Public Unions & Collective Bargaining Thread....right or wrong?

[Palehorse]

Unionized labor is something that I'm very familiar with because of what it has done to my father. For the better part of three decades he has been a union iron worker. He has always been my hero for the way he provided for our family and he is the example I follow with my own family. In the past few years I noticed a change in my father's attitude toward his job. He used to believe the union was what kept him in his current job, but now he now despises it.  The union is taking care of the younger, non-experienced people who have been hired at almost the same pay rate that he earns. He also notices that these same new hires have little work ethic and even less ambition. They refuse to work overtime unless mandatory, show up to work late and hung over, and constantly leave an hour early. And yet with all this, when it comes time for yearly wage increases, they are rewarded with the same pay increase. When I ask my father what the union has done for him, his reply is "Nothing. Bob (his boss) has always been very good to us with raises, benefits, and contract renegotiations. He even manages our pension fund himself." My father has spoken of attempts in the past to oust the union. Of course these attempts were met with harsh critcism, usually from the younger employees. Stories like this are what truly boils my blood. In my humble opinion, I feel that today's organized labor movement has done nothing to protect worker's rights, but everything to promote laziness and incompetency.

My father says that my uncle who is in a Mechanics Union has brainwashed him into thinking 3 things.

1. Someone else "Up top" is holding him back.

2. That only the union can help him find another job and stay employed.

3. He only has to give 50% effort and blame the other 50% he's not giving on somebody else.

Thanks for the anecdote. . .

[Henry Hawk]

Thanks for the anecdote. . .

   yeah God forbid another person should give his/her opinon on here that don't agree with the masses...

[me]

Unionized labor is something that I'm very familiar with because of what it has done to my father. For the better part of three decades he has been a union iron worker. He has always been my hero for the way he provided for our family and he is the example I follow with my own family. In the past few years I noticed a change in my father's attitude toward his job. He used to believe the union was what kept him in his current job, but now he now despises it.  The union is taking care of the younger, non-experienced people who have been hired at almost the same pay rate that he earns. He also notices that these same new hires have little work ethic and even less ambition. They refuse to work overtime unless mandatory, show up to work late and hung over, and constantly leave an hour early. And yet with all this, when it comes time for yearly wage increases, they are rewarded with the same pay increase. When I ask my father what the union has done for him, his reply is "Nothing. Bob (his boss) has always been very good to us with raises, benefits, and contract renegotiations. He even manages our pension fund himself." My father has spoken of attempts in the past to oust the union. Of course these attempts were met with harsh critcism, usually from the younger employees. Stories like this are what truly boils my blood. In my humble opinion, I feel that today's organized labor movement has done nothing to protect worker's rights, but everything to promote laziness and incompetency.

My father says that my uncle who is in a Mechanics Union has brainwashed him into thinking 3 things.

1. Someone else "Up top" is holding him back.

2. That only the union can help him find another job and stay employed.

3. He only has to give 50% effort and blame the other 50% he's not giving on somebody else.

Unfortunately that's typical of the union employee today.  Are you talking an in shop Ironworker or a construction Ironworker?

[Palehorse]

   yeah God forbid another person should give his/her opinon on here that don't agree with the masses...

I certainly have not made any statement that could even remotely be considered as attempting to "gate" anyone's opinion around here; except perhaps by the most extreme of spin-mastering amongst the membership.

What I do with everyone here is expect that if they hold an opinion that is opposite those of anyone else, that they support and defend that position. Period. I dare ask questions designed to clarify/explore and now you are going to hold my feet to the fire for doing so? Phhhht!

I do not suffer fools, idiots, zealots, nor trolls lightly, and I will call them out every time I see them.

[Palehorse]

Unfortunately that's typical of the union employee today.  Are you talking an in shop Ironworker or a construction Ironworker?

Here we go. . . 

Have anything besides an amusing anecdote to support that statement?

[The Troll]

Unionized labor is something that I'm very familiar with because of what it has done to my father. For the better part of three decades he has been a union iron worker. He has always been my hero for the way he provided for our family and he is the example I follow with my own family. In the past few years I noticed a change in my father's attitude toward his job. He used to believe the union was what kept him in his current job, but now he now despises it.  The union is taking care of the younger, non-experienced people who have been hired at almost the same pay rate that he earns. He also notices that these same new hires have little work ethic and even less ambition. They refuse to work overtime unless mandatory, show up to work late and hung over, and constantly leave an hour early. And yet with all this, when it comes time for yearly wage increases, they are rewarded with the same pay increase. When I ask my father what the union has done for him, his reply is "Nothing. Bob (his boss) has always been very good to us with raises, benefits, and contract renegotiations. He even manages our pension fund himself." My father has spoken of attempts in the past to oust the union. Of course these attempts were met with harsh critcism, usually from the younger employees. Stories like this are what truly boils my blood. In my humble opinion, I feel that today's organized labor movement has done nothing to protect worker's rights, but everything to promote laziness and incompetency.

My father says that my uncle who is in a Mechanics Union has brainwashed him into thinking 3 things.

1. Someone else "Up top" is holding him back.

2. That only the union can help him find another job and stay employed.

3. He only has to give 50% effort and blame the other 50% he's not giving on somebody else.

  Why would I expect anything less from Doc.  We heard all of his religious crap and now we  hear all of his anti-union talk.  We all know that his dad would have got all that good  pay and benefits without the union.   

                                                                      

[Henry Hawk]

I certainly have not made any statement that could even remotely be considered as attempting to "gate" anyone's opinion around here; except perhaps by the most extreme of spin-mastering amongst the membership.

What I do with everyone here is expect that if they hold an opinion that is opposite those of anyone else, that they support and defend that position. Period. I dare ask questions designed to clarify/explore and now you are going to hold my feet to the fire for doing so? Phhhht!

I do not suffer fools, idiots, zealots, nor trolls lightly, and I will call them out every time I see them.

you sure don't seem to mind what the Troll does...he can't support squat he says....just have to take his word for it...

[Palehorse]

you sure don't seem to mind what the Troll does...he can't support squat he says....just have to take his word for it...

At least he sticks around to defend his positions.

And exercising a little personal initiative and conducting research to disprove or prove his positions is up to him. . . and the opposition.  Personally I've found it a bit of a challenge to dispute his positions, but have pointed them out when I've come across accredited information that opposes his views. . .

Your personal objections with his approach or style are not an issue for me.

[Henry Hawk]

At least he sticks around to defend his positions.

And exercising a little personal initiative and conducting research to disprove or prove his positions is up to him. . . and the opposition.  Personally I've found it a bit of a challenge to dispute his positions, but have pointed them out when I've come across accredited information that opposes his views. . .

Your personal objections with his approach or style are not an issue for me.

  okay

[Henry Hawk]

Here is a great explanation of why I am agains PUBLIC Unions....


http://www.youtube.com/v/QyxuUjgHkgs

[me]

Here we go. . . 

Have anything besides an amusing anecdote to support that statement?

Call it an amusing anecdote if you wish it's pure fact.  When people who work for a union start talking about how lazy the workers have gotten that's bad. 

[Palehorse]

Call it an amusing anecdote if you wish it's pure fact.  When people who work for a union start talking about how lazy the workers have gotten that's bad.

That's what I thought. . .

[Henry Hawk]

18 Republican senators from Wisconsin report getting death threats after passing bill to end collective bargaining for most public workers

[The Troll]

Here is a great explanation of why I am agains PUBLIC Unions....


http://www.youtube.com/v/QyxuUjgHkgs

   That's a nice piece of propaganda.  A nice  piece of Republican and anti-union propaganda.  Hitler's Goble, minster of German propaganda in world war two would be proud of this piece of crap.

  Who did this fine piece, with all of the figures and the percentages.  Like I have always said.  Figures lie and liars figure.  Shove it Henry and you know where and I do love unions.

[Palehorse]

18 Republican senators from Wisconsin report getting death threats after passing bill to end collective bargaining for most public workers

Not surprising. Even the peasants wanted to kill the king/queen when their policies and taxation rates became draconian.

When you start kicking a stump you are going to dig up a lot more than rotting wood, but also the skunks that live beneath it.