Random Comments (RH)

[Purplelady1040]

What is unfortunate is the employers who don't realize that and will hire a book learned, no common sense or practical job knowledge person over a person with common sense and practical job knowledge.  I may have said that poorly but hope you know what I mean PL.

But understand some jobs require a degree over common sense and job knowledge.

[Bo D]

Well whoopdedo for you.  Not everyone wants that type of job. I had that type of job twice and hated every minute of it
I'd rather glaze windows or work on a car engine than be stuck in a stuffy office all day dressed up and miserable.

You go ahead - clean up those porta-potties. I admit it - society needs people like you. 

[me]

But understand some jobs require a degree over common sense and job knowledge.

Certain professions do, sure, but your average factory worker, even management positions, would mostly be better off with someone with common sense and on job experience.  For instance how many times have you heard someone who works in a factory complain about the "college educated" time study people with no knowledge of how a certain job really needs done coming in and messing up the works with their suggestions?  There are just some jobs where experience should be considered over education IMO. 

[me]

You go ahead - clean up those porta-potties. I admit it - society needs people like you. 

No thanks, I'll leave the porta-potties to Troll and stick to other manual type things.   

[The Troll]

No thanks, I'll leave the porta-potties to Troll and stick to other manual type things.   

    Ever check into what the Porta-Potties cost to rent.  The guy that owns these things must make a killing.     Hell, the people who owns these things and maintains these wonderful things when you really need to take a leak or shit.  I'll bet he makes 500% to 600% over what the things cost.     Taking all of that hard earned money of those that use them.      I'll bets the owners of the palaces of pleasure make a shit load of money.   

[The Troll]

Certain professions do, sure, but your average factory worker, even management positions, would mostly be better off with someone with common sense and on job experience.  For instance how many times have you heard someone who works in a factory complain about the "college educated" time study people with no knowledge of how a certain job really needs done coming in and messing up the works with their suggestions?  There are just some jobs where experience should be considered over education IMO.

  You don't need a degree to be a time study person.      First you find a machine to study and if that machine has 7 different tool cutters in it. You set all of the tools to proper size.     You have the operator turn on the machine and you have him run the parts to be cut as fast as he can for 10 minutes.     Then you multiply that number by 6 and that number times 8 and you have the production rate for that machine for a days production.  Yep, golly, tot, tot, taaaa.   

      Pieces ran in 10 min.  100X6=600X8=4800 parts per day.  Why? Because you never have to replace tools.  Never have to adjust tools for wear and nobody need a restroom break or eat at lunch.    Yep, time study for the company is easy.   

[Purplelady1040]

Certain professions do, sure, but your average factory worker, even management positions, would mostly be better off with someone with common sense and on job experience.  For instance how many times have you heard someone who works in a factory complain about the "college educated" time study people with no knowledge of how a certain job really needs done coming in and messing up the works with their suggestions?  There are just some jobs where experience should be considered over education IMO.

I couldn't say but nowadays even fast food workers have to have completed school and are pushing for workers to get a college degree. I had a relative whom started out at McDonald's flipping burgers, they sent him to college to become a manager of McDonald's. He did a great job and stayed with them until he retired.  I have worked for a company until I retired where some without degrees who thought they could do the job but they couldn't. It is almost like a person who has no kids trying to give parental advice to those who do have kids.

[Exterminator]

Remember the naysayers who crowed after no major problems popped up because of Y2K? I don't like to brag about anything, but it was because of all the guys like us that we had no major problems.

Guys with college educations .... 

Yeah, anyone who doesn't believe there was exposure doesn't understand how much work went into remediation of those systems.

[Exterminator]

  You don't need a degree to be a time study person.  First you find a machine to study and if that machine has 7 different tool cutters in it. You set all of the tools to proper size.  You have the operator turn on the machine and you have him run the parts to be cut as fast as he can for 10 minutes.  Then you multiply that number by 6 and that number times 8 and you have the production rate for that machine for a days production.  Yep, golly, tot, tot, taaaa.

Pieces ran in 10 min.  100X6=600X8=4800 parts per day.  Why? Because you never have to replace tools.  Never have to adjust tools for wear and nobody need a restroom break or eat at lunch.  Yep, time study for the company is easy.

If only it were that simple.  Here are a couple of examples of systems I built early in my career at the old Navistar engine plant in Indianapolis...examples of how problem solving learned through education facilitate the production process:

Your example provides a best case scenario for production but assumes that nothing every goes wrong on a line.  It also makes the assumption that the 7 cutting tools on the machine all have the same number of cutting cycles which, I can assure you, is virtually never the case.  In reality, a modern production line in a factory is equipped with numerous PLC's that count the number of cycles each machine performs, information that is fed into a computer system and compared against the expected life of each tool so that the tool can be replaced during the shift change prior to the shift during which the tool would otherwise fail.  Scrapping of defective parts ruined by a failing cutting tool is minimized while tool life and productivity are maximized.  I built the system that monitored the cutting cycles and issued the work orders to retool at the appropriate time.

Now we have 4800 parts...what do we do with them?  While I was at Navistar, they made turbo diesel engines for their own buses as well as for Ford trucks.  The engines sent to Ford all had different configurations based on what a customer buying a truck ordered.  Ford supplied us with a list of the trucks being built and, ideally, we would have a semi full of engines waiting at their factory in Kentucky that was loaded in reverse sequence on the trucks coming down the line so that the first engine coming out of the trailer matched the next truck coming down the line.  Sounds pretty straightforward; right?  Try doing that in a factory using paper build tickets and see how it works out.  What you'll end up with...and I've actually seen this...is a back dock full of mis-configured engines with salaried employees wrenching on them unsuccessfully trying to put together a full semi trailer load before they shut down Ford's assembly line.  I built the system that, based on bar codes, told the line which parts to put on which engines so they came off of our line correctly configured in the sequence they needed to be loaded onto the trucks.

So yes, the people on the line are absolutely necessary but without someone looking at the bigger picture and directing their activities, they would not have jobs.

[Purplelady1040]

If only it were that simple.  Here are a couple of examples of systems I built early in my career at the old Navistar engine plant in Indianapolis...examples of how problem solving learned through education facilitate the production process:

Your example provides a best case scenario for production but assumes that nothing every goes wrong on a line.  It also makes the assumption that the 7 cutting tools on the machine all have the same number of cutting cycles which, I can assure you, is virtually never the case.  In reality, a modern production line in a factory is equipped with numerous PLC's that count the number of cycles each machine performs, information that is fed into a computer system and compared against the expected life of each tool so that the tool can be replaced during the shift change prior to the shift during which the tool would otherwise fail.  Scrapping of defective parts ruined by a failing cutting tool is minimized while tool life and productivity are maximized.  I built the system that monitored the cutting cycles and issued the work orders to retool at the appropriate time.

Now we have 4800 parts...what do we do with them?  While I was at Navistar, they made turbo diesel engines for their own buses as well as for Ford trucks.  The engines sent to Ford all had different configurations based on what a customer buying a truck ordered.  Ford supplied us with a list of the trucks being built and, ideally, we would have a semi full of engines waiting at their factory in Kentucky that was loaded in reverse sequence on the trucks coming down the line so that the first engine coming out of the trailer matched the next truck coming down the line.  Sounds pretty straightforward; right?  Try doing that in a factory using paper build tickets and see how it works out.  What you'll end up with...and I've actually seen this...is a back dock full of mis-configured engines with salaried employees wrenching on them unsuccessfully trying to put together a full semi trailer load before they shut down Ford's assembly line.  I built the system that, based on bar codes, told the line which parts to put on which engines so they came off of our line correctly configured in the sequence they needed to be loaded onto the trucks.

So yes, the people on the line are absolutely necessary but without someone looking at the bigger picture and directing their activities, they would not have jobs.

Sounds complicated to me but anything having to do with math and figures is not my forte!

[Bo D]

Sounds complicated to me but anything having to do with math and figures is not my forte!

The world today could not function without people like EX!

[Purplelady1040]

The world today could not function without people like EX!

Believe me, people who are math and science oriented are very good at what they do! My father was a Math teacher but the Math gene skipped me! Lol, I enjoy my History, Sociology and Government degree!

[Exterminator]

The world today could not function without people like EX!

Back at ya!   

[Henry Hawk]

The world today could not function without people like EX!

It pains me to say this you are right, but the vast majority of us also fit into that description.  You have your gifts that the world needs. Like I stated earlier it takes all kinds.

[Bo D]

It pains me to say this you are right, but the vast majority of us also fit into that description.  You have your gifts that the world needs. Like I stated earlier it takes all kinds.

Yes - it does take all kinds. We do need the window glaziers, the porta-potty cleaners, etc. 

But think about this - you and I could do those jobs with minimal or no training. But take somebody like 'me' and put her into my job (or yours) and see how long she lasts without any education.