Surprisingly, Chief Justice John Roberts was the swing vote in support. :spooked: :biggrin:
Yay!
I told you guys it would pass.... :yes:
(http://keithgrossman.com/ocare.jpg)
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 11:04:08 AM
(http://keithgrossman.com/ocare.jpg)
That sums it up quite nicely. That really is the bottom line. :yes:
It would have been a national disaster to have decided otherwise. Yet 4 were all for driving us down that path? :spooked:
And now we have a repugnican talking head on TV spewing sour grapes over the SCOTUS decision, and saying "I'm just thankful we don't have people killing each other on the streets over this. I'm surprised."
Lets see what happens. To say this IS a good thing is to speak without any REAL knowledge of the impact of a bill, that was too big, and the legislatures did NOT know what all was in it, BEFORE they voted for it. They was hell bent to pass SOMETHING, they passed it. That is where I find fault, with the opposing party.
I hope and pray that it does make things better. But one thing right off the cuff is the parents covering their kids until they are 26, I think is a provision that has already caused my own policy to go up.
and another concern is, IF, our government can force everyone to buy a commodity, then what is next?
I STILL have faith in our system, despite the political turmoil, that IF this IS bad, it will be repealed. IF, it is a good thing, then it will stay.
This ruling does not say it is a GOOD bill, just that it clears legalities of our constitution.
This is going to get VERY interesting over the next few months...that is for sure.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 28, 2012, 11:27:48 AM
And now we have a repugnican talking head on TV spewing sour grapes over the SCOTUS decision, and saying "I'm just thankful we don't have people killing each other on the streets over this. I'm surprised."
Who said that?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 11:31:32 AM
Lets see what happens. To say this IS a good thing is to speak without any REAL knowledge of the impact of a bill, that was too big, and the legislatures did NOT know what all was in it, BEFORE they voted for it. They was hell bent to pass SOMETHING, they passed it. That is where I find fault, with the opposing party.
I hope and pray that it does make things better. But one thing right off the cuff is the parents covering their kids until they are 26, I think is a provision that has already caused my own policy to go up.
and another concern is, IF, our government can force everyone to buy a commodity, then what is next?
I STILL have faith in our system, despite the political turmoil, that IF this IS bad, it will be repealed. IF, it is a good thing, then it will stay.
This ruling does not say it is a GOOD bill, just that it clears legalities of our constitution.
This is going to get VERY interesting over the next few months...that is for sure.
The only thing bad about this legislation is to be found from the health insurer's perspective; it limits their ability to inflict insurance genocide upon the masses. Then there are the greedy business people who, despite the law, continue to offer NO health insurance to their employees. NONE.
Great, now wienie girl (Bachmann) is on camera blathering about "Obama-Care". . . Just like the birth certificate bullshit, this will NEVER die. Even when the POTUS is re-elected! :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 11:39:48 AM
Who said that?
A Georgia Congressman, Phil something or another. . . :mad:
Phil Gingery?
Quote from: followsthewolf on June 28, 2012, 11:47:12 AM
Phil Gingery?
(http://images.politico.com/global/news/110621_gingery_ipab_ap_328.jpg)
Yeah, that's him.
Bought and paid for goon.
Lets get this straight....Obama said that this bill was NOT a tax, Congress said it was NOT a tax. The bill got passed based upon the people thinking it was NOT a tax.
The SCOTUS just said it IS INDEED a tax.
We have been misled and LIED too.
We now have the largest tax increase on the American people in the history of this nation....during a recession.
Listening to Fox News there at work, eh? :razz:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 12:17:55 PM
Listening to Fox News there at work, eh? :razz:
as God as my witness, I am NOT listening to foxNews....that is ALWAYS the liberals response... :razz:
Limbaugh! ;) :razz: on the radio! :yes:
and he, as always, Makes a great response.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 12:26:48 PM
as God as my witness, I am NOT listening to foxNews....that is ALWAYS the liberals response... :razz:
Limbaugh! ;) :razz: on the radio! :yes:
and he, as always, Makes a great response.
I knew it was something like that. Limbaugh is a proven liar, but oh well, if you to be entertained in such a manner, have at it. ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 12:26:48 PM
as God as my witness, I am NOT listening to foxNews....that is ALWAYS the liberals response... :razz:
Limbaugh! ;) :razz: on the radio! :yes:
and he, as always, Makes a great response.
Looking at it that way, then car insurance is a tax, homeowners insurance is a tax; the list is endless.
More sour grapes. You lost, get over it.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 28, 2012, 12:29:46 PM
Looking at it that way, then car insurance is a tax, homeowners insurance is a tax; the list is endless.
More sour grapes. You lost, get over it.
Funny thing is, I just switched over to Limbaugh just for shits and grins and he was saying almost EXACTLY what HH said in his post. :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 12:28:04 PM
I knew it was something like that. Limbaugh is a proven liar, but oh well, if you to be entertained in such a manner, have at it. ;D
Well Obama is NOW a proven liar too! HE SAID that the mandate is NOT a tax increase. And it IS a f'ing tax increase. He is either a proven liar or does not know what he is talking about....I think it may be both... :razz: :yes:
btw, I rarely listen to limbaugh, but figured it may be pretty entertaining today. :yes: and it is! ;D
Quote from: Palehorse on June 28, 2012, 12:29:46 PM
Looking at it that way, then car insurance is a tax, homeowners insurance is a tax; the list is endless.
More sour grapes. You lost, get over it.
I didn't lose anything, just energized to remove democrats from washington in November thats all.... ;)
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 12:31:22 PM
Funny thing is, I just switched over to Limbaugh just for shits and grins and he was saying almost EXACTLY what HH said in his post. :rotfl:
Henry has no original ideas; he simply parrots the douchebaggery of others.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 12:34:33 PM
I didn't lose anything, just energized to remove democrats from washington in November thats all.... ;)
Not going to happen.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
Henry has no original ideas; he simply parrots the douchebaggery of others.
now THAT is about the funniest thing I have heard on here......that is the pot calling the kettle black!!!
(http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/rotfl.gif)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 12:33:03 PM
Well Obama is NOW a proven liar too! HE SAID that the mandate is NOT a tax increase. And it IS a f'ing tax increase. He is either a proven liar or does not know what he is talking about....I think it may be both... :razz: :yes:
btw, I rarely listen to limbaugh, but figured it may be pretty entertaining today. :yes: and it is! ;D
:cry: :cry: :cry: Henry. The Supreme Court said it was a tax, Henry. You can't have it all your way. :cry: :cry: :cry: :haha:
:zoners: :haha: :haha: :haha: :thumbsup:
What has fat ass Limppaw got in this. The asshole's last contract was for $80 Million. He sure afford a little tax for health. For the cancer he going to get from smoking those $50 Cuban cigars. What a joy. :haha: :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on June 28, 2012, 12:41:32 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: Henry. The Supreme Court said it was a tax, Henry. You can't have it all your way. :cry: :cry: :cry: :haha:
:zoners: :haha: :haha: :haha: :thumbsup:
What has fat ass Limppaw got in this. The asshole's last contract was for $80 Million. He sure afford a little tax for health. For the cancer he going to get from smoking those $50 Cuban cigars. What a joy. :haha: :haha:
this is a typical response by the average liberal voter........ :spooked:
That is what is distubing more than the bill that was passed. :yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
Henry has no original ideas; he simply parrots the douchebaggery of others.
You think he'll want to see Chief Justice Roberts' long form birth certificate now? :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 12:47:06 PM
You think he'll want to see Chief Justice Roberts' long form birth certificate now? :biggrin:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
One of my friends on Facebook just posted, "My friends, elections have consequences."
My reply: "Yep! Good thing George W. Bush appointed Chief Justice John Roberts to the SCOTUS!"
:biggrin:
So far, no response.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 28, 2012, 12:47:49 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
thats all okay!! Henry has big shoulders.....pile on fellas!....get it ALL out of your system...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 12:54:44 PM
One of my friends on Facebook just posted, "My friends, elections have consequences."
My reply: "Yep! Good thing George W. Bush appointed Chief Justice John Roberts to the SCOTUS!"
:biggrin:
So far, no response.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Hey for the record......I have zero problem with roberts at all. I think he is an honest and good judge.
Remember, he is not saying it is a good law, it is just a legal one.
I can live with that.
I thought it was YOU guys who thought Roberts was the Anti-christ...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 12:38:52 PM
now THAT is about the funniest thing I have heard on here......that is the pot calling the kettle black!!!
(http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/rotfl.gif)
Not even close; I rarely pay attention to political commentary from either side of the aisle. As it works out, reality has a liberal bias.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 01:06:35 PM
Not even close; I rarely pay attention to political commentary from either side of the aisle. As it works out, reality has a liberal bias.
in your liberal minded world it may. But not to the common sense, thinking class Americans.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
Hey for the record......I have zero problem with roberts at all. I think he is an honest and good judge.
I'm actually starting to like the guy; he sometimes displays actual integrity. I'm guessing he won't be invited to Christmas dinner at Scalia's house this year, though. :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
Hey for the record......I have zero problem with roberts at all. I think he is an honest and good judge.
Remember, he is not saying it is a good law, it is just a legal one.
I can live with that.
I thought it was YOU guys who thought Roberts was the Anti-christ...
What I find hilarious is that the Golden Mitten came right out and said he will "repeal Obamacare" once he is elected. He's too stupid to realize he won't be able to do that unless he gets mandate support from congress! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Then he still offers NOTHING as an alternative that anyone with the slightest amount of brains would consider a viable option. "Increasing choices" is political speak for increasing your premiums while decreasing benefits. (Oh, yeah. He's an expert on that shit isn't he!) :roll eyes:
Now all of a sudden the conservatives want to "increase medicare / medicaid", when all they've spewed over the last 4 years was cut, cut, cut our social security, medicare and medicaid, and held social safety nets hostage while the people relying on them suffered! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Let it go on record, here on the Zone........the TEA Party will become bigger than ever!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
in your liberal minded world it may. But not to the common sense, thinking class Americans.
If by, "thinking class," you're referring to those who can't quite seem to conjugate the simplest verbs in the English language. I typically call them illiterates.
You lost; get over it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:12:15 PM
Let it go on record, here on the Zone........the TEA Party will become bigger than ever!
Tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 01:13:08 PM
If by, "thinking class," you're referring to those who can't quite seem to conjugate the simplest verbs in the English language. I typically call them illiterates.
You lost; get over it.
What did I lose? You guys keep saying that, but I think this ruling may very well be exactly what needs to happen to energize the conservatives and moderate Americans to go and vote, to stop the foolishness.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 01:14:27 PM
Tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.
:food24: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
in your liberal minded world it may. But not to the common sense, thinking class Americans.
Thinking class Americans? Are you serious? Aren't they the ones primarily represented on late night episodes of Jaywalking? :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 01:14:27 PM
Tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.
You are a regular "don rickles" I bet letterman and leno will be calling you anytime now!! :razz:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 01:19:05 PM
Thinking class Americans? Are you serious? Aren't they the ones primarily represented on late night episodes of Jaywalking? :biggrin:
You mean like Troll? :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
Hey for the record......I have zero problem with roberts at all. I think he is an honest and good judge.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 01:10:09 PM
I'm actually starting to like the guy; he sometimes displays actual integrity. I'm guessing he won't be invited to Christmas dinner at Scalia's house this year, though. :biggrin:
I'm actually surprised how that vote came down. If someone told me in advance that the decision was going to be a 5-4 one, I would have said that Justice Kennedy would have sided with the liberal leaning justices and
not Chief Justice Roberts. I'm very surprised.
Here's a link to the PDF of the opinion for those who are inclined to read it:
National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf
Oh boy. . . Turtle Head Boehner is up spewing now. . . :roll eyes:
Hey guys, why don't you just go ahead and put on your sheets? :mad:
You conservative cry babies straight faced lie to the American people while the whole time the healthcare insurance industry is paying you to fight the now confirmed LAW.
Do you really think we don't see that hand up your back? :rolleyes:
wait, lets remember WHO the liar is....and this has been proven. It was those (Obama and democrat congress) who told the American people there is NO Taxes involved in the HC Bill. They lied, and the courts proved it.
a bold faced lie, by Obama and the democrats. Also, they now have the largest tax increase EVER.
the democrats in washington are liars.....that is undisputable.
I think this election has taken a serious swing to the right..... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:12:15 PM
Let it go on record, here on the Zone........the TEA Party will become bigger than ever!
Again you're in the dark, Henry. :dark: Where is all of the big Tea Party rallies. Where are the little fat women with straw hats with tea bags hanging off of it. In the past elections they have just had the voters are throwing out the Tea Party office holders. :haha: All over the United State the Tea Party has lost face, look like a group of wild eyed fools. :wacko:
I think you're so wrong Henry. You may have to close down your chapter of the Tea Party in Anderson. :yes: The American have come to see your party, the Tea Party for what it is. :yes: A group of religious fanatics who want to put a religious wet blanket over everything here in America. :rain2: Now let us bow :bow: our heads and pray. :pray: :preach: :pope: What a group of clowns. :jester: :haha: :haha:
Just watch and see troll....they are coming. :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 01:42:39 PM
Just watch and see troll....they are coming. :yes:
Oh, I'll be watching :eye: :eye: :sailor: But the Tea Party is just a flash in the pan. A cookie that has crumbled. A fart that ran instead of just smelling. :wink: A frog that that has crocked his last crock. A thing that can't walk, or talk the walk. :dead: :haha:
I'm having a lot of fun onthe internets today just posting, "you lost; get over it," in response to the right wing cry-babies. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 01:58:01 PM
I'm having a lot of fun onthe internets today just posting, "you lost; get over it," in response to the right wing cry-babies. :biggrin:
but, to those of us who know better, it is a clear cut victory! Obama has been called out for what he is ..... a liar.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
but, to those of us who know better, it is a clear cut victory! Obama has been called out for what he is ..... a liar.
You know Henry, you can yell, cry :cry liar all you want. But your Republican Party is the biggest group of liars in the world. That's how George W. got us in to a uncalled for war that lasted 6 long long year, killing 5,000 of our young people. Like about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. All lies, all fabrication and you voted for this party all of your life. Welcome to the party of liars, The Republican/Tea Party. :no: :no: :rolleyes: :razz:
So I think you should look at your party before you start screaming liar when you guys are so good at lying yourselves. :trustme: :flag:
It's pretty ironic that all of these so-called Christians seem to have no problem whatsoever spending massive amounts of money on weapons used to destroy lives but God forbid we spend even a small fraction of that amount making some better.
Quote from: The Troll on June 28, 2012, 02:17:25 PM
You know Henry, you can yell, cry :cry liar all you want. But your Republican Party is the biggest group of liars in the world. That's how George W. got us in to a uncalled for war that lasted 6 long long year, killing 5,000 of our young people. Like about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. All lies, all fabrication and you voted for this party all of your life. Welcome to the party of liars, The Republican/Tea Party. :no: :no: :roll eyes: :razz:
So I think you should look at your party before you start screaming liar when you guys are so good at lying yourselves. :trustme: :flag:
blah, blah, blah.............................Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 02:21:50 PM
blah, blah, blah.............................Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar,Obama is a liar (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
Are you lying now or where you lying in the past. I just don't get you Hawk. You're just a plain liar. :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on June 28, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Are you lying now or where you lying in the past. I just don't get you Hawk. You're just a plain liar. :biggrin:
obama lied....and must be tried!
I just made that up...pretty catchy huh? ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 02:30:07 PM
obama lied....and must be tried!
I just made that up...pretty catchy huh? ;D
I know what to do. Get Issa to impeach the Supreme Court, and get that damn liberal Roberts. :hanged: Other than that :nocomment:
Quote from: The Troll on June 28, 2012, 02:33:33 PM
I know what to do. Get Issa to impeach the Supreme Court, and get that damn liberal Roberts. :hanged: Other than that :nocomment:
the supreme court is fine....roberts is fine. But Holder is going to be gone soon, and now that Obama is a proven liar.....so will he....... :haha:
The only people who will have to pay under the individual mandate are people who can afford to purchase insurance but choose not to. If you'd rather forego buying insurance so that you can drive a Cadillac instead of a Chevy, you get to pay and you deserve to because while I am not opposed to helping those who really need it, paying for the health care costs for people like that does sort of gripe my ass and it should yours as well.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 02:52:26 PM
The only people who will have to pay under the individual mandate are people who can afford to purchase insurance but choose not to. If you'd rather forego buying insurance so that you can drive a Cadillac instead of a Chevy, you get to pay and you deserve to because while I am not opposed to helping those who really need it, paying for the health care costs for people like that does sort of gripe my ass and it should yours as well.
And it does gripe my ass too,
Ex, does this not open the flood gates for congress to force Americans to buy anything they choose, and say if you don't, you will be taxed? If you don't pay the tax, the IRS will enforce this law, and you go to jail.
The precident has been set now.
Such as, in order to save electricity, you MUST buy solar panels. If you don't you will pay a tax. If you don't pay a tax, you CAN go to jail or pay a fine.
Is this NOT about as anti-American as we can get?
This Bill is going bring people out in flocks to vote...and I think justifiably so. It IS a bad law.
Something needs to be done, but this bill is NOT the way. It is going to take away our freedoms. Watch and see.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 03:23:34 PM
Ex, does this not open the flood gates for congress to force Americans to buy anything they choose, and say if you don't, you will be taxed? If you don't pay the tax, the IRS will enforce this law, and you go to jail.
That's one of the most ridiculous suggestions I've ever read.
How is being forced by the state to buy automobile insurance from a private company fundamentally different than being forced to buy health insurance by the federal government?
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 03:50:12 PM
That's one of the most ridiculous suggestions I've ever read.
How is being forced by the state to buy automobile insurance from a private company fundamentally different than being forced to buy health insurance by the federal government?
There is NOW a precident, that our federal government can FORCE us to buy anything they wish, as long as they have the votes....to mandate or pay a tax.
can they not, say all Americans MUST drive a hybrid car or pay a tax? of coarse if you don't pay your taxes, the IRS is on your ass, and could take you to jail.
this is a bad bill....and the ruling of it, has set a precident for things to come.
We did not exhaust all the ideas of allowing the free market to fix this mess. The government stepped in, and I have all the confidence it will be for the worse...for ALL Americans, especially those who had good insurance.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 03:57:55 PM
There is NOW a precident, that our federal government can FORCE us to buy anything they wish, as long as they have the votes....to mandate or pay a tax.
can they not, say all Americans MUST drive a hybrid car or pay a tax? of coarse if you don't pay your taxes, the IRS is on your ass, and could take you to jail.
this is a bad bill....and the ruling of it, has set a precident for things to come.
We did not exhaust all the ideas of allowing the free market to fix this mess. The government stepped in, and I have all the confidence it will be for the worse...for ALL Americans, especially those who had good insurance.
Oh, crap, I see it now and you're right! The next thing you know they're going to make us buy cars with two headlights, a third brake light, turn signals, air bags and safety belts. Then they'll make us buy car seats for our freakin' kids!
This shit changes everything!
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
Oh, crap, I see it now and you're right! The next thing you know they're going to make us buy cars with two headlights, a third brake light, turn signals, air bags and safety belts. Then they'll make us buy car seats for our freakin' kids!
This shit changes everything!
make light of it now, but when YOU have to quit sky diving because our government thinks it is too dangerous or no longer able to have a german shepard because they are too mean. We will see.
they now have more powers than they did a few hours ago.
Holy cow HH! It's really not that bad. Jeezus!!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 04:15:47 PM
make light of it now, but when YOU have to quit sky diving because our government thinks it is too dangerous or no longer able to have a german shepard because they are too mean. We will see.
they now have more powers than they did a few hours ago.
When they tell me I have to wire my house a certain way, I'm really going to go off!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 04:15:47 PM
they now have more powers than they did a few hours ago.
That ruling, had you bothered to read it, was specifically worded not to expand government powers. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're at work, but please read it and explain to me how that's an expansion of government powers as you so claim.
You think Chief Justice John Roberts would vote in favor of such a massive expansion of powers like you're claiming?
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 04:18:45 PM
Holy cow HH! It's really not that bad. Jeezus!!
maybe not, but there IS a real STANDARD set with this ruling.....that COULD lead to more control. They (the federal government) just decided today, we HAVE to buy a commodity or be subject to a tax. When my employer drops my insurance now, due to restrictive policies, I will be forced to buy out of my pocket, at a cost that lord knows what it will be.
It is NOT making things better...but making things worse.
thanks
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 04:25:10 PM
That ruling, had you bothered to read it, was specifically worded not to expand government powers. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're at work, but please read it and explain to me how that's an expansion of government powers as you so claim.
You think Chief Justice John Roberts would vote in favor of such a massive expansion of powers like you're claiming?
he did.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 03:57:55 PM
There is NOW a precident, that our federal government can FORCE us to buy anything they wish, as long as they have the votes....to mandate or pay a tax.
can they not, say all Americans MUST drive a hybrid car or pay a tax? of coarse if you don't pay your taxes, the IRS is on your ass, and could take you to jail.
this is a bad bill....and the ruling of it, has set a precident for things to come.
We did not exhaust all the ideas of allowing the free market to fix this mess. The government stepped in, and I have all the confidence it will be for the worse...for ALL Americans, especially those who had good insurance.
Yes, in time of need the USA government can make you go a lot of things. Like draft your ass into the military, take an oath giving up all of your freedoms.
Send your ass to war. Like the men in World War I, in World II, Korea and Vietnam. Getting your ass blown off and injured so bad you're brain dead. For me was was $88 a month. Wow! I made that in one week when I got back to Ford. :cry: baby.
Don't give me all that shit :cry: cry baby. It's about time that we joined the rest of the forward moving countries who have medical care for all When we get it, you will enjoy it, just like I enjoy Medicare. Henry, grow up and be a man about it. :doh:
Man Up, damn it. :haha: :haha:
Hystrionic personality disorder. Yep, describes the conservative GOP!
Sour grapes. All because that "uppity (n-word) in the white house" won ; twice!
Quote from: Palehorse on June 28, 2012, 06:12:13 PM
Hystrionic personality disorder. Yep, describes the conservative GOP!
Or it could be Border Line Personality Disorder. Extremely high highs and extremely low lows. Check it out on Goggle. :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 28, 2012, 06:14:06 PM
Sour grapes. All because that "uppity (n-word) in the white house" won ; twice!
Presidents from both parties have been trying to do this for 80 years and now we have a framework from which we can build. Had this been the work of a white Republican, these same people would be singing his praises...in fact, they did when Mitt Romney pushed almost exactly this same legislation through in Massachusetts and the Huffington Post praised the individual mandate. And yet, it isn't about politics or race...it's simply bad policy...fucking please.
I'll say it again...the only people who will be subjected to this new "tax" are those who can afford health insurance and
choose not to pay for it.
On a personal level, I was one of those people. Having been self employed for many, many years, I paid for my own health insurance. As I got older, my premiums increased every year until I decided it was too much to pay for health insurance that I never used anyway and let it expire. Fortunately, I wasn't involved in any serious accident nor did I experience any catastrophic health episode while uninsured but I could have been and if I had been, I'd have probably been forced to file bankruptcy leaving the health care system no alternative but to increase everyone else's costs to pay for me. During that time I was living in a 3,500 square foot house in VanBuskirk Heights and driving a $65,000.00 Mercedes with a $900.00 monthly payment. I could have easily continued to pay my health insurance premiums; I just didn't want to.
This law penalizes no one on this forum; it penalizes jackasses like me who have the means to pay for health insurance and
choose not to. Do you really have a problem with that?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 03:23:34 PM
And it does gripe my ass too,
Ex, does this not open the flood gates for congress to force Americans to buy anything they choose, and say if you don't, you will be taxed? If you don't pay the tax, the IRS will enforce this law, and you go to jail.
The precident has been set now.
Such as, in order to save electricity, you MUST buy solar panels. If you don't you will pay a tax. If you don't pay a tax, you CAN go to jail or pay a fine.
I've been busy today and haven't really had a chance to follow this thread, but the parts in bold are either purposeful deceptions on your part HH, pure ignorance of the ACA, or flat out lies. Which is it?
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 06:47:34 PM
I've been busy today and haven't really had a chance to follow this thread, but the parts in bold are either purposeful deceptions on your part HH, pure ignorance of the ACA, or flat out lies. Which is it?
Care to take a guess while he's bsy posting over and over again about what a liar Obama is?
Flat out lies? :big grin:
:biggrin:
You know after reading some of the "furious anger" over the SCOTUS decision by a lot of people on the Internet, I think a large part of it really boils down to what is depicted in Exterminator's cartoon on the first page of this thread. Most American are against the health care law until they find out exactly what's in it. And the reason that they're against it, is because it's been labelled by the media and by conservatives as Obamacare. Sad, but it really does seem to be true given a lot of what I'm reading.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/healthcareatax.jpg)
Quote from: me on June 28, 2012, 08:00:57 PM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/healthcareatax.jpg)
And the fear mongering part of that is a flat out, bald faced lie. Would you care to tell us why, or would you like me to do it?
This fits right in yet again:
"One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda." -- Locutus
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 08:08:25 PM
This fits right in yet again:
"One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda." -- Locutus
You know she :me: hasn't read the bill or heard someone explain what is in the bill. Buy, line by line of :me: post is bald face lie. You sure can tell who she been listening to. No mind of her own. Just like Rush Limppaw tells his Republican audence. You don't need to worry about anything, I'll tell you the truth. :haha: :haha: :haha:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 07:49:34 PM
You know after reading some of the "furious anger" over the SCOTUS decision by a lot of people on the Internet, I think a large part of it really boils down to what is depicted in Exterminator's cartoon on the first page of this thread. Most American are against the health care law until they find out exactly what's in it. And the reason that they're against it, is because it's been labelled by the media and by conservatives as Obamacare. Sad, but it really does seem to be true given a lot of what I'm reading.
So does that mean the reason people were against Hillary's healthcare bill is because it was named after her? Hum, I guess they were all woman haters too. Damn go figure. Think people think, it has nothing to do with Obama or his color it has to do with some simply don't like his healthcare bill period.
Quote from: me on June 28, 2012, 08:30:29 PM
So does that mean the reason people were against Hillary's healthcare bill is because it was named after her? Hum, I guess they were all woman haters too. Damn go figure. Think people think, it has nothing to do with Obama or his color it has to do with some simply don't like his healthcare bill period.
Please spell out exactly what it is that you don't like. You've already posted a graphic containing flat out lies, but I'm still willing to entertain your banter.
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 08:36:16 PM
Please spell out exactly what it is that you don't like. You've already posted a graphic containing flat out lies, but I'm still willing to entertain your banter.
Sticky Poo, this ObamaCare is a copy of Romneycare. Switzerland has this type of health insurance for over 20 years and a poll was taken among the Swiss and every body is happy with it. This in not England where they don't grow grapes. But it is still sour grapes from you :me: :rolleyes: :razz:
'
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 08:36:16 PM
Please spell out exactly what it is that you don't like. You've already posted a graphic containing flat out lies, but I'm still willing to entertain your banter.
Been there done that ain't doin' it again.
Quote from: me on June 28, 2012, 08:53:04 PM
Been there done that ain't doin' it again.
Then how are we to believe there's any validity to the points you claim to have made in light of today's ruling, especially since you just posted a graphic that contains flat out lies? Help me out here.
Anyone care to tell us what it is about the graphic that is a lie?
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 08:55:33 PM
Then how are we to believe there's any validity to the points you claim to have made in light of today's ruling, especially since you just posted a graphic that contains flat out lies? Help me out here.
Guess the SCOTUS fixed the part about being able to confiscate bank accounts but it is a tax which will be collected by the IRS and taken out of the peoples pocket. But it's probably gonna be a moot point anyway since most people will be on the government healthcare if things continue as they are and going to clinic like places for their healthcare.
Quote from: me on June 28, 2012, 09:11:37 PM
Guess the SCOTUS fixed the part about being able to confiscate bank accounts but it is a tax which will be collected by the IRS and taken out of the peoples pocket. But it's probably gonna be a moot point anyway since most people will be on the government healthcare if things continue as they are and going to clinic like places for their healthcare.
Actually, no they didn't "fix" that part; it was in the original bill had any of you bothered to educate yourselves about what's actually in there.
Now you just posted another lie. There's no part of this health care law that can possibly be construed as 'government healthcare.' Remember how the poor insurance companies didn't want the government option because they didn't want to have to 'unfairly compete' for insureds? The only thing government in there is the expansion of Medicaid, and surprisingly, that's the only part of the legislation that was limited by the SCOTUS.
Now you and HH have been going around here all day spreading lies about liens, levies, and jail time based on what? Are these your own conclusions, or things that you heard on the news or via an email? It doesn't matter really, because they're nothing more than lies. You two are but a microcosm of the problems that go on today. How many people like you are spreading those same lies on Internet forums, via email, on social media sites, in coffee shops, in restaurants, and the like all across this country?
How can anything be made better in this country as long as
SO many people are willing to spread pure, flat out lies?
It needs mentioned again. Think about what I'm saying here:
"One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda." -- Locutus
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
Now you and HH have been going around here all day spreading lies about liens, levies, and jail time based on what?
you are lying right now, when exactly did I say any lies about lien, levies and jailtime? I said, there will be some who are going to be taxed...that is true....and I said, if they decide not to pay that tax, the irs can do thier thing, and fine them or, jailtime....everything is true, and likely to happen under the new HC bill. not one lie, and I don't appreciate your insinuation...I like you, but don't go making crap up about what said or didnt say.
I don't have time now to get into this, but an apology would be nice.
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 09:35:40 PM
It needs mentioned again. Think about what I'm saying here:
"One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda." -- Locutus
take a long look in the mirror, before you make statements like that....
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 06:47:10 PM
Presidents from both parties have been trying to do this for 80 years and now we have a framework from which we can build. Had this been the work of a white Republican, these same people would be singing his praises...in fact, they did when Mitt Romney pushed almost exactly this same legislation through in Massachusetts and the Huffington Post praised the individual mandate. And yet, it isn't about politics or race...it's simply bad policy...fucking please.
I'll say it again...the only people who will be subjected to this new "tax" are those who can afford health insurance and choose not to pay for it.
On a personal level, I was one of those people. Having been self employed for many, many years, I paid for my own health insurance. As I got older, my premiums increased every year until I decided it was too much to pay for health insurance that I never used anyway and let it expire. Fortunately, I wasn't involved in any serious accident nor did I experience any catastrophic health episode while uninsured but I could have been and if I had been, I'd have probably been forced to file bankruptcy leaving the health care system no alternative but to increase everyone else's costs to pay for me. During that time I was living in a 3,500 square foot house in VanBuskirk Heights and driving a $65,000.00 Mercedes with a $900.00 monthly payment. I could have easily continued to pay my health insurance premiums; I just didn't want to.
This law penalizes no one on this forum; it penalizes jackasses like me who have the means to pay for health insurance and choose not to. Do you really have a problem with that?
They removed the ability of the insurance companies to refuse to sell to a person with a pre existing condition, right? What would stop people like you from paying the $95 and then buying insurance when they get sick? What do you think this will do to insurance premiums? Maybe it won't make any difference, but we won't know for a year or two. If I knew my doctor better I would ask him what he thought about it, although I believe he is employed by one of the local hospitals and doesn't have to worry about payments.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
you are lying right now, when exactly did I say any lies about lien, levies and jailtime? I said, there will be some who are going to be taxed...that is true....and I said, if they decide not to pay that tax, the irs can do thier thing, and fine them or, jailtime....everything is true, and likely to happen under the new HC bill. not one lie, and I don't appreciate your insinuation...I like you, but don't go making crap up about what said or didnt say.
I don't have time now to get into this, but an apology would be nice.
You said it just now and you said it before. Right here:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 03:57:55 PM
There is NOW a precident, that our federal government can FORCE us to buy anything they wish, as long as they have the votes....to mandate or pay a tax.
can they not, say all Americans MUST drive a hybrid car or pay a tax? of coarse if you don't pay your taxes, the IRS is on your ass, and could take you to jail.
this is a bad bill....and the ruling of it, has set a precident for things to come.
We did not exhaust all the ideas of allowing the free market to fix this mess. The government stepped in, and I have all the confidence it will be for the worse...for ALL Americans, especially those who had good insurance.
Those are flat out lies HH. Nothing in this law gives the IRS any power whatsoever to do any of the things you're suggesting in these two posts, and as a matter of fact, the law expressly forbids it. But you wouldn't know that because you're too busy spreading around what you've been fed by the entertainment outlets you choose to listen to in a day. It's a flat out lie. Lies don't have to be explicit, they can be implicit as well and that's exactly the kind of lying you and 'me' have been engaging in here today. You tied jail time to the enforcement of this law and that's simply not true.
Now please point out where I'm wrong about the assumptions, false accusations, and fear mongering that you and 'me' have been engaging in today. I'm all ears. Those words above are your words used in discussing the ACA on this thread from earlier today. You absolutely implied jail time while spreading your BS about this law and ruling.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 10:27:13 PM
take a long look in the mirror, before you make statements like that....
Why? I've already shown that I know more about this law than you apparently do. You're the one spreading the implication of 'jail time' for people who don't buy health care. That's a flat out lie HH. There's no way around it.
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
Why? I've already shown that I know more about this law than you apparently do. You're the one spreading the implication of 'jail time' for people who don't buy health care. That's a flat out lie HH. There's no way around it.
You can say anything about the lies that has gone on. BUT, OBAMACARE IS THE LAW OF LAND!
But, look up bone head John Boner is going to present a bill in the House of Representives tomorrow to repeal ObamaCare. :haha: :haha: What do you think of it passing through the Senate and what is the chance of Obama veto it. :haha: :haha:
Again after CNN and Fox News came out saying that ObamaCare was turned down by the Supreme and there was dancing in the streets by the Republicans, it was or not, didn't happen, not turned down, NO.
Oh the gnashing and grinding of the teeth, it was a dark days in Alice's Wonderland for the mighty Republicans for once again they stepped on their dicks. :haha: :haha: :haha:
:zoners:
Yep! Look at some of these early erroneous tweets!
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/380640_10150947387359705_1627801365_n.jpg)
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 11:45:44 PM
Yep! Look at some of these early erroneous tweets!
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/380640_10150947387359705_1627801365_n.jpg)
:rotfl: :rotfl:
After all of the dirty tricks from the Republican Party and all of the asshole sent to congress by the Tea Baggers. Locutus you can't believe the happiness that has filled my heart with this great victory over the assholes who said, "Our main job is to make Obama a one term president."
I have been so sick of the lying and deceiving the Republican party has pulled over the last three and a half years. I really think this is a momentous moment. With the Republican Supreme Court making law that Millionaires and Billionaires can give million of dollars to buy an election. We are going to kick The Golden Mitten ass and bury the son of a bitch. After this defeat, the Golden Con man, the Golden stick man. will go back to his $$28 Million home for just him and his wife, never to be heard from again. One Mormon bites the dust. :hunt: :zoners:
Those sons of bitches need to be horse-whipped!
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
Actually, no they didn't "fix" that part; it was in the original bill had any of you bothered to educate yourselves about what's actually in there.
Now you just posted another lie. There's no part of this health care law that can possibly be construed as 'government healthcare.' Remember how the poor insurance companies didn't want the government option because they didn't want to have to 'unfairly compete' for insureds? The only thing government in there is the expansion of Medicaid, and surprisingly, that's the only part of the legislation that was limited by the SCOTUS.
Now you and HH have been going around here all day spreading lies about liens, levies, and jail time based on what? Are these your own conclusions, or things that you heard on the news or via an email? It doesn't matter really, because they're nothing more than lies. You two are but a microcosm of the problems that go on today. How many people like you are spreading those same lies on Internet forums, via email, on social media sites, in coffee shops, in restaurants, and the like all across this country?
How can anything be made better in this country as long as SO many people are willing to spread pure, flat out lies?
How is it not government healthcare if people can't afford private insurance? Where are all the extra doctors coming from to keep it from being a clinic type thing, we already have a shortage of good doctors remember? Do you really believe we're all gonna get Cadillac healthcare when this thing kicks in in full?
Quote from: Locutus on June 28, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
Why? I've already shown that I know more about this law than you apparently do. You're the one spreading the implication of 'jail time' for people who don't buy health care. That's a flat out lie HH. There's no way around it.
How is it a lie. There are currently many tens of thousands of people in jail for tax-related charges. Especially those who choose NOT to pay taxes INTENTIONALLY.
Is it NOT possible, there will be those who choose "NOT to be forced" to buy something they do NOT WANT....the IRS will be the collecting agencey now, since the Courts ruled it IS a tax. The IRS has put plenty in jail for tax evasion. "Apparently" you did not KNOW something, huh?
show me, where it is in the law, that the IRS cannot impose penalties, including jail time to those who choose NOT to pay taxes owed to them.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 07:58:34 AM
How is it a lie. There are currently many tens of thousands of people in jail for tax-related charges. Especially those who choose NOT to pay taxes INTENTIONALLY.
Is it NOT possible, there will be those who choose "NOT to be forced" to buy something they do NOT WANT....the IRS will be the collecting agencey now, since the Courts ruled it IS a tax. The IRS has put plenty in jail for tax evasion. "Apparently" you did not KNOW something, huh?
show me, where it is in the law, that the IRS cannot impose penalties, including jail time to those who choose NOT to pay taxes owed to them.
It is to bad that we have people of your ilk who think they don't have to pay taxes. Every since George Washington sent troop to stop the whiskey rebellion we have had to pay taxes, we had to pay war taxes to fight the English. That is the dues you have to pay to live in this country. Name one country where you don't have to pay taxes. :confused:
The people who choose not to pay taxes chose where they wanted to live, prison. I think we might add another law to tax invaders. First you take everything they have, bought with money they didn't pay taxes on and throw them out of the country. Making it so that they can't return or conduct any kind of business in the USA. Make them a total outcast. :rant:
So why don't you shut the fuck up. ObamaCare is the law of the land and you little man can't do a damn thing about it. :yes: Hawk if you don't want to pay taxes here in America, give up your citizenship pack up your ass and leave. Mexico would be a place for you. You won't have to pay much tax down there, because you won't be making much money. I would love to see you standing at the border looking into America and you can't come back. You know, you really don't deserve to live here. Bye, Bye. :azz:
Quote from: The Troll on June 29, 2012, 08:52:21 AM
It is to bad that we have people of your ilk who think they don't have to pay taxes.
STFU! Show me where I said, or any republican, says we think we should not pay taxes! dumb fucking bitch!
This is how you roll fuckhead, make shit up and spew out bullshit you hear on your liberal fucking TV news shows.
STFU!
(that felt gooood!) :yes: it is POS like you who is fucking our country all to hell, thinking you are smarter than those who actually KNOW when we are losing freedoms to the crooks on capital hill.
The good news is, we can fix this mess, and we are engergized now to vote those sons of bitches out!
(Man, this feels good today!!) :wink: :razz:
(http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/06/28/health3_s640x727.jpg?d7424c57cb812afd2cfbb84826bdce2ccfba6288)
(http://keithgrossman.com/rand.jpg)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 03:23:34 PM
Ex, does this not open the flood gates for congress to force Americans to buy anything they choose, and say if you don't, you will be taxed? If you don't pay the tax, the IRS will enforce this law, and you go to jail.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 28, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
when exactly did I say any lies about lien, levies and jailtime?
Quote from: me on June 28, 2012, 09:11:37 PM
Guess the SCOTUS fixed the part about being able to confiscate bank accounts
If this stuff weren't so sad, it would be funny.
Fox screwed up, but it's OK with them .... :rolleyes:
The cable news networks, going on the early parts of Chief Justice John Roberts' opinion, initially reported that the court had struck down the mandate to buy health insurance.
Fox justified its reporting, saying it "gave our viewers the news as it happened."
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/CNN-Fox-screwed-up-early-reports-on-health-ruling-3672116.php (http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/CNN-Fox-screwed-up-early-reports-on-health-ruling-3672116.php)
What idiots! Not for screwing it up, but for refusing to admit it. And then lying about it. It wasn't the " news as it happened." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Olias on June 29, 2012, 11:03:22 AM
Fox screwed up, but it's OK with them .... :rolleyes:
. . .
Guess we now know where all those tweets that were wrong came from. They all are watching Faux news. :rolleyes: :mad:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 09:29:16 AM
(http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/06/28/health3_s640x727.jpg?d7424c57cb812afd2cfbb84826bdce2ccfba6288)
Misleading to say the least. Look at annual costs to health insurance providers. 10.17 b is LESS than 60.1 b, and yet the visual would indicate otherwise.
Then they are rolling in black liquor tax credits for bio-fuel. What exactly does this have to do with healthcare???? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :roll eyes:
And that's just a cursory, visual analysis of this propaganda!
Quote from: Olias on June 29, 2012, 11:03:22 AM
Fox screwed up, but it's OK with them .... :rolleyes:
The cable news networks, going on the early parts of Chief Justice John Roberts' opinion, initially reported that the court had struck down the mandate to buy health insurance.
Fox justified its reporting, saying it "gave our viewers the news as it happened."
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/CNN-Fox-screwed-up-early-reports-on-health-ruling-3672116.php (http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/CNN-Fox-screwed-up-early-reports-on-health-ruling-3672116.php)
What idiots! Not for screwing it up, but for refusing to admit it. And then lying about it. It wasn't the " news as it happened." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And you just happened to fail to mention that CNN did the same thing.... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 29, 2012, 12:03:45 PM
Guess we now know where all those tweets that were wrong came from. They all are watching Faux news. :rolleyes: :mad:
Or CNN
Quote from: Palehorse on June 29, 2012, 12:06:26 PM
Misleading to say the least. Look at annual costs to health insurance providers. 10.17 b is LESS than 60.1 b, and yet the visual would indicate otherwise.
Then they are rolling in black liquor tax credits for bio-fuel. What exactly does this have to do with healthcare???? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :roll eyes:
And that's just a cursory, visual analysis of this propaganda!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 09:29:16 AM
(http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/06/28/health3_s640x727.jpg?d7424c57cb812afd2cfbb84826bdce2ccfba6288)
Quote from: me on June 29, 2012, 12:37:36 PM
And you just happened to fail to mention that CNN did the same thing.... :rolleyes:
Are you a total moron? Did you miss the entire point of my post - "What idiots! Not for screwing it up, but for refusing to admit it. And then lying about it. "
Yes, CNN screwed it up too. But what did CNN say about it? "CNN said it had wrongly reported the decision and that it "regrets that it didn't wait to report out the full and complete opinion regarding the mandate."
Unlike the idiots at Fox and the morons who defend them ... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 07:58:34 AM
How is it a lie. There are currently many tens of thousands of people in jail for tax-related charges. Especially those who choose NOT to pay taxes INTENTIONALLY.
Is it NOT possible, there will be those who choose "NOT to be forced" to buy something they do NOT WANT....the IRS will be the collecting agencey now, since the Courts ruled it IS a tax. The IRS has put plenty in jail for tax evasion. "Apparently" you did not KNOW something, huh?
show me, where it is in the law, that the IRS cannot impose penalties, including jail time to those who choose NOT to pay taxes owed to them.
Jeezus HH! I'll look it up in a little bit and post it but Roberts even mentioned it in his ruling. Saying that people can go to jail for failure to comply with fees mandated by the ACA is a lie. There's no way around it.
Excerpts:
Congress specifically did not allow the use of liens and seizures of property as methods of enforcing the penalty.
Non-compliance with the mandate is also not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Tax Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay the penalty in a timely manner, according to the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.
~~~~~~~~~
NBC's Pete Williams reported that Roberts reasoned that "there's no real compulsion here" since those who do not pay the penalty for not having insurance can't be sent to jail. "This is one of the scenarios that administration officials had considered that if the court did this they would consider it a big victory," Williams said.
^^ Now don't let that stop you and 'me' from continuing your fear mongering and lying. I said it before and I'll say it again. When you implied jail time for failure to comply with the ACA, it was a flat out lie, either made knowingly or unknowingly.
Quote from: Olias on June 29, 2012, 10:58:42 AM
If this stuff weren't so sad, it would be funny.
Unbelievable, isn't it??
Quote from: Locutus on June 29, 2012, 12:58:19 PM
...it was a flat out lie, either made knowingly or unknowingly.
Was; not it's absolutely being made knowingly.
:biggrin:
The abject ignorance and stupidity is beyond belief.
Quote from: Locutus on June 29, 2012, 01:41:38 PM
:biggrin:
The abject ignorance and stupidity is beyond belief.
You say that like it's a new thing. :wink:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 09:15:04 AM
The good news is, we can fix this mess, and we are engergized now to vote those sons of bitches out!
I agree, we vote out every one of the cheating, lying fuck head Republican Congressman in every political office in the country. :yes: :smile:
Amazingly silent since the lies have been pointed out. :roll eyes:
Just still hoping HH and I aren't the ones saying "I told ya so."
Quote from: Locutus on June 29, 2012, 02:38:23 PM
Amazingly silent since the lies have been pointed out. :roll eyes:
S.O.P.
Quote from: Olias on June 29, 2012, 02:51:20 PM
S.O.P.
Yep. And unfortunately it's S.O.P. for a certain segment of the voting population all across this country. :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on June 29, 2012, 12:58:19 PM
^^ Now don't let that stop you and 'me' from continuing your fear mongering and lying. I said it before and I'll say it again. When you implied jail time for failure to comply with the ACA, it was a flat out lie, either made knowingly or unknowingly.
It took me some time to find the time to read the ruling.
and I surrender and stand corrected pertaining the jail time. This WAS indeed part of the original Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962)
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583 (http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583)
This is what happens when the SOH Pelosi, tells everyone that "we have to pass the bill to see what exactly is in the bill".
With that being said, I still find it hard to believe that "jail time" or stiffer penalties would soon be applied. As it is now, there is no REAL punishment to NOT pay.
I think we are not going to see how much of this whole bill plays out for yet a couple of years.
But, I throw up the white flag, and aaaaaaaa....adddddddddd.......admiiiiiii...........this is hard. :spooked:
Admit! (there I said it)....I got (this one) wrong. :mad: :razz:
That's 8), Henry.
http://www.votersmarket.com/NewTaxes.aspx
0
The Obamacare Taxes (Over $500 Billion in New Taxes) Last update: June 29, 2012
Year Description Revenue
2010 Tax on Innovator Drug Companies: $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. $22.2 Billion
2010 Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals: $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS.
2010 Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike: The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. $0.4 Billion
2010 Tax on Indoor Tanning Services: New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. $2.7 Billion
2010 "Black liquor" tax Credit. This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. This substance, a wood-pulping byproduct, is utilized as a biofuel to generate electricity for paper-making companies throughout the U.S $23.6 Billion
2010 Codification of the "economic substance doctrine". This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. $4.5 Billion
2011 Medicine Cabinet Tax: Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). $5 Billion
2011 Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2: Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.
2011 Increase penalty for nonqualified HSA distributions. $1.4 Billion
2011 Annual tax on drug manufacturers / importers. $27 Billion
2012 Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting: Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers. $17.1 Billion
2013 Increase In Medicare Payroll Tax (For single employees making over $200,000/year and married employees making over $250,000/year): Payroll Tax currently at 1.45% increases to 2.9%. Self-employed tax is increased to 3.8%. $86.8 Billion
2013 Surtax on Other Investment Income: A new, 3.8 percent surtax on "Other" investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). Taxes are increased from 39.6% to 43.4% Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens. It DOES however, include the sale of your home. $123 Billion
2013 Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka "Special Needs Kids Tax": Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). . There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children.
There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education.
Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. $13 Billion
2013 Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers: Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100. $20 Billion
2013 Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI: Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. $15.2 Billion
2013 Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D. $4.5 Billion
2013 $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives. $0.6 Billion
2013 Limit deduction for remuneration to officers, employees, directors, and service providers of certain health insurance providers. $0.6 Billion
2013 Impose fee on insured and self-insured health plans; patient-centered outcomes research trust fund. $2.6 Billion
2014 Individual Health Insurance Mandate:
Starting in 2014, you will be required to obtain qualified health insurance for yourself and any dependants or pay a penalty (tax) for every month you are not covered. You are allowed a coverage gap of less than 90 days every year.
The penalty begins in 2014 and phases up to its maximum amount in 2016. You will either have to pay a set dollar amount of $695 per year (adjusted for inflation) or 2.5% of your base household income, whichever is higher. Your base income is defined as any amount over the filing threshold for the applicable tax year.
The penalty is assessed for every person in your house who does not have insurance up to a cap of 300 percent of the set dollar amount. In 2016, this cap would be $2,085. If you are a dependent under 18, your set dollar amount is cut in half.
If you are required to pay a penalty but fail to do so, you will receive a notice from Internal Revenue Service (IRS). If you still fail to pay, the IRS can reduce the amount of your future tax refunds by the amount owed. Also, if you fail to pay, your penalty will double.
$17 Billion
2014 Employer Mandate Tax: If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for every full-time employee. This provision applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). $65 Billion
(Combined individual and employer mandate tax penalty.)
2014 Tax on Health Insurers: Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. $60.1 Billion
2018 Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans: New 40 percent excise tax on "Cadillac" health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). For early retirees and high-risk professions a higher threshold exists: ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed. $32 Billion
Other Targets
2011 Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed. Under current law, a retired person with an IRA can contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA. This contribution also counts toward an annual "required minimum distribution." This ability will no longer be there.
Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced. The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available. Tax credits for education will be limited. Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses. Education Savings Accounts will be cut. Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed. The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.
Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear. Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or "depreciate") equipment purchases up to $250,000. This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can expense half of their purchases of equipment. In January of 2011, all of it will have to be "depreciated."
The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year. According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center, Congress' failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families—rising from 4 million last year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT was created in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.
Higher taxes on marriage and family. The "marriage penalty" (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level. The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.
Federal payments required by President Barack Obama's health care law are being understated by as much as $50 billion per year because official budget forecasts ignore the cost of insuring many employees' spouses and children, according to a new analysis. $500 Billion
2012 Cuts from Medicare To Help Fund Obamacare $500 Billion
2012 Cuts from Medicare Advantage To Help Fund Obamacare $132 Billion
2012 The Medicare Part B premium will increase from the present monthly fee of $96.40, rising to $104.20 in 2012, $120.20 in 2013, and $247 in 2014. That's an increase of 156 percent in just three years. Those provisions are embedded in Obamacare but were delayed by the Democratic bill writers until after the 2012 election in order to hide them from voters.
OK Rose Blossom, I have heard you babble forever about ObamaCare. Now that it is the law of the land. LAW OF THE LAND. Please tell us why you got your panties all bunched up in your butt crack over it. :confused:
It's about time we got medical care for everybody. Of course you have been living pretty high off off the hog with your union health benefits and your Medicare and Social Security and the tax cut Obama got for you. Why can't everybody have the same thing that you have had all of your miserable live. Why? This message is for the big broad who has her panties all bunched up. :haha: :haha:
More lies. Proven that IRS cannot impose penalties yet here it is again in more of the propaganda. Also, wtf does black liquor have to do with the healthcare act???
The more you guys regurgitate this bs the Dumber you look!
Quote from: Palehorse on June 29, 2012, 07:55:17 PM
More lies. Proven that IRS cannot impose penalties yet here it is again in more of the propaganda. Also, wtf does black liquor have to do with the healthcare act???
The more you guys regurgitate this :bs: the Dumber you look!
It sound like it is read off the talking point of the Republican Party. Talking points right off of Fox New and all of the Koch brother paid for Republican blogs. :no: What a frigging shame. :rant:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 03:49:15 PM
But, I throw up the white flag, and aaaaaaaa....adddddddddd.......admiiiiiii...........this is hard. :spooked:
Admit! (there I said it)....I got (this one) wrong. :mad: :razz:
Confession is good for the soul HH. ;D
Glad you got yourself straightened out. :yes:
:chick: :uncle: :uncle: :uncle: :uncle: :uncle: :haha: :rotfl: :uncle: :uncle: :chick:
I'm still not understanding just what the hell the connection is between black liquor and the Healthcare Reform Act / Affordable Care Act.
After over a decade in the paper making industry I know full well what black liquor itself is and what it is used for. . . I fail to understand how, even with the most tendon snapping stretch possible, there is any connection between it and the healthcare law. . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 07, 2009, 04:31:37 PM
:biggrin:
Problem is, from an ecological standpoint, using TP to do the dirty work is not good for the environment. It kills trees, (not at the level producing an SBS sheet does, and in fact it does involve a measure of recycled fiber in most formulations, however virgin fibers are necessary to incorporate strength into the sheet being produced, lest you end up with poopie finger), uses a LOT of water, and can contribute to pollution of the water tables in those areas where less than admirable water management/treatment initiatives are undertaken.
Then there's the energy consumption producing those cotton-colored rolls of skid mark sheets induces. Most paper making requires a lot of electricity, water, and energy to provide us with the items we use every day, and many of the companies that produce them are far ahead of the curve when it comes to energy conservation.
One of the by products of this process, regardless of whether you are making folding carton stock or ass wipe, is black liquor, and the industry long ago figured out how to utilize it to fuel turbines to produce their own electricity.
I could go on. . . :smile:
Quote from: The Troll on June 29, 2012, 07:44:50 PM
OK Rose Blossom, I have heard you babble forever about ObamaCare. Now that it is the law of the land. LAW OF THE LAND. Please tell us why you got your panties all bunched up in your butt crack over it. :confused:
It's about time we got medical care for everybody. Of course you have been living pretty high off off the hog with your union health benefits and your Medicare and Social Security and the tax cut Obama got for you. Why can't everybody have the same thing that you have had all of your miserable live. Why? This message is for the big broad who has her panties all bunched up. :haha: :haha:
Ya just don't get it do ya Troll? We are not going to get Cadillac care like you think it just ain't gonna happen.
Quote from: me on June 30, 2012, 12:47:00 AM
Ya just don't get it do ya Troll? We are not going to get Cadillac care like you think it just ain't gonna happen.
Do you honestly believe that I'd would believe anything you say. You have lied and lied and lied about everything. I sure am not going to believe you on this. :trustme:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 29, 2012, 11:58:49 PM
I'm still not understanding just what the hell the connection is between black liquor and the Healthcare Reform Act / Affordable Care Act.
After over a decade in the paper making industry I know full well what black liquor itself is and what it is used for. . . I fail to understand how, even with the most tendon snapping stretch possible, there is any connection between it and the healthcare law. . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Absolutely nothing, just another way they use to get money without anyone knowing about it until it is too late.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 09:29:16 AM
(http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/06/28/health3_s640x727.jpg?d7424c57cb812afd2cfbb84826bdce2ccfba6288)
Quote from: Anne on June 30, 2012, 11:25:53 AM
Absolutely nothing, just another way they use to get money without anyone knowing about it until it is too late.
So this is nothing but a deceitful way of getting the sheep hyped up and in a emotional state in order to insight them to make their choice for POTUS based upon emotion rather than critical thought.
Nothing more than republican dirty tricks. . . again. . .
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- Florida Gov. Rick Scott is saying Florida will do nothing to comply with President Barack Obama's health care overhaul.
Scott recently said he would follow the law if it were upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. But he went on national television on Friday night and said Florida will not take any steps to help carry out the overhaul.
Scott said on Fox News that the state would not expand the Medicaid program in order to lower the number of uninsured residents. The governor also said that Florida would not set up a state-run health exchange, or a marketplace where people needing insurance policies could shop for them.
The governor said that expanding eligibility of Medicaid to those just above the poverty level would not help the citizens of Florida.
http://m.floridatoday.com/breakingnews/article?a=2012120630002&f=1220
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I can't WAIT until the people of Florida get a chance to throw that fucking asshole out of office in two years. I don't see how he even got elected in the first place given his background. He only won by a very thin margin.
Quote from: Locutus on June 30, 2012, 12:09:51 PM
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I can't WAIT until the people of Florida get a chance to throw that fucking asshole out of office in two years. I don't see how he even got elected in the first place given his background. He only won by a very thin margin.
Can't they recall the bastard. They tried on Wisconsin and just by a little bit they missed. But, they sure show showed where the workers hearts were.
But with Scott, it sure would embarrass him and the republican party. :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on June 30, 2012, 01:51:43 PM
Can't they recall the bastard. They tried on Wisconsin and just by a little bit they missed. But, they sure show showed where the workers hearts were.
But with Scott, it sure would embarrass him and the republican party. :haha:
No recall law in Florida. We're stuck with that fucker for 2 1/2 more years. :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on June 30, 2012, 02:59:35 PM
No recall law in Florida. We're stuck with that fucker for 2 1/2 more years. :mad:
Where oh where is John Hinkley or James Earl Ray. Then without them, you need to elect a whole bunch or good Democrats to stifle that asshole. The middle class day is coming. :biggrin:
Hypocrites!
The conservatives are trying to bash the POTUS over the requirement that those who can afford healthcare be required to obtain it and pay for it. Yet, Mitt Romney not only supported this but it was a part of his plan as Gub'na!
How else do you explain this shit? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 12:39:11 PM
Hypocrites!
The conservatives are trying to bash the POTUS over the requirement that those who can afford healthcare be required to obtain it and pay for it. Yet, Mitt Romney not only supported this but it was a part of his plan as Gub'na!
How else do you explain this shit? :rolleyes:
Exterminator explained it quite nicely right here:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 11:04:08 AM
(http://keithgrossman.com/ocare.jpg)
:yes: ;D
Ya'll really need to talk to the guy who owns the house across the street from me who is from Canada, owns some businesses and property there and here and get enlightened about how things are going to be here when this takes effect. He is from here, his wife is from Canada, and they had decided a few years ago to buy property here and move to the states. To make a long story short they are seeing things going the way of Canada here and are not happy campers. they were sick of their businesses being taxed like crazy, they are small businesses not a large corporation, and waiting 6 months to see a doctor when they are sick and now it's going to be the same here. Yes, you call it anecdotal evidence but it's factual and real experience which goes a lot further with me than "projected" figures and "projected" evidence which is not in any way fact. I have a niece-in-law who is from Canada, a cousin who lived there for most of her adult life and have talked to other people who are from there and have moved here and they all say the same thing, we don't want what we're about to get because it is not going to work for the better like we are being lead to believe. Call me names and say I'm stupid or whatever but I will not change my mind about this healthcare deal and will not change my mind about the current administrations policies. We have been sold out by both parties and are in one hell of a mess.
This law is nothing like Canada's.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 01, 2012, 01:15:04 PM
This law is nothing like Canada's.
Indeed. One very stark difference is that Canada has a single payor system while the US is not.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 01, 2012, 01:15:04 PM
This law is nothing like Canada's.
Is that going to make the wait time any shorter when you try to see a doctor? Is that going to give the poor the money to have "Cadillac" healthcare so they can be seen as quickly as those who can afford it? Do you hear doctors excited to accept more patients with medicare and Medicaid? If it's going to be so great why wouldn't the liberals in congress go on it too when the conservatives wanted to make it part of the bill? Remember, they made themselves exempt from the bill. Why?
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 01:37:11 PM
Is that going to make the wait time any shorter when you try to see a doctor? Is that going to give the poor the money to have "Cadillac" healthcare so they can be seen as quickly as those who can afford it? Do you hear doctors excited to accept more patients with medicare and Medicaid? If it's going to be so great why wouldn't the liberals in congress go on it too when the conservatives wanted to make it part of the bill? Remember, they made themselves exempt from the bill. Why?
I assume you are on, or soon will be on, medicare/medicaid. THAT is a single payor system just like Canada's. Are you "waiting"?
That tripe is so full of "myths" it isn't funny.
The Myths of Canada's HealthcareCanadians are flocking to the US for care:The most comprehensive study I've seen on this topic — it employed three different methodologies, all with solid rationales behind them — was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.
The authors of the study started by surveying 136 ambulatory care facilities near the U.S.-Canada border in Michigan, New York and Washington. It makes sense that Canadians crossing the border for care would favor places close by, right? It turns out, however, that about 80 percent of such facilities saw, on average, fewer than one Canadian per month; about 40 percent had seen none in the preceding year.
Then, the researchers looked at how many Canadians were discharged over a five-year period from acute-care hospitals in the same three states. They found that more than 80 percent of these hospital visits were for emergency or urgent care (that is, tourists who had to go to the emergency room). Only about 20 percent of the visits were for elective procedures or care.
Next, the authors of the study surveyed America's 20 "best" hospitals — as identified by U.S. News & World Report — on the assumption that if Canadians were going to travel for health care, they would be more likely to go to the best-known and highest-quality facilities. Only one of the 11 hospitals that responded saw more than 60 Canadians in a year. And, again, that included both emergencies and elective care.
Finally, the study's authors examined data from the 18,000 Canadians who participated in the National Population Health Survey. In the previous year, 90 of those 18,000 Canadians had received care in the United States; only 20 of them, however, reported going to the United States expressively for the purpose of obtaining care.
Doctors are coming to the US from CanadaThe Canadian Institute for Health Information has been tracking doctors' destinations since 1992. Since then, 60 percent to 70 percent of the physicians who emigrate have headed south of the border. In the mid-1990s, the number of Canadian doctors leaving for the United States spiked at about 400 to 500 a year. But in recent years this number has declined, with only 169 physicians leaving for the States in 2003, 138 in 2004 and 122 both in 2005 and 2006. These numbers represent less than 0.5 percent of all doctors working in Canada.
So when emigration "spiked," 400 to 500 doctors were leaving Canada for the United States. There are more than 800,000 physicians in the United States right now, so I'm skeptical that every doctor knows one of those émigrés. But look closely at the tan line in the following chart, which represents the net loss of doctors to Canada.
In 2004, net emigration became net immigration. Let me say that again. More doctors were moving into Canada than were moving out.
Canada rations health care; that's why hip replacements and cataract surgeries happen faster in the United States.
When people want to demonize Canada's health care system — and other single-payer systems, for that matter — they always end up going after rationing, and often hip replacements in particular.
Take Republican Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri, for example. A couple of years ago he took to the House floor to tell his colleagues:
"I just hit 62, and I was just reading that in Canada [if] I got a bad hip I wouldn't be able to get that hip replacement that [Rep. Dan Lungren] got, because I'm too old! I'm an old geezer now and it's not worth a government bureaucrat to pay me to get my hip fixed."
Sigh.
This has been debunked so often, it's tiring. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch, for example, concluded: "At least 63 percent of hip replacements performed in Canada last year [2008] ... were on patients age 65 or older." And more than 1,500 of those, it turned out, were on patients over 85.
The bottom line: Canada doesn't deny hip replacements to older people.
But there's more.
Know who gets most of the hip replacements in the United States? Older people.
Know who pays for care for older people in the United States? Medicare.
Know what Medicare is? A single-payer system.
Canada has long wait times because it has a single-payer system.The wait times that Canada might experience are not caused by its being a single-payer system.
Wait times aren't like cancer. We know what causes wait times; we know how to fix them. Spend more money.
Our single-payer system, which is called Medicare (see above), manages not to have the "wait times" issue that Canada's does. There must, therefore, be some other reason for the wait times. There is, of course. It's this:
In 1966, Canada implemented a single-payer health care system, which is also known as Medicare. Since then, as a country, Canadians have made a conscious decision to hold down costs. One of the ways they do that is by limiting supply, mostly for elective things, which can create wait times. Their outcomes are otherwise comparable to ours.
Please understand, the wait times could be overcome. Canadians could spend more. They don't want to. We can choose to dislike wait times in principle, but they are a byproduct of Canada's choice to be fiscally conservative.
Yes, they chose this. In a rational world, those who are concerned about health care costs and what they mean to the economy might respect that course of action. But instead, they attack the system.
Canada rations health care; the United States doesn't.This one's a little bit tricky. The truth is, Canada may "ration" by making people wait for some things, but here in the United States we also "ration" — by cost.
An 11-country survey carried out in 2010 by the Commonwealth Fund, a Washington-based health policy foundation, found that adults in the United States are by far the most likely to go without care because of cost. In fact, 42 percent of the Americans surveyed did not express confidence that they would be able to afford health care if seriously ill.
Further, about a third of the Americans surveyed reported that, in the preceding year, they didn't go to the doctor when sick, didn't get recommended care when needed, didn't fill a prescription or skipped doses of medications because of cost.
Finally, about one in five of the Americans surveyed had struggled to pay or were unable to pay their medical bills in the preceding year. That was more than twice the percentage found in any of the other 10 countries.
And remember: We're spending way more on health care than any other country, and for all that money we're getting at best middling results.
So feel free to have a discussion about the relative merits of the U.S. and Canadian health care systems. Just stick to the facts.
http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.3.html (http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.3.html)
Go ahead and believe everything you see in print if you want I prefer the actual straight from the horses mouth real life experiences to go with.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 01:56:58 PM
Go ahead and believe everything you see in print if you want I prefer the actual straight from the horses mouth real life experiences to go with.
Like Faux News, feel free to make things up as you go along. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 01:57:59 PM
Like Faux News, feel free to make things up as you go along. :rolleyes:
And you're saying that they can't/don't just print what they want you to believe? Give me a break just because it's in print doesn't make it so. Yes, some in Canada who have known nothing else may like what they have but those who have experienced both know better. My niece-in-law thought Canada's health care was good too until she lived here for a couple of years and experienced the difference and now knows better. Hell, her sister who is a nurse at one of the hospitals in Canada even knows better.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 01:37:11 PM
Is that going to make the wait time any shorter when you try to see a doctor? Is that going to give the poor the money to have "Cadillac" healthcare so they can be seen as quickly as those who can afford it? Do you hear doctors excited to accept more patients with medicare and Medicaid? If it's going to be so great why wouldn't the liberals in congress go on it too when the conservatives wanted to make it part of the bill? Remember, they made themselves exempt from the bill. Why?
If you're really sick and need to see a doctor. Go to emergency, just like you can do now. Just like my family doctor told me. If you feel really bad and you need to see right now. Don't waste your time, go to emergency. Because I would probably not be able to handle it here in my office. Think, Think, Think my little Punkin. :kiss: THINK! :doh:
Quote from: The Troll on July 01, 2012, 02:12:40 PM
If you're really sick and need to see a doctor. Go to emergency, just like you can do now. Just like my family doctor told me. If you feel really bad and you need to see right now. Don't waste your time, go to emergency. Because I would probably not be able to handle it here in my office. Think, Think, Think my little Punkin. :kiss: THINK! :doh:
Yes, that works out great but if you need an emergency operation then what? Is that operation going to be covered or ok'ed? Remember a lot of procedures are going to have to be ok'ed before they can be done. Will you have a choice of surgeons?
I've read that there is a shortage of doctors, esp. family physicians. I know when we had to find a new doctor two years ago, I called St. John's to see who was taking new patients. The first thing they wanted to know was if we were on Medicare because some doctors were not taking Medicare patients. I was told most tried to keep their Medicare patients to 10 percent of their practice. We found a doctor without any trouble but if they continue cutting medicare payments I wonder if more doctors will refuse Medicare patients? We haven't had long waits to see any kind of doctors so far.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 02:24:49 PM
Yes, that works out great but if you need an emergency operation then what? Is that operation going to be covered or ok'ed? Remember a lot of procedures are going to have to be ok'ed before they can be done. Will you have a choice of surgeons?
If you have to have an emergency operation, you won't even leave the hospital. They will operate on you immediately. Just like a couple of months ago, I broke a rib and went in for an X-ray. They found the broken rib and they also found pneumonia. I didn't leave the hospital, they put me in a bed and dump a whole lot of antibiotics in me and I was there for two and a half days.
Cut the bullshit :me: You sound like you not only fell off your rocker, damn you also broke the rocker, my little red headed chickadee. :kiss;
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 01:48:29 PM
That tripe is so full of "myths" it isn't funny.
Even when given facts to the contrary, she chooses to cling to anecdote and hearsay. But, of course, it couldn't be because Obama is black, it's all about his policies. My ass.
Quote from: The Troll on July 01, 2012, 02:40:03 PM
If you have to have an emergency operation, you won't even leave the hospital. They will operate on you immediately. Just like a couple of months ago, I broke a rib and went in for an X-ray. They found the broken rib and they also found pneumonia. I didn't leave the hospital, they put me in a bed and dump a whole lot of antibiotics in me and I was there for two and a half days.
Cut the bullshit :me: You sound like you not only fell off your rocker, damn you also broke the rocker, my little red headed chickadee. :kiss;
That's now what about later AFTER the full healthcare thing kicks in?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 01, 2012, 03:31:23 PM
Even when given facts to the contrary, she chooses to cling to anecdote and hearsay. But, of course, it couldn't be because Obama is black, it's all about his policies. My ass.
Hearsay is what you get third or fourth hand not first hand. You are getting hearsay from me but I'm just passing on what I was told first hand. That is why I'm saying talk to someone who is experiencing it I'm sure with your vast wealth and wide circle of friends you know people who have lived in or are from Canada. Let me ask you this how do you know what you are reading is factual? Wasn't that info gathered asking people and getting opinions? How do you know the writer of the article didn't embellish or "change" figures to fit his personal opinion?
. . .was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.. . .
Guess you missed that eh?
And here's a link to the peer reviewed and published study:
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full)
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 04:39:27 PM
. . .was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.. . .
Guess you missed that eh?
And here's a link to the peer reviewed and published study:
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full)
And so?????? What peer's reviewed it? What are their political leanings? Are all of them physicians? What is Project Hope who has the copyright on that publication and is the current administration involved with them in any way? You look it up I already did. Like I said it is only opinion based on the research results they chose because I ran across differing opinions by other "peers" based on their research results. Research can be skewed to get the results a particular group wants for differing reasons and if you can't see that and quit pulling the race card like is being constantly done I give up. Just because it happens to be one out of many health journals doesn't make it the be all and end all opinion wise.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 04:25:21 PM
That's now what about later AFTER the full healthcare thing kicks in?
Don't know, I don't worry, because it won't be as bad as your handlers say. Just scare tactics from the republican dirty tricks team. Just like a big hungry catfish. You take their bait hook, line and sinker. :doh: :wall:
When are you going to wise up and wake up and smell the roses, Baby Cake. :kiss:
Quote from: The Troll on July 01, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Don't know, I don't worry, because it won't be as bad as your handlers say. Just scare tactics from the republican dirty tricks team. Just like a big hungry catfish. You take their bait hook, line and sinker. :doh: :wall:
When are you going to wise up and wake up and smell the roses, Baby Cake. :kiss:
Look there is already a shortage of doctors already...fact. Thousands more will be getting care after this kicks in....fact. Doctors will quit accepting medicare and medicaid and only see patients who have premium policies or can pay out of pocket.....fact. Many people will not be able to afford premium health care....fact. Most will be forced into clinic type settings and won't get care as good as they're getting now because of the change. If you think everyone will get premium health care and have our own private physicians and can call and get an appointment and get right in like now you've hit your head. Most will be going to the local clinic and waiting hours for their turn to see whatever physician happens to be there at the time. Not to mention who is going to be making the medical devices needed for tests and treatments after the tax on them is implemented? Yes, that is part of the bill and I haven't heard anything about it being removed.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 06:27:20 PM
And so?????? What peer's reviewed it? What are their political leanings? Are all of them physicians? What is Project Hope who has the copyright on that publication and is the current administration involved with them in any way? You look it up I already did. Like I said it is only opinion based on the research results they chose because I ran across differing opinions by other "peers" based on their research results. Research can be skewed to get the results a particular group wants for differing reasons and if you can't see that and quit pulling the race card like is being constantly done I give up. Just because it happens to be one out of many health journals doesn't make it the be all and end all opinion wise.
Don't strain a muscle with all that stretching. You might have to hit the ER or something. . .
Founded in 1958, Project HOPE (Health Opportunities for People Everywhere) is dedicated to providing lasting solutions to health problems with the mission of helping people to help themselves. Identifiable to many by the SS HOPE, the world's first peacetime hospital ship, Project HOPE now provides medical training and health education, as well as conducts humanitarian assistance programs in more than 35 countries.
Over the past five decades, Project HOPE has demonstrated its ability to develop and permanently institute long-term solutions to pressing health problems, the true essence of helping people help themselves.
Project HOPE remains as committed as ever to addressing the world's new health threats by playing a leadership role forging new alliances among those on the frontlines of health and together seek new solutions.
HOPE's Mission: To achieve sustainable advances in health care around the world by implementing health education programs and providing humanitarian assistance in areas of need.
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 07:25:11 PM
Don't strain a muscle with all that stretching. You might have to hit the ER or something. . .
Founded in 1958, Project HOPE (Health Opportunities for People Everywhere) is dedicated to providing lasting solutions to health problems with the mission of helping people to help themselves. Identifiable to many by the SS HOPE, the world's first peacetime hospital ship, Project HOPE now provides medical training and health education, as well as conducts humanitarian assistance programs in more than 35 countries.
Over the past five decades, Project HOPE has demonstrated its ability to develop and permanently institute long-term solutions to pressing health problems, the true essence of helping people help themselves.
Project HOPE remains as committed as ever to addressing the world's new health threats by playing a leadership role forging new alliances among those on the frontlines of health and together seek new solutions.
HOPE's Mission: To achieve sustainable advances in health care around the world by implementing health education programs and providing humanitarian assistance in areas of need.
And if their leanings are toward that type of health care that is what they're going to go for. It is still the opinions of the people who happen to be there at the time. The next group of "peers" could see it differently. I would say as people have changed over the years their opinions on things have also changed. Where were they when Hillary tried to get her healthcare bill passed? Since they've been around since 1958 why haven't they been more vocal about this type of healthcare and why do we not already have it?
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 07:37:50 PM
And if their leanings are toward that type of health care that is what they're going to go for. It is still the opinions of the people who happen to be there at the time. The next group of "peers" could see it differently. I would say as people have changed over the years their opinions on things have also changed. Where were they when Hillary tried to get her healthcare bill passed? Since they've been around since 1958 why haven't they been more vocal about this type of healthcare and why do we not already have it?
Okay. . . I forgot you have to be walked through every step of understanding accreditation and peer review. . . Never mind then. . . Live in your state of delusion and be happy with it. . . :rolleyes:
I haven't got time to walk you through it. Had you
really read and understood what was posted you might learn something. . . :roll eyes:
. . .
This paper by Steven Katz and colleagues depicts this popular perception as more myth than reality, as the number of Canadians routinely coming across the border seeking health care appears to be relatively small, indeed infinitesimal when compared with the amount of care provided by their own system. Katz is an associate professor in the Departments of Medicine and Health Policy and Management at the University of Michigan. Karen Cardiff is a research associate at the University of British Columbia's Centre for Health Services and Policy Research. Also at the University of British Columbia are Morris Barer, professor and director at the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research's Department of Health Care and Epidemiology, and Robert Evans, professor at the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research's Department of Economics. Marina Pascali is a Dallas-based health care consultant.. . .
But I guess your neighbor knows more than these learned professionals eh? What school of higher learning did they go to again? :roll eyes:
Why don't you just admit that you saw "Project Hope" and automagically made a connection between this peer reviewed work and article and the sitting POTUS? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 07:57:41 PM
Okay. . . I forgot you have to be walked through every step of understanding accreditation and peer review. . . Never mind then. . . Live in your state of delusion and be happy with it. . . :rolleyes:
I haven't got time to walk you through it. Had you really read and understood what was posted you might learn something. . . :roll eyes:
. . .This paper by Steven Katz and colleagues depicts this popular perception as more myth than reality, as the number of Canadians routinely coming across the border seeking health care appears to be relatively small, indeed infinitesimal when compared with the amount of care provided by their own system. Katz is an associate professor in the Departments of Medicine and Health Policy and Management at the University of Michigan. Karen Cardiff is a research associate at the University of British Columbia's Centre for Health Services and Policy Research. Also at the University of British Columbia are Morris Barer, professor and director at the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research's Department of Health Care and Epidemiology, and Robert Evans, professor at the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research's Department of Economics. Marina Pascali is a Dallas-based health care consultant.. . .
But I guess your neighbor knows more than these learned professionals eh? What school of higher learning did they go to again? :roll eyes:
Why don't you just admit that you saw "Project Hope" and automagically made a connection between this peer reviewed work and article and the sitting POTUS? :rolleyes:
He, my NIL and her family, my cousin, and some other people I know are or were living it the research people just wrote about it after studying it. A lot of people coming over for care aren't just going to the closest states or hospitals so that study was only part of the story. There are also people who would come but may lack the funds to do so. Have you seen doctors lining up to take medicare and medicaid patients?
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 08:19:13 PM
He, my NIL and her family, my cousin, and some other people I know are or were living it the research people just wrote about it after studying it. A lot of people coming over for care aren't just going to the closest states or hospitals so that study was only part of the story. There are also people who would come but may lack the funds to do so. Have you seen doctors lining up to take medicare and medicaid patients?
:rolleyes:
Clearly I am not going to convince you where you are clearly wrong; no one is. The only thing that is going to convince you is "living the nightmare of your own creation". The problem with that is you drag the rest of us down along with you.
I'm not going, and I will do my damnedest to ensure that the
real information is available to those who would take the time and be willing to expend the effort to educate themselves before joining the sheep herd.
You guys go ahead and hold your Tea thingamajig. That seems to be about the right speed for the likes of you. . . :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 08:23:55 PM
:rolleyes:
Clearly I am not going to convince you where you are clearly wrong; no one is. The only thing that is going to convince you is "living the nightmare of your own creation". The problem with that is you drag the rest of us down along with you.
I'm not going, and I will do my damnedest to ensure that the real information is available to those who would take the time and be willing to expend the effort to educate themselves before joining the sheep herd.
You guys go ahead and hold your Tea thingamajig. That seems to be about the right speed for the likes of you. . . :rolleyes:
And, like I keep saying, I certainly hope I'm not the one saying "I told you so."
Many years back the American Medical Ass. made a study, held in secret, that the colleges were producing too many doctors driving down the wages that the doctors were making. They also lobbied to cut down the number of doctors coming in from other nations with Quotas and the requirements to become an American certified doctor. Take years to qualify.
All you have to do is open up the borders to foreign doctors and increase the number of doctors from the medical schools. It's a dirty little secret the AMA dreamed up to keep the wages up.
It is amazing how many colleges have over the years have increase the number of lawyers, but not the doctors. :rant:
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 01:07:17 PM
Ya'll really need to talk to the guy who owns the house across the street from me who is from Canada, owns some businesses and property there and here and get enlightened about how things are going to be here when this takes effect. He is from here, his wife is from Canada, and they had decided a few years ago to buy property here and move to the states. To make a long story short they are seeing things going the way of Canada here and are not happy campers. they were sick of their businesses being taxed like crazy, they are small businesses not a large corporation, and waiting 6 months to see a doctor when they are sick and now it's going to be the same here. Yes, you call it anecdotal evidence but it's factual and real experience which goes a lot further with me than "projected" figures and "projected" evidence which is not in any way fact. I have a niece-in-law who is from Canada, a cousin who lived there for most of her adult life and have talked to other people who are from there and have moved here and they all say the same thing, we don't want what we're about to get because it is not going to work for the better like we are being lead to believe. Call me names and say I'm stupid or whatever but I will not change my mind about this healthcare deal and will not change my mind about the current administrations policies. We have been sold out by both parties and are in one hell of a mess.
Sweet Pee, ::) did you know that there are private hospitals and private doctors that you can go to for immediately attention in Canada and England. All you have to do is pay for it, just like here. You surly can't expect the nasty old government to pay for every thing. Can you? :nono: :shrug:
Quote from: The Troll on July 01, 2012, 09:35:14 PM
Sweet Pee, ::) did you know that there are private hospitals and private doctors that you can go to for immediately attention in Canada and England. All you have to do is pay for it, just like here. You surly can't expect the nasty old government to pay for every thing. Can you? :nono: :shrug:
Sweetheart don't you realize not everyone can afford to do that? Don't you want poor people to get good health care too? Talked to him some more about it when we went to Frazier's tonight and it would be a real eye opener for ya'll to hear how things are up there for sure. He did say there were some differences but there are also a lot of similarities and they aren't good. I was also talking to his SIL who is Canadian as well as his MIL who is also Canadian.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2012, 10:18:48 PM
Sweetheart don't you realize not everyone can afford to do that? Don't you want poor people to get good health care too? Talked to him some more about it when we went to Frazier's tonight and it would be a real eye opener for ya'll to hear how things are up there for sure. He did say there were some differences but there are also a lot of similarities and they aren't good. I was also talking to his SIL who is Canadian as well as his MIL who is also Canadian.
Well Bumpkin, the American medical care isn't to good. We are at the bottom of a long list of countries that out lives us. All of the modern nations have got us bet. Also the birth death are the worse in American of the modern countries.
There was a really good new show on CNN tonight examining the health care in other countries. And Bumpkin the United States suck in medical care. Wake up and smell the coffee and take your head out of your ass. :doh:
I got an idea Punkin Head, take your bunched up panties off and throw them away and relax. ObamaCare is the Law Of The Land and you can do anything about. :yes: Relax and blow off your boilers, let some steam out. :yes:
Go bake a couple of punkin pies put some whip cream on them and relax. :wink: :smile:
Quote from: The Troll on July 02, 2012, 12:03:49 AM
Well Bumpkin, the American medical care isn't to good. We are at the bottom of a long list of countries that out lives us. All of the modern nations have got us bet. Also the birth death are the worse in American of the modern countries.
There was a really good new show on CNN tonight examining the health care in other countries. And Bumpkin the United States suck in medical care. Wake up and smell the coffee and take your head out of your ass. :doh:
Ya and Michael Moore did a thing on Cuba's medical care too and they didn't take him to where the ordinary citizen has to go for care. Like I said, I sure hope I'm not the one saying I told you so when it kicks in in full force.
Quote from: Palehorse on July 01, 2012, 08:23:55 PM
Clearly I am not going to convince you where you are clearly wrong; no one is.
Dude, if she admits she's wrong she'd have to admit that the real reason that she doesn't like Obama is that she's racist and he's black.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 02, 2012, 10:00:19 AM
Dude, if she admits she's wrong she'd have to admit that the real reason that she doesn't like Obama is that she's racist and he's black.
I guess then the reason I didn't like the healthcare bill Hillary wanted was because she's white and a woman. Makes as much sense as what you're saying about Obama's ya know. :rolleyes:
Red herring; we aren't talking about Hillary's health care plan.
Quote from: me on July 02, 2012, 12:37:10 AM
Ya and Michael Moore did a thing on Cuba's medical care too and they didn't take him to where the ordinary citizen has to go for care. Like I said, I sure hope I'm not the one saying I told you so when it kicks in in full force.
Oh, did you watch his whole movie to it's end. I watched it and I think the cover the health care problem we have in this country very well. :yes: :biggrin:
Right here in this country, where you live will determine what kind of health care that you can get. If you live in the country in the sticks of Louisana, Arkansas, Mississippi Delta. Out in the wild West were it is miles and miles to the nearest big hospital your health care is some to to be desired.
Cut the petty :bs: :me: You're not getting anywhere with someone who has a bigger brain the yourself. Wild Flower. :kiss:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 02, 2012, 11:56:55 AM
Red herring; we aren't talking about Hillary's health care plan.
No, it is not a red herring it is a legit comparison because of the excuse you're using for a similar thing. Hillary proposed a healthcare bill which I did not like, Obama has a healthcare bill which I do not like has nothing to do with gender, color, or nationality I just don't like the bill. As for the reasons you'll find them scattered about in various posts so I'm not repeating them again.
Quote from: me on July 02, 2012, 01:34:22 PM
.....I just don't like the bill law.
FTFY. :wink:
Blah, blah, blah...we really don't know whether you opposed Hillary's health care bill at all and if so, to what lengths you were willing to lie, distort and omit simply to justify your position. On Obama's bill law, we do know that and your willingness to ignore fact so that you can frame it as something it is not would lead any thinking person to believe you have ulterior motives. I think it's pretty plain what they are.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 02, 2012, 01:45:12 PM
Blah, blah, blah...we really don't know whether you opposed Hillary's health care bill at all and if so, to what lengths you were willing to lie, distort and omit simply to justify your position. On Obama's bill law, we do know that and your willingness to ignore fact so that you can frame it as something it is not would lead any thinking person to believe you have ulterior motives. I think it's pretty plain what they are.
It will not be fact until it is fully implemented and we see the actual outcome. As of now it is only projection as to how it is supposed to work and there are differing opinions on it.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 02, 2012, 01:45:12 PM
Blah, blah, blah...we really don't know whether you opposed Hillary's health care bill at all and if so, to what lengths you were willing to lie, distort and omit simply to justify your position. On Obama's bill law, we do know that and your willingness to ignore fact so that you can frame it as something it is not would lead any thinking person to believe you have ulterior motives. I think it's pretty plain what they are.
What was it that :me: and the republicans use to say when we bitch about the Supreme Court giving George W. the presidency. "GET OVER IT, WE WON!" So :me: why don't you quit your bitching and STFP. My little Step and Fetch It. O0 :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on July 02, 2012, 02:08:23 PM
What was it that :me: and the republicans use to say when we bitch about the Supreme Court giving George W. the presidency. "GET OVER IT, WE WON!" So :me: why don't you quit your bitching and STFP. My little Step and Fetch It. O0 :biggrin:
You may not like what you got either ass wipe. You'd better hope I'm not the one saying "I told you so" in a couple of years.
Quote from: me on July 02, 2012, 02:26:25 PM
ass wipe.
"See, Henry? When they don't have a valid argument, they resort to name calling."
Quote from: Olias on July 02, 2012, 02:38:03 PM
"See, Henry? When they don't have a valid argument, they resort to name calling."
Yep they do don't they. Quote from: The Troll on July 02, 2012, 02:08:23 PM
What was it that :me: and the republicans use to say when we bitch about the Supreme Court giving George W. the presidency. "GET OVER IT, WE WON!" So :me: why don't you quit your bitching and STFP. My little Step and Fetch It. O0 :biggrin:
Hey Troll, just out of curiosity...what does STFP stand for? :spooked: :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 02, 2012, 02:52:31 PM
Hey Troll, just out of curiosity...what does STFP stand for? :spooked: :razz:
It's plain and simple. S = Shut T = the F = Fuck and I made a typing error. It was to U= Up. It did screw it up, like you never make a typing error. :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on July 02, 2012, 03:00:38 PM
It did screw it up, like you never make a typing error. :biggrin:
"It did".... ;D
Now that the dust has settled down..........am I understanding this properly? But did the SCOTUS just clearly indicate, for a fact, that Obama and the democrats LIED?
Either they lied or the bill is unconstitutional, right?
Which is it? :confused:
I think both answers are right. ;)
But, it is what it is. It has been rather interesting just to sit back and watch how the last 6 years has unfolded.
I will continue to watch with deep interest, as just how a party can continue to blame another party for the destruction of this nation.
Just a few thoughts to open my morning with.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 08:19:43 AM
Now that the dust has settled down..........am I understanding this properly? But did the SCOTUS just clearly indicate, for a fact, that Obama and the democrats LIED?
I don't know. Is Romney lying every time he claims that he didn't raise taxes on the people of Massachusetts by instituting a personal mandate there?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 03, 2012, 10:08:28 AM
I don't know. Is Romney lying every time he claims that he didn't raise taxes on the people of Massachusetts by instituting a personal mandate there?
Oh, the answer the question with another question trick...... ;)
Did Obama and the Democrats LIE, to get this bill passed?
It seems to me, in simplest form, that a tax imposed without representation, IS an act of tyranny!
Is it not? :confused:
Aw, is the big, bad government forcing people to be responsible and get insurance rather than letting them continue to sponge off of everyone else for their healthcare needs? Cry babies.
BTW, the Heritage Foundation lauded the idea of the individual mandate and your boy Bod Dole actually ran on it and your candidate instituted it in his home state. Didn't seem to be an issue until a black man put it in place.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 10:17:17 AM
Did Obama and the Democrats LIE, to get this bill passed?
Can't answer it huh?...........I think you did...
He's not lying any more than you are when you claim you aren't racist.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 03, 2012, 10:39:34 AM
He's not lying any more than you are when you claim you aren't racist.
So is HE LYING to pass his bill? YES, is that a YES?
I can say to you 100%, I am not against him, based upon his skin color. That is 100% FACT.
Can you say that he did no lie, to the American people that there is NO taxes in the HC bill?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 10:44:29 AM
I can say to you 100%, I am not against him, based upon his skin color. That is 100% FACT.
Bullshit. There is no other logical explanation for you to be so critical of him for having instituted what is essentially a Republican plan.
Amazing how HH and 'me' continue to belabor the point of a tax/fee/penalty that will affect only 1-2% of the population, and a percentage of which neither one of them is likely included. That lends a large amount of credence to Exterminator's racism statements. Neither of them are going to be affected by it, but yet here they are daily screaming like stuck pigs over something that their own presidential candidate has done himself in the past. :roll eyes:
Fucking unbelievable.
Quote from: Locutus on July 03, 2012, 11:25:02 AM
Neither of them are going to be affected by it, but yet here they are daily screaming like stuck pigs over something that their own presidential candidate has done himself in the past.
If anything, they both stand to benefit from it.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 03, 2012, 11:20:10 AM
Bullshit. There is no other logical explanation for you to be so critical of him for having instituted what is essentially a Republican plan.
Just because Romney did it for Massachutes, does not mean it is a repubican plan. That is bullshit if you are buying that load of crap sold by the left.
How is being critical of a trillion dollars stimulus bill, that did not help the nation, as he said it would, have anything whatsoever to do with his skin. Quit it. That is just BS and propaganda, accusing those who disagree with this potus is racist. I am critical of a HC bill, that was passed, before congress knew what all was in it. One that had closed door meanings, and was passed by the Senate on Christmas Eve. They could not even muster up ONE republican vote!!! Not one!
I not just disliked Obama for this, I disliked Reid and Pelosi, who are white btw.
Locutus, how can you say, that we will not be affected by it? How can one not be affected by the fact it now grants the federal government even more power over the people?
Why is it that liberals can just apathetically ignore this?
Not going to bicker on this much today, or any day now. What is done is done. Let's sit back and watch. Time will tell us who benifits from this. If it is as good as you guys claim, I will have to eat crow. But.....but. Lets leave it at that.
Henry cry, :cry: :cry: all you want, scream about Obama all your want. :cry: :cry: Nobody gives a shit about what you're saying. But, ObamaCare is the law of the land. Don't you understand that most people don't think Obama lied. Only you, get your shorts out off of your ass and quit crying :cry: :cry: It's over we win! :haha: :haha:
Quote from: The Troll on July 03, 2012, 12:06:51 PM
Henry cry, :cry: :cry: all you want, scream about Obama all your want. :cry: :cry: Nobody gives a shit about what you're saying. But, ObamaCare is the law of the land. Don't you understand that most people don't think Obama lied. Only you, get your shorts out off of your ass and quit crying :cry: :cry: It's over we win! :haha: :haha:
Troll, it is just not me....but over half the nation as against this bill in the first place and wanted a repeal.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
the fact is Troll, Obama DID lie...that is a well documented fact now, that the SCOTUS proved. They (the dems) misled the American people to "sell' their goods....it was poor leadership, that is obvious now.
How the new healtcare law benefits you. (http://ofa.bo/Gzeeh5)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 12:13:54 PM
Troll, it is just not me....but over half the nation as against this bill in the first place and wanted a repeal.
Over half the nation are inbred racists; so what's your point?
Pretty easy to avoid the "tax" - get health insurance.
"But I can't afford it". - This pressure will ensure that the healthcare local markets get created and implemented. Once that is done it should put pricing well within reach of most, when coupled with subsidization.
"I don't agree with the government forcing me to buy what I don't want." - Well I don't agree with it costing me more in premiums and out of pocket expenses because the likes of you refuse to pay for the insurance or the tens of thousands of ER visits and medical care you incur each year. I end up paying for your care, so it's about time you pony up. Oh, and by the way, why aren't you bitching about the mandatory car insurance and homeowners insurance that were mandated as well???
The reality is we all will benefit from this bill; some by increased coverages and lower premiums, and some by actually having coverage for the first time in decades.
It eliminates the draconian practices of health insurers that allowed them to deny just about anything and apply it toward your deductible; or exclude certain conditions as pre existing. Or outright denying coverage because an individual has a disease. . .
Oh and by the way, NEWSFLASH - This isn't regulating the doctors or hospitals or healthcare providers. It's the insurers dummies!
Quote from: Exterminator on June 28, 2012, 11:04:08 AM
(http://keithgrossman.com/ocare.jpg)
This deserves reposting. . . :yes:
for who?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68UKtf8lAU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68UKtf8lAU)
just more lies!! :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 12:36:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68UKtf8lAU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68UKtf8lAU)
just more lies!! :yes:
Spin. . . and nothing but. (From your side not the POTUS's).
The reality is, once the ACA is fully implemented premiums should fall drastically. But likely the employers, while they COULD afford to give us a raise, won't. Why? Greed. :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 03, 2012, 01:05:14 PM
Spin. . . and nothing but. (From your side not the POTUS's).
The reality is, once the ACA is fully implemented premiums should fall drastically. But likely the employers, while they COULD afford to give us a raise, won't. Why? Greed. :mad:
3,000%....REALLY!?! and why do you believe it will decrease by 3,000%? Can you show me HOW exactly it can drop 3,000%...and you are saying the it is a spin, NOT by the POTUS? REALLY?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 01:09:42 PM
3,000%....REALLY!?! and why do you believe it will decrease by 3,000%? Can you show me HOW exactly it can drop 3,000%...and you are saying the it is a spin, NOT by the POTUS? REALLY?
Cry baby.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 03, 2012, 01:11:09 PM
Cry baby.
great answer,....and again, a common tactic by liberals to avoiding a REAL answer.
There is no answer to your nonsensical, racist rants.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 03, 2012, 01:16:22 PM
There is no answer to your nonsensical, racist rants.
Why can you not answer some simple questions. This is the second very simple question I have asked you today, and you come back with a "racist" response.
methinks you are not quite as intelligent as you want people to so desperatly think you are. How is it possible for a premium to drop 3,000 percent, and what proof does the POTUS have to support it, rather than just want his sheeple to blindly follow his words?
I hope the ACA includes a provision for funding for a lot more of these because it looks like we're going to need them!
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110903160436/uncyclopedia/images/b/be/Whambulance.jpg)
Can't answer it can you.... :no:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 02:04:05 PM
Can't answer it can you.... :no:
I'm guessing that it was supposed to be 30% and someone typed too many zeroes or left out the decimal point:
"Now, so let me talk about the third thing, which is my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for families, for businesses, and for the federal government. So Americans buying comparable coverage to what they have today — I already said this — would see premiums fall by 14 to 20 percent — that's not my numbers, that's what the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says — for Americans who get their insurance through the workplace. How many people are getting insurance through their jobs right now? Raise your hands. All right. Well, a lot of those folks, your employer it's estimated would see premiums fall by as much as 3,000 percent [sic], which means they could give you a raise."Pretty simple explanation unless you're so blinded by racial hatred that you spend all day every day looking for trivial shit to stir.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 03, 2012, 01:25:43 PM
Why can you not answer some simple questions. This is the second very simple question I have asked you today, and you come back with a "racist" response.
methinks you are not quite as intelligent as you want people to so desperatly think you are. How is it possible for a premium to drop 3,000 percent, and what proof does the POTUS have to support it, rather than just want his sheeple to blindly follow his words?
Why don't you get the boys at the office and you can have a big piety party. :cry: :cry: :cry: Cause Obama won. Get over it we won. We won, We won. Obama :no1: :bliss: :bliss: :bliss: :4th2: :4th4: :4th3:
And for you Henry -----> :4th5:
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/399365_3394909520601_996000321_n.jpg)
Quote from: Palehorse on July 04, 2012, 12:36:23 AM
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/399365_3394909520601_996000321_n.jpg)
Amen, brother Horse, is comes from the devil :devil: the super rich, the corporations, the religious right and the republicans. :trustme:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 29, 2012, 03:49:15 PM
It took me some time to find the time to read the ruling.
and I surrender and stand corrected pertaining the jail time. This WAS indeed part of the original Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962)
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583 (http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583)
This is what happens when the SOH Pelosi, tells everyone that "we have to pass the bill to see what exactly is in the bill"...
You know I'm SO sick of hearing that line used SO stupidly, I could just scream.
If someone doesn't know anything about how our government works so s/he thinks that there is something wrong or ridiculous with Pelosi's statement, then s/he prolly shouldn't be 'opining' on any matters pertaining to government.
I shouldn't even have to explain that, but anyone with even a modicum of knowledge understands a bill isn't set in stone until it's passed, so why is it RW's must continually show their ignorance?
Quote from: Y on July 18, 2012, 11:04:09 PM
You know I'm SO sick of hearing that line used SO stupidly, I could just scream.
If someone doesn't know anything about how our government works so s/he thinks that there is something wrong or ridiculous with Pelosi's statement, then s/he prolly shouldn't be 'opining' on any matters pertaining to government.
I shouldn't even have to explain that, but anyone with even a modicum of knowledge understands a bill isn't set in stone until it's passed, so why is it RW's must continually show their ignorance?
there is a freaking problem with our system, when we have to pass a bill to see what all is in it. I'm sure that this was not the first, but to even say those words as she did was ignorant on her part.
Too many politicians are noted for stuffing laws into bills that have NOTHING to do with the law that is being passed. Too many personal earmarks and such. The ignorance was well presented by Pelosi, no argument to it.
Quote from: Y on July 18, 2012, 11:04:09 PM
You know I'm SO sick of hearing that line used SO stupidly, I could just scream.
If someone doesn't know anything about how our government works so s/he thinks that there is something wrong or ridiculous with Pelosi's statement, then s/he prolly shouldn't be 'opining' on any matters pertaining to government.
I shouldn't even have to explain that, but anyone with even a modicum of knowledge understands a bill isn't set in stone until it's passed, so why is it RW's must continually show their ignorance?
That is the problem with the HCB. Now that it has passed and people are beginning to find out what's in it they don't like it but it's too late now to do anything about it which is what she knew. Why is it stupid to want to know what's in a bill before it's passed? How is this line being used stupidly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usJ-pMomvLQ
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 19, 2012, 08:40:10 AM
there is a freaking problem with our system, when we have to pass a bill to see what all is in it. I'm sure that this was not the first, but to even say those words as she did was ignorant on her part.
Too many politicians are noted for stuffing laws into bills that have NOTHING to do with the law that is being passed. Too many personal earmarks and such. The ignorance was well presented by Pelosi, no argument to it.
It's really tough that you don't like Pelosi, you like the rest of the Republican men. You don't like smart women and you want them to stand in the back ground while you guys try your ass off trying to shine. It sure isn't working in the House. :yes: :rolleyes:
I like Pelosi, I think she very intelligent and clever and I like her and I like the job she has done. I sure can't say that for the Republican men in congress. Especially the men who were idiots to sign Grover Norquist stupid pledge. Who the next Republican to get in the Republican's clown car. :thubb: :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Troll on July 19, 2012, 09:01:36 AM
It's really tough that you don't like Pelosi, you like the rest of the Republican men. You don't like smart women and you want them to stand in the back ground while you guys try your ass off trying to shine. It sure isn't working in the House. :yes: :rolleyes:
I like Pelosi, I think she very intelligent and clever and I like her and I like the job she has done. I sure can't say that for the Republican men in congress. Especially the men who were idiots to sign Grover Norquist stupid pledge. Who the next Republican to get in the Republican's clown car. :thubb: :rolleyes:
Guess that means you don't like women and are a racist because you bad mouth Condoleezza and Palin.
Now, now, now, watch it with the reply or you'll prove my point. (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/Smileys/acutesmiley.gif)
Quote from: me on July 19, 2012, 01:33:18 PM
Guess that means you don't like women and are a racist because you bad mouth Condoleezza and Palin.
Now, now, now, watch it with the reply or you'll prove my point. (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/Smileys/acutesmiley.gif)
Now I can't help myself when you talk about two of the dumbest broads in the Republican Party. Let the dumb one go back to Alaska and let George W's secret love play her piano. :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on July 19, 2012, 07:24:38 PM
Now I can't help myself when you talk about two of the dumbest broads in the Republican Party. Let the dumb one go back to Alaska and let George W's secret love play her piano. :biggrin:
Yep, yer a racist woman hater for sure.
Quote from: me on July 19, 2012, 07:32:13 PM
Yep, yer a racist woman hater for sure.
You're so funny. :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :bsflag:
Quote from: The Troll on July 19, 2012, 10:41:18 PM
You're so funny. :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :bsflag:
I think she is right troll.... you are 100% racist!!
Me, let's just play like they do and aimless call others (well Troll anyway...) names.......JUST for the FUN of it!!! (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 20, 2012, 08:24:53 AM
I think she is right troll.... you are 100% racist!!
Me, let's just play like they do and aimless call others (well Troll anyway...) names.......JUST for the FUN of it!!! (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
Yep! Henry you don't know shit! :haha: Have a good day Bird Boy. :salute:
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICA?
The Supreme Court ruled by five lawyers dressed in a black robes screws the people of America out of their civil rights.
Five right wing Republicans Supreme Court judges voted to give the corporations, billionaires and millionaire the right to buy our country lock stock and barrel. Buy our crooked Republican politicians and spend huge amounts of money to defeat the people they the billionaire and millionaires don't want and the Right Wing calls this freedom. :angry:
Just think five, just 5 men, Right Wing Republicans out of 314 Million American citizens voted to screw each and every one of us out of our freedom. They should be impeached and tried for treason against the United States of America. :rant:
This little piece of treason has had to have been planned for years. Just like the Voter ID to keep people who they think will vote against the Republican Party. :rant: This can't not stand, for our life and freedom is gone forever. :( :( :(
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 20, 2012, 08:24:53 AM
I think she is right troll.... you are 100% racist!!
Me, let's just play like they do and aimless call others (well Troll anyway...) names.......JUST for the FUN of it!!! (http://theunknownzone.dailynuisanceproductions.com/Smileys3/default/zonelaughing.gif)
Tried that and they act like we're the ones that do it all the time and get worse so let them have at it and just continue to try to have an adult conversation with a bunch of foul mouthed nut balls and maybe they'll catch on one of these days how to be civil to someone who has opposing opinions. Well, I guess it is mostly Troll the others aren't too bad.
Go for it, talk to each other, you guys would know what you are talking about. No one else knows or gives a damn. Just climb into you Republican car and leave. :bike:
Quote from: The Troll on July 20, 2012, 02:35:02 PM
Go for it, talk to each other, you guys would know what you are talking about. No one else knows or gives a damn. Just climb into you Republican car and leave. :bike:
Troll, I would venture to say I have a better relationship with MOST of the people on here than you do....I think YOU and EX perhaps may not give a damn....I'm not going anywhere, I don't think ME is either, we been here since the beginning...
I think I will continue to point out the error of your ways....and maybe some day, you will see the LIGHT!! :yes: ;) :razz:
Quote from: The Troll on July 20, 2012, 02:35:02 PM
Go for it, talk to each other, you guys would know what you are talking about. No one else knows or gives a damn. Just climb into you Republican car and leave. :bike:
If we did you'd go crazy not having anyone to badmouth and curse at.
Quote from: me on July 20, 2012, 05:32:04 PM
If we did you'd go crazy not having anyone to badmouth and curse at.
You're right about that. :thumbsup: I do get to vent all of my anger on you Republicans, I know I can't make a diamond out of a piece of coal like you guys are. :doh: But I do enjoy getting out all of the venom I feel for the Republican Party. :yes: :yes: :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: The Troll on July 20, 2012, 08:58:59 PM
You're right about that. :thumbsup: I do get to vent all of my anger on you Republicans, I know I can't make a diamond out of a piece of coal like you guys are. :doh: But I do enjoy getting out all of the venom I feel for the Republican Party. :yes: :yes: :yes: :biggrin:
And in doing that you are just living proof or how nasty natured and intolerant of those of opposing opinions Dems are. :razz:
Quote from: me on July 20, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
And in doing that you are just living proof or how nasty natured and intolerant of those of opposing opinions Dems are. :razz:
Thank you, I appreciate how you enjoy my hatred for the Republican Party. I use to respect the GOP. It's not that way anymore. Nothing but deceit and working so hard to ruin the country. So the Republican main job is to make Obama a one term president.
I have got to say you, George W. and the Republican has done a real job on killing this country. What is so bad about it, you people are proud of it. Pure racist hatred of the first black president America has every had. I hope you people get what you so deserve. I wish I could stay out of the bad coming times if Romney wins. I just don't have the money to live out of the country, like so many super rich can with their off shored million of dollars. :rant:
Quote from: The Troll on July 20, 2012, 10:06:39 PM
Thank you, I appreciate how you enjoy my hatred for the Republican Party. I use to respect the GOP. It's not that way anymore. Nothing but deceit and working so hard to ruin the country. So the Republican main job is to make Obama a one term president.
I have got to say you, George W. and the Republican has done a real job on killing this country. What is so bad about it, you people are proud of it. Pure racist hatred of the first black president America has every had. I hope you people get what you so deserve. I wish I could stay out of the bad coming times if Romney wins. I just don't have the money to live out of the country, like so many super rich can with their off shored million of dollars. :rant:
Isn't it always the goal of the opposition to make who ever is in office at the time a one term president no matter which party it is? Ain't no different this time. :razz:
Quote from: me on July 21, 2012, 12:34:56 AM
Isn't it always the goal of the opposition to make who ever is in office at the time a one term president no matter which party it is? Ain't no different this time. :razz:
But this Republican/Tea Party is a different breed of subhumans. Never in the history of America has a group of subhumans stoop it the levels of depravity as this Republican/Tea Party has.
The highest record number of filibusters by a minority party in the history in American history. Never in history has such a large number of grown adults marching in lock step with Grover Norquist, blocking everything with a vote of NO, NO, NO, NO. The Republican/Tea party has done everything possible to make Obama a one term president, to a point of destroying our country.
You must be real proud to belong to such a traitorous Party. :busted: