Nazi brown shirts again?

[Bo D]

I believe that this is what the thread was about. Hey Ex start your own thread on God and whenever anyone wants to spout off about it they can go there.

And I thought we exposed that article for the lie that it is by posting a link to the actual bill.

[mcgonser]

Oh, so that was not the original topic. I believe that there is some discussion left on this thread myself.

[me]

And I thought we exposed that article for the lie that it is by posting a link to the actual bill.

The actual bill didn't say anything about the government taking over the banks and auto industry either but they're doing it. 

[mcgonser]

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp111:FLD010:@1(hr037)
It also did not give President Obama the right to go to a world currency or world financial board either.

[me]

I would say the way things are turning it would be a good idea to start listening to some of these "opinions" rather than jus poo pooing them and saying "but it don't say anything about that in the original bill"..

[Palehorse]

Since some of that cash is mine, I'll just say I sure feel a lot better with someone other than the fox watching the hen house!

[Exterminator]

I believe that this is what the thread was about. Hey Ex start your own thread on God and whenever anyone wants to spout off about it they can go there.

In what world do you think I would ever take orders from you?

[mcgonser]

Nor do you take friendly suggestions either. Get a sense of humor 

[Exterminator]

Nor do you take friendly suggestions either. Get a sense of humor 

I have a great sense of humor; I laugh at people like you all of the time.   

[mcgonser]

[dan foster]

1 Corinthians 7:20-24

20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.

Galatians 5

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage

Neither of your passages support liberty and freedom as defined by our Constitution.  You can't even begin to stretch that long enough to think it fits....oops, yes you can.   You already do that by being a christian.  Sorry, I almost forgot that we could base these conversations on logic and true understanding.  There is no way to do that with those who alter reality at the drop of a hat.

[Locutus]

Hey Ex start your own thread on God and whenever anyone wants to spout off about it they can go there.

Actually, I did that once upon a time.    You can click this link and read it:

God Sucks!

[dan foster]

Way to go Henry. Good Point 

Not even close.

On Jefferson:

Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers, 2:545

Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Peter Carr, 10 Aug. 1787. (original capitalization of the word god is retained per original)

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp July 30, 1816, denouncing the doctrine of the Trinity and suggesting it to be so riddled in falsehood that only an authoritarian figure could decipher its meaning and, with a firm grip on people's spiritual and mental freedoms, thus convince the people of its truthfulness

To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise ... without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823, quoted from James A Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)
For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement of England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law ... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it ... That system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still used today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.

But every state, says an inquisitor, has established some religion. No two, say I, have established the same. Is this a proof of the infallibility of establishments?
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Jeremiah Moor, 1800

I am for freedom of religion, and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendency of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Elbridge Gerry, 1799. ME 10:78

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers, 1:545

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813 (see Positive Atheism's Historical section)

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purposes.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio G Spafford, March 17, 1814

Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Peter Carr, 10 Aug. 1787. (original capitalization of the word god is retained per original)

[mcgonser]

Dan: Your reality and my reality might be different in some ways. But it is the height of arrogance and ignorance to think that yours is the only one that is right. Logic is considering all sides and them coming to the most logical solution. It does not matter what anyone says or proves about God or Jesus, you will always be your usual critical and one sided with blinders self. That is your mission, so be it. I find it amusing that the ones who do not believe in God are the most hateful and defensive side. I in return am finding this constant need of yours to get attention by being this lost person a little boring. I have nothing to prove to you about what I believe. It is obvious that you are offended by this. Even though you don't give me the same right. You attack anyone who says or thinks different than you. OK

[dan foster]

Dan: Your reality and my reality might be different in some ways. But it is the height of arrogance and ignorance to think that yours is the only one that is right. Logic is considering all sides and them coming to the most logical solution. It does not matter what anyone says or proves about God or Jesus, you will always be your usual critical and one sided with blinders self. That is your mission, so be it. I find it amusing that the ones who do not believe in God are the most hateful and defensive side. I in return am finding this constant need of yours to get attention by being this lost person a little boring. I have nothing to prove to you about what I believe. It is obvious that you are offended by this. Even though you don't give me the same right. You attack anyone who says or thinks different than you. OK

Well, hey there chief, I don't have to agree with you to be right.  And, as for "Logic is considering all sides and them coming to the most logical solution."  I already did that and I think my final treatment of this subject IS the most logical solution (you don't have to agree with me on that, try taking the expert's word for it at: www.deconversion.com). 

I was a christian for the first 20 years of my life, so don't tell me my arguments are one sided (unless you were just pointing out you don't have a leg to stand on and can't defend your "logic"). 

Now, not agreeing with you, as it is with most christians, IS offensive to you.  My not believing is offensive to you.  But, please point out where I was truly hateful, or disprove anything I have said.  Your "you're just hateful and don't understand" defense doesn't really work very well.