This is exactly what we can expect from nationalized health care

[LOsborne]

You know why. They charge what the market will bear. Big burly insurance companies demand discounts, or they won't pay for treatment at that particular hospital. Self-insured people are the way the hospitals make up the difference, and pay for indigent care (like Rosarita giving birth to her anchor baby.)

Whatcha gonna do? Go to the competition? Oh, yeah, there isn't any competition.

[Gryphon]

it just further illustrates how broken our system is. We're all already paying for the uninsured. The problem is that too often the un-, under-, and self- insured either wait to seek care til a minor problem has become a big one. Or, conversely, you have people who turn up at the emergency room for a splinter.

[dan foster]

And you know that people are lying because............you can read minds? you are gifted or because if some one says something you don't agree with you just call them a liar? Your way to narcissistic for my taste. You are both arrogant liars.That is just my opinion. Which is worth every bit as you two buffoons.

Now, you said I called someone a liar, but I didn't.  Now, you say I am an arrogant liar; please produce a single statement by me that is a lie.  Just one.

[pariann]

You don't want her to show her proof of your arrogance? 

[mcgonser]

I am just going to start being like Ex: Deny, call everything anyone else says a lie, tell everyone what I think is the truth without knowing it if it bit me on the butt. Never prove or answer a question I don't want to. You guys have been letting him get away with that, so suck it up and get use to it. I am doing the same. 

[me]

Could get mighty interesting around here if I do the same huh?   

[Sandy Eggo]

And if he could actu

it just further illustrates how broken our system is. We're all already paying for the uninsured. The problem is that too often the un-, under-, and self- insured either wait to seek care til a minor problem has become a big one. Or, conversely, you have people who turn up at the emergency room for a splinter.

Not only that, but you have working people who can't afford insurance who only go to the emergency room because it's "care now, pay later".

As an example, the corporation where I previously worked offered health care coverage which was relatively inexpensive for me. However, to cover the children I would have had to pay over a 1/3 of my pay. I couldn't have afforded that. To add insult to injury, I made too much money to be eligible for the state funded children's health care plan. Not much more, but too much to been considered. I was fortunate, in that the owner of the company included my children in my healthcare coverage as a "perk". Not everyone received the same opportunity. I now work for a company, much larger than the previous employer and I have the same health plan, however it's a 1/3 of what I paid before and it includes both children. Obviously it's because having more employees who are able to participate causes the cost to decrease.

I think that's the concept with the national healthcare. I may have to pay a couple dollars and a few cents more for those who can't pay at all, but to think that people won't need to rely on emergency services to get needed healthcare, which should decrease overall costs and to know that people won't avoid seeking medical assistance until it become more serious/costly, and even more importantly, people won't avoid taking their children to the Dr. because of the cost...makes it very worth that extra few cents.

[Sandy Eggo]

Need I really comment here? 

Nope, point taken.

[Sandy Eggo]

My neighbor's brother-in-law's nephew's friend told him they didn't have showers in Canada.

Yeah, but didn't you get that information from his third cousin's other brother who lived next door to the trollop?

Try again!

[Sandy Eggo]

As a military retiree, my medical plan IS a gov't plan (TRICARE) and I have better options than any HMO or other employer provided Insurance plan.  I can go just about anywhere, without referrals in most cases.

Does every retiree retain TRICARE or is only available in absence of other coverage? or can it be used jointly with other insurance?

Also, I'm curious how VA hospitals fit in. Are those services primarily for those who have served in the military, but didn't retire and aren't eligible for continued TRICARE coverage?

[Gryphon]

MY father was just grumbling last night that the cost to cover his employees was now $1700 a MONTH (for a family plan). Four years running of double digit percentage increases. The cost to cover just the employee is now right at $800 a month. They pay 60 percent, and the employees pay 40, but he was wondering how his secretaries (a couple of whom are single moms) can even make it.

[Sandy Eggo]

It's funny when topics like this come up and immediately people start ranting about "freeloaders" while no one considers "the working poor". How do people who need every penny to simply survive get coverage? Preventative healthcare is completelt unaffordable, so by the time they are forced to go to the Dr. for something that has become serious and more costly to treat, which they can't pay for either, then what?

Our system is broken. People are afraid that national healthcare will cost them more and I'm not convinced that it will.

[Henry Hawk]

I'm just jumping in here....I have not read what has been posted recently...but the biggest concerns that Canada has from what I have read are the waiting times to see specialists and for diagnostic tests....... according to a study by the Fraser Institute, waiting times have increased from 13.1 weeks in 1999, to 17.7 weeks in 2003, to 17.9 in 2004. Long waits to undergo elective surgery have also become an issue in recent years, as have crowded emergency rooms in the country's largest cities.....(I am getting this information from a news letter I get every month....)

The problems with Socialized Health Care (i.e., trusting politicians and bureaucrats with your health care)
....an interesting source that backs up my thoughts....

This would more than likely be a problem that we would have to face...would it be worth it?....I don't know the solution, but I am NOT all excited about duplicating what they have.

[Henry Hawk]

[dan foster]

Does every retiree retain TRICARE or is only available in absence of other coverage? or can it be used jointly with other insurance?

Also, I'm curious how VA hospitals fit in. Are those services primarily for those who have served in the military, but didn't retire and aren't eligible for continued TRICARE coverage?

Retirees are offered a choice of;

TRICARE Standard (no cost) which covers about 80% of everything and can be used as a supplement to a primary insurance or can be supplemented with inexpensive secondary for no out of pocket, except a $4 copay on prescriptions until a family max is reached, then free.
This one was great until the Republicans (Warner, VA) required employers to stop offering the supplements to TRICARE for free to employees (much cheaper than employee sponsored primary care) because the big insurance companies were losing customers.

TRICARE Prime which has an annual fee, but no out of pocket and covers 100%.  No need for a supplement or for it to be used as one.

Only drawback to these; required to convert to Medicare at the proper age.  VA hospitals are there for all retirees and service connected/combat wounded veterans.  It can be used as a Tertiary for service disabled vets.