Onward Christian Soldiers! - Kansas abortion doctor killed.

[Freethinker]

Gryphon  ME -- have you been posting under the Enid/Woodward moderated section? I can't remember... Because Mageepet has a MYOB II thread where we stay off-topic and talk about whatever we want.

We would love to have some of your rain, but it keeps going around us save for a few sprinkles.

Back to "PaleHorse Rides Again... through the fantasies of his own mind."

[Palehorse]

Oh dear, I had thought the regularly scheduled topic was to call the new people a bunch of uncomprehending idiots.. I think it started going awry at the time I posted a link about another doctor coming to Kansas from Oklahoma to do 3rd trimester abortions.

Oh dear.... sounds like Palehorse grazed into the loco weed again.

Hey, you two started in on me, and since you are both new I gave you a few free passes before I engaged in your juvenile behavior.

Anybody who has posted around me knows this but for your edification I'll say it here.

With me you get what you give. Provide intelligent questions and information to back it and I will do the same. Give me shit, I'll give you diarrhea and force you to drink it.

And you have seen nothing. . . yet. . .

[Freethinker]

Sorry "me,"  -- I saw your avatar and thought you were Gryphon. Never ask a post-menopausal woman why these things happen. We don't know. 

[me]

Sorry "me,"  -- I saw your avatar and thought you were Gryphon. Never ask a post-menopausal woman why these things happen. We don't know. 

  I can relate to that post-menopausal thing believe me. 
I haven't been to that area yet but I just might venture that way at some point. 

[Freethinker]

Hey, you two started in on me, and since you are both new I gave you a few free passes before I engaged in your juvenile behavior.

Anybody who has posted around me knows this but for your edification I'll say it here.

With me you get what you give. Provide intelligent questions and information to back it and I will do the same. Give me shit, I'll give you diarrhea and force you to drink it.

And you have seen nothing. . . yet. . .

Such a tough one, aren't ya?  You started the name-calling yourself, and now get all whiny.

Mageepet and I are both well-educated, and our responses are sufficiently intelligent... Yours fall into the realm of fairy tales on the abortion issue, and that is a scientific fact.

You bring it on all you want, because I don't shrink at threats, filthy name-calling or threats of bodily harm. Something that you insist on doing with most of your posts.

Also, your Russian is quite inadequate, but then... who cares?

[pariann]

Doesnt it say that we are BORN to original sin, though? Ya gotta be born, right? I mean a little clump of cells can hardly sin.

It also says that God knew the babies in the womb.  I'm not so sure that it says 'born'.  I don't know the bible that well, I looked up passages regarding the topic. There are whole discussions with opinions about this particular topic.  Though I will not say the articles I read that led to discussion aren't biased.

[pariann]

This is not true in every state. In fact, Oregon and Florida just had bills introduced in their state houses attempting to address this question.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/06/senator_requests_bill_making_i.html

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/2008/03/bill-would-defi.html

Laws in other states (i.e. Texas, Pennsylvania) specifically exempt abortion.

I've not read further than this post yet....but I'll throw in two cents here.  Hawaii found a mother not guilty of any wrong doing...any criminal activity, when she smoked crack at least 3 days prior to the birth of her son, and on the morning of his birth.  He died two days later from meth complications (high doses in his system).  It was ruled that a pregnant woman cannot harm her unborn child because it is not a person until it is born. 
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Nov/30/ln/FP511300342.html

BUT there is a federal law in effect that makes it a crime to cause the death of an unborn child if you are anyone except the mother.   (Am I to understand these two states are introducing a bill to become a law going against the federal law? I thought federal trumps state.)

In reference to freethinkers comment that it's justified as a murder crime because the mother wanted the child...might want to check this out:

Gerardo Flores of Texas was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison after kicking his pregnant girlfriend repeatedly in the stomach to cause her to lose the couple's twins. The girlfriend, Erica Basoria, did not want the babies to be born and allowed Flores to kick her, but she was not charged with any wrongdoing by the state of Texas.

The previous paragraph comes from WND, but I double checked the story with what most should consider a legitimate news source and it says the same thing: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8UPM6IG1.html

I don't believe the criteria for causing the death of an unborn human being as murder crime has anything to do with whether the mother wanted the baby or not.

[pariann]

And you have seen nothing. . . yet. . .

Is it appropriate to acknowledge the core posters?  Because I think we have seen EVERYTHING. LOL

[Exterminator]

I remember it as being wet, dark, and really really noisy.  I'm thinking also that might be the reason for my claustrophobia because there wasn't a whole lot of room either.

Sounds like there was a lot of traffic.   

[LOsborne]

BUT there is a federal law in effect that makes it a crime to cause the death of an unborn child if you are anyone except the mother.   (Am I to understand these two states are introducing a bill to become a law going against the federal law? I thought federal trumps state.)

It looks that way. I don't know why anyone would be surprised at Florida wasting time on meaningless legislation, though. Just last year the Florida legislature attempted to pass a law banning truck nutz. SB1992

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article487210.ece

It failed.

[me]

Sounds like there was a lot of traffic.   

[Freethinker]

In reference to freethinkers comment that it's justified as a murder crime because the mother wanted the child...might want to check this out:

Gerardo Flores of Texas was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison after kicking his pregnant girlfriend repeatedly in the stomach to cause her to lose the couple's twins. The girlfriend, Erica Basoria, did not want the babies to be born and allowed Flores to kick her, but she was not charged with any wrongdoing by the state of Texas.

To be clear, though... I said those in favor of abortion "rationalized" that it was murder when the fetus is killed along with the mother, as part of the argument for charging the murderer with two crimes instead of one.

This is the type of argument I have witnessed by hardcore pro-choice folks.

There is also a sector of pro-choice that doesn't want the murderer charged for the 2nd crime, because they are afraid it will open up the door to reverse Roe v Wade.

As you can see by the Texas judgment, the hypocrisy reeks. Either killing those babies was illegal or it wasn't, and if the mother wanted them dead, too, she should have went to jail with the boyfriend.

[Henry Hawk]

As you can see by the Texas judgment, the hypocrisy reeks. Either killing those babies was illegal or it wasn't, and if the mother wanted them dead, too, she should have went to jail with the boyfriend.

I agree, she should be an accomplice to the crime....and tried as such.

[Exterminator]

Either killing those babies was illegal or it wasn't, and if the mother wanted them dead, too, she should have went to jail with the boyfriend.

Or gone.