Arizona's new illigal ilien law. Good or Bad?

[The Troll]

What do you think of the new law?

1. What do you think of it?

2. Should Indiana have one like it?

3. Do you think it should have included the people who hire the aliens with large fines?

4 Do you think the police would ever "abuse" their power in enforcing this law?

[The Troll]

  In some ways I think it's a good law, along over due law.  But, I think they should have went after the people who hire the illegal iliens with the same vigor.  With large fines and with jail time for repeat offenders.

  Will the police abuse the power of the law.  Your damn right they will.  They abuse any new law that give them more increase in power.  I think the new police are paramilitary thugs with a bad attitude, they sure not peace officers anymore.  They are revenue collectors and jailers.  No common sense.

  Remember when the state of Indiana passed the first seat belt law, saying the police wouldn't pull you over for it, not so.  When they passed the stronger bill, that they could stop you for that alone.

   A couple of days after the law was passed,  two Indianapolis cops and their cars, were down the street from Ford Motor Co. on English Ave.  pulling cars over and ticketing the men, who were leaving work and didn't have their seatbelts on.  From what I heard the Plant Manager called the Mayor and complained about it, never seen them again.

   I sure is going to be interesting when and if Washington gets into it.  Nobody wants to touch this hot potato this close to the election.  The Republican sure doesn't want any part of it, just like they didn't touch it, while George W. was in.   

[kimmi]

Where did the other thread go?

[followsthewolf]

I wondered the same thing.

[Palehorse]

I wondered the same thing.

Where did the other thread go?

You mean this one? (It's in the Hawks nest)   

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=16896.msg357170#new

[followsthewolf]

Thanx.

[Palehorse]

Thanx.

You are quite welcome. Hard to keep track without a program! 

[Moonglow]

What do you think of the new law?

1. What do you think of it? Weak

2. Should Indiana have one like it?

3. Do you think it should have included the people who hire the aliens with large fines? No, we should shoot them, or imprison them

4 Do you think the police would ever "abuse" their power in enforcing this law? When do the fascists never break the law or act like Cretans?

[Palehorse]

(CNN) -- I am white. I know that's a terribly big surprise, considering that I write a blog called Stuff White People Like, but I mean it, I'm white.
Like really white.
I'm not attempting to assert some sort of superiority through my whiteness; quite the opposite actually. Thanks to my liberal upbringing, I am imbued with the appropriate amount of guilt and shame about my ancestors and their actions in the New World.
Even in my home, I can't offer a blanket to a nonwhite friend without the fear that they will look at me and say "no smallpox on this right?" A joke, but I still want to apologize.
I'm a white male. I belong to a group that pretty much always been able to own land and to vote. I'm more or less from the kind that grabbed power somewhere after the fall of Rome and never let go. In other words, I'm the kind of white guy that has never experienced any real oppression.
Although I guess my ancestors technically left England because of some religious persecution and in spite of a rough boat ride and a rough first Thanksgiving, it's safe to say it worked out pretty well. Unless you got one of those aforementioned blankets.
But in addition to being white and having ancestors on the Mayflower, I'm also Canadian. Yes, I know that might actually make me more white than before, but it also technically makes me an immigrant to this country.
Still, I am loath to call myself an immigrant because I don't want to demean the very real, very difficult challenges faced by immigrants to this country who have had to overcome differences in language, culture and distance from their families. I would say my biggest hardship has been trying to find Ketchup Chips.
But in the eyes of the U.S. government, I am an immigrant, the same as someone from China, Mexico or India. I would not be in this country had I not met my wife in graduate school, and I am thankful every day for her and the opportunity to live in the United States.
So when the census came around, I was absolutely thrilled. I've lived in the United States for eight years (four of them as a graduate student), and in that time, I have never been able to vote or access any public services. The census meant I was going to be counted, I was going to be a part of American history. A good part, not that blanket part.
When the form arrived, I scanned the options and quickly checked "white." I would have checked "Canadian" but that option wasn't anywhere to be found. There it was, I was a white American, or technically a white American Permanent Resident. But then I started thinking about what it really means to be a white American.
As long as America has been around, I would have been considered white. I would have checked the same box in the 1790 census, had my relatives decided to stay on their land instead of moving to Canada to stay loyal to the King of England. But not everyone who checked that box on the census has always been considered white. Irish, Italian, Jewish, German and Eastern European have all been considered not white. or at the very least "not American."
All of these groups came to America amid widespread discrimination, and yet through the process of assimilation and Americanization, the status of white was slowly conferred upon them (read "The History of White People" or "How the Irish Became White" for actual, intelligent research on how this happened).
And with this new-found white status also came the status of "ethnically American." Of course, a lot of people will say that there is no such thing as an ethnic American and that everyone who becomes a citizen is an American. And this is true to the letter of the law, but if we consider the popular perception of immigration and the American dream, to say that white skin has nothing to do with it would be complete folly.
In the popular myth, immigrants arrive as huddled masses yearning to be free and most of the women wear scarves around their head. They move to the Lower East Side or some other suitably "ethnic" community, they change a last name, they learn English and within one generation they are welcomed into the country as ethnic Americans and granted that wonderful privilege of checking the white box on the census.
The reality is that America has a long history of welcoming immigrants who will never be able to check that white box on the census, and unfortunately that means America also has a long history of discrimination against those people regardless of their status in the country. Just one example would be the treatment of Japanese-Americans during World War II contrasted against the treatment of German-Americans.
But all of that was in the past right? Well, ask yourself this: Who is more likely to get pulled over and forced to show his papers in Arizona today? A first generation Canadian immigrant, or a 10th generation Mexican-American?
What I hope this census will force the country to deal with is the fact that white immigrants like me will never again make up the majority of people that come to this country. America is not getting whiter, it will never get whiter. Well, unless we start handing those blankets out again.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/29/lander.who.am.i/index.html?hpt=T2

[Sandy Eggo]

A group of artists has been asked to lighten the faces of children depicted in a giant public mural at a Prescott school.

The project's leader says he was ordered to lighten the skin tone after complaints about the children's ethnicity. But the school's principal says the request was only to fix shading and had nothing to do with political pressure.

The "Go on Green" mural, which covers two walls outside Miller Valley Elementary School, was designed to advertise a campaign for environmentally friendly transportation. It features portraits of four children, with a Hispanic boy as the dominant figure.

R.E. Wall, director of Prescott's Downtown Mural Project, said he and other artists were subjected to slurs from motorists as they worked on the painting at one of the town's most prominent intersections.

"We consistently, for two months, had people shouting racial slander from their cars," Wall said. "We had children painting with us, and here come these yells of (epithet for Blacks) and (epithet for Hispanics)."

In a broadcast last month, according to the Daily Courier in Prescott, Blair mistakenly complained that the most prominent child in the painting is African-American, saying: "To depict the biggest picture on the building as a Black person, I would have to ask the question: Why?"

Faces in the mural were drawn from photographs of children enrolled at Miller Valley, a K-5 school with 380 students and the highest ethnic mix of any school in Prescott. Wall said thousands of town residents volunteered or donated to the project, the fourth in a series of community murals painted by a group of artists known as the "Mural Mice."

Well, the "reason why" is that the mural was representative of the students in the school.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/04/20100604arizona-mural-sparks-racial-debate.html

[The Troll]

Well, the "reason why" is that the mural was representative of the students in the school.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/04/20100604arizona-mural-sparks-racial-debate.html

  You know, I don't care what color they are.  Paint them as you see them.  Color matters little.

  What I want to know is how many of them are here illegalilly with parents that are here illegalilly.  Cut off the illegal jobs and put the people who are hiring them in prison.  What I don't understand is,what the people who are defending them, doesn't know what illegal means.

[Palehorse]

Bad Arizona! No cookies for you!

[The Troll]

Bad Arizona! No cookies for you!

    NO COOKIES?  Cookie Monster loooves cooookies.

[Sandy Eggo]

We'll leave it to others to decide whether Arizona's new immigration law is a good thing or a bad thing — but here we try to straighten out some of the confusing factual claims. First, a quick summary. Contrary to what the law's defenders often say, the new statute does more than merely mirror federal law. For example:

    * It's a state crime for an illegal immigrant to apply for a job, or to solicit work publicly.
    * The law also makes it a misdemeanor for a citizen driving a vehicle to stop to hire anyone if that "impedes" traffic.
    * Citizens will be able to sue officials or agencies whose policies interfere with vigorous enforcement of federal immigration law.

On the much-discussed issue of whether the law permits or encourages "racial profiling," we find:

   * The amended law allows police to consider "race, color or national origin" when deciding whether to ask somebody for proof of citizenship, but only to the extent already deemed constitutional by the courts.
    * It remains to be seen how police will interpret the law's anti-profiling language in practice. State officials tell us they have yet to work out what factors police should be trained to use to establish "reasonable suspicion" of illegal status.
    * Federal officials are open to criticisms similar to some of those being made about Arizona's law. A federal manual for training state and local officials says they may consider whether a person has a "thick foreign accent" or looks "out of place" when deciding whether to ask them about their immigration status.

Finally, we examine a widely circulated chain e-mail written by an Arizona state senator who supports the law, and find her claims to be misleading. The violence against ranchers that she describes is real, but it is the work of Mexican crime cartels, not illegal immigrants.

http://factcheck.org/2010/06/arizonas-papers-please-law/

[Henry Hawk]

  You know, I don't care what color they are.  Paint them as you see them.  Color matters little.

  What I want to know is how many of them are here illegalilly with parents that are here illegalilly.  Cut off the illegal jobs and put the people who are hiring them in prison.  What I don't understand is,what the people who are defending them, doesn't know what illegal means.

every once in a while you say something that makes darn good sense....