This is exactly what we can expect from nationalized health care

[dan foster]

I think that many of you are jumping the gun. The Faux rightwingdings have twisted the idea of the propsal. Wasn't the initial plan for healthcare coverage similar to what Federal employees have now? If so, it's my understanding they do have a choice. Maybe you should ask a federal employee to see how they like their health benefits.

As a military retiree, my medical plan IS a gov't plan (TRICARE) and I have better options than any HMO or other employer provided Insurance plan.  I can go just about anywhere, without referrals in most cases.

[mcgonser]

Yes Dan, I have retired military in my family too and they have tricare. It seems to be a good plan. I hope that if we get insurance from the gov it will be like that. Don't know that for sure though.

[dan foster]

Yes Dan, I have retired military in my family too and they have tricare. It seems to be a good plan. I hope that if we get insurance from the gov it will be like that. Don't know that for sure though.

All I know is that either since the gov't owns most of AIG and the banks, now, we can get not-for-profit health care where the cost is reduced to affordable for all.  Otherwise, I wish we would have let AIG, et al, fail so we could have done it without them in the way.  The financial groups (and all financial incentives) need to be removed from the system so that no one (no company) truly makes a single dollar of profit from the sickness and suffering of other human beings.  I think the workers in the system should be paid a good wage (including doctors), but when a hospital can charge $60,000 dollars a day for a bed, something is terribly wrong.

[me]

All I know is that either since the gov't owns most of AIG and the banks, now, we can get not-for-profit health care where the cost is reduced to affordable for all.  Otherwise, I wish we would have let AIG, et al, fail so we could have done it without them in the way.  The financial groups (and all financial incentives) need to be removed from the system so that no one (no company) truly makes a single dollar of profit from the sickness and suffering of other human beings.  I think the workers in the system should be paid a good wage (including doctors), but when a hospital can charge $60,000 dollars a day for a bed, something is terribly wrong.

Or $5000 for a 15 min cataract operation where you are in and out in less than 45min including the recovery room.   

[Exterminator]

If you had clicked around you would have seen thisIf this weren't already out for the public I would not have put it on a public forum.  Please refrain from calling me a liar in the future as I don't always want to divulge my sources of information because sometimes they don't belong on a public forum.

WTF are you talking about?  Where did I call you a liar?  Can you not read or is English your second language?  And by the way, I did click around and read that little blurb; what is it supposed to prove?  Like I said...it appears to be a nice little company.

Maybe it's different in different provinces I don't know I'm just speaking for the one he is from but I'm telling you Universal health care is not all it's being said to be.

Or maybe you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about?  The original point you tried to make was that under Canada's health care system, stem cell therapy was not available and on that point, you are either ignorant or a liar.  We have no way of knowing what the criteria was for his having been excluded but it could very well be that since he had been living and working in the U.S. since 1996 and wasn't treated until 2007, he wasn't eligible to use their health care system any more.  Ya think?

[Exterminator]

He calls everyone a liar...

Not true; I only call the stupid liars stupid liars.

[mcgonser]

No Ex: You call everyone a liar that disagrees with your opinion or has anything to say about it. You are the liar here. I am going to start calling you Nancy.

[Exterminator]

No Ex: You call everyone a liar that disagrees with your opinion or has anything to say about it.

Not true; I am more than willing to disagree with anyone on matters of opinion but when someone states something as fact and continues to disseminate that information even after it is proven false, they are liars, plain and simple.

You are the liar here.

Yeah, because I'm the dumbass who showed up here and presented myself as something I clearly am not?  That would be you.

I am going to start calling you Nancy.

Call me whatever you'd like but don't whine about your bruised meat-curtains when you get worse in return.

[Gryphon]

Or $5000 for a 15 min cataract operation where you are in and out in less than 45min including the recovery room.

such costs are not a basis of the time it takes. They are a product of the cost of the technology that allows a cataract operation to take 15 min.

[me]

WTF are you talking about?  Where did I call you a liar?  Can you not read or is English your second language?  And by the way, I did click around and read that little blurb; what is it supposed to prove?  Like I said...it appears to be a nice little company.

Maybe I took your comment wrong.  I took it as a snide remark that it was a little, (insignificant), company.  I took it as a put down which I didn't appreciate.  You may have meant it as a compliment but due to the way you post sometimes it is very easy to misread your words.  If you had left the word "little" out I wouldn't have thought so much about it.

Or maybe you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about?  The original point you tried to make was that under Canada's health care system, stem cell therapy was not available and on that point, you are either ignorant or a liar.  We have no way of knowing what the criteria was for his having been excluded but it could very well be that since he had been living and working in the U.S. since 1996 and wasn't treated until 2007, he wasn't eligible to use their health care system any more.  Ya think?

I said, "had the still been living there" he would not have been given the treatment because of his age.  The other example I used was a relative in her early 40's who neither drinks or smokes and she would not be here because had she gone to the emergency room in Canada she would not have been treated in a timely manner and would not have been able to have the bypass surgery as quickly.  This is from her own mouth not mine. 
Now if my two examples were talking about being glad they were in the States at the time their medical problems arose and I am using their own words why am I being ignorant or a liar?  My examples are not uninformed uneducated people and both are Canadians.  My nephew's wife has only lived in the States since they were married two years ago.
I have talked to too many people who have said "yes government ran health care is great but" to be in favor of it and I'm not just talking about Canada here.
This is being rushed through congress waaaaay too fast and we are already being taxed for something that isn't even in place yet which is not right. 

[me]

such costs are not a basis of the time it takes. They are a product of the cost of the technology that allows a cataract operation to take 15 min.

It's still ridiculous when you consider that this Dr. does those operations once a week and does anywhere from 5 to 15 people at a time plus the other Dr's who use the same rooms for the same operation.  The people who have insurance are charged even more which is not right either.  The charge might be a little lower now at this particular hospital because it has been bought out by another hospital which is, fortunately, a much better hospital.   

[Exterminator]

Maybe I took your comment wrong.  I took it as a snide remark that it was a little, (insignificant), company.  I took it as a put down which I didn't appreciate.  You may have meant it as a compliment but due to the way you post sometimes it is very easy to misread your words.  If you had left the word "little" out I wouldn't have thought so much about it.

Little as in small as in not a conglomerate.  It is a small company making a specialized line of products of apparently high quality judging from the accolades they've received.  I would liken it to Cross Audio in Madison County if you were aware of them when Jim was still around.

I said, "had the still been living there" he would not have been given the treatment because of his age.

Pure conjecture.  He did not live in Canada at the time, ergo, was not refused treatment.  As far as anyone knows, the criteria for that procedure may have changed dramatically between the time he left there over a decade prior and when he needed treatment.  Certainly, major advances were made in the field during that time.

The other example I used was a relative in her early 40's who neither drinks or smokes and she would not be here because had she gone to the emergency room in Canada she would not have been treated in a timely manner and would not have been able to have the bypass surgery as quickly.  This is from her own mouth not mine. 

Again, conjecture.  Had she gone to an emergency room in Canada and not been treated in a timely manner and had died as a result, you might have a point but none of those things happened so her assertion is without merit.

Now if my two examples were talking about being glad they were in the States at the time their medical problems arose and I am using their own words why am I being ignorant or a liar?

I would say ignorant as you are relying on anecdotal evidence rather than empirical data.  If you would like to rely on empirical data, the World Health Organizations rankings of the world's health care systems is a logical place to start.  Note that the U.S. ranked 37 and Canada 30.  Also note how well virtually every country in Europe, all of whom have universal health care of one ilk or another, did.  Virtually all of them ranked higher than we did.

[pariann]

I need a shower.



Not the random comments thread?  Sorry. LOL

[Exterminator]

I need a shower.

I meant to talk to you about that.   

[Gryphon]

It's still ridiculous when you consider that this Dr. does those operations once a week and does anywhere from 5 to 15 people at a time plus the other Dr's who use the same rooms for the same operation.  The people who have insurance are charged even more which is not right either.  The charge might be a little lower now at this particular hospital because it has been bought out by another hospital which is, fortunately, a much better hospital.

Unless you know the cost of the equipment involved, the cost of its upkeep, and all related costs, I dont see how you can say its ridiculous.

Though I agree with you on different costs for different people. I got a statement from the hospital a few years back for some minor surgery. The bill was over $14,000 all told. When the insurance paid, they agreed to take about half that as payment in full. Had I been uninsured, would I have been left footing the entire 14k bill?