The HCRA

[Exterminator]

Oh, btw I looked it up, not hard if you know how to read the info from right clicking on the picture... 

I see you finally figured it out.  Are you disputing the facts behind it?

[me]

If you were a little smarter (or a lot, really), you'd know how to right click on the chart and find the image URL.  Are you suggesting that the U.S. doesn't have the most expensive and inefficient health care system in the world because if you are, you're simply ignorant of the facts and too lazy to go look them up.

Expensive, yes, inefficient, no.  If it's so inefficient why do people who can afford it from those supposed more efficient "better" countries come here for treatment?  Could it be because we have better doctors?  That will become a thing of the past when they can't make enough money to help pay for their schooling and malpractice insurance let alone private office expenses because the approved doctors aren't paid enough by the ACA and people are paying so much for their coverage they can't afford to go to out of system doctors.  Wouldn't it have been much better to open up insurance choices across state lines to allow the competition to lower insurance costs? 
As far as your graph is concerned would you believe a graph showing different results if it was from a conservative publication and had an article written by a blogger who was also a conservative?  Huffington Post?????  Really?????  You are getting desperate aren't you? 

[me]

I see you finally figured it out.  Are you disputing the facts behind it?

I just wanted to see if you'd post it....I ain't near as dumb as you think bucko.   

[Palehorse]

I just wanted to see if you'd post it....I ain't near as dumb as you think bucko.   

Yeah. . . you are. . .

[Palehorse]

and for crying out fucking loud.....YOU honestly think that this government is doing what is BEST for ALL Americans?  They are so fucking political, they are ONLY going to do what is going to keep THEM elected.

By "this government" what do you mean specifically? Are you talking about the United States Of America's government in totality, including every president that has ever held office, or are you talking about the darkie administration? I'm just asking for clarification here, so don't get your panties in a bigger wad.

I seriously, with ALL MY HEAR think it is YOU that needs to get a grip!

I have a firm grasp on reality, unlike some people. If it were any firmer it just might explode.

The thing that gets me is this.

The ACA is 'SUPPOSED" to be about affordable care.  THAT is so much fucking bullshit, it is pathetic. 
This is NOTHING like government involvement with our food & drug industry or our Airline industry.  THEIR GOAL is not to make food, drugs and airfare cheaper.  They are there to make us safer.
Anytime our government is involved, it is not going to be effecient or cheap.  Red tape is increased, along with costs.

So again, you are a okay with insurance companies telling you what treatments you can and cannot have, what medicines you can and cannot take, and what doctors you can and cannot see? You are okay with insurance companies canceling your coverage just because you are sick, or denying you coverage because you got sick before you bought coverage with them?

You really can't be that blind. . . Can you?

. . .
But to say that they are merely a "regulation" device is bullshit....it is without any doubt, and GOVERNMENT RAN service. Hell, the IRS has an expanded role to play in running this program...so, quit saying it is NOT a government ran program...because it most certainly IS.

No. It is not. But you keep on running that you're gonna' get a blister.

[Henry Hawk]

By "this government" what do you mean specifically? Are you talking about the United States Of America's government in totality, including every president that has ever held office, or are you talking about the darkie administration? I'm just asking for clarification here, so don't get your panties in a bigger wad.

I will say that the United States Of America's government in totality (with the liberal mentallity leading the way).  Every time you guys bring up race, it only confirms to me that you are running out of solid ideas.

I have a firm grasp on reality, unlike some people. If it were any firmer it just might explode.

At one time, I truly believed you were the most firmly grasped reality person on this forum.  But, your hatred, pessimism, and overall attitude has changed my view of that.

So again, you are a okay with insurance companies telling you what treatments you can and cannot have, what medicines you can and cannot take, and what doctors you can and cannot see? You are okay with insurance companies canceling your coverage just because you are sick, or denying you coverage because you got sick before you bought coverage with them?

Never said I was "okay" with it.  But, I think there are far better avenues to fix this mess, rather than a GOVERNMENT run bill.
Open up the markets...

Why not allow portability across state lines to permit companies to compete in a free market competition...with other companies in other states.
This would open up more choices and opportunities that would reduce the cost of coverage as these companies compete for customers, they way it should work.

Offer plans to young people that they actually need, instead of forcing them to subsidize their money to buy insurance that they don't need. Allow the healthy to only buy catastrophic coverage. That lowers the price for them.

Start medical savings account with tax free money so it would lower your taxable income and allow you to spend on healthcare as you see necessary.  Make your OWN decision based on your family needs. On many folks they would build up money the older they get then they could supplement along that with their existing insurance coverage.

THIS is where we would once again gain control, by utilizing FREE ENTERPRISE.  Competition among insurance companies would give us ALL the flexibility to make the best choice that is RIGHT for our families and certain health conditions that we may or may not want covered.

WE, the American people would be in control NOT a corrupt government.

You really can't be that blind. . . Can you?

I see clearly, not blinded by the bullshit propaganda being spewed by liberal mentality.  It is all pretty common sense, the way our forefathers designed it to be.

No. It is not. But you keep on running that you're gonna' get a blister.

Yes, Palehorse we are on the cusps of real government intervention into 1/6 of our economy...the HC industry...and all signs so far is, that this bill is a bust.

[Palehorse]

I will say that the United States Of America's government in totality (with the liberal mentallity leading the way).  Every time you guys bring up race, it only confirms to me that you are running out of solid ideas.

You guys are the ones perpetuating it. The rest of your response is an example of this.

At one time, I truly believed you were the most firmly grasped reality person on this forum.  But, your hatred, pessimism, and overall attitude has changed my view of that.

Hatred? Pretty harsh words coming from a conservative xtian don't you think? I intensely dislike those that would harm the least of our nation in favor of the wealthiest amongst us. Those that would hold the least of us hostage to their political ideals; ideals based upon zealotry. 

Moreover, your tone and approach toward anyone who disagrees with anything you believe, say, or do, evokes an in kind response after a period of time. If you desire a respectful dialog with others then it is incumbent upon you to initiate all dialog within just such a manner. (You fail at this numerous times a day just within this forum).

You constantly kick sand in peoples faces, then you should expect the same in kind.

Never said I was "okay" with it.  But, I think there are far better avenues to fix this mess, rather than a GOVERNMENT run bill.
Open up the markets...

Really? Because I haven't seen a single one of them coming from the republican-tard side of the aisle in over 5 years thus far. And since they're in the pockets of the people this legislation was intended to regulate, one would think they'd be more than capable of coming up with an alternative that is workable for all parties; but they won't. Why? Because the insurance industry doesn't want it. Why? Because they've had several decades of running wild and free, charging the hell out of the insured, and beating on their chests while telling doctors what they can and cannot provide for their patients, and mandating the medical care of human beings that they have never even set eyes upon.

Medicine isn't a "one size fits all" science; never was and never will be. But to hear the insurance companies tell it it is.

They're so full of themselves they are charging even higher premiums and blaming it on the ACA. The reality is all that is going to do is fatten up their already obscenely healthy bottom line. And why not? Their propaganda machine, a.k.a. the republican party, is doing an amazing job of scaring the knickers off of the sheep and keeping them distracted.

Why not allow portability across state lines to permit companies to compete in a free market competition...with other companies in other states.
This would open up more choices and opportunities that would reduce the cost of coverage as these companies compete for customers, they way it should work.

What the hell are you talking about? Insurance companies are free to operate within any state of the union, as long as they meet the requirements. The reason they don't? Those pesky little "high incident clusters" their marketing gurus use to limit risk. (The real reason for cancellations and withdrawing from certain markets).

Offer plans to young people that they actually need, instead of forcing them to subsidize their money to buy insurance that they don't need. Allow the healthy to only buy catastrophic coverage. That lowers the price for them.

Welcome to the "for profit free market". That is exactly the cause for this situation, and deregulation made it all possible. Aren't you happy?

Start medical savings account with tax free money so it would lower your taxable income and allow you to spend on healthcare as you see necessary.  Make your OWN decision based on your family needs. On many folks they would build up money the older they get then they could supplement along that with their existing insurance coverage.

What, your employer doesn't offer you a HSA? Really? What the hell are you going to do when they move you to a high deductible plan then? 

The fact is these high deductible plans will end up driving a drastic decline int he general health and welfare of the American population. They will forego going to the doctor over that persistent sore-throat until it feels like a K Bar slicing into them. By then the cancerous tumor will be so large, and will have metastasized, leaving the patient terminal; with only several very costly rounds of chemo and radiation treatments, along with high doses of pain killers, to extend their life a little longer.

That lump in your meat curtains? It'll go away, you will tell yourself. Until your nuts are the size of basket balls. . .

Pain in your side leaving you feeling sick to your stomach? It'll go away. Until your appendix bursts and set up peritonitis; taking a simple arthroscopic procedure to major surgery that requires you to be gutted like a fish so that the doctors can sanitize your intestines after removing whatever is left of that burst appendix. . .

And guess what! YOU get to pay the first 4k of the bills before they will cover anything; and then it will be at 80% until your reach 12k. . .

THIS is where we would once again gain control, by utilizing FREE ENTERPRISE.  Competition among insurance companies would give us ALL the flexibility to make the best choice that is RIGHT for our families and certain health conditions that we may or may not want covered.

Seriously? You want to pick and choose what is covered "a la carte"? (I didn't realize you went to medical school. You must be using that same decision matrix as the insurance companies huh!) You've got kids Hank. You have to be prepared for anything. Do you really want to go there? 

WE, the American people would be in control NOT a corrupt government.
I see clearly, not blinded by the bullshit propaganda being spewed by liberal mentality.  It is all pretty common sense, the way our forefathers designed it to be.
Yes, Palehorse we are on the cusps of real government intervention into 1/6 of our economy...the HC industry...and all signs so far is, that this bill is a bust.

You really need to take off the blinders and take a cold hard look at the reality that is healthcare today Hank. You are one serious illness away from losing everything. We all are. That's all it takes. . . 

[Henry Hawk]

You really need to take off the blinders and take a cold hard look at the reality that is healthcare today Hank. You are one serious illness away from losing everything. We all are. That's all it takes. . . 

I have to start with this one, for whatever reason, you seem to think that people who don't think like you (liberal) doesn't realize we are having a healthcare mess.  I know for a fact I am one illness away from losing it all.  I pay through the nose with medical bills...unfortunatly this ACA will NOT do a damn thing to help me.  It helps those who didn't already have help.

I am going to be stuck with the same shit...and rumors are surfacing, I may end up losing what I got, to go with a more expensive and less coverage plan.

I will address the rest of your retort...AFTER I indulge in a generously given Turkey dinner by a great supporter of the company i work for.

[Palehorse]

. . .
I will address the rest of your retort...AFTER I indulge in a generously given Turkey dinner by a great supporter of the company i work for.

Don't bother.

I won't.

[Bo D]

Offer plans to young people that they actually need, instead of forcing them to subsidize their money to buy insurance that they don't need. Allow the healthy to only buy catastrophic coverage. That lowers the price for them.

You really think that would work? Yes that may lower the price for them, but what about people my age (60+)? The only way to lower health care costs is to cover everyone and spread the load. Otherwise you place a terrible burden on those who could least afford health care but need it the most.

But I forgot ... the Republican plan is to let those people die early. Hence, problem solved!

[Palehorse]

You really think that would work? Yes that may lower the price for them, but what about people my age (60+)? The only way to lower health care costs is to cover everyone and spread the load. Otherwise you place a terrible burden on those who could least afford health care but need it the most.

But I forgot ... the Republican plan is to let those people die early. Hence, problem solved!

He doesn't give a damn about anyone older than he is. We can all die as far as he is concerned. His parent is covered under the all mighty GM plan, so he isn't worried about anyone else. . . Until he reaches the magic kingdom of maturity it is all good. 

[Henry Hawk]

He doesn't give a damn about anyone older than he is. We can all die as far as he is concerned. His parent is covered under the all mighty GM plan, so he isn't worried about anyone else. . . Until he reaches the magic kingdom of maturity it is all good. 

why would you say such foolish nonsense?

[Henry Hawk]

Moreover, your tone and approach toward anyone who disagrees with anything you believe, say, or do, evokes an in kind response after a period of time. If you desire a respectful dialog with others then it is incumbent upon you to initiate all dialog within just such a manner. (You fail at this numerous times a day just within this forum).

My tone and approach is based upon those who approach me first.  You swing..I duck and swing back.  That is the way I was taught.  That isn't the way I always done it on here.  I used to take the high road on here for years, until I got disrepescted by someone who felt calling names was an intelligent form of debate.......then I took off the gloves and they have stayed off since then.

[Exterminator]

Expensive, yes, inefficient, no.

High cost + high mortality does not = efficiency.

[Exterminator]

THEIR GOAL is not to make food, drugs and airfare cheaper.

Really?  Would you care to explain farm subsidies which artificially hold down consumer costs and (unfunded) prescription drug programs?