they. :rolleyes: Do you ever stop to think about why you paint issues like this the way you do, Hank? Do you wonder why people tell you that you're racist, or do you just blow it off and claim it's 'politics' instead of examining how you react and deal with issues that involve race?
Anyway, there are always going to be people out there who will take advantage of situations of social unrest to commit crimes - especially with the underlying economic stratification of this country. You can't tie those crimes or those criminals to the social unrest or those participating in demonstrations protesting social ills. Doing so is only propaganda, and in this instance racial propaganda - but it's nothing I haven't seen or lived through in my lifetime.
I would have hoped we as a nation - and as 'white' people - would have moved beyond that.
Race has NOTHING to do with stealing and destroying personal property. It is wrong no matter what color anybody is. What the people in Ferguson is doing is wrong. PERIOD. No excuses what-so-ever.
What have I said that was racist?
I will answer that for you. NOTHING. Wrong is wrong, no matter how you slice it.
Uh, it was you who mentioned the race Y HH just said there was looting and rioting going on and didn't mention a race so you are the one who automatically assumed he was talking about blacks.
Quote from: me on August 18, 2014, 01:20:25 PM
Uh, it was you who mentioned the race Y HH just said there was looting and rioting going on and didn't mention a race so you are the one who automatically assumed he was talking about blacks.
When you talk about Ferguson Mo. with 70% black African Americans and a police force of 99% white, judges all white and persecutors all white. Clara Bell :jester: it's all about blacks and race. :doh:
Quote from: The Troll on August 18, 2014, 05:39:50 PM
When you talk about Ferguson Mo. with 70% black African Americans and a police force of 99% white, judges all white and persecutors all white. Clara Bell :jester: it's all about blacks and race. :doh:
And if they're rioting and looting they're wrong and it isn't racist to say they're rioting and looting and being racist has nothing to do with the statement because it's true. To ignore and excuse wrong doing just because of a persons color or race is just wrong and enabling.
Quote from: me on August 18, 2014, 06:15:19 PM
And if they're rioting and looting they're wrong and it isn't racist to say they're rioting and looting and being racist has nothing to do with the statement because it's true. To ignore and excuse wrong doing just because of a persons color or race is just wrong and enabling.
Racism has EVERYTHING to do with it. You just don't see it.
They, based upon what I have seen surrounding forensics, executed an unarmed individual that was guilty of shoplifting at best.
EXECUTED this young man. EXECUTED.
Six shots, 4 of which would have immobilized him. But they didn't stop there, they administered the coup de gras by shooting him twice more; in the head. (According to Michael Baden, one of the foremost forensic pathologists in this country).
All while the young man was trying to surrender.
Very reminiscent of the 60's civil rights movement, and as these people exercise their constitutional right to peacefully protest, they are persecuted by the authorities further, which leads to the debacle and riots we now see there.
Apparently many in this country have not learned the lessons necessary to stop the racism and persecution of individuals based upon the color of their skin or ancestry. So we will be forced to endure acts of civil unrest and yes, anarchy yet again.
This is local policing gone wrong, and at some level at least it is in part due to the militarization of law enforcement. (As Troll alludes to and I myself have mentioned on several occasions here as well).
Quelling this situation should be foremost upon law enforcement and governments agendas, and I am sure it is. Just not in the way both parties need it to be addressed; with the second party being the victim(s) in this situation; the citizens of the involved area.
Secondly, the rest of this country had best sit up and take notice, for every single city in this nation is but one bone-headed police action from being front and center on the front line of a similar situation itself. And THERE is the danger.
I and others on here have been warning of the impending civil war this country is at risk of. :yes:
If this young man had been white and living in your city, how would you feel about it?
If that incident had been the latest in a long string of jack=booted persecution of young white males, how would you feel about it?
Wouldn't you take to the streets to peacefully protest the execution of an unarmed young, male white?
What would you do if that action resulted in tear gassing, arrests, and beatings of the peaceful protestors?
Civil unrest is the last desperate act that comes before civil war.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 18, 2014, 06:38:06 PM
Racism has EVERYTHING to do with it. You just don't see it.
They, based upon what I have seen surrounding forensics, executed an unarmed individual that was guilty of shoplifting at best.
EXECUTED this young man. EXECUTED.
Six shots, 4 of which would have immobilized him. But they didn't stop there, they administered the coup de gras by shooting him twice more; in the head. (According to Michael Baden, one of the foremost forensic pathologists in this country).
All while the young man was trying to surrender.
Very reminiscent of the 60's civil rights movement, and as these people exercise their constitutional right to peacefully protest, they are persecuted by the authorities further, which leads to the debacle and riots we now see there.
Apparently many in this country have not learned the lessons necessary to stop the racism and persecution of individuals based upon the color of their skin or ancestry. So we will be forced to endure acts of civil unrest and yes, anarchy yet again.
This is local policing gone wrong, and at some level at least it is in part due to the militarization of law enforcement. (As Troll alludes to and I myself have mentioned on several occasions here as well).
Quelling this situation should be foremost upon law enforcement and governments agendas, and I am sure it is. Just not in the way both parties need it to be addressed; with the second party being the victim(s) in this situation; the citizens of the involved area.
Secondly, the rest of this country had best sit up and take notice, for every single city in this nation is but one bone-headed police action from being front and center on the front line of a similar situation itself. And THERE is the danger.
I and others on here have been warning of the impending civil war this country is at risk of. :yes:
If this young man had been white and living in your city, how would you feel about it?
If that incident had been the latest in a long string of jack=booted persecution of young white males, how would you feel about it?
Wouldn't you take to the streets to peacefully protest the execution of an unarmed young, male white?
What would you do if that action resulted in tear gassing, arrests, and beatings of the peaceful protestors?
Civil unrest is the last desperate act that comes before civil war.
Brainless Republicans Conservatives just don't get it. :doh: :pink: :pink: :pink: :zoners:
Quote from: Palehorse on August 18, 2014, 06:38:06 PM
Racism has EVERYTHING to do with it. You just don't see it.
They, based upon what I have seen surrounding forensics, executed an unarmed individual that was guilty of shoplifting at best.
EXECUTED this young man. EXECUTED.
Six shots, 4 of which would have immobilized him. But they didn't stop there, they administered the coup de gras by shooting him twice more; in the head. (According to Michael Baden, one of the foremost forensic pathologists in this country).
All while the young man was trying to surrender.
Very reminiscent of the 60's civil rights movement, and as these people exercise their constitutional right to peacefully protest, they are persecuted by the authorities further, which leads to the debacle and riots we now see there.
Apparently many in this country have not learned the lessons necessary to stop the racism and persecution of individuals based upon the color of their skin or ancestry. So we will be forced to endure acts of civil unrest and yes, anarchy yet again.
This is local policing gone wrong, and at some level at least it is in part due to the militarization of law enforcement. (As Troll alludes to and I myself have mentioned on several occasions here as well).
Quelling this situation should be foremost upon law enforcement and governments agendas, and I am sure it is. Just not in the way both parties need it to be addressed; with the second party being the victim(s) in this situation; the citizens of the involved area.
Secondly, the rest of this country had best sit up and take notice, for every single city in this nation is but one bone-headed police action from being front and center on the front line of a similar situation itself. And THERE is the danger.
I and others on here have been warning of the impending civil war this country is at risk of. :yes:
If this young man had been white and living in your city, how would you feel about it?
If that incident had been the latest in a long string of jack=booted persecution of young white males, how would you feel about it?
Wouldn't you take to the streets to peacefully protest the execution of an unarmed young, male white?
What would you do if that action resulted in tear gassing, arrests, and beatings of the peaceful protestors?
Civil unrest is the last desperate act that comes before civil war.
And that gives them a right to loot and riot and harm people who had nothing to do with what happened? Give me a break. You are making a judgement on something without having been there or knowing what actually happened too you realize.
The only FACTS we have are:
1) A man is dead.
2) He was shot and killed by a police officer.
3) Some citizens are protesting peacefully and some are looting and rioting.
4) Some police officers that are TRYING to keep peace are having bricks and molotov cocktails thrown at them.
This is a bad situation.
Here is a report that is not being blasted on the air waves. I don't know if this is true or false yet, but if it is, it is a game changer.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html
If this young man had been white in a white neighborhood, I still don't think we would have seen looting and rioting. Does that make me a racist for saying the truth?
If cops put on helmets and riot gear does that mean they are militarized or just tying to keep themselves safe?
It is my opinion, that the trouble makers who are shooting at the police, throwing bricks and cocktails are by far a small group in comparison to those who are protesting peacefully.
Those who are acting this way STILL needs to be dealt with...until the people and business' are safe.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 19, 2014, 08:26:02 AM
The only FACTS we have are:
1) A man is dead.
2) He was shot and killed by a police officer.
3) Some citizens are protesting peacefully and some are looting and rioting.
4) Some police officers that are TRYING to keep peace are having bricks and molotov cocktails thrown at them.
This is a bad situation.
Here is a report that is not being blasted on the air waves. I don't know if this is true or false yet, but if it is, it is a game changer.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html
If this young man had been white in a white neighborhood, I still don't think we would have seen looting and rioting. Does that make me a racist for saying the truth?
If cops put on helmets and riot gear does that mean they are militarized or just tying to keep themselves safe?
It is my opinion, that the trouble makers who are shooting at the police, throwing bricks and cocktails are by far a small group in comparison to those who are protesting peacefully.
Those who are acting this way STILL needs to be dealt with...until the people and business' are safe.
Just were did these cops get their dress, clothes, tanks, guns, armored armored truck and Humvee? Well Hawk, they got them from the United States Army some directly from Iraq. :rolleyes: But of course you didn't know that. :doh: :no: :no:
Also a lot of these trouble makers are from out of town stirring up trouble. :doh: :groan:
Quote from: The Troll on August 19, 2014, 10:08:33 AM
Just were did these cops get their dress, clothes, tanks, guns, armored armored truck and Humvee? Well Hawk, they got them from the United States Army some directly from Iraq. :rolleyes: But of course you didn't know that. :doh: :no: :no:
Also a lot of these trouble makers are from out of town stirring up trouble. :doh: :groan:
Yes I did know that and what difference does it make WHERE they got them? That is the dumbest thing I have heard. They wear them to protect themselves from bricks and cocktails. They have a job to do and have been forced to do it in this nature. Why does it bother you if they got hand me downs from the Army? Seems to me like they are saving money by utilizing this equipment in situations like this.
Troll did you watch the video I attached?
Quote from: Palehorse on August 18, 2014, 06:38:06 PM
All while the young man was trying to surrender.
No, he wasn't.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 19, 2014, 12:58:49 PM
No, he wasn't.
You mean you were there and know that for a fact or are you using that creative thinking again?
Quote from: me on August 19, 2014, 01:10:29 PM
You mean you were there and know that for a fact or are you using that creative thinking again?
Well we all know that you don't use creative thinking and never have. Clara Bell. :jester:
troll did you watch this video? http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html)
has anyone on here?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 19, 2014, 04:49:07 PM
troll did you watch this video? http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html)
has anyone on here?
Sure I did and have watch hours and hours of coverage of Ferguson protests. On all channels, but Fox News has the same thoughts about it as you, I wonder why. :confused:
Quote from: The Troll on August 19, 2014, 04:55:14 PM
Sure I did and have watch hours and hours of coverage of Ferguson protests. On all channels, but Fox News has the same thoughts about it as you, I wonder why. :confused:
I am waiting on the evidence. It seems it is all starting to slowly come together.........NOT the knee jerk reaction that the MSNBC crowd had.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 19, 2014, 12:58:49 PM
No, he wasn't.
Now that the officer's account has been released publicly, (after my initial statement), I agree that he allegedly was not as the only accounts available prior to the release stated, giving up; but now is alleged to have been charging the officer who fired the shots. . .
What he was doing is now in question, so. . .
Quote from: Exterminator on August 19, 2014, 12:58:49 PM
No, he wasn't.
No, he wasn't trying to surrender but was trying to charge at the police officer and would have probably tried to get the officer's weapon and shoot him.
Let's look at it like this- the mind set was already set with this guy and he wasn't going to surrender like some think. An officer never knows what they are going against, in 1978- a Florida police officer pulled over a person for a traffic violation, after checking wants and warrants, it turned out to the serial killer Ted Bundy who tried to take the officer's weapon and harm him. He failed on that and was arrested.
An Oklahoma trooper stopped a guy for traffic violation- guess who Timothy McVeigh and right after the bombing. Again, he tried to take the trooper's weapon and failed.
The point that I am trying to make is that most nights, cops are just out there doing a job no one wants, may or may not come home from them and then you have the rare instances where some dumbass thinks they can take a cop out. Say what you want but when you are in a wreck, or had something happened, they are the ones you call. :police:
People are being bused in to riot and loot from what I heard on the news and the people who live there are helping the business owners clean up and fix up during the day. Yes, there are some locals protesting, but they are mostly the peaceful protestors.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 19, 2014, 06:33:36 PM
No, he wasn't trying to surrender but was trying to charge at the police officer and would have probably tried to get the officer's weapon and shoot him.
Let's look at it like this- the mind set was already set with this guy and he wasn't going to surrender like some think. An officer never knows what they are going against, in 1978- a Florida police officer pulled over a person for a traffic violation, after checking wants and warrants, it turned out to the serial killer Ted Bundy who tried to take the officer's weapon and harm him. He failed on that and was arrested.
An Oklahoma trooper stopped a guy for traffic violation- guess who Timothy McVeigh and right after the bombing. Again, he tried to take the trooper's weapon and failed.
The point that I am trying to make is that most nights, cops are just out there doing a job no one wants, may or may not come home from them and then you have the rare instances where some dumbass thinks they can take a cop out. Say what you want but when you are in a wreck, or had something happened, they are the ones you call. :police:
Clearly the point(s) in this discussion are missing the majority, but whatever. I'm perfectly happy to sit here and watch this situation spread across the country, and will giggle like a child when I read the horror stories being posted by those of you forced to confront what some here are trying to warn everyone of.
I am armed, and I am trained to use my firearms. No, I don't carry them to Walmart and force your children to stare in horror at a firearm hanging on my side. I don't need to. Yet.
But when the day comes, I will go about my business in an expedited manner and be prepared to kick to the curb those that would deny my liberty and pursuit of happiness, and faithfully defend my property with extreme prejudice; as I watch the daily review of the rise of civil discourse and anarchy.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 19, 2014, 08:08:39 PM
Clearly the point(s) in this discussion are missing the majority, but whatever. I'm perfectly happy to sit here and watch this situation spread across the country, and will giggle like a child when I read the horror stories being posted by those of you forced to confront what some here are trying to warn everyone of.
I am armed, and I am trained to use my firearms. No, I don't carry them to Walmart and force your children to stare in horror at a firearm hanging on my side. I don't need to. Yet.
But when the day comes, I will go about my business in an expedited manner and be prepared to kick to the curb those that would deny my liberty and pursuit of happiness, and faithfully defend my property with extreme prejudice; as I watch the daily review of the rise of civil discourse and anarchy.
I have no problems with anyone carrying a weapon as I am licensed to carry. Do I take it into a store no but if I have too, I will.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 19, 2014, 08:08:39 PM
Clearly the point(s) in this discussion are missing the majority, but whatever. I'm perfectly happy to sit here and watch this situation spread across the country, and will giggle like a child when I read the horror stories being posted by those of you forced to confront what some here are trying to warn everyone of.
I am armed, and I am trained to use my firearms. No, I don't carry them to Walmart and force your children to stare in horror at a firearm hanging on my side. I don't need to. Yet.
But when the day comes, I will go about my business in an expedited manner and be prepared to kick to the curb those that would deny my liberty and pursuit of happiness, and faithfully defend my property with extreme prejudice; as I watch the daily review of the rise of civil discourse and anarchy.
I have always understood your point PH. I realize we are allowing our freedoms to be eradicated slowly. The point I think on this particular case is much more (or less) than an eager police action over a bad situation, but the simple fact that we didn't have all of the evidence before people jumped to their own judgement and began rioting in the streets and looting.
All the reason as to why we need real leadership to step up during such times. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are only aggravating this situation. We need to assure all citizens that justice will prevail. Not by a bully pulpit or intimidation, but by the rule of law.
I too have guns and know how to use them. I am will protect my family to the full force if that ever comes to play.
Quote from: me on August 19, 2014, 01:10:29 PM
You mean you were there and know that for a fact or are you using that creative thinking again?
No, I wasn't but I do train dogs with several K9 officers and that fraternity is fairly small so they tend to know and talk to their counterparts from different departments and jurisdictions. Most of the information that is just now being made public I already knew last Saturday.
Either way, I'd expect that being the racist you are, would be dancing in the streets at the thought of any black person being gunned down?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 20, 2014, 07:57:49 AM
I realize we are allowing our freedoms to be eradicated slowly.
Which ones, specifically?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 20, 2014, 11:25:59 AM
Which ones, specifically?
I just think we have to be careful with such actions or powers given to local, state and federal authorities like this coupled in with 'No Knock Warrants', National Security Letters and expanding our government in such a way is pissing away our freedoms, right in front of us. Where high ranking officials and the media are becoming the judge, jury and executioner....is very dangerous.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 20, 2014, 11:25:29 AM
No, I wasn't but I do train dogs with several K9 officers and that fraternity is fairly small so they tend to know and talk to their counterparts from different departments and jurisdictions. Most of the information that is just now being made public I already knew last Saturday.
Either way, I'd expect that being the racist you are, would be dancing in the streets at the thought of any black person being gunned down?
I'm so glad you THINK you know so much about me Ex.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 20, 2014, 07:57:49 AM
I have always understood your point PH. I realize we are allowing our freedoms to be eradicated slowly. The point I think on this particular case is much more (or less) than an eager police action over a bad situation, but the simple fact that we didn't have all of the evidence before people jumped to their own judgement and began rioting in the streets and looting.
All the reason as to why we need real leadership to step up during such times. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are only aggravating this situation. We need to assure all citizens that justice will prevail. Not by a bully pulpit or intimidation, but by the rule of law.
I too have guns and know how to use them. I am will protect my family to the full force if that ever comes to play.
For not being racist Hawk you sure know who to blame in this case. :grin2: What kind of guns do you have Bunky, a BB gun and an Air Rifle pellet gun. :haha: :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on August 20, 2014, 01:51:28 PM
For not being racist Hawk you sure know who to blame in this case. :grin2: What kind of guns do you have Bunky, a BB gun and an Air Rifle pellet gun. :haha: :haha:
Does telling the truth make one racist? Are you really that shallow?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 20, 2014, 01:59:45 PM
Does telling the truth make one racist? Are you really that shallow?
Yes, he is HH.
Quote from: me on August 20, 2014, 02:40:23 PM
Yes, he is HH.
Welcome to the shallow end of the pool, Honey Dipper. :wink: :biggrin:
CNN is reporting that a decision from the grand jury is expected to be announced today. Batten down the hatches. It may be a rough Thanksgiving in Ferguson.
Grand jury has reached a decision. :spooked: :spooked:
T-1 hour until the announcement.
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
T-1 hour until the announcement.
Jack wagons are taking their sweet assed time about announcing it! :rolleyes: :icon_evil:
Yeah, I know. I really question the sense of making the announcement at this time of night. That gives any miscreants, who may be up to no good, several hours of darkness under which to operate.
I don't get that part of it. Seems to me like this thing would be better announced first thing in the morning.
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2014, 08:37:36 PM
Yeah, I know. I really question the sense of making the announcement at this time of night. That gives any miscreants, who may be up to no good, several hours of darkness under which to operate.
I don't get that part of it. Seems to me like this thing would be better announced first thing in the morning.
AND it gives those speculating a whole TON of time to whip up an emotional storm from which the opposition can launch a maelstrom of anger and violence.
Here it comes. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on November 24, 2014, 09:16:22 PM
AND it gives those speculating a whole TON of time to whip up an emotional storm from which the opposition can launch a maelstrom of anger and violence.
Here we go!
Part of me thinks some of these people are intent on causing a disturbance regardless of what the decision is.
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2014, 09:17:22 PM
Here we go!
Part of me thinks some of these people are intent on causing a disturbance regardless of what the decision is.
This guy is making a CYA speech and reviewing the endless weeks of horse shit leading up to this. . .
And yes, you know there will be violence no matter what. . . :spooked:
Uh oh. No charges. :spooked: :spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2014, 09:25:57 PM
Uh oh. No charges. :spooked: :spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
:spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
They've begun. . . :eek:
Quote from: Palehorse on November 24, 2014, 09:29:20 PM
They've begun. . . :eek:
Yep! I feel bad for the residents of that area.
Not just there. They've started in Chicago I am being told. :spooked:
None of them are even bothering to listen to the evidence as it's currently being laid out.
The only difference that they could have made, is to have saved the decision announcement for the end of this statement, rather than announcing it and then laying out the evidence.
What everyone seems to forget is if the kid hadn't been doing wrong the cops would not have been called and he would still be alive. The out of town shit stirrers are costing the city and state a lot of money. There are now families who will be losing paychecks because of businesses being destroyed. Those are the people who need jailed and punished.
I watched it on MSNBC -- listened to every word, from start to finish. The case, as presented by the prosecutor, exonerates the policeman.
It is always people from out of state or out of town who loot the towns and the locals suffer!
The following was posted my an IMPD friend of mine who works the northwest district. (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPS/IMPD/Enforcement/Districts/Documents/Northwest_WebMap.pdf) It's worth a read.
"Warning...long rant ahead.....From the start of this Ferguson MO/Michael Brown/Darrin Wilson incident I haven't posted any opinions or thoughts. I have been waiting for the system we have in place to run it's course. This entire incident and what has happened since has really bothered me.
This is what I do know, I am an American Police Officer. My job is the only profession in the United States where I have the ability to take another human life. 99.9% of the time that decision has to be made in a split second. Let me say that again, when I go to work each night there is the possibility I will have to take the life of another human being, someone's loved one. I have no military training, I'm not some ultimate warrior, I don't want to shoot somebody. I am a human being just like everybody else. I am a father, a husband, a son, a brother, an uncle, a friend, and a neighbor. I went to grade school, high school, and college. I play football in the front yard with my kids, I have dogs, I argue with my wife, I make bad decisions, I get sick, I have to blow my nose like everyone else.
Lets talk about that BIG elephant in the room. I have been an American Police Officer for 13 years. During those 13 years I have been shot at, I have been punched, spit on, kicked, and been called every 4 letter word you can imagine. I have shot someone, I have bled in the streets, I have had broken bones, Sprains, I have been involved in vehicle crashes, and I have taken a life. The elephant in the room is that during most of these incidents I have been SCARED. Sometimes so scared that I was shaking. No one teaches you how to deal with being scared. There wasn't some magical class in the Police Academy that teaches you to rip your shirt off, show the big "S" on your chest, and solve all the worlds problems. I do know this....even though I was scared and never know whats about to happen I have a job to do. Someone has called 911 because they are at rock bottom. They have no other option but to call a complete stranger to solve their problem. That person is ME, and every other first responder in this country. I wish I didn't have to answer any 911 calls. That would mean all is right in the world!!
Here is something to think about...everyone has been involved in an argument or fight with their significant other or family member. Remember how tiring that can be? It can be physically exhausting. On any given night I respond to 3-7 domestic disturbances. I go into a strangers home and try to solver the problems of people I have never met. Sometimes it's a screaming match, sometimes it's a knock down drag out fight, sometimes there are weapons involved. I haven't had much training in social work, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I'm a normal person that has been brought in to temporarily solve the problems of other people. At the end of my shift I'm physically exhausted. At times I have fallen asleep on the way home. I walk in the door and now have to tend to my wife and 2 children at 6 AM. At times that hasn't gone very well to fault no one but myself. I'm still learning how to be the best PERSON I can be and that will probably be a never ending learning process.
I have seen unimaginable things done to children, I have been on countless homicide scenes, and have seen and heard things even the news media won't touch. I have seen Police Officers shot, injured, trapped in their Police cars after a horrible accident. I have seen Police Officers rewarded, fired, and treated like a piece of trash. We don't always make the right decisions. I know it's shocking but we make MISTAKES. Just like in EVERY PROFESSION IN THE WORLD Police Officers break laws. just like all those other professions there is a system in place that deals with people that break those laws. Less than .05% of all Police Officers in this country break the law. I don't think there is an Officer in this country that wants to work side by side with a dirty cop. I WILL NOT give up my career and my good name for someone who can't abide by the rules....PERIOD.
I don't know exactly what took place in Ferguson but what I do know is what has happened since is absolutely SICKENING. If Darrin Wilson shot someone in cold blood then he should face every consequence we have to offer. Citizens don't have the right to take the law into their own hands. Peaceful demonstrations have a much greater effect than lawless stupidity.
In closing a bit of advice, DO WHAT A POLICE OFFER SAYS...it's that simple. If you feel like that Officer has done something wrong there are SEVERAL outlets to make a complaint. If you don't listen to an Officer's commands there is a chance you might get hurt. If you assault an Officer there is a chance you might get shot. I can probably guess that Darrin Wilson was SCARED during that incident. I can probably guess that he is SCARED to death right now. The fact of the matter is if Michael Brown would have done EXACTLY what Officer Wilson told him to do none of us would even be talking about this right now. This country has has fallen into the dark hole of authority. No one has respect for others and the majority of our country has a problem with authority. No one likes being told what to do. I see this as a major failure in parenting. I am the person I am today because of my Mother. She was a single Mom who raised 3 kids and worked several jobs to provide for us. I learned respect from her and learned that I'm not always right and there are times you have to just shut up and listen!! Next time you deal with a Police Officer and have a bad experience please try to remember that he or she might have just come from a homicide scene, or a child molest investigation, or was just spit on. Does that justify an Officer being mean or rude? No, but we are human. We don't do everything right all the time!
I'll step down off my soap box but I want to leave you with this...I have an open passenger seat in my Police Car. If any of you want to see what an American Police Officer in the great City of Indianapolis goes through in 8.5 hours please get a hold of me. I promise you will see things you never thought you would see before. And guess what, you will be SCARED just like we are!!"
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 09:02:06 AM
The following was posted my an IMPD friend of mine who works the northwest district. (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPS/IMPD/Enforcement/Districts/Documents/Northwest_WebMap.pdf) It's worth a read.
"Warning...long rant ahead.....From the start of this Ferguson MO/Michael Brown/Darrin Wilson incident I haven't posted any opinions or thoughts. I have been waiting for the system we have in place to run it's course. This entire incident and what has happened since has really bothered me.
This is what I do know, I am an American Police Officer. My job is the only profession in the United States where I have the ability to take another human life. 99.9% of the time that decision has to be made in a split second. Let me say that again, when I go to work each night there is the possibility I will have to take the life of another human being, someone's loved one. I have no military training, I'm not some ultimate warrior, I don't want to shoot somebody. I am a human being just like everybody else. I am a father, a husband, a son, a brother, an uncle, a friend, and a neighbor. I went to grade school, high school, and college. I play football in the front yard with my kids, I have dogs, I argue with my wife, I make bad decisions, I get sick, I have to blow my nose like everyone else.
Lets talk about that BIG elephant in the room. I have been an American Police Officer for 13 years. During those 13 years I have been shot at, I have been punched, spit on, kicked, and been called every 4 letter word you can imagine. I have shot someone, I have bled in the streets, I have had broken bones, Sprains, I have been involved in vehicle crashes, and I have taken a life. The elephant in the room is that during most of these incidents I have been SCARED. Sometimes so scared that I was shaking. No one teaches you how to deal with being scared. There wasn't some magical class in the Police Academy that teaches you to rip your shirt off, show the big "S" on your chest, and solve all the worlds problems. I do know this....even though I was scared and never know whats about to happen I have a job to do. Someone has called 911 because they are at rock bottom. They have no other option but to call a complete stranger to solve their problem. That person is ME, and every other first responder in this country. I wish I didn't have to answer any 911 calls. That would mean all is right in the world!!
Here is something to think about...everyone has been involved in an argument or fight with their significant other or family member. Remember how tiring that can be? It can be physically exhausting. On any given night I respond to 3-7 domestic disturbances. I go into a strangers home and try to solver the problems of people I have never met. Sometimes it's a screaming match, sometimes it's a knock down drag out fight, sometimes there are weapons involved. I haven't had much training in social work, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I'm a normal person that has been brought in to temporarily solve the problems of other people. At the end of my shift I'm physically exhausted. At times I have fallen asleep on the way home. I walk in the door and now have to tend to my wife and 2 children at 6 AM. At times that hasn't gone very well to fault no one but myself. I'm still learning how to be the best PERSON I can be and that will probably be a never ending learning process.
I have seen unimaginable things done to children, I have been on countless homicide scenes, and have seen and heard things even the news media won't touch. I have seen Police Officers shot, injured, trapped in their Police cars after a horrible accident. I have seen Police Officers rewarded, fired, and treated like a piece of trash. We don't always make the right decisions. I know it's shocking but we make MISTAKES. Just like in EVERY PROFESSION IN THE WORLD Police Officers break laws. just like all those other professions there is a system in place that deals with people that break those laws. Less than .05% of all Police Officers in this country break the law. I don't think there is an Officer in this country that wants to work side by side with a dirty cop. I WILL NOT give up my career and my good name for someone who can't abide by the rules....PERIOD.
I don't know exactly what took place in Ferguson but what I do know is what has happened since is absolutely SICKENING. If Darrin Wilson shot someone in cold blood then he should face every consequence we have to offer. Citizens don't have the right to take the law into their own hands. Peaceful demonstrations have a much greater effect than lawless stupidity.
In closing a bit of advice, DO WHAT A POLICE OFFER SAYS...it's that simple. If you feel like that Officer has done something wrong there are SEVERAL outlets to make a complaint. If you don't listen to an Officer's commands there is a chance you might get hurt. If you assault an Officer there is a chance you might get shot. I can probably guess that Darrin Wilson was SCARED during that incident. I can probably guess that he is SCARED to death right now. The fact of the matter is if Michael Brown would have done EXACTLY what Officer Wilson told him to do none of us would even be talking about this right now. This country has has fallen into the dark hole of authority. No one has respect for others and the majority of our country has a problem with authority. No one likes being told what to do. I see this as a major failure in parenting. I am the person I am today because of my Mother. She was a single Mom who raised 3 kids and worked several jobs to provide for us. I learned respect from her and learned that I'm not always right and there are times you have to just shut up and listen!! Next time you deal with a Police Officer and have a bad experience please try to remember that he or she might have just come from a homicide scene, or a child molest investigation, or was just spit on. Does that justify an Officer being mean or rude? No, but we are human. We don't do everything right all the time!
I'll step down off my soap box but I want to leave you with this...I have an open passenger seat in my Police Car. If any of you want to see what an American Police Officer in the great City of Indianapolis goes through in 8.5 hours please get a hold of me. I promise you will see things you never thought you would see before. And guess what, you will be SCARED just like we are!!"
An excellent reminder that provides a perspective most forget. I agree 100% with this post and the lessons / advice it offers.
Thanks for sharing Ex! 8)
To this day I cannot understand the "purpose" of violence like that we saw last night in Ferguson. They destroyed every business in that town from what I saw, and burnt at least 12 businesses down to the ground. Now what? Everyone living in that city has to go somewhere else to obtain the goods and services they need. Even the McDonalds was severely vandalized. . .
And today the sun rises and the lives of the people of Ferguson just got exponentially harder. . .
As I read back through this thread, it really began to bother me. Some of the responses on here is exactly why we are seeing the destruction and harm to an innocent town and its people. I know I will catch holly hell from this remark, but I am telling it like it is, that our POTUS and Eric Holder should be held accountable to the unnecessary violence that is being done.
As some of the folks on here, and our WH...they by-passed the evidence and spoke before all the facts were in. The media did its normal embarrassing job, and relayed many stories that simply were NOT true.
Whatever happened to the "innocent until proven guilty" slogan that was at one time a highly regarded American rule that we proudly exclaimed.
This, like Louis Gates controversy in Cambridge Mass, where the POTUS regrettably admitted he spoke to soon, and said the Cambridge police officers "acted stupidly".
Then in the Trayvon Martin incident, before the facts were all gathered, Obama made the statement "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon,".....
All three of these incidents could have been less dramatic, if our President would have kept his mouth f'ing SHUT, until ALL the facts were gathered....but he didn't.
In Ferguson, they (the WH) sent Holder and others to the funeral of a kid, who as we now have a clearer picture of, attacked a police officer, and unfortunately ended up dead, because of his OWN actions.
It was NOT because the police officer was doing anything other than the job he was hired to do.
People were exclaiming that Micheal "the gentle giant" Brown was TRYING surrender, with his hands up, and he was then shot in the head.
The scientific evidence, along with physical evidence and eye-witness evidence says, that was NOT the case..... 12 people who looked at ALL the evidence to separated the facts and the fiction, and decided unanimously that this police officer did nothing that should indite him of any wrong doing.
Yet, the many of the black community has justified that looting, rioting, and violence is acceptable and had not our Nations President made any negative comments early on or perhaps had he supported our legal system and urged all folks to give the system a chance before passing judgement maybe this would not be the story it is today.
I agree with Purplelady, that it is probably many from other towns, that came to Ferguson to riot.......the town of Ferguson doesn't deserve this.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 09:25:44 AM
...our POTUS and Eric Holder should be held accountable to the unnecessary violence that is being done.
This statement is as asinine as your comparison of this case to the Treyvon Martin incident.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 09:33:15 AM
This statement is as asinine as your comparison of this case to the Treyvon Martin incident.
You know, I really don't give a fuck what you think.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 10:30:16 AM
You know, I really don't give a fuck what you think.
Aw, that really hurts. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 10:30:16 AM
You know, I really don't give a fuck what you think.
You really think the outcome would have been any different in this instance if there were a different POTUS and AG who took different courses of action than Holder and Obama did?
I sure don't.
From watching those crowds gathering before the announcement last night, it became increasingly clear, as I mentioned last night, that a certain segment of that group was going to stir up shit because that's what they were intent on doing regardless of the decision of the grand jury.
Quote from: Locutus on November 25, 2014, 11:18:28 AM
You really think the outcome would have been any different in this instance if there were a different POTUS and AG who took different courses of action than Holder and Obama did?
I sure don't.
From watching those crowds gathering before the announcement last night, it became increasingly clear, as I mentioned last night, that a certain segment of that group was going to stir up shit because that's what they were intent on doing regardless of the decision of the grand jury.
I really don't know, but I am certain, it didn't HELP the situation by sending our AG to a funeral of this kid, and leaning towards JUSTICE being done for him. I just think it was uncalled for and NOT in the line of duties our POTUS should be doing.....that by getting involved in every racial issue that seems to surface.
If anything, he should have thrown his support behind the Ferguson Police Dept.....and visited the cop who put his life on the line and had to "kill" an 18 year old.
I agree that this was going to happen regardless of the grand juries decision........some people has used this as an excuse to create the havoc all in the name of racial injustice.
Excellent post Exterminator! I have friends who are cops and my ex brother in law is! Everyday, they could have not come home due to the decision of one or several! There are good cops out there and there are bad cops also but every profession has good and bad!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 11:53:44 AM
I really don't know...
Why don't you just stop with this and save yourself a lot of typing?
:rolleyes: I don't really have anything to say to you....not really aiming this post at you....and, like said earlier... :yes: I really don't ...
nuff said.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 09:25:44 AM
. . . but I am telling it like it is, that our POTUS and Eric Holder should be held accountable to the unnecessary violence that is being done.
As some of the folks on here, and our WH...they by-passed the evidence and spoke before all the facts were in. The media did its normal embarrassing job, and relayed many stories that simply were NOT true.
. . .
The POTUS and Mr Holder have as much to do with what transpired as a bird farting in Zimbabwe has to do with hurricanes. The fact is what they have done is no different than what was done during the Rodney King, Watts, and Democratic National Convention riots; the government attempted to quell the violence by ensuring a thorough and impartial investigation was conducted, and by demonstrating sympathy to the victims and their families. And I venture to say if they did none of these things you'd be caterwauling over that too!
Nobody bypassed the evidence because it was not available to the general public; yet the media felt it necessary to speculate ad-nausm over the incident and gave a voice to baseless speculation and accusations from those with nefarious intention.
If anyone is to be held accountable for the violence and destruction that took place in Ferguson last night and in the preceding months, it is the people of Ferguson themselves.
- For allowing those with nefarious intention to incite an emotional maelstrom even though they did not reside in the area.
- For failing to practice responsible parenting and allowing their children of all ages to run rampant.
- For failing to take heed of the victims family and their wishes.
- For destroying their community and the property of their business leaders.
- For setting the wrong example for the nation surrounding how to constructively deal with these situations.
- For making each one of their lives exponentially harder thanks to the elimination of goods and services within their very own community.
The list of failures goes on and on, but in case you missed it, it is readily available via the media outlet of your choice; and will be for weeks.
I find it challenging to extend charity toward those who will not even make the slightest effort to help themselves first. (Via emotional restraint and decorum).
Quote from: Palehorse on November 25, 2014, 12:34:28 PM
The POTUS and Mr Holder have as much to do with what transpired as a bird farting in Zimbabwe has to do with hurricanes.
<interjection>
If one ascribes to certain elements of Chaos Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory), a bird farting in Zimbabwe may very well influence a hurricane. :yes:
</interjection>
Sorry, just couldn't help myself. Carry on! ;D
Quote from: Locutus on November 25, 2014, 12:39:38 PM
<interjection>
If one ascribes to certain elements of Chaos Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory), a bird farting in Zimbabwe may very well influence a hurricane. :yes:
</interjection>
Sorry, just couldn't help myself. Carry on! ;D
And therein lies the basis for my use of the analogy. The bird farting in Zimbabwe did not fart to create a hurricane, but rather to relieve a painful condition or as a natural response to its digestive process. . . The WH and Holder did not do what they did to create anarchy in Ferguson, but rather to respond to a painful situation and as a natural reaction that was necessary. ;)
I know. I was just messing around. ;D
Quote from: Palehorse on November 25, 2014, 12:45:35 PM
The WH and Holder did not do what they did to create anarchy in Ferguson, but rather to respond to a painful situation and as a natural reaction that was necessary. ;)
I'm sure they didn't want to create anarchy in Ferguson, but they DID jump the gun, and brought much more national attention on this than what was necessary.
They didn't need to say anything.........at least until ALL OF THE EVIDENCE was in. More bad leadership.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 01:04:55 PM
Neither do you.
I'm not the POTUS, I'm just here to bug the shit out of you...and I seem to be doing a good job of it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
I'm not the POTUS...
...ergo, have even less authority to offer your opinion yet here you are!
QuoteI'm just here to bug the shit out of you...and I seem to be doing a good job of it.
LOL! Don't flatter yourself.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 09:02:06 AM
On any given night I respond to 3-7 domestic disturbances. I go into a strangers home and try to solver the problems of people I have never met. Sometimes it's a screaming match, sometimes it's a knock down drag out fight, sometimes there are weapons involved.
My brother used to say that this was the most nerve-racking and dangerous part of his job.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
They didn't need to say anything.........at least until ALL OF THE EVIDENCE was in. More bad leadership.
Yeah, right!!!!! And then you would be all over them for "lack of leadership."
Quote from: Bo D on November 25, 2014, 01:23:24 PM
My brother used to say that this was the most nerve-racking and dangerous part of his job.
Absolutely. When I was in law enforcement, I went to domestics in which the alleged victim attacked us while we were trying to handcuff her abuser and a friend was at one in which the spouse attempted to retrieve a handgun from a back bedroom while they struggled with her husband. Domestic calls
always require backup.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 01:36:08 PM
Absolutely. When I was in law enforcement, I went to domestics in which the alleged victim attacked us while we were trying to handcuff her abuser and a friend was at one in which the spouse attempted to retrieve a handgun from a back bedroom while they struggled with her husband. Domestic calls always require backup.
My ex brother in law always said domestics were the worse and most dangerous. All my law office friends say the same thing!
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 01:21:19 PM
LOL! Don't flatter yourself.
Too late, I already flattered myself.................................no change backs!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 02:10:15 PM
Too late, I already flattered myself...
Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays? :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
I'm sure they didn't want to create anarchy in Ferguson, but they DID jump the gun, and brought much more national attention on this than what was necessary.
They didn't need to say anything.........at least until ALL OF THE EVIDENCE was in. More bad leadership.
No they did not. Their actions served to take an over-blown situation and calm it to a simmering one. And one that SHOULD be simmering still except for those who refuse to engage in constructive dialog; choosing instead to engage in destructive behaviors.
Look at what happened during the Watts Riots 8/11 through 8/17/1965.
The Democratic National Convention of 1968 August.
The Rodney King Riots of 1992 April.
What government actions were taken then?
Quote from: Palehorse on November 25, 2014, 02:55:13 PM
No they did not. Their actions served to take an over-blown situation and calm it to a simmering one. And one that SHOULD be simmering still except for those who refuse to engage in constructive dialog; choosing instead to engage in destructive behaviors.
Look at what happened during the Watts Riots 8/11 through 8/17/1965.
The Democratic National Convention of 1968 August.
The Rodney King Riots of 1992 April.
What government actions were taken then?
We can argue this until the cow comes home.......I think the POTUS should have waited until the facts come in BEFORE he sends someone to a funeral.........THAT makes the COP look guilty.
If Brown would have overpowered this officer and killed him, do you think the POTUS would have went to that funeral? I will answer that.......NO.
It is obvious, that sending Eric Holder to this funeral did NOT make this situation any BETTER. It only assured it will be a racial issue.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 03:10:56 PM
. . ..I think the POTUS should have waited until the facts come in BEFORE he sends someone to a funeral.........THAT makes the COP look guilty.
. . .
It is obvious, that sending Eric Holder to this funeral did NOT make this situation any BETTER. It only assured it will be a racial issue.
It only makes the cop look guilty to those who refuse to abide by the "innocent until proven guilty" portion of our laws. . . In the eyes of the law it did nothing to influence the administration of said law.
It
IS a racial issue, and a national one.
Look at the arrest rates of minorities verses white. . . (The statistics have been splashed across several media sites within the last 2 weeks or so). If you can see those stats and still deny there is a problem, then it may be a problem of your own as well.
Or perhaps the conservative solution for the disparity in arrest rates is to increase the number of white families living in poverty?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 03:10:56 PM
We can argue this until the cow comes home.......I think the POTUS should have waited until the facts come in BEFORE he sends someone to a funeral.........THAT makes the COP look guilty.
If Brown would have overpowered this officer and killed him, do you think the POTUS would have went to that funeral? I will answer that.......NO.
It is obvious, that sending Eric Holder to this funeral did NOT make this situation any BETTER. It only assured it will be a racial issue.
1. You simply think the 'nigra' president should have waited - not any white one. We can always count on you to be there with ideological and racist stupidity when it comes to this president, his black appointees, and racial matters in general.
2. The 'cop' is 'guilty'. Maybe not in the eyes of the law as it currently stands, but nevertheless he had the option to not take a life and he chose to be judge, jury, and executioner.
3. Specious reasoning as a justification for your racism. That incident didn't happen therefore any conjecture to arrive at a conclusion as to the actions of your targets is purely BS.
4. More of your crapola attempting to justify your racism. The situation was a racial situation from the get go. There was no way around it. Holder and the President's actions at least gave the people some hope that it had the attention of powers not under local sway.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 09:25:44 AM
This, like Louis Gates controversy in Cambridge Mass, where the POTUS regrettably admitted he spoke to soon, and said the Cambridge police officers "acted stupidly".
Then in the Trayvon Martin incident, before the facts were all gathered, Obama made the statement "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon,".....
All three of these incidents could have been less dramatic, if our President would have kept his mouth f'ing SHUT, until ALL the facts were gathered....but he didn't.
1. Do you even know who Gates is? The officer did act 'stupidly' in that instance. It's situations like that which point out the utter ridiculousness of how so many white officers deal with blacks.
2. OMG! How DARE that 'nigra' in YOUR 'white' house make such a valid point! Did you really think that if Obama and Michelle had a son he would look like your pansy white arse? Get real...real other than real, real, stupid. Jeezus-peezus!
3. That's just a blatant lie from you. There's not one thing that you can make a direct - or even an indirect - A to B connection to any 'dramatics' in those situations...and you wonder why you get the 'racist' tag to wear. :rolleyes:
Got nothing to say to you Y. :no:
Quote from: Exterminator on November 25, 2014, 09:02:06 AM
The following was posted my an IMPD friend of mine who works the northwest district. (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPS/IMPD/Enforcement/Districts/Documents/Northwest_WebMap.pdf) It's worth a read.
"Warning...long rant ahead.....From the start of this Ferguson MO/Michael Brown/Darrin Wilson incident I haven't posted any opinions or thoughts. I have been waiting for the system we have in place to run it's course. This entire incident and what has happened since has really bothered me.
This is what I do know, I am an American Police Officer. My job is the only profession in the United States where I have the ability to take another human life. 99.9% of the time that decision has to be made in a split second. Let me say that again, when I go to work each night there is the possibility I will have to take the life of another human being, someone's loved one. I have no military training, I'm not some ultimate warrior, I don't want to shoot somebody. I am a human being just like everybody else. I am a father, a husband, a son, a brother, an uncle, a friend, and a neighbor. I went to grade school, high school, and college. I play football in the front yard with my kids, I have dogs, I argue with my wife, I make bad decisions, I get sick, I have to blow my nose like everyone else.
Lets talk about that BIG elephant in the room. I have been an American Police Officer for 13 years. During those 13 years I have been shot at, I have been punched, spit on, kicked, and been called every 4 letter word you can imagine. I have shot someone, I have bled in the streets, I have had broken bones, Sprains, I have been involved in vehicle crashes, and I have taken a life. The elephant in the room is that during most of these incidents I have been SCARED. Sometimes so scared that I was shaking. No one teaches you how to deal with being scared. There wasn't some magical class in the Police Academy that teaches you to rip your shirt off, show the big "S" on your chest, and solve all the worlds problems. I do know this....even though I was scared and never know whats about to happen I have a job to do. Someone has called 911 because they are at rock bottom. They have no other option but to call a complete stranger to solve their problem. That person is ME, and every other first responder in this country. I wish I didn't have to answer any 911 calls. That would mean all is right in the world!!
Here is something to think about...everyone has been involved in an argument or fight with their significant other or family member. Remember how tiring that can be? It can be physically exhausting. On any given night I respond to 3-7 domestic disturbances. I go into a strangers home and try to solver the problems of people I have never met. Sometimes it's a screaming match, sometimes it's a knock down drag out fight, sometimes there are weapons involved. I haven't had much training in social work, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I'm a normal person that has been brought in to temporarily solve the problems of other people. At the end of my shift I'm physically exhausted. At times I have fallen asleep on the way home. I walk in the door and now have to tend to my wife and 2 children at 6 AM. At times that hasn't gone very well to fault no one but myself. I'm still learning how to be the best PERSON I can be and that will probably be a never ending learning process.
I have seen unimaginable things done to children, I have been on countless homicide scenes, and have seen and heard things even the news media won't touch. I have seen Police Officers shot, injured, trapped in their Police cars after a horrible accident. I have seen Police Officers rewarded, fired, and treated like a piece of trash. We don't always make the right decisions. I know it's shocking but we make MISTAKES. Just like in EVERY PROFESSION IN THE WORLD Police Officers break laws. just like all those other professions there is a system in place that deals with people that break those laws. Less than .05% of all Police Officers in this country break the law. I don't think there is an Officer in this country that wants to work side by side with a dirty cop. I WILL NOT give up my career and my good name for someone who can't abide by the rules....PERIOD.
I don't know exactly what took place in Ferguson but what I do know is what has happened since is absolutely SICKENING. If Darrin Wilson shot someone in cold blood then he should face every consequence we have to offer. Citizens don't have the right to take the law into their own hands. Peaceful demonstrations have a much greater effect than lawless stupidity.
In closing a bit of advice, DO WHAT A POLICE OFFER SAYS...it's that simple. If you feel like that Officer has done something wrong there are SEVERAL outlets to make a complaint. If you don't listen to an Officer's commands there is a chance you might get hurt. If you assault an Officer there is a chance you might get shot. I can probably guess that Darrin Wilson was SCARED during that incident. I can probably guess that he is SCARED to death right now. The fact of the matter is if Michael Brown would have done EXACTLY what Officer Wilson told him to do none of us would even be talking about this right now. This country has has fallen into the dark hole of authority. No one has respect for others and the majority of our country has a problem with authority. No one likes being told what to do. I see this as a major failure in parenting. I am the person I am today because of my Mother. She was a single Mom who raised 3 kids and worked several jobs to provide for us. I learned respect from her and learned that I'm not always right and there are times you have to just shut up and listen!! Next time you deal with a Police Officer and have a bad experience please try to remember that he or she might have just come from a homicide scene, or a child molest investigation, or was just spit on. Does that justify an Officer being mean or rude? No, but we are human. We don't do everything right all the time!
I'll step down off my soap box but I want to leave you with this...I have an open passenger seat in my Police Car. If any of you want to see what an American Police Officer in the great City of Indianapolis goes through in 8.5 hours please get a hold of me. I promise you will see things you never thought you would see before. And guess what, you will be SCARED just like we are!!"
I don't think that is such a great justification for anything (to me it's more like an invitation for a pity party) - and especially not for the Ferguson situation.
These points won't necessarily be in proper order because I don't want Ferguson to get lost in this.
1. Do we really want to execute people for theft or assault in this country? Is that what we want and what we've come down to - especially when it's white cop and black (pick your minority) perp?
2. Do we really want LEO's on the job whose response to a situation - even one where they might take an arse whuppin' - to be deadly force, execution.
Do you REALLY want to live in that country?
Oh sure, for most of us - particularly because we're white and only see/hear about situations like that in Ferguson in the media - don't care, those folks are 'criminals' and 'deserve' it, so it's OK for our LEO's to take on the authority of judge, jury, and executioner.
We'll let me tell y'all that we're supposed to be a country and society of LAW which sets the standard for every person to face their accusers and the charges and have their day in court - not be killed in the streets. Yeah, some of these yahoos are despicable scum but you cannot have a county/society of law for only some of the people. It's has to be equal for everyone.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 03:58:15 PM
Got nothing to say to you Y. :no:
I know you don't, Hank, because you don't have a leg to stand on. You'd rather be a closed minded bigot/racist and ideologue than open yourself up to self examination/criticism because it's not a pretty picture of yourself, especially as you portray yourself on the internutz.
You know that in general I like you, but that doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to or refuse to call you out on your BS. Capisce?
Quote from: Y on November 25, 2014, 04:25:33 PM
I know you don't, Hank, because you don't have a leg to stand on. You'd rather be a closed minded bigot/racist and ideologue than open yourself up to self examination/criticism because it's not a pretty picture of yourself, especially as you portray yourself on the internutz.
You know that in general I like you, but that doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to or refuse to call you out on your BS. Capisce?
Oh, I like you too, in general, but on the internet, you are too biased with your blind opinion, and you resort to calling people racist when you don't have a leg to stand on. ;)
The core of the problem in the Ferguson incident is the same as in most police shootings - the extremely wide latitude allowed to justify the use of deadly force.
My position is that it is far too wide and allows for far too many abuses and corruptions.
One can't have a civil society and one based on the rule of law and yet have LEOs to so easily assume the power of judge, jury, and executioner. You wind up with what we have now, far too many interactions between LEOs and citizens end up with deadly force being used.
Here's the Ferguson issue from LEO's perspective, including an analysis of the applicable law: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7782643-Why-Officer-Darren-Wilson-wasnt-indicted/
The problem is that it's simple justification.
Now I understand there are dangers to the job - though not nearly as dangerous as espoused, as of 2013 LEO still hadn't shown up in Forbe's top 10 dangerous jobs in America - but then no one drafts anyone to be an LEO. As with any job, when you take it you assume all the inherent risks. That's not to say we shouldn't try to make the job as reasonably safe as humanly possible, but with LEOs that can't be at the expense of our rule of law.
With the Ferguson LEO shooting, I see the officer 'guilty' of resorting to unnecessary deadly force, and probably of resorting to the 'dead men tell no tales' so common in situations of self defense. Officer Wilson had the option of waiting for back up before confronting the situation. Wilson also had the option of driving out of the situation when he was supposedly attacked. I see no scenario with the facts as currently known that should have prompted deadly force.
Just to preempt one of the common arguments, from the videos I've seen Wilson is right handed meaning his gun was on his right side, away from the driver's door, and with the car door and Wilson's body between the outside driver's side and Wilson's gun.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 04:37:41 PM
Oh, I like you too, in general, but on the internet, you are too biased with your blind opinion, and you resort to calling people racist when you don't have a leg to stand on. ;)
PFFT! That's simple mimicry and CYA from you. When have you EVER seen me put forth a 'blind' opinion.
I'd even ask that about me of anyone here. Practically all the folks here have known me for years upon years. Unlike you, I neither get my 'talking' points nor reach up my arse for any 'opinion' I propose. ;)
And truthfully you can't prove otherwise. ;)
Quote from: Y on November 25, 2014, 05:06:16 PM
PFFT! That's simple mimicry and CYA from you. When have you EVER seen me put forth a 'blind' opinion.
I'd even ask that about me of anyone here. Practically all the folks here have known me for years upon years. Unlike you, I neither get my 'talking' points nor reach up my arse for any 'opinion' I propose. ;)
And truthfully you can't prove otherwise. ;)
Whatever, just because you post a link, doesn't mean you are correct. It means you found someone that supports the same idea you have, but it doesn't mean you are correct....it is just your opinion.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 05:12:44 PM
Whatever, just because you post a link, doesn't mean you are correct. It means you found someone that supports the same idea you have, but it doesn't mean you are correct....it is just your opinion.
Good Grief, Charlie Brown!
I should have known, because by the way you use links and C/P - the way you describe above and attribute to me - has always shown you don't understand the usage of evidence.
There is a major difference between what you describe - what you practice - and how I, and several others here, present evidence as a showing of underlying fact (that's extremely important) to build a case for the position/opinion espoused, and not the opinion itself as you and you ilk so casually do.
I do understand, because the problem is that you and your ilk appear to lack the ability to craft an argument and are therefore left to parroting/regurgitating someone elses words - usually verbatim - and thinking you've actually expressed your own 'opinion'.
Quote from: Palehorse on November 25, 2014, 03:35:36 PM
It only makes the cop look guilty to those who refuse to abide by the "innocent until proven guilty" portion of our laws. . . In the eyes of the law it did nothing to influence the administration of said law.
It IS a racial issue, and a national one.
Look at the arrest rates of minorities verses white. . . (The statistics have been splashed across several media sites within the last 2 weeks or so). If you can see those stats and still deny there is a problem, then it may be a problem of your own as well.
Or perhaps the conservative solution for the disparity in arrest rates is to increase the number of white families living in poverty?
Those are stats taken from minority areas so, yes, it is going to seem biased. A Chicago ghetto is largely black so therefore the arrest rate for blacks is going to outnumber that of whites.
Quote from: Y on November 25, 2014, 05:01:15 PM
The core of the problem in the Ferguson incident is the same as in most police shootings - the extremely wide latitude allowed to justify the use of deadly force.
My position is that it is far too wide and allows for far too many abuses and corruptions.
One can't have a civil society and one based on the rule of law and yet have LEOs to so easily assume the power of judge, jury, and executioner. You wind up with what we have now, far too many interactions between LEOs and citizens end up with deadly force being used.
Here's the Ferguson issue from LEO's perspective, including an analysis of the applicable law: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7782643-Why-Officer-Darren-Wilson-wasnt-indicted/
The problem is that it's simple justification.
Now I understand there are dangers to the job - though not nearly as dangerous as espoused, as of 2013 LEO still hadn't shown up in Forbe's top 10 dangerous jobs in America - but then no one drafts anyone to be an LEO. As with any job, when you take it you assume all the inherent risks. That's not to say we shouldn't try to make the job as reasonably safe as humanly possible, but with LEOs that can't be at the expense of our rule of law.
With the Ferguson LEO shooting, I see the officer 'guilty' of resorting to unnecessary deadly force, and probably of resorting to the 'dead men tell no tales' so common in situations of self defense. Officer Wilson had the option of waiting for back up before confronting the situation. Wilson also had the option of driving out of the situation when he was supposedly attacked. I see no scenario with the facts as currently known that should have prompted deadly force.
Just to preempt one of the common arguments, from the videos I've seen Wilson is right handed meaning his gun was on his right side, away from the driver's door, and with the car door and Wilson's body between the outside driver's side and Wilson's gun.
The shooting would have never happened if Brown hadn't robbed that store and had the law called on him. He was in the wrong period. He made a poor choice and it cost him his life. Yes, it is unfortunate that a life was lost but everyone needs to quit making this a black and white thing because it happens to whites too. It is a state issue to deal with not a federal issue any way you look at it and they need to stay the hell out of it. It is costing that town and state a lot of money because it was made public and caused businesses to be burned, looted, and vandalized. How many people are not going to have a paycheck now because of all of this? His, Brown's, behavior cannot be excused just because he's black and that seems to be what is happening because they, the powers that be whether it be the administration or Sharpton and the Panthers, want to create unrest by making it a black on white thing and drawing the rest of the country into it.
We have some Republicans on the Zone who are more racist than most. :yes:
But we need some real changes in the police state we have become. 1 - We need a civilian police board who examines all police abuse. Also these people will be change each year and none can be related to any city official or police officer. With the power to fire these bad cops. 2 - No money that comes from police action, like tickets can finance any city expenses. None of the money can be used to pay for police actions. Any and all money the cops take in will be used for the poor, hungry and homeless people in that city. Cops have no business being revenue collectors, it always lead to corruption. If these changes were made you would see a big change in police arrests and tickets. :yes: :rant: :police: Smiling cops they are not.
Quote from: The Troll on November 25, 2014, 07:20:18 PM
We have some Republicans on the Zone who are more racist than most. :yes:
We do? Last time I noticed you were the king of making racist statements.
Quote from: me on November 25, 2014, 07:15:49 PM
The shooting would have never happened if Brown hadn't robbed that store and had the law called on him. He was in the wrong period. He made a poor choice and it cost him his life. Yes, it is unfortunate that a life was lost but everyone needs to quit making this a black and white thing because it happens to whites too. It is a state issue to deal with not a federal issue any way you look at it and they need to stay the hell out of it. It is costing that town and state a lot of money because it was made public and caused businesses to be burned, looted, and vandalized. How many people are not going to have a paycheck now because of all of this? His, Brown's, behavior cannot be excused just because he's black and that seems to be what is happening because they, the powers that be whether it be the administration or Sharpton and the Panthers, want to create unrest by making it a black on white thing and drawing the rest of the country into it.
I agree 100% of everything you just said.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 07:23:41 PM
I agree 100% of everything you just said.
As I remember it the killer cop didn't get the report of the robbery. It was in the news for many days. Were the cops came up with it is bullshit as usual. :rant: He pulled up to them to say something about them walking in the middle of the street. The cop killed the boy right out and he should be tried for murder. Let a criminal trial clear him if he isn't guilty. :redface: :mad: :mad: :mad: :rant:
Quote from: The Troll on November 25, 2014, 07:35:24 PM
As I remember it the killer cop didn't get the report of the robbery. It was in the news for many days. Were the cops came up with it is bullshit as usual. :rant: He pulled up to them to say something about them walking in the middle of the street. The cop killed the boy right out and he should be tried for murder. Let a criminal trial clear him if he isn't guilty. :redface: :mad: :mad: :mad: :rant:
Were you there? You didn't listen very well last night did you?
Quote from: me on November 25, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Were you there? You didn't listen very well last night did you?
Funny, but a grand jury has to hear everything and weigh the evidence that there is enough to have a criminal trial. They did that and and their wasn't. Plus the grand jury was made up of about 7 blacks and 5 whites. Don't be a thug and comply with the police and things like this wouldn't happen!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 25, 2014, 07:58:55 PM
Funny, but a grand jury has to hear everything and weigh the evidence that there is enough to have a criminal trial. They did that and and their wasn't. Plus the grand jury was made up of about 7 blacks and 5 whites. Don't be a thug and comply with the police and things like this wouldn't happen!
Actually, it was 9 whites and 3 blacks.
Quote from: Locutus on November 25, 2014, 08:24:05 PM
Actually, it was 9 whites and 3 blacks.
Okay! The point is that there was not a sufficient evidence to indict the officer!
Quote from: The Troll on November 25, 2014, 07:35:24 PM
As I remember it the killer cop didn't get the report of the robbery. It was in the news for many days. Were the cops came up with it is bullshit as usual. :rant: He pulled up to them to say something about them walking in the middle of the street. The cop killed the boy right out and he should be tried for murder. Let a criminal trial clear him if he isn't guilty. :redface: :mad: :mad: :mad: :rant:
unbelievable
This is why we have riots. People with this mentality!
If anyone is so inclined, here is a link to the evidence that the grand jury saw.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_documents/ferguson-shooting/
Another link to the same: (78 separate items and links to documentation)
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/25/366507379/ferguson-docs-how-the-grand-jury-reached-a-decision#docs
Thanks for posting that Locutus
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 25, 2014, 07:58:55 PM
Funny, but a grand jury has to hear everything and weigh the evidence that there is enough to have a criminal trial. They did that and and their wasn't. Plus the grand jury was made up of about 7 blacks and 5 whites. Don't be a thug and comply with the police and things like this wouldn't happen!
Why would I think that you would get this wrong? :haha: You seem wrong on some many things. :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on November 26, 2014, 10:52:54 AM
Why would I think that you would get this wrong? :haha: You seem wrong on some many things. :haha:
No, a grand jury listens to evidence and decides if there is enough evidence for a trial. I was wrong about the black-white ratio of people on there but there was not enough evidence for a trial. I can tell that you have no clue how the legal system works but that is not surprising.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 26, 2014, 11:46:24 AM
No, a grand jury listens to evidence and decides if there is enough evidence for a trial. I was wrong about the black-white ratio of people on there but there was not enough evidence for a trial. I can tell that you have no clue how the legal system works but that is not surprising.
:groan: The grand jury didn't get the whole truth, there was no cross examination of the witness. :no: They could have just sit there an lied and no one was there to catch them in a lie. The cop lied through his teeth, that I have no doubt of. :owned:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 26, 2014, 11:46:24 AM
No, a grand jury listens to evidence and decides if there is enough evidence for a trial. I was wrong about the black-white ratio of people on there but there was not enough evidence for a trial. I can tell that you have no clue how the legal system works but that is not surprising.
I do believe you're right Purplelady.......he has no clue.
Quote from: The Troll on November 26, 2014, 07:39:29 PM
:groan: The grand jury didn't get the whole truth, there was no cross examination of the witness. :no: They could have just sit there an lied and no one was there to catch them in a lie. The cop lied through his teeth, that I have no doubt of. :owned:
Really, according to reports they cross examined several people and most of the time cross examination takes place in a trial not a grand jury.
Grand juries perform both accusatory and investigatory functions.
Grand juries are empowered to compel witnesses to testify and review all evidence in the process of determining whether said testimony / evidence meets the legal requirements to pursue formal legal charges against the party / parties being accused of wrong-doing.
A Grand Jury is not under the jurisdiction of the court
I don't know where some of you people get your information, but you are wrong. :yes: It has been proven that a female prosecutor gave the jury the unconstitutional law on how a cop had the right to shoot a fleeing person. :yes: This court ruling was a fraud and this will come out as a miscarriage of justice. :rant:
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 27, 2014, 12:12:48 PM
:rolleyes:
Henry, you want to put up some money that you are right and I am wrong. :wink: :biggrin: let's say $100 bill would be a good start. :yes: You have been wrong so many times when I wanted to bet you I could take a vacation in Florida. :biggrin: :wink:
Again I say... :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Troll on November 27, 2014, 11:56:30 AM
I don't know where some of you people get your information, but you are wrong. :yes: It has been proven that a female prosecutor gave the jury the unconstitutional law on how a cop had the right to shoot a fleeing person. :yes: This court ruling was a fraud and this will come out as a miscarriage of justice. :rant:
That "fleeing person" was a 6 feet 4, almost 300 pound 'teenager' who had just robbed a convenience store, and was walking down the middle of the road with a friend when a policeman told him to move over. Instead of complying, the teenager attacked the policeman while he was still in his car.
I would guess, from that behavior, that he was high, either on alcohol or some kind of drug. Anyway, as my father would have said, all hell broke loose. And the media? :spooked:
~
"Now that the grand jury has done its job, isn't it time the media got the Ferguson storyline correct? Ever since the tragic death of Michael Brown, we've heard that an unarmed black teenager was gunned down by a white police officer."
"We now know that a more appropriate line would have been, "Violent robbery suspect killed in attack on police officer." But the media invested early in the "unarmed teenager" angle and kept repeating it.
"Mr. Brown did not deserve to lose his life over a box of cigars. But he should not have assaulted a store employee or attacked a police officer who confronted him, as are alleged. The only person who put Mtr. Brown in the position in which a police officer would find it necessary to shoot him was Mr. Brown himself.
"Having done so much to bring about the violence, it is probably too late for the major media to undo the damage done. But isn't it time to get the story right?" -- John Vencius, Oakton
YES! Libby
Quote from: libby on November 29, 2014, 11:18:19 PM
That "fleeing person" was a 6 feet 4, almost 300 pound 'teenager' who had just robbed a convenience store, and was walking down the middle of the road with a friend when a policeman told him to move over. Instead of complying, the teenager attacked the policeman while he was still in his car.
I would guess, from that behavior, that he was high, either on alcohol or some kind of drug. Anyway, as my father would have said, all hell broke loose. And the media? :spooked:
~
"Now that the grand jury has done its job, isn't it time the media got the Ferguson storyline correct? Ever since the tragic death of Michael Brown, we've heard that an unarmed black teenager was gunned down by a white police officer."
"We now know that a more appropriate line would have been, "Violent robbery suspect killed in attack on police officer." But the media invested early in the "unarmed teenager" angle and kept repeating it.
"Mr. Brown did not deserve to lose his life over a box of cigars. But he should not have assaulted a store employee or attacked a police officer who confronted him, as are alleged. The only person who put Mtr. Brown in the position in which a police officer would find it necessary to shoot him was Mr. Brown himself.
"Having done so much to bring about the violence, it is probably too late for the major media to undo the damage done. But isn't it time to get the story right?" -- John Vencius, Oakton
YES! Libby
There have been many blacks who have said that when you act like a thug such as Brown did then one will pay the consequences. The best post I read was from an 83 year old black gentleman who said what did the people want the officer to do get the crap beat out of him!
I read where someone published the address of the reporter that published Wilson's address and now she's calling the cops wanting protection.....The dumb ass should have known better. What was she thinking anyway? She is now getting some of what she caused to happen to someone else.....Ain't karma wonderful in some cases? :biggrin:
Quote from: libby on November 29, 2014, 11:18:19 PM
That "fleeing person" was a 6 feet 4, almost 300 pound 'teenager' who had just robbed a convenience store, and was walking down the middle of the road with a friend when a policeman told him to move over. Instead of complying, the teenager attacked the policeman while he was still in his car.
I would guess, from that behavior, that he was high, either on alcohol or some kind of drug. Anyway, as my father would have said, all hell broke loose. And the media? :spooked:
~
"Now that the grand jury has done its job, isn't it time the media got the Ferguson storyline correct? Ever since the tragic death of Michael Brown, we've heard that an unarmed black teenager was gunned down by a white police officer."
"We now know that a more appropriate line would have been, "Violent robbery suspect killed in attack on police officer." But the media invested early in the "unarmed teenager" angle and kept repeating it.
"Mr. Brown did not deserve to lose his life over a box of cigars. But he should not have assaulted a store employee or attacked a police officer who confronted him, as are alleged. The only person who put Mtr. Brown in the position in which a police officer would find it necessary to shoot him was Mr. Brown himself.
"Having done so much to bring about the violence, it is probably too late for the major media to undo the damage done. But isn't it time to get the story right?" -- John Vencius, Oakton
YES! Libby
Not complying means that you have the right to kill the boy. Give me a break. :rant:
The right to kill came into play when this so-called perfect Angel that some seem to think that he was tried to reach for the officer's weapon and was trying to beat the shit out of the officer. What did you want the officer to do, say thank you, may I have another? Afterall, we are talking about kid who had robbed a store, assaulted the store owner and was high.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 11:43:19 AM
The right to kill came into play when this so-called perfect Angel that some seem to think that he was tried to reach for the officer's weapon and was trying to beat the shit out of the officer. What did you want the officer to do, say thank you, may I have another? Afterall, we are talking about kid who had robbed a store, assaulted the store owner and was high.
Just how do you know he went for the damn cop's weapon. The gun wasn't checked for the boys DNA. If he had grabbed it there would be DNA on it. Why don't you think, use you brain once in awhile. :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Troll on November 30, 2014, 11:35:33 AM
Not complying means that you have the right to kill the boy. Give me a break. :rant:
OK. Tell me this: If you were in that policeman's shoes, in your car, looking up at an angry 6'4" 300 pound young male of any skin color -- who had just refused to move out of the middle of the road -- what would you do?
Quote from: The Troll on November 30, 2014, 11:51:14 AM
Just how do you know he went for the damn cop's weapon. The gun wasn't checked for the boys DNA. If he had grabbed it there would be DNA on it. Why don't you think, use you brain once in awhile. :rolleyes:
I didn't say that he touched the weapon, now did I but that he was trying? Why don't you trying reading what I posted. By the way, no one knows if DNA was on stuff or not and to have DNA last it takes longer than a few seconds for contact. There was a scuffle and who is to say this punk didn't have gloves on.
Quote from: libby on November 30, 2014, 12:11:21 PM
OK. Tell me this: If you were in that policeman's shoes, in your car, looking up at an angry 6'4" 300 pound young male of any skin color -- who had just refused to move out of the middle of the road -- what would you do?
Plus trying to beat the shit out of someone
Quote from: me on November 25, 2014, 07:15:49 PM
The shooting would have never happened if Brown hadn't robbed that store and had the law called on him. He was in the wrong period. He made a poor choice and it cost him his life. Yes, it is unfortunate that a life was lost but everyone needs to quit making this a black and white thing because it happens to whites too. It is a state issue to deal with not a federal issue any way you look at it and they need to stay the hell out of it. It is costing that town and state a lot of money because it was made public and caused businesses to be burned, looted, and vandalized. How many people are not going to have a paycheck now because of all of this? His, Brown's, behavior cannot be excused just because he's black and that seems to be what is happening because they, the powers that be whether it be the administration or Sharpton and the Panthers, want to create unrest by making it a black on white thing and drawing the rest of the country into it.
1. The incident at the store had nothing to do with the incident in the street.
2. Being 'in the wrong' doesn't demand the death penalty.
3. The riots are a complete other issue.
4. No one's 'excused' Brown's behavior, just pointing out it wasn't deserving of the death penalty.
5. It is racist. It's the institutionalized racism inherent in so many of law enforcement's dealings with minorities - especially blacks.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 07:23:41 PM
I agree 100% of everything you just said.
Then you're as brain dead as she is. See my reply to her, take it also as to you.
Quote from: me on November 25, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Were you there? You didn't listen very well last night did you?
Apparently you haven't listened at all.
The altercation had to do with the incident in the street (regardless it wouldn't make any difference to the fact there was no cause to use deadly force).
Had officer Wilson simply ignored the jaywalking as he should have, the confrontation would not have happened. But no!...Wilson just had to show that black kid that both his dick and his gun were bigger and that the black kid was a nobody to be pushed around by white authority.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 25, 2014, 09:19:24 PM
unbelievable
This is why we have riots. People with this mentality!
One of the reasons we have riots is because blacks, in particular, are sick of being treated as second class citizens after close to 400 years.
Quote from: Locutus on November 25, 2014, 09:30:46 PM
Another link to the same: (78 separate items and links to documentation)
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/25/366507379/ferguson-docs-how-the-grand-jury-reached-a-decision#docs
Here's another one.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1370766/interview-po-darren-wilson.txt
If you read closely, this was a second interview with a detective, Wilson, and his attorney. There is obviously a previous interview which may or may not have included his attorney.
There should also have been an immediate investigation and interview at the scene.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 26, 2014, 11:46:24 AM
No, a grand jury listens to evidence and decides if there is enough evidence for a trial. I was wrong about the black-white ratio of people on there but there was not enough evidence for a trial. I can tell that you have no clue how the legal system works but that is not surprising.
For an indictment, not a 'trial'.
Grand Juries are usually used by prosecutors to achieve one of two results - to indict someone for which the prosecutor hasn't either the evidence or a case or, as in this instance, as a front for a possible indictment to disappear without political repercussions. The Grand Jury system is one of the most abused and misused arms of the legal system there is.
The Grand Jury concluded Wilson was covered under MO. exemptions of self defense - just like in the Trayvon Martin case.
That exemption is the point I, and others, have at the base of our arguments. It is now no longer common sense, but instead a 'Wild West' where you can use practically any 'fear' or 'attack' excuse to kill someone. We can't have that in a society based on the Rule of Law.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 27, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
Really, according to reports they cross examined several people and most of the time cross examination takes place in a trial not a grand jury.
You obviously don't know how a Grand Jury works either, so you, and Me, may as well stop harping about it.
Quote from: libby on November 29, 2014, 11:18:19 PM
That "fleeing person" was a 6 feet 4, almost 300 pound 'teenager' who had just robbed a convenience store, and was walking down the middle of the road with a friend when a policeman told him to move over. Instead of complying, the teenager attacked the policeman while he was still in his car.
I would guess, from that behavior, that he was high, either on alcohol or some kind of drug. Anyway, as my father would have said, all hell broke loose. And the media? :spooked:
~
"Now that the grand jury has done its job, isn't it time the media got the Ferguson storyline correct? Ever since the tragic death of Michael Brown, we've heard that an unarmed black teenager was gunned down by a white police officer."
"We now know that a more appropriate line would have been, "Violent robbery suspect killed in attack on police officer." But the media invested early in the "unarmed teenager" angle and kept repeating it.
"Mr. Brown did not deserve to lose his life over a box of cigars. But he should not have assaulted a store employee or attacked a police officer who confronted him, as are alleged. The only person who put Mtr. Brown in the position in which a police officer would find it necessary to shoot him was Mr. Brown himself.
"Having done so much to bring about the violence, it is probably too late for the major media to undo the damage done. But isn't it time to get the story right?" -- John Vencius, Oakton
YES! Libby
I'm extremely ashamed of you. I would have thought better of you.
Not ONE of the crimes of which Brown, in death, stands accused carries a sentence anywhere near capital punishment/death penalty.
That puzzy officer, Wilson, who shouldn't have ever been an officer, took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner while assuring 'dead men tell no tales' to contradict his version of the events.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 07:42:27 AM
There have been many blacks who have said that when you act like a thug such as Brown did then one will pay the consequences. The best post I read was from an 83 year old black gentleman who said what did the people want the officer to do get the crap beat out of him!
Link, please.
Do we really want LEO's on the job whose response to a situation - even one where they might take an arse whuppin'- to be deadly force, execution?
An officer - like Wilson - who is so inept, so lacking in street smarts and training, and so willing to escalate an unwarranted confrontation with an unarmed teen to the use of deadly force, has absolutely no business being on the force and out there in the street.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 11:43:19 AM
The right to kill came into play when this so-called perfect Angel that some seem to think that he was tried to reach for the officer's weapon and was trying to beat the shit out of the officer. What did you want the officer to do, say thank you, may I have another? Afterall, we are talking about kid who had robbed a store, assaulted the store owner and was high.
There is no 'right' to kill, there is a self defense exemption.
Who? Please point out ANYONE who has claimed Brown was a "perfect angel"?
We have no actual proof Brown tried to reach for the gun, and 'beating the shite' out of an officer - despite what so many of you authoritarians want to think - is NOT a capital offense.
BTW, it was shoplifting, not 'robbery', and the minor assault at the store was reciprocal.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
Link, please.
Do we really want LEO's on the job whose response to a situation - even one where they might take an arse whuppin'- to be deadly force, execution?
An officer - like Wilson - who is so inept, so lacking in street smarts and training, and so willing to escalate an unwarranted confrontation with an unarmed teen to the use of deadly force, has absolutely no business being on the force and out there in the street.
I will see if I can copy and paste the statement!
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 03:38:44 PM
There is no 'right' to kill, there is a self defense exemption.
Who? Please point out ANYONE who has claimed Brown was a "perfect angel"?
We have no actual proof Brown tried to reach for the gun, and 'beating the shite' out of an officer - despite what so many of you authoritarians want to think - is NOT a capital offense.
BTW, it was shoplifting, not 'robbery', and the minor assault at the store was reciprocal.
It becomes a robbery when in the course of a crime and assault occurs. It moves it from a simple shoplifting to a robbery
Quote from: libby on November 30, 2014, 12:11:21 PM
OK. Tell me this: If you were in that policeman's shoes, in your car, looking up at an angry 6'4" 300 pound young male of any skin color -- who had just refused to move out of the middle of the road -- what would you do?
1. You have it wrong. Wilson came to Brown to confront him, not the other way around. Wilson initiated the confrontation.
2. Wilson could have simply ignored it - there was really no need for the confrontation proving Wilson at minimum inept, and at best a bully with a badge and gun. I pointed out before Wilson just had to show that black kid that both his dick and his gun were bigger and that the black kid was a nobody to be pushed around by white authority.
3. For starters, since Wilson was determined not to ignore it - and there was really no reason to do anything but ignore it - then call backup and keep them in sight till it arrives. I suspect a reason Wilson didn't do that is because he would have be a laughing stock among his macho buddies and considered an idiot by his superiors - "you wanted back up for a jaywalking?!?"..."you made a scene over jaywalking?!?"
4. Once assaulted he could have: a) pulled away; b) tazed him; c) pepper sprayed him; and on and on and on, all sort of options with the proper street smarts and training, none of them requiring the use of deadly force.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 03:59:25 PM
I will see if I can copy and paste the statement!
Link to the statement in its proper context.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 12:40:19 PM
I didn't say that he touched the weapon, now did I but that he was trying? Why don't you trying reading what I posted. By the way, no one knows if DNA was on stuff or not and to have DNA last it takes longer than a few seconds for contact. There was a scuffle and who is to say this punk didn't have gloves on.
C'mon, seriously? You're just reaching here.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 12:41:45 PM
Plus trying to beat the shit out of someone
Neither Assault nor Battery are capital crimes.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 04:01:22 PM
It becomes a robbery when in the course of a crime and assault occurs. It moves it from a simple shoplifting to a robbery
Link to the MO. statute?
Also, IIRC, the attendant/owner/employee assaulted Brown first. Of course, I don't see that shoving match between the two being conflated in law to 'assault', though admittedly I've seen prosecutors try and squeeze everything into some sort of charge no matter how flimsy. It's a prosecution tactic. Throw everything possible at the defendant and you can get them to cop a plea which gets the prosecutor a win.
Check out a video by Charles R. Patrick on YouTube. He talks about it and also if you can find where a William g. Lillas talks about this. Mr. Lillas is an 83 yr. Old black gentleman who states that Brown was a hoodlum who had a criminal record a mile long and that if the idiots believe the national guard will play nice than they are stupid! He talks about how blacks blame the whites when they are too lazy to get off their asses and work but want to blame the whites for everything. Mr. Lillas states it is not the white person to blame for anything but blacks themselves are to blame and they let idiots like All Sharpton and Jesse Jackson inflame the hatred. There is more but for the most part he stated that had Brown just complied with an officer's request, he would not have been killed.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 04:11:04 PM
Link to the MO. statute?
Also, IIRC, the attendant/owner/employee assaulted Brown first. Of course, I don't see that shoving match between the two being conflated in law to 'assault'.
Robbery becomes this according to Missouri law when there is the use or threatens the immediatenuse of a dangerous instrument against any person or displays or threatens the use of what appears to be a deadly weapon or instrument. It also can be as simple as colliding into a store employee on the way out from shoplifting. I imagine that we probably will never know.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 04:05:20 PM
Neither Assault nor Battery are capital crimes.
Y assaults depending on the degree are felonies. In some states, a simple shoplifting can lead to a felony when in the course of the crime you assault someone. It can be as simple as colliding with an employee on the way out from shoplifting. I know in Ky. That there was a person who smacked an employee as he was headed out the store with a $25.00 item. That became a felony due to the assault and a simple shoplifting became a robbery. It is that way in a lot of states!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 04:13:34 PM
Check out a video by Charles R. Patrick on YouTube. He talks about it and also if you can find where a William g. Lillas talks about this. Mr. Lillas is an 83 yr. Old black gentleman who states that Brown was a hoodlum who had a criminal record a mile long and that if the idiots believe the national guard will play nice than they are stupid! He talks about how blacks blame the whites when they are too lazy to get off their asses and work but want to blame the whites for everything. Mr. Lillas states it is not the white person to blame for anything but blacks themselves are to blame and they let idiots like All Sharpton and Jesse Jackson inflame the hatred. There is more but for the most part he stated that had Brown just complied with an officer's request, he would not have been killed.
Patrick - like a certain minority of blacks - appears mainly to know what side his bread is buttered on - say things that appeal to whites, especially authoritarian and racist whites. That's not to say there's not any amount of truth to be found in what he says, just that the aforementioned whites conflate it to be more than what it is.
The William G. Lillas tale is a fraud. It's another of those BS e-mails so favored by RW nutters: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/blackvet.asp
By November 2014, it seems concerns about the anonymity of the e-mail hampered its spread, as a name became attached to the commentary: William G. Lillas. For months, the remarks circulated without attribution, and it's not clear how the name "William G. Lillas" adhered to it. It's possible the missive was reposted or e-mailed by a person of that name, creating the incorrect impression the reposter was the original author.
While the words are aimed at the presumed failings of black Americans, we can't find one forward or notable repost of the item that didn't come from a white person. Most likely, the e-mail forward was authored by a white person who wished to express unpopular racial prejudices and felt the image of an elderly (and wise) black gentleman with a proud history of military service was the most authoritative candidate to deliver his list of grievances with a number of racial issues and general events.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 04:20:28 PM
Robbery becomes this according to Missouri law when there is the use or threatens the immediatenuse of a dangerous instrument against any person or displays or threatens the use of what appears to be a deadly weapon or instrument. It also can be as simple as colliding into a store employee on the way out from shoplifting. I imagine that we probably will never know.
Link to MO. statute?
If what you say is fact, there wasn't a weapon (dangerous instrument) in use by either party, so in MO. it wouldn't rise to assault.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 04:01:52 PM
1. You have it wrong. Wilson came to Brown to confront him, not the other way around. Wilson initiated the confrontation.
2. Wilson could have simply ignored it - there was really no need for the confrontation proving Wilson at minimum inept, and at best a bully with a badge and gun. I pointed out before Wilson just had to show that black kid that both his dick and his gun were bigger and that the black kid was a nobody to be pushed around by white authority.
3. For starters, since Wilson was determined not to ignore it - and there was really no reason to do anything but ignore it - then call backup and keep them in sight till it arrives. I suspect a reason Wilson didn't do that is because he would have be a laughing stock among his macho buddies and considered an idiot by his superiors - "you wanted back up for a jaywalking?!?"..."you made a scene over jaywalking?!?"
4. Once assaulted he could have: a) pulled away; b) tazed him; c) pepper sprayed him; and on and on and on, all sort of options with the proper street smarts and training, none of them requiring the use of deadly force.
What does jaywalking have to do with anything? I've never once heard that even mentioned.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 03:38:44 PM
There is no 'right' to kill, there is a self defense exemption.
Who? Please point out ANYONE who has claimed Brown was a "perfect angel"?
We have no actual proof Brown tried to reach for the gun, and 'beating the shite' out of an officer - despite what so many of you authoritarians want to think - is NOT a capital offense.
BTW, it was shoplifting, not 'robbery', and the minor assault at the store was reciprocal.
What????? You mean the guy had no right to try to defend himself from Brown? That "minor assult" Brown committed against the owner/employee could have been fatal to a person his age from the stress alone.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 04:29:44 PM
Y assaults depending on the degree are felonies. In some states, a simple shoplifting can lead to a felony when in the course of the crime you assault someone. It can be as simple as colliding with an employee on the way out from shoplifting. I know in Ky. That there was a person who smacked an employee as he was headed out the store with a $25.00 item. That became a felony due to the assault and a simple shoplifting became a robbery. It is that way in a lot of states!
Of course they can be. There are misdemeanor and felony levels. Unless there is an applicable MO. statute which gives rise to a felony, what Brown did was shoplift.
The authoritarians and racists want to conflate this incident with big scary words like Assault and Robbery when it's a much smaller matter.
It's just like Wilson's confrontation with Brown over jaywalking. It's JAYWALKING for gawd's sake! - not a Federal offense punishable by death!
Quote from: me on November 30, 2014, 04:39:10 PM
What does jaywalking have to do with anything? I've never once heard that even mentioned. What????? You mean the guy had no right to try to defend himself from Brown? That "minor assult" Brown committed against the owner/employee could have been fatal to a person his age from the stress alone.
C'mon! You can't tell me you haven't heard anything about Brown walking in the street - jaywalking?
As I pointed out, IIRC, the owner/employee 'assaulted' Brown first.
Pulll-eeeze! It was basically a shoving match. Stop trying to conflate it to something big and scary that it wasn't.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 04:34:45 PM
Link to MO. statute?
If what you say is fact, there wasn't a weapon (dangerous instrument) in use by either party, so in MO. it wouldn't rise to assault.
I can't link on tablet but according to Mo. Law, the threat of force and then like I said even a shove of a store employee can be considered robbery. I am not trying to get out of linking the law but just can't on the tablet and hubby is using the computer to do some work. I don't really care what the skin color of anyone is but just had this kid complied with the law, he wouldn't have been killed.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 04:30:24 PM
Patrick - like a certain minority of blacks - appears mainly to know what side his bread is buttered on - say things that appeal to whites, especially authoritarian and racist whites. That's not to say there's not any amount of truth to be found in what he says, just that the aforementioned whites conflate it to be more than what it is.
The William G. Lillas tale is a fraud. It's another of those BS e-mails so favored by RW nutters: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/blackvet.asp
By November 2014, it seems concerns about the anonymity of the e-mail hampered its spread, as a name became attached to the commentary: William G. Lillas. For months, the remarks circulated without attribution, and it's not clear how the name "William G. Lillas" adhered to it. It's possible the missive was reposted or e-mailed by a person of that name, creating the incorrect impression the reposter was the original author.
While the words are aimed at the presumed failings of black Americans, we can't find one forward or notable repost of the item that didn't come from a white person. Most likely, the e-mail forward was authored by a white person who wished to express unpopular racial prejudices and felt the image of an elderly (and wise) black gentleman with a proud history of military service was the most authoritative candidate to deliver his list of grievances with a number of racial issues and general events.
I could not say whether what the young kid says in his YouTube video appeals to all whites but I do agree that a lot of blacks, whites and pink polka dotted want handouts! I don't care what color your skin is, religious beliefs if you have them or not and sexual persuasion but people need to quit looking for handout by those of us who work for what we have.
I live next door to a 80+ year old black lady. She is the best neighbor we have ever had. We talk a lot about civil rights, discrimination and other politics and current events. She can't stand Obama, feels he is leading the Democratic party to hell but also feels that way with the Republican party, I had to agree. I asked her shortly after all this happened in Ferguson her views and she stated if the kid had done what was asked, the outcome would not have been what happened. She also said blacks want to blame everyone but themselves for being in prison, in the hood as she stated or wanting that handout! She is very opinonated on her beliefs but she is a great lady. When I first made the mistake of saying African American, she said that she was just an American and a black American, said she hasn't been to Africa and had no intentions of going there! Lol
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 05:04:24 PM
I can't link on tablet but according to Mo. Law, the threat of force and then like I said even a shove of a store employee can be considered robbery. I am not trying to get out of linking the law but just can't on the tablet and hubby is using the computer to do some work. I don't really care what the skin color of anyone is but just had this kid complied with the law, he wouldn't have been killed.
The law isn't that Brown should have received the death penalty for what he did.
Why is it so hard for you authoritarians to understand that?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 05:08:01 PM
I could not say whether what the young kid says in his YouTube video appeals to all whites but I do agree that a lot of blacks, whites and pink polka dotted want handouts! I don't care what color your skin is, religious beliefs if you have them or not and sexual persuasion but people need to quit looking for handout by those of us who work for what we have.
You do understand that's a completely separate issue than the one we're discussing don't you?
If you want to discuss that issue, make a thread, I'll participate.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 05:14:35 PM
I live next door to a 80+ year old black lady. She is the best neighbor we have ever had. We talk a lot about civil rights, discrimination and other politics and current events. She can't stand Obama, feels he is leading the Democratic party to hell but also feels that way with the Republican party, I had to agree. I asked her shortly after all this happened in Ferguson her views and she stated if the kid had done what was asked, the outcome would not have been what happened. She also said blacks want to blame everyone but themselves for being in prison, in the hood as she stated or wanting that handout! She is very opinonated on her beliefs but she is a great lady. When I first made the mistake of saying African American, she said that she was just an American and a black American, said she hasn't been to Africa and had no intentions of going there! Lol
Just so you know, PL, I don't put much stock in anecdotal claims/evidence and such.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 05:35:20 PM
The law isn't that Brown should have received the death penalty for what he did.
Why is it so hard for you authoritarians to understand that?
I am by no way an authoritarian. Why is so hard for people to not comply with an officer's request.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 05:37:45 PM
You do understand that's a completely separate issue than the one we're discussing don't you?
If you want to discuss that issue, make a thread, I'll participate.
I would say it relates since some want to make this a race issue. How about the number of whites killed by people of other races and you don't see whites protesting about the out comes!
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 05:42:59 PM
Just so you know, PL, I don't put much stock in anecdotal claims/evidence and such.
Yes. I can tell when evidence is presented that you disagree with it. Do you disagree with laws made by people also.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 04:46:38 PM
C'mon! You can't tell me you haven't heard anything about Brown walking in the street - jaywalking?
As I pointed out, IIRC, the owner/employee 'assaulted' Brown first.
Pulll-eeeze! It was basically a shoving match. Stop trying to conflate it to something big and scary that it wasn't.
He was stealing from the man so the man. You are trying to make the victim out to be the bad guy for going after his merchandise. All I have heard was walking down the street which could mean on the sidewalk. A lot of people say walking down the street and don't mean the street proper. I have never heard anyone use the term jaywalking.
Well, hello Y. I have been hoping you'd join us again. Sorry I disappointed you, but don't intend to try to answer you point by point because I am absolutely no good at the quick retort -- unless I shoot to kill (metaphorically) -- so, glad you've joined us and hope we keep you entertained or irritated enough to make you want to stay. :smitten:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 05:37:45 PM
You do understand that's a completely separate issue than the one we're discussing don't you?
If you want to discuss that issue, make a thread, I'll participate.
It does relate because Brown was taking what wasn't his and felt he was entitled to it. No, that in itself doesn't deserve the death penalty but the fact he was lunging at the officer, bullet entry point in top of head exit point back of neck, is grounds for the officer to protect himself by using force, keep in mind the size difference between Brown and the officer.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:18:19 PM
I am by no way an authoritarian. Why is so hard for people to not comply with an officer's request.
1. I'm certain you don't see the irony in that or you wouldn't have posted it.
2. Officers rarely 'request' - and Wilson certainly didn't - they order. A 'request' may be refused.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:19:59 PM
I would say it relates since some want to make this a race issue. How about the number of whites killed by people of other races and you don't see whites protesting about the out comes!
And that's also another issue altogether.
Why do you insist on avoided the real issue of Ferguson?
Quote from: me on November 30, 2014, 06:25:57 PM
He was stealing from the man so the man. You are trying to make the victim out to be the bad guy for going after his merchandise. All I have heard was walking down the street which could mean on the sidewalk. A lot of people say walking down the street and don't mean the street proper. I have never heard anyone use the term jaywalking.
I am not sure what jaywalking is there. In Kentucky, it is cutting across the street and not by the light or cross-walk. It is still called jaywalking but not many of the officers that I know even write a ticket for it! Heck, some of them do it also!
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 06:38:42 PM
And that's also another issue altogether.
Why do you insist on avoided the real issue of Ferguson?
The real issue has been addressed. A thug regardless of skin color tried to get by with something and didn't. He refused to comply with a simple request. By the way, this thug kid had a record. What about his step-father saying to burn Ferguson down. He was inviting those to riot and probably should have been charged. I can understand they are upset, they lost a child but that doesn't give them the right to say burn the town down! How about the issue that the media released Wilson's address and what if he had been killed by a lynch mob. Would you say well, he got what he deserved or would you want those who did it brought to justice?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:21:13 PM
Yes. I can tell when evidence is presented that you disagree with it. Do you disagree with laws made by people also.
I tried to put it nicely, but it's like this: when people start pulling out anecdotal claims like "my neighbor is black" or "I have a black friend" etc., you can usually lay money that those claims aren't true. Those claims are typically a means to make one not appear racist and misappropriate some fraudulent authority to his/her position.
Ask anyone here, I'm ALL about evidence, but anecdotal claims AREN'T evidence.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 06:36:46 PM
1. I'm certain you don't see the irony in that or you wouldn't have posted it.
2. Officers rarely 'request' - and Wilson certainly didn't - they order. A 'request' may be refused.
Then I would say, you must not know !any officers. I know city, county and state officers and have seen them say that they are requesting that so and so do such and such. When the person fails to comply with the request than they order.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 06:45:50 PM
I tried to put it nicely, but it's like this: when people start pulling out anecdotal claims like "my neighbor is black" or "I have a black friend" etc., you can usually lay money that those claims aren't true. Those claims are typically a means to make one not appear racist and misappropriate some fraudulent authority to his/her position.
Ask anyone here, I'm ALL about evidence, but anecdotal claims AREN'T evidence.
Sorry. You feel that way but our neighbor is black and I have no reason to lie about that or about her.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 06:45:50 PM
I tried to put it nicely, but it's like this: when people start pulling out anecdotal claims like "my neighbor is black" or "I have a black friend" etc., you can usually lay money that those claims aren't true. Those claims are typically a means to make one not appear racist and misappropriate some fraudulent authority to his/her position.
Ask anyone here, I'm ALL about evidence, but anecdotal claims AREN'T evidence.
By the way, it is a little hard for me to be racist when I have a great niece who is mixed so the racist shit doesn't work with me.
Quote from: me on November 30, 2014, 06:25:57 PM
He was stealing from the man so the man. You are trying to make the victim out to be the bad guy for going after his merchandise. All I have heard was walking down the street which could mean on the sidewalk. A lot of people say walking down the street and don't mean the street proper. I have never heard anyone use the term jaywalking.
The owner/employee was at minimum imprudent. I'm certain any LEO etc. would have told that and to let the guy go and they would handle it/him.
You must not have been paying ANY attention at all. From the beginning it was stated that Wilson told Brown and his friend to get out of the street.
Good Grief, Charlie Brown!
Quote from: libby on November 30, 2014, 06:32:25 PM
Well, hello Y. I have been hoping you'd join us again. Sorry I disappointed you, but don't intend to try to answer you point by point because I am absolutely no good at the quick retort -- unless I shoot to kill (metaphorically) -- so, glad you've joined us and hope we keep you entertained or irritated enough to make you want to stay. :smitten:
Yer don't skeer me! Do it! :razz:
:biggrin:
Quote from: me on November 30, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
It does relate because Brown was taking what wasn't his and felt he was entitled to it. No, that in itself doesn't deserve the death penalty but the fact he was lunging at the officer, bullet entry point in top of head exit point back of neck, is grounds for the officer to protect himself by using force, keep in mind the size difference between Brown and the officer.
1. Do you always conflate things so? When you stole something, did you conflate that to some big societal issue? Sometimes a thing is simply what it is.
2. Not deadly force. Size doesn't matter with the proper intelligence and training.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:45:09 PM
The real issue has been addressed. A thug regardless of skin color tried to get by with something and didn't. He refused to comply with a simple request. By the way, this thug kid had a record. What about his step-father saying to burn Ferguson down. He was inviting those to riot and probably should have been charged. I can understand they are upset, they lost a child but that doesn't give them the right to say burn the town down! How about the issue that the media released Wilson's address and what if he had been killed by a lynch mob. Would you say well, he got what he deserved or would you want those who did it brought to justice?
Besides all the extraneous BS you're trying to drag into the conversation on one specific issue, that issue is the unnecessary confrontation and use of deadly force.
I know you don't really want to debate it because you're on the wrong side - the authoritarian side.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:47:28 PM
Then I would say, you must not know !any officers. I know city, county and state officers and have seen them say that they are requesting that so and so do such and such. When the person fails to comply with the request than they order.
1. That's another anecdotal claim by you...
...one I'll answer with another anecdotal claim of my own...
I'll wager I've known a LOT more officers than you have.
2. That's simply not true. Officer's don't 'request', they order. If they only 'requested', they'd be getting told to "go to hell" a LOT more than they do now. Besides, if they didn't give orders, no would impelled to follow their directives. Use some common sense here.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:08:52 PM
1. Do you always conflate things so? When you stole something, did you conflate that to some big societal issue? Sometimes a thing is simply what it is.
2. Not deadly force. Size doesn't matter with the proper intelligence and training.
Get real, the guy was charging him, he was pumped up on adrenalin, quite a bit larger than the cop, and could have taken him down easily no matter how much training he had. He knew he was caught red handed and did not want to go to jail so he was not about to stop and talk to the cop. Had he been innocent and complied with the cops request this would not have happened period.
No, I don't agree with the use of deadly force and I am not trying to spread any BS but the fact remains that had the kid complied he would still be alive. I am not so sure why that is hard for you to understand. Do you expect police officers to just allow the public in general to beat the shit out of them and they not be allowed to defend themselves. It is like I have heard people want to bash the police for doing a job but when that person needs help who is it that they call. Whatever the outcome, no one was going to be satisfied.
Considering that I worked closely with law officers and went on ride alongs as part of my job, I can just about guarantee you that I heard them request more times than order but I know you think that is an anecdote and not factual evidence.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:48:24 PM
Sorry. You feel that way but our neighbor is black and I have no reason to lie about that or about her.
You'd have no real reason to not invent such a claim, and as I've pointed out specific reasons to invent such a claim.
I truly don't care either way, but making anecdotal claims won't carry any weight - especially with me.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:24:18 PM
You'd have no real reason to not invent such a claim, and as I've pointed out specific reasons to invent such a claim.
I truly don't care either way, but making anecdotal claims won't carry any weight - especially with me.
I am sure you will say that my job and ride alongs with the police are anecdotal and not factual to what I witnessed and saw.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 06:49:59 PM
By the way, it is a little hard for me to be racist when I have a great niece who is mixed so the racist shit doesn't work with me.
Now see, that's just silly.
You make yet another anecdotal claim, and one that actually has absolutely no bearing on whether you may or may not be a racist.
You most certainly would not be precluded from being a racist simply because it might be possible that you could have either mixed or full minority relation.
Y, here's a question for you. How do you feel about his step-father making claims on media to burn Ferguson down after the outcome? Do you feel his stepfather should be charged with inciting a riot? I know that he and the mother were upset and with good reason but what do you think he shoushould have done.
Quote from: me on November 30, 2014, 07:20:42 PM
Get real, the guy was charging him, he was pumped up on adrenalin, quite a bit larger than the cop, and could have taken him down easily no matter how much training he had. He knew he was caught red handed and did not want to go to jail so he was not about to stop and talk to the cop. Had he been innocent and complied with the cops request this would not have happened period.
Get real. You don't even really know the chain of events, do you? Obviously not.
Well, I'm not compelled to explain them to you in detail, but expect to hear the sniggering from the other participants. :biggrin:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:24:18 PM
You'd have no real reason to not invent such a claim, and as I've pointed out specific reasons to invent such a claim.
I truly don't care either way, but making anecdotal claims won't carry any weight - especially with me.
I am sure you will say that my job and ride alongs with the police are anecdotal and not factual to what I witnessed and saw.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:28:40 PM
Now see, that's just silly.
You make yet another anecdotal claim, and one that actually has absolutely no bearing on whether you may or may not be a racist.
You most certainly would not be precluded from being a racist simply because it might be possible that you could have either mixed or full minority relation.
My own kids are of mixed heritage so believe me, people like to come up with the racist crap a lot.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:32:19 PM
Get real. You don't even really know the chain of events, do you? Obviously not.
Well, I'm not compelled to explain them to you in detail, but expect to hear the sniggering from the other participants. :biggrin:
I doubt that any of us will ever know the true story.
Have a good night all. Got to get the kiddos ready to go back to school tomorrow for 15 days.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
No, I don't agree with the use of deadly force and I am not trying to spread any BS but the fact remains that had the kid complied he would still be alive. I am not so sure why that is hard for you to understand. Do you expect police officers to just allow the public in general to beat the shit out of them and they not be allowed to defend themselves. It is like I have heard people want to bash the police for doing a job but when that person needs help who is it that they call. Whatever the outcome, no one was going to be satisfied.
And if Wilson:
1. Hadn't decided to push his authority over jaywalking
2. Hadn't decided to push his authority when Brown and friend blew Wilson off
3. Had called for back up and waited to push the confrontation when it arrived
4. Had pulled away when Brown was at the car door
5. Had simply tazed or pepper sprayed Brown
6. Had used his club on him
7. I can go on and on and on...
...and Brown would still be alive.
Brown was an unarmed and untrained assailant. There was NO reason for Wilson to escalate to deadly force.
Wilson didn't even really take an arse whipping. Have you seen the photos?
I don't really think you get it at all.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 07:23:59 PM
Considering that I worked closely with law officers and went on ride alongs as part of my job, I can just about guarantee you that I heard them request more times than order but I know you think that is an anecdote and not factual evidence.
It is another anecdotal claim, and 'request' is still not true.
Just like you haven't a clue as to what I know about the law, the legal system, judges, prosecutors, attorneys, or officers and how many of them I might know.
Next time an officer 'requests' you to do something, tell them no and just find out whether it's really a 'request' or an order.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 07:27:27 PM
I am sure you will say that my job and ride alongs with the police are anecdotal and not factual to what I witnessed and saw.
Then why did you ask? See my previous reply.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:44:30 PM
It is another anecdotal claim, and 'request' is still not true.
Just like you haven't a clue as to what I know about the law, the legal system, judges, prosecutors, attorneys, or officers and how many of them I might know.
Next time an officer 'requests' you to do something, tell them no and just find out whether it's really a 'request' or an order.
It is a request until one chooses to not comply then it becomes an order.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 07:30:23 PM
Y, here's a question for you. How do you feel about his step-father making claims on media to burn Ferguson down after the outcome? Do you feel his stepfather should be charged with inciting a riot? I know that he and the mother were upset and with good reason but what do you think he shoushould have done.
First one would have to hear that supposed statement in context.
Then there are an entire list of factors to be taken into consideration in order to make that charge.
You should really get off of that authoritarian kick and see the Brown incident in the broader context of the history of Ferguson, the litany of incidents like Brown that are committed yearly, and the history of blacks in our society...and then wonder why blacks sometimes erupt en masse as they do.
I don't think you have a clue.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 07:53:00 PM
It is a request until one chooses to not comply then it becomes an order.
It's NOT a request. It always has the full force of the law and legal system behind it.
It's not that hard to understand.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:59:45 PM
First one would have to hear that supposed statement in context.
Then there are an entire list of factors to be taken into consideration in order to make that charge.
You should really get off of that authoritarian kick and see the Brown incident in the broader context of the history of Ferguson, the litany of incidents like Brown committed yearly, and the history of blacks in our society...and then wonder why blacks sometimes erupt en masse as they do.
I don't think you have a clue.
His comment was made after the Grand Jury decision and his exact words were something like "burn this MF town down". I think if you ask some blacks they find what blacks do when they riot deplorable and gives blacks a bad name.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 07:59:45 PM
First one would have to hear that supposed statement in context.
Then there are an entire list of factors to be taken into consideration in order to make that charge.
You should really get off of that authoritarian kick and see the Brown incident in the broader context of the history of Ferguson, the litany of incidents like Brown that are committed yearly, and the history of blacks in our society...and then wonder why blacks sometimes erupt en masse as they do.
I don't think you have a clue.
By the way, what about the litany of incidents where people of other races murder a white but you don't see the whites rioting when the Grand Jury chooses to not prosecute!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:07:42 PM
His comment was made after the Grand Jury decision and his exact words were something like "burn this MF town down". I think if you ask some blacks they find what blacks do when they riot deplorable and gives blacks a bad name.
Do you know what? I suspect you're only interested in this issue because you think you have some traction there.
Actually, who cares if that bereaved man may have said something in his grief. Do you really think it's a crime? I sincerely doubt it.
I think whites like you who carry on about the rioting do so out of fear - a fear based both in racism and payback. You're scared that those riots might not stop at blacks tearing up their own neighborhood, but spread into a full scale national uprising into neighborhoods like yours. It isn't that white America doesn't deserve it. It is approximately 400 years and white America is STILL arguing about allowing minorities FULL participation in society.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:09:50 PM
By the way, what about the litany of incidents where people of other races murder a white but you don't see the whites rioting when the Grand Jury chooses to not prosecute!
Yeah, let us know when the Grand Jury declines to prosecute. :rolleyes:
You do know your statement is utterly ridiculous and belies your claimed legal knowledge, don't you?
First, when does a Grand Jury normally do that? The prosecutor normally brings the charges.
Secondly, our legal system, our jails and prisons are a testament that whites don't have anything to riot about when it comes to minorities murdering whites. Have you ever paid any attention to both the racial makeup of our incarcerated population and the statistical proportion of our incarcerated population compared to the rest of First World countries?
Thirdly, have you paid attention to the racial makeup of those doing the worst in our society?
Hell, Whitey's doin' pretty good all the way around!
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 08:26:50 PM
Do you know what? I suspect you're only interested in this issue because you think you have some traction there.
Actually, who cares if that bereaved man may have said something in his grief. Do you really think it's a crime? I sincerely doubt it.
I think whites like you who carry on about the rioting do so out of fear - a fear based both in racism and payback. You're scared that those riots might not stop at blacks tearing up their own neighborhood, but spread into a full scale national uprising into neighborhoods like yours. It isn't that white America doesn't deserve it. It is approximately 400 years and white America is STILL arguing about allowing minorities FULL participation in society.
I have no problems with blacks rioting for the right reasons. I don't live in an all white neighborhood and blacks rioted for the right reasons to get their rights to vote and be treated equally! By the way, I am sure that if the blacks did riot in our neighborhood that many whites would be along side with them but the fact is that many times when these riots take place that it is the locals who suffer. How about the blacks who protected a white business owners place of business from the riots in Ferguson. People come from out of town and out of state and start the rioting and the people living in one's town pay the consequences.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 08:39:12 PM
Yeah, let us know when the Grand Jury declines to prosecute. :rolleyes:
You do know your statement is utterly ridiculous and belies your claimed legal knowledge, don't you?
First, when does a Grand Jury normally do that? The prosecutor normally brings the charges.
Secondly, our legal system, our jails and prisons are a testament that whites don't have anything to riot about when it comes to minorities murdering whites. Have you ever paid any attention to both the racial makeup of our incarcerated population and the statistical proportion of our incarcerated population compared to the rest of First World countries?
Thirdly, have you paid attention to the racial makeup of those doing the worst in our society?
Hell, Whitey's doin' pretty good all the way around!
The Grand Jury decides if enough evidence is given to have a trial at least here in Kentucky. I do know that a huge proportion of those incarcerated are of the black population and young men. I am not saying that all have committed a crime after all, DNA is now being used to prove many who were innocent but found guilty by a jury be released. Thank goodness for that but that doesn't tarnish the fact that they were put in jail for something they shouldn't haven't been. It is a shame that many times it was guilty and not presumed innocent until they had a trial and decided that way.
Most Grand Jury meetings are done in secret, again. I can only say what happens in Kentucky because that is the way it works
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:45:39 PM
I have no problems with blacks rioting for the right reasons.
Yeah, of course you don't. :rolleyes:
It's just that an unwarranted confrontation initiated by a white policeman pushing his authority over an unarmed black teen where said white policeman chooses to take on the authority of judge, jury, and executioner - and that's not taking into consideration the history of racial issues in Ferguson - isn't the the 'right' reason, right?
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 08:52:09 PM
Yeah, of course you don't. :rolleyes:
It's just that an unwarranted confrontation initiated by a white policeman pushing his authority over an unarmed black teen where said white policeman chooses to take on the authority of judge, jury, and executioner - and that's not taking into consideration the history of racial issues in Ferguson - isn't the the 'right' reason, right?
What if it had been a black police officer shooting a black teen or a white? You do realize that has happened! Maybe more times than we hear about!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:50:54 PM
The Grand Jury decides if enough evidence is given to have a trial at least here in Kentucky. I do know that a huge proportion of those incarcerated are of the black population and young men. I am not saying that all have committed a crime after all, DNA is now being used to prove many who were innocent but found guilty by a jury be released. Thank goodness for that but that doesn't tarnish the fact that they were put in jail for something they shouldn't haven't been. It is a shame that many times it was guilty and not presumed innocent until they had a trial and decided that way.
Most Grand Jury meetings are done in secret, again. I can only say what happens in Kentucky because that is the way it works
Hey, do you have a law degree to to with that college degree. :haha: Why don't you give all of us a break. :haha: :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on November 30, 2014, 08:55:39 PM
Hey, do you have a law degree to to with that college degree. :haha: Why don't you give all of us a break. :haha: :haha:
No, had you been reading, you would have read where my job entailed me to work closely with law enforcement, and even lawyers and judges. I had to know the laws of Kentucky.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:50:54 PM
The Grand Jury decides if enough evidence is given to have a trial at least here in Kentucky.
In Kentucky, there is a Felony Probable Cause Hearing where the prosecutor presents his/her case to the hearing judge, and if the judge concurs, THEN the charges are referred to the Grand Jury.
The Defendant can waive the Probable Cause Hearing.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 08:52:09 PM
Yeah, of course you don't. :rolleyes:
It's just that an unwarranted confrontation initiated by a white policeman pushing his authority over an unarmed black teen where said white policeman chooses to take on the authority of judge, jury, and executioner - and that's not taking into consideration the history of racial issues in Ferguson - isn't the the 'right' reason, right?
Should the officer have just let him walk away with the stolen merchandise? Did he not have a right to ask, or even order, him to stop under the circumstances? Was Brown within his rights to charge at and fight the officer? Is it ok that those rioters burn, loot, and tear up properties of people who had nothing to do with the incident. Protesting is one thing but what is going on is totally wrong.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:45:39 PM
I have no problems with blacks rioting for the right reasons. I don't live in an all white neighborhood and blacks rioted for the right reasons to get their rights to vote and be treated equally! By the way, I am sure that if the blacks did riot in our neighborhood that many whites would be along side with them but the fact is that many times when these riots take place that it is the locals who suffer. How about the blacks who protected a white business owners place of business from the riots in Ferguson. People come from out of town and out of state and start the rioting and the people living in one's town pay the consequences.
I don't think "Y" understands that Purplelady. I believe he also thinks being on the side of the rioters would somehow exempt him from being a target at some point in time because he is "on their side".
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
What if it had been a black police officer shooting a black teen or a white? You do realize that has happened! Maybe more times than we hear about!
See, that's what you don't get, and it shows you are fixated on race.
If all the factors of the incident are the same, the race of either the victim or the officer is immaterial to the real issue at hand - the abuse of power/authority and deadly force.
Now that's not to overlook the institutionalized racism inherent with white authority dealing with a minority populace, but that's not the overriding issue here.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:02:35 PM
In Kentucky, there is a Felony Probable Cause Hearing where the prosecutor presents his/her case to the hearing judge, and if the judge concurs, THEN the charges are referred to the Grand Jury.
The Defendant can waive the Probable Cause Hearing.
Charges are normally done in District Court if felonies and then moved up to Circuit Court. A Grand Jury meets once a month to decide if charges should go to trial. Grand Juries hear are done, behind closed door and unless you are a part of the Grand Jury you aren't allowed to enter the Grand Jury room. They don't normally call it a felony probable cause hearing. I guess to the casual observer it is called that but it all starts in District Court first and then bound over to the Grand Jury.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:09:54 PM
See, that's what you don't get, and it shows you are fixated on race.
If all the factors of the incident are the same, the race of either the victim or the officer is immaterial to the real issue at hand - the abuse of power/authority and deadly force.
Now that's not to overlook the institutionalized racism inherent with white authority dealing with a minority populace, but that's not the overriding issue here.
No, not fixated on race just asking what if he had been a black officer, a Hispanic officer or any officer of another color. There are a lot of officers of another color here and Louisville has more black officers than white. I was asking what your thoughts would be if this had been an officer of another color and doing it to their own color.
Quote from: me on November 30, 2014, 09:06:08 PM
Should the officer have just let him walk away with the stolen merchandise? Did he not have a right to ask, or even order, him to stop under the circumstances? Was Brown within his rights to charge at and fight the officer?
We've already established that you really don't know anything about this incident, so you truly ought to stop digging and find out about it before you say anything else. ;)
1. That issue wasn't what initiated the confrontation.
2. When was the last time you ever heard of an officer that wasn't just pushing his authority make an issue and push a confrontation of jaywalking. Be truthful now.
3. Of course not, don't be ridiculous...that is of course whether Wilson actually pulled his gun far earlier in the confrontation than he has claimed - or even fired earlier than he claimed. Remember, Wilson made certain we don't have Brown's facts and perceptions.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:11:49 PM
Charges are normally done in District Court if felonies and then moved up to Circuit Court. A Grand Jury meets once a month to decide if charges should go to trial. Grand Juries hear are done, behind closed door and unless you are a part of the Grand Jury you aren't allowed to enter the Grand Jury room. They don't normally call it a felony probable cause hearing. I guess to the casual observer it is called that but it all starts in District Court first and then bound over to the Grand Jury.
I'll refer you here:
http://www.louisvilleprosecutor.com/legal_system.htm
That's directly from the Commonwealth Attorney's Office - which I paraphrased...maybe you can argue with that office about how it should work since you think you know more than that office does. :biggrin:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:18:28 PM
We've already established that you really don't know anything about this incident, so you truly ought to stop digging and find out about it before you say anything else. ;)
1. That issue wasn't what initiated the confrontation.
2. When was the last time you ever heard of an officer that wasn't just pushing his authority make an issue and push a confrontation of jaywalking. Be truthful now.
3. Of course not, don't be ridiculous...that is of course whether Wilson actually pulled his gun far earlier in the confrontation than he has claimed - or even fired earlier than he claimed. Remember, Wilson made certain we don't have Brown's facts and perceptions.
One thing is certain and that is we are never going to know what happened
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:14:12 PM
No, not fixated on race just asking what if he had been a black officer, a Hispanic officer or any officer of another color. There are a lot of officers of another color here and Louisville has more black officers than white. I was asking what your thoughts would be if this had been an officer of another color and doing it to their own color.
Asking that question points to you being fixated on race. As I pointed out the race of either party is immaterial to the issue - the issue of abuse of power/authority and deadly force.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:23:30 PM
I'll refer you here:
http://www.louisvilleprosecutor.com/legal_system.htm
That's directly from the Commonwealth Attorney's Office - which I paraphrased...maybe you can argue with that office about how it should work since you think you know more than that office does. :biggrin:
That is how it works in Louisville, even though Kentucky has a uniform statute of law, every county is different in the way it does things. I know you won't believe me but what happens in Louisville is totally different than what happens in say Bowling Green. They all follow the law but just do it different in each county. I am betting it is the same in every state.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
Asking that question points to you being fixated on race. As I pointed out the race of either party is immaterial to the issue - the issue of abuse of power/authority and deadly force.
Sorry. You think that but wondering if it had been a black officer who did this to Brown would you think the same way? If been a white kid by a white officer, would you think the same thing?
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:23:30 PM
I'll refer you here:
http://www.louisvilleprosecutor.com/legal_system.htm
That's directly from the Commonwealth Attorney's Office - which I paraphrased...maybe you can argue with that office about how it should work since you think you know more than that office does. :biggrin:
By the way, most counties in Kentucky do not have a felony probable cause hearing like Louisville. They are an unusual court system there and I wouldn't know how many courts they do have but I do know they have several. Family, juvenile, drug court, district, circuit and a veteran's drug court system because veteran's were being treated very unfairly.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:24:21 PM
One thing is certain and that is we are never going to know what happened
That's not quite true.
We know:
1. Wilson initiated the confrontation.
2. There was no overarching reason to either initiate or pursue that confrontation.
3. Brown was unarmed...
...and so on.
We know several things - which cumulatively make it clear the position I've taken.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:34:23 PM
That's not quite true.
We know:
1. Wilson initiated the confrontation.
2. There was no overarching reason to either initiate or pursue that confrontation.
3. Brown was unarmed...
...and so on.
We know several things - which cumulatively make it clear the position I've taken.
I meant about the Grand Jury hearings
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:29:38 PM
Sorry. You think that but wondering if it had been a black officer who did this to Brown would you think the same way? If been a white kid by a white officer, would you think the same thing?
You truly are fixated on race to the exclusion of even reading what I'd written.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:45:04 PM
You truly are fixated on race to the exclusion of even reading what I'd written.
Nope, you are twisting it that way. You are not answering the questions I have asked on what if it had been an officer of another color doing it to their own color or a white officer doing it to a white kid? Would that had been any different to what happened?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:27:55 PM
That is how it works in Louisville, even though Kentucky has a uniform statute of law, every county is different in the way it does things. I know you won't believe me but what happens in Louisville is totally different than what happens in say Bowling Green. They all follow the law but just do it different in each county. I am betting it is the same in every state.
I'll tell you what. The easiest way to settle it is to post links from those prosecuting attorneys/courts proving what you claim.
I've done so...and so far, you're wrong.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:49:17 PM
Nope, you are twisting it that way. You are not answering the questions I have asked on what if it had been an officer of another color doing it to their own color or a white officer doing it to a white kid? Would that had been any different to what happened?
LOL! Now you just proved exactly what I stated: You truly are fixated on race to the exclusion of even reading what I'd written.
Now go back and bother to read what I've written. I've answered that point more than once.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:49:28 PM
I'll tell you what. The easiest way to settle it is to post links from those prosecuting attorneys/courts proving what you claim.
I've done so...and so far, you're wrong.
I am not going to post links when most courts in Kentucky don't even have links. Geez, there are 121 counties in Ky and believe me , most of the do not do it the way Louisville does it. I hate to tell you but no two counties in Ky do the law the exact same way. It is like I said it is probably that way in most states. The county I live in does not do the felony probable cause hearing. They never have. The charges start at District, waive to Circuit and a Grand Jury meets to see if there is enough evidence to have a trial at the Circuit Court level. The on!y thing proved is the way Louisville does it.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
LOL! Now you just proved exactly what I stated: You truly are fixated on race to the exclusion of even reading what I'd written.
Now go back and bother to read what I've written. I've answered that point more than once.
No you haven't answered it at all. You are the one twisting it all about race
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 09:49:28 PM
I'll tell you what. The easiest way to settle it is to post links from those prosecuting attorneys/courts proving what you claim.
I've done so...and so far, you're wrong.
By the way, smaller counties are made up of two- three sometimes four counties. They do well to even have internet much less links to a court system. Lol, some of them only meet in Circuit Court maybe once every 6 months and that has yo be a major crime.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:55:34 PM
I am not going to post links when most courts in Kentucky don't even have links. Geez, there are 121 counties in Ky and believe me , most of the do not do it the way Louisville does it. I hate to tell you but no two counties in Ky do the law the exact same way. It is like I said it is probably that way in most states. The county I live in does not do the felony probable cause hearing. They never have. The charges start at District, waive to Circuit and a Grand Jury meets to see if there is enough evidence to have a trial at the Circuit Court level. The on!y thing proved is the way Louisville does it.
So what you're really saying is that you can't prove anything you claim.
Don't worry, I won't cry, I never thought you could.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:57:39 PM
No you haven't answered it at all. You are the one twisting it all about race
LOL! That's twice! :wink:
Or you could go back and read and stop making a fool of yourself.
That snickering in the background will be others laughing at you...but don't say I didn't warn you.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:01:56 PM
So what you're really saying is that you can't prove anything you claim.
Don't worry, I won't cry, I never thought you could.
I can't when most counties don't have links. It is like I said Louisville is a unique court system. I told you how it is done here and it is not done like Louisville. I can venture that Louisville isn't done like Lexington's, Owensboro or Todd County. Each county is different.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:02:47 PM
LOL! That's twice! :wink:
Or you could go back and read and stop making a fool of yourself.
That snickering in the background will be others laughing at you...but don't say I didn't warn you.
Whatever, you are the one who hasn't answered the question had this been an officer of the same race, would you feel the same way?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
By the way, smaller counties are made up of two- three sometimes four counties.
Did you really mean to say that?
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
I can't when most counties don't have links. It is like I said Louisville is a unique court system. I told you how it is done here and it is not done like Louisville. I can venture that Louisville isn't done like Lexington's, Owensboro or Todd County. Each county is different.
Oh good grief! So you're saying no other county but Jefferson has a site for the DA/Courts?
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:08:21 PM
Did you really mean to say that?
The courts are made up of two, three or four counties. My bad, especially the smaller counties.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 10:06:58 PM
Whatever, you are the one who hasn't answered the question had this been an officer of the same race, would you feel the same way?
That's three! :wink:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:11:23 PM
Oh good grief! So you're saying no other county but Jefferson has a site for the DA/Courts?
That is what I am saying. Smaller counties don't have links and even some bigger ones don't. Like I said 121 counties in Kentucky and each county does things a little differently. It is that way in most states.
I just tried to google several of the larger counties and all it did was give me the address of where the courthouse was.
Like I said Louisville is really a different court system compared to others.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 10:13:39 PM
That is what I am saying. Smaller counties don't have links and even some bigger ones don't. Like I said 121 counties in Kentucky and each county does things a little differently. It is that way in most states.
I just tried to google several of the larger counties and all it did was give me the address of where the courthouse was.
Like I said Louisville is really a different court system compared to others.
Well, so much for that bunch of your blah, blah, blah...
Fayette County (Lexington):
http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/
Here's the diagram which is the same procedure as Jefferson County (Louisville)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-wWxrTPH0CwbVpIUWxZVGFYdk0/edit?pli=1
I see no reason to waste any more of my time on any of your claims. From now on you're considered to be both unbelievable and to not know what you're talking about. :wink:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:28:58 PM
Well, so much for that bunch of your blah, blah, blah...
Fayette County (Lexington):
http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/
Here's the diagram which is the same procedure as Jefferson County (Louisville)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-wWxrTPH0CwbVpIUWxZVGFYdk0/edit?pli=1
I see no reason to waste any more of my time on any of your claims. From now on you're considered to be both unbelievable and to not know what you're talking about. :wink:
that is also a big county also but I bet other counties you won't find a link too. I also said the county that I live in doesn't do the felony probable hearing. They do District Court, bound it to circuit and the Grand jury meets to decide. Believe whatever you want, but each county is different in Kentucky and no two counties do things the same way.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:28:58 PM
Well, so much for that bunch of your blah, blah, blah...
Fayette County (Lexington):
http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/
Here's the diagram which is the same procedure as Jefferson County (Louisville)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-wWxrTPH0CwbVpIUWxZVGFYdk0/edit?pli=1
I see no reason to waste any more of my time on any of your claims. From now on you're considered to be both unbelievable and to not know what you're talking about. :wink:
I could also state that I find you to be unbelievable and not know what you are talking about also but I haven't. I worked in and around the court system here so I do know what I am talking about when I say every county is different but I forget that is not evidence for you. You probably also don't believe that 2-4 counties can make up one court system
I said:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:11:23 PM
So you're saying no other county but Jefferson has a site for the DA/Courts?
You said:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 10:13:39 PM
That is what I am saying.
After I posted yet another link showing another county had a site, AND felony court procedure the SAME as my first county's site proving you have been blabbering out of your wazoo...
You reply:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 10:33:24 PM
Believe whatever you want, but each county is different in Kentucky and no two counties do things the same way.
That ^^^ just AFTER I'd proved your claim pure BS.
Have you no shame? :biggrin:
Are you Me's and Hank's sister? :rotfl:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:42:41 PM
I said:
You said:
After I posted yet another link showing another county had a site, AND felony court procedure the SAME as my first county's site proving you have been blabbering out of your wazoo...
You reply:
That ^^^ just AFTER I'd proved your claim pure BS.
Have you no shame? :biggrin:
Are you Me's and Hank's sister? :rotfl:
no, I am just telling you that not all counties in Kentucky do it the same. I bet if you were to even look up different states and counties you would find no two in the same state are the same. I know the county I work did not and does not do felony probable cause hearings. You seem to not understand that no two counties are the same and do not follow that type of procedure just because Lexington and Lousivlle do. Google other states and counties and see if they do it the same or different. I have said I know how it works for my county.
LOL!
I think you're one of those yahoos who think if you get in the last word you think you've won the debate - regardless of what has really transpired.
Don't mistake a foolish persistence for anything else but persistence in being a fool. :wink:
Do you want me to allow you the last word? :biggrin:
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:54:41 PM
LOL!
I think you're one of those yahoos who think if you get in the last word you think you've won the debate - regardless of what has really transpired.
Don't mistake a foolish persistence for anything else but persistence in being a fool. :wink:
Do you want me to allow you the last word? :biggrin:
no, I know a lot of times one doesn't win a debate at all. like I said, no two counties do things the same way in Kentucky. I bet it is that way in a lot of states and that no two counties are the same. I know how things were done here in this county and they were like I stated.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on November 30, 2014, 10:57:52 PM
no, I know a lot of times one doesn't win a debate at all. like I said, no two counties do things the same way in Kentucky. I bet it is that way in a lot of states and that no two counties are the same. I know how things were done here in this county and they were like I stated.
I can't find it now but didn't you even say you could probably pull up the larger counties but not the smaller ones or the on you lived in? If I remember you saying that correctly then "Y" is accusing you of something you did not say but instead twisting things to come out the way he wants it to trying to show you don't know what you're talking about.
Yes, me. I did say some of the larger counties might have links but smaller ones wouldn't. Some of the smaller counties do well to have internet and you may have several small counties join together to make up a court system. Larger counties are more unique in the way they do the court cases. Now a felony in one county in Ky. is always a felony in another county in Ky. but it doesn't mean that a county has the same court structure as Louisville or a larger county. Go to any other state and what may be a felony in one county in another state, might not be in another county in the same state.
Quote from: Y on November 30, 2014, 10:42:41 PM
I said:
You said:
After I posted yet another link showing another county had a site, AND felony court procedure the SAME as my first county's site proving you have been blabbering out of your wazoo...
You reply:
That ^^^ just AFTER I'd proved your claim pure BS.
Have you no shame? :biggrin:
Are you Me's and Hank's sister? :rotfl:
"Y", just keep it up and she will have another person she will hate here on the Zone. :thumbsup: :haha: :haha: :choo: :choo:
Quote from: The Troll on December 01, 2014, 10:39:47 AM
"Y", just keep it up and she will have another person she will hate here on the Zone. :thumbsup: :haha: :haha: :choo: :choo:
I don't hate Y. He just doesn't understand that every county does things differently in court cases. I am betting that no two counties are alike in Indiana also.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 01, 2014, 12:29:31 PM
I don't hate Y. He just doesn't understand that every county does things differently in court cases. I am betting that no two counties are alike in Indiana also.
I think you will find that Indiana has a uniform state and county laws. Maybe some different smoking laws. :salute:
Quote from: The Troll on December 01, 2014, 02:51:31 PM
I think you will find that Indiana has a uniform state and county laws. Maybe some different smoking laws. :salute:
That is good but not all states do and some laws vary even in the counties.
This pretty much says it all.
Quote of John T. Reed:
The blacks and liberals who would not be satisfied until Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson got a lethal injection complain that a grand jury was used instead of just indicting him and going to jury trial—as with George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.
.
For one thing, how did skipping the grand jury work out for you in the Martin case? If whites said potayto, those people would say potahto. They are utterly unsatisfiable and opposed to everything white because whites support it and no other reason.
.
But here's another. The reason the blacks and liberals wanted a regular trial instead of a grand jury is so they could intimidate witnesses and jurors.
.
Grand juries are from English law and go back to the year 1166. They have investigative powers—subpoena power—and they operate in secret in the sense that the identities of the grand jurors are not disclosed nor are the identities of the witnesses. Indeed, disclosing the testimony—with names redacted—in the Wilson case was unusual. Normally, nothing is disclosed but the whether-to-indict decision.
.
Seven blacks who were eyewitnesses testified that Darren Wilson's version of events was accurate. First, I give them great credit for that. They had no incentive to do so other than their conscience. They could have easily not come forward, claimed they did not remember, or claimed to have been looking in another direction. But at least in the grand jury, they had anonymity.
.
Same thing with the grand jurors themselves. They had been picked and empaneled before the shooting. Had the district attorney gone to a regular trial as in the whatever-the-loudest-mob-wants decision made by the state attorney general i the Florida Trayvon Martin case, all the identities of the witnesses and jurors would have been public and both groups would have been under tremendous pressure from blacks and liberals to get the white guy no matter the evidence. Or, if the defendant was a black guy, like OJ, find him not guilty no matter the evidence.
.
I also admire the moral courage of the grand jurors in not caving to the mob. In theory, the identities of the grand jurors and grand jury witnesses are secret, but we all know how such things often get leaked by insiders trying to advance their own agenda.
.
I am a big advocate of replacing our elected Congress with one that operates like a grand jury—secret members who vote on secret ballots and serve 6 month terms. They are representative of the people not because they got elected but because they were selected at random from among the American citizens of each state and Congressional district. See my web article about it. http://www.johntreed.com/phonebook.html
.
I want to also commend some of the residents of Ferguson who tried to stop looters and vandals. One group blocked the entrance of a cosmetics store that was being looted. The looters went around back and set it on fire. Another black woman put out the fires in the Ferguson Food and Liquor store with a gallon of milk. That is the same convenience store that Michael Brown robbed just before he was shot.
.
The good people need to either run the bad people out, which I suspect they will not, or leave the town for a better place. I suspect most will do neither in which case they deserve what they get. I expect the racism of many white haters in Ferguson will now drive that town into total bankrupt ghettohood as the good blacks and the whites engage in the legal racial discrimination of leaving, and others who might have moved into that town, will move somewhere else instead, a la Detroit and many other formerly decent American cities.
.
I have been a boss in many situations—coach, platoon leader and company commander in the Army, landlord, business manager, parent. You have three kinds of people: the good, the bad, and those who will go either way according to which side wins, the good or the bad.
.
The leader's job is to make sure the bad lose the fight for dominance. When they do, they will leave and the either-way group will behave. The rule is, the screws must be tightened and tightened again on the bad guys until they reform or leave. The punishment of the looters and arsonists and rock throwers need to be so harsh that they regret doing that and that those who observed then and were considering joining them are very glad they did not. The test of what is too harsh ad too lenient is simply recidivism. If the punishment did not cause the behavior to stop, it was not harsh enough. Does anyone believe that the looters, arsonists and rock throwers in Ferguson, or around the country copy cats, regret what they did or that any observers are glad they did not participate in the misbehavior?
.
But if the leader lets the bad guys win, the good people will leave and the either-way people will turn bad. And no new good people will move in.
.
I see ZERO evidence that the politician leaders in Ferguson, Missouri, or the U.S. have even the slightest intention of punishing the bad people in Ferguson. Looters and white-people haters are a significant part of the Democrats' base. They will not prosecute them under any circumstances.
.
Obvious bad guys like Brown's accomplice Dorian Johnson and the identifiable looters and arsonists will be let off. Race hustlers including those in the MO state legislature will be reelected by the white haters (including white liberals) in their districts. The only continuing investigation is to try to get Darren Wilson on some federal civil rights charge or civil law suit.
.
The bad guys won in Ferguson. They won in August and again in November. They won on Black Friday around the U.S. So any good guys who remain in Ferguson—on the police force or just as residents—are engaging in terminally stupid behavior. No good deed goes unpunished in such places. No white person or black person who "acts white" will be allowed life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness in such a place.
Mere propaganda from the RW noize machine.
Quote from: The Troll on December 01, 2014, 02:51:31 PM
I think you will find that Indiana has a uniform state and county laws. Maybe some different smoking laws. :salute:
PL's full of it. I don't mind. In fact, it's good to know. I enjoy testing out discussion opponents to discover their mettle.
Regardless of anything the RW noize machine has to say, New York had absolutely nothing to do with Ferguson.
Quote from: Y on December 24, 2014, 02:56:39 PM
Regardless of anything the RW noize machine has to say, New York had absolutely nothing to do with Ferguson.
It's not only Ferguson that was a police state. It's the whole country that has become a police state and :police: cops are killing :rifle: :cowboy: too many of us, the citizens. :yes: :rant:
Quote from: The Troll on December 26, 2014, 03:27:29 PM
It's not only Ferguson that was a police state. It's the whole country that has become a police state and :police: cops are killing :rifle: :cowboy: too many of us, the citizens. :yes: :rant:
Tell me Troll, how many have been killed by police? I think you are speaking through your ass like normal.
Quote from: Y on December 24, 2014, 02:53:34 PM
PL's full of it. I don't mind. In fact, it's good to know. I enjoy testing out discussion opponents to discover their mettle.
Really, because I can tell you that in some states the laws do vary from county to county even if the state claims to have a uniform code of law. I guess because I know some counties in Kentucky don't do like some of the bigger counties that you think I am lying. It ilike I said in smaller counties the grand jury may only meet once a month or even less depending on whether they have had a huge felony crime happen.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 26, 2014, 05:56:51 PM
Really, because I can tell you that in some states the laws do vary from county to county even if the state claims to have a uniform code of law. I guess because I know some counties in Kentucky don't do like some of the bigger counties that you think I am lying. It ilike I said in smaller counties the grand jury may only meet once a month or even less depending on whether they have had a huge felony crime happen.
Tell me, do they still clean out the Saloon to have court in old Kentuck. :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on December 26, 2014, 08:50:05 PM
Tell me, do they still clean out the Saloon to have court in old Kentuck. :biggrin:
Ignorant one, they have courthouses or most counties have a judicial centers but smaller counties just don't have grand jury meetings every month. They often go several months before they even have grand jury meetings to see if there is enough to have a trial.
Did you cheer when the psycho killed the 2 police officer in NewYork?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 26, 2014, 03:33:01 PM
Tell me Troll, how many have been killed by police? I think you are speaking through your ass like normal.
You wouldn't understand it if I told you. You're playing so far out in right field you're standing outside of the park. :haha: :jester:
You are clueless
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 26, 2014, 09:19:50 PM
You are clueless
The police aren't required to keep count of the number of people they kill or die while in the police hands. BrightBart. :doh:
Just you watch there will be a law coming up that will take care of that problem. They have killed hundreds in the past 40 years and it will all come out in the future, Bunky Boy.
And ya'll call the Koch Bro's bad????
George Soros funds Ferguson protests, hopes to spur civil action
Liberal billionaire gave at least $33 million in one year to groups that emboldened activists
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/#ixzz3Ozadv3Zj
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
By Kelly Riddell - The Washington Times - Wednesday, January 14, 2015
There's a solitary man at the financial center of the Ferguson protest movement. No, it's not victim Michael Brown or Officer Darren Wilson. It's not even the Rev. Al Sharpton, despite his ubiquitous campaign on TV and the streets.
Rather, it's liberal billionaire George Soros, who has built a business empire that dominates across the ocean in Europe while forging a political machine powered by nonprofit foundations that impacts American politics and policy, not unlike what he did with MoveOn.org.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/#ixzz3OzaBu6XC
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
Soros should be the one to PAY for ALL the f'ing damage that has been done down there. He should have his ass sued so badly, he shouldn't have a penny to wipe Sharpton's butt with.
Quote from: me on January 16, 2015, 08:55:16 AM
And ya'll call the Koch Bro's bad????
George Soros funds Ferguson protests, hopes to spur civil action
Liberal billionaire gave at least $33 million in one year to groups that emboldened activists
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/#ixzz3Ozadv3Zj
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
By Kelly Riddell - The Washington Times - Wednesday, January 14, 2015
There's a solitary man at the financial center of the Ferguson protest movement. No, it's not victim Michael Brown or Officer Darren Wilson. It's not even the Rev. Al Sharpton, despite his ubiquitous campaign on TV and the streets.
Rather, it's liberal billionaire George Soros, who has built a business empire that dominates across the ocean in Europe while forging a political machine powered by nonprofit foundations that impacts American politics and policy, not unlike what he did with MoveOn.org.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/#ixzz3OzaBu6XC
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
Quote from: Henry Hawk on January 16, 2015, 10:09:00 AM
Soros should be the one to PAY for ALL the f'ing damage that has been done down there. He should have his ass sued so badly, he shouldn't have a penny to wipe Sharpton's butt with.
Ya got that right. I wondered who was funding Sharpton and now we know. I did kind of suspicion it though. :wink:
Quote from: me on January 16, 2015, 08:55:16 AM
George Soros funds Ferguson protests, hopes to spur civil action
Uh, that headline is more than just a little misleading; isn't it?
And by the way...suspicion is not a verb.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 16, 2015, 01:47:19 PM
Uh, that headline is more than just a little misleading; isn't it?
And by the way...suspicion is not a verb.
Quote from: me on January 16, 2015, 12:26:42 PM
Ya got that right. I wondered who was funding Sharpton and now we know. I did kind of suspect it though. :wink:
And just why is it misleading?
Quote from: me on January 16, 2015, 05:04:24 PM
And just why is it misleading?
Because it implies that Soros directly paid people to riot. ergo, is a lie.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 18, 2015, 02:53:12 PM
Because it implies that Soros directly paid people to riot. ergo, is a lie.
Read it again Ex. He gave it to groups who then paid the activists or used it as a means to embolden them to riot. I imagine he paid Sharpton personally in an untraceable manner, like cash.
Liberal billionaire gave at least $33 million in one year to groups that emboldened activists
The headline says, "George Soros funds Ferguson protests." That is not what happened.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 18, 2015, 03:49:39 PM
The headline says, "George Soros funds Ferguson protests." That is not what happened.
Oh really? Why do you figure he gave the money to those organizations? If he furnished the money he helped pay for it period.
Quote from: me on January 18, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
Oh really? Why do you figure he gave the money to those organizations? If he furnished the money he helped pay for it period.
Here is one example of the many ways I am better than you...I value the truth and you propagate lies.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 18, 2015, 03:49:39 PM
The headline says, "George Soros funds Ferguson protests." That is not what happened.
Essentially, yes he did. Not directly. The headline is like other f'd up media, and LOVES to focus attention on their agenda. He did NOT personally set up and organized these protests, but he DID sponsor groups, who are designed and are emboldened to be activists at such events that took place in Ferguson. That is the singular purpose of many of the groups he empowers with his funds, to be activists. Millennial Activists United is one in-particular, that was funded by Soros, that played a large role in the protests in Ferguson. There are several, Soros funded groups that went to Ferguson to protest.
So, the headline, is NOT a huge stretch. Slightly misleading, but not completely.
Why doesn't it surprise me that conservatives can't distinguish truth from lies?
Quote from: Exterminator on January 20, 2015, 09:58:14 AM
Why doesn't it surprise me that conservatives can't distinguish truth from lies?
I nailed it. This is exactly what our media does on a regular basis. Both right and left winged media. The muffle the truth. That is what they did, but yet there is some significant truth there.
That is what I stated. It is very, very true, that Soros has funded these groups, with the intent of creating media attention to a particular agenda.
So at the one year mark this community is once again marred by violence and shooting.
Any thoughts on this?
Quote from: Palehorse on August 10, 2015, 05:07:58 PM
So at the one year mark this community is once again marred by violence and shooting.
Any thoughts on this?
One question, how did this guy fire his gun several times in a crowd and never hit anyone. :huh1: Yet the cops :cowboy: were able to hit him several times. :huh1:
Quote from: Palehorse on August 10, 2015, 05:07:58 PM
So at the one year mark this community is once again marred by violence and shooting.
Any thoughts on this?
My thoughts is that the only reason we STILL are on this, is because of the National attention it drew, by the media, flat out getting it wrong....they jumped to conclusions, and reported the story wrong. The SOME of the people there fed off of this and used it as an excuse to loot and destroy. Al Sharpton magnified it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2015, 07:48:55 AM
My thoughts is that the only reason we STILL are on this, is because of the National attention it drew, by the media, flat out getting it wrong....they jumped to conclusions, and reported the story wrong.
Really? The stories I read all led me to the conclusion that some ghetto thug who had just committed a robbery bum rushed a cop and was justifiably shot. What did the stories you read say?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 11, 2015, 10:33:53 AM
Really? The stories I read all led me to the conclusion that some ghetto thug who had just committed a robbery bum rushed a cop and was justifiably shot. What did the stories you read say?
hand up don't shoot..............THAT is what the media told those who are not intelligent enough to find the truth for themselves.......
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2015, 11:16:50 AM
hand up don't shoot..............THAT is what the media told those who are not intelligent enough to find the truth for themselves.......
Yep! Henry is not racist. :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2015, 11:16:50 AM
hand up don't shoot..............THAT is what the media told those who are not intelligent enough to find the truth for themselves.......
Please show where that originated with the media?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 11, 2015, 12:52:13 PM
Please show where that originated with the media?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=58&v=9oamMVQxlDw
This is EXACTLY the point I was proving...the MEDIA is/was responsible for this WHOLE fiasco....
Oh, well if a youtube video says it then it must be true! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 11, 2015, 01:23:43 PM
Oh, well if a youtube video says it then it must be true! :rolleyes:
Certainly you aren't suggesting that something posted on Youtube could be false? :nono:
The media, MSN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN, keeps stirring things up and Black Lives Matter and other hate groups keep busing people in to cause trouble. Anything to stir up hate and unrest. Thankfully a lot of blacks are beginning to see through this.
LOL! So pretty much everyone except (stupid) Fux news; right? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 12, 2015, 08:53:22 AM
LOL! So pretty much everyone except (stupid) Fux news; right? :rolleyes:
Sure, they are showing the rioting and unruly crowds but they are not condoning or excusing it. Did you see the video of this kid that showed him trying to pull a gun out he had in the waist of his pants when the officer tried to handcuff him? Did you see the pic of him holding a gun up in his car? No, what you seen was a pic of him as a sweet innocent child who was shot by a nasty policeofficer.
The gentle GIANT Yea?
A MUST VIEW
Attached is a video taken from a cell phone, showing how Michael Brown.....(yes, the one and the same)....treats a senior black male. This 300 lb. young boy (that's what media calls him) is the same Michael Brown that attempted to take a gun away from a police officer and paid with his life. Here is the fellow that all of the riots are about. Videos don't lie. You will not see this in the media. Pass this around so the truth can be known. It needs to be seen!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, the Grand Jury got it
ALL WRONG.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/th_Marcia%20McClurg_zps7pn76zjq.mp4) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/Marcia%20McClurg_zps7pn76zjq.mp4)
Ya, such a sweet innocent boy....
Quote from: me on August 14, 2015, 04:54:21 AM
Attached is a video taken from a cell phone, showing how Michael Brown.....(yes, the one and the same)....treats a senior black male.
I think the grand jury got it right but that doesn't mean you aren't still a gullible sheep. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp)
Quote from: Exterminator on August 14, 2015, 08:17:02 AM
I think the grand jury got it right but that doesn't mean you aren't still a gullible sheep. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp)
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
I guess that 's a good reason
Quote from: me on August 14, 2015, 04:54:21 AM
You will not see this in the media.
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Except maybe Fox. :rolleyes:
Quote from: me on August 14, 2015, 04:54:21 AM
The gentle GIANT Yea?
A MUST VIEW
Attached is a video taken from a cell phone, showing how Michael Brown.....(yes, the one and the same)....treats a senior black male. This 300 lb. young boy (that's what media calls him) is the same Michael Brown that attempted to take a gun away from a police officer and paid with his life. Here is the fellow that all of the riots are about. Videos don't lie. You will not see this in the media. Pass this around so the truth can be known. It needs to be seen!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, the Grand Jury got it
ALL WRONG.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/th_Marcia%20McClurg_zps7pn76zjq.mp4) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/Marcia%20McClurg_zps7pn76zjq.mp4)
Ya, such a sweet innocent boy....
Further proof that it is impossible to believe anything that you post and that you are incapable of serious discussion.
This goes all the way back to "they can't grow grapes in England."
Quote from: Bo D on August 14, 2015, 09:43:19 AM
Further proof that it is impossible to believe anything that you post and that you are incapable of serious discussion.
This goes all the way back to "they can't grow grapes in England."
Of course you always leave out the part about they actually couldn't for a period of time but then if you mentioned that it would make your comment null and void so, once again, you do what you accuse HH and me of doing, picking what suits your agenda.
Quote from: me on August 14, 2015, 11:14:30 AM
Of course you always leave out the part about they actually couldn't for a period of time but then if you mentioned that it would make your comment null and void so, once again, you do what you accuse HH and me of doing, picking what suits your agenda.
But as you obviously don't recall your writing ...
Quote from: me on January 08, 2009, 05:31:12 PM
And they used to grow grapes in England but can't now because the climate is too cold so where's the global warming there? Check that out... :razz:
http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/index.php?topic=12324.msg293862;topicseen#msg293862 (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/index.php?topic=12324.msg293862;topicseen#msg293862)
You said "
NOW" not some "period of time"
Why in hell do I have to keep reminding her of this? :rant: Dementia must be a terrible thing to live with.
Quote from: Bo D on August 14, 2015, 12:34:33 PM
Dementia must be a terrible thing to live with.
Look at the bright side...she can hide her own easter eggs! :biggrin:
:finger01: :finger2:
Quote from: me on August 14, 2015, 02:15:00 PM
:finger01: :finger2:
Ahhhh! Look! She's counting her healthy brain cells!
Quote from: Bo D on August 14, 2015, 02:19:33 PM
Ahhhh! Look! She's counting her healthy brain cells!
:rotfl: :big grin:
Quote from: Bo D on August 14, 2015, 02:19:33 PM
Ahhhh! Look! She's counting her healthy brain cells!
No, as a matter of fact I was counting yours.
Quote from: me on August 14, 2015, 04:54:57 PM
No, as a matter of fact I was counting yours.
:kissit:
Thanks folks Ole Duke needed a laugh today.
Best regards,
Duke (laughin' is good) Jupiter ;D :wink: :smile: