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Economic Systems

Started by Y, May 15, 2015, 04:52:49 PM

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Y

#15
May 19, 2015, 05:04:07 PM
Quote from: The Troll on May 19, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Y, I don't think you will get much discussion on Capitalism or Socialism from the Republicans of this topic.

Hopefully, there will be discussions because economics - like government/society - is an important subject.
©  Whamma-Jamma - all rights reserved

Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.  ;)

"You've probably noticed that opinion pollsters go out of their way to include as many morons as possible in surveys ... I think it's dangerous to inform morons about what their fellow morons are thinking. It only reinforces their opinions. And the one thing worse than a moron with an opinion is lots of them." -- Scott Adams

In other words: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

"Hitler is gone, but if the majority of our fellow citizens are more susceptible to the slogans of fear and race hatred than to those of peaceful accommodation and mutual respect among human beings, our political liberties remain at the mercy of any eloquent and unscrupulous demagogue." -- S. I. Hayakawa

me

#16
May 19, 2015, 11:06:34 PM
The goal of the progressives and libs is to make us all equally poor rather than equally rich like you seem to think.
Trump 2020

Y

#17
May 20, 2015, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: me on May 19, 2015, 11:06:34 PM
The goal of the progressives and libs is to make us all equally poor rather than equally rich like you seem to think.

We cannot be either 'equally poor' or 'equally rich'; we can be equal.

I had a thread around here once where the formula for basic economics was discussed.

The gist was:

1. Resources are finite, and for anyone to become 'richer': gain a greater portion of those limited resources, the rest have to become 'poorer': lose a portion of those limited resources.

2. The greater percentage of those resources that are accumulated by the few, the less resources there are to go around for the masses.

That's why both communism and socialism are superior to capitalism - they're more egalitarian, which is far better for society at large.
©  Whamma-Jamma - all rights reserved

Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.  ;)

"You've probably noticed that opinion pollsters go out of their way to include as many morons as possible in surveys ... I think it's dangerous to inform morons about what their fellow morons are thinking. It only reinforces their opinions. And the one thing worse than a moron with an opinion is lots of them." -- Scott Adams

In other words: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

"Hitler is gone, but if the majority of our fellow citizens are more susceptible to the slogans of fear and race hatred than to those of peaceful accommodation and mutual respect among human beings, our political liberties remain at the mercy of any eloquent and unscrupulous demagogue." -- S. I. Hayakawa

Locutus

#18
May 20, 2015, 06:43:11 PM
^^

I just went looking for that thread and couldn't find it, but I certainly remember it.  Maybe the forum historian Bo D can point us in the right direction.  He can find some things sometimes that I'd long forgotten about.  ;D
One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda.   -- Locutus

"We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically."  -- Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Henry Hawk

#19
May 20, 2015, 07:43:11 PM
Wow!
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

me

#20
May 21, 2015, 02:24:58 AM
Quote from: Y on May 20, 2015, 04:23:20 PM
We cannot be either 'equally poor' or 'equally rich'; we can be equal.

I had a thread around here once where the formula for basic economics was discussed.

The gist was:

1. Resources are finite, and for anyone to become 'richer': gain a greater portion of those limited resources, the rest have to become 'poorer': lose a portion of those limited resources.

2. The greater percentage of those resources that are accumulated by the few, the less resources there are to go around for the masses.

That's why both communism and socialism are superior to capitalism - they're more egalitarian, which is far better for society at large.
That's what I said, we will be equally poor under either socialism or communism. Talk to some people who have lived under either type and they will tell you that's why they came here, to get away from that.
Trump 2020

Anne

#21
May 22, 2015, 11:29:13 AM
All right, Y, give an example of a society without capitalism that works, with everyone or almost everyone equal in standard of living.
"A discontented man will find no easy chair." Ben Franklin

Y

#22
June 01, 2015, 07:01:48 PM
Anne, I gave you one way back in this thread - early x-tian settlements.

Many, if not most primitive societies were communistic.

Many religious societies - including ones in this country - have been communal.

There are numerous socialist economies in Europe which work rather well.

It's not an idea that hasn't worked, or doesn't work. 

Capitalism is NOT the end all, be all, and certainly NOT the most egalitarian/moral of economic systems.
©  Whamma-Jamma - all rights reserved

Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.  ;)

"You've probably noticed that opinion pollsters go out of their way to include as many morons as possible in surveys ... I think it's dangerous to inform morons about what their fellow morons are thinking. It only reinforces their opinions. And the one thing worse than a moron with an opinion is lots of them." -- Scott Adams

In other words: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

"Hitler is gone, but if the majority of our fellow citizens are more susceptible to the slogans of fear and race hatred than to those of peaceful accommodation and mutual respect among human beings, our political liberties remain at the mercy of any eloquent and unscrupulous demagogue." -- S. I. Hayakawa

Y

#23
June 01, 2015, 07:06:31 PM
Now Anne, you give an example a pure capitalist economy that works in an egalitarian manner for everyone and doesn't end up with the economic disparity with which our country is ending up.
©  Whamma-Jamma - all rights reserved

Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.  ;)

"You've probably noticed that opinion pollsters go out of their way to include as many morons as possible in surveys ... I think it's dangerous to inform morons about what their fellow morons are thinking. It only reinforces their opinions. And the one thing worse than a moron with an opinion is lots of them." -- Scott Adams

In other words: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

"Hitler is gone, but if the majority of our fellow citizens are more susceptible to the slogans of fear and race hatred than to those of peaceful accommodation and mutual respect among human beings, our political liberties remain at the mercy of any eloquent and unscrupulous demagogue." -- S. I. Hayakawa

Anne

#24
June 06, 2015, 04:02:31 PM
The examples were all of primitive or early societies that aren't around anymore. Do the socialist economies in Europe you talk about have a single standard of living? I am not sure what you want. Unless you go to the really primitive areas with no contact with the outside world you have some kind of capitalism.
"A discontented man will find no easy chair." Ben Franklin

Exterminator

#25
June 07, 2015, 01:31:31 PM
Quote from: Anne on June 06, 2015, 04:02:31 PM
Do the socialist economies in Europe you talk about have a single standard of living?

No but it's a lot more equal than ours and they all enjoy a higher average standard of living than we here in the U.S. do.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Locutus

#26
June 07, 2015, 02:48:26 PM
Maybe it's time to dust off this short video that Ex posted some time back as an example of the results of unbridled capitalism in this country.  It's worth a few minutes of your time Anne.

https://www.youtube.com/v/QPKKQnijnsM

One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda.   -- Locutus

"We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically."  -- Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Exterminator

#27
June 08, 2015, 08:05:05 AM
Quote from: Locutus on June 07, 2015, 02:48:26 PM
Maybe it's time to dust off this short video that Ex posted some time back as an example of the results of unbridled capitalism in this country.  It's worth a few minutes of your time Anne.

Thanks for resurrecting that; good to watch again.  I would be interested in seeing the difference between how those numbers looked in 2009 and how they look in 2015...I'm sure it's much more profound.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Henry Hawk

#28
June 08, 2015, 08:42:41 AM
But what has the democrats done about it?  It seems to me they have fed the rich by pumping $50 billion a month into the stock market MAKING the rich much richer.  Am I right?
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Exterminator

#29
June 08, 2015, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2015, 08:42:41 AM
But what has the democrats done about it?  It seems to me they have fed the rich by pumping $50 billion a month into the stock market MAKING the rich much richer.  Am I right?

This is not a partisan issue.  :rolleyes:
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.
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