AMERICAN IDOL - SEASON 7!

[bevis]

American Idol is just another shovelful of dirt on an era.  for most of our lives, music was supposed to express something deep and meaningful about ourselves.  that's why the songwriters became such important figures and the performers who wrote their own songs are the icons of our generation.  idol is about technical proficiency and smarmy "show busy" performances that comfort the audiences rather than challenge them in any way.  bill murray's lounge singer would have good shot at idol.

[Bo D]

American Idol is just another shovelful of dirt on an era.  for most of our lives, music was supposed to express something deep and meaningful about ourselves.  that's why the songwriters became such important figures and the performers who wrote their own songs are the icons of our generation.  idol is about technical proficiency and smarmy "show busy" performances that comfort the audiences rather than challenge them in any way.  bill murray's lounge singer would have good shot at idol.

[Y]

American Idol is just another shovelful of dirt on an era.  for most of our lives, music was supposed to express something deep and meaningful about ourselves.  that's why the songwriters became such important figures and the performers who wrote their own songs are the icons of our generation.  idol is about technical proficiency and smarmy "show busy" performances that comfort the audiences rather than challenge them in any way.  bill murray's lounge singer would have good shot at idol.

Agreed.  It's about 'entertainment' rather than creative/expressive art and talent, but it's also been that way since businesses/corporations discovered that homogenized 'entertainment' was a far more 'marketable/packageable' than actual art/talent and could easily be created by manipulation of the public 'taste'.

Take hip-hop, rap, new R&B, whatever you want to call it.  It's the lowest common denominator, usually nothing more than grade school jumprope and playground songs and limerickal, set to highly amplified versions of the heartbeat, and 'performed' by the untalented and inept. 

The industry loves it because it's a highly commercial marketable product - it takes little to no effort/investment to produce and the faces and output are highly interchangeable, one falls out of favor with the public or the industry, just insert the next same face with the same output.

In the end the public is merely a 'consumer' and a tool of corporate/Madison Ave. manipulation. 

[dan foster]

American Idol is just another shovelful of dirt on an era.  for most of our lives, music was supposed to express something deep and meaningful about ourselves.  that's why the songwriters became such important figures and the performers who wrote their own songs are the icons of our generation.  idol is about technical proficiency and smarmy "show busy" performances that comfort the audiences rather than challenge them in any way.  bill murray's lounge singer would have good shot at idol.

Agreed.  It's about 'entertainment' rather than creative/expressive art and talent, but it's also been that way since businesses/corporations discovered that homogenized 'entertainment' was a far more 'marketable/packageable' than actual art/talent and could easily be created by manipulation of the public 'taste'.

Take hip-hop, rap, new R&B, whatever you want to call it.  It's the lowest common denominator, usually nothing more than grade school jumprope and playground songs and limerickal, set to highly amplified versions of the heartbeat, and 'performed' by the untalented and inept. 

The industry loves it because it's a highly commercial marketable product - it takes little to no effort/investment to produce and the faces and output are highly interchangeable, one falls out of favor with the public or the industry, just insert the next same face with the same output.

In the end the public is merely a 'consumer' and a tool of corporate/Madison Ave. manipulation. 

The market gets what the market wants.  POP music is labeled popular because it is popular and it doesn't matter that ALL the pop charts have ALL been driven by 13 year old little girls since music started being sold in one form or another. 

Now there is also SMART music.   Not for the masses.  Only a few get it.  It takes intellect, or a "soulful" connection to the music or the poetry of the lyrics (the music still has to be good or the lyrics just won't matter and vice versa, some music is so good, it doesn't matter what they are singing which is why large numbers of people get the lyrics wrong for decades for some very popular songs). 

I am not a big jazz fan, but I do like some of it because it is SMART music.  Most people will never "get" jazz.  It isn't intended to be popular and never can be.  If it IS popular (i.e., chuck mancioni, et al), then it AIN'T jazz, period.

There is SMART music in every genre, but one has to seek it out in most cases as, you got it, if it AIN'T popular, it doesn't get the air time.  I do like some rap music, which many times is more or less reggae style rap, or WORLD music rap.  Try this one; if it's the lyrics in rap you don't like - Vekhi Lagdi - Apache Indian & Hard Kaur.mp3  It is Reggae, World Rap, in my opinion.  I think some SMART rap is: Tupac & Dr Dre - California love.mp3.  And there are tons of "white" rap that comes to mind, including a few songs by the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

I can tell you there is almost zero songs that I like from the "POP" charts.  I really think all that music is for the NASCAR crowd, and the fact that American Addle (and So You Want to be a Dance Star?, and So You Want to Marry a Millionaire?, and, and, and) is even on the air demonstrates that the masses are easily amused and just don't have anything better to do with their brains.

So, don't confuse popularity with taste.  They are usually diametrically opposed.

[Y]

I'm not certain you see what I'm saying. 

My position is that there is creative/expressive art and talent, and then there is 'product' - that the industry markets, packages, and sells.

Through the marketing strategy of 'cool', the industry uses the media - through advertisements, videos, and shows on the order of 'Idol' - to manipulate the public into liking, and then buying, what they're selling - all the while duping the masses into thinking it's their 'taste' rather than the industry's machinations.

[Henry Hawk]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more...nothing less............I certainly don't need Bob Dylan to tell me that times are a changin.....John Lennon was a great song writer...but he did nothing to make my life any better other than giving me some entertainment...

I do not like most pop music or rap........it does not entertain me.......but, it DOES entertain millions of others...and that is okay...

American Idol, is just another form of entertainment......my family and I, enjoyed watching these young kids...some that are truly talented...just needed a break......AI, is one of the few shows that are on, that a family can sit together for an hour or two and not worry about explicit language being used or any violence....just watching some of these kids on AI grow and mature over the course of a few weeks....being groomed and trained.

and I have NOT have had any urges to drink "Coke" or go out and buy a "Ford" because they were big sponsers of AI.....though I agree with Y, it IS absolutly a "marketing" tool...the bottom line is..."MONEY"....and Coke and Ford pay BIG MONEY to show thier product to the "masses".......

[Bo D]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more...nothing less............

Then you have never let yourself be challenged by the genius of Stravinsky, or even Beethoven or Mozart.

[Sandy Eggo]

Then you have never let yourself be challenged by the genius of Stravinsky, or even Beethoven or Mozart.

I totally agree with you. I honestly think there's a true difference between superficial commercial music and music as an art form.

[Bo D]

And I would like to add Yes to that list....especially "Close the the Edge"

[Henry Hawk]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more...nothing less............

Then you have never let yourself be challenged by the genius of Stravinsky, or even Beethoven or Mozart.

why would you say such a thing...................I adore Beethoven and Mozart music...........it IS entertaining............I don't wet myself or have an out of body experience or anything like that..............It IS extremely enjoyable though.

[Bo D]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more...nothing less............

Then you have never let yourself be challenged by the genius of Stravinsky, or even Beethoven or Mozart.

why would you say such a thing...................I adore Beethoven and Mozart music...........it IS entertaining............I don't wet myself or have an out of body experience or anything like that..............It IS extremely enjoyable though.

You wouldn't understand, Henry. It's a musician thing. 

Seriously, though. I think trained, educated musicians approach music in an entirely different way than most folks. We're weird that way. 

[dan foster]

I'm not certain you see what I'm saying. 

My position is that there is creative/expressive art and talent, and then there is 'product' - that the industry markets, packages, and sells.

Through the marketing strategy of 'cool', the industry uses the media - through advertisements, videos, and shows on the order of 'Idol' - to manipulate the public into liking, and then buying, what they're selling - all the while duping the masses into thinking it's their 'taste' rather than the industry's machinations.

Sorry, but I got exactly what you mean.  The marketing and product is for the masses because they can be duped (e.g. religion).  They do manipulate the public and convince them what is popular.  As I said, 13 yr old little girls dictate the POP charts which is the fuel for the marketing approach to the "masses". 

The masses will never get the SMART, artful music.  Hank is a good example.  He sees music as "entertainment" and nothing more.  The perfect sentiments of someone that would never understand the "intelligence" or the "art" in the music (play, poem, book, movie, documentary (vice Am Addled), painting, architecture, or any other form of non-entertainment he would ignore).

I will take a look at something different and evaluate it for its intelligence or art.  So, I don't just reject the POP stuff, off hand.  But, if it has POP appeal, it doesn't hold my interest very long (Coldplay, newer Green Day, et al)

[dan foster]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more

You proved the point, right there.

[Henry Hawk]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more...nothing less............

Then you have never let yourself be challenged by the genius of Stravinsky, or even Beethoven or Mozart.

why would you say such a thing...................I adore Beethoven and Mozart music...........it IS entertaining............I don't wet myself or have an out of body experience or anything like that..............It IS extremely enjoyable though.

You wouldn't understand, Henry. It's a musician thing. 

Seriously, though. I think trained, educated musicians approach music in an entirely different way than most folks. We're weird that way. 

I believe that Bo..........

and I DO appreciate THOSE that have the talent to express it.........my son is a very good musician, or at least one in the making........he was named musician of the year at his high school last week.........he and I have a great time talking music together and listening to music...he likes classical to classic rock n  roll.........he plays in a worship band at his church.........he is helping to write a percussion line for another high schools marching band........I actually DO have a pretty good understanding of music...........I play "feebly" on guitar.........took lessons when I was a teenager.........I never really had the confidence thing worked out..........I can play still a little when it's just me and the kids around...never could muster up enough confidence to play in front of others.........

[me]

I think music is just entertainment....nothing more...nothing less............

Then you have never let yourself be challenged by the genius of Stravinsky, or even Beethoven or Mozart.

why would you say such a thing...................I adore Beethoven and Mozart music...........it IS entertaining............I don't wet myself or have an out of body experience or anything like that..............It IS extremely enjoyable though.

You wouldn't understand, Henry. It's a musician thing. 

Seriously, though. I think trained, educated musicians approach music in an entirely different way than most folks. We're weird that way. 

Why would you say such a thing Bo D?  I know musicians who think that music is nothing more than entertainment.  Although I couldn't express it I understood music before I had any formal training in it.  The thing is different people feel and listen to music differently whether they're trained or not and that don't make their opinion of it wrong just different.  I also feel and listen to different music in different ways.  There is music which is strictly entertaining and music which is art.  Each person feels and hears music differently even each song is listened to differently IMO.  I don't approach music any differently now than I did before I was trained I just know more about why I feel the way about it that I do and listen to it differently. 
Have you ever listened to the difference between a musician who plays by ear and one who is formally trained, even in college, who plays strictly by the notes?  The trained one might have a better understanding of whats going on but as far as knowing more about music and understand it as an art form IMO the one with no training wins hands down.  That might not make sense to you but its the only way I know how to explain why your comment, IMO, is wrong.