Stimulus Bill Broke 7 Obama Promises (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-no-more-secrecy-about-bills)....
7 Broken Promises in Record Time
1. Make government open and transparent.
2. Make it "impossible" for Congressmen to slip in pork barrel projects.
3. Meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public. (Even Congressional Republicans shut out.)
4. No more secrecy.
5. Public will have 5 days to look at a bill.
6. You'll know what's in it.
7. We will put every pork barrel project online.
Funny, but not one of Mr. Obama's promises were met with the most expensive spending bill in our nation's history
Obama breaks five-day pledge (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18441.html)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2009, 08:23:44 AM
Stimulus Bill Broke 7 Obama Promises (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-no-more-secrecy-about-bills)....
7 Broken Promises in Record Time
1. Make government open and transparent.
2. Make it "impossible" for Congressmen to slip in pork barrel projects.
3. Meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public. (Even Congressional Republicans shut out.)
4. No more secrecy.
5. Public will have 5 days to look at a bill.
6. You'll know what's in it.
7. We will put every pork barrel project online.
Funny, but not one of Mr. Obama's promises were met with the most expensive spending bill in our nation's history
Obama breaks five-day pledge (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18441.html)
Funny how we aren't even willing to let the first 100 days go by before declaring him a failure.
Funny how those who plead for patience with the previous administration's decisions somehow can find none for the current administration.
Funny how almost everything on that list will require an extended effort and time window to achieve, but some expect it to have been accomplished in less than 30 days. . . :rolleyes:
funny, how I simply pointed out 7 LIES, and they are outright lies, and we need to give him a 100 days?........for what?
I have no choice, but to give him 4-years...and I honestly hope he makes this a better place for everyone to live.....but MY personal ideology totally disagrees with HIS...so, HE needs to win ME over, IF he wants me to get all excited about things to come.
I did NOT make ANYTHING up here....there are 7 blatant lies, that HE campaigned on....and he LIED.
period.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2009, 08:55:35 AM
funny, how I simply pointed out 7 LIES, and they are outright lies, and we need to give him a 100 days?........for what?
I have no choice, but to give him 4-years...and I honestly hope he makes this a better place for everyone to live.....but MY personal ideology totally disagrees with HIS...so, HE needs to win ME over, IF he wants me to get all excited about things to come.
I did NOT make ANYTHING up here....there are 7 blatant lies, that HE campaigned on....and he LIED.
period.
Where's the "blind faith" you extended to the "Chimp"? Where's the respect for the position? Where's the trust?
1. That faith went out the window when your party left office didn't it?
2. That respect for the position was nothing more than political propaganda, which also left with the party.
3. Trust has to be earned, but an openness to change and a willingness to patiently await resultsmust be extended as well.
Could you pack up everything you own, take care of your outstanding responsibilities, and move your household to another state inside of 30 days with no problems? I doubt it. I doubt anyone outside of the military could do so.
Yet. . . you are willing to trash the POTUS for "failing" to uphold campaign promises that are going to take months, (if not years), to achieve because they are not implemented within 30 days of taking office? Thats unacceptable Hank.
You start a new job they typically give you 90 days to demonstrate proficiency in the attributes and skills necessary to be successful in the position. We aren't even giving the POTUS 30 days? Why?
Why are we so critical of someone who is acting in an urgent manner to improve something that in his/her best judgment is vital to the future of this nation? Especially when that person is the POTUS?
We trusted the POTUS to send our men and women to the litterbox, based upon "his" judgment didn't we? And that is also costing trillions!
In the current POTUS's judgment the current economic situation is just as dire as that which triggered the deployment of our men and women in the military. Perhaps even more so, because for all we know the future of this very country may be hanging in the balance! (he has all but said so).
Yet, some of us want to lambaste him for not rewriting the procedures and protocols for legislation within 30 days of taking office? That isn't even anywhere in the neighborhood of reasonable in my opinion. . .
PH.....he lied!! period.
and I am simply pointing that out....these are not little white lies.....they are OUTRIGHT lies....
PH, I respect the position....but THAT position as it now seems, can NOT go 30 days without 'duping' the American TRUST.
THIS stimulus bill has not even given me a chance to 'trust' him.....I 100% disagree with the way it was handled......from his fearmongering....to the massive PORK attachements.
The fact that they spent OVER a TRILLION dollars, and expected everyone to have the...BLIND TRUST... as you put it.. :rolleyes:
PH, I have nothing but REAL admiration and respect for you and MOST of your opinions....
BUT, I am NOT going to sit back, and get ALL excited about MORE of what just happened (stimulus bill)
I, from the bottom of my heart, HOPE that THIS stimulus bill is successfull....for my families sake and for the sake of this Nation....
I will most certainly LAMBASTE HIM, when I think HE is doing something wrong....It certainly did not stop the liberals for lambasting Mr. Bush, when they though HE did something wrong....
If things begin to turn out 'fantastic' as the left seem to claim...I will be the FIRST to salute this POTUS....
btw....there is NOTHING...I SAY NOTHING unreasonable in my opinion....for NOT agreeing with this last bill that was passed, .... it was WRONG.....if he would have given Americans TIME to look it over and IF he would have taken out 'some' of the pork....
look, he knew damn well HE was going to pass this bill..........He could have at least, lived up to HIS promises.....again I say 'HIS PROMISES'...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2009, 09:23:52 AM
PH.....he lied!! period.
and I am simply pointing that out....these are not little white lies.....they are OUTRIGHT lies....
PH, I respect the position....but THAT position as it now seems, can NOT go 30 days without 'duping' the American TRUST.
THIS stimulus bill has not even given me a chance to 'trust' him.....I 100% disagree with the way it was handled......from his fearmongering....to the massive PORK attachments.
The fact that they spent OVER a TRILLION dollars, and expected everyone to have the...BLIND TRUST... as you put it.. :rolleyes:
PH, I have nothing but REAL admiration and respect for you and MOST of your opinions....
BUT, I am NOT going to sit back, and get ALL excited about MORE of what just happened (stimulus bill)
I, from the bottom of my heart, HOPE that THIS stimulus bill is successfull....for my families sake and for the sake of this Nation....
I will most certainly LAMBASTE HIM, when I think HE is doing something wrong....It certainly did not stop the liberals for lambasting Mr. Bush, when they though HE did something wrong....
If things begin to turn out 'fantastic' as the left seem to claim...I will be the FIRST to salute this POTUS....
BTW....there is NOTHING...I SAY NOTHING unreasonable in my opinion....for NOT agreeing with this last bill that was passed, .... it was WRONG.....if he would have given Americans TIME to look it over and IF he would have taken out 'some' of the pork....
look, he knew damn well HE was going to pass this bill..........He could have at least, lived up to HIS promises.....again I say 'HIS PROMISES'...
You are blaming the POTUS for actions undertaken by
congress first of all, and that is unreasonable. While he could adopt the dictatorial position you seem to desire here, all it would do is render him lame moving forward, and further restrict his ability to positively impact our future. Additionally, his doing so would certainly create legions of critics; especially when such an action would follow so closely on the heels of the previous administrations trampling of the US Constitution. (In the perspective of many).
Changing any governmental protocol or procedure will require (litterally) and "act of congress" to implement. Now, you've seen what they've done to the stimulus package; can you imagine what they are going to do to a bill sent through to change the way they do business?
The current POTUS tried to get the outgong POTUS to get things moving on a stimulus package, and stated that it would be his first order of business upon taking office. He never said, "right after I uphold all or some portion of my campaign promises". Yet, you act as if he did make such a statement. And, let's not forget the fact he didn't wait until he was sworn in to begin work on the stimulus package; he started right away in bringing together the best individuals possible to try to reach a solution that made sense.
To expect any individual within the position of POTUS to enact such broadsweeping changes within 30 days of taking office
is unreasonable! It has taken them (congress) almost 30 days to "pass" a bill that in the eyes of many high level and well educated individuals is imperative to the future of this country. I submit it will take them in excess of 30
months to pass legislation to change the protocols for submission and passage of a bill, or emergency legislation.
We extended "blind trust" to the previous POTUS when he acted on our behalf to place our men and women into harm's way and spent trillions in the process; not to mention the price paid by thousands of families in the form of the ultimate sacrifice made by those men and women. (In the opinion of some we got burned big time by this one).
Will you back the current POTUS when he makes an announcement to increase personnel and actions within the Afghanistan theatre of operations later today/this week? (More trillions to be sure).
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2009, 09:45:20 AM
You are blaming the POTUS for actions undertaken by congress first of all, and that is unreasonable. While he could adopt the dictatorial position you seem to desire here, all it would do is render him lame moving forward, and further restrict his ability to positively impact our future. Additionally, his doing so would certainly create legions of critics; especially when such an action would follow so closely on the heels of the previous administrations trampling of the US Constitution. (In the perspective of many).
Let me state, first AND foremost, I am blaming CONGRESS more so, than the POTUS....but, HE is the Leader, and could have lived up to one of his promises....and tell them to "knock out the pork and give me a bill that Americans CAN be proud of"....he did not.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2009, 09:45:20 AM
Changing any governmental protocol or procedure will require (litterally) and "act of congress" to implement. Now, you've seen what they've done to the stimulus package; can you imagine what they are going to do to a bill sent through to change the way they do business?
It does not take legislation to tell congress to NOT put in ANY pork....it does NOT take legislation to tell give the public at least five days to look at the bill...it does NOT take legislation to not have a secret meetings on a bill...
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2009, 09:45:20 AM
The current POTUS tried to get the outgong POTUS to get things moving on a stimulus package, and stated that it would be his first order of business upon taking office. He never said, "right after I uphold all or some portion of my campaign promises". Yet, you act as if he did make such a statement. And, let's not forget the fact he didn't wait until he was sworn in to begin work on the stimulus package; he started right away in bringing together the best individuals possible to try to reach a solution that made sense.
The ONLY thing I am stating is .... he campaigned on the mentioned items....and he broke them right off the bat...his very first and most important bill.....and he broke HIS very own promises.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2009, 09:45:20 AM
To expect any individual within the position of POTUS to enact such broadsweeping changes within 30 days of taking office is unreasonable! It has taken them (congress) almost 30 days to "pass" a bill that in the eyes of many high level and well educated individuals is imperative to the future of this country. I submit it will take them in excess of 30 months to pass legislation to change the protocols for submission and passage of a bill, or emergency legislation.
again the only thing that I am expecting out of him is to honor a few basic promises...that is it!
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2009, 09:45:20 AM
We extended "blind trust" to the previous POTUS when he acted on our behalf to place our men and women into harm's way and spent trillions in the process; not to mention the price paid by thousands of families in the form of the ultimate sacrifice made by those men and women. (In the opinion of some we got burned big time by this one).
Will you back the curent POTUS when he makes an announcement to increase personnel and actions within the Aphghanistan theatre of operations later today/this week? (More trillions to be sure).
I am fully expecting him to do so....well, at least that is something he said he was going to do....maybe I better wait and see WHAT he is going to do...
btw....my son is part of the increased personnel that is heading to Afghanistan,...I hope and pray, that he will listen and act according to the Generals in charge of the safety of these outstanding men and women.
Well, clearly I'm not changing your perspective anytime soon on this, and I lack sufficient time to formulate a response to your last posting in any case.
Bottom line for me in this is I feel the critics of this need to zip it for awhile and let the man have some time to do his job before lambasting him. . .
But that's just me, your results may (and probably will) vary. . .
(Sorry for the misspelling in my quoted previous posting. Hank quoted before I had time to run spell check, so I'll forego posting anything further until such time as I can properly devote sufficient time to spelling prior to posting).
just want to bump this to the top of the page for those who are just joining in.... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2009, 08:23:44 AM
Stimulus Bill Broke 7 Obama Promises (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-no-more-secrecy-about-bills)....
7 Broken Promises in Record Time
1. Make government open and transparent.
2. Make it "impossible" for Congressmen to slip in pork barrel projects.
3. Meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public. (Even Congressional Republicans shut out.)
4. No more secrecy.
5. Public will have 5 days to look at a bill.
6. You'll know what's in it.
7. We will put every pork barrel project online.
Funny, but not one of Mr. Obama's promises were met with the most expensive spending bill in our nation's history
Obama breaks five-day pledge (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18441.html)
Quote from: Palehorse on February 17, 2009, 09:45:20 AM
You are blaming the POTUS for actions undertaken by congress first of all, and that is unreasonable. While he could adopt the dictatorial position you seem to desire here, all it would do is render him lame moving forward, and further restrict his ability to positively impact our future. Additionally, his doing so would certainly create legions of critics; especially when such an action would follow so closely on the heels of the previous administrations trampling of the US Constitution. (In the perspective of many). ...
He has the power to veto the bill. He could do so and call a press conference lambasting the pork in it and chiding the House and Senate to produce a pork-free bill that he will sign. President Bush didn't write the CFR bill, but he is the one who signed it into law, knowing full well that it undermined the First Amendment. I blame them all for that one, actually, including the Supreme Court who failed to overturn it.
It's part and parcel of the three branches having oversight of each other. Mr. Obama should have vetoed the bill.
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on February 17, 2009, 04:04:36 PM
He has the power to veto the bill. He could do so and call a press conference lambasting the pork in it and chiding the House and Senate to produce a pork-free bill that he will sign. President Bush didn't write the CFR bill, but he is the one who signed it into law, knowing full well that it undermined the First Amendment. I blame them all for that one, actually, including the Supreme Court who failed to overturn it.
It's part and parcel of the three branches having oversight of each other. Mr. Obama should have vetoed the bill.
especially when he PROMISED to no longer allow porkful spending....
I guess this is where a line-item veto would come in handy. "Course the POTUS would normally use that to boost his own party's interests, and steamroll those of the opposition, wouldn't he? And the Hell with ALL of us! :icon_evil:
How hard could it be to post the bill on line? Surely it was produced on a computer and somewhere in Washington there is a computer person talented enough to post it on the internet so all could read it, even if it was done after it was passed and sent to the President to sign. I wonder if it will ever be made available to the public with a reasonable way to obtain a copy of the stimulus bill.
Quote from: Anne on February 17, 2009, 04:32:54 PM
How hard could it be to post the bill on line? Surely it was produced on a computer and somewhere in Washington there is a computer person talented enough to post it on the internet so all could read it, even if it was done after it was passed and sent to the President to sign. I wonder if it will ever be made available to the public with a reasonable way to obtain a copy of the stimulus bill.
It's up there. And no ... I won't spoon feed it to you.
Maybe Fox or Rush will point you to it.
Rather lengthy but you can get some sort of an idea from this. And Bo D it didn't come from and email, Fox, or Rush. :razz:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2009, 09:23:52 AM
PH.....he lied!! period.
Bush was the biggest liar, ever, and the worst (well, 6 from the bottom anyway) and now you're worried about "the lies". The bill is online, ah.
Damn!! Remind me not to say I'm going to lose 20 lbs on here! If I don't do that by next week, I'll be a liar!! I'll just keep that to myself! :biggrin:
Gee Henry isn't it different how they are reacting now to things?
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 07:50:07 AM
Gee Henry isn't it different how they are reacting now to things?
Yup, sure is! :rolleyes:
This thread illustrates the biggest problem in a representative democracy like ours...the ignorant and uneducated sheep who are told what to think by the Rush Limbaughs of the world are allowed to vote. It's a freakin' travesty. :no:
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 08:44:12 AM
This thread illustrates the biggest problem in a representative democracy like ours...the ignorant and uneducated sheep who are told what to think by the Rush Limbaughs of the world are allowed to vote. It's a freakin' travesty. :no:
Obviously you can't read Ex.....
I DO NOT WATCH OR LISTEN TO RUSH LIMBAUGH
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 08:47:51 AM
Obviously you can't read Ex.....I DO NOT WATCH OR LISTEN TO RUSH LIMBAUGH
I said the likes of Rush Limbaugh; learn to read. Obviously someone is telling you what to think because your opinion is clearly based on neither knowledge, logic nor reality.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 08:44:12 AM
This thread illustrates the biggest problem in a representative democracy like ours...the ignorant and uneducated sheep who are told what to think by the Rush Limbaughs of the world are allowed to vote. It's a freakin' travesty. :no:
No, what the travesty IS....is people like yourself, who truly do not understand what ...The Constitution was designed for...or what 'freedom' really means....and trashes the name of God, which this country
was built around...you, my friend are a prime candidate as a "VICTIM" of the sheep, who are blindly following, those who have NO intentions of doing what is best for America, but rather what is BEST for THEIR party, in order to maintain power, through any means of corruption, driven by pure GREED....and THAT is as clear as clear can be.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 08:53:18 AM
I said the likes of Rush Limbaugh; learn to read. Obviously someone is telling you what to think because your opinion is clearly based on neither knowledge, logic nor reality.
Here Ex go wrap your brain around this:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2009, 08:59:41 AM
No, what the travesty IS....is people like yourself, who truly do not understand what ...The Constitution was designed for...or what 'freedom' really means....and trashes the name of God, which this country was built around...
LMAO! I love it when people who have no formal education in the Constitution beyond a social studies class in high school try to explain it to those of us who do...especially when they try to tell us it was founded on an invisible man in the sky!
Quote...you, my friend are a prime candidate as a "VICTIM" of the sheep, who are blindly following, those who have NO intentions of doing what is best for America, but rather what is BEST for THEIR party, in order to maintain power, through any means of corruption, driven by pure GREED....and THAT is as clear as clear can be.
I think you're confusing this administration with the last one in whose ass your nose is still so firmly implanted.
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 09:04:34 AM
Here Ex go wrap your brain around this:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf
When I want to read legislation, I do so on the Library of Congress website. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1:)
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 09:20:23 AM
When I want to read legislation, I do so on the Library of Congress website. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1:)
Click the link Mr. Knowitall.....
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 09:23:11 AM
Click the link Mr. Knowitall.....
The link takes you to a very slow website that has the same text from the bill as has been on the Library of Congress' website since the bill's inception. What it does
not contain, little miss can't be wrong, are links to other bills that are associated with this legislation. Do you think it's better to get your information second-hand than from the original source? That's a rhetorical question...I already know the answer. :rolleyes:
Gee that's odd I thought it was a pdf print out of the bill on arobat reader. Scroll Ex scroll. Here try this link: This http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:SP00098:
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 09:43:49 AM
The link takes you to a very slow website that has the same text from the bill as has been on the Library of Congress' website since the bill's inception. What it does not contain, little miss can't be wrong, are links to other bills that are associated with this legislation. Do you think it's better to get your information second-hand than from the original source? That's a rhetorical question...I already know the answer. :rolleyes:
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 09:49:40 AM
Gee that's odd I thought it was a pdf print out of the bill on arobat reader. Scroll Ex scroll. Here try this link: This http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:SP00098:
Again (for the thick-headed), there are a lot of other bills associated with this; have you read tham all and what in your life experience has prepared you to actually understand such complex legislation?
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 10:24:19 AM
Again (for the thick-headed), there are a lot of other bills associated with this; have you read tham all and what in your life experience has prepared you to actually understand such complex legislation?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:SP00098:
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 10:29:53 AM
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:SP00098:
Oh, good for you; you found one of many! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 10:33:55 AM
Oh, good for you; you found one of many! :rolleyes:
And I suppose you're going to tell me that you've read and understand all of them, I assume you clicked the link and noticed there were several in there.
Ex is right about the availability of information on the library of Congress website since the bill's incepton...wasn't that on or about 1/26? Plenty of time for the American people to read it as it developed, if they so chose to. Seems that kicks the broken promises *cough* theory right in the pants. As for the pork...how exactly do any of you naysayers think the economy is going to become stimulated if someone isn't a recipient of the stimulus? Bush tried handing it to the people and it didn't work.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 09:14:54 AM
LMAO! I love it when people who have no formal education in the Constitution beyond a social studies class in high school try to explain it to those of us who do...especially when they try to tell us it was founded on an invisible man in the sky!
It does not take a scholar to understand the Constitution, pal. It is extremely clear on it's intent, and how it is being violated over the course of years.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 18, 2009, 09:14:54 AM
I think you're confusing this administration with the last one in whose ass your nose is still so firmly implanted.
Time WILL tell the whole story...that is if you can take those blinders off, long enough to actually see... ;)
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on February 18, 2009, 11:02:38 AM
Ex is right about the availability of information on the library of Congress website since the bill's incepton...wasn't that on or about 1/26? Plenty of time for the American people to read it as it developed, if they so chose to. Seems that kicks the broken promises *cough* theory right in the pants. As for the pork...how exactly do any of you naysayers think the economy is going to become stimulated if someone isn't a recipient of the stimulus? Bush tried handing it to the people and it didn't work.
the package was being modified up until 2/7.....and as far as the broken promises theories...he has BROKEN them...HE is the one who made the claims of NO PORK and giving Americans amble time to review bills that are to be voted on....
HE LIED......period.
2/7 until it was signed yesterday that's more than 5 days on my calendar and even more if you count weekends and holidays. It was available the entire process, for the whole world to see, so no promise broken. As for pork, exactly how do you think the economy will be stimulated without beneficiaries?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on February 18, 2009, 11:39:08 AM
2/7 until it was signed yesterday that's more than 5 days on my calendar and even more if you count weekends and holidays. It was available the entire process, for the whole world to see, so no promise broken. As for pork, exactly how do you think the economy will be stimulated without beneficiaries?
How is it, stimulating our economy, when we are spending 360 million on a Frisbee golf course?...that is just one of many, ridicules and shamefull attachments.
and it is supposed to be linked to the White House, easily accessable for everyone...according to Mr BHO.
and again.....HE is the one who said.."no more pork"....his words not mine....and yet there was a bill .... LOADED....with pork.
Don't forget about the money that was in it to protect a marsh mouse from extinction.
It's just too bad he didn't go ahead and veto this thing, and let the economy just sink further down the tubes; while we waited for a pork-free, totally agreed upon, reviewed and signed off version of a utopian bill designed to make the whole thing go away, and totally meet everyone's expectations and approval.
:rolleyes:
Flaming monkies will fly from my ass before that will happen, and before the twins here approve of anything the current POTUS ever does. 4 years of whining. . . :rolleyes:
Oh my PH that makes me never want that to happen, for your sake. ;D me and Henry, do you have a link to those provisions? Let's discuss them?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on February 18, 2009, 01:05:12 PM
Oh my PH that makes me never want that to happen, for your sake. ;D me and Henry, do you have a link to those provisions? Let's discuss them?
I hope the POTUS veto's each and every bill that comes through congress and back to his desk with any pork in it what so ever. I hope he line item veto's every piece of pork, every time it appears. I'll giggle like a school girl when congress becomes gridlocked in power trips and special interest initiatives, as they begin to consume one another and nothing what so ever gets passed for well over 36 months.
And I'll gleefully watch the peanut gallery from the friendly confines of my old corrugated box, as they dance their victory dane when the entire government and this nation collapses; whilst sharing a toast of globally warmed rain water collected from the tarp covering my corrugate mansion, with my spouse in her adjoinging wing.
Burn you little rock throwers, burn! :rolleyes:
I believe you guys must want the entire congress to become muslim. . . It must be that because you don't want any pork! :razz:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 12:55:08 PM
It's just too bad he didn't go ahead and veto this thing, and let the economy just sink further down the tubes; while we waited for a pork-free, totally agreed upon, reviewed and signed off version of a utopian bill designed to make the whole thing go away, and totally meet everyone's expectations and approval.
:rolleyes:
Flaming monkies will fly from my ass before that will happen, and before the twins here approve of anything the current POTUS ever does. 4 years of whining. . . :rolleyes:
your darn RIGHT it's too bad we did NOT veto this BILL....we cannot spend our way out of debt.....that is a basic fundamental rule.....and it is the 'debt' that is the REAL problem here....and GOVERNMENT controlling of what we do, goes against our Constituion....this Bill, did NOT have to be done today.....we did NOT get in this mess in one day and it is going to take TIME to get out of it.....
I did not get bailed out of my mess....I had to work hard and pay it back....I have done without....and I STILL am, to assure that I don't EVER get in a mess again....MAYBE THAT is what HAVES to happen to America, in order to knock the dust off of our chaps and get back on our feet....
the bottom line IS....the democrats ARE in control now, and they are going to shove every piece of legislation into an enormous bill, and tell americans that IF it don't happen now, we will NEVER recover.....this is not the HOPE & CHANGE that MOST americans voted on......
funny, I just heard BHO say on the radio....."Americans need to learn how to live within their means and be accountable for their actions".........THAT IS NOT LEADERSHIP.....THAT IS THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.... :rant:
time will tell us the answer......
This is an issue, I am not going to sit back and quietly take it in without expressing MY concerns for this country.
I'll be back later. I've got to go borrow and spend myself out of debt. :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 01:20:29 PM
I hope the POTUS veto's each and every bill that comes through congress and back to his desk with any pork in it what so ever. I hope he line item veto's every piece of pork, every time it appears. I'll giggle like a school girl when congress becomes gridlocked in power trips and special interest initiatives, as they begin to consume one another and nothing what so ever gets passed for well over 36 months.
At first I thought you had gone back on your meds, PH. I didn't realize until the end that you were being sarcastic.
I thought "...POTUS veto's each and every bill that comes through congress and back to his desk with any pork in it what so ever. I hope he line item veto's every piece of pork, every time it appears. I'll giggle like a school girl when congress becomes gridlocked in power trips and special interest initiatives, as they begin to consume one another and nothing what so ever gets passed for well over 36 months..." was an excellent idea. It would certainly expose congresscritters for what they are and show the American people what they have allowed their selfish interests to do to damage our form of Gov't. Who knows? Real, genuine Statesmen could arise and be elected. People with an eye on the Constitution and a will to hold the power of the Gov't to it's limitations so the real engines of prosperity and job-creation could roar to life once more!
From the way you are talking, one could deduce that you wouldn't mind if legislation were just drafted and signed into law with no debate whatsoever.
I wonder....if this stimulus bill contained provisions for YOUR money to be taxed at an 80% rate, denied YOU any Gov't assistance, and gave YOUR possessions to the wealthiest man in town, and jailed anyone with YOUR skin color, would you THEN think, perhaps, that we should have taken the time to examine the bill with a more critical eye?
What's that? It doesn't contain those things?
Are you SURE?
Have you read it?
No? Neither have most of the representatives who voted for it.
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on February 18, 2009, 01:53:21 PM
At first I thought you had gone back on your meds, PH. I didn't realize until the end that you were being sarcastic.
I thought "...POTUS veto's each and every bill that comes through congress and back to his desk with any pork in it what so ever. I hope he line item veto's every piece of pork, every time it appears. I'll giggle like a school girl when congress becomes gridlocked in power trips and special interest initiatives, as they begin to consume one another and nothing what so ever gets passed for well over 36 months..." was an excellent idea. It would certainly expose congresscritters for what they are and show the American people what they have allowed their selfish interests to do to damage our form of Gov't. Who knows? Real, genuine Statesmen could arise and be elected. People with an eye on the Constitution and a will to hold the power of the Gov't to it's limitations so the real engines of prosperity and job-creation could roar to life once more!
From the way you are talking, one could deduce that you wouldn't mind if legislation were just drafted and signed into law with no debate whatsoever.
I wonder....if this stimulus bill contained provisions for YOUR money to be taxed at an 80% rate, denied YOU any Gov't assistance, and gave YOUR possessions to the wealthiest man in town, and jailed anyone with YOUR skin color, would you THEN think, perhaps, that we should have taken the time to examine the bill with a more critical eye?
What's that? It doesn't contain those things?
Are you SURE?
Have you read it?
No? Neither have most of the representatives who voted for it.
Certainly my perspective (as posted) and the one you posted are both extremes; much like the extremist approach taken on by the rock throwers herein. Each of them are beyond reasonable expectation.
I was only half-sarcastic though surrounding my hope that the POTUS starts using the red pen and vetoing the pork bills. If that's what they want then give it to them and let's all get in touch with our ancestors. I just wonder how long before the rock throwers will begin squealing anew about the governmental lack of concern for basic human needs once it shuts down. . .
Hey corrugate box or traditional housing; I'll live either way. It won't be pretty though. . .
(BTW. . .Yes, I've read as much of it as my personal time has allowed. . . So much for your assumptions.)
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 02:27:17 PM
Certainly my perspective (as posted) and the one you posted are both extremes; much like the extremist approach taken on by the rock throwers herein. Each of them are beyond reasonable expectation.
I was only half-sarcastic though surrounding my hope that the POTUS starts using the red pen and vetoing the pork bills. If that's what they want then give it to them and let's all get in touch with our ancestors. I just wonder how long before the rock throwers will begin squealing anew about the governmental lack of concern for basic human needs once it shuts down. . .
Hey corrugate box or traditional housing; I'll live either way. It won't be pretty though. . .
(BTW. . .Yes, I've read as much of it as my personal time has allowed. . . So much for your assumptions.)
I'm only throwing sand at Obama I'm savin' the boulders for Congress which is where ya'll should have been throwin' most of the ones you threw for the last 2 and most of the last 8 yrs.
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 02:31:04 PM
I'm only throwing sand at Obama I'm savin' the boulders for Congress which is where ya'll should have been throwin' most of the ones you threw for the last 2 and most of the last 8 yrs.
I'm an equal oportunity boulder chunker; if you deserve it I'll chunk a few your way. Had you been posting with me over the past 8 years you would know that about me. When the chimp first took office I was behind him. When 9/11 happened and we went to war I was behind that choice as well. Somewhere along the way the "reality" became blatant lies and abuse of power and I did a 180; as it is my choice to do, and as I will do once again if the current POTUS proves it is necessary. Until then he has my support.
I've never trusted congress to do what was right anymore than I've trusted any POTUS to do the same. They all lie, they all cheat, they all will rob us blind if we let them. They cannot help it for it is within the genetics of humankind to do so; our basic need to accumulate personal power and wealth.
Any one of us would eventually revert to the very same behaviors if we were to assume similar roles. . . On that you can rely.
I haven't even began to throw rocks yet, personally..... :no:
and I agree me, congress are the one's who are the REAL shame here, but, I am tired of the ass-kissers on here, who think, simply because the current potus is a great speaker, we should not question him whatsoever....
we just passed the largest spending Bill in American history....and normally before a voting on ANY BILL, they go through a committee in order to evaluate what is inside these complicated Bills. That was not done here.......after a Bill passes the House and then the Senate....the Bill is usually examined by Congress to hammer out the differences between the what the House passed and what the Senate passed.....this IS an unprecedented move...never before in history has such a bill passed with this broad of legislation..................and to boot.....the potus...had the Republicans locked out of these meetings regarding THIS stimulus package..............and I AM BEING CRITICIZED FOR ...THROWING ROCKS?....
all I have done was call out a few outright lies.............and have stated, where I 100% disagree....and it now seems I need to be censored or simply just 'shut-up'....and give the potus a chance...without ANY reservation? :confused:
not going to happen... :no:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 02:27:17 PM
Certainly my perspective (as posted) and the one you posted are both extremes; much like the extremist approach taken on by the rock throwers herein. Each of them are beyond reasonable expectation.
I was only half-sarcastic though surrounding my hope that the POTUS starts using the red pen and vetoing the pork bills. If that's what they want then give it to them and let's all get in touch with our ancestors. I just wonder how long before the rock throwers will begin squealing anew about the governmental lack of concern for basic human needs once it shuts down. . .
Hey corrugate box or traditional housing; I'll live either way. It won't be pretty though. . .
(BTW. . .Yes, I've read as much of it as my personal time has allowed. . . So much for your assumptions.)
Oh, sorry PH, my bad. My point wasn't whether YOU had read it, per se, but that most members of Congress and the Senate hadn't read it, let alone had time to think about the unintended consequences of the various provisions.
Your position seems to be that potentially bad, unexamined, legislation passed today is better than waiting for good legislation to be introduced or even waiting until this bill has been examined and debated. Based on what I've seen Gov't do, I'll take my chances with waiting. At least then we might have an inkling as to which direction the screwing is coming from this time, lol!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2009, 02:41:44 PM
. . .
and I agree me, congress are the one's who are the REAL shame here, but, I am tired of the ass-kissers on here, who think, simply because the current potus is a great speaker, we should not question him whatsoever....
. . .and I AM BEING CRITICIZED FOR ...THROWING ROCKS?....
all I have done was call out a few outright lies.............
My point exactly; thank you very much.
You aren't being criticized, but rather I personally am trying to point out how you are whipping the wagon for the horse's refusal to move! It accomplishes nothing.
And what you are doing is demonstrating a very high level of unreasonable adjudication of a man's abilities based upon his first 28 days in office. Tell me, if he eventually delivers on each and every item you now call him a "liar" over, will he still be a liar in your opinion? (I expect so).
Your expectations are deeply laced with sour grapes and I wonder if they would be the same had the opposing party been the victors. (I somehow doubt that). Mine on the other hand would have been. Had McCain won and taken similar measures I would still be as supportive as I have been of the current POTUS; again until he proved to be unworthy of that trust. (Just as I was of the chimp. And if you doubt that then search through my postings from the start of the Iraqi conflict. I was behind the chimp until he proved he is a chimp, then I began seriously questioning him and his administration. It is all here in this forum if you don't believe it search through my postings. But you should know of all people here Hank, because you were here!)
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 02:53:13 PM
My point exactly; thank you very much.
You aren't being criticized, but rather I personally am trying to point out how you are whipping the wagon for the horse's refusal to move! It accomplishes nothing.
And what you are doing is demonstrating a very high level of unreasonable adjudication of a man's abilities based upon his first 28 days in office. Tell me, if he eventually delivers on each and every item you now call him a "liar" over, will he still be a liar in your opinion? (I expect so).
Your expectations are deeply laced with sour grapes and I wonder if they would be the same had the opposing party been the victors. (I somehow doubt that). Mine on the other hand would have been. Had McCain won and taken similar measures I would still be as supportive as I have been of the current POTUS; again until he proved to be unworthy of that trust. (Just as I was of the chimp. And if you doubt that then search through my postings from the start of the Iraqi conflict. I was behind the chimp until he proved he is a chimp, then I began seriously questioning him and his administration. It is all here in this forum if you don't believe it search through my postings. But you should know of all people here Hank, because you were here!)
I will say one thing. I imagine at this point he has discovered that he will be just a pawn in Congress' game if he don't get a grip and take the bull by the horns. If not I hope he figures it out real soon.
Quote from: Ghost of Jaco on February 18, 2009, 02:43:19 PM
Oh, sorry PH, my bad. My point wasn't whether YOU had read it, per se, but that most members of Congress and the Senate hadn't read it, let alone had time to think about the unintended consequences of the various provisions.
Your position seems to be that potentially bad, unexamined, legislation passed today is better than waiting for good legislation to be introduced or even waiting until this bill has been examined and debated. Based on what I've seen Gov't do, I'll take my chances with waiting. At least then we might have an inkling as to which direction the screwing is coming from this time, lol!
IN part. . .but my real point is that some potentially very good and necessary things were passed, and had we awaited the Utopian results many wish for there very well may have been a lot less of our nation/economic/social class structure to save.
I very much believe there is a very large segment of people that are in denial; that fail to realize just how close to the edge this nation is, and had this measure not passed and we found ourselves under marshal law from coast-to-coast, with state, local government shut down altogether, then they very same rocks that are being chunked toward the POTUS would still be chunked toward him over it. Using his failure to pass the package due to pork as the validation for their actions. (damned if he did, damned if he didn't).
In such situations a POTUS has no choice but to pursue the path he knows to be in the best interests of the country and endure the storm. (Just as he has done to this point).
Society's conditioning of its population to expect instant gratification is not a good thing, and certainly is not constructive when dealing with such dire situations. It creates unreasonable expectations, and unacceptable conditions in the measurement of success. (Just what I believe to be the case here).
The fix for all of this is for every single unemployed person to march their happy asses to DC and hold the SOB's accountable; all of them. But it is far too easy to sit back and chunk rocks at a sitting POTUS. This nation has become a jungle and it is governed by jungle rules. Its population had better start living those rules instead of engaging in armchair quarterbacking tactics.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 02:53:13 PM
My point exactly; thank you very much.
You aren't being criticized, but rather I personally am trying to point out how you are whipping the wagon for the horse's refusal to move! It accomplishes nothing.
And what you are doing is demonstrating a very high level of unreasonable adjudication of a man's abilities based upon his first 28 days in office. Tell me, if he eventually delivers on each and every item you now call him a "liar" over, will he still be a liar in your opinion? (I expect so).
Your expectations are deeply laced with sour grapes and I wonder if they would be the same had the opposing party been the victors. (I somehow doubt that). Mine on the other hand would have been. Had McCain won and taken similar measures I would still be as supportive as I have been of the current POTUS; again until he proved to be unworthy of that trust. (Just as I was of the chimp. And if you doubt that then search through my postings from the start of the Iraqi conflict. I was behind the chimp until he proved he is a chimp, then I began seriously questioning him and his administration. It is all here in this forum if you don't believe it search through my postings. But you should know of all people here Hank, because you were here!)
First of all, I would have criticized McCain, Bush, Pence, or BHO....if they supported a bill like we just passed.....it was wrong no matter what.
but adding salt to the wound, bho was the one who said, he was going to build a bridge between the parties....he was going to end earmarks and pork...he said no more secrecy......
PH, as God as my witness, I hope and pray, that everything gets better, and I will praise bho, if and when this happens.....I have TOO much at stake for failures....I have been through enough.....I don't have sour grapes, I am simply stating the facts as I see them.....
THIS BILL IS WRONG!!!....I don't agree with way they are wanting OUR money distributed...to stimulate the economy.....I simply think it will NOT have any immediate effects and the long-term effects I fear are going to be the worst.....that is how I see it PH.....
you have criticized....claiming I am being unreasonable..........and that is okay...........I felt many on here was extremely unreasonable with the chimp as you have classicly nicknamed.....
we obviously disagree with each other.........but, I am not backing down from my convictions as you had strong convictions about bush.
If I am being unreasonable for not getting excited about the largest spending bill in the history of our country at a time we should NOT be spending money....
PH, do you realize this is NOT the first time our country has been through economic hardships?...........the average recession usually lasts from 12 to 24 months.............maybe we need to REAL in some pork and some of this spending until this economic period has ran its course.
The last economic hardship this country faced was in the late 70's..........and it was handled the opposite of what we are doing................it worked pretty well back then.......I think I am being very reasonable.
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 03:03:26 PM
I will say one thing. I imagine at this point he has discovered that he will be just a pawn in Congress' game if he don't get a grip and take the bull by the horns. If not I hope he figures it out real soon.
The problem is that the real power is held by congress. Sure he can veto the hell out of the pork but they can also over rule him as well. They can block, stall, kill, just as well as he can; and the bottom line is the only people that are negatively impacted by any of it is. . . well go look in the mirror. They do not care! And they won't until we make them care. WE have to do this, not the POTUS or congress. Sure they have to enact the bills, protocols, legislation, etc., but they are only going to do what we force them to in our interests. Otherwise, its business as usual because there are no personal ramifications for them.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 03:10:43 PM
The fix for all of this is for every single unemployed person to march their happy asses to DC and hold the SOB's accountable; all of them. But it is far too easy to sit back and chunk rocks at a sitting POTUS. This nation has become a jungle and it is governed by jungle rules. Its population had better start living those rules instead of engaging in armchair quarterbacking tactics.
THIS I agree with 1000%, I would gladly join you on an excursion as such....but the potus, is no exception....all of them need to hear from us....
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 03:14:25 PM
The problem is that the real power is held by congress. Sure he can veto the hell out of the pork but they can also over rule him as well. They can block, stall, kill, just as well as he can; and the bottom line is the only people that are negatively impacted by any of it is. . . well go look in the mirror. They do not care! And they won't until we make them care. WE have to do this, not the POTUS or congress. Sure they have to enact the bills, protocols, legislation, etc., but they are only going to do what we force them to in our interests. Otherwise, its business as usual because there are no personal ramifications for them.
but the new POTUS had a golden opportunity to set the stage for the way things NEED to be.....and AMERICANS would have applauded him....both parties!!...THAT would have built the bridge WE need at this time........THAT is the LEADERSHIP we NEED!!!!
IMO
You know me Henry, and I lived through the same crap you have. I've started over so many times in my life that I should have a doctorate in start ups.
The truth is I have sincere doubt that anything we are going to do or have done is going to accomplish anything more than stalling the eventual and total economic collapse of this country.
What we are going through is remarkably similar to that which Yugoslavia endured up to its eventual collapse and disappearance. ( Research Ivan Pongracic - Former Director of the Economy - Yugoslavia). And I strongly suspect that we are headed toward a total failure of astounding proportions.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2009, 03:19:00 PM
but the new POTUS had a golden opportunity to set the stage for the way things NEED to be.....and AMERICANS would have applauded him....both parties!!...THAT would have built the bridge WE need at this time........THAT is the LEADERSHIP we NEED!!!!
IMO
Utopian expectations. The reality is engaging in leadership via attrition will result in congressional gridlock. If what you say is true we should have elected Mike Ditka as POTUS!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 17, 2009, 08:23:44 AM
Stimulus Bill Broke 7 Obama Promises (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-no-more-secrecy-about-bills)....
7 Broken Promises in Record Time
1. Make government open and transparent.
2. Make it "impossible" for Congressmen to slip in pork barrel projects.
3. Meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public. (Even Congressional Republicans shut out.)
4. No more secrecy.
5. Public will have 5 days to look at a bill.
6. You'll know what's in it.
7. We will put every pork barrel project online.
Funny, but not one of Mr. Obama's promises were met with the most expensive spending bill in our nation's history
Obama breaks five-day pledge (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18441.html)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ARRA_public_review/ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ARRA_public_review/)
http://www.recovery.gov/ (http://www.recovery.gov/)
Done. . . If you'll read through the entire bill you will note that many of its provisions do not begin until a 90 day period has expired. Whatever it is within this bill that you find objectionable needs to be communicated PDQ in order to get our responsive representation to react to it.
Better get busy reading because this thing is going to kill a lot of trees when folks start printing it out.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 06:18:51 PM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ARRA_public_review/ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ARRA_public_review/)
http://www.recovery.gov/ (http://www.recovery.gov/)
Done. . . If you'll read through the entire bill you will note that many of its provisions do not begin until a 90 day period has expired. Whatever it is within this bill that you find objectionable needs to be communicated PDQ in order to get our responsive representation to react to it.
Better get busy reading because this thing is going to kill a lot of trees when folks start printing it out.
Oh no. You mean this is really online, with time for public comment. Holy Shit. Wonder which liar said it wasn't.
Quote from: dan foster on February 18, 2009, 07:01:49 PM
Oh no. You mean this is really online, with time for public comment. Holy Shit. Wonder which liar said it wasn't.
It was there in bits and pieces before but it wasn't put up in its entirety until after it had been signed.
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 08:19:07 PM
It was there in bits and pieces before but it wasn't put up in its entirety until after it had been signed.
Very few are reading it anyway, so what's the diff? (Aside from the fact that "they" are soliciting input and have put a 90 day delay on many of its provisions. . .)
And let me tell you this thing is like reading contract law, so I doubt many "Joe the Plumbers" are clamoring to kill trees in order to read what they have an ice cubes chance in hell of comprehending! :razz: :biggrin:
(EDIT: Wonder how long before "Greenfleece" protests all the trees this bill is killing?) :biggrin:
Depends on how many people they figure are printing it out. I started to print out some of it and thought better of it 'cause my ink cartridges cost a wad and you can't buy just one you have to buy the whole package of colors. I might decide later to do it though if I run across something I really want to check out good.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 09:06:23 PM
Very few are reading it anyway, so what's the diff? (Aside from the fact that "they" are soliciting input and have put a 90 day delay on many of its provisions. . .)
And let me tell you this thing is like reading contract law, so I doubt many "Joe the Plumbers" are clamoring to kill trees in order to read what they have an ice cubes chance in hell of comprehending! :razz: :biggrin:
(EDIT: Wonder how long before "Greenfleece" protests all the trees this bill is killing?) :biggrin:
You aren't a millennial if you have to print it out to read it. Most have already been through it on their crackberry... :biggrin:
Quote from: dan foster on February 18, 2009, 10:43:42 PM
You aren't a millennial if you have to print it out to read it. Most have already been through it on their crackberry... :biggrin:
I hate to think of how long it would take to read it on a crackberry! :spooked:
"Newsprint" template makes you go up and down to read three columns.
I also started to print it out but thought better of it. Last thing I need is to burn through 2 reams of paper and an ink cartridge ! :rolleyes: I'll just sit and read in spurts as time allows. . .
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 10:41:32 AM
And I suppose you're going to tell me that you've read and understand all of them, I assume you clicked the link and noticed there were several in there.
No, unlike you I am willing to admit I don't understand all of it so I am not in a position to ridicule it either.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 18, 2009, 03:13:45 PM
First of all, I would have criticized McCain, Bush, Pence, or BHO....
Bullshit!
Quote from: me on February 18, 2009, 08:19:07 PM
It was there in bits and pieces before but it wasn't put up in its entirety until after it had been signed.
More bullshit!
The bill has been posted all along. Along with all the changes. You yourself posted an article from that hack hired gun from the Hudson Institute last week with links to the bill.
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.msg299119#msg299119 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13277.msg299119#msg299119)
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2009, 09:09:49 AM
Bullshit!
gazootite.....
that is a fact my friend.........I am a Conservative NOT a republican....and any Conservative would be sicken by this package......now, I agree there will NEVER, ever be a perfect bill....I have criticized Bush and especially McCain....in the past.
Look, I honestly hope this works.... I really do..............I just disgree with this much spending during a time of huge bailouts to the banks and auto industry.............I worry about where...ALL of this money is going to come from.
I am resigning myself, temporarily from this issue.................if I can!..... :spooked:......It is time to see what happens... :yes:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 18, 2009, 03:24:11 PM
The truth is I have sincere doubt that anything we are going to do or have done is going to accomplish anything more than stalling the eventual and total economic collapse of this country.
What we are going through is remarkably similar to that which Yugoslavia endured up to its eventual collapse and disappearance. ( Research Ivan Pongracic - Former Director of the Economy - Yugoslavia). And I strongly suspect that we are headed toward a total failure of astounding proportions.
I hope that you are wrong but I fear that you may not be and if that happens, it is going to get very ugly indeed.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2009, 02:11:42 PM
I hope that you are wrong but I fear that you may not be and if that happens, it is going to get very ugly indeed.
Nothing would please me more than to be wrong about this! :spooked:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 19, 2009, 02:52:11 PM
Nothing would please me more than to be wrong about this! :spooked:
Me either but buying ammo is still prudent.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2009, 03:04:13 PM
Me either but buying ammo is still prudent.
:smile: :yes: Yep! 8)
That initiative has been under way for awhile now! :wink:
Quote from: Palehorse on February 19, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
:smile: :yes: Yep! 8)
That initiative has been under way for awhile now! :wink:
I'm trying to figure out where I can get one of these. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_hVIqpbE4&feature=related)
Whoa, definitely not something to take on a squirrel or rabbit hunting trip. :eek:
Quote from: Exterminator on February 19, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
I'm trying to figure out where I can get one of these. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_hVIqpbE4&feature=related)
Had to wait until I got home to see this one. Now I want a couple! 300 12 ga. rounds a minute! :spooked: :icon_twisted: With those grenade rounds too?! Gives new meaning to the term "street sweeper"! 8) :icon_twisted:
Quote from: me on February 19, 2009, 05:29:12 PM
Whoa, definitely not something to take on a squirrel or rabbit hunting trip. :eek:
If I was going to hunt, it'd be people and I'd do it for money. :icon_twisted:
Obama's Broken Promises at One Month (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/805)..just to reinforce my original story....
Good Morning all.... :yes:
Get a clue. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 09:17:20 AM
Get a clue. :rolleyes:
There is NOTHING there in that article that is inaccurate!!.....roll your eyes ALL you want too, son!
You have a tough time dealing with that fact that you may have voted for another person that is just as political (and a liar) as the one you didn't vote for.....I thought you like to read facts?.... :confused:
oh, btw way................ :rolleyes: ;D ;D Happy Monday EX! :)
Go with that, clueless wonder.
Quote from: Exterminator on February 23, 2009, 09:29:32 AM
Go with that, clueless wonder.
are you having a difficult time understanding the article EX!!... :confused:
I know, there are NO pictures for you to look at in the article..... :razz:
I feel really good today!!!....How about you Ex?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 09:32:10 AM
are you having a difficult time understanding the article EX!!... :confused:
I know, there are NO pictures for you to look at in the article..... :razz:
Yeah, that's it alright.
QuoteI feel really good today!!!....How about you Ex?
I'm great!
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/26/news/companies/gm_results/index.htm?postversion=2009022607 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/26/news/companies/gm_results/index.htm?postversion=2009022607)GM Loses 9.6 Billion in 4th Quarter!
I'm sorry but I still think bailing out the big 3 is a BAD idea! :icon_evil:
The one thing I fail to understand is how GM went from having enough to purchase Chrysler before all this bailout talk started to broke instantly.
Quote from: me on February 26, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
The one thing I fail to understand is how GM went from having enough to purchase Chrysler before all this bailout talk started to broke instantly.
Poor management 101! :mad:
We used to own some GM shares thru employee stock ownership program. After working there a few years, however, I sold ALL my shares. Like I told Ma, I've SEEN how they run that company, and they're not gonna do it with our money!
Quote from: Palehorse on February 26, 2009, 11:50:54 AM
Poor management 101! :mad:
You sure it isn't creative bookkeeping? Projected profit-actual profit=loss or something to that effect. :wink:
It wouldn't surprise me one bit find somebody has been cooking the books there! :mad:
Me either. All I know is something don't quite jibe. If they were operating at enough of a profit to buy out Chrysler, which they had announced the plans for prior to this bailout money being announced, how are they so broke now.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on February 23, 2009, 08:45:35 AM
Obama's Broken Promises at One Month (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/805)..just to reinforce my original story....
Good Morning all.... :yes:
....yawn.....crickets......
Reality is this: this bill is full of things that won't to anything to create a job. Sure, building a high speed rail line will create a job, eventually. But out of a trillion $, shouldn't we expect more?
Do the math: 3.5 million jobs for $1 trillion spent = $285,714 per job! Ok, use the $800 billion number instead. That comes to $228k per job!
Are 3.5 million people really going to be hired for $228k each? If so, sign me up!
Why don't you check these facts:
How does giving $200 million to WW2 veterans in the Phillipines help us?
How does spending billions on medicare payments create jobs?
How does taxing corporations to pay for more unempolyment benefits encourage them to hire?
Will you explain the $250 million in tax cuts given specifically to Hollywood movie producers?
How does $400 million for the CDC to screen and prevent STD's create jobs?
How about another $850 million for Amtrak? Since 1970, Amtrak has received over $30 billion in bailout funds, and shown nothing for it.
Why $88 million for a polar ice breaker. Afterall, according to Gore and his Global Warming Parrots, won't there soon be no ice up there to break?
Quote from: Doc on February 27, 2009, 10:58:51 PM
Are 3.5 million people really going to be hired for $228k each? If so, sign me up!
Hell, I'm guessing you'd jump at eight bucks an hour!
Quote from: Exterminator on March 02, 2009, 08:04:29 AM
Hell, I'm guessing you'd jump at eight bucks an hour!
:biggrin: :biggrin:
The way things seem to be going even those jobs won't be available much longer. Unfortunately it's looking more and more like I'm going to be the one saying I told you so and I really hate that 'cause like I said, that ain't a good thing and I'd really rather not have to say it.
Make that 8 broken promises....
President Obama is reinstating the same deeply-flawed military commissions that in June 2008 he called an 'enormous failure.' In one swift move, Obama both backtracks on a major campaign promise (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=prnw.20090515.DC17891&show_article=1) to change the way the United States fights terrorism and undermines the nation's core respect for the rule of law by sacrificing due process for political expediency....
Obama ducks promise (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/26/obama-vow-to-delay-signing-is-subject-to-interpret/) to delay bill signings.....
It seemed among the easiest of his transparency pledges and is entirely under his control, but President Obama is finagling his promise to post bills on the White House Web site for comment for five days before he signs them.
Mr. Obama last week signed four bills, each just a day or two after Congress passed and sent it over to him.
No one cares. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 26, 2009, 10:41:11 AM
No one cares. :rolleyes:
You had better start caring.... :rolleyes:
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 10:41:48 AM
You had better start caring.... :rolleyes:
Why?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 26, 2009, 10:41:11 AM
No one cares. :rolleyes:
It seems like it may only be THOSE of you who do not have the ablility to understand WHAT is going on...maybe you should speak for yourself... ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 10:43:14 AM
It seems like it may only be THOSE of you who do not have the ablility to understand WHAT is going on...maybe you should speak for yourself... ;)
Yeah, you're right; with your massive intellect and wealth of education you are certainly in a better position to understand what is going on than am I. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 26, 2009, 11:12:21 AM
Yeah, you're right; with your massive intellect and wealth of education you are certainly in a better position to understand what is going on than am I. :rolleyes:
uh.........well, yes!...yes I am!.... :yes:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 26, 2009, 11:12:21 AM
Yeah, you're right; with your massive intellect and wealth of education you are certainly in a better position to understand what is going on than am I. :rolleyes:
Education has nothing to do with the ability to see past the smoke and mirrors.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 10:40:03 AM
Obama ducks promise (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/26/obama-vow-to-delay-signing-is-subject-to-interpret/) to delay bill signings.....
It seemed among the easiest of his transparency pledges and is entirely under his control, but President Obama is finagling his promise to post bills on the White House Web site for comment for five days before he signs them.
Mr. Obama last week signed four bills, each just a day or two after Congress passed and sent it over to him.
AGAIN....not to just let this one be 'exed' away.....this is just to show what kind of LIAR this guy IS.
From your posted article .....
"The White House said it posted links from its Web site to Congress' legislative Web site about a week before Mr. Obama signed the measures, but transparency advocates say that doesn't match the president's pledge to give Americans time to comment on the final version he is about to sign."
"When there's a bill that ends up on my desk as president, you the public will have five days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it, so that you know what your government's doing," Mr. Obama said in a major campaign speech laying out his goals for transparency.
.........
Nitpicking at its best.
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 11:27:41 AM
Education has nothing to do with the ability to see past the smoke and mirrors.
LMFAO! Keep telling yourself that.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 11:32:35 AM
AGAIN....not to just let this one be 'exed' away.....this is just to show what kind of LIAR this guy IS.
Pot...kettle...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 11:25:46 AM
uh.........well, yes!...yes I am!.... :yes:
Delusional is what you are.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 11:52:48 AM
From your posted article .....
"The White House said it posted links from its Web site to Congress' legislative Web site about a week before Mr. Obama signed the measures, but transparency advocates say that doesn't match the president's pledge to give Americans time to comment on the final version he is about to sign."
"When there's a bill that ends up on my desk as president, you the public will have five days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it, so that you know what your government's doing," Mr. Obama said in a major campaign speech laying out his goals for transparency.
.........
Nitpicking at its best.
Mr. Obama last week signed four bills, each just a day or two after Congress passed and sent it over to him...
Call it nitpicking if you want........he signed them TWO days after congress passed them.........that is NOT a week, nor was it posted on the White House site for five days....and THAT is what he said he would do....
I think the word ... delusional... is what Ex used....THAT is what he want's everybody to be.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 12:17:44 PMnor was it posted on the White House site for five days....
No, you are correct. It wasn't posted for five days. The bills were posted a week before he signed them.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 12:27:27 PM
No, you are correct. It wasn't posted for five days. The bills were posted a week before he signed them.
Prove it...the article said he signed four bills a day or two after congress passed them........maybe they was on the web BEFORE the became a bill......the verbage could have changed,....but he signed them a day or two AFTER congress passed them.
that is not five days or a week........that is a day or two.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 12:27:27 PM
No, you are correct. It wasn't posted for five days. The bills were posted a week before he signed them.
If you insist on using truth and logic in your responses, Henry won't be left with anything to bitch about.
Obama did say "unless it was an emergency" which is why all these bills are getting the rush through before anyone can find out what's really in them or they can be properly read by congress. That speed reader they had for one of the most recent bills was a joke. He, the speed reader, didn't even read the whole bill to congress. How can we be sure what was in it if Congress don't even know? They are changing what certain things are called to make them sound more "acceptable" and using all kinds of smoke screens to keep people from knowing whats hidden in these bills until they get passed. Everything about this congress is divisive and deceptive not to mention diversionary.
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 12:36:56 PM
these bills are getting the rush through before anyone can find out what's really in them or they can be properly read by congress.
Hmmmmm .... that reminds me .... forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly what was said about the Patriot Act?
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 12:39:41 PM
Hmmmmm .... that reminds me .... forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly what was said about the Patriot Act?
See there you go. The Patriot Act was necessary to keep our shit from being blown up. Bush has
nothing to do with what's going on now.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 12:35:35 PM
Your own article says so.
"He didn't say, 'When there's a bill heading to my desk,' or 'When we're pretty sure a bill will soon be passed.' He said when a bill ends up on his desk ..... you will have FIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t8GdxFYBU) days....to view it!!....those are HIS lying words....not mine.
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 12:42:43 PM
Bush has nothing to do with what's going on now.
He has
everything to do with what's going on now. We must act quickly to get out of this mess he got us into.
As far as I've seen there have been many meetings where the press wasn't even allowed. His words, "meetings where laws are written will be open to the public, no more secrecy".
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 12:47:23 PM
"He didn't say, 'When there's a bill heading to my desk,' or 'When we're pretty sure a bill will soon be passed.' He said when a bill ends up on his desk ..... you will have FIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t8GdxFYBU) days....to view it!!....those are HIS lying words....not mine.
The fact remains that links to the bill were posted a full week before he signed them. Did you take time to read them and comment on them? And comment where it counts, not on some forum somewhere? Anybody?
Still nobody cares. :no:
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 12:52:23 PM
As far as I've seen there have been many meetings where the press wasn't even allowed. His words, "meetings where laws are written will be open to the public, no more secrecy".
Examples, please.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 12:54:16 PM
The fact remains that links to the bill were posted a full week before he signed them. Did you take time to read them and comment on them? And comment where it counts, not on some forum somewhere? Anybody?
Hell, no. They don't actually want to read the bills; they just want to bitch.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 12:48:12 PM
He has everything to do with what's going on now. We must act quickly to get out of this mess he got us into.
Thats the excuse that keeps being bandied about by left wingers but it seems things were going fine until '06' when we had a Dem majority in congress. That excuse it getting old real quick. You Bush bashers had better wake up and take a real look around.
just another broken promise..by a guy who CAMPAIGNED on NOT breaking promises....he is just another snake, that is adored by the media...and is BAD for our country...imo.
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 12:58:02 PM
Thats the excuse that keeps being bandied about by left wingers but it seems things were going fine until '06' when we had a Dem majority in congress. That excuse it getting old real quick. You Bush bashers had better wake up and take a real look around.
And what will you people who worshiped at the feet of Bush do?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 26, 2009, 01:00:19 PM
just another broken promise..by a guy who CAMPAIGNED on NOT breaking promises....he is just another snake, that is adored by the media...and is BAD for our country...imo.
You didn't answer my question, Henry. Did you read the bills? Would you read the bills?
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 01:04:35 PM
And what will you people who worshiped at the feet of Bush do?
You're engaged in a battle of wits with someone who thinks "things were going fine until '06"...think about it.
Quote from: Bo D on May 26, 2009, 01:05:33 PM
You didn't answer my question, Henry. Did you read the bills? Would you read the bills?
Did I?....NO....would I?....possibly......should I?.....YES....
That is NOT the issue though.......the issue is, HE PROMISED to do something, that he did NOT keep...it was just another "feel good" talking point, that he used in his speaches....with NO real intentions on keeping them...
Quote from: Exterminator on May 26, 2009, 01:08:01 PM
You're engaged in a battle of wits with someone who thinks "things were going fine until '06"...think about it.
I'm beginning to realize that's my problem ... I think.
Quote from: me on May 26, 2009, 12:58:02 PM
Thats the excuse that keeps being bandied about by left wingers but it seems things were going fine until '06' when we had a Dem majority in congress. That excuse it getting old real quick. You Bush bashers had better wake up and take a real look around.
Id love for me to expound on what, exactly, happened since 06 that put us in the situation we are in.
Quote from: Gryphon on May 26, 2009, 02:27:06 PM
Id love for me to expound on what, exactly, happened since 06 that put us in the situation we are in.
Be careful what you wish for.
Obama Lifts Ban on Lobbyists!.....yet ANOTHER bronken promise.. :no:
Blah, blah, blah... :rolleyes:
(http://www.paultobey.com/images/linus-and-lucy.gif)
Now Obama in an interview on a French television station states that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.".... :confused: :rolleyes:
There are around 2.3 million Muslims in America... :yes:
Indonesia - 200 million Muslims
India - 156 million Muslims
Pakistan - 150 million Muslims
Is Biden writing his speeches now?..... :confused: :razz:.........it is an outright lie... :yes:
He also said during his campaign, that his father was atheist........but NOW, in a speech in front of "Muslims"...he proudly claims his father was Muslim......................L I A R.
I should move this the Henry's RANT, but I thought i would rename this thread, and stick future broken promises and lies here..........
Hey, well ALL need a hobby.... ;) ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 04, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
Hey, well ALL need a hobby.... ;) ;D
And you've chosen being a bore as yours?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 04, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
. . .Hey, well ALL need a hobby.... ;) ;D
And you my friend, are in dire need of a constructive one. :wink: :biggrin:
(Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.)
Damned Ex! :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 04, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
And you've chosen being a bore as yours?
It is just as exciting as skydiving.... :yes:......just a mater of perspective.... ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 04, 2009, 01:44:06 PM
It is just as exciting as skydiving....
For a little nancy-girl maybe. :razz:
:rotfl: :food24:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 04, 2009, 01:45:05 PM
For a little nancy-girl maybe. :razz:
that's Mister Nancy-girl to you, pal......... :yes:
White House Blocks Access to Visitor List (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/white-house-blocks-access-visitor-list/)
In a move that puts a cloud over transparency, White House officials are blocking access to the lists of the names of visitors to the White House.
The practice, carried over from the Bush administration, argues the public does not need to know who comes calling at the Executive Mansion, even for policy purposes.
"We are deeply disappointed," said Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington spokeswoman Anne Weismann, whose group is suing to get the records.
"The president, who has committed his administration to transparency and accountability, now takes the position of the Bush administration that the public is not entitled to know who visits the White House. These are not the actions of a pro-transparency administration," she said.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 16, 2009, 01:29:38 PM
White House Blocks Access to Visitor List (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/white-house-blocks-access-visitor-list/)
.
The practice, carried over from the Bush administration, .
AHEM! :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 16, 2009, 01:46:32 PM
AHEM! :biggrin:
THAT is not the point........I saw that when I read it......
I'm simply here as a public servant to point out the err's and blunders, of the 'chosen' one.... :razz:
it is my "calling" to the aid of my country... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 16, 2009, 01:48:26 PM
THAT is not the point........I saw that when I read it......
I'm simply here as a public servant to point out the err's and blunders, of the 'chosen' one.... :razz:
it is my "calling" to the aid of my country... :yes:
SOUR GRAPES!
Hows come you weren't screeching when the chimp initiated the practice in the first place?
Quote from: Palehorse on June 16, 2009, 01:53:01 PM
SOUR GRAPES!
Hows come you weren't screeching when the chimp initiated the practice in the first place?
It did not bother me..... :no:.....but he did not promise to NOT do it in the first place, like omama did.... :razz:...no sour grapes whatsoever...just don't like the guy, that's it... :no:
Now, now Henry. That's not only sour grapes but a double standard as well! :razz:
:blah:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 16, 2009, 02:01:28 PM
Now, now Henry. That's not only sour grapes but a double standard as well! :razz:
what..ev....er!.. :rolleyes: :razz:
But what could they do with all those sour grapes...if it weren't for the whine business ;D
Lets not forget that Obama said unemployment would top out at 8% and it now stands at 9 1/2% and still climbing. :rolleyes:
I see the aliens are joining the whine business as well. . . :spooked:
It is important to specify what you mean by "alien." Are you speaking of ELFs, or undocumented immigrants?
An alien by any other name is still and alien....
Not so, me. Undocumented immigrants are a political hot button, but they are still people. ELFs are dangerous! Especially the reptillian kind. But don't underestimate the grays.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 18, 2009, 07:43:46 PM
Not so, me. Undocumented immigrants are a political hot button, but they are still people. ELFs are dangerous! Especially the reptillian kind. But don't underestimate the grays.
The grays?
These.
(http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:HgQDy-4HE5LhWM::www.weeklyuniverse.com/2002/gray%252520alien.gif)
Quote from: LOsborne on June 18, 2009, 08:07:08 PM
These.
(http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:HgQDy-4HE5LhWM::www.weeklyuniverse.com/2002/gray%252520alien.gif)
Awwww, isn't he cute..... :smitten:
ELF's was the definition of my statement. . . But now I see the ELF has morphed nto a puppet! :spooked:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 19, 2009, 07:18:18 AM
ELF's was the definition of my statement. . .
Reptillians or grays?
Psst... I think me may be mind-controlled. Watch yourself.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 19, 2009, 07:31:56 AM
Reptillians or grays?
Psst... I think me may be mind-controlled. Watch yourself.
Reptilian. . . definitely. . .
Wouldn't me have to possess a mind before it could be controlled? :biggrin:
I'm certain she has a mind -- and rather a good one, despite that fact that she is pre-disposed to resist change. It's just that she confessed to not paying attention to how she wore the tin-foil, and I know from experience how hazardous that can be.
I just used it as a piece of equipment in suiting up for hockey!
Quote from: LOsborne on June 19, 2009, 07:31:56 AM
Reptillians or grays?
Psst... I think me may be mind-controlled. Watch yourself.
:biggrin: :yes: :no: :yes: :no: :yes: :no:
Quote from: me on June 19, 2009, 03:13:27 PM
:biggrin: :yes: :no: :yes: :no: :yes: :no:
:sling:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 19, 2009, 03:14:59 PM
:sling:
Hey cut that out it tickles :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: me on June 19, 2009, 03:41:16 PM
Hey cut that out it tickles :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Watch it or I'll skin yah for the pelt you wear!
Quote from: Palehorse on June 19, 2009, 03:51:55 PM
Watch it or I'll skin yah for the pelt you wear!
No problem, I'll just grown another.... :razz:
and yet another one...... :rant:.......it appears the Tax hikes for the Middle Class (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-Obama-officials-No-apf-2491158742.html?x=0&.v=7) are on the way....
I am waiting to see how much our income taxes are next year. We should fall into the category of retired people who pay no income taxes at all. I will believe it when I see it. I actually don't mind paying taxes. I think we get a lot of benefits from them. Of course there are all those weird studies that I think are stupid, like studying cow farts. ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2009, 12:01:38 PM
and yet another one...... :rant:.......it appears the Tax hikes for the Middle Class (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-Obama-officials-No-apf-2491158742.html?x=0&.v=7) are on the way....
So who told you that; rush or beck? Either way, you are prepositioned to believe them. They are just as crazy as your pastors.
Have to fix some typos.
Geithner Won't Rule Out New Taxes for Middle Class
August 02, 2009 8:02 AM
To get the economy back on track, will President Barack Obama have to break his pledge not to raise taxes on 95 percent of Americans? In a "This Week" exclusive, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner told me, "We're going to have to do what's necessary."
Geithner was clear that he believes a key component of economic recovery is deficit reduction. When I gave him several opportunities to rule out a middle class tax hike, he wouldn't do it.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/08/geithner-wont-rule-out-new-taxes-for-middle-class.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House shot down concerns Monday that middle-class families may face a tax increase in order to combat rising deficits and a struggling economy.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/
go ahead and believe that.... ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 03, 2009, 08:57:57 PM
go ahead and believe that.... ;)
Yeah. Can't be true. Beck told you something different.
Hum...... :confused:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0XCl6OHgiM&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE&feature=player_embedded
Does this mean he changed his mind or he was lying to the AARP crowd?
Quote from: me on August 05, 2009, 08:26:59 PM
Does this mean he changed his mind or he was lying to the AARP crowd?
He figured he was safe because you wouldn't remember anyway. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 06:57:12 AM
He figured he was safe because you wouldn't remember anyway. :biggrin:
Wrong....... It just took me a while to find it...... :biggrin:
Quote from: me on August 06, 2009, 07:54:06 AM
Wrong....... It just took me a while to find it...... :biggrin:
I'm just saying that you old people's memories ain't what they used to be. :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 08:41:03 AM
I'm just saying that you old people's memories ain't what they used to be. :razz:
And you young whipper snappers don't pay attention.... :razz:
Quote from: me on August 06, 2009, 09:21:28 AM
And you young whipper snappers don't pay attention.... :razz:
Sure we do; you're just not relevant. :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 09:39:44 AM
Sure we do; you're just not relevant. :razz:
Not in the health care he wants anyway. Remember you're gonna be one of us older people eventually. :razz:
Quote from: me on August 06, 2009, 09:48:16 AM
Not in the health care he wants anyway. Remember you're gonna be one of us older people eventually. :razz:
Do you mean healthcare as in the myths that you're gullible enough to believe and have been propagating? (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/08/06/healthcare/)
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 10:24:42 AM
Do you mean healthcare as in the myths that you're gullible enough to believe and have been propagating? (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/08/06/healthcare/)
Nope the ones that you are too stubborn to see or think won't happen like rationed care and medicine, long waits, not enough doctors, and the government deciding if you get a certain procedure or not depending on how cost effective it is. Like I said earlier on, have you ever driven past a free clinic and seen the number of people there or talked to them about how the service they got was? Why do you think free nationalized health care would be any different? What makes you think you would get to chose your doctor?
Quote from: me on August 06, 2009, 11:44:06 AM
Nope the ones that you are too stubborn to see or think won't happen like rationed care and medicine, long waits, not enough doctors, and the government deciding if you get a certain procedure or not depending on how cost effective it is. Like I said earlier on, have you ever driven past a free clinic and seen the number of people there or talked to them about how the service they got was? Why do you think free nationalized health care would be any different? What makes you think you would get to chose your doctor?
Either you didn't bother to read the article or you're as big a liar as Henry.
ATTENTION EVERYONE! DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING 'ME' SAYS ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE PLAN BECAUSE SHE'S A LYING SHILL FOR THE NEOCONS. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS!
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 12:53:17 PM
Either you didn't bother to read the article or you're as big a liar as Henry.
ATTENTION EVERYONE! DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING 'ME' SAYS ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE PLAN BECAUSE SHE'S A LYING SHILL FOR THE NEOCONS. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS!
And then there's using common sense which you obviously lack. :razz:
and EX is a liar too..:razz:...(and NO CHANGE BACKS!)...he is simply posting crap from a liberal website The Salon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon.com)..and expects THAT is the plain and simple TRUTH....
btw, I DID read the article and it was extremely amusing how THEY put their OWN twist on repubicans responses.........
I will agree with Ex..... ..... Do your OWN research and make your own decisions...it is pretty simple to tell who is out to "take control of our lives" and who is not....this congress is TRYING TOO hard to pass things before even THEY know what is in it.....why do you suppose that is?....they are trying desperately to get control before anybody even knows what is happening....
btw, I post MY opinions on here......and I usually post a link to support my opinion.....I stand behind my comments...and my beliefs...I never claim anything to be the gospel...(except the gospel itself).. :razz:...if that makes me a liar, then so be it....but Ex needs to take a long, long look into the mirror...(he favorite :razz: pastime btw...)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 06, 2009, 02:17:52 PM
and EX is a liar too..:razz:...(and NO CHANGE BACKS!)...he is simply posting crap from a liberal website The Salon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon.com)..and expects THAT is the plain and simple TRUTH....
I invite you, Henry, to scrutinize that article and point out to the class which parts are
factually incorrect.QuoteI will agree with Ex..... ..... Do your OWN research and make your own decisions...it is pretty simple to tell who is out to "take control of our lives" and who is not....this congress is TRYING TOO hard to pass things before even THEY know what is in it.....why do you suppose that is?....they are trying desperately to get control before anybody even knows what is happening....
Somebody needs to take control of your lives because you people obviously aren't smart enough to figure it out on your own. Too bad they didn't do it before you were allowed to breed.
You're a liar because you continue to spread the same tripe after it has been proven that what you are spreading is not true.
Quote from: me on August 06, 2009, 02:16:52 PM
And then there's using common sense which you obviously lack. :razz:
You live in Andertucky...what the fu@k could you possible know about common sense?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 02:44:13 PM
You live in Andertucky...what the fu@k could you possible know about common sense?
I know it's a darn sight better than living in Muncie.... :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 06, 2009, 02:41:13 PM
I invite you, Henry, to scrutinize that article and point out to the class which parts are factually incorrect.
Somebody needs to take control of your lives because you people obviously aren't smart enough to figure it out on your own. Too bad they didn't do it before you were allowed to breed.
You're a liar because you continue to spread the same tripe after it has been proven that what you are spreading is not true.
again, you are an ass, whoops, I'm sorry an Ass (capital A)......the republicans are hyping this up to bring attention to a Bill, that the dickheads wanted passed a week ago....nobody knows exact WHAT the hell this bill is going to bring to the table....we have ALREADY seen some of the moronic crap from the "stimulus bill".....i.e. cash for clunkers.
If I am a liar then so are you....all you seem to care about is trying to make yourself LOOK like something that you are not.
try having a little class once in a while....if that is possible.
Henry, me, you both say "check it out" but neither of you (nor Ex) provides a non-partisan link in able for us to do so.
Happily, I am able to repair your oversight. These links are from factcheck.org, which doesn't rely on party-line hype, or emotional prose to dissect the issue. Why not read them before shooting off your mouth on what you "know" is true?
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/surgery-for-seniors-vs-abortions/
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/
Quote from: LOsborne on August 06, 2009, 07:08:16 PM
Henry, me, you both say "check it out" but neither of you (nor Ex) provides a non-partisan link in able for us to do so.
Happily, I am able to repair your oversight. These links are from factcheck.org, which doesn't rely on party-line hype, or emotional prose to dissect the issue. Why not read them before shooting off your mouth on what you "know" is true?
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/surgery-for-seniors-vs-abortions/
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/
Won't help, LO. It is easier to just regurgitate the "party" line than it is to think for one's self. Why else do you think Hank is a religious nutjob? He has decided to let jesus think for him, on all issues, so he doesn't have to.
Quote from: LOsborne on August 06, 2009, 07:08:16 PM
Henry, me, you both say "check it out" but neither of you (nor Ex) provides a non-partisan link in able for us to do so.
Happily, I am able to repair your oversight. These links are from factcheck.org, which doesn't rely on party-line hype, or emotional prose to dissect the issue. Why not read them before shooting off your mouth on what you "know" is true?
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/surgery-for-seniors-vs-abortions/
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/
My whole point Lo, is that we HAVE to slow down on these Bills and spending....Let's see what is in it before we throw another TRILLION dollars AWAY.....I agree there IS politics being played here, but it is from BOTH parties....I personally do not TRUST the democrat party, and the republican party is not far behind them in my book......
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 06, 2009, 09:49:06 PM
Let's see what is in it before we throw another TRILLION dollars AWAY...
That is precisely why I recommended researching the bill on factcheck.org. The site discusses the "talking points" based on the actual text of the bill, as opposed to the spin put on it by both parties. Read it, and make draw your own conclusions, rather than believing what is spoon-fed to you by whichever pundit is currently fashionable with you. Think for yourself. Be a trend-setter.
Quote from: LOsborne on August 06, 2009, 10:05:05 PM
That is precisely why I recommended researching the bill on factcheck.org. The site discusses the "talking points" based on the actual text of the bill, as opposed to the spin put on it by both parties. Read it, and make draw your own conclusions, rather than believing what is spoon-fed to you by whichever pundit is currently fashionable with you. Think for yourself. Be a trend-setter.
I admit I listen to Limbaugh from time to time and Hannity...but, I also do a great deal of reading and I spend a lot of time on here, and, as much as I hate to admit it, I actually take Ex's opinion 'somewhat' serious....and I ALWAY's regard Palehorse's opinions as worthy....just because I do not agree with exactly what they have to say, it either confirms my stance or it pushes me to do more research....Lo, I am 100 times more open minded on MOST issues now, than I was when I first started on here.....and I LOVE to argue, and LOVE to play the devil advocate, especially when it "tick's" off Ex... :razz:
I just noticed the title of this thread again...is this another god sucks topic because if you want to talk about broken promises and lies, religion takes the fuggen' cake!
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25891.html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25891.html)
atta boy, build that bridge between the two parties, liked you bragged that you WOULD do... :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 07, 2009, 07:16:58 PM
atta boy, build that bridge between the two parties, liked you bragged that you WOULD do... :razz:
Oh hell, Henry. The only thing he could do that you would approve of is kill himself.
The Swiftboaters and the Birthers have proved the right-wing lunatic fringe isn't going to fight fair. So when y'all start hollering about euthanizing old folks and similar absurdities, we know from experience now, the only way to fight is with the truth: these objections are staged and scripted by those with money to lose -- the insurance company corporate suite members and the doctors who specialize in treating catastrophic diseases (on referral only), and those who have invested in their companies. They use time-proven methods of "the big lie" and playing on the racial fears which this country only pretends don't exist any more. And they'll drop in "Nazi" now and then, too, just for shiggles.
http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/08/07/violent-right-wing-town-hall-mob-linked-with-group-promoted-by-glenn-beck/
http://www.examiner.com/x-7910-DC-Capitol-Hill-Examiner~y2009m8d7-Birthers-health-reform-opposition-nutcases-give-protest-a-bad-name
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php
No, Henry, I don't want
any president "building a bridge" of understanding to people who think calling for bloodshed is a reasonable form of protest.
he is a typical, crooked, chicago, thug politician.......he sucks!!!... :rant:
Have I mentioned that lately? :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 07, 2009, 10:01:51 PM
typical, crooked, chicago, thug politician
The word "politician" is synonymous with "crooked" and "thug." And maybe with "Chicago."
Why do you hold him to higher standards than your guys?
Quote from: LOsborne on August 07, 2009, 10:08:35 PM
The word "politician" is synonymous with "crooked" and "thug." And maybe with "Chicago."
Why do you hold him to higher standards than your guys?
he is the piece of poop president, who was suppose to bring HOPE and CHANGE.....well, he sure has brought CHANGE.........and I now have HOPE for a NEW President....
Quote from: LOsborne on August 07, 2009, 09:54:36 PM
Oh hell, Henry. The only thing he could do that you would approve of is kill himself.
The Swiftboaters and the Birthers have proved the right-wing lunatic fringe isn't going to fight fair. So when y'all start hollering about euthanizing old folks and similar absurdities, we know from experience now, the only way to fight is with the truth: these objections are staged and scripted by those with money to lose -- the insurance company corporate suite members and the doctors who specialize in treating catastrophic diseases (on referral only), and those who have invested in their companies. They use time-proven methods of "the big lie" and playing on the racial fears which this country only pretends don't exist any more. And they'll drop in "Nazi" now and then, too, just for shiggles.
http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/08/07/violent-right-wing-town-hall-mob-linked-with-group-promoted-by-glenn-beck/
http://www.examiner.com/x-7910-DC-Capitol-Hill-Examiner~y2009m8d7-Birthers-health-reform-opposition-nutcases-give-protest-a-bad-name
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php
No, Henry, I don't want any president "building a bridge" of understanding to people who think calling for bloodshed is a reasonable form of protest.
Angry mobs of older people who weren't being allowed in because they had questions about the health care bill and weren't in agreement with it. Go to that other thread and start checking out those videos I posted and other links and quit basing your opinion on the ones posted by news groups and partial reporters. I think you'll find out that these aren't the "organized" groups you have been lead to believe they are but rather concerned private citizens who are attending of their on accord not because some one organized and bused them there.
Quote from: me on August 07, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Angry mobs of older people who weren't being allowed in because they had questions about the health care bill and weren't in agreement with it. Go to that other thread and start checking out those videos I posted and other links and quit basing your opinion on the ones posted by news groups and partial reporters. I think you'll find out that these aren't the "organized" groups you have been lead to believe they are but rather concerned private citizens who are attending of their on accord not because some one organized and bused them there.
Me, you are right, these are everyday folks, who are fed up with this government....a MISTAKE has finally be realized....there is a march in Washington next month.....THAT is going to show the true colors of America....
Henry and "me" wouldn't know an impartial source if it bit them on the arse b/c if a source is contrary to what they want to believe they label it as either "biased" or "liberal"...to hell with the truth it's all about the fact the lost and they're pissed.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on August 08, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
Henry and "me" wouldn't know an impartial source if it bit them on the arse b/c if a source is contrary to what they want to believe they label it as either "biased" or "liberal"...to hell with the truth it's all about the fact the lost and they're pissed.
and we can say the very same thing about you and your "buddies"...it pisses me off, if Rush or Hannity or Fox says something, you guys automatically assume it's is NOT the truth....I simply follow what IS true...and I do not get caught up in the liberal SLANT's to everything they post....the bottom line is, THE truth is going to happen, and THEN, what will be your excuses?
I think it's obvious who the readers/thinkers/researchers are here and who the spoonfed/gullible/sheep are, so just open up and say BAAAAAAA. ;D
Quote from: me on August 07, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Angry mobs of older people who weren't being allowed in because they had questions about the health care bill and weren't in agreement with it.
Screw those old people; they're nothing but leeches on society anyway! I wish the new health care bill did let us euthanize them! :icon_twisted:
QuoteI think you'll find out that these aren't the "organized" groups you have been lead to believe they are but rather concerned private citizens who are attending of their on accord not because some one organized and bused them there.
Bullshit!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 08, 2009, 10:19:18 AM
Me, you are right, these are everyday folks...
Yep, everyday uneducated, uninformed people who are being led around with propaganda.
Quote...THAT is going to show the true colors of America....
Right again and the color is red(necks).
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on August 08, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
Henry and "me" wouldn't know an impartial source if it bit them on the arse b/c if a source is contrary to what they want to believe they label it as either "biased" or "liberal"...to hell with the truth it's all about the fact the lost and they're pissed.
Did I already mention that you can't fix stupid?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on August 08, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
Henry and "me" wouldn't know an impartial source if it bit them on the arse b/c if a source is contrary to what they want to believe they label it as either "biased" or "liberal"...to hell with the truth it's all about the fact the lost and they're pissed.
So you'd rather believe a biased news report than an unedited clip shot by a bystander? How can you justify that?
Am I the only one who feels like Orly Taitz is posting here?
:biggrin:
Quote from: me on August 08, 2009, 03:21:12 PM
So you'd rather believe a biased news report than an unedited clip shot by a bystander? How can you justify that?
<
sigh> This isn't worth answering because it's obvious that you don't truly understand the concept of bias.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on August 08, 2009, 04:21:18 PM
<sigh> This isn't worth answering because it's obvious that you don't truly understand the concept of bias.
I understand it very well thank you.
Quote from: me on August 08, 2009, 05:03:52 PM
I understand it very well thank you.
Then you'll understand how even an eye-witness could be biased :wink:
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on August 08, 2009, 04:21:18 PM
<sigh> This isn't worth answering because it's obvious that you don't truly understand the concept of bias.
Or what the word 'unedited' implies.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 08, 2009, 05:32:58 PM
Or what the word 'unedited' implies.
I'm well aware of what it implies on both sides.
Quote from: me on August 08, 2009, 05:35:50 PM
I'm well aware of what it implies on both sides.
Never mind.
Good point :yes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKxJzmXT-u4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKxJzmXT-u4&feature=related)
Obama lies 8 times about the Health Care meetings being held on C SPAN
Quote from: me on August 08, 2009, 05:35:50 PM
I'm well aware of what it implies on both sides.
"Unedited" does not imply "sides." Certainly not "both sides." Unedited means raw copy. It hasn't been cleaned up, grammar/spell proofed, color corrected, photoshopped or source checked. It is not a term of approval or disapproval. C'mon
me, leave the dictionary alone.
Quote from: LOsborne on January 18, 2010, 06:58:56 PM
"Unedited" does not imply "sides." Certainly not "both sides." Unedited means raw copy. It hasn't been cleaned up, grammar/spell proofed, color corrected, photoshopped or source checked. It is not a term of approval or disapproval. C'mon me, leave the dictionary alone.
And that has what to do with my reply?
Ex is right.