What should we do to someone who kills 29 men in a coal mine.

[andersonbrent]

  I thought those were bottles when I first put them up

[me]

I guess they are pillows huh lol.  I thought they were bottles too. 

[Palehorse]

REPOST SO IT DOESN'T GET BURIED

Troll:

Before I go off on your ass let me just get a little clarification from you surrounding your intended definition of "You people. . ."

Are you utilizing such a wide ranging descriptor in general, or are you intentionally using it to include everyone who may have had a friend or relative working within the mining incident?

Moreover, what are your flaming attacks toward anyone within this forum who happens to hold a perspective that differs from your own intended to accomplish? Historically I have found that individuals utilizing such methods have severe self-esteem issues.

There are ways to get your point(s) across that are a lot more constructive and include the utilization of data, educational works, papers, articles, etc. and the inclusion of links and/or citations so that people will have the opportunity to absorb them and better understand your position(s).

Your standard MO of trying to ram bullshit down the throats of participants won't play well here or anywhere else for that matter. Say it and it is so validation is unacceptable to anyone who maintains even a modicum of credibility, and thus far your credibility is zero with a lot of people. (Back your statements with sources and expect to be challenged when those sources are questionable).

You want respect and credibility, then earn it. Otherwise you leave the field strewn with broken relationships and no better off than when you started.

I'll await your response surrounding my request for clarification.

[The Troll]

THERE IS NO WAY, THAT IS POSSIABLE WAY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.  JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE.  THE TROLL

[The Troll]

THERE IS NO WAY, THAT IS POSSIABLE WAY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.  JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE.  THE TROLL

  BUT I GOT ONE QUESTION ANSWERED.

[Palehorse]

THERE IS NO WAY, THAT IS POSSIABLE WAY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.  JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE.  THE TROLL

That's what I thought. . .

[Palehorse]

Lets try keeping things simple. What were your intentions when you used the phrase "You People"?

Multiple Choice: Just use the corresponding answer that best fits your intention

A - I meant everybody, including everybody.

B - I used it as a "general term" only, to include anyone that has disagreed with me.

C.- I am not sure

[Palehorse]

I'm not trying to cross swords with you here Troll. I just want to try to help you get your point across if I can, and understand what your position is.

Matter of fact, I tend to agree with your positions a lot, but not necessarily the terminology or style you use in expressing them. . . I have a strong affinity with those who find them selves with such challenges, because I am one of them. I've just been working on it for awhile. . .

The best way to do that is for me to point out how what you meant gets interpreted as something entirely different, just because of how you wrote it. The written word is a different animal than the spoken one. Body language, tone, inflection are all muted form the dialog and thus a reader is left to interpret what a writer is saying or intends to say, unless the writer makes a concerted effort to emphasize and clarify each and every point.

Sounds hard, but once you work at it, its as easy as sweating pipe.

[The Troll]

I'm not trying to cross swords with you here Troll. I just want to try to help you get your point across if I can, and understand what your position is.

Matter of fact, I tend to agree with your positions a lot, but not necessarily the terminology or style you use in expressing them. . . I have a strong affinity with those who find them selves with such challenges, because I am one of them. I've just been working on it for awhile. . .

The best way to do that is for me to point out how what you meant gets interpreted as something entirely different, just because of how you wrote it. The written word is a different animal than the spoken one. Body language, tone, inflection are all muted form the dialog and thus a reader is left to interpret what a writer is saying or intends to say, unless the writer makes a concerted effort to emphasize and clarify each and every point.

Sounds hard, but once you work at it, its as easy as sweating pipe.

[The Troll]

  Palehorse, you telling me, I got to talk to the people of the forum, like I talk to my wife.  I'll be talking to her and all of a sudden she get mad.  I'll say what did I say that bothered you.  She would say, it's not what you said, it's was the tone, it the way you said it.

  Honest, I didn't think I'd said anything but the truth.  It was the tone, the way I said it, and the "look" on my face.  Especially when I say, "YES HONEY"  I never thought that other people was a touchy as my wife.  She who rules.  ***** whipped Troll.

   But, Paleface it does really burns my ass when someone attacks my union, and the unions are what gave us are way of life.  The damn Republican Party and the Super Predatory Capitalist have almost destroy the unions.  You can see it every day.  Lower and lower pay and worst and worst working conditions.

   I will try to tone it down.  But it will be really hard with all of the crazy rightwing Teabag Party nuts.  I would bet one thing, if they got complete control of this country.  The first ones to lose their freedom would the the very women to support the party so much and the women can't see it.

The Troll

[Palehorse]

  Palehorse, you telling me, I got to talk to the people of the forum, like I talk to my wife.  I'll be talking to her and all of a sudden she get mad.  I'll say what did I say that bothered you.  She would say, it's not what you said, it's was the tone, it the way you said it.

  Honest, I didn't think I'd said anything but the truth.  It was the tone, the way I said it, and the "look" on my face.  Especially when I say, "YES HONEY"  I never thought that other people was a touchy as my wife.  She who rules.  ***** whipped Troll.

   But, Paleface it does really burns my ass when someone attacks my union, and the unions are what gave us are way of life.  The damn Republican Party and the Super Predatory Capitalist have almost destroy the unions.  You can see it every day.  Lower and lower pay and worst and worst working conditions.

   I will try to tone it down.  But it will be really hard with all of the crazy rightwing Teabag Party nuts.  I would bet one thing, if they got complete control of this country.  The first ones to lose their freedom would the the very women to support the party so much and the women can't see it.

The Troll

First and foremost, I'm not telling you that you have to do anything. You are a grown man who has earned the right to do whatever the hell you damned well please, within reason. BUT, in my opinion taking that same approach toward responding to posters here will go a long way toward making your time spent here a little more enjoyable for you and for those who read you as well.  I am offering my help to you because I understand how frustrating it can be, and I sincerely hope I can help you out with it because I used to have the same challenge myself. Still do but I work on it. I can help you work on it too if you want.

I know it burns you when those who oppose unions trash them and spout off. There are certain topics that I find equally as frustrating believe me. The thing you have to recognize is that when we respond to those who trash our perspectives it is VERY important to maintain control. Hard to do for guys like us who are used to just getting in the dirt and getting the job done. (Type A personality). Don't get me wrong, kicking ass and taking names has its place, but not necessarily within the written word.

Here, when guys like us unleash a verbal barrage toward our opposition it can easily be interpreted as a personal attack and often is. (Flaming I believe it is called). And when we give in to the beast within and let fly it more often than not ends up with us being frustrated because it usually ends with the opposition winning the battle no matter how pissed off or emotional we become. See, we lose control of our words and thought processes, which allow us to carefully select the words we use to communicate what it is we are intending to say, and they end up winning; not because they are necessarily right or wrong, but because we lost control.

Start with these steps:

1. Control your emotions. NEVER respond when your blood is up, no matter how pissed off a post may make you. I learned this one the hard way, so use my experience to your advantage.

2. Walk away from the computer when you get that way. Spend at least 30 minutes doing something else, but once you start calming down, start thinking about what they said and how you should reply to them.

3. Your computer has word in it right? The program you write letters with? When you get back to your computer open up a word document and start writing your response down in it. Let it flow because no one else is going to be able to read it yet. Let it out and when you are done, save the document. Then, and only then, go back and re-read what it was that made you so angry. But don't respond yet. If the poster becomes impatient and demands a response, just say you'll be responding at a later time and let it go at that. Say nothing more. (If this happens it means you've already gained a slight advantage because now THEY are in danger of losing control).

4. Now, go back and open that document you saved back up in word. Read through it and try to take a neutral position when you are doing it. Be critical of yourself, as critical as you would have been of an apprentice's work you were inspecting. Take out anything that seems like an attack, or that expresses anger, then try rewording it.

5. Aim for keeping your responses short at first, the shorter the better. And try to avoid broad statements like "You people". Instead try using "People who adopt purple dogs" (Example) Adopt Purple dogs could instead be"Are Anti Union". . . Get it?

Once you are satisfied, then go back to the forum, open up the topic to the post that you intend to reply to, hit the quote button, then go to the word document and right click with the mouse to highlight your response and click on copy, then go to the reply box on the forum and right click on the reply box and hit paste. Done.

TAKE YOUR TIME and make sure you are satisfied with your reply and that it doesn't let them win by showing emotions or engaging in flaming. If the poster can't wait a day for you to respond, then it isn't a true response he/she is looking for is it. DON'T Let them win by hurrying the process.Take all the time you need and make sure you are calm before you reply.

At first it will be challenging to follow this, but if you stick with it after awhile it will become automatic and you'll get a lot better at it too.

[The Troll]

Lets try keeping things simple. What were your intentions when you used the phrase "You People"?

Multiple Choice: Just use the corresponding answer that best fits your intention

A - I meant everybody, including everybody.

B - I used it as a "general term" only, to include anyone that has disagreed with me.

C.- I am not sure

"you people"

  It is for the person I am talking to at that point of time.  For what that person said at that time.
Also it is for the people who believe what that person believes.

  Like someone who doesn't think anyone should have a union.  Just to grab one out of the air.  I know of one person, who thinks that Walmart employees have no need for a union.  Even tho Walmart has an employee turn over of 51% to 53%.  If you got good working conditions, nobody is going to quit.  The reason that person give is, "I've got two friend who work there and they think it great."  Well, I got people who worked there and said, "It's a shit job."  Also when I used to shop there, which was years and years ago.  I seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears.

   The main reason I don't shop Walmart is the way they treat their employees.  It was said, in the book, Super Capitalism, by Robert Reich.  That Walmart could give their employees a $3 raise per hour and the total labor cost to Walmart would be 3% of the total income of Walmart and the average cost of each Walmart employee is $6500 per year.  What a hell of a good place to work.


   Hell, you can't buy anything made in America anyway. That why we don't have jobs.  Just like some person said, Toyota is one of the best made "American cars".  Well, I differ, they don't pay taxes here in America.  The states have given them tax freedom of 10 to 15 years.  Their creative book keeping, they don't pay their far share of taxes to the government.  All of their profit goes to Japan.  All of the engineering comes from Japan.  All of the decisions comes from Japan.  The only American people who work for Toyota are the people work at the highly automated assembly plants.  Toyota is now leaving the country to go to a cheaper labor market.  Pardon the words, the American dumbasses who stand up for Toyota just can't be very smart.

  So if anyone want to take what I say personally. "When I say you people",  They believe what they believe and they must believe what the person that's getting hell from me.

  Does that answer your question.  I'm interested, but I am not an English major.

The Troll.

[Henry Hawk]

Troll,

Do you actually 'read' what I write sometimes? or do you just buzz through it and pick up key words and derive at your own conclusion on what you THINK I said?

I never said I don't think anyone should have unions,...I merely expressed MY opinion, based upon my first hand knowledge of the local UAW.  I know YOU have a different view and I respect that.  You ALWAYS have to assume that I am a Pat Robertson, Bible thumpin, Holy Roller, Union hating, Christian who want's poor people to rot in hell kind of guy.....you don't know crap about me and you start with the "you people" crap about me.....and in some cases you may be right, but in most cases you don't even come close to identifying me with who you claim I am.

You and I will NEVER agree with many issues on here, but I cannot take you serious when you completely mischaractorize my intent and start with your wild attack. 

Like I never said Toyota was the best American made car.....what I said was it is the MOST American made car.  THAT is a fact......But you went off on a tangent and start in with accusations and on and on and on.

and for what it is worth, Palehorse gives excellent advice, you should try it.  I know because he is the one who taught me how to calm down and "try" to write a more reasonable response to things I find outrageous.  I obviously am still struggling, but I have grown leaps and bounds from where I was when I started on here.

I actually get along with "nearly" everyone on here, and as you know, I am one of two or three that are right-winged "assholes" as you put it  ...but I stick around, because I really DO try to understand WHY those on the left think so differently than I do...(because you are so wrong... ).....It is late and I am rambling on and on, and I hoped I made an ounce of sense here.....I will talk at you after some sleep.

Hank 

[The Troll]

  Sorry Hank.  I do read your post, in fact I read them two or three times, trying to believe what you are saying could come from a good Christian man. 

  But believe me when I say I will read what you say the forth time, before I throw the Asshole bomb. 

  Some times, when I read your stuff, and we both live here in Madison county. I sometimes think we're from two different planets.  We sure are wired different.   I'm AC your DC.

The Troll

[Henry Hawk]

  Sorry Hank.  I do read your post, in fact I read them two or three times, trying to believe what you are saying could come from a good Christian man. 

  But believe me when I say I will read what you say the forth time, before I throw the Asshole bomb. 

  Some times, when I read your stuff, and we both live here in Madison county. I sometimes think we're from two different planets.  We sure are wired different.   I'm AC your DC.

The Troll

I disagree with you or you simply don't read well, because there are several posts that you say that I say something that I DID NOT SAY....I think you are simply "jumping the gun" and making your OWN conclusions in "MOST" cases...for instance, I never said I "hate" Unions........I did say, I despise the local UAW, based upon first hand experience....You has also somehow concluded I hate poor people and sick little kids...JUST because I don't particularly like "THIS" healthcare bill....you are correct, we are wired differently to have such vast differences of opinions....but, I think we are NOT apart as you may believe.  Troll, YOU are one of the reasons WHY I started on these forums....I HONESTLY want to "try" to understand How and Why, liberals and Conservatives believe so compassionately as we do...I am trying to understand what makes some of "you guys"  (  ) think the way you do... .

People like Palehorse and others on here have done wonders of expressing themselves to where I actually understand WHY they have their beliefs, not that I have changed my views, but I do have a better understanding on "some" key issues.