(http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/photos/news_graph.jpg)
Obama once said....that ANYONE making LESS than $200,000 will NOT have ANY increase in taxes.... :confused: :no:
I can create a graphic and put a bunch of numbers into it to make it look like the end result of Obama's health care plan will double everyone's take home pay and it wouldn't be any more or less bullshit than this cute little picture you found.
There is no bullshit here.....it simply states the amount of taxes that New Yorkers WILL HAVE to pay AFTER the proposed Health-care plan takes effect...
...I would LOVE to see your "little" graphic....now THAT would be bullshit. :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 17, 2009, 10:47:52 AM
There is no bullshit here.....it simply states the amount of taxes that New Yorkers WILL HAVE to pay AFTER the proposed Health-care plan takes effect...
...I would LOVE to see your "little" graphic....now THAT would be bullshit. :yes:
Please show me the health plan in which the percentages used for that crap exist.
Can you imagine what it would be if the tax rates go up which you know they will? :eek:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 17, 2009, 11:07:48 AM
Please show me the health plan in which the percentages used for that crap exist.
No, You are so DAMNED sure that Obama is a SAINT.....time will tell the truth....we will just sit back and watch what happens EX.....We will SEE if EVERYBODY making under $200,000 dollars will NOT see a huge increase in their taxes....
IF business' will NOT be forced to lay people off, because of penalties or because they HAVE to now pay for healthcare....
let's wait and see.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 17, 2009, 11:18:04 AM
No, You are so DAMNED sure that Obama is a SAINT.....time will tell the truth....we will just sit back and watch what happens EX.....We will SEE if EVERYBODY making under $200,000 dollars will NOT see a huge increase in their taxes....
IF business' will NOT be forced to lay people off, because of penalties or because they HAVE to now pay for healthcare....
let's wait and see.
This is fairly simple, Henry. You claim this is the truth so you must have access to details about a health care plan that supports these figures. If you don't, you're doing nothing more than propagating Rush Limpballs lies which exposes you as a liar as well...again.
Ya know EX you're supposed to be so smart I'm just wondering something. Since it has been common knowledge what the cost for this health care plan is just exactly where do you think the money is going to come from if not taxes? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the cost per person and then go from there to figure out what it will cost in added taxes to the select few Obama has chosen to tax. Also they have already mentioned the tax penalty on businesses which do not pay for employee health care. It also doesn't take a degree to figure out that all of us are going to get hit hard in the end if this gets passed. This free health care is going to cost us a chunk of change any way you slice it and also there will be no more actual free care provided by Ronald McDonald house, Shriner's, Lion's Clubs, and various other organizations.
Quote from: me on July 17, 2009, 01:55:03 PM
Ya know EX you're supposed to be so smart I'm just wondering something. Since it has been common knowledge what the cost for this health care plan is just exactly where do you think the money is going to come from if not taxes?
That isn't what is being discussed here. What is being discussed is whether or not the graphic Henry provided is an accurate representation of how those costs will be covered. I would submit that it does not; what it represents is a combination of the worst ideas that have been thrown around (many of which have already been abandoned) and puts them all together to paint a worst possible scenario picture which is then gobbled up by the ignorant and feeble minded and presented as fact.
QuoteIt doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the cost per person and then go from there to figure out what it will cost in added taxes to the select few Obama has chosen to tax.
Really? Then you can provide those figures?
QuoteAlso they have already mentioned the tax penalty on businesses which do not pay for employee health care.
They've mentioned a lot of possible revenue sources, some good, some bad; doesn't make the cute little picture any less of an outright lie.
QuoteIt also doesn't take a degree to figure out that all of us are going to get hit hard in the end if this gets passed. This free health care is going to cost us a chunk of change any way you slice it and also there will be no more actual free care provided by Ronald McDonald house, Shriner's, Lion's Clubs, and various other organizations.
Look, you've already shown your ignorance on this subject and been soundly spanked over the whole Canadian health care system conversation. Why not just quit while you're ahead and have fun in a thread that's better suited to your intellect. Might I suggest, "Last One Wins"?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 17, 2009, 12:19:23 PM
This is fairly simple, Henry. You claim this is the truth so you must have access to details about a health care plan that supports these figures. If you don't, you're doing nothing more than propagating Rush Limpballs lies which exposes you as a liar as well...again.
Yes it is very simple.....I claim the truth, based upon (http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18216)...Figures compiled by Gary Milkwick of the Tax Club, a New York City tax and accounting firm. Calculations are based on current tax rates. 2011 numbers from the Tax Foundation.....you prove that it is a lie....what does Rush Limbaugh have to do with it? :confused:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 17, 2009, 03:01:05 PM
Yes it is very simple.....I claim the truth, based upon (http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18216)...Figures compiled by Gary Milkwick of the Tax Club, a New York City tax and accounting firm. Calculations are based on current tax rates. 2011 numbers from the Tax Foundation.....you prove that it is a lie....what does Rush Limbaugh have to do with it? :confused:
All you've provided is a text version of the same baseless numbers provided in your cute little picture. I want you to show me the legislation being proposed that results in the policies that produce those numbers. In accounting, it's called an audit trail and here's how this works...when the auditors come and they want to look at the books and see the numbers and calculations that resulted in a particular figure, we don't say to them, "you prove the figure isn't right;" we show them the numbers and the calculation. You can't provide what I'm asking for because it doesn't exist...your graphic is a lie and you are a liar for spreading it...gullible as all get out for believing such bullshit without an iota of substance but a liar nonetheless.
well, time will tell the truth.....we WILL see what happens, but it is obvious, that taxes will increase and penalties will be enforced to pay for Healthcare.....
I don't think it is gullibility for posting this crap on a forum....it is gullible of YOU to get your panties in a wad and call out other posters as liars.........get a grip pal.... :razz:
the posts I make are opinions based upon my own reasons.....they may be from the heart or they may be done to simply have fun with OTHER GULLIBLE posters (I won't mention any names)...which I have done on many occasions... ;) If you don't like it.....quit replying to my posts.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 17, 2009, 04:13:54 PM
OTHER GULLIBLE posters
Like the ones who say grapes can't grow in England? Or the one who post pictures of a prison in Europe and claim it's a U.S. prison?
:biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 17, 2009, 02:13:28 PM
That isn't what is being discussed here. What is being discussed is whether or not the graphic Henry provided is an accurate representation of how those costs will be covered. I would submit that it does not; what it represents is a combination of the worst ideas that have been thrown around (many of which have already been abandoned) and puts them all together to paint a worst possible scenario picture which is then gobbled up by the ignorant and feeble minded and presented as fact.
Really? Then you can provide those figures?
They've mentioned a lot of possible revenue sources, some good, some bad; doesn't make the cute little picture any less of an outright lie.
Look, you've already shown your ignorance on this subject and been soundly spanked over the whole Canadian health care system conversation. Why not just quit while you're ahead and have fun in a thread that's better suited to your intellect. Might I suggest, "Last One Wins"?
Ok wise guy. Where do you think the money to fund this fantastic health care is going to come from? Just exactly who's ass are they going to pick it out of if not ours?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 17, 2009, 04:13:54 PM
I don't think it is gullibility for posting this crap on a forum....it is gullible of YOU to get your panties in a wad and call out other posters as liars.........get a grip pal.... :razz:
If you don't want to be labeled a liar, you should stop spreading lies...pretty simple really.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 20, 2009, 09:21:49 AM
If you don't want to be labeled a liar, you should stop spreading lies...pretty simple really.
_________________________________________________--
LOL... Watta joke. Anybody who would look to a short-peckered ferret like you for your skewered opinion or advice isn't exactly Mensa material to start with.
If you need an auditors review to enjoy an op/ed cartoon it's probably caused by constipation... or at least that is what the fumes coming from your keyboard suggests.
.
Quote from: Philodox on July 20, 2009, 09:28:07 PM
LOL... Watta joke. Anybody who would look to a short-peckered ferret like you for your skewered opinion or advice isn't exactly Mensa material to start with.
LMAO! The closest you've ever gotten to Mensa is emptying their trash cans you old coot, and I'm sure you screwed that up somehow. So tell us...how bad does it suck to be this close to death and to look back and realize you've accomplished nothing?
Quote from: me on July 17, 2009, 04:54:36 PM
Ok wise guy. Where do you think the money to fund this fantastic health care is going to come from? Just exactly who's ass are they going to pick it out of if not ours?
not mine, i am having sewed shut. i am sick to death of all these bailouts and govt programs that are swirling around. we pay taxes on our pay, and we pay taxes on everything we use or buy, we pay for medical insurance, we pay for car insurance. if, at the end of the month we are short on money, no one bails us out and the bank wont let us operate on a deficit. i just do not understand how we can spend so much more money than we have as a country.
Credit.
Quote from: pariann on July 21, 2009, 09:44:14 AM
Credit.
But who is going to ultimately pay the bill?
Quote from: me on July 21, 2009, 02:57:20 PM
But who is going to ultimately pay the bill?
Not you.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 21, 2009, 03:20:03 PM
Not you.
If you honestly believe that, then you are more naive than I ever imagined.
I would venture that by the time it comes to start paying it back...we will be beyond the years of paying taxes. Most likely we'll be pushing up daisies.
Quote from: pariann on July 21, 2009, 04:50:18 PM
I would venture that by the time it comes to start paying it back...we will be beyond the years of paying taxes. Most likely we'll be pushing up daisies.
We are only just beginning to pay for it in case you hadn't noticed.
I hadn't noticed. I don't make any money, and I barely spend any money.
Quote from: pariann on July 21, 2009, 06:23:38 PM
I hadn't noticed. I don't make any money, and I barely spend any money.
That's the problem. Too many people aren't paying attention to what's going on.
Yeah, it only took you 8 1/2 years to catch on.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on July 21, 2009, 08:21:53 PM
Yeah, it only took you 8 1/2 years to catch on.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: me on July 21, 2009, 08:10:05 PM
That's the problem. Too many people aren't paying attention to what's going on.
It's hard to notice anything when you are stuck at home because you don't have a job to pay for the gas it takes to get out in the world (and to find a job, outside of Anderson). Every moment is spent trying to find something to earn a few dollars just to pay the bills I need to get by every day. I most certainly can't notice anything leaving my pockets that never goes into them...or is shown to have been earned on a slip of paper at the end of every week.
Have you paid a utility bill lately? Do you smoke?
But that has little to do with the bail outs and the possible cost of health care to the taxpayers.
Utilities are a local cost. What do the rates we pay for them have to do with paying on the debt for credit the federal government is running up?
Quote from: me on July 21, 2009, 08:10:05 PM
That's the problem. Too many people aren't paying attention to what's going on.
LMAO! Like you have some deep understanding that most don't? You're seriously delusional.
Quote from: pariann on July 22, 2009, 08:19:40 AM
Utilities are a local cost. What do the rates we pay for them have to do with paying on the debt for credit the federal government is running up?
Nothing; she doesn't have a clue what she's talking about.
Quote from: pariann on July 22, 2009, 08:19:40 AM
But that has little to do with the bail outs and the possible cost of health care to the taxpayers.
Utilities are a local cost. What do the rates we pay for them have to do with paying on the debt for credit the federal government is running up?
Maybe not on the utilities, yet, but the most recent tax on the cigarettes is a direct result of the health care and is a federal tax on top of the state tax.
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 08:48:04 AM
Maybe not on the utilities, yet, but the most recent tax on the cigarettes is a direct result of the health care and is a federal tax on top of the state tax.
It is also...ANOTHER...broken promise by Obama, stating
...."If you're a family that's making $250,000 a year or less you will see no increase in your taxes. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your personal gains tax, not any of your taxes."..
I believe this thread is about what the future health plan will cost the taxpayers in terms of their income before 'in pocket' or 'profit'. If a taxpayer wishes to not contribute to the current health plan that is in place for children of low income and poor families, they can much easier choose NOT to smoke cigarettes, than to not work or own a business that may be taxed.
Quote from: pariann on July 22, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
I believe this thread is about what the future health plan will cost the taxpayers in terms of their income before 'in pocket' or 'profit'. If a taxpayer wishes to not contribute to the current health plan that is in place for children of low income and poor families, they can much easier choose NOT to smoke cigarettes, than to not work or own a business that may be taxed.
I 100% agree with you Pari.......but, the fact IS, he broke yet another promise, that he campaigned on.....this health care IS going to cost ALL Americans....not just the rich, like EX thinks....EVERYBODY...and I believe it is going to hurt America MORE than it is going to help.
and who will make the decisions regarding what person receives medical care. will some people be considered "too old" or "too fat", or will a smoker be denied health care because of a bad habit (one that funds medical care), or a person with disabilities such as downs syndrome, ms, lupus, etc.
could this be the american answer to genocide?
and another thing, abortion....we all will fund that, if my understanding is correct. now i believe that every person has a choice in that arena, but i also believe that if it is your choice, you should pay for it.
and how will drug research be funded? even now, research is very limited, most drug companies are advertising old products, with name changes, they are not new drugs. some appearance changes, but the chemical compounds remain the same. one that comes to mind is ambien. was a disastrous failure the first time around, but advertising made it a popular choice as a sleep aid.
i worry about my grandchildren and children. what legacy am i leaving to them. the time is past when the kids inherit the farm.
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 08:48:04 AM
Maybe not on the utilities, yet, but the most recent tax on the cigarettes is a direct result of the health care and is a federal tax on top of the state tax.
And considering the disproportionate burden on the health care system by smokers is absolutely reasonable.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 22, 2009, 08:58:06 AM
It is also...ANOTHER...broken promise by Obama, stating...."If you're a family that's making $250,000 a year or less you will see no increase in your taxes. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your personal gains tax, not any of your taxes."..
Anyone can choose not to pay the tax on cigarettes.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 22, 2009, 09:05:06 AM
I 100% agree with you Pari.......but, the fact IS, he broke yet another promise, that he campaigned on.....this health care IS going to cost ALL Americans....not just the rich, like EX thinks....EVERYBODY...and I believe it is going to hurt America MORE than it is going to help.
There you go spreading those lies again...or can you show us the specifics of the plan that support your claim?
Quote from: Elaine on July 22, 2009, 09:23:46 AM
and who will make the decisions regarding what person receives medical care. will some people be considered "too old" or "too fat", or will a smoker be denied health care because of a bad habit
I don't know; should we go ahead and move the alcoholics to the top of the liver transplant list? What's that? Oh, I see, we've been making decisions like this all along, now haven't we?
Quoteand how will drug research be funded?
I'll do my part by researching them privately. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 22, 2009, 09:45:48 AM
There you go spreading those lies again...or can you show us the specifics of the plan that support your claim?
No!...You show me WHO is going to pay for this, and how it will NOT effect ALL Americans in some shape, way or form.....and HOW this plan is going to help our economy.....other than hurt it.
I'm not spreading any lies....I'm stating MY belief.....based upon common sense...
you are real good at talking crap....prove how this is going to be a good thing or STFU :yes:
LOL, now you know you should spell and typo check BEFORE you hit that button the first time. As I am typing this, I still see "my part my"....though quoting shows you changed it already. LOL
Quote from: Exterminator on July 22, 2009, 09:48:41 AM
I'll do my part by researching them privately. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 22, 2009, 09:48:41 AM
I don't know; should we go ahead and move the alcoholics to the top of the liver transplant list? What's that? Oh, I see, we've been making decisions like this all along, now haven't we?
I'll do my part by researching them privately. :biggrin:
okay, i agree with the alcoholic thing, we do profile them. but it doesnt make it okay, now does it? because i see these people daily, and i care about them whether or not they made crappy choices, i see them as individuals who will pay a deadly price. and i still think it is genocide, or survival of the most fit.
and please dont research those pharmaceuticals too often, i would hate to see you at my work.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 22, 2009, 09:52:03 AM
I'm not spreading any lies....I'm stating MY belief.....based upon common sense...
Bullshit. I can say that the a health care system will make every American wealthy; can you prove it won't? And you have no common sense.
Quoteyou are real good at talking crap....prove how this is going to be a good thing or STFU :yes:
It'll be a wonderful thing for all of the children who currently can't afford medical attention. You know the ones...they're the kids who you claim to care so much about when they're in the womb but couldn't give a crap about once they've been born.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072102961.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072102961.html)
Imperfect Health Reform Still Beats the Status Quo
By Steven Pearlstein
Wednesday, July 22, 2009
Among the range of options for health-care reform, there's one that is sure to raise your taxes, increase your out-of-pocket medical expenses, swell the federal deficit, leave more Americans without insurance and guarantee that wages will remain stagnant.
That's the option of doing nothing, letting things continue to drift as they have for the past two decades as we continue to search in vain for the perfect plan that would let everyone have everything they want and preserve everything they already have while getting someone else to pay for it.
So the next time you hear someone throwing a hissy fit because health reform might raise taxes on some people, or steer people into managed care, or require small businesses to contribute $2 a day for each employee's coverage, just remember to ask yourself: And that's compared with what?
.....
Steven Pearlstein is an American columnist. He writes a column on business and the economy that is published twice weekly in The Washington Post. In 2008 Pearlstein received the Pulitzer Prize for Commentary for "his insightful columns that explore the nation's complex economic ills with masterful clarity," at The Washington Post.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 22, 2009, 09:44:33 AM
Anyone can choose not to pay the tax on cigarettes.
Ok, so if the smokers quit smoking then what is going to be taxed? They're already saying the tax on tobacco isn't enough and are considering taxing sugared products. If it's so great why is England considering charging for services now too on top of the heavy tax they already pay for their health care? Why are all the countries that have "free" health care saying we're silly for even thinking about it?
Quote from: Bo D on July 22, 2009, 10:30:27 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072102961.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072102961.html)
Good article and here is the part the simpletons have trouble grasping: "The right way to think about health reform is to consider its impact on the whole economy, not just on the government. "
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 10:40:29 AM
Ok, so if the smokers quit smoking then what is going to be taxed?
If they stop smoking, the medical costs associated with that habit also stop, ergo, the overall costs shrink with the associated decline in revenue. It really isn't that difficult a concept.
QuoteThey're already saying the tax on tobacco isn't enough and are considering taxing sugared products.
Really? Show me where it has gone from being discussed to actually being considered. The two aren't the same.
QuoteIf it's so great why is England considering charging for services now too on top of the heavy tax they already pay for their health care? Why are all the countries that have "free" health care saying we're silly for even thinking about it?
Now you're just spouting bullshit...again.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 22, 2009, 10:49:30 AM
Good article and here is the part the simpletons have trouble grasping: "The right way to think about health reform is to consider its impact on the whole economy, not just on the government. "
_______________________________________________________________________
For once you make sense... NOW... throw the NHC plan in the trash... You haven't read it.
.
Quote from: Bo D on July 22, 2009, 10:30:27 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072102961.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072102961.html)
Imperfect Health Reform Still Beats the Status Quo
By Steven Pearlstein
Wednesday, July 22, 2009
Among the range of options for health-care reform, there's one that is sure to raise your taxes, increase your out-of-pocket medical expenses, swell the federal deficit, leave more Americans without insurance and guarantee that wages will remain stagnant.
That's the option of doing nothing, letting things continue to drift as they have for the past two decades as we continue to search in vain for the perfect plan that would let everyone have everything they want and preserve everything they already have while getting someone else to pay for it.
So the next time you hear someone throwing a hissy fit because health reform might raise taxes on some people, or steer people into managed care, or require small businesses to contribute $2 a day for each employee's coverage, just remember to ask yourself: And that's compared with what?
.....
Steven Pearlstein is an American columnist. He writes a column on business and the economy that is published twice weekly in The Washington Post. In 2008 Pearlstein received the Pulitzer Prize for Commentary for "his insightful columns that explore the nation's complex economic ills with masterful clarity," at The Washington Post.
Oh yeah, a commentator would really know huh? Isn't that what you say if one of us puts an opinion piece on here? Pearlstein is an idiot.
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 12:37:19 PM
Pearlstein is an idiot.
I'll be sure and relay your opinion to the Pulitzer committee.
Quote from: Bo D on July 22, 2009, 12:41:41 PM
I'll be sure and relay your opinion to the Pulitzer committee.
You do that and give Carter and Bore my regards too. :rolleyes: I think an accountant would have just a little more insight as to what the impact of this health care thing is going to cost tax payers than someone who writes opinion columns though. Like you and the others have reminded us of so often, an opinion is just that an opinion. Give us fact. :razz:
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 01:09:45 PM
Give us fact. :razz:
You want facts? Here's one - grapes can be grown in England. :rolleyes:
And .. oh, yeah ... tell Henry that those prison photos were from Europe.
You wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you between your close-set eyes.
Quote from: Bo D on July 22, 2009, 01:15:13 PM
You want facts? Here's one - grapes can be grown in England. :rolleyes:
And .. oh, yeah ... tell Henry that those prison photos were from Europe.
You wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you between your close-set eyes.
And that has what to do with this? Quit changing the subject. :razz:
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 01:18:06 PM
And that has what to do with this? Quit changing the subject. :razz:
It has everything to do with the subject. You post your little lies from that garbage pit you call your In-box and then you question the opinion of a Pulitzer Prize winning author and call him an idiot. Look in the mirror.
Quote from: Bo D on July 22, 2009, 01:28:34 PM
It has everything to do with the subject. You post your little lies from that garbage pit you call your In-box and then you question the opinion of a Pulitzer Prize winning author and call him an idiot. Look in the mirror.
She can't even spell Pulitzer.
Quote from: Bo D on July 22, 2009, 01:28:34 PM
It has everything to do with the subject. You post your little lies from that garbage pit you call your In-box and then you question the opinion of a Pulitzer Prize winning author and call him an idiot. Look in the mirror.
No, it's you changing the subject again to deflect off of the fact that I called you on posting an "opinion piece" as fact. I don't care how many awards he's gotten for his style of writing it's still just an opinion piece.
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 02:11:14 PM
No, it's you changing the subject again to deflect off of the fact that I called you on posting an "opinion piece" as fact.
Again, you lie. Please show me ... show us all ... where I posted that as "fact."
Quote from: me on July 22, 2009, 02:11:14 PM
I don't care how many awards he's gotten for his style of writing it's still just an opinion piece.
And this just goes to show how much you know about the Pulitzer Prize. Yes ... it's an opinion piece. An opinion piece by someone I trust far more than some anonymous e-mail spammer.
While we're at it ... show us some of YOUR "facts." You seem to have blithely thrown out statements throughout this thread (and many others) without a shred of fact to backup your ludicrous claims.