Ferguson, MO

[Exterminator]

Too late, I already flattered myself...

Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?   

[Palehorse]

I'm sure they didn't want to create anarchy in Ferguson, but they DID jump the gun, and brought much more national attention on this than what was necessary.

They didn't need to say anything.........at least until ALL OF THE EVIDENCE was in.  More bad leadership.

No they did not. Their actions served to take an over-blown situation and calm it to a simmering one. And one that SHOULD be simmering still except for those who refuse to engage in constructive dialog; choosing instead to engage in destructive behaviors.

Look at what happened during the Watts Riots 8/11 through 8/17/1965.

The Democratic National Convention of 1968 August.

The Rodney King Riots of 1992 April.

What government actions were taken then?

[Henry Hawk]

No they did not. Their actions served to take an over-blown situation and calm it to a simmering one. And one that SHOULD be simmering still except for those who refuse to engage in constructive dialog; choosing instead to engage in destructive behaviors.

Look at what happened during the Watts Riots 8/11 through 8/17/1965.

The Democratic National Convention of 1968 August.

The Rodney King Riots of 1992 April.

What government actions were taken then?

We can argue this until the cow comes home.......I think the POTUS should have waited until the facts come in BEFORE he sends someone to a funeral.........THAT makes the COP look guilty. 

If Brown would have overpowered this officer and killed him, do you think the POTUS would have went to that funeral?  I will answer that.......NO.

It is obvious, that sending Eric Holder to this funeral did NOT make this situation any BETTER.  It only assured it will be a racial issue.

[Palehorse]

. . ..I think the POTUS should have waited until the facts come in BEFORE he sends someone to a funeral.........THAT makes the COP look guilty. 

. . .
It is obvious, that sending Eric Holder to this funeral did NOT make this situation any BETTER.  It only assured it will be a racial issue.

It only makes the cop look guilty to those who refuse to abide by the "innocent until proven guilty" portion of our laws. . . In the eyes of the law it did nothing to influence the administration of said law.

It IS a racial issue, and a national one.

Look at the arrest rates of minorities verses white. . . (The statistics have been splashed across several media sites within the last 2 weeks or so). If you can see those stats and still deny there is a problem, then it may be a problem of your own as well.

Or perhaps the conservative solution for the disparity in arrest rates is to increase the number of white families living in poverty?

[Y]

We can argue this until the cow comes home.......I think the POTUS should have waited until the facts come in BEFORE he sends someone to a funeral.........THAT makes the COP look guilty. 

If Brown would have overpowered this officer and killed him, do you think the POTUS would have went to that funeral?  I will answer that.......NO.

It is obvious, that sending Eric Holder to this funeral did NOT make this situation any BETTER.  It only assured it will be a racial issue.

1. You simply think the 'nigra' president should have waited - not any white one.  We can always count on you to be there with ideological and racist stupidity when it comes to this president, his black appointees, and racial matters in general.

2. The 'cop' is 'guilty'.  Maybe not in the eyes of the law as it currently stands, but nevertheless he had the option to not take a life and he chose to be judge, jury, and executioner.

3. Specious reasoning as a justification for your racism.  That incident didn't happen therefore any conjecture to arrive at a conclusion as to the actions of your targets is purely BS.

4. More of your crapola attempting to justify your racism.  The situation was a racial situation from the get go.  There was no way around it.  Holder and the President's actions at least gave the people some hope that it had the attention of powers not under local sway.

[Y]

This, like Louis Gates controversy in Cambridge Mass, where the POTUS regrettably admitted he spoke to soon, and said the Cambridge police officers "acted stupidly". 

Then in the Trayvon Martin incident, before the facts were all gathered, Obama made the statement "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon,".....

All three of these incidents could have been less dramatic, if our President would have kept his mouth f'ing SHUT, until ALL the facts were gathered....but he didn't.

1. Do you even know who Gates is?  The officer did act 'stupidly' in that instance.  It's situations like that which point out the utter ridiculousness of how so many white officers deal with blacks.

2. OMG!  How DARE that 'nigra' in YOUR 'white' house make such a valid point!  Did you really think that if Obama and Michelle had a son he would look like your pansy white arse?  Get real...real other than real, real, stupid.  Jeezus-peezus!

3. That's just a blatant lie from you.  There's not one thing that you can make a direct - or even an indirect - A to B connection to any 'dramatics' in those situations...and you wonder why you get the 'racist' tag to wear.   

[Henry Hawk]

Got nothing to say to you Y. 

[Y]

The following was posted my an IMPD friend of mine who works the northwest district.  It's worth a read.

"Warning...long rant ahead.....From the start of this Ferguson MO/Michael Brown/Darrin Wilson incident I haven't posted any opinions or thoughts. I have been waiting for the system we have in place to run it's course. This entire incident and what has happened since has really bothered me.

This is what I do know, I am an American Police Officer. My job is the only profession in the United States where I have the ability to take another human life. 99.9% of the time that decision has to be made in a split second. Let me say that again, when I go to work each night there is the possibility I will have to take the life of another human being, someone's loved one. I have no military training, I'm not some ultimate warrior, I don't want to shoot somebody. I am a human being just like everybody else. I am a father, a husband, a son, a brother, an uncle, a friend, and a neighbor. I went to grade school, high school, and college. I play football in the front yard with my kids, I have dogs, I argue with my wife, I make bad decisions, I get sick, I have to blow my nose like everyone else.

Lets talk about that BIG elephant in the room. I have been an American Police Officer for 13 years. During those 13 years I have been shot at, I have been punched, spit on, kicked, and been called every 4 letter word you can imagine. I have shot someone, I have bled in the streets, I have had broken bones, Sprains, I have been involved in vehicle crashes, and I have taken a life. The elephant in the room is that during most of these incidents I have been SCARED. Sometimes so scared that I was shaking. No one teaches you how to deal with being scared. There wasn't some magical class in the Police Academy that teaches you to rip your shirt off, show the big "S" on your chest, and solve all the worlds problems. I do know this....even though I was scared and never know whats about to happen I have a job to do. Someone has called 911 because they are at rock bottom. They have no other option but to call a complete stranger to solve their problem. That person is ME, and every other first responder in this country. I wish I didn't have to answer any 911 calls. That would mean all is right in the world!!

Here is something to think about...everyone has been involved in an argument or fight with their significant other or family member. Remember how tiring that can be? It can be physically exhausting. On any given night I respond to 3-7 domestic disturbances. I go into a strangers home and try to solver the problems of people I have never met. Sometimes it's a screaming match, sometimes it's a knock down drag out fight, sometimes there are weapons involved. I haven't had much training in social work, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I'm a normal person that has been brought in to temporarily solve the problems of other people. At the end of my shift I'm physically exhausted. At times I have fallen asleep on the way home. I walk in the door and now have to tend to my wife and 2 children at 6 AM. At times that hasn't gone very well to fault no one but myself. I'm still learning how to be the best PERSON I can be and that will probably be a never ending learning process.

I have seen unimaginable things done to children, I have been on countless homicide scenes, and have seen and heard things even the news media won't touch. I have seen Police Officers shot, injured, trapped in their Police cars after a horrible accident. I have seen Police Officers rewarded, fired, and treated like a piece of trash. We don't always make the right decisions. I know it's shocking but we make MISTAKES. Just like in EVERY PROFESSION IN THE WORLD Police Officers break laws. just like all those other professions there is a system in place that deals with people that break those laws. Less than .05% of all Police Officers in this country break the law. I don't think there is an Officer in this country that wants to work side by side with a dirty cop. I WILL NOT give up my career and my good name for someone who can't abide by the rules....PERIOD.

I don't know exactly what took place in Ferguson but what I do know is what has happened since is absolutely SICKENING. If Darrin Wilson shot someone in cold blood then he should face every consequence we have to offer. Citizens don't have the right to take the law into their own hands. Peaceful demonstrations have a much greater effect than lawless stupidity.
In closing a bit of advice, DO WHAT A POLICE OFFER SAYS...it's that simple. If you feel like that Officer has done something wrong there are SEVERAL outlets to make a complaint. If you don't listen to an Officer's commands there is a chance you might get hurt. If you assault an Officer there is a chance you might get shot. I can probably guess that Darrin Wilson was SCARED during that incident. I can probably guess that he is SCARED to death right now. The fact of the matter is if Michael Brown would have done EXACTLY what Officer Wilson told him to do none of us would even be talking about this right now. This country has has fallen into the dark hole of authority. No one has respect for others and the majority of our country has a problem with authority. No one likes being told what to do. I see this as a major failure in parenting. I am the person I am today because of my Mother. She was a single Mom who raised 3 kids and worked several jobs to provide for us. I learned respect from her and learned that I'm not always right and there are times you have to just shut up and listen!! Next time you deal with a Police Officer and have a bad experience please try to remember that he or she might have just come from a homicide scene, or a child molest investigation, or was just spit on. Does that justify an Officer being mean or rude? No, but we are human. We don't do everything right all the time!

I'll step down off my soap box but I want to leave you with this...I have an open passenger seat in my Police Car. If any of you want to see what an American Police Officer in the great City of Indianapolis goes through in 8.5 hours please get a hold of me. I promise you will see things you never thought you would see before. And guess what, you will be SCARED just like we are!!"

I don't think that is such a great justification for anything (to me it's more like an invitation for a pity party) - and especially not for the Ferguson situation.

These points won't necessarily be in proper order because I don't want Ferguson to get lost in this.

1. Do we really want to execute people for theft or assault in this country?  Is that what we want and what we've come down to - especially when it's white cop and black (pick your minority) perp?

2. Do we really want LEO's on the job whose response to a situation - even one where they might take an arse whuppin' - to be deadly force, execution.

Do you REALLY want to live in that country? 

Oh sure, for most of us - particularly because we're white and only see/hear about situations like that in Ferguson in the media - don't care, those folks are 'criminals' and 'deserve' it, so it's OK for our LEO's to take on the authority of judge, jury, and executioner. 

We'll let me tell y'all that we're supposed to be a country and society of LAW which sets the standard for every person to face their accusers and the charges and have their day in court - not be killed in the streets.  Yeah, some of these yahoos are despicable scum but you cannot have a county/society of law for only some of the people.  It's has to be equal for everyone.

[Y]

Got nothing to say to you Y. 

I know you don't, Hank, because you don't have a leg to stand on.  You'd rather be a closed minded bigot/racist and ideologue than open yourself up to self examination/criticism because it's not a pretty picture of yourself, especially as you portray yourself on the internutz.

You know that in general I like you, but that doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to or refuse to call you out on your BS.  Capisce?

[Henry Hawk]

I know you don't, Hank, because you don't have a leg to stand on.  You'd rather be a closed minded bigot/racist and ideologue than open yourself up to self examination/criticism because it's not a pretty picture of yourself, especially as you portray yourself on the internutz.

You know that in general I like you, but that doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to or refuse to call you out on your BS.  Capisce?

Oh, I like you too, in general, but on the internet, you are too biased with your blind opinion, and you resort to calling people racist when you don't have a leg to stand on. 

[Y]

The core of the problem in the Ferguson incident is the same as in most police shootings - the extremely wide latitude allowed to justify the use of deadly force.

My position is that it is far too wide and allows for far too many abuses and corruptions.

One can't have a civil society and one based on the rule of law and yet have LEOs to so easily assume the power of judge, jury, and executioner.  You wind up with what we have now, far too many interactions between LEOs and citizens end up with deadly force being used.

Here's the Ferguson issue from LEO's perspective, including an analysis of the applicable law: http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/7782643-Why-Officer-Darren-Wilson-wasnt-indicted/

The problem is that it's simple justification. 

Now I understand there are dangers to the job - though not nearly as dangerous as espoused, as of 2013 LEO still hadn't shown up in Forbe's top 10 dangerous jobs in America - but then no one drafts anyone to be an LEO.  As with any job, when you take it you assume all the inherent risks.  That's not to say we shouldn't try to make the job as reasonably safe as humanly possible, but with LEOs that can't be at the expense of our rule of law.

With the Ferguson LEO shooting, I see the officer 'guilty' of resorting to unnecessary deadly force, and probably of resorting to the 'dead men tell no tales' so common in situations of self defense.  Officer Wilson had the option of waiting for back up before confronting the situation.  Wilson also had the option of driving out of the situation when he was supposedly attacked.  I see no scenario with the facts as currently known that should have prompted deadly force.

Just to preempt one of the common arguments, from the videos I've seen Wilson is right handed meaning his gun was on his right side, away from the driver's door, and with the car door and Wilson's body between the outside driver's side and Wilson's gun.

[Y]

Oh, I like you too, in general, but on the internet, you are too biased with your blind opinion, and you resort to calling people racist when you don't have a leg to stand on. 

PFFT!  That's simple mimicry and CYA from you.  When have you EVER seen me put forth a 'blind' opinion. 

I'd even ask that about me of anyone here.  Practically all the folks here have known me for years upon years.  Unlike you, I neither get my 'talking' points nor reach up my arse for any 'opinion' I propose. 

And truthfully you can't prove otherwise. 

[Henry Hawk]

PFFT!  That's simple mimicry and CYA from you.  When have you EVER seen me put forth a 'blind' opinion. 

I'd even ask that about me of anyone here.  Practically all the folks here have known me for years upon years.  Unlike you, I neither get my 'talking' points nor reach up my arse for any 'opinion' I propose. 

And truthfully you can't prove otherwise. 

Whatever, just because you post a link, doesn't mean you are correct.  It means you found someone that supports the same idea you have, but it doesn't mean you are correct....it is just your opinion.

[Y]

Whatever, just because you post a link, doesn't mean you are correct.  It means you found someone that supports the same idea you have, but it doesn't mean you are correct....it is just your opinion.

Good Grief, Charlie Brown!

I should have known, because by the way you use links and C/P - the way you describe above and attribute to me - has always shown you don't understand the usage of evidence.

There is a major difference between what you describe - what you practice - and how I, and several others here, present evidence as a showing of underlying fact (that's extremely important) to build a case for the position/opinion espoused, and not the opinion itself as you and you ilk so casually do.

I do understand, because the problem is that you and your ilk appear to lack the ability to craft an argument and are therefore left to parroting/regurgitating someone elses words - usually verbatim - and thinking you've actually expressed your own 'opinion'.

[me]

It only makes the cop look guilty to those who refuse to abide by the "innocent until proven guilty" portion of our laws. . . In the eyes of the law it did nothing to influence the administration of said law.

It IS a racial issue, and a national one.

Look at the arrest rates of minorities verses white. . . (The statistics have been splashed across several media sites within the last 2 weeks or so). If you can see those stats and still deny there is a problem, then it may be a problem of your own as well.

Or perhaps the conservative solution for the disparity in arrest rates is to increase the number of white families living in poverty?

Those are stats taken from minority areas so, yes, it is going to seem biased.  A Chicago ghetto is largely black so therefore the arrest rate for blacks is going to outnumber that of whites.