Public Unions & Collective Bargaining Thread....right or wrong?

[Henry Hawk]

If logic was at all involved here we would NOT be in the mess we are in now....

Logic left the trainstation years ago....I think, thanks to the tea party movement....logic is making a return....

[Palehorse]

If logic was at all involved here we would NOT be in the mess we are in now....

Logic left the trainstation years ago....I think, thanks to the tea party movement....logic is making a return....

Again. . . speechless. . .

I cannot BEGIN to understand the thought process that brought you to such a conclusion. . .Nor am I sure I even want to acknowledge that it would exist; for doing so would mean the abjectness of millions of years of evolution. . .

[Nighthawk]

Circular logic. . . Wow. . .

I will admit one thing though; it is going to be amusing to see how you folks spin this when the private sector demands the very same "concessions" and get it. And don't think they won't.

They've got 99% of government on their payroll, and the SCOTUS as well. . .

You already know I don't like the private sector unions either. This is because I think they have WAY too much power.

Now, if they could figure out a way to neuter these guys and get them back to what they originally stood for then I would probably support unions.

Maybe get rid of the huge, national unions and let each company/factory's employees create their own mini-unions that bargain with the local management for what is best for both the company and the employees. No union dues, no big union bosses getting rich off the employees and less possibility for corruption.

[Palehorse]

. . .

Maybe get rid of the huge, national unions and let each company/factory's employees create their own mini-unions that bargain with the local management for what is best for both the company and the employees. No union dues, no big union bosses getting rich off the employees and less possibility for corruption.

Again. . . speechless. . .

I cannot BEGIN to understand the thought process that brought you to such a conclusion. . .Nor am I sure I even want to acknowledge that it would exist; for doing so would mean the abjectness of millions of years of evolution. . .

Yeah. . . as if such would carry any kind of sway or fair bargaining power against a phalanx of corporate lawyers and the mega-corporation. . . 

My but you guys are so full of yourselves as to project the endorsement of the delusional state as a desirable one! 

Clearly neither one of you have been corporately raped and are both virgins. But not to worry, your time approaches and that right soon! (Even if you own your own business).

[Nighthawk]

Yeah. . . as if such would carry any kind of sway or fair bargaining power against a phalanx of corporate lawyers and the mega-corporation. . . 

My but you guys are so full of yourselves as to project the endorsement of the delusional state as a desirable one! 

Clearly neither one of you have been corporately raped and are both virgins. But not to worry, your time approaches and that right soon! (Even if you own your own business).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have seen first hand what unions can do to people and businesses. One union stole my money under the guise of union dues and flat told me they wouldn't represent me in any manner. One kept rotten employees employed so the company couldn't produce a good product and the factory closed as a result. Neither one of these unions did me or any of the 1000+ other people any good.

Apparently there are two choices left. Either drastically cut union power so corporations can become competitive again or completely do away with unions.

[Henry Hawk]

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes/117764004.html?blog=y

Please don't say this is just what you get when you stick your arm in a lions den...

This is the ruination of America when, the "teamster" mentality starts to try to run this country....it is THIS type of crap that makes me sick to my stomach....when a Governor, who was "elected" by the people to carry out a campaign promise, and does so...then our public get's this kind of threat?

I can say with all my heart, I HATE UNIONS!!! Now more than ever...they are SCUM!! at least the people that are attached to this THREAT!!!

I say it is go time!!!!

That's a nice business you got there. Pity if anything were to happen to it if, say, you didn't toe the line and denounce Governor Walker like we're asking nice-like.
March 10, 2011 Mr. Tom Ellis, President Marshall & Ilsley Corporation 770 N. Water Street Milwaukee, WI 53202 SENT VIA FASCIMILE AND REGULAR MAIL Dear Mr. Ellis: As you undoubtedly know, Governor Walker recently proposed a "budget adjustment bill" to eviscerate public employees' right to collectively bargain in Wisconsin. ..   As you also know, Scott Walker did not campaign on this issue when he ran for office. If he had, we are confident that you would not be listed among his largest contributors. As such, we are contacting you now to request your support.   The undersigned groups would like your company to publicly oppose Governor Walker's efforts to virtually eliminate collective bargaining for public employees in Wisconsin. While we appreciate that you may need some time to consider this request, we ask for your response by March 17. In the event that you do not respond to this request by that date, we will assume that you stand with Governor Walker and against the teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, and other dedicated public employees who serve our communities.  In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining, please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table. Wisconsin's public employee unions serve to protect and promote equality and fairness in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that ideal.   In the event you would like to discuss this matter further, please contact the executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Jim Palmer, at 608.273.3840.   Thank you in advance for your consideration. We look forward to hearing from you soon.   James L. Palmer, Executive Director Wisconsin Professional Police Association Mahlon Mitchell,President Professional Professional Fire Fighters Jim Conway, President International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311 John Matthews, Execuctive Director Madison Teachers, Inc. Keith Patt, Executive Director Green Bay Education Association Bob Richardson,  President Dane County Deputy Sheriffs Association Dan Frei, Prersident Madison Professional Police Officers Association

[Y]

Why don't you 'Hawk' brothers just admit you don't know shite from shinola about either unions or contract law and that your 'opinions' about both are nothing more than your prejudices based in ignorance?

Y'all could at least be truthful about things.   

[Henry Hawk]

Why don't you 'Hawk' brothers just admit you don't know shite from shinola about either unions or contract law and that your 'opinions' about both are nothing more than your prejudices based in ignorance?

Y'all could at least be truthful about things.   

and THIS is why I have no time to waste here....how do you argue with this?

[Nighthawk]

Why don't you 'Hawk' brothers just admit you don't know shite from shinola about either unions or contract law and that your 'opinions' about both are nothing more than your prejudices based in ignorance?

Y'all could at least be truthful about things.   

This from the guy who is going to "show us the error of our ways"?????   

[Y]

and THIS is why I have no time to waste here....how do you argue with this?

You can't because it's obviously the truth.

You and your brother 'Hawk', from your own words:

1)  have given anecdotal crapola - yes crapola, because none of it can be demonstrably proved true or false, and that makes them worthless as both evidence or a basis to build on, but it is evidence of y'all's prejudices.

2)  have shown you don't understand how unions work by blatantly and deliberately ignoring the fact that all union contract agreements with companies must have two agreeing parties at the time of signing - also evidence that neither of you understand contract law - in order to be valid.

3)  have shown that you don't understand contract law by pretending contracts aren't negotiated between companies and unions, and ignoring the fact that contracts are legal instruments - Gov. Walker and the WS. State Legislature have stepped in deep doo-doo by trying to circumvent legal and binding contracts negotiated between the unions and the state entities with legislative action.

[me]

Unions use bullying tactics to get their way and it is showing up more and more each day.  Look what's happening in Wi.  People are being bused in by the union to cause disruption and chaos and bully to get what they want.  The union is trying to bully Wal-Mart into signing with them.  Unions bully employees into agreeing to fighting to get them in the work place.  Yes, companies sign contracts but how many are signed under duress?

[followsthewolf]

Signed under duress?????

REALLY????

Imagine that. Whoda thunk??

And I'm sure all these wonderful altruistic corporations would just freely heap raises and benefits on the employees that make the corporations rich, without being under duress.

It's just the nature of those corporations to be generous with their huge profits and share them with the peons that work for them.

Oh, ummm.....right after the CEO and CFO and......whoever else up there.......buys their 13th home on the Riviera for $4.8 million.

OK. Nice fantasy. Let's try a dose of reality now.

[Nighthawk]

You can't because it's obviously the truth.

You and your brother 'Hawk', from your own words:

1)  have given anecdotal crapola - yes crapola, because none of it can be demonstrably proved true or false, and that makes them worthless as both evidence or a basis to build on, but it is evidence of y'all's prejudices.

I could care less if you believe what I say. Dismissing it out of hand shows that you are stuck in your own little world and nothing will sway you from it. Besides, if you would care to look at my posts I have presented verifiable facts.

2)  have shown you don't understand how unions work by blatantly and deliberately ignoring the fact that all union contract agreements with companies must have two agreeing parties at the time of signing - also evidence that neither of you understand contract law - in order to be valid.

Show me exactly where I 'ignore' that a contract is an agreement between two parties. In fact I do believe that just a few posts ago I acknowledged this fact.

3)  have shown that you don't understand contract law by pretending contracts aren't negotiated between companies and unions, and ignoring the fact that contracts are legal instruments - Gov. Walker and the WS. State Legislature have stepped in deep doo-doo by trying to circumvent legal and binding contracts negotiated between the unions and the state entities with legislative action.

Actually, I haven't read Wisconsin's law yet but I was told the same about Indiana's law and it was not true. Indiana's law would not effect any contracts that are in effect on or before June 30, 2011. I would bet that Wisconsin's is the same. These are law makers and they would NOT do anything that blatantly illegal as to jeopardize the law being struck down on something that simple.

[Palehorse]

. . .
Actually, I haven't read Wisconsin's law yet but I was told the same about Indiana's law and it was not true. Indiana's law would not effect any contracts that are in effect on or before June 30, 2011. I would bet that Wisconsin's is the same. These are law makers and they would NOT do anything that blatantly illegal as to jeopardize the law being struck down on something that simple.

Wisconsin's law was the basis for my position until Indiana was interjected. . .

[The Troll]

Unions use bullying tactics to get their way and it is showing up more and more each day.  Look what's happening in Wi.  People are being bused in by the union to cause disruption and chaos and bully to get what they want.  The union is trying to bully Wal-Mart into signing with them.  Unions bully employees into agreeing to fighting to get them in the work place.  Yes, companies sign contracts but how many are signed under duress?

  Well, for one thing I am tired arguing with a bunch of total dumbasses about the unions.  For two years I worked for a glass bottle maker and the GBBA union and 38 years for Ford Motor Co. under the UAW.  All good unions.  I know what a good union is.

  I am tired of hearing from Scabs who know nothing about the unions.  "ME" first husband an Iron Worker made good money and had good benefits and "ME" you know ;she sucked all all that she could out of that.

  Then we have the Fhawk boys.   Who fathers were a blue collar kind of a guys and their boys where raised off the milk of the union benefits.  Sucking the lives out of their old dad's.

  I would like to hear from their dads on how they feel about the unions and I don't see how these baby boys are such scabs.

  With thousand of workers in the streets wanting their union freedoms, we have these punks screaming.  We want these over paid, rich, with millionair's benefits teachers to lose their freedom of collective bargaining.  Go figure.  :jesters:

  I done arguing with you scabs, you absolutely know nothing.