The Unknown Zone - proudly an American forum!

Well, i guess i will start my own rant........

this has been building up for a spell now....and i will do my best to keep it level...........but,

I'm sick and tired of being bashed and put-down for being a "white, Conservative, Christian".....all three of these pronouns are under attack in this country........

let's start with ....White......

Because I'm white....it seems like, i have to be sorry for something that happened to others WAY before I was even born.......back to the Indians, and slaves......it seems, that people out there feel that our Government should take tax payers money and give it to Indians and ancestors of african-americans who was mistreated a couple of hundred years ago....

Now, let me say, that Slavery was horrible and and embarrassment to all of mankind....the Indians got screwed........no doubt about it.....
i can only wish it never happened but it did.....but, because I'm white.....i still see people posting about white guy this and white guy that...and how they are screwing everybody............well, I, have never screwed ANYBODY.....and because I'm a white guy........i am looped in as a piece of dirt by many, many people....

Conservative...........that is just a bad word by people who stereotype....they think of Archie Bunker...a raciest, bigot, money-grubbing, out-to-screw the poor people and make the rich RICHER....and, that aint so..........

I'm not a raciest or a bigot........i was not raised that way........i have good black friends and gay friends......I have been a penny or two away from being poor........I'm now maybe a nickel away....I don't hate nobody..............but, being a Conservative means that I cannot speak out against anything without hurting somebody's feelings...........cause we are just mean people............at least that is what many people truly think....


Christian...............you know, this one is probably the toughest...............I was referred to recently by a poster on here, that I, as a Christian am "demeaning to human beings".......... :confused: 

wow!...as a Christian, and I still say, I represent the average Christian in this country.........I have traveled alot...and met a lot of people...and they are the same everywhere you go.......some good ... some bad....but on the average.........Christians have given millions (probably billions) of dollars of their hard earned money......to people on the streets, for food, clothes and shelter ALL over the world........

I have worked in homeless shelters side by side other "white Christians" who with out receiving a dime or in some cases a thank you by some very poor people...i was not there for ANY personal gratitude, I never told all my friends and co-workers....I just did it, because I believe that was what I was suppose to do....i took my own personal vacation time away from my family....and by the way, I never preached to one of them...not even once.........I prayed with some, I have hugged many...I have worked from sun up to sun down....working in peoples houses that I never ever seen before.......i was called white shit by onlookers...was threatened with my life for being somewhere they didn't think i should be...........and maybe i shouldn't be.........but i was.........my church has done wonderful things for people in our community, in other states and countries..........money given without any reservation....

I'm not saying any of this for any personal praise..............i am saying this because i am tired of being trashed by people who don't know what they are talking about............

I am a White, Conservative Christian man....who is very pleased at what I stand for....and, there are millions across this country JUST like me...........we work, raise good kids, are happily married.....and we follow the teachings of the Bible.....mostly to love your neighbor has you would love yourself................and yes, we love our God, with all our heart, mind and soul...........without any reservations..........

and yet, by millions of Americans....we are simply demeaning to human beings....

that's it................henry's rant.

HH.... That is by far one of the best posts I've ever read. I get where you're coming from totally. You hit the nail on the head, AND pounded it into the ground. You've stated what a lot of people would be afraid to say out loud for fear of repercussion.
Great post HH.  :clap:

 :wink:

way to go HENRY.

NOW DIDN'T YOU FEEL BETTER AFTER THAT?

best thing about it all is that you have put it out there.

that is what i call talking to myself.

i do it a lot. dialogue becomes easier with others when you have it out of your own system

once you can openly admit yourself to others.

OTHERS are easier to understand. you have freed yourself of your mental baggage :five: :wink:

Great post Henry!  8)
:yes:

You'll always be my favorite right wing conservative Christian! :yes:

Quote from: Sandy Eggo on August 04, 2008, 07:53:14 AM
You'll always be my favorite right wing conservative Christian! :yes:

Mine too!

thx guys! :yes:

of course we all love you henry. 

now define what you think being a "conservative" means.

Great post Henry.
As far as being put down because you are a Christian, I think it is happening on every board. People will say things on a board that they would never say to a persons face.

Okay, my latest rant IS:..............we are being scammed by the left.

It is becoming very clear, that this...........so-called "stimulus" package is just a cover to pass, some of the most liberal spending bills in the history of this country.

They are using scare tactics, into making Americans believe, that if this package is not signed NOW!!!!....we may never recover!!!

This has been said by the new POTUS along with several members of the left lead congress.

there is so much liberal pork stuffed into this.............but, yet THAT is being ignored, they say we need 'spending' to 'stimulate' the economy.............

HOW is giving ACORN, several $ billion dollars going to 'stimulate' our economy?

I can go on and on..........

I am on a real RANT.......... :rant:

I have only taken a few bites of lunch.....and I just threw it away.....

Does anybody else have a "ounce" of concern with this bill?   :confused:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 11, 2009, 12:58:41 PM
They are using scare tactics,

And this is one of the most despicable scare tactics I have ever seen.

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.0 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.0)

"Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan"

This has already been shown to be an outright lie!

Quote from: Bo D on February 11, 2009, 01:06:36 PM
And this is one of the most despicable scare tactics I have ever seen.

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.0 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.0)

"Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan"

This has already been shown to be an outright lie!

Post proof.

Quote from: Bo D on February 11, 2009, 01:06:36 PM
And this is one of the most despicable scare tactics I have ever seen.

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.0 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.0)

"Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan"

This has already been shown to be an outright lie!

Bo, I honestly have not paid much attention to that story.....and it is titled to 'stimulate' an argument, I'm sure... ;D

but, when Obama, himself said that...IF this Bill is not passed, the country may never pull out of the recession...........THAT rubs me the wrong way..............if he truly want's to help America.........THEN .... LOSE...THE...PORK!!!..........I honestly feel, he just wants it passed, without reservation from the American People.

therefore, my trust in him has be lowered even more, and I am becoming a very sour American....and, I am not going to sit back and take it!!....

I will attack, just as many of the left did on Bush, when ever I see something that is wrong...............this Bill is WRONG!!!

Quote from: me on February 11, 2009, 01:22:44 PM
Post proof.

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.msg299029#msg299029 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.msg299029#msg299029)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 11, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
Bo, I honestly have not paid much attention to that story.....and it is titled to 'stimulate' an argument, I'm sure... ;D

Henry, health care is a subject near and dear to me and something I know more than just a little bit about. You have your demons ... I have mine.

And when someone posts blatant lies, I will call them on it.

Quote from: Bo D on February 11, 2009, 02:02:34 PM
Henry, health care is a subject near and dear to me and something I know more than just a little bit about. You have your demons ... I have mine.

And when someone posts blatant lies, I will call them on it.

I have no problem with THAT Bo!...you should.....as I do with this whole stimulus package.

I need to start paying MORE attention to the healthcare issue, because I know it is coming...and Me is correct, that there IS a portion of money in this package that is addressing this.............and I am NOT in favor of Government running the healthcare industry...

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 11, 2009, 02:40:09 PM
I have no problem with THAT Bo!...you should.....as I do with this whole stimulus package.

I need to start paying MORE attention to the healthcare issue, because I know it is coming...and Me is correct, that there IS a portion of money in this package that is addressing this.............and I am NOT in favor of Government running the healthcare industry...

Do you have a problem with the insurance companies running the health care industry? Because that is what is happening now!

If you read the bill, you will see that the government's aim is to facilitate electronic information gathering and sharing among doctors ...
Page 442
''(3) reduces health care costs resulting from inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, duplicative care, and incomplete information; provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care;"

Henry, here is the text of the bill in question ....

19 ''(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per
20 form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con
21 sistent with the development of a nationwide health infor
22 mation technology infrastructure that allows for the elec
23 tronic use and exchange of information and that—

442
•HR 1 EH
1 ''(1) ensures that each patient's health informa
2 tion is secure and protected, in accordance with ap
3 plicable law;
4 ''(2) improves health care quality, reduces med
5 ical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances
6 the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
7 ''(3) reduces health care costs resulting from
8 inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, du
9 plicative care, and incomplete information;
10 ''(4) provides appropriate information to help
11 guide medical decisions at the time and place of
12 care;
13 ''(5) ensures the inclusion of meaningful public
14 input in such development of such infrastructure;
15 ''(6) improves the coordination of care and in
16 formation among hospitals, laboratories, physician
17 offices, and other entities through an effective infra
18 structure for the secure and authorized exchange of
19 health care information;
20 ''(7) improves public health activities and facili
21 tates the early identification and rapid response to
22 public health threats and emergencies, including bio
23 terror events and infectious disease outbreaks;
24 ''(8) facilitates health and clinical research and
25 health care quality;

443
•HR 1 EH
1 ''(9) promotes prevention of chronic diseases;
2 ''(10) promotes a more effective marketplace,
3 greater competition, greater systems analysis, in
4 creased consumer choice, and improved outcomes in
5 health care services; and
6 ''(11) improves efforts to reduce health dispari
7 ties.

Thanks Bo...

now, I just need to be able to read it and understand what some of it REALLY means....

and does this have anything to do with ....stimulating this economy?

and if this is not passed in this Bill, will it hurt our economy?

maybe this needs to be part of a spending Bill NOT part of the ...so-calledl.."stimulus" Bill...

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 11, 2009, 03:21:38 PM
Thanks Bo...

now, I just need to be able to read it and understand what some of it REALLY means....

and does this have anything to do with ....stimulating this economy?

and if this is not passed in this Bill, will it hurt our economy?

maybe this needs to be part of a spending Bill NOT part of the ...so-calledl.."stimulus" Bill...

I would be able to hire about 20 more network and communication engineers to help the local hospitals and doctors offices get up to speed on electronic record keeping.

And that's just my company and my clients alone.

Quote from: Bo D on February 11, 2009, 03:42:05 PM
I would be able to hire about 20 more network and communication engineers to help the local hospitals and doctors offices get up to speed on electronic record keeping.

And that's just my company and my clients alone.

now THAT is what we, (at least I) need to hear....thanks Bo

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 11, 2009, 03:55:46 PM
now THAT is what we, (at least I) need to hear....thanks Bo

No problem, Henry. As I said, that is a very realistic projection based on my company and clients alone. Imagine the thousands and thousands of jobs nationwide that this one provision alone would create.

And think a little harder about the putt-putt golf course. It requires construction (jobs) advertising (jobs) managers (jobs) ticket takers (jobs) supplies (jobs) etc., etc.

What you think of as pork (although there is some pure, unadulterated pork there) may really be job producers if you really think about it.

Bo as it was written it is fine, I think, it's the changes that were slipped into it that I'm objecting to.  The changes that were put in after the bill went back to the Senate.  I do not have any kind of insurance but I'd rather have none than have what Canada has.  My better half just had cataract surgery and the Dr. was excellent and discounted his payment and the hospital was paid through a program the hospital has.  I had to go to the emergency room last summer and it was the same with my bill and I was treated the same as any patient who had insurance.  Care is available out there if people only ask and it is good treatment and not dictated by any insurance plan.  I'm sure if the hospital and Dr. had worded or coded your bill differently the insurance would have paid.  Free is not always good. I do not trust the government, any of them, and when they start talking about giving me something free I am always leery of it. 

Me don't think for a minute that the good deeds of your husband's doctor are going to happen often.  They will become few and far between.  More and more people are losing their jobs.  They can't discount for everyone. 

It has been said that most Americans (myself included) are one accident or hospital stay away from bankruptcy.  I think if I didn't have insurance, I would take what I could get and not think twice about where it came from.

Quote from: kimmi on February 11, 2009, 05:51:41 PM
Me don't think for a minute that the good deeds of your husband's doctor are going to happen often.  They will become few and far between.  More and more people are losing their jobs.  They can't discount for everyone. 

It has been said that most Americans (myself included) are one accident or hospital stay away from bankruptcy.  I think if I didn't have insurance, I would take what I could get and not think twice about where it came from.

Most Dr.s will discount for no insurance Kimmi mainly because they don't have to mess with all the forms and such.  I can give you examples of people with no insurance who have been helped all day but you still wouldn't listen.  I have a friend who had 3 heart attacks in '07' and had no insurance and she gets her medicine free of charge through the hospital and there again her Dr.s were paid and the hospital bill was paid through private funded means through the hospital.  Her daughter got online and found those programs.
I know another person who had been taken to court for some past medical bills and her check was being garnished and she lost a tax return but she dug around and found a means to get that paid.

Quote from: Bo D on February 11, 2009, 05:04:53 PM
No problem, Henry. As I said, that is a very realistic projection based on my company and clients alone. Imagine the thousands and thousands of jobs nationwide that this one provision alone would create.

And think a little harder about the putt-putt golf course. It requires construction (jobs) advertising (jobs) managers (jobs) ticket takers (jobs) supplies (jobs) etc., etc.

What you think of as pork (although there is some pure, unadulterated pork there) may really be job producers if you really think about it.

One man's pork is another man's job.

Having been associated with the academic field (teaching and research) for 30+ years, I have to say that what may look like pork in some places leads to serious research in other areas, and has led to discoveries that now routinely save lives.

Not a bad return for a chunk of "pork," eh?

I'm here to get a few things off of my chest.....I'm not going to debate it.......I as simply releasing my thoughts...

first of all, It is my prediction..........we are on the verge of a revolution!...Americans are soon going to realize, that apathy is alive and well in this country....for it was apathy that just won the election for Obama.....to many folks out there voted, who are too wrapped up in iphones, texting, videos, clubbing, and living life as there is NO tommorow....they listened to people like Oprah....who glorified a man, as a "great"...a "tremendous leader"...

He is a man, who was a senator for 100 plus days.....he was a communitee organizer....who happened to have the looks, the family and a good speaking ability.........and the hollywood crowd....and the media......elevated him to the top.  He has been glorified and magnified.............but the bottom line is.....he has never done anything, to earn ANYTHING!........he got a free ride to the White House...

I see a man, who is in WAY over his head.....and these are WAY too serious times, for an unexperienced community organizer to be leading the GREATEST COUNTRY on earth...there are packs of wolves just licking their tounges, having their way with him...........such as pelosi and reid...as prime examples....there are grabbing him by his little hand....and leading him.

They just gave him the LARGEST spending BILL of ALL TIME.........during a time when....well, spending is something we can NO longer do......

it seems to me, that he just STEPPED ON the very people who MAKES country go!!!....and he is exonerating the people who caused this problem.....bailing out those who bought MORE house than they can afford....and sticking to those who bought wisely....

all of the peoples investments are NOW going into the government, instead of the free market!!!

It was the FREE MARKET that once made this country great!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nearly 60 million Americans was able to see this coming............unfortunatly, there was slightly MORE that, drank the Oprah kool-aid!!...HOPE & CHANGE! HOPE & CHANGE! HOPE & CHANGE! HOPE & CHANGE! HOPE & CHANGE! HOPE & CHANGE! HOPE & CHANGE!.................THAT WAS all it took, to take us to where we are now.

Folks, we are in a recession................recessions have come and gone for decades now........it was during the Carter Administration...........when we was in a similar time...............unemployment was much worse than it is now..........inflation was worse (but that's beggining to change).....we had an Oil Crisis..........

We did NOT get out of that by INCREASING THE BURDEN on Americans.............NO!!....we got out of that time, by GREAT LEADERSHIP!!...Ronald Reagan, did NOT go on National TV and tell Americans that "we may never recover from this!!".............NOPE, he went on TV, and I remember clearly.....and spoke about the Good Times that America has coming.......that, THERE will soon be a time when those who dreamed of owning their own business can become a reality.........the home onwership is very possible..........that Americans are the greatest resource in the WORLD............people once again began to believe in the American Dream.....

GM, FORD, and CHRYLSER all became profitable...and produced automobles like NEVER before....interest rates was cut and people began buying and building homes.....our Military once again became a profession of honor!!
American Pride was restored!!!!.........and Reagan lead us.

NOT by increasing the burden upon Americans........but, by Cutting Taxes..........gave the money BACK to Americans and letting Americans invest in themselves...........

I don't see that as a REAL scenerio, at this time with BHO...................I have been told to give him time....give him a chance.....well, i have no other choice, but to give him time......

You see, I totally disagree with the liberal ideology..........PERIOD!........I think it is bad for America!........and I believe there are 60,000,000 Americans that feel the same way...........and that number is growing rapidly, daily.

WE are on a verge, in my opinion of Americans.............heading to Washington.........and not just because of BHO....but because of the moronic congressmen that have taken over the POTUS, who is in over his head.

I'm not asking for responses nor am I going to further explain or post any links.............this is just MY OPINION!!...ON MY thread....I'm mean feel free to spit on me or give me a thumbs up....I'm good either way....

there is MORE to come.................same station ..... I need to go back to work.

 :wink:

DANG! WAY TO HOLD BACK HENRY! 8) :yes:

I fully agree with you but you have a much better way of expressing it to make sense than I do.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Pretty well put, Hank. I think most all of us share your concerns to some degree. Now, I'd like to have this subject "embiggened", with your permission: What can we simple folk DO to position ourselves for dark days to come? I'm especially concerned with protecting life savings, and possibly dealing with shortages (or inavailability) of goods. Please understand that I'm no survivalist or paranoid, but would like to have some kind of edge, just in case. Do you have any thoughts to share? Regards, Pa

Question: If an actor suffering from Alzheimer's can do it why can't a community organizer?  :biggrin:

(Rush to judgment?)

Quote from: Ma and Pa on February 19, 2009, 01:49:46 PM
Pretty well put, Hank. I think most all of us share your concerns to some degree. Now, I'd like to have this subject "embiggened", with your permission: What can we simple folk DO to position ourselves for dark days to come? I'm especially concerned with protecting life savings, and possibly dealing with shortages (or inavailability) of goods. Please understand that I'm no survivalist or paranoid, but would like to have some kind of edge, just in case. Do you have any thoughts to share? Regards, Pa

You know Pa, far be it from me to be giving any advice to anyone...all I can say is my opinion....and many on here find that not worth too much... ;D

This is just me, and me only....but, I am going through a renewal of my faith in Christ at this juncture in my life....I am trying to step it up, as a husband, father, and friend.....and I still sometimes really struggle at being the person that I want to be.  But, I am putting GOD first as often as my mind allows me to....and THAT is where I struggle....especially when I go on one of my rants.... :spooked: :yes: :biggrin:

with that being said, I am in the process of purchasing a home, that is WELL, within my means.....I say that, as it is probably small for a family of the size that I have....(5 kids - with only 4 at home at this time)...but I have two in college with two  in elementary school and one going into high school...

I am situating myself to be able to support my family with only my income....so my wife can work for the savings.........I am very close to achieving this, but I am cautiously optimistic.....I have been listening to Dave Ramsey, and find myself really clinging to his thought process.....you should listen to him or read his book.

as far as the future of this country, I STILL believe in the American people!!!....I think this country is bigger than any presidency or congress..........it swings from left to right....and it will soon, return to the center again....I think this recession can and will fix itself....without Bush or Obama's help....but, the American people need to FIRST wake up....and start caring again....and voice their opinions MUCH clearer.....

I appreciate you even asking my opinion..and it is just that  my opinion.......but, it is also my outlook and my plan for my family..... :yes:

Yeah, Henry, share your military training with us.  (http://forums.gottadeal.com/images/smilies/rotflol.gif)

Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2009, 02:28:34 PM
Yeah, Henry, share your military training with us.  (http://forums.gottadeal.com/images/smilies/rotflol.gif)

I'm not sure how to respond to you on this.....did I imply I knew anything about military training or indicate that anybody should?... :confused: :rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2009, 03:02:31 PM
I'm not sure how to respond to you on this.....did I imply I knew anything about military training or indicate that anybody should?... :confused: :rolleyes:

Of course you don't.  I was responding to Ma and Pa's post which seemed to be asking for ideas about how to protect oneself in the event of the certain chaos that will erupt should our economy collapse.

Well now I'M lost, Exterminator, what about military training? I'm way too old to enlist. Can you elucidate?

Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2009, 03:13:21 PM
Of course you don't.  I was responding to Ma and Pa's post which seemed to be asking for ideas about how to protect oneself in the event of the certain chaos that will erupt should our economy collapse.

well, you said....Yeah, Henry, share your military training with us....THAT sounds like you was responding to me...and btw....Pa was responding to MY thoughts about americans revolting and NOT the economy collapsing.. 

Quote from: Palehorse on February 19, 2009, 01:56:44 PM
Question: If an actor suffering from Alzheimer's can do it why can't a community organizer?  :biggrin:

(Rush to judgment?)

He didn't have Alzheimer's at the time and he had been a Governor before becoming President.  :wink:

H. Hawk: Thanks for your response to my query about positioning one's self for even further social and/or economic reversals. I give credence to your opinion, or I wouldn't have asked for it. As I understand your stance on the matter, you are, in essence:
     1. Reaffirming your relationship with your Maker
     2. Securing affordable and sustainable housing for your family and
     3. Tightening up the details of your finances with the advice of this Mr.
         Ramsey
I can't find fault with any of that; hope it proves to be a good strategy for you.
Any thoughts on keeping/growing the hawk's nest eggs, other than keeping them in different baskets -- a must for everyone? CD's, stocks (now or later), Krugerrands in a coffee can in the back yard? The last shoe hasn't fallen yet,
vis a vis bank failures: National City has been bought out; Key Bank's stock has dropped like a rock. I don't have all that much faith in the FDIC, myself. I know there are moves I should be making, but for the life of me, I'm not sure what they are. Too smart not to be worried; too DUMB to know how to make out like a bandit. :wink:

Quote from: Ma and Pa on February 20, 2009, 01:49:24 PM
H. Hawk: Thanks for your response to my query about positioning one's self for even further social and/or economic reversals. I give credence to your opinion, or I wouldn't have asked for it. As I understand your stance on the matter, you are, in essence:
     1. Reaffirming your relationship with your Maker
     2. Securing affordable and sustainable housing for your family and
     3. Tightening up the details of your finances with the advice of this Mr.
         Ramsey
I can't find fault with any of that; hope it proves to be a good strategy for you.
Any thoughts on keeping/growing the hawk's nest eggs, other than keeping them in different baskets -- a must for everyone? CD's, stocks (now or later), Krugerrands in a coffee can in the back yard? The last shoe hasn't fallen yet,
vis a vis bank failures: National City has been bought out; Key Bank's stock has dropped like a rock. I don't have all that much faith in the FDIC, myself. I know there are moves I should be making, but for the life of me, I'm not sure what they are. Too smart not to be worried; too DUMB to know how to make out like a bandit. :wink:

Thanks Pa,

again, I'm really not the person to be giving out advice, but my opinion is that it seems to me that the next move by this administration is to take over (or nationalize) the banks....and Gov running ANYTHING is usually a bad thing.........so, this does not seem like a good thing....it is going to destroy the private sector...all competition of banking would be gone....THIS is NOT the role of our Government....at least it was not set up that way by our forefathers..........it is just another step towards socialism....again, in my opinion.

Quote from: me on February 19, 2009, 05:37:50 PM
He didn't have Alzheimer's at the time and he had been a Governor before becoming President.  :wink:

I didn't realize you were his personal physician! I stand corrected!  :rolleyes:

and he NEVER used the scare tactics that this President has used, in such a short time.........he is playing on peoples fears to achieve his agenda...

he is preaching doom and gloom ..... UNLESS....we spend a zillion dollars on programs.

there is talk so far of nationalized:  healthcare & Banking...what is next? Oil? ... radio?

I am going PUBLIC as of NOW... :no:..I do NOT trust this ADMINISTRATION.. :no:..especially this President....

more to come.

I find it quite disturbing to see so many, so quick to rush to judgment of an individual that has only been in office for 29 days. . .Seriously.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 20, 2009, 03:18:25 PM
he is playing on peoples fears to achieve his agenda...

he is preaching doom and gloom ..... UNLESS....

Hmmm...where have I heard that before .... UNLESS we invade Iraq, we will be fighting the terrorists on our own soil?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 20, 2009, 03:18:25 PM
and he NEVER used the scare tactics that this President has used...

Are you high?  He worked the fear angle after 9/11 so hard that all of you chicken-hawks were soiling your diapers every time you turned around.

Quote...he is playing on peoples fears to achieve his agenda...

Like an unnecessary war?

Quote...he is preaching doom and gloom ..... UNLESS....we spend a zillion dollars on programs.

So hundreds of billions in Iraq is perfectly fine but hundreds of billions on the U.S. of A. is wrong?  WTF?

QuoteI am going PUBLIC as of NOW... :no:..I do NOT trust this ADMINISTRATION.. :no:..especially this President....

Well, there's a shocker...the guy who spent months spreading outright lies about Obama before the election suddenly doesn't trust him.  How do you rationalize your own dishonesty?

Quote from: Palehorse on February 20, 2009, 03:21:43 PM
I find it quite disturbing to see so many, so quick to rush to judgment of an individual that has only been in office for 29 days. . .Seriously.

PH,  I hate that I am....but, I am just calling things the way I see them.....I hope I am over reacting, but....this is a forum...and I'm just laying it out there....for whatever people want to make of it....but, I can also tell you this....I am NOT alone with this attitude.....many people I work with...some who voted for Obama....are feeling this way...

Bo, we have NOT fought terrorist on our own soil have we?... :razz: ;)

ex, I never spread any lies....

let's just see what happens...........the proof will be in the pudding.

again, I would rather be wrong and have you harrass me...than be right....but, I'm simply making a call on how I feel about things that have transpired the last few weeks.

how am I being dishonest...........I have always stated MY opinions....that is pretty much it.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 20, 2009, 04:15:57 PM
ex, I never spread any lies....

Dude, you absolutely spread lies on the old Herald Bulletin forum.  You would post something about Obama, someone like Kent would come along and prove it wrong and you would continue to post it over and over and over again.  Continuing to spread information that has been proven to you is false is lying.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 20, 2009, 04:22:13 PM
Dude, you absolutely spread lies on the old Herald Bulletin forum.  You would post something about Obama, someone like Kent would come along and prove it wrong and you would continue to post it over and over and over again.  Continuing to spread information that has been proven to you is false is lying.

you are full of crap!........I spread my opinions........I NEVER claimed to be a journalist ... DUDE!...grow up.....this is a forum with peoples opinions....I'm not out to prove ANYTHING!......things ARE what they ARE....and, there is a lot of things going on, that leads me to think there are serious motives of moving us towards socialism...and I don't like it...and neither does millions of other Americans.

 :confused: :confused: :confused:

no offense HENRY. BUT, how can someone that found  autocrats who were abusive of power OK for ruining our great nation? then accuse the following administration that is attempting to unravel the jigsaw mosaic socialist and anti-AMERICAN AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THEIR TERM?

SERIOUSLY! I AM CONFUSED!
don carter

Quote from: incognito on February 20, 2009, 04:52:03 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused:

no offense HENRY. BUT, how can someone that found  autocrats who were abusive of power OK for ruining our great nation? then accuse the following administration that is attempting to unravel the jigsaw mosaic socialist and anti-AMERICAN AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THEIR TERM?

SERIOUSLY! I AM CONFUSED!
don carter

I think it is more of a collective effort form Washington for several years....to get where we are right now....

But, in the last few days, with talk of banks being taken control by gov, ... healthcare by gov, radio by gov....what the heck...this stuff is seriously being talked about.....

and, this last bill, to me was a travesty.......I know, I know..Bush spent billions in Iraq....that is an issue for another topic....I think, socialism is at our heels...in full force.

btw, don....no offence taken... :)

THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THE STIMPAC IS; THE TOXIC MORTGAGES SHOULD BE BETWEEN THE BANK THAT ACCEPTED THE APPLICATIONS AND THE INDIVIDUALS WHO EXPECTED TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. UNDER THE STIMPAC PEOPLE WILL STILL BE IN HOMES THEY ARE EVENTUALLY GOING TO LOSE ANYWAY. IN MY MIND THAT IS THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD MONEY. THE WIN LOSE IS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE BALANCE. THE BANKS THAT WROTE THE UNSECURED/IDIOT GREED  LOANS SHOULD EAT OR MODIFY THE MORTGAGES AND EAT THE LOSS THEY PERPETRATED THE FRAUD TO OBTAIN.

IT IS TIME, IN MY MIND, FOR SOME BANKS TO GO UNDER/BANKRUPT. THEY ROBBED THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AND ARE ATTEMPTING TO ROB US AGAIN TO MAKE THEMSELVES WHOLE.

IF I HAD STOLEN ONLY .000001% THE TRUST AND MONEY FROM THE BANKS AS THE HAVE DEFRAUDED FROM THE PUBLIC. I WOULD ALREADY BE IN PRISON AND WOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED OUT.

WEALTHY/RICH=STILL ABOVE THE LAW AND RETRIBUTION

POOR/NEEDY/MIDDLE CLASS=PRISON INCARCERATION DAMN NEAR IMMEDIATELY. IF IT IS A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION. IT IS A FEDERAL CRIME!

MONEY IS ALLOWED TO ROB US. THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IS DEAD FOR STEALING FROM MONEY! NOW! AIN'T THAT AMERICA. HOME OF DEMOCRACY and equal rights and freedoms? depends on how much money you have!

don carter
ANDERSON,INDIANA

Quote from: Palehorse on February 20, 2009, 03:02:11 PM
I didn't realize you were his personal physician! I stand corrected!  :rolleyes:

You said he did have it so are you privy to info I haven't seen?

Quote from: me on February 20, 2009, 07:29:49 PM
You said he did have it so are you privy to info I haven't seen?

An educated assumption based upon the fact the disease is progressive. If he had it, he had it for many years before it became outright obvious he was as crazy as a poophouse rat!  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Palehorse on February 20, 2009, 09:51:49 PM
An educated assumption based upon the fact the disease is progressive. If he had it, he had it for many years before it became outright obvious he was as crazy as a poophouse rat!  :rolleyes:

Ah, but you know what they say about assuming don't ya?   :wink:

Quote from: me on February 20, 2009, 09:53:32 PM
Ah, but you know what they say about assuming don't ya?   :wink:

Okay. It is an educated assumption based upon fact!

Experts have documented common patterns of symptom progression that occur in many individuals with Alzheimer's disease and developed several methods of "staging" based on these patterns.

Staging systems provide useful frames of reference for understanding how the disease may unfold and for making future plans. But it is important to note that not everyone will experience the same symptoms or progress at the same rate. People with Alzheimer's die an average of four to six years after diagnosis, but the duration of the disease can vary from three to 20 years.

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_stages_of_alzheimers.asp (http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_stages_of_alzheimers.asp)

I know what you're saying but I do think it would have been diagnosed sooner had it been in a stage advanced enough to have affected him while he was in office. 

Quote from: me on February 20, 2009, 10:03:48 PM
I know what you're saying but I do think it would have been diagnosed sooner had it been in a stage advanced enough to have affected him while he was in office.

If you have so much faith that that would have been the case, then why do you not have faith in the current administration after 30 days now?

Quote from: Palehorse on February 21, 2009, 09:45:11 AM
If you have so much faith that that would have been the case, then why do you not have faith in the current administration after 30 days now?

It's not the administration I don't have faith in it's Congress.  I'm hoping he don't let them run roughshod over him.  I can see him trying to toughen up a little lets just hope he don't wait too long to get as tough as he is going to need to be.

Quote from: Palehorse on February 20, 2009, 09:51:49 PM
An educated assumption based upon the fact the disease is progressive. If he had it, he had it for many years before it became outright obvious he was as crazy as a poophouse rat!  :rolleyes:

We need that crazy ol poophouse rat about right now!!....Obama needs to look back at how HE handled these difficult times and try to mimic them....at least not do the opposite.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 20, 2009, 04:38:59 PM
you are full of crap!........I spread my opinions........I NEVER claimed to be a journalist ... DUDE!...grow up.....this is a forum with peoples opinions....I'm not out to prove ANYTHING!......things ARE what they ARE....and, there is a lot of things going on, that leads me to think there are serious motives of moving us towards socialism...and I don't like it...and neither does millions of other Americans.

You don't even know what socialism is.

Quote from: Palehorse on February 20, 2009, 09:58:15 PM
Okay. It is an educated assumption based upon fact!

Lets call it "logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 09:34:39 AM
We need that crazy ol poophouse rat about right now!!....Obama needs to look back at how HE handled these difficult times and try to mimic them....at least not do the opposite.

Not!  Reaganomics was a joke.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 10:16:36 AM
You don't even know what socialism is.

Okay, let me rephrase....we are moving towards MORE Government control of our day-to-day lives....and I don't like it.

Such as, National Healthcare...possibly nationalization of our Banks, MORE governmental control over our airwaves...just to name a few

example..........the state with the highest tax rate has the highest deficit...(California )........coincidence?  more government is always a bad thing.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 10:32:07 AM
Okay, let me rephrase....we are moving towards MORE Government control of our day-to-day lives....and I don't like it.

LMAO!  If you don't think the government has absolute control over your life now, you're naive.

QuoteSuch as, National Healthcare...

Universal insurance is not synonymous with national healthcare; you should really read up on how it works elsewhere.

Quote...possibly nationalization of our Banks...

Are they talking about nationalizing the banks or simply assuming a non-controlling interest in them in exchange for giving them taxpayers' money?  Would you rather they just give your money away and get nothing for it?  Conversely, they could just let those banks fail but if they do, you'd better start clearing your desk because all non-critical construction projects will come to a screeching halt and the electrical contracting company who employs you probably won't be needing nearly as many employess.

Quote...MORE governmental control over our airwaves...

Yikes!  Now that is scary!  The next thing you know, there'll be some government agency that controls all of the licenses and content and fines people whenever the f-bomb slips out.  They'll probably give it some really official sounding name, too, like the Federal Communications Commission.  I sure hope the president doesn't sign any executive orders allowing them to listen in on our cell phone calls!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 10:43:47 AM
example..........the state with the highest tax rate has the highest deficit...(California )........coincidence?  more government is always a bad thing.

That might be a good argument if California had the highest tax rate but alas, it does not. (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/) (Hint: it's the same as Indiana!)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 10:43:47 AM
...more government is always a bad thing.

I actually generally agree with this but it is not an absolute.  If less government is better, does that mean no government is ideal?

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 11:00:37 AM
I actually generally agree with this but it is not an absolute.  If less government is better, does that mean no government is ideal?

Of course not....but, we are WAY too big, and have been for a very long time.  We need, to return more power and control to the people...not MORE government  (or those elected in washington) control.

I think the founding fathers had a pretty good idea of the powers and responsibilities of the federal government, and drew up the Constitution accordingly, spelling those out in plain English. The problem is, times have changed, and so has the interpretation of the Constitution; neither have been for the better, I fear. An overridingly powerful central government was the Fathers' worst nightmare, and the main cause of the War Between the States.   Patriot Pa

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 10:58:31 AM
That might be a good argument if California had the highest tax rate but alas, it does not. (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/) (Hint: it's the same as Indiana!)

Here's another fun fact: while California does have the highest deficit in dollars, it does not as a percentage of total spending.  Guess who does?  Alaska!  And they have no state income tax so that pretty much blows your theory right out of the water; huh?

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 10:58:31 AM
That might be a good argument if California had the highest tax rate but alas, it does not. (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/) (Hint: it's the same as Indiana!)

Maybe you should try a more recent resource....as of Fiscal Year 2007, California's Top Individual Income Tax Rate is the Highest in the Nation
(http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/15.html)..They also are in the 10 worst business tax climates of 2009 (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22658.html)...ranked 48th (btw, Indian is 14th).....California has the Highest Gas Tax in Nation..

Tax Freedom Day (http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/Image/Tax-Freedom-Day/2008/maplarge.jpg) for California is 4th from the worst....notice the worst states are liberal states....

the bottom line is........MORE taxes does not mean lower deficits...by ANY means... ;)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 12:17:10 PM
Maybe you should try a more recent resource....as of Fiscal Year 2007, California's Top Individual Income Tax Rate is the Highest in the Nation
(http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/15.html)...

I see; you are only comparing the highest possible tax rates, regardless of whether or not anyone or how many actually pay them whereas I am comparing the average taxes actually paid.  So if a state had a tax rate of 150% for anyone making $50 billion a year or more, they would be the state with the highest tax rate; right?  Great way to make a point if you're talking to someone too stupid to know the difference!

Quote...the bottom line is........MORE taxes does not mean lower deficits...by ANY means... ;)

Nor do less taxes; so what's your point?  The only thing you've managed to prove is that there really isn't any absolute relationship between the level of taxation and deficits; again, this defeats what you previously suggested.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 10:54:31 AM
Universal insurance is not synonymous with national healthcare; you should really read up on how it works elsewhere.

I have, and IF there is ANY liberalness in me, I would tend to lean towards this, because it HAS become a huge problem....and since about 60% of our health care is ALREADY funded by the public...I simply do NOT trust government's intervention on free market systems....but, this system is already skewed...I'm cautiously listening to a potential universal solution...but, I hope it is brought to a good debate before it is voted upon, unlike this last stimulus.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 12:32:14 PM
Nor do less taxes; so what's your point?  The only thing you've managed to prove is that there really isn't any absolute relationship between the level of taxation and deficits; again, this defeats what you previously suggested.

Less tax burden on the richest tax payers ususually means MORE revenue generated  (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html) by the top tax payers...

The rich rely on poor people being dumb and gullible enough to believe that...and they are not often disappointed.

Dow falls 251 ... GREAT LEADERSHIP!!...NO consumer confidence!!...you got ONE chance to make a first impression.........and he blew it!!
:no:

The lowest since 1997...

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 05:06:52 PM
Dow falls 251 ... GREAT LEADERSHIP!!...NO consumer confidence!!...you got ONE chance to make a first impression.........and he blew it!!
:no:

The lowest since 1997...

You've been trying to use this ridiculous cause and effect relationship since before the election.  It didn't work then and it doesn't work now.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 24, 2009, 07:36:05 AM
You've been trying to use this ridiculous cause and effect relationship since before the election.  It didn't work then and it doesn't work now.

I'm not TRYING to make something work..........it IS what it IS....Wall Street NEEDS a shot in the arm........and the President is NOT supplying the shot in the are that they NEED.....it is NOT rocket science.

The President's job is to lead, and be the voice of confidence...he has NOT supplied that, at least, not so far.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 24, 2009, 08:04:21 AM
I'm not TRYING to make something work..........it IS what it IS....Wall Street NEEDS a shot in the arm........and the President is NOT supplying the shot in the are that they NEED.....it is NOT rocket science.

The President's job is to lead, and be the voice of confidence...he has NOT supplied that, at least, not so far.

That's because there are too many pessimistic naysayers like yourself making so much noise about that which you do not understand.  You should spend less of your time flapping your gums and more of it listening to or reading the words of people who know what they're talking about.  A good start might be this paper (http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf) from Mark Zandi, Chief Economist for Moody's (who was also one of McCain's chief campaign advisors on the economy).

Quote from: Exterminator on February 24, 2009, 08:51:22 AM
That's because there are too many pessimistic naysayers like yourself making so much noise about that which you do not understand.  You should spend less of your time flapping your gums and more of it listening to or reading the words of people who know what they're talking about.  A good start might be this paper (http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf) from Mark Zandi, Chief Economist for Moody's (who was also one of McCain's chief campaign advisors on the economy).

First of all, I listen to plenty of, BOTH sides.  I work with some pretty staunch Obama supporters.  I hear it EVERYDAY.
Secondly, I read plenty.

I think, likewise of yourself.  Maybe you need to take your tunnel-vision glasses off, and simply LOOK at what is happening.
Listen to what Wall Street is saying...simply watch what the stock market is doing.  THAT is pretty good economy barometer.....when it begins to go back up, our economy will likewise do so.

Below, I have copied and pasted a list of top economists who disagree with Obama's plan.

Hundreds of economist, including Nobel laureates and other prominent scholars, have signed a statement that the Cato Institute has placed in major newspapers across the United States.
 (http://www.cato.org/fiscalreality)
"There is no disagreement that we need action by our government, a recovery plan that will help to jumpstart the economy."— PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA, JANUARY 9 , 2009

With all due respect Mr. President, that is not true.

Notwithstanding reports that all economists are now Keynesians and that we all support a big increase in the burden of government, we do not believe that more government spending is a way to improve economic performance. More government spending by Hoover and Roosevelt did not pull the United States economy out of the Great Depression in the 1930s. More government spending did not solve Japan's "lost decade" in the 1990s. As such, it is a triumph of hope over experience to believe that more government spending will help the U.S. today. To improve the economy, policy makers should focus on reforms that remove impediments to work, saving, investment and production. Lower tax rates and a reduction in the burden of government are the best ways of using fiscal policy to boost growth.

Burton Abrams, Univ. of Delaware
Douglas Adie, Ohio University
Ryan Amacher, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
J.J. Arias, Georgia College & State University
Howard Baetjer, Jr., Towson University
Stacie Beck, Univ. of Delaware
Don Bellante, Univ. of South Florida
James Bennett, George Mason University
Bruce Benson, Florida State University
Sanjai Bhagat, Univ. of Colorado at Boulder
Mark Bils, Univ. of Rochester
Alberto Bisin, New York University
Walter Block, Loyola University New Orleans
Cecil Bohanon, Ball State University
Michele Boldrin, Washington University in St. Louis
Donald Booth, Chapman University
Michael Bordo, Rutgers University
Samuel Bostaph, Univ. of Dallas
Scott Bradford, Brigham Young University
Genevieve Briand, Eastern Washington University
George Brower, Moravian College
James Buchanan, Nobel laureate
Richard Burdekin, Claremont McKenna College
Henry Butler, Northwestern University
William Butos, Trinity College
Peter Calcagno, College of Charleston
Bryan Caplan, George Mason University
Art Carden, Rhodes College
James Cardon, Brigham Young University
Dustin Chambers, Salisbury University
Emily Chamlee-Wright, Beloit College
V.V. Chari, Univ. of Minnesota
Barry Chiswick, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago
Lawrence Cima, John Carroll University
J.R. Clark, Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga
Gian Luca Clementi, New York University
R. Morris Coats, Nicholls State University
John Cochran, Metropolitan State College
John Cochrane, Univ. of Chicago
John Cogan, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
John Coleman, Duke University
Boyd Collier, Tarleton State University
Robert Collinge, Univ. of Texas at San Antonio
Lee Coppock, Univ. of Virginia
Mario Crucini, Vanderbilt University
Christopher Culp, Univ. of Chicago
Kirby Cundiff, Northeastern State University
Antony Davies, Duquesne University
John Dawson, Appalachian State University
Clarence Deitsch, Ball State University
Arthur Diamond, Jr., Univ. of Nebraska at Omaha
John Dobra, Univ. of Nevada, Reno
James Dorn, Towson University
Christopher Douglas, Univ. of Michigan, Flint
Floyd Duncan, Virginia Military Institute
Francis Egan, Trinity College
John Egger, Towson University
Kenneth Elzinga, Univ. of Virginia
Paul Evans, Ohio State University
Eugene Fama, Univ. of Chicago
W. Ken Farr, Georgia College & State University
Hartmut Fischer, Univ. of San Francisco
Fred Foldvary, Santa Clara University
Murray Frank, Univ. of Minnesota
Peter Frank, Wingate University
Timothy Fuerst, Bowling Green State University
B. Delworth Gardner, Brigham Young University
John Garen, Univ. of Kentucky
Rick Geddes, Cornell University
Aaron Gellman, Northwestern University
William Gerdes, Clarke College
Michael Gibbs, Univ. of Chicago
Stephan Gohmann, Univ. of Louisville
Rodolfo Gonzalez, San Jose State University
Richard Gordon, Penn State University
Peter Gordon, Univ. of Southern California
Ernie Goss, Creighton University
Paul Gregory, Univ. of Houston
Earl Grinols, Baylor University
Daniel Gropper, Auburn University
R.W. Hafer, Southern Illinois
University, Edwardsville
Arthur Hall, Univ. of Kansas
Steve Hanke, Johns Hopkins
Stephen Happel, Arizona State University
Frank Hefner, College of Charleston
Ronald Heiner, George Mason University
David Henderson, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
Robert Herren, North Dakota State University
Gailen Hite, Columbia University
Steven Horwitz, St. Lawrence University
John Howe, Univ. of Missouri, Columbia
Jeffrey Hummel, San Jose State University
Bruce Hutchinson, Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga
Brian Jacobsen, Wisconsin Lutheran College
Jason Johnston, Univ. of Pennsylvania
Boyan Jovanovic, New York University
Jonathan Karpoff, Univ. of Washington
Barry Keating, Univ. of Notre Dame
Naveen Khanna, Michigan State University
Nicholas Kiefer, Cornell University
Daniel Klein, George Mason University
Paul Koch, Univ. of Kansas
Narayana Kocherlakota, Univ. of Minnesota
Marek Kolar, Delta College
Roger Koppl, Fairleigh Dickinson University
Kishore Kulkarni, Metropolitan State College of Denver
Deepak Lal, UCLA
George Langelett, South Dakota State University
James Larriviere, Spring Hill College
Robert Lawson, Auburn University
John Levendis, Loyola University New Orleans
David Levine, Washington University in St. Louis
Peter Lewin, Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Dean Lillard, Cornell University
Zheng Liu, Emory University
Alan Lockard, Binghampton University
Edward Lopez, San Jose State University
John Lunn, Hope College
Glenn MacDonald, Washington
University in St. Louis
Michael Marlow, California
Polytechnic State University
Deryl Martin, Tennessee Tech University
Dale Matcheck, Northwood University
Deirdre McCloskey, Univ. of Illinois, Chicago
John McDermott, Univ. of South Carolina
Joseph McGarrity, Univ. of Central Arkansas
Roger Meiners, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
Allan Meltzer, Carnegie Mellon University
John Merrifield, Univ. of Texas at San Antonio
James Miller III, George Mason University
Jeffrey Miron, Harvard University
Thomas Moeller, Texas Christian University
John Moorhouse, Wake Forest University
Andrea Moro, Vanderbilt University
Andrew Morriss, Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Michael Munger, Duke University
Kevin Murphy, Univ. of Southern California
Richard Muth, Emory University
Charles Nelson, Univ. of Washington
Seth Norton, Wheaton College
Lee Ohanian, Univ. of California, Los Angeles
Lydia Ortega, San Jose State University
Evan Osborne, Wright State University
Randall Parker, East Carolina University
Donald Parsons, George Washington University
Sam Peltzman, Univ. of Chicago
Mark Perry, Univ. of Michigan, Flint
Christopher Phelan, Univ. of Minnesota
Gordon Phillips, Univ. of Maryland
Michael Pippenger, Univ. of Alaska, Fairbanks
Tomasz Piskorski, Columbia University
Brennan Platt, Brigham Young University
Joseph Pomykala, Towson University
William Poole, Univ. of Delaware
Barry Poulson, Univ. of Colorado at Boulder
Benjamin Powell, Suffolk University
Edward Prescott, Nobel laureate
Gary Quinlivan, Saint Vincent College
Reza Ramazani, Saint Michael's College
Adriano Rampini, Duke University
Eric Rasmusen, Indiana University
Mario Rizzo, New York University
Richard Roll, Univ. of California, Los Angeles
Robert Rossana, Wayne State University
James Roumasset, Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa
John Rowe, Univ. of South Florida
Charles Rowley, George Mason University
Juan Rubio-Ramirez, Duke University
Roy Ruffin, Univ. of Houston
Kevin Salyer, Univ. of California, Davis
Pavel Savor, Univ. of Pennsylvania
Ronald Schmidt, Univ. of Rochester
Carlos Seiglie, Rutgers University
William Shughart II, Univ. of Mississippi
Charles Skipton, Univ. of Tampa
James Smith, Western Carolina University
Vernon Smith, Nobel laureate
Lawrence Southwick, Jr., Univ. at Buffalo
Dean Stansel, Florida Gulf Coast University
Houston Stokes, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago
Brian Strow, Western Kentucky University
Shirley Svorny, California State
University, Northridge
John Tatom, Indiana State University
Wade Thomas, State University of New York at Oneonta
Henry Thompson, Auburn University
Alex Tokarev, The King's College
Edward Tower, Duke University
Leo Troy, Rutgers University
David Tuerck, Suffolk University
Charlotte Twight, Boise State University
Kamal Upadhyaya, Univ. of New Haven
Charles Upton, Kent State University
T. Norman Van Cott, Ball State University
Richard Vedder, Ohio University
Richard Wagner, George Mason University
Douglas M. Walker, College of Charleston
Douglas O. Walker, Regent University
Christopher Westley, Jacksonville State University
Lawrence White, Univ. of Missouri at St. Louis
Walter Williams, George Mason University
Doug Wills, Univ. of Washington Tacoma
Dennis Wilson, Western Kentucky University
Gary Wolfram, Hillsdale College
Huizhong Zhou, Western Michigan University
Additional economists who have signed the statement

Lee Adkins, Oklahoma State University
William Albrecht, Univ. of Iowa
Donald Alexander, Western Michigan University
Geoffrey Andron, Austin Community College
Nathan Ashby, Univ. of Texas at El Paso
George Averitt, Purdue North Central University
Charles Baird, California State University, East Bay
Timothy Bastian, Creighton University
Joe Bell, Missouri State University, Springfield
John Bethune, Barton College
Robert Bise, Orange Coast College
Karl Borden, University of Nebraska
Donald Boudreaux, George Mason University
Ivan Brick, Rutgers University
Phil Bryson, Brigham Young University
Richard Burkhauser, Cornell University
Edwin Burton, Univ. of Virginia
Jim Butkiewicz, Univ. of Delaware
Richard Cebula, Armstrong Atlantic State University
Don Chance, Louisiana State University
Robert Chatfield, Univ. of Nevada, Las Vegas
Lloyd Cohen, George Mason University
Peter Colwell, Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Michael Connolly, Univ. of Miami
Jim Couch, Univ. of North Alabama
Eleanor Craig, Univ. of Delaware
Michael Daniels, Columbus State University
A. Edward Day, Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Stephen Dempsey, Univ. of Vermont
Allan DeSerpa, Arizona State University
William Dewald, Ohio State University
Jeff Dorfman, Univ. of Georgia
Lanny Ebenstein, Univ. of California, Santa Barbara
Michael Erickson, The College of Idaho
Jack Estill, San Jose State University
Dorla Evans, Univ. of Alabama in Huntsville
Frank Falero, California State University, Bakersfield
Daniel Feenberg, National Bureau of Economic Research
Eric Fisher, California Polytechnic State University
Arthur Fleisher, Metropolitan State College of Denver
William Ford, Middle Tennessee State University
Ralph Frasca, Univ. of Dayton
Joseph Giacalone, St. John's University
Adam Gifford, California State Unviersity, Northridge
Otis Gilley, Louisiana Tech University
J. Edward Graham, University of North Carolina at Wilmington
Richard Grant, Lipscomb University
Gauri-Shankar Guha, Arkansas State University
Darren Gulla, Univ. of Kentucky
Dennis Halcoussis, California State University, Northridge
Richard Hart, Miami University
James Hartley, Mount Holyoke College
Thomas Hazlett, George Mason University
Scott Hein, Texas Tech University
Bradley Hobbs, Florida Gulf Coast University
John Hoehn, Michigan State University
Daniel Houser, George Mason University
Thomas Howard, University of Denver
Chris Hughen, Univ. of Denver
Marcus Ingram, Univ. of Tampa
Joseph Jadlow, Oklahoma State University
Sherry Jarrell, Wake Forest University
Scott Kelly, Albany State University
Carrie Kerekes, Florida Gulf Coast University
Robert Krol, California State University, Northridge
James Kurre, Penn State Erie
Tom Lehman, Indiana Wesleyan University
W. Cris Lewis, Utah State University
Stan Liebowitz, Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Anthony Losasso, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago
John Lott, Jr., Univ. of Maryland
Keith Malone, Univ. of North Alabama
Henry Manne, George Mason University
Richard Marcus, Univ. of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
James Barney Marsh, University of Hawaii at Manoa
Timothy Mathews, Kennesaw State University
John Matsusaka, Univ. of Southern California
Thomas Mayor, Univ. of Houston
John McConnell, Purdue University
W. Douglas McMillin, Louisiana State University
Mario Miranda, The Ohio State University
Ed Miseta, Penn State Erie
James Moncur, Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa
Charles Moss, Univ. of Florida
Tim Muris, George Mason University
John Murray, Univ. of Toledo
David Mustard, Univ. of Georgia
Steven Myers, Univ. of Akron
Dhananjay Nanda, University of Miami
Stephen Parente, Univ. of Minnesota
Allen Parkman, Univ. of New Mexico
Douglas Patterson, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and University
Timothy Perri, Appalachian State University
Mark Pingle, Univ. of Nevada, Reno
Ivan Pongracic, Hillsdale College
Robert Prati, East Carolina University
Richard Rawlins, Missouri Southern State University
Thomas Rhee, California State University, Long Beach
Christine Ries, Georgia Institute of Technology
Nancy Roberts, Arizona State University
Larry Ross, Univ. of Alaska Anchorage
Timothy Roth, Univ. of Texas at El Paso
Atulya Sarin, Santa Clara University
Thomas Saving, Texas A&M University
Eric Schansberg, Indiana University Southeast
John Seater, North Carolina University
Alan Shapiro, Univ. of Southern California
Thomas Simmons, Greenfield Community College
W. James Smith, University of Colorado Denver
Frank Spreng, McKendree University
Judith Staley Brenneke, John Carroll University
John E. Stapleford, Eastern University
Courtenay Stone, Ball State University
Avanidhar Subrahmanyam, UCLA
Scott Sumner, Bentley University
Clifford Thies, Shenandoah University
William Trumbull, West Virginia University
A. Sinan Unur, Cornell University
Randall Valentine, Georgia Southwestern State University
Gustavo Ventura, Univ. of Iowa
Marc Weidenmier, Claremont McKenna College
Robert Whaples, Wake Forest University
Gene Wunder, Washburn University
John Zdanowicz, Florida International University
Jerry Zimmerman, Univ. of Rochester
Joseph Zoric, Franciscan University of Steubenville

It might help if the wussies on Wall St. would not keep furiously buying and selling so they can keep 35 million and not lose a million or two (as if it made a difference with that kind of safety net).

Everybody has the same computer program that tells them when to buy and sell. The lemmings drag everyone with them as they scramble about like a box of roaches searching for the way out.

BTW, EX...I will read your link.  I have printed it off, and I WILL read if time permits on my lunch break.

Thanks

I saw this and thought it  described the stimulus biil quite well.

Shortly after class, an economics student approaches his economics professor and says, "I don't understand this stimulus bill. Can you explain it to me?"
The professor replied, "I don't have any time to explain it at my office, but if you come over to my house on Saturday and help me with my weekend project, I'll be glad to explain it to you." The student
agreed.
At the agreed-upon time, the student showed up at the professor's house. The professor stated that the weekend project involved his backyard pool.
They both went out back to the pool, and the professor handed the student a bucket. Demonstrating with his own bucket, the professor said, "First, go over to the deep end, and fill your bucket with
as much water as you can." The student did as he was instructed.
The professor then continued, "Follow me over to the shallow end, and then dump all the water from your bucket into it." The student was naturally confused, but did as he was told.
The professor then explained they were going to do this many more times, and began walking back to the deep end of the pool.
The confused student asked, "Excuse me, but why are we doing this?"
The professor matter-of-factly stated that he was trying to make the shallow end much deeper.
The student didn't think the economics professor was serious, but figured that he would find out the real story soon enough.
However, after the 6th trip between the shallow end and the deep end, the student began to become worried that his economics professor had gone mad. The student finally replied, "All we're doing is
wasting valuable time and effort on unproductive pursuits. Even worse, when this process is all over, everything will be at the same level it was before, so all you'll really have accomplished is the destruction of what could have been truly productive action!"
The professor put down his bucket and replied with a smile, "Congratulations. You now understand the stimulus bill."

I see that you couldn't be bothered to read the paper whose link I posted...typical.  I've seen the Cato Institute's ad and one must wonder why, with such a wealth of economic talent at hand, they offer little in the way of constructive solutions and completely avoid the queation of how it's possible to cut taxes for people who aren't working and therefore aren't paying any.  Another aspect of this that is typical is that you took this single page ad at face value.  The likelihood is that the named economists are not quite as strongly against the stimulus as the ad suggests and the reality reflects that:

From buzzflash.com: (http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/603)

I was curious where the undersigned came from, so I called and spoke with a few of them. The first professor I talked to was George Langelett at South Dakota State University.

"Sometimes we sign off on these things," Langelett said, adding that he hadn't seen the final ad. I read him the text of the ad and he filled me in on his unsurprisingly more nuanced point of view. To him, it's more about the fundamentals of our economy.

"The system is broken," he said. "We need to solve the underlying issues."

Langelett said the way troubled assets are priced and the fact that many aren't listed on the balance sheets of the banks that hold them are two huge problems. Until we make the system more transparent, he said, we're "throwing money down a rat hole."

As for the stimulus package itself, he said it may give the country some temporary relief and some time to figure out how to fix that broken system.

"In some ways it's a Band-Aid," Langelett said. "We're trying to give states and companies a lifeline and more time."

Others who signed the ad didn't necessary agree with the Cato Institute's basic idea that the stimulus should not include government spending.

Kishore Kulkarni at the University of Denver said he didn't think government-directed stimulus was all bad. He just thought the stimulus package passed in the House didn't have enough tax cuts. It's estimated that the House bill is approximately 30 percent tax cuts, while he'd like to see something closer to a 50/50 split.

In fact, the more I talked to these economists, the more nuanced the story became.

Gary Quinlivan, with the Alex G. McKenna School of Business, Economics and Government at St. Vincent College in Pennsylvania, said that all economists agree that the government should spend something on education and infrastructure; it's just "a matter of degree." Quinlivan's main concern with the current stimulus bill is the high probability of pork-barrel spending. "I don't think it will be targeted enough ... a lot of that is going to go to special interests," Quinlivan said.

Not that his community will be left in the dust. "I guarantee our area will do well, because we've got John Murtha," he said wryly, referring to his Congressman's reputation for bringing home the bacon.

J.J. Arias at Georgia College & State University is another professor who signed onto the ad. He said government spending is "more acceptable" to him if it is "timely, targeted and temporary," as Obama's economic advisor Larry Summers promised Congress.

It's never black and white, Henry, but endless shades of gray.

Quote from: Mr442 on February 24, 2009, 09:54:25 AM
I saw this and thought it  described the stimulus biil quite well.

Or not at all... :rolleyes:

Ex --

What you said. My post was essentially the same, just a bit more biting and obscure. (What with the references to lemmings and roaches and all. Shew.)

Ex, I WILL read your link....I have already.  and it is interesting, I will say....I find it funny you challange me at taking my STRONG resource for cato at face value, but you ARE taking your link at face value.....

the bottom line for me is.......and many, many agree, .... you CANNOT spend your way into prosperiety....and TAX cuts and reducing the burden of government are proven ways to boost growth.

Quote from: Mr442 on February 24, 2009, 09:54:25 AM
I saw this and thought it  described the stimulus biil quite well.

Shortly after class, an economics student approaches his economics professor and says, "I don't understand this stimulus bill. Can you explain it to me?"
The professor replied, "I don't have any time to explain it at my office, but if you come over to my house on Saturday and help me with my weekend project, I'll be glad to explain it to you." The student
agreed.
At the agreed-upon time, the student showed up at the professor's house. The professor stated that the weekend project involved his backyard pool.
They both went out back to the pool, and the professor handed the student a bucket. Demonstrating with his own bucket, the professor said, "First, go over to the deep end, and fill your bucket with
as much water as you can." The student did as he was instructed.
The professor then continued, "Follow me over to the shallow end, and then dump all the water from your bucket into it." The student was naturally confused, but did as he was told.
The professor then explained they were going to do this many more times, and began walking back to the deep end of the pool.
The confused student asked, "Excuse me, but why are we doing this?"
The professor matter-of-factly stated that he was trying to make the shallow end much deeper.
The student didn't think the economics professor was serious, but figured that he would find out the real story soon enough.
However, after the 6th trip between the shallow end and the deep end, the student began to become worried that his economics professor had gone mad. The student finally replied, "All we're doing is
wasting valuable time and effort on unproductive pursuits. Even worse, when this process is all over, everything will be at the same level it was before, so all you'll really have accomplished is the destruction of what could have been truly productive action!"
The professor put down his bucket and replied with a smile, "Congratulations. You now understand the stimulus bill."

Great story, Olds buddy! I would add a drainage ditch labeled "Gov't", and every third bucket has to be dumped into it.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 24, 2009, 10:03:11 AM
Ex, I WILL read your link....I have already.  and it is interesting, I will say....I find it funny you challange me at taking my STRONG resource for cato at face value, but you ARE taking your link at face value.....

Not at all, my friend, I scrutinize everything thoroughly before offering it for opinion.

Quote...the bottom line for me is.......and many, many agree, .... you CANNOT spend your way into prosperiety...

No, but you can prevent a total collapse which is what we will see if the government doesn't address a few key issues facing our economy.

Quote...and TAX cuts and reducing the burden of government are proven ways to boost growth.

Both are ultimately good things in an otherwise robust economy but that is not what we have.

I don't agree with everything he says here but this article offers some food for thought (keep in mind while reading it that it was written during Bush's tenure): http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/25/beaton.html

Quote from: Exterminator on February 24, 2009, 10:19:55 AM
I don't agree with everything he says here but this article offers some food for thought (keep in mind while reading it that it was written during Bush's tenure): http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/25/beaton.html

again, it is just an opinion, not backed by any facts.....I can link you to one where it is backed by some numbers that say the opposite of what this man claims..econ 101 (http://www.businessandmedia.org/commentary/2006/com20060111.asp)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 24, 2009, 12:26:43 PM
again, it is just an opinion, not backed by any facts.....I can link you to one where it is backed by some numbers that say the opposite of what this man claims..econ 101 (http://www.businessandmedia.org/commentary/2006/com20060111.asp)

Bookmarked. Excellent common-sense article, Henry.

Here's a companion: http://www.jim.com/econ/contents.html (http://www.jim.com/econ/contents.html)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 24, 2009, 12:26:43 PM
again, it is just an opinion, not backed by any facts.....I can link you to one where it is backed by some numbers that say the opposite of what this man claims..econ 101 (http://www.businessandmedia.org/commentary/2006/com20060111.asp)

LMMFAO!  I'll bet this stooge wishes he could've seen the eventual meltdown of our economy in a crystal ball before he wrote this!  I appreciate that people like you weren't quite good enough at math to have avoided being taken in by this ruse but what I fail to understand is how, given the tax cuts enacted by the Bush administration (which are still intact, by the way) and the results we are seeing now, you still come to the conclusion that this is a winning strategy.  Are you so wrapped up in ideology that reality eludes you?

Quote from: Exterminator on February 24, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
LMMFAO!  I'll bet this stooge wishes he could've seen the eventual meltdown of our economy in a crystal ball before he wrote this!  I appreciate that people like you weren't quite good enough at math to have avoided being taken in by this ruse but what I fail to understand is how, given the tax cuts enacted by the Bush administration (which are still intact, by the way) and the results we are seeing now, you still come to the conclusion that this is a winning strategy.  Are you so wrapped up in ideology that reality eludes you?

First of all, the Bush Tax cuts WAS working, until the housing market came to a head, along with Auto Bailouts and Bank Bailouts..........his tax cuts had NOTHING to do with the current situation....see Barney Frank for further explanation...

I think, we have reached a point of unprecedented times....I think, we need to suspend capital taxes on ALL business' for a set amount of time and suspend federal taxes form employee's payroll to all federal tax paying workers for the summer...THAT would STIMULATE and promote consumer confidence....it would END this recession quickly.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 24, 2009, 01:37:43 PM
First of all, the Bush Tax cuts WAS working, until the housing market came to a head, along with Auto Bailouts and Bank Bailouts..........his tax cuts had NOTHING to do with the current situation....see Barney Frank for further explanation...

LMAO!  Sure blame whatever democrat you can find even if he isn't responsible.  No, the Bush tax cuts were not working and if they were the panacea you claim, the other situations wouldn't have even been possible.  Tax cuts without associated cuts in spending are nothing more than the government taking your money via devaluation of the currency rather than directly out of your hand.

QuoteI think, we have reached a point of unprecedented times....I think, we need to suspend capital taxes on ALL business' for a set amount of time and suspend federal taxes form employee's payroll to all federal tax paying workers for the summer...THAT would STIMULATE and promote consumer confidence....it would END this recession quickly.

Ok, let's put your assertion into practice; shall we?  Let's say we cut GM's taxes by several billion dollars so now GM has several billion more dollars to spend and, following your logic, that means they will hire more people; correct?  How is that different from simply giving GM several billion dollars which we have recently done?  Doesn't either action result in GM having the same amount of money?  How many people are they hiring as a result of that infusion of cash?  What's that?  They're laying off tens of thousands more?  How can that be?  :confused:

well, the Bush tax cuts created millions private sector jobs and had unemployment rate at 4.6%....that with the recession he inherited, along with 9/11, a war AND Katrina...........

and it really is not hard to see where Barney played a huge hand in forcing banks into giving loans to people that SHOULD not have had loans....

I agree, tax cuts AND cut in spending IS the best for this country no mater how you slice it....

Tax cuts are not just to benefit GM...it is designed to go to ALL business BIG and SMALL...giving MORE capital to create MORE jobs, which in turn creates more customers, which creates more federal revenue being generated via fed taxes.....which creates a sound economy.

jeeeshhh!...why is it you cannot understand this very simply concept?....it has been done before....it DOES work.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 24, 2009, 02:46:02 PM
well, the Bush tax cuts created millions private sector jobs and had unemployment rate at 4.6%....that with the recession he inherited, along with 9/11, a war AND Katrina...........

Garbage.  What you would like to believe is inconsistent with reality for those of us who actually work in the business world.

Quote...and it really is not hard to see where Barney played a huge hand in forcing banks into giving loans to people that SHOULD not have had loans....

Better go do your homework before you make yourself look even more uninformed.

QuoteTax cuts are not just to benefit GM...it is designed to go to ALL business BIG and SMALL...giving MORE capital to create MORE jobs, which in turn creates more customers, which creates more federal revenue being generated via fed taxes.....which creates a sound economy.

If you can't apply an economic principal at the micro level and show consistent results, it doesn't work at the macro level either.

Quotejeeeshhh!...why is it you cannot understand this very simply concept?....it has been done before....it DOES work.

I guess it's just because I'm stupid and that my education and decades of business experience can't compare to the knowledge you've gained reading your right-wing blogs and listening to Rush Limbaugh.  Whatever you do, don't tell my fortune 500 clients that I don't know my shit; I've got them all fooled.   :rolleyes:

Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 10:21:12 AM
Lets call it "logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."

Yeah! What he said!  :smile:

Henry: You haven't had much to say lately, bud. Cat got yer tongue? Or beak? Breakdown on the information superhighway!   :smile:

Quote from: Ma and Pa on March 07, 2009, 03:02:30 PM
Henry: You haven't had much to say lately, bud. Cat got yer tongue? Or beak? Breakdown on the information superhighway!   :smile:

I have learned that SOMETIMES saying nothing and letting the obvious present itself..can sometimes say MORE than any words that I can ever dream up....

and I have been very, very busy lately.....which is a good thing in this day and time...I am stopping in a following everyone....and I'm sure I'll be "RANTING" again VERY soon.. :yes: ;D

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 09, 2009, 08:09:52 AM
I have learned that SOMETIMES saying nothing and letting the obvious present itself..can sometimes say MORE than any words that I can ever dream up....

I doubt it.   :razz:

Quote from: Exterminator on March 09, 2009, 08:17:30 AM
I doubt it.   :razz:

check mate   :razz:

Glad yer still soarin' around.   :)

Barney Frank is an idiot... :rant:

there i feel much better now... :yes:

That's like saying Hitler was a bad man.

yeah!!.. ;D

but sometimes if feels good just to say it....outloud!!!... :yes:

kind of theraputic.... :yes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 16, 2009, 04:41:59 PM
Barney Frank is an idiot... :rant:

there i feel much better now... :yes:

:biggrin:

Not really a rant........I just thought it was funny... ;D

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abkMP58OLUA/SdU8kaPtciI/AAAAAAAAMm4/QiibMwBS56Y/s400/Teleprompter-Obama-Pee.jpg)

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Small minds are easily amused.   :rolleyes:

Quote from: Exterminator on April 23, 2009, 09:57:21 AM
Small minds are easily amused.   :rolleyes:

Awwww what's the matter Ex don't ya like it when the shoe's on the other foot? 

No, it simply isn't funny.

Depends on your point of view and I think it's funny. 

Quote from: Exterminator on April 23, 2009, 12:51:14 PM
No, it simply isn't funny.

You see...:idea3:  Obama relies on a teleprompter for all of his speaches..:rotfl:..and now follow me.....:teach:..the guy runnng the teleprompter, played a joke on him..:rotfl:.and Obama pissed his pants..  :rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl:.....because he was relying on the teleprompter.....:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:......

never mind... :groan:

Quote from: me on April 23, 2009, 01:14:48 PM
Depends on your point of view and I think it's funny.

Like I said, small minds...

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 23, 2009, 09:08:06 AM
Not really a rant........I just thought it was funny... ;D

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_abkMP58OLUA/SdU8kaPtciI/AAAAAAAAMm4/QiibMwBS56Y/s400/Teleprompter-Obama-Pee.jpg)

ROFLMAO!!!!!  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Ummmm..... Mr. President..... you whizzed in your shoe. LMAO!!!

Quote from: Exterminator on April 23, 2009, 12:51:14 PM
No, it simply isn't funny.

Looks like you're odd man out.... everybody else thinks it's hysterical. Maybe, you shouldn't play in Henry's sandbox. :razz:

Quote from: Dexter Morgan on April 23, 2009, 10:16:32 PM

Quote from: Exterminator on April 23, 2009, 12:51:14 PM
No, it simply isn't funny.

Looks like you're odd man out.... everybody else thinks it's hysterical. Maybe, you shouldn't play in Henry's sandbox. :razz:

Everybody else has the sense of humor of a second-grader.   :rolleyes:

At least we have a sense of humor Ex:

(http://images.theweek.com/dir_22/the_week_11341_27.jpg)

heh heh heh!!!

Quote from: mcgonser on April 28, 2009, 08:41:40 AM
At least we have a sense of humor Ex:

Yeah, farts are pretty funny; huh?

 :rotfl:

I think fart humor invokes a level of sophistication best appreciated by those of us at the third-grade level. Snicker, snicker!   :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Quote from: Ma and Pa on April 28, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
I think fart humor invokes a level of sophistication best appreciated by those of us at the third-grade level. Snicker, snicker!   :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

As we age, we learn that the appropriate response to flatulence is to place one's thumb to one's forehead and say, "you ate it!"   :biggrin:

You mean placing a thumb on one side and a finger on the other side of the nose and pinching it together and saying "you ate that" is no longer acceptable?  :eek:

Quote from: me on April 28, 2009, 11:29:29 AM
You mean placing a thumb on one side and a finger on the other side of the nose and pinching it together and saying "you ate that" is no longer acceptable?  :eek:

Not necessary when I fart; my sh!t doesn't stink.   :biggrin:

Ya know, I'm kinda puzzled, but I halfway believe him!   :spooked:

Quote from: Ma and Pa on April 28, 2009, 12:02:35 PM
Ya know, I'm kinda puzzled, but I halfway believe him!   :spooked:

;D...same here... ;D

 :biggrin:

Quote from: Exterminator on April 27, 2009, 09:31:56 AM
Looks like you're odd man out.... everybody else thinks it's hysterical. Maybe, you shouldn't play in Henry's sandbox. :razz:


Everybody else has the sense of humor of a second-grader.   :rolleyes:

A sense of humour is a good thing to have. Makes life better. You used to have one. :yes:

Quote from: Exterminator on April 28, 2009, 11:51:47 AM
Not necessary when I fart; my sh!t doesn't stink.   :biggrin:

Could i have a copy of your diet?

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
Ronald Reagan - August 15, 1986

It is amazing how these words apply today, more than ever...

It sure is.... :yes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 27, 2009, 01:15:19 PM
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
Ronald Reagan - August 15, 1986

It is amazing how these words apply today, more than ever...

Chicken Hawk still ranting?  :biggrin:

Why in the world, are we not building more nuclear power plants?....

Why?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 15, 2009, 09:19:18 AM
Why in the world, are we not building more nuclear power plants?....

Why?

I believe that to be a good question Henry!

Illinois has a boat-load of them, and the cooling lakes provide excellent fishing opportunities as well. . . They provide efficient energy generation, etc.

I think 3 Mile Island scared us though. . .(as it should have).

Quote from: Palehorse on June 15, 2009, 10:01:28 AM
I believe that to be a good question Henry!

Illinois has a boat-load of them, and the cooling lakes provide excellent fishing opportunities as well. . . They provide efficient energy generation, etc.

I think 3 Mile Island scared us though. . .(as it should have).

Chernobyl scared us even more!

But ... how many people have been killed/injured in coal mining accidents? How many people have been killed/injured in nuclear plant accidents?

Quote from: Bo D on June 15, 2009, 10:12:50 AM
Chernobyl scared us even more!

But ... how many people have been killed/injured in coal mining accidents? How many people have been killed/injured in nuclear plant accidents?

We're a bit more advanced than Russia in this area. . . at least we were. . .

Exactly. . .

It would/could create THOUSANDS of jobs and reduce or dependence on foreign fuels...also, it produces NO greenhouse gases...over the last forty years of this production in the Unidted States, not one single fatality has occurred as a result of the operation of a civilian nuclear power plant...

Why is it okay for us to support Iran to get it, but NOT here in the states?

What is the REAL reason why, many liberals do not want it?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 15, 2009, 11:00:42 AM
It would/could create THOUSANDS of jobs and reduce or dependence on foreign fuels...also, it produces NO greenhouse gases...over the last forty years of this production in the Unidted States, not one single fatality has occurred as a result of the operation of a civilian nuclear power plant...

Why is it okay for us to support Iran to get it, but NOT here in the states?

What is the REAL reason why, many liberals do not want it?

Well, actually Indiana has a few but I only know of 1, Turtle Creek, Near T.H. and west of Indy. Actually, Illinois builds them as near to the high deman areas as safely possible.

I'm betting funding is the challenge in Indiana. . . They prolly want state subsidization of construction. . .

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 15, 2009, 11:00:42 AM
What is the REAL reason why, many liberals do not want it?

How about instead of just making up crap to blame on liberals, you actually learn something about the industry and its economics?  You might find that liberals aren't necessarily against nuclear power at all but that it isn't a simple or quick matter to actually build a nuclear plant.  And the next time you start screaming about socialism, expect me to tell you to shut your trap because nuclear power facilities are not economically viable without government funding.

Quote from: Exterminator on June 15, 2009, 11:33:37 AM
How about instead of just making up crap to blame on liberals, you actually learn something about the industry and its economics?  You might find that liberals aren't necessarily against nuclear power at all but that it isn't a simple or quick matter to actually build a nuclear plant.  And the next time you start screaming about socialism, expect me to tell you to shut your trap because nuclear power facilities are not economically viable without government funding.

I have NOT made up any crap......

and IF, we are going to spend our tax dollars to BOOST our economy, THIS would be much better than ANYTHING that I have read or heard that we are doing.....

I never said it was a 'quick or simple fix'....but we got to start somewhere.....it seems to me like the best solution out there.........along with allowing to drill on our own land...IF it is logical.

as far as you telling me to shut my trap..........makes me laugh very hard...and it is only Monday!!.. ;D

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 15, 2009, 11:44:26 AM
I have NOT made up any crap......

LMAO...dude, if it wasn't for the old biddies, you'd be the biggest perveyor of falsehoods on these forums.

Quote...and IF, we are going to spend our tax dollars to BOOST our economy, THIS would be much better than ANYTHING that I have read or heard that we are doing.....

I see...so you think you should be the one to decide when "socialism" is justified and when it's not?

QuoteI never said it was a 'quick or simple fix'....but we got to start somewhere.....it seems to me like the best solution out there.........along with allowing to drill on our own land...

And what makes you think we aren't doing that now?  How long do you think it takes to build a nuclear power plant and when do you think the last one in the U.S. came online?

QuoteIF it is logical.

Like I said, maybe you should learn something about it and decide whether or not you think it's logical before offering an opinion.  I know it's a novel idea to you...

Quote...as far as you telling me to shut my trap..........makes me laugh very hard...and it is only Monday!!.. ;D

Would you prefer, "shut your gash"?

Quote from: Exterminator on June 15, 2009, 11:52:11 AM
LMAO...dude, if it wasn't for the old biddies, you'd be the biggest perveyor of falsehoods on these forums.

I see...so you think you should be the one to decide when "socialism" is justified and when it's not?

And what makes you think we aren't doing that now?  How long do you think it takes to build a nuclear power plant and when do you think the last one in the U.S. came online?

Like I said, maybe you should learn something about it and decide whether or not you think it's logical before offering an opinion.  I know it's a novel idea to you...

Would you prefer, "shut your gash"?

Gash is fine... :)......but, you really do not have a clue to what you are talking about, about half the time.. :no:...and I will not waste more time trying to make you understand, you believe what YOU want to believe, and not listen to what I have to say, other than what YOU want to comprehend, ....you are in a world of your own, aren't you?.. ;)..but anybody who cannot correctly spell purveyor, really should not be trying to give out advice about falsehoods..... :razz:

Yeah, Henry, I'm the one here in a world all his own.   Go with that.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Palehorse on June 15, 2009, 11:05:14 AM
Well, actually Indiana has a few but I only know of 1, Turtle Creek, Near T.H. and west of Indy. Actually, Illinois builds them as near to the high demand areas as safely possible.

I'm betting funding is the challenge in Indiana. . . They prolly want state subsidization of construction. . .

It appears I was mistaken surrounding Turtle Creek being a nuclear generation site. They are hydro from what I can determine. . . I think Indiana only has one????

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/page/nuc_generation/gensum.html (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/page/nuc_generation/gensum.html)

Make that none. . . Here's a listing of capacity (MWe) for each state that has the capacity to generate nuke power: (Illinois leads the pack)

ARIZONA   3,872
ARKANSAS   1,824
CALIFORNIA 4,390
CONNECTICUT 2,037
FLORIDA   3,902
GEORGIA   4,060
ILLINOIS   11,379
IOWA   581
KANSAS   1,166
LOUISIANA   2,119
MARYLAND   1,735
MASSACHUSETTS 685
MICHIGAN   4,006
MINNESOTA 1,668
MISSISSIPPI 1,266
MISSOURI   1,190
NEBRASKA   1,242
NEW HAMPSHIRE 1,244
NEW JERSEY 3,984
NEW YORK    5,156
NORTH CAROLINA 4,975
OHIO   2,120
PENNSYLVANIA 9,268
SOUTH CAROLINA 6,472
TENNESSEE 3,398
TEXAS   4,860
VERMONT   620
VIRGINIA   3,432
WASHINGTON 1,131
WISCONSIN 1,582

The stimulus plan is a disaster......more at eleven!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 16, 2009, 10:45:41 AM
The stimulus plan is a disaster......more at eleven!

just since obama, or was it a disaster before... when it was bush?  and it was no accountability at all, just throw money?

just askin'!

:P

miss ya hank, look me up!

Quote from: awol on June 16, 2009, 05:28:03 PM
just since obama, or was it a disaster before... when it was bush?  and it was no accountability at all, just throw money?

just askin'!

:P

miss ya hank, look me up!

If it was being done with no accountability why didn't Obama change it before doling out more?  Bush only doled out half of the original amount of TARP for the first round Obama has been doing it since. Would it not have been smarter on his part to fix it first and then continue on?  At this point it is Obama's mess not Bush's.

as of the last, seven years.....there are .... NO indications of Global Warming..... :no:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2009, 10:52:50 AM
as of the last, seven years.....there are .... NO indications of Global Warming..... :no:

Source?

Quote from: Exterminator on June 29, 2009, 11:01:50 AM
Source?

Henry's rant

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2009, 11:02:35 AM
Henry's rant

Henry's rant = lies?

Quote from: Exterminator on June 29, 2009, 11:03:23 AM
Henry's rant = lies?

Oceans are cooling according to NASA
(http://www.examiner.com/x-1586-Baltimore-Weather-Examiner~y2009m1d21-Oceans-are-cooling-according-to-NASA)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2009, 11:16:16 AM
Oceans are cooling according to NASA
(http://www.examiner.com/x-1586-Baltimore-Weather-Examiner~y2009m1d21-Oceans-are-cooling-according-to-NASA)

I know this'll be hard for you to grasp, Henry, but I'll try to keep it simple for you.  If you take a can of soda at room temperature and pour it in a glass, when you add ice to it, does it get cooler or warmer when the ice melts?  That's pretty much what happens with the oceans as well when the ice at the poles melts.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Exterminator on June 29, 2009, 11:20:03 AM
I know this'll be hard for you to grasp, Henry, but I'll try to keep it simple for you.  If you take a can of soda at room temperature and pour it in a glass, when you add ice to it, does it get cooler or warmer when the ice melts?  That's pretty much what happens with the oceans as well when the ice at the poles melts.  :rolleyes:

The absorption of heat by melting ice is so small that even if it were to quadruple, the impact on ocean heat would be miniscule (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/06/the-global-warming-hypothesis-and-ocean-heat/)......

You need to scrutinize your sources better...using people like William DiPuccio illustrates that you aren't really interested in any real research but only in proving what you already believe to be true.  If your choice is to remain ignorant, you've chosen a good strategy but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.  Can you find a reputable source?

Quote from: Exterminator on June 29, 2009, 12:06:42 PM
You need to scrutinize your sources better...using people like William DiPuccio illustrates that you aren't really interested in any real research but only in proving what you already believe to be true.  If your choice is to remain ignorant, you've chosen a good strategy but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.  Can you find a reputable source?

i am through for the day.....this is always your response, that others are not up to speed, because you do not trust any source that does not line up with yours.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2009, 12:16:06 PM
i am through for the day.....this is always your response, that others are not up to speed, because you do not trust any source that does not line up with yours.

Research him yourself and then come back and tell the class whether or not you think he is a source without an agenda.

And for the record, you are not up to speed but hey, you're the one crankin' out the kids who'll have to live with the consequences if you're wrong; not me.

 :lipsrsealed2:

My rant..............

What is real and what is not?   :confused:

Do words mean anything anymore?   :confused:

Is life becoming so cynical, that humor and truthful opinions, can no longer be spoken from the heart?

Or is it that being politically correct, and trying to NOT to offend someone (EVERYONE)...has become cumbersome into relaying one's true thoughts?.....

Or is simply being obnoxious and obtrusive becoming the way things SHOULD BE?.....

In this day and time, can people oppose one another on issues, and STILL find common ground with one another, to put differences of opinions aside for the common good?

I, for one, am concerned...I make NO bones about my dislike about Obama's views and liberal ways.....but, I am honestly glad, and consider it an honor, to live in this country, and able to vote for our leaders....and, I would NEVER, wish any physical harm to Obama or those who share similar views.

It seems like we are in a time, where political and religious views have become SO radical, that there are NO common ground anymore, so at the end of the day, we ALL get along.  There was the Clinton haters, who was so obsessed with hating him, that it spawned haters of GWB, and that spawned more haters of Obama...left hates right and right hates left.....hate, hate, hate....dirty politics and smear tactics IS the norm and the way of our media.........finding the real truth, is a mater of choice.
Sources can be found to support EVERY view of ones opinion.

I do not hate Obama...I dislike his ideology.
I do not hate non Christians....I simply, full hearted believe that there is a God, and His word is given to us, vie the Bible.
I do not hate Gays....I dislike the lifestyle, as I do anyone who cheats on their spouses.
I do not hate people who choose to have abortions....I simply believe there is more at stake than, just a choice.

This is just my rant of the day..........I am tired of HATE!!!
I love my God, my family, my friends (including my forum buddies)....I love this country, and everything that it stands for, despite who is in control in washington....I think, there are things out there much bigger than politics........and much, much bigger than HATE. :rant:

nice rant!

the trouble with "common good" is that it's not so common anymore...

what one sees as good, the other vehemently opposes as he would the source of all evil.

truth falls by the wayside as experts sell their legitimacy to the highest bidder from either side, until all we are left with are differing opinions.

and dammit!  awol's rants are gone!

As I watched the press conference last night, all I could see was Obama, a second year senator, a community organizer, standing up in front of the Nation, telling us WHAT HE wants.....how did this happen?....how is it that a guy, who is as little experience as he does, end up being President of the United States.....especially during time like this?........I say if it was NOT for people like Oprah, who adored him, and the media, who adored him....he would be a third year senator trying desperately to be reelected to serve a second term.

Oh, I know Exterminator....We lost; get over it.... :razz:.....it is just amazing to me, how apathetic the people of this country was before this election........I do think the tide is going to turn BACK to the right a tad...and in the long run, we will be okay.....

Hey, this is MY rant......and while I'm on it......why is it when spending is brought up about the vast amount that is being done now with congress........all I hear is ... "well it was okay with the right when Bush was doing it".....it is/was NEVER okay to spend, spend, spend......without ways to pay for things....NEVER.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 01:07:27 PM
As I watched the press conference last night, all I could see was Obama, a second year senator, a community organizer, standing up in front of the Nation, telling us WHAT HE wants.....how did this happen?....how is it that a guy, who is as little experience as he does, end up being President of the United States.....especially during time like this?

The same way a guy like you who has no experience whatsoever, no education and seriously questionable literacy skills is allowed a podium like this forum on which to express his misguided views.

QuoteOh, I know Exterminator....We lost; get over it...

Correct.

Quote...it is just amazing to me, how apathetic the people of this country was before this election...

Actually, they weren't apathetic at all...people turned out to vote in record numbers to insure that those who say things like 'people was' didn't get to select another president.

 :rolleyes:

Obama: Health Insurance Mandate No Tax Increase
(http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=8621730)

He told CBS' "Face the Nation" that he will keep his pledge not to raise taxes on families earning up to $250,000, and that much of the final bill — hundreds of billions of dollars over the next 10 years — can be achieved from savings within the current system.

George Stephanopoulos challanges Obama on Tax Increase... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFxomW3RqYY&feature=related)

But a Democratic staff description of Sen. Max Baucus' bill calls the proposed fines an "excise tax." Penalties of up to $950 for individuals and $3,800 for families would be imposed on those who don't get coverage.

this is a basic lie.... :yes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 22, 2009, 01:26:08 PM
this is a basic lie.... :yes:

Huh; look who is suddenly the purveyor of "truth".   :razz:

Quote from: Exterminator on September 22, 2009, 01:45:29 PM
Huh; look who is suddenly the purveyor of "truth".   :razz:

yeah, yeah....

the fact is ..... Obama is lying.  AND THIS is an example of why people are getting mad....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 22, 2009, 01:50:45 PM
yeah, yeah....

the fact is ..... Obama is lying.  AND THIS is an example of why people are getting mad....

I'm not mad.

the term "affordable housing" was used and implemented in the 90's.................NOW, the term "affordable healthcare" is being used and in the progress of being implemented........we have SEEN first hand what the results were, of the "affordable housing" fiasco that our government, just KNEW was the right thing to do.........I STILL believe, that we have to find OTHER options, than the road we are heading down right now.

"Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Muammar Qaddafi and Vladimir Putin have all praised Barack Obama. When enemies of freedom and democracy praise your president, what are you to think? When you add to this Barack Obama's many previous years of associations and alliances with people who hate America-- Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Father Pfleger, etc.-- at what point do you stop denying the obvious and start to connect the dots?"
Thomas Sowell

I am staying home from work to be with my sick little girl today....and I have been stewing over another post about conservatism.....so, I am putting my thoughts on exactly what conservatism means to me.....this is MY view, It is not my intent to strike up a debate, this is simply me venting my thoughts on this, in my thread.....

but for me it comes down to a set of values that requires a faith of believing in what our forefathers humbly spoke often about.....and for me, accepting that God DID play an important role in developing the documents that set the standards what role or government has residing over this nation.

The fact there are many statements eluding to the dangers of big government, which has been growing and getting more and more out of control for the last several years, but liberals today are pushing this beyond a comprehensive state of mind.....


Thomas Jefferson alone has stated the following.....


"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not". (That is being proposed by the liberals...take away from THOSE who work hard from their money and give it to those who do not...)


"Most bad government has grown out of too much government"..."I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive".


"I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious". (and that was over 200 years ago...can you imagine what he would bethinking NOW?)


And this one really strikes a chord with me...."Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have" ... "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases".


"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time,and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny"..


And this is what drives it home for me......"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."


For me, I have found that I should put my trust in God, not government, and to never confuse the two. I see conservatism as being the purest form of opportunity and allowing us, as Americans, the ability to pursue and accomplish success and happiness....and, for me, putting God first and foremost, is absolute, and not negotiable.


And, while I am getting all sappy, I honestly believe, that the greatness of this country is not in the power of the government, but in the goodness of the people and as a conservative, I have a trust in the people to make their own decisions and to be able to go after their own dreams, not to be hindered by GOVERNMENT....


Conservatives, want to let the entrepreneurs of this country not be constricted by government, but allow them to utilize their expertise to generate new jobs and ideas...that is what made this country...but a liberal government wants to punish those very people....


Conservatives want to be able to choose the best education for their kids....liberals want government to dictate WHAT kids are being taught.


Conservatives want the strongest and most capable military in the world....believing in peace through strength...I believe that evil DOES exist, and we have to be prepared to fight off this evil, for it wants nothing more than our existence to cease.....liberals, want to cut spending on military and believe we can be one big happy family...that evil will go away, if we can compromise with them...


I also believe that as American citizens, it is our place to take care of the "least of these" according to the Bible....not by government means, but by neighbor helping neighbor....this was always the way it was, BEFORE those in Washington decided that THEY knew better....and,honestly they have not made things any better...we have created a more dependent group of citizens......and the people of this country have neglected their duties and passed it on to government to do it....and they are failing.


Again, in my opinion, we need a revitalization in this Country....and, as I have stated earlier, it is imperative that we put GOD first and foremost....an old fashion revival could do wonders for this nation.....but,it is going to take people falling to their knees, to remember what was taught to them by past generations....going back to the generation who stated......."The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."


More to come later...

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 18, 2009, 09:27:55 AM
I am staying home from work to be with my sick little girl today....and I have been stewing over another post about conservatism.....so, I am putting my thoughts on exactly what conservatism means to me.....this is MY view, It is not my intent to strike up a debate, this is simply me venting my thoughts on this, in my thread.....

but for me it comes down to a set of values that requires a faith of believing in what our forefathers humbly spoke often about.....and for me, accepting that God DID play an important role in developing the documents that set the standards what role or government has residing over this nation.

The fact there are many statements eluding to the dangers of big government, which has been growing and getting more and more out of control for the last several years, but liberals today are pushing this beyond a comprehensive state of mind.....


Thomas Jefferson alone has stated the following.....


"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not". (That is being proposed by the liberals...take away from THOSE who work hard from their money and give it to those who do not...)


"Most bad government has grown out of too much government"..."I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive".


"I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious". (and that was over 200 years ago...can you imagine what he would bethinking NOW?)


And this one really strikes a chord with me...."Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have" ... "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases".


"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time,and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny"..


And this is what drives it home for me......"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."


For me, I have found that I should put my trust in God, not government, and to never confuse the two. I see conservatism as being the purest form of opportunity and allowing us, as Americans, the ability to pursue and accomplish success and happiness....and, for me, putting God first and foremost, is absolute, and not negotiable.


And, while I am getting all sappy, I honestly believe, that the greatness of this country is not in the power of the government, but in the goodness of the people and as a conservative, I have a trust in the people to make their own decisions and to be able to go after their own dreams, not to be hindered by GOVERNMENT....


Conservatives, want to let the entrepreneurs of this country not be constricted by government, but allow them to utilize their expertise to generate new jobs and ideas...that is what made this country...but a liberal government wants to punish those very people....


Conservatives want to be able to choose the best education for their kids....liberals want government to dictate WHAT kids are being taught.


Conservatives want the strongest and most capable military in the world....believing in peace through strength...I believe that evil DOES exist, and we have to be prepared to fight off this evil, for it wants nothing more than our existence to cease.....liberals, want to cut spending on military and believe we can be one big happy family...that evil will go away, if we can compromise with them...


I also believe that as American citizens, it is our place to take care of the "least of these" according to the Bible....not by government means, but by neighbor helping neighbor....this was always the way it was, BEFORE those in Washington decided that THEY knew better....and,honestly they have not made things any better...we have created a more dependent group of citizens......and the people of this country have neglected their duties and passed it on to government to do it....and they are failing.


Again, in my opinion, we need a revitalization in this Country....and, as I have stated earlier, it is imperative that we put GOD first and foremost....an old fashion revival could do wonders for this nation.....but,it is going to take people falling to their knees, to remember what was taught to them by past generations....going back to the generation who stated......."The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."


More to come later...

You really should check your source before you quote Jefferson.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/j/jefferson-quotes.htm (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/j/jefferson-quotes.htm)

are you quite certain Truthorfiction.com is a reliable source?.....just because they said it was NOT in the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia makes it untrue?......I appreciate the way you HAVE to try to PROVE or UNPROVE every OPINION that someone makes on here...anyway, there was two quotes on here that MAY or MAY not have been contributed by Jefferson, IF they are wrong, I apologize, but it does NOT take away from my point of MY OPINION, that I will not from this point, argue about...this is MY RANT in MY THREAD....I am simply stating WHY I am a conservative......

Conservatives whine too much :biggrin:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 18, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
are you quite certain Truthorfiction.com is a reliable source?.....

A better source than your e-mail in-box.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 18, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
I appreciate the way you HAVE to try to PROVE or UNPROVE every OPINION that someone makes on here...

Once you attribute a QUOTE to someone, it is no longer in the realm of OPINION and must be supported by the FACTS.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 18, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
this is MY RANT in MY THREAD....

You don't like us answering? ... take your ball and go home. Or find a PRIVATE PLACE for your ramblings.

Quote"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not". (That is being proposed by the liberals...take away from THOSE who work hard from their money and give it to those who do not...)

Validity of the source notwithstanding. . . this one strikes a chord with me as well. . .

So by this do you mean that the 21 million Americans currently unemployed, (including those who are underemployed or so discouraged by the fact they cannot find a job that they have stopped looking all-together), should just be left to their fate? Do you mean the millions more of them that do not have health care coverage because their employers do not offer it, they don't have a job, have a preexisting condition, or any one of the cornucopia of exclusionary devices the present system utilizes, are to be left to die an agonizingly slow death, or untimely death? That they are not entitled to proper healthcare simply because????

You do realize that the major portion of the 21 million unemployed people in this country are life-long workers with a wealth of experience and ability that NO ONE will hire because business is in the business of eliminating jobs, not adding them. So despite the fact they may have worked for 30 years straight, inside of a year and a half or so they will be without unemployment support, without healthcare, and in many cases without even a home nor a table to put food on if they have any of that. The reason they are unemployed and uninsured is not their fault, and the overwhelming majority of them would be more than willing to work if someone would hire them; but they will not. . . And that is their fault??? How. . .?

Don't say you aren't talking about them because what you are endorsing secures them this fate should something not be done, and damned soon too!

Business as usual is totally unacceptable to me, and I just don't understand why the only people with a voice in this whole abortion are the ones with jobs, with healthcare, and the least likely to be impacted should things stay as they are. . . Its because once you lose your job you lose your visibility in this society. You become invisible to everyone with a job, and to your government. Anything you may have done in your past, including working for 30 years straight, means nothing to anyone else. You can't spend it, you can't get healthcare with it, and you sure can't keep your possessions with it either. . .

When you turn 50 you had better hope you don't lose whatever job you have; or you'll find out what discrimination really means regardless of your skin color. . . but that's another issue. . .

 :rant: don't put no words in my mouth.....I am standing firmly behind those words, when I say, that it is NOT the f'ing governments place to continue to take, take, take from the working f'ing class in f'ing epic proportions to give to those who do not have the motives to do for themselves.... :rant:

I said nothing about not helping those who honestly need it.....I still say there are better ways to fix this problem for those 21 million besides forcing the entire country to do "opt" in...and that is exactly what is going to happen.......and the heritage foundation is predicting this to cost about three times as much as what is currently projected...and that is not a stretch based upon other bills our government has done....it is ALWAYS more than what the initially forecast....leaving common sense to conclude that they WILL have to tax the American public MORE than the say... :rant: ...leaving us not only in a much more outrageous debt, but putting further burden on an already weak economy.. :rant: ....and I will not apologize for my language, nor am I proud of it, but I am sick and f'ing tired of liberals slamming people like myself with their pompous almighty attitude that WE don't have a f'ing clue and act as if WE don't give a F about this country or it's people... :rant:
and I have stated several fucking times, that I DO want something done, but NOT this trillion dollar f'ing bill, that has barely been looked at, nor fully understood what all is in it...... :rant:

and Bo, you don't have to go to any email to get my quotes, they are blasted everywhere by several sources.....look it up yourself if you don't believe me....

I am as mad as hell right now...I really am....the truth about this bill is going to come forward, very soon......Americans have had enough.....F - the politics....it is getting down to real people being punked by Pelsoi's and her socialist f'ing dirtbags....and there is a smackdown coming real soon.  :rant:

Quote from: Palehorse on November 18, 2009, 09:44:48 PM
...because business is in the business of eliminating jobs, not adding them...

That's one reason why the 'conservatives' (read reactionaries) don't know their arse from a hole in the ground when they talk about 'free trade', government regulations, smaller government, and capitalism in general.

Apparently they can't see or fathom the consequences of what they espouse and push into law.   :rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 18, 2009, 10:34:03 PM
....the truth about this bill is going to come forward, very soon......

...Pelsoi's and her socialist f'ing dirtbags....

Hank,

You know I like you, but you haven't shown the least inclination of knowing or understanding much, if anything at all, about that bill...or socialism for that matter.

It normally appears to me that you're being lead around by the usual RW drivel. 

And the bottom line is the only people that are going to get hurt by all of this bullshit are the ones already hurting. . . because nothing will get done.

Where is the voice of the pale and downtrodden in all of this? They have no voice. The only voices I hear are coming from those that already have a job, have healthcare. . . on both sides of the shitstorm being produced by the debate. And the whole argument is based upon who is going to reach into whose pocket, bottom line. Nobody cares one god damned iota about the fact that while you are all sitting around blowing your horns, millions of people are starving, homeless, jobless, and millions more are joining them each and every day while you sit around and accomplish nothing.

How many have to die before somebody does something? How many  more years will you argue and bluster about while the men and women of this country perish but for want of nothing more than a job, a doctor, and the ability to make for themselves?

You can get mad all you want Henry but the fact of the matter is there is not one single employed and healthcare covered individual in this nation full of sheeple that gives one damned about the fact that Mr & Mrs Jones, who worked for 30 years for XYZ company and were laid off because of a plant closure, now don't have healthcare, have lost their home of 30 years because Mr Jones had a cardiac event, and now couldn't get coverage if they worked for Microsoft!

They have been dying all along, and a lot of the folks who have managed to survive despite it all, are now living under the bridges, in the parks, and sleeping in the cardboard boxes your ice making-water dispensing refrigerator was delivered to you in. You don't see them because you don't go under the bridges; unless it is at 70 mph as you zip by on your way to an event, or to wallyworld. And when you walk right past them on your way inside the event you don't see them, even though they're holding a sign begging for work or a dollar while they keep warm on the sewer grate or air intake venting.

Some of these men and women were CEO's at major corporations, or were assembly line workers in the factories that now stand empty across this country. Sure some of them, an increasingly shrinking portion of them, are there because they chose that life. But more and more that is becoming the exception rather than the rule.

And the whole time nothing has been done because nobody cares enough about it; until it hits home, hits you, or your family. Then it is a different story. Then you find out that you have become invisible, one of "those" people you used to call lazy, worthless, freeloaders. . . And all because you lost your job because the place closed, or you lost your home because you had a heart attack and it wasn't covered by your healthcare. . .

It has to change and right soon, or the next time somebody flies planes into the skyscrapers there will be nobody left to volunteer to defend this country. . . We'll all be homeless or dead. . . off the grid. . invisible. . .

Finally we get somebody in government that cares enough to get the ball rolling and they scream for time, scream for patience, scream for the sake of screaming to the point where the majority cannot hear themselves think for the caterwauling being done.

And it matters not one bit that we've had well over 233 years to get this damned thing right. We'll wait another 233 years before anybody reaches into anybody else's pocket for a red cent for "those people". . . If there is anyone left by then. . .

Quote from: Palehorse on November 18, 2009, 11:03:27 PM
And the bottom line is the only people that are going to get hurt by all of this bullshit are the ones already hurting. . . because nothing will get done.

and that is strictly by the fault of the democrats who are in power....period

the repubicans have offered their version......and there was NO compromise to it all........polls have shown that Americans do NOT want this Bill.....

and Y, I understand what is going on perfectly well..........and it appears to me, that it is the left who is being led around, made to think that this bill  is going to make things better.....and THAT is merely victims of their propaganda....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 19, 2009, 06:55:06 AM
........polls have shown that Americans do NOT want this Bill.....

Which polls?

Quote...and Y, I understand what is going on perfectly well..........and it appears to me, that it is the left who is being led around, made to think that this bill  is going to make things better.....and THAT is merely victims of their propaganda....

Go with that.   :rolleyes:

(http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/11/17/tomo/story.jpg)

I see where their problem lies HH.  They sit around all day looking at cartoons full of BS instead of looking at the real issues.  Guess it's more on their level.   :biggrin:

Quote from: me on November 19, 2009, 11:34:28 AM
I see where their problem lies HH.  They sit around all day looking at cartoons full of BS instead of looking at the real issues.  Guess it's more on their level.   :biggrin:

;D ;D

Quote from: me on November 19, 2009, 11:34:28 AM
I see where their problem lies HH.  They sit around all day looking at cartoons full of BS instead of looking at the real issues.  Guess it's more on their level.   :biggrin:

And you all wait eagerly for that next viral e-mail to hit your inbox so you can post your lies about grapes not growing in England and pictures of U.S. luxury prisons (which are really in Europe.)

Quote from: Olias on November 19, 2009, 11:48:57 AM
And you all wait eagerly for that next viral e-mail to hit your inbox so you can post your lies about grapes not growing in England and pictures of U.S. luxury prisons (which are really in Europe.)

Guess that makes us even then huh? 

Quote from: me on November 19, 2009, 11:34:28 AM
I see where their problem lies HH.  They sit around all day looking at cartoons full of BS instead of looking at the real issues.  Guess it's more on their level.   :biggrin:

Go with that, genius.   :rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 18, 2009, 09:27:55 AM
I am staying home from work to be with my sick little girl today....and I have been stewing over another post about conservatism.....so, I am putting my thoughts on exactly what conservatism means to me.....this is MY view, It is not my intent to strike up a debate, this is simply me venting my thoughts on this, in my thread.....

but for me it comes down to a set of values that requires a faith of believing in what our forefathers humbly spoke often about.....and for me, accepting that God DID play an important role in developing the documents that set the standards what role or government has residing over this nation.

The fact there are many statements eluding to the dangers of big government, which has been growing and getting more and more out of control for the last several years, but liberals today are pushing this beyond a comprehensive state of mind.....


Thomas Jefferson alone has stated the following.....


"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not". (That is being proposed by the liberals...take away from THOSE who work hard from their money and give it to those who do not...)


"Most bad government has grown out of too much government"..."I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive".


"I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious". (and that was over 200 years ago...can you imagine what he would bethinking NOW?)


And this one really strikes a chord with me...."Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have" ... "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases".


"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time,and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny"..


And this is what drives it home for me......"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."


For me, I have found that I should put my trust in God, not government, and to never confuse the two. I see conservatism as being the purest form of opportunity and allowing us, as Americans, the ability to pursue and accomplish success and happiness....and, for me, putting God first and foremost, is absolute, and not negotiable.


And, while I am getting all sappy, I honestly believe, that the greatness of this country is not in the power of the government, but in the goodness of the people and as a conservative, I have a trust in the people to make their own decisions and to be able to go after their own dreams, not to be hindered by GOVERNMENT....


Conservatives, want to let the entrepreneurs of this country not be constricted by government, but allow them to utilize their expertise to generate new jobs and ideas...that is what made this country...but a liberal government wants to punish those very people....


Conservatives want to be able to choose the best education for their kids....liberals want government to dictate WHAT kids are being taught.


Conservatives want the strongest and most capable military in the world....believing in peace through strength...I believe that evil DOES exist, and we have to be prepared to fight off this evil, for it wants nothing more than our existence to cease.....liberals, want to cut spending on military and believe we can be one big happy family...that evil will go away, if we can compromise with them...


I also believe that as American citizens, it is our place to take care of the "least of these" according to the Bible....not by government means, but by neighbor helping neighbor....this was always the way it was, BEFORE those in Washington decided that THEY knew better....and,honestly they have not made things any better...we have created a more dependent group of citizens......and the people of this country have neglected their duties and passed it on to government to do it....and they are failing.


Again, in my opinion, we need a revitalization in this Country....and, as I have stated earlier, it is imperative that we put GOD first and foremost....an old fashion revival could do wonders for this nation.....but,it is going to take people falling to their knees, to remember what was taught to them by past generations....going back to the generation who stated......."The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."


More to come later...

I'm looking forward to your continued thoughts on this. You did a supurb job of summing up how many conservatives feel about government and God. I admire the way you continue to post about the truth even when it seems you're usually attacted for it. If anything that should show you that you're very close to the truth. Liberals are so full of secretarian koolaide that the truth is like poison to them and they react with vicious anger.

...and the award for most overly dramatic post goes to....DOC!

Careful. You might be "attacted" for it.

Quote from: followsthewolf on November 21, 2009, 12:55:46 PM
Careful. You might be "attacted" for it.

:biggrin:

I saw that earlier and I'm still laughing  :biggrin:

Self righteousness sure runs amok sometimes it seems.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Sandy Eggo on November 21, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
I saw that earlier and I'm still laughing  :biggrin:

I've seen more than that one. . . but . . .

Quote from: me on November 21, 2009, 02:18:59 PM
Self righteousness sure runs amok sometimes it seems.  :rolleyes:

Yeah. . . jump down of that stack of bibles before yah get a nose bleed. . .

Quote from: Palehorse on November 21, 2009, 02:25:21 PM
I've seen more than that one. . . but . . .

Yeah. . . jump down of that stack of bibles before yah get a nose bleed. . .

:confused:

Quote from: Exterminator on November 19, 2009, 09:28:00 AM
Which polls?

I guess the answer to this is, "no polls."

Quote from: Exterminator on November 23, 2009, 08:59:12 AM
I guess the answer to this is, "no polls."

whatever skippy;

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Poll-Huge-majority-doesnt-want-Democrats-health-care-bill-69399612.html (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Poll-Huge-majority-doesnt-want-Democrats-health-care-bill-69399612.html)

Maybe you should have said that "polls have shown that some Americans do not want this bill. (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform)"

Quote from: Exterminator on November 23, 2009, 09:52:57 AM
Maybe you should have said that "polls have shown that some Americans do not want this bill. (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform)"

How about 56% of Americans OPPOSE this bill....http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 23, 2009, 02:06:39 PM

How about 56% of Americans OPPOSE this bill....http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform)

How about 56% of those Americans polled. . . I wonder what percentage of " those Americans" are presently employed and have health care coverage?

Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 02:54:43 PM
How about 56% of those Americans polled. . . I wonder what percentage of " those Americans" are presently employed and have health care coverage?

I have healthcoverage........I am NOT opposed to HC reform at all........I am concerned about spending TRILLIONS on redoing EVERYONES HC....along with issues such as abortion coverage and the fact, who is actually going to pay for it.

2000 pages of BS, lets get this thing RIGHT.

 :rolleyes:  Please learn something...anything.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 23, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
I have healthcoverage........I am NOT opposed to HC reform at all........I am concerned about spending TRILLIONS on redoing EVERYONES HC....along with issues such as abortion coverage and the fact, who is actually going to pay for it.

2000 pages of BS, lets get this thing RIGHT.

Don't bring in religious beliefs surrounding health care. The fact is you have a choice to have the procedure or not based upon those beliefs. That is how it should be. Period.

The original bill does not "redo" everyone's health care! Unless of course you have some fly by night insurance carrier who skimps on coverage, excludes coverage due to pre existing conditions or some other nefarious tripe that they love to pull. In fact if anything it improves your current coverage by requiring them to pay for diagnostic testing, as they previously did, and disallowing the current practice of applying it toward your deductible.

It forces smaller businesses to provide tiers of coverage based upon the size of the company and its ability to pay, and penalizes them if they do not. (Hence the public option which would be provided to those whose employers do not provide coverage, in part). ~(IMHO this is a portion that is sorely needed in this country and yet I fully expect it to be sliced right out of the legislation).

I am sure most insurance companies will then over-react with a typical knee-jerk hike to premiums, but should this transpire my expectation is that it will bring a swift reaction from government in the form of regulation of the industry to prevent it; a key point the insurance industry had better be mindful of!

It is time for these morons to come down from their ivory towers and mingle with the regular folks, and if they won't do so willingly and adjust their annual operating plans to accommodate these changes, then let the beatings begin!

It is time to accentuate quality of life verses quantity, and the sooner we all get this the sooner we can get back to the business of living our lives; and stop yapping about it! We've already spent 233 years giving this thing nothing but lip service. Nothing but talk, no action; while millions have died a needless and untimely death.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 23, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
I have healthcoverage........I am NOT opposed to HC reform at all........I am concerned about spending TRILLIONS on redoing EVERYONES HC....along with issues such as abortion coverage and the fact, who is actually going to pay for it.

2000 pages of BS, lets get this thing RIGHT.

You know Henry, maybe you believe you are perfectly happy with your coverage right now, and perhaps in reality you are; but wait until your body begins aging and you reach the period in life where your systems start requiring some attention. THAT is when you are going to find out how happy you really are. When you start having to shell out $475.00 every three months to have a phlebotomist draw blood for a quarterly chemscreen. When you have to shell out 200 bucks a month in co-pays for the drugs you need to help your circulatory challenges, maintain your blood pressure, or regulate your heart rate or cholesterol levels. Above and beyond the premiums you already pay each pay period.

Same goes for your spouse, and then your children as they begin having to have medical attention due to sports injuries, or other medical challenges.

You only are happy now because odds are you are not really using your medical coverage very much. But when you really start using it you'll see the big picture in a hurry. . . 30-40% of your income or more can and will start being diverted toward health care costs; between premiums, medicines, co-pays, and outstanding bills at medical institutions related to health events that your insurance will not cover. That is the reality for those currently covered by a majority of plans right now. For those that do not have coverage the picture is even bleaker.

That's a good start, PH. I'm in that situation. How does $600/month for meds just for me (not counting the approx. $400 for my wife's meds and $800/month for her medical coverage) sound to all you future retirees?

Quote from: followsthewolf on November 23, 2009, 04:42:24 PM
That's a good start, PH. I'm in that situation. How does $600/month for meds just for me (not counting the approx. $400 for my wife's meds and $800/month for her medical coverage) sound to all you future retirees?

I feel your pain FTW, and have seen this coming for years. While the wife and I were raising our 6 kids it was a constant struggle to keep up with the broken bones, infected tonsils, and other childhood medical related obstacles that crop up when you least expected them; and in groups.  I cannot imagine what it would be like in this day and age with 6 minors children in the house. I'd be living in a tent or dead!

It's bad enough now just trying to keep up with our proactive personal medical plan. They want you to exercise preventative medicine, and in fact many insurance companies penalize you if you do not; but then they refuse to cover the diagnostic testing legally/morally required by the doctor in order to prescribe the medicinal program that suits your specific situation/condition(s).

It's like a Twilight Zone episode sometimes, especially when your income stream has taken the hits most of ours have. And it just keeps getting worse each year with higher premiums and less coverage.

I feel for my children, who are now raising/starting their own families. Should they reach my age group it is going to be Creepshow instead of Twilight Zone; or Tales From The Crypt.

Insurance companies and health care providers have brought this on themselves for their decades of abuse of the system and the infirm. And they are attempting to raise this huge smokescreen with their shameful propaganda blitzkrieg, in order to scare their members into seeing things their way and allowing them to continue robbing us blind.

The sad part is it is working, and only after individuals like you and I are fertilizer will the sheep realize they have let the wolves have their way.

Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 03:47:03 PM
You know Henry, maybe you believe you are perfectly happy with your coverage right now, and perhaps in reality you are; but wait until your body begins aging and you reach the period in life where your systems start requiring some attention. THAT is when you are going to find out how happy you really are. When you start having to shell out $475.00 every three months to have a phlebotomist draw blood for a quarterly chemscreen. When you have to shell out 200 bucks a month in co-pays for the drugs you need to help your circulatory challenges, maintain your blood pressure, or regulate your heart rate or cholesterol levels. Above and beyond the premiums you already pay each pay period.

Same goes for your spouse, and then your children as they begin having to have medical attention due to sports injuries, or other medical challenges.

You only are happy now because odds are you are not really using your medical coverage very much. But when you really start using it you'll see the big picture in a hurry. . . 30-40% of your income or more can and will start being diverted toward health care costs; between premiums, medicines, co-pays, and outstanding bills at medical institutions related to health events that your insurance will not cover. That is the reality for those currently covered by a majority of plans right now. For those that do not have coverage the picture is even bleaker.

There are programs for them like free or discounted medicines at participating pharmacy's, medicaid, I have two friends who are on it, one with crones disease and a serious heart problem and one with crippling arthritis, cataracts, and some other health issues, and programs within the hospitals.  They are both getting their medications free as well as their health care. 

Quote from: me on November 23, 2009, 07:43:20 PM
There are programs for them like free or discounted medicines at participating pharmacy's, medicaid, I have two friends who are on it, one with crones disease and a serious heart problem and one with crippling arthritis, cataracts, and some other health issues, and programs within the hospitals.  They are both getting their medications free as well as their health care.

The rub is those "programs" are not "free" to anyone but those who use them. Everyone else makes up the difference, and it is you and I who pay for them.

I know, I worked for one of the big pharma companies and I know how pricing is established; incorporating increases to paying customers to make up for the "philanthropic endeavors" expected for the upcoming year when constructing the AOP. (Annual Operating Plan). Plus, and heres the rub that gives me road rash, they get a tax write off for it to go directly against the profit in a legalized corporate double-dip!

So yeah, the Smith and Jones families nationwide might be getting free or discounted medicines and treatment, but Average Joe and Jane's families will pay more for their services to make up the difference, while the providers get the same revenue generation and a back door increase thanks to the write off!

Why can't you guys see that?!

And now look what this poor woman has had done to her by her employer and health care insurance! Sure, its in Canada but how long do you think it is going to take US divisions to start doing the very same thing???

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20091122/CN.Canada.Facebook.Insurance/ (http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20091122/CN.Canada.Facebook.Insurance/)

Quote
MONTREAL — A Canadian woman on sick leave for depression said Monday she would fight an insurance company's decision to cut her benefits after her agent found photos on Facebook of her vacationing, at a bar and at a party.

Nathalie Blanchard said Monday she was diagnosed with major depression and was receiving monthly sick-leave benefits until payments dried up this fall.

When Blanchard called her insurance provider, Manulife, to find out why, she says she was told the Facebook photos showed she was able to work.

"If you have insurance, be careful. This is a major battle and it's not going to be easy," Blanchard, 29, said in a telephone interview from her home in Bromont, Quebec.

She said her insurance agent described several pictures Blanchard posted on Facebook, including ones showing her having a good time at a Chippendales bar show, at her birthday party and on a sun holiday.

Blanchard said Manulife told her it was evidence she is no longer depressed.

Her lawyer, Tom Lavin, said Blanchard was wrongfully dismissed from her benefits, and she had the right to go on holiday.

"The issue for me is that they stopped her disability benefits without the proper medical recommendations. Her doctor recommended she go on vacation," he said.

Blanchard said she took three four-day trips when she was feeling especially low, on her psychiatrist's advice.

Manulife declined to comment on the case specifically but has said in a statement that "we would not deny or terminate a valid claim solely based on information published on Web sites such as Facebook."

Still, Lavin said the issue raises concerns for anyone who expects their private life to remain so if they post personal information to social networking sites such as Facebook.

"It's good warning for people who use Facebook. It's not like being at home and writing in your diary. It's out there for the whole word to see," he said.

Blanchard's case will be before Quebec Superior Court Dec. 8.

Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 08:00:14 PM
The rub is those "programs" are not "free" to anyone but those who use them. Everyone else makes up the difference, and it is you and I who pay for them.

I know, I worked for one of the big pharma companies and I know how pricing is established; incorporating increases to paying customers to make up for the "philanthropic endeavors" expected for the upcoming year when constructing the AOP. (Annual Operating Plan). Plus, and heres the rub that gives me road rash, they get a tax write off for it to go directly against the profit in a legalized corporate double-dip!

So yeah, the Smith and Jones families nationwide might be getting free or discounted medicines and treatment, but Average Joe and Jane's families will pay more for their services to make up the difference, while the providers get the same revenue generation and a back door increase thanks to the write off!

Why can't you guys see that?!

And you think GSHC for everyone is going to be any less costly? 

Quote from: me on November 23, 2009, 10:08:28 PM
And you think GSHC for everyone is going to be any less costly?

I do, and it can't be any worse than what the present unregulated health care has in store for us. . . Besides, the government isn't running it as much as they are going to regulate it. "Government run" is a misnomer bandied about by extremists to get the sheep bleating.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 10:48:25 PM
I do, and it can't be any worse than what the present unregulated health care has in store for us. . . Besides, the government isn't running it as much as they are going to regulate it. "Government run" is a misnomer bandied about by extremists to get the sheep bleating.  :rolleyes:

They've done such a bang up record of "regulating" so far somehow that doesn't give me much comfort.  "Cash for clunkers".  What a deal.  Tell the dealer in Muncie who is probably going to go down the tubes because he still hasn't gotten paid what a deal that was. Not to mention the auto auctions and used car dealers who are coming up short on inventory now.  When the doctors don't get paid and quit who is going to see all the new patients?  I know fresh out of school interns who know nothing yet.  Of course they're going to have to graduate more students and slack up on the medical exams for the licenses to put more doctors into the population so the quality of providers is going to take a dive.  Oh, and they will also have to loosen up on the requirements to even get accepted into medical school so that will put people in there who may or may not make it and since they most likely didn't get a scholarship guess who will get to pay for them to enter med school.....ta da....us through government programs to get more doctors. 

Still seems to me like reforming what we already have would be quicker, cheaper, and make much more sense.

Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 08:00:14 PM
The rub is those "programs" are not "free" to anyone but those who use them. Everyone else makes up the difference, and it is you and I who pay for them.

No, she isn't paying for them at all.

Quote from: me on November 24, 2009, 01:54:31 AM
"Cash for clunkers".  What a deal.  Tell the dealer in Muncie who is probably going to go down the tubes because he still hasn't gotten paid what a deal that was.

Which dealer, please?

QuoteNot to mention the auto auctions and used car dealers who are coming up short on inventory now.

Huh; a friend of mine owns a used car lot and has plenty of cars...that he bought at auction.

QuoteWhen the doctors don't get paid and quit who is going to see all the new patients?  I know fresh out of school interns who know nothing yet.  Of course they're going to have to graduate more students and slack up on the medical exams for the licenses to put more doctors into the population so the quality of providers is going to take a dive.  Oh, and they will also have to loosen up on the requirements to even get accepted into medical school so that will put people in there who may or may not make it and since they most likely didn't get a scholarship guess who will get to pay for them to enter med school.....ta da....us through government programs to get more doctors.

All bullshit hyperbole. 

QuoteStill seems to me like reforming what we already have would be quicker, cheaper, and make much more sense.

That is precisely what they are attempting to do.

Quote from: Palehorse on November 23, 2009, 10:48:25 PM
I do, and it can't be any worse than what the present unregulated health care has in store for us. . . Besides, the government isn't running it as much as they are going to regulate it. "Government run" is a misnomer bandied about by extremists to get the sheep bleating.  :rolleyes:

here is a good article, regarding this....http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125900412679261049.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125900412679261049.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories)

(http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_120309/content/01125107.Par.89380.ImageFile.jpg)

THis made me chuckle...

From an Article I just read:

A Few Good Scientists
You want the truth? You can't understand the truth!      :rotfl:

In every place of knowledge, there is a statue dedicated to one of the great martyrs of science. He carefully studied the data and came to the conclusion that his people were doomed if action was not immediately taken. For this effort, he was mocked, derided, and ultimately ignored. And, as a result, millions died.

I speak, of course, of Jor-El, Superman's father (his biological father, not the Midwestern hillbilly who adopted him). The destruction of Krypton was the tragic result of science being ignored, and every scientist keeps the lesson of Jor-El in mind whenever he finds himself mocked for warning of an impending catastrophe or questioned for launching his children into space unattended.

And history repeats itself with climate change. We tell you people of the imminent dangers from the earth warming, and what do you do? You mock us. You question our motives. People who can't even convert Fahrenheit to Celsius try and tell us we did the science wrong. Now emails have leaked (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climatedate-document-database-from-pjtvpajamas-media/) from the Climate Research Unit that apparently show that scientists were fixing the data and trying to suppress the scientific research of dissenters, and you people demand answers from us. I have one thing to say to that.

How dare you!

You do not understand the first thing about climate research. Man-made global warming is settled science. Disaster is imminent. We know this. It is a fact. We don't waste time on studies that say otherwise, the same way we don't waste time on studies that assert that the earth is flat. We are very smart people, and when we say something is so, you should just accept it.

So you think what is in those emails is important? Well, what exactly do you know? Do you see the white lab coats we wear? That color symbolizes pure science. Were someone like you to wear one, within five minutes it would be stained with neon orange powdered cheese and wet with drool from you trying to comprehend the data sets people like me look at every day.

We are out there trying to stave off global disaster, telling you what political and economic changes you need to make in order to survive. We do the things that you find too complex or too boring to do. One would think that would engender gratitude — or maybe even awe at our abilities — yet you troglodytes cling to everything you can use to second-guess us. Every time it's a bit cold out, you doubt us. Every time one little piece of data has to be revised, you question us. And now some emails make you think you can just throw out everything we've done?

Let me tell you this: If it weren't for scientists like me, you'd still be worshiping fire as an angry god. Every convenience in your life is thanks to us, so when we tell you something, you should just nod your head like you comprehend what we're saying and shut up. And right now I am telling you those emails are unimportant.

Oh, that's not good enough for you. You want us to explain them. You think you're entitled to the truth.
You can't understand the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to have scientific equipment on them to gather data, and that data studied by men with computers. Who's going to do it? A layman like you? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the global warming skeptics and curse the climatologists. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know — that the crushing of data contrary to global warming, while tragic, probably saved grant money. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to the layman, creates scientific consensus. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about on Twitter, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall studying those measurements you can't even begin to comprehend.

We use phrases like "peer review," "overwhelming consensus," "settled science." We use these phrases as the backbone to a life spent studying something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket made by synthetic fibers my science creates, then questions the manner in which I provide that science! I'd rather you just said, "You're such a genius!" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a lab coat and crunch data. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Of course we hid dissenting data! We had to. So as not to confuse your simple minds from understanding the greater truth that man-made global warming is real! Now, excuse me; I have science to do.

There won't be another Krypton on my watch.
:rotfl:

From the American Thinker...

Bush or Obama: The Quiz

1. President Bush was famous for lacking "intellectual curiosity (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/18/cafferty.mccain/index.html)," while President Obama has been called "the smartest guy ever to become President (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCV9ZoV--BY)." Who reads more books: Bush or Obama?

2. Bush was often considered to be in the grip of Big Oil (http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2008/06/14/front/792793.txt). In contrast, Obama is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Which industry contributed more than five times as much as the other to politicians: the oil & gas industry, or lawyers/law firms?

3. Bush's Christian faith was at the core of his political identity, and he was considered to be in the grip of the "religious right," while Obama is considered more open-minded. In fact, Obama has said, "my faith is one that admits some doubt." Which one refers to Jesus more in public speeches?

4. Bush was criticized for excessive federal spending and running up huge deficits.  Bush's deficit in 2008 was the largest in history.  In fact, President Obama said,

It's a little hard for me to take criticism from folks about this recovery package after they've presided over a doubling of the national debt ... What I won't do is return to the failed theories of the last eight years that got us into this fix in the first place.

Whose deficit was more than triple the size of the other's: Bush's in 2008 or Obama's in 2009?

5. While Obama criticized Bush for "a doubling of the national debt," the federal debt held by the public went from 35.1% of GDP in 2000 to 40.8% of GDP in 2008 -- an increase of 16% as of fraction of GDP. What is it expected to be in 2016 under Obama's budget plan?

6.  Obama criticized Bush for Guantanamo, military tribunals, wiretaps, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and "signing statements." Which one of these Bush practices has Obama ended?

Answers:

1. Bush. Obama started reading a book in April and had not finished it by June, putting him on a pace of no more than ten books per year. Bush read forty to ninety-five books (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/02/obama-keeping-up-with-bushs-reading-pace/) a year while President, not counting a new and complete reading of the Bible every year. Bush scored 1206 on his SAT, putting his IQ in the 125-130 range, smarter than 95% of the population and in the company of Lincoln, Rousseau, and Thackeray. He graduated from Yale and earned an MBA from Harvard. Obama earned a law degree from Harvard, but has not released any of his academic records. Despite what you might have heard, we know nothing of his IQ, test scores, or grades from any of the schools he attended.

2. Law firms. In the 2010 cycle so far (http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/industries.php), Lawyers/Law Firms have contributed $33,779,866 (81% to Democrats), and the Oil & Gas industry has contributed $6,293,631 (34% to Democrats). In the 2008 cycle (http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/industries.php), the numbers were $233,499,989 (76% to Dems) from lawyers and $35,564,322 (23% to Dems). In all, lawyers contributed about six times more to politicians than the Oil & Gas industry.

3. Obama. Per Eamon Javers at Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23510.html), "As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches -- something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings."

4. Obama's 2009 deficit, the largest in U.S. history. It was more than three times that of Bush's record 2008 deficit. Per the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10708/11-9-09MBR.pdf), the 2008 deficit was $455 B, and the 2009 deficit was $1,417 B. As a fraction of GDP, it was the largest deficit since 1945.

5.  The CBO (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/102xx/doc10296/06-16-AnalysisPresBudget_forWeb.pdf) expects the debt held by the public to be 77.1% of GDP in 2016 under Obama's plan, or an increase of 89% as a fraction of GDP, and the highest level since 1950.

6. None.

Guantanamo is still open (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D989ENI80&show_article=1) and probably will be into 2010, maybe longer.
Obama is keeping (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/16/politics/main5018988.shtml.) military tribunals and clandestine wiretapping programs.
Obama plans to keep most troops in Iraq (http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-02-26-marine_N.htm) until the summer of 2010.  Even then, he is talking of keeping about 50,000 troops there (compared to about 124,000 now (http://www.brookings.edu/saban/~/media/Files/Centers/Saban/Iraq%20Index/index.ashx)). The number of US troops in Afghanistan increased (http://www.brookings.edu/foreign-policy/~/media/Files/Programs/FP/afghanistan%20index/index.ashx) from 37,000 in January 2009 to 62,000 by August 2009, and Obama is expected to send over 30,000 more (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/78516.html). Total number of US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan has increased under Obama so far (from about 184,000 in January to 186,000 in September).
Obama has used signing statements (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/obama-will-cont.html.) himself.

This source says his IQ is 91.

http://www.linkydinky.com/BushIQ.shtml (http://www.linkydinky.com/BushIQ.shtml)

:biggrin:

They must have been scoring on a curve ;D

 :biggrin:

So I guess their study is more accurate than his actual SAT score....Hum go figure.  Ya'll reallly amaze me ya know. 

1. Bush. Obama started reading a book in April and had not finished it by June, putting him on a pace of no more than ten books per year. Bush read forty to ninety-five books a year while President, not counting a new and complete reading of the Bible every year. Bush scored 1206 on his SAT, putting his IQ in the 125-130 range, smarter than 95% of the population and in the company of Lincoln, Rousseau, and Thackeray. He graduated from Yale and earned an MBA from Harvard. Obama earned a law degree from Harvard, but has not released any of his academic records. Despite what you might have heard, we know nothing of his IQ, test scores, or grades from any of the schools he attended.

Quote from: Olias on February 17, 2010, 10:06:45 AM
This source says his IQ is 91.

http://www.linkydinky.com/BushIQ.shtml (http://www.linkydinky.com/BushIQ.shtml)

:biggrin:

Quote from: me on February 17, 2010, 12:30:33 PM
So I guess their study is more accurate than his actual SAT score....Hum go figure.  Ya'll reallly amaze me ya know. 

1. Bush. Obama started reading a book in April and had not finished it by June, putting him on a pace of no more than ten books per year. Bush read forty to ninety-five books a year while President, not counting a new and complete reading of the Bible every year. Bush scored 1206 on his SAT, putting his IQ in the 125-130 range, smarter than 95% of the population and in the company of Lincoln, Rousseau, and Thackeray. He graduated from Yale and earned an MBA from Harvard. Obama earned a law degree from Harvard, but has not released any of his academic records. Despite what you might have heard, we know nothing of his IQ, test scores, or grades from any of the schools he attended.

ASSume away. . .

Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 12:54:45 PM
ASSume away. . .

I guess then that you are assuming the study is right and that the SAT score is wrong.

I like the way they just get it side tracked.....and AGAIN, blame Bush... ;D

THIS is a very interesting point...

2. Bush was often considered to be in the grip of Big Oil. In contrast, Obama is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Which industry contributed more than five times as much as the other to politicians: the oil & gas industry, or lawyers/law firms?

Answer:

Law firms. In the 2010 cycle so far, Lawyers/Law Firms have contributed $33,779,866 (81% to Democrats), and the Oil & Gas industry has contributed $6,293,631 (34% to Democrats). In the 2008 cycle, the numbers were $233,499,989 (76% to Dems) from lawyers and $35,564,322 (23% to Dems). In all, lawyers contributed about six times more to politicians than the Oil & Gas industry.

Quote from: me on February 17, 2010, 12:59:46 PM
I guess then that you are assuming the study is right and that the SAT score is wrong.

It is possible to cheat on an SAT test.

Besides, weren't we discussing IQ?

To quote Henry "I like the way they just get it side tracked"

(And notice how Henry gingerly sidesteps the IQ issue.)


:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

I'm not side stepping anything....I posted this in "henry's rant"...and I'm simply observing the double standars...

I pains you folks to admit, that Obama is NOT remotely close to perfect....he has a lot of baggage that YOU guys ALWAYS avoid, and ALWAYS turn it to Bush...

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 01:24:18 PM
YOU guys ALWAYS avoid, and ALWAYS turn it to Bush...

Whoa, Dude! You better go look back at this thread and see what I first responded to.

YOUR post about BUSH!!!!

And while you're at it, if you think Bush's 1206 SAT score makes him smart, then you have to admit Al Gore is a freakin' genius with his score of 1300.

:biggrin: :biggrin:  :razz:

Nah.

Bush beat Gore.

That makes him smarter.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 01:08:17 PM
I like the way they just get it side tracked.....and AGAIN, blame Bush... ;D

THIS is a very interesting point...

2. Bush was often considered to be in the grip of Big Oil. In contrast, Obama is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Which industry contributed more than five times as much as the other to politicians: the oil & gas industry, or lawyers/law firms?

Answer:

Law firms. In the 2010 cycle so far, Lawyers/Law Firms have contributed $33,779,866 (81% to Democrats), and the Oil & Gas industry has contributed $6,293,631 (34% to Democrats). In the 2008 cycle, the numbers were $233,499,989 (76% to Dems) from lawyers and $35,564,322 (23% to Dems). In all, lawyers contributed about six times more to politicians than the Oil & Gas industry.

And I suppose that SCOTUS decision is going to make this situation better? How??  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 01:34:31 PM
And I suppose that SCOTUS decision is going to make this situation better? How??  :rolleyes:

I didn't say anything about the SCOTUS decision...AGAIN...let's draw the topic away from it's original point.

I am having a great laugh today....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 01:40:04 PM
I didn't say anything about the SCOTUS decision...AGAIN...let's draw the topic away from it's original point.

I am having a great laugh today....

The point you highlighted is directly impacted by the SCOTUS decision, so how can you say I am deflecting?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 01:08:17 PM


Law firms. In the 2010 cycle so far, Lawyers/Law Firms have contributed $33,779,866 (81% to Democrats), and the Oil & Gas industry has contributed $6,293,631 (34% to Democrats). In the 2008 cycle, the numbers were $233,499,989 (76% to Dems) from lawyers and $35,564,322 (23% to Dems). In all, lawyers contributed about six times more to politicians than the Oil & Gas industry.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 01:40:04 PM
I didn't say anything about the SCOTUS decision...AGAIN...let's draw the topic away from it's original point.

I am having a great laugh today....

Laugh away, dude.

And what exactly is the original point? You posted an unreferenced piece which mentioned Bush's IQ. I responded with an actual source. How in Heaven's name can you construe that as  "let's draw the topic away from it's original point?"

Yet you continue to dance and spin.

Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 01:51:14 PM
The point you highlighted is directly impacted by the SCOTUS decision, so how can you say I am deflecting?

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

I love it when they get caught in their own traps!

Quote from: Olias on February 17, 2010, 01:54:10 PM
Laugh away, dude.

And what exactly is the original point? You posted an unreferenced piece which mentioned Bush's IQ. I responded with an actual source. How in Heaven's name can you construe that as  "let's draw the topic away from it's original point?"

Yet you continue to dance and spin.

Ya better check you're sources a little better next time dude:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp

:rotfl:

Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 01:51:14 PM
The point you highlighted is directly impacted by the SCOTUS decision, so how can you say I am deflecting?

the POINT is that you libs, find Big Oil appalling on it's EVILNESS in the political world, but never mention a word about the those who ARE evil (lawyers... :razz: )...are involved even MORE so in it's political ability to control....

personally, I have no problem with ANY body, person or group, who FREELY gives it's OWN money, to joe the plumber or Obama or Palin or whoever...as long is it well known and not given in secret, or undisclosed....and IF they are doing anything fraudulent then they should THEN be tried and punished according to the law....

Quote from: me on February 17, 2010, 02:06:32 PM
Ya better check you're sources a little better next time dude:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp)

:rotfl:

who was who just said, "I love it when they get caught in their own traps!" ... :rotfl:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 02:11:52 PM
the POINT is that you libs, find Big Oil appalling on it's EVILNESS in the political world, but never mention a word about the those who ARE evil (lawyers... :razz: )...are involved even MORE so in it's political ability to control....

personally, I have no problem with ANY body, person or group, who FREELY gives it's OWN money, to joe the plumber or Obama or Palin or whoever...as long is it well known and not given in secret, or undisclosed....and IF they are doing anything fraudulent then they should THEN be tried and punished according to the law....

Facts:

1. PROVE I am a liberal, which you are so fond of categorizing me as. As I have said many time before, I lay no claim or allegiance to any political party what so ever. Your utilization of my perspectives as a means with which to "stereo-type" me is laughable. I am proud to say that in each case in which I have cast my vote, I have never voted along any party line nor limited my choices to those mainstream candidates offered. (I have voted libertarian 2 times in my voting life, leaving Dems and Repubs to receiving my vote 32 times)

2. The fact that big oil is utilized as an example within a brief synopsis of the situation is not intended to be a full disclosure of those entities engaging in said practices; in fact many of the instances in which big oil is/was utilized as an example contain verbiage indicating such. I believe the unanimous outcry heard from those of us decrying the SCOTUS decision is proof enough, validating this statement.

Question:

1. Then why include it within the originating post at all, and further utilize the point as a means to demonstrate your own?

Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 02:27:50 PM
Facts:

1. PROVE I am a liberal, which you are so fond of categorizing me as. As I have said many time before, I lay no claim or allegiance to any political party what so ever. Your utilization of my perspectives as a means with which to "stereo-type" me is laughable. I am proud to say that in each case in which I have cast my vote, I have never voted along any party line nor limited my choices to those mainstream candidates offered. (I have voted libertarian 2 times in my voting life, leaving Dems and Repubs to receiving my vote 32 times)

I have no desire to prove anything as far as what you call yourself.....I get called a repub all the time and I am NOT....

but, when someone advocates liberal policies, it is natural for me to want to call them a liberal...

Sorry if I got you undies all squashed up your crack...

I'm going commando, so there are no undies to crawl up my crack.

So you do judge a book by its cover then. . .

I think by that standard then you are self categorizing as an elitist.

Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2010, 02:49:26 PM
I'm going commando, so there are no undies to crawl up my crack.

So you do judge a book by its cover then. . .

I think by that standard then you are self categorizing as an elitist.

EXACTLY...THAT is what I have been claiming about certain individuals on here for ever....I am simply giving you guys a taste of your own medicene....

I see this EVERYDAY on here...such as....those who like Palin are just the nascar crowd....or you must have a low IQ if you follow Bush....

Elitists is EXACTLY the word I have been looking for...or Arrogant or Pompus...it also fits... :razz:

oh, btw.....the commando thing was way tmi... :spooked:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 03:10:50 PM

EXACTLY...THAT is what I have been claiming about certain individuals on here for ever....I am simply giving you guys a taste of your own medicene....

I see this EVERYDAY on here...such as....those who like Palin are just the nascar crowd....or you must have a low IQ if you follow Bush....

Elitists is EXACTLY the word I have been looking for...or Arrogant or Pompus...it also fits... :razz:

oh, btw.....the commando thing was way tmi... :spooked:

So now I am an elitist?  :rolleyes:

Okay. Have it your way Burger King. . .

I tire of trying to share what the sum of my education and experience has proven to me to be correct.

You are right about one thing, time will tell. And when it does I'll be sure to remind you.

Quote from: Olias on February 17, 2010, 10:06:45 AM
This source says his IQ is 91.

Yeah, there isn't any way his IQ is in the 125-130 range even if he does seem pretty smart to those with IQ's of 80.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 01:24:18 PM
I pains you folks to admit, that Obama is NOT remotely close to perfect....he has a lot of baggage that YOU guys ALWAYS avoid, and ALWAYS turn it to Bush...

Why not just call him an uppity negro and be done with it?

Quote from: me on February 17, 2010, 02:06:32 PM
Ya better check you're sources a little better next time dude:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp

:rotfl:

I guess you didn't notice the little smiley face at the end of my post.

But tell me this. How is it that you can't check your own sources before you post those ridiculous stories about grapes can't grow in England?

I did like that one line from Henry ... "I am simply giving you guys a taste of your own medicene[sic]...."

:razz:

And let's revisit that SAT score comparison ....

Bush - 1206
Gore - 1300

:wink:

Locutus - 1450

;D

Exterminator - 1430.   :razz:

bump

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2010, 09:54:50 AM
From the American Thinker...

Bush or Obama: The Quiz

1. President Bush was famous for lacking "intellectual curiosity (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/18/cafferty.mccain/index.html)," while President Obama has been called "the smartest guy ever to become President (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCV9ZoV--BY)." Who reads more books: Bush or Obama?

2. Bush was often considered to be in the grip of Big Oil (http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2008/06/14/front/792793.txt). In contrast, Obama is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Which industry contributed more than five times as much as the other to politicians: the oil & gas industry, or lawyers/law firms?

3. Bush's Christian faith was at the core of his political identity, and he was considered to be in the grip of the "religious right," while Obama is considered more open-minded. In fact, Obama has said, "my faith is one that admits some doubt." Which one refers to Jesus more in public speeches?

4. Bush was criticized for excessive federal spending and running up huge deficits.  Bush's deficit in 2008 was the largest in history.  In fact, President Obama said,

It's a little hard for me to take criticism from folks about this recovery package after they've presided over a doubling of the national debt ... What I won't do is return to the failed theories of the last eight years that got us into this fix in the first place.

Whose deficit was more than triple the size of the other's: Bush's in 2008 or Obama's in 2009?

5. While Obama criticized Bush for "a doubling of the national debt," the federal debt held by the public went from 35.1% of GDP in 2000 to 40.8% of GDP in 2008 -- an increase of 16% as of fraction of GDP. What is it expected to be in 2016 under Obama's budget plan?

6.  Obama criticized Bush for Guantanamo, military tribunals, wiretaps, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and "signing statements." Which one of these Bush practices has Obama ended?

Answers:

1. Bush. Obama started reading a book in April and had not finished it by June, putting him on a pace of no more than ten books per year. Bush read forty to ninety-five books (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/02/obama-keeping-up-with-bushs-reading-pace/) a year while President, not counting a new and complete reading of the Bible every year. Bush scored 1206 on his SAT, putting his IQ in the 125-130 range, smarter than 95% of the population and in the company of Lincoln, Rousseau, and Thackeray. He graduated from Yale and earned an MBA from Harvard. Obama earned a law degree from Harvard, but has not released any of his academic records. Despite what you might have heard, we know nothing of his IQ, test scores, or grades from any of the schools he attended.

2. Law firms. In the 2010 cycle so far (http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/industries.php), Lawyers/Law Firms have contributed $33,779,866 (81% to Democrats), and the Oil & Gas industry has contributed $6,293,631 (34% to Democrats). In the 2008 cycle (http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/industries.php), the numbers were $233,499,989 (76% to Dems) from lawyers and $35,564,322 (23% to Dems). In all, lawyers contributed about six times more to politicians than the Oil & Gas industry.

3. Obama. Per Eamon Javers at Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23510.html), "As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches -- something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings."

4. Obama's 2009 deficit, the largest in U.S. history. It was more than three times that of Bush's record 2008 deficit. Per the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10708/11-9-09MBR.pdf), the 2008 deficit was $455 B, and the 2009 deficit was $1,417 B. As a fraction of GDP, it was the largest deficit since 1945.

5.  The CBO (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/102xx/doc10296/06-16-AnalysisPresBudget_forWeb.pdf) expects the debt held by the public to be 77.1% of GDP in 2016 under Obama's plan, or an increase of 89% as a fraction of GDP, and the highest level since 1950.

6. None.

Guantanamo is still open (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D989ENI80&show_article=1) and probably will be into 2010, maybe longer.
Obama is keeping (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/16/politics/main5018988.shtml.) military tribunals and clandestine wiretapping programs.
Obama plans to keep most troops in Iraq (http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-02-26-marine_N.htm) until the summer of 2010.  Even then, he is talking of keeping about 50,000 troops there (compared to about 124,000 now (http://www.brookings.edu/saban/~/media/Files/Centers/Saban/Iraq%20Index/index.ashx)). The number of US troops in Afghanistan increased (http://www.brookings.edu/foreign-policy/~/media/Files/Programs/FP/afghanistan%20index/index.ashx) from 37,000 in January 2009 to 62,000 by August 2009, and Obama is expected to send over 30,000 more (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/78516.html). Total number of US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan has increased under Obama so far (from about 184,000 in January to 186,000 in September).
Obama has used signing statements (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/obama-will-cont.html.) himself.

    Answers:
     

Quote1. Bush. Obama started reading a book in April and had not finished it by June, putting him on a pace of no more than ten books per year. Bush read forty to ninety-five books a year while President, not counting a new and complete reading of the Bible every year. Bush scored 1206 on his SAT, putting his IQ in the 125-130 range, smarter than 95% of the population and in the company of Lincoln, Rousseau, and Thackeray. He graduated from Yale and earned an MBA from Harvard. Obama earned a law degree from Harvard, but has not released any of his academic records. Despite what you might have heard, we know nothing of his IQ, test scores, or grades from any of the schools he attended.

Dr. Suess books do not count so subtract those from the shrub's annual total and what are you left with?
I'm amazed he kept having to re-read that book of parables though. Once or twice through that thing and you pretty much understand it. (Except for the contradictions). At least for most who read it anyway.

The rest of this 'talking point" is nothing more than sour grapes over an individual and constitutional right to privacy. . .  Enough said.
     

Quote
    2. Law firms. In the 2010 cycle so far, Lawyers/Law Firms have contributed $33,779,866 (81% to Democrats), and the Oil & Gas industry has contributed $6,293,631 (34% to Democrats). In the 2008 cycle, the numbers were $233,499,989 (76% to Dems) from lawyers and $35,564,322 (23% to Dems). In all, lawyers contributed about six times more to politicians than the Oil & Gas industry.

Once again I will state that if this is such an important issue then where is the outrage surrounding the SCOTUS decision that amplifies this problem one thousand times at minimum? The next round of elections will drive the point home, and while you are whining about it and trying to blame it on the POTUS, the rest of us will be here reminding you that we told you this was going to happen.
     

Quote3. Obama. Per Eamon Javers at Politico, "As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches -- something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings."

Another talking point that bring religion into the political arena. So what's your complaint now? Is it that he is a Muslim/black Muslim that is utilizing your shrub's tactics, or just the fact that it is a democrat? Smoke screen and more noise polluting the thought process. Deserves no response. 
   

Quote
    4. Obama's 2009 deficit, the largest in U.S. history. It was more than three times that of Bush's record 2008 deficit. Per the Congressional Budget Office, the 2008 deficit was $455 B, and the 2009 deficit was $1,417 B. As a fraction of GDP, it was the largest deficit since 1945.

In his state of the union address the POTUS outlined the origins for this deficit and laid claim to his administrations contributions to it. Guess this "point" answers the question surrounding why he took the time to do it huh!
     

Quote. . .
     
    Guantanamo is still open and probably will be into 2010, maybe longer.

So where are we going to place those currently held there? A partial answer is that facility the government purchased in northern Illinois, but what about the rest of them? You want to see them housed in Pendleton, or Marion County facilities? If so just say the word and I am sure the government would be more than happy to close this facility down.

What happened to that desire for taking the time to formulate a strategic plan?

Quote
    Obama is keeping military tribunals and clandestine wiretapping programs.

Okay, I still don't like it, but why is this now an issue? When the shrub was sitting in the chair it was all good!

QuoteObama plans to keep most troops in Iraq until the summer of 2010.  Even then, he is talking of keeping about 50,000 troops there (compared to about 124,000 now). The number of US troops in Afghanistan increased from 37,000 in January 2009 to 62,000 by August 2009, and Obama is expected to send over 30,000 more. Total number of US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan has increased under Obama so far (from about 184,000 in January to 186,000 in September).

Okay, first you want more then when he does it you complain about that too. Clearly no matter what he does you won't be satisfied; not that satisfying you or anyone else is important to the CEO of this nation.

His job is to do what is best for this country, and he is doing that to the best of his ability and within the limitations placed upon him by congress, (BOTH sides of the aisle), and despite the plethora of half-truths  and outright lies such as this very "article".

He has set forth a detailed and responsible plan for removing us from Iraq, regaining the control we abdicated in Afghanistan when we moved focus to Iraq, and bringing an end to the hemorrhaging of finances this initiative is driving in this country and the world.

What would you do?

Thanks for at least anwering this....I find them typical "liberal" answers....oh, I know YOU say you are not a liberal, but if it walk like a duck and quacks like one, well... :razz:  ...(Just joking of course... ;) ;D  )

I would love for just one of you guys to talk about something you don't like about Obama, but you act as if he actually IS the anoited one...(I'm not saying YOU ph, but many of you guys do)...

1.) I'm so sick of the Obama lovers act as if this guy is the most intelligent man to ever walk into washington....all I see is a man who has broken one campaign promise after another....I have already clearly illustrated such, many times...

2.) Put away the SCOTUS decision for a moment....and look at what was posted.  Does THAT not mean anything to you?.....Law firms are just as cumbersome to the election process that you complain about, but all you and yours can do is slam Big Oil....I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the left.

3.) Again just pointing out something that seemed to bother YOU quite a bit...when a politician where's his religion on his shirt sleeve...but, again, Obama gets a pass.

4.) Obama preaches in speeches how WE have to be "frugal" with OUR money...He keeps saying that the US has to quit spending money, but then he has allowed spending at a ridicules rate....again, lets stay intellectulally honest here..

5.) Again, it was Obama that made THIS a campaign ISSUE...it was HIS promise, no one elses.  I have NO problem with him keeping it as it is.....

as far as his handling of Iraq, well the hard part was pretty much done before he took office...as far as Afghanitstan...He is doing okay, I think he could have given the General the number of troops he asked for and not been so slow to talk to him, but, I give him so props for this area...

I also give him some props for wanting to build some nuclear power plants... :yes:

Speaking of hypocrisy. . .

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16648.0 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16648.0)

Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2010, 02:11:23 PM
Speaking of hypocrisy. . .

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16648.0 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16648.0)

nothing to prove to me, I never said that republicans was not hypocrits, there are enough on both sides, that is why we have a tea party movement....to stop the BS spending.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2010, 02:29:17 PM
nothing to prove to me, I never said that republicans was not hypocrits, there are enough on both sides, that is why we have a tea party movement....to stop the BS spending.

Those tea-baggers are predominately white republicans. Therein lies the hypocrisy in part; ZERO republicans voted in favor of the stimulus but ALL of them stepped up to take credit for it.  :rolleyes:

They rail against it at tea bagger events, then turn around and grab the credit when the money is being passed out! The whole time stirring people against it. . . And people are naive enough to believe them when they say it isn't working! Look at the "projects" these people are taking credit for and having their photographs taken at; a LOT of them are stimulus funded projects.

you are making this a race issue...

the tea party movement will be against ANYBODY who is spending...Hannity has a website, that points out those who are voting for what...and even Hannity is holding repubs accountable....I don't think you guys understand who IS at the tea partys....it is NOT a republican vs. democrat thing....it is a sick and tired of Washington DC thing, who is spending money we do not have....

now there are many, who ARE simply repubs bashing the liberals....but, the vast majority of them ... honestly get it.

The dems are getting hit hardest because it is THEY who are in charge of the WH, the Senate and congress....but, for me, and I know many, I am a conservative, who want's conservatives in charge who has conservative values....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2010, 02:47:36 PM
you are making this a race issue...

....but, for me, and I know many, I am a conservative, who want's conservatives in charge who has conservative values....

No I am not. Just stating facts.

Then why did you get so giddy over EB's choice to not seek another term in the Senate? His reasons for pulling out reflect conservative values.

Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2010, 02:52:44 PM
No I am not. Just stating facts.

Then why did you get so giddy over EB's choice to not seek another term in the Senate? His reasons for pulling out reflect conservative values.

bullshit....he was not even CLOSE to a conservative....just becasue he talked moderate, he was no ways near being a conservative....when it came down to it....he DID vote party line, MOST of the time...

quit putting words IN my mouth PH.....who said I was giddy?...you just assumed that....to be honest, I liked him better than Luger....i would have rather had Luger out and Bayh in....so, NOW this may be the best, hopefully, in a couple of years we will have two conservative Senators instead of two moderates.

Whatever dude. It's all right here in black and white.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2010, 02:01:01 PM
1.) I'm so sick of the Obama lovers act as if this guy is the most intelligent man to ever walk into washington....all I see is an uppity negro.

FTFY!

Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2010, 04:53:52 PM
FTFY!

:rolleyes:

It is what it is.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2010, 09:20:19 AM
It is what it is.

but you are 100% wrong...

Nope.

YES, you are without a doubt, W R O N G!!!!...a billion percent wrong...not even remotely close to be right on this one pal......ZERO, ZILCH, NATTA!.....YOU, are DEAD WRONG!!...

Just because you don't recognize it or want it to be right doesn't mean it isn't.

Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2010, 11:41:49 AM
Just because you don't recognize it or want it to be right doesn't mean it isn't.

and just because YOU THINK it is, doesn't mean it is....I can tell you for FACT, you are WRONG...deal with it.

Don't try to tell me what I mean.....I can honestly care less about skin color...I DO care about his arrogant, egotistical narcissism that he flaunts....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 19, 2010, 12:30:56 PM
I DO care about his arrogant, egotistical narcissism that he flaunts....

Read: uppity negro.

Meghan McCain see it for what it is as well. (http://rawstory.com/2010/02/meghan-mccain-tea-party-represents-innate-racism/)

Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2010, 01:21:21 PM
Read: uppity negro.

then you need to learn how to read then... :rolleyes:   

Denial...not a river in Egypt.

This country that I am personally proud of despite the overbearence of political correctness is still known as the melting pot of the world.  We literally have people from all corners of the earth here, some rich, some poor, some healthy, some sick, and mostly all are here simply raising a family and making a living.  We ALL are here, because either our parents and/or grand parents escaped where they once lived, to pursue happiness.  Despite the hardships, the mountains that had to be climbed and the pitfalls that were crossed, the decision was made because this was and is the land of opportunity.  No other place on earth has prospered as much as the "land of milk and honey".  Our grandparents and parents did not come here for a "free ride" or because they could expect or government to take care of them.  They simply wanted the opportunities to live their lives and raise a family, to pursue dreams and to leave a better life for their children.  I am positive that the vast majority of these folks were thankful to their God, for all of their blessings that they believed to be bestowed upon them.  Grateful is a word that cannot be overused.
But, in this day and time, it is my impression that the word "grateful" is not as popular as it once was.  I think it is expected to receive the "blessings" that our forefathers established through hard work, risks and sacrifices.  Our government has made it possible to live a full life without ever having to work a day in our lives if one was to choose to.  We have had young girls become pregnant, and get money to raise that child from our government and simply pass that lifestyle on to the next generation.  A cradle to grave standard of living. I'm not saying that I do not pity these circumstances, because that was a "way" of survival for many, many families. Our government, I'm sure with some very good intentions by those who fought to institute these methods of societal protection.  I think that we have created a bred of "Americans" that know no other way to live, without this government stepping in and "rescuing" them.  The environment of the land of opportunity is evaporating.  I have gotten to know many great, great people (some on this forum), who embrace this "socialistic" approach to governing our lives.  Expectations of having this government in control all aspects or our lives.  Our diets, (what we should and should not eat) our cars, (what is the most environmentally friendly) our children, (what is good for them to watch on TV or how we should discipline them) and coming soon, our Doctors, (when and where we will go to them), our money, (where we should invest and how much we can invest) and our homes (how we build them, where and what we put in them.)...this part can go on and on, but that is not where I am going with all of this.
Many kids and young adults today (and some not so young) fully expect to be able to live lives as our parents and grandparents once did.  What they are forgetting is that there was much blood, sweat and tears involved to reach that level of lifestyle.  I also think that some of the immigrants these days do not come into this country with the same expectations as did the immigrants of yesteryear.  I feel that way too many are here with expectations of our government to take care of them, and I can hardly blame them, because of the liberal folks who are citizens here are making it that way for them.  It is that "social" form of thinking once again, that our government is the cure for all problems.  Reagan once said, government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem.  Boy, do I ever agree with that.  Don't get me wrong, I know we must have a government, and they DO have a role in our lives.  It must be a limited form of government, and we have lost all concept of the term "limited."
We need to and MUST get back to that concept of a limited form of government......
More to come later.....

coming to terms with who I am...a white, conservative, Christian family man....is not a bad thing as many would like to make others believe....

feeling good!... :yes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 03, 2010, 02:02:59 PM
coming to terms with who I am...a white, conservative, Christian family man....is not a bad thing as many would like to make others believe....

feeling good!... :yes:

Good attitude HH.  Don't let them beat you down.  I hate mind games and that is exactly what is being played by the left.

I cannot help but feel very frustrated as of lately, because of how those on the left are trying so "desperately" to make anyone who has opposing views be the bad guy.....and I will be damned if I am going to sit back and take it.  I will not, back down from my opinions of how I see this country should be led.  I have been called many names in my life of this forum, and I have always taken it in stride.  I have chosen to stay here because of the relationships that I have developed over the years here.  I do respect "most' folks here, and despite the vast differences of opinions, I can look past that and simply "take it for what it is worth" mentality.

I have not wavered from my beliefs since my first day of posting....but; I have grown into being a more respectful person, because of many of you guys.  One particular person on here once told me to "consider other perspectives from time-to-time, even if they are in direct conflict with your own"...and I took that to heart and I sincerely appreciated those words, as a mater of fact I still do.... But it seems that very advice can be utilized on both sides of the political quorum....
I have my very strong opinions, not based on FoxNews or Glen Beck or Rush....although, I cannot say that I do not agree with them from time to time...on most issues.  This has become an propagandic attack by the left, to demonize those who have powerful voices from anything other than the typical liberal mentality...There are now voices that have drowned out the once powerful voices that flooded the 6 o'clock news......  They are not used to that because they are so used to having the media in there back pocket for so many years.

In the last few years here, I have been referred to as a Christian "zealot"...a right wing "nut-job"...a "dumbass"...that I make my opinions based on "emotions rather than logic"...I have been criticized and criticized...and that is okay, because I have "chosen" to be here.

I almost always support my posts with a source.....but that is always not enough....it is always from a "bad" source or just a "source" that suits my beliefs.....

Well, YES, I do go out and find sources that suit my beliefs.....why would I do otherwise?....you guys supply plenty of those....

Up until recently, I have always just let things roll off onto the floor....and move on.

I have posted before about my strong faith in God, and my firm stance on conservative values.....because it is my belief that is what we need to turn this country around.  We are heading into some very difficult times, more than we have already faced.... Before, I always just blew them off, because I had faith in our system....and I still do, but I can see a day when our system is broken, and I think it is heading that way at a high rate of speed.....I think THIS is an example of when one party has too much control.....and that is why there are Tea Parties sprouting up ALL over this nation....yet, the left just writes it off as some "radical" tea-bagger, white trash, bigoted, raciest, rednecks......they are (WE ARE) not...we are your typical, day-to-day, blue collar workers.....I know for a fact, because I am around them, I work with them, I live next to them....and like I have said before on here, "time will tell us the truth".....

I love God...
I love my family...
I love America...

In that order....there is absolutely NOTHING that can alter those three loves that I have...NOTHING!!...nobody can intimidate me, or harass me into thinking any differently.

It seems as if a time has come where the discussion of politics for me has come to a crossroads....I am pretty sure that there is nothing I can say or do that will change any of my forum bro's and sisters minds, as I am perfectly confident that there is nothing that hasn't already been said to persuade my mind.

So here I am, frustrated and banging away at this keyboard, hoping that somehow I am being therapeutically renovated.   I may be over reacting, but for some reason, I feel so strongly, that I needed to say what I said....maybe just to get it off of my chest, but I think it has grown much deeper than that.

  You say you can see our system being broken.  Your are 100% right.

  It was broken by people like you who voted and supported the people who broke it.

   :fireworks:  :pink:  The Reipublican Party and the Predatory Capitalist.  :pink:  :fireworks:

I know I have not contributed to this forum much lately, but I have been spending my time, collecting my thoughts.  I have allowed myself to become upset with all of the chatter going on recently.  It has really slapped me in the face that the term "common sense" has left the building.

Common Sense....it IS absent in Washington DC ....it makes me wonder exactly....Just how much longer can this Country survive without "Common Sense"?
 
I also think this Nation had become SO full of apathy, that we allowed the wolves to get dressed in their "sheep's" clothing RIGHT in front of us, and we even complimented them as they stood in front of the mirror before they charged into the flocks.

We are having an awaking in America right now.  People began gathering together, in the form of Tea Parties, though they have been demonized into other names that these wolves dreamed up.  They have been deceived enough!  To most folks at these gatherings, they have realized that, "Common Sense", has left the building.

Has anyone else picked up on the fact that this administration and congress has made EVERYTHING an "EMERGENCY" situation?

IT is like, we MUST pass this bill or, or, or...ELSE!  To the point the congress themselves have not even read the bill themselves, before THEY voted for it.  Let's jump off of the cliff, AND THEN figure out IF it was the right thing to do as we plunge towards earth.

It was a National Emergency, to pass the Healthcare Bill; it just HAD to be passed.  The wolves claimed if it didn't happen immediately, people were going to die.  They PUSHED it through, and now we have to wait two or three years to implement most of it.  Now that it is done, word has it that HC cost is going to rise more than 15% this next year.  The taxpayers will once again, pick up the bill, but NOW, we have good ol' Uncle Sam becoming the "NEW" accountant for this NEWLY installed "government controlled" agency.  Check out how well our Medicaid, Medicare and VA Hospitals are doing with this fine agency at the helm....again, "Common Sense", has left the building! 

When the POTUS first go elected, it was absolutely an EMERGENCY that Congress passes an $800+ billion dollars for stimulus bill.....so we can get our economy back on path and create millions of jobs so we can hold the unemployment levels below 9%.....URGENT!!.... There was no time for talk!

Almost two years later, our unemployment rate has risen to nearly 10% and the economy remains sluggish. The stimulus money is all but unaccounted for even though over $500 billion dollars has gone somewhere..... Where is the common sense?

Let's move on to the "Cap & Trade" bill.  Another "Emergency"!...Most American really does not understand the outcome of the consequences that this legislation will have on our lives. The Wolves demand that it is simply some laws set to encourage big business to find alternatives to fossil fuels. Theses Wolves fail to see the fact that, in most cases, the power flowing into our homes and businesses is produced with these fuels because that is the most economical process in that given area. The cost impact on the average citizen would be left to pay for this, during some very difficult economic times... Common Sense", has left the building!

When we start sticking it to the "man" to pay for what the Wolves are claiming an Emergency or the world is doomed, that cost WILL be passed on to the blue collar American to pay for, just so the wolves can say they are just trying to make us environmentally friendly, something we ALL want to be.  But at who's expense?....IT just  is NOT commons sense.

Illegal immigration, another EMERGENCY issue that the wolves are screaming!!! We must grant them immunity and make them ALL citizens!!!....Instead of using "Common Sense", and closing our boarders to stop the bleeding and penalizing those who are hiring those who do not have proper "green cards" or actual citizens.  Instead of enforcing laws we already have in place, we must become "URGENT" and pass amnesty laws.... Common Sense", has left the building!

I think it makes perfect sense to the "Wolves" to just let these guys in, make them citizens, so they can build a voters base, to keep them "fed".

How about the Bush Tax Cuts that are set to expire at the end of this year?...Something that actually IS somewhat urgent, something that WILL actually effect our economy, but the wolves have decided to adjourn for the season.

Of course the head wolf, is now saying that there is NO urgency that we all need to be patient to let all of these URGENCIES run their course.

The American people do realize now that there IS an EMERGENCY!!....Our national debt is becoming very, very critical!!  Most economists believe the financial health of the country is becoming extremely unstable, because our debt to GDP ratio is approaching a 1 to 1 relationship. Common sense does tell most Americans that an emergency DOES exist.
 
We are making unwise decisions before the wise can weigh the facts.
Common sense is something that most folks have, for many of us it is a simple whisper in our ears that tells us to "slow down"...."something is NOT right"!!....commons sense!  What happened to it?

Do we live in the same country?

  Yes, I for one can say I have missed your bullshit on the economy.  More tax breaks for the super rich predatory capitalist.  It made for good fiction reading.

  You and your Republican Party sat on its hands and let the corporations rob, cheat steal and destroy the middle class of it's jobs and assets.  We are broke because of this.  With the 29 million jobs you and your party let the corporations to send out of the country.  Plus you gave a tax break for doing it.

  Henry you and your Republican Party has lost all creditability with me.  How can 100% of the adult men vote No on every bill.  How can you guys be credible with going away with the minimum wage.  Do way with Social Social Security..  Do away with Medicare.  Destroy the labor unions.  Do away with all regulations that keeps the corporations, banks and the stock market in control.

  And all  you can say is, cut taxes.  Then you talk about deficits.  And talk about a big, big joke, the Teaparty.  What a bunch of jokers and clowns.

  I don't see you with one bit of common sense.  None.  You would like to dig up George W and Cheney and let them run the country for another 8 years. 

Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 04, 2010, 11:22:02 AM
Almost two years later, our unemployment rate has risen to nearly 10% and the economy remains sluggish. The stimulus money is all but unaccounted for even though over $500 billion dollars has gone somewhere...

This paragraph intrigued me, so I went looking. Actually, the stimulus money is accounted for. And the jury is still out on its effectiveness. Check this link (the least histrionically written of all those I read):

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/104252574.html

Now, Johnson and Feingold are both career politicians, so y'all know we can't trust a word they say. However, the second half of the article is more interesting.  For example:

Menzie Chinn, another UW economist, points out that, as big as the stimulus was, it represents a relatively small percentage of $14 trillion of gross domestic product.

"Lots of people say the stimulus was too small," Chinn said. "And the big chunk of the deficit is because our tax revenues collapsed." (emphasis mine)

Anyway, nowhere I looked could I find confirmation that "The stimulus money is all but unaccounted for," so I would appreciate you sharing your source for that statement, Hank.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/economy/spending_stimulus_money/index.htm?postversion=2009050513 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/economy/spending_stimulus_money/index.htm?postversion=2009050513)

here is one source Lolly, that pretty much got me to think the way I am....a pie chart shows $499 billion, STILL not spent, but allocated....wtf?  how is that making THIS the "summer of recovery"?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 05, 2010, 02:56:45 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/economy/spending_stimulus_money/index.htm?postversion=2009050513 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/economy/spending_stimulus_money/index.htm?postversion=2009050513)

here is one source Lolly, that pretty much got me to think the way I am....a pie chart shows $499 billion, STILL not spent, but allocated....wtf?  how is that making THIS the "summer of recovery"?

Whoa! But you said ...

"The stimulus money is all but unaccounted for even though over $500 billion dollars has gone somewhere"

It has been accounted for as your chart shows. There is a HUGE difference between "unaccounted for" and "allocated."

And how can you blame the bureaucracy of the states on the Obama administration?

From your article ....

"That's because states have to jump through hoops before they can claim the funds and put them to use. Some have to get approval from their legislatures before they can spend the money. Others must wait for municipalities and school districts to submit applications to state agencies before distributing the dollars."

"Some states need legislative approval before they can start spending their slice of the stimulus pie. This can be a time-consuming process.

Take Florida. State officials only received the okay to spend $1.35 billion in highway and bridge projects on April 15, when the legislative budget commission met. The state's transportation department also consulted with cities, counties and metropolitan planning organizations to pare down its initial list of $7 billion in infrastructure projects."

:rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 05, 2010, 02:56:45 PM

here is one source Lolly, that pretty much got me to think the way I am....a pie chart shows $499 billion, STILL not spent, but allocated....wtf?

Umm .... Henry? That source is dated May 5, 2009. That's one year and five months ago. Now since the bill had only passed in late February of that year (that's only about two and a half months before this article was published) I don't find it particularly gasp-worthy that $499 billion was still in the account at that time. I'm fairly certain that in the seventeen months since the appearance of the article, more disbursements have taken place. As Olias points out, the funds had been allocated, even way back then. Betcha they have all been passed out as planned in the (in case you haven't yet grasped the point) SEVENTEEN MONTHS! since your sky-is-falling article was published.

You need to pay a little more attention to the details, and not knee-jerk so quickly over some out-dated, slanted piece of propaganda that appears in your in-box.

Quote from: LOsborne on October 05, 2010, 07:04:53 PM

Umm .... Henry? That source is dated May 5, 2009. That's one year and five months ago. Now since the bill had only passed in late February of that year (that's only about two and a half months before this article was published) I don't find it particularly gasp-worthy that $499 billion was still in the account at that time. I'm fairly certain that in the seventeen months since the appearance of the article, more disbursements have taken place. As Olias points out, the funds had been allocated, even way back then. Betcha they have all been passed out as planned in the (in case you haven't yet grasped the point) SEVENTEEN MONTHS! since your sky-is-falling article was published.

You need to pay a little more attention to the details, and not knee-jerk so quickly over some out-dated, slanted piece of propaganda that appears in your in-box.

Yeah! That, too!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

 :lipsrsealed2:

Quote from: Palehorse on October 06, 2010, 11:32:41 AM
:lipsrsealed2:

I know I'm guilty.... :lipsrsealed2:  from now on...sorry, I had a week moment. :no:

How ya been Henry? I was hoping you hadn't flown the coop. Us creatures of the forest have to stick together.

I see where the most transparent administration in history blocked the estimates of that BP oil spill.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101006/pl_nm/us_oil_spill_whouse_3 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101006/pl_nm/us_oil_spill_whouse_3)

  Lester, how do you like your chicken :chick:  With you fingers or on a stick :poke: cooked :stirthepot: or raw.

Quote from: Lester Sasquatch on October 06, 2010, 05:26:45 PM
How ya been Henry? I was hoping you hadn't flown the coop. Us creatures of the forest have to stick together.

I see where the most transparent administration in history blocked the estimates of that BP oil spill.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101006/pl_nm/us_oil_spill_whouse_3 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101006/pl_nm/us_oil_spill_whouse_3)

I'm doing wonderful Lester...I'm taking a break.  Take notice when you post something on here that makes excellent sense, such as the BP link you posted....NO one else will comment on it.

I'll be back in action soon enough, but I may take the Palehorse route and lay low on the Politics and Religion...it is tough when you are right about everything all the time and nobody appreciates it... ;D ..(jest jokin)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 07, 2010, 05:07:17 PM
Take notice when you post something on here that makes excellent sense, such as the BP link you posted....NO one else will comment on it.

I would have commented on it, but I have found that Lester knows what I am thinking (and expresses it better than I could) before I open my mouth. I'm glad two of my favorite guys are getting to know each other.

Quote from: The Troll on October 07, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
  Lester, how do you like your chicken :chick:  With you fingers or on a stick :poke: cooked :stirthepot: or raw.

Depends on what part of the chicken you are talking about. Actually, I am not too picky when it comes to eating Troll.

Quote from: LOsborne on October 07, 2010, 08:01:09 PM
I would have commented on it, but I have found that Lester knows what I am thinking (and expresses it better than I could) before I open my mouth. I'm glad two of my favorite guys are getting to know each other.

awwww, shucks!!!,  :-[  I appreciate that Lolly!... :yes:

Lester has his act together quite well, and I really like what he has to say....AND, he is quite entertaining...

Kumbaya anyone?  :spooked:

Awwww c'mon gimme a hug :hug:

Quote from: Sandy Eggo on October 08, 2010, 02:39:48 PM
Awwww c'mon gimme a hug :hug:

:ride:

Just a few rants to end my year with:

1.  How about them Gas Prices?  I thought you libs said it was all Bush's fault.  Well, funny how they was pretty decent before Obama got elected, and now they are over $3 bucks and rising!  Huh?

2. And don't you all remember how YOUR gal, Nancy Pelosi, was knocking just how dumb Sarah Palin was when she was telling everyone there would be death panels? well, it seems that dumb ol'Sarah was correct,  :wink:

We have now found out that the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research, has in fact, sneaked into the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act - the stimulus bill, of all places, to empower our government to decide what conditions that are hopeless and therefore can/will be left untreated. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/30/lies-damn-lies-and-death-panels/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/30/lies-damn-lies-and-death-panels/)

3. While I am on a roll, as if our economy is not struggling enough, and job creation is non-existent....Obama has cleared the way for our EPA to begin regulating carbon dioxide emissions from the nation's largest power plants and industrial facilities in January....this will enquirer utilities and manufacturing companies to make costly environmental improvements in order to meet EPA objectives. But most of the economic pain will be inflicted on households and small businesses. Consumers could see their monthly power bills climb.....this WILL more than likely force MORE jobs for OTHER countries...

ALL because of Global warming....OOPS!!! I'm mean Climate Control....(got to keep changing that name to fit it's agenda.. :wink: ..right?) because we are having RECORD cold temperatures and now some scientist are saying a Ice Age is NOW coming...
http://tribune-democrat.com/editorials/x480666977/EPA-is-blind-to-failing-economy (http://tribune-democrat.com/editorials/x480666977/EPA-is-blind-to-failing-economy)

4. How about how well NYC is cleaning up their snow mess?...It appears that the Unions are in not too big of hurry to do THEIR job...and they are also short-handed because of their great management skills they have with that strong democrat leadership!!....All of those "regulations" are biting them in the ass now too.....they cannot even get neighbors to come in and help due to this fine piece of legislation..and to boot, even if help does come, they have shot their wad on being a good steward of paying their bills, nobody WANT's to help.  Democrats YOU are the best!! :biggrin: :no:

Btw, under the direction of  Mayor Bloomberg, he keeps raising taxes....to where the top 5% of money earners pay 75% of New York's taxes and these fine folks are leaving as fast as they can....folks like Limbaugh, who has been warning YOU!
democrats about this problem for years now...just another liberal mess. :rant:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sanit_filthy_snow_slow_mo_qH57MZwC53QKOJlekSSDJK

I know guys, it's BUSH's FAULT!!!!  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I have been watching WAY too much news this morning....and has got my year-end dander all riled up!! :razz:

with all of this said, I'm sure the attacks will be coming soon, but just remember ONE thing....

The Hawk loves you despite your lack of understanding what it takes to fix this country....

HAPPY NEW YEAR ZONERS!!! :smitten:

  Henry you poor pathetic dumb ass Republican.  You don't have to tell us it wasn't George W's fault  Hell he couldn't hardly find his own ass.  It was the super rich Republican Party that did this depression to this country.  I do have to say you Republicans sure know how to cause a depression.  Just go back a look at old Republican Herbert Hoover.  Your party did the same thing to America that you did before the Hoover depression.

  While you on your roll will you please tell me and the rest of the people of the Zone.  Which Republican President had a balanced budget and which Republican President didn't have a huge deficit after his term in office.

  Eisenhower, Ford, Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.  I just dieing to hear your answer to this question.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

To troll, I have one last thing to say to you this year........that is this, and listen carefully..;..please!!

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH THAT, is about all that is worth that ever comes out of your mouth....

just ignore the rest of the story...

You need to take those blinders off, and take a look around and really SEE who IS causing MOST of this countries problems.....it is YOUR democrats, who just keep lying and lying and lying....and making things worse and worse and worse......

OPEN your eyes in 2011, and really see what is going on.....it does not take a brain surgeon to figure it out.....I mean REALLY troll....

anyway dude, Have a Happy New Year!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 31, 2010, 11:50:13 AM
Just a few rants to end my year with:

1.  How about them Gas Prices?  I thought you libs said it was all Bush's fault.  Well, funny how they was pretty decent before Obama got elected, and now they are over $3 bucks and rising!  Huh?

2. And don't you all remember how YOUR gal, Nancy Pelosi, was knocking just how dumb Sarah Palin was when she was telling everyone there would be death panels? well, it seems that dumb ol'Sarah was correct,  :wink:

We have now found out that the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research, has in fact, sneaked into the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act - the stimulus bill, of all places, to empower our government to decide what conditions that are hopeless and therefore can/will be left untreated. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/30/lies-damn-lies-and-death-panels/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/30/lies-damn-lies-and-death-panels/)

3. While I am on a roll, as if our economy is not struggling enough, and job creation is non-existent....Obama has cleared the way for our EPA to begin regulating carbon dioxide emissions from the nation's largest power plants and industrial facilities in January....this will enquirer utilities and manufacturing companies to make costly environmental improvements in order to meet EPA objectives. But most of the economic pain will be inflicted on households and small businesses. Consumers could see their monthly power bills climb.....this WILL more than likely force MORE jobs for OTHER countries...

ALL because of Global warming....OOPS!!! I'm mean Climate Control....(got to keep changing that name to fit it's agenda.. :wink: ..right?) because we are having RECORD cold temperatures and now some scientist are saying a Ice Age is NOW coming...
http://tribune-democrat.com/editorials/x480666977/EPA-is-blind-to-failing-economy (http://tribune-democrat.com/editorials/x480666977/EPA-is-blind-to-failing-economy)

4. How about how well NYC is cleaning up their snow mess?...It appears that the Unions are in not too big of hurry to do THEIR job...and they are also short-handed because of their great management skills they have with that strong democrat leadership!!....All of those "regulations" are biting them in the ass now too.....they cannot even get neighbors to come in and help due to this fine piece of legislation..and to boot, even if help does come, they have shot their wad on being a good steward of paying their bills, nobody WANT's to help.  Democrats YOU are the best!! :biggrin: :no:

Btw, under the direction of  Mayor Bloomberg, he keeps raising taxes....to where the top 5% of money earners pay 75% of New York's taxes and these fine folks are leaving as fast as they can....folks like Limbaugh, who has been warning YOU!
democrats about this problem for years now...just another liberal mess. :rant:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sanit_filthy_snow_slow_mo_qH57MZwC53QKOJlekSSDJK

I know guys, it's BUSH's FAULT!!!!  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I have been watching WAY too much news this morning....and has got my year-end dander all riled up!! :razz:

with all of this said, I'm sure the attacks will be coming soon, but just remember ONE thing....

The Hawk loves you despite your lack of understanding what it takes to fix this country....

HAPPY NEW YEAR ZONERS!!! :smitten:

Do you EVER read anything except crap that supports what you want to believe? I'm not joking. You seem to surround yourself with a lot of opinion which conveniently reflects your own and do very little fact checking.

There's plenty out there to disprove every point you've made, but I'm not wasting my time.  One of my New Year's resolutions is to allow someone to remain ignorant if that's their choice. :smile:

Quote from: Sandy Eggo on December 31, 2010, 01:03:06 PM
. . .
There's plenty out there to disprove every point you've made, but I'm not wasting my time.  One of my New Year's resolutions is to allow someone to remain ignorant if that's their choice. :smile:

I am joining you in this resolution! The fact of the matter is when you try to point out the fallacies within their skewed world view they sling crap on you and call you a liberal. . . I am through with it. They want to remain dumb and used, so be it. And when the veil is lifted and they are bleating over their impending slaughter, I will drink coffee and chuckle over their blindness. . . (If I am not dead).

Nah.

In my experience, they blame their misfortunes and impending doom on liberals.

Rush & Glenn told 'em so.

Nah.

In my experience, they blame their misfortunes and impending doom on liberals.

Rush & Glenn told 'em so.

Quote from: followsthewolf on December 31, 2010, 01:35:09 PM
Nah.

In my experience, they blame their misfortunes and impending doom on liberals.

Rush & Glenn told 'em so.

We know the truth though. . . And it will make a rather potent sweetener for our coffee whilst they are bleating!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 31, 2010, 12:16:34 PM
To troll, I have one last thing to say to you this year........that is this, and listen carefully..;..please!!

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH,BLAH, BLAH THAT, is about all that is worth that ever comes out of your mouth....

just ignore the rest of the story...

You need to take those blinders off, and take a look around and really SEE who IS causing MOST of this countries problems.....it is YOUR democrats, who just keep lying and lying and lying....and making things worse and worse and worse......

OPEN your eyes in 2011, and really see what is going on.....it does not take a brain surgeon to figure it out.....I mean REALLY troll....

anyway dude, Have a Happy New Year!

  You still haven't answered my questions.  WHEN DID ANY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET.  2. WHAT REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT WHO DIDN'T HAVE A HUGE DEFICIT.  Come on Henry answer the questions.   :biggrin:

  I have a feeling that the next two years will not be nice to a large group of people.  With more layoffs and job loss.  I hope you and you family makes it though the next two years without a pay cut or job loss.  Happy New Year to you and your family, Henry.

  Your Republican Party will be the cause of depression getting deeper.  Let us :pray:  :preach:  :pope: That America survives :flag:

blah, blah, blah, blah,.............blah, blah, blah blah.............blah, blah blah

that is liberal talk..........

There is not one thing I said that was false....ZERO.


My new year resolution is to sit back and watch the democrats continue to lie and fall apart....they are self destructing.

2006...........and we have gotten worse, the Blame Bush crowd is getting desperate.


Troll, the only reason my job may be in jeopardy now is because the Democrats have not done one damn thing to HELP our economy....they have only spent us into obliviation.....that is a plain and simple FACT.

btw, the last balanced budget was with a republican controlled house and senate....during Clinton's years.  Newt and company with the contract with America did what it took to balance the budget.  I give Clinton credit for being a leader during that time.....Obama has no one to blame but Pelosi and Reid and himself....PERIOD

Happy New Year you ol'fart :razz:

  :blah: :blah:  :blah:  Hawk don't be a chicken shit.  Answers the easy questions and we will see if you're a lying butt hole.

  The economy, if the Republicans get their way and only work on making Obama a one term president and try to pass their cheap asshole and mean laws.  You sure might lose your job.  I don't want you to lose your job, but if you did I would have to laugh out loud and jump up and down with happiness.  Your Republicans have cause a lot of misery in America.  You sure can kiss :kiss: your ass on that one.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  Happy New Year. :kiss:

And a happy new year to you Troll....  :rolleyes:

Quote from: me on January 01, 2011, 02:28:24 PM
And a happy new year to you Troll....  :rolleyes:

  I just love that pissed off look  :rolleyes: look you can give.  :love: you.  I really hope all of us has a good new year.  :kiss:   No sickness, death and no poverty, just happiness.   :yes: :biggrin:

 :gha: :skull:

This morning I am completely and utterly disgusted!

This fucking moron creep who shot the congresswoman over the weekend, is being target by the liberals and the media, as a way to demonize anyone on the right!

This is without a doubt the most hypocritical, (and typical) and wreckless group of individuals that I have ever witnessed in my life.  The man who shot this woman is nothing more and nothing less a nutjob!  and reports are coming in that he IS a liberal who vote democrat.

for anyone to insinuate that this heinous act is somehow a politicaly motivated crime, should not only be bitch slapped, but should be ashamed of themselves.  THIS is exactly the type of rehtoric bullshit that the liberals are claiming that others are doing.  This is being distorted for political gain on it's own right.  A woman lays critical in a hospital.  We ALL should be bonding over her, yet the media wan'ts nothing more than to make this political.  Fuckng disgusting!!! :rant:

This shooter has been scoffing the congresswoman for over three years....at his house, they found hidden within a camouflage tent an alarming altar with a skull sitting atop a pot filled with shriveled oranges.  They found photo's withrows of ceremonial candles. He is part of a the occult!

he if is a freaking nut case...PERIOD!!! nothing more nothing less!!  :rant:

for you who want to make this a political issue,................get the fuck over it!!!




http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html#ixzz1Adk1FfWx

As is your usual wont, Hank, you appear to be creating a Strawman.

Please point out who said this unfortunate incident was directly politically motivated. 

In the end we might know that it was, it wasn't, or we might never know one way or the other with any certainty.

The one point that can be made, and is the actual point I've seen made over and over, NOT the point you appear to be creating out of whole cloth, is that the RW/Conservatives has for years been setting up a toxic climate, and with the inclusion of the the TP'ers anti-government rhetoric has made it a lethal climate.

The hope is that this unfortunate incident, whether politically motivated or not, has shocked you anti-government nitwits to the core and might cause you to stop and rethink your agenda and rhetoric. 

Personally I doubt it.  Y'all are far to full of fear, hate, control issues, and anti-social tendencies.

Please, for everyone's sake, prove me wrong.

Quote from: Y on February 02, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
As is your usual wont, Hank, you appear to be creating a Strawman.

Please point out who said this unfortunate incident was directly politically motivated. 

In the end we might know that it was, it wasn't, or we might never know one way or the other with any certainty.

The one point that can be made, and is the actual point I've seen made over and over, NOT the point you appear to be creating out of whole cloth, is that the RW/Conservatives has for years been setting up a toxic climate, and with the inclusion of the the TP'ers anti-government rhetoric has made it a lethal climate.

The hope is that this unfortunate incident, whether politically motivated or not, has shocked you anti-government nitwits to the core and might cause you to stop and rethink your agenda and rhetoric. 

Personally I doubt it.  Y'all are far to full of fear, hate, control issues, and anti-social tendencies.

Please, for everyone's sake, prove me wrong.

  "Y" I think you're wasting your time.  Henry threw a fit and told the Troll and Palehorse that we were stupid, hardheaded and never would change our minds to the Conservative way of thinking and wasn't going to talk to us any more.   :rot fl:  :rot fl:  :rot fl:  :rot fl:  I told him I would miss fighting with him, but it some how didn't seem fair fighting with someone retarded.

Quote from: The Troll on February 02, 2011, 10:49:09 PM
  "Y" I think you're wasting your time.  Henry threw a fit and told the Troll and Palehorse that we were stupid, hardheaded and never would change our minds to the Conservative way of thinking and wasn't going to talk to us any more.   :rot fl:  :rot fl:  :rot fl:  :rot fl:  I told him I would miss fighting with him, but it some how didn't seem fair fighting with someone retarded.

Troll YOU, sir, are a LIAR!!...I never said such a thing.  I never ONCE said I was not going to talk to you any more.......NEVER.  YOU LIE!  PERIOD

And that is a main reason WHY I have chose not to be as active on here anymore.  I still check in and read.  Just don't have much desire to continue to argue with you.  But, PLEASE, do not continue to make up crap, like you just did.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 03, 2011, 12:57:42 PM
Troll YOU, sir, are a LIAR!!...I never said such a thing.  I never ONCE said I was not going to talk to you any more.......NEVER.  YOU LIE!  PERIOD

And that is a main reason WHY I have chose not to be as active on here anymore.  I still check in and read.  Just don't have much desire to continue to argue with you.  But, PLEASE, do not continue to make up crap, like you just did.

  Glad to see you back.  You sure have not lost your spirit.  Damn I thought I would never miss you.  You bring joy into my heart and fingers for the key board to give the true information that you don't get from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh  and Glen Beck.  I thought PH and I was bringing you around to common sense, but I was wrong.

  But, Henry you sure said you were not going to converse with me.  I'm sorry Pal, but when you said you weren't going to converse, argue with the Troll, I naturally thought you meant talk.

  But with me being so hard headed and refuse to be come a Far Right Christian Conservative, I thought you had dumped me and returned to the dark depths of the Unknown Zone.

  I am so sorry you think I such a Liar.  But Henry I think I tell the honest truth and that I am for the betterment of the middle class people of America.  I sure do want to stop free trade as it is now and I want the American workers back to work.

  Oh, yes, I so sorry that your Republicans didn't get to repeal the "Job killing Obama health care plan"  I won't laugh, but I told you so.  I think that's why you so down on the Troll.  He has been so right on so many things and you have been flat ass wrong.  Sorry Pal.  Just because I'm so old and just about ready to pass on, it really bad when I'm smarter than you.  Just some dumb ass plumber.

  Really think you need to answer "Y" post so he will know you are still with us.  So I hope this post finds you and your family well. 

  So may you live as long as you want and not want as long as you live.  Troll :no1:  :salute:  :tiphat:  :flag:

  How let us pray for Henry.  :pray: :preach:  :pope: and the Holy :ghost:  :dark: 

Welcome back, Henry.

Hi, Henry.

Quote from: followsthewolf on February 04, 2011, 11:05:39 AM
Welcome back, Henry.

  HE'S GONE.  Just like Doc.  He will now just come in and make some out of you're mind remark and beam out, back into space.

  Yep, Doc and Hawk. :ghost:

Hi guys,

Troll, I may or may not come back and participate.  I really think I have run my coarse on here.  I like everyone just fine.  YOU included.  It is just getting old for me.  I have been here since 2006.  I have stated my opinions on here, and I just flat out disagree with most of the people on here.  I don't dislike anyone here.  I have found other ways to vent.  This is as good as forum as you can find.  Maybe some time away will make me change my mind.  I am still planning on stopping by to read, and MAYBE I might respond, but don't have a lot of desire at this point of time.

Have a great one everybody.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 07, 2011, 12:24:52 PM
Hi guys,

Troll, I may or may not come back and participate.  I really think I have run my coarse on here.  I like everyone just fine.  YOU included.  It is just getting old for me.  I have been here since 2006.  I have stated my opinions on here, and I just flat out disagree with most of the people on here.  I don't dislike anyone here.  I have found other ways to vent.  This is as good as forum as you can find.  Maybe some time away will make me change my mind.  I am still planning on stopping by to read, and MAYBE I might respond, but don't have a lot of desire at this point of time.

Have a great one everybody.

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :wink: :wink: :wink: :bliss: :bliss: :) :seeya2:

I know for a fact, that with recent health issues with my wife, I have not been very concerned with the political scene.  Yesterday, I took a few minutes to catch up on some issues.  I feel another "rant" to release....and one thing that got my blood in a boil was the recent announcement that new hiring was far, far below the "expected" number.  Unemployment took a small step the wrong direction.  Now, that we have spent a trillion...again I say a TRILLION dollars on a stimulus that was SUPPOSED  to keep our unemployment from climbing above 8%....we are hovering again around the 10% mark....and, we are flat out BROKE.  This so-called stimulus is one of the biggest political failures to loom this nation in years.   It has not only devalued our dollar, it single handedly ROBBED our private class....where MOST of those BILLIONS went to GOV JOBS...and to feed a few favors on fruitless endeavors.  It took a bad situation and made it much, much worse.

Our biggest hope is that our private sector will take a chance and begin to spend money and bring some heart beat back into this nation.  But, with this administration throwing money around, and bringing more, and more regulations, higher taxes and uncertainties at the small business world they are not too eager to jump in.

So many of you whined and cried when the "Drill, Baby Drill" campaign drew national attention a few years ago.  It is of my opinion, that THIS campaign is so badly needed RIGHT NOW!!  This single handedly could bring this nation BACK to a respectable economic status.  It would not only bring Oil prices back down to a more than decent level, and therefore drop our gas pumps back to levels it has not seen in over five years, it would cease this inflation.  It would also employ several hundred of thousands to the oil industry.  There is many reports of enormous findings of oil in the Dakotas, on DRY LAND, that could bring a stop, in a few short years, to our dependence of oil in the middle east.  I know it could take years to get to that point, but if we had done this when W wanted to in 2001, we would be there today.....

I think it is time for some real "HOPE & CHANGE"....say what you will, but the adversary of this Nation has been in charge now for over 6 years...and we are talking about another double dip recession or yet, a depression.
I know better to post this, because I know it will only bring some ridicule and no one but a select few will understand what I am saying.
 
This is more of a "release" of frustration, and feeding my conservative soul for the means of insanity.
I am at a place in my life, where issues like this are second banana to things that are REALLY important....have a great day.

  Henery I think you worry about the debt to much.  Why because you or I can't do a damn thing about it.  Absolutely not a thing.  But Henery the Republicans aren't the one to do it.  Nor is the Tea Party and you can't do it on the backs of the poor and the middle class workers.

  If you are honest and look at the past practice of the Republican party.  They sure are not the Conservative party they use to be.  Barry Goldwater and Thomas Dewey would be turning over in their graves if they knew the Republican/Tea Party have reached the low level they have.  You know it and so do I.  I don't know what you are going to do with the leaders of your party.  But they sure are not the quality they use to be. 

  Take a deep breath and hope your party finds it way.  But I sure don't see it.  :tiphat:

One thing you fail to take into account is the impact this "trickle down-ward" economic crises is now starting to show. Yeah, the stimulus package propped up local/state governments for 18-20 months, but now the funding has run out; and along the way, state/local governments have had to trim some fat in order to try to stem the bleeding. . .  Hence, the increase to unemployment figures. (In part).

The problem is, the lion's share of those same governmental entities did not cut enough, and I am speculating that the next 30-90 days will see a 20-25% increase in cuts and the corresponding increase to unemployment numbers will go along with them. State and local revenue streams have continued to shrink, and when they tried to make up for it by increasing property tax rates, the citizens of Indiana put a choke collar on them by capping them.

Now we'll see them continue to tack on "fees" to current revenue streams in order to try to make up the difference and conduct business as usual surrounding day to day operation of state and local government. Speeding ticket fines will more than double, you'll pay "fees" for governmental services normally and historically covered by property taxes. . .

And mark my word, soon we'll see a "mileage tax" imposed on the annual distance traveled with each motor vehicle. . . If certain leadership get their way. . .

Today, I began to get a VERY sour taste in my mouth when one of the top dogs at General Motors came out in support of an additional $1.00/US gal gasoline tax!  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's enough to make me want to shit can all of my GM vehicles in favor of a competing brand!  :mad: :mad: :mad:

Quote from: Palehorse on June 07, 2011, 08:44:11 PM
One thing you fail to take into account is the impact this "trickle down-ward" economic crises is now starting to show. Yeah, the stimulus package propped up local/state governments for 18-20 months, but now the funding has run out; and along the way, state/local governments have had to trim some fat in order to try to stem the bleeding. . .  Hence, the increase to unemployment figures. (In part).

The problem is, the lion's share of those same governmental entities did not cut enough, and I am speculating that the next 30-90 days will see a 20-25% increase in cuts and the corresponding increase to unemployment numbers will go along with them. State and local revenue streams have continued to shrink, and when they tried to make up for it by increasing property tax rates, the citizens of Indiana put a choke collar on them by capping them.

Now we'll see them continue to tack on "fees" to current revenue streams in order to try to make up the difference and conduct business as usual surrounding day to day operation of state and local government. Speeding ticket fines will more than double, you'll pay "fees" for governmental services normally and historically covered by property taxes. . .

And mark my word, soon we'll see a "mileage tax" imposed on the annual distance traveled with each motor vehicle. . . If certain leadership get their way. . .

Today, I began to get a VERY sour taste in my mouth when one of the top dogs at General Motors came out in support of an additional $1.00/US gal gasoline tax!  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's enough to make me want to shit can all of my GM vehicles in favor of a competing brand!  :mad: :mad: :mad:

  Why should he care about a dollar more in gas  tax.  Every time he takes his company car, any of the many GM cars he wants and he drives it in to his air conditioned garage at the world headquarters.  A GM employee take the car and fills it up, changes the oil and wash and details it and I do mean spit shine it.  On the road he take out his GM credit card and charges all of the gas plus any other thing else to GM. 

  Hell, I would go for this and wouldn't give a damn what gas cost.  It must be nice to be at the top of the pile in life.   :biggrin:

Quote from: Palehorse on June 07, 2011, 08:44:11 PM
One thing you fail to take into account is the impact this "trickle down-ward" economic crises is now starting to show. Yeah, the stimulus package propped up local/state governments for 18-20 months, but now the funding has run out; and along the way, state/local governments have had to trim some fat in order to try to stem the bleeding. . .  Hence, the increase to unemployment figures. (In part).

The problem is, the lion's share of those same governmental entities did not cut enough, and I am speculating that the next 30-90 days will see a 20-25% increase in cuts and the corresponding increase to unemployment numbers will go along with them. State and local revenue streams have continued to shrink, and when they tried to make up for it by increasing property tax rates, the citizens of Indiana put a choke collar on them by capping them.

Now we'll see them continue to tack on "fees" to current revenue streams in order to try to make up the difference and conduct business as usual surrounding day to day operation of state and local government. Speeding ticket fines will more than double, you'll pay "fees" for governmental services normally and historically covered by property taxes. . .

And mark my word, soon we'll see a "mileage tax" imposed on the annual distance traveled with each motor vehicle. . . If certain leadership get their way. . .

Today, I began to get a VERY sour taste in my mouth when one of the top dogs at General Motors came out in support of an additional $1.00/US gal gasoline tax!  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's enough to make me want to shit can all of my GM vehicles in favor of a competing brand!  :mad: :mad: :mad:

Again, this is exactly WHY, the gov needs to stay OUT!......talk about sticking it to the poor and middle class...........this is supported by many democrats, including Obama!!!  This WILL force inflation and completely bring the economy to a halt!!!!

and you bet your behind, that I would NEVER, buy another GM product AGAIN!!!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2011, 08:08:39 AM
Again, this is exactly WHY, the gov needs to stay OUT!......talk about sticking it to the poor and middle class...........this is supported by many democrats, including Obama!!!  This WILL force inflation and completely bring the economy to a halt!!!!

and you bet your behind, that I would NEVER, buy another GM product AGAIN!!!

  Yep, go buy a Honda, a Toyota or anything that's foreign, now that you got an excuse.   Hell, with the money you make you wouldn't need that GM discount your dad could get for you.  Forget about buying American.  :4th4:

Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2011, 01:40:27 PM
  Yep, go buy a Honda, a Toyota or anything that's foreign, now that you got an excuse.   Hell, with the money you make you wouldn't need that GM discount your dad could get for you.  Forget about buying American.  :4th4:

I will buy a Ford over GM any day now.........and heck, I would buy a Honda over GM right about now, especially if they pursue this $1 per Gal tax.......Honda at least employees several thousand Americans....What is American about FORCING Americans to buy THEIR  product by raising the price of Gas so much they HAVE to buy a "hybrid" GM to get to work on?  THAT is what this bitch (Obama and the GM big shots) want's to do!!!

As long as GM pays my husband's pension we will buy GM cars. After that?

  Henry give it a break.  Who in hell care what one CEO has to say.  He got as much chance to pull that off as I would if I brought it up.

  I glad General Motors is back and with Chrysler they are putting over I Million workers back to work.  I am truly glad something finally worked.  Now we need to redo the free trade treaties.  They are screwing us to death.  :flag: :salute:

  Nobody will be put back to work as long as the businesses can out source work to slave wage countries.   :yes: :trustme:

Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2011, 07:11:23 PM
  Henry give it a break.  Who in hell care what one CEO has to say.  He got as much chance to pull that off as I would if I brought it up.

  I glad General Motors is back and with Chrysler they are putting over I Million workers back to work.  I am truly glad something finally worked.  Now we need to redo the free trade treaties.  They are screwing us to death.  :flag: :salute:

  Nobody will be put back to work as long as the businesses can out source work to slave wage countries.   :yes: :trustme:

For one, I do. The automotive manufacturing sector has been a long time obstacle toward government taxing the hell out of gasoline and petroleum products; and as both you and I know, these days the "almighty corporation" is increasingly becoming the "we the people" definition. You remove that obstacle, as this GM Honcho has already begun via his statement, and you let loose the dogs of hell surrounding taxation.  This guy's statement is just the foothold government needs to begin leveraging toward that. . .

My personal push back surrounding this GM executives position is, that if the average American Family is indeed needing such a financial incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles, then just why is it that GM itself refused to stop manufacturing inefficient vehicles???? And just why is it that, now that these same American Families have facilitated their survival on our dime, that this company apparently now wants to bite the very hands that feed it????

Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2011, 08:31:35 PM
For one, I do. The automotive manufacturing sector has been a long time obstacle toward government taxing the hell out of gasoline and petroleum products; and as both you and I know, these days the "almighty corporation" is increasingly becoming the "we the people" definition. You remove that obstacle, as this GM Honcho has already begun via his statement, and you let loose the dogs of hell surrounding taxation.  This guy's statement is just the foothold government needs to begin leveraging toward that. . .

My personal push back surrounding this GM executives position is, that if the average American Family is indeed needing such a financial incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles, then just why is it that GM itself refused to stop manufacturing inefficient vehicles???? And just why is it that, now that these same American Families have facilitated their survival on our dime, that this company apparently now wants to bite the very hands that feed it????

  Yep, bite the hand that feeds them and sell us their electric cars at inflated prices.  As I see it I'm a long, long way from putting my eggs into an electric basket.  :tiphat:  :yes: :wink:

Let's break things down here and think about it.  IF, our credit rating is downgraded what does that really mean?  From what I understand is it will mean raising interest rates on those who wish to purchase anything on credit.  We already have a housing issue; I think this will be the icing on the cake as far as any economic recovery.

The fact we currently borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spend as a nation tells me one thing is necessary.  We MUST cut spending.  Why do the liberals think that all we need to do is raise our debt limit and then raise taxes and this will solve everything?   Why are they so uninterested in cutting our spending?

Is it to keep their power? 

To keep entitlements in check so they can continue to buy voters?

As it is right now, every man, woman and child owe nearly $50,000 to pay off the $14 trillion we owe.  This is not including the cost of our coming "healthcare" the democrats has put into place.

The only way that we can possibly do to prevent this downgrade and possibly dodge a bullet is to come to an agreement to raise the debt ceiling, but ONLY with an accompanying cut in spending that exceeds the size of the debt increase.

The scary part is, the dems and Obama seem to outright refuse to stop with their "big spending", and want to unwisely raise taxes on the very people who are our only true way of stimulating our economy, on the entrepreneurs.  In spite of this very business unfriendly administration where even most economists along with Obama himself that raising taxes on Americans in the middle of a recession is an exceptionally bad idea, but that is exactly what Obama and ilk are wanting so badly to do.

  Democrats want to continue big spending.  Not true.  But the Republicans absolutely refuses to raise tax of multimillionaires and billionaires, upper 2% of the population which makes 80% of the money.  :doh:

Quote from: The Troll on July 25, 2011, 06:23:51 PM
  Democrats want to continue big spending.  Not true.  But the Republicans absolutely refuses to raise tax of multimillionaires and billionaires, upper 2% of the population which makes 80% of the money.  :doh:

It is not just the multimillionaires and billionaires, they want to tax those over $250,000...most economist AND Obama himself stated, raising taxes during a down economy is a BAD thing....so, WHY is it you think they should raise them....we are currently experiencing an extremely DOWN economy.

and just for the record the top 1% pays 40% of the federal revenue collected by income taxes....the top 25% pay 86% of the income taxes....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 25, 2011, 08:29:01 PM
It is not just the multimillionaires and billionaires, they want to tax those over $250,000...most economist AND Obama himself stated, raising taxes during a down economy is a BAD thing....so, WHY is it you think they should raise them....we are currently experiencing an extremely DOWN economy.

and just for the record the top 1% pays 40% of the federal revenue collected by income taxes....the top 25% pay 86% of the income taxes....

  Like you should give a damn, what in hell have they done for you lately.  But why shouldn't they pay more taxes. the top 2% make 80% of all of the money and the middle class has taken a pay cut. 

  When did you get your last raise.  I bet with the little improvement in the economy here in Indianapolis I bet your boss got a raise.  Just keep :kissit: kissing their ass, my old Tea Party nut, you're not going to get a damn thing out of them.
except a good fucking.   :yes: :yes: :yes:

  But let me say this, if your Republicans let this country go into default.  Just throw your Republican legs out your Tea Party shoulders and kiss you Republican/Tea Party ass goodbye.  The Muslims would get a bigger vote than your dumb asses 2012.   :yes: :yes: :yes: :rolleyes: :razz:

Quote from: The Troll on July 25, 2011, 09:25:50 PM
  Like you should give a damn, what in hell have they done for you lately.  But why shouldn't they pay more taxes. the top 2% make 80% of all of the money and the middle class has taken a pay cut. 

  When did you get your last raise.  I bet with the little improvement in the economy here in Indianapolis I bet your boss got a raise.  Just keep :kissit: kissing their ass, my old Tea Party nut, you're not going to get a damn thing out of them.
except a good fucking.   :yes: :yes: :yes:

  But let me say this, if your Republicans let this country go into default.  Just throw your Republican legs out your Tea Party shoulders and kiss you Republican/Tea Party ass goodbye.  The Muslims would get a bigger vote than your dumb asses 2012.   :yes: :yes: :yes: :rolleyes: :razz:

It sounds like it will only go default if the POTUS choose it too....Harry Reid and Boener are close to a deal....NO TAXES.

And btw, the POTUS tried his scare tactic once again claiming SS and medicare people will not get paid....that is a LIE!!!!  There is eonough to pay SS, Medicade, Medicare, Military and Vets plus dozens of other services in their entirety...Most buearacrat services will have to cut back.....this country will NOT go default......

Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 25, 2011, 09:58:27 PM
It sounds like it will only go default if the POTUS choose it too....Harry Reid and Boener are close to a deal....NO TAXES.

And btw, the POTUS tried his scare tactic once again claiming SS and medicare people will not get paid....that is a LIE!!!!  There is eonough to pay SS, Medicade, Medicare, Military and Vets plus dozens of other services in their entirety...Most buearacrat services will have to cut back.....this country will NOT go default......

  The ball is in your court, shoot or get off the pot.  I am not going to argue with you anymore.  It's yours to lose.  :jester:

Quote from: The Troll on July 26, 2011, 12:01:53 AM
  The ball is in your court, shoot or get off the pot.  I am not going to argue with you anymore.  It's yours to lose.  :jester:

Nope, the ball is going to be squarely in the POTUS court....it will soon be HIS to shoot or get off the pot..........

The problem in our Nation is the fact we have a very, very dishonest media....and dishonest LIBERAL media, I might add...that they have abandoned their duties to keep "WE THE PEOPLE" truthfully informed....

Dream on, Henry. There is something really  :spooked: :eek: going on with your hero. 

Quote from: libby on March 06, 2017, 02:43:38 PM
Dream on, Henry. There is something really  :spooked: :eek: going on with your hero. 

Yes there is, it is called the ESTABLISHMENT did not get their way.......so, lets destroy this guy, at ALL COSTS.......despite what it may do to our Country.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 02:48:52 PM
Yes there is, it is called the ESTABLISHMENT did not get their way.......so, lets destroy this guy, at ALL COSTS.......despite what it may do to our Country.

You mean just like the previous 8 years?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 10:54:04 AM
The problem in our Nation is the fact we have a very, very dishonest media....and dishonest LIBERAL media, I might add...that they have abandoned their duties to keep "WE THE PEOPLE" truthfully informed....

What makes you think that?  Because Trump says so?  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 02:48:52 PM
Yes there is, it is called the ESTABLISHMENT did not get their way.......so, lets destroy this guy, at ALL COSTS.......despite what it may do to our Country.

The only one endangering the country is Trump by lying every time he opens his mouth, and attempting to employ strong-arm, dictatorial like, actions based on his lies. 

Quote from: Locutus on March 06, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
What makes you think that?  Because Trump says so?  :rolleyes:

Seriously??? Don't tell me YOU don't read or watch the news?

How about:

1.Donald Trump calls for 'total' ban on Muslims entering United States (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2015/12/07/e56266f6-9d2b-11e5-8728-1af6af208198_story.html?utm_term=.9d9166e10934)

YOU and I both know that is a LIE!!

2. CNN's Brook Baldwin actually reported: "Donald Trump called all Mexicans rapists and killers"

ANOTHER LIE!

3. CNN commentator Ben Ferguson had a story about how right-wing students engage in similar destructive behavior on college campuses.....but couldn't give examples to support his claim.....MORE DECEPTION!

4.  That Trump removed the Bust of Martin Luther King.............LIE!


These are just a few that quickly came to mind.....it seems like EVERY NIGHT, CNN or MSNBC or NY TIMES presents headlines that are NOT FACTUAL.
All you gotta do is watch or listen, NIGHTLY, and decide for yourself..........if you can be "intellectually honest" as you once asked me to be.

Quote from: Locutus on March 06, 2017, 03:33:51 PM
The only one endangering the country is Trump by lying every time he opens his mouth, and attempting to employ strong-arm, dictatorial like, actions based on his lies. 

Name one...just for shits and giggles.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 10:54:04 AM
The problem in our Nation is the fact we have a very, very dishonest media....and dishonest LIBERAL media, I might add...that they have abandoned their duties to keep "WE THE PEOPLE" truthfully informed....

<sarcasm>

Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy between big conservative corporations and their employees to lie just to get the poor lil' Drumpfster.

</sarcarsm>

How much a stupid crackpot can you be, Hank?

The only media conspiracy is the lying, fake news, RW media propaganda like Faux News, BiteBat, PhonyInfoWars ad infinitum. 

You know, that crap you listen to, believe, and regurgitate.

It's killed what little brain cells you every had.   :razz:

:yes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 02:48:52 PM
Yes there is, it is called the ESTABLISHMENT did not get their way.......so, lets destroy this guy, at ALL COSTS.......despite what it may do to our Country.

Drumpf is a friggin' crackpot and he appeals to crackpots - like you!

You idiots swallow Drumpf and his acolyte's insane BS like it's mother's milk.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 04:05:16 PM
Name one...just for shits and giggles.

Obama wiretapped him. 

Go!

No proof whatsoever in that accusation.

He would have won the popular vote had it not been for millions of people voting illegally. 

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 03:59:03 PM
Seriously??? Don't tell me YOU don't read or watch the news?

How about:

1.Donald Trump calls for 'total' ban on Muslims entering United States

YOU and I both know that is a LIE!!

2. CNN's Brook Baldwin actually reported: "Donald Trump called all Mexicans rapists and killers"

ANOTHER LIE!

3. CNN commentator Ben Ferguson had a story about how right-wing students engage in similar destructive behavior on college campuses.....but couldn't give examples to support his claim.....MORE DECEPTION!

4.  That Trump removed the Bust of Martin Luther King.............LIE!


These are just a few that quickly came to mind.....it seems like EVERY NIGHT, CNN or MSNBC or NY TIMES presents headlines that are NOT FACTUAL.
All you gotta do is watch or listen, NIGHTLY, and decide for yourself..........if you can be "intellectually honest" as you once asked me to be.

GAWD!  When it comes to politics, you're as stupid and as gullible a nitwit as the day is long!

1)  https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

- December 07, 2015 -
​Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration

(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on

2)  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

–Real estate mogul Donald Trump, presidential announcement speech, June 16, 2015

3)  http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Berkeley-Braces-for-Protests-Ahead-of-March-4-Trump-Rally-415400333.html

The "March 4 Trump" rally in Berkeley on Saturday was advertised as a peaceful gathering, but violence broke out before the start of the actual event, and ended in 10 arrests...

...Before long, Trump supporters were fighting counter-protesters and getting in their faces to show support for the president.

"The American dream is all but dead," Trump supporter Mike Bee said. "We are here to protect it."

4)  http://www.snopes.com/mlk-bust-oval-office/

For the record, the MLK bust dust-up never attained the status of a "big story" in the media. Zeke Miller corrected his error — via Twitter — within an hour of making it — via Twitter. There was never any published story to retract.

I almost forgot to mention that you simply glommed that from some site - it and parts of it have been going around FB and other places for nigh on a year or more - without accreditation and presenting it as your own.

More of your intellectual dishonesty.   :rolleyes:

Fuck off Y

:eek:

 

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 04:05:16 PM
Name one...just for shits and giggles.

What about when he said he had the biggest electoral votes victory since Ronald Reagan?  Flat out lie!  He also tweeted this, "The failing @nytimes was forced to apologize to its subscribers for the poor reporting it did on my election win. Now they are worse!", but the NY Times never apologized.   Another tweet by Trump, "If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!" How in the world would the "bad" rush into the country when vetting takes 18 to 24 months?  The man's a liar, Henry, and it's been proven often. 

I  don't understand how you, or any of his hardcore supporters continue to believe him. It's easy to fact check what he says. 

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 06:35:28 PM
Fuck off Y

Why Henry?  It seems to me he speaks the truth. 

Quote from: AbbyTC on March 06, 2017, 07:38:16 PM
Why Henry?  It seems to me he speaks the truth. 

How Abby am I being dishonest?

Why is it that liberals feel like they can call people names and be rude to those with different views?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 07:42:52 PM
How Abby am I being dishonest?

Why is it that liberals feel like they can call people names and be rude to those with different views?

I never said you are being dishonest, but you seem to avoid the fact Trump lies, and lies repeatedly.  You blame the liberal media but they are reporting what Trump himself (or Spicer, Conway, or Bannon) has said and refute it with facts.  There are no alternate facts no matter what Kellyanne Conway says. 

I can counter your next question with, why is it that conservatives feel like they can call people names and be rude to those with different views?  It happens on both sides of the fence, Henry. And we don't all do that, either. 

Quote from: Y on March 06, 2017, 05:31:04 PM
How much a stupid crackpot can you be, Hank?

I'll assume this is a rhetorical question.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 06:35:28 PM
Fuck off Y

Aw, do you need to go to your safe space, snowflake?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 06, 2017, 07:42:52 PM
How Abby am I being dishonest?

Why is it that liberals feel like they can call people names and be rude to those with different views?

Plagiarism in its essence is dishonesty.  It's not the first time you've done it, and I'm certain it won't be the last.

Oh, and yes, I also heard about you lying about Ex just because your meat curtains got chapped. 

You plagiarize, tell lies, regurgitate lies on the forum and want to play the 'honesty' card.  It's not even a laughing matter anymore around here as it used to be.

So don't try and pass off any more of that 'x-tian' or 'honesty'  BS - you've blown that completely all to Hell.

Also, if you're going to lose your temper and tell people to 'fuck off', you really should consider the political stupidity and hypocrisy you continually spew and understand why it is always being pointed out.  You can't blame others for your own words and actions.

Y,
I'm not blaming anyone....I'm telling you, to fuck off.  Period.

I didn't plagiarize ... I wasn't trying to pretend it was MY IDEA.......I passed on info. I even supplied a link to one of them....and besides that, who give a damn? 

Quit being an ass.  You don't act that way when we talk on the phone or face to face, but on here you seem to think you gotta act like a badass or something.

My problem is, I actually like "some" of you guys or I wouldn't even be here.

Over the years, I have developed a 'friendship' with many, even YOU.  I have watched you play and called you up.  I would LIKE to think, that a friend wouldn't talk to another friend the way YOU do.

For the most part, I have NOT interacted with you on here for a reason.........there is NO changing YOU and there is NO CHANGING me.

If we can't have a fun dialogue, then fuck off.  Seriously.  BTW, quit throwing my CHRISTian BS at me too.  I am indeed a follower of Christ, and proudly so.....but not in sterotypical FASHION YOU think all of us are.

This is who I am.....the same guy that calls you to check in on you.....the same guy who appreciates the talent you have musically.......the same guy that at one time respected you political and religious beliefs............but if this is the way you are going to roll.....FUCK OFF... :yes: ;)


If the admin wants to ban my ass........do IT!!! It would probably be doing me a favor........because nothing good seems to come out of here any more.........I can facebook those I like.
:)

Aw, Henry. you know, or should know even more so  than I (a relative newcomer) that we come here and stay because we enjoy arguing and trying to get the better of each other. 

Quote from: libby on March 08, 2017, 06:04:53 PM
Aw, Henry. you know, or should know even more so  than I (a relative newcomer) that we come here and stay because we enjoy arguing and trying to get the better of each other. 

I guess I am at a stage in my life where I don't have time for assholes...you are probably right I shouldn't let it get to me but ...I'm tired of bickering which is why I need to stay out of the political part of the zone.. but

. . .but. . . You are a microcosm of this nation in that you have become addicted to it. . .  :razz:

We'd all be far better served if we sought the truth rather than one-upmanship. . .  :yes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 08, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
I guess I am at a stage in my life where I don't have time for assholes...you are probably right I shouldn't let it get to me but ...I'm tired of bickering which is why I need to stay out of the political part of the zone.. but

bump

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 08, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
I guess I am at a stage in my life where I don't have time for assholes...you are probably right I shouldn't let it get to me but ...I'm tired of bickering which is why I need to stay out of the political part of the zone.. but

Then how do you put up with yourself?   :razz:

You can't blame anyone but yourself for the replies you get - you solicit them, you always have.   :wink:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 08, 2017, 04:45:00 PM
Y,
I'm not blaming anyone....I'm telling you, to fuck off.  Period.

Pffft!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 08, 2017, 04:45:00 PM
I didn't plagiarize ...

Not true.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 08, 2017, 04:45:00 PM
Quit being an ass.  You don't act that way when we talk on the phone or face to face, but on here you seem to think you gotta act like a badass or something.

Think about it.  You don't talk like you talk on here.  In fact we don't usually talk politics except on forums, and as I've told you for years, you get the responses you solicit and then you whine about it - you always have all the way back to the HM days.

Your primary problem with politics is you're an ideologue and speak and act from that position regardless of anything proving you wrong - and you don't like interacting with me, and some others, on forums because you're invariably proved wrong.  That's why you are always whining about me or Ex or someone and pretending you're an injured party.

It's all that whining about along with acting as an 'injured' party that wears folks out. 

You want to do politics, just take your lumps like a doggone adult - and leave the shite on the forum and don't carry it out to the world and affect your relationships.

Hell, if I did that, I'd never be friends with you, old Numnut Mike, or lots of other folks I've met on forums.

Quote from: Y on March 14, 2017, 07:10:02 PM
Pffft!

Not true.

Think about it.  You don't talk like you talk on here.  In fact we don't usually talk politics except on forums, and as I've told you for years, you get the responses you solicit and then you whine about it - you always have all the way back to the HM days.

Your primary problem with politics is you're an ideologue and speak and act from that position regardless of anything proving you wrong - and you don't like interacting with me, and some others, on forums because you're invariably proved wrong.  That's why you are always whining about me or Ex or someone and pretending you're an injured party.

It's all that whining about along with acting as an 'injured' party that wears folks out. 

You want to do politics, just take your lumps like a doggone adult - and leave the shite on the forum and don't carry it out to the world and affect your relationships.

Hell, if I did that, I'd never be friends with you, old Numnut Mike, or lots of other folks I've met on forums.

I'm calling Bullshit....I don't whine, but I do get tired of continuously getting called "idiot", "moron", accused of wanting oral sex with the potus, having 'sub' IQ, and dozens of other inappropriate names, that has NOTHING to do with discussing Politics.

I have found that people who rely on that kind of responses, usually are insecure with their thoughts, so they try to demean their opponent to side track them or rattle them.  I know damn well this is the "unmoderated open" forum....but, I would have gotten to know several of you on here, and would LIKE to think we could discuss without the immaturity.  I am obviously wrong.

I have had several private discussions with you and I absolutely talk to you the way I talk on here.  I am who I am.  I am not phony. What you see is what you get. 

Quit thinking you have "Proven" me wrong on issues you THINK you have......You have a strong opinion, but YOU are probably the most ideologue person I know.

You attack Christian beliefs on a mean spirited way.  You pretend to have this deeply rooted "touch" with the poor and minority.....and everyone else are morons.

It seems like most of the conservatives I know, can carry on in-depth discussions about politics, religion or sports with out 'name-calling' or getting mean about it...but I know SEVERAL liberals it seem THAT is the only way they can discuss.

Anyway, I probably DO get my butt hurt more than I should allow, but it is only because I would LIKE to think that we are 'friends' on here and in the real world.  I take friendship serious. 

With that being said.........from now on, I choose when to respond and who I respond with and HOW I respond, to what ever level I want.... and I move on.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AM
I'm calling Bullshit....I don't whine,

Absolutely not true.  :wink:  (see next quote)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMbut I do get tired of continuously getting called "idiot", "moron", accused of wanting oral sex with the potus, having 'sub' IQ, and dozens of other inappropriate names, that has NOTHING to do with discussing Politics.

^^^

Who do you think you're kidding?  You basically call me a liar, and then turn right around in the next moment and prove me totally correct.  As usual, you didn't think that through.  It's that lack of critical thinking and your being a staunch ideologue that earns you those descriptions.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMI have found that people who rely on that kind of responses, usually are insecure with their thoughts, so they try to demean their opponent to side track them or rattle them.  I know damn well this is the "unmoderated open" forum....but, I would have gotten to know several of you on here, and would LIKE to think we could discuss without the immaturity.  I am obviously wrong.

LOL!  That's simply your cognitive dissonance at work.  I doubt you'll even understand that.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMI have had several private discussions with you and I absolutely talk to you the way I talk on here.  I am who I am.  I am not phony. What you see is what you get.

No, you don't.  You can't - and don't - even live up to your own ideologies.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMQuit thinking you have "Proven" me wrong on issues you THINK you have......You have a strong opinion, but YOU are probably the most ideologue person I know.

More cognitive dissonance.  You've been proved wrong left and right by practically everyone.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMYou attack Christian beliefs on a mean spirited way.  You pretend to have this deeply rooted "touch" with the poor and minority.....and everyone else are morons.

When people like you support enshrining your peculiar religious beliefs and morality into law, I - and others - aren't going to take it nicely. 

I understand the poor and minorities because I have lived it, you haven't.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMIt seems like most of the conservatives I know, can carry on in-depth discussions about politics, religion or sports with out 'name-calling' or getting mean about it...but I know SEVERAL liberals it seem THAT is the only way they can discuss.

Circle jerks are not in-depth discussions.  I doubt you'll get that either.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 15, 2017, 10:45:29 AMAnyway, I probably DO get my butt hurt more than I should allow, but it is only because I would LIKE to think that we are 'friends' on here and in the real world.  I take friendship serious. 

Arguing issues on a forum has nothing to do with friendship one way or the other, and all you are doing is trying to not take responsibility for your ideologies and to insulate yourself from your ideological failures and their forum repercussions.

Just stop whining!  Sheesh!   :wink:

I feel obligated to stand firm on my beliefs on this forum, especially when a particular party chooses to infuse hatred and spitefulness without even remotely trying to emote logic or common sense.  When they choose to utilize their political platform to send a message to Americans that their hatred of our POTUS is more important than what is best for America...I have a problem.


I understand having different views and opinions....I understand they believe their agenda is better for America than the other party.


What I don't understand is, when they choose to pout and whine, because they merely are not getting their way........it really bothers me.


When the POTUS at the SOTU last night spoke how African American Unemployment Rate is at an "all time" low, actually the lowest in HISTORY! ... the Black Caucus sat on their hands and refused to be happy for that fact.


When the POTUS shared touching stories of the American Spirit with special guests...........they sat their seething.


When he pointed out how manufacturing jobs were beginning to return.....they sat their with their bottom lip hiding their upper lip.


When he shared how that more hardworking Americans now have MORE of their paycheck to spend on things that mater most to them...they sat their, hands under their legs.


This base is so vicious, so ideological, so rigid, so hateful, so "out of their skull"...the couldn't applaud.......even if they wanted too.  They believe that Hate and Hate alone will win them the White House back!!  They are built on negativity! 


They believe that their hatred and vitriol of Trump will rally Americans to keep them in power!  How fucked up is that?


In my opinion......they put on display, to ALL of America, (Hell to all of the world) last night exactly what they are all about...and it ISN'T whats best for America.


A CBS News Poll had this to say after the speech:


Eight in 10 Americans who watched the speech felt that the president was trying to unite the country, rather than divide it..
Two-thirds said the speech made them feel proud...
Most of the viewers think the policies they heard tonight would help them personally...
A CBS national poll released earlier this month, 24 percent of Americans identified themselves as Republicans.  Among those who watched tonight's address, that percentage was 42 percent...


So, while I know we all have our opinion as to what is best for America....it seems to me, when the obvious slaps you in the face with facts, one should at least acknowledge it.  I know many preach on here about they are "intellectually honest".   I don't see it.


Hating Trump is one thing, but hating what is best for America is another...


November of 2018 is going to be another significant moment in our history....we can choose to continue to what is best for this Country or we can go back to where we were.


This is my rant...


I'm not asking for comments, though that is obviously up to you......I'm venting my thoughts after what I believe was perhaps the greatest SOTU speech in decades...I am once again, feeling American Pride as I haven't felt in years.  I am excited about our economy.  I am excited about my children's future.

Interesting....


by Charles Krauthammer

I do not understand how living in a country with its democracy established over 200 years ago, and now, for the first time in history, suddenly we have one of our former presidents set up a group called "Organizing for Action" (OFA).

OFA is 30,000+ strong and working to disrupt everything that our current president's administration is trying to do. This organization goes against our Democracy, and it is an operation that will destroy our way of governing. It goes against our Constitution, our laws, and the processes established over 200 years ago. If it is allowed to proceed then we will be living in chaos very much like third world countries are run. What good is it to have an established government if it is not going to be respected and allowed to follow our laws?

If you had an army some 30,000 strong and a court system stacked over the decades with judges who would allow you to break the laws, how much damage could you do to a country? We are about to find out in America!

Our ex-president said he was going to stay involved through community organizing and speak out on the issues and that appears to be one post-administration promise he intends to keep. He has moved many of his administration's top dogs over to Organizing for Action.

OFA is behind the strategic and tactical implementation of the resistance to the Trump Administration that we are seeing across America, and politically active courts are providing the leverage for this revolution.

OFA is dedicated to organizing communities for "progressive" change. Its issues are gun control, socialist healthcare, abortion, sexual equality, climate change, and of course, immigration reform.

OFA members were propped up by the ex-president's message from the shadows: "Organizing is the building block of everything great we have accomplished Organizers around the country are fighting for change in their communities and OFA is one of the groups on the front lines. Commit to this work in 2017 and beyond."

OFA's website says it obtained its "digital" assets from the ex-president's re-election effort and that he inspired the movement. In short, it is the shadow government organization aimed at resisting and tearing down the Constitutional Republic we know as AMERICA.

Paul Sperry, writing for the New York Post, says, "The OFA will fight President Donald Trump at every turn of his presidency and the ex-president will command them from a bunker less than two miles from the White House."

Sperry writes that, "The ex-president is setting up a shadow government to sabotage the Trump administration through a network of non-profits led by OFA, which is growing its war chest (more than $40 million) and has some 250 offices nationwide. The OFA IRS filings, according to Sperry, indicate that the OFA has 32,525 (and growing) volunteers nationwide. The ex-president and his wife will oversee the operation from their home/ office in Washington DC.

Think about how this works.. For example: Trump issues an immigration executive order; the OFA signals for protests and statements from pro-immigrant groups; the ACLU lawyers file lawsuits in jurisdictions where activist judges obstruct the laws; volunteers are called to protest at airports and Congressional town hall meetings; the leftist media springs to action in support of these activities; the twitter sphere lights up with social media; and violence follows. All of this happens from the ex-president's signal that he is heartened by the protests.

If Barack Obama did not do enough to destroy this country in the 8 years he was in office, it appears his future plans are to destroy the foundation on which this country has operated on for the last 241 years.

If this does not scare you, then we are in worse trouble than you know.

So, do your part. You have read it, so at least pass this on so others will know what we are up against. We are losing our country and we are so compliant. We are becoming a "PERFECT TARGET" for our enemy!

Charles Krauthammer

Henry, that is just not true.

Dr. Krauthammer, formerly a frequent participant of Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace, did not write that. (Yes, I'm a democrat and yes, I watch Fox News Sunday and the minute I read that thought it did not at all sound like Dr. Krauthammer.) So I fact checked:

"Fact Check Questionable Quotes
         
Did Charles Krauthammer Write An Essay Called 'The Enemy Among Us?'

"The Washington Post columnist did not write an article alleging that former President Barack Obama was creating a "shadow government" through his nonprofit Organizing for Action.

"Columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote an opinion piece entitled "The Enemy Among Us" alleging that former President Barack Obama was creating a "shadow government" through his nonprofit Organizing for Action.
     
RATING

Misattributed

ORIGIN

"An opinion piece arguing that former President Barack Obama's nonprofit Organizing for Action (OFA) is a "shadow government" organization aimed at tearing down the Constitution has been circulating under various titles since it was originally published in February 2017. But it wasn't until months later, when Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer's name was erroneously attached to the text, that this opinion piece started gaining popularity.

"A portion of this opinion piece as it circulated under the title "The Enemy Among Us" is reproduced below:

I do not understand how living in a country with its democracy established over 200 years ago, and now, for the first time in history, suddenly we have one of our former presidents set up a group called "Organizing for Action" (OFA).

OFA is 30,000+ strong and working to disrupt everything that our current president's administration is trying to do. This organization goes against our Democracy, and it is an operation that will destroy our way of governing. It goes against our Constitution, our laws, and the processes established over 200 years ago. If it is allowed to proceed then we will be living in chaos very much like third world countries are run. What good is it to have an established government if it is not going to be respected and allowed to follow our laws?

If you had an army some 30,000 strong and a court system stacked over the decades with judges who would allow you to break the laws, how much damage could you do to a country? We are about to find out in America!"

The claim that Krauthammer penned this op-ed seems to have originated on the the web site Nesara News, which introduced the text with a brief paragraph lauding the credibility of the conservative columnist on 11 October 2017. The web site also claimed that the article had appeared in the New York Post:

"Krauthammer is about the best and brightest journalist and political analyst we have, in my opinion. His words of warning in the below message should be taken seriously and spread throughout the country so as many of our citizens as possible are made aware of what is happening right under our noses! An article from the New York Post:

"This article was never published in the New York Post, nor was it written by Charles Krauthammer. In fact, the Post's author page for Krauthammer only lists two articles, both of which were published in 2009, and neither of which dealt with Organizing for Action.

"The majority of this text originated in a 13 February 2017 blog post on "The Daily Jot," nearly 8 months before Krauthammer's name was erroneously attached to it. The post was entitled "The Perilous Times We Live In" and attributed to Christian journalist Bill Wilson.

With the exception of the opening and closing paragraphs, Wilson's article and the "Krauthammer" article are practically identical. Here's a comparison of the two articles with the shared text highlighted:

Wilson confirmed to us via email that he is the original author of this op-ed. Mike Watson, a research assistant for Krauthammer, also told us via email that this op-ed did not originate with the conservative columnist.

Dr. Krauthammer did not write it and has nothing to do with it.

Krauthammer's name was simply tacked onto the end of this article in an attempt to lend it an air of credibility. We previously addressed the claim that President Obama was forming a shadow government to undermine the Trump presidency and found that it was based on little to no evidence.

Fact Checker: Dan Evon

Libby,
I gotta give you my respect!!  :smitten:  and with that, I gotta kick myself in the ass!!  :rant:  I'm sick and tired of NOT being able to trust a damn thing you read without having to spend time to verify it authenticity.

I should have went with my first instinct to think something was not right, because I knew Krauthammer had been very, very sick and has a long recovery.

I doesn't completely validate the story, because it is an interesting article....but, without spending MORE time to see who the author is....

Krauthammer isn't a person that I always agree with, but I have much respect for him and like to hear his thought and opinions.  Which is why I fell into the trap.

Another lesson learned, that fake news is rampart and it is up to US, to spend time to check the validity.

If anything, I am going to see if there is any "truth" to this article...because it is, indeed, alarming if there is any truth to it what-so-ever.

With that said, Thanks Libby... :yes:

 :smitten: Right back atcha, Hank! I know how much time it takes to check out everything, for it has always been part of my job, especially after I went to work for the feds. 

Throughout the entire history of the United States of America, everyone is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty, and not just when in a courtroom! We must not allow anyone, for any reason, to eliminate that protection for all Americans. That would turn us into a tyrannical nation where we can be accused of anything and we must then prove we did not do it, which is an impossibility.

   Your little written speech just proved to me, one thing.

  You are an out and out know it all Narcissist.  :trustme:

Do you even know what that word means?


How is it even possible for anyone with a lick of intelligence not somewhat agree with my statement?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 06, 2018, 08:42:39 AM
Do you even know what that word means?


How is it even possible for anyone with a lick of intelligence not somewhat agree with my statement?

  Take your head out of your ass for a minute and check YouTube and check out all of the posts on what a Narcissist is.  You will find you and your buddy Republicans there.  :haha:  Trump is one of the largest Narcissist there is and so is Brett Kavanaugh  :coat:.  :pigdance: