Don Blankinship, the CEO of the coal mine where 29 miners were killed. What should the government do to him.
Good old Don made $30 Million last year. He would rather pay the fines, than make it safe for the workers. "To hell with the violations, run more coal:, he said. He told each miner that if they voted for a union, he would close down the mine.
For you moral people, what should they do. For you people to thinks the union is bad, what do you think and why.
The Troll :rant:
for starters, he is providing benefits that are designed to ensure that no family will have to worry about missing a paycheck, paying a medical bill or sending a child to college...and they are being provided without any obligation by the families to agree to any settlement....and that is the least that he could do, and he IS arising to that.
as far as what the gov should do to him, well, why hasn't the gov already done something?...IF, there was so much wrong, why didn't THEY act responsibly? why just set fines?, why didn't they close him down if it was that unsafe?
He may be the biggest prick in history, I don't know, but there are gov officials who have blood on their hands as much as Blankenship does....
and for the record, I don't think ALL unions are bad, just the UAW in particular, is what I think of as a BAD Union....they got greedy and corrupt, as much as the owners may have.
He and his board adopted a procedure to fight EVERY violation (much like Ford's decision about the exploding Pinto) because the dilatory tactics cost less than paying the fines immediately and having to fix the problems -- like the faulty ventilation system.
Quote from: followsthewolf on April 15, 2010, 05:11:44 PM
He and his board adopted a procedure to fight EVERY violation (much like Ford's decision about the exploding Pinto) because the dilatory tactics cost less than paying the fines immediately and having to fix the problems -- like the faulty ventilation system.
but wrong is wrong and where was OSHA and those who imposed the violations?.....okay, he IS a dick, but the higher ups let him by with violations....I say there are bigger fish to fry other than Blankinship....(not that he is innocent I mind you)
The company is protected by the legal procedures surrounding the violations. Massey Energy knew that; it is why they adopted the strategy.
EVERY corporation plays the "loophole" game. Massey just rolls the dice with people's lives.
What he has offered the families of those 29 miners is a piss in the ocean compared to what they would have had to pay to fix the hundreds of violations they have racked up. His Board of Directors is orgasmic over his moves and the offers of assistance he made when Harry "No Balls at All" Smith tossed him those softball questions back at the beginning of this heartbreaking drama.
He does not give a damn about lives, he cares about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
He is a murderer.
And these are the exact entities the SCOTUS decision empowered with "constitutional rights"!
IIRC the MSHA is the governing body over this industry, and reports I've heard (note - media cyber-babble) indicate that the involved mines safety records and incident levels are at or below industry standard.
The bottom line though is that leadership's delaying tactics and utilization of procedural loop holes resulted in the deaths of 29 human beings. (2 of them cousins of mine). Since I have an emotional connection to this incident I'll refrain from stating what I believe proper corrective action(s) should be pursued. . . :hanged:
Quote from: followsthewolf on April 15, 2010, 05:25:21 PM
The company is protected by the legal procedures surrounding the violations. Massey Energy knew that; it is why they adopted the strategy.
EVERY corporation plays the "loophole" game. Massey just rolls the dice with people's lives.
What he has offered the families of those 29 miners is a piss in the ocean compared to what they would have had to pay to fix the hundreds of violations they have racked up. ...
Excellent post, FTW. The mine disaster is just another example of the way this country is run by lobbyists and corporate greed. Henry is right, too. Our government colluded in the practices that brought about this horror. As they did with the exploding Pinto, and as they continue to do with companies that knowingly hire illegal aliens. Somebody is making a pile of cash from all these examples of malfeasance. Like Palehorse, I am restrained from posting my idea of proper retribution for anyone who made a nickel off them.
I have no personal connection with the incident, which is why I have no compunction about saying that he and his management team should be tried as co-conspirators in 29 counts of first-degree felony murder.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 15, 2010, 04:02:05 PM
for starters, he is providing benefits that are designed to ensure that no family will have to worry about missing a paycheck, paying a medical bill or sending a child to college...and they are being provided without any obligation by the families to agree to any settlement....and that is the least that he could do, and he IS arising to that.
as far as what the gov should do to him, well, why hasn't the gov already done something?...IF, there was so much wrong, why didn't THEY act responsibly? why just set fines?, why didn't they close him down if it was that unsafe?
He may be the biggest prick in history, I don't know, but there are gov officials who have blood on their hands as much as Blankenship does....
and for the record, I don't think ALL unions are bad, just the UAW in particular, is what I think of as a BAD Union....they got greedy and corrupt, as much as the owners may have.
Henry, how in hell can a person who has never worked in automobile manufacturing. Who never worked on a assembly line, who never worked running the big dirty smoky oil and coolent covered machines. Say that he hated the UAW. :stupid:
I'll tell you what Dude, come with me to the next retiree meeting we have each month at Local 111 UAW and I'll have you introduced to the retirees. Being a preacher, I'll let you get up in front of the Ford UAW retired workers and you can testify on how you hate the bad UAW and tell the men how greedy and how selfish UAW was getting help for their members and the bad union broke GM and the automobile industry. I would you see you hung. :hanged:
You talk about how these men were making all of that money and sending their kids to college.
Well, I couldn't find how much Massey Coal Company pays their men per hour. Because they pay their miners on the piece rate. How much coal they run. I worked piece work job once, it the most unfair way to pay a person. The company set the rates fairly :pigfly: It sure is a killer. :sick:
Henry, nonunion miners are paid, 30% to 40% less than a union miner. One of the most dangerous job in the country. They make $35,000 to $40,000 a year and you call this great. :genius:
With all of that high pay, I can see college for all of their kids. New cars, $150,000 homes and fine vacations and cruises. :sarcasm:
Henry, for a Jesus loving man, you are sure a mean man. :jc:
The Troll :no1:
I never once said that coal miners was making too much money, not once....I never said I was against them forming a union either....as far as that goes, I am not defending blankenship, I said he may be a big prick....How am I mean?
Just because I don't like how the UAW handled themselves back in the late 70's and 80's?....they DID get TOO greedy and I will NEVER back down from that statement....I did not work there, but I was related to many who did, and ONE in particular (an uncle) who was part of the UAW board....used to brag about gouging the owners, getting paid for screwing around (fishing trips, vegas, golf outings)....they kept pushing and pushing for higher wages, more time off with pay...having outside contractors come in to fix things, and HAD to have a UAW boy beside them them the whole time, NOT doing anything but getting full pay....it is crap like that that I have NO respect for....then when things went south, they whined and cried how the owners was screwing them.....I know this for a fact....so screw off..... :rant: :rant: ..it get's my blood boiling just talking about it.....those guys had a great thing going at one time, and they blew it .....now Anderson is a ghost town....
If THIS makes ME mean, then fine, but I think it was the UAW mentality who was mean....
as far as the coalminers, I have nothing but sorrow and grief for those guys.....they do NOT get paid nearly enough to risk their lives....and IF Blankenship did wrong, (and I'm sure he did) WHY didn't those who are supposed to protect these coalminers do their job?.......why did they just allow fines and NOT make the owner do the right thing?.........WHY? :confused:
I'll tell you, they was corrupt and was probably bought off.....so maybe we should start with hanging those guys!!
good night,
Hank
Henry, I get so sick of you assholes, who keep saying. "I never worked there, but, I had a friend, a relative or someone else, who did and, they said." You people just talk bullshit. :azz:
"You people: are just full of bullshit. The UAW pulling GM, Ford and Chrysler down and the UAW killing Anderson. :bsflag: I'll tell you who PULLED ALL OF THE AMERICAN COMPANIES DOWN. It was the cheap ass American people, who to save 25 cents of some item, would buy a piece of foreign shit. Just like a little old Christian white haired lady. in her late 60's, in Noblesville, who just this year bought her brand new , bright red Toyota, with the Christian fish of the back, God Help Our Troops and God Bless America and American flag signs on the back of the damn foreign piece of shit (will it stop) Who thinks that Walmart the the only place to shop and complains that she "JUST CAN'T FIND ANYTHING MADE IN AMERICA." To buy :wacko::flap: :flap:
This all started under Reagan and Newt's contract for America. The Republican Party who worships at the feet of large corporations, the Super Predatory Capitalist bankers, Wall Street Stock Brokers and some how has talked you poor assholes, who hardly have two nickles to rub together, to worship at the feet of the Super Rich people and kiss their asses. :suck: :suck: :suck:
Henry if you and people who never worked at an auto plant, all you have is second hand half assed information. Why don't you keep you asshole mouth shut. Even tho in your lives, bullshit rules. ":yeah: :salute:
The Troll :no1: :seeya2:
Henry Hawk posted:
"as far as the coalminers, I have nothing but sorrow and grief for those guys.....they do NOT get paid nearly enough to risk their lives....and IF Blankenship did wrong, (and I'm sure he did) WHY didn't those who are supposed to protect these coalminers do their job?.......why did they just allow fines and NOT make the owner do the right thing?.........WHY?
I'll tell you, they was corrupt and was probably bought off.....so maybe we should start with hanging those guys"
Henry--
The regulatory agencies pushed as far as they could with the laws they had to work with. It was Massey Energy (and other large coal mining companies) who discovered that they could kill people and save money by throwing massive litigation at the violations. They made a conscious and cold-blooded decision to trade lives for profits, just like the early days of the industrial revolution. The regulatory agencies can only work within the laws provided by state and federal governments.
Massey Energy also threatened lockouts if the miners tried to organize into a union to improve their conditions.
Regulatory agencies are working with no teeth in the laws they are obligated to enforce. Guess who was in control of Congress when these laws were passed?
Quote from: The Troll on April 16, 2010, 07:28:19 AM
Henry, I get so sick of you assholes, who keep saying. "I never worked there, but, I had a friend, a relative or someone else, who did and, they said." You people just talk bullshit. :azz:
"You people: are just full of bullshit. The UAW pulling GM, Ford and Chrysler down and the UAW killing Anderson. :bsflag: I'll tell you who PULLED ALL OF THE AMERICAN COMPANIES DOWN. It was the cheap ass American people, who to save 25 cents of some item, would buy a piece of foreign shit. Just like a little old Christian white haired lady. in her late 60's, in Noblesville, who just this year bought her brand new , bright red Toyota, with the Christian fish of the back, God Help Our Troops and God Bless America and American flag signs on the back of the damn foreign piece of shit (will it stop) Who thinks that Walmart the the only place to shop and complains that she "JUST CAN'T FIND ANYTHING MADE IN AMERICA." To buy :wacko: :flap: :flap:
This all started under Reagan and Newt's contract for America. The Republican Party who worships at the feet of large corporations, the Super Predatory Capitalist bankers, Wall Street Stock Brokers and some how has talked you poor assholes, who hardly have two nickles to rub together, to worship at the feet of the Super Rich people and kiss their asses. :suck: :suck: :suck:
Henry if you and people who never worked at an auto plant, all you have is second hand half assed information. Why don't you keep you asshole mouth shut. Even tho in your lives, bullshit rules. " :yeah: :salute:
The Troll :no1: :seeya2:
TROLL, suck it!!!... :razz:
first of all, I'm getting sick of how the little old Christian ladies are ruining this country crap!!... :razz: :rolleyes:
second, for your "half assed" information....Toyoto has four of the top ten American made cars in this country, the camry is more american than the Ford 150 and the Chevy Silverado....so that old blue hair has probably done more to help America than YOU have ;) :eek:
third, you can say what you want, but you will NEVER convince me any differently, because I personaly seen with my own eyes, that the local UAW ruined any chances that I ever had to go to work at Delco or Guide, because of the personal greed that the local union reps had and abused what was possibly a great thing...they shit it all down the toilet...and now those POS are now sitting all happy and snug drawing a nice pension and getting kick ass health care, while Anderson is knocking down those old buildings and planting grass seed, and closing high schools....it is 100% the UAW's fault ..... PERIOD!!.. :rant: ....so YOU suck it!! :razz:
and forth and foremost....all of this started with NAFTA, which was signed into law by Bill Clinton....
Hank, :) :razz: :police:
Quote from: The Troll on April 16, 2010, 07:28:19 AM
Henry, I get so sick of you assholes, who keep saying. "I never worked there, but, I had a friend, a relative or someone else, who did and, they said." You people just talk bullshit. :azz:
. . .
Troll:
Before I go off on your ass let me just get a little clarification from you surrounding your intended definition of "You people. . ."
Are you utilizing such a wide ranging descriptor in general, or are you intentionally using it to include everyone who may have had a friend or relative working within the mining incident? Moreover, what are your flaming attacks toward anyone within this forum who happens to hold a perspective that differs from your own intended to accomplish? Historically I have found that individuals utilizing such methods have severe self-esteem issues.
There are ways to get your point(s) across that are a lot more constructive and include the utilization of data, educational works, papers, articles, etc. and the inclusion of links and/or citations so that people will have the opportunity to absorb them and better understand your position(s).
Your standard MO of trying to ram bullshit down the throats of participants won't play well here or anywhere else for that matter. Say it and it is so validation is unacceptable to anyone who maintains even a modicum of credibility, and thus far your credibility is zero with a lot of people. (Back your statements with sources and expect to be challenged when those sources are questionable).
You want respect and credibility, then earn it. Otherwise you leave the field strewn with broken relationships and no better off than when you started.
I'll await your response surrounding my request for clarification.
Oh.....thank you Palehorse for posting that. Someone needed to say it.
:pfight: I thought those were bottles when I first put them up
I guess they are pillows huh lol. I thought they were bottles too. :biggrin:
REPOST SO IT DOESN'T GET BURIED
Troll:
Before I go off on your ass let me just get a little clarification from you surrounding your intended definition of "You people. . ."
Are you utilizing such a wide ranging descriptor in general, or are you intentionally using it to include everyone who may have had a friend or relative working within the mining incident?
Moreover, what are your flaming attacks toward anyone within this forum who happens to hold a perspective that differs from your own intended to accomplish? Historically I have found that individuals utilizing such methods have severe self-esteem issues.
There are ways to get your point(s) across that are a lot more constructive and include the utilization of data, educational works, papers, articles, etc. and the inclusion of links and/or citations so that people will have the opportunity to absorb them and better understand your position(s).
Your standard MO of trying to ram bullshit down the throats of participants won't play well here or anywhere else for that matter. Say it and it is so validation is unacceptable to anyone who maintains even a modicum of credibility, and thus far your credibility is zero with a lot of people. (Back your statements with sources and expect to be challenged when those sources are questionable).
You want respect and credibility, then earn it. Otherwise you leave the field strewn with broken relationships and no better off than when you started.
I'll await your response surrounding my request for clarification.
THERE IS NO WAY, THAT IS POSSIABLE WAY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE. THE TROLL
Quote from: The Troll on April 16, 2010, 06:29:20 PM
THERE IS NO WAY, THAT IS POSSIABLE WAY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE. THE TROLL
BUT I GOT ONE QUESTION ANSWERED.
Quote from: The Troll on April 16, 2010, 06:29:20 PM
THERE IS NO WAY, THAT IS POSSIABLE WAY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE. THE TROLL
That's what I thought. . . :rolleyes:
Lets try keeping things simple. What were your intentions when you used the phrase "You People"?
Multiple Choice: Just use the corresponding answer that best fits your intention
A - I meant everybody, including everybody.
B - I used it as a "general term" only, to include anyone that has disagreed with me.
C.- I am not sure
I'm not trying to cross swords with you here Troll. I just want to try to help you get your point across if I can, and understand what your position is.
Matter of fact, I tend to agree with your positions a lot, but not necessarily the terminology or style you use in expressing them. . . I have a strong affinity with those who find them selves with such challenges, because I am one of them. I've just been working on it for awhile. . .
The best way to do that is for me to point out how what you meant gets interpreted as something entirely different, just because of how you wrote it. The written word is a different animal than the spoken one. Body language, tone, inflection are all muted form the dialog and thus a reader is left to interpret what a writer is saying or intends to say, unless the writer makes a concerted effort to emphasize and clarify each and every point.
Sounds hard, but once you work at it, its as easy as sweating pipe.
Quote from: Palehorse on April 16, 2010, 09:38:59 PM
I'm not trying to cross swords with you here Troll. I just want to try to help you get your point across if I can, and understand what your position is.
Matter of fact, I tend to agree with your positions a lot, but not necessarily the terminology or style you use in expressing them. . . I have a strong affinity with those who find them selves with such challenges, because I am one of them. I've just been working on it for awhile. . .
The best way to do that is for me to point out how what you meant gets interpreted as something entirely different, just because of how you wrote it. The written word is a different animal than the spoken one. Body language, tone, inflection are all muted form the dialog and thus a reader is left to interpret what a writer is saying or intends to say, unless the writer makes a concerted effort to emphasize and clarify each and every point.
Sounds hard, but once you work at it, its as easy as sweating pipe.
Palehorse, you telling me, I got to talk to the people of the forum, like I talk to my wife. I'll be talking to her and all of a sudden she get mad. I'll say what did I say that bothered you. She would say, it's not what you said, it's was the tone, it the way you said it.
Honest, I didn't think I'd said anything but the truth. It was the tone, the way I said it, and the "look" on my face. Especially when I say, "YES HONEY" I never thought that other people was a touchy as my wife. She who rules. ***** whipped Troll.
But, Paleface it does really burns my ass when someone attacks my union, and the unions are what gave us are way of life. The damn Republican Party and the Super Predatory Capitalist have almost destroy the unions. You can see it every day. Lower and lower pay and worst and worst working conditions.
I will try to tone it down. But it will be really hard with all of the crazy rightwing Teabag Party nuts. I would bet one thing, if they got complete control of this country. The first ones to lose their freedom would the the very women to support the party so much and the women can't see it.
The Troll
Quote from: The Troll on April 16, 2010, 10:39:03 PM
Palehorse, you telling me, I got to talk to the people of the forum, like I talk to my wife. I'll be talking to her and all of a sudden she get mad. I'll say what did I say that bothered you. She would say, it's not what you said, it's was the tone, it the way you said it.
Honest, I didn't think I'd said anything but the truth. It was the tone, the way I said it, and the "look" on my face. Especially when I say, "YES HONEY" I never thought that other people was a touchy as my wife. She who rules. ***** whipped Troll.
But, Paleface it does really burns my ass when someone attacks my union, and the unions are what gave us are way of life. The damn Republican Party and the Super Predatory Capitalist have almost destroy the unions. You can see it every day. Lower and lower pay and worst and worst working conditions.
I will try to tone it down. But it will be really hard with all of the crazy rightwing Teabag Party nuts. I would bet one thing, if they got complete control of this country. The first ones to lose their freedom would the the very women to support the party so much and the women can't see it.
The Troll
First and foremost, I'm not telling you that you have to do anything. You are a grown man who has earned the right to do whatever the hell you damned well please, within reason. BUT, in my opinion taking that same approach toward responding to posters here will go a long way toward making your time spent here a little more enjoyable for you and for those who read you as well. I am offering my help to you because I understand how frustrating it can be, and I sincerely hope I can help you out with it because I used to have the same challenge myself. Still do but I work on it. I can help you work on it too if you want.
I know it burns you when those who oppose unions trash them and spout off. There are certain topics that I find equally as frustrating believe me. The thing you have to recognize is that when we respond to those who trash our perspectives it is VERY important to maintain control. Hard to do for guys like us who are used to just getting in the dirt and getting the job done. (Type A personality). Don't get me wrong, kicking ass and taking names has its place, but not necessarily within the written word.
Here, when guys like us unleash a verbal barrage toward our opposition it can easily be interpreted as a personal attack and often is. (Flaming I believe it is called). And when we give in to the beast within and let fly it more often than not ends up with us being frustrated because it usually ends with the opposition winning the battle no matter how pissed off or emotional we become. See, we lose control of our words and thought processes, which allow us to carefully select the words we use to communicate what it is we are intending to say, and they end up winning; not because they are necessarily right or wrong, but because we lost control.
Start with these steps:
1. Control your emotions. NEVER respond when your blood is up, no matter how pissed off a post may make you. I learned this one the hard way, so use my experience to your advantage.
2. Walk away from the computer when you get that way. Spend at least 30 minutes doing something else, but once you start calming down, start thinking about what they said and how you should reply to them.
3. Your computer has word in it right? The program you write letters with? When you get back to your computer open up a word document and start writing your response down in it. Let it flow because no one else is going to be able to read it yet. Let it out and when you are done, save the document. Then, and only then, go back and re-read what it was that made you so angry. But don't respond yet. If the poster becomes impatient and demands a response, just say you'll be responding at a later time and let it go at that. Say nothing more. (If this happens it means you've already gained a slight advantage because now THEY are in danger of losing control).
4. Now, go back and open that document you saved back up in word. Read through it and try to take a neutral position when you are doing it. Be critical of yourself, as critical as you would have been of an apprentice's work you were inspecting. Take out anything that seems like an attack, or that expresses anger, then try rewording it.
5. Aim for keeping your responses short at first, the shorter the better. And try to avoid broad statements like "You people". Instead try using "People who adopt purple dogs" (Example) Adopt Purple dogs could instead be"Are Anti Union". . . Get it?
Once you are satisfied, then go back to the forum, open up the topic to the post that you intend to reply to, hit the quote button, then go to the word document and right click with the mouse to highlight your response and click on copy, then go to the reply box on the forum and right click on the reply box and hit paste. Done.
TAKE YOUR TIME and make sure you are satisfied with your reply and that it doesn't let them win by showing emotions or engaging in flaming. If the poster can't wait a day for you to respond, then it isn't a true response he/she is looking for is it. DON'T Let them win by hurrying the process.Take all the time you need and make sure you are calm before you reply.
At first it will be challenging to follow this, but if you stick with it after awhile it will become automatic and you'll get a lot better at it too.
Quote from: Palehorse on April 16, 2010, 09:04:14 PM
Lets try keeping things simple. What were your intentions when you used the phrase "You People"?
Multiple Choice: Just use the corresponding answer that best fits your intention
A - I meant everybody, including everybody.
B - I used it as a "general term" only, to include anyone that has disagreed with me.
C.- I am not sure
"you people"
It is for the person I am talking to at that point of time. For what that person said at that time.
Also it is for the people who believe what that person believes.
Like someone who doesn't think anyone should have a union. Just to grab one out of the air. I know of one person, who thinks that Walmart employees have no need for a union. Even tho Walmart has an employee turn over of 51% to 53%. If you got good working conditions, nobody is going to quit. The reason that person give is, "I've got two friend who work there and they think it great." Well, I got people who worked there and said, "It's a shit job." Also when I used to shop there, which was years and years ago. I seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears.
The main reason I don't shop Walmart is the way they treat their employees. It was said, in the book, Super Capitalism, by Robert Reich. That Walmart could give their employees a $3 raise per hour and the total labor cost to Walmart would be 3% of the total income of Walmart and the average cost of each Walmart employee is $6500 per year. What a hell of a good place to work.
Hell, you can't buy anything made in America anyway. That why we don't have jobs. Just like some person said, Toyota is one of the best made "American cars". Well, I differ, they don't pay taxes here in America. The states have given them tax freedom of 10 to 15 years. Their creative book keeping, they don't pay their far share of taxes to the government. All of their profit goes to Japan. All of the engineering comes from Japan. All of the decisions comes from Japan. The only American people who work for Toyota are the people work at the highly automated assembly plants. Toyota is now leaving the country to go to a cheaper labor market. Pardon the words, the American dumbasses who stand up for Toyota just can't be very smart.
So if anyone want to take what I say personally. "When I say you people", They believe what they believe and they must believe what the person that's getting hell from me.
Does that answer your question. I'm interested, but I am not an English major.
The Troll.
Troll,
Do you actually 'read' what I write sometimes? or do you just buzz through it and pick up key words and derive at your own conclusion on what you THINK I said?
I never said I don't think anyone should have unions,...I merely expressed MY opinion, based upon my first hand knowledge of the local UAW. I know YOU have a different view and I respect that. You ALWAYS have to assume that I am a Pat Robertson, Bible thumpin, Holy Roller, Union hating, Christian who want's poor people to rot in hell kind of guy.....you don't know crap about me and you start with the "you people" crap about me.....and in some cases you may be right, but in most cases you don't even come close to identifying me with who you claim I am.
You and I will NEVER agree with many issues on here, but I cannot take you serious when you completely mischaractorize my intent and start with your wild attack.
Like I never said Toyota was the best American made car.....what I said was it is the MOST American made car. THAT is a fact......But you went off on a tangent and start in with accusations and on and on and on.
and for what it is worth, Palehorse gives excellent advice, you should try it. I know because he is the one who taught me how to calm down and "try" to write a more reasonable response to things I find outrageous. I obviously am still struggling, but I have grown leaps and bounds from where I was when I started on here.
I actually get along with "nearly" everyone on here, and as you know, I am one of two or three that are right-winged "assholes" as you put it ;) ;D ...but I stick around, because I really DO try to understand WHY those on the left think so differently than I do...(because you are so wrong... :razz: ;) ).....It is late and I am rambling on and on, and I hoped I made an ounce of sense here.....I will talk at you after some sleep.
Hank ;)
Sorry Hank. I do read your post, in fact I read them two or three times, trying to believe what you are saying could come from a good Christian man.
But believe me when I say I will read what you say the forth time, before I throw the Asshole bomb. :trustme:
Some times, when I read your stuff, and we both live here in Madison county. I sometimes think we're from two different planets. We sure are wired different. I'm AC your DC.
The Troll
Quote from: The Troll on April 17, 2010, 08:38:27 AM
Sorry Hank. I do read your post, in fact I read them two or three times, trying to believe what you are saying could come from a good Christian man.
But believe me when I say I will read what you say the forth time, before I throw the Asshole bomb. :trustme:
Some times, when I read your stuff, and we both live here in Madison county. I sometimes think we're from two different planets. We sure are wired different. I'm AC your DC.
The Troll
I disagree with you or you simply don't read well, because there are several posts that you say that I say something that I DID NOT SAY....I think you are simply "jumping the gun" and making your OWN conclusions in "MOST" cases...for instance, I never said I "hate" Unions........I did say, I despise the local UAW, based upon first hand experience....You has also somehow concluded I hate poor people and sick little kids...JUST because I don't particularly like "THIS" healthcare bill....you are correct, we are wired differently to have such vast differences of opinions....but, I think we are NOT apart as you may believe. Troll, YOU are one of the reasons WHY I started on these forums....I HONESTLY want to "try" to understand How and Why, liberals and Conservatives believe so compassionately as we do...I am trying to understand what makes some of "you guys" ( ;) ) think the way you do... :razz: .
People like Palehorse and others on here have done wonders of expressing themselves to where I actually understand WHY they have their beliefs, not that I have changed my views, but I do have a better understanding on "some" key issues.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 19, 2010, 07:24:27 AM
I disagree with you or you simply don't read well, because there are several posts that you say that I say something that I DID NOT SAY....I think you are simply "jumping the gun" and making your OWN conclusions in "MOST" cases...for instance, I never said I "hate" Unions........I did say, I despise the local UAW, based upon first hand experience....You has also somehow concluded I hate poor people and sick little kids...JUST because I don't particularly like "THIS" healthcare bill....you are correct, we are wired differently to have such vast differences of opinions....but, I think we are NOT apart as you may believe. Troll, YOU are one of the reasons WHY I started on these forums....I HONESTLY want to "try" to understand How and Why, liberals and Conservatives believe so compassionately as we do...I am trying to understand what makes some of "you guys" ( ;) ) think the way you do... :razz: .
People like Palehorse and others on here have done wonders of expressing themselves to where I actually understand WHY they have their beliefs, not that I have changed my views, but I do have a better understanding on "some" key issues.
We'll see, and we'll read. I know you had one big brain fart. When you said I was naive. You denied and denied it, couldn't have been you, until one of the fine forum friends remaind you, that you did say it.
You said, you despised the local UAW because your uncle and his buddies and the thousand of good hard working UAW workers in Local 662 and Local 663 destroyed Anderson, Indiana. (my favorate word) You should read the book "Inside General Motors" and "Supercapitalism". It's not the unions that caused the problems we are having now. It's your Republican Party that destroyed all of the laws that kept the lying, cheating, greedy, corrupt supercapitalist from stealing all of OUR MONEY AND ALL OF OUR JOBS!
To me there is little difference between despise and hate. Like when I say I despise the Republican Party as it stand now. Mean I hate the Republican Party as it stand now.
The Troll :yes: :yes:
Let me make one thing very clear, I am not saying that Big Business has not done it's part in f'ing up some good things in this country...and I am not saying that the repubs is in way, shape or form a clean party....but there is plenty of cheating, greedy and corrupting going on by the democrat party also....and NAFTA, the biggest culprit in destroying our Auto Industry was signed into Law by the democrats...you have folks like Barney Frank who has the most blood on his hands with the sub-prime mortgage crisis...and folks like Charles Rangel, Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Chris Dodd, Kent Conrad, Chuck Schumer....they have laundy lists a mile long..........so, I understand when you say there is a fine line between despise and hate....I choose to use I despise these folks....also for the fact that democrats want nothing more than Gov take more and more control of our lives...they thing that gov can solve all problems, I think they ARE the problem....and personaly I like our capitalistic, form of free enterprise, and letting Amercian entreprenuers build America, by keeping Uncle Sam out of the picture as much as possible....
Henry, I don't know where you get all of you information. It's got to be Fox News and Rush Limpaw. You should have a picture of your favorites presidents Ronald Reagan, George 42 Bush, the best Republican president, you Republicans ever had, Bill Clinton and the biggest joke you ever had George W. Bush.
Let me say it one more time. NAFTA was signed and sealed in Canada in 1969 By the president of Mexico, the prime minister of Canada and George 42 Bush. It passed in 1970 or so, by a Republican controlled Congress. The Republicans vote 100% and the 50% of the Democrats voted for it and it was signed by, the One Worlder, Rhodes Scholar and the best Republican President Bill Clinton.
Henry, the Democrats did not cause the Housing Bubble Burst. If was caused by Phil Gramm. His wife was working for Enron with a salary of almost $1 million dollars a year and with Kenneth Lay and his buddies wanting to destroy the Glass-Steagall Act. In 1999 Phil Gramm and two other Republicans slipped in a 262-page amendment into the Omnibus appropriations bill titled: Commodity Futures Modernization Act. That dropped all of the restrictions on the bankers and the Stockmarket. Henry, you got to stop reading the editorial page of HB news, Fox and Rush.
You say I go overboard about what you say. The next time you say the Democrats have done something, don't use hearsay. Give me some real facts that I can look up.
There is nothing the Democrats have done to destroy your freedoms. It's all in your mind. If they have, tell what law they have made to destroy your freedom. Not what someone has put into you head, nothing but the facts.
The Troll :seeya2:
Quote
In the U.S., Bush, who had worked to "fast track" the signing prior to the end of his term, ran out of time and had to pass the required ratification and signing into law to incoming president Bill Clinton. Prior to sending it to the House of Representatives, Clinton introduced clauses to protect American workers and allay the concerns of many House members. It also required U.S. partners to adhere to environmental practices and regulations similar to its own. The ability to enforce these clauses, especially with Mexico, and with much consideration and emotional discussion the House of Representatives approved NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by a vote of 234 to 200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. NAFTA passed the Senate 61-38. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; it went into effect on January 1, 1994.
NAFTA was signed into law by Bill Clinton, (DEMOCRAT), as posted above in the quote. Here's the source I am quoting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement)
*I know its Wiki, but all the sources out there agree so I just used it.*
Quote from: Palehorse on April 19, 2010, 05:02:41 PM
NAFTA was signed into law by Bill Clinton, (DEMOCRAT), as posted above in the quote. Here's the source I am quoting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement)
*I know its Wiki, but all the sources out there agree so I just used it.*
Thanks Palehorse, I was just about to post this very link....
Troll, I will support my claims on the housing bubble tomorrow....I have to leave now and go to my boys little league practice.
Well, I did say that Bill Clinton signed the bill, NAFTA.
It a little like the joke. One Sunday morning the preacher got up in front of his flock and said, "I have heard some very bad things, someone called our piano player a sonuvabitch. He looked and looked out over his people, nothing. Just then in the back row Bessie the old church lady raised her hand. The preacher said, "Bessie did you call our piano player a sonuvabitch." No said Bessie. "What I want to know is, who's the idiot that called him a piano player.
What idiot called Bill Clinton a Democrat.
The Troll :dark:
Quote from: The Troll on April 19, 2010, 04:55:48 PM
You say I go overboard about what you say. The next time you say the Democrats have done something, don't use hearsay. Give me some real facts that I can look up.
you need to do the same thing, try backing up your hearsay...
OK Henry, this should be simple. Give me some questions and I'll answer them
Then I get to ask you some questions and you will answer them. This should be real fun. I not the dumbass plumber you think I am. Like an old man, long since passed. A millionare told me. I would rather be under estimated than over estimated. It's has made a lot of money. I took it to heart. Have at it, Henry.
The Troll :no1:
first of all, I dont think you are a dumbass.... :no:
second, I have a lot on my plate today, but I will jump in as time allows....
Have at it.
hank.. :)
Quote from: The Troll on April 19, 2010, 04:55:48 PM
Henry, the Democrats did not cause the Housing Bubble Burst.
The next time you say the Democrats have done something, don't use hearsay. Give me some real facts that I can look up.
There is nothing the Democrats have done to destroy your freedoms. It's all in your mind. If they have, tell what law they have made to destroy your freedom. Not what someone has put into you head, nothing but the facts.
The Troll :seeya2:
We can get to who caused the housing bubble, but the dems sure didn't do anything to stop it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM)
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE)
and especially THIS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related)
and THIS does a great job of explaining wHY we are in the mess we are in today.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64&feature=PlayList&p=F6B22E96F0518555&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64&feature=PlayList&p=F6B22E96F0518555&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34)
Kind of hard to blame Bush now huh? Thanks for finding these links HH I wasn't having much luck but you put it together rather well.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 20, 2010, 04:04:59 PM
We can get to who caused the housing bubble, but the dems sure didn't do anything to stop it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM)
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE)
and especially THIS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 20, 2010, 04:35:58 PM
and THIS does a great job of explaining wHY we are in the mess we are in today.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64&feature=PlayList&p=F6B22E96F0518555&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64&feature=PlayList&p=F6B22E96F0518555&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34)
thanks me, I'm sure it will be somehow disregarded or something is just wrong with it... :razz:
Sure got far afield from the mine disaster in West Virginia.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 20, 2010, 05:10:17 PM
thanks me, I'm sure it will be somehow disregarded or something is just wrong with it... :razz:
Yeah, I'm afraid so.
youtube is not a credible source for anything. Get me the originals of the copied-and-pasted-and-carefully-edited-out-of-context clips and we can talk.
Quote from: LOsborne on April 20, 2010, 07:44:45 PM
Yeah, I'm afraid so. youtube is not a credible source for anything. Get me the originals of the copied-and-pasted-and-carefully-edited-out-of-context clips and we can talk.
How is it when HH and I put up something on Youtube it's always said to be edited and yet when anyone else uses it as an example it's gospel? I'm not saying you do that so much but others do. Oh, and for the record those aren't edited it is what it is.
I don't use youtube as a source of anything but entertainment. I haven't seen anyone else use it as a factual source either -- other than me and the Hawk. C'mon, me, if the clips are factual, and not taken out of context, then they are available in the original. Just show them to me. That's all I'm asking.
But don't devalue you own, and my intelligence by asking me to accept them as a source of fact.
Quote from: LOsborne on April 20, 2010, 07:44:45 PM
Yeah, I'm afraid so. youtube is not a credible source for anything. Get me the originals of the copied-and-pasted-and-carefully-edited-out-of-context clips and we can talk.
but THEN, it would be a libelous, fictitious story... and I would THEN have have a notarized, hand-written statement, with the actual people signing it their very own DNA tested blood?...
hey, take it or leave it.....My point was strictly designed to the Trollmeister....who NEVER leaves any sort of source what-so-ever....
the thing is I gave like three clips and I can get several more...and I saw NONE that disputed it.....maybe I should put the shoe on the other foot and you prove me wrong.........Olias has THAT done to a science... ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 20, 2010, 10:15:36 PM
.....My point was strictly designed to the Trollmeister....who NEVER leaves any sort of source what-so-ever....
Ah. Sorry. I don't read his stuff, so I missed your discussion. But from what I remember, that's true. Carry on. Any source, no matter how poorly credentialed, trumps no source at all.
CEO's at Masseys should be swinging by a rope.
This mine ceiling collapse was a couple of weeks after the West Virginia debacle that left 29 dead.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/jul/07/state-safety-office-cites-dotiki-mine-roof-fall-fa/
As you can see (if you read the link,) the Kentucky Office of Mine Safety and Licensing has cited the mine for safety violations, and referred it to Mine Safety Review Commission for action. The penalty could be a fine equaling the value of up to 10 days of gross daily coal production.
That's cool. After all, two people died. But I haven't heard anything about penalties charged to Massey Energy for the West VA explosion. Has anybody else?
Nope. They probably got their payoffs in just before that oil well exploded. . . :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on July 07, 2010, 08:49:43 PM
Nope. They probably got their payoffs in just before that oil well exploded. . . :mad:
Yes, it is amazing how fast men can die in a mine accident and how fast their story can die on TV News. :yes:
And the hits just keep on comin'.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/jul/09/coal-miner-killed-underground-accident/
Quote from: LOsborne on July 09, 2010, 08:03:37 PM
And the hits just keep on comin'.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/jul/09/coal-miner-killed-underground-accident/
As long as their lights stay on and their family doesn't have to work there, most people plain old don't give a damned unless it is "fashionable" to lambaste the industry, or there are political points to be gained! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: LOsborne on July 09, 2010, 08:03:37 PM
And the hits just keep on comin'.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/jul/09/coal-miner-killed-underground-accident/
Yeah, hits just keep on comin'. I can understand someone being hit and killed by heavy equipment. All it takes is one millisecond to step in front of these heavy machines and WAMO your dead.
In 38 years at Ford we never had anyone killed. But, oh my god did we have some close ones.
One day a woman, I seen this myself, was leaving the assembly line for her break. She was looking in her purse and step in front of a Hi Lo, which was loaded with about 3 tons of steering gears which couldn't have stopped, made a sharp right turn dumping his load brushing the woman and knocking the purse out of her hand. You ought have seen the dirty look she gave the driver for knocking the purse out of her hand and called the Hi Lo driver out of his name.
But something has to be done about the punishment of the safety violations. The fine's they are giving the criminal mine owners is less that they put out paying people off. We need jail time and some felony convictions. Tho I don't like to seen it done, I think there is to many have felony raps put on people, that should not be. But in this case, let's get her done. Charge them with a felony, let them stand before a judge and jury, make them sweat. Eventho if they are not convicted, the spot light they were in and the cost of attorney fees will definitely put a new slant to the way they have been doing business.
Yesterday, Don Blankenship CEO of Massey Energy, said he felt no guilt of shame in the deaths in his company's mine. He said that his engineers knew more about mining than the government inspectors. He also said that all of the government regulations were the cause of the accidents. And there was nothing wrong with the ventilation in the mine, where the men died.
No morals, on conscience and no honor. Just evil greed. This man need to be in prison and financially broken.