SCOTUS upholds Affordable Care Act in its entirety!

[Locutus]

Hypocrites!

The conservatives are trying to bash the POTUS over the requirement that those who can afford healthcare be required to obtain it and pay for it. Yet, Mitt Romney not only supported this but it was a part of his plan as Gub'na!

How else do you explain this shit? 

Exterminator explained it quite nicely right here:

 

[me]

Ya'll really need to talk to the guy who owns the house across the street from me who is from Canada, owns some businesses and property there and here and get enlightened about how things are going to be here when this takes effect.  He is from here, his wife is from Canada, and they had decided a few years ago to buy property here and move to the states.  To make a long story short they are seeing things going the way of Canada here and are not happy campers.  they were sick of their businesses being taxed like crazy, they are small businesses not a large corporation, and waiting 6 months to see a doctor when they are sick and now it's going to be the same here.  Yes, you call it anecdotal evidence but it's factual and real experience which goes a lot further with me than "projected" figures and "projected" evidence which is not in any way fact.  I have a niece-in-law who is from Canada, a cousin who lived there for most of her adult life and have talked to other people who are from there and have moved here and they all say the same thing, we don't want what we're about to get because it is not going to work for the better like we are being lead to believe. Call me names and say I'm stupid or whatever but I will not change my mind about this healthcare deal and will not change my mind about the current administrations policies.  We have been sold out by both parties and are in one hell of a mess.   

[Exterminator]

This law is nothing like Canada's.

[Palehorse]

This law is nothing like Canada's.

Indeed. One very stark difference is that Canada has a single payor system while the US is not.

[me]

This law is nothing like Canada's.

Is that going to make the wait time any shorter when you try to see a doctor?  Is that going to give the poor the money to have "Cadillac" healthcare so they can be seen as quickly as those who can afford it?  Do you hear doctors excited to accept more patients with medicare and Medicaid?  If it's going to be so great why wouldn't the liberals in congress go on it too when the conservatives wanted to make it part of the bill?   Remember, they made themselves exempt from the bill.  Why? 

[Palehorse]

Is that going to make the wait time any shorter when you try to see a doctor?  Is that going to give the poor the money to have "Cadillac" healthcare so they can be seen as quickly as those who can afford it?  Do you hear doctors excited to accept more patients with medicare and Medicaid?  If it's going to be so great why wouldn't the liberals in congress go on it too when the conservatives wanted to make it part of the bill?   Remember, they made themselves exempt from the bill.  Why?

I assume you are on, or soon will be on, medicare/medicaid. THAT is a single payor system just like Canada's. Are you "waiting"?

That tripe is so full of "myths" it isn't funny.


The Myths of Canada's Healthcare

Canadians are flocking to the US for care:

The most comprehensive study I've seen on this topic — it employed three different methodologies, all with solid rationales behind them — was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.
The authors of the study started by surveying 136 ambulatory care facilities near the U.S.-Canada border in Michigan, New York and Washington. It makes sense that Canadians crossing the border for care would favor places close by, right? It turns out, however, that about 80 percent of such facilities saw, on average, fewer than one Canadian per month; about 40 percent had seen none in the preceding year.
Then, the researchers looked at how many Canadians were discharged over a five-year period from acute-care hospitals in the same three states. They found that more than 80 percent of these hospital visits were for emergency or urgent care (that is, tourists who had to go to the emergency room). Only about 20 percent of the visits were for elective procedures or care.
Next, the authors of the study surveyed America's 20 "best" hospitals — as identified by U.S. News & World Report — on the assumption that if Canadians were going to travel for health care, they would be more likely to go to the best-known and highest-quality facilities. Only one of the 11 hospitals that responded saw more than 60 Canadians in a year. And, again, that included both emergencies and elective care.
Finally, the study's authors examined data from the 18,000 Canadians who participated in the National Population Health Survey. In the previous year, 90 of those 18,000 Canadians had received care in the United States; only 20 of them, however, reported going to the United States expressively for the purpose of obtaining care.

Doctors are coming to the US from Canada

The Canadian Institute for Health Information has been tracking doctors' destinations since 1992. Since then, 60 percent to 70 percent of the physicians who emigrate have headed south of the border. In the mid-1990s, the number of Canadian doctors leaving for the United States spiked at about 400 to 500 a year. But in recent years this number has declined, with only 169 physicians leaving for the States in 2003, 138 in 2004 and 122 both in 2005 and 2006. These numbers represent less than 0.5 percent of all doctors working in Canada.
So when emigration "spiked," 400 to 500 doctors were leaving Canada for the United States. There are more than 800,000 physicians in the United States right now, so I'm skeptical that every doctor knows one of those émigrés. But look closely at the tan line in the following chart, which represents the net loss of doctors to Canada.

In 2004, net emigration became net immigration. Let me say that again. More doctors were moving into Canada than were moving out.

Canada rations health care; that's why hip replacements and cataract surgeries happen faster in the United States.

When people want to demonize Canada's health care system — and other single-payer systems, for that matter — they always end up going after rationing, and often hip replacements in particular.
Take Republican Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri, for example. A couple of years ago he took to the House floor to tell his colleagues:
"I just hit 62, and I was just reading that in Canada [if] I got a bad hip I wouldn't be able to get that hip replacement that [Rep. Dan Lungren] got, because I'm too old! I'm an old geezer now and it's not worth a government bureaucrat to pay me to get my hip fixed."
Sigh.
This has been debunked so often, it's tiring. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch, for example, concluded: "At least 63 percent of hip replacements performed in Canada last year [2008] ... were on patients age 65 or older." And more than 1,500 of those, it turned out, were on patients over 85.
The bottom line: Canada doesn't deny hip replacements to older people.
But there's more.
Know who gets most of the hip replacements in the United States? Older people.
Know who pays for care for older people in the United States? Medicare.
Know what Medicare is? A single-payer system.

Canada has long wait times because it has a single-payer system.

The wait times that Canada might experience are not caused by its being a single-payer system.
Wait times aren't like cancer. We know what causes wait times; we know how to fix them. Spend more money.
Our single-payer system, which is called Medicare (see above), manages not to have the "wait times" issue that Canada's does. There must, therefore, be some other reason for the wait times. There is, of course. It's this:

In 1966, Canada implemented a single-payer health care system, which is also known as Medicare. Since then, as a country, Canadians have made a conscious decision to hold down costs. One of the ways they do that is by limiting supply, mostly for elective things, which can create wait times. Their outcomes are otherwise comparable to ours.
Please understand, the wait times could be overcome. Canadians could spend more. They don't want to. We can choose to dislike wait times in principle, but they are a byproduct of Canada's choice to be fiscally conservative.
Yes, they chose this. In a rational world, those who are concerned about health care costs and what they mean to the economy might respect that course of action. But instead, they attack the system.

Canada rations health care; the United States doesn't.

This one's a little bit tricky. The truth is, Canada may "ration" by making people wait for some things, but here in the United States we also "ration" — by cost.
An 11-country survey carried out in 2010 by the Commonwealth Fund, a Washington-based health policy foundation, found that adults in the United States are by far the most likely to go without care because of cost. In fact, 42 percent of the Americans surveyed did not express confidence that they would be able to afford health care if seriously ill.

Further, about a third of the Americans surveyed reported that, in the preceding year, they didn't go to the doctor when sick, didn't get recommended care when needed, didn't fill a prescription or skipped doses of medications because of cost.
Finally, about one in five of the Americans surveyed had struggled to pay or were unable to pay their medical bills in the preceding year. That was more than twice the percentage found in any of the other 10 countries.
And remember: We're spending way more on health care than any other country, and for all that money we're getting at best middling results.
So feel free to have a discussion about the relative merits of the U.S. and Canadian health care systems. Just stick to the facts.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.3.html

[me]

Go ahead and believe everything you see in print if you want I prefer the actual straight from the horses mouth real life experiences to go with. 

[Palehorse]

Go ahead and believe everything you see in print if you want I prefer the actual straight from the horses mouth real life experiences to go with.

Like Faux News, feel free to make things up as you go along. 

[me]

Like Faux News, feel free to make things up as you go along. 

And you're saying that they can't/don't just print what they want you to believe?  Give me a break just because it's in print doesn't make it so.  Yes, some in Canada who have known nothing else may like what they have but those who have experienced both know better.  My niece-in-law thought Canada's health care was good too until she lived here for a couple of years and experienced the difference and now knows better.  Hell, her sister who is a nurse at one of the hospitals in Canada even knows better. 

[The Troll]

Is that going to make the wait time any shorter when you try to see a doctor?  Is that going to give the poor the money to have "Cadillac" healthcare so they can be seen as quickly as those who can afford it?  Do you hear doctors excited to accept more patients with medicare and Medicaid?  If it's going to be so great why wouldn't the liberals in congress go on it too when the conservatives wanted to make it part of the bill?   Remember, they made themselves exempt from the bill.  Why?

  If you're really sick and need to see a doctor.  Go to emergency, just like you can do now.  Just like my family doctor told me.  If you feel really bad and you need to see right now.  Don't waste your time, go to emergency.  Because I would probably not be able to handle it here in my office.  Think, Think, Think my little Punkin.    THINK! 

[me]

  If you're really sick and need to see a doctor.  Go to emergency, just like you can do now.  Just like my family doctor told me.  If you feel really bad and you need to see right now.  Don't waste your time, go to emergency.  Because I would probably not be able to handle it here in my office.  Think, Think, Think my little Punkin.    THINK! 

Yes, that works out great but if you need an emergency operation then what?  Is that operation going to be covered or ok'ed?  Remember a lot of procedures are going to have to be ok'ed before they can be done.  Will you have a choice of surgeons? 

[Anne]

I've read that there is a shortage of doctors, esp. family physicians. I know when we had to find a new doctor two years ago, I called St. John's to see who was taking new patients. The first thing they wanted to know was if we were on Medicare because some doctors were not taking Medicare patients. I was told most tried to keep their Medicare patients to 10 percent of their practice. We found a doctor without any trouble but if they continue cutting medicare payments I wonder if more doctors will refuse Medicare patients? We haven't had long waits to see any kind of doctors so far.

[The Troll]

Yes, that works out great but if you need an emergency operation then what?  Is that operation going to be covered or ok'ed?  Remember a lot of procedures are going to have to be ok'ed before they can be done.  Will you have a choice of surgeons?

  If you have to have an emergency operation,  you won't even leave the hospital.  They will operate on you immediately.  Just like a couple of months ago, I broke a rib and went in for an X-ray.  They found the broken rib and they also found pneumonia.  I didn't leave the hospital, they put me in a bed and dump a whole lot of antibiotics in me and I was there for two and a half days.

  Cut the bullshit    You sound like you not only fell off your rocker, damn you also broke the rocker, my little red headed chickadee.  :kiss;

[Exterminator]

That tripe is so full of "myths" it isn't funny.

Even when given facts to the contrary, she chooses to cling to anecdote and hearsay.  But, of course, it couldn't be because Obama is black, it's all about his policies.  My ass.

[me]

  If you have to have an emergency operation,  you won't even leave the hospital.  They will operate on you immediately.  Just like a couple of months ago, I broke a rib and went in for an X-ray.  They found the broken rib and they also found pneumonia.  I didn't leave the hospital, they put me in a bed and dump a whole lot of antibiotics in me and I was there for two and a half days.

  Cut the bullshit    You sound like you not only fell off your rocker, damn you also broke the rocker, my little red headed chickadee.  :kiss;

That's now what about later AFTER the full healthcare thing kicks in?