Common Core

[me]

Some people, it would appear, are perfectly happy to make fire using two sticks. . . 

Well now that really compares. 

[Palehorse]

Well now that really compares. 

Analogy. Look it up. They had them in the 30's. . .

[Henry Hawk]

Quoting someone is fine.

And THAT is what I intended to do that last time.....I admit, I didn't prep myself well, but I had no intentions of remotely TRYING to plagiarize anything.

[Palehorse]

I struggled around where to make this post, but settled on putting it here.

Basics. So some here think modern mathematics, reading, etc. are far too challenging for today's children, and that we should just teach the basics. . .

Lets see how that methodology would have worked out for them surrounding Christianity. (They're Christians too so hang with me for a minute).

What do the following entities from history have in common with Christianity? (You won't have to research it. I'll tell you eventually).

• Horus (3100 B.C.)
• Buddha (563 B.C.)
• Mithra (2000 B.C.)
• Krishna (around 400 B.C.)
• Osiris (around 2500 B.C.)

Can you guess what it is? Do you even care?

If you don't want to guess then read on. If you want to do some research then do so before you read any further. (I gave you the time periods which should help you with the research).


Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. He had 12 disciples. He was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus.

Buddha's mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her (i.e. immaculate conception). As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband's kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.

Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and "the Way, the Truth and the Light." His religion also had a Eucharistic-style "Lord's supper."

Krishna, a Hindu God, was born after his mother was impregnated by a God. His birth was attended by angels, wise men, and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Like Jesus, when Krishna was born, a tyrant had ordered the slaughter of all newborns. In addition, he was baptized in a river, performed miracles, raised the dead, healed the deaf and blind, used parables to teach charity and love, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, and it is believe he will someday return to earth to battle the "Prince of Evil."

Osiris was the son of one of the many Egyptian Gods. Like Jesus, Osiris was portrayed as a bearded man, and his myth says that he was killed and the resurrected after three days in hell. Also like Jesus, Osiris performed miracles, had 12 disciples, and taught that people could be born again through baptism in water. In addition, Osiris had many titles, including "Lord of Lords," "King of Kings," and "Good Shepherd."

So. . . had humanity adopted the "stick to the basics" methodology back around 3100BC, you'd all be worshiping Horus instead of Jesus. "What would Horus do?
What would Osiris do?". etc.  . . .

Bottom line being that the idea of continuous improvement is what brought us from the trees and caves of this planet, all the way to where we are present day. Continuous Improvement within all things, has always been a driver within civilization, and always will be. Without it we'd still be microbes.

Combine that with evolutionary theory, and you will see that even within that, not all things survive but only those things that incorporate the best aspects move forward. Microbes, reptiles, amphibians, mammals, Homo Erectus, Homo Sapiens. . . And even within the species the continuous improvement moves forward.

Science has proven that although Neanderthal were assumed to be exterminated by Homo Sapiens, the reality is that they were not exterminated inasmuch as they were absorbed by the new species. Interbreeding served to eradicate the lessor of the two species, and improving the stronger of the two by keeping only those genes that improved the species within the genetic make-up of the offspring.

The same exact theory holds true for education, no matter what the discipline. Improve or be absorbed or driven to extinction.

Religion is a scourge upon the species, and one that serves to thin the herd globally; as it has for centuries.

We need to continuously raise the bar within the education of our children, or watch them be driven to extinction by the rest of the planet.

[Henry Hawk]

We need to continuously raise the bar within the education of our children, or watch them be driven to extinction by the rest of the planet.

As normal PH, you have a great way of making analogies, this is as good as you have ever done.  Though, I am a Christian, and proud to be one, I am not above listening to logical explanations as you did, even though I may somewhat disagree, but that can be for another day.

With that said, I think at least with my thoughts, that keeping our education system at the grassroots is not a step backwards, but is actually major step forward.  I love the idea of letting our teachers, parents, and administration combine their thoughts on how to achieve the best teaching skills to our kids.  As you know the needs of some communities differ from others.  I realize that some communities such as Anderson, can never get the cooperation as lets say a Carmel community. 
It seems to me that we have dummy-ed down some communities to allow some other communities to catch up or have implemented or subsidized ideas, money and resources to accommodate others.
I'm not sure if this is making sense or if I am describing this accurately, but I think developing good teachers, who can use their creativeness to reach kids, and motivate them to the best of their abilities, starts at a local level, NOT at a National level.

???

To me, it is simple and commonsensical.

[Purplelady1040]

Some people, it would appear, are perfectly happy to make fire using two sticks. . . 

It seems so and if we want our kids to achieve and succeed then they are going to have to move in this fast pace world and get it.

[Purplelady1040]

As normal PH, you have a great way of making analogies, this is as good as you have ever done.  Though, I am a Christian, and proud to be one, I am not above listening to logical explanations as you did, even though I may somewhat disagree, but that can be for another day.

With that said, I think at least with my thoughts, that keeping our education system at the grassroots is not a step backwards, but is actually major step forward.  I love the idea of letting our teachers, parents, and administration combine their thoughts on how to achieve the best teaching skills to our kids.  As you know the needs of some communities differ from others.  I realize that some communities such as Anderson, can never get the cooperation as lets say a Carmel community. 
It seems to me that we have dummy-ed down some communities to allow some other communities to catch up or have implemented or subsidized ideas, money and resources to accommodate others.
I'm not sure if this is making sense or if I am describing this accurately, but I think developing good teachers, who can use their creativeness to reach kids, and motivate them to the best of their abilities, starts at a local level, NOT at a National level.

???

To me, it is simple and commonsensical.

If we dummy our kids down than that is what we will have is a bunch of dummies. I believe in raising the bar so our kids can succeed and compete with those kids in other countries.

[Henry Hawk]

If we dummy our kids down than that is what we will have is a bunch of dummies. I believe in raising the bar so our kids can succeed and compete with those kids in other countries.

See, I'm not saying to dummy our kids down. I am saying, we ARE doing that now, by setting National Standards.  I am saying lets let our teachers raise the bar.  Let them push our kids.  Let the standards be set by producing kids that actually can read, write and do math at a level they are ready to go to college when they graduate.  I think we agree, except on how to get to that level.

[me]

If we dummy our kids down than that is what we will have is a bunch of dummies. I believe in raising the bar so our kids can succeed and compete with those kids in other countries.

Then raise the bar by giving the basics in the first grade then starting on the more complicated things in second or third. Remember sight reading and how well that worked, it didn't, a bunch of kids ended up not being able to read because they had no idea how to sound out a word they had never seen. Then there is the disipline problem which also needs looked at. You can't have a good learning environment when kids can beat on each other and teachers without consequences. That, however, is a whole other subject.

[Purplelady1040]

See, I'm not saying to dummy our kids down. I am saying, we ARE doing that now, by setting National Standards.  I am saying lets let our teachers raise the bar.  Let them push our kids.  Let the standards be set by producing kids that actually can read, write and do math at a level they are ready to go to college when they graduate.  I think we agree, except on how to get to that level.

I agree with what you were saying.

[Purplelady1040]

Then raise the bar by giving the basics in the first grade then starting on the more complicated things in second or third. Remember sight reading and how well that worked, it didn't, a bunch of kids ended up not being able to read because they had no idea how to sound out a word they had never seen. Then there is the disipline problem which also needs looked at. You can't have a good learning environment when kids can beat on each other and teachers without consequences. That, however, is a whole other subject.

I am saying that all kids can't learn the basics.  Raise the bar for the teachers to be the best they can be.

[me]

I am saying that all kids can't learn the basics.  Raise the bar for the teachers to be the best they can be.

If they can't learn the basics how are they going to learn something even more complicated right out of the shoot even if the teacher's bar is raised? And what is new about all kids not being able to learn the basics it's always been that way. The first thing they should do is find out how a child learns best, auditory, sight, or touch then split them into groups accordingly and teach them the way they learn best. By that I mean assign them into classrooms according to their learning abilities/type.  Each teacher should be taught how to teach all three types. This test could be given in kindergarten or even pre-school.

[Purplelady1040]

If they can't learn the basics how are they going to learn something even more complicated right out of the shoot even if the teacher's bar is raised? And what is new about all kids not being able to learn the basics it's always been that way. The first thing they should do is find out how a child learns best, auditory, sight, or touch then split them into groups accordingly and teach them the way they learn best. By that I mean assign them into classrooms according to their learning abilities/type.  Each teacher should be taught how to teach all three types. This test could be given in kindergarten or even pre-school.

Because you seem to have a difficulty understanding that you can't pigeonhole all kids and teachers do accommodate to all kids!! Kids who can't learn the basics are often able to accomplish higher learning. How do I know, because I have a son who couldn't grasp the basic in math but can do high Algebra and Geometry!
A teacher has (x) amount of time to teach and cannot take the time to do all this type of testing to see how a child learns best. It would be nice but that is a pipe dream, ask any teacher and they will tell you they don't have time to do that unless a child has a set plan in place.  You really need to step foot into a school and see how kids are learning and quit going they need to learn the basics and we wonder why U.S. is behind all the other countries.

[Locutus]

YES, I REALLY believe in keeping our lives on the most local level, without Big Government intervention.  I think it serves to do what is best for a community.  Let every community do what is best for that community.  Free Enterprise always has a way of making things work.

That is my sincere opinion.

How does that make sense Hank?  You can't let the local yokels in every county in this country set educational standards like that.  Hell!  You can't even trust state boards of education to do that.  Look at what boards of education in Kansas and Texas have done in trying to introduce questions as to the validity of biological evolution in science textbooks. 

If you let states, or even counties, set educational standards based on what the locals want, you're going to have inequity in education in absolutely unimaginable ways.  Children in Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts, and a few other states, would come out of school with a completely different education than children in states such as Kansas, Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi.  Taken to the extreme local level as you suggest, you would even be looking at different possible educational standards for children born in the same state. How does that even remotely make sense?  The answer is that it doesn't.

NO child in this country should receive an inferior education as a mere product of where they were born.  I'm unwilling to accept that, and that's why national standards are necessary. 

[me]

Because you seem to have a difficulty understanding that you can't pigeonhole all kids and teachers do accommodate to all kids!! Kids who can't learn the basics are often able to accomplish higher learning. How do I know, because I have a son who couldn't grasp the basic in math but can do high Algebra and Geometry!
A teacher has (x) amount of time to teach and cannot take the time to do all this type of testing to see how a child learns best. It would be nice but that is a pipe dream, ask any teacher and they will tell you they don't have time to do that unless a child has a set plan in place.  You really need to step foot into a school and see how kids are learning and quit going they need to learn the basics and we wonder why U.S. is behind all the other countries.

You all obviously haven't thought this through very well but instead are all caught up in the flash and glitter of it. Lots of ideas sound good in theory or on paper but don't work out in the real world because in, the long run, they aren't really practical. I think the parents who can send their kids to private schools or home school have the right idea.