Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[The Troll]

                                          Old George W. Bush still has a screw loose.

  In his lattest speech, George W. admitted that he and his presidency water boarded.   This is a war crime.  He also said he would do it again.  He water boarded the guy over 100 times and all he got was lies.

   One more thing George W. said that his biggest disappointment was that he didn't get Social Security privatized.  This would have been great in this last stockmarket bubble burst.

  Old George W. has one thing in common with the George H. his dad, he was born with a silver boot in his mouth.

[LOsborne]

I have to hit the shower, me. Re-reading I see I have become rather strident. I apologize. Luv ya.

[me]

It would have been no problem had they been used before Katrina struck. 

Jesus! The keys were not readily accessible. There was no electricity, no clean water, and no functioning infrastructure. How was this operation going to be executed? Do you live in the real world?

Now, how about addressing the other two BLATANT FALSEHOODS you are disseminating?

[LOsborne]

From your own source:
It is unclear whether Mayor Nagin knew these particular buses existed, since the Orleans Parish School Board is not under his jurisdiction and his office would not normally know the location of OPSB bus yards or be able to contact the drivers of those buses to place them into service. Normally it is the job of FEMA to coordinate between the various local jurisdictions such as the OPSB and the City of New Orleans in this case. That is, under the rules of prior hurricane responses, FEMA would ask all local jurisdictions for a list of resources under their control. Then FEMA would have taken a request from Nagin for buses, relayed it to the Orleans Parish School Board or other local jurisdictions which had buses, and at that point the OPSB would have provided the buses to Nagin. That coordination did not happen here, but it is unclear whether Nagin ever made such a request prior to the hurricane and after the hurricane they were underwater and useless.

Now, keep in mind that mandatory evacuation order was issued on Sunday, before the storm. On a Sunday, reaching the licensed school bus drivers (and persuading them to drive evacuees) would have been  daunting task, even if anyone had tried. They couldn't just hand out the keys to anybody -- like sticks of gum. Liability issues would have prevented it. And exactly what use would school buses, with their narrow aisles and sardine-can seats, have been to nursing homes and hospitals? 

From your source again:
Roughly 150,000 people were not evacuated from the city. During the Hurricane Ivan evacuation 600,000 people failed to evacute the city.

Ivan hit almost exactly one year earlier. Looks to me like the evacuation effort for Katrina was four times more successful.

[The Troll]

    HEY, where in hell is Dick Cheney.  Old Shooter

   Just when you want to hear his BIG MOUTH on the Republican side, of it of how to fix oil leaks.  He hides out.  Do the Republican here of the forum, who love him and George W., know where he is.

  Where is Dickie Boy's loud mouth and know it all daughter.     

[me]

From your own source:
It is unclear whether Mayor Nagin knew these particular buses existed, since the Orleans Parish School Board is not under his jurisdiction and his office would not normally know the location of OPSB bus yards or be able to contact the drivers of those buses to place them into service. Normally it is the job of FEMA to coordinate between the various local jurisdictions such as the OPSB and the City of New Orleans in this case. That is, under the rules of prior hurricane responses, FEMA would ask all local jurisdictions for a list of resources under their control. Then FEMA would have taken a request from Nagin for buses, relayed it to the Orleans Parish School Board or other local jurisdictions which had buses, and at that point the OPSB would have provided the buses to Nagin. That coordination did not happen here, but it is unclear whether Nagin ever made such a request prior to the hurricane and after the hurricane they were underwater and useless.

Now, keep in mind that mandatory evacuation order was issued on Sunday, before the storm. On a Sunday, reaching the licensed school bus drivers (and persuading them to drive evacuees) would have been  daunting task, even if anyone had tried. They couldn't just hand out the keys to anybody -- like sticks of gum. Liability issues would have prevented it. And exactly what use would school buses, with their narrow aisles and sardine-can seats, have been to nursing homes and hospitals? 

From your source again:
Roughly 150,000 people were not evacuated from the city. During the Hurricane Ivan evacuation 600,000 people failed to evacute the city.

Ivan hit almost exactly one year earlier. Looks to me like the evacuation effort for Katrina was four times more successful.

But Bush was supposed to know everything and shoulders all of the blame for what happened and he didn't even live in the state.  Now, just like this oil spill was not Obama's fault and he is doing what he can Katrina was not Bush's fault and he did what he could.  You can argue this 'til the cows come home and keep blaming Bush just like people can argue 'til the cows come home and Blame Obama for the oil spill but there is only so much a person can do and both have done what they thought needed done according to the information they were given.  Based on your logic on Katrine though the aftermath of this oil spill should rest on Obama's shoulders and it would be his fault.

[LOsborne]

But Bush was supposed to know everything and shoulders all of the blame for what happened and he didn't even live in the state.....  Based on your logic on Katrine though the aftermath of this oil spill should rest on Obama's shoulders and it would be his fault.

Strawman fallacy. Again. Nowhere in this conversation did I blame Bush for Katrina. You said Louisiana spent the levee money on some unspecified "special project." I pointed out they could not have.

You can attempt to misrepresent my point all you like. But anyone can page back through the thread and see the real development of the discussion.

The Big Lie strategy only works when those being addressed have no access to the record.

[me]

Strawman fallacy. Again. Nowhere in this conversation did I blame Bush for Katrina. You said Louisiana spent the levee money on some unspecified "special project." I pointed out they could not have.

You can attempt to misrepresent my point all you like. But anyone can page back through the thread and see the real development of the discussion.

The Big Lie strategy only works when those being addressed have no access to the record.

You may not but a lot of others do and, like I said, what happened is no more his fault than what is going on with the oil spill Obama's.  It's all politically driven BS and you know it. I only brought the whole thing up because of Troll's remark about Cheney.

[The Troll]

You may not but a lot of others do and, like I said, what happened is no more his fault than what is going on with the oil spill Obama's.  It's all politically driven BS and you know it. I only brought the whole thing up because of Troll's remark about Cheney.

  All of Obama oil mess started in the White House with oil men.  George 42, George W. and Dick Cheney.

  With all of the regulation being over looked by the Republican Oil Men, you see what we got.

  Just who did Dick Cheney have in the White House when all the oil men were there.  They were there to set us up for $4 gasoline and what you see to day.  Corporate greed.  I wish George W. would write a book, a all tell book.  Oh, I'm sorry, he can't hardly put two words together.

[me]

  All of Obama oil mess started in the White House with oil men.  George 42, George W. and Dick Cheney.

  With all of the regulation being over looked by the Republican Oil Men, you see what we got.

  Just who did Dick Cheney have in the White House when all the oil men were there.  They were there to set us up for $4 gasoline and what you see to day.  Corporate greed.  I wish George W. would write a book, a all tell book.  Oh, I'm sorry, he can't hardly put two words together.

[Henry Hawk]

Very well said ME!!....

[The Troll]

Very well said ME!!....

  This is the honest truth, you guys really crack me up.  It isn't funny what you guys say, but honestly I can't keep from laughing.  You twin can be funny at times.

The Troll 

[Henry Hawk]

That's right!! we will be here ALL week.... ...we are heading to Vegas next...

[LOsborne]

You may not but a lot of others do and, like I said, what happened is no more his fault than what is going on with the oil spill Obama's.  It's all politically driven BS and you know it. I only brought the whole thing up because of Troll's remark about Cheney.

I began this dialog by pointing out three separate falsehoods you were promulgating.

Yep he probably told the state to spend the money they were given to shore up the levy on that other project which they deemed more important ...

It is also a fact that they could have been evacuated but the mayor chose not to do so.

and this one

It is also a fact that Bush asked the governor if they needed help before it hit and she said they were fine. 

I gave you chapter and verse on multiple sources refuting these transparent lies.

Unable (or unwilling) to stay on point and debate with verifiable sources (heck, I used you OWN source to quash one of them,) you now want to make this conversation about Bush because "a lot of others do" and you only brought the Katrina fairy-tales up because the Troll made some remark about Cheney? Give me a break! I don't know what he said about Cheney, and I don't care. I want to know how trashing the Mayor and Governor of Louisiana for things they didn't do defends Cheney in any way?

Both Blanco and Nagin made plenty of mistakes you could have hopped up and down on, to convince people they were incompetent. You didn't choose those verifiable errors though. And even if you had, the statements would have been valueless as a defense of Cheney.

Now you want to bring in Bush. Why? What possible relevance could the former president have to defending Cheney, or to sorting out the fantasies you keep tossing around about things that happened during the Katrina horror? I don't understand what you are doing.

You like Bush and Cheney. Got it. But when you and I are having a conversation, could you please follow accepted rules of debate?

[followsthewolf]

That presupposes knowledge not previously established.