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How far do we go to keep America safe?...

Started by Henry Hawk, April 24, 2009, 08:44:59 AM

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Exterminator

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 24, 2009, 08:44:59 AM
Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....THAT is gone now.

Would you serve in your country's military...oh, that's right, you didn't.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Exterminator

Quote from: LOsborne on April 24, 2009, 06:47:22 PM
Now, before you go telling me about how they deserve it, because they beheaded people, I must point out I don't believe the beheading netted any information useful to their cause -- especially after the fact! And as a purported Christian, I am shocked that you even suggest sinking to their level.

Can you say hypocrite?

QuotePersonally, if you fed me brussel sprouts...

Don't be doggin' brussel sprouts; they're yummy!
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Henry Hawk

Quote from: Exterminator on April 27, 2009, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 24, 2009, 08:44:59 AM
Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....THAT is gone now.

Would you serve in your country's military...oh, that's right, you didn't.

what is your point?........my SON is serving....simply because I did not has NO bearing on my question.........Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Exterminator

When torture is used to protect the United States, the country's greatest virtue is destroyed by its own citizenry.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Exterminator

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 27, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
what is your point?........my SON is serving....simply because I did not has NO bearing on my question.........Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....

My point is that the country's security wasn't convenient for you when you were younger so why is it now?
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Bo D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403552.html

OVER THE past two weeks, the world has been inundated with specifics about the abuse of terrorism suspects during the Bush administration: repeated episodes of waterboarding, snarling dogs, forced nudity, severe sleep deprivation, extended confinement in small, dark boxes.

Yet it is clear from a recently released and well-documented report by the Senate Armed Services Committee that such abuses were not committed by rogue service members or CIA agents who took matters into their own hands. The extreme interrogation methods were, according to the report, sought out and authorized by administration officials at the highest levels, including then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.

-- Maj. Carrie Ricci and Maj. Nathan Hoepner of the Army - "We need to take a deep breath and remember who we are . . . . We are American soldiers, heirs of a long tradition of staying on the high ground. We need to stay there."

-- Navy Capt. Daniel Donovan "I fail to see how anyone can reasonably say that employing such techniques against those in our custody is worthy of the United States, no matter how much we may need the information."

-- Air Force Col. Steven Kleinman, who intervened to stop an interrogation in which a detainee was subjected to prolonged kneeling and was slapped after answering every question.

-- Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Couch, a military prosecutor who refused to participate in cases after learning about detainee abuse.

Time and time again, civilians and political leaders pressed service members to use tougher, harsher and in some instances almost certainly illegal methods. Time and time again, the men and women in uniform -- those who put their lives on the line for this country -- were the ones who pushed back. It's a shame that so many of the civilians in the Bush administration failed to heed their advice.



"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."  Carl Sagan

Henry Hawk

Quote from: Exterminator on April 27, 2009, 09:30:59 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 27, 2009, 09:26:20 AM
what is your point?........my SON is serving....simply because I did not has NO bearing on my question.........Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....

My point is that the country's security wasn't convenient for you when you were younger so why is it now?

it was peace time when I was younger....our military was strong....and, in hindsite, I wish I would have joined....I listened to my parents, who thought getting a job and going to school was a better way for me.

now...Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Exterminator

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 27, 2009, 10:02:01 AM
now...Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....

No but I would waterboard you and worse to protect the integrity of the country and Constitution that I swore to uphold.

Americans do not torture.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Bo D

Quote from: Exterminator on April 27, 2009, 10:09:17 AM
Americans do not torture.

Which is what our own military is saying in the Senate Armed Services Committee report.

It bears repeating ....

"We are American soldiers, heirs of a long tradition of staying on the high ground. We need to stay there."


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."  Carl Sagan

mcgonser

We do not need to consider what other countries do or don't do. We need to do what is best for our security and welfare period. Look at these countries history and you see genoside of religions or races, torture, terrorism, piracy,imprisonment,etc for what ever the gov. wants. I will take American ways any day.

I noticed that you did not list Nancy Pelosi and her gang that signed off on this to begin with and now lying about it.

Would I use water boarding to get info for security of Americans, Yes!

There has been worse done thru out time and we ignored it then. You are so quick to critisize the US but not others for their behavior. Interesting! So it is ok whatever they do but not us. If we were going by their standards we would be doing alot worse. Think about it!
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!

Exterminator

Quote from: Bo D on April 27, 2009, 10:13:56 AM
Which is what our own military is saying in the Senate Armed Services Committee report.

It bears repeating ....

"We are American soldiers, heirs of a long tradition of staying on the high ground. We need to stay there."

Perhaps had Henry not listened to his parents and actually served his country, he would better understand how offensive this is to those us have and did so honorably.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Exterminator

Quote from: mcgonser on April 27, 2009, 10:14:42 AM
Would I use water boarding to get info for security of Americans, Yes!

Of course you would because when you start from a position of no character, ethics or integrity, you have nothing to lose.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Henry Hawk

Quote from: Exterminator on April 27, 2009, 10:09:17 AM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 27, 2009, 10:02:01 AM
now...Would you waterboard a terrorist to save thousands of American lives?.....

No but I would waterboard you and worse to protect the integrity of the country and Constitution that I swore to uphold.

Americans do not torture.

are you not an a American?.....you would torture those of us, who have NOT forgotten that there are people out there who WILL fly a plane into a building to KILL Americans...

are you that naive to think our military has NEVER used torture of the course of history?

I think we ARE taking the High Ground when it comes to techniques like waterboarding....and our Military's number one job is keeping America safe....and do think it should be limited and used only in desperate measures on those who we are certain to have information about what we reasonably believe is an imminent threat to our security....
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Bo D

Quote from: mcgonser on April 27, 2009, 10:14:42 AM
I will take American ways any day.

And THIS is the American way!


"We are American soldiers, heirs of a long tradition of staying on the high ground. We need to stay there."
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."  Carl Sagan

Exterminator

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 27, 2009, 10:34:00 AM
...what we reasonably believe is an imminent threat to our security....

The only imminent threat to our security is people like you who obviously don't have a clue what this country stands for.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.