Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[Henry Hawk]

Of course, no one realizes that a large percentage of these people were very likely forced into their current condition by the very jackasses they are protesting.

whatever....so go ahead and shit on cop cars....that makes it okay?  these guys are being encouraged by the POTUS too...

no comparison whatsoever from these POS to the tea party attendees.....zero.

[Palehorse]

whatever....so go ahead and shit on cop cars....that makes it okay?  these guys are being encouraged by the POTUS too...

no comparison whatsoever from these POS to the tea party attendees.....zero.

You judge all by the acts of one? Really?!

You had better stop gulping the kool aid and take a closer look at just whom these groups are comprised of. I did, and that statement you posted couldn't be any more wrong.

They are average workers, and former workers, who are tired of the pandering to corporate Amerika, and the propaganda being put out there by the GOP propaganda machine. They are tired of the corporate greed; CEO's making 5 times in salary than they did just 5 years ago, while the people actually doing the work remain at the same salary they were making in 1980. (Those that are lucky enough to even have a job).

They are the chronically unemployed, who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, and their homes, and their families.

They are working class citizens who bridle at the relentless fees institutions like banks are now ramming down our throats just to use the damned checking accounts and debit cards that society now DEMANDS we use in order to exist . (Those fees will subsequently drive banking profits to 13% over that which their now illegal swipe fees brought them).

In fact, most of them are just like you, except they aren't drinking the kool aid!

EDIT: And you're damned right the POTUS is on their side! It's the EXACT portion of our society he has been fighting for since day one of his term; and the same portion of society the conservatives are attempting to sacrifice at the altar of corporate Amerika!

This tripe about the top 1% being the job creators was a lie when George first put it on his teleprompter and spoke the words. It was a lie then, and it is a lie now.

The fact is the lion's share of the job creation that has transpired in this country over the past 2 decades has come through SMALL businesses; those whom the tax breaks do not even apply to! And those who continue to struggle against the almighty corporation! (And continue to lose each and every day).

There were hundreds of them in Indianapolis today. Were they shitting on squad cars? NO! They are all pissed off for the very reasons quoted above, and congress had best get their asses in gear, or they'll be joining them next year!

[Palehorse]

[me]

Seems strange that he ignores and demonizes a group who isn't violent nor were any of them ever arrested at protests but will condone the violence and rudeness of a group that is, in large part, sponsored by unions and a radical left organization and that is paying a large part of the people to protest.  Makes one wonder if they would even be there protesting if they weren't getting paid.  I'd say the group would certainly be smaller...much smaller.

[Palehorse]

Seems strange that he ignores and demonizes a group who isn't violent nor were any of them ever arrested at protests but will condone the violence and rudeness of a group that is, in large part, sponsored by unions and a radical left organization and that is paying a large part of the people to protest.  Makes one wonder if they would even be there protesting if they weren't getting paid.  I'd say the group would certainly be smaller...much smaller.

First of all, where are they being violent? You take one incident and now they are all violent?

Using that methodology I would argue that the tea party's rhetoric inspired at least one person to kill and maim in Arizona, via Sarah Wailin's target propaganda! So don't be throwing rocks.

Secondly, its not a huge stretch to see how corporate Amerika's funding of congress is what is behind the union busting going on in this country.

[Palehorse]

You guys are drinking the kool aid by the barrel full. You are believing the crap your idols are spoon feeding you:


INDIANAPOLIS —  Hundreds of people of all ages marched around Monument Circle in downtown Indianapolis on Saturday to protest what they see as economic inequality and a government that doesn't listen.

More than 1,000 people gathered at Veterans Memorial Plaza to take part in Occupy Indianapolis, which was inspired by the 3-week-old Occupy Wall Street protest in New York. The protest was largely organized online through Facebook and other websites.

The protesters carrying signs with slogans including "People not profits" and "Stop corporate greed" were surrounded by war memorials and the American Legion's national headquarters. The throng broke into occasional chants of "You are the 99," referring to the 99 percent of the American people they say government and corporations take for granted. As they marched several blocks to the Soldiers and Sailors Monument, they chanted, "This is what democracy looks like." One man waved a U.S. flag bearing corporate logos instead of stars.

About an hour after the protest began, organizers invited the crowd to break into discussion groups to brainstorm their next step but most just followed a group that marched around Monument Circle and returned to the starting point.

Many people said they joined the protest out of frustration of one form or another.

Mark Gilbert, 52, of Fishers said he was disturbed by the battering he has taken from the economy. He said the savings in his 401(K) had plummeted by 42 percent since 2008.

"I feel like I've been robbed, and I'm just letting it out," he said.

Others said they were fed up because the government listens more to corporations than it does voters.

Trista Foster, a student from Indianapolis who works two jobs, said economic benefits were supposed to trickle down, but that didn't happen anymore.

"We're tired of being taken advantage of, "she said. "We're tired of being stepped on."

Jithin Vijayan, a U.S. citizen born in India who attends the University of Indianapolis, said he believed the protests across the country that have followed the Occupy Wall Street demonstration were the beginning of a political movement.

"I think this is a wonderful moment," he said. "I think it's time for a change."

Occupy Indianapolis spokesman Joh Padgett said the group planned to move to the Statehouse grounds Saturday evening and the protest would continue there indefinitely.


http://heraldbulletin.com/breakingnews/x1038034005/Occupy-Wall-Street-inspires-Indianapolis-protest

The Tea Party now has a growing opposition, and one that represents the TRUE working class America. They are sick of the corporate greed, and the fact that wall street has been allowed to rape average citizens, and rob them blind, while NONE of them have been held accountable for their actions.

They are sick of a congress that does NOTHING but stall and pander to corporate America, and a SCOTUS that does the same!

. . .While President Obama has not done things perfectly, he has injected some fairness and balance into the economy to spur growth and job creation. More needs to be done, but his attempts have been met mostly by gridlock and a GOP that only wants to see him fail.

In the meantime, corporate profits are at an all-time high, but corporations are paying lower taxes than ever before. Some aren't paying any at all. This week, we see banks tacking on extra fees -- which, contrary to what they argue, would lead them to 13% more in profits than they were making before the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act went into effect. At the same time, CEOs, while also making record amounts of money (the average CEO makes $11 million a year while the average person makes $40,000), have laid off millions of Americans while sending our jobs overseas. These are not nameless, faceless Americans. They are our neighbors, our friends and even our families. It is personal.. . .

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/08/opinion/cardona-why-occupy/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

And things are only going to get worse. Once those of us still working are forced to endure the upcoming healthcare changes CONGRESS forced down our throats, and have every single thing applied toward a deductible that is twice what it was this year, you'll only begin to understand.

Soon, left unchecked, this crap will suck you into the drain too. Then you'll see who is right and who is pandering!

[Palehorse]

And once again, here's an opinion I can get behind and support fully!

(CNN) -- . . .
It's downright disgusting to listen to conservative and Republican lawmakers, presidential candidates, business owners and media commentators use such vitriol to describe the Occupy Wall Street protesters as hell-bent on destroying America.
How in the world can anyone even form their lips to say such a thing when this very country was founded on the basis of dissent?
Self-professed rodeo clown Glenn Beck castigates the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but he's always running off at the mouth about the Founding Fathers and how brilliant they were.
Without dissent and protest, there is no United States of America! It's as if these folks never picked up a history book to understand how this nation was formed. The very notion of a United States of America started with someone saying, writing and screaming, "Enough is enough!" And when more and more of the early settlers became enraged at the heavy-handed actions of the British, that's when we were on our path to the American Revolution.
Do any of these so-called strict constructionists even read the very U.S. Constitution they love to wave in the faces of their critics?

Every American, no matter if you're young or old; rich or poor; red state or blue state; Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Native American; has the freedom to assemble and freedom of speech, which is at the heart of these protests.
In this same space, I praised the tea party for not sitting around and complaining. Instead, they organized and mobilized to affect the political discourse in the Republican Party and have definitely had their voices heard. I may disagree with a number of things the tea party advocates, but there is no way I would condemn them for doing it. As Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas said, "The right to revolt has sources deep in our history."
It's increasingly clear that some Americans love to talk a good game about protests, yet hate it when someone who opposes their views decides to stand up and be heard.
Remember all of those political voices championing the people of Iran taking to the streets to protest? How about Tunisia? Egypt? Libya? Bahrain? What would this world be without protest?
We would have never seen freedom in Eastern Europe were it not without the people there, in the words of civil rights activist Fannie Lou Hamer, being "sick and tired of being sick and tired." Praise God that the children of South Africa, led by the African National Congress, didn't ignore the calls of history. If so, Nelson Mandela would be dying in jail and freedom would have never ended apartheid.
Activists 'not surprised' by criticism Rev. Lowery 'excited' by Occupy movement Occupy Wall Street spreads to Philly
This nation would not have been forced to make real the very principles cited in the Declaration of Independence, or treat every human being as an equal, were it not for the civil rights movement. Those brave men, women and children chose not to accept the status quo, and this nation and the world are much better off because they did.
As a supporter of Occupy Wall Street, I understand fully the sentiment that is being expressed. The massive corporate greed that has devastated the wages of the common worker, and seen the pay of a bunch on Wall Street go through the stratosphere for literally making nothing tangible, has been immoral and obscene.
Wall Street and their protectors in Washington -- Democrat and Republican -- say nothing is wrong with making a profit. That is absolutely true. But what is shameful and outlandish is to watch the American taxpayer save the jobs (and big bonuses) of these financial miscreants, only to see them jack up fees left and right. Without the American people they would have had to pack up their belongings and hit the pavement. Instead, they refuse to work with homeowners struggling to meet the big mortgage payments that Wall Street helped underwrite; then sell in exotic transactions that wrecked this nation's financial infrastructure.
Conservatives call this an assault on capitalism. No, Occupy Wall Street is about trying to bring some decency and honesty back to an industry that used to have some. Instead, what we have today are literal financial pirates trying to take the largest booty they can find. They don't care about the long-term health of this country. It's all about the next quarterly earnings reports and their massive year-end bonuses.
This fight that Occupy Wall Street is engaged in is nothing short of a battle for the soul of this nation. Are we going to continue to allow ourselves to be held hostage by the big banks? Will we continue to allow them to trample over us with their "too big to fail" attitude?
No, no, and hell no. It's time to bring these Goliaths to their knees by any means necessary. That mean the young and righteous Davids must protest, march, sit-in, work the halls of Congress and state capitals nationwide, and make it clear that as long as Wall Street, its lobbyists and political protectors continue to mistreat the common man and woman, they are our mortal enemy.
Now is not the time to dismiss the protesters as a bunch of lefty college students with no guidance, no substance and no mission. Instead of listening to politicians pimp the next generation, these folks are saying in the words of the founders of the nation's first black newspaper, Freedom's Journal: "We wish to plead our own cause; too long have others spoken for us."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/08/opinion/martin-occupy-wall-street/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Henry Hawk]

isn't funny how when a huge chunk of this population see's the country going down a wrong path...and desides to protest and stand up for their beliefs, the other side dipicts them as "evil or bad"....

be it the wall street protestors or the tea party......wtf?

I'm speaking from my heart here....I have had the priviledge to get to know Palehorse on a personal level.  I have nothing but 100% respect for him as a man, friend, husband, father, grandpa.  I admire his ability to form his opinions and mostly his ability to put words together to express his feelings.

I know all to well his compassion for his views on what is best for this country.  He more than anyone has been able to get my attention to even try to digest his points of view.  With tha being said, I too am so very confident and passionate with what needs to be done to restore this country into being economicly sound for ALL Americans.  Though, I tend to argue MORE for fun than anything on here, trading jab with Mr. Troll and up until recently enjoyed Ex.  I would post things with full intentions of getting the blood pressure up on the trollmister....Lord knows he was/is good at doing that to me from time to time.

My point to all of this is, this country is coming very quickly to a crossroads in my opinion....1/3 of this nation is strong left, 1/3 is strong right....I think the other 1/3 is going to determine the fate of our lives.

Folks like Palehorse and some other very good aquaintences of mine share very similar beliefs.  On the side, I know many, many, very well respected and prominent businemen, doctors and some very good friends that share similar views as I do.  The are NOT kool-aid drinkers as I know for a fact PH and company are not either.  Where is this whole thing going to end?  I think we are starting to feel how many did back in the days leading up to the Civil War.  Brothers fought agianst one another. Because of the passion they held close to their hearts and cherished.  For the longest time, I kept dismissing that possiblity if it could ever happen during my lifetime.  As God as my witness, I hope and pray that some how, some way, there can be a fix to this approaching storm.

I ask, Ex to you mostly, can we TRY to be civil to one another, with a serious discussion?  The attacks on one another, and I know I am so very guilty, needs to take a break.  I personally do not have the strong desire to stay here...I have nothing to gain, if attacking is all there is left.  Things are too heavy for me with so much at stake.  My family is without saying my only real concern....and to do what is best for them....this next election may be the most important time in our history.  Okay, I have had a couple of beers, and winding down for the day.....but, this is how my heart feels at this moment, to those who gives a rats behind.

[Palehorse]

I don't find much to disagree with in your post Hank. I too know a lot of very well respected and learned individuals who see things my way, and at least one that predicted things coming to this back in 2003. And his is the opinion I currently give the most weight to.

In fact, he stated this country will collapse financially, and will be in very real danger of dissolution due to an outside influence that will take advantage of it.

I don't know about all of that, but your commentary surrounding the potential for yet another civil war in this country is something I have personally been stating around here for years. It would seem our fellow Americans are hell bent for leather to repeat history; because we failed to learn the lessons so many of our ancestors paid for with their blood and very lives back in the 1860's.

We failed to keep our promises to ourselves, and to those whose rights were wrongfully denied them; rights bestowed upon them not by any piece of paper, but by life itself.

Moreover, we failed to keep at the forefront of our nation, that piece of paper that outlined exactly how we were to avoid repeating the history of this nation, by keeping our spiritual lives unabashedly separate from the governance of this nation. As that old adage goes, "there are two topics that are sure to end in argument and vigorous disagreement; politics and religion." (Paraphrased) Mixing the two is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

We failed to face our demons when, once this nation was formed and strong, we chose not to look back and realize that the concepts and ideals this nation were founded upon drove a nation of native peoples out of their homes, and took their lives; in some cases to near extinction. And then, a century later when we did make an attempt, it was nothing more than a placebo.

This is not the first time this nation has been faced with challenges of its own creation, being protested by its citizenry. It is not the first time in my own lifetime that I have seen such things. One need only to think back to Nam and the democratic national convention in Chicago, and Kent State, to understand just how bad things are on the precipice of being in this country. And this time I fear it will be much, much worse.

Already today rent a cops at the Air and Space Museum in DC decided to pepper spray protestors who attempted to enter the facility; an over reaction that threatens to push things ever closer to internal conflict in this nation. Each time a nincompoop like that makes a stupid decision it increases the likelihood that right here in this country we are going to see what happened in Egypt, Greece, etc. happen here; and worse.

How long before the state turns our sons and daughters against their own? Not too much longer I fear. And what will the outcome be?

The only thing I see ending all of this is another national disaster. And if we aren't careful it will come while we are busy trying to slit each others throats.

[Henry Hawk]

The only thing I see ending all of this is another national disaster. And if we aren't careful it will come while we are busy trying to slit each others throats.

Bingo! to that comment right there....I too see that as what will potentially brings us ALL to our knees and remind us we are ALL  Americans....

the only comment I have regarding Air and Space Museum,  they from what I saw and read, they were trying to push through the doors and enter...only then were s few pepper sprayed and the only arrested one person......making excuses for this kind of behavior only going to further potential violence. 

[Palehorse]

That same thought process eventually brought us Kent State. That's all I'll say on the subject, aside from what I have already said.

The most dangerous step taken to this point, IMHO, was when the SCOTUS granted the rights each one of us as individuals were granted, to faceless corporations.

As I said before, 10's of thousands of us could pool every red cent we have together and never come close to the amount of money just one of these corporations can spend on ONE candidate, much less the entirety of congress.

The SCOTUS sold us out to the corporations, who are buying and will continue to buy, the votes and legislation of our elected officials. "We the people" no longer refers to you and i. It refers to the corporations with the deepest pockets.  It refers to the healthcare insurance industry that continues to rape the average working class families of this country with no end in sight.

When the healthcare bill started out, it was supposed to disallow the practice of applying diagnostic testing toward deductibles and restrict the amount they can increase deductibles. As it came out of congress, it just opened the door to the wolves. Now they are doubling the deductibles, and charging everything toward them; prescription medications, diagnostic testing, doctor visits, EVERYTHING. You will now pay FULL price for everything until you meet your deductible. And oh, your premiums are going up another 19 - 30 % too!

Banks are now feeing us to death! And WE bailed their asses out! I guess its their way of paying us back, to make us pay ourselves back by charging us for it!

Wall street, another wolf pack that has been allowed to run rampant and roughshod over every damned citizen of this nation. Corporations were in cahoots with them when they sold us the 401k as the singular source for retirement income, (and tanking the lions share of pension programs, leaving the majority of the population at the mercy of wall street). Now, instead of the employers depleting our pension funds Wall Street has robbed us blind, dooming an ever growing portion of this country's population to a future of working until they die; IF they can find a job!

How long do these idiots think the average American is going to take this crap?

[Henry Hawk]

How long do these idiots think the average American is going to take this crap?

and THAT is what the Tea Party is ALL about.

•  Limited federal government
•  Individual freedoms
•  Personal responsibility
•  Free markets
•  Returning political power to the states and the people.

Nothing more and nothing less.....How can this be disputed?  Yet, it has been attacked by the media as a Political Party which the bottom line, they are NOT racists or white trash, just some folks who are passionate about the state of Washington...

as far as the SCOTUS decision,

You believe that our constitution does not allow free speech to such groups as the NAACP, the Sierra Club or the National Rifle Association, JUST because they are Corporations?  I think it is dangerous when the Gov can start deciding WHO can speak or WHO can contribute their OWN money to whatever cause or reason....I understand the sucky side to it, as you pointed out to the potential "buying" of politicians...so where was the outcry where Unions give huge amounts to political parties?

I'm like you I WISH it would all monies given to politicians would be by individuals only...but, is that constitutionaly right?....I don't think it is nor does the SCOTUS.

[Palehorse]

and THAT is what the Tea Party is ALL about.

•  Limited federal government
•  Individual freedoms
•  Personal responsibility
•  Free markets
•  Returning political power to the states and the people.

Nothing more and nothing less.....How can this be disputed?  Yet, it has been attacked by the media as a Political Party which the bottom line, they are NOT racists or white trash, just some folks who are passionate about the state of Washington...

as far as the SCOTUS decision,

You believe that our constitution does not allow free speech to such groups as the NAACP, the Sierra Club or the National Rifle Association, JUST because they are Corporations?  I think it is dangerous when the Gov can start deciding WHO can speak or WHO can contribute their OWN money to whatever cause or reason....I understand the sucky side to it, as you pointed out to the potential "buying" of politicians...so where was the outcry where Unions give huge amounts to political parties?

I'm like you I WISH it would all monies given to politicians would be by individuals only...but, is that constitutionaly right?....I don't think it is nor does the SCOTUS.

The tea party has already shown their true colors as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't vote for a single one of them if my life depended on it. As is my right.

It's not the fact that they allow corporations to speak freely, just as you and I do. It's the fact that corporations are NOT required to operate within those constitutional rights, nor are they legally required to respect them as they relate to the individuals who are their employees. (If you think otherwise I hope you never are subjected to that cold, hard, grim fact. Say ONE thing your employer doesn't agree with in this state and you will though).

LIMITATIONS to contributions would serve to level the playing field. But instead, the SCOTUS rules they can contribute without limitation. THAT takes the individuals in this country right out of the game; instantly. As we are seeing right now. However, a soul-less, face-less corporation is NOT an individual and so in my mind they have NO constitutional rights as they relate to individuals.

They have a right to conduct operations within the legal bounds of the countries within which they operate, and within the applicable legislation. That's it.

Just whose rights would we be trampling if we eliminated their ability to contribute toward the political campaign of any politician? A corporation is NOT an individual, it is a business. It should have NO vote!

[Henry Hawk]

for now, I will only agree to disagree....my eyes are too heavy, and my mind is shutting down.

I wish you a good night.

[Palehorse]

Gnight.

When you wake up tomorrow here's an example of just how things are working in this country thaks to the SCOTUS decision:

In the months leading up to the Illinois Legislature's approval of a bill that would have increased electric rates statewide, utility giants Commonwealth Edison and Ameren and their executives and affiliates gave more than $1.3 million to campaign funds benefitting state lawmakers and their party organizations, an analysis by the Better Government Association has found.

The "Smart Grid" bill was approved in late May, but Gov. Pat Quinn vetoed it Sept. 12, branding it "a nightmare for consumers."

Attorney General Lisa Madigan also opposed the bill, saying it would guarantee ComEd and Ameren yearly profits of at least 10 percent and calling the proposed technological fixes to the electricity grid "expensive and unproven."

There are efforts to revive the measure, in some fashion, in the Legislature's veto session, starting this month.
A Smart Grid proposal was presented to legislative leaders in spring 2010 but withdrawn for lack of support. The ComEd and Ameren campaign contributions were made between the start of 2010 and May 31 of this year. Between June 1 and Aug. 31, the utility interests gave additional contributions totaling more than $170,000 to legislators and their party organizations, Illinois State Board of Elections records show, boosting the total amount to about $1.5 million.

Representatives of the two utilities said the contributions had no impact on the voting. Legislators who got donations from the utility interests in the months before the "Smart Grid" vote said the money played no part in how they voted.
Still, the BGA analysis found that, of the 98 legislators who voted in favor of the bill, 90 reported contributions from the ComEd and Ameren interests that ranged from $500 to $93,750. The most money went to House Republican leader Tom Cross (R-Oswego).
House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) was second, getting $55,000. The Democratic Party of Illinois, which Michael Madigan runs, received $62,500.
In the Senate, minority leader Christine Radogno (R-Lemont) ranked first, getting $52,500. President John Cullerton (D-Chicago) was the top recipient among Demo­cratic senators at $21,300.
Among other findings:
† House members who voted for the bill received six times more campaign money from the energy interests between Jan. 1, 2010, and June 30, 2011, than those who voted against it. On the Senate side, supporters received three times more.
† Of 177 legislators in both chambers, 157 received donations from ComEd, a subsidiary of Chicago-based Exelon, and Ameren interests during that period.
† Though most donations went to individual lawmakers, the energy companies, their employees and affiliates donated roughly $470,000 to the state Democratic and Republican parties and related campaign funds that benefit legislators.
† In the three months after the May balloting, the two utilities contributed $15,540 to 10 of the 24 senators who voted against the bill.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/8020554-418/utilities-gave-legislators-13-million-in-push-for-smart-grid-bill.html