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Started by The Troll, March 09, 2011, 05:50:22 PM

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Palehorse

#90
August 14, 2011, 04:04:27 PM
Yeah, they had a similar stage and rigging set up in Alexandria yesterday for their celebration/festival.

We were there instead of the state fair, and we scooted when those nasty clouds came rolling in. . . I recall telling my wife on the way home that the wind was pretty wicked, as it buffeted my truck along the way. . . But I do not suspect it was anything near those levels, and certainly not sustained.
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

The Troll

#91
August 18, 2011, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Palehorse on August 14, 2011, 04:04:27 PM
Yeah, they had a similar stage and rigging set up in Alexandria yesterday for their celebration/festival.

We were there instead of the state fair, and we scooted when those nasty clouds came rolling in. . . I recall telling my wife on the way home that the wind was pretty wicked, as it buffeted my truck along the way. . . But I do not suspect it was anything near those levels, and certainly not sustained.

  What a lawyer feeding frenzy. :shrk: Since they can't sue God,  you know damn well they're sure looking for someone with deep pockets.

Exterminator

#92
August 18, 2011, 10:23:16 AM
People who were injured or had family members who were killed by the staging company's negligence have every right to be compensated.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Palehorse

#93
August 18, 2011, 11:34:22 AM
I guess the conservatives in this country are proud. They've succeeded in wrecking this country's credit rating, and turned the stock markets into nothing more than a global casino franchise!  :mad: :mad: :mad:
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

Henry Hawk

#94
August 18, 2011, 11:52:05 AM
 :spooked:
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

The Troll

#95
August 18, 2011, 02:36:22 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on August 18, 2011, 10:23:16 AM
People who were injured or had family members who were killed by the staging company's negligence have every right to be compensated.

  Who said they didn't?  But anything that is built by man can be over stressed by God.  Not everything has to have a problem in construction.  But then, computers don't weight that much and are out in the weather.  If you stay away from the power supply you can't even be shocked by them.   :o :biggrin:

The Troll

#96
August 18, 2011, 03:46:20 PM

  Reading a article from the Associated Press about the British police, the Bobby.

  There are 144,000 Bobbies, cops.

  Only 7,000 are allowed to carry a gun.

  The number to times a British Bobby fired a gun from April 2009 to March 2011.  6 times, just think just 6 times.

  Hell, the police in Indiana kill more people a year than that.  I would like to know just how many people are killed by the police each year.  :dead: :rifle:

Exterminator

#97
August 18, 2011, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: The Troll on August 18, 2011, 02:36:22 PM
  Who said they didn't?  But anything that is built by man can be over stressed by God.  Not everything has to have a problem in construction.  But then, computers don't weight that much and are out in the weather.  If you stay away from the power supply you can't even be shocked by them.   :o :biggrin:

Well, I don't believe in God but do find it ironic that people are praying to Him when it was his wind that knocked the thing down in the first place!  If there is a god, I'd like to thank Him for the little gust of wind He blessed me with that blew that gir's sundress up yesterday!

On to the stage rigging...I have some experience with how these are built and assembled and the defacto standard for them is that they are rated at 40 MPH sustained winds while under construction, 60 MPH sustained winds with windwalls (side curtains that this stage did not have) and 90 MPH sustained winds with no windwalls.  As I've stated previously, I believe these ratings are conservative and err on the side of caution, meaning that that stage, properly assembled and anchored can probably easily withstand sustained winds in excess of 100 MPH and even higher gusts.  This stage was designed and manufactured by James Thomas Engineering, one of the leading stage rigging suppliers in the world, and employs their top-of-the-line supertruss system; I seriously doubt it is weaker or has less wind resistance than those made by everyone else.  The people that build these things aren't stupid and the stage riggings aren't cheap.  A stage like the one at the fair easily costs well in excess of a half million dollars with the equipment it's protecting worth even more.  They are built with weather in mind and most do not fall down from a 60 - 70 MPH wind gust.

The stage rigging is built more or less like a giant scaffold with pins holding the parts together and guy wires to anchor the entire structure, top to bottom to the ground.  The roof is motorized and can be raised and lowered; in fact, that's how they get the equipment up on the rigging...they attach it to the roof trusses and raise it into place.  Normally, if bad weather is expected, the roof will be lowered to minimize the risk of damage to the structure and to protect the electronic equipment under it.  In a worst case scenario wherein the weather comes on very quickly, the tarp covering the roof is designed to tear away from the structure before the force of the wind acting on it can compromise the structure itself...video of the incident shows the tarp doing this, as it should.

Somewhere out there, there is another video of this collapse that was taken more or less from directly in front of the stage rather than the video from the side that the news has been showing.  In the video from the front, you can clearly see the top portions of the front support columns, those directly attached to the roof frame itself, lift and separate from the rest of the support columns.  When the wind subsides and the roof frame comes back down, it is no longer attached to the support columns, lists to the right and causes the catastrophic failure of the entire structure.  Based on that video, I question whether or not all of the pins were in place because the top sections separate pretty cleanly, all of them at exactly the same level and I can't imagine it happening so cleanly and evenly if the wind has to overcome and shear off those pins.  They would literally have had to shear off at exactly the same time at exactly the same rate.  That notwithstanding, even with none of the pins in place, the guy wires should have provided enough tension on the entire structure that it shouldn't have ever been possible for any part of it to lift up enough so that it could come apart.  The only logical conclusion is that the rigging was either not not set up correctly or was not anchored correctly or both.  Mid-America is squarely responsible for the collapse of this stage.

Having said that, the show should have been postponed, the area evacuated and the roof lowered long before the storm hit; there was plenty of warning that it was coming.  In fact, I had planned to go to Symphony on the Prarie that night but had changed my plans and went Friday just because of the weather forecast so I recognized the potential at least 36 hours ahead of time!  As it was, the 7,000 people at the venue at Conner Prarie were evacuated at 8:15 on Saturday, more than a half hour before the stage collapsed at the fairgrounds and they were downwind!

There's plenty of blame to go around but none of it rests with any invisible man in the sky.  The wind did not cause this problem; it exposed it.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Palehorse

#98
August 18, 2011, 09:07:29 PM
Well stated EX!
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

The Troll

#99
August 18, 2011, 09:32:32 PM
Quote from: Palehorse on August 18, 2011, 09:07:29 PM
Well stated EX!

  I must agree, you are as smart as I thought.  But I must hold a judgement until all of the parts of the frame are examined.  There is to many causes for this accident.  The man of top of the thing who rode it down and died, probably thought it was assembled in a proper way.  What a way to go out and they said he was a dare devil and wasn't afraid of climbing anything.  :salute:

Henry Hawk

#100
August 18, 2011, 10:22:35 PM
Ex, I agree with you too....and I think the State Fair needs to spend the bucks and build a permanent stage.

I also think it did not take a lot of thought to figure out a storm WAS coming....they should have evacuated long before this hit.
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Palehorse

#101
August 19, 2011, 10:22:57 PM
Ever have one of those days when all you want to say to everyone is:

WHAT is your major malfunction NUMBNUTS?!!!
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

The Troll

#102
August 20, 2011, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: Palehorse on August 19, 2011, 10:22:57 PM
Ever have one of those days when all you want to say to everyone is:

WHAT is your major malfunction NUMBNUTS?!!!

  Weeeeell, since this is Saturday and the state and town government offices are closed, the senate and house is on vacation like the president.  After having a nice supper this Numbnuts is not having any malfunctions.  How about you Numbnuts?   :wink: :smile:

Palehorse

#103
August 20, 2011, 07:51:25 PM
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

The Troll

#104
August 21, 2011, 10:49:50 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 18, 2011, 10:22:35 PM
Ex, I agree with you too....and I think the State Fair needs to spend the bucks and build a permanent stage.

I also think it did not take a lot of thought to figure out a storm WAS coming....they should have evacuated long before this hit.

  Hey Henry, you always against trial lawyers.  How about the State of Indiana having an 5 million dollar cap on the liability of the cost of all of the death and injury in the Fair accident.  You guys sure put a stop to those damn accident lawyers didn't you.   :biggrin:  :bliss:  :bliss:
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