The HCRA

[Henry Hawk]

That's the part they don't want to recognize and it is a keystone to their foundational argument. I blame it all on the likes of Palin and her Tea Billies. They started calling it "government run healthcare"

When over 100 NEW federal and state agencies and programs are created just to advise, regulate and oversee....lets call it like it is.  Government run healthcare.

[me]

Palin and The Tea party had nothing to do with what I call it in other words.  I called it that when Hillary proposed hers...I just threw the other in because I sensed the "other" talking point coming on.  And I thought you had reading and comprehension skills.....   No wonder you think the HCRA is great, you don't understand it.

Who the hell said anything about Hillary? 

You don't even read the replies but rather, focus on one word or a phrase and go batshit psycho over it. 

You are a danger to yourself, others, and this nation! 

That's the part they don't want to recognize and it is a keystone to their foundational argument. I blame it all on the likes of Palin and her Tea Billies. They started calling it "government run healthcare" and the sheep have been bleating ever since.

The government regulates almost everything in some form or another. From refining of petroleum products, medicines, even your right to operate a motor vehicle on the roads. In fact it USED to regulate healthcare and insurance until the "deregulation" initiative undertaken by Ronnie Ray-gun and his ilk.

And it was immediately following this deregulation, that health insurers began running amok and costs started skyrocketing.

[me]

First of all, we don't have government health care; secondly, the ACA is not modelled after Canada's health care system; third, this is one isolated example and, as such, illustrated nothing; and finally, you fail to mention the hundreds of countries with government run health care that have no such issues.  It's the law; get over it or move to the third world country of your choice instead of continuing to try to turn this into one.

Where's the link Ex?

[Palehorse]

When over 100 NEW federal and state agencies and programs are created just to advise, regulate and oversee....lets call it like it is.  Government run healthcare.

So then you're okay with government run; medicine, transportation, food, etc.? 

Palin and The Tea party had nothing to do with what I call it in other words.  I called it that when Hillary proposed hers...I just threw the other in because I sensed the "other" talking point coming on.  And I thought you had reading and comprehension skills.....   No wonder you think the HCRA is great, you don't understand it.

Bullshit! They have everything to do with what you call it. . .

And excuse me, but when was Hillary the President of the United States?

As for my comprehension and reading skills; I'd match them against yours and win while sleeping! 

[Henry Hawk]

YOU guys are saying it isn't government ran healthcare....I just pointed out it IS.
I think the more government has a controll on what we do, is NOT really a good thing.

Not saying it shouldn't have its role in regulating commerce, because it does.

[me]

So then you're okay with government run; medicine, transportation, food, etc.? 

Bullshit! They have everything to do with what you call it. . .

And excuse me, but when was Hillary the President of the United States?

As for my comprehension and reading skills; I'd match them against yours and win while sleeping! 

Do you not remember the healthcare bill Hillary tried to get passed?  What difference does it make at this point whether she was president or not I didn't like it than and don't like it now.   

[me]

First of all, we don't have government health care; secondly, the ACA is not modelled after Canada's health care system; third, this is one isolated example and, as such, illustrated nothing; and finally, you fail to mention the hundreds of countries with government run health care that have no such issues.  It's the law; get over it or move to the third world country of your choice instead of continuing to try to turn this into one.

Where's the link to the graph Ex???? 

[Palehorse]

YOU guys are saying it isn't government ran healthcare....I just pointed out it IS.
I think the more government has a controll on what we do, is NOT really a good thing.

Not saying it shouldn't have its role in regulating commerce, because it does.

No it is NOT. The ACA is regulation of the insurance industry!

For cripes sake, you guys will believe anything!

Are you really comfortable with an insurance company deeming what treatments you can have, which doctors you can see, and what medicines you can take; without any governmental regulation of them? Do you really think that a for profit company will have your best interests in mind when they decide all of this? 

Get a grip for crying out loud!

[Palehorse]

Do you not remember the healthcare bill Hillary tried to get passed?  What difference does it make at this point whether she was president or not I didn't like it than and don't like it now.

The Clinton health care plan, known officially as the Health Security Act, was a 1993 healthcare reform package proposed by the administration of President Bill Clinton.

It wasn't Hillary's plan. You can't even remember correctly! 

[me]

The Clinton health care plan, known officially as the Health Security Act, was a 1993 healthcare reform package proposed by the administration of President Bill Clinton.

It wasn't Hillary's plan. You can't even remember correctly! 

Oh really????

Clinton Health Plan Outlined
   
Associated Press
Monday, September 17, 2007

DES MOINES -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's sweeping health-care proposal, which she plans to unveil today, would require every American to carry health insurance and offer federal subsidies to help reduce the cost of coverage.

The proposal, Clinton's first major effort to achieve universal health coverage since an ill-fated 1994 plan, carries a price tag of about $110 billion per year. The centerpiece of her "American Health Choices Plan" is an "individual mandate" requiring everyone to have health insurance -- just as most states require drivers to purchase auto insurance.

"It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs," said Neera Tanden, Clinton's top policy adviser. "If you like the plan you have, you keep it. If you're one of tens of millions of Americans without coverage or don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and you'll get tax credits to help pay for it."
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The New York Democrat is expected to introduce her plan in Iowa, whose caucuses are the nation's first primary vote. Details of the plan were provided to the Associated Press in advance of her speech.

With 47 million Americans currently uninsured, the Democratic presidential contenders have been united in advocating universal coverage. They have parted ways on certain specifics, including the individual mandate -- the plan offered by former senator John Edwards (N.C.) includes one, while the proposal outlined by Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) does not.

Republican skeptics say such a mandate would be too invasive and would restrict personal freedom and choice. Liberal Democrats have expressed concern that it would be too financially burdensome for lower-income individuals and families -- a concern shared by Obama, who has said that individuals cannot be forced to purchase insurance until the cost of coverage is substantially reduced.

Clinton's aides said she believes that an individual mandate is the only way to achieve health care for all. A key component of her plan would be a federal tax subsidy to help individuals pay for coverage.

Clinton's plan builds on the existing employer-based system of coverage. People who receive insurance through the workplace could continue to do so; businesses, in turn, would be required to offer insurance to employees, or contribute to a government-run pool that would help pay for those not covered. Clinton would offer a tax subsidy to small businesses to help them afford the cost of providing coverage to their workers.

For individuals and families who are not covered by employers or whose employer-based coverage is inadequate, Clinton would offer expanded versions of two existing government programs: Medicare and the health insurance plan offered to federal employees. Consumers could choose between either program. Aides emphasize that no new federal bureaucracy would be created under the plan.

Aides said Clinton will propose several measures to pay for her plan, including an end to some of the Bush-era tax cuts for people making more than $250,000 per year. Edwards has vowed to completely repeal the tax cuts for high earners to pay for the cost of his plan, estimated at $90 billion to $120 billion per year, while Obama would pay for his plan in part by letting the tax cuts expire in 2010.

Clinton is also expected to emphasize cost-cutting measures to help pay for universal coverage. She has already recommended several such proposals.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/17/AR2007091700118.html

[Palehorse]

Oh really????
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/17/AR2007091700118.html

Really. You are talking about a campaign "plan" that never had an ice cube's chance in hell of materializing, much less coming to a vote in congress. Especially since she was not POTUS. 

Now, when she succeeds President Obama in the next Presidential Election, you can start worrying. . . Oh wait. There is already a Healthcare Reform law in place!

This right here demonstrates your problem; you take plans and automagically assume they are real. You take potential pitfalls as facts and assume they will occur. You take dreams and assume they are real. 

[me]

Really. You are talking about a campaign "plan" that never had an ice cube's chance in hell of materializing, much less coming to a vote in congress. Especially since she was not POTUS. 

Now, when she succeeds President Obama in the next Presidential Election, you can start worrying. . . Oh wait. There is already a Healthcare Reform law in place!

This right here demonstrates your problem; you take plans and automagically assume they are real. You take potential pitfalls as facts and assume they will occur. You take dreams and assume they are real. 

I did not like it then and I do not like it now.  If it had passed then it would have been more than a "plan" that was proposed for a vote and I would have been just as vocal against it as I am this one.  You are nit picking to excuse and defend this HCRA and it ain't gonna wash.  Now if you really want to nit pick Obama had nothing, or very little, to do with this HCRA he just stuck his name on it because he thought it would be a feather in his cap and it's turned into a nightmare.  He doesn't even call it Obamacare anymore.  Pelosi and Reid pushed it through using strong arm tactics and closed door meetings.  To put it simply, the HCRA sucks and is getting more expensive by the minute.

[me]

First of all, we don't have government health care; secondly, the ACA is not modelled modeled  (fixed it for you)after Canada's health care system; third, this is one isolated example and, as such, illustrated nothing; and finally, you fail to mention the hundreds of countries with government run health care that have no such issues.  It's the law; get over it or move to the third world country of your choice instead of continuing to try to turn this into one.

No wonder you didn't post the link....Huffington Post????  A blogger????  Give me a break.....Really, a blogger?????   
Oh, btw I looked it up, not hard if you know how to read the info from right clicking on the picture... 

[Henry Hawk]

No it is NOT. The ACA is regulation of the insurance industry!

For cripes sake, you guys will believe anything!

Are you really comfortable with an insurance company deeming what treatments you can have, which doctors you can see, and what medicines you can take; without any governmental regulation of them? Do you really think that a for profit company will have your best interests in mind when they decide all of this? 

Get a grip for crying out loud!

and for crying out fucking loud.....YOU honestly think that this government is doing what is BEST for ALL Americans?  They are so fucking political, they are ONLY going to do what is going to keep THEM elected.

I seriously, with ALL MY HEAR think it is YOU that needs to get a grip!

The thing that gets me is this.

The ACA is 'SUPPOSED" to be about affordable care.  THAT is so much fucking bullshit, it is pathetic. 
This is NOTHING like government involvement with our food & drug industry or our Airline industry.  THEIR GOAL is not to make food, drugs and airfare cheaper.  They are there to make us safer.
Anytime our government is involved, it is not going to be effecient or cheap.  Red tape is increased, along with costs.

THAT is why this ACA approach to making healthcare more affordable is NOT the best thing.  I will say that they forced the issue to be dealt with, THAT is a good thing.
But to say that they are merely a "regulation" device is bullshit....it is without any doubt, and GOVERNMENT RAN service. Hell, the IRS has an expanded role to play in running this program...so, quit saying it is NOT a government ran program...because it most certainly IS.

[Exterminator]

Where's the link Ex?

If you were a little smarter (or a lot, really), you'd know how to right click on the chart and find the image URL.  Are you suggesting that the U.S. doesn't have the most expensive and inefficient health care system in the world because if you are, you're simply ignorant of the facts and too lazy to go look them up.