Democrats SUCK!!

[Nighthawk]

  Nhawk, I didn't know you were such a student of union history.  Everything you have told me is bullshit.  You people got rid of manufacturing, saying that high tech would create the jobs we need to keep the country strong and rich.  You people were sure as hell wrong on that.  You Super Rich, corporation loving Republicans have caused all of the problems we are having now, it sure isn't the unions.

bullshit. really?? Where are your facts to back up that statement?

  And please don't say you're not Republican, the way you hate the unions, poor people, sick people, uneducated people and hate paying taxes to live in the greatest country in the world.  You couldn't vote anyway other way but Republican.

There you go putting words in my mouth yet again. Please show me anywhere that I posted that I hate poor people, sick people, uneducated people or hate paying taxes. I bet you can't

  From now on, please contact one of your anti-union and Republican friends  Hhawk and "ME".  All three of you are wrong in everything you think.  Just plain wrong, mean and stupid.  I do love the unions and the UAW, they sure made my life good.    I do know what side my bread is buttered on. 

Typical coward. You can't back up what you say so you go hide under a rock until things blow over. 

[The Troll]

  Scab.

[Palehorse]

Unions have historically been comprised largely of the labor forces primarily engaged within the manufacturing industry within the United States. They grew out of the need to rein in the abusive practices of management and ownership of these entities, toward those who engaged in the manufacturing processes they consisted of.

Employment within manufacturing was at its lowest point in the 1950's and current levels are substantially lower today!

Manufacturing Employment



*Graph courtesy of the Congressional Budget Office

Anyone who doesn't see the correlation between the loss of manufacturing jobs and the drop in union membership is either delusional or purposely being evasive. . .

The manufacturing sector of the U.S. economy has experienced substantial job losses over the past several years. In January 2004, the number of such jobs stood at 14.3 million, down by 3.0 million jobs, or 17.5 percent, since July 2000 and about 5.2 million since the historical peak in 1979. Employment in manufacturing was its lowest since July 1950. . . .

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5078&type=0

[Nighthawk]

Unions have historically been comprised largely of the labor forces primarily engaged within the manufacturing industry within the United States. They grew out of the need to rein in the abusive practices of management and ownership of these entities, toward those who engaged in the manufacturing processes they consisted of.

Employment within manufacturing was at its lowest point in the 1950's and current levels are substantially lower today!

Manufacturing Employment



*Graph courtesy of the Congressional Budget Office

Anyone who doesn't see the correlation between the loss of manufacturing jobs and the drop in union membership is either delusional or purposely being evasive. . .

The manufacturing sector of the U.S. economy has experienced substantial job losses over the past several years. In January 2004, the number of such jobs stood at 14.3 million, down by 3.0 million jobs, or 17.5 percent, since July 2000 and about 5.2 million since the historical peak in 1979. Employment in manufacturing was its lowest since July 1950. . . .

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5078&type=0

yes a drop in manufacturing jobs would cause a drop in union membership but that is not the only reason. According to your graph jobs hit a peak in 1979. 6 years at least after union membership was dropping. Also looks as though the biggest drop since 1950 was around 2000, 17 years from 1973. So, while the drop in manufacturing jobs does correlate to a drop in union membership this is not the only factor involved nor the largest.

It seems to me that it is simply a majority of the people do not want to belong to unions. They see them as just as greedy and corrupt as the corporations the unions were originally formed to fight against. Just look at the right to work states. They have the lowest union membership in the US because, given a choice, people don't wish to belong to a union.

[The Troll]

  Palehorse  you know the internet is like the bible.  If  you look long enough, hard enough, you can find a passage a statement to back up anything they are trying to shove down someones throat.

  That what the scab trio aways is trying to do.  They never want to ask the people directly involved with problem, what they want.  They don't count.  Only what the Republicans, Teabaggers and the Super Rich want. 

[Henry Hawk]

Anyone who doesn't see the correlation between the loss of manufacturing jobs and the drop in union membership is either delusional or purposely being evasive. . .

Is it remotely possible that the LOSS in union memberships is DUE to the UNIONS forcing a LOSS of manufacturing jobs because of UNIONS asking TOO much money and benefits to keep manufactors from competing and selling goods?

[Palehorse]

Is it remotely possible that the LOSS in union memberships is DUE to the UNIONS forcing a LOSS of manufacturing jobs because of UNIONS asking TOO much money and benefits to keep manufactors from competing and selling goods?

That is the eternal question now isn't it? IS it the overhead costs/ burden rates that made manufacturers flee this country in droves, or the fact that they could legally move operations out of the country post NAFTA ET AL, and still maintain their market share in the US while substantially lowering their overhead via the utilization of foreign labor rates? (NOTE: No negative impact upon the bottom line via taxation on the importation of products).

I will submit that there is NO arguing that both sides had a roll in the decline of manufacturing in this country; labor and management. IMHO both got greedy, but the government provided an escape hatch to management that was a "no brainer" from a business operations perspective. When you provide an opportunity to substantially increase the bottom line to any business, they are going to take it. Regardless of what it may mean to those who labor for them. Labor is just a tool.

yes a drop in manufacturing jobs would cause a drop in union membership but that is not the only reason. According to your graph jobs hit a peak in 1979. 6 years at least after union membership was dropping. Also looks as though the biggest drop since 1950 was around 2000, 17 years from 1973. So, while the drop in manufacturing jobs does correlate to a drop in union membership this is not the only factor involved nor the largest.

It seems to me that it is simply a majority of the people do not want to belong to unions. They see them as just as greedy and corrupt as the corporations the unions were originally formed to fight against. Just look at the right to work states. They have the lowest union membership in the US because, given a choice, people don't wish to belong to a union.

Well, as anyone who cares to investigate can see, change takes time. Its too bad that society has bred into its peoples an unwillingness to practice the patience necessary to realize and implement change. . .

It "Might" seem that way to you, but the reality is you cannot argue with hard data. . . and facts.

[The Troll]

  One more thing Palehorse, remember how the corporations in the end of the 50's started closing down the old, old business in the North East, New England and setting up shop in the antiunion South.  Then it went through New York and Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and now it's happening in the West.  All of the jobs to the Anti-union South and Mexico.  At lower wages and no benefits.

  God love these scabs and all of the good they have done for the American worker.  Nothing about the Republican free trade treaties.    brain dead. 

[Palehorse]

  One more thing Palehorse, remember how the corporations in the end of the 50's started closing down the old, old business in the North East, New England and setting up shop in the antiunion South.  Then it went through New York and Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and now it's happening in the West.  All of the jobs to the Anti-union South and Mexico.  At lower wages and no benefits.

  God love these scabs and all of the good they have done for the American worker.  Nothing about the Republican free trade treaties.    brain dead. 

When JFK sold out the textile industry in 1963 (I believe it was), that was the start of a very disturbing trend for manufacturing in this country. (Why do you think you are so hard pressed to find clothing made in the US today?)

[Henry Hawk]

I will submit that there is NO arguing that both sides had a roll in the decline of manufacturing in this country; labor and management. IMHO both got greedy, but the government provided an escape hatch to management that was a "no brainer" from a business operations perspective. When you provide an opportunity to substantially increase the bottom line to any business, they are going to take it. Regardless of what it may mean to those who labor for them. Labor is just a tool.

And THIS is what I have been saying for ever.......something HAD to be done.  The Union mentality is NOT going to create jobs in America, to where we can compete.  There has got to be a happy medium.  We have provided labor laws and minimum wages.  Regulations and taxes need to be re-visited.

We have got to figure this one out pretty quick.

[The Troll]

When JFK sold out the textile industry in 1963 (I believe it was), that was the start of a very disturbing trend for manufacturing in this country. (Why do you think you are so hard pressed to find clothing made in the US today?)

  I agree that JFK started it.  I also think that with North Carolina and the surround states being Republican and America being so strong.  We could lose a few jobs especiealy in North Carolina.  But as usual it started an avalanche that got out of control.

But as the little man with the big ears said, Periot said, "Once you sign that NAFTA, you will hear a big sucking sound of jobs leaving America."  He was sure right and I wasn't unions that did it.  All business large and small, left or were boughten out and taken to Mexico.

[Palehorse]

And THIS is what I have been saying for ever.......something HAD to be done.  The Union mentality is NOT going to create jobs in America, to where we can compete.  There has got to be a happy medium.  We have provided labor laws and minimum wages.  Regulations and taxes need to be re-visited.

We have got to figure this one out pretty quick.

At this point, unions are no longer a factor anymore. The damage is done, and BOTH sides contributed to it!

[Palehorse]

. . .  Regulations and taxes need to be re-visited.

We have got to figure this one out pretty quick.

When we tried to re-regulate the health insurance industry it gave birth to the party of no. . .

[Henry Hawk]

When we tried to re-regulate the health insurance industry it gave birth to the party of no. . .

I was referring to our manufactoring industry....

[Henry Hawk]

At this point, unions are no longer a factor anymore. The damage is done, and BOTH sides contributed to it!

THEY ARE too still a factor.....but, YES I have state several, several, several times ....BOTH sides contributed to it!