NFL Speak

[Henry Hawk]

50/50 blame on both sides of the fence in this one; and both are 100% to blame for the fleecing of the taxpayers. That crap they just pulled is salt in the gaping wound that stadium left.

I too, am pissed at what they did last week, but looking at the big picture.....if NOT for the fine managment, we could very well be the Bears or Bengals.....with humdrum seasons and hoodlums playing for us...


and btw, Irsay did NOT ask for a new stadium, the City approached him....and he divied in $100 mill for 19 days worth of it....seems VERY generous....Irsay is not a politician and had NOTHING to do with WHO else had to belly up their $$$.

Bart Peterson for starters should be hanging his head low on this....but, I fail to see how you can but much of the blame on the Colts.

[Palehorse]

I too, am pissed at what they did last week, but looking at the big picture.....if NOT for the fine managment, we could very well be the Bears or Bengals.....with humdrum seasons and hoodlums playing for us...


and btw, Irsay did NOT ask for a new stadium, the City approached him....and he divied in $100 mill for 19 days worth of it....seems VERY generous....Irsay is not a politician and had NOTHING to do with WHO else had to belly up their $$$.

Bart Peterson for starters should be hanging his head low on this....but, I fail to see how you can but much of the blame on the Colts.

Bull hockey! The Colts organization made it clear to the leadership of Indianapolis that the Dome was not cutting it and they were looking for another venue; including out of state locations. Indpls had to pony up or the Mayflower trucks were going to be scheduled in, just like in Baltimore.

Tell me you don't remember that! 

Number1: The Colts always say "they appreciate the fans", but not enough to keep them from shoving it up their kiester when it comes to revenue. Ownership knew the deal and what it meant to the fans and taxpayers, and knew all too well it was a sweet-heart deal and they grabbed it. Of course they did. And when you factor in the over runs of the entire project the Colts organization only coughed up 10% of the revenue to pay for the project, and they own the whole thing as far as revenue generation from it goes. The city gets squat, and on top of it they are still paying for the friggin dome too!

It is the same end run ploy the NFL utilizes in holding up the citizens of cities across this country, only this time the "home team" got their cake and get to eat it too.

Everybody yaps about the "multi-uses" of the facility, well the fact remains that had the Colts paid for the entire thing themselves, they'd still realize exactly what they are getting by paying for only 10% of the costs! The NFL ran their "NFL city" play on the leadership of this state/city of Indpls, then "leaked" the "leaving propaganda" to the fans to get them hyped up and emotional. The rest is history. . .

I blame the Colts, the NFL, and the leadership of this state and the city of Indianapolis. They conspired to fleece the taxpayers of nearly a billion dollars when it is all said and done, (including that stupid convention center). Between the Luke and the CC they will combine to bring about the financial ruin of the city, just watch. The CIB already cannot afford them, and the Colts yapped to the high heavens when they asked them to pony up to help make up the difference. (Despite the sweet heart deal).

It was all in the press.

[Henry Hawk]

Here is the email sent to Colts' season ticket holders:

Dear Colts Fans:

Much has been reported and communicated about the Colts over the past several months, including several statements which have been either misleading or simply untrue. We would like to set the record straight by sharing with you facts of the Colts' financial contributions to the State of Indiana and the City of Indianapolis and the club's significant investment in the building and on-going operation of Lucas Oil Stadium.

First and foremost, the Indianapolis Colts have not sought in the past, nor is the club currently seeking, any special favors from the CIB, the City of Indianapolis, or the State of Indiana. The Colts never asked for a new stadium. In 2004, the City of Indianapolis approached the Colts about the possibility of a new stadium, not the other way around. The City's need for an expanded convention center and desire to accommodate the NCAA for future Final Fours prompted its exploration of a facility to replace the RCA Dome. At no time did the Colts threaten to leave Indianapolis or otherwise "hold the city hostage."

The Colts negotiated in good faith with the State and the City and eventually entered into a development agreement with the Indiana Stadium and Convention Building Authority (ISCBA), governing the construction of Lucas Oil Stadium, and a lease with the CIB, governing the Colts' use of the stadium.

The Colts made a 30-year commitment to the community. Those written agreements, signed nearly four years ago, committed the team to this community for the next 30 years with no option to renegotiate, regardless of any financial downturns that might arise.

The Colts agreed to take the risk and responsibility to achieve financial success in Indianapolis. The new agreements also removed the financial guarantees for the Colts that existed in our RCA Dome lease that could have cost the city tens of millions of dollars on a regular basis. In essence, the risk of financial success in a small market has been shifted from the city solely to the Colts.

The Colts have been meticulous in meeting and, indeed, often exceeding the requirements of those agreements. We have contributed over $100 Million to the construction of the facility and it is simply untrue for anyone to suggest we don't have "skin in the game."

It is also important to note that, from the very beginning, Lucas Oil Stadium was designed to be a multi-use facility to accommodate many users, not just the Colts. Already, the stadium has successfully hosted many events having nothing whatsoever to do with professional football and many more are already scheduled for years to come. While we are immensely proud to be able to call Lucas Oil Stadium our home field, the fact of the matter is the Colts only use the stadium a maximum of nineteen days a year; and the facility is available for use by virtually anyone else the remaining 346 days.

Second, the Colts have been engaged in extensive dialogue, based upon facts and equity, with those leaders who are working hard to find a solution to the CIB funding shortfall. Jim Irsay has personally met with Senator Luke Kenley and Mayor Greg Ballard to discuss these matters. Our representatives have also been in frank, open, and continuing communication with the CIB and the financial leaders of the state legislature since this issue began to emerge early last winter.
Third, our understanding of the CIB's history is that the CIB's budget shortfall is neither new nor unexpected. In fact, only a relatively small portion of the predicted shortfall can be directly attributed to the increase in actual maintenance and operations expense required by Lucas Oil Stadium. What is particularly puzzling is that the shortfall appears to have only become a crisis when the CIB concluded it might be obliged to assume all the operating costs of Conseco Fieldhouse to avoid an early termination of the Pacers' lease.

Fourth, the Colts believe recent criticism of its civic involvement to be unwarranted and unfair. We are extremely proud to have one of professional sports' most comprehensive community outreach programs. While we are deeply involved statewide, we have not predicated charitable giving and civic involvement upon how much public acclaim the club gets in return. The Colts remain committed to that approach.

Fifth, the Colts' commitment to the City of Indianapolis and the State of Indiana has also included providing an exemplary football team on and off the field. The club has invested heavily in recruiting players and coaches of which Indianapolis and the State of Indiana can be proud -- on game days and all the other days they make positive contributions to our communities. There are no more positive role models than Peyton Manning, Gary Brackett, and Jeff Saturday. We believe the Colts' record in wins as well as community leadership speaks for itself. In anticipation of this weekend's NFL Draft, the Colts are preparing to make multi-year and multi-million dollar commitments to the next generation of leaders like those three.

The Colts remain optimistic that a fair and equitable solution will be found that assures the fiscal good health of the CIB, an organization that is very important to the long-term success of Indianapolis and the entire State of Indiana. We hope, though, that the public discussions of the issues will be based upon facts.

Sincerely,

The Indianapolis Colts

[Y]

Hank, since you claim you're a conservative, with all the supposed beliefs that entails, how is it you're not up in arms over all the corporate welfare sports teams - and in this specific instance, the Colts - receive?  Why is that?

[Palehorse]

Blah, blah, blah. . .

Read it when it was first sent out, and its more manure on top of the mountain. The fact is they don't tell you anything in that propaganda, and try to lay it all on the Pacers and the City. Translation? Pony up Marion county, 9 collar counties, and State of Indiana. . .

I want to know why the State didn't just enact a tax to bring the Harley Davidson manufacturing facility to Indiana from PA, and create 400-500 jobs with far less revenue than was required to build the Colts new palace and that giant dance hall?

[Henry Hawk]

Hank, since you claim you're a conservative, with all the supposed beliefs that entails, how is it you're not up in arms over all the corporate welfare sports teams - and in this specific instance, the Colts - receive?  Why is that?

who says I am not?......I am ONLY pointing out that this is JUST not Irsay's problem..........the CIC and Peterson, along with the UNION, (who got very rich off of this)....are as much if not more to blame.....Irsay is a business man....Peterson is a Politician...

I think sports teams such as the Colts and Pacers are very good for Indianapolis...without them, I think our city would suffer even more.....

the bottom line is......we AGAIN, had very poor leadership involved in making important decisions for the people.

[Y]

who says I am not?......I am ONLY pointing out that this is JUST not Irsay's problem..........the CIC and Peterson, along with the UNION, (who got very rich off of this)....are as much if not more to blame.....Irsay is a business man....Peterson is a Politician...

I think sports teams such as the Colts and Pacers are very good for Indianapolis...without them, I think our city would suffer even more.....

the bottom line is......we AGAIN, had very poor leadership involved in making important decisions for the people.

Sports in Indy are soaking the taxpayers yet you say they are 'good' for Indianapolis and without them the city would 'suffer' more?

Lessee, if we follow your logic then if the taxpayers give them more money the city would suffer less.  Have I got that right?   

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[Henry Hawk]

Sports in Indy are soaking the taxpayers yet you say they are 'good' for Indianapolis and without them the city would 'suffer' more?

Lessee, if we follow your logic then if the taxpayers give them more money the city would suffer less.  Have I got that right?   

<click!>   

you better buy yourselves some better traps cuz these things are cheap and break easy....


Again, YOU sure love to put words in my mouth......I said the sport teams are GOOD.....POOR leadership is BAD....that is ALL I have really said.....

I'm having a lot of fun watching you set your traps and they keep springing in your hand.....

[Y]

Again, YOU sure love to put words in my mouth......I said the sport teams are GOOD.....POOR leadership is BAD....that is ALL I have really said.....

I'm having a lot of fun watching you set your traps and they keep springing in your hand.....

No, here are your words:

I think sports teams such as the Colts and Pacers are very good for Indianapolis...without them, I think our city would suffer even more.....

And I pointed out: if we follow your logic then if the taxpayers give them more money the city would suffer less.

Something your words imply.

My traps are doing quite well.   

[Henry Hawk]

And I pointed out: if we follow your logic then if the taxpayers give them more money the city would suffer less.

Something your words imply.

My traps are doing quite well.   

AGAIN, you are missing my point.............the leadership made a bad deal.......the Colts, Pacers, Indians all should have POSITIVE effects on Indianapolis....this leadership has created a mess, that may never get cleaned up, without bankruptcy or worse.....raising taxes more is NOT going to fix this problem.....

[Y]

Just say it, Hank, you really didn't mean to say what you did.   

Of course, I still don't get your idea that sports teams should all have a positive effect on Indy.  If you're trying to say they have a positive to the city's financial ledger sheet, that's been hashed out here many times before and even the best research in your favor of your idea stated that it was, at best, unquantifiable.  The rest - and the majority - showed it to be of negative value.  In other words, a net loss.

[Henry Hawk]

Just say it, Hank, you really didn't mean to say what you did.   

Of course, I still don't get your idea that sports teams should all have a positive effect on Indy.  If you're trying to say they have a positive to the city's financial ledger sheet, that's been hashed out here many times before and even the best research in your favor of your idea stated that it was, at best, unquantifiable.  The rest - and the majority - showed it to be of negative value.  In other words, a net loss.

let me put it this way....the Colts and Indy was QUITE successful for years......until they wasted MILLIONS on a stadium they did NOT have to have...or at the least should have negotiated a better resolution than what we got.......

[Y]

let me put it this way....the Colts and Indy was QUITE successful for years......until they wasted MILLIONS on a stadium they did NOT have to have...or at the least should have negotiated a better resolution than what we got.......

Er, no, the Colts, being financed on the backs of the taxpayers, have always been a net loss to the taxpayers, and thus a net loss to the city - same as the Pacers etc..

And as far as a 'better deal', the only deal should have been: if you'se guys (the Colts, Pacers, etc.) are profitable businesses then you pay for your own business location.  If you're not profitable businesses, close your doors. 

Isn't that the way conservatives see it, Hank?   

<clicky, clicky!>   

[Henry Hawk]

Er, no, the Colts, being financed on the backs of the taxpayers, have always been a net loss to the taxpayers, and thus a net loss to the city - same as the Pacers etc..

And as far as a 'better deal', the only deal should have been: if you'se guys (the Colts, Pacers, etc.) are profitable businesses then you pay for your own business location.  If you're not profitable businesses, close your doors. 

Isn't that the way conservatives see it, Hank?   

<clicky, clicky!>   

Uh, NO, the Colts was NOT finaced by taxpayers........maybe the stadium, but the colts paid a set amount for it USAGE of it.....Indy opted to use it for other venues the remaining time....again NOT the Colts problems.....it is City Management problems...if THEY want a sports team in town, there is a price to pay......I say, IF they don't invest in sports teams, then this city has NOTHING to offer...and the ramifications OF NOT having a sports team goes very deep.....from restaurants, night clubs, and Hotels....the work and jobs that has been generated because of these teams has meant millions to the city....(traps are flining everywhere....empty)   

[Palehorse]

Uh, NO, the Colts was NOT finaced by taxpayers........maybe the stadium, but the colts paid a set amount for it USAGE of it.....Indy opted to use it for other venues the remaining time....again NOT the Colts problems.....it is City Management problems...if THEY want a sports team in town, there is a price to pay......I say, IF they don't invest in sports teams, then this city has NOTHING to offer...and the ramifications OF NOT having a sports team goes very deep.....from restaurants, night clubs, and Hotels....the work and jobs that has been generated because of these teams has meant millions to the city....(traps are flining everywhere....empty)   

Gosh, you drank a keg of that Kool Aid didn't you? Along with an IV or two and an enema from the sound of it.