Flags or Symbols of Hate and Racial Discrimination?

[Palehorse]

What does this symbol mean to you? Do you find it acceptable, and would you support an individual flying it from a flag pole?

No. Of course not. While there may be some within civilization that would do so, the clear inference in their doing so would be a message of hate and racial discrimination within society today. In fact, a lot of human beings died over what this flag represented; and a lot of them Americans.

But. . .consider this:



Yes, that is indeed the same symbol flying beneath the American flag. In fact, that symbol prior to Nazi Germany and Adolph Hitler was widely thought to bring good fortune. In fact to this day it holds religious meaning within a number of religions. But you do not see those religions using it for the very same reason most of us would not fly a flag bearing that symbol; its historical connection with messages of hate and racial discrimination.

Now; take a look at this one:



This flag too holds historical implications surrounding hate and racial discrimination, and like the Nazi flag, a large number of Americans died to ensure that the separatist views and implications of hatred and discrimination would be put under. . . And yet. . . here we are in 2015 debating whether this flag should be flown from state-houses and public institutions?

I've seen the "heritage" claims, and I agree; those that fly "Old Dixie" are recognizing their heritage of Hate and Racial Discrimination.

I see no difference between the Nazi flag and Old Dixie. . . Same message, same history. . .

[me]

Gee and look who it was designed by.

1. The Confederate battle flag was never the official flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate States of America went through three different flags during the Civil War, but the battle flag wasn't one of them. Instead, the flag that most people associate with the Confederacy was the battle flag of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia.

Designed by the Confederate politician William Porcher Miles, the flag was rejected for use as the Confederacy's official emblem, although it was incorporated into the two later flags as a canton. It only came to be the flag most prominently associated with the Confederacy after the South lost the war.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707

And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.

Although I don't believe for one second it represents racism to everyone that particular meaning seems to be the one that stuck with some people and they are using it to stir the pot at this point. I've seen blacks wear it on their clothing and have it in the rear windows of their vehicles.

[Henry Hawk]

First of all, I 100% agree with Palehorse's analogy....spot on! 

I support the folks in SC for the removal of that flag from all gov buildings and property.

But, I think all of these issues such as the flag and gun control is all being pushed for political reasons.......that bottom line is that this kid is screwed up.  It is an isolated incident by a random punk.  There is no racial issue in South Carolina that should alarm folks that this type of incident is likely to happen again.  Making more laws to control guns will not keep another incident like this from happening again.

I think we live in a country where such incidents CAN and WILL happen, no matter WHAT laws are put in place.

I do think it is time that we as a country recognize that the confederate flag should not be something we should be proud of as a nation.  We had a war and people died over it.

If Bubba and his family want to fly it on there own property, that is their right.  Because we also had people go to war and die over protecting that right to do so.

We don't have to like it.  And I don't.

I heard a legislator on TV say "It's not just a symbol of hate. It's actually a symbol of pride in one's hatred." 

I tend to agree....


I also want to say that ME brings up an great argument about who and where "politically", southern racism rests.  Southern Democrats still have plenty of racial hatred floating around.

[Palehorse]

Gee and look who it was designed by. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707

And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.

Although I don't believe for one second it represents racism to everyone that particular meaning seems to be the one that stuck with some people and they are using it to stir the pot at this point. I've seen blacks wear it on their clothing and have it in the rear windows of their vehicles.

WTF? That flag, "the battle flag" was proudly flown by Robert E. Lee at each of his engagements DURING the war.

Your red herring surrounding it not being the "official" flag of the confederacy was anticipated by this poster, since I saw what you posted (quoted) well before I created this topic. It's bullshit as far as I am concerned.

The only people who do NOT consider that battle flag to be just as much a symbol of hate and racial discrimination as the Nazi Flag, are those who harbor such. They just do not have the balls to say so or to sport their white sheets in public.  But I recognize them by that flag, (in part).

[Palehorse]

. . .

If Bubba and his family want to fly it on there own property, that is their right.  Because we also had people go to war and die over protecting that right to do so.

We don't have to like it.  And I don't.

. . .

I have a personal example of just how that flag is perceived by others.

Several years ago, I used to go on long weekend trips with my cousin and a group of his coworkers to Cave Run Lake in Kentucky. There would be 30+ guys on these trips most times, and everyone that owned a boat brought it. Home base was always a huge houseboat that we pooled our money to rent for our time there, and we'd always tie it up in a deserted cove area off the main lake and out of the way of everyone. (30+ men eating, drinking, and fishing could make for some rather boisterous times, and good ones.)

We had been doing this for a number of years, and on the trip I am referring to here, we had a group of 4 new guys among us. We had all followed the houseboat as it made its way to our usual home base destination, and we were, as usual, a flotilla to see.

Once we had the houseboat securely moored inside of our cove, some of us began fishing for some fresh crappie for lunch and sat some distance away from home base out near the mouth of the cove. And as we were catching our lunch, I looked over to see two of the new guys tying "Old Dixie" onto one the support poles on the upper deck of the boat. "Man, that is nothing but a magnet for trouble", I said to my cousin. He agreed, and once we had the live well filled, we went back to the houseboat to fillet our catch and throw them into the pot for the "resident cook" to fry up in the deep fryer we always brought along on deck.

Once a large number of us were safely aboard, I brought up the subject of the flag to everyone. "Man, we probably should not be flying that thing. It's a magnet for law enforcement." I stated to everyone. My cousin agreed, but the general consensus was that my Yankee ass just didn't understand what it stands for.. . I reiterated my concerns and told them that I didn't want to hear it when law enforcement came rolling up.

Several of them poo-pooed my concerns, and I told my cousin that it was no skin off my back. They were the ones who had things to hide, not me.

We had a great evening that rolled well into the wee hours, and the adult beverages and left handed cigarettes were enjoyed by many there. My cousin and I had secured two over-sized lounging chairs on the upper deck as our sleeping berth and we retired to the upper deck well after midnight. A good time was had by all, but around 0630 I heard the distinct sound of twin outboard engines slowly idling into the cove. In fact it sounded like at least two. So I roused myself to see who it was, and sure enough, Ranger Rick and the KY State Police were navigating straight toward us.

I just put my head back down and heard my cousin ask, "Who is it?"

The law, I said. Two watercraft and one of them has K9. They're going to board us. . . He giggled, and about 30 seconds later the loudspeaker announced that law enforcement had arrived and were boarding our watercraft. They wanted identification, watercraft registrations, and licenses out and ready to present to the officers.

A full search and inspection then took place, and the dog alerted at three different locations within which contraband was discovered within the personal property of 5 different individuals aboard the houseboat. They were arrested for possession. 7 or 8 others were issued citations for violations of the states watercraft codes, and 1 was cited for failing to have a fishing license in addition to his water crafts deficiencies.

My cousin and I had nothing to hide, and my boat was 100% in compliance, as always. We spent all but about 15 minutes of the 1.5 hours law enforcement was there, on the upper deck; where we had an excellent view of the proceedings.

As the officers began preparing to take their prisoners away, one of the more "vocal" of the members not under arrest asked them, "Why the hell did you guys choose to pick on us?"

He replied, " See that flag? That is an open invitation as far as we're concerned. Boats that fly that flag are easy picking for us. They always have skinheads, dopers, and criminal aboard them. If I were you guys, I'd take that down. A new shift comes on this afternoon.

I reached over and cut the tape holding it to the post of the awning.

And after they were out of sight, I took it below, threw it onto the table and said, "Yeah. I'm just a dumb yankee eh?"

That flag NEVER flew aboard ever again. Not even once.

[Purplelady1040]

Personally, I think there is a whole lot more wrong with the world than a 150 year old piece of fabric.
Children are hungry, there is poverty, income inequality and human trafficking.

[Locutus]

...racism. 

[Locutus]

[me]

Gee and look who it was designed by. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707

And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.

[Exterminator]

Repeatedly posting the same links to articles describing how the country was 100 years ago when you were born does not speak to how it is today.  Maybe you should stop living in the past?

[Henry Hawk]

Ya know, I'm already sick of this whole flag thing.  It is for some reason nothing more than a diversion of an incident that had NOTHING TO DO WITH A FLAG.  There were some folks in Indy yesterday who burned a confederate flag.  ENOUGH ALREADY!

[me]

Repeatedly posting the same links to articles describing how the country was 100 years ago when you were born does not speak to how it is today.  Maybe you should stop living in the past?

You're ignoring the part that was intended to point out.

Gee and look who it was designed by.http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707

And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.

[Exterminator]

You're ignoring the part that was intended to point out.

Ancient. History.

[The Troll]

  Can we  put the confederate flag on toilet paper.     On each and every sheet of it.   

[Henry Hawk]

Okay, just to prove my point that liberals are merely demagoguing the Charleston shooting for political points are NOW calling for "Gone with the Wind" to be chastised. 

Really...don't get me wrong, I never liked the movie....it is too long and boring, but it is STILL a classic film that won eight academy awards.....what is next?  The American Flag?