Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[Exterminator]

Yes, they have to use that DOE money for a specific purpose so they simply put the DOE money into that program. THEN they take the money that was allocated to that program and shift it over to an account to be able to repay the TARP loan.

Still not the same thing and your representation of it is still a lie.

[Nighthawk]

Still not the same thing and your representation of it is still a lie.

No, it is NOT a lie. If it wasn't for them being able to borrow the money from the DOE one of two things would have happened.Either they leave the original capital funds in their retooling project fund and not be able to repay the TARP loan or they go ahead and take that money from the retooling fund to pay back the TARP loan leaving the retooling fund short those funds.

By taking the DOE loan and putting it in the retooling fund that made the retooling fund have a 'surplus' of 3.5 billion. They then transfer that 'surplus' into the fund to repay the TARP loan. While they don't actually use the DOE loan to repay TARP loan it was still used to free up the capital funds to be able to do so.

Besides, no matter how you try and spin it, they are still in debt to the US taxpayers for that 3.5 billion. They just owe it to the DOE now instead of TARP.

[Exterminator]

If it wasn't for them being able to borrow the money from the DOE one of two things would have happened.Either they leave the original capital funds in their retooling project fund and not be able to repay the TARP loan or they go ahead and take that money from the retooling fund to pay back the TARP loan leaving the retooling fund short those funds.

Conjecture.

[Nighthawk]

Conjecture.

Yes, that part of my post was a bit of conjecture on my part. Just trying to illustrate what could have happened if they hadn't gotten the DOE loan.

Maybe I should have use 'might' instead of 'would'. Bad wording on my part.

[The Troll]

Yes, that part of my post was a bit of conjecture on my part. Just trying to illustrate what could have happened if they hadn't gotten the DOE loan.

Maybe I should have use 'might' instead of 'would'. Bad wording on my part.

  The same old question for the Night Dork.  We're you lying then or are you lying now.  Same O, same O, same O. 

[Y]

Yes, they have to use that DOE money for a specific purpose...

So you finally admit that.   

Now will you admit that makes your words below false?   

Did you miss the part where they borrowed TAX PAYER money to pay back TAX PAYER money?...

[Y]

Conjecture.

Yes, that part of my post was a bit of conjecture on my part. Just trying to illustrate what could have happened if they hadn't gotten the DOE loan.

Maybe I should have use 'might' instead of 'would'. Bad wording on my part.

See, Ex got it right away.   

The entire thing is spin and lies, and your point about how they might use one hand to wash the other - while within the realm of conjecture - is not established fact.

Your original point - if you were trying to do anything besides score political points - being used to bash Obama and his administration would have been better served to bash Fiat/Chrysler and corporate accounting shell games OR the fact that we have taxpayer monies being doled out to corporations for costs that should be born by the corporations and its owners themselves.   

[Nighthawk]

Yes, that part of my post was a bit of conjecture on my part. Just trying to illustrate what could have happened if they hadn't gotten the DOE loan.

Maybe I should have use 'might' instead of 'would'. Bad wording on my part.


See, Ex got it right away.   

The entire thing is spin and lies, and your point about how they might use one hand to wash the other - while within the realm of conjecture - is not established fact.

Your original point - if you were trying to do anything besides score political points - being used to bash Obama and his administration would have been better served to bash Fiat/Chrysler and corporate accounting shell games OR the fact that we have taxpayer monies being doled out to corporations for costs that should be born by the corporations and its owners themselves.   

I did bash Chrysler/Fiat for their shell games as you put it. And Obama deserves to be bashed for this also. Neither Chrysler/Fiat nor Obama is being honest with the public. All we hear from either one is that "Chrysler repaid their bailout loan" neither one of them say that the taxpayers are still on the hook for 3.5 billion dollars.

[Y]

Yes, they have to use that DOE money for a specific purpose...

So you finally admit that.   

Now will you admit that makes your words below false?   

Yes, they have to use that DOE money for a specific purpose...

So you finally admit that.   

Now will you admit that makes your words below false?   

Did you miss the part where they borrowed TAX PAYER money to pay back TAX PAYER money?...

Obviously not.


You also don't pay attention, so I put this here where I asked.

The proof you did lie is in those articles, as I've shown.   

PS, let's keep that one thread, the Repug one.

The only so called 'proof' you have given is ONE line cherry picked from the article that says it is illegal to use the DOE loan to repay the TARP loan. But, the very next line in the article explains how, with 'creative accounting', it is possible to indirectly use the DOE funds to legally pay back the TARP loan.

No matter how they repaid the loan the fact remains that the taxpayers are still on the hook for 3.5 billion dollars and Obama never mentions this.

That "one line" is what tells the tale about their, and your, lie.  ; )

Everything else from you beyond that simply goes to show how far you'll go and how low you'll stoop to justify your lie - all in an effort to score political points against Obama.  ; )

Now what was that you were saying about your 'criticisms' not being based in racism?  ; )

You should reread my points on that topic.  ; )

[Y]

I did bash Chrysler/Fiat for their shell games as you put it. And Obama deserves to be bashed for this also. Neither Chrysler/Fiat nor Obama is being honest with the public. All we hear from either one is that "Chrysler repaid their bailout loan" neither one of them say that the taxpayers are still on the hook for 3.5 billion dollars.

You're a hoot!  Stumblin' all over yourself.   

Let's play!   

1)  Where, point it out.

2)  Why does Obama deserve "to be bashed for this"?

3)  Where is their dishonesty?

4)  Please provide direct quotes from Fiat/Chrysler and Obama.

5)  Please point out how "the taxpayers are still on the hook for 3.5 billion dollars."

[Nighthawk]

Are you saying that it is impossible for Chrysler to shuffle money around to make it possible to legally repay the TARP as I have described and how the article describes?

[Y]

Are you saying that it is impossible for Chrysler to shuffle money around to make it possible to legally repay the TARP as I have described and how the article describes?

That's not your original point.

Now answer the questions:

1)  Where, point it out.

2)  Why does Obama deserve "to be bashed for this"?

3)  Where is their dishonesty?

4)  Please provide direct quotes from Fiat/Chrysler and Obama.

5)  Please point out how "the taxpayers are still on the hook for 3.5 billion dollars."

[The Troll]

We've been over this before. I am not telling you anything that specific. Sad that in your little world it is impossible for a good company to exist in this world that are not union controlled.

I don't care if it only costs 1 penny a month it is still extortion. Forcing anyone to join an organization against their will just to get a job is simply wrong and, to me at least, an infringement of my freedom of choice. In my experience anyone who has to 'brown-nose' to get advance at their job cannot make it on merit.

Are you talking about Paul Ryan's plan? If so, read these to articles for a better understanding of what his plan really means for Medicare:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/25/agenda-project/throw-granny-cliff-ad-says-paul-ryan-plan-would-pr/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/25/agenda-project/throw-granny-cliff-asks-what-country-would-be-with/

The left spins this into a plan that literally trows grandma from a cliff

The right spin it into the end-all, save-all of budget plans when it is not.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

At least it is a start. it is not perfect, it may hurt to implement it and will have to be tweaked and changed but people have to realize that the age of entitlement is coming to an end.

  Mr. Night Hawk I am proud of what I have done.  I was a industrial pipefitter and plumber with Ford Motor Co. for 38 years and a state licensed plumbing contractor for over 40 years.  I am a proud UAW union man.  I was a small business man.  A Democratic Precint Committeeman for two term and quit only because I was put on the afternoon shift for 10 years.

  But not you Mr. Night Hawk.  Not proud of your scab company that you can't give it's name.  Since I don't want your name nor do I give a damn what your name is.  I sure as hell won't call up you company and ask them about you.

  You can't tell us your skills levels or training or what you do.  And you expect us to take you for your words alone.  I'll tell you it's not very much.  Hee, hee, hee.

   Hell, I even tell you that I was in the $70,000 a year range 16 to 17 years ago.  That was too bad of an income back then.  This coming January the first I will be retired 15 years.  Haven't missed one Union retirement check and not one Democratic Social Security check.  With these and my wife and I investments we are scrapping by on around $56,000 a year and we don't owe one dime on the things and toys we have.  Quite a pay cut for us.  But we will get by with what we make and with our UAW drug plan and our Medicare.   Have a good day.  Happy and retired. 

[Nighthawk]

That's not your original point.

Now answer the questions:

<<repetitive snip>>

Yes it was. Go back and read.

[The Troll]

Yes it was. Go back and read.

  From what I read you are not talking for some stupid reason.