Nazi brown shirts again?

[dan foster]

OMG!!! Dan... that is an extremely offensive thing to say!!! What goes on in that sick head of yours?  I don't care if you believe in God or you don't, you don't joke about children being molested. My God Dan... I'm really shocked by this. 

Yes, the bible is full of vile, hateful stuff.  You would know if you read it.

[dan foster]

He said just as written in the bible, I was just pointing out it is in the Koran.

No, I didn't say as written in the bible.  As is known, you (if you are christian) worship the same god as the jews and the muslims.  That is all I said.  Do you still dispute that?

[dan foster]

Dan, you claim you were a christian and now aren't, that you read the bible. The Bible has to be studied and prayed over and talked over with other christians. There is a lot in it and it takes a long time to get it. I believe myself that it is really simple. God loves us, sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins, If we accept this love and his sons sacrifice we will one day be in heaven with them. I don't have time to tell my testimony here but we all have one. It is not an easy life to be a christian but the main thing I get is that he wants us to treat each other with respect, tolerance and love. To honor and respect him and be thankful for all he gives us. He does not want war, povetry, suffering or illness for us. If you really look at it, all those things are the product of our own doing. Our sinful and willful part. We can stop all these thinkgs ourselves but don't. Why? I will pray for you and hope you find the peace and love of the one true God. He loves you even if you don't love him, unconditionally. WOW

Yeah, right.  OK, let's try one more you won't answer, either; why did the creator of the universe need to nail a guy to a cross so that you could believe and go to eternity, with him?  That doesn't sound just bizarre to you?

[mcgonser]

I believe it was the roman soldiers who nailed Jesus to the cross??? As to the fact that I worship the same god as the Muslins, I don't really know who they are worshiping so I can't tell you. I will leave that up to God.

[dan foster]

I believe it was the roman soldiers who nailed Jesus to the cross??? As to the fact that I worship the same god as the Muslins, I don't really know who they are worshiping so I can't tell you. I will leave that up to God.

Not much of an answer, but they were certainly doing god's will.  Do you think they were punished for that?  After all, if jesus hadn't died, you wouldn't have everlasting life.  So, you should thank the roman soldiers, right?

However, you didn't answer the question; why did they nail "him" up?

[mcgonser]

I have no animosity against the Roman soldiers, yes they were doing their job. I was pointing out that Humans killed Jesus.
The reason I won't say much about the muslim faith is that I really don't know much about it. I don't make opinions on religions I don't know. I also have no animosity against them either.

[dan foster]

I have no animosity against the Roman soldiers, yes they were doing their job. I was pointing out that Humans killed Jesus.
The reason I won't say much about the muslim faith is that I really don't know much about it. I don't make opinions on religions I don't know. I also have no animosity against them either.

Fair enough.  This discussion all sprang from hank's claim that the god of abraham is the god of America.  I just pointed out to him that he left mohammed off his list of prophets under that god.  There ISN'T a god of America.  This is a secular state and it is silly to claim this god or that god is our foundation.  Stupid, anti-American and un-Constitutional just for starters.

[mcgonser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYEFkYtANVg
I hope you will listen to this, it pretty much says what I have been trying too all along. That Paul Harvey is sure good for me, he will be missed.

[dan foster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYEFkYtANVg
I hope you will listen to this, it pretty much says what I have been trying too all along. That Paul Harvey is sure good for me, he will be missed.

Sorry, but religion is religion, especially if there is a deity involved.  You can B'hai faith it and reject all religions as man-made, but the belief in a deity just takes you back to square one.  Paul Harvey's pushing god isn't any different than Joel Osteen's.  Again, just "which" god is Harvey pushing?

I like the MSNBC Worst Persons segment in the same Youtube group.  It is more meaningful and speaks volumes about Harvey and his ilk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIyaRUHtM5Q&feature=related

[Henry Hawk]

Fair enough.  This discussion all sprang from hank's claim that the god of abraham is the god of America.  I just pointed out to him that he left mohammed off his list of prophets under that god.  There ISN'T a god of America.  This is a secular state and it is silly to claim this god or that god is our foundation.  Stupid, anti-American and un-Constitutional just for starters.

Dan, we have been down this road before,  I only stated that it was MY belief...and It is and always will be, based upon History and it's writtings, that our forefathers believed in God, the God of Abraham....and the vast majority of them believed inthe Holy Bible...and it WAS the moral compass that they used to design our constitution....I never, ever stated that we ARE a Christian Nation nor does our constitution declare that....I AM stating, my opinion, that our forefathers never dreamed of a day that God would be as disrespected as He is today, and that would propbably not set well with them....just MY opinion.

[Exterminator]

...based upon History and it's writtings, that our forefathers believed in God, the God of Abraham....and the vast majority of them believed inthe Holy Bible...

If that's true, then I'm sure you can provide us with a list of those in that vast majority.  Please do so.

[Henry Hawk]

If that's true, then I'm sure you can provide us with a list of those in that vast majority.  Please do so.

Okay, here..
"Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian." - United States Supreme Court, 1892.

While making certain not to endorse any denomination of religion over another, the founders of this nation made it emphatically clear that the principles upon which this Nation was built are based squarely upon the Bible.

Virtually every one of the 55 writers and signers of the United States Constitution were members of various Christian denominations: 29 were Anglicans, 16 to 18 were Calvinists, 2 were Methodists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Roman Catholic, 1 lapsed Quaker and sometimes Anglican, and 1 open deist--Dr. Franklin who attended every kind of Christian worship, called for public prayer, and contributed to all denominations.

George Mason is called the father of the Bill of Rights, for he insisted that the first ten amendments be added to the Constitution. The purpose for such an addition? "The laws of nature are the laws of God, whose authority can be superseded by no power on earth," Mason said.

James McHenry was a member of the Continental Congress, a state legislator, a soldier, and a signer of the Constitution...as well as the president of the first Bible Society in Baltimore. McHenry stated:

Neither...let it be overlooked, that public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures.

The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability, and usefulness.

Charles Cotesworth Pinckney also signed the Constitution, and served as a delegate to the national Constitutional Convention and an author of the Constitution of South Caroline. Pinckney was a statesman, soldier, planter, a brigadier general and a candidate for President and Vice-President. Like the rest of the signers of the Constitution, he too recognized the Sovereignty of God:

"Blasphemy against the Almighty is denying his being or providence, or uttering contumelious reproaches on our Saviour Christ. It is punished, at common law by fine and imprisonment, for Christianity is part of the laws of the land."

[mcgonser]

Very Well Put Henry:    

[Exterminator]

Despite your constant need to attempt to validate your religious beliefs by trying to illustrate how many others may believe the same thing, affiliation with a specific religion does not imply belief in either a god or the bible.  I, for example, was raised as a Catholic.

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

[mcgonser]

The Treaty of Tripoli usually refers to the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripoli, otherwise known in English as the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary. The treaty was signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796 and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797, finally receiving ratification from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.

Soon after the formation of the United States, privateering in the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean from the nations of the Barbary Coast prompted the U.S. to form a series of so-called "peace treaties", collectively known as the Barbary Treaties. Individual treaties were negotiated with Morocco (1786), Algeria (1795), Tripoli (1797) and Tunis (1797), all of them more than once.

The United States consul-general to the Barbary states of Algiers, Tripoli and Tunis was Joel Barlow, who dealt with the text of various treaties (including the Treaty of Tripoli) and supported U.S. diplomatic efforts in the Barbary Coast. Commissioner Plenipotentiary of the United States, David Humphreys, was given the right to establish a treaty with Tripoli and assigned Joel Barlow and Joseph Donaldson to broker it. It was Joel Barlow who certified the signatures on the Arabic original and the English copy provided to him. Later, Captain Richard O'Brien established the original transport of the negotiated goods along with the Treaty, but it was the American Consul James Leander Cathcart who delivered the final requirements of payment for the treaty. The treaty was broken in 1801 by the Pasha of Tripoli over President Thomas Jefferson's refusal to pay the Pasha's demands for increased payments. The Treaty was renegotiated in 1805 after the First Barbary War.

The first treaty is cited as historical evidence in the contemporary controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government. Article 11 of the first treaty has been interpreted as an official denial of a Christian basis for the U.S. government.

Uh, Treaty, Amendment, Uh whats the difference Ex???? We were telling them we come in peace to trade not over take you. You are really over reaching here Ex