Public Unions & Collective Bargaining Thread....right or wrong?

[Henry Hawk]

Apples and oranges. . . Democrats exercised their right to caucus outside of the state AFTER the republicans declined concessions offered up by the unions and their membership within the state and instead attempted to ram this anti union legislation down everyone's throat.

but when the republicans voted NO (a legal process) to stop Obamacare that was being RAMMED down the throats, and every poll indicated that Americans was against it....yet, YOU guys said it was obstructionism.  Leaving the state IS against the democratic process, and they COULD be forced by law to do their job.....That didn't happen.

It there a BIT of hypocricy (sp?) here?

[Palehorse]

but when the republicans voted NO (a legal process) to stop Obamacare that was being RAMMED down the throats, and every poll indicated that Americans was against it....yet, YOU guys said it was obstructionism.  Leaving the state IS against the democratic process, and they COULD be forced by law to do their job.....That didn't happen.

It there a BIT of hypocricy (sp?) here?

Stay on point Henry. . . The legitimacy of the actions undertaken over the past 2.25 years by repubs and dems is another subject entirely.

[Palehorse]

Yet, here again we see states attempting to enact local laws that are redundant to federal law, and to what end?

Bottom line is that this will end up costing every single worker in the state money in lost earnings, and additional taxation necessary to enforce all this crap. . . Watch. . .

Why not enforce the laws already in force????

[Palehorse]

Yep, this is going to get VERY interesting. . .

Reports are currently surfacing that the people of the state of Wisconsin are now starting to DEMAND a recall surrounding the 8 newly elected republican senators in the state. . . 

It may  or may not work, but one thing is for sure. . . NEXT election those seats will ALL be filled by democrats. . . The actions of the republican party have just assured it!

In fact, if I have this figured correctly, the next presidential election will see a RECORD number of individual voters voting straight ticket democrat!!!

These morons are sealing their own fate and are so full of themselves that they are blind to what they are doing! 

[The Troll]

Yep, this is going to get VERY interesting. . .

Reports are currently surfacing that the people of the state of Wisconsin are now starting to DEMAND a recall surrounding the 8 newly elected republican senators in the state. . . 

It may  or may not work, but one thing is for sure. . . NEXT election those seats will ALL be filled by democrats. . . The actions of the republican party have just assured it!

In fact, if I have this figured correctly, the next presidential election will see a RECORD number of individual voters voting straight ticket democrat!!!

These morons are sealing their own fate and are so full of themselves that they are blind to what they are doing! 

  I think things will change in a big way for the Democrats in Wisconsin.  But they are to many dumbass Republicans here in Indiana voting against their best interest and their own  jobs.

  Some of them are so ignorant they would vote straight Republican, even if they knew the Republicans was going to take their jobs this year. 

[The Troll]

I want the truth from my zoners, do you see that here?  There are roughly four of us who regulary post.  Is that the vibe you get from us?

I'm sick of certain people blabbing in the air......making generalizations.  Do I throw religion at you guys? Do I put down women?

Somebody needs to have some balls, and tell this person to grow up and discuss, and quit the bashing just because others have differing opinions on how to make this country an better place.

Do you think I am willing to stab others in the back?

  But Henry, ever since I came on the Zone you have bashed the unions and the union workers.

  One of you first statements was.  It's unfair for some uneducated worker in an auto plant making more than me and also have better benefits.  Especially after all the time I spent getting an education.

  I really think this is one one of the things that change my mind about you and gave me a poor opinion of you.  Selfish and cold hearted.     You marked yourself as someone who think they are better than anyone else.  I'm sorry but that's how I feel.  You don't like union workers because they make more than you and have more benefits.  So you knifed me in the back because I'm a UAW UNION WORKER AND DAMN GLAD I AM.  I sure love my union pension.  Bless the UAW

[Sandy Eggo]

I want the truth from my zoners, do you see that here?  There are roughly four of us who regulary post.  Is that the vibe you get from us?

I'm sick of certain people blabbing in the air......making generalizations.  Do I throw religion at you guys? Do I put down women?

Somebody needs to have some balls, and tell this person to grow up and discuss, and quit the bashing just because others have differing opinions on how to make this country an better place.

Do you think I am willing to stab others in the back?

Henry, we've been posting together for years. I don't think I'm alone in saying that you're very highly thought of. We trade opinions and ideas here, but at the end of the day we're all still friends. I wouldn't worry so much about what he says. His comments reflect more on him than they do you. Seriously.

[The Troll]

Henry, we've been posting together for years. I don't think I'm alone in saying that you're very highly thought of. We trade opinions and ideas here, but at the end of the day we're all still friends. I wouldn't worry so much about what he says. His comments reflect more on him than they do you. Seriously.

  So what you just said is that you agree with what he has said about unions and poor uneducated people, woman's rights to an abortion just because you are friends for such a long long time and the mean old Troll doesn't have the right to call him on it.

  In America you can say what you want and think what you want and you can be friends with KKK, Nazis, theives and even union people.  But we also have the right to say they are wrong.  As Henry says so well,  WHAT EVER!

[Sandy Eggo]

  So what you just said is that you agree with what he has said about unions and poor uneducated people, woman's rights to an abortion just because you are friends for such a long long time and the mean old Troll doesn't have the right to call him on it.

  In America you can say what you want and think what you want and you can be friends with KKK, Nazis, theives and even union people.  But we also have the right to say they are wrong.  As Henry says so well,  WHAT EVER!

Uh no, not close, but I do agree with him that yu don't have to be so nasty to state an opinion. Seriously, what does that say about you and your ability to intellegently discuss a topic? It pretty much says that you're incapable and all of the bluster and profanity smacks of insecurity. Do you think anyone can respect you or your opinion with the way you act? Even people who might agree with your stance on things shy away from you because no one wants to be associated with your foul statements.

That's what he said that I agree with.

[Sandy Eggo]

Oh and "call him" or anyone else on anything, you never provide facts, so you've yet to prove anyone wrong OR that your comments are more than the inane ramblings of a disgruntled insecure old man.

[The Troll]

Oh and "call him" or anyone else on anything, you never provide facts, so you've yet to prove anyone wrong OR that your comments are more than the inane ramblings of a disgruntled insecure old man.

  Wow, I must have hit a button, TWO POSTS IN A ROW.  Why  should I provide all of that crap off of the internet when I know what I say is true.  You sure haven't prove me wrong have you and if you could you sure would have been down my throat.

  Inane ramblings of an old man.  Danae you so full of yourself.  When you walked in my shoes as long as I have, now watch what I'm about to say.  You're going to be a real bitch.  With that being said doesn't mean you one now.   I can't think of a better word, sorry.

  What do you get when you call someone silly when he's crazy.  Calling so one not smart when he is stupid.  Calling someone anal when he's an asshole.  It's just words.  I so sorry that I hurt your tender ears I thought this was an adult channel.  Not Sunday school.  You just got to grow up Danae.  This is a cold cold world.

[Sandy Eggo]

  I don't prove anything because I can't. I'm full of shit. I curse and throw temper tantrums to disguise my feeling of inadequacy.

Fixed it for you.

[me]

Fixed it for you.

[Henry Hawk]

  But Henry, ever since I came on the Zone you have bashed the unions and the union workers.

  One of you first statements was.  It's unfair for some uneducated worker in an auto plant making more than me and also have better benefits.  Especially after all the time I spent getting an education.

  I really think this is one one of the things that change my mind about you and gave me a poor opinion of you.  Selfish and cold hearted.     You marked yourself as someone who think they are better than anyone else.  I'm sorry but that's how I feel.  You don't like union workers because they make more than you and have more benefits.  So you knifed me in the back because I'm a UAW UNION WORKER AND DAMN GLAD I AM.  I sure love my union pension.  Bless the UAW

And Troll, I got to be honest with you.  You may very well think I am selfish and cold hearted...I'm good with that.  You have every right to feel anyway you want.
 
I don't have a hatred with all Unions.  The IBEW is a very, very good union.  They provide very skilled and well trained electricians. They get paid very well and IF they do not work to the perfection that my company requires, we can send them back to the hall. 

Our customers expect top quality when they call us, and we ALWAYS deliver.

With that said, I wish the UAW would have been similar.  If a GM plant manager was not getting the hard work or performance expected of a person to do a particular job, they could send him to the hall and get someone who was willing to work for their good pay.  Unfortunately that was not the case.  We got a lot of no good, lazy, worthless bums getting paid GREAT money to F@#$ off!!   The management had on choice but to pamper his butt and TRY to get some production out them.  NOW, don't get me wrong Troll, listen to me here.  I know for a fact that there were many workers that DID their job.  My dad was one of them, I'm sure YOU was one of them...and YOU did have a skilled trade, which I admire.  Had they had a union that had a HALL of workers to pick from, things would have been different today.  I think we would STILL have plants in Anderson Indiana producing auto parts.

Troll, you say that I think I am better than others, well I KNOW I am better than anyone who wants a free handout....but, I am not above anyone else who is just trying to make ends meet in this world.  The UAW had a bunch of lazy, no-good, bums!! THAT IS A FACT!!  Deal with it!!  THEY are the reason WE no longer have a thriving auto industry.  I am NOT jealous of them by any way, shape or form....I just think they are TRASH for ruining a good thing.  I too am sorry, but that is how I FEEL!!  And I will until my dying day.

[Doc]

Unionized labor is something that I'm very familiar with because of what it has done to my father. For the better part of three decades he has been a union iron worker. He has always been my hero for the way he provided for our family and he is the example I follow with my own family. In the past few years I noticed a change in my father's attitude toward his job. He used to believe the union was what kept him in his current job, but now he now despises it.  The union is taking care of the younger, non-experienced people who have been hired at almost the same pay rate that he earns. He also notices that these same new hires have little work ethic and even less ambition. They refuse to work overtime unless mandatory, show up to work late and hung over, and constantly leave an hour early. And yet with all this, when it comes time for yearly wage increases, they are rewarded with the same pay increase. When I ask my father what the union has done for him, his reply is "Nothing. Bob (his boss) has always been very good to us with raises, benefits, and contract renegotiations. He even manages our pension fund himself." My father has spoken of attempts in the past to oust the union. Of course these attempts were met with harsh critcism, usually from the younger employees. Stories like this are what truly boils my blood. In my humble opinion, I feel that today's organized labor movement has done nothing to protect worker's rights, but everything to promote laziness and incompetency.

My father says that my uncle who is in a Mechanics Union has brainwashed him into thinking 3 things.

1. Someone else "Up top" is holding him back.

2. That only the union can help him find another job and stay employed.

3. He only has to give 50% effort and blame the other 50% he's not giving on somebody else.