Obama Slams Health Care Critics For Spreading "Outlandish Rumors"

[Exterminator]

Very well said, PH; you obviously have a lot more patience than I...or maybe you just enjoy 

[Palehorse]

Very well said, PH; you obviously have a lot more patience than I...or maybe you just enjoy 

Thanks. . . but I am running out of Advil! 

[Henry Hawk]

The democrats control the House and the Senate.........if the bill does not pass, don't blame the Republicans....

can you name a bill that deserves PRAISE?....

Palehorse, I would hope you know me well enough to know that I am not racially motivated....the bottom line for me is, I am anti-liberal....I want a MORE Conservative movement...

I am sure there will be some good things to happen IF this heathcare bill passes....but, to simply pass this bill without any serious debate by the people would be wrong.  With democrats in control of washington....i think, yelling and bitching at the republicans is a moot point....

and since you brought up the iraq war......i have noticed we are STILL there....i thought the dems was in a hurry to bring everyone home....

and do you REALLY believe that there will be NO taxes on ANYONE who makes less than $250,000 just because the POTUS said so?

That is it for me today....I have said my 2 cents for the day....

later.

[Bo D]

Health insurance premiums for family coverage in Indiana rose an estimated 116 percent from 2000 through 2009, according to a separate report released Wednesday by Families USA, a Washington-based consumer-advocacy group. During that same period, the median earnings of Indiana workers rose by about 15 percent.

Family coverage in Indiana now carries an average annual premium of $14,355, up from about $6,628 in 2000, the group said.

And they are going up yet again next year, with 42% of employers saying they will pass along the increase to their employees. (9%).

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS/908200447/Health+insurance+set+to+take+big+jump

But we don't need this healthcare reform bill right now. . .

I heard a report on the radio this morning that health insurance premiums are projected to hit $24,000.00 for the average family by 2020 if nothing is done.

[Bo D]

I found a link to that report I heard about. I guess my memory isn't working too well yet.

It wasn't 2020, it was 2018. And it wasn't $24,000, it was $25,000.

Awww..crap. Here ... just read the damn thing yourself.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

"Employer and Employee Health Insurance Costs

Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 119 percent.

Employees have seen their share of job-based coverage increase at nearly the same rate during this period jumping from $1,543 to $3,354.

The cumulative increase in employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have raised at four times the rate of inflation and wage increases during last decade.  This increase has made it much more difficult for businesses to continue to provide coverage to their employees and for those workers to afford coverage themselves.

    * The average employer-sponsored premium for a family of four costs close to $13,000 a year, and the employee foots about 30 percent of this cost.
Health insurance costs are the fastest growing expense for employers.  Employer health insurance costs overtook profits in 2008, and the gap grows steadily.
    * Total health insurance costs for employers could reach nearly $850 billion by 2019.  Individual and family spending will jump considerably from $326 billion in 2009 to $550 billion in 2019.
    * The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that job-based health insurance could increase 100 percent over the next decade.  Employer-based family insurance costs for a family of four will reach nearly $25,000 per year by 2018 absent health care reform."

[Palehorse]

The democrats control the House and the Senate.........if the bill does not pass, don't blame the Republicans....

No, I'll just blame the people that are so filled with hate and sour grapes that they spoke before thinking. . .

can you name a bill that deserves PRAISE?....

Yes, this one. Change we NEED - now. Not 10 years from now.

Palehorse, I would hope you know me well enough to know that I am not racially motivated....the bottom line for me is, I am anti-liberal....I want a MORE Conservative movement...

There is a time for diplomacy and a time for action. I find it completely unacceptable to stall any longer on this vitally important issue. It should have been initiated while Clinton was in office, and he tried. One would think congress would have exercised a little initiative in the subsequent decade and proactively addressed it. But hey, they'd have to do some work then. . .

I am sure there will be some good things to happen IF this heathcare bill passes....but, to simply pass this bill without any serious debate by the people would be wrong.  With democrats in control of washington....i think, yelling and bitching at the republicans is a moot point....

What the last decade hasn't been long enough? Moreover, why haven't our congressional representatives been doing something about this sinc ethe Clinton administration brought it up back then? Answer: Because these monster insurance companies have been lining their pockets to keep them from it. They have the long green to do it and have been spoon feeding them the same crap they are now feeding the media and people who oppose this bill.

Stop drinking their kool aid and consider the good points in this bill! Focusing on the lies and deceptions blinds you to what is right, and there is a LOT right in this bill!

and since you brought up the iraq war......i have noticed we are STILL there....i thought the dems was in a hurry to bring everyone home....

Wow. . . even more irony. You preach a conservative approach that will kill millions on healthcare reform and then demand quick action that will also result in the deaths of millions. . . You working for the angel of death or something?

and do you REALLY believe that there will be NO taxes on ANYONE who makes less than $250,000 just because the POTUS said so?

Yes. And until it is proven otherwise I shall continue to believe it. Why shouldn't I?

The fact is club fed already knows that taxes are going to increase at the state and local levels for the middle class folks, and the tit's going dry there anyway. They have to, and the stimulus funding in part is intended to delay that for as long as possible for the middle class.

This bill is going to be utilized to increase the burden upon those making 250k and up, to validate the action even though they were going to do it whether the bill passes or not.

[me]

That did not answer my question which was this:

Quote from: me on August 19, 2009, 04:16:17 PM

    You know it's odd.  I didn't support Hillary's bill which wasn't near as encompassing as this one, or some of Bush's health care reforms but I wasn't called selfish, a liar, or told I was ignorant, a racist, a hate monger, selfish, or any of the other things that are being said by the liberals now about anyone who disagrees with congress or the president. What is so different?  Why are things getting to the point where no one can disagree now without that happening.   
    Could someone please explain that without all the name calling.  It appears to me to be divide and conquer because that seems to be what is happening lately.  Shout down and belittle the opposition until they give in or give up. Stand back and look at the whole picture not just your little safety zone of which ever side you happen to be on.

How yah like it?

Name one thing, just one, that any of you have supported since this POTUS took the oath. Let me help you; "There isn't anything"!  Nothing but opposition since January, and in fact the negativity started the day after the election. I find it amazing to see how staunch steadfast support was exhibited while the Chimp was in office, and he was spending just as much as the new guy is. The difference? The new guy's a democrat.

I never raised the spector of racism, but now that you've brought it up I really wonder just how much that is impacting your decision making process? (Rhetorical, but if you insist we can go down that path. I just prefer to stay focused at this point).

You and your ilk have been too busy looking for something negative to wail about since the election, and it hasn't stopped since. It seems to have become an unhealthy obsession for each one of you and is so all-encompassing as to blind you to even those things that are negatively impacting your life the most. Literally unhealthy.

What do I mean? You stated yesterday that you have no healthcare insurance, well Missy you are just a heart attack, stroke, hip replacement, etc. away from becoming one of those people the POTUS is trying to get congress to protect! Yet, you spit upon him and fight tooth and nail to oppose anything he puts forth.

This bill would make your life easier, and require health care companies to COVER all diagnostic testing and stop applying those charges toward a policy deductible, and make said deductibles more reasonable as opposed to 2k or more! (I'm not covered by any policy!) But you would be once this bill passes. Automatically.

"Their going to tax" - Yes. Those making 250k and above will see an increase in taxes. Employers providing coverage that does NOT meet the federal requirements will be taxed per the rates contained within the bill. This serves as a financial incentive to employers to comply with the federal policy and punishes them if they do not.

"But, we need to go over this bill. . .blah, blah, blah!"

Look, show me ONE bill congress has passed in the last 3 decades that was perfect upon its inception. Just one. (Hint: No such animal). The reality is we have to start somewhere and delaying this thing until congress can go over each and every line in it and explain it to every single one of you to your satisfaction will lead to a decade of congressional waffling and the end result will be congress bowing to the special interest groups, in this case the insurance industry.  In the meantime millions of us will be financially ruined, or die due to untreated illness, or both. What purpose will that serve? Shall we go ahead and kill millions of our fellow Americans in order to allow each one of them to comprehend what "as outlined within sub section 2.19 item 4" means? And in the end do what we should be doing today, only 10 years too late?

The lion's share of you in opposition to this bill will not accept or even consider empirical evidence supporting the need for this bill. In fact, most of you ignore the fact that a lot of the things used to demonstrate why this reform bill should be passed are biting you in the ass right here and right now. Instead, you choose to believe lies, rumors, and innuendo; eating up the fear-mongering messages and spewing them as truth. Even when they are proven to be lies you persist. And you insist upon perfection from this POTUS, despite the fact the chimp was never ever near that idealistic achievement.

The irony surrounding the fact that so many of you were so willing to bitch slap Iraq and couldn't wait to put our men and women into the line of fire, in order to crack skulls and spend billions in the process; never one time stopping to hear those asking for diplomacy, perfection, and accountability then, and now asking for that very thing, is astounding! Then there's the fact that 90% of you would financially and physically benefit from the passing of this legislation, yet you squall against it like a cat with its tail under a rocker. Man, if that doesn't scream with irony I don't know what does. I'd rather spend a billion dollars taking care of my fellow Americans here at home, than chasing mirages in the litterbox of the middle east oil fields, despite your squalling.

"Oh, it's going to fall upon the shoulders of the middle class". - How many times does the POTUS have to say those making 250k and above will shoulder the burden, along with non-compliant companies? Just because the shrubs said it and lied does not mean this POTUS is not telling the truth. But you act upon the assumption that he is. . .

You will not or are unwilling to listen to the voices of reason and have failed to acknowledge one single thing that supports the need for this change; above and beyond acceptable limitations. The only thing you seem to respond to is the very thing you spew out - negativity. . .

And you've known me long enough to know if you spoon me bullshit I'll shovel it right back at you!

[Bo D]

That did not answer my question which was this:

Could someone please explain that without all the name calling.  It appears to me to be divide and conquer because that seems to be what is happening lately.  Shout down and belittle the opposition until they give in or give up.

I call it the Rush Limbaugh tactic.

[Exterminator]

See what I mean, PH?  Nothing new or of any substance...just the same old BS rhetoric over and over.

[Palehorse]

That did not answer my question which was this:

Same answer - I just chose to edit out the flotsam in the previously quoted inquiry. . .

How yah like it?

Name one thing, just one, that any of you have supported since this POTUS took the oath. Let me help you; "There isn't anything"!  Nothing but opposition since January, and in fact the negativity started the day after the election. I find it amazing to see how staunch steadfast support was exhibited while the Chimp was in office, and he was spending just as much as the new guy is. The difference? The new guy's a democrat.

I never raised the spector of racism, but now that you've brought it up I really wonder just how much that is impacting your decision making process? (Rhetorical, but if you insist we can go down that path. I just prefer to stay focused at this point).

You and your ilk have been too busy looking for something negative to wail about since the election, and it hasn't stopped since. It seems to have become an unhealthy obsession for each one of you and is so all-encompassing as to blind you to even those things that are negatively impacting your life the most. Literally unhealthy.

What do I mean? You stated yesterday that you have no healthcare insurance, well Missy you are just a heart attack, stroke, hip replacement, etc. away from becoming one of those people the POTUS is trying to get congress to protect! Yet, you spit upon him and fight tooth and nail to oppose anything he puts forth.

This bill would make your life easier, and require health care companies to COVER all diagnostic testing and stop applying those charges toward a policy deductible, and make said deductibles more reasonable as opposed to 2k or more! (I'm not covered by any policy!) But you would be once this bill passes. Automatically.

"Their going to tax" - Yes. Those making 250k and above will see an increase in taxes. Employers providing coverage that does NOT meet the federal requirements will be taxed per the rates contained within the bill. This serves as a financial incentive to employers to comply with the federal policy and punishes them if they do not.

"But, we need to go over this bill. . .blah, blah, blah!"

Look, show me ONE bill congress has passed in the last 3 decades that was perfect upon its inception. Just one. (Hint: No such animal). The reality is we have to start somewhere and delaying this thing until congress can go over each and every line in it and explain it to every single one of you to your satisfaction will lead to a decade of congressional waffling and the end result will be congress bowing to the special interest groups, in this case the insurance industry.  In the meantime millions of us will be financially ruined, or die due to untreated illness, or both. What purpose will that serve? Shall we go ahead and kill millions of our fellow Americans in order to allow each one of them to comprehend what "as outlined within sub section 2.19 item 4" means? And in the end do what we should be doing today, only 10 years too late?

The lion's share of you in opposition to this bill will not accept or even consider empirical evidence supporting the need for this bill. In fact, most of you ignore the fact that a lot of the things used to demonstrate why this reform bill should be passed are biting you in the ass right here and right now. Instead, you choose to believe lies, rumors, and innuendo; eating up the fear-mongering messages and spewing them as truth. Even when they are proven to be lies you persist. And you insist upon perfection from this POTUS, despite the fact the chimp was never ever near that idealistic achievement.

The irony surrounding the fact that so many of you were so willing to bitch slap Iraq and couldn't wait to put our men and women into the line of fire, in order to crack skulls and spend billions in the process; never one time stopping to hear those asking for diplomacy, perfection, and accountability then, and now asking for that very thing, is astounding! Then there's the fact that 90% of you would financially and physically benefit from the passing of this legislation, yet you squall against it like a cat with its tail under a rocker. Man, if that doesn't scream with irony I don't know what does. I'd rather spend a billion dollars taking care of my fellow Americans here at home, than chasing mirages in the litterbox of the middle east oil fields, despite your squalling.

"Oh, it's going to fall upon the shoulders of the middle class". - How many times does the POTUS have to say those making 250k and above will shoulder the burden, along with non-compliant companies? Just because the shrubs said it and lied does not mean this POTUS is not telling the truth. But you act upon the assumption that he is. . .

You will not or are unwilling to listen to the voices of reason and have failed to acknowledge one single thing that supports the need for this change; above and beyond acceptable limitations. The only thing you seem to respond to is the very thing you spew out - negativity. . .

And you've known me long enough to know if you spoon me bullshit I'll shovel it right back at you!

Apparently you cannot digest my answers any better than you can the various versions of the bills within the links previously provided. Perhaps we should ask congress to debate my answer?

See what I mean, PH?  Nothing new or of any substance...just the same old BS rhetoric over and over.

Yes I do! 

[me]

"Their going to tax" - Yes. Those making 250k and above will see an increase in taxes. Employers providing coverage that does NOT meet the federal requirements will be taxed per the rates contained within the bill. This serves as a financial incentive to employers to comply with the federal policy and punishes them if they do not.

"Oh, it's going to fall upon the shoulders of the middle class". - How many times does the POTUS have to say those making 250k and above will shoulder the burden, along with non-compliant companies? Just because the shrubs said it and lied does not mean this POTUS is not telling the truth. But you act upon the assumption that he is. . .

Ok, in regard to the tax thing.  It isn't only the income tax that will be raised on the affluent but, as you have seen, there will also be a tax increase in goods which will hit everyone not just the affluent and will hurt the little guy even more.  You can't just think about the income tax here.  Also Bush's tax cut will fall off next year and that will be on the little guy too not just the affluent who didn't get it in the first place.   I would imagine those who don't pay taxes will not be getting their $300 earned income credit any longer which is going to hurt them.  The VAT is still being knocked around which would be 25% at least and that is on top of state sales tax, who is that going to hurt the worst?  That is on food too if you'd care to go read about it.  You can't just look at the income tax part of the equation. 

This bill would make your life easier, and require health care companies to COVER all diagnostic testing and stop applying those charges toward a policy deductible, and make said deductibles more reasonable as opposed to 2k or more! (I'm not covered by any policy!) But you would be once this bill passes. Automatically.

What health care company?  Private ones won't stick around because they're not going to be able to make any money so it will be a government ran health care company which will decide if you should have the testing or the treatment and that could be just as bad or worse than the private ones.

Look, show me ONE bill congress has passed in the last 3 decades that was perfect upon its inception. Just one. (Hint: No such animal). The reality is we have to start somewhere and delaying this thing until congress can go over each and every line in it and explain it to every single one of you to your satisfaction will lead to a decade of congressional waffling and the end result will be congress bowing to the special interest groups, in this case the insurance industry.  In the meantime millions of us will be financially ruined, or die due to untreated illness, or both. What purpose will that serve? Shall we go ahead and kill millions of our fellow Americans in order to allow each one of them to comprehend what "as outlined within sub section 2.19 item 4" means? And in the end do what we should be doing today, only 10 years too late?

Speaking of special interest groups who would profit.  David Axelrod ring a bell?
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/19/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5253089.shtml

The irony surrounding the fact that so many of you were so willing to bitch slap Iraq and couldn't wait to put our men and women into the line of fire, in order to crack skulls and spend billions in the process; never one time stopping to hear those asking for diplomacy, perfection, and accountability then, and now asking for that very thing, is astounding! Then there's the fact that 90% of you would financially and physically benefit from the passing of this legislation, yet you squall against it like a cat with its tail under a rocker. Man, if that doesn't scream with irony I don't know what does. I'd rather spend a billion dollars taking care of my fellow Americans here at home, than chasing mirages in the litterbox of the middle east oil fields, despite your squalling.

They, the terrorists, quit attacking us here didn't they? 

[Palehorse]

Ok, in regard to the tax thing.  It isn't only the income tax that will be raised on the affluent but, as you have seen, there will also be a tax increase in goods which will hit everyone not just the affluent and will hurt the little guy even more.  You can't just think about the income tax here.  Also Bush's tax cut will fall off next year and that will be on the little guy too not just the affluent who didn't get it in the first place.   I would imagine those who don't pay taxes will not be getting their $300 earned income credit any longer which is going to hurt them.  The VAT is still being knocked around which would be 25% at least and that is on top of state sales tax, who is that going to hurt the worst?  That is on food too if you'd care to go read about it.  You can't just look at the income tax part of the equation. 
What health care company?  Private ones won't stick around because they're not going to be able to make any money so it will be a government ran health care company which will decide if you should have the testing or the treatment and that could be just as bad or worse than the private ones.
Speaking of special interest groups who would profit.  David Axelrod ring a bell?
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/19/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5253089.shtml
They, the terrorists, quit attacking us here didn't they?

VAT applies to businesses and presently is being utilized within European and other foreign countries as a means of eliminating the sales tax cheating. It is going to impact business if and when it ever passes, which I highly doubt is going to happen given the current flight of manufacturing from US soil. A red herring surrounding healthcare reform so why are you raising this here??

The state level increases in tax rates have nothing to do with the federal government, nor healthcare. Again, off topic with the singular exception that the federal government recognized this would become a very impactive situation for the average American and so is undertaking efforts to shift the burden rate upon those making 250k or more per year in AGI.

Look around. See all those big buildings and vast tracts of prime real estate? Who do you think holds the titles to those things. In a lot of cases heath insurance companies. Now, do you really think they're going to just pull up stakes and liquidate that easily? Not when they're sitting on the golden goose called healthcare insurance! It's been popping out golden eggs in the form of our premiums, and application of charges toward exorbitant deductible rates for a very long time now. They can absorb a hit, in fact a sustained hit, for quite some time to come. You need to investigate just how much that multi billion dollar sector of the business has been generating for these entities at the expense of American health and on our dime!

[Exterminator]

See what I mean, PH?  Read the last statement in the above 12:17 post.  Despite absolute and incontrovertable evidence to the contrary, some people still believe that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq.  How can you even begin to address such ignorance and what makes you think it will do any good?  The rest of the so-called "facts" in that post aren't any better...don't waste your time.

[me]

By Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 27, 2009

With budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax.
This Story

      Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look
   
      Special Report: Health-Care Reform

Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax -- called a value-added tax, or VAT -- has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity.

At a White House conference earlier this year on the government's budget problems, a roomful of tax experts pleaded with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to consider a VAT. A recent flurry of books and papers on the subject is attracting genuine, if furtive, interest in Congress. And last month, after wrestling with the White House over the massive deficits projected under Obama's policies, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee declared that a VAT should be part of the debate.

"There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said in an interview. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."

A VAT is a tax on the transfer of goods and services that ultimately is borne by the consumer. Highly visible, it would increase the cost of just about everything, from a carton of eggs to a visit with a lawyer. It is also hugely regressive, falling heavily on the poor. But VAT advocates say those negatives could be offset by using the proceeds to pay for health care for every American -- a tangible benefit that would be highly valuable to low-income families.

Liberals dispute that notion. "You could pay for it regressively and have people at the bottom come out better off -- maybe. Or you could pay for it progressively and they'd come out a lot better off," said Bob McIntyre, director of the nonprofit Citizens for Tax Justice, which has a health financing plan that targets corporations and the rich.

A White House official said a VAT is "unlikely to be in the mix" as a means to pay for health-care reform. "While we do not want to rule any credible idea in or out as we discuss the way forward with Congress, the VAT tax, in particular, is popular with academics but highly controversial with policymakers," said Kenneth Baer, a spokesman for White House Budget Director Peter Orszag.
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Still, Orszag has hired a prominent VAT advocate to advise him on health care: Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel and author of the 2008 book "Health Care, Guaranteed." Meanwhile, former Federal Reserve chairman Paul A. Volcker, chairman of a task force Obama assigned to study the tax system, has expressed at least tentative support for a VAT.

Rest of the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/26/AR2009052602909.html

[Palehorse]

See what I mean, PH?  Read the last statement in the above 12:17 post.  Despite absolute and incontrovertable evidence to the contrary, some people still believe that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq.  How can you even begin to address such ignorance and what makes you think it will do any good?  The rest of the so-called "facts" in that post aren't any better...don't waste your time.

Cripes. I see exactly! 

Doom and gloom because a democrat, who happens to want to give every consideration to every option by exercising due diligence, is in the white house. . .

Nope. . . I am through with this. See yah in the soup line!