What should we do to someone who kills 29 men in a coal mine.

[The Troll]

  Don Blankinship, the CEO of the coal mine where 29 miners were killed.  What should the government do to him.

  Good old Don made $30 Million last year.  He would rather pay the fines, than make it safe for the workers.  "To hell with the violations, run more coal:, he said.  He told each miner that if they voted for a union, he would close down the mine.

   For you moral people, what should they do.  For you people to thinks the union is bad, what do you think and why.

The Troll

[Henry Hawk]

for starters, he is providing benefits that are designed to ensure that no family will have to worry about missing a paycheck, paying a medical bill or sending a child to college...and they are being provided without any obligation by the families to agree to any settlement....and that is the least that he could do, and he IS arising to that.

as far as what the gov should do to him, well, why hasn't the gov already done something?...IF, there was so much wrong, why didn't THEY act responsibly? why just set fines?, why didn't they close him down if it was that unsafe?

He may be the biggest prick in history, I don't know, but there are gov officials who have blood on their hands as much as Blankenship does....

and for the record, I don't think ALL unions are bad, just the UAW in particular, is what I think of as a BAD Union....they got greedy and corrupt, as much as the owners may have.

[followsthewolf]

He and his board adopted a procedure to fight EVERY violation (much like Ford's decision about the exploding Pinto)  because the dilatory tactics cost less than paying the fines immediately and having to fix the problems -- like the faulty ventilation system.

[Henry Hawk]

He and his board adopted a procedure to fight EVERY violation (much like Ford's decision about the exploding Pinto)  because the dilatory tactics cost less than paying the fines immediately and having to fix the problems -- like the faulty ventilation system.

but wrong is wrong and where was OSHA and those who imposed the violations?.....okay, he IS a dick, but the higher ups let him by with violations....I say there are bigger fish to fry other than Blankinship....(not that he is innocent I mind you)

[followsthewolf]

The company is protected by the legal procedures surrounding the violations. Massey Energy knew that; it is why they adopted the strategy.

EVERY corporation plays the "loophole" game. Massey just rolls the dice with people's lives.

What he has offered the families of those 29 miners is a piss in the ocean compared to what they would have had to pay to fix the hundreds of violations they have racked up.  His Board of Directors is orgasmic over his moves and the offers of assistance he made when Harry "No Balls at All" Smith tossed him those softball questions back at the beginning of this heartbreaking drama.

He does not give a damn about lives, he cares about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

He is a murderer.

[Palehorse]

And these are the exact entities the SCOTUS decision empowered with "constitutional rights"!

IIRC the MSHA is the governing body over this industry, and reports I've heard (note - media cyber-babble) indicate that the involved mines safety records and incident levels are at or below industry standard.

The bottom line though is that leadership's delaying tactics and utilization of procedural loop holes resulted in the deaths of 29 human beings. (2 of them cousins of mine). Since I  have an emotional connection to this incident I'll refrain from stating what I believe proper corrective action(s) should be pursued. . . 

[LOsborne]

The company is protected by the legal procedures surrounding the violations. Massey Energy knew that; it is why they adopted the strategy.

EVERY corporation plays the "loophole" game. Massey just rolls the dice with people's lives.

What he has offered the families of those 29 miners is a piss in the ocean compared to what they would have had to pay to fix the hundreds of violations they have racked up. ...

Excellent post, FTW. The mine disaster is just another example of the way this country is run by lobbyists and corporate greed. Henry is right, too. Our government colluded in the practices that brought about this horror. As they did with the exploding Pinto, and as they continue to do with companies that knowingly hire illegal aliens. Somebody is making a pile of cash from all these examples of malfeasance. Like Palehorse, I am restrained from posting my idea of proper retribution for anyone who made a nickel off them.

[followsthewolf]

I have no personal connection with the incident, which is why I have no compunction about saying that he and his management team should be tried as co-conspirators in 29 counts of first-degree felony murder.

[The Troll]

for starters, he is providing benefits that are designed to ensure that no family will have to worry about missing a paycheck, paying a medical bill or sending a child to college...and they are being provided without any obligation by the families to agree to any settlement....and that is the least that he could do, and he IS arising to that.

as far as what the gov should do to him, well, why hasn't the gov already done something?...IF, there was so much wrong, why didn't THEY act responsibly? why just set fines?, why didn't they close him down if it was that unsafe?

He may be the biggest prick in history, I don't know, but there are gov officials who have blood on their hands as much as Blankenship does....

and for the record, I don't think ALL unions are bad, just the UAW in particular, is what I think of as a BAD Union....they got greedy and corrupt, as much as the owners may have.

   Henry, how in hell can a person who has never worked in automobile manufacturing.  Who never worked on a assembly line, who never worked running the big dirty smoky oil and coolent covered machines.  Say that he hated the UAW.

   I'll tell you what Dude,  come with me to the next retiree meeting we have each month at Local 111 UAW and I'll have you introduced to the retirees.  Being a preacher, I'll let you get up in front of the Ford UAW retired workers and you can testify on how you hate the bad UAW and tell the men how greedy and how selfish UAW was getting help for their members and the bad union broke GM and the automobile industry.  I would you see you hung. 

   You talk about how these men were making all of that money and sending their kids to college.
Well, I couldn't find how much Massey Coal Company pays their men per hour.  Because they pay their  miners on the piece rate.  How much coal they run.  I worked piece work job once, it the most unfair way to pay a person.  The company set the rates fairly   It sure is a killer.

  Henry, nonunion miners are paid, 30% to 40% less than a union miner.  One of the most dangerous job in the country.  They make $35,000 to $40,000 a year and you call this great.

  With all of that high pay, I can see college for all of their kids.  New cars,  $150,000 homes and fine vacations and cruises.

  Henry, for a Jesus loving man, you are sure a mean man.

The Troll

[Henry Hawk]

I never once said that coal miners was making too much money, not once....I never said I was against them forming a union either....as far as that goes, I am not defending blankenship, I said he may be a big prick....How am I mean?

Just because I don't like how the UAW handled themselves back in the late 70's and 80's?....they DID get TOO greedy and I will NEVER back down from that statement....I did not work there, but I was related to many who did, and ONE in particular (an uncle) who was part of the UAW board....used to brag about gouging the owners, getting paid for screwing around (fishing trips, vegas, golf outings)....they kept pushing and pushing for higher wages, more time off with pay...having outside contractors come in to fix things, and HAD to have a UAW boy beside them them the whole time, NOT doing anything but getting full pay....it is crap like that that I have NO respect for....then when things went south, they whined and cried how the owners was screwing them.....I know this for a fact....so screw off..... ..it get's my blood boiling just talking about it.....those guys had a great thing going at one time, and they blew it .....now Anderson is a ghost town....

If THIS makes ME mean, then fine, but I think it was the UAW mentality who was mean....

as far as the coalminers, I have nothing but sorrow and grief for those guys.....they do NOT get paid nearly enough to risk their lives....and IF Blankenship did wrong, (and I'm sure he did) WHY didn't those who are supposed to protect these coalminers do their job?.......why did they just allow fines and NOT make the owner do the right thing?.........WHY?

I'll tell you, they was corrupt and was probably bought off.....so maybe we should start with hanging those guys!!

good night,

Hank

[The Troll]

    Henry, I get so sick of you assholes, who keep saying.  "I never worked there, but,  I had a friend,  a relative or someone else,  who did and, they said."  You people just talk bullshit.

    "You people: are  just full of bullshit.  The UAW pulling GM, Ford and Chrysler down and the UAW killing Anderson.    I'll tell you who PULLED ALL OF THE AMERICAN COMPANIES DOWN.  It was the cheap ass American people, who to save 25 cents of some item, would buy a piece of foreign shit.  Just like a little old  Christian white haired lady. in her late 60's, in Noblesville,  who just this year bought her brand new , bright red Toyota, with the Christian fish of the back, God Help Our Troops and God Bless America and American flag signs on the back of the damn foreign piece of shit (will it stop)  Who thinks that Walmart the the only place to shop and complains that she "JUST CAN'T FIND ANYTHING MADE IN AMERICA." To buy 

   This all started under Reagan and Newt's contract for America.  The Republican Party who worships at the feet of large corporations, the Super Predatory Capitalist bankers, Wall Street Stock Brokers and some how has talked you poor assholes, who hardly have two nickles to rub together, to worship at the feet of the Super Rich people and kiss their asses.    

  Henry if you and people who never worked at an auto plant, all you have is second hand half assed information.  Why don't you keep you asshole mouth shut.  Even tho in your lives, bullshit rules. "

The Troll

[followsthewolf]

Henry Hawk posted:

"as far as the coalminers, I have nothing but sorrow and grief for those guys.....they do NOT get paid nearly enough to risk their lives....and IF Blankenship did wrong, (and I'm sure he did) WHY didn't those who are supposed to protect these coalminers do their job?.......why did they just allow fines and NOT make the owner do the right thing?.........WHY? 

I'll tell you, they was corrupt and was probably bought off.....so maybe we should start with hanging those guys"


Henry--

The regulatory agencies pushed as far as they could with the laws they had to work with. It was Massey Energy (and other large coal mining companies) who discovered that they could kill people and save money by throwing massive litigation at the violations. They made a conscious and cold-blooded decision to trade lives for profits, just like the early days of the industrial revolution. The regulatory agencies can only work within the laws provided by state and federal governments.

Massey Energy also threatened lockouts if the miners tried to organize into a union to improve their conditions.

Regulatory agencies are working with no teeth in the laws they are obligated to enforce. Guess who was in control of Congress when these laws were passed?

[Henry Hawk]

    Henry, I get so sick of you assholes, who keep saying.  "I never worked there, but,  I had a friend,  a relative or someone else,  who did and, they said."  You people just talk bullshit.

    "You people: are  just full of bullshit.  The UAW pulling GM, Ford and Chrysler down and the UAW killing Anderson.    I'll tell you who PULLED ALL OF THE AMERICAN COMPANIES DOWN.  It was the cheap ass American people, who to save 25 cents of some item, would buy a piece of foreign shit.  Just like a little old  Christian white haired lady. in her late 60's, in Noblesville,  who just this year bought her brand new , bright red Toyota, with the Christian fish of the back, God Help Our Troops and God Bless America and American flag signs on the back of the damn foreign piece of shit (will it stop)  Who thinks that Walmart the the only place to shop and complains that she "JUST CAN'T FIND ANYTHING MADE IN AMERICA." To buy 

   This all started under Reagan and Newt's contract for America.  The Republican Party who worships at the feet of large corporations, the Super Predatory Capitalist bankers, Wall Street Stock Brokers and some how has talked you poor assholes, who hardly have two nickles to rub together, to worship at the feet of the Super Rich people and kiss their asses.

  Henry if you and people who never worked at an auto plant, all you have is second hand half assed information.  Why don't you keep you asshole mouth shut.  Even tho in your lives, bullshit rules. "

The Troll

TROLL, suck it!!!...

first of all, I'm getting sick of how the little old Christian ladies are ruining this country crap!!...

second, for your "half assed" information....Toyoto has four of the top ten American made cars in this country, the camry is more american than the Ford 150 and the Chevy Silverado....so that old blue hair has probably done more to help America than YOU have

third, you can say what you want, but you will NEVER convince me any differently, because I personaly seen with my own eyes, that the local UAW ruined any chances that I ever had to go to work at Delco or Guide, because of the personal greed that the local union reps had and abused what was possibly a great thing...they shit it all down the toilet...and now those POS are now sitting all happy and snug drawing a nice pension and getting kick ass health care, while Anderson is knocking down those old buildings and planting grass seed, and closing high schools....it is 100% the UAW's fault ..... PERIOD!!.. ....so YOU suck it!!

and forth and foremost....all of this started with NAFTA, which was signed into law by Bill Clinton....

Hank,

[Palehorse]

    Henry, I get so sick of you assholes, who keep saying.  "I never worked there, but,  I had a friend,  a relative or someone else,  who did and, they said."  You people just talk bullshit.

. . .

Troll:

Before I go off on your ass let me just get a little clarification from you surrounding your intended definition of "You people. . ."

Are you utilizing such a wide ranging descriptor in general, or are you intentionally using it to include everyone who may have had a friend or relative working within the mining incident?

Moreover, what are your flaming attacks toward anyone within this forum who happens to hold a perspective that differs from your own intended to accomplish? Historically I have found that individuals utilizing such methods have severe self-esteem issues.

There are ways to get your point(s) across that are a lot more constructive and include the utilization of data, educational works, papers, articles, etc. and the inclusion of links and/or citations so that people will have the opportunity to absorb them and better understand your position(s).

Your standard MO of trying to ram bullshit down the throats of participants won't play well here or anywhere else for that matter. Say it and it is so validation is unacceptable to anyone who maintains even a modicum of credibility, and thus far your credibility is zero with a lot of people. (Back your statements with sources and expect to be challenged when those sources are questionable).

You want respect and credibility, then earn it. Otherwise you leave the field strewn with broken relationships and no better off than when you started.

I'll await your response surrounding my request for clarification.

[pariann]

Oh.....thank you Palehorse for posting that.   Someone needed to say it.