ACLU..

[Henry Hawk]

I do. I've had some historic successes in getting Henry to see things like this. . . Only thing keeping me trying to be honest about it. But once he makes statements like "nothing is going to sway me on this" I can pretty much throw in the towel. . . which I am now doing. . .

Thanks 

you have had SOME success in the past on a few issues....and I have EVEN given SOME credit to the ACLU today....but, as a whole, I think they are doing more bad than good.

with THAT said....I'm picking up the towel....and waving it....

[Palehorse]

so our forefathers just got it wrong?....when THEY endorsed many, many religous beliefs?....I clearly believe, these guys had NO intention of what is going on today, with God being TRASHED the way He is...like it or not guys...and this IS a fact.....our forefathers revered the Bible and God..

I'm not saying at all...that this country was designed to be Christian Nation....but it WAS designed by a Nation of Christians...or at the least men who valued the Bible and their Creator...

I think, a few of you need to look in the mirror before they chastise others...

No. . . it was NOT founded on Christianity but the ideal of religious freedom. Any religion or the individual choice of NO religion.

Secondly, the FF's clearly state the need for separation of church and state. So what part of this is unclear to you?

You have enough to fully comprehend my position. I reject yours as unfounded, unsupported, and directly against that which our nation was founded upon.

Religion has no place in government. Government has no place in religion.

And while we're at it I think their tax exempt status is a crock of crap and should be removed tomorrow morning for all of them!

[Henry Hawk]

No. . . it was NOT founded on Christianity but the ideal of religious freedom. Any religion or the individual choice of NO religion.

Secondly, the FF's clearly state the need for separation of church and state. So what part of this is unclear to you?

You have enough to fully comprehend my position. I reject yours as unfounded, unsupported, and directly against that which our nation was founded upon.

Religion has no place in government. Government has no place in religion.

And while we're at it I think their tax exempt status is a crock of crap and should be removed tomorrow morning for all of them!

you have enough to fully comprehend my position too...but you WON'T accept my VERY supported position....

you are saying our forefathers was wrong in endorsing religon like they did...in the posts that I had earlier attached?
because they CLEARLY did....

read it again....
these guys felt the Bible WAS/IS important...
the Bible in school was/is important...
giving thanks to GOD was/is important....
public worship was/is important....
Divine service be performed for our Military was/is important...
appropriating money for missionaries was/is important....
that congress open with prayer was/is important...



I will attach this again, to make it easy for you to read....

Why did the Continental Congress in 1782, give money to the mass printing and distribution of the Bible...

In September 1789, the House of Representatives authorized the first official Thanksgiving. The resolution they passed called for "a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God....

in 1802, Congress framed an "enabling act" which required that Ohio form its state government in a manner "not repugnant to the Northwest Ordinance." As a result, Ohio's constitution declared:

Religion, morality, and knowledge, being essentially necessary to the good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of instruction shall forever be encouraged by legislative provision.

in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

1795 during construction of the Capitol, a practice was instituted whereby `public worship is now regularly administered at the Capitol, every Sunday morning, at 11 o'clock'...

in 1800, Congress enacted naval regulations requiring that Divine service be performed twice every day aboard `all ships and vessels in the navy,' with a sermon preached each Sunday...

Whereas throughout the American Founding, Congress frequently appropriated money for missionaries and for religious instruction, a practice that Congress repeated for decades after the passage of the Constitution and the First Amendment;

Whereas the first act of America's first Congress in 1774 was to ask a minister to open with prayer and to lead Congress in the reading of 4 chapters of the Bible

Whereas the Liberty Bell was named for the Biblical inscription from Leviticus 25:10 emblazoned around it: `Proclaim liberty throughout the land, to all the inhabitants thereof'

[Palehorse]

you have enough to fully comprehend my position too...but you WON'T accept my VERY supported position....

you are saying our forefathers was wrong in endorsing religon like they did...in the posts that I had earlier attached?
because they CLEARLY did....

read it again....
these guys felt the Bible WAS/IS important...
the Bible in school was/is important...
giving thanks to GOD was/is important....
public worship was/is important....
Divine service be performed for our Military was/is important...
appropriating money for missionaries was/is important....
that congress open with prayer was/is important...



I will attach this again, to make it easy for you to read....

Why did the Continental Congress in 1782, give money to the mass printing and distribution of the Bible...

In September 1789, the House of Representatives authorized the first official Thanksgiving. The resolution they passed called for "a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God....

in 1802, Congress framed an "enabling act" which required that Ohio form its state government in a manner "not repugnant to the Northwest Ordinance." As a result, Ohio's constitution declared:

Religion, morality, and knowledge, being essentially necessary to the good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of instruction shall forever be encouraged by legislative provision.

in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

1795 during construction of the Capitol, a practice was instituted whereby `public worship is now regularly administered at the Capitol, every Sunday morning, at 11 o'clock'...

in 1800, Congress enacted naval regulations requiring that Divine service be performed twice every day aboard `all ships and vessels in the navy,' with a sermon preached each Sunday...

Whereas throughout the American Founding, Congress frequently appropriated money for missionaries and for religious instruction, a practice that Congress repeated for decades after the passage of the Constitution and the First Amendment;

Whereas the first act of America's first Congress in 1774 was to ask a minister to open with prayer and to lead Congress in the reading of 4 chapters of the Bible

Whereas the Liberty Bell was named for the Biblical inscription from Leviticus 25:10 emblazoned around it: `Proclaim liberty throughout the land, to all the inhabitants thereof'

Where's the beef? Prove it!

I'm done until you can provide proof that doesn't come from some slanted agenda driven source.

[LOsborne]

Y'all get totally bent out of shape over this religion hoopla. Coupla points here:

1. Christianity is not the most popular religion in the world.

2. Christianity itself is so divided into non-harmonious sects and schools of thought (tongue in cheek on the word "thought") that those who believe they are going to heaven expect it to be sparsely populated.

So, as it presents itself to me, organized religion is not a unifying factor, but a divisive one. Why not believe what you please, and grant the same courtesy to everyone else? In the only words from Karl Marx that most people know, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Personally I have always preferred my opiates in tangible form.

That said, I still hold my bi-weekly prayer breakfasts for every god who is pleased to attend. But ya wanna watch where you put the pancake syrup when Loki and Coyote are feeling frisky.

Meanwhile, I will look to the ACLU to safeguard my constitutionally granted (not  god-given) rights in this go-round.

[Palehorse]

Y'all get totally bent out of shape over this religion hoopla. Coupla points here:

Spend enough time here and they'll get around to you too eventually. Just remember, I told you so. . .

1. Christianity is not the most popular religion in the world.

Rot roh. . . thems fighten words to the sheeple! 

2. Christianity itself is so divided into non-harmonious sects and schools of thought (tongue in cheek on the word "thought") that those who believe they are going to heaven expect it to be sparsely populated.

Exactly. However in my case it isn't just the xtians I have a problem with but all organized religions.

You can bone up on my position here: http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13389.0
A work in progress and a bit wordy though. . .

So, as it presents itself to me, organized religion is not a unifying factor, but a divisive one. Why not believe what you please, and grant the same courtesy to everyone else? In the only words from Karl Marx that most people know, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Personally I have always preferred my opiates in tangible form.

Agreed. . . and I'm certainly more than willing to live and let live; except when it is jammed down my throat. . . I take exception to that.

That said, I still hold my bi-weekly prayer breakfasts for every god who is pleased to attend. But ya wanna watch where you put the pancake syrup when Loki and Coyote are feeling frisky.

How's that working for yah? 

Meanwhile, I will look to the ACLU to safeguard my constitutionally granted (not  god-given) rights in this go-round.

Rot roh. . . more fighten words. . . 

[LOsborne]

How's that working for yah? 

Not bad. As a rule they bring their own sacramental comestibles. And beverages. And inhalants. (Woo-hoo!)

[Locutus]

Not bad. As a rule they bring their own sacramental comestibles. And beverages. And inhalants. (Woo-hoo!)

And hopefully they bring money for the offering plate! 

[LOsborne]

You can bone up on my position here:

Took me a little while to page back to the meat. Damned well told, sir. (Am I allowed to say "damned" here?)

[LOsborne]

And hopefully they bring money for the offering plate! 

I have taken offense. My ecumenical prayer breakfasts are not a "for profit" enterprise. We don't even sell the leftovers. As a rule, there aren't many.

[Locutus]

[Henry Hawk]

Where's the beef? Prove it!

I'm done until you can provide proof that doesn't come from some slanted agenda driven source.

You want me to PROVE that the Continental Congress in 1782, gave money to the mass printing and distribution of the Bibles?...

That congress and President Washington requested.... "a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God"

Just go here ....

Is THIS enough proof?...The Thomas - Library of Congress is NOT a slanted agenda driven source....

my point is, all this happened during our forefathers tenure...but by God, the ACLU is fixed on the military NOT supporting a Boy Scouts of America event!...THAT is a bunch of crap! and going TOO far....THAT is what I am driving at.

[mcgonser]

Henry, I wasn't aware that we had the burden of proof on our side. This is an opinion thread, right? Mostly it does not matter who or what you use for facts they will put it down and you for using it. I will make my point and then move on, they get toooo much fun  in arguing. In Oklahoma we would say that they are so contrary they would argue with a fence post swaying in the wind. LOL

[Henry Hawk]

Secondly, the FF's clearly state the need for separation of church and state. So what part of this is unclear to you?

Show me where THEY clearly state.....the need for separation of church and state?...It's NOT in the Constitution....

[Exterminator]

Oh for christ's sake, if you can't understand the intent of the language of the Constitution (and it was well elaborated on afterward by the signers so that even dimwits like you couldn't get it wrong) then you're a buffoon.  If religion is such a part of that document, why isn't your god and the baby geebuz mentioned anywhere in it even once?