This is exactly what we can expect from nationalized health care

[dan foster]

No Ex: You call everyone a liar that disagrees with your opinion or has anything to say about it. You are the liar here. I am going to start calling you Nancy.

Sorry, but Ex is correct.  I have only seen Ex call someone lying, a liar.  Just because you disagree with Ex, or Ex with you doesn't mean Ex is lying. 

[dan foster]

The same reason Dan said this:

The $60K/night was based on an ICU bill.  There wasn't anything in the ICU that was anymore of a technological advance over any other hospital room, unless you want to count the video monitors so fewer nurses/nurses aids were around to actually check on the patient.  The price is jacked up just because it has ICU on it.  It is a scam.  It was a new hospital.  They had about 5 of 20 units occupied.  I think they just divided the total bed potential income among the actual patients.  Again, it is about profit. 

[me]

Let's see, 5min in prep, 10min in the surgery room, 20min in recovery in which time he was seen by the nurses the dr brought with him, no recovery room nurses were used, a little over $5k.  That times the other 15 patients the dr performed cataract surgery on that day plus whatever he paid to use the room.  You don't think that's a little steep considering we got a discounted rate since we don't have insurance.  How much are they charging if you have insurance?   The thing is I know this hospital and given any other choice would not have gone there but that is the only one available to the eye surgeon because it is the only one in town since they kept others out for years.  They were bought out by a very reputable hospital shortly after hubby had his surgery and I'm sure things will improve for the city health care wise and for that I am glad. 

[mcgonser]

Sorry, but Ex is correct.  I have only seen Ex call someone lying, a liar.  Just because you disagree with Ex, or Ex with you doesn't mean Ex is lying.

And you know that people are lying because............you can read minds? you are gifted or because if some one says something you don't agree with you just call them a liar? Your way to narcissistic for my taste. You are both arrogant liars.That is just my opinion. Which is worth every bit as you two buffoons.

[me]

The thing is they don't know how to discuss without name calling and trying to intimidate.  Guess they think calling people liars helps make their point.  If you have a different opinion you're lying or stupid.  If you have different data or facts yours are always wrong and theirs is right no matter what source they or you use.  They have to be right all the time to boost their ego's. 

Neither they nor I know for sure how this nationalized health care thing is going to work out both of us are only offering opinions of what we think.  What they don't realize is I don't take them anymore seriously than they take me I just have more class than to call them liars and dumb asses. 

Somehow they haven't figured out that the more they do stuff like that the more it makes them look foolish and like they really have no clue. 

[pariann]

I think it just makes you all look stubborn.  Sometimes, opinions aren't fact driven.  Believing something whole heartedly doesn't make someone a liar, though it may be that they are ignorant.  I'm not pointing any fingers in any direction.  Just an overall observation.

I think that anything can be abused to the point that it begins to lack benefit.  And those things that can be good for everyone, when opposed by a large group because of ignorance, can turn sour. Take away the profit, create total equality for everyone, and just maybe, it won't be as bad as everyone who opposes it thinks it will be. 

I just hope if it goes nationalized, dental is part of it, and you get more than a $600 a year limit. I'm still waiting on my dental work because I just don't have the out of pocket cash to have teeth pulled, dentures made, and then denture maintenance for the rest of my life. I'd prefer to pay 10 to 20% than spend $600 a year on office visits, antibiotic and pain prescriptions. (okay that went into left field, but people who get medicaid might know what I mean, I have had it, but never used it.  Went to the clinic and paid cash instead)

[me]

My point is they are trying to rush it through too quickly without even planning where the money is going to come from to fund it and have no idea how they are going to run it.  It's just pass it and then work out the details.  They need to be concentrating on this bail out mess and get it straightened out before they get us into debt even further.  If they would slow down and maybe pass it a bit at a time that would make more sense.  They are even wanting to insure people who can afford insurance and that's insane. Start out with insuring people who can't afford it and leave the rest privatized.  Congress is suddenly wanting to control every aspect of our lives and I don't see that as a good thing at all. 

[Exterminator]

And you know that people are lying because............you can read minds?  you are gifted or because if some one says something you don't agree with you just call them a liar?

Because it's obvious.  If there were no clouds in the sky and you said it was cloudy, you'd be lying.

Your way to narcissistic for my taste.

Case in point: you claim to be educated but can't distinguish between "your" and "you're".

That is just my opinion. Which is worth every bit as you two buffoons.

Perhaps to you but not to the rest of the world.

[Exterminator]

My point is they are trying to rush it through too quickly without even planning where the money is going to come from to fund it and have no idea how they are going to run it.

How in the hell could you possibly know this?  For all we know, this has been studied for years and they've gotten to the point where they are pretty sure they understand the issues, costs, etc. to the extent that they are reasonably certain they can implement it successfully.  It isn't as though Obama thought of this two weeks ago or that there aren't many successful models from which to pick and choose best practices.

[LOsborne]

I think it just makes you all look stubborn.  Sometimes, opinions aren't fact driven.  Believing something whole heartedly doesn't make someone a liar, though it may be that they are ignorant.  I'm not pointing any fingers in any direction.  Just an overall observation.

I think that anything can be abused to the point that it begins to lack benefit.  And those things that can be good for everyone, when opposed by a large group because of ignorance, can turn sour. Take away the profit, create total equality for everyone, and just maybe, it won't be as bad as everyone who opposes it thinks it will be.

Nicely put, Pariann. I told you before, I like the way you think.

Once attacks become directed at the speaker (typist in this case) rather than the point, the discussion is over. Hurling insults does nothing but convince the attackee that s/he was right all along. Unless the slam-fest is part of the game, of course, and then it can be lots of fun. As a rule, though, some variety in the insults is necessary to ward off boredom.

A couple of pages back someone asked if the hospital's price to the insurance company is different from the price to those who pay privately. Yes, it is. A few years ago HSA's (that's Health Savings Accounts for those of you who aren't fluent in HR, you lucky dogs) were the hot new benefit. Employees could put money into an HSA to pay for medical expenses. The deposits were pre-tax, so the employees paid tax on a smaller part of their take-home pay. YYAYYYY!!! However, when employees paid hospital bills with the money, they discovered to their dismay that they were charged up to 50% more for a procedure than they had been charged when turning it over to insurance. The hospital's explanation was that the insurance price included a negotiated discount, and the hospital did not discount bills for private-pay patients. We told all employees to close their HSA's and turn everything in to insurance, whether the bill would qualify or not. At least they would get the negotiated price. Now that's a racket!

[pariann]

My point is they are trying to rush it through too quickly without even planning where the money is going to come from to fund it and have no idea how they are going to run it.  It's just pass it and then work out the details.  They need to be concentrating on this bail out mess and get it straightened out before they get us into debt even further.  If they would slow down and maybe pass it a bit at a time that would make more sense.  They are even wanting to insure people who can afford insurance and that's insane. Start out with insuring people who can't afford it and leave the rest privatized.  Congress is suddenly wanting to control every aspect of our lives and I don't see that as a good thing at all. 

It would seem to me that Nationalized Health would be for everyone, even those that can afford to pay for insurance.  If there were no insurance, just national, then optional health (or optional medical procedures) should be paid for by those that can afford it.   In other words, there are cosmetic surgeries that insurance will cover, but if they are not life threatening then pay for it yourself.  I can't sit and quote what all constitutes necessary, and I don't think the government can either.  But an educated medical panel, without expectation of great profits, could.

That's what should be going on.  Panels or committee's of the experts should be working out the details of these potential programs and then whoever votes on them should have to attend workshops so that they understand what is and isn't necessary for these programs to succeed before voting.  So yes, I agree that some of these things should be put into place, or considered at a slower pace.  BUT if there are these panels made up of experts in the field related to the bailouts, health care, blah blah blah spending, they can be worked on concurrently instead of consecutively.  Maybe??

[Exterminator]

Once attacks become directed at the speaker (typist in this case) rather than the point, the discussion is over. Hurling insults does nothing but convince the attackee that s/he was right all along. Unless the slam-fest is part of the game, of course, and then it can be lots of fun. As a rule, though, some variety in the insults is necessary to ward off boredom.

Whatever, poopy-head.   

A couple of pages back someone asked if the hospital's price to the insurance company is different from the price to those who pay privately. Yes, it is. A few years ago HSA's (that's Health Savings Accounts for those of you who aren't fluent in HR, you lucky dogs) were the hot new benefit. Employees could put money into an HSA to pay for medical expenses. The deposits were pre-tax, so the employees paid tax on a smaller part of their take-home pay. YYAYYYY!!! However, when employees paid hospital bills with the money, they discovered to their dismay that they were charged up to 50% more for a procedure than they had been charged when turning it over to insurance. The hospital's explanation was that the insurance price included a negotiated discount, and the hospital did not discount bills for private-pay patients. We told all employees to close their HSA's and turn everything in to insurance, whether the bill would qualify or not. At least they would get the negotiated price. Now that's a racket!

Huh?  I've always seen these referred to as flexible spending accounts (FSA) and mine works by reimbursing any out-of-pocket expenses I've had to pay.  The source of the funds is transparent to the provider.

[Bo D]

you two buffoons.

they don't know how to discuss without name calling

Need I really comment here? 

[LOsborne]

Whatever, poopy-head.  

Good one. I last heard that epithet when my two girls were hurling it at each other last Christmas. They are 22 and 24. And they meant it! Ahhh .... memories are made of this. You get points for the creative insult, Ex. And I still adore you. Camel-breath.

Huh?  I've always seen these referred to as flexible spending accounts (FSA) and mine works by reimbursing any out-of-pocket expenses I've had to pay.  The source of the funds is transparent to the provider.

FSA's are the generic category of all pre-tax savings accounts. You can have them for other things than medical expenses -- like child care, and deductible transportation costs. With the HSA's, the bills didn't go to an insurance company first, so the employees paying for medical costs with the account didn't get the negotiated price.

[Gryphon]

to the topic above, I just got a statement from my insurance company. a $1750 bill for the CT scan I mentioned earlier. The insurance price? $620. Whats up with that? Why isnt it just one price for everyone?