*@$%*^!!! Judge stops federal funding of embryonic stem cell research

[me]

Ya know, if they were using chicken embryos and the PITA people were out in droves trying to stop it, and you know they would be, you'd be jumpin' all over that bandwagon. 

[Exterminator]

Are the pita people the ones making those little flat bread sandwiches?

[Palehorse]

Are the pita people the ones making those little flat bread sandwiches?

[me]

Are the pita people the ones making those little flat bread sandwiches?

Ya, and as a matter of fact they are flat flat bread sandwiches 'cause they won't eat meat so there's nothing but lettuce and maybe tofu in them......


Oops finger fumble....PETA   

[Palehorse]

. . . But, like you mentioned in an earlier post they have had much better luck with harvested stem cells which were not embryonic.  I just don't understand why they wouldn't put more money into researching non embryonic stem cells since they've had better luck with those.

The first sentence in the quotation is subjective, depending upon what one is attempting to do with the ESC's. Making such a blanket statement proves you don't know squat about the subject but are parroting propaganda!

The second sentence only serves to further illustrate your lack of knowledge.

[Exterminator]

All very true, PH, but they'll use the same claim again next week.

[Palehorse]

All very true, PH, but they'll use the same claim again next week.

Yup! Worse, the information has already been provided to them previously elsewhere within this very forum; enough to prove that the opinions they hold are dead wrong. But that doesn't fit their agenda!

[Henry Hawk]

Yup! Worse, the information has already been provided to them previously elsewhere within this very forum; enough to prove that the opinions they hold are dead wrong. But that doesn't fit their agenda!

take a look in the mirror.....THAT is exactly what YOU guys are doing.

[me]

There has also been proof to the contrary posted elsewhere in the forum.  Seems to me that it all boils down to which scientists proof to go with.

[Palehorse]

take a look in the mirror.....THAT is exactly what YOU guys are doing.

Prove the position I am taking is invalid! You cannot even prove the definition of the start of life, outside of some religious belief based conjecture!

There has also been proof to the contrary posted elsewhere in the forum.  Seems to me that it all boils down to which scientists proof to go with.

No, that is called conjecture and theory, both based upon faith based (READ: religion) lies.

[Henry Hawk]

http://www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/treatments.htm

Check the Score: Adult Stem Cells vs. Embryonic Stem Cells
Benefits in Human Patients (from Peer-Reviewed Studies)

Adult stem cells has a complete list.............the embryonic cells has zero.

   
     

Adult Stem Cells[/t]    Embryonic Stem Cells            Cancers: Brain Cancer    Retinoblastoma    Ovarian Cancer    Skin Cancer: Merkel Cell Carcinoma    Testicular Cancer    Tumors abdominal organs Lymphoma    Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma    Hodgkin's Lymphoma    Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia    Acute Myelogenous Leukemia    Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia    Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia    Chronic Myelomonocytic Leukemia    Cancer of the lymph nodes: Angioimmunoblastic Lymphadenopathy    Multiple Myeloma    Myelodysplasia    Breast Cancer    Neuroblastoma    Renal Cell Carcinoma    Various Solid Tumors    Soft Tissue Sarcoma    Ewing's Sarcoma    Waldenstrom's macroglobulinemia    Hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis    POEMS syndrome    Myelofibrosis   Auto-Immune Diseases Diabetes Type I (Juvenile)    Systemic Lupus    Sjogren's Syndrome    Myasthenia    Autoimmune Cytopenia    Scleromyxedema    Scleroderma    Crohn's Disease    Behcet's Disease    Rheumatoid Arthritis    Juvenile Arthritis    Multiple Sclerosis    Polychondritis    Systemic Vasculitis    Alopecia Universalis    Buerger's Disease   Cardiovascular Acute Heart Damage    Chronic Coronary Artery Disease   Ocular Corneal regeneration   Immunodeficiencies Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome    X-linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome    X-linked Hyper immunoglobulin M Syndrome   Neural Degenerative Diseases and Injuries Parkinson's Disease    Spinal Cord Injury    Stroke Damage   Anemias and Other Blood Conditions Sickle Cell Anemia    Sideroblastic Anemia    Aplastic Anemia    Red Cell Aplasia    Amegakaryocytic Thrombocytopenia    Thalassemia    Primary Amyloidosis    Diamond Blackfan Anemia    Fanconi's Anemia    Chronic Epstein-Barr Infection   Wounds and Injuries Limb Gangrene    Surface Wound Healing    Jawbone Replacement    Skull Bone Repair   Other Metabolic Disorders Hurler's Syndrome    Osteogenesis Imperfecta    Krabbe Leukodystrophy    Osteopetrosis    Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy   Liver Disease Chronic Liver Failure    Liver Cirrhosis   Bladder Disease End-Stage Bladder Disease [/t]    NONE

[Exterminator]

LMFAO!  Henry, the site you are citing starts with the conclusion they want to present and then backs into it...not an unbiased approach to real research.

You might want to learn about GVHD if you think adult stem cells don't kill people.

[The Troll]

HH in spite of popular belief and what was spread around Bush didn't have a problem with stem cell research what he had the problem with was cloning and that is what he didn't want to spend federal dollars on.  But, like you mentioned in an earlier post they have had much better luck with harvested stem cells which were not embryonic.  I just don't understand why they wouldn't put more money into researching non embryonic stem cells since they've had better luck with those.

  Come on "Me" why would you want to put all of your eggs in one basket.  Why spend all of your time on just one cure.  What would happen after spending years on one method only to find you were chasing ghosts.  The waste of time, money and then to have to start all over again.

  Bush had a problem with clones.  Why make clones?  When it so easy to make a person.  Just look how some of these women can drop them.

[Palehorse]

Adult stem cells can only be utilized to regenerate cells from the exact same tissues from which they are derived. Adult stem cells are rare in adult tissues, so isolation of these cells from adult tissue is challenging, and methods for replication of ASC via culture have not been worked out, making them less useful in stem cell replacement therapy because massive numbers of stem cells are required for each treatment.

Embryonic stem cells can become any type of cell or tissue within the human body, and are easily replicated via culture, making them more desirable for stem cell therapy. One potential problem with the culturing process for replication are the mouse ESC's sometimes used as a coating for the dish; providing a feeder layer and a surface for the cells to adhere to. This represents a risk that viruses or other macromolecules in the mouse cells may be transmitted to the human cells. Science has however discovered methods to regenerate ESC's without using mouse ESC's and so this risk has now been addressed.

While not very efficient due to the inviability of a large number of initial cultures, once a successful culture is established it can produce millions of ESC's per culture, and even more with re-plating of the initial successful culture, making them ideal for stem cell therapy.

[Henry Hawk]

  Embryonic Research Driven by Greed, not Science
(Original title: "The Great Stem-Cell-Research Scam)  By Michael Fumento   

Medical-research insiders know that embryonic-stem-cell technology is proving a dead end – Dr. Bernadine Healy, a former director of the National Institutes of Health and once an ES-cell-research enthusiast, calls it "obsolete." But the Obama administration has opened wide the federal funding floodgates – the triumph of a big special-interest PR and lobbying campaign.
In fact, the research will line the pockets of a relatively few individuals – at considerable cost for the rest of us, since the funding means billions that won't go to more promising areas.
Though ES cells have long been touted as the miracle just down the road, researchers keep driving into big potholes. For starters, there's the rejection problem: Your body naturally attacks foreign cells, even ones that might help you. So cell recipients must permanently use dangerous immunosuppressive drugs.
Further, the cells have a nasty tendency to become cancerous or to form teratomas – meaning "monster tumors." While usually benign, these can grow larger than a football and often contain hair and teeth. Yech!
Perhaps that problem can be solved someday, but even University of Wisconsin scientist James Thomson, the creator of the first human ES-cell line, says treatments and cures could be decades away.
Conversely, adult stem cells (AS cells, meaning any naturally found stem cell not from embryos), are far more controllable (that is, easier to direct to become the desired cell type) and have thus been saving lives for decades, via (for example) bone-marrow transplants. More recently, AS cells have treated illnesses including cancers, autoimmune disease, cardiovascular disease, immunodeficiency disorders and neural degenerative diseases.
Plus, AS cells are often "self-donated" – eliminating rejection problems (though AS rejection even from outside donors has turned out to be relatively minimal).
Researchers originally found promise in ES cells mainly because they thought only ES cells could be converted into all types of mature cells. But since 2002, dozens of published studies have shown the same can be done with a vast array of AS cells, from placenta to testes.
Then, two years ago, scientists discovered how to make "induced pluripotent stem cells" from human-skin cells. These are just as flexible as embryonic ones – but, as with AS cells, have neither the health drawbacks nor the moral problems associated with the embryonic variety.
In short, other lines of inquiry are unquestionably far more promising than ES cells – yet this research will now get a big funding boost. Why?
Basically, the lobby for ES-cell research succeeded in shutting down critics (or even questions) by presenting the question as "medical progress versus pro-life politics" (as one Newsweek cover put it).
The media, observes the Genetics & Society Center, consistently squeeze all reporting into a prefab story line of "scientists hoping to save lives versus opponents of abortion rights who see destroying stem cells as equivalent to taking a life."
And it's a very wealthy lobby. Research funding can generate tremendous income with no treatments, because human and animal ES cells, and materials and techniques used to manipulate them, can all be patented. Licensing fees make them worth a fortune.
One holder of many important ES-cell-research patents charges $75,000 to more than $250,000 per license, plus annual payments and royalties, The Wall Street Journal reports. "They clearly see this as the goose that lays the golden egg," an ES-cell researcher told the paper.
All this drives what wheelchair-bound medical activist Jim Kelly calls "the embryonic-research economic juggernaut."
The lobby displayed its awesome power in 2004 when backers of California's Proposition 71 outspent opponents by 60 to 1. The payoff: $3 billion shifted from taxpayer pockets to ES-cell researchers.
As journalist Neil Munroe has documented, researchers who cash in routinely present themselves – with enthusiastic media help – as neutral parties. Best known is Dr. Irving Weissman, director of Stanford University's Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine, a frequent critic of AS-cell research who's made millions from ES-cell patents. In 2004, he appeared in TV commercials pleading for a "YES" vote on Prop 71 as "an MD" who "took an oath that the very highest priority was the treatment of patients." Prop 71 now funds his institute.
Weissman routinely attacks AS cell research, as when he declared in 2004 "Scientifically, there is no independently verified evidence today that a pure stem cell of one type – adult tissue, say blood forming – can turn into another tissue at all." Yet a slew of such studies had already appeared in peer-reviewed medical and science journals – including one co-authored by a certain Irving Weissman.
"There's a lot of pressure to give ES researchers what they want," says David Hess, a neurologist at the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta. But "everybody is fighting over the same pie" – a dime spent on dead-end ES work is a dime unavailable for research, stem cell or otherwise, with true promise to heal the sick.
"People are dying, and they're going to continue to die, and people are paralyzed and will continue to stay paralyzed," says Jim Kelly, "all of them a victim of the embryonic-research economic juggernaut."