UAW Debate

[The Troll]

  More on Nestle's pay scale.  I seen some pictures of the insides of Nestle's and all of that stainless steel pipe and stainless steel tanks, steam lines, boilers and hot water lines and tubing.  I would imagine that the pipefitters, the certified welders, insulators and the millwrights that put it together and maintain it make a little more than $10 per hour.

  I know that one thing we skilled trades in the auto business never ever made what the outside union people made.  So I have no idea what Nestle's pays them.  I know that you have to be a state certified to do any welding on boilers and those boys make real big money.  You sure don't want a weld to give on a boiler.  We replace a line on a boiler.  We did all of the repairs and installation, but Ford had to bring in a state certified welder to make the tie in weld on the 8 inch heavy duty steel steam line to the boiler.

[Anne]

Then let me rephrase this, GM was on the verge of bankrupcy....and yet, they had money for pensions, but not money to pay the bills....IF, they did not get bailed out by the government, and they went bankrupt is it fair to say that, the retiree's has no stake in the company?
You are probably right, because common sense no longer means anything anymore.....

The way it was explained to me was that pension funds, not just GM, are "protected" and separate from ordinary operating expenses. When GM went into bankrupcy and the hourly pension fund was well funded they could not include that in the bankrupcy, I suppose if it had been only at 40% or something like that it would have been included and switched over to the government because GM pays into that program. That is what happened to salaried Delphi employees, their pension fund was poorly funded.

[Anne]

I want to ask this question to all zoners, do YOU see me as the Troll has describes?

I want honest answers...

Troll you are on some real drugs, PROVE to me where I don't give a damn about people.....do it and do it now!

Just because I think the UAW ruined Anderson and every auto city in America, I have NO problem with those who worked for them, except for the ones who took advantage of there work privileges...

I'm sick and tired of you blowing your mouth about me, without getting your facts straight....

ftw, the whole thing that bothers me is, GM and the UAW made a promise they can't keep....so, is it MY fault?  Should the taxpayers have to bailout everyones problems.....they have extremely excellent benefits, maybe, just maybe they could take a slight cut, and live like the rest of the senior citizens across this country....it is not the first time a promise has been broken....if you haven't notice folks, we are near a depression, we ALL have to suck it in some....

I don't think you are uncaring about other people. What cuts do you think the GM retirees should take? In their benefits or in their pension? The major benefit hourly retirees get, imo, is their health care, and GM no longer has that. It was passed off to the union (Medical Benefits Trust) in the last contract. When you turn 65 you lose that coverage as your primary coverage and need to go on Medicare part B. Then it BC/BS pays little or nothing. GM cut out eye and dental coverage for retirees last year and that pretty much leaves the legal consulations you can get.

[Henry Hawk]

  I don't know how the rest of the people feel about you, but what I said is true.  Just read your past posts.

  About GM, the government is going to get it's money back and with interest.

  And about taking a cut in my retire pay.  Why don't you take a pay cut and so you'll know what the people in other countries make in pay.   I earn every dollar of my retirement pay for the 38  years I spent at Ford making it of of the best car companies in the world.

  If you had a poor and bad life, maybe I could see how you feel about other people in the world and this country.  But you never work a real hard, dirty, filty, hot, oily, high in the steel job in your whole life.  Hell you might break a nail with the ice cream scoop or the malt mixing machine.  And the jerk is from all of the ice cream sodas you jerked.

again you talk right out of your ass........I have worked in lumbar yards, done construction, hardware stores, a painter, I have worked three jobs, while raising two kids....don't give me that crap which you know nothing about....if you was build such a great car, WHY did they leave troll, WHY did they leave?...because YOU buddies down at Union, SCREWED the POOCH!!!......you will NEVER, EVER convince me any different.....THAT is a freakin FACT!!!!!......cry me a river pal, but YOU reaped the benefits, and the rest of the county got shit!!!....BECAUSE of the U.....A.....W!!!! the United Auto Workers....period.

I don't give a crap if you like me or not.....facts are facts.....

and you honestly think GM is going to pay back the loan, with interest?   paleeze, they have to figure out a way to make a profit first....and until they get the UAW to start being more realistic.....they ain't gonna make enough money to pay the interest.

[Henry Hawk]

The way it was explained to me was that pension funds, not just GM, are "protected" and separate from ordinary operating expenses. When GM went into bankrupcy and the hourly pension fund was well funded they could not include that in the bankrupcy, I suppose if it had been only at 40% or something like that it would have been included and switched over to the government because GM pays into that program. That is what happened to salaried Delphi employees, their pension fund was poorly funded.

anne, I don't want anyone to lose anything, I really don't....I just want SOME particular person to realize a few things.....that THEY have it pretty darn good.....because GM made a nice profit at one time......and since they began asking for more and more and more, that profit was no longer possible......so they left.....and now they cry.

seriously, I hope the auto industry and the uaw, can come to a real working solution to where everyone can win.
I know the UAW can be a good thing, IF, they can put the workers best interest and if the owners can do what is best for America instead of the profit margin.

[The Troll]

again you talk right out of your ass........I have worked in lumbar yards, done construction, hardware stores, a painter, I have worked three jobs, while raising two kids....don't give me that crap which you know nothing about....if you was build such a great car, WHY did they leave troll, WHY did they leave?...because YOU buddies down at Union, SCREWED the POOCH!!!......you will NEVER, EVER convince me any different.....THAT is a freakin FACT!!!!!......cry me a river pal, but YOU reaped the benefits, and the rest of the county got shit!!!....BECAUSE of the U.....A.....W!!!! the United Auto Workers....period.

I don't give a crap if you like me or not.....facts are facts.....

and you honestly think GM is going to pay back the loan, with interest?   paleeze, they have to figure out a way to make a profit first....and until they get the UAW to start being more realistic.....they ain't gonna make enough money to pay the interest.

          Well I don't see how you will change my mind about you.  Your nothing but a big cry baby.    Your sure can put it out, but you sure can't take it.        You just don't give a damn about the poor and the common working people, you look down on them.  Plain and simple.     

[Henry Hawk]

    Well I don't see how you will change my mind about you.  Your nothing but a big cry baby.    Your sure can put it out, but you sure can't take it.    You just don't give a damn about the poor and the common working people, you look down on them.  Plain and simple. 

and YOU are dumbass....plaind and simple....

[The Troll]

and YOU are dumbass....plaind and simple....

  Thank you, Dick, Prick, Penis, Tom Tom,  Peetie, I can't call  you these names they all have a head.  What about Asshole.

[Henry Hawk]

  Thank you, Dick, Prick, Penis, Tom Tom,  Peetie, I can't call  you these names they all have a head.  What about Asshole.

that will work just fine....

[The Troll]

that will work just fine....