Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[Palehorse]

Post Script:

Exactly when did a corporation put its life on the line in defense of this country and its ideals?
When did a corporation ever put what is best for this country in front of profit?

Never, on both counts, but the citizens of this country have been doing both for centuries now!

[Exterminator]

INDIANAPOLIS —  Hundreds of people of all ages marched around Monument Circle in downtown Indianapolis on Saturday to protest what they see as economic inequality and a government that doesn't listen.

More than 1,000 people gathered at Veterans Memorial Plaza to take part in Occupy Indianapolis, which was inspired by the 3-week-old Occupy Wall Street protest in New York. The protest was largely organized online through Facebook and other websites.

I didn't march but I did go to see and listen and, unlike the claims made by the tea party about their (significantly smaller), this crowd was economically and racially diverse.  Even more interestingly, there was no one individual or group of self-appointed "leaders".  Everyone was encouraged to step up to the microphone and share their thoughts, opinions and stories and, more importantly, every action the group took was voted on by the entire body.  Watching the whole thing made me feel like I was, for perhaps the first time in my life, seeing what real democracy was supposed to look like.

[Exterminator]

"It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men."[2] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1944

[Palehorse]

"It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men."[2] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1944

These words are more applicable today than they were 67 years ago; demonstrating how we have failed to learn the lessons of our history. (Or are choosing to ignore them in favor of wealth and power for the few).

GREAT post Ex! 

[me]

But those rights should be earned not just handed to people.  If they are just doled out how does one learn responsibility and appreciation for what they have? 

[Exterminator]

But those rights should be earned not just handed to people.  If they are just doled out how does one learn responsibility and appreciation for what they have?

Wrong.  Inalienable rights are just that.

[Palehorse]

But those rights should be earned not just handed to people.  If they are just doled out how does one learn responsibility and appreciation for what they have?

So, explain how one earns:


The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
when these same mines, farms, shops, and industries have fled the friggin country because of inept governance?

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; when those business entities left are engaging in union busting, (endorsed by governments at the state level and undertaken by them as well), and the hiring of temporary employees who receive no benefits and minimum wages?  When corporate profits are put before the well being and needs of those who put forth the labor necessary for these corporations to build their products?

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad; when the businesses that remain in this country must compete with third world imports that are cheaper because they are not subjected to tariffs domestically, but those exported by US companies are subjected to 20-40% tariff rates and more there?

The right of every family to a decent home; when one cannot find a decent job, and millions are being put out of the homes they lived in for decades, because of it?

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; when health care insurance is not only unaffordable to those who do not have jobs, but increasingly so for those that do have jobs? When increasingly the choices that must be made by these families is between food and medicine?

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment; when our elected officials not only hold these protections hostage, but threaten each and every week to eliminate them?

The right to a good education; when increasingly our state and local officials put fluff before substance when it comes to our school systems, and college education is becoming comparable to the price of a home?

These rights are not just "doled out" but used by those who need them the most. You are ascribing the abuses of the system to everyone, when it has historically been the very few. Only when the many need to use them do you see fit to eliminate or vastly reduce them; punishing (robbing) the many who have paid their fair share with decades of hard and faithful work in their chosen occupations.

[Anne]

I am interested in what is defined as "decent housing". When I was first married, we lived in a 400 square ft. apartment with cement block walls, single pane windows with no storm windows, industrial tile floors, and 5 ft. of counter space that included the kitchen sink. We were responsible for the heat and electricity. It took 1 1/2 paychecks. We thought it was great. Those apartments are still there, and in a pretty crime free neighborhood. No one wants to live there, too small, not a nice enough kitchen, no garage, etc. What has changed? The roof didn't leak, the bathroom and kitchen worked, it just isn't "classy" or big.

There is no reason for anyone to be hungry and if they want to work they should be able to find a job. I will not dispute that. I guess I feel like so many younger people expect not to work at all.  If a person is out of work or can't afford food, there are a lot of food pantries in Anderson and most only require some kind of ID. There are also places to get free hot meals daily. I know this isn't a solution but it is available to anyone who is hungry. Call 211 for help locating these places.

My oldest grandchildren are both 30. They both have jobs, not really high paying jobs but can support themselves (when they want to). One of them just has a high school education and works with computer imaging or something like that. The other is a social worker. The others are all still in high school or younger.

I don't know what the answer is, I do feel that the destruction of the family unit has contributed to a lot of today's problems, but that is a discussion for another time.

[dan foster]

These words are more applicable today than they were 67 years ago; demonstrating how we have failed to learn the lessons of our history. (Or are choosing to ignore them in favor of wealth and power for the few).

GREAT post Ex! 

There is only one lesson from history and that is no one ever learns the lessons from history!

[The Troll]

There is only one lesson from history and that is no one ever learns the lessons from history!

  I guess you don't understand.  As Herman Cain says, "If you don't have a job and you are not rich, It's your fault."  To me that's so much bullshit.  Right?

[me]

So, explain how one earns:


The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
when these same mines, farms, shops, and industries have fled the friggin country because of inept governance?

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; when those business entities left are engaging in union busting, (endorsed by governments at the state level and undertaken by them as well), and the hiring of temporary employees who receive no benefits and minimum wages?  When corporate profits are put before the well being and needs of those who put forth the labor necessary for these corporations to build their products?

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad; when the businesses that remain in this country must compete with third world imports that are cheaper because they are not subjected to tariffs domestically, but those exported by US companies are subjected to 20-40% tariff rates and more there?

The right of every family to a decent home; when one cannot find a decent job, and millions are being put out of the homes they lived in for decades, because of it?

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; when health care insurance is not only unaffordable to those who do not have jobs, but increasingly so for those that do have jobs? When increasingly the choices that must be made by these families is between food and medicine?

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment; when our elected officials not only hold these protections hostage, but threaten each and every week to eliminate them?

The right to a good education; when increasingly our state and local officials put fluff before substance when it comes to our school systems, and college education is becoming comparable to the price of a home?

These rights are not just "doled out" but used by those who need them the most. You are ascribing the abuses of the system to everyone, when it has historically been the very few. Only when the many need to use them do you see fit to eliminate or vastly reduce them; punishing (robbing) the many who have paid their fair share with decades of hard and faithful work in their chosen occupations.

Plain and simple....it is up to each individual to take care of their own needs not the governments.  I didn't work in the UK or Greece and it isn't going to work here.  There are charities and some government programs available for those who truly can't take care of themselves but they should remain just that, for the few who can't not everyone in the entire US including illegal aliens. 

And Social Security is not a government hand out it is something which was earned and if I had put the amount in the bank all those years that I paid into SS I would be getting a bunch more in interest each month right now, even at the current rate, than I get from the government. (Mostly directed at Troll)

[Palehorse]

Plain and simple....it is up to each individual to take care of their own needs not the governments.  I didn't work in the UK or Greece and it isn't going to work here.  There are charities and some government programs available for those who truly can't take care of themselves but they should remain just that, for the few who can't not everyone in the entire US including illegal aliens. 

And Social Security is not a government hand out it is something which was earned and if I had put the amount in the bank all those years that I paid into SS I would be getting a bunch more in interest each month right now, even at the current rate, than I get from the government. (Mostly directed at Troll)

That just doesn't make any sense. THAT is your answer to all of the questions? 

[me]

That just doesn't make any sense. THAT is your answer to all of the questions? 

Pretty much since it's government interference that keeps making things worse for everyone due to the unintended consequences of crap they try to do to "fix" things.  They, congress especially the senate,  are all so busy trying to pander to every group out there that wants a handout they're fighting against each other.  Hell even Biden is out there saying stupid shit and I'm surprised Obama don't ship his ass out the door, or lock it up behind one. 

Hand outs and cradle to grave care just won't work.

[Palehorse]

Pretty much since it's government interference that keeps making things worse for everyone due to the unintended consequences of crap they try to do to "fix" things.  They, congress especially the senate,  are all so busy trying to pander to every group out there that wants a handout they're fighting against each other.  Hell even Biden is out there saying stupid shit and I'm surprised Obama don't ship his ass out the door, or lock it up behind one. 

Hand outs and cradle to grave care just won't work.

Your simplistic view is not only unrealistic, but also clearly indicates you have no idea surrounding how we got here in the first place. . . 

[me]

Your simplistic view is not only unrealistic, but also clearly indicates you have no idea surrounding how we got here in the first place. . . 

Yes I do but I also know that cradle to grave is not the answer nor is redistribution.  Government interference and overspending is what got us here and more of the same won't get us out it will only dig us deeper.