ACLU..

[Henry Hawk]

In 1991, the ACLU Foundation of Southern California successfully brought suit to reinstate the twin boys, then 9 years old, after they were dismissed from Scouting for refusing to take an oath to God. The boys, who do not consider themselves to be atheists, explain that they do not understand what the word God means to them and thus do not feel comfortable taking an oath. After a trial in 1992, the Superior Court of Orange County held that the Orange County Council had discriminated against the boys on the basis of their religious beliefs in violation of California's civil rights statute, known as the Unruh Act.
http://www.aclu-sc.org/releases/view/100083

Nowhere within the ACLU database is there any case referring to them undertaking action(s) against the Pnetagon for sponsorship of Scouting. . . The closest thing I could find was the case above relating to twin boys being booted because they refused to say the word "God" because they did not understand what it meant. And that was against the Scouts for discrimination. Just one of several.

If you have a link to the information documenting the case please post it. I'd like to know what you're talking about. I am suspecting you've been fed bad information.

The Pentagon issued its message to military bases as part of a legal settlement with the ACLU

[Palehorse]

. . .When the framers of the Constitution put in to keep state and church separate they meant to keep the government out of the church. But all non believers like to say that it is to keep church out of government. They came from countries that had been ruled by monarchs that  ran their Church's before. This was something that was very precious to them. Otherwise they would not of been so prevalent with Gods name and prayer in their dealings. They wanted the freedom to express their beliefs without being tortured, jailed or killed. They made their wished known, it has just been subverted through out time.

Tell me where you went to school because whomever taught you history needs to be jailed! Are you dyslexic or something, because you've got it totally wrong!

[Palehorse]

The Pentagon issued its message to military bases as part of a legal settlement with the ACLU

Sweet baby jeebus hangin on da cross! Do you not see the slant in that source Hank? Come on! If you're going to be swayed by such tripe I give up. . . You are beyond help!

[Henry Hawk]

Sweet baby jeebus hangin on da cross! Do you not see the slant in that source Hank? Come on! If you're going to be swayed by such tripe I give up. . . You are beyond help!

Okay, then  here..just google it..there are several links that confirms what I am saying.

[Henry Hawk]

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Eterminator made this statement: I know you hate the Constitution but which part of the government not sponsoring particular religious beliefs do you have difficulty understanding?

I think this is a valid point to bring up that is being igored....

Let me ask you this...

Why did the Continental Congress in 1782, give money to the mass printing and distribution of the Bible...

In September 1789, the House of Representatives authorized the first official Thanksgiving. The resolution they passed called for "a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God....

in 1802, Congress framed an "enabling act" which required that Ohio form its state government in a manner "not repugnant to the Northwest Ordinance." As a result, Ohio's constitution declared:

Religion, morality, and knowledge, being essentially necessary to the good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of instruction shall forever be encouraged by legislative provision.

in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

1795 during construction of the Capitol, a practice was instituted whereby `public worship is now regularly administered at the Capitol, every Sunday morning, at 11 o'clock'...

in 1800, Congress enacted naval regulations requiring that Divine service be performed twice every day aboard `all ships and vessels in the navy,' with a sermon preached each Sunday...

the bottom line is...did our forefathers not understand...or does the ACLU just understand it better than the guys who WROTE the Constitution? 

and I got more:

Whereas throughout the American Founding, Congress frequently appropriated money for missionaries and for religious instruction, a practice that Congress repeated for decades after the passage of the Constitution and the First Amendment;

Whereas the first act of America's first Congress in 1774 was to ask a minister to open with prayer and to lead Congress in the reading of 4 chapters of the Bible

Whereas the Liberty Bell was named for the Biblical inscription from Leviticus 25:10 emblazoned around it: `Proclaim liberty throughout the land, to all the inhabitants thereof'

THIS IS CONGRESS SPONSERING RELIGIOUS BELIEFS...

[Palehorse]

From the ruling and official communication:

"If our Constitution's promise of religious liberty is to be a reality, the government should not be administering religious oaths or discriminating based upon religious beliefs," said Adam Schwartz of the ACLU of Illinois. "This agreement removes the Pentagon from direct sponsorship of Scout troops that engage in religious discrimination."

Previously, Defense Department units held charters to lead hundreds of Boy Scout troops and Cub Scout packs, which exclude youths who do not believe in God. Additionally, the Boy Scouts of America requires troop and pack leaders, in this case government employees, to compel youth to swear an oath of duty to God. The ACLU of Illinois charged that the Boy Scouts' policy violates the religious liberty of youth who wish to participate but do not wish to swear a religious oath, and that direct government sponsorship of such a program is religious discrimination.

. . .The Boy Scouts will still also have access to any military facilities that are currently made available to other non-governmental organizations.

"It is critical that the Pentagon send this very clear signal to its units across the globe to ensure that government officials are not engaged in religious discrimination in their official capacity,". . .

http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/16382prs20041115.html

"The right to practice religion, or no religion at all, is among the most fundamental of the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. The ACLU works to ensure that this essential freedom is protected by keeping the government out of religion."


Clearly this action was undertaken to uphold the basic tenants of our Constitution and rights, yet inflammatory articles such as the one you supplied serve only to undermine the very fabric of our nation and divide us.

The BSA has a clear and documented history of discrimination against boys that are of religions other than Christianity. They repeatedly have refused participation and membership to those individuals that maintain beliefs that are outside of traditional Christian beliefs, IE Muslim, etc., and this cannot be endorsed by government lest it be perceived as support for a particular religion.

[Henry Hawk]

sure there is tripe...on BOTH sides....

the bottom line is...it is an attack on the Boy Scouts of America.....again...I just find that crossing the line.....

I'm not being swayed by anybody but what I CLEARLY see....

[Palehorse]

Yikes. Tunnel vision. You are being blinded by religious fervor and conditioning.

I find it strange that one who so fervently supports and frequently quotes the Constitution and our founding fathers is so strenuously arguing against them in this situation.

Clearly, and I've provided documentation and sources to support this, the ACLU is nothing less than an advocate for the very same things you have often declared such strong support for; the Constitution and individual rights.

Only due to the cases wherein this support has engaged them with your chosen religion have you now changed direction.

We disagree. . . but I am right.

[Exterminator]

Hawk: They don't and won't get it because they don't want to. When the framers of the Constitution put in to keep state and church separate they meant to keep the government out of the church. But all non believers like to say that it is to keep church out of government. They came from countries that had been ruled by monarchs that  ran their Church's before. This was something that was very precious to them. Otherwise they would not of been so prevalent with Gods name and prayer in their dealings. They wanted the freedom to express their beliefs without being tortured, jailed or killed. They made their wished known, it has just been subverted through out time.

Your post illustrates your absolute and profound ignorance of the intent of the Constitution's language on religion.  If you want to live in a thocracy, move to Iran (and good riddance).

[Henry Hawk]

I'm in good company...I'll take the Boy Scouts of America....and what they stand for.....and It's a shame, that the military cannot show public support for this FANTASTIC organization, because some lawyers is claiming it against the Constitution...

I think our forefathers would be proud to support the BOA....did you read any of my posts PH?

[Exterminator]

Tell me where you went to school because whomever taught you history needs to be jailed! Are you dyslexic or something, because you've got it totally wrong!

Yep.   

[Palehorse]

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I think this is a valid point to bring up that is being igored....



THIS IS CONGRESS SPONSERING RELIGIOUS BELIEFS...

Let me ask you this...

Why did the Continental Congress in 1782, give money to the mass printing and distribution of the Bible...

In September 1789, the House of Representatives authorized the first official Thanksgiving. The resolution they passed called for "a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God....

in 1802, Congress framed an "enabling act" which required that Ohio form its state government in a manner "not repugnant to the Northwest Ordinance." As a result, Ohio's constitution declared:

Religion, morality, and knowledge, being essentially necessary to the good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of instruction shall forever be encouraged by legislative provision.

in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

1795 during construction of the Capitol, a practice was instituted whereby `public worship is now regularly administered at the Capitol, every Sunday morning, at 11 o'clock'...

in 1800, Congress enacted naval regulations requiring that Divine service be performed twice every day aboard `all ships and vessels in the navy,' with a sermon preached each Sunday...

the bottom line is...did our forefathers not understand...or does the ACLU just understand it better than the guys who WROTE the Constitution? 

It isn't being ignored, but what is being convieniently ignored are the mistakes of a young nation. So in your mind this country got it right , right out of the gate? Nothing could be further from the truth. Had we done so that stuff would never have happened.

Why did they do these things? Because the nation was young, it was growing, and it was (is ) learning. Mistakes are made, but the key is to learn from these mistakes and move forward. Individuals do it, groups do it, nations do it.

The fact is we're still trying to get it right and organizations like the ACLU are the watchdogs ensuring we do so, and remain faithful to the intentions of our foundational documents.

[Exterminator]

Only due to the cases wherein this support has engaged them with your chosen religion have you now changed direction.

Do you not see a pattern?

[Henry Hawk]

It isn't being ignored, but what is being convieniently ignored are the mistakes of a young nation. So in your mind this country got it right , right out of the gate? Nothing could be further from the truth. Had we done so that stuff would never have happened.

Why did they do these things? Because the nation was young, it was growing, and it was (is ) learning. Mistakes are made, but the key is to learn from these mistakes and move forward. Individuals do it, groups do it, nations do it.

The fact is we're still trying to get it right and organizations like the ACLU are the watchdogs ensuring we do so, and remain faithful to the intentions of our foundational documents.

so our forefathers just got it wrong?....when THEY endorsed many, many religous beliefs?....I clearly believe, these guys had NO intention of what is going on today, with God being TRASHED the way He is...like it or not guys...and this IS a fact.....our forefathers revered the Bible and God..

I'm not saying at all...that this country was designed to be Christian Nation....but it WAS designed by a Nation of Christians...or at the least men who valued the Bible and their Creator...

I think, a few of you need to look in the mirror before they chastise others...

[Palehorse]

Do you not see a pattern?

I do. I've had some historic successes in getting Henry to see things like this. . . Only thing keeping me trying to be honest about it. But once he makes statements like "nothing is going to sway me on this" I can pretty much throw in the towel. . . which I am now doing. . .