Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious

[Lester Sasquatch]

So you encounter one or two people that you weren't happy with and choose to negatively generalize an entire occupation and gender? Brilliant! Really, pat yourself on the back, you've cracked the code.

Seriously? I think your comments are so idiotic and laughable that I'll have to wait until I'm finished LMAO to explain to you that you should buy a clue.

Sandy, you'll have to forgive Troll. He has probably never held a position of authority over someone else, at least not any one he could terminate. The poor guy said his wife left him, that would leave most any man insecure and with a tendency not to trust women. I think women in power are attractive in a way myself. The quickest way to Bigfoot's heart is an intelligent gal that can keep a cool head under pressure and in you can count on when the shit hits the fan. That's why I like to think of Lolly as my best friend.

[Sandy Eggo]

You are much more generous than I am Lolly. 

That's interesting info. The organization that I work for considers 36 and above as FT as well. It has also been my experience that HR never causes someone to lose their job, they pretty much take care of that on their own.

[LOsborne]

That's why I like to think of Lolly as my best friend.

Closer than Lorraine? (blush)  Oh, Lester, there is no one like you, darlin'.

[Lester Sasquatch]

Closer than Lorraine? (blush)  Oh, Lester, there is no one like you, darlin'.

Lorraine and I broke up a while back. She met some guy who said he wrote for a national tow truck magazine and flew the coop. Last I seen of that gal was on back of a moped with its back fender scraping the ground, heading South. She put on a little weight since you seen her, weighed her down at the feed store about 6 months ago to figure out how much wormer she needed. Tipped the scales at 387 in her boots.

[The Troll]

Despite our resident bad-tempered know-it-all's assertions, dismissal does not automatically deny a worker unemployment benefits. To lose benefits, the worker must be fired "for cause." Cause is defined as misconduct, including disregard for the employer's interest, intoxication, the use of illegal drugs, illegal work slowdowns, use of abusive language, absenteeism, and habitual lateness. Even your union cannot get unemployment benefits for you if you are dismissed for misconduct, although many unions have negotiated a "points" system to address habitual absenteeism and tardiness. Nevertheless, "point-out" and you are fired without unemployment benefits, no matter what union you belong to.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Unemployment+Compensation

Whatever the Troll's problem is with Lowe's and Walmart (I am tempted to speculate, but will restrain myself,) I am fairly certain neither retailer employs union workers. Someone close to him must have been dismissed for misconduct, and the Troll cannot bring himself to acknowledge the person did it to himself. He has to find another villain, and he elected the HR department at Lowe's and Walmart.

Here is something to consider though: with the current state of labor law, for the past twenty years it has been impossible to fire someone and deny them unemployment benefits, without the worker knowing it was coming. Step-discipline policies are designed to prevent anyone from breaking policy without knowing they are breaking it. Short of carrying an Uzi to work, or emptying the cash register into your back-pack and being caught on the security camera, a person simply cannot be fired for cause without knowing they had put their job at risk.

So, anybody but me want to hazard a guess about which item on the forbidden list Troll performed? Here's the list again, to make it easier: disregard for the employer's interest, intoxication, the use of illegal drugs, illegal work slowdowns, use of abusive language, absenteeism, and habitual lateness

Also, just to correct a blatant falsehood, full-time in Indiana is anything the employer says it is, up to 40 hours. Labor law says anything over 40 per work week must be paid at time and a half. My company defines full-time as 36 hours per week, and pays overtime after that. I have heard full-time hours as low as 32. The employer also defines how many hours must be worked to earn insurance and paid-time-off benefits. We require 15 hours per week for insurance, and 1800 hours per year for paid vacation.

And if anyone is interested, I am currently hiring in Cairo, IL and Clinton, TN.

  Oh, I'll run out and tell everyone:    I sure wouldn't want to work for you.  Come on, your surly heard about all of the phony firings of people at the small companies in the last 2 years until the state of Indiana caught on about it.  People being set up and out right lies, to fire people and not have to pay unemployment.  I heard this from labor lawyers and the state labor board.  I am surprised you didn't hear about it or even pull it on some of  your employees.

  I hear all of your bullshit, it still boils down to what the company wants to do.  They can be half civil or assholes.  You need to talk to some minimum wage people that have been layed off and couldn't receive unemployment.  You Superior attitude toward hourly people really show up when someone calls you on your employee treatment.

  No, I couldn't fire anyone and neither could supervision not even the plant manager, fire anyone without a meeting with Ford World Headquarters for salary or the UAW for hourly workers.  We didn't have some HR bitch making all of the decisions and get by with it.  It sounds like you women can fire a person and the upper management people doesn't give a damn.  You people are what caused the union movement.  Authoritarian with no conscience or morals in handling the slaves, the uneducated, the untrained and all of the people below you, which is everyone.  I sure would love to buy you for what your are worth and sell you for what you think you're worth.  My God, I would be a multimillionaire.

  But when you are dealing with me, you're dealing with poor white trash with money.   Skilled trades worker and a state licenced plumbing contractor for 45  years.  I know I could do your job.  But you sure as hell couldn't to my job or my work.  You have needed to work for assholes like I did and work for some of the asshole public.  Not sitting in a  guarded office above all of the dirt and mess of life.  Ruling like a true Authoritarian.    Just keep beating you're deadhorse       P.S., It's really hard have to deal with a white trash union skilled tradesman and a business man and you can't fire me.      And he doesn't give a damn what you say or think. 

[Lester Sasquatch]

At Walmart is an employee is caught disseminating union materials I heard they get fired AND banned from all Walmart/Sam's club stores for life.  That's what some unions will do for you, get you fired.

[The Troll]

At Walmart is an employee is caught disseminating union materials I heard they get fired AND banned from all Walmart/Sam's club stores for life.  That's what some unions will do for you, get you fired.

  OK Lester,    If that's what your say.   Isn't it wonderful to pratice freedom in America.   But that how unions start.  One firing after one firing.  Walmart is a great company to work for.    Now be a good little boy and drink a little wine and eat a little bread and go the bed: 

[Sandy Eggo]

Sandy, you'll have to forgive Troll. He has probably never held a position of authority over someone else, at least not any one he could terminate. The poor guy said his wife left him, that would leave most any man insecure and with a tendency not to trust women. I think women in power are attractive in a way myself. The quickest way to Bigfoot's heart is an intelligent gal that can keep a cool head under pressure and in you can count on when the shit hits the fan. That's why I like to think of Lolly as my best friend.

I have, really. It's a bit obvious that his bee-hind is overloading his mouth (or fingertips in this case). The thing about intelligent women is that they know that they are and sure as hell aren't going to apologize for it. That rubs some men the wrong way and that's how they become trolls. The rest are "real" men or male bipedal humanoids who enjoy the witty repartee of such women. These men tend to have the good taste to become best friends with someone like Lolly. 

[Sandy Eggo]

  Oh, I'll run out and tell everyone:    I sure wouldn't want to work for you.  Come on, your surly heard about all of the phony firings of people at the small companies in the last 2 years until the state of Indiana caught on about it.  People being set up and out right lies, to fire people and not have to pay unemployment.  I heard this from labor lawyers and the state labor board.  I am surprised you didn't hear about it or even pull it on some of  your employees.

  I hear all of your bullshit, it still boils down to what the company wants to do.  They can be half civil or assholes.  You need to talk to some minimum wage people that have been layed off and couldn't receive unemployment.  You Superior attitude toward hourly people really show up when someone calls you on your employee treatment.

  No, I couldn't fire anyone and neither could supervision not even the plant manager, fire anyone without a meeting with Ford World Headquarters for salary or the UAW for hourly workers.  We didn't have some HR bitch making all of the decisions and get by with it.  It sounds like you women can fire a person and the upper management people doesn't give a damn.  You people are what caused the union movement.  Authoritarian with no conscience or morals in handling the slaves, the uneducated, the untrained and all of the people below you, which is everyone.  I sure would love to buy you for what your are worth and sell you for what you think you're worth.  My God, I would be a multimillionaire.

  But when you are dealing with me, you're dealing with poor white trash with money.   Skilled trades worker and a state licenced plumbing contractor for 45  years.  I know I could do your job.  But you sure as hell couldn't to my job or my work.  You have needed to work for assholes like I did and work for some of the asshole public.  Not sitting in a  guarded office above all of the dirt and mess of life.  Ruling like a true Authoritarian.    Just keep beating you're deadhorse       P.S., It's really hard have to deal with a white trash union skilled tradesman and a business man and you can't fire me.      And he doesn't give a damn what you say or think. 

No Troll, if you'll get past your blind hatred of something that you obviously don't understand then you'll see that we're basically saying that by law people get fired because of egregious behavior such as Lolly described. I can't speak for Lolly, but where I work, I NEVER make a decision to fire anyone. I do however review and analyze the facts from both sides and ensure that proper procedures have been followed and that any action being taken is regulatorily correct. I'm not talking just employee handbook or union agreements, I'm talking state and federal regulations. I can honestly say that I've never been a party to a meeting where someone was released that he/she did not know that it was going to happen. Why? Because of due diligence on the part of management (in large part due to the advisory services of HR) and the fact that the employee ultimately knows that he/she committed an offense which would result in termination. The story they tell their friends and unemployment later is much different, but at the time that they're given the opportunity to justify themselves or appeal the decision they're strangely mum. Perhaps it's different in Indiana, but where I am, any employee can appeal a wrongful termination and it will be investigated by an outside agency.

As for laying people off? There's a process for that as well. Everything is and must be well documented. The story that you get on the employee-side is tarnished by hurt feelings, fear and anger so it's not the most creditable.

[The Troll]

No Troll, if you'll get past your blind hatred of something that you obviously don't understand then you'll see that we're basically saying that by law people get fired because of egregious behavior such as Lolly described. I can't speak for Lolly, but where I work, I NEVER make a decision to fire anyone. I do however review and analyze the facts from both sides and ensure that proper procedures have been followed and that any action being taken is regulatorily correct. I'm not talking just employee handbook or union agreements, I'm talking state and federal regulations. I can honestly say that I've never been a party to a meeting where someone was released that he/she did not know that it was going to happen. Why? Because of due diligence on the part of management (in large part due to the advisory services of HR) and the fact that the employee ultimately knows that he/she committed an offense which would result in termination. The story they tell their friends and unemployment later is much different, but at the time that they're given the opportunity to justify themselves or appeal the decision they're strangely mum. Perhaps it's different in Indiana, but where I am, any employee can appeal a wrongful termination and it will be investigated by an outside agency.

As for laying people off? There's a process for that as well. Everything is and must be well documented. The story that you get on the employee-side is tarnished by hurt feelings, fear and anger so it's not the most creditable.

  Where do you get blind hatred of Lowes Home Improvement Store.  There is nothing blind about my hatred for Lowes.  They fired 4 men at the same time for the same NO LOSS, NO DAMAGE AND NO TIME LOSS ACCIDENT.  They fired 4 men over nothing.  The charges they cooked up, UNSAFE WORKING PRACTICES AND STEPPING INTO A SAFETY ZONE WITHOUT A CLIMBING HARNESS.

  They were turn in by a young LOSS PREVENTION MAN just out of college, who happened to be in the safety zone without his climbing harness on when the mishap occurred.

  The men had clean records, nothing against them.  They range from 5 to 13 years with Lowes and one of them was the highest paid and the longest time employee at the the store.
 
  They use the company rule book to fire these guys on trumped up charges.  Then she, Lowes HR Senior manager didn't use the rule book to fire them.  #1 there was suppost to be a hearing and investigation.  #2 first time offense, verbal warning.  #3 after verbal warning, time off and threat of termination.  #4  After all of this termination.

  #1 no hearing, no investigation.  #2 no verbal warning, no time off.  The men were just fired.

  After this and all of the other things Lowes pulled on these 4 men, I went into the web and check out Lowes.  They and their Human Resources department suck just like their treatment of their workers.

  Just Goggle in People who hate Lowes, just one of many.  All companies are different, some better than others.  I don't know about you HR department, but a HR department like Lowes has can turn a good company into a asshole company, THAT'S LOWES!

 

 

[LOsborne]

... I NEVER make a decision to fire anyone. I do however review and analyze the facts from both sides and ensure that proper procedures have been followed and that any action being taken is regulatorily correct. I'm not talking just employee handbook or union agreements, I'm talking state and federal regulations.

While I do occasionally pull the trigger on someone (make the decision,) it is always a result of the investigation into questioned behavior. I spend most of the time explaining to pissed off supervisors why they can't fire someone, just because they don't like the person's politics, style, friends and family, choice of sports team, etc. -- something they always call "insubordination."  Aside: for what it's worth, Indiana Labor Law gives only one definition for insubordination -- refusing to perform assigned duties. Being a shithead is not insubordination.

In Indiana, just as in California, every terminated employee can appeal the termination and the denial of unemployment benefits, to an outside agency. If Troll's "friend" did not get an investigation, it is because he did not appeal. However, from his recounting of the tale, it sounds like an OSHA violation. OSHA trumps any company's handbook and policy manual. But the discharged employee can still appeal the termination, and win, if the rule is not uniformly enforced.

So, I'm tired of giving HR lessons to someone incapable of dispassionate response.

[Sandy Eggo]

IMO, there's generally one reason why someone doesn't file an appeal and it's not for lack of knowing they can. Our company councils the former employee and puts their options and information re: how to go about it, in writing. We're assuming they won't just google it for their own benefit.

Ditto, Lolly.

[The Troll]

While I do occasionally pull the trigger on someone (make the decision,) it is always a result of the investigation into questioned behavior. I spend most of the time explaining to pissed off supervisors why they can't fire someone, just because they don't like the person's politics, style, friends and family, choice of sports team, etc. -- something they always call "insubordination."  Aside: for what it's worth, Indiana Labor Law gives only one definition for insubordination -- refusing to perform assigned duties. Being a shithead is not insubordination.

In Indiana, just as in California, every terminated employee can appeal the termination and the denial of unemployment benefits, to an outside agency. If Troll's "friend" did not get an investigation, it is because he did not appeal. However, from his recounting of the tale, it sounds like an OSHA violation. OSHA trumps any company's handbook and policy manual. But the discharged employee can still appeal the termination, and win, if the rule is not uniformly enforced.

So, I'm tired of giving HR lessons to someone incapable of dispassionate response.

  Your problem is you ran into someone, a dumb plumber who really know the smoke and mirrors you HR people use.  What do you mean giving lessons to someone who is incapable of dispassionate response.  The only way you want to play is that you hold all of the good cards.  Well baby cakes you found someone who know what you people are capable of.

  I do admit that Lowe's HR woman manager did what she is suppose to do, she took the bullet for the assholes who pulled this.  With the economy in Anderson Indiana the way it was.   18% unemployment, 1,400 homes in forclosure and  home building flat on it's ass Lowes had lost some business and they wanted to lose some employees.  They chose this opportunity to do it this way.

  But they took it in the end.  It demoralized the employees at the store, management lost their trust.  Lowes had to change all of the top management, manager and the HR girl, they fired the lost prevention man who started all of this.  Some on the building contractors who like the the mill work specialist quit buying at Lowes.  And the man who took the fired mill work specialist job, nobody liked and thought he was a company rat.  Hell, Lowes brought in "counselors" to try to build up company trust.  Guess what it didn't work.

  I don't need lessons and I don't need to talk about Human Resources anymore either.

[Palehorse]

Well, thank god that's over. . . Present company excluded of course, but I have very little "love" for HR folks myself. . .

[The Troll]

Oh Sandy, look. The "fighter for the little guy" has no clue where minimum wage stands, what number of hours legally constitute full-time employment, and is ignorant of the fact that part-timers who are laid off can collect unemployment insurance benefits. Now what was that quote of his I used? Oh yes...

  I have been  thinking about some of the wrong statements about the Troll and misinformation.

  First of all, in the state of Indiana "NO" part time employee can get state unemployment.  That a fact.  It was stated by a long time HR person that they could receive it.  Anything under 40 hours is considered by the state as part time work.  That's why all of all you business will only offer 39 hour work week.  Walmart does it every day to practically all of their workers.

  I seen it over and over with my son.  He would work his shift and cover over people shift who didn't come in to work and soon as he got in 39 hours the business would not let him work the rest of the week.  A lot of times he only got to work 4 days a week because he already had his hours in.

  Second, where in hell do you think I don't like smart women.  I married one, been married to her for 47 years.  She handled all of the money, the books, our books, my plumbing books and her money books, the taxes, the income from the part of the family farm and stocks she inherited.

  I am quit sure I would not be living as good as I am now, if it wasn't for her handling the money.  The only problem I have is, I don't know how much money she has embezzled from me.  As one friend told me, "it isn't embezzlement until she leaves with it.

  What I really HATE is some man hating woman who isn't to bright.  Who with her college degree got in to Human Resources and has the power of life or death over a man job "his life."  Especially in Indiana a "at will" state where the company can fire you for nothing or for any reason and there is nothing you can do about it.

  Another thing I don't like is a high maintainice beautiful woman with nothing between her beautiful ears but air.  An Air Head who don't like to work but loves to shop.