I saw this on a Facebook post this morning.
"Abortion seems to be the only medical procedure that people want to deny you based on how you got in that situation.
Drove drunk, got in an accident and need an organ transplant? No problem.
Messing around with a gun, accidentally shoot yourself in the leg and need surgery? Of course.
Smoke tobacco for most of your life and need treatment for lung cancer? Yep.
Climb a tree, fall out and break your leg? We'll fix that right up.
Have sex and get pregnant when you don't want to be? YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO THIS SITUATION AND YOU DESERVE NO MEDICAL HELP OR COMPASSION! THIS IS YOUR FAULT AND YOU WILL DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!"
Quote from: Bo D on August 10, 2015, 01:24:43 PM
Have sex and get pregnant when you don't want to be? YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO THIS SITUATION AND YOU DESERVE NO MEDICAL HELP OR COMPASSION! THIS IS YOUR FAULT AND YOU WILL DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!"[/i]
But that is wrong! There are plenty of services for medical help. There are large groups out there with an enormous amount of compassion. Yes, it IS that persons fault. Yes, there ARE consequences (why is this so hard for people to understand?)
Many of us would love to see NOT killing of that unborn baby, yet lets provide a home to some loving parents, who are unable to have a child of their own.
I understand it is a tough choice...and it IS a choice...but lets provide MORE encouragement to do the right thing, instead of KILLING a life.
My heart goes out to anyone facing this decision.
Quote from: Bo D on August 10, 2015, 01:24:43 PM
I saw this on a Facebook post this morning.
"Abortion seems to be the only medical procedure that people want to deny you based on how you got in that situation.
Drove drunk, got in an accident and need an organ transplant? No problem.
Messing around with a gun, accidentally shoot yourself in the leg and need surgery? Of course.
Smoke tobacco for most of your life and need treatment for lung cancer? Yep.
Climb a tree, fall out and break your leg? We'll fix that right up.
Have sex and get pregnant when you don't want to be? YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO THIS SITUATION AND YOU DESERVE NO MEDICAL HELP OR COMPASSION! THIS IS YOUR FAULT AND YOU WILL DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!"
I remember thinking, when I was growing up, that I did not want to have children. I imagine growing up in a small house with 4 sisters and sometimes a cousin or two had something to do with that.
I have two children, a boy and a girl. The boy came first, before I was ready emotionally, but I never considered abortion. And that was the right decision for me, because having that little boy, who was born 5 months after my father died, taught me what it was like to love unconditionally.
I remember when it began: I was changing his diaper, and he was crying and kicking and I was in a hurry (for what I don't remember). He was less than a year old. I raised my hand to hit him, and just before my hand got to his little body, something stopped me -- and then I had the thought: If I had hit him in anger I could've killed him.
Having said that, it is my opinion that not every child who could be born should be born. The mother's instinct and wishes should be the only decision that matters. If a girl or woman wants an abortion, there is a reason. Sometimes it's simply that she does not want the child, or at least not that child by that man.
Some unwanted children, not long after birth and afterwards, die horribly. Others live to adulthood while being physically and/or emotionally abused.
One more thing about what it means to be a mother: I read somewhere that wounded or dying military most often call for their mothers.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 10, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
But that is wrong! There are plenty of services for medical help. There are large groups out there with an enormous amount of compassion.
But yet, the Republicans are fighting to defund Planned Parenthood for providing just such services. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Bo D on August 10, 2015, 03:37:48 PM
But yet, the Republicans are fighting to defund Planned Parenthood for providing just such services. :rolleyes:
They are fighting to defund planned parenthood for selling body parts of the babies after the abortions.
Quote from: me on August 10, 2015, 03:41:44 PM
They are fighting to defund planned parenthood for selling body parts of the babies after the abortions.
And we both know how true that is ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Bo D on August 10, 2015, 03:37:48 PM
But yet, the Republicans are fighting to defund Planned Parenthood for providing just such services. :rolleyes:
They are willing to divert the money to women's hospitals and community centers.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 10, 2015, 04:02:57 PM
They are willing to divert the money to women's hospitals and community centers.
Only as long as those "women's hospitals and community centers" kowtow to the beliefs of the conservatives.
I could never have kids but we adopted our son and daughter! I am not for abortion, mainly because there are tons of people out there who would love to adopt! Now if it was a medical decision, I would say do it but besides that I can't. It is not a religious reason but just my own beliefs!
Quote from: Bo D on August 10, 2015, 04:05:04 PM
Only as long as those "women's hospitals and community centers" kowtow to the beliefs of the conservatives.
Any proof of that?
We DO know that Planned Parenthood, according to our Senate Majority Leader, is a ...."scandal-plagued political lobbying giant"
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 10, 2015, 04:08:36 PM
I could never have kids but we adopted our son and daughter! I am not for abortion, mainly because there are tons of people out there who would love to adopt! Now if it was a medical decision, I would say do it but besides that I can't. It is not a religious reason but just my own beliefs!
8)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 10, 2015, 04:14:11 PM
Any proof of that?
We DO know that Planned Parenthood, according to our Senate Majority Leader, is a ...."scandal-plagued political lobbying giant"
I strongly disagree. I have a very good friend, a nurse, who has worked for Planned Parenthood for years. And know others in the profession who routinely refer troubled young and older women to them.
Quote from: libby on August 10, 2015, 04:19:03 PM
I strongly disagree. I have a very good friend, a nurse, who has worked for Planned Parenthood for years.
and how does that prove that they are not scandal plagued and are lobbyists? I'm not saying anything bad about people who work for them....I'm sure there are lots of great people there. As a large group...it gets money from Federal Tax Dollars.....it then gives back to democrat politicians campaign funds....that is lobbying. Selling baby parts IS scandalous.....it NEEDS to be investigated at the least.
Henry, If you're going to insinuate that I don't know what I'm talking about, do me a favor and include my entire post. It was only two lines long :rolleyes: Here it is again: (the part in bold is what you left out).
Quote from: libby on August 10, 2015, 04:19:03 PM
I strongly disagree. I have a very good friend, a nurse, who has worked for Planned Parenthood for years. And know others in the profession who routinely refer troubled young and older women to them.
Quote from: libby on August 10, 2015, 06:31:54 PM
Henry, If you're going to insinuate that I don't know what I'm talking about, do me a favor and include my entire post. It was only two lines long :rolleyes: Here it is again: (the part in bold is what you left out).
That part of the sentence doesn't change my point Libby....I didn't INSINUATE anything, other than what I stated. Just because YOU know people there, who do good things, does NOT negate the BAD things that DOES go on there. PERIOD.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2015, 07:45:36 AM
Just because YOU know people there, who do good things, does NOT negate the BAD things that DOES go on there. PERIOD.
What bad things, specifically?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 11, 2015, 10:36:23 AM
What bad things, specifically?
I know! I know! :carrot: :carrot:
Scumbag, lying right-wing news media sneaking in with cameras and asking leading questions, baiting and then releasing heavily edited and re-worked video to make it look like something is wrong.
And I know. Henry, I gave you a chance. I implied one thing, you inferred another. So here are the facts (ironically) from Fox News. :wink:
Home
FoxNews.com
MEDICAL RESEARCH
Medical researchers say fetal tissue remains essential
Published August 11, 2015
Associated Press
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The furor on Capitol Hill over Planned Parenthood has stoked a debate about the use of tissue from aborted fetuses in medical research, but U.S. scientists have been using such cells for decades to develop vaccines and seek treatments for a host of ailments, from vision loss and neurological disorders to cancer and AIDS.
Anti-abortion activists set off the uproar by releasing undercover videos of Planned Parenthood officials that raised questions of whether the organization was profiting from the sale of fetal tissue. Planned Parenthood has denied making any profit and said it charges fees solely to cover its costs.
University laboratories that buy such cells strongly defend their research, saying tissue that would otherwise be thrown out has played a vital role in lifesaving medical advances and holds great potential for further breakthroughs.
Fetal cells are considered ideal because they divide rapidly, adapt to new environments easily and are less susceptible to rejection than adult cells when transplanted.
"If researchers are unable to work with fetal tissue, there is a huge list of diseases for which researchers would move much more slowly, rather than quickly, to find their cause and how they can be cured," Stanford University spokeswoman Lisa Lapin said in an email.
From 2011 through 2014 alone, 97 research institutions — mostly universities and hospitals — received a total of $280 million in federal grants for fetal tissue research from the National Institutes of Health. A few institutions have consistently gotten large shares of that money, including Yale, the University of California and Massachusetts General Hospital, which is affiliated with Harvard.
The U.S. government prohibits the sale of fetal tissue for profit and requires separation between researchers and the women who donate fetuses. Some schools go further, requiring written consent from donors.
Many major universities declined to make scientists available for interviews about their fetal tissue work, saying they fear for the researchers' safety because the issue is so highly charged. The Planned Parenthood uproar led to a failed attempt by Republicans to strip the organization of federal funding.
Researchers use fetal tissue to understand cell biology and human development. Others use it to look for treatments for AIDS. Research on spinal cord injuries and eyesight-robbing macular degeneration involves transplanting fetal cells into patients. European researchers recently began putting fetal tissue into patients' brains to try to treat Parkinson's, a strategy that previously had mixed results.
Some scientists are looking for alternatives to fetal tissue, such as using adult cells that have been "reprogrammed" to their earlier forms. But those techniques are still being refined, and some fields are likely to remain reliant on fetal tissue, such as the study of fetal development.
Vaccines have been one of the chief public benefits of fetal tissue research. Vaccines for hepatitis A, German measles, chickenpox and rabies, for example, were developed using cell lines grown from tissue from two elective abortions, one in England and one in Sweden, that were performed in the 1960s.
German measles, also known as rubella, "caused 5,000 spontaneous abortions a year prior to the vaccine," said Dr. Paul Offit, an infectious-disease specialist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "We wouldn't have saved all those lives had it not been for those cells."
Fetal tissue was "absolutely critical" to the development of a potential Ebola vaccine that has shown promise, said Dr. Carrie Wolinetz, an associate director at NIH, which last year handed out $76 million for work involving fetal tissue, or 0.2 percent of the agency's research budget.
Scientists are also using fetal tissue to try to identify substances in adults that could be early warning signs of cancer, said Dr. Akhilesh Pandey, a molecular biologist at Johns Hopkins University.
Experts at MIT and other research centers use fetal tissue to implant the human immune system into mice, as a way to study diseases without employing people as test subjects. They add tumors to study the immune system's response, then test cancer treatments out on the mice.
"This eventually will provide a benefit to society," said Jianzhu Chen, an immunology professor and researcher at MIT.
At Stanford, fetal tissue has been used to study Huntington's disease, "bubble boy disease" and juvenile diabetes. Fetal brain calls are now being used there in research on autism and schizophrenia.
After the release of the undercover videos, Colorado State University conducted an ethics review and suspended its dealings with one vendor. But it is pressing ahead with its HIV research with fetal tissue.
"Our position is this research has such tremendous value in driving discoveries that could be done no other way," said Alan Rudolph, university vice president of research.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwAGsjoorvk
Here are the video's in its entirety, uncut, unedited.
At the very least, it is highly immoral, for a person in her position, to discuss these issues in the manner she did......negotiating a price of a baby's organs, like selling tires is what I consider a "Bad thing". Killing a baby in a particular fashion so it doesn't ruin specific organs, so they can SELL THEM?... :confused: HOW is this a good thing?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2015, 11:29:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwAGsjoorvk
Here are the video's in its entirety, uncut, unedited.
At the very least, it is highly immoral, for a person in her position, to discuss these issues in the manner she did......negotiating a price of a baby's organs, like selling tires is what I consider a "Bad thing". Killing a baby in a particular fashion so it doesn't ruin specific organs, so they can SELL THEM?... :confused: HOW is this a good thing?
Form the comment immediately below the video ...
The claims by this fraudulent group "The Center for Medical Progress" have been proven wrong. "Baby parts" are not "sold for profit". Fetal tissue donation is real, and legal, and all Republicans except 4 voted in favor of it in 1993. The problem with the claim is that ALL states that have investigated have proven so far that PP doesn't actually do any of the things this fraudulent group accuses them of doing, which is "sell baby parts for profit". As we hear the apparent PP official here, "We're not in it for the money". We now know that between $30-100 for tissue samples are the average costs for a tissue sample, exactly the range the official told the anti-choice fraud woman.
The more Henry opens his mouth the more he proves he has no brain. :knife: :yes:
Quote from: Bo D on August 11, 2015, 10:49:40 AM
...then releasing heavily edited and re-worked video to make it look like something is wrong.
Otherwise known as lying.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 11, 2015, 12:44:25 PM
Otherwise known as lying.
but it wasn't edited. It is what it is.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 11, 2015, 01:16:00 PM
but it wasn't edited. It is what it is.
The way it was originally presented was absolutely lying. Do you not know the difference?
By the way, if using fetal tissue for research offends you so badly, you are certainly welcome to avoid contributing to it by not ever going to a doctor or hospital if you or someone in your family gets sick.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 11, 2015, 01:32:28 PM
The way it was originally presented was absolutely lying. Do you not know the difference?
By the way, if using fetal tissue for research offends you so badly, you are certainly welcome to avoid contributing to it by not ever going to a doctor or hospital if you or someone in your family gets sick.
A-men, just pray yourself healthy, Henry. :pray: :preach: :pope:
Quote from: Bo D on August 11, 2015, 11:46:33 AM
Form the comment immediately below the video ...
The claims by this fraudulent group "The Center for Medical Progress" have been proven wrong. "Baby parts" are not "sold for profit". Fetal tissue donation is real, and legal, and all Republicans except 4 voted in favor of it in 1993. The problem with the claim is that ALL states that have investigated have proven so far that PP doesn't actually do any of the things this fraudulent group accuses them of doing, which is "sell baby parts for profit". As we hear the apparent PP official here, "We're not in it for the money". We now know that between $30-100 for tissue samples are the average costs for a tissue sample, exactly the range the official told the anti-choice fraud woman.
Why were they haggling over the price if not for profit? If they are not for profit why not just donate the entire body? The government also pays for the research through taxing us and this process makes it cost us more in the long run. They/we fund both ends of the deal if you think about it.
Why not donate the whole body? Haggling over price? The government ....
Human body parts, even such things as the afterbirth, are only viable for so long, and different entities want/need specific body parts, not the whole body. Gruesome example:
When my son died suddenly about 7 years ago, his girlfriend and I drove to the hospital where they took him, and almost immediately after the doctor quietly told us he did not survive, somebody else came in and said they needed my permission as next of kin to release his body (which he agreed to donate on his demise). I signed the paper and we left and went home -- and called my daughter, his sister. Then the phone started ringing. The first call was from a neurosurgeon who wanted his brain. I don't remember specifics of other calls after that, except for one from the county coroner, who wanted my permission to do an autopsy to determine cause of death. Again I said OK. But not long after that he called back and said they couldn't use his body after all because he had some kind of infection in his lungs, plus COPD complicated by rib fractures.
So I had to face the fact that in about 3 hours my boy had died, been cut up and spread around, so I told the undertaker that I wanted what was left of him cremated.
Quote from: libby on August 11, 2015, 09:46:52 PM
Why not donate the whole body? Haggling over price? The government ....
Human body parts, even such things as the afterbirth, are only viable for so long, and different entities want/need specific body parts, not the whole body. Gruesome example:
When my son died suddenly about 7 years ago, his girlfriend and I drove to the hospital where they took him, and almost immediately after the doctor quietly told us he did not survive, somebody else came in and said they needed my permission as next of kin to release his body (which he agreed to donate on his demise). I signed the paper and we left and went home -- and called my daughter, his sister. Then the phone started ringing. The first call was from a neurosurgeon who wanted his brain. I don't remember specifics of other calls after that, except for one from the county coroner, who wanted my permission to do an autopsy to determine cause of death. Again I said OK. But not long after that he called back and said they couldn't use his body after all because he had some kind of infection in his lungs, plus COPD complicated by rib fractures.
So I had to face the fact that in about 3 hours my boy had died, been cut up and spread around, so I told the undertaker that I wanted what was left of him cremated.
Do you not see the difference here? Abortion clinic....hospital......Your son had a chance to experience life.......the unborn child didn't.......the mother, or another relative had no chance to have a say in the matter.....you did.....
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 01:26:49 AM
Do you not see the difference here? Abortion clinic....hospital......Your son had a chance to experience life.......the unborn child didn't.......the mother, or another relative had no chance to have a say in the matter.....you did.....
Really, a mother can't say no to an abortion? How hard is it to say no!!!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 12, 2015, 07:54:56 AM
Really, a mother can't say no to an abortion? How hard is it to say no!!!
Sure, they can say no to the abortion but they have no say in what happens to the baby. Yes, I said baby because if it has body parts to be distributed it is a formed baby not a lump of cells.
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 08:18:36 AM
Sure, they can say no to the abortion but they have no say in what happens to the baby. Yes, I said baby because if it has body parts to be distributed it is a formed baby not a lump of cells.
I know it is a baby but a woman can say no to the abortion and have a say so!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 12, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
I know it is a baby but a woman can say no to the abortion and have a say so!
She should have thought about the possibility of becoming pregnant before the fact and prevented it. Yes, there are rape and incest caused pregnancys but that can be taken care of another way, before the fetus becomes a child in the womb. Yes, there are valid reasons to have an abortion but not just because you slept around and got pregnant or because it's inconvenient to be pregnant.
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 09:30:30 AM
She should have thought about the possibility of becoming pregnant before the fact and prevented it. Yes, there are rape and incest caused pregnancys but that can be taken care of another way, before the fetus becomes a child in the womb. Yes, there are valid reasons to have an abortion but not just because you slept around and got pregnant or because it's inconvenient to be pregnant.
There is adoption! That is always the alternative to abortion even on rape and incests and along with the sleeping around!
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 09:30:30 AM
She should have thought about the possibility of becoming pregnant before the fact and prevented it.
Yet the Republicans are against affordable contraception too!
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 09:53:00 AM
Yet the Republicans are against affordable contraception too!
No, they are not that is a liberal talking point period.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 12, 2015, 09:33:49 AM
There is adoption! That is always the alternative to abortion even on rape and incests and along with the sleeping around!
But sleeping around or inconvenient should not be a reason for an abortion if the person becomes pregnant.
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 09:55:11 AM
No, they are not that is a liberal talking point period.
What planet are you from? :rolleyes:
Here's just one example ...
Rick Santorum says that any form of birth control is immoral. "Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that's okay, contraception is okay," Santorum, a devout Catholic, said in October. "It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 10:02:42 AM
What planet are you from? :rolleyes:
Here's just one example ...
Rick Santorum says that any form of birth control is immoral. "Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that's okay, contraception is okay," Santorum, a devout Catholic, said in October. "It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."
Rick Santorum is NOT the Republican Party.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
Rick Santorum is NOT the Republican Party.
Mike Huckabee - If the Democrats want to insult the women of America by making them believe that they are helpless without Uncle Sugar coming in and providing for them a prescription each month for birth control, because they cannot control their libido or their reproductive system without the help of the government, then so be it."
Rush Limbaugh branded a law student a "slut" because she endorsed the medical necessity of birth control.
Let me get this straight, Ms. Fluke, and I'm asking this with all due respect: You want me to give you my hard-earned dollars so you can have sex," Bill O'Reilly
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 11:40:38 AM
Mike Huckabee - If the Democrats want to insult the women of America by making them believe that they are helpless without Uncle Sugar coming in and providing for them a prescription each month for birth control, because they cannot control their libido or their reproductive system without the help of the government, then so be it."
If you think about it, it SHOULD be an insult to women. Many of them are DEPENDENT on the government for their sex lives.
Are we supposed to be talking about AFFORDABLE or FREE? Why don't we give out free cigarettes? or tatoo's? or booze? Many of these women seem to afford to pay for those items. why shouldn't they be able to afford over the counter birth control?
I have a hard time getting my head wrapped around that.
Ken Cuccinelli "birth control causes abortion."
John Boehner - the Affordable Health Care Act's free birth control mandate "cannot stand and will not stand."
Mitch McConnell - your religiously devout boss has the right to deprive you of affordable birth control because it's his or her "religious liberty."
Bob Casey - does not believe religiously-affiliated organizations should have cover free birth control
Marco Rubio - fired back at the Affordable Care Act last year with his own bill—the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 2012—which would have allowed employers to block free birth control—or, for that matter, any health service—based on religious or moral beliefs
Chris Christie - In signing his state's budget earlier this year, he—for the fifth time—failed to include additional funding for family planning services that would have benefited clinics offering birth control, cancer screenings and STD testing
Paul Ryan - Obamacare's free birth control mandate is a "threat"
Rick Perry - gutted funding for family planning, leaving hundreds of thousands of Texas women without birth control (or, for that matter, basic reproductive healthcare),
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
If you think about it, it SHOULD be an insult to women. Many of them are DEPENDENT on the government for their sex lives.
Are we supposed to be talking about AFFORDABLE or FREE? Why don't we give out free cigarettes? or tatoo's? or booze? Many of these women seem to afford to pay for those items. why shouldn't they be able to afford over the counter birth control?
I have a hard time getting my head wrapped around that.
The Pill can cost $850 per year when you include the cost of a doctor's visit. The patch and ring can set users back $1200 per year. And sterilization costs around $6,000 without insurance.
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 11:59:23 AM
The Pill can cost $850 per year when you include the cost of a doctor's visit. The patch and ring can set users back $1200 per year. And sterilization costs around $6,000 without insurance.
So the government should PAY for it then?
You know Bo, I understand this whole argument. It is just frustrating to see a group of people be so dependent on certain things. Like I said, I know these girls get tatoos, smokes, booze....but yet cannot take care of themselves on important stuff.
There is no "accountability" for their actions, for many young folks today....
Even with the FREE birth control, which IS available to many poor folks, there STILL is a problem with un-wanted pregnancies and abortions.
I hate that our country is turning into a dependent state.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 12:13:29 PM
So the government should PAY for it then?
You know Bo, I understand this whole argument. It is just frustrating to see a group of people be so dependent on certain things. Like I said, I know these girls get tatoos, smokes, booze....but yet cannot take care of themselves on important stuff.
There is no "accountability" for their actions, for many young folks today....
Even with the FREE birth control, which IS available to many poor folks, there STILL is a problem with un-wanted pregnancies and abortions.
I hate that our country is turning into a dependent state.
• The overall U.S. unintended pregnancy rate increased slightly between 1994 and 2008, but
unintended pregnancy increased 55% among poor women, while
decreasing 24% among higher-income women.
• Overall, the abortion rate decreased 8% between 2000 and 2008, but
abortion increased 18% among poor women, while
decreasing 28% among higher-income women.
•In 2011, approximately 1.06 million abortions took place in the U.S.,
down from an estimated 1.21 million abortions in 2008, 1.29 million in 2002, 1.31 million in 2000 and 1.36 million in 1996. From 1973 through 2011, nearly 53 million legal abortions occurred in the U.S. (AGI).
•Based on available state-level data, an estimated 984,000 abortions took place in 2013—
down from an estimated 1.02 million abortions in 2012.
So ... if you're poor, you're relegated to a lower class of humans with fewer rights?
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 12:21:42 PM
So ... if you're poor, you're relegated to a lower class of humans with fewer rights?
They have the same rights. The poor in this country have nearly everything they need to survive for free. I am not against helping the poor, neither is the republican party. I am struggling with helping those who WON'T help themselves. Smokes, Tattoos, and drugs, are not needed for survival...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 12:32:29 PM
They have the same rights. The poor in this country have nearly everything they need to survive for free. I am not against helping the poor, neither is the republican party. I am struggling with helping those who WON'T help themselves. Smokes, Tattoos, and drugs, are not needed for survival...
We're not talking about smokes and tattoos! :rolleyes: :rant:
We're talking about the working poor and struggling middle class women who want to enjoy a little romp in the bed every now and then without having to worry about getting pregnant!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 12:13:29 PM
So the government should PAY for it then?
So you take issue with paying $850.00 for birth control but not the $3,950.00 exemption you take for each of your dependents?
QuoteThere is no "accountability" for their actions, for many young folks today....
Where is your accountability?
You had sex and chose to have children; why should the rest of us be forced to subsidize you?
QuoteI hate that our country is turning into a dependent state.
Then put your money where your mouth is and stop being one of them!
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 12:36:29 PM
We're not talking about smokes and tattoos! :rolleyes: :rant:
We're talking about the working poor and struggling middle class women who want to enjoy a little romp in the bed every now and then without having to worry about getting pregnant!
and it already IS affordable!!! :rolleyes: :rant: $0 to $50 a month!! for the pill. It is that SAME working poor and struggling middle class women who are able to buy smokes and tattoos! yet CRY when they have to belly up for some BC.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 12:42:26 PM
and it already IS affordable!!! :rolleyes: :rant: $0 to $50 a month!! for the pill. It is that SAME working poor and struggling middle class women who are able to buy smokes and tattoos! yet CRY when they have to belly up for some BC.
Can't you friggin read?
The Pill can cost $850 per year when you include the cost of a doctor's visit. The patch and ring can set users back $1200 per year. And sterilization costs around $6,000 without insurance.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 12, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
Then put your money where your mouth is and stop being one of them!
You have NO clue to what I do with my money. Helping those who need it, I am the first in line to help. Giving back is something that being a Christian has taught me for years now. Maybe you should think about it sometime.
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 12:45:10 PM
Can't you friggin read?
The Pill can cost $850 per year when you include the cost of a doctor's visit. The patch and ring can set users back $1200 per year. And sterilization costs around $6,000 without insurance.
I read what YOU wrote. I also KNOW that family planning will issue the pill for free up to $50 bucks a month....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 12:46:02 PM
You have NO clue to what I do with my money. Helping those who need it, I am the first in line to help. Giving back is something that being a Christian has taught me for years now. Maybe you should think about it sometime.
The subject is the tax exemptions you take for the results of your having had sex. Why should the rest of the taxpayers foot the bill for you?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 12:47:31 PM
I read what YOU wrote. I also KNOW that family planning will issue the pill for free up to $50 bucks a month....
Which is what the republicans want to put an end to. Refer to previous page. Please try to keep up.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 12, 2015, 12:48:25 PM
The subject is the tax exemptions you take for the results of your having had sex. Why should the rest of the taxpayers foot the bill for you?
He contributes too which is a point you seem to keep missing here. The old personal attack again which is a debating trick to throw the opposing person off by having to defend themselves rather than discuss the issue. Damn this gets old. :rolleyes:
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 01:01:24 PM
He contributes too which is a point you seem to keep missing here. The old personal attack again which is a debating trick to throw the opposing person off by having to defend themselves rather than discuss the issue. Damn this gets old. :rolleyes:
How the hell is that a personal attack?
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 12:49:52 PM
Which is what the republicans want to put an end to. Refer to previous page. Please try to keep up.
Oh, I have kept up...and the republicans are STILL willing to give the money allocated to help women in Community Centers/hospitals.......they just want the $$ for abortions to go away.
Quote from: me on August 12, 2015, 01:01:24 PM
He contributes too which is a point you seem to keep missing here.
Are you assuming that none of the people for whom he would deny the cost of birth control contribute? That would be a pretty stupid assumption.
My household contributes a lot more than his does and we use fewer taxpayer funded resources. Why are my tax dollars subsidizing his breeding? Seems pretty hypocritical for him to be profiting for his sex life while he's demanding others be accountable for theirs.
QuoteThe old personal attack again which is a debating trick to throw the opposing person off by having to defend themselves rather than discuss the issue. Damn this gets old. :rolleyes:
How would you suggest we address such wanton stupidity?
Quote from: Exterminator on August 12, 2015, 12:48:25 PM
The subject is the tax exemptions you take for the results of your having had sex. Why should the rest of the taxpayers foot the bill for you?
Talk to your congressman.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 01:10:49 PM
Oh, I have kept up...and the republicans are STILL willing to give the money allocated to help women in Community Centers/hospitals.......they just want the $$ for abortions to go away.
Holy Hell!!!! Every damned one of the republicans I quoted on the last page wants to do away with affordable birth control!
Are you that dense today?
Please give us a concrete example of those community centers/hospitals and how accessible they are.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 01:11:20 PM
Talk to your congressman.
So you admit you're a hypocrite who is unwilling to be held personally accountable for your actions unless someone else makes you...got it.
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 01:16:13 PM
Holy Hell!!!! Every damned one of the republicans I quoted on the last page wants to do away with affordable birth control!
And, of course, federal tax dollars aren't used for abortions anyway. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 12, 2015, 01:17:40 PM
So you admit you're a hypocrite who is unwilling to be held personally accountable for your actions unless someone else makes you...got it.
You are so full of shit it is pathetic...all I know is, I follow the law. If you don't like it, talk to your congressman. I don't like certain things in the law and I vote for those who will TRY to change it.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 12, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
And, of course, federal tax dollars aren't used for abortions anyway. :rolleyes:
bullshit
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 01:26:53 PM
bullshit
The Hyde Amendment
SEC. 506. (a) None of the funds appropriated in this Act, and none of the funds in any trust fund to which funds are appropriated in this Act, shall be expended for any abortion. (b) None of the funds appropriated in this Act, and none of the funds in any trust fund to which funds are appropriated in this Act, shall be expended for health benefits coverage that includes coverage of abortion
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I am getting SOOOO tired of fighting willful ignorance.
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 01:28:37 PM
The Hyde Amendment
SEC. 506. (a) None of the funds appropriated in this Act, and none of the funds in any trust fund to which funds are appropriated in this Act, shall be expended for any abortion. (b) None of the funds appropriated in this Act, and none of the funds in any trust fund to which funds are appropriated in this Act, shall be expended for health benefits coverage that includes coverage of abortion
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
upcoming implementation of President Obama's health care reform law, new routes for abortion funding and subsidizing (http://www.rtl.org/RLMNews/09editions/AreMyTaxDollarsPayingForAbortion.htm) have been opened up.....
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 01:32:10 PM
I am getting SOOOO tired of fighting willful ignorance.
Obviously not.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 01:33:56 PM
upcoming implementation of President Obama's health care reform law, new routes for abortion funding and subsidizing (http://www.rtl.org/RLMNews/09editions/AreMyTaxDollarsPayingForAbortion.htm) have been opened up.....
LIE!!!!
President issued Executive Order 13535 on March 24, 2010 affirming that the Hyde Amendment would extend to the new bill.
"ensure that Federal funds are not used for abortion services "
"The Act maintains current Hyde Amendment restrictions governing abortion policy and extends those restrictions to the newly created health insurance exchanges. "
"The Act specifically prohibits the use of tax credits and cost-sharing reduction payments to pay for abortion services"
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 01:26:27 PM
You are so full of shit it is pathetic...
What is pathetic is that you aren't man enough to live up to the same standards you expect of others.
Quote...all I know is, I follow the law.
How convenient. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 01:48:54 PM
LIE!!!!
President issued Executive Order 13535 on March 24, 2010 affirming that the Hyde Amendment would extend to the new bill.
"ensure that Federal funds are not used for abortion services "
"The Act maintains current Hyde Amendment restrictions governing abortion policy and extends those restrictions to the newly created health insurance exchanges. "
"The Act specifically prohibits the use of tax credits and cost-sharing reduction payments to pay for abortion services"
Because the health care exchanges and other programs authorized and appropriated under the Affordable Care Act are separate from all other appropriations laws, the President's promise to extend the Hyde amendment to the "newly created exchanges" was the game changer. The President got the votes of several pro-life democrats needed for passage.
Recent history now shows the President's solemn promise to extend Hyde to the Affordable Care Act was a lie.
While the Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funds to any health plan that includes abortion except for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother, the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to notice by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, is today making monthly advance payments with U.S. taxpayer funds to insurance companies or to exchanges to pay for health insurance plans that subsidize abortion on demand.
It couldn't be more clear—the President is not extending the Hyde Amendment to the "newly created exchanges".
Moreover, an extensive audit released last September by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that 1,036 Affordable Care Act exchange plans had abortion secretly embedded in the plan. If the Hyde Amendment truly had been applied the number of plans with elective abortion coverage would be zero.
We live in an age of ultrasound imaging—the ultimate window to the womb and the child who resides there. We are in the midst of a fetal health care revolution, an explosion of benign interventions designed to diagnose, treat and cure the precious lives of these youngest patients. We also know unborn children, at least by 20 weeks, or about 6 months, feel horrific pain while being aborted.
Because of this, Americans have consistently demanded—and now in ever-growing numbers—that public funds not pay for abortion. The Marist Poll released this month found that 68 percent of Americans oppose taxpayer funding for abortions, and that includes 69 percent of women; 71 percent of the millennials. The younger generation knows that we cannot build a better future by paying for the destruction of the most vulnerable among us.(Chris Smith, a representative from New Jersey, is the author of HR 7, the No Taxpayers Funding for Abortion and Abortion Insurance Full Disclosure Act.) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/01/26/does-obamacare-provide-federal-subsidies-for-elective-abortions/)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 02:02:38 PM
Because the health care exchanges and other programs authorized and appropriated under the Affordable Care Act are separate from all other appropriations laws, the President's promise to extend the Hyde amendment to the "newly created exchanges" was the game changer. The President got the votes of several pro-life democrats needed for passage.
Recent history now shows the President's solemn promise to extend Hyde to the Affordable Care Act was a lie.
While the Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funds to any health plan that includes abortion except for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother, the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to notice by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, is today making monthly advance payments with U.S. taxpayer funds to insurance companies or to exchanges to pay for health insurance plans that subsidize abortion on demand.
It couldn't be more clear—the President is not extending the Hyde Amendment to the "newly created exchanges".
Moreover, an extensive audit released last September by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that 1,036 Affordable Care Act exchange plans had abortion secretly embedded in the plan. If the Hyde Amendment truly had been applied the number of plans with elective abortion coverage would be zero.
We live in an age of ultrasound imaging—the ultimate window to the womb and the child who resides there. We are in the midst of a fetal health care revolution, an explosion of benign interventions designed to diagnose, treat and cure the precious lives of these youngest patients. We also know unborn children, at least by 20 weeks, or about 6 months, feel horrific pain while being aborted.
Because of this, Americans have consistently demanded—and now in ever-growing numbers—that public funds not pay for abortion. The Marist Poll released this month found that 68 percent of Americans oppose taxpayer funding for abortions, and that includes 69 percent of women; 71 percent of the millennials. The younger generation knows that we cannot build a better future by paying for the destruction of the most vulnerable among us.
(Chris Smith, a representative from New Jersey, is the author of HR 7, the No Taxpayers Funding for Abortion and Abortion Insurance Full Disclosure Act.) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/01/26/does-obamacare-provide-federal-subsidies-for-elective-abortions/)
:haha: :haha: :haha:
You picked Washington Post Fact Checker! Too bad you didn't read the whole thing!
Under Obamacare, health insurance plans could cover some or all elective abortions, but they
can't use federal tax credits and subsidies to offset the cost. Insurance providers that cover elective abortions must charge consumers separately and deposit the money into a separate account that contains no federal money. Providers need to bill enrollees separately for elective abortions by itemizing them separately in monthly bills or sending separate bills.
"Moreover, an extensive audit released last September by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that 1,036 Affordable Care Act exchange plans had abortion secretly embedded in the plan"Another lie!
States can pass laws to ban or restrict health plans from providing coverage for elective abortions. In 2014, 23 states restricted coverage for these procedures. There were 1,036 plans in 28 states that provided some or all coverage for elective abortions.
Obama ordered Health and Human Services and the Office of Management and Budget to issue a guideline for states so they can comply with billing and funding segregation requirements.
The report did not examine whether the providers were illegally using federal subsidies to pay for elective abortion services. In response to the report, HHS released a new set of regulations to clarify billing and funding segregation requirements.
Experts say the GAO's findings do not necessarily mean insurance providers are inappropriately using federal subsidies to cover abortion services.
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 02:20:42 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha:
You picked Washington Post Fact Checker! Too bad you didn't read the whole thing!
Oh, but I have MORE.... :haha: :haha: :haha:
Obamacare's Many Loopholes: Forcing Individuals and Taxpayers to Fund Elective Abortion Coverage (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/01/obamacares-many-loopholes-forcing-individuals-and-taxpayers-to-fund-elective-abortion-coverage)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 12, 2015, 02:24:25 PM
Oh, but I have MORE.... :haha: :haha: :haha:
Obamacare's Many Loopholes: Forcing Individuals and Taxpayers to Fund Elective Abortion Coverage (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/01/obamacares-many-loopholes-forcing-individuals-and-taxpayers-to-fund-elective-abortion-coverage)
Explain to us
IN YOUR OWN WORDS how that article proves that federal dollars are used for abortion.
I get it!
You're against abortion. (Guess what? I don't like it either. But then again, I don't like war. Fat chance we can ever ban federal funding for that!)
You're against affordable contraception.
You're against federal aid to poor, food stamps, etc.
So we bring all these poor children into a life of poverty and a miserable, loveless experience and grow them up so we can send them off to die in our wars? Or cart them off to prison because maybe they stole some food?
And don't give me that "I give" shit. YOU DON"T GIVE ENOUGH! If you really cared, you would take that $3,950 exemption you got for each of your children times 21+ years and donate it to a poor family.
And why is it that you think that being poor is their own fault? Do you realize that you are probably no more than two or three paychecks away from being homeless?
There but for the grace of God ....
Live out of the back of your car under the bridge down by the river for a couple of winters and get back to me on that.
Quote from: Bo D on August 12, 2015, 03:42:42 PM
I get it!
You're against abortion. (Guess what? I don't like it either. But then again, I don't like war. Fat chance we can ever ban federal funding for that!)
You're against affordable contraception.
You're against federal aid to poor, food stamps, etc.
So we bring all these poor children into a life of poverty and a miserable, loveless experience and grow them up so we can send them off to die in our wars? Or cart them off to prison because maybe they stole some food?
And don't give me that "I give" shit. YOU DON"T GIVE ENOUGH! If you really cared, you would take that $3,950 exemption you got for each of your children times 21+ years and donate it to a poor family.
And why is it that you think that being poor is their own fault? Do you realize that you are probably no more than two or three paychecks away from being homeless?
There but for the grace of God ....
Live out of the back of your car under the bridge down by the river for a couple of winters and get back to me on that.
Well said. :yes:
Hey 'me'! Hank!
I found the perfect news site for you! And it's all true!
http://now8news.com/ (http://now8news.com/)
Once again I am forced to reflect on the absolute need for human beings to forget the damned lessons of history so that we can repeat them again.
Just so we are clear, those opposing birth control and abortion are relegating society to once again go through the coat hanger, back room abortion horrors that were the reality prior to the legalization of abortion via Roe vs Wade.
Yes, it's been quite some time, but be prepared because your blood relations will become victims of this totally unnecessary slaughter that we will see once again if you are successful in abolishing these things.
Look it up, do a little research. TRY to anyway. Do you really want to go there? :roll eyes: Again? :roll eyes:
Planned Parenthood is an outgrowth of the efforts to stem teen pregnancies. Did they sell fetal body parts? Perhaps. But the jury is still out on that for fucks sake!
Get a fucking grip people! You're letting religious zealotry lead you down the primrose path, diverting your attention from the fact there are nearly 1.5 dozen outright idiots vying for the highest office in the nation. :rant: And one of them is likely to get in thanks to this horse shit and other initiatives.
I have another thought. The SCOTUS decided the abortion thing a long time ago, and it has been reaffirmed many times since. ACA is also the law of the land and has also been reaffirmed by the SCOTUS several times.
If you feel so strongly about both of these things, then the solution is really simple; GET THE FUCK OUT! :rant: Go to Canada, England; go anywhere but here. Just stop mucking up the works with your emotional bullshit already! :rant:
Nope not going any where, just going to keep voting until I get the right people in there that fixes things the way, myself and million of other good Americans think.
It is that simple. :yes:
I stand STRONG on my feelings...and will not back down. You guys have a bad way of sterotyping people. I never ONCE said I was against affordable contraception. Just FREE contraception. Especially to those who would rather get a new tattoo over being responsible.......Everybody needs to buck up.
You may be right, I may be a nickel shy of being poor....God willing I will not have to go there...It still will never change my stance on the f'ks out there who take advantage of a good system....I'm all for helping the down and out..........but we have millions out there that are there because a political ideology called the democrat party. As long as there is a carrot dangling in front these people, the Dems KNOW they have their vote....exactly the reason as to why they LOVE illegal immigrants to come into this nation without going thru the proper channels.......it is MORE votes.
Chew on that... :yes:
:puke:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 13, 2015, 10:13:02 AM
Nope not going any where, just going to keep voting until I get the right people in there that fixes things the way, myself and million of other good Americans think.
It is that simple. :yes:
I stand STRONG on my feelings...and will not back down. You guys have a bad way of sterotyping people. I never ONCE said I was against affordable contraception. Just FREE contraception. Especially to those who would rather get a new tattoo over being responsible.......Everybody needs to buck up.
You may be right, I may be a nickel shy of being poor....God willing I will not have to go there...It still will never change my stance on the f'ks out there who take advantage of a good system....I'm all for helping the down and out..........but we have millions out there that are there because a political ideology called the democrat party. As long as there is a carrot dangling in front these people, the Dems KNOW they have their vote....exactly the reason as to why they LOVE illegal immigrants to come into this nation without going thru the proper channels.......it is MORE votes.
Chew on that... :yes:
:rolleyes: :spooked: :eek: Henry: The people who cannot afford contraception are the ones who need it the most. As for choosing a tattoo over contraception, how about some proof of that?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 13, 2015, 10:13:02 AM
It still will never change my stance on the f'ks out there who take advantage of a good system....I'm all for helping the down and out..........but we have millions out there that are there because a political ideology called the democrat party. As long as there is a carrot dangling in front these people, the Dems KNOW they have their vote....
Those people are just following the law...just like you!
And by the way, when's the last time a Republican made any substantial changes to the welfare system?
And another thing...where is your self-righteous indignation for corporate welfare whose numbers dwarf social welfare programs?
Blah, blah blah... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 13, 2015, 04:07:02 PM
Blah, blah blah... :rolleyes:
Yeah, that's what I thought. You don't really give a shit about welfare; this is really about race with your ilk.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 14, 2015, 08:29:36 AM
Yeah, that's what I thought. You don't really give a shit about welfare; this is really about race with your ilk.
You just proved to me that you really do not know what you are talking about...when you say stuff like this.....you just blow off. My blah, blah blah statement has as much value to it as yours.
Oh, I definitely know what I'm talking about.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 14, 2015, 10:03:17 AM
Oh, I definitely know what I'm talking about.
No, you don't. When you make some of your statements, it is very obvious that you don't. THAT IS A FACT.
That is actually an opinion. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on August 14, 2015, 12:29:26 PM
That is actually an opinion. :rolleyes:
Based upon facts....
You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the ass. That is a fact!
Quote from: Exterminator on August 14, 2015, 01:51:45 PM
You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the ass. That is a fact!
There you go again......
I do not know what to say regarding what I'm posting below, except that it made me physically ill and I cannot get it out of my mind. This little boy wasn't aborted, and got his chance at life, so where were all the people who wanted to adopt an unwanted abused child? All I know is that for him, abortion would have been relatively quick and perhaps painless, while his chance at life gave him this:
(I repeat what I wrote in an earlier post: Every child who could be born should not be born.)
Blanca Rosa Reyes and Jonathan Navarrete-Turcios (Montgomery County Police)
By Julie Zauzmer and Elizabeth Koh August 14, 2015
A Montgomery County toddler died after weeks of abuse and neglect at the hands of his parents, county authorities said.
County police on Thursday arrested Blanca Rosa Reyes, 24, and Jonathan Navarrete-Turcios, 30, of Silver Spring on charges of second-degree murder, child abuse and neglect in the death of their son Matthew Navarrete-Reyes, who was 2 when he died in February.
During a court hearing Friday afternoon, prosecutor Ryan Wechsler said that when the child died, he was "covered from head to toe in bruises and lacerations," including behind his ears, over his face, and on his extremities — "places where it is not normal for children who are mobile" to get hurt.
Police said the boy's parents took him to the hospital on Feb. 13, dehydrated and battered. After his death, according to court documents, the parents told police about several injuries their son suffered in the preceding weeks.
Three weeks before his death, the couple reportedly told police, Reyes left Matthew sitting on the edge of the kitchen table while she went to check on one of the couple's two other children. He fell off. Reyes found him bleeding on the floor and thought he had cut his lip, she told police.
Reyes and Navarrete-Turcios told investigators that it was only the next night that they noticed that two of Matthew's teeth had been knocked out. They told investigators that he seemed to be all right, so they did not seek medical treatment for him.
Four or five days before his death, Reyes grew frustrated when Matthew was chewing on his utensil instead of eating. She hit him in the mouth, the court documents said.
About two days after that, he fell off a chair, the documents said. His parents said he had an oozing egg-size lump on the back of his head from that fall.
When investigators asked why they did not take him to a doctor after that, Reyes said, "His teeth had already fallen. I thought I would get in trouble for not being responsible," according to the court documents.
So they did nothing, according to the documents, and the day before Matthew died, he fell again while standing up. He could not support his head after that, his parents said, and they spent the day holding his neck with their hands to keep his head up.
They tried to feed their increasingly lethargic son, but he vomited repeatedly, the couple told police.
The couple told investigators that they put him to bed, and only when Reyes checked on him in the middle of the night and found him moaning did they take him to a hospital.
Forty minutes after they arrived, Matthew was dead.
In June, the Maryland medical examiner's office concluded that Matthew had suffered from dehydration, pneumonia and oral trauma. The office ruled his death a homicide.
In court Friday, Wechsler said that when Matthew was born, he tested positive for the drug methadone in his system, indicating Reyes used drugs while she was pregnant. Her children were taken into protective custody at the time but later were returned.
A county police spokesman, Capt. Paul Starks, said that the couple's two living children are again in the custody of Child Protective Services.
During the parents' court appearances, Montgomery District Judge Margaret M. Schweitzer upheld bond at $800,000 for Reyes and $750,000 for Navarrete-Turcios.
On the different amounts,Ramon V. Korionoff, spokesman for the state's attorney's office, said, "Sometimes commissioners have differing opinions on who's more culpable."
Defense attorneys, who declined to comment outside court, said that Navarrete-Turcios moved from California about a year ago to find better work in the Washington area and that Reyes followed him about three months later. Navarrete-Turcios recently got a commercial construction job, and Reyes started work at a Burger King about two months ago.
Dan Morse and Jenna Portnoy contributed to this report.
Julie Zauzmer is a local news reporter.
Elizabeth Koh reports on local politics for The Washington Post.
www.washingtonpost.com
The children should have been removed from the home when they found out she used drugs while pregnant but considering they were in Cal at the time of the birth it isn't surprising that they didn't.
Quote from: me on August 18, 2015, 01:46:42 PM
The children should have been removed from the home when they found out she used drugs while pregnant but considering they were in Cal at the time of the birth it isn't surprising that they didn't.
Cali has nothing to do with it. The exact same thing would have resulted if they had been in Indiana. . . and a host of other U.S. States. . .
This whole "fiscal responsibility" thing conservatives have been running around hawking has been improperly labeled. It should be "fiscal irresponsibility" and there are a number of individuals that should be swinging from the yard-arm for it.
I've been saying all along that I am all for trimming the fat, but their choices started with the least amongst us because in their view they are the low hanging fruit. The problem is it resulted in massive revenue stream losses to those entities within government that support the poor; including DCFS and it's various acronyms across the nation.
So, like Indiana, most states are struggling with case-workers bearing two, three, and four times the recommended case loads because of the resulting headcount losses due to ill advised budgetary cuts. We're talking about the human beings whose job it is to deal with other human beings in crises. That safety net is now more of a sieve than the Colts defensive line because of it; nation-wide.
And make no mistake, that case load has indeed risen because of the "economic decline" that was driven by some extremely poor governmental decisions, including; deregulation of the financial district, insurance, (including healthcare and home, financial), and a whole host of additional horse hockey that has been going on for well in excess of a decade preceding the 2007 start of the collapse.
This crap drove millions of people out of their homes, out of their jobs, and into the various social safety nets; and despite decades of abuse of these programs by a comparatively small group, our "elected leadership" chose this time period to begin conducting whole-sale cuts and started with those very programs at a time when they were desperately needed.
This is nothing new, or shouldn't be for those of you that were around back in 2007. I've been saying this would happen since then and here we are! Surprised? :rolleyes:
The awful story I posted above was one of many. The Washington Post has changed hands and the new owner seems to be at times focusing more on the :eek: news. I've read the WP for decades; the original owner leaned more toward the genteel, like turning one's head and pretending not to notice the beggars, the obviously homeless walking down the side of the road.
The county I live in is a rich one, and I have to say we seem to do a lot for the homeless and poor and disadvantaged. There's a homeless shelter on Route 1 not far from where I live; actually, it's on Ft. Belvoir property. My son and I used to drop off clothes and food and other stuff there, but the last time I was there they directed me to a big United Methodist Church in Alexandria which has more room and also operates a soup kitchen. I took my son's clothes there after he passed away.
And speaking of churches, the big Catholic church, also not far from my home, has had a big sign out front for months:
Pregnant? Need Help? Call: (phone number provided.)
I think one of the problems is the obsession with keeping the family together no matter what. It takes so long and so much work to terminate parental rights. In the meantime the children are in limbo, foster homes or group homes. There are a lot of things that need changed and yes, one of them is the need for more case workers, but we all probably see people who shouldn't have children and know there is nothing that can be done. I would venture a guess that a number of those people would never ever consider abortion.
Quote from: Anne on August 24, 2015, 03:14:31 PM
I think one of the problems is the obsession with keeping the family together no matter what. It takes so long and so much work to terminate parental rights. In the meantime the children are in limbo, foster homes or group homes. There are a lot of things that need changed and yes, one of them is the need for more case workers, but we all probably see people who shouldn't have children and know there is nothing that can be done. I would venture a guess that a number of those people would never ever consider abortion.
That is part of the problem and too many times the social workers will return a child even though there has been abuses of all kinds in the home!
[/quote]
Quote from: Anne on August 24, 2015, 03:14:31 PM
I think one of the problems is the obsession with keeping the family together no matter what. It takes so long and so much work to terminate parental rights. In the meantime the children are in limbo, foster homes or group homes. There are a lot of things that need changed and yes, one of them is the need for more case workers, but we all probably see people who shouldn't have children and know there is nothing that can be done. I would venture a guess that a number of those people would never ever consider abortion.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 24, 2015, 07:58:28 PM
That is part of the problem and too many times the social workers will return a child even though there has been abuses of all kinds in the home!
Here's another horrible story of infanticide from yesterday's Washington Post. There have been more - in recent memory - but I think I was 'too busy' to get around to reading them. Truth: they hurt too much. I can't get them out of my mind.
washingtonpost.com
Infant girl in Maryland abuse case had most of her ribs broken
Maryland couple charged in murder of 10-week-old baby
Play Video2:44
Robert Alan Davidson, 24, of Rockville, Md., is being held on a $5 million bond in the murder and sexual abuse of his 10-week-old daughter. The mother of the infant, Lorena Thompson, posted bond on Monday and faces charges of child abuse and neglect. (WUSA9)
By Dan Morse August 24 at 9:22 PM
The autopsy of a 10-week-old infant who police say was sexually abused and killed by her father showed that all but two of the girl's ribs were broken, a Maryland prosecutor said in court Monday.
The prosecutor was arguing that Robert Alan Davidson, 24, should continue to be held on the $5 million bond that was set when he was booked into jail Saturday on charges of sexual abuse of a minor, second-degree murder and other counts. Montgomery County District Judge Barry Hamilton agreed.
"The horrific, horrendous, despicable nature of this crime can't possibly be overstated," Hamilton said.
The child, Aleah Thompson, died of blunt-force injuries, authorities said.
Police allege that Davidson, Aleah's father, touched her in private areas in a way that constituted sexual abuse. Police also said in court papers that he admitted to detectives that he dropped Aleah several times and shook her aggressively.
Mapping homicides in the District and the surrounding suburbs since 2000. View Graphic
An autopsy showed that Aleah was below the fifth percentile for body weight compared with other infants of the same age, authorities said. They said her parents did not seek appropriate medical care after her injuries.
John Lavigne, a public defender who represented Davidson in court Monday, did not address the specific allegations. He told the judge that Davidson, who lives in Rockville, does not have an adult criminal record, cooperated with police and has been employed at a local restaurant for three years.
The hearing underscored the difference in the allegations leveled against Davidson and the child's mother, Lorena Thompson, 22, who also is charged in the case.
Thompson graduated from high school in Northern Virginia, has no criminal record, has a 5-year-old son from a previous relationship and was working as a cook for Met Bethesda for the past nine months, said her attorney, Theresa Chernosky.
"There were no injuries attributable to my client," Chernosky said. She later said, "We're hoping that her job may still be available to her."
[Earlier: Maryland couple charged in death of 10-week-old girl]
Prosecutor Cynthia Bridgford said her office is pursuing abuse charges against Thompson under the legal theory of failing to protect a child. Thompson allegedly knew that the baby was injured while she was at work and had talked to Davidson about the injuries.
Still, Bridgford agreed with Chernosky that none of the child's injuries were attributed to the mother. Based on the evidence, Hamilton, the judge, said that "every arrow points directly at Mr. Davidson."
Hamilton then said he would make Thompson's bond an unsecured type, meaning she could be easily released from jail pending further action in her case. Just before doing so, Hamilton said, "What I am about to do in no way, shape, form or fashion is to at all minimize the horror of this crime, and the apparent involvement of Ms. Thompson."
Thompson posted bond after the hearing and was released from custody, according to court records.
Dan Morse covers courts and crime in Montgomery County. He arrived at the paper in 2005, after reporting stops at the Wall Street Journal, Baltimore Sun and Montgomery (Ala.) Advertiser, where he was a Pulitzer Prize finalist. He is the author of The Yoga Store Murder.
Pastor Craig Conner (Pastor of First Baptist Church of Panama City, FL) obviously doesn't use his brain. Conner argued that the federal government was spending $540 million a year to fund Planned Parenthood.
"Friend, that offends me," he explained. "And honestly, I was talking to the Lord about this just the other day and I said, 'Lord, I can't continue this.' You know if Planned Parenthood is not defunded, I just may stop paying taxes. I know that I'll go to jail for it."
"You want to talk about reducing the national debt?" Conner continued. "We could reduce it overnight if they would defund this evil organization and put it on the national debt. Man, we could get out of debt immediately."
How stupid can you get?
Quote from: AbbyTC on August 25, 2015, 09:17:56 PM
Pastor Craig Conner (Pastor of First Baptist Church of Panama City, FL) obviously doesn't use his brain. Conner argued that the federal government was spending $540 million a year to fund Planned Parenthood.
"Friend, that offends me," he explained. "And honestly, I was talking to the Lord about this just the other day and I said, 'Lord, I can't continue this.' You know if Planned Parenthood is not defunded, I just may stop paying taxes. I know that I'll go to jail for it."
"You want to talk about reducing the national debt?" Conner continued. "We could reduce it overnight if they would defund this evil organization and put it on the national debt. Man, we could get out of debt immediately."
How stupid can you get?
Yeah, that IS pretty moronic....no argument from me.
To be clear, Republicans do not only want to defund Planned Parenthood; they want to defund Title X, for which, the $300 million price tag saves U.S. taxpayers approximately $4 billion annually in Medicaid birth-related costs.
Quote from: Exterminator on August 26, 2015, 10:21:27 AM
To be clear, Republicans do not only want to defund Planned Parenthood; they want to defund Title X, for which, the $300 million price tag saves U.S. taxpayers approximately $4 billion annually in Medicaid birth-related costs.
Name me one good thing that the Republicans have come up with that is good for women, children, old people, poor people and the American middle class. The fucking bastards are only for the corporations and the super rich that own them. Yet these stupid asshole Christians keep voting for them. :knife: :yes:
:det:
The RW's entire stance on sex - and that includes abortion, PP, etc. - is ALL religion based and is NOTHING more than an attempt to shove the RW's religious beliefs down everyone else's throats. :icon_evil:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 13, 2015, 10:13:02 AM
Nope not going any where, just going to keep voting until I get the right people in there that fixes things the way, myself and million of other good Americans think.
My GAWD but you're stupid! This country is based on rights and the rule of law, NOT on what you demented, racist, reactionaries 'think'. We've seen what you 'think', and we don't want ANY part of it. You and your ilk are simply small minded, authoritarian, control freaks of which we've seen far too many of throughout history.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 13, 2015, 10:13:02 AMI never ONCE said I was against affordable contraception. Just FREE contraception.
If you had even a lick of sense you'd understand that any modern society should include public health care. It's one of those things a thinking society chooses to invest in itself - like education, infrastructure, etc...NOT military, wars, corporations, etc.
Now the truth REALLY comes out.
~~~~~~~
Washington (CNN)A Texas investigation into Planned Parenthood on Monday culminated in an indictment -- of the organization's accusers instead of the group.
The Harris County District Attorney's office announced that Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast had been cleared in the two-month-long investigation.
But the grand jury did indict two individuals who were involved in making secret recordings of the group that were released to publicly discredit the group, which provides health services and abortions.
David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt were indicted for tampering with a governmental record, a second-degree felony, and Daleiden was also indicted on the count of prohibition of the purchase and sale of human organs, a class A misdemeanor, according to the Harris County district attorney.
According to the Harris County District Clerk's website, a warrant for Daleiden had been issued Monday evening. Daleiden's Twitter profile identifies his residence as Irvine, California, where his group, the Center for Medical Progress, is located. The indictments were not yet available.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/politics/planned-parenthood-activists-indicted/index.html)
Quote from: Locutus on January 26, 2016, 02:25:13 PM
Now the truth REALLY comes out.
~~~~~~~
Washington (CNN)A Texas investigation into Planned Parenthood on Monday culminated in an indictment -- of the organization's accusers instead of the group.
The Harris County District Attorney's office announced that Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast had been cleared in the two-month-long investigation.
But the grand jury did indict two individuals who were involved in making secret recordings of the group that were released to publicly discredit the group, which provides health services and abortions.
David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt were indicted for tampering with a governmental record, a second-degree felony, and Daleiden was also indicted on the count of prohibition of the purchase and sale of human organs, a class A misdemeanor, according to the Harris County district attorney.
According to the Harris County District Clerk's website, a warrant for Daleiden had been issued Monday evening. Daleiden's Twitter profile identifies his residence as Irvine, California, where his group, the Center for Medical Progress, is located. The indictments were not yet available.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/politics/planned-parenthood-activists-indicted/index.html)
No surprise there.
Quote from: Locutus on January 26, 2016, 02:25:13 PM
Now the truth REALLY comes out.
~~~~~~~
Washington (CNN)A Texas investigation into Planned Parenthood on Monday culminated in an indictment -- of the organization's accusers instead of the group.
The Harris County District Attorney's office announced that Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast had been cleared in the two-month-long investigation.
But the grand jury did indict two individuals who were involved in making secret recordings of the group that were released to publicly discredit the group, which provides health services and abortions.
David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt were indicted for tampering with a governmental record, a second-degree felony, and Daleiden was also indicted on the count of prohibition of the purchase and sale of human organs, a class A misdemeanor, according to the Harris County district attorney.
According to the Harris County District Clerk's website, a warrant for Daleiden had been issued Monday evening. Daleiden's Twitter profile identifies his residence as Irvine, California, where his group, the Center for Medical Progress, is located. The indictments were not yet available.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/politics/planned-parenthood-activists-indicted/index.html)
I'm happy but surprised. Planned Parenthood does a lot of good, but the good guys don't always win.
Quote from: libby on January 26, 2016, 10:34:36 PM
I'm happy but surprised. Planned Parenthood does a lot of good, but the good guys don't always win.
And the sour grapes coming from the likes of Faux News and the ultra conservative ilk, is no surprise either. . . :roll eyes:
I guess they now know more than judges do! :rolleyes:
I am so glad that the lying, murdering, morons antiabortionists are getting what they deserve. I would like to see some prison time. :haha: :rotfl: